Pirates right-hander Paul Skenes has been voted the National League Rookie of the Year for 2024, the Baseball Writers Association of America announced. Outfielder Jackson Merrill of the Padres finished second while outfielder Jackson Chourio of the Brewers finished third. The Pirates will not earn a PPI bonus pick from this result but Skenes will earn himself a full year of service time despite his late call-up.
Skenes, now 22, has made a quick rise to being one of the top pitchers in the sport. As of a year and a half ago, he was still pitching for Louisiana State University. The Pirates selected him with the first overall pick in the 2023 draft, with many viewing him as about as close to MLB-ready as a draft pick could be.
The Bucs let him get his feet wet as a professional, putting him into five minor league games late in 2023, but never letting him throw more than two innings in any of those. There was some speculation that he could crack the Opening Day roster in 2024 but the Pirates decided to build him up slowly. He was started in Triple-A but with his outings mostly kept around three or four innings.
Despite the kid gloves, Skenes proved it was time to break free, posting a 0.99 earned run average in those minor league outings. That got him promoted to the majors in May, less than a year after being drafted.
His relatively young age and lack of professional experience were easily overwhelmed by his incredible talent. Flashing a triple-digit fastball, a devastating “splinker” and several other pitches in his arsenal, Skenes went on to toss 133 innings over 23 big league starts. In that time, he had a 1.96 ERA, 33.1% strikeout rate, 6.2% walk rate and 51.3% ground ball rate. He produced 4.3 wins above replacement in the eyes of FanGraphs, placing him tenth among all pitchers in the majors this year, despite tossing fewer innings than everyone ahead of him.
The timing of his call-up and this victory are both noteworthy. The collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players features measures designed to encourage top prospects being promoted, the prospect promotion incentive, and also to disincentivize service time manipulation. If a player is on certain top 100 prospect lists and is promoted early enough in the season to earn a full service year, that player can earn his club a bonus draft pick depending on awards voting. On the flip side, if such a player is not promoted early enough to get a full year but managed to finish top two in Rookie of the Year voting regardless, that player earns himself a full year of service retroactively.
Had Skenes been promoted earlier in the year, this award would have netted the Bucs an extra draft pick. But since he was held down into May, they were not eligible to receive that pick. Skenes, on the other hand, will now have a full year of service time. That is significant for him as he is now slated to reach free agency after the 2029 season, his age-27 campaign. Under previous collective bargaining agreements, his free agency would have been one year further into the future.
Merrill was eligible to net the Padres a PPI bonus pick and likely would have done so in any other year. He just had the misfortune of competing against Skenes in the voting. Per the BBWAA, each of the 30 votes had Skenes and Merrill in the top two, 23 of them putting Skenes first and seven of them going for Merrill.
The fact that it was even close indicates how impressive Merrill was this year. A shortstop prospect with no Triple-A experience, Merrill moved to center field just this year to help the Padres fill a vacancy at that spot and hit the ground running. He got into 156 games for the Friars, hitting 24 home runs, stealing 16 bases, slashing .292/.326/.500 and getting strong grades for his glovework.
There was a case that Merrill deserved the award more than Skenes since his performance was over a full season, and clearly a handful of voters did lean that way, but ultimately not enough to get Merrill over the line. Despite the incredibly impressive performance, he comes up just shy of getting the trophy while the Padres come up just shy of getting a bonus draft pick.
The third place votes were split between just two players, as Chourio got 26 of them and Shota Imanaga of the Cubs got the other four. Chourio hit 21 home runs and stole 22 bases, slashing .275/.327/.464 while providing solid outfield defense. Imanaga tossed 173 1/3 innings over 29 starts for the Cubs with a 2.91 ERA. In many other years, those two players could have won the award, but they were instead relegated to nabbing a few third-place votes due to the stunning seasons of Skenes and Merrill. Players like Masyn Winn and Joey Ortiz also had excellent seasons but couldn’t even get any votes due to how strong the competition was in the National League this year.
well deserved. skenes dominated beyond words
if he threw a few more innings, he mighta won CY too
the jacksons will have very good careers ahead of them as well. excellent rookie class
Yeah, this was absolutely one of the best rookie classes the NL has ever seen. 1968 was pretty great as well with Bench and Koosman, and 2015 had Bryant and Thor, but Skenes and Chourio could be generational players. Merrill looks like a regular All-Star, too..
All things being equal, the most hyped guy usually wins these writer’s awards
This is an absolute embarrassment for the writers. The players gave it to Merrill and if the writers knew that would have done the same.
You embarrass far too easily.
Why don’t they have two rookie of the year awards? One for pitchers, and one for position players.
Doesn’t that make sense?
Waaaaaaah! Nobody respects MY Padres.
Don’t cry, little Niño. Nando’s platinum glove will shine forever…
@El Nino, I don’t think the writers are embassared by this. They’ve gotta eat and so do their bosses. IMO, Skenes over Merrill is a better story. Better story means better revenue. And I’m okay with this. Both deserving.
What I’m not okay with is on the AL side. IMO, there was nobody deserving enough to collect hardware and in turn the winner and his team benefiting from it. Should there be a baseline of regular stat line accomplishment(s) to qualify for ROY? Per my first paragraph, doubt it would happen with writers making the call. Too subjective here. They’ve gotta put food on the table
The players gave it to Merrill and if the writers knew that would have done the same.
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I like Merrill, but I don’t think this was even close. Merrill had an excellent 4.4 bWAR, but Skenes had a 5.9 in about 2/3rds of a season. Skenes had a 0.42 better ERA than the CY winner. He was 11-3 on a bad team.
Skenes is one of the best rookies ever to play.
@Joe Brady. He’s one of the best rookies of all time to start 23 games
Merrill had an fWAR of 5.3. Skenes fWAR was 4.3.
Well you’re also neither a player nor a writer but thanks for sharing your opinion.
All things being equal, the guy with the hottest girlfriend usually wins. (as he should).
yeah Skenes is all hype no talent
SMH
Didn’t happen this time. The most hyped guy was Jackson Merrill. imho
What type of hype is hype to you? Skenes was 1st pick in draft and Pirates held him down while we anticipated his arrival for quite some time while the legend grew. 9 out 10 east coast writers didn’t know he Merrill existed until the 5 game winning HRs in August, they’re asleep when he’s playing.
Great rookie class. Not arguing against this pick. Surprised the Inmate picked up the award in the AL though.
The AL had like 6 guys place, makes me wonder how Mayson Winn doesn’t place in the NL…
Nutting is probably npissed. Will have to pay him a year earlier
You mean Nutting will lose him a year earlier. If you think Pittsburgh is gonna offer him enough to stick around I have a bridge over the Allegheny to sell you.
Typical dumb Pirates move, don’t even get an extra draft pick. Guess they thought he would never win this award if we keep him in the minors longer.
from everything I read, the intent was to build up his arm strength in the minors before promoting him last year
So it made sense to bring him up when they did.
Of course, knowing how cheap this organization is, it’s easy to question their decisions
Also to limit his innings pitched
They’ll extend then trade him.
Cy Young is next
Pirates down to 5 years of Skenes and Pads getting no pick for Merrill…
PPI should be adjusted a bit imo.. T2 RoY should be worth getting that pick.
Nobody should get picks because they have really good rookies.
It means they have good player development instead of relying on FA to build their team. If PPI pick can give teams incentives to improve their player development, then PPI is well deserved and will be good for baseball
You realize big market teams win the rookie of the year more than small market teams. Player development is usually who spends the most in the minors or just really lucky getting a phenom in the draft.
You are wrong. Check the list of Rookie of the Year winners in recent years., beginning with the 2020s. If you lie on a board like this, be prepared for someone to correct you with the facts.
mlb.com/awards/rookie-of-the-year
MR. Q: The Pirates didn’t exactly develop Skenes. He came to them pretty much as the finished product.
Where is the lie? Like I said big market teams and phenoms. I’m not sure what facts you think you stated. You posted a list of ROY award winners. Now do the math if more big market teams have won the award more often. I said nothing about since 2020. You added that to fit your narrative.
Top 10 market teams have had a player win ROY 20 times in the last 20 years. Exactly 50%.
The lie. Go back to the year 2000 if you wish. Who are these big market teams dominating the Rookie of the Year voting?
“You realize big market teams win the rookie of the year more than small market teams.”
I went back 20 years on the list you posted a link to. 20 of the 40 ROY during that period were from teams from a top 10 market. Those are the big market teams.
Skenes still had never faced major league hitters no matter how good he was in college
Agreed. The teams with the best rookies already picked early or in some cases have Competitive Balance Picks.
Don’t worry you’ll still have a chance to buy him in 5 years. Geez.
That’s not what ppi is for. It’s intended to incentivize teams to promote their top prospects when they’re ready to perform in mlb and cut down on teams keeping prospects stashed in aaa to manipulate their service time.
Nobody should get picks because they have really good rookies.
===============================
That’s wrong. The idea behind the picks is to encourage teams to promote their best prospects instead of holding them back for service time.
I thought Merrill only had to place inside the top 3 for the Padres to get a pick?
Wrong bub
Only RoY gets the pick
Guess I’m gonna have to read up on the matter.
“The Jackson Boys get Run Over by Paul- The Machine -Skenes”
@Fernando: Looking into it a little bit, he would need to place in the top 3 for MVP prior to arbitration starting. Here’s a nice article:
baseballamerica.com/stories/prospect-promotion-inc…
It’s for the rookie of the year and anyone finishing in top 3 for MVP or Cy Young before they are arbitration eligible.
I believe it is top three for MVP or Cy Young. Witt Jr already earned one for this year for being a finalist.
if any of these players, skenes or the jacksons, Places top three for Cy Young/mvp before arbitration do the teams receive picks in that case?
Merrill would. Chourio won’t as he signed MLB deal before debut. Not sure if Skenes qualifies for Cy Young for same reason he didn’t for ROY.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with Skenes being named. But there should at least be position player ROTY and Pitchers ROTY. Both ROTY’s being pitchers just seems wrong somehow.
@uncle
theres way too many awards as it is…
gold glove, silver slugger, comeback player, ROY, MOY, cy young, MVP, All-MLB First Team, Second Team, the hank aaron award, the roberto clemente award, reliever of the year, executive of the year, Outstanding DH Award
and most of these will end up in some rich ahole’s living room after buying it in an auction some day…
John, You’re not wrong. I also have a problem with them giving away Draft Picks as compensation because most of the good rookies are already a prize for sucking the big one. Why do they get rewarded twice? I mean Merrill played almost every game and did it at a new position and gets hosed. Doesn’t make much sense.
@uncle
merrill’s gonna enjoy a great career, all star appearances, MVP, maybe a WS. and 1 day he’ll cash in big on it all, so dont feel too sorry for him haha
It should be the highest in ROY voting among players/teams that qualified for the PPI pick. Skenes and the Pirates didn’t qualify because he was not called up early enough in the season.
LOL this is one of the dumbest arguments ever.
Merrill is worthy and they should consider and position ROY and pitching ROY. But please stop with the nonsense
How many people tuned in to the all star game this year to watch Merrill hit?
Skenes turned the game on its side. Again Merrill is more than deserving. Unfortunately only 5 voters outside San Diego thought he deserved it.
How many people watched the All Star Game at all? 3? Dumbest sentence ever. What does pitching an inning in an ASG have to do with a yearly award? I don’t think I’ve watched an ASG since 1990. They are obsolete. Even the players hate them and it’s all about money for them.
Yeah dumbest sentence despite the increase in viewership this year.
Jeez you just flailing and failing in the wind Mikey
I adore that the Pirates get nothing from this.
Except having the best pitcher on the planet.
LOL, Easy there buddy. He’s played in exactly 23 games….
@99 Please tell, what is the magic number he needs to pitch before we can acknowledge what the eyes see, and the stat sheet says?
I think what he’s saying, can he do this consistently, do this for a period of time, not for a partial season. MLB is all about adjusting, players will adjust and then what adjustments will Paul make
@olereb I agree in principle with your take, but in rare cases, the player is just too damn good. Unless he gets injured, or his mechanics get screwed up and he loses the ability to command the strike zone, his arsenal of pitches will assure domination no matter what hitters do to adjust.
It will be more about if he can actually stay healthy, which is rare for guys who throw his velo and spin.
The best pitcher on the planet is 12 years old and lives in my house, he just hasn’t pitched enough games yet to qualify
Mmm 50 games? 300 innings? You need more than a year to know where a career is gonna go.
23-7. You were right, Scott. A complementary hat tip to you sir! I thought it might be a little closer, but cheers to Skenes and, by proxy, yourself.
LOTS more. Say maybe 10 more seasons worth.
Here is the list of the best rookie seasons ever.
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&st…
How many of them are even in the conversation for best pitcher on the planet over their careers?
Lets expand that to ones that only pitched 130 innings in their rookie season.
Skenes is down there in 29th with Alex Ogando and Britt Burns. How many on that greatly expanded list made the conversation for best pitcher on the planet in their careers?
@PadsFan We’re not having a HOF discussion. I’m saying he’s the very best Pitcher going right now.
You are trying to compare different Era pitchers to present day ones. It’s not Skenes fault teams limit amount of innings pitched now. I guess finishing top 3 in cy young with only 2/3 of a season was luck. Not a team in the league wants anything to do with Skenes when he’s starting.
Except he wasn’t
He was 5th in WAR.
He was not qualified to be on the list for ERA or FIP.
Clase had a 0.61 ERA
He wasn’t even the best rookie starter in ERA. Rhett Lowder had a 1.17 ERA in 6 starts.
By definition he is not the best pitcher right now.
But you are by definition a sour homer
Havent watched baseball long huh.
he pitched 130 innings last year and struck out 170 batters
In my book, he’s the best pitcher in baseball
I get it, you’re upset that your guy didn’t win the award, PadsFan and while you’re entitled to your own opinion, stop being a sore loser
@Padsfan I understand you don’t like the outcome of the vote, but don’t make yourself out to be a moron by comparing what Skenes accomplished to what Rhett Lowder did in 25% of the time.
And picking the only stat where he was actually better due to tremendous good fortune
Skenes ERA in September was 0.75. He adjusted.
Skenes pitched 22 innings against the Cubs, Marlins, Cards and Reds and 2 innings against the Yankees in September. So the .75 ERA might be a touch misleading.
Career? My point is, today, he’s the best Pitcher on the planet! I don’t any more of a sample size than the 23 MLB starts he’s made to make this claim.
Best pitch arsenal ✅
Quality Command ✅
Mental make-up ✅
Physically imposing ✅
And for those who paid attention, he was only getting better as the season progressed after the competition had an opportunity to scout him repeatedly.
Let me guess, you never actually watched him pitch any of those games. Right?
There’s a reason he dominated the ROY voting and was named the NL All-Star game SP…he’s that flipping good!
Scott, what does the fact that he wasn’t the best pitcher in baseball have to do with the ROY vote?
Try to dispute facts. Don’t try to spin. Don’t be what you are trying to say I am.
Lowder had better results. Can’t dispute that 1.17 ERA is better than 1.96 ERA. Lowder was better in his first 6 starts than Skenes was. It wasn’t even close.
Giving Skenes the benefit of the doubt and sorting for 130+ IP.
Sale had a better FIP
Crochet had a better K/9, xFIP, and SIERA
Skenes was 4th in WHIP.
Skenes was 8th in BA against
Skenes was 4th in WPA
Skenes was 24th in Avg EV
Skenes was 29th in HH%
Clase was far and away better.
Skenes was demonstrably NOT the best pitcher.
Come back in a couple of years and lets see if that has changed.
And you would be wrong…again.
Which would be even moreso the case if he hadn’t been granted a full year of service time.
Let’s see Skenes pitch as many innings as Wheeler to reach that conclusion. Not saying he can’t, just that he has yet to do it.
Except a couple prospects in couple years to restart there new rebuild
In Nutting’s ideal world, Skenes would have been brought up late June instead of mid-May and earned an honorable mention for ROY instead of winning it.
But Skenes absolutely dominated the minors and forced Nutting’s hand into bringing him up a little early. It was Strasburg 2.0 in those minor league stadiums.
Let’s correct that. Wasted his time in the minors.
Stupid statement!
National writers are so predictable.
Shouldn’t they be?
We are at the point where we could replace most of them with Chap GPT and nobody would notice.
The writers got it right.
@James Midway
The click bait will literally start writing itself.
I disagree but that’s the good part about the interwebs we can disagree
Yeah I mean the 2 of the 7 votes for Merrill did come from SD. Very predictable
Unlike the national writers they actually watched Merrill play. To be fair I’m sure few of these writers watched Skenes play.
It was the right choice
PPI is stupid.
I PP
OPP
You know me.
Pads and Pirates both get screwed by PPI. Noice
1 year for skenes he will be a dodger sooner give him year pirates will trade him where he needs to go.
Change sports you don’t have a clue!
BS
Can anyone please explain why the Buccos are not getting a PPI pick? are any of the NL teams getting one?
Maybe an MLBTR explainer?
If Skenes was up OD Pirates would get the pick.. He came up in May.
PPI is trying to incentivize teams to call up their rookies earlier… and risking losing service time..
Pirates losing a prime year of Skenes with no comp is a very expensive loss..
danke
Because the cheap owner didn’t let him start in majors. Has to be up full year.
Congrats to Skenes. Hope the Pirates’ guy and “my” team’s guy Merrrill tear it up in their careers.
Skenes is to Pitching what candy is to Halloween. Haven’t seen anyone dominate this early in their career since Valenzuela? Gooden?
Scott, you old enough to remember Vida Blue when he broke in? He was amazing.
Remember when pitchers tossed 250-300 innings and still had a 2.00 ERA.
@letitbe I remember Vida Blue pitching for A’s during the WS years, but I was very young.
Strasburg
I’ll take 200
Jose Fernandez
@Veejh good comp. He was electric.
Well so much for the incentive for teams to call guys up early
Padres did so literally started a dude in a new position day one and never looked back get nothing
Pirates don’t and get screwed out of a year of service time
Doubt teams will continue to call guys up when something like this happens
What’s the point if you get nothing. We will be back to manipulating service time soon.
I think they’ll do something to make it more of an incentive for the team in the next CBA.. like make it top 3 RoY finish or something
Good will with players.
The Pads have also never taken a player to arbitration under AJ Preller.
I’d rather my team do right by the players, even if the league offers no tangible rewards for doing so.
I somehow doubt this is going to make Skenes any likilier to stay with the Pirates
Let’s be real here
Is it because of good will of players
Or is because Preller trades them for guys already under contract before he has to pay them arb salaries.
“ The Pads have also never taken a player to arbitration under AJ Preller.” no seriously how many guys has he traded in a deal before getting to that point. He never went to arb with Soto last year. Probably won’t go to arb with cease or king if he trades one to help the finances
If you think you have found a reason, you tell us. Preller trades prospects. Not established MLB players.
A hint. The Padres are in the top 3rd in MLB in arbitration eligible players signed with Preller as the GM. .
Why on Earth would the Padres trade two of their biggest 2024 contributors when they are trying to win a title next year?
Preller is like 54 for 54 in dodging Arb. Truly a player’s GM. Try harder, turn tables.
So he’s never traded established mlb players?
Cause last year he traded Soto and Barlow.
Also, trading prospects means you don’t pay them arb salaries.
That’s a cool stat. And how many of them did he call up immediately instead of playing service time manipulation games?
That’s a neat stat.
How many of them did he call up instead of playing service time manipulation?
Cause they’re already projected to be at something like 237-243 mill of a 241 cbt threshold.
The most likely course of action is stay clear of the cbt threshold cause who really like paying more taxes than necessary. Maybe you do? Rest of us normal people don’t.
Prospects are still 4-8 years away from Arb. Everybody trades prospects, so maybe I’m not understanding your “argument”
Of players that are Arb eligible and retained, Preller has signed all of them to a contract instead of going to an Arbitration hearing. No other GM can say that, so maybe you’re not understanding the relevance and importance of this.
me: “What’s the point (if you promote guys instead of playing service time manipulation) if you get nothing. We will be back to manipulating service time soon.”
san diego chicken: “Good will with players”
Preller not going to arb hearings and coming to agreements with players doesn’t really have anything to do with manipulating service time since that happens in the pre arb portion of their contracts (usually first two years). Maybe you don’t understand when service time manipulation typically occurs? Hint: its not during arb 1 2 3 4 years, typically if ever.
It’s a nice stat he is successful at avoiding arb hearings, but has little to do with manipulating service time aiming to gain extra team control since by the time arbitration kicks in the contracts are set into how many arb years you get.
Preller doesn’t manipulate ST… and he’s NEVER been to an Arb Hearing. Sounds like the players appreciate the “good will” to me! Cheers
@table guy
Preller has traded lots of high end young players.
Preller has also never taken a three year plus player eligible for arbitration, and has paid them many times. He paid Soto for a year in arbitration. He has paid veteran players like Trent Grisham in arbitration.
It has been well documented AJ is very good at building rapport with players. He learned Japanese so well in courting Ohtani that the latter thought he was a fluent speaker.
Anyhoo.
He does, every GM does with some player at some point.
In Prellers case Chris Paddack had his service time manipulated being optioned down back in 2019.
If I dug deeper im sure i could find more.
Thats all cool info, Doesn’t dispute teams will now revert back to service time manipulation because whats the point of promoting guys and you get nothing as a team. Great for the players, Not so great for teams. Both should benefit.
Ok tables, you think you found one instance 6 years ago… nice reach. Paddack is a very poor example, but it might be all you could reach for. 20yo Merrill was manipulated? 20yo Tatis was manipulated? 20yo Morejon was manipulated? You might be spinning too many tables to keep them all going…
Barlow wasn’t exactly contributing. Soto trade was repurposing his trade value to positions of greater need. Although it is fair to bash him for trading for Soto at all. And he did get a little lucky with Profar and Merrill playing as well as they did this year.
@Gwynning To be fair we don’t know that the players took any pay cut specifically because Preller didn’t manipulate service time or monkey around with arbitration. The Braves for instance are one of the biggest “strict file-and-trial” teams and they are constantly signing their dudes to team friendly extensions.
@My how the turns have tabled Actually Chris Paddack didn’t have his service time manipulated because he didn’t spend the requisite 20 days in the minors. Preller never manipulates service time. Ever. At least not intentionally. You can find guys who just barely missed the full year of service time like Hunter Renfroe and Eric Lauer but those dudes genuinely weren’t ready yet.
Looking at Chris Paddack’s BBref page he went into 2024 with exactly 5 years of service time. So he isn’t just a “very poor example.” He is a “non-example.”
I personally would still manipulate service time even with the PPI rules being a thing now, but oh well.
I’ll find more if I actually invest more than a 5 second google search. But one example disproves your “Preller doesn’t manipulate st” claim.
Service time manipulation was to prevent paddack from getting super two status which worked since he never accrued enough time for super two. Swing and a miss.
There’s nothing left to invest here. The big picture is factually very close to what myself and Ringwormer here have pontificated about, but you’re allowed to have your feelings.
Service time manipulation was to prevent paddack from getting super two status which worked since he never accrued enough time for super two. Hey you’re handling being wrong like a champ. I salute you.
I’m glad you know better than the entire Padre coaching staff, tables! Submit your resume today! Good luck
Paddack’s service time wasn’t manipulated period. He got 1 full year in 2019. Same as he would have gotten if he wasn’t briefly sent down.
A swing and a miss, STRIKE THREE HE’S OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Paddack had spent the requisite 20 days in the minors he’d have been a lock for Super Two status after 2021.
Didn’t disprove a single thing I said lmao. Cause you can’t. Love it
Sending him down cost him super two status which is service time manipulation.
I can tell being wrong is triggering for you by your unnecessary use of caps.
Should change my name to McDonald’s table cause I’m lovin it
Never claimed that. I did say your claim
Preller doesn’t manipulate service time was bs since he did so with paddack and super two status.
But more to the point. Being 100% on arb hearings doesn’t have anything to do with manipulating service time during pre arb portion of contracts.
That’s not how super two works
“ A player is considered Super Two if they have accumulated between 2 and 3 years of Major League service time and rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
But hey least you acknowledge sending him down affected his super two status which is service time manipulation
Sending Paddack down didn’t do anything because he didn’t spend the requisite 20 days in the minors. So it wasn’t service time manipulation. Service time manipulation is when a player finishes slightly below a service time-related cutoff, not slightly above it like Paddack did.
For the dozenth time Preller didn’t manipulate service time with Paddack. He finished 2019 with exactly 1 year of service. If he manipulated service time he’d have finished with 0.171 years like Kris Bryant.
Sending him down didn’t affect anything as far as service time goes. He was sent down because he was on an innings limit.
And WAR also has no bearing on Super Two status. It’s top 22% of players based on service time not based on performance.
Sending a player down affects the necessary requirements concerning super two
“……rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
Wanna guess how much war a player accrues in the minors when they miss starts at the mlb level?
WAR has no bearing on Super Two.
Reading is hard I know
“……and rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
Wanna guess what happens to a players war and other mlb factors when you send them down to the minors? Hint: they affect super two status.
“ A player is considered Super Two if they have accumulated between 2 and 3 years of Major League service time and rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
Reading is hard.
Not when he doesn’t spend the requisite 20 days in the minors as Paddack didn’t.
““ A player is considered Super Two if they have accumulated between 2 and 3 years of Major League service time and rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
How much service time do players get in the minors?
Paddack was ALWAYS going to be first time arb eligible during the 2021-22 offseason. There was no changing that. The question was does he become a free agent after 2024 or is he arb eligible a fourth time at that point? Preller didn’t manipulate service time and he was eligible for free agency after 2024 as a result.
“ A player is considered Super Two if they have accumulated between 2 and 3 years of Major League service time and rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
How much service time do plays accrue in the minors?
“How much service time do players get in the minors?”
A full year if they don’t spend the requisite 20 days in the minors. And even if Paddack had spent the requisite 20 days in the minors he still would have been arb eligible after 2021.
“ A player is considered Super Two if they have accumulated between 2 and 3 years of Major League service time and rank among the top 22% of players with at least one full season of service time in their position based on a formula considering their WAR (Wins Above Replacement) and other factors.”
Being sent down awards 0 days. In paddacks case he was given 172 for a full year. But to qualify for super two you need between 2-3 and meet the 22% criteria. Meaning you need to accrue more than 1 full year your first 2 years. Sending you down affects that.
Which is exactly the number of days he would have accrued if they hadn’t sent him down. So Paddack being sent down did not affect service time/Super Two. If he had spent the requisite 20 days in the minors you would have an argument. But he didn’t so you don’t!
Being sent down awards 0 days. In paddacks case he was given 172 for a full year. But to qualify for super two you need between 2-3 and meet the 22% criteria. Meaning you need to accrue more than 1 full year your first 2 years. Sending you down affects that.
If you’re given 1 full year your first time and 1 full year second time you don’t meet the requirement which says between 2-3. 2 is not between 2-3. Reading is hard math is hard.
So yes. Sending him down cost him more than 1 full year which affected super two.
Sending him down didn’t cost him anything. He finished 2019 with exactly 1 year of service time. Same as if he was never sent down. He didn’t play in the majors at all in 2018 so him qualifying as a Super Two after 2020 was never in play.
Yet another commenter who has no idea how “Super Two” works and feels compelled to post dozens of comments arguing about it with me, who does know how it works.
You need more than exactly 1 year of service time
Do you know what the word between means?
Apparently not since you keep saying exactly 1 but you need more than exactly 1 to qualify cause between means a number bigger than 2 but less than 3. Getting exactly 1 year for two years wouldn’t qualify. You’d need more than exactly 1. Kind of like how you’d get more than 1 if teams didn’t option you down. But least you think you know.
Yes and he wouldn’t have had more than that if he spent all of 2019 on the major league roster. The only way Paddack could have been a Super Two during the 2020-21 offseason is if he had been in the majors in 2018 which he wasn’t.
Yes and Paddack was never going to get more than exactly 1 year for 2019. Like I said, Paddack was going to be arb eligible for the very first time after 2021 no matter what. The question was is he arb eligible a fourth time after 2024 or is he a free agent outright at that point?
Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 fall between 2 and 3?
No. The Padres still didn’t manipulate Paddack’s service time. Service time manipulation is when you fall a hair below either the full year threshold or the Super Two threshold. Not a hair above it. Paddack was a hair above the full year threshold and was nowhere near the Super Two threshold.
Does 1 and 1 fall between 2 and 3? Are you smarter than a 5th grader question.
So two of 56. Come on, you can do better than that. At least TRY to defend your premise. Or are you Ryan?
Gwynning, “How” is Ryan. Don’t waste your time. He will always have an exception or spin and facts don’t matter. He will change his premise on a dime once you prove him wrong. You have watched him do that on multiple accounts for years. Same MO. Same guy.
Paddack started the season and finished the season in the majors and never pitched an inning in the minors in 2019.
Lol pads fans running scurred.
Must be Tampax pads fans
The Padres didn’t manipulate Paddack’s service time. Or anyone else’s.
So you accuse me of being Ryan and then you accuse tabled of being Ryan even though tabled has spent all day bashing his head against his keyboard attempting in vain to argue with me?
For Paddack to accrue enough time to be a Super Two after 2020 he’d have had to make his debut in 2018, that just wasn’t happening. The 2021-22 offseason was always going to be the offseason that Paddack would be Arb-1 eligible regardless of whether or not they manipulated his service time and that’s exactly what happened. The only question was does he get a 4th arb year after 2024 or is he a free agent outright at that point?
Another joker who tries to argue about Super Two status without even knowing what it means, lol.
Does 1+1 fall between 2 and 3. Are you smarter than a 5th grader
Does 1+1 fall between 2and 3. Simple yes or no. 5th grader can answer this question.
Does 1+1 fall between 2 and 3. It’s a simple yes or no question. 9 year olds can answer it.
Says the elementary school drop out that can’t answer if 1+1 falls between 2 and 3.
I don’t answer irrelevant questions. The Padres didn’t manipulate Chris Paddack’s service time. Deal with it.
So you can’t answer a 5th grade question.
“Reading is hard math is hard”
I know I know. Why the education system needs reformed immensely in America. It’s not your fault.
Anyways they did. And have with others. No if ands or buts about it. They did. Your refusal or inability not sure which to answer a 5th grade question proves they did.
No, there’s just no reason for me to indulge your strawmanning.
And the Padres did not manipulate Paddack’s service time. Or anyone else’s. If they had he would have finished 2019 with under a full year of service time. Not at or over a full year. No ifs, ands or buts about it as you would say.
“I don’t like that your question undermines my whole argument”
Well that sucks. Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 land between 2 and 3?
They did. Same way they manipulated others. You even proved such. Didn’t even know you did.
Early in prellers career he had a habit of calling up top prospects towards end of the season. Or sooner. Later in his career he stopped doing that.
You’ll see it with someone like hunter renfroe early in prellers career. As years went by he stopped those late season call ups in August/September that he once did.
Wonder why? Service time manipulation.
“But Preller doesn’t service time manipulation”
Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 land between 2 and 3?
Why’d preller stop calling up top prospects like he did early in his career?
@tabled Hey little buddy the Chewbacca defense is my thing!
Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 land between 2 and 3?
Why’d preller stop calling up top prospects?
Are you smarter than a 5th grader?
Cmon chef. Kyle Cartmen Stan can answer this one. Even Kenny and he’s poor.
Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 land between 2 and 3?
So he did do it. Stopped doing it. But that means he doesn’t service time manipulate
Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 land between 2 and 3?
Why’d preller stop calling up top prospects a season prior?
Why’d you drop out of elementary school?
“Preller doesn’t service time manipulate”
He did. Early in his career he would call up guys in August in September. He no longer does that like he use to esp with top prospects.
“Ok he did but he stopped so he doesn’t”
Ok but he did
“Well your facts are stupid”
So he did do it. Stopped doing it. But that means he doesn’t service time manipulate
Does exactly 1 and exactly 1 land between 2 and 3?
Why’d preller stop calling up top prospects a season prior?
Why’d you drop out of elementary school?
He did.
He stopped the call ups a season prior.
Did it early in his career no longer does it.
Man you’re handling being wrong well. Loving it again.
He did. Facts prove such.
You named them already paddack who warranted a call up in 2018. Wasn’t given such until 2019.
Tatis jr warranted a called up in 2018 too. Wasn’t given one until 2019.
Renfroe warranted a call up in 2016 got one
Damn. Two examples
Named two. Guess you aren’t smarter than a 6 grader lmao. Damn that back fired on you real quick. Loving it.
Spin you right round baby right round like a record baby right round right round.
So he did use to call up prospects that warranted call up
Stopped doing such with them
And that’s not service time manipulation cause reasons
That’s the “logic” we are going with.
More caps cause you’re upset loving it
Spin you right round baby right round like a record baby right round right round.
So he use to call people up early
Stopped doing that
And that’s not service time manipulation cause reasons
I do say my dear Watson the old folk might have a few screws loose wouldn’t you say.
Named two. Facts hurt. Try some more caps really helps.
Manipulating number of days you accrue is service time manipulation
Letting prospects like renfroe accrue days a year prior while not letting guys like paddack n Tatis jr accrue those days in the same manner is service time manipulation
More caps. That’ll help.
Letting renfroe and others accrue service time prior to their debut but not letting future prospects like Tatis jr and Paddack accrue days in the same manner is service time manipulation.
Named two. Try some more caps. They really help you.
Paddack getting 2.0 which doesn’t fall between 2 and 3 years while renfroe getting 2.05 which does fall between 2 and 3 is service time manipulation.
Math is hard.
Paddack getting 2.0 which doesn’t fall between 2 and 3 years while renfroe getting 2.05 which does fall between 2 and 3 is service time manipulation.
Math is hard.
See you claimed you knew the super two status well. But obviously you didn’t. Cause had you actually understood it the 22% is arbitrary it’s not a concrete number.
Preller stopped calling up guys early like renfroe cause that 22% could have been a super low number like 2.02 2.03 2.05 depending where it fell. Hence why he stopped calling up guys early cause calling up guys August September could risk future control. Hence service time manipulation by ensuring they received 2 years and the 22% was never in play despite Tatis and paddock both warranting a call up in 2018.
Man. You got exposed as a fraud. Loving it
Right so he didn’t called up paddock and Tatis jr in 2018 which affected the 22% for super two status and that’s not service time manipulation despite both obliterating the minors. Sure Jan.
There’s a reason Preller stopped calling up top prospects a season prior late in the year. So 22% wouldn’t be a factor. Even if they warranted a call up.
Huh guess “does 1+1 land between 2 and 3” actually was a legit question. Damn even a 5th grader could see where that was going.
So he use to call guys up early
Doesn’t anymore
And that’s not service time manipulation cause “logic”
You’re not too bright are you?
Few fries short of a happy meal XD
One can short of a 6 pack XD
Few screws loose XD
Red headed step child treatment :^(
Dullest tool in the shed XD
Which is higher 2.0 or 2.05?
Your math skills are subpar XD
So Tatis strikes out a lot no call up. Renfroe strikes out a lot call up. Sure Jan.
My favorite part about this is I’m literally exposing you as a fraud figuratively pantsing you in the comment section giving you wedgies and you’re acting like you pulled your pants down willingly and gave yourself a swirlie. Lmao it’s awesome
You got exposed not knowing how the 22% works being arbitrary
You got exposed not knowing preller use to call up guys but stopped stop the 22% wouldn’t trigger
You obviously don’t know 1+1 is 2 which is head scratcher but 2 is not between 2 and 3. And that any number between 2 and 3 risked triggering super two which is why Preller stopped calling up players like he use to
And you’re argument is
He use to call up players, he stopped, and it’s not service time manipulation but it does affect accrued days for players. Sure Jan.
So again. Which number is bigger 2 or 2.05
What’s even better is I’ll forget about this conversation in like a day or 2. Cause it’s low value to me. Good source of entertainment for me currently. Nothing good on tv
But you’ll obsess over it for days weeks months years eating away at you little by little every time you see my username. And you’ll bring it up sometime in the future when rest of us completely forgot about it.
Which is great. Tells you who the winner is 🙂
@My how. Playing the “this conversation means nothing to me” card after 1040 responses (mostly intentional nothingness) is a bit fetched far. Apparently, we live in a time when few can wear it when they’ve worn it.
Or you are entirely bored and can’t think of better things to do, which is worse.
Not they them it he she her him
Sounds like you get into arguments with a lot of people. Common denominator is you cupcake. Sounds like you’re disliked by many people on here. I can tell why.
Lmao more caps for no reason.
Ringworm disliked? Not at all, I don’t always agree with the style of all of his takes especially when he’s intentionally playing on fools, but appreciate his experience, usually constructive skepticism and awareness of the “GM” part of the game.
The conversation was a good source of entertainment for me.
Watching a grown man, i assume, using caps cause he’s getting upset about a conversation with a random stranger on the internet is hilarious. His superiority complex and small man syndrome were equally hilarious.
Like I said. Nothing good on tv. People are the ultimare source of entertainent. Especially people easily triggered into emotional meltdowns.
Now he’s getting paranoid having comment thread war flash backs with other users. So it just keeps getting funnier and funnier.
Idle hands are the devils playground.
Your reactions were/are a good source of entertainment for me.
Using caps unnecessarily cause you’re getting flustered upset emotional
Little man syndrome needing to be right correct and if you feel you aren’t you can’t handle it
And now you’re paranoid having comment section flash backs with other users lmao. Knew it. Called you like a peg.
They did manipulate his service time
You proved such
Thanks for confirming.
Maybe more caps will help you.
Sounds like you get played quite often. Speaking from personal experience arent you.
I appreciate his
unnecessary use of caps
emotionally driven responses
little man syndrome
him being paranoid
such great qualities
From the additional flurries above Turns, sounds like there’s still nothing on tv for you today?
If Im being honest
Currently at work
Our team finished our project weeks in advanced ahead of schedule and cant start the next portion until others finish their jobs, pros and cons of being salaried.
Alternating between this, picking parlays, social media, and house hunting.
You know what they say though
Bored of being bored because being bored is boring.
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it DOES. NOT. MAKE. SENSE! I am NOT. MAKING. ANY. SENSE! And if I’m not making any sense, then you must acquit!
Tatis Jr Paddack refusing to call them up in 2018. Named two.
When you call up players like Renfroe and let them accrue days but dont let Paddack and Tatis Jr do the same thing as to avoid the 22% trigger in super two status its service time manipulation.
Your refusal to accept facts is both hilarious and one the qualities i love about you in addition to your turrets like need to use caps, emotionally unstable little man syndrome, and paranoid tendencies.
trifecta ladies. winner winner syringe dinner in the looney bin.
Digging deeper
Early in his career Preller authorized plenty of early call ups from 2014-2018 for top prospects a season prior to them being given a long extended look.
Hunter Renfroe, Corey Spangenberg, Travis Jankowsi, Carlos Asjuaje, Francisco Mejia, Casey Kelly in 2015, Colin Rea,
Then in 2019 his methodology changed. He suddenly stopped giving those top prospects the same call up opprtunity previous call ups received.
Probably because at some point him calling up someone too early came too close to super two status cause 22% is arbitary based on how many days others have, but thats a guess on my part as to what changed.
Either way
Top prospects were once given chances to be called up early a year prior. He no longer operates under that belief.
So while Renfroe, Rea Spangenberg, Jankowski, etc were given a chance to receive super two status, others werent.
When you deliberately limit players to achieving only 1 year of service time and don’t give them opportunities for super two status we call that service time manipuation.
TLDR: facts say youre wrong. always have always will.
I’ve never seen somebody be more wrong than turns/tabled but have them insist on themselves being right. Unbelievable takes turns! You’re wrong on ALL accounts. Quite funny!
Batdad did the right thing
Padres play baseball with as much enthusiasm as South Park does.
Check please, Gwynning and family are out! Deuces
Padres play ball like a girl!
You’re screaming into a void, Fernie. He was trolling the whole time. And I guarantee you he’s unemployed, and more than likely living in his mom’s basement. Stay classy San Diego!
Day late dollar short
Knew you’d obsess over the convo XD
Still obsessed I see XD loving it
At work, I get a ping I respond
At home playing solitare I get a ping I respond
Thats how alerts work
Wake up, see alerts of emails that came in respond.
Yeah, alerts full days after conversation is dead. Sure jan. Totally believable you reply full days later cause alerts XD.
Oh, ooh, whoa, oh, whoa
why you’re so obsessed with me.
Its ok if you like the abuse.
Dude doesnt know how 22% works for super two status
Dude cant explain why preller use to call up top prospects early in his career 2014-2018 but stopped doing that practice
Dude doesnt know how alerts work
Dude doesnt know comments are time stamped
Responded to a comment full 13 hours later. Cause hes obsessed with me XD but sure alerts totally alerts 13 hours later lmao meaning you waited allllllllll day obsessing over it lmao
Sir. Time stamps exist. 13 hours is quite the obsession with this conversation. Especially since it was an am to pm change.
It’s alright. Your ego can’t handle losing. So no matter how many days weeks months pass you’ll obsess over any conversation that hurts your ego, like this one for some odd reason.
How can I forget about a conversation you keep replying to lmao?
“I keep responding to you why haven’t you forgotten about the convo?”
Yeah real tough one there Sherlock.
“I know how time stamps work”
Apparently not since 13 hours am to pm is a long time to think about a conversation that’s been running thru your mind all day. We call that an obsession if you’re thinking about things for that long. Not healthy.
“I know how alerts work”
Apparently not. I get dings that you’re obsessing over the convo and respond to the dings. It doesn’t ding no sense in responding. What am I gonna do? Wait 13 hours to respond and revive a dying convo? Psh what loser does that. Oh sorry.
“I know how super two status works and 22%”
Still can’t explain why preller use to call up top prospects from 2014-2018 but stopped doing that practice. Still waiting.
I can see why your ego is hurt.
I for one thing it’s sweet you spent all day thinking of me. 13 hours am to pm is a long time. XD
“Why can’t I quit you”
Idk blazing saddles idk.
13 hours is a long time to obsess over a comment section.
Takes 10 hours to fly from Honolulu to New York.
Start your day with a comment in the am, obsess over it all day for 13 hours, reply when you can after getting off work from your sanitation engineer job. That’s dedication right there.
Cause Harrison Butker is a gd national treasure that’s why
Did we just become brothers?
Wanna go do karate in the garage?
Wanna start a business together called prestige world wide
He does. Preventing players from triggering 22% by only allowing them to accumulate 1 year at a time is service time manipulation so super two status doesn’t trigger. 2 doesn’t exist between 2 and 3.
Now on to more important things. Wanna help me plan the Catalina wine mixer party? I need a chef who can play drums while I sing
He does
Ok I get it Catalina wine mixer is too big of an event I get it not everyone can handle the pressure the moment
How about something more your speed
Do you wanna build a snowman?
Come on let’s go and play
I never see you any more
Come out the door
It’s like you’ve gone away!
We used to be best buddies
And now we’re not
I wish you would tell me why
Do you wanna build a snowman?
It doesn’t have to be a snowman
Awe you don’t wanna build a snow man? Well that’s just mean
You’re a mean one
You really are a heel
You’re as cuddly as a cactus
You’re as charming as an eel
Mr. Grinch, you’re a bad banana
Mr. Grinch, with the greasy black peel
You’re a vile one
You got termites in your smile
You have all the tender sweetness
Of a seasick crocodile
Mr. Grinch
You’re a foul one
Friends you don’t have none
I wouldn’t touch you with a 39-and-a-half foot pole!
He does.
So you do wanna build a snow man?
Make up your mind already. Like riding a crazy train
Life’s a bitter shame
I’m going off the rails on a crazy train
I’m going off the rails on a crazy train
Let’s go
I’ve listened to preachers
I’ve listened to fools
I’ve watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role
Tatis Jr wasn’t given the chance to accrue services days that could potentially trigger super two status the same way previous prospects were in refroe spangenberg jankowski rea Urias who accrued service days a year prior.
Renfroe having more service time after his rookie season than Tatis jr after his rookie season is proof Preller does manipulate service time.
So where are we on building a snow man?
You said “nope!” When I asked you twice about building a snow man but now I feel like you changed your mind to yes. So where are we on building a snow man
Yes
No
Maybe
Renfroe having more service time after his rookie season than Tatis jr after his rookie season is proof Preller does manipulate service time. If he didn’t then all prospects would have the same amount of service time under his tenure. They don’t. Proving he manipulates it which is why renfroe ended with more than Tatis jr after their respective rookie seasons
22% is an arbitrary number that is dependent on a group of people and their service time. Hence why it varies year to year and it not a set number. Renfroe could have achieved super status if others had similar service time from other organizations. 2.05 falls between the 2 and 3 criteria
On the other hand Tatis jr had 0 chance to achieve super two because 2 years doesn’t fall between 2 and 3
So about snow man? Why the nope! For building a snow man?
“ Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
Well I hate to see you leave but don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya friend!
Goodbye, my dearest
Toodle-o
Au revoir
Auf Wiedersehen
Ciao.
Ding dow dai
“ “ Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
You already referred to yourself as a defeated male and announced you were leaving. Sorry man. No takesie backsies. Don’t be an Indian giver.
Best part is you admitting you were defeated means I don’t need to argue my point anymore. You admitted you were defeated making me the victor. Love it. Sorry you had to lose but better luck next time brother.
“Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
You did. I’m literally quoting what you said
You referred to yourself as “defeated male” and announced you were going to “leaves” even made a handy dandy direction arrow showing you exiting stage right.
Right there in blank and white writing. Can’t deny it cause you wrote it
We are the champions, my friends
And we’ll keep on fighting till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
‘Cause we are the champions of the World
“Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
Look defeated male, I assume that’s your pronouns now, if you want to leaves leaves nobody stopping you
“Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
Quite the name you gave yourself defeated male XD. Defeated male refers to you cause they’re your pronouns now obviously.
I actually did forget what the original point of the convo was until you reminded me. I was too busy thinking of step brother frozen grinch references I forgot what we were even discussing
Again why are speaking about yourself in third person defeated male?
Well you did say
“Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
Which is also third person referring to yourself leaving
Why are you telling yourself to leave in third person defeated male?
Is defeated male your Indian name? Can mine be hunting dog?
Why are you trying to give me a phishing link defeated male?
Not clicking your malware links defeated male. Don’t be a sore loser.
I’m not the one posting malicious links defeated male.
First you tell yourself to leaves and walk away in their third person
Now you want me to log off
Make up your mind for once
Havent disproven a single thing I said.
I see what the issue is. I have a lot of free time at work and you’re jealous cause you pursued a degree you couldn’t pay back and are stuck at a dead end job making minimum wage. Sorry man. I made better life choices than you. My advice would be learn to code. That’s how I got where I am. I can refer you to some awesome code camps if you want. Also pick coding in the pharmaceutical field. Very underrated and lucrative.
Well offer still stands friend. You can always earn more than minimum wage. You don’t have to stay stuck at a dead end job.
If you want some coding camp references that can help I’d be more than happy to refer you to some.
I haven’t bragged about my job at all.
You don’t actually know what I do for a living other than i know how to code which I just recently mentioned.
All you know is I’m salaried and I’m bored cause I currently have a lot of down time at work.
Thats not exactly bragging friend
Bragging would be mentioning how much I make, what kind of car / living arrangement I can afford, trips I may or may not have taken, benefits my job may or may not award me, etc etc. that’s bragging
Saying i make a salary and I’m currently bored at work next few weeks isn’t much to brag about
That im on this website a lot cause im bored at work and have down time cause I’m salary not hourly? I openly admitted that lmao.
You sure you know the definition of bragging? Cause all I did was give context to why I’m on here a lot lmao. Honest context
Think the truth? Yeah how devious and evil of me muahahahaha. All part of my evil plan to brag about my job with salary and down time. Cause nobody in history of ever has been bored at work goofing off. Nope I’m the first to ever think it and do it.
Not clicking your malware links defeated male.
That’s what you want us to think XD
Why do you keep telling yourself to leave in third person?
Why are you always telling yourself to leave in third person?
“ Defeated male leaves
—————————————–>”
“Walk away defeated male”
“Log off defeated male”
What’s with referring to yourself in third person?
So you want us to both log off now?
Make up your mind crazy
So you confirm your name for yourself is defeated male and your name for me is bud. Thanks for confirming that
You refer to yourself as defeated male and refer to me as bud.
Idk why you picked those names but you do you defeated male. I’ll do my best to respect your preferred pronouns.
Respecting your preferred pronouns is no joke defeated male.
Now please respect mine. Hunting Dog.
Jokes are usually funny. You’re not very funny defeated male. Maybe funny looking.
No thanks on your malware link defeated male.
No thanks on your malware defeated male.
Again giving yourself advice in third person. Did you take your meds today friend?
What material? You willingly called yourself defeated male, said you were going to leaves, pointed towards an imaginary door I assume. I’m just respecting your preferred pronouns defeated male.
Are pronouns a joke to you? Well that’s bigoted and transphobic of you if that’s the case.
You did
You said
“Defeated male leaves
—————————>”
You chose to call yourself defeated male. Said you were gonna leaves. And pointed towards an imaginary door I assume
Never said I’d leave the conversation. I did say I’d forget about it in a day or two. I did forget about what we were originally arguing over. So that part was true. I did forget the point of the conversation.
Well don’t be bigoted and transphobic then. I’m doing my best to respect your preferred pronouns defeated male.
Oh yeah that’s what we were talking about. Obviously mattered more to you than to me.
You already claimed to be defeated male. Now you don’t like the pronouns you chose for yourself. Make up your mind.
Why are you referring to yourself in third person again defeated male? Make up your mind. Leave stay.
“Defeated male leaves
———————>”
“Walk away defeated male”
“Log off defeated male”
Lmao why do you continue to talk to yourself in third person, tell yourself to leave, and then don’t leave. Definition of insanity.
You chose to call yourself defeated male not me. I’m just respecting your preferred pronouns. I’m also highlighting examples of where you’re referring to yourself in third person telling yourself to leave walk away log off but you don’t.
But now I’m wondering if your exhibiting a new mental disorder called defeated male syndrome- when someone can’t make up their mind whether to stay or leave a situation and becomes so disassociated with the situation they refer to themselves in third person.
Well you should probably bring this new psychosis up with your doctor next time you see them defeated male.
You referred to yourself as defeated name
You ranted about something then decided to call yourself defeated male and said
“Defeated male leaves
————————>”
I don’t identify as male or female. So you were obviously talking about yourself this whole time.
I like how you’re deflecting from calling yourself defeated male this entire time since I don’t identify as male or female. It’s ok you chose the name defeated male for yourself.
Wasn’t wrong at all. You never debunked the fact renfroe ended his rookie season with more service than (more than a year) vs Tatis jr after his rookie season (exactly 1 year).
Letting prospects have a chance at super 2 and then denying prospects a chance at super 2 is service time manipulation :^) defeated male.
Letting prospects have a chance to earn super two status early in your career then denying prospects later in your career the same chance is service time manipulation. Sorry to burst your bubble there defeated male :^).
They did. Renfroe was called up prior to his rookie campaign. After his first two years he had more than 2 years of service time. Depending how others service time played out (22%) renfroe could have been given super two status cause he met the criteria of more than 2 but less than 3 years.
I get why Preller stopped calling them up early and letting them get more than 2 full years of service time. But fact remains he use to call up prospects and many guys had more than 2 years of service time. Guys now a days don’t and wind up with exactly 2 which disqualifies them immediately from super two.
He did. He called up plenty of prospects and many prospects had more than 2 years after their 2nd season. That allowed them the chance to qualify for super two depending how the 22% played out.
If your service time falls between 2 and 3 years you have a chance depending how the 22% plays out. 22% is arbitrary and not a set number.
If you don’t allow players to have more than 2 years only exactly 2 there’s 0 chance they’ll qualify for super two.
Again 22% is arbitrary.
Long as you have service time between 2 and 3 years you have a chance. That chance is dependent upon the 22%.
But. If you only allow your prospects to earn 2 full years after 2 years there’s 0 chance. The 22% doesn’t matter cause they don’t meet the between 2 and 3 years criteria.
So yes. If you allow prospects a chance to earn super two status early in your career but then completely stop prospects from having any chance (0 chance) to earn it it’s service time manipulation.
When you call prospects up prior to their first full year and allow them to get service time bigger than 2 years but less than 3 years they have a chance to accrue super two.
Them not getting it doesn’t matter. They still had a chance. A chance however big or small is still a chance and possible outcome.
When you stop calling prospects up like that and don’t allow them to go past 2 full years of service time you turn any chance into 0 chance since they don’t meet the 2-3 year criteria. You eliminate the possibility of super two all together.
Thats called service time manipulation.
Look at that you’ve been wrong this entire time lmao
All that ego hubris and you’re getting owned by facts.
Chance is still a chance however big or small the outcome is. Math is still hard for you I see.
Eliminating that outcome by not calling up prospects the same way you use to is service time manipulation.
Let’s put it this way. NBA teams have a chance to earn the 1st overall pick in the nba draft. #15 has like .0000001% or something idk the exact number. But it’s still a possible outcome. #16 has 0 chance cause it’s a playoff team and they don’t qualify for the lottery.
It’s actually still a chance. Long as it’s a possible outcome it still has a theoretical chance to occur.
But when you don’t allow people to meet the criteria the theoretical chance goes to 0 for that outcome eliminating it completely
So yes they had a chance however big or small it was and now they don’t.
Don’t worry. Probability and outcomes are hard for people. Why a lot of people are really bad at card games.
It was a possible outcome. They met the 2-3 year criteria. The 22% was arbitrary and always has been. Long as it’s arbitrary and not known until seasons end they have a chance until it’s determined they didn’t qualify. We only know who qualified and who doesn’t at seasons end once the 22% is determined.
When you stop calling guys up all together and don’t let them meet 2-3 year criteria the outcome isn’t possible anymore.
It is a possible outcome.
If you have between 2-3 years service time you have a chance at at super two status depending on the 22% outcome. However big or small you have a chance since 22% isn’t determined until end of the season.
If you don’t have 2-3 years of service time you don’t have a chance at all at super two.
It is a possible outcome.
If you have between 2-3 years service time you have a chance at at super two status depending on the 22% outcome. However big or small you have a chance since 22% isn’t determined until end of the season.
If you don’t have 2-3 years of service time you don’t have a chance at all at super two.
Its a possible outcome
If you meet the between 2-3 year criteria you have a chance however big or small
If you don’t meet the between 2-3 year criteria you have 0% chance.
It’s a possible outcome
2-3 years you have a chance
Not 2-3 years no chance
2-3 years service time it’s a possible outcome
Not 2-3 years service time not a possible outcome
Well least you admit between 2-3 years of service time you have a chance at super two however big or small but if you only hit 2 years you don’t have a chance at all. Step in the right direction.
You stopped denying it in your last comment. So you gave up that argument.
Anywho.
Someone said Preller doesn’t manipulate service time I was able to prove he does manipulate service time. Discussion is really over at this point.
Cause I achieved the point of the convo proving preller manipulates service time by the fact he use to call up prospects and allow them accrue between 2-3 years of service time which had a chance to give them super two depending on 22% outcome but stopped doing that practice only allowing prospects to achieve 2 full years which disqualifies them from a chance to earn super two.
Point of convo was whether Preller did or did not manipulate service time.
I was able to prove such and prove he does simply by the fact he use to call up prospect and allow them to accrue 2-3 years of service time which had a chance to trigger super two depending how 22% played out but no longer allows prospects the chance at super two only limiting them to 2 full years.
Proved it.
I did. You can either accept it or deny it. But reality is I proved Preller manipulates service time by Preller manipulating the between 2-3 rule portion of super two status.
Yes I did.
I was able to prove Preller manipulates service time by exploring the between 2-3 rule of super two status.
Proved the point of the conversation. Reached the end goal.
You can accept it or deny it defeated male
Point is i proved it by highlighting Preller exploiting the between 2-3 super two status rule.
“ Until you address that issue nothing else you say matters.”
Well that’s not true. You’re gonna keep replying like it matters 🙂
“ Until you address that issue nothing else you say matters.”
Couldn’t go 30 minutes XD
“ Until you address that issue nothing else you say matters.”
So what I say matters now? Well alright
I was able to prove Preller manipulates service time by exploiting the between 2-3 year rule of super two status. Proving he does ends the conversation
You have a stroke there at the end man? You alright lmao? dfd?
What’s dfd lmao?
Yeah already told you I don’t identify as male or female so way to expose your bigotry and transphobia
What’s dfd?
Yeah show the world your bigotry and transphobia. I don’t identify as male or female.
What’s dfd lmao
Yes you are. Very much so. Someone tells you their pronouns you respect them. Bigots and transphobes like you apparently can’t handle that
What’s dfd mean did you have a stroke
What’s dfd is it like an acronym or a sound
Dfd. Data flow diagram?
Dfd. Device free dinner?
Haven’t seen a single thing you’ve linked all day
So you’re saying there’s a chance and proved there’s a chance lmao. Nice job :^)
FYI
1 in 4.55 quadrillion years =\= 0
Huh thanks for proving me correct. They had a chance, however big or small, to achieve super two status since they qualified with between 2-3 years of service time but since preller no longer allows players to earn more than 2 years they have a 0% chance of achieving super two status.
You invested all that time research and energy into proving me correct lmao XD
It’s pretty hilarious alright
You invested a lot of time research energy into running a statistical test just to wind up proving my assertions correct :^)
That preller allowed players to have the chance (however big or small the chance is, 1 in 4.55 quadrillion years for renfroe is small but still not 0) to achieve super two status by allowing them to accumulate more than 2 years of service time
He changed philosophies and no longer allows players to earn more than 2 years of service time which disqualifies them from having a chance at super two status, 0% chance they’d achieve it.
Still can’t believe you just proved my assertions correct thanks buddy XD
Chance is still a chance however big or small buddy.
Well as a stage 4 cancer survivior who was given less than .001% chance which is smaller than 1 I’m glad I still had a chance.
Chance is still a chance. So tell me Jim. What made you read thru a week old post 300 comments deep?
So you randomly show up to random week old posts read thru 300 something comments?
Man I’m not even that bored.
Well this was an a b conversation Jim so c your way out. I’ll wait for Fernando to return. He was much more entertaining.
Huh that’s weird
Hey Jim where’d Fernando’s comments go
You aren’t Fernando are you using another account cause you got suspended banned?
Uh huh
So comments go down almost like 100 removed
Fernando’s comments just disappear like they never happened
And you show up out of the blue while his comments disappear defending his old comments that no longer exist.
Sure Jim sure. Looking kinda phishy for you like you’re Fernando.
If you got your account banned dude don’t log in to another account and give yourself away.
Least I’m honest and upfront about being bored at work and in life. How many accounts do you have?
I actually am. That part is true. After the new year I won’t be cause the engineering team should be done with the prototype we will need to program but our side is ready to go and has been last couple weeks. Again salary. Whether it takes me 100 hours or 10 hours to do my job I get paid the same.
Believe what you want. It’s the truth regardless how you feel. How you feel doesn’t change reality.
Reading is still hard for you huh. Project isn’t finished. But not much my team can do until others complete their portion of the process. Kind of like how in house building electrical plumbing trades can’t do their jobs until the house is actually you know built. That’s the best analogy I can come up with to describe how my job right now. Waiting for the house to be built so I can install the electrical portion.
Math is hard for you. Reading is hard for you. Like common man basic life skills
Well. Try not to get anymore accounts banned. Better be on your best behavior. Santa’s watching.
Yeah I do know Santa is watching. He’s making a list and checking it twice. Figuring out who’s naughty and nice.
Honest question though just for my future knowledge. How do you know if your account is actually banned?
Do they do like a warning shadow ban thing for a couple days or do they just nix your account and comments? How come some of your comments are still up but not others?
Terms of service usually don’t involve math but alright.
You’re right it does. And all that math you did proved my assertions correct that a chance existed for renfroe to achieve super two status however big or small the chance is cause 1/anything =\= 0
you can get infinitely close to 0 as much as you want but you’ll never touch it never equal it.
So ty again for mathematically proving my assertion that chance existed big or small renfroe could receive super status.
I claimed it
You mathematically proved it
That’s fking team work son
You can feel that way.
You’d be wrong since mlb stopped expanding mlb rosters for the 2022 season meaning 2014-2021 under prellers as gm September call ups were allowed
While renfroe was allowed a September call up Tatis jr was not granted that same chance in 2018 despite being allowed since September call up were still allowed and more than deserving of a chance
Whatever helps you sleep at night
Being drafted in 2013 hunter renfroe wasnt rule 5 eligible either when he made his debut in 2016.
He didn’t spend 4 full seasons in the minors. His draft year he spent half a season or less only showing up in 43 games between A-, A cause the other half he was playing at Mississippi state in 2013. He was at 3.5
Rule says 4 seasons. He played half a season in a ball in 2013. The other half was at Mississippi state which isn’t an mlb team. Now I know math is hard
2.05 is bigger than 2 but 3.5 is less than 4.
Hey so why are you circumventing a ban Fernando ringworm jr? Isn’t that against the terms of service?
Already for you on record admitting such man remember. I asked you how many alt accounts you had you said just this one
Sure Jim sure. Looking kinda phishy for you like you’re Fernando.
If you got your account banned dude don’t log in to another account and give yourself away.
Least I’m honest and upfront about being bored at work and in life. How many accounts do you have?
ReplyFlag
jimthegoat
November 26, 2024
Just this one.
And you’re not being honest about being “bored at work” lmfao.
It’s ok my friend. We need to make sure you’re adhering to the terms of service.
Also. Bringing up deleted comments referring to statistical tests was a dead give away you’re the same person 🙂
Hey. Tell me about this student test thing.
Well long as you’re not using the same ip address you’ll be alright i suppose. I mean who would do that.
FYI, I never called it a Student’s t-test :^)
Hey Jim
I never referred to it as a Student’s t-test or t-test. Find in page is magical thing :^)
How would you know what kind of test a banned account who’s comments about it were deleted ran :^)
How’d you know it was called a Student’s t-test Jim :^)
I never referred to it as such
The poster who mentioned the test had that post deleted.
How’d you know it’s called a Student’s t-test Jim :^)!
Who the heck is Harrison? XD that was random. Almost as random as your dfd seizure last night
So how did you know it was a student T-test and that “Actually R fails to reject the null hypothesis”
I never mentioned it was a student T test and all relevant information about the test was deleted when the account was banned
The original comment also didn’t mention an r value either I copied and pasted the original comment so looks like you’re circumventing a ban Fernando :^) risk risk tisk tisk
You’re gonna get two accounts banned this week lmao
Well least you’ll have time to come up with some more user names. Enjoy.
Can you repeat that?
So you can’t repeat it? Tons of comments just asking for a simple favor
I was being honest
See when you reply it’s top of the list but if the page refreshes it goes all the way to the bottom of 250 something comments I have to scroll all the way down to. Just easier if you reposted it but whatever helps you sleep at night
I was being honest and i wasnt but hey whatever you need to tell yourself to help you cope.
You weren’t you really didn’t prove anything. You just didn’t know it.
Rule 5 eligibility had 0 bearing on padres calling up renfroe. They could have not called him up and protected him prior to the rule 5 draft in the off season that year.
So rule 5 eligibility didn’t really play a part in their decision to call him up. Preller has also not called up rule 5 eligible guys but later protected them from the rule 5 draft later in the off season.
Womp
Womp
Does rule 5 eligibility mean you have to call up a prospect during September or can you protect them later on in the off season from the rule 5 draft without calling them up?
Does rule 5 eligibility matter when talking about a players time clock starting early?
Does a player being available in rule 5 force teams to start service time early?
If a player may be selected in the rule 5 draft do teams have to play them in September to stop that from happening?
Hypothetical situation: Suppose the angels had a prospect named jack myhoff who is rule 5 eligible after this season.
Do the angels need to play him in September to prevent him from being part of the rule 5 draft?
My question supercedes the importance and order of your question. So please kindly answer first.
See last comment
But I wasn’t wrong. It’s an unimportant detail irrelevant to padres calling up hunter renfroe in September
3.5 is less than 4. We’ve been over this jim
Why do you gotta keep reminding yourself you’re bad at math
Half a year at mississippi state and half a year in the minors
But since we’re drudging up the past
How’d you know it was called a student t-test Jim when I never called it that and the only other comment that called it that was deleted :^)
And how’d you know the exact r value and what it meant for the student T-test without knowing what data the student T test used and that nobody mentioned the r value at any point except you :^)
Actually R fails to reject the null hypothesis, that being the opposite of what you are claiming. So the best you can say is I “failed to disprove” it. – jimthegoat
Sound familiar
R is called r value :^) which a statistical measurement that indicates the strength and direction of the relationship between two variables
R simply R is r value when running a student T test not R coding when you’re discussing statistical outcomes. You thought you did something lmao :^) awe cute
Haven’t disproven me once at any point
Lmao look man just because you copy and paste someone else’s work doesn’t mean you know what’s going on. Thats painfully and hilariously apparent.
Yeah no R is r value when discussing the statistical outcome for the student t test XD
Does being rule 5 eligible affect whether a team calls up a prospect or not?
Anybody else’s statistical work you want to copy and paste and have me analyze for errors in your interpretations?
Why did whoever you copied and pasted from use a T test instead of a Z test?
Does rule 5 eligibility force team to call up prospects early and start service time early?
have my theories
But I asked you first. Why did whoever you copied and pasted from use a T test instead of a Z test. Unless you’re not the know it all you pretend to be :^)
Another follow up question.
Whoever you copied and pasted from how come they used R Coding software instead of more common software like MatLab or SAS/JMP
Well maybe you aren’t the know it all after all. Probably a very humbling experience :^)
See everybody uses a test for their own reasons and uses a program for their own reasons. The person running the statistical test has their own personal reasons why they use t test instead of a z test and a certain program.
The fact you can’t answer those questions is just proof you copy and pasted something in an attempt to sound intelligent but don’t actually have a clue what you’re talking about :^) but we both knew that once you confused R with the coding program instead of the r value of statistical test outcomes.
Does rule 5 eligibility force teams to call up prospects early?
But you can’t answer why the person you copied from chose a T test vs z test for their statistical analysis. They usually tell you why they chose to run the specified test. Unless of course you can’t actually understand their reasons :^) which just adds to an already exhaustive list of things you’ve proven to not understand.
Enjoy that humble pie r value :^).
Apparently not cause their reasons for running a t test are probably different than reasons id do a z test. I would have chose a z test. So I’m curious why they chose a t test. But you’re not able to understand their work or reasons or outcomes so maybe I’m asking the wrong person :^)
Population is bigger than 30 and we know the variance more humble pie :^) enjoy
“Quick google help me sound smarter than I am”
Lmao walked right into that one r value XD.
Ah. I actually know when to use Z test and T test.
You walked right into that one pretty easily r value didn’t take much poking or prodding to do so XD
For someone who thinks they’re more intelligent than you actually are you’d think you would have saw that coming :p
You know. You’d think you’d learn from your past mistakes 0:)
“Those of us who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it” – some Greek guy
Terms of service are a hellva a thing :^)
Do you like green eggs and spam?
Do you like spam and eggs?
Ever try spam musubi?
You’re missing out
Ever indulge in some spam fried rice?
Spam’s so unhealthy I wonder if RFK jr will ban it
Did you hear about the cross-eyed optician?
He could never see eye to eye with his patients.
Did you hear about the Italian chef?
He pasta way.
What kind of shoes do frogs wear? Open toad.
Daaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmn
What does a robot do after a one-night stand? He nuts and bolts.
Grave digger
What animal has the biggest chest?
According to me yes
According to my millennial co worker I told the joke to last week it’s “your mom”
Why was Santa’s helper sad?
Well now you’re just googling them and taking the fun out of it
What goes in hard and comes out soft?
Acceptable answers would be gum or tv dinners
Is it a person entering then leaving an “entertainment” club??
What does the hornee toad say?
Rub-it Rub-it
Cat
Alligator
Guts telling me it might be Egyptian themed inappropriate
Ima go with
“You can’t de-Nile this pussie”
Damn sometimes it’s the obvious answer
What did Cinderella do once she reached the ball?
She gagged
Why didn’t 1 get together with 3?
Nailed it
There is no evidence that “good will with players” has any tangible benefit to a team. Plenty of players have signed team friendly extensions after having their service times manipulated. Like Ronald Acuña Jr. and Buster Posey.
But signing a team friendly contract isn’t evidence to the contrary, either. We need Karl Popper to settle this one.
The rules are nonsense thats for sure. But do the Padres really need a reward on top of the performance they got out of Merrill? And do the Pirates really need an extra pick because Skenes is so good?
It’s all messed up.
Do the Cardinals need a competitive balance pick?
Not sure what the Cardinals have to do with anything. They don’t get a pick so….
The answer is yes.
Pirates weren’t “screwed,” they were rightly denied the reward because they didn’t follow the incentive. Call your MLB-ready prospects up.
He was just drafted the year prior. How do they really know he’s major league ready until he does what he does in early 2024?
Skenes had thrown 6 minor league innings.
They were always going to prioritize development and limit his innings. I don’t have a problem with what they did at all. If you’re good enough to win the ROY playing half the games then the team ought to get a pick IMO. But I understand the rationale when the rule was set to try to get more guys up early.
We’ll see what adjustments are made next time the 2 sides come to the table.
Call your MLB-ready prospects up.
=======================
Before 2024, Skenes had 6.2 minor league innings. Just on an observational basis, I am guessing that 75% of prospects get called up too early.
Not a fan of the every day player not winning the award over a SP that was only around for 2/3 of the year – meaning 1 out of 5 days for 2/3 of season he was available to do his thing.
Agreed.
It has to be thought of in terms of PAs, not games. Position players only get 4-5 PAs a game. An SP, even though he only plays every 5th day, might get 25-30 PAs in that one game.
Position players play a position. They are involved in many more plays per game.
A pitcher gets 20-25 batters faced per game and only gets one game every 5 games.
Skenes faced 514 batters in 23 starts so he averaged 23.34 batters faced per game.
A position player gets 4-5 PA per game so 20-25 every 5 games.
Merrill had 593 PA. He also had 403 defensive chances he was involved in. 400 resulted in at least one out.
Merrill was involved in FAR more baseball than Skenes. Its not close.
But East Coast writers rarely saw him play. By the time 106 of their games started it was 10 pm on the East Coast. That doesn’t include the games in Korea.
Uhh how many pitches was Merrill involved in? You don’t consider the 80-95 pitches thrown as being involved in baseball? Turn off the internet and go eat your supper. Your arguments are getting worse and worse
There are stupid people, there are jerks, and then there are guys like Tjeck that make those stupid people look smart and simultaneously make the jerks look nice.
You should write hallmark greeting cards. That was some deep stuff wasted on a trade rumors board
I would buy such a card, if it quoted exactly what web just said
Stupid people buy stupid things
Oh yeah, an even better quote Tjeck, and would fit on a small card.
Got to keep it short so you can comprehend it
It’s important to know your audience
Why ding him for being a SP? Same nonsense when writers say that a SP can’t be MVP. Best player not best position player. Skenes dominated. Merrill had a very good rookie season but not as special as Skenes. He’s the kind of SP batters fear.
Every 5 days.
Best player only plays 25 out of 162 games so, how “best” is that player in an overall season approach?
You are entitled to your opinion though.
If you’re the best player you’re the best player regardless of position. The SP that dominates over those 25 games has a lot more impact in those games than a position player. Again, the award is for best player.
Because when they do play, they have a significantly greater impact on the game than any position players ever does. The position player’s contribution is spread out over more games, but cumulatively they’re roughly the same.
Longtimecoming
Every 5 days.
========================
But on every 5th day, the SP is involved on every pitch and every play.
But just out of curiosity, would you prefer your team to have the 5 best SPs, or the 5 best position players?
I’d rather have the guy who plays April thru October, not the guy who play June through September
May 11th, but it raises another hypothetical. Would you rather have arguable the best pitcher in BB for 23 starts, or a very good CF for 156 games?
I’d rather have Sale for the full season
JM – the youngest player in the entire history of baseball to hit 5 game winning or tying home runs in the 9th inning or later in the same season.
I’m not aware of Skenes doing anything that has never been done before by another SP. Well, maybe except for Olivia.
Silver Slugger (voted on by managers), AS.
Can’t really say he wasn’t capable of impacting the game.
That is a specious argument and you know it. Once you were shown that your argument was in fact BS, you tried to spin to every pitch.
Pitchers are not involved in every play because they only are involved in the plays involving 20-24 batters per game.
He wasn’t arguably the best pitcher in baseball. That fact has been established beyond a shadow of a doubt.
That was just on offense. He had 4 game saving catches in the 8th or 9th inning.
Well, JM just got more MVP votes than PS. There is that for a statement as rating value.
Skenes was amazing and he’s the best pitching prospect we’ve seen in a long time. Different talent. Anyone discrediting him is a clown.
If this is to me, I haven’t discredited him. I agree that he was awesome. My issue is with a guy being awesome at what he does for 20 ish games being favored over a guy that was awesome at what he does for 150 ish games.
It had nothing to do with Skenes or Merrill personally. I said the same on the AL post and I’ve felt the same for many years.
I wish Skenes and Pirates the best unless they are playing my team.
It had nothing to do with Skenes or Merrill personally.
==========================
Would you trade Merrill straight-up for Skenes? Abreu had a pretty good rookie year for the RS. But if I could get two years of Crochet straight-up for Abreu, I’d drive Abreu to Chicago myself.
If I could get Skenes, I’d give you both Anthony (#1) and Abreu, and drive all three guys back and forth.
The ROY award isn’t based upon trade value, but maybe the writers have the same bias as you Joe because Skenes does win that test
A lot of SPs don’t make their full 32-33 starts per season these days as they end up on the IL at least once per season. He was called up later in the season but he dominated. It’s not like he wouldn’t have dominated in the other 10-12 starts. Quantity matters but quality matters even more.
Or he could have gone on the IL after another start. Taking out assumptions, using “quality matters even more”, doesn’t JM stack pretty well with his peers in CF for 2024? Only he was called on every day verses every 6 or sometimes 7.
If the regular didn’t have really strong stats, that is one thing but in the NL anyway for 2024, the regular has strong stats, i.e. quality and quantity.
tms will be alot more cautious with their usage of top prospects. if they had held skenes back a few starts he mighta lost to merrill thus securing that 7th yr of control. they let him throw 133innings, won ROY, thus losing that 7th yr of control. tms will learn from this so they dont follow the same pattern
I think it would have been fine if they just got the darn draft pick. But losing the year of control and not getting the pick is quite stupid and not in the spirit of the rule.
i agree, pirates should still receive the pick if their player wins ROY regardless of when they were called up. there’s alotta ridiculous mlb rules currently
Not surprising at all and well deserved but i feel like maybe MLB should have a ROY award for position players and for Pitchers like the NFL has offensive and defensive ROY awards
That’s how it should be.
Maybe it’s his girlfriend that won him though the award. It’s kind of like the best new artist award in the Grammys. The Cars didn’t win and the band that beat them were around for one whole album.
Just another reason to detach from MLB. When the best don’t win personal awards, it’s a big effing downer.
“Just another reason to detach from MLB.”
I doubt if Jackson even thinks this!
Just like Vanessa Hudgens almost got it for Cole Tucker.
Crikes: It’s tough for Merrill. But hopefully players – especially those early in their careers – aren’t playing for individual awards. Merrill was awesome this season and helped his team get to the NLCS. That has to mean more than winning RoY.
@crikes
the average conspiracy theorist::
I feel bad for Pirates fans. It’ll be a sad day for them when they trade Paul Skenes in 3-4 years and then Jared Jones as well. Maybe Mitch Keller too.
I’m surprised Jackson Merrill didn’t win the NL ROTY
The Bucs extended Brian Reynolds, so not all hope is lost. But if they end up trading Skenes, they need to do it when he has 2 years left. They’d get a bundle back.
Skenes has already earned himself a contract extension that the Pirates have never paid out.
Only way he stays in Pitt post rookie deal is if he unfortunately hurts himself. Strasburg is the only guy who came up in a very long time with comparable talent. Special arm.
They should but they won’t. Look at Cole deal, they favor quantity over quality. I think Musgrove was the only decent player they received in return.
I feel bad for teams that spend hundreds of millions of dollars on their rosters only to watch the WS from home like the Pirates
Congratulations to Skenes on a well deserved honor. It’s a tough class to break in with when Winn can’t make the top three with 4.9 WAR. I’m not complaining; just saying this is a great class of rookies.
Yeah Winn had a really good year but I wouldn’t take him over Skenes. Merrill flip a coin.
I think they got the finalists right. Voters really dig the offense more than defense. This award was always Skenes’ in my opinion.
To your point CardsFan57, it was a great class of rookies
Yes, an outstanding rookie class is good for the game. As baseball fans, we should all be happy about that.
Merrill sure picked the wrong year to debut. Most any other year no doubt, but this year was loaded on the NL.
Anyone else confused by this wording: “placing him tenth among all pitchers in the majors this year, despite tossing fewer innings than everyone ahead of him.” We would expect that outcome (to finish behind those who tossed more innings) so “despite” Is not the word for this context?
If he finishes ahead of 9 guys despite throwing fewer innings, then the context makes sense. Are we on the same page here?
Yeh. “It is notable that Skenes threw fewer innings than all nine players ahead of him” fixes the problem.
Jackson Merrill should have won this. He played a full season in center field and Skenes only played about 2/3 of a season. Skenes is great, but doesn’t deserve this over Merrill.
Teams aren’t going to make the mistake of promoting a kid too early. If you’re not a contender, they will wait until July. That said, it is hard to anticipate Skenes being this good.
While I think this is total BS, it will save the Padres tens of millions of dollars over the next 5 seasons.
Skenes won’t be a Pirate by then.
Soooooo sour. Keep posting.
Are you going to explain how it saved them 10’s of millions?!?
Merrill has earned a full year of service time anyway by virtue of being on the major league roster all year.
Hot air!
Not sure it will be tens of millions like Pads is claiming, but arbitration takes into account awards like ROY and CY. His placing 2nd certainly saved the Padres money.
It also earned him $500,000 as part of the Pre-arbitration bonus pool. Pretty nice bonus for Merrill. I believe he also got $500,000 for being on the All-MLB 2nd team, but players may only get one or the other.
baseballamerica.com/stories/details-from-the-new-2….
Arbitration when he hits will not be influenced by a first or 2nd place ROY finish from 2 seasons prior to the process
Merrill’s bonus is paid out by the league pool funds that everyone contributes to. This move didn’t do much of anything for the Pads. They didn’t get a pick today and that’s about it.
Same story for the O’s and Cowser..
You can think what you want, but this site has published the criteria that are used, and awards are included. The criteria for arbitration are rather old school and include things like BA, RBI, and awards.
Congrats to Skenes! Merrill is also deserving but there can only be one.
This is just the second time in MLB history that both Rookie of the Year winners were starting pitchers. The other time was in 1981’s short season when Fernando Valenzuela and Dave Righetti were the winners.
Wish he pitched for the Tigers.
Skenes looks like everything a young Dwight Gooden once was, Could be even better. Hopefully, he’ll wear the Orange and Blue (e.g. Mets sportswear) some day soon
Gooden was the best I ever saw until the cocaine altered his career.
Jose Fernandez was pretty awesome, too. Fernando Valenzuela….
Gooden finished second for the Cy Young at 19. He won the Cy Young at 20. He was amazing to watch. I’m a Cardinal fan saying this. Back then Mets and Cardinals had a rivalry much more acrimonious than the Cubs/Cardinals rivalry.
Jose Fernandez was a murderer.
Thanks for posting this. Gooden was the best pitcher of all time for a 20 year old. I do remember the Ozzie/John Tudor Cards quite well, as a Mets fan. That was a heck of a rivalry for a few years. I was both looking forward to and fearing Dwight Gooden’s name come up. So amazing and so sad.
Cocaine sucks. So many delightful stars in sports and music done in by that crap.
The top four were all great, but Skenes was electric. What a talent. Congratulations.
They deserve it, but damn…karma hates the Pirates.
They only make the playoffs during the one game wild card era.
They finally have a ROY winner…when it will cost them that player a year sooner.
Honestly, unless they are going to go all in for the next few years, just trade him now. It could be the biggest return in MLB history.
Nah, not yet. You can always finesse his Service Time going forward… (half joking!)
Would be a pretty easy grievance for the MLBPA
And that’s no joke, Fernie!
This is what happens when people get so enamored with a player. Jackson Merrill should have won this award and busted his butt off all year unlike Skenes. Terrible! Absolutely terrible
Really comical that of all the things the Pads fans have to complain about it’s this.
Forget about the millions and millions spent on a roster that choked a 2-0 lead in the playoffs.
Let’s whine and complain about Merrill
@TJECK109
Sit down, boy. This is an article about the Rookie of the Year not the playoffs. Of course Padres fans wanted Merrill to win. They were watching him for 162 games and the guy had the numbers to suggest he should have won.
Yes sir dad.
@TJECK109
I’m not a Padres fan you Dbag. Blowing your wad without taking time to read. Jackass
You shoulda called him TJERK109, Palehoser!
lol. Dude. Taking the time to read? I’ve read every lame post from SD fans.
@TJECK109 You are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Pads weren’t up 2-0. And I didn’t see one Padre fan whining in here… lol
Uh they were up 2 games on LA in the NLDS and lost the next 3
Uh. No they weren’t, factjeck yourself
Uh they were up 2 games on LA in the NLDS
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No, they weren’t. They were down 1-0, then up 2-1, then lost 3-2. I mean, you can look these things up.
I can admit I was wrong. Read the bracket wrong.
See not so hard to admit you are wrong.
and to your credit TJECK. I’m wrong more often than not here
Too bad one of these guys wasn’t in the AL. Any of them would have won there.
Plus this chubby b is ducking down Livvy
Only reason to not give it to Paul is that he is a Pitcher with a couple of quality position players who put in more games. In the end I think they got it right. I find it hard to consider that Paul will be anything less than a true superstar. I am bias though.
Given a another handful of games at similar performance he would possibly be the favorite for the Cy Young. I highly doubt he would win but had Paul played 30 games, I have little doubt Paul would be the favorite to win it. I’d like Paul to get the Cy Young but both Sale and Wheeler put up mostly full seasons with great play too.
Its risky on a pitcher but Ben C. really needs to try to get him on a long term deal assuming there are no red flags health wise. They get him a bit of offense and a bull pen that can hold a 3 run lead he could be a 32 game winner!!!! (/s)
Not sure if I should be happy or sad about this outcome. Merrill doesn’t get a well-deserved honor, but he will be a Padre for a year longer than if he won. Padres don’t get a draft pick, but they don’t lose a year of service time control.
Jackson Merrill accrued a year of service time for being on the big league roster all year anyway……
He wasn’t going to accrue 2 full years of service time for winning the ROY. Not how that works.
I was going to say you were right, but then I realized who you are.
I count 11 active accounts that are yours Ryan. That is a little excessive, even for you.
Jesus not this again. Winning ROY doesn’t give him 2 years of service time. Placing in the top 2 means he gets 1 year of service time regardless of the exact number of days he spent in the majors, but since he started the season in MLB it’s purely academic.
Pirates didn’t get a pick today but they have two more seasons of Paul Skenes to finish top 3 in Cy Young voting.
Health permitting you have a pretty decent shot to net a draft pick that way too.
He is not eligible for that either. Only players who acrue a full year of service in their rookie season are eligible.
You’re right. That double sucks for Pittsburgh since he earned the full year of service for winning the award this year.
I bet he’ll have one of the shortest odds to win a CY next year too…..
Skenes looked great but has only pitched 2/3 of a season. Annoiting him favorite to win CY next year is a slight on some other great pitchers, and maybe a lot to put on Skenes.
That is the PPI initiative working. Pirates hate that he won, they gambled on keeping him down long enough so he doesn’t win and they get to keep the extra year of service time but he did win and now pirates get punished not only not getting a pick but also getting the extra year of service.
Sucks for the pirates but is a good incentive
He’ll be a Dodger by 2028.
His mustache is still Ok for the Yankees standard and Gerrit Cole will be gone!
I don’t like this new system, it’s way too much of a penalty for the Pirates. Its easy to say now that Skenes should have been on the Opening Day roster, but that’s just 20/20 hindsight. I think most clubs would have started him in the minors after just 5.2 professional innings.
Its easy to say now that Skenes should have been on the Opening Day roster
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I wouldn’t agree with that even in hindsight. He had only 6.2 IPs headed into 2024.
Pirates fans waking up today realizing that they not only don’t get a PPI extra draft pick for Skenes winning ROY but they ALSO lose him as a free agent (or have to trade him to Yankees or Astros) ONE YEAR SOONER because he won ROY & gets credit for a FULL SEASON of SERVICE TIME.
SD fans waking up to post pointless bashes against the Pirates and fans over a ROY award.
The one time the Pirates actually stumble onto someone good, they get penalized for it. Man it sucks to be a fan sometimes.
I see three different shades of grey here.
1-Good to see Skenes get rewarded for his contributions.
2-The Pirates kind of were already rewarded by having the overall #1/1.
3-In a perfect world, both the player and the team can get rewarded. If the Pirates received a supplemental #1 or #2, then it would motivate all teams to loosen their grip on the prospects. As it stands now, o team will promote someone in May. It’ll either be Opening Day, or late June.
Looking forward, Anthony starts in AAA. But if he is tearing it up, maybe the RS promote him on 4/30 instead of 5/31 or 6/30.
The Pirates aren’t being penalized. They aren’t being rewarded for doing something they didn’t do. The entire point of the rule was rewarding teams for bringing up top rookies at the start of the season.
But they wanted to develop him properly and had a plan, why get penalized for it? If he started from opening day, they’d have to shut him down or just toss an innings limit out the window and risk injury. In the grand scheme of things, it hardly matters as his skill is most important, but he was already up very quickly for a pitcher.
The Skenes situation is exactly what MLBPeeA was going for with the PPI system. I think a top 2 ROY finish with the player spending all 172 days on the major league roster should also be pick worthy. Not just cuz I’m mad the Padres got screwed out of a pick but it’s not much of an “incentive” for teams to not manipulate service time if the only way they can benefit is from the player taking home the hardware.
Writers will take any excuse not to give an award to a Padre so I can’t say I didn’t expect this. But both Skenes and Merrill had seasons plenty worthy of the hardware. I wonder how much of an effect Livvy Dunne had on the voting?
My last post on this topic.
It’s sad that SD fans have to sit and post about the Pirates losing a year of service on Skenes.
I’ve said it once on this thread and will say it again. Merrill was more than deserving. Heck it would have been better had he won. I think this could cause movement to ROY for batter and pitcher.
But if anyone out there is delusional enough to think that Pirates fans woke up this morning in gloom and doom over the loss of service time it just smacks of your lack of knowledge of Pirates baseball and pirates fans.
If you want to feel sorry for pirates fans, feel sorry for the fact that they have an extremely greedy owner who will never ever consider selling this team.
Don’t feel bad that Skenes will be gone in 3-4 years. Pirates fans already knew he’d be gone the day he was drafted. This is the life of Pirates fans. It’s the reality. The Pirates were barely watchable at times other than when Skenes pitched
So save your smug comments about losing a year of Skenes. We know he will be dealt in 2-3 years for a bunch of lottery tickets as the rebuild process enters year 15 or 16.
I’d love to be in a position to complain about Merrill not winning while having hundreds of millions spent on the talent around him. A team you can confidently feel will have a great chance of winning every game not one every 4 or 5.
OK, bye
Fwiw..not sure if its been mentioned but all due respect to Skenes and his great season he made zero starts a what mlb generally considers regular rest…that helped cap his innings and likey added to his performance vs others grinding on reg rest or playing daily
However you produce 5+ WAR, that’s a great rookie season.
Never said it wasnt..just putting out facts .point is does he have 5 + war pitching on regular rest? We wont till he does it
From now on I’m guessing teams either put their very best prospects on the major league roster to start the season or wait until July to call them up so ROTY isn’t realistically in play for them.
That’s better than making them wait 6 weeks just to get more team control. At least the April or July choice is a clearer statement of whether they were ready at the start of the season to play at the MLB level without consideration of team control.
It’s 2 weeks for the extra year, actually.
Who will have the best career of these three? Skenes, chourio, Merrill?