Speculation regarding a potential offseason trade of Nolan Arenado kicked up the moment president of baseball operations John Mozeliak announced the club would take a step back and focus on player development and that they were beginning a transitional process that would see Chaim Bloom take over as president of baseball operations beginning next offseason. Unsurprisingly, that announcement was quickly followed by reports that the Cardinals indeed planned to gauge the market for interest in Arenado.
Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch now reports that, to no one’s surprise, the Cardinals have spent the early stages of the offseason doing just that. He adds one critical element, writing that Arenado has not specifically asked to be traded. That’s a key wrinkle in the saga, as it differs from the last time Arenado was traded. The then-Rockies third baseman was frustrated in the years following his initial extension in Colorado, as the team hadn’t put together a competitive roster. Given the circumstances leading to his last trade, it was only fair to wonder whether Arenado might waive his no-trade clause to try to facilitate a trade to a team with more of a win-now mentality than the 2025 Cardinals will have. That doesn’t appear to be the case at this time.
It’s still possible, of course, that Arenado could be on the move at some point this winter. While he apparently has not specifically requested a trade, there’s simultaneously no indication that he’s voiced a preference to remain with the Cardinals through their reset period (as teammates Willson Contreras and Sonny Gray, who also have no-trade clauses, reportedly have done). Arenado’s original motivation in pursuing a trade from the Rockies and his decision to forgo the opt-out in his contract following the 2021 season stemmed from a desire to put down roots in a perennially competitive setting.
If the Cards find a deal to their liking that would send him to a clear win-now team, they’d likely present him with the scenario and he’d then have to weigh the merits of approving a deal. But, that’s a far different scenario than Arenado asking to be moved and the pressure that would put on Mozeliak, Bloom and the rest of the front office to find a deal or head into the season with a veteran who’s clearly unhappy to be on the roster.
Arenado, 34 in April, has had consecutive underwhelming seasons at the plate. He’s posted a solid but unremarkable .269/.320/.426 slash (104 wRC+) since Opening Day 2023, striking out in only 15.5% of his plate appearances but also walking at a tepid 6.8% clip. Despite all the accolades he’s amassed in his career, he’s never been a consistent source of premium contact (at least by measure of exit velocity, barrel rate and hard-hit rate). Still, he posted career-low marks in all of those categories this past season, including a particularly light 3.2% barrel rate and 31.2% hard-hit rate.
That said, Arenado remains at least an average hitter with plus bat-to-ball skills and a premium glove at the hot corner. His defensive ratings aren’t as lofty as they were when the six-time Platinum Glove winner was widely regarded as perhaps the best defensive player in Major League Baseball, regardless of position. However, he still posted emphatically positive marks in Defensive Runs Saved (6) and Outs Above Average (9). Arenado’s nine errors this year tied for his career-low mark in a 162-game season. He’s as surehanded as they come, and though his arm strength (by measure of Statcast) has continued to dip in recent seasons, his range remains elite.
As recently as 2022, Arenado was an MVP finalist who posted a .293/.358/.533 batting line with 30 homers and elite glovework. Even if he can’t return to those heights, he’s an above-average player on a contract that doesn’t exactly pay him like a superstar anyhow. Arenado is owed $74MM over the next three seasons, but the Rockies are on the hook for $10MM of that sum ($5MM in both 2025 and 2026).
It’s a frontloaded deal — he’s owed $32MM, $27MM and $15MM in the next three seasons — so perhaps the hefty 2025 salary ($27MM after the Rockies’ contributions) could be a pause for some interested parties. On the other hand, a big-payroll club that’s accustomed to paying the luxury tax might not balk too much at Arenado’s effective $21.33MM average annual value, for tax purposes. His remaining guarantee and the associated AAV are generally in line with what good but non-superstar free agents like Christian Walker and Teoscar Hernandez are expected to command.
Goold notes that the Cardinals don’t feel any financial pressure at this point to shed the deal. They’ve already scaled back payroll quite a bit and could do so with further trades of shorter-term players. As such, they might not be compelled to simply move Arenado to a team that’s willing to absorb the contract but offer minimal prospects.
At the same time, if the Cardinals’ lack of financial pressure means they’d be comfortable paying down some of that remaining salary, they could in effect buy a better return. Covering even one-third of the contract would render Arenado priced comparably to the three years and $45MM that Jeimer Candelario secured in free agency last winter. Plenty of clubs might be intrigued in that scenario. It’s ultimately Arenado’s call, thanks to that no-trade protection, but to this point he’s not forcing the team’s hand.
RoastGobot
Love arenado
xXTheFETTXx
The Tigers should at least take a look at Arenado, if they want to improve the team without having to invest in the stupid contract that Boras is asking for Bergman (10yrs $350M for a 30-year-old). This isn’t the worst option….not to mention with the Tigers’ depth in the minors, they should be able to put together a package that benefits both teams.
Seamaholic
Arenado is only a little better than a league average player atm, and only heading one direction. I think a team like the Tigers, with its rich farm system, could do better with a trade (and cheaper, so they can add at other positions as well).
spudchukar
You don’t understand how great a defender Arenado still is! He is the best ever. His range to his left is incompareable! It allows the shortstop to play 2 steps closer to second.
stymeedone
@seamaholic,
There are not many options to acquire a 3B of quality in trade. Even at a 104 wRc, Arrenado would be an improvement offensively in Detroit. His contract is only 3 years, so the risk is minimal. He provides much superior defense to what they have had, and is a RH bat with some pop, who doesn’t strike out much (which Harris would like). He would allow Vierling to stay at his best position, OF. Ibanez stays at 2B in a platoon. St.Louis would likely need to pay down some salary, but the Tigers would not be concerned about the Tax.
NYY, LAD, TOR, are just some of the teams looking to improve at 3B, along with Detroit. What player would you like to see Detroit acquire to fill this hole?
Cat Mando
“You don’t understand how great a defender Arenado still is! He is the best ever.”
Brooks says hold my beer. 39.1 dWar. 3rd highest career dWar regardless of position.
NA has averaged 1.2 dWar the last 5 years so if he play until age 40 (like Robinson) that would put him at 28.5
He may be the best you have seen but not the best ever.
mab51357
Chapman is very comparable with range/defense. Not disparaging Arenado at all but he’s not “incomparable”. Wanted the Giants to trade for him when he wanted out of Colorado. He used to kill the Giants when they played the Rockies.
spudchukar
Best ever, including Brooks. Brooks was great, and I would put him second, but he still lacks the complete skills set of Arenado.
spudchukar
Incomparable!
Seamaholic
Not anymore. He was way down defensively last two years. Has really slowed down.
Seamaholic
Chapman has always been as good, and KeBryan Hayes recently as well. Machado not too far behind either. And as of right now, Arenado is not much more than league average.
rocky7
You obviously never saw Brooks Robinson play……didn’t have the power or bat to ball skills that NS had…not has…..and his glove was unbelievable…..calling NA better is just silly….he and Belanger formed one of the best left side infield combos in ML history….
Baseball Babe
Mike Schmidt was the best all around third baseman ever.
spudchukar
I didn’t say the greatest 3rd baseman of all time. Just the greatest defender!
spudchukar
Sorry, but I watched both play, and I am a big Brooks fan, but he still didn’t possess the skills set.
spudchukar
Maybe, but is reading something that evades you?
spudchukar
Not really!
spudchukar
Baseball defensive metrics are for losers! Baseball is way more complicated than you understand!
spudchukar
Stats pretend to be decisive. They cannot consider all of the variables! Baseball is complex. Best game by far, but mainly because of the complications. Players pay little attention to them. Instincs rule!
Cat Mando
“Best ever, including Brooks. Brooks was great, and I would put him second, but he still lacks the complete skills set of Arenado.”
You should have a comedy show.
sonorawind
I don’t understand how players like Robinson, who played almost completely in an era with so few games televised or analyzed for RANGE, can be compared to players since 2000 or so. How can dWAR possibly account for this? I’m old enough to have seen Brooks play from the mid 60s on, and Arenado’s range seems far superior, especially going towards short.
sonorawind
I don’t understand how players like Robinson, who played almost completely in an era with so few games televised or analyzed for RANGE, can be compared to players since 2000 or so. How can ANY of the new defensive metrics possibly account for this? I’m old enough to have seen Brooks play from the mid 60s on, and Arenado’s range seems far superior, especially going towards short.
Motor City Beach Bum
If they get Arenado and not Bregman then they would need to shoot for another big bat, likely at 1B but could also be OF, DH or please god at SS and DFA Baez! Their goal was to add offence this offseason and with his down years Arenado doesnt move the needle as much as others.
spudchukar
I like Bregman alot, and maybe in the long run he would be a better choice, but choice includes money.
17dizzy
I hope Arenado does to Mozeliak what both Sonny Gray and Contreras have done to him!!!!
Tell Mozeliak——
“I’m staying right here with my contract —- the best looking uniforms in Major League Baseball — and my guaranteed $32 million for 2025!!!”
After Mozeliak’s gone —— If Chaim Bloom wants to talk trade —— see what he has to offer.
Lordy!!!
Bloom may actually desire to win a National League Pennant!!!!
Who knows!!!!!
spudchukar
Hey Dizzy I am in your corner!
tominco
I hope the cardinals keep him. As a cards fan living in Colorado, he was my favorite Rockies player before becoming my favorite cardinal.
Sad.Sox 3
Chaim Bloom?!?!?!?!?!?!
Get ready for four years of utter frustration Cardinals fans. Lots of belt tightening and reclamation projects coming your way.
LOL
Floyd Rayford's cat
And then we get to enjoy the shiny new and improved farm system!
redmatt
Right…they give pennants and rings for them, don’t they?
deeds
Chaim DeWitt
Mustard Tiger
Chaim Bloom does not set the payroll. He gets those orders from ownership.
Sad.Sox 3
You’re only putting that guy in charge for one reason: take down the payroll as low as possible and trade everyone away.
Mustard Tiger
No.
vinc3nt3
And let the media, front office and fans blame Bloom. Just like they did in Boston.
layventsky
Luckily for Bloom, the DeWitts are far more patient than the Red Sox owners. Otherwise, Mozeliak would’ve been fired years ago.
emptybattingavg
spoiled red sox fan doesn’t realize Bloom is the reason sox are loaded with young talent and will be very successful moving forward
spudchukar
Exactly!
ih8tepaperstraws
Who is that talent? His best success is a catcher. All of the other top rated talent in the Boston organization and in the roster were drafted/internation signings before and after Blooms reign in Boston.
Elon’sDOGEbag
Yes, because that’s EXACTLY his agenda. Basically he owns the whole team now and will crash and burn it into the ground completely on purpose! They hired him knowing this-they are run by complete NUMBSKULLS!
/s
stymeedone
Chaim Bloom did not set the budget in Boston. Lots of things you can fault him for, but the lack of spending is not one of them.
good vibes only
I’d like to see him in Seattle if the price is right. I’m under no misconceptions of him still being a Dude or an amazing offensive bat, but one of my favorite players of the last decade for sure.
Wagner>Cobb
Highly doubt he consents given his NTC.
dannycore
Depends on his motivation. Seattle is in the middling contender category and an average season from a guy like Arenado could put them in the playoffs.
Wagner>Cobb
Yeah, who knows. He’s pretty conservative though, and has kids, so he might not like the idea of moving them to Seattle.
Blackpink in the area
While i agree Arenado could put the Mariners over the top i highly doubt he wants to go there.
RoastGobot
I’d rather move to Guam
Seamaholic
Arenado is anything but conservative (I assume you mean politically).
PhanaticDuck26
I’d rather you move to Guam, too
Wagner>Cobb
Proof? I could be wrong but I seem to recall him being opposed to the vxxine which tended to be a more conservative stance.
spudchukar
Don’t let the door hit you on your way to the Pacific. Seattle is a great place to live!
Seamaholic
Not round here. The anti-vaxxers are all super liberal. I suppose it’s a horseshoe thing. Both extremes.
BlueSkies_LA
Not where I live, bud.
RoastGobot
It’s a great place to watch half dressed bums nodding off on fent on the streets
spudchukar
You are high! Liberales believe in science, not stupid conspiratives theories! Jonas Salk is rolling over in his grave.
spudchukar
What happened to compassion? Is it dead?
Dogbone
@blackpink: I doubt Arenado cares where he ends up, just as long he’s out of Missouri.
Dogbone
Maybe he’s allergic to Josh Howley, the phoney ‘tough guy’.
It’s
So insightful… thanks for this baseless comment. So funny I am sure everyone is laughing.
johncoltrane
1st ballot HOF?
Wagner>Cobb
Yes.
spudchukar
Yes!
afsooner02
On current trajectory yes…..but his 2024 does cause a very small concern if he keeps falling from the normal #s we’re used to seeing. The Colorado bias will also come into play when it comes time.
I think he’s a given to get in….first ballot is still to be determined
johncoltrane
@sooner
10 gold gloves should cancel out colorado bias
Idk why defense isnt more appreciated when it comes to HOF. Keith hernandez won 11 gg never got more than 10%. Vizquel 11 gg – never got voted in. Ridiculous
Wagner>Cobb
Helton and Walker getting elected show that “anti-Colorado bias” is illegitimate from voters. Plus, he’s hit at an allstar-MVP level clip in StL. Colorado is an official location where official MLB games are played. Holding that against the players who play there is so absurd and utterly unjustified. If its such a problem then MLB should move the franchise or demote them to AAA because its so “unfair” statistically.
spudchukar
Exactly Correcto!
Seamaholic
He should make it, but it will be a slog. He’s at about 50 WAR right now and seriously declining. Never won an MVP or led the league in anything offensively. Never played in a WS or even a CS (although that’s not entirely his fault, he did suck every time he was in a playoffs). He’s a borderline case unless he has a dead cat bounce year coming up.
gbs42
The whole first ballot distinction is weird, but given it’s a thing, no he won’t be elected his first year of eligibility.
mab51357
Absolutely yes.
It’s
Having lived through both the scott rolen years and the NA years in STL, I would take Rolen 9 out of 10 times. That’s not meet to be a knock on NA but more of a comment on how good Rolen was. Analytics aside, Rolen was just a pure winning player.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Isn’t Matt Chapman and Nolan Arenado similar players in terms of expected results (offense and defense)? say in the next 4 or 5 years?
Will It be an Early Spring for StL Cardinal fans? Ready to Bloom?
NOT flying south? Does the Groundhog know? Hibernating?
Blackpink in the area
Arenado is 2 years older. But Chapman has a bigger contract. Those 2 extra prime years are a pretty big deal.
spudchukar
Don’t forget the 10 mil Colorado has to divvy up!
The Saber-toothed Superfife
You gotta admit, Guam sounds interesting….
rct
“Isn’t Matt Chapman and Nolan Arenado similar players in terms of expected results (offense and defense)? say in the next 4 or 5 years?”
Personally, I don’t think so. I would much rather have Chapman. Putting it in simple terms, Arenado has been worth 2.4 and 2.5 WAR the past two seasons. Chapman has been worth 4.4 and 7.1.
Additionally, Arenado seems to be declining pretty significantly. His OPS+ is around league average the past two years and his EV is down to 86-88 mph. Chapman got his OPS+ back up to 125 and has EVs around 93+ mph. Defensively, Chapman seems still in his prime. Arenado, while still very good, is not exactly what he used to be.
Seamaholic
High school teammates! Arenado played short.
Blackpink in the area
Didn’t know that thanks for sharing
mab51357
Wow. Pretty good left side of the infield.
spudchukar
Thanks for the reminder! Good on you!
El Kabong
Before people suggest Los Angeles as a possible destination, Arenado would not be an upgrade over Max Muncy. Despite missing half the season with an injury, Muncy still provided more overall value than Arenado.
Arenado (635 PA) 16 HR, 44 BB, .272/.325/.394 OPS+ 101 bWAR 2.5
Muncy (293 PA) 15 HR, 45 BB, .232/.358/.494 OPS+ 141 bWAR, 3.0
Muncy is six months older and owed $14.5M in 2025 with a $10M team option for ’26).
Arenado is owed $64M non-Rockies dollars for the next three years.
Intelligent front offices don’t fix what isn’t broken. Third base is not a position where the Dodgers need an upgrade.
xXTheFETTXx
It’s getting old that the Dodgers are basically in on everyone….. If Manfred actually cared about growing the sport, he’s do something about the deferment policy that they have. Let’s be frank, because the Dodgers were able to defer Ohtani’s contract, they are now in line to be able to get Sasaki and Soto, and are looking at Snell and now people are saying Arenado….no team should be able to defer that size of a contract and then keep signing other massive contracts because they can defer them.
El Kabong
Ohtani accounts for $46M on the Dodgers’ annual payroll. There is nothing wrong with what they did with Ohtani’s contract. Every team in baseball could have done the same thing. The difference is that every team in baseball is not committed to winning and improving. The Dodgers pay players what the market bears. Looking at their payroll over the next few years, you’ll notice how Friedman brilliantly manages it. Many players come off the payroll yearly, with some destined to be replaced by homegrown players.
Also, the deferment “policy” has been around forever.
xXTheFETTXx
That is what I am getting at, no team should be able to do this. I know it’s been around forever, but clearly it’s flawed if the Dodgers can defer a $700M contract, spend over a billion dollars in free agency in a single off season, only to be able to do it again the next year….
This isn’t brilliance, it’s exploiting a loophole and being able to outspend everyone by deferring contracts.
This is why I am all for the hard cap….look I’m a Red Wings fan as well as a Tigers fan, and I thought what the Wings were doing in the early 2000s was wrong. If a team is going to be able to spend and defer these massive contracts on a yearly basis, the sport is just going to come down to the Yankees, Mets and Dodgers deciding they want the WS that year.
El Kabong
Huh? We have more different teams winning the World Series than ever. And many more qualifying for the playoffs. Meanwhile, owners and pl;ayers alike are raking in dollars.
And, yes, it is brilliance to manage a payroll like Friedman does. A team that could use Juan Soto is the Phillies. Unfortunately, if you include arbitration projections, they already have an estimated $280M tied to their 2025 payroll. The Dodgers have no such concerns.
xXTheFETTXx
Because Ohtani agreed to defer all but $2million a year…you are giving Friedman way too much credit here…if Ohtani didn’t come up with the deferment idea, this would be an entirely different situation.
And the variety of teams that are making the WS is exactly what I am getting at, if we start going crazy with deferring contracts, there are only going to be a handful of teams that are going to be able to do that.
cards81
Every team in baseball cannot defer payments…they aren’t as rich as the Dodgers…Hence why it will become a problem if it is not addressed…only rich teams will be able to kick the can down the road
El Kabong
You have no proof that will happen.
cards81
lol you have no proof it won’t
El Kabong
Kick the can down the road? Ohtani would have been a major investment for any team, based on TV revenue alone.
cards81
I understand you’re a dodgers fans and you have your blinders on…please explain how any central team could have persuaded Ohatani to move away from the west coast…also afford to kick the can down the road and still be able to put players around him to win? You see how it’s a disadvantage
El Kabong
I’m not speculating that it will or won’t. You’re the one making unsubstantiated claims about the future.
People have been saying baseball is “in trouble” due to player contracts since at least 1906. Meanwhile, the sport’s financial situation continues to strengthen some 120 years later. Why worry about the future when history tells us there’s nothing to worry about?
El Kabong
Because Ohtani would help the team make more money. The more money a team makes, the more they can invest in improving the product on the field. Too many owners are happy to maintain the status quo. They aren’t trying to win.
cards81
That doesn’t matter…it’s still a disadvantage for central teams mostly…sure he would add more revenue to a team but they still won’t be able to afford what the Dodgers can by market standards…hint the dodgers have a huge market compared to central teams…they can afford to defer money because they know their market will sustain it…I feel you know it’s a disadvantage you just want to ignore it because it’s your team….
El Kabong
I’m not a child. Don’t give me that “it’s your team” jazz because that’s not how I follow baseball (the only sport I follow).
All teams can afford to pay their stars. And there’s plenty of opportunity for every team to contend and win a World Series. They need to find a way that works for them.
Fans of teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees shouldn’t feel bad about how their favorite team operates. Especially when wealthy owners of “disadvantaged” teams are getting even wealthier off the backs of teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees. Don’t be mad at those teams. Be angry at your wealthy owners for not investing in their team.
cards81
So it’s the owners fault that their market isn’t as big as the teams you mentioned? I’m not asking those fans to feel bad…I’m explaining that those big market teams shouldn’t be able to defer money because it’s a disadvantage to smaller market teams…I know you’re not a child but you seem to not comprehend that fact like a child
Fernando P
Don’t think that is right.
Ohtani counts 2 million towards the Dodgers “payroll”. They are only paying him 2M per year.
His average annual value counts as 46 million for luxury tax calculation.
stymeedone
Ohtani was a pretty unique case, and its not like any other player has elected to follow suit and sign a similar contract.
stymeedone
@el kabong
We also have television contracts getting renegotiated downward, due to lack of profit from broadcasting the games, and ticket prices soaring, putting the game financially out of reach for many families. Due to the Sinclair fiasco, many fans are unable to watch their teams games.
mab51357
Bobby Bonilla comes to mind. He was still drawing checks as of last year. Crazy.
BlueSkies_LA
Not entirely correct. The Dodgers are required to contribute the contract’s deferred $46M present value each year into a segregated account. This money can be invested, but it can’t be spent. You can bet Guggenheim believes they can get a better return on that money than the roughly 4.5% used by the CBA to calculate the present value and end up with a pretty big discount on the contract in ten years.
Fernando P
That’s less the the average annual return of the stock market. Yep, they’ll beat that return quite easily.
CardsFan57
I don’t get why everyone loses their minds over this. I’m pretty sure Ohtani requested it to spread out his income for tax reasons. I don’t see it happening again until someone else is swimming in endorsement income.
BlueSkies_LA
Someone doesn’t understand the basic concepts involved in deferrals. Also, the policy on deferrals is found only in the CBA, as agreed upon by the players and owners. Finally, it isn’t healthy to breathe nothing but rumor fumes. It seems to kill brain cells.
xXTheFETTXx
Let me guess, you’re a Dodgers fan, aren’t you?
BlueSkies_LA
Let me guess, you’re blowing smoke, aren’t you?
xXTheFETTXx
Blowing smoke, you are the one that is assuming I know nothing about the deferment policy in the sport. For instance, it was Ohtani that came up with the deferment idea because he makes so much in endorsements, he doesn’t really need the money. But I’m the one blowing smoke.
BlueSkies_LA
No, I am simply pointing out your complete ignorance on this subject, which you make more obvious with every post.
And it’s deferral, not deferment.
El Kabong
Other teams were presented with the same idea, but in the end, Ohtrani chose the team most committed to winning.
pepenas34
Im glad you understand that it was Ohtani and not the Dodgers as suggested to be responsible for it.
You don’t need the league to regulate this because of the unique of situation.
Blackpink in the area
Muncy missed half of last season. That in itself is cause for concern.
Sometimes a championship team brings in a new guy who is driven to win a championship and that adds hunger to the current squad. The Cardinals themselves did this with Beltran and Berkman. Arenado would keep them from getting complacent.
El Kabong
Muncy is the better player at this point. And when has Andrew Friedman ever been complacent? He constantly seeks ways to improve the Dodgers, and acquiring Arenado wouldn’t do that. Money and prospect capital can be put to better use.
As a Dodger fan, I’m not concerned about Muncy’s 2024 injury. And I never worry about the off-season. I have total faith in Andrew Friedman.
Blackpink in the area
Muncy is believe has more trade value than Arenado when factoring in their contracts.
I do not believe Muncy is the better player.
If the Dodgers don’t want Arenado then so be it. The reason it gets discussed often is he’s from the area and grew up a Dodgers fan. And most people would take him over Muncy.
El Kabong
Muncy is a much better offensive player than Arenado and adequate defensively. He also has a strong history in the post-season. Arenado has a superstar reputation, but that’s negated by his Goldschmidt-like decline over the past two seasons.
Where is the evidence that most people would prefer Arenado to Muncy? I know plenty of Dodger fans that don’t. We’ve been watching Muncy for years and like what we see.
If a team that views itself as a contender has a massive hole at 3B, they might consider trading for Arenado and his contract. Not teams that are already set at the position.
Blackpink in the area
Arenado needs a hitting coach that he will listen to. If he had that he would be a better hitter. He has taken terrible at bats over the last couple years. It’s not a skill problem he just swings at everything.
Again if the Dodgers don’t want Arenado so be it. I don’t care.
BlueSkies_LA
I’ve said it before and I will say it again, Arenado and Muncy are not mutually exclusive propositions. Muncy can move back to 2B, where his defensive work is better. Arenedo is only a couple of seasons removed from offensive excellence, and we know how he plays the position. Not saying it’s going to happen, but the impediments are not as problematic as advertised.
El Kabong
Players decline as they get older. Hence, Arenado’s steep downward turn. Regarding the Dodgers, they have bigger fish to fry than acquiring a childhood Dodger fan who used to be a great hitter. Especially when Mookie’s best infield position is 2B.
Blackpink in the area
Yeah if the Dodgers wanted to move Muncy to 2b that could work. I would be OK with Rojas for Arenado. He would be a good fit for the Cardinals and someone the team could flip at the deadline perhaps.
Blackpink in the area
I watch the games fella. If Arenado is old enough to be in decline then what is Muncy?
You think Betts belongs at 2b? I don’t….
BlueSkies_LA
If they trade for Arenado it won’t be to satisfy his nostalgia. They’ll do it for his glove and in the belief that he has a couple of good years left in his bat. They’ll do it because he looks better in the lineup every day than Lux.
And please try not to be too shocked when they play Mookie at SS next season.
El Kabong
I also watch the games. I watched the Cardinals several times as the JV game before the Dodgers varsity game on the West Coast.
It doesn’t matter what you think. Betts is likely moving back to the infield and is acceptable at 2B. It helps that the Dodgers are exceptional when positioning their defenders.
By the way, if Arenado is still as good as you say, why would you be good with moving him for one season’s worth of Miguel Rojas?
El Kabong
They won’t move Mookie to SS for one season with Freeland on the horizon.
Blackpink in the area
Arenado has a big contract. I think he has upside and still is a good player but that doesn’t make it a good contract. The Cardinals can trade him and then spend that money on someone new in 2026 and beyond. Someone younger who actually wants to be there.
JV? OK fella. Say something like that again I put you on mute.
spudchukar
Muncy couldn’t carry Arenado’s jock strip to the infield.
BlueSkies_LA
As good as who says? I don’t say either way. You have to read the conditionals is my statements. I am saying only if the Dodgers do it, this is what they believe.
DonnieMoore
Stats are pretty close, as is the glove. But Muncy strikes out 1/3 of the time and it is so very painful to watch.
Blackpink in the area
This is a much better article than some of the early offseason Cardinals hit pieces. This is well thought out and fair.
The drop in payroll is coming from the free agents not coming back and the options for Lynn and Gibson not being exercised. So trading Arenado really wouldn’t be about decreasing payroll it would more be about if he’s happy or not and what the team could get back in return. The Cardinals are not doing a full scale rebuild they can contend again soon. On the other hand Arenado grew up a Dodgers fan and the Yankees have a big hole at 3b and those of course were the 2 teams playing in the WS.
Of all the guys who could potentially be traded this offseason I think he’s still at the top of the list. And he could be moved mid season too. That’s when I think the team will trade guys off if they do end up trading away talent.
I think it depends on the offer. If the Dodgers or Yankees made the Cardinals a good offer I think he’s traded but that would have to happen. These teams would have to want to go get him.
Seamaholic
He has no marginal value (his on the field value matches or is a little exceeded by his salary). He would not generate any significant return unless the Cards cover a portion of the salary.
Blackpink in the area
I agree. If the Dodgers want the Cardinals to kick in a bunch of salary I wouldn’t do it. If they are basically willing to take the contract or offer something like Rojas sure I would do that.
spudchukar
What the hell would the Cards be interested in Rojas?
Blackpink in the area
Need an infielder if Arenado is traded.
old elpaso
Bregman domino has to drop first.
Big whiffa
I agree. It drops thou when he doesn’t sign and keeps a sky high price. I think arenado does get moved and I prefer him to Bregman anyway. Detroit would do much better trading for arenado then signing Bregman
spudchukar
Agree! He may go, but the Cards are going to need more than most people believe!
stymeedone
They may need it, but they will only get back what he’s worth, and his contract offsets his on field value.
spudchukar
Shouldn’t!
Rickey O'Sunnyvale
It’s the perfect time to trade Muncy and get Arenado.
seamaholic 2
He denied having requested a trade from the Rockies, too, until the very end.
Blackpink in the area
The Cardinals are a great franchise taking a step back. The Rockies are a freaking mess. He wasn’t wrong for wanting out of there.
Seamaholic
Not saying he was. Just saying he lied repeatedly and publicly about having demanded a trade from Denver. Someone who has done that once can do it again. And I would point out that the big thing missing from his resume is a World Series (or indeed Championship Series) appearance, and he ain’t getting that if he stays in St. Louis.
Blackpink in the area
I am assuming he does want out he’s just not willing to make a big deal about it.
The Cardinals aren’t that far off from being a contender. Saying he can’t win in St Louis is dumb.
spudchukar
Lied is not the accurate verb.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
The answer is simple: Drink more beer
El Kabong
The Cardinals weren’t taking a step back at the time. They were trying to contend for championships. In that regard, it didn’t work out for the Cards. Three losing playoff games in four years; Arenado was 1-12 in those games. How will those years be viewed in Cardinals history?
Blackpink in the area
Only 1 team wins it all every year fella. And apparently it’s your team lol. You probably live in South Dakota.
I remember growing up watching the Dodgers choke year after year. Were you a fan back then or did you just become one recently?
El Kabong
Dodger fan since ’68, if it matters.
Ah, choke. It’s the go-to word of sports fans who root for the junior varsity. Thanks in advance for muting me, “fella.” I’ll think of you often during the Cardinals’ massive REBUILD.
Blackpink in the area
Kershaw in the prime of his career choked year in and year out. I watched the games.
Real classy to talk trash when the Dodgers finally succeeded in buying a championship. Real classy fella.
El Kabong
The Dodgers are successful every year. Winning a championship isn’t the only criterion for success. If that were true, what would it say about the lives of most people? That they are all chokers?
Sports isn’t just about winning. It’s about the journey. That’s why baseball is the best sport. It replicates real life in that it’s every day; it’s about balancing the highs and lows into what is hopefully an enriching experience.
.
Blackpink in the area
The journey lol. The Dodgers just bought a championship. That’s lame dude.
spudchukar
Totally different scenarios! If Arenado moves to a franchise that is favorable to right handed hitter, hits with someone on base for a change, and has a left-handed bat behind him to protector him he will still put up numbers .275, 25 dingers and 100 RBI’s!
Seamaholic
Nah dude. He’s still a good player but those days are gone. His hand speed, which are his primary tool, is gone.
spudchukar
A) NOT defensively! B) His approach is different. Not sure I agree with his change totally. But he only wants to win games. If only every player were so smart and giving.
baseballpun
They’d be better off keeping him than trade him for a minimal return. If he bounces back to some extent the team might be competitive, or if not he’d have higher trade value. Unless he wants out, I see no reason to move him this winter (barring a really solid offer).
stymeedone
It would allow them to play Walker at his natural position.
spudchukar
I don’t think Walker is a natural at any position but DH!
raulp
A very long article dedicated to a trade that’ll never happen.
greg1
Could be a good fit for the Jays. They need the bat and a 3rd baseman.
Ducey
Not sure on that.
Arenado was 2.5 WAR last year. His HR have gone 34, 30, 26, 16 over the last 4 years which is an indication of his decline.
Clement was 3.5 WAR last year (with less playing time) and plays good defense at 3B
One will cost lots for the next 3 years. One gets ML minimum. Arenado is better with the bat slightly now (101 OPS+ v 95) but is likely to keep slipping. Plus the Jays have a bunch of prospects that might take over there.
greg1
Let’s be fair though. Before last season, Clement had done nothing of note over his first four MLB seasons, whereas Nolan has been a multi-time All-Star, MVP candidate. If I was going to bet on which player was more likely to produce better results over the next three years, I’m taking Nolan hands down.
Ernie had a nice year in 2024, no doubt. To take him over Nolan in 2025 though when the club needs more offence and better defence though is not a winning play.
spudchukar
Arenado is the greatest defensive third baseman ever. And I have watched many, and even played with a few. I’ve seen Brooks, Nettles, Schmidt, Rolen, and others. None had the total skill’s package as Arenado. Handles down he, to date is the greatest!!!
Cat Mando
Ummmm….no
spudchukar
Ummm, yes!
larkraxm
They have defensive metrics that measure things like this and save us from having to debate. Somebody already posted this, but it is Brooks Robinson, and it isn’t particularly close. Among tons of impressive defensive stats Robinson accumulated, he won an astounding 16 gold gloves. I know that you probably were not being literal, but if you were, then you are wrong.
spudchukar
First off, who was his competicion? Secondly defensivel metrics suck. Mainly it is the info/graders/deciders that have no clue. If you believe multi-million dollar organizations rely or make decisions on defensive metrics you are beyond high! It is fodder for the masses. Players know! Managers and coaches know. Oraganizations know. If you think teams spend million of dollars making decisions on defensively metrics, you are higher, than I have ever been. And trust me that is pretty high!
mab51357
Somebody loves him some Nolan Arenado. Are you moonlighting as Mrs. Arenado. One of the best ever but so are a handful of others. Tough to say anyone is the best ever definitively. Time for you to fix dinner for Nolan Mrs. Arenado.
spudchukar
I know more than you!
Cat Mando
When someone states “I know more than you!” on here it is comparable to those who state “I have an IQ of 170” on Quora or Reddit….. it always the stuff that drops from the south end of a northbound bull.
Have a nice night in Narnia, you certainly don’t live in reality.
Devlsh
Arenado is still an asset and several teams (Yankees, Mets, Tigers, Astros, Blue Jays, Nationals, potentially Phillies etc) have a need at the position and the money to pay him.
Because of his NTC, he can certainly steer himself wherever he wants within that market, but i have little doubt the Cardinals can…and probably will.. trade him.
CardsFan57
If the Cardinals trade Arenado, it will be salary dump. They won’t pay to trade him so they aren’t getting much in return. I’d say the odds are less than 50% they can match up on a trade Arenado will approve.
rememberthecoop
He is way overpaid for the numbers he’s produced over the last 2 seasons. They couldn’t give him away.
spudchukar
You know so little.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Chris Taylor for Arenado straight up. Who says no?
El Kabong
The Dodgers would say no. They do not need Arenado because they already have a more productive third baseman.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
The Tigers should take on all 3 of those guys, (Gray, Contreras, Arenado), and get rewarded with Quinn Mathews, who cost them next to nothing, as compensation for helping the Cardinals complete a full reset.
There are other obvious hires as well. One in particular…..
The Saber-toothed Superfife
The Tigers will eat all that salary, but throw in some Roki money…..
Wagner>Cobb
They should probably trade him if possible. Wetherholt is on the way and might debut this year.
Different subject, but it wouldn’t shock me if Chase Davis got a cup of coffee at the end of the year as well. He finished in AA and his numbers were trending up after a difficult pro-debut post-draft in 2023. It’s odd to me how few Cardinals’ fans talk about him or include him in their plans for the future. I would go so far as to say that – in light of the development failures of Carlson and Walker – the desire for Davis to pan out should be strong. The big league outfield is pretty weak as well, all things considered. Nootbaar is ok, Burleson can hit but isn’t great defensively, and Donovan makes more sense in the infield. Davis represents a potentially 4-tool outfielder who can stick in CF if everything clicks.
spudchukar
Agree, not much talk about Davis. Still he needs to continue his growth. Hope he can build on 2024, and justify his first round choice.
Wagner>Cobb
Agreed. This is an important year for him. He had a triple slash of .301/.388/.451 in high A last year. Only struck out 5 times in 8 AA games once promoted, so perhaps he wasn’t overmatched. He should start in AA will hopefully get out to a hot start.
ih8tepaperstraws
Davis surely didn’t get talked about enough. He should be up well before the end of the year. He should be learning at the major league club with this rebuild. Same with Jimmy Crooks, he’s already the best catcher in the organization.
Wagner>Cobb
Herrera transitioning to more DH time with Crooks as the primary catcher would be ideal. With Wetherholt and Davis on the way, the future offense could be in decent shape.
ih8tepaperstraws
Arenado to Detroit and its deep left field makes no sense. He’s seen a decline in power both of the last two years. He would be lucky to get to 12 home runs with his heavy pull style.
MLBTR needs to hire editors
When “but” starts the sentence, there shouldn’t be a comma after it.