The Reds and Royals are discussing a trade that would send second baseman Jonathan India to Kansas City in exchange for right-hander Brady Singer, according to a report from C. Trent Rosencrans and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. Rosenthal adds that a deal between the sides is not considered close and that India is one of “several” hitters the Royals are looking at as they consider dealing from their rotation depth.
India, 28 next month, is coming off something of a rebound campaign in 2024. After averaging just 111 games per season in each of the past two years with below average offensive numbers while dealing with hamstring issues and a bout of plantar fasciitis in his left foot, he posted his best season since winning the 2021 NL Rookie of the Year award this past year. In 637 trips to the plate across 151 games this year, India slashed a respectable .248/.357/.392 (108 wRC+) while slugging 15 homers and stealing 13 bases. He also struck out just 19.6% of the time while walking at a 12.6% clip, making him one of just three players (alongside Freddie Freeman and Juan Soto) to strike out in less than 20% of his plate appearances with a walk rate of at least 12%.
That impressive discipline at the plate makes India a valuable asset even as his power and speed numbers fall short of 20/20 potential. Just five qualified second basemen posted better offensive seasons by measure of wRC+ than India did last year, and his 2.8 fWAR ranks seventh at the position. On the surface, losing that production would seem to be debilitating for a Reds offense that was bottom-five in baseball by measure of wRC+ in 2024. With that being said, it’s worth noting that India appeared likely to enter 2024 without a clear position to call home until 2023 Rookie of the Year finalist Matt McLain missed the entire 2024 campaign due to shoulder surgery and top prospect Noelvi Marte missed the first half of the season due to an 80-game PED suspension.
Marte struggled badly (31% strikeout rate, 46 wRC+) in 66 games with the Reds this year after returning from his suspension, but McLain proved to be a dynamic offensive force for the club in his 89-game rookie campaign back in 2023. Then just 23 years old, the youngster slashed an excellent .290/.357/.507 (127 wRC+) with 16 homers and 14 steals in just 403 plate appearances. If he can produce anything close to that level of offensive firepower over a full season in 2025, that would more than make up for the loss of India’s bat from the lineup. It’s possible the club could find a way to keep both second basemen in the lineup—McLain has gotten a handful of reps at third base and in center field during his recent stint in Arizona Fall League— but with TJ Friedl just one season removed from a 3.9-win campaign in center and the Reds unlikely to give up on Marte after less than half a season in the majors, it could make sense for the club to cash in on India now.
One sensible way for the club to do that would be targeting a quality rotation arm like Singer. Both Singer and India are under control through the end of the 2026 season, making the swap a fairly clean one from a team control perspective. India is guaranteed a $5MM salary for 2025 and is arbitration eligible for 2026, while MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects Singer for an $8.8MM salary in his penultimate trip through arbitration this winter. That slight net increase in salary commitment likely wouldn’t be a problem for a Reds club that plans to run a payroll “at or above” 2024 levels next year, giving them some breathing room financially for next season.
In Singer, the Reds would receive a quality mid-rotation arm to pair with Andrew Abbott and Nick Lodolo behind staff ace Hunter Greene. The 28-year-old righty pitched to a solid 3.71 ERA (114 ERA+) with a 3.94 FIP in 179 2/3 innings of work across 32 starts last year. That’s a major step forward from a disastrous 2023 season that saw him post a 5.52 ERA in 159 2/3 frames, but not quite at the level of his 153 1/3 innings of 3.23 ERA ball the year prior. Overall, Singer has pitched to a 4.15 ERA (103 ERA+) with a 3.94 FIP over the last three seasons, which sets up a solid floor for the right-hander looking forward even if he doesn’t return to the level of production he flashed in 2022.
With Seth Lugo, Cole Ragans, and Michael Wacha all locked into the club’s rotation for 2025, it makes plenty of sense for the Royals to explore trades from their crop of back-end arms that includes not only Singer but also Kyle Wright, Alec Marsh, and Kris Bubic. Those latter two names have already found themselves in the rumor mill this winter, and Rosenthal’s report confirms the Royals are still “entertaining” the possibility of moving either Marsh or Bubic instead of Singer, though he adds that Lugo, Ragans, and Wacha are all understood to be “essentially off-limits.” With that being said, he notes that teams interested in contending immediately prefer Singer to both Marsh and Bubic and the Royals would likely have to settle for a younger, less established hitter if they were to deal either of their lesser arms.
Bringing India would be a somewhat complicated fit for the Royals, however, as it would likely displace incumbent second baseman Michael Massey. Massey enjoyed the best season of his career in 2024, slashing .259/.294/.449 with 14 homers and a 102 wRC+ in 356 trips to the plate while playing around back issues early in the season. Both Massey and India have played second base almost exclusively in their careers to this point, though Massey has one appearance at the hot corner and the Reds toyed with the idea of playing India at first base or in left field last year before losing McLain for the season. It’s certainly feasible to imagine the Royals finding appropriate playing time for both players by utilizing the DH on days where Salvador Perez is catching, especially if India can also mix into the outfield on occasion.
Marte and India for Singer and a throw in prospect.
still just 22 yrs old, i think cincy wants to give noelvi a chance to redeem himself before losing all hope
but he probly isnt gonna perform well now that he’s off PEDs
Aerosmith wrote a song for your trade in the 70’s. Dream on.
I wouldn’t offer JUST India for Singer if I were the Reds. Moving from KC to Cincy is just about as extreme a pitcher-friendly to hitter-friendly transition as you can make. Singer’s velo has declined every year in the majors, is down to below MLB average now, he had an xERA of almost 5 last year, and already has a bit of an HR problem even in KC. It’s an OK deal one for one since India’s just OK too, but no way I throw in Marte, one of the best prospects in baseball a year ago.
Of course the reds would accept singer if KC accepts India but I do think singer is worth more than India
India is very overrated. At best, an average 2B.
He hits more like an average C though
While i feel like Singer for India straight up is an overpay for the Royals given Singer’s relative durability compared to India’s lack thereof, there is no way the Reds part with Marte in the same trade.
In a perfect world the Reds Infield after trading India would have Marte at 3B, Elly De La Cruz at SS, McClain at 2B and Candelario/Encarnacion-Strand at 1B with the other DH.
They aren’t going into 2025 with Marte as a starter. He hasn’t earned that.
Black pink
He hasn’t earned it. He will be the starter if he looks ok in ST. Candy and Steer are better options IMHO.
I don’t think he’s going to start for them. He got popped for steroid and came back and sucked. This guy might be a complete nobody now.
Unless the Reds add a pair of Outfielders Steer will likely be back in LF next season
It’s OK. If Marte continues his struggles it would come down to Candy/Encarnacion at 1B/3B
I wonder why marte was great and then all of the sudden cratered after no juice
I wonder why…
At least Fernando Tatis is still good (not 2021 40 Homer good but close to 30) after no boosters
Cincy’s top position player prospects are all infielders – Arroyo, Stewart, Collier. Between those 3 plus Marte at least one of them should force their way into the mix with McLain and EDLC at 2B/SS/3B, at least by the end of the season. Until then they’ve still got Espinal, Candelario and CES, plus IF/OF Steer.
Would much rather have Singer than India.
Not sure I like this swap from KC’s angle.
Yeah, I’m not sure there are many second basemen worth a workhorse starter.
It all depends on a teams needs. Apparently Royals must think they need an upgrade at 2b. India is a workhorse 2B and a good clubhouse presence. Reds were so grateful that they had him last year. He had a good year and played 2B full time as Matt Mclain was out all year. You would get a player that plays ever day as opposed to a pitcher who pitches every five days so there is value in that. This pitcher is a #4 so IMO it’s not too bad of a swap. Baseball trade values says it’s just a slight overpay by the Royals. Anyway fun speculating. Have a good one.
Everyone is a “good clubhouse presence.” Like, almost literally.
Hardly
“Who said that!?!” Milton Bradley
You know most trades aren’t 1 for 1, right? The Royals need IF help, bullpen help, and OF help. I’m sure they’d address other areas in any deal too.
If you saw the Reds OF last season then you know no help is coming from them on that front. I do wonder if the Royals are considering moving India back to 3B with Massey at 2B and either trading Maikel Garcia or using him as a utility player
I’m bummed the mariners didn’t get India but I am confused on why is KC breaking up their big 3 above average starters
M’s fan: They wouldn’t be. Lugo, Ragans, and Wacha are their big 3.
Probably because they are eyeing an arm – like Flaherty or Severino.
Not sure I get this for either team, but ok.
I agree with you ! I thought it was not enough for India but after reading comments it just really doesn’t make sense for either side. Reds need to add offense, not give up one of their more productive guys for a player that fits the mold of several of their current pitchers
Reds have too many hitters not enough pitching
Royals have too many pitchers not enough hitters
They line up pretty well but seems like they’re aiming for the worst possible outcome on this one
Who said the royals had too much pitching? They don’t have the best starting rotation and they have a worrisome bullpen
I can see why the royals want to trade for India since now that means that they don’t have to start maikel Garcia every day in the infield
Who said royals have too many starters? This very article and people with eyes.
Ragans, Lugo, Wacha, Bubic, Singer, Marsh, plus options in the minors in Noah Cameron and guys like Kurdna, Champlain, and Zobac hitting AAA but could be up soon as this year.
The “best rotation” doesn’t win the World Series every year not sure why that should be the goal and pen can be fixed with free agent signings not trades. Relievers would be a lot cheaper than paying free agents to improve the offense. Hence why royals are looking at trading a starter or two for offense under control via arb.
The obvious issue against the Yankees in the playoffs was offense for the royals not pitching
They lost 6-5
They won 4-2
Lost 3-2
Lost 3-1
Pitching was hardly the issue at the most important junction in their season. Offense was.
The Dodgers have entered the chat. There is no such thing as a surplus of starting pitching.
Were dodgers unaware of their own players injury history?
Cause rest of us with a functioning memory better than a goldfish knew Glasnow Buehler May and many of their pitchers and prospects have had injury issues in their careers. Suddenly it’s a shocker when a guy who has injury history is injured.
But yes. If you’re relying on guys with lengthy injury history to give you a full season worth of production yeah you probably don’t have a surplus of pitching.
Dodgers routinely take chances on high upside arms that come with injury concerns both draft and trades and free agency.
Tell us again which of the Royals starters had made 32-33 starts, in other words pitched a full season, before 2024.
None of them you say.
Why was that?
Injuries for 3 of them including Singer who suffered a left lower lumbar strain and was shut down for the last 4 starts of the 2023 season.
Then there was the shoulder injury that cost Singer 6 starts in 2021 and kept him from making a start in 2022 until mid-May.
The Royals took chances on high upside arms that come with injury concerns and it paid off in 2024. that doesn’t mean their luck will hold out. That is why there is no such thing as too much starting pitching.
1990 called. They said they wanted their outdated statistic back.
You know how many pitchers pitched 32-33 games this year? 23
The “workhorse” ace is a thing of the past. Get with the times old man.
In an era where
Bull pen days exists
“Opener” exists
Limiting innings for young pitchers or guys coming off injury
Skipping guys turns in the rotation due to not enough rest days or weird schedule alignments
“Spot starts”
Double header extra man
Why you’re using an outdated statistic like 32-33 games is archaic to judge “surplus” of starting pitching especially when I mentioned a plethora arms in the minors that will at some point see action this year for a reason other than injury occurred.
The team with the best 2024 rotation did not even make the playoffs…
But do the royals have too much? Are bubic and marsh above average or going to be above average starters? Are they expendable?
162 games divided by “5” guys is 32.4 starts
Royals have about 10 options currently between majors and minors that could start a game. Define that how you will.
They also probably have a long relief option or two between majors and minors who is a multiple inning guy that can go 2-3 innings if necessary. He could “start” a game
There’s options these days to make sure a slot in a rotation gets the 32 “starts”.
Now would i deal 1 starter? Sure. You have guys in the minors waiting. Would I deal 3 or 4 starters in a deal and deplete your starting pitching depth like Yankees did in the Soto deal trading 4 starters? No I would not.
“Dodgers routinely take chances on high upside arms that come with injury concerns both draft and trades and free agency”.
Yup they sure do. That’s what having tons of money can do for you. It can cover up any mistakes or bad luck.
Baseball is broken and has been for a long time.
Soto is an outlier, the Yankees HAD to make that trade
You missed the point entirely Sputnik
You can deal 1 starter if you have a lot of options
You shouldn’t deal 3-4 arms if you have a surplus
Yankees could have dealt other Dominguez or Jones and opted to keep King and Thorpe.
Dealing King Vasquez Brito Thorpe was a choice they made to get Soto and it was a bad decision that cost them pitching depth.
That is stupid. Consistently stupid means you are not worth even seeing.
The Royals have 6 pitchers on their roster currently that started at least one game in 2024. They started 152 games.
3 of their starters had 32-33 starts. Apparently the Royals believe in starters taking the ball every 5th game.
They have ONE starting pitcher in the minors that potentially could make MLB starts in 2025, Noah Cameron. They don’t have guys in the minors waiting.
@My how The Royals were extremely lucky health wise with rotation last season, all starters made at least 26 starts. Two of them made 33 and one made 32, that’s almost unheard of in today’s MLB. For KC to bank on that for 2025 would be asinine.
Today’s game losing at least one SP to TJS has become almost a right of passage. On top of that there is all the minor injuries that are common place. A pitcher developing a blister can render them very ineffective and can and usually does result in missing 1-2 starts. KC probably needs to prepare for needing at least and extra 15-20 starts outside of top 5 and that’s on the low end, teams probably should b looking at 20-25 starts coming from outside top 5.
They’d be better off dealing Singer for Cronenworth plus a bullpen arm, with the Pads kicking in some cash.
Not sure the Padres would do that.
Blue Barron: As a salary dump while picking up a solid #4/5 starter? I think AJ would do that in a heartbeat.
Why would the Padres want to trade Cronenworth as a salary dump? He provided 2 WAR in 2024, worth about $18 million on the FA market, and made a $7.285 million salary. His salary going forward is only $11 and $12 million per season. Still a good deal for the Padres. Moving back to 2B makes him more valuable in 2025.
The Padres are in bad fiscal shape and locked into long-term contracts. They absolutely have been looking to move any contract.
Nobody wants Cronenworth. His contract is easy underwater. Padres would have to pay most of it
I wouldn’t put it past Jerry Dipoto to swing a trade for him and then spin it so much that the bulk of the fanbase is convinced he’s an actual upgrade.
Which Mariner starter would be the best 1 for 1 match for India, or which Mariner SP is most likely to be moved?
Emerson Hancock – rest are all miles above India’s value.
I have said it in previous post here. Yes you may be right about value for player A for player B in a vacuum. However trades are more than that. It’s about team need and what is out there to fix that need. If Mariners really need a 2B and India is the best one that could be reasonably obtained and if Mariners have some pitching to spare they might overpay for India with a said pitcher.
Why not if Padres take some salary? Cronenworth is a much more impactful player than India.
He makes 11.5 million/yr, is a two time all star, stays healthy, and can realistically start at any IF position..Plus he’s signed for 7 years. The people saying his salary is underwater have no clue what they’re talking about.
Royals aren’t taking on a player with that salary, period. Not now.
Did you miss the part where I said the Padres kick in some cash?
Serious question btw..what do you think an 11m salary in 3-4 years would be equivalent to in today’s dollars?
“Underwater”
No, cronenworth is actually paid the going rate for a super utility player at around 10-11 mill a year. You actually look at recent comps
Kike Hernandez with Boston
Marwin Gonzalez with Twins
Chris Taylor with Dodgers
Ben Zobrist with Cubs
Martin Prado with Marlins
They all made roughly 10-11 mill as guys with average or better offense that can play multiple positions
Padres issue is they play him solely at 1st instead of 2nd which drives down a lot of his value and WAR
“Cronenworth contract is under water!” Yeah cause he’s played at the wrong position
If padres put him at 2nd and he generated 3-4 war based on defense and hitting for league average you’d view the contract differently
Tables-He played a lot of 2nd last year after the Arraez trade and Solano signing.
And Cronenworth should play 2B there this year with Bogaerts at SS.
They should sign a 1B/DH/OF type like Joc Pederson or sign a 1B/DH type like Turner and let Arraez DH.
Padres need more offense from the 1B or DH position.
Arraez DH/1B L
Tatis Jr RF R
Manny 3B R
Profar is they bring him back S
Merrill CF L
1B/DH
Bogaerts SS R
Cronenworth 2B L
Campusano R
I didn’t think that was the case so I looked it up. Cronenworth made 80 starts at 1B and 66 at 2B in 2024. In 2023 it was a little more lopsided to 1B with 84 starts there and 30 at 2B.
Ben Zobrist hasn’t played for 5 years.
Reading isn’t your strong suit huh cause I mentioned other names as well like
kike Hernandez getting 10 mill from Boston for 2023
Marwin Gonzalez getting 10.5 mill each year for 2020-2021
Chris Taylor got 15 a year back in 2022
My how, I don’t mute many people, but you earned it. Being pretentious, uninformed, and a moron is not a good combination and you pulled it off. Have you thought of seeing a good mental health professional or getting back on your meds? .
Wrong. Cronenworth produced 2.0 WAR in 2024 worth $18 million on the FA market for just $7 million in salary. That was the 1st year of his contract.
I don’t get the hate for Cronenworth. He’s being paid what he’s worth. He’s not a star but he’s not being paid like a star.
We would love to have him in Anaheim. 2.0 WAR would be a massive upgrade for us. The 4 players that held down 2B for us had a negative WAR between them in 2024.
Why would the Padres kick in money. Cronenworth has been more valuable over the last few years. That while playing a third of his time at 1B. As a 2B its not close.
If i’m KC i’d hang onto singer. reds brought up india immediately in 2021 without waiting so he only has 2 yrs left before FA
he showed alotta potential during that rookie yr, wheels fell off a little since then
Injuries do that. He bounced back nicely though and is only 28. I like him better than Gleyber, who is certainly going to cost more money as a free agent.
The Royals should be able to find a better trade option.
Same for the Reds. Singer had an average year in a pitcher friendly ballpark. He wouldn’t fare nearly as well at GABP. As I Reds fan, I hope they pass.
and as a Roy Royals fan, I hope they don’t do this because Michael Massey is really good at second base or at least better than some players
Since Nick Martinez has accepted the Red’s QO it’s likely we will both get our wish and this terrible trade never materializes.
Mid teams doing mid team things, trading mid players back and forth.
If making the playoffs and winning a series makes you mid sure.
He most definitely has 20 20 potential, he’s already hit 20 homers in a season and he stole 14 bases in 120 games.
He’ll steal 20 bags in KC because they’ll run him a whole lot more. I don’t know if he’ll hit 20 HRs in Kauffman though. GABP will give you a power boost.
He’s eclipsed 20 HRs once in 2019. All power #s from that year are inflated due to juiced ball. Not that he was that far off last season and one other that he had 17 HRs. When any player has done something only once and that once came in 2019 it should b noted, that is how significantly skewed the #s for 2019 were across MLB.
@Tigers – Jonathan India hit 21 HRs during his rookie season in 2021. He was drafted in 2018 and was in the low minors in 2019.
He was a rookie in 2021, so unsure what 2019 has to do with this. And he hit 17 homers in 119 games, so he most definitely has 20 homer potential over a full season
I stand corrected, for whatever reason thought he was a rookie in 2019
Honestly I’d prefer Singer, but it could be a win for both sides honestly.
I’m a Tiger fan. I’d much rather face an India/Royals team than a Singer/Royals team.
Unless the Reds are kicking in a serious prospect then this deal sucks for the Royals.
Reds could include a back end starter.
I’m sure you would like them to give away more players.
A back end starter? Singer is a #4. Why would the Reds trade a productive everyday 2B and a #5 for just a #4? Anyway rumors rarely happen exactly as written so probably not going to happen anyway. Have a good day.
Plus, Singer is coming from a pitching friendly ballpark to GABP. I would avoid this deal like the plague if I were the Reds.
Who is the Reds current number 4 starter if Martinez declines the qualifying offer
He’s worse than Singer that’s for darn sure. Singer would be the Reds number 3 at least.
The Reds have starter depth they just don’t have top end guys short of Greene and maybe Lowder. Singer would be a solid number 3 on the Reds not a 4.
Rhett Lowder had a pretty impressive cup of coffee with the Reds at the end of last season and should factor into the picture
Hunter Greene, Andrew Abbott, Nick Martinez (he is accepting the QO), Rhett Lowder are the Reds top four. They will use Nick Lodolo and Graham Ashcraft in the fifth spot until Chase Burns is ready mid-season. The Reds don’t need Singer. He was likely just a back up plan had Martinez elected FA. The Reds don’t need Singer now. Martinez has proven he can pitch at GABP. Singer likely wouldn’t have fared well in that ball bark.
Yeah with Martinez accepting the QO, I’m not sure where Singer would fit in. Maybe he could be the Reds fifth Starter, but hopefully, Chase Burns will be in that spot in the second half of 2025. I have Greene, Abbott, Martinez and Lowder all ahead of Singer.
It doesn’t. Look deeper. Singer’s on the way down. He was VERY lucky and helped a lot by Kaufman Stadium last year.
#3/4 starters go for $12-15MM for multiple years in free agency and Singer costs about half. Royals did a great job with their pitchers though.
Maybe they feel Bubic and Lynch can do what Singer does.
Baseball trade.
Yes. Please get that Pita out of the NL Central.
India is the most disciplined hitter on the reds, I’d like to see him stay.
lousy trade from KC end
Yep, the headline should read “Reds, Royals Discussing a Brady Singer trade”
Reds should include a back end starter like Ashcraft and that would probably be fair.
Yeah, no chance of that happening. Ashcraft is Singer pitching in GABP.
Then who is India? It works both ways champ.
It would be no body. The Reds shouldn’t consider the deal straight up, let alone sweeting the pot.
India isn’t any good i thought we just established that. So why not trade him?
Singer would a major overpay for India. Not to mention that Massey, when he got a chance to play, was a better second baseman last year than India: 1.6 bWAR for Massey in 356 plate appearances vs. 1.7 bWAR for India in 637 PAs. Baseball Reference thinks India hasn’t done much since his rookie year except complain about trade rumors.
I’ll admit that Fangraphs is kinder to India in 2024. As usual, it’s a different defensive evaluation. Not that they thought India had a great year.
Rosenthal may just be pulling this latest rumor out of his rear. But it looks like a bad idea for the Royals.
I think India is better than Massey but they really wouldn’t fit too well on the same team. Perhaps Massey goes back to Cincinnati with the Royals getting Abbott back. 2 for 2 deal.
Moving abbot would be a mistake
What a joke
Reds are trying to trade India because they already have a 2B and as far as I can tell would make no sense to get a 2B back.
Who is the Reds 2b the shortstop who missed all last year?
Major overpay? I respectfully disagree. Singer a #4 starter, was 9-13 on a very good Royals team. He has had one winning season since he started in the bigs in 2020. At any rate baseball trade values puts it as a minor overpay. Oh yea and as far as I know Rosenthal is a stand up guy and not the kind of reporter that pulls rumors out of his rear.
Brady Singer SP 19.4
Jonathan India 2B 16.4
Minor Overpay
What, is this the 1980’s? You don’t value a pitcher by his win total. Too many variables, such as defense, run production, relief coming in after his stint, etc. A starting pitcher can lose a game even if he pitches great. I thought we all understood that by now.
We all do understand that including me. I was quoting his wins/losses as one stat, not all. I should have been more specific on that. That was my bad. It just riles me up when people make grandiose statements like major overpay. While baseball trade simulator is not the know all of such things it is a respected resource it does back me up. If the Royals thought he should have been say 13-9 instead of 9-13 had it not been for bad luck or all the other reasons you mentioned then they would be foolish to be trying to trade him for India. In the future I will try and be more concise when trying to make a point. Thanks.
Since apparently you are paying for the trade simulator what’s Ashcraft worth? Williamson? Seems like they probably py agree that’s fair.
I have never understood why people thonk a guy who hit the field 32 times a year would be more valuable than someone playing 150 games like they seem to have in recent years.
I can’t tell if you’re joking.
Are you just against trading hitters for pitchers? I guess that’s an opinion.
32 games is rare for a SP
Depends on the hitter and the pitcher.
I would not give up an everyday player for a fly ball pitcher in a homer happy ballpark.
Sometimes you need to actually make trades or signings that make sense.
Good lord dude you sound obnoxious. Good night.
He’s not joking. Just doesn’t understand the game.
@This one If you look at list of top AAV of MLB pitchers, it is pretty top heavy with starting pitchers.
I’ve kind of powdered the same myself, thinking spend more on a daily strong lineup. But considering that SPs being paid primarily higher AAV by most teams, it stands to reason it’s a rarer commodity. And the strategy of spot filling a rotation with cheaper SPs has only really worked twice in recent years that I can think of(SF&KC). Both those teams had a few top of rotation arms already there though.
Over the last three years Singer has put up 7.9 bWAR. That’s not Cy Young territory but it looks really good compared India’s 3.0 bWAR over the same three years. That’s a big overpay to me. Not to mention that Massey could well be a better second baseman, anyway.
Okay so why then are the Royals trying to make this deal in the first place? Given everything you are saying must mean Royals front office is incompetent at best.
Reds need to throw in a prospect or two.
Wouldn’t trade India for Singer straight up, let alone include a prospect.
The trade itself at least with baseball trade values is close to being even a slight overpay by the Royals. So it all depends on position necessity for each team. Royals must want/need a 2B otherwise not sure why they are discussing a trade for one. As a long time Reds fan I can tell you if the trade would be made India is a great clubhouse guy, comes to play everyday and is working hard on his defense. He is easily a 1 B kind of guy to slip in to second base if Mclain gets injured who is our 1A. A great safety net which we really needed last year as Mclain was out all year. Singer from what I can tell would make a good #4 starter. Reds could use him in lue of signing Nick Martinez that is if Martinez declines his
$21M qualifying offer. If he accepts that will make things interesting if this deal goes through. Reds will have a good deal of pitching to possibly trade and while you can never have too much pitching we really, really need a everyday RH power hitting OF. Royals outfield looks none too impressive to me.
Just like this front office. Need offense, trade away one of your better offensive players last year.
They must be overreacting because they know Martinez is turning down the QO. Typical.
If true and Martinez is turning down the 21M QO then that saves the Reds about 12.5M, make that 18M when you include India’s contract, if this trade goes thru. They can use that to get that preverbal everyday right handed everyday hitting power hitter that they so need. Trading India also frees up the log jam at 2B. India would be not so good at trying to be a super sub.
You don’t believe they will do that any more than I do with that money.
You might be right but it makes a ton of sense and more than ever this year with new manager and clock ticking on our cheap young talent to actually go for it. I for one as a very long time Reds fan don’t know how much more I can support this team if the ownership does not have or will not spend the money to be seriously competitive to at least make the playoffs. It’s been over 30 years since we made it to the WS.
Agreed, which is what I have been saying for a few offseasons now. But this bunch has not shown they will do that so far.
Except I would much rather have Martinez than Singer. It’s a big drop off. Singer pitching in GABP = Graham Ashcraft.
What if we ended up with both?
I hate to see India go but at the same time he is expendable with McLain returning. And getting Singer would maybe stabilize the rotation. As far as depth goes I would be comfortable with Espinal as a good depth option at 2B.
McLain is coming off major shoulder surgery. It would be foolish to pencil him in for 140 games in 2025.
They may put him in the DH a fair amount of time with that very concern. Hope OF is off the table as well!! So far so good with him in the Arizona Fall League. Reds have other question marks going into the season. Marte, CES, Candelario all probably going to be starters. Mclain seems to be IMO the most likely to have a good season.
Take a long look at Espinal stats from last season before getting too comfortable.
I did just that. Espinal had a very good second half of the season. Very comfortable as a back up.
Trade of inconsistent University of Florida first rounders. When will teams learn to stop drafting U of F players in the first round?
I agree. Pete Alonso 2nd round!
jac caglione seems to be the real deal
I see India only made 4 errors this year. Looks like he cleaned up his fielding too.
I wish Cashman would consider a move like this. Pereza for Singer. I don’t think Pereza is in the Yankees future plans now that Durbin could have higher upside
Cole, Rodon, Gil, Schmidt, and Nestor. Who is Singer better than? Not to mention also Stroman, Warren, and Poteet in the mix. lol.
@MLB Well I think KC would be overpaying slightly only because of starring pitching’s current value. Neither team would give up either for Peraza. Why would Reds give up a proven IF for one who has yet to prove anything at MLB level and has fared much worse. As for KC why would they want to give up a solid back of rotation arm for a player who has yet to succeed at MLB level.
India still had poor range last season and his 2nd lowest UZR of his short career. He hasn’t really cleaned it up much. Errors are kind of a poor measure of a fielder as it doesn’t account for all the plays you didn’t get near to have chance to botch that most at the same position would have.
If it doesn’t fit your narrative, discount it with some kind of newfangled statistic you found.
Have you actually seen him play? Hint: Your range is actually a lot better without plantar fasciitis.
Uzr is very commonly used for measuring total zone runs. Regardless of what’s limited his range, it has been limited by every statistical measure. The same parameters were used for all those who rated above him.
IMO- It’s nothing more than a contract for contract deal, KC and Cincy are looking at the dollar value instead of the talent value in this deal. Both of these players could be used in additional trade packages this offseason,
singer fading badly the second half likely is what is setting this up as a young starting pitcher for a slightly above average second baseman did initially seem like an overpay
As a Reds fan I don’t like this for either team, KC could get more for Singer and the Reds should be targeting more offense, perhaps including India in a larger package for a bigger bat
I understand your point, but both teams would probably make other key transactions besides this one.
Much rides on if Nick Martinez accepts his 21M QO or not. If not it’s a good deal for the Reds as coupled with India’s salary it would net save the Reds 18M. That could get the Reds the power bat they need and they would not have to raid their farm system. If KC can get a better 2B for him that another team would make this trade then good for KC.
@Dock I agree completely here. I also think this is bad deal for each player. Singer would be in a worse home park for pitchers and India a more pitcher friendly home park. I could see a drop in production for both players and that slight above avg they ve shown get crushed.
I’m discounting India’s 2019 #s as I do for any player.
Singer would have an ERA well over 5.00 if he pitched in GABP
Bob, you have many good insights on this thread but you have to admit you have no idea how Singer will pitch as a member of the Reds
Octa- I am not saying Singer is without value, at the time this rumor was reported, it was unclear if Nick Martinez would accept the QO. It is now being reported that Martinez will in fact accept the QO. My fear was Singer would be acquired as Martinez’ replacement. To me that would have been a major drop off. Now, if the Reds acquire Singer he would likely be a #4 starter. A role he is suitable for.
The last fly ball prone starting pitcher they got in that ballpark was a guy named Weaver. That didn’t work so well for them.
A haircut and a shave, and probably a bath, would increase his trade value.
I wouldn’t put all my chips on a guy who’s already been busted for steroids. Not to say the Reds should hold on to India. Just make sure they have more reliable coverage.
Rockies need to try to offer Brendan Rodgers to the Royals if Singer is the return. Rodgers is at the very least on the same level as India.
Probably the mariners next .590 OPS second basemen while polanco will probably hit 25 homers on the dodgers
Why trade for Singer when you can just sign Kyle Gibson?
Because it thins the infield herd. Something they needed to do last season, but got lucky that injuries did it for them.
I don’t want to trade Brady singer. I’d rather trade Carlos Hernandez
People are making a lot of assumptions here.
That McLain, Arroyo, and CES are healthy and productive.
That Candelario will be productive – he wasn’t last year. Same for Marte and Benson.
That Lodolo, Abbott are healthy and stay in the rotation all year.
That Fraley and Friedl will be healthy all year.
Also keep in mind Williamson and Aguiar are out for the year.
As happened last year, management makes the same assumptions and it burned them. No reason to believe that will change.
If you want a guarantee, buy a microwave. As a GM, you have to take risks, Every single move you make or don’t make can make you look like a buffoon. Even if it looks good when you make it, it can turn quickly. But you still have to take the risks or you’ll go nowhere.
That is why you have a good bench, a good minor league system, and a contingency plan. You don’t fly by the seat of your pants. You have to be proactive, not reactive. The better GMs of the game do this.
Agreed 100% I will back a GM who takes a risk (not a crazy one) over one who stands pat so his team can finish .500, just miss the playoffs (again) just so he can placate the fans so they will be fans again the next year.
Don’t do it. Keep the pitching KC
India – Agara Bah!!!!
No. India needs to come to Seattle!!!!!
Cool. If Seattle was offering a one for one trade with the type of pitcher KC is offering I am sure he will be your starting 2B in 2025.
I like this, do it, please. Keep India far away from Cashman. Thanks.
Royals need to get a bullpen arm as well to make this trade equal.
This would be selling beyond low for Singer. Have the Reds take on all of the overpays too so the Royals can spend on free agency again if that’s the only player they’d get.
If the Royals are serious about trading Singer then I would propose trading for Phillies 3rd baseman Alec Bohm. Both have two years of team control. Singer posted a bWAR of 3.1, Bohm 3.0. Both are projected for arbitration salaries between 8 and 9M and have an age difference of one day. The Phillies need an arm and the Royals need a bat. Who says no?
This rumor makes the Mariners jealous.
he does seem likely to fit the Mariners penchant for 2B-men that crater as soon as they go to Seattle
Seattle! Emerson Hancock for India. Move!
Nope unless there is something good hidden about Hancock. Seattle has four stud SP that would be a big overpay for India. Hancock has a negative war. Not sure there is a fit at first glance with Seattle.
Keep India and send McLain to the Tigers for young pitching (starter and bullpen). Either Olson straight up OR a good bullpen arm and the Tigers have lots of young starters who either pitched last year or are close. McLain can take over SS, Sweeney can take McKinistry’s superutility spot and they can finally kick Baez to the curb!
Pass. This does nothing for our OF which is what we really need. Doesn’t make much sense unless they know something about Massey’s ailing back that we don’t know yet
I’m not quite sure why KC wants to make this deal. Michael Massey may not be a superstar, but he’s a fine 2B with a nice future. Even if they plan to plant India at 3B or LF and bat him lead off, I really like the Royals pitching depth. I guess India could platoon at 2B and play another position against RHP, but isn’t that what Garica is supposed to do if he’s not full time? I’d look for a hard hitting full time 3B that defends. Kind of like Eugenio Suarez, but obviously not him since he’s apparently unavailable. Singer has been slowly getting it together the past two or three years. He burned me badly, as a fantasy player, years ago so I never go near him, but I admire how he’s pitched the last year plus. I’d still deal him in the right trade, but this doesn’t feel like it to me. I’ve been wrong too many times to count, but that’s my useless two cents..
Royals need batters that get on base and India fits the bill. They need a couple of high OBP hitters in front of BWJ, Vinnie and Sal to score more runs. Not sure I would deal Singer for India straight up but he is definitely expendable. Right now I’m guessing Bubic or Kyle Wright or both could bring up the last two spots in the rotation.
This seems like an effort by the Royals to get this “possible trade” out into the public sphere to spur better offers from other organizations.
Quite possible.
I wonder if the fact that Nick Martinez is accepting his QO changes this at all.
For $21M, I assume the plan is to use him solely as a SP.
I would say so.
No mention to the fact that they were college teammates, huh?
They should trade one of their middle infielders for a good starter, someone like Luis Castillo…
That is the best thing I saw all day.
I’ll trade you India… you give me Pakistan, Bangladesh, and a breakaway republic to be named later.
The Reds did just cut their France Ty, and they sent manager David Bell packing for Canada.
How about Jeff McNeil and a prospect to KC for Singer
Nope. McNeil sucks and he’s expensive. you must be a Mets fan
Ken Rosenthal heard a trade rumor it’s not very close, however.
I think India is an upgrade over Massey.
wish they never did it