The Red Sox have held internal discussions regarding the possibility of moving longtime third baseman Rafael Devers off the position, per a report from MassLive’s Sean McAdam. McAdam goes on to suggest that the club views a trade for third baseman Nolan Arenado with the Cardinals as a potential option to fill their vacancy at the hot corner in the event Devers changes positions, whether that be a move to first base or DH.
The idea of Devers moving to first base has previously been floated by The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal and The New York Post’s Jon Heyman throughout the offseason so far, though McAdam’s report stands as the first confirmation that a position change for Devers is under internal consideration within the organization. Previously, chief baseball officer Craig Breslow has declined to comment on the possibility of moving Devers off third beyond saying that the club wouldn’t seriously entertain the idea without first discussing it with Devers himself. That could be a complicating factor in a position change, as Devers’s agent, Nelson Montes de Oca, recently told Alex Speier of The Boston Globe that Devers has no plans to move off the hot corner.
“He is a third baseman,” Montes de Oca told Speier, “and he will continue to play third base and work hard to get better at it. That’s his position, that’s what he likes to play, and that’s what he will be playing.”
Resistance to a position change from Devers’s camp isn’t the only potential obstacle to a move. After all, the Red Sox have an extremely talented incumbent first baseman in Triston Casas, who at just 24 years old remains under team control for four more seasons and has previously expressed interest in signing with Boston on a long-term extension. The youngster missed much of the 2024 season due to injury but is a career .250/.357/.473 (125 wRC+) hitter since making his big league debut late in the 2022 season. There’s been speculation at times this winter that the Red Sox could consider moving on from Casas to land starting pitching, but Breslow was quick to shoot down those rumors earlier this month. Given that, a move to first base for Devers would require the front office to either reverse their stance on dealing Casas or else park him at DH on a regular basis, pushing Masataka Yoshida (and the three years and $55.6MM remaining on his contract) either to the bench or off the roster entirely.
Complicated as a position change for Devers would be, the potential benefits for the club could be substantial. Devers is among the worst fielding third basemen in the sport by most metrics, and a move across the diamond would surely improve the club’s infield defense dramatically. In 2024, Devers was worth -9 Defensive Runs Saved and posted a -5 in Statcast’s Fielding Run Value metric. That’s the lowest DRS and tied for the lowest FRV among all qualified (min. 750 innings) third basemen this year. Replacing Devers with an average or even slightly below average glove at third would improve the club’s infield defense considerably, but a position change for Devers would likely be just as motivated by it creating an avenue to improving the club’s offense.
If third base were to be opened by Devers moving to first, that would create an easy place for the Red Sox to add a right-handed bat to the lineup. Adding some thump from the right side has been a priority for Boston dating back to the trade deadline, and the club’s need for a right-handed hitter to add to their offense only grew more pronounced when outfielder Tyler O’Neill hit the open market earlier this month. Most attention on this need has been focused on the outfield at this point in the offseason given the club’s reported interest in either a reunion with O’Neill or pivoting to a deal with Teoscar Hernandez, but the club’s outfield remains crowded with Jarren Duran, Wilyer Abreu, and Ceddanne Rafaela all in the mix for playing time already before considering top prospect Roman Anthony (or veterans Yoshida and Rob Refsnyder), who should be ready to take on a regular role at some point in 2025.
Complicated as that outfield picture already is, it’s easy to see why adding a right-handed bat to the infield could be a preferable, more straightforward option than adding another player to the club’s logjam on the grass. Given that, it’s perhaps no surprise that the club has been connected to both longtime Astros third baseman Alex Bregman and former Brewers shortstop Willy Adames in free agency. Both players have expressed an openness to moving to second base (as well as third, in the case of Adames) if their new club so desires, meaning the addition of either player wouldn’t necessarily require Devers to change positions. With highly-regarded second base prospect Kristian Campbell seemingly in the mix for starts in Boston as soon as Opening Day, however, it’s easy to see why the Red Sox may prefer to install Bregman or Adames at the hot corner and move Devers to first.
While the club’s interest in Bregman and Adames has been reported semi-frequently to this point in the winter, McAdam’s suggestion that Arenado could be a consideration for the Red Sox is the first connection between Boston and the veteran star. Unlike Bregman and Adames, it’s all but unfathomable that a ten-time Gold Glove award winner like Arenado would change positions in deference to Devers, meaning a deal for the 33-year-old would certainly require a position change for the younger star. Arenado is also coming off his second consecutive down season offensively. While he was a finalist for the NL MVP award back in 2022, he’s hit just .269/.320/.426 (104 wRC+) in two seasons since then.
That said, Arenado’s defense has remained well above average even if it’s no longer quite as elite as it was during his peak, and that’s allowed him to be a roughly three-win player in each of the past two seasons. While he may no longer offer the same level of impact as Bregman or Adames, the three years and $74MM remaining on the veteran’s contract pales in comparison to the nine-figure sums both free agents are expected to land and would likely do little to impede Boston’s pursuit of other top-of-the-market names like Juan Soto, Corbin Burnes, and Blake Snell, especially if a deal involved the Cardinals either retaining some money or taking on a sizable portion of Yoshida’s contract in return. Any deal involving Arenado, of course, would require the veteran’s approval given his full no-trade clause. While the 33-year-old hasn’t requested a trade to this point, both he and the Cardinals appear to be open to parting ways if the right deal comes along given the club’s plans to retool and focus on youth in 2025.
Interesting move, I never like the idea of forcing a player to everyday DH to get them in the lineup which is what would happen to Triston Casas here
Why not move Devers to DH and keep Casas at 1B?
The stigma of paying someone that kind of coin just to DH, I would imagine.
Just like when they played Story at 2B and XB at SS, it would be to salvage the ego of a “me first” player.
Let – Here’s the thing, we don’t know if Devers would be better at 1B than Casas because Cora has refused to play him there at all … even during ST or infield practice.
Fever, I can’t picture Devers being an improvement over Casas defensively. But I also find it had to picture either of those two being a DH 145 games out of the year.
Not my first choice, but if the years and money were right, let’s 3yrs and around $24mm per, couldn’t we sign Pete Alonso as right handed half of DH and 1B platoon with Casas?
Let – Agreed, it would greatly decrease their trade value.
On what planet can you picture the worst 3B in history being better than a league average 1B? There is NOTHING that suggests Devers can play 1B since he can’t scoop ground balls so why would he be able to scoop throws? Also, one of his biggest deficiencies as a defender is his poor balance. That’s a critical skill at 1B. Stick a fork in the idea Devers can play ANYWHERE!!!! BURN THE GLOVES!!!!!
letitbelowenstein – So we should double down on the mistake and compound the impact of the overpay? Seems like an unusual strategy Cotton!!
This^^^ all day.
That’s been reported in the comment section here for 3 years now. What are we, chopped liver ??
Big – Right on! But Arenado’s hitting decline is a concern, as is his contract. I wouldn’t mind giving Moncada a try though.
@Fever Pitch
Your correct, Arenado’s bat did decline. However, IMO having the Green Monster to pound off of and hit high fly balls over will greatly improve his bat.
Arenado is a shadow of his former self, but can still play defense. Makes the most sense if the Red Sox can send Yoshida the other way (along with a prospect) in a trade.
This frightens me. Sounds like Casas might be moved
Does this mean the Bobby Dalbec era is really over?
Bobby who?
Another flash in the pan the Boston media tried to turn into a legend!
Since when does the player decide where he plays? I thought that was the manager’s decision??
It no longer works that way in mlb.
Ghost – Exactly, pampered players these days.
When he’s your superstar and you want him to be happy. 100% normal.
Exactly
Sometimes the manager doesn’t have a say in it. Sometimes the GM or owner makes the call.
Manny Machado went from full-time 3b in 2017 to full-time SS in 2018. Why? Instead of doing what was best for tge team that year, the Orioles FO maybe put more importance on the future by enhancing his trade value?
Seam – A position change typically hurts their offense too. Xander moving to 3B years ago as one example.
Bogaerts hit as well in 2014 as he did in 2013. His offense fell off this year, but that is continuing a kong standing declibe.
TFF17 – Bogey played hurt much of 2024. I think he deserves credit for trying to play through the pain. I respect his attitude and loyalty to team.
Sag – Great post, I totally agree!
tff – Sorry my friend but you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
In 2013 as a 3B he had a .511 OPS.
In 2013 as a shortstop he had a .815 OPS.
In 2014 as a 3B he had a .517 OPS.
In 2014 as a shortstop he had a .724 OPS.
The rest (as a shortstop) is history ;O)
If Devers defense is the problem, why move him to first? Makes no sense. All that aside, I have no desire to have Arenado here.
Sox had 11 players at 2B last year, not one of them (except maybe Raffaele. But we didn’t see enough) was above average defensively. If Story plays, and he have adequate second base play Devers overall impact on the defense shrinks.
At times last year it appeared to me that Devers was trying to do too much. Leave him alone……
Sad – The main issue with Devers is his bad throws, which would be mitigated by moving him to 1B.
Sad and FPG, the main issue with Devers is both bad throws and lead feet. His range is measured in inches, not feet. He cannot move to his left at all. I have been saying this for years. Devers is a DH.
Pads – Not being able to move to his left is not as big a deal playing first base.
We all know Devers is bad defensively at 3B, that’s not debatable. But why do some people say he’s the worst at everything when it’s statistically not true?
For instance his UZR from 2021-2023 is -10.4 while Austin Riley’s UZR is -17.2
His RngR is -2.8 while Riley’s is -11.5
His ErrR is -4.9 while Riley’s is -5.2
So take away the throwing, Devers is still defensively bad but better than Riley!
Need to straighten out the facts here.
His hands are bad, his footwork is bad, his balance is bad, his baseball acumen as to what balls to try for is terrible and he ALSO can’t hit the broad side of a barn!!!
BURN HIS GLOVES!!!!
Ain’t happening. This is nothing more than motivation for Devers to get better.
Ghost – Or it could mean Devers health, especially his shoulders, is now a greater concern.
FPG – scary but thoughtful point about Devers shoulders.
But. If there was a health issue, would his agent be so vocal about a potential change? I hope not
Agreed, this is health related. Big body players like Devers don’t age well on the left side of the infield. He needs his shoukders to slug, and once injured they never heal fully.
His agent is irrelevant.
What’s the rating on Yoshida in the OF?
Cause couldn’t they just for
Yoshida LF
Casas DH
Devers 1B
Also, I wonder if Boston would attach Casas to Yoshiads contract to just clear it.
Say
Padres trade Cease and Arraez to Boston
Padres receive Yoshida and Casas
And whatever else it takes to get a deal done
Padres pick up a LF in Yoshida and 1B in Casas
Red Sox pick up the starting pitching they need in cease and a top of the order bat at DH in Arraez and let Devers go to 1B
Yoshida is a butcher defensive. I’d rather move Devers to LF.
Boston has been hiding butchers under the monster for years
SDP is NOT trading Cease.
They have a Cease and Desist order out.
Pun intended
Padres fans also said Soto wasn’t going to be traded either.
Most likely either king or cease get traded as they’re the padres best contracts in the event padres need to create financial wiggle room.
Anyone else like cronenworth arraez they either have to eat money on the contract or swap for a similar contract of some sorts.
Theyre probably not gonna eat money so their best outlook to move those salaries is a swap. But both have more valuable to the padres as is.
Unless ownership is willing to break the tax threshold, if padres want to make additions either free agency or trade 1 of king or cease probably goes
Otherwise you’re stuck with Lockridge in LF, Rosario at 2B, Cronenworth at 1B and some in house option to replace Musgrove in the rotation or rerun Perez
I’ll guess Darvish Cease King Vasquez and rerun Perez on like 1 year 3-5 mill
Harrison – Look the Red Sox have a lot of outfielders.
Since NOBODY is close to as bad as Devers on defense by default he MUST BE FORCED TO BE THERE.
That leaves a lot of great defenders in the outfield in Duran, Rafaela and the gold glove winner Abreu not to mention several up and coming stars in Anthony and Campbell.
Yoshida is a couple of steps up from Devers but several steps down from the guys I mentioned above. He has no future except to be traded. These same owners created $41 Million of Retained Payroll back in 2016 so wasting money is their forte. Get whatever you can get for Yoshida and Story and accept the fact that Devers will be a payroll albatross for the next 9 years. Let the kids play, go get a REAL 3B and spend some money on two top of the rotation pitchers with at least one lefty and a lefty set-up man that doubles as a closer to back-up Hendrik.
These moves make the team a 95 win or more team.
Fat boy was guaranteed $300MM—-why should he move off 3B?!? He can check out every day and collect his cash.
This is a solution that creates more problems than it solves and is wrapped in complexity. If they really want Arenado, he needs to play 2nd base. That’s where the hole is that needs an obvious solution.
Arenado is not going to agree to play second base.
Why would the really good defensive player move position?
Between Grissom and Campbell, I’m thinking they figure out 2B this year. Arenado is a GG 3B.
tff – *Was a Gold Glove third baseman.
Hasn’t been for the past two seasons.
Yoshida and Grissom for Cronenworth and Brito. Sox kick in 10 mil.
I like this move and I think Casas could be traded. He’s a better candidate to trade than Duran. If Casas stays, can he play 3rd base? Devers long term is better at first if he can handle it
I like that you question Devers ability to even handle 1B.
Biggest – Devers can’t play 1B based on his behavior on line drives that bounce within 10 feet of him. He’s a butcher at those which mimic low throws from infielders. Also, he loses his balance all the time and falls especially on balls to his right. The 1B can’t look and play like a drunken sailor!! Another issue is how he cuts in front of the SS when at 3B and messes up so many plays. If he’s at 1B and cuts in front of the 2B all the time who is covering 1B, the pitcher sprinting to the base? That sounds like an injury waiting to happen.
I veto any idea that Devers can play 1B or learn to play 1B since in 14 years he still hasn’t learned 3B.
Sox have plenty of talent both in the infield and outfield, veteran and upcoming. What they need to do is to sort it out, Like who of Campbell, Mayer, Hamilton, Grissom, and Story will get the job done.. Devers and Casas are potentially the heart of the order; getting older players in their declining years (Arenado or Bregman) for premium money is not the answer.
The Sox need to upgrade starting pitching. Sign one of Burnes, Fried, or Snell. See if we can get Crotchet from the White Sox. With Giolito coming back and the guys from last year, the Sox then might have enough good starting to be able to compete in the East.
I’m with you 100% jtango. Fix the glaring problem areas first before you shuffle the infield by adding yet more options. I think when I prioritize all the problem areas , Devers fielding at his position is on the list but certainly not in the top 5 priorities.. why mess with your current biggest bats to save a few errors at 3rd .. Why did we finish where we did last year? I don’t think it was Raffies glove work
Resox2Pen – I think you underestimate the impact of 50 misplayed balls whether you count 14 as errors or all of them. They are still not outs and they stress the pitching staff. That’s just one guy. He’s made 20% of the errors that were counted over the last 8 seasons. That’s a huge number and it keeps us near the bottom of all the team defensive rankings.
Boston doesn’t need a lot.
1 – Move Devers to DH
2 – Add a SP1 as good as Sale
3 – Add a SP2 nearly as good as Sale
4 – Add a guy like Tanner Scott (lefty reliever who doubles as a closer)
All other areas are insignificantly lesser problems except Cora.
Sagacity:
When I search on “the number of errors made by an MLB 3rd baseman in a season “. Goggle AI reports
“According to available data, the average MLB third baseman commits around 10-15 errors per season, depending on the player and the number of games played; this position is typically considered one of the most challenging defensively due to the variety of ground balls and throws required, often leading to a higher error rate compared to other positions. “
Devers errors/year
2020 – 14
2021 – 22
2022 – 14
2023 – 19
2024 – 12
I understand this certainly doesn’t compare to the numbers Arenado or other GG
3rd basemen put up as he is typically 5-8 errors higher than league average. Not really sure where your 50 misplayed balls number comes from . He is playing infield to a pitching staff that is very much pitch to contact. That puts a lot more balls on the ground than most team infields see .. Last year we were 20th in the league in staff strikeouts .. pitch to contact with no high K pitching .. In that case , you damn well better have a gold glove SS and 3B as typically that’s where 1/3 of a team’s errors source.
I like your priority list !
Here’s mine :
1 – Add a SP1 as good as Sale
2 – Add a SP2 nearly as good as Sale
3 – Add a guy like Tanner Scott (lefty reliever who doubles as a closer)
4 – Trade Yoshida
5 – Solidly 2B with internal options
6 – Move Devers to DH
I’ve been saying it for weeks, it all came to me during a spiritual session… Casas will be packaged with one or two mid-tier spects to Toronto for Vladdy Jr, who will sign an extension and split time between 1B/DH with Devers, along with LF Juan Soto also getting rest days at DH (Who will sign for around $626 Million over 13 years and possibly opt out after year 3 or 4.)
Yoshida’s contract will be packaged in full with Duran in a trade to Seattle for pitching (or perhaps they work a contract swap of Yoshida + prospect for Castillo), along with BOS signing several FA arms. 3B will likely be filled internally this year, with Campbell possibly making a strong case for the gig during Spring Training – I don’t see his arm being any worse than Devers at 3B.
So there you go, you heard it hear first from a highly reliable source!
Can’t see Seattle taking both left handed OFs. But, if they want yo trade me Castillo and his 3yr contract for Duran, I’d do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
As far as Yoshida goes, if he was the lefty part of some sort of weird DH platoon you can live with it, but he can’t be in the field on the regular
High – You’re not the only one who heard it from Carlos Baerga ;o)
Nah FPG the Carlos Baerga comments only came out recently!
It was Pokey Reese who visited me spiritually, obviously.
Not trading four years of Casas for one year of Vlad, let alone adding prospects.
But the Yoshi/Castillo idea is interesting.
I don’t believe Yoshida would bring back Castillo unless Sox pay 3/4 of his salary hahaha
That said, I would love Castillo. Only 3yrs/$75mm left on his contract. Yes, he’s been helped recently by pitching in Seattle, but he’s tenacious, and pitches deep into almost all his starts. Considering bullpen, that’s a huge help to pitching staff
JB that’s why I included the part of signing Vladdy to an extension if they’re going to trade 4 years of Casas. And keep in mind that Vladdy is only 1 year older than Casas, with his 2024 WAR alone being more than double Casas’ entire MLB career thus far. It’s a no brainer, especially if it leads to Soto wanting to sign with Boston.
Dodgers went the Japanese star route and the Red Sox are about to go the Dominican star route, just wait and see 😉
Why would arenado approve a trade from a second place team to a last place team? Makes no sense
Yeah i think people are ignoring this detail. Arenado isn’t getting dealt by an 83 win team to go to an 81 win team.
He’s not LOL
People VASTLY overestimate how much players care how good their team is.
That’s the ENTIRE REASON he would potentially want to be traded. If he’s not going to a better team he’s not being dealt.
This is mostly just sportswriters’ speculation. Of course the Red Sox are checking in on all the top FA and trade possibilities (due diligence) but the odds that they do this or are even actively considering it are virtually nil.not gonna happen, and I wish the writers would stop this and not get Raffy and his agent all riled up.
Would be monumentally stupid to sign Devers to a 10 year/$300 million contract and then move him to 1B in year 2 of the deal. It won’t happen for years, I seriously hope this story won’t be offseason click bait for the next decade.
What was monumentally stupid was signing a player so bad at defense that he was destined to be a DH to a 10 year/$313.5 million contract.
Moving him to DH now is what needed to happen 3-4 years ago. Devers is a great hitter. He is a terrible 3B.
It’s not often I can say this about an online comment, but you are 100% correct in every single way
Pads – There’s basically three reasons why they gave him the monster $292M extension (your amount doesn’t take into consideration deferrals):
1) The Red Sox love to pay based on “potential” performance, not past performance. That’s why they overpay so many players that have been declining, their analytics department convinces them there will be improvement.
2) The Red Sox value age far more than they should. They looked at Devers being so young as good reason to give him the contract, rather than pay older players such as Xander and Mookie.
3) The Red Sox backed themselves into a corner by trading Mookie and pushing Xander out the door. Devers was the last star remaining, they would have had literally nobody left with star power (not counting the injured Sale).
Ever see Devers talk about the extension? His face lights up in amazement as he admits how shocked he was to be offered such a huge amount.
Hopefully Breslow can bring some intelligence to the front office, otherwise a massive overhaul at the top of the Baseball Ops chain is needed.
Or maybe the Red Sox are fine with having a below average defensive 3B? At what point do you think they are just fine with his defense there? He’s been the starting 3B for the team since 2017 and has graded out negatively every single year there except for 2019. Seems like they are fine with it?
Hot – At some points in time he was improving, but I think his health is now a concern.
Moving was always inevitable, it’s just been a matter of when.
The only way this happens is a Casas trade or Yoshida trade. Yoshida is borderline untradeable, unless you pay for him to play against you and ask for “nothing” back. Casas will get you back a good haul, but when you already are deep in the hole on team power, you would then need to bring in a third baseman with power, and also add another power bat. You need to be able to fill those gaps, know you will, or it can backfire.
Anyway, at least the pitchers will be happy. He is a liability with a baseball glove.
Yoshida is owed $54 million. If the Red Sox ate $24 million of that, they might actually get something in return for him. He is a decent hitter, 11-12% above average. $10 million AAV is something that another team may take on.
If the Sox trade for Arenado it’s almost certain Casas is going to St.Louis in the trade so naturally they would have to consider moving Devers to 1B. Arenado is a superior 3B to Devers, the flip side would be if they found a taker for Yoshida which seems unlikely
St Louis doesn’t have a need at 1b. For better or worse, they’ve committed to playing Contreras there platooning with Burleson and possibly Baker.
Yeah Casas is a nice player but the Cardinals don’t need him at all
The Red Sox aren’t trading Casas in a trade for Arenado. The only way you move Casas is for legit starting pitching that’s controllable.
There’s no good controllable SP available for a 1B/DH unless he’s like Freddie Freeman level good, and Casas ain’t in that ballpark.
Then you don’t trade Casas simple as that.
Bruin – Agreed, under no circumstance should Casas be involved in a trade for Arenado.
You don’t trade a potential MVP candidate for someone the Cards are trying to trade as a salary dump.
Fever Pitch Guy – Teach STL a lesson, out dump them.
Devers for Arenado.
Sag – You said you work for the Cardinals, can’t you pull some strings? LOL!!
If this is something that would get Devers all riled up, he’s not who you want to build a team around. Its not like he’s unaware of his fielding ability.
Devers is an awful third baseman and a move off third is long overdue. Can we move Cora out of his job, too?
30 Parks – I loved your comment!!!!
I heard there is a team in Siberia that Cora could manage!!!
Hope they do it.
Then fans can learn that 1B is a far more important position than 3B defensively. Other than the P and C, the 1B handles the ball the most during a game. Devers can screw up games at 1B far more than he can at 3B. Face it, the man’s a DH.
It’s not nice calling someone a DH. He seems like an ok guy, why be so nasty? Oh, designated hitter, my bad.
The athletic cup lobby disagrees.
Perhaps the Casas problem gets resolved by sending him out in the possible Arenado trade.
Cards have 1B covered with their former catcher.
Roguesaw2 – THERE IS NO CASAS PROBLEM. He a future all-star. Don’t get sucked into the BS about Devers being capable of playing anywhere defensively. We have 14 years of proof that he can’t.
Why don’t they just make the other team run the bases clockwise? Then he won’t even have to move. Honestly, this problem solving thing isn’t that hard.
I’d like to see Arenado traded. I don’t see him approving any trade unless it improves his chances of making it to the World Series. Boston isn’t likely to be one of his approved destinations.
I agree, but he’d put up monster numbers in Boston if he can get back to pulling the ball. (No pun intended.)
Except that’s not really possible. His value as a younger player all came from his insane hand speed, which was the fastest I’ve ever seen. Both offensively and defensively. That’s going quickly now. He can’t get the barrel to inside heat anymore, and that was his bread and butter.
That’s true, but he’s also been chasing “hitting to all fields” instead of relying on his bread-and-butter.
Arenado is always tinkering. He went down a wrong path at one of these hitting labs last winter and it really screwed him up. I think he was battling a bad back the previous year.
Yes, he is aging, but the back and bad coaching haven’t helped. I think he still has a couple of decent seasons left in him, especially at a better hitting park.
BOS have alot of decisions to make.
If I was their GM I choose the best defense options at a relatively reasonable salary.
That and like every other team improve their starting and relieving pitchers. At least 1 impact SP and RP.
Trades and FA signings. Ask around and see if you can get decent return for Story, Yoshida, possibly Casas and have to include so money $.
Offensively challenged teams like LAA, KC, DET, SEA might bite
Story if healthy probably has good potential because he doesn’t have much mileage on his body so to speak (wear and tear)
But I wouldn’t force it – you could still potentially trade some of them at the AS Break and hopefully they get off to a good start and are relatively healthy (Story)
Cases for Oder from twins makes sense for both squads. Throw in a player to create salary relief for twins and they’ll take that deal
I’d rather eat Yoshidas contract and move Devers to DH than trade Casas and move Devers to first.
Makes a lot of sense. Also, I don’t think Casas is at peak trade value yet.
All – When Casas is at peak trade value he will be an all-star and why trade an all-star 1B? We haven’t kept an all-star since Bloom arrived. Devers is an all-star hitter and a delinquent fielder. His contract was a mistake so that’s why it happened. We are all about mistakes since Bloom showed up and dismantled the 2018 team starting with Mookie.
cgallant could not have said it any better!!!!
I don’t want to trade Casas. I think be may have some MVP years ahead.
I like Boston as a possible landing spot for Arenado. His numbers would be great there.
For Boston fans mentioning problems at second base, the Cardinals have a guy named César Prieto they could throw in to get a better return. He’s not on the 40-man. He was their 13th ranked prospect last year, but he’s behind Saggese and Wetherholt in the pecking order and rankings.
I don’t think Boston has a big a problem at 2nd moving forward as some think. It’s likely that Grissom gets his shot at second to start the season and he profiles ok defensively at 2nd but if he falters then it’s likely that Campbell who profiles above average defensively at second would get his shot. The Red Sox also have Meidroth and Sogard if Campbell proves to not be ready.
I don’t know Prieto but the Sox have options. I would work out a deal where Arenado’s contract gets partially offset by including Yoshida. The team signs Adames and Walker with Story moving to second (Campbell in reserve). They also ink a top starter and trade with the White Sox in a deal that includes Abreu. I’d also sign Iglasias as a back up (I said it last year too,). OF is Duran, Ceddane and Anthony. All lefties but it’s ok if they do the other moves.
Brain cramp. Ceddane is a righty…
Could you open a “Red Sox Only” forum and spare the rest of us from your mega-word “stories” about the possibility of moving Rafael Devers from third base to first or change the name of this site. Your bias is really a little nauseating.
.
Just scroll by. You are not required to read it.
Where is trollfree..he would love this idea
Not one person has suggested what the Cardinals would get back for Arenado.
This doesn’t make sense. If Arenado gets dealt it will be to the Dodgers, Mets or Yankees.
Arenado’s contract is underwater (as it was when the Rockies traded him). What the Cards get back depends on how far they’re willing to pay it down. So assuming that answer is “not at all,” he won’t generate any return at all except salary relief.
So…..what would the Red Sox offer?
I am pretty sure the Cardinals would pay some of the contract. They don’t need to unload it the only reason they would trade him is because he’s asking for a trade.
Blackpink – GIve em Devers and tell them he’s improving defensively so it’s a great deal!!!! hahaha
That way you get GREAT defense until Arenado’s contract is up, a right handed power hitter, a great presence in the dugout and a player with the exact opposite level of baseball acumen as Devers. Arenado can be an average hitter and he’ll pay for himself with 25 to 40 less mishaps on ground balls than Devers each season. The number of double plays will sky rocket, the number of pop fouls dropped but not counted as errors will nearly disappear and the number of bunts handled with the bare hand for an out will grow tenfold.
Arenado for Devers was a great trade last year and an even better trade now since the rest of the team has improved. Freeing up payroll sooner is also a huge plus to the deal and getting to watch STL fans mouth’s drop open when they see Devers field should make STL games far more enjoyable to watch. They never appreciated what they got with Arenado and how easily it could have been a whole lot worse.
I hear you but Arenado at the plate recently is like Devers in the field. Lost and confused. In all seriousness I don’t think the Cardinals want that contract.
Blackpink – hahaha You must not watch Devers much because I’ve never seen a hitter as bad as Devers fields!!!
I think you are right that Devers is not someone STL would want. He’s a massive financial albatross and his defense takes a good fielding team down to one of the bottom fielding teams while his hitting is just above league average. He’s not an elite hitter so his fair pay should be around $22Million a year if he plays 3B and around $25Million a year if he DHs. A right-handed dominated team with no DH could use Devers as long as they are not a small market team. Otherwise, Devers has very little value compared to his cost to most teams.
If he lost some weight, his range may be more than knee to knee.
Devers much more likely to develop into a solid defender at first. Casas is a DH.
Given that in my 45 years of life, I’ve NEVER seen a worse fielder in baseball than Devers, ANYBODY at 3B (let alone Arenado) would be an improvement.
A neon orange pilon has more defensive value than Devers…
DEREK JETER has more defensive value than Devers…
JUAN SOTO has more defensive value than Devers… all time 3 worst defenders I’ve ever seen, but somehow Devers just takes the cake
I will point out that when Boggs came up for the Red Sox he was WORSE than Devers. Boggs was Pedro Guerrero bad. I was hoping for Devers to really turn things around eventually (if anything, out of pride), but sadly, by this point in their careers Boggs was already an above average glove, and Devers has only shown the slightest improvement despite no real statistical gains.
There has been worse in your 45 years, but not by much.
Boggs only season with the Red Sox where he was below league average was 1990, when he was 32.
Devers has been at or near the bottom every year since he came up.
William – Your facts on Boggs are flat out wrong. Others have said that in the past and I laid out a full analysis showing it to be complete BS.
Boggs fielding % for 18 years was .962 with league average being .951
Devers fielding % for 8 years is .944 with league average being .961
There were years where Boggs total errors were higher than Devers normal errors but a big part of that is because he had more total chances so his fielding percentage was still much better than Devers’.
Boggs in 1983 made his most errors in one season – 27
Devers in 2018 made his most errors in one season – 24
The key to distinguishing which guy was worse is the total number chances
BOGGS made 27 errors out of 513 chances for a fielding % of .947
Devers made 24 errors out of 326 chances for a fielding % of .926
There was NEVER a point when Boggs was worse than the worst 3B in the history of baseball.
There have been players at 3B who were bad for a season or two but the front office moved them from that spot because it was killing the pitchers. Boston hasn’t done that with Devers. He’s played more than double the number of seasons the really bad 3Bs like him have played. That’s just pure stupidity by the front office and manager.
FYI… If you are looking for a very bad 3B like Devers, Butch Hobson would be a better example but he got moved after only a few years at the position.
Or Encarnacion, if you remember him…
Boggs fielding percentages as a pro 3rd baseman–Not factoring in his mobility being mediocre. Just the metric you used.
What I posted was “I will point out that WHEN Boggs CAME UP for the Red Sox he was WORSE than Devers.”
Came up, not when he was playing for the Sox for years, or a year, of 6 years. They were both horrible, true, but most scouts pegged Boggs as slow footed also and lacking range. Dever, if anything, ranges out of where he should be.
1976 .847
1977 .919
1978 .941
1979 .953
1980 .947
1981 .934
1982 .967
1983 .947
1984 .959 This was considered by most the year that fans realized he made the jump defensively from liability to fairly solid.
William – Thanks for following up with the small segment that your comment applied to. It sounded like you were suggesting they were comparable for their career but clearly it was just a small segment because Boggs improved and Devers didn’t.
Great points! Well done my friend! You’re right- we usually don’t get to see horror at this prolonged length of time because when they are this bad, they don’t usually get a 3rd season to blow it. Devers is a special case study I think. Even though I picked on Jeters, he still made brilliant plays which helped people overlook his mistakes. Devers has never done that (not when I’m watching anyways). I’ve seen him mess up stopping the ball, then mess up transferring the ball to his bare hand and THEN go on to either over throw 1B or 2B or throw to the wrong position or too late. He gets rattled easily by his own errors and then gets even WORSE lol
Np man. I don’t mind getting called out for being wrong.
14 years ago, I was wrong about a packet of Stevia being plain sugar. My wife pointed it out. I’ll never live it down. Just kidding.
As soon as you posted I knew what you thought I meant. Boggs was f’ing awful coming up. So bad that the initial experiment was to make him a 1st baseman, but they changed their minds.
Jeter reminded me so much of Cal Ripken. Neither had any range costing pitchers a lot of hits on grounders other shortstops would get to without issue, but both had amazing hands, and were extremely accurate and consistent throwing. Each prided themselves on being in the right place for each hitter and were fanatical about scouting reports.
You can’t really complain too much about a guy with only a few lateral steps when he makes every play and hits upper tier pitching. I know I would take that over the rangiest shortstop that only hits poor pitching and misses routine plays from time to time.
William-2 – When I coached I made the infielder pay attention to every sign by the catcher and use the location suggested by the catcher as the initial direction of the fielder. You were not always right but you shortened the distance to more than 50% of the grounders to each of the infielders. Ripken talked about it in a sports show I attended confirming what my high school coach had taught me.
That’s one reason why I am so frustrated with Devers all these years. He has no baseball acumen. His bad choices on when to go after a ball and when to let Bogaerts handle the routine ball to SS made me yell at the TV. Then to watch it for 7 more years, AHHHHHHHH!!!! Still have the same reaction. Then to hear Bogaerts range wasn’t good again all I could do is AHHHHHH!!!!
Devers doesn’t have the head for 3B or 1B. He’s a grip it and rip it hitter and an uneducated base runner if it’s not a home run. You take the good with the bad.
Yeah, you’re right, there’s been worse, but they’re brief. I guess I mean of all the superstars. Like how can this guy be so astronomically good at offence and so astronomically bad at defense lol. I forget their SS name right now (from last year) but he was just as bad as Devers which made the entire left side of the infield like an empty parking lot, actually worse, coz an empty parking lot couldn’t pick up a ball and throw to 1B and commit another error lol. BUT that SS guy showed progress the 2nd half the season (progress, still want good) whereas I’ve never seen progress with Devers ever. I mean statistically speaking, it seems improbable that a person who spends that much time at 3B over the years shows ZERO signs of improvement, which means he must be actually GETTING WORSE lol. You have to assume that the average Joe like me or you would even improve. The fact that he doesn’t improve is a little scary or concerning
Did you see Ryan Braun when he first came up as a 3B? The Brewers were practically forced to move him to LF,
Should have traded him before they gave him that awful contract. Embarrassing.
IMHO Devers had far less value than the guys we ended up losing at the time we lost them. I do not think there is a single Red Sox fan that would have complained about Betts getting the money he wanted if it meant losing Devers. I think it would probably have been closer for Bogaerts, but it is possible people would have preferred signing him back over keeping Devers if you had to pick one.
Devers flat out strokes, and he does it against elite pitching. There are a bunch of guys in the league that feed off bad pitching for juicy stats. He hits anyone. He is abysmal in the field. I am convinced those fan guarding nets went up because of Devers, not foul balls.
They have a nice offensive core they should just go all in on pitching and wait till they deadline to see if they need to upgrade offense
Hows devers shoulder? Was bothering him on/off all season. Dude looked crippled the final month
John – When you swing out of your shoes on every pitch, an injury like a sore shoulder becomes far more debilitating. Most smart players would adjust and try to make contact more to limit the pain but again that ‘s most smart players. That’s not his strength.
Even if the Cardinals do trade Arenado, I doubt they’d want to take on Yoshida’s contract in return just to use him as a platoon DH (with Contreras at DH vs. LHP).
If they’re going to have a somewhat underwater contract for a middling bat for the next three years either way, at least Arenado plays every day and adds significant defensive value. Plus, Arenado has a preferable frontloaded contract structure.
Arenado isn’t nearly as good a glove as he used to be (granted he had a long way to fall).
He’s still well above average defensively (and a finalist for the NL Gold Glove this year), which is a lot more than you can say about a DH, even if you consider the so called position to have neutral defensive value like I do..
seamaholic 2 – Seriously? We’ve played the worst 3B in HISTORY and you are worried because maybe the best 3B in history might have dropped off a tad? hahaha Seriously?
Arenado could put his glove on the other hand and still out field Devers. If Arenado dropped from a 10 on the defensive scale to a 9 or even an 8 he would still be a monster upgrade.
After 10 straight years with a gold glove his last two years have seen his fielding percentage drop to .973 and .977 which are both higher than many of his GG award years. He hasn’t gotten worse, somebody else has gotten better and past him to be the new gold standard.
No Yoshidas contract makes no sense for the Cardinals. I would take Story if the Red Sox add some additional salary. He’s not a perfect fit but he could make some sense.
Unless the Cardinals can convince Story to move to 2B, he doesn’t make sense either on a team that already has a quality SS under control for 5 more years.
Well yeah of course he would play 2b. But he’s not a great fit really.
I love Devers but it’s about time he’s just not competent in the field
cr4 – He’s NEVER been competent according to the numbers.
I don’t know what all this gibberish about Devers being a poor 3b … He’s as good as Robinson at 3rd!! ( Smokey)…
About time. He is the worst 3B in MLB. That this is the first time they have had discussions about it speaks to the dysfunction in the Red Sox FO.
How do you know this is the first time?…
It might be Helsey packaged with Arenardo for whatever return
Rantucky – Let me suggest something more helpful to the organization.
Trade Devers to St. Louis for Arenado straight up.
We lose the albatross contract and Arenado doesn’t have nearly as many years left in his contract which is close to comparable financially.
That allows Yoshida an opportunity to stay rather than giving him away like Sale. The defense moves from bottom 3 to top 10. You get a big right handed power bat and keep all the outstanding youngsters.
FYI… I suggested this last year too. Just think how much better off we would be now if we had done it!!
“He is a third baseman,” Montes de Oca told Speier, “and he will continue to play third base and work hard to get better at it. That’s his position, that’s what he likes to play, and that’s what he will be playing.”
Sorry, Sport, but that’s not how this works.
Selfish.
Why not send Yoshida in a package of at least one of their 4 or 5th prospects and others for Crochet ? Just don’t see the needle moving with trading Casas.
I’d like to see Detroit offer the Cards Mize, Jung, Baez, and Baddoo with cash for Arnendo. Possibly throw a couple prospects too and try for Walker too. Maybe Tork would make them want to trade, he needs a new start and so does Walker. These 2 clubs have a lot of talent but underperforming for their current team, change of scenery might make them flourish
If Bosox trade Casas b4 the season starts, they’d be selling low on him. Allow him to show what he;s worth and move him at the deadline. Or early on. He wants a boatload of money to stay.
Bobby – Way too logical!!! These types of suggestions are ridiculous. Casas is not someone who should be suggested for trade but the folks who don’t know much about baseball always find someone to pick on. Duran’s an all-star and they suggest trading him, Sale was worthless so giving him away and paying his salary made sense yet he won a Cy Young, Rafaela has been abused by many on this site and so has Casas. There is a large segment of contributors that seem to thrive on creating controversy.
Boston should NOT be considering trading Casas. He should be the five hitter as long as Devers is the 3 hitter going forward. His 1B defense is league average and could improve in the future but if it doesn’t it is still adequate for this team to win a division or a ring.
Earth to peckerwoods running the BoSox, we need pitching and not Soto, and not Arrenado, Damn pitching !
BadCo = We need Devers off 3B as much as we need TWO SPs at the top of the rotation. Soto is completely unnecessary. If Mookie is expendable it seems silly to try to replace him 5 years later with a lesser player despite him being very good. They can’t chase their mistakes that way. Heck, it’s bad enough we have to chase the Sale mistake by getting two rather than one elite pitcher.
The last key to success is trading or firing Cora.
This was the big reason why the extension with Devers was rash. He was destined to be a DH. You don’t pay your DH this much. I like him as a player but had the Red Sox waited to give him an extension, then it would’ve been harder for Devers and his representation to hide how woeful his defensive limitations. His defense makes it unjustifiable to pay him like a position player.
However, none of that matters now. They are stuck with manning him there for at least another couple seasons. They narrowed their options but they still have plenty of options to improve the team. I suspect the best options are trading players for established or talented pitchers. My favorite target would be Crochet.
OR simply trade Devers
They’d need to eat a TON of money to do that. You’ve got a one trick pony getting paid massive sums for a LONG time.
GASOXFAN – SO TRUE!!!
I tried to find a comparable AAV and then trade with them because our bad contract would be shorter and they would have a young guy longer which is construed as good to many people other than me.
Last year, Arenado straight up for Devers made great sense. Red Sox fans all thought it wasn’t fair and Boston would be cheated. I thought the shortening of the term for the contract would be a great trade off for giving STL a younger player who people were beginning to think his defense wasn’t so bad since only half the errors were being counted. In retrospect, a year later, we would have had a much better year thanks to Arenado’s defense, we would have had a better balanced line-up between lefties and righties and we would have had a consummate professional in the dugout but I fear his intensity and attention to detail would not have sat well with the lackluster Cora approach to baseball.
I didn’t realize we had a new manager named Montes de Oca telling the ownership where the only position Devers is going to play. Hope his managerial skills are better than Cora…
Stop with the complaints bout our Cora!
Maybe we could sign Kodi Lee, now he can’t see, but he can sing and play piano which I know Devers can’t. I bet you he wouldn’t be any worse than Devers at 3rd. Just sayin.
God i hope the Sox don’t trade Casas. Can we say Jeff Bagwell??
What a poorly written article, but what else is new from Mr. Deeds. “Complicated as [subject]is/would be” is NOT PROPER ENGLISH! Leaving our “as” to start the sentence violates basic grammar rules. It’s not optional; you can’t just leave it out because you feel like it. And you did it TWICE! Get rid of Deeds already.
Stop with this moving Raffy after he’s been very good this last yr. He hadda bad yr after our Bogie left n with Ke’ke at SS and a bunch of others. Please stop with this stuff!
spitfire – Do you read from the fiction only section of the library? Devers was bad at 14 then signed with Boston and continued to be abysmal except for one year in the minors where his fielding percentage climb high enough that he could see league average from a long distance, then he returned to crap for the rest of his minor league years. When he got promoted prematurely to the Red Sox he upped his errors and proved he didn’t belong at 3B. Eight years later, the score keepers are the only thing keeping him from being the laughing stock of the MLB on defense. He makes 20% of the errors in good years and double that in his worst years.
1920 was the last time we say 3Bs field as badly as Devers has since he came into the MLB. Bad fields, mis-shaped baseballs due to the soft material used back then and players having flat gloves to catch the ball all put the players of that era on par with Devers in today’s game!!!
That’s how bad he is.
We tried to sign Soto, we really did. However, he is cashing in on this contract. Can’t help it if he doesn’t see the sense in signing here. We’ve heard this song and dance before.