The Rays’ plans for 2028 and beyond are back up in the air. Over the weekend, owner Stuart Sternberg criticized local officials for postponing bond votes to approve the public financing to construct a new stadium in St. Petersburg’s Gas Plant district. Sternberg alluded to the possibility of relocation when discussing the situation with John Romano of the Tampa Bay Times.
MLB commissioner Rob Manfred addressed it at this week’s owners meetings. Asked about the possibility of relocation, Manfred said MLB remains “committed to the fans in Tampa Bay” (link via Mark Feinsand of MLB.com). “I think given all that’s happened in that market, we’re focused on our franchise in Tampa Bay right now,” he added.
That partially walks back Sternberg’s relocation threat, though the team continues to agitate for a quick resolution. Pinellas County officials met on Tuesday afternoon, a few days after Sternberg’s comments. Leading up to the meeting, Rays presidents Brian Auld and Matt Silverman wrote a letter to the county saying that the delays have already “ended an ability for the delivery of the 2028 ballpark” (link via Colleen Wright of the Tampa Bay Times). Auld and Silverman wrote that moving forward with the plan in ’29 “would result in significantly higher costs,” though they concluded by saying they “stand ready to work on a new solution with any and all willing partners to preserve the future of baseball in Tampa Bay.”
That didn’t spur any kind of movement from the county. Officials voted for another postponement on the bonds, pushing that back until at least December 17, writes Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times. Sam Blum of the Athletic wrote yesterday that some county officials have taken issue with Sternberg’s tactics.
“To be clear, we did not vote to kill the deal, nor should a three-week delay in a 30-plus year commitment be a deal killer to begin with,” the board’s vice chair Brian Scott said at the meeting (per Blum). “That’s just a totally ridiculous statement. The delay was not because of a lack of support for the Rays or our partnership. But it was a necessary due diligence to ensure the best interest of our residents and our taxpayers were met.”
In July, St. Petersburg and Pinellas County each approved the stadium deal that would’ve committed upwards of $300MM in public funding to a $1.3 billion project. They didn’t officially vote on the bonds at that time, however, and the deal was thrown into flux in recent weeks. Hurricanes Helene and Milton have hit the area incredibly hard. Hurricane Milton destroyed the Tropicana Field roof, rendering it unplayable for at least the 2025 season. The city has yet to announce whether it’ll approve the approximate $55.7MM in repair costs necessary to get the Trop into playing condition by ’26. Elections in November also changed the makeup of the county council.
The Rays will play next season at George M. Steinbrenner Field in Tampa. Manfred suggested the end of 2025 could serve as an unofficial deadline for having a long-term plan in place. “It’s one thing to make an interim arrangement for 2025, which we’ve done,” the commissioner stated. “When you get into another year, there’s obviously going to be another interim arrangement unless they get the Trop fixed. I think that second year of an interim arrangement, you need a plan as to how you’re going to get into a permanent facility.”
Nashville welcomes you
They won’t put up the public money required after the Titans stadium.
@MatthewStairs. You are quite incorrect. Nashville will build a new stadium for an MLB team, but they would prefer an expansion team. Nashville WILL have an MLB team either in the coming expansion or through relocation.
Nashville will put up the money. I’ve lived here for 14 years and there is a huge push for MLB coming here led by Dave Bombroski and others. Read the link:
mlbmusiccity.com/
I think either Salt Lake City or Montreal are the next stops for new teams
Man imagine a nationals and expos rivalry
Montreal lol get a life
MLB better never return to Montreal. I’m so tired of people discussing that as a possibility. Baseball in Montreal was an embarrassment.
Ah what could have been. Check out the roster and standings before the 94 strike ended the season. They really never recovered after that. The stadium was bad and with a better park they may do better.
Yes, I’m well aware the 94 team was good. That isn’t my point. Even with that solid of a performance in 1994, they were only 11th out of 14th in attendance in the NL.
Why would Nashville officials be interested in spending hundreds of millions of dollars for a stadium when there are so many other more important needs?
Couldn’t that be said about any metropolitan area?
colonel,
That’s pretty much my point. Every metropolitan area should tell sports owners to pay for their own stadiums.
Their roots are in North Carolina.
You don’t want Nashville to welcome them… You want an owner willing to spend to put a good product on the field. That’s NOT Stu Sternberg.
I want Nashville to welcome them!
Hi Clip!
Hey Prov. I hope you’re doing well, sir. I would love to see a team in Nashville, but I think they’re deserving of a good ownership group. It would be really nice to see DD get his expansion because I think they would spend to be really competitive.
Outsider’s observation. The team struggles with local fans. You’re pressing pretty hard for a community with a lot of rebuilding to do in a lot of areas. Give the local officials some breathing room.
That seems fair and reasonable, but what you don’t understand is that because of the Nov election the makeup of both the city and county commissions has changed and have gone from a majority of YES votes to a majority of NO votes, and those commissioners are now enjoying their little bit of power to go before every single media outlet to say they intend to vote down the stadium deal that took years to reach (by refusing to issue the bonds). This is also the 2nd delay they’ve caused to issuing the bonds and there is no guarantee they won’t keep delaying the vote until the actual drop dead date of March 2025, by which time the Rays will no longer have enough time to get the stadium built by 2028 and will have assumed massive cost increases as a result (Rays are responsible for ALL cost overruns). There’s a lot of dirty pool going on in the Tampa Bay area right now.
The Rays have already said 2028 isn’t happening for a new stadium. Poor team, having to pay for its own stadium after two hurricanes devastated the area. Seems the new commissioners have a better sense of priorities.
First, I think the 2028 timeline can be salvaged, but it was always aggressive, so maybe not.
Second, the commissioners aren’t choosing to spend money for more altruistic reasons. They are allocating a specific pot of money for tourist and entertainment uses that is funded by a specific tax in the area. One commissioner has openly stated he prefers to fund renovations to the Phillies minor league and ST stadium over the Rays. So you see, there are no clean hands here. The city and county have agreed to help fund and develop a new stadium and because of the Nov elections and the hurricane caused delay to the Oct vote, the commission is now anti-Rays. But the money won’t be going to feed the homeless or back to taxpayers. It will just go to other tourist/entertainment uses.
@mp It is still taxpayer funded. And when those funds run dry they ll most certainly be replenished with more $ from taxpayers.
As for the election having an impact, it is what it is. But regardless of the votes timing in regards to election either way the vote would have and now will be held with those chosen by the taxpaying residents who will be funding this opulent cathedral to sport that would(or would have) bolster his networth.
Just a disgusting show of entitlement and complete lack of empathy or regard for all those in that area. They are rebuilding lives or learning to go on in life without someone they tragically lost. Sternberg might not be accustomed to being inconvenienced or using not being able networth to make rules, laws, peasants, pions,residents, etc to bend, bow, succumb, or be crushed if they get in the path of what he wants. They unfortunately have their own lives, homes, and needs to tend to.
It’s sad enough that taxpayers fund these stadiums without retaining some ownership stake, ultimately just building and asset for an owner(s) who are wealthy beyond what 99.99% could ever conceive and also increase the value of the franchise they own. But I’m this case in a region that was just battered by a national disaster this entitled SOB actually has the audacity to public voice his frustration and threaten to leave…. It is just despicable and pathetic. And sadly it’s just lose lose for fans and residents if he stays or if he leaves. He’s a selfish pathetic individual.
Do you feel better getting that off your chest? Yes, a little less than 50% of the stadium is being paid for by taxpayers. Yes, the voters have spoken. Yes, it is unfair that rich people leverage their wealth, power and influence to get richer. What exactly is the point of your post though? Life isn’t fair and good people almost never come out on top? I get that. I also know that the city/county decided decades ago that creating a pot of money that can only be used for tourist and entertainment needs is good for the community because it drives tourism and enhances quality of life in the area. This money will be spent on tourist and entertainment purposes. Would you rather it be spent on the Phillies or Blue Jays’ minor league stadiums than the Rays major league stadium? What about the Dali museum in St. Pete? What about other privately owned businesses that are supported in part by this tax? Where do you want to draw the line? Because that’s where the money is going. It’s not going to help the poor, the hungry or those who lost their homes in the storm. The tax has been around for decades and it is viewed as favorably as any tax can be. That’s the question on the table (what tourist/entertainment use to fund). I live in the area and I am a Rays fan. I want this stadium (or one in Tampa).
These are tax dollars intended for promoting the St Pete area. You keep bringing up the “fact” that they sadly won’t be going to repair homes or feed the homeless. They can’t be designated for that purpose.
@mp The fact that they would prefer to renovate minor league facilities for spring training over a major league stadium that was just destroyed tells you who is spending the money in the area, not that anything is necessarily untoward. If you have a tourism and entertainment budget you cater to that which drives value. We all know that’s not the Rays. Florida’s tourism economy lives and dies by the snowbirds.
I was commented to express what a scumbag Sternberg is. And if you re a Rays fan I absolutely understand your frustration. If the Tigers were in this situation I’d be trying to see and hope for the best as well. That comment was unbelievable considering what the area has been through and for him to say it in regards to $300M that is being given to fund a stadium for him. Rays fans, Tampa/St.Pete, and FLA residents deserve better than this.
In general though I have an issue with tax funded stadiums. Sternberg’s comments just was icing on the cake. And yes I feel better every time I point out he’s a scumbag which he absolutely is.
Again I understand why you want the Rays to stay. I hope they stay as well, it’s not fair to fans when this happens. Anyone buying a pro sport franchise should be doing so with a solid plan for making them thrive not weaponize them. I believe it was in the show Billions that said of one buying a pro sports team, that “It is how we knight people in this country”. Which I think is an excellent view. Just being able to buy a team is not enough, you have to be approved and welcomed into that small group. What Sternberg s doing should be unacceptable.
As far as the Minor League stadium thing. They did not get into much detail but that seems a bit suspect with the few details given. It doesn’t surprise me in any way, sadly though it’s just the you taxpayers down there getting screwed just on a smaller scale. Although what Sternberg is doing is legal. The ML team seems potentially a little more suspect.
As for what to do with the tax, if people have to ponder and come up with what to do with it, it’s really not necessary. And a new stadium is not going to bring in Amy new revenue. Yes it’s gonna shuffle a bit of what cities or counties benefit from it. But if Rays up and moved 95 cents of every dollar or more would still be spent locally. Almost no one was traveling to FLA with the main intent of seeing the Rays. If Rays were to leave nearly all the $ spent on going to a game would be spent elsewhere in the communities or cities. We are a consumer society we lend and spend. With or without a pro sport team that is going to happen.
Hopefully though this works out and you Rays fans don’t have to suffer.
Sigh…. Florida’s tourism economy and the annual arrival snowbirds does not live and die by 5-6 weeks of spring training.
Yeah, it’s an annual rite of passage for Stu to say something that causes all his marketing/PR folks to cringe and spend the next few weeks walking back the statement. The Rays could be better communicators. That said, they and their developer partner Hines were planning to relocate about 100 people in December for the duration of the construction. Those plans are now on hold, but it’s not like the Rays just snapped a finger and put it on hold. There are a lot of costs associated with breaking leases and the like, but with no guarantee that the project is going to move forward, what can they do? The Rays were a bit tone-deaf, but they also need the commission to understand that delaying construction has real costs.
By the way, the tax provides real benefits. No one is pondering what to do with the money. They are prioritizing what makes the most sense, with beach renourishment one of the biggest outlays.
Anyway, lets hope we’re all able to discuss the TB Rays in 5 years, instead of the Nashville Rays. I think it will all work out, but I’m beyond frustrated by the games being played by the commissioners. Some may have the area’s best interests at heart, but some are just all too happy to hear their own voices.
@mp Come on… don’t strawman me.
I didn’t say spring training is the crux of Florida’s tourism economy. I said snowbirds are. Spring Training brings down more of them and they spend more money in the surrounding economy. Hotel and Airbnb prices triple at minimum from December through April, which also spikes the 13% hotel taxes collected.
My point is that 5-6 weeks of spring training from Northern teams generates more income per dollar invested for Florida than a season of Rays baseball and that’s why they’d rather beef up the amenities at spring training and minor league parks than the Trop.
The vote on the bonds was delayed prior to the election, not after.
Sternberg is a real piece of work threatening to relocate. So what if the city councils need to delay bonds voting for a few weeks? They have higher priorities to deal with like hurricane rebuilding and repairs for their local residents. If the new Trop gets pushed into a ’29 opening, Sternberg will still get his bag with a new stadium. I’ve got zero sympathy for this guy.
It’s a pretty bad look, almost as if the Rays’ ownership is privately ok with scuttling the deal and relocating.
Pretty much. He’s been wanting to leave for years but likely couldn’t get it approved by the league or no buyers. It’s possible this will give him the out he really wants. We all hate him as an owner and as a person. He has ZERO commitment to even try to build a team or fanbase.
True. The Rays need an owner like the Lightnings Jeff Vinik, who turned around the franchise because he saw the potential for the nations 11th rated media market. Poor promotion and a terrible stadium, “it has AC, whipdeedoo”, in an even worse location. I doubt baseball would allow them to move. Problem is Manfred is the commissioner. That can’t help.
The Rays have lived up to their side of the deal. It’s the city and county who are threatening to walk away from the deal. Make no mistake about that. The agreement to build a stadium has been signed. The city and county are now refusing to issue the bonds to pay for their portion of the costs. What are the Rays to do? Just sit quietly and say they’ll move forward with paying for the whole damn thing, at a higher cost no less because of these delays?
@mp They did not refuse. They have temporarily delayed. With newly elected officials being involved as well as the events that transpired in the region. A few weeks delay for all involved to be brought upto speed and do their due diligence on the matter is by no means unreasonable. It’s a project that for now spans 30 years after construction is complete.
And when you say Rays you are clearly referring to Sternberg the majority owner of Rays and former partner of Goldman Sachs. Just to put some context to who you are referring to here. We can reasonably assume he won’t starve due to the delays here. We know this as every single American reading this has already contributed to his wealth in the wake of 2008 with the publicly disclosed bonus he received after Goldman was handed billion$ in bailout funds.
Tiger – The city/county isn’t picking up the tab for their temporary delay and due diligence, now are they? A majority of the commissioners are currently saying they will vote against issuing the bonds, now aren’t they? Sell stupid somewhere else. They are refusing to do what they are contractually obligated to do. Unfortunately, the Rays have no recourse under the stadium agreement. They can send threatening letters about relocation and that’s about it. At the end of the day, if the City/County decide to issue the bonds, the Rays have to proceed with building the stadium, regardless of the amount of additional costs this delay has caused. You may not like Stu or the rich or bankers in general, but he’s playing the only card he has to salvage a deal that took years to come together. I’m Team Rays in this dispute.
It clearly states that the once 5-2 commission vote is believed could potentially be 4-3 against now. Nothing quoting anyone backing why or anything to justify or even attempt to explain.
It does however quote 2 commissioners who are said to have been long time critics of the deal. None of those quotes are in regards to the vote total or the speculation of it.
One commissioner is quoted defending why it is reasonable to do due diligence consideration the size and scope of progress. Basically a status quo statement. Something that should ve expected of a politician.
The other commissioner a bit more convoluted. His father receiving political donations and ties to Phillies organization. Whose Spring Training facility and Minor League stadium are located within the county funding the proposed new stadium. It’s kind of vague as to the ties of the political backer. Could very well be a county resident and business owner. As for his son the other commission member, he clearly is not happy they chose to play next year in stadium of Yankees Minor League team. Which is not located in the county that’s helping fund their new stadium. His displeasure I clearly understand. I do however have alot of questions tho with potential conflicts of interests. But the article is vague and clearly the journalist who wrote is entrenched on one side of the matter.
But those are some of the finer points you ignored.
Tiger -I didn’t ignore any finer points. I live in Tampa and I know all too well all about those details. I’m not just getting my information from MLBTR. However, I don’t see how those points affect this discussion. I thought our main disagreement was that I am looking past technicalities and calling the situation for what it is (ie: the Commission is refusing to do what they are contractually obligated to do), while you are choosing to ignore reality and pretend that delaying the vote has no consequence and that when the vote is ultimately held, it won’t be voted down 4-3.
What we haven’t really discussed is the fact that the stadium deal is separate from the overall development agreement. In a stroke of absolute brilliance, the Rays bifurcated these deals, which means if the County votes down the stadium, the Rays still get to control the development of the entire area which will probably generate hundreds of millions of dollars for the Rays over the next couple of decades. So the City/County will be paying for the Rays stadium one way or another. It’s just a question of whether the stadium is located in St. Petersburg, or another city. The Rays have sent that message loud and clear to the City/County. Now it’s in their hands.
@mp2891
If I were the Rays, “principle of the thing” gripes with the council’s delay notwithstanding, I would still proceed with a bit more tact in my rhetoric. It costs them nothing to look better PR-wise by at least feigning understanding for extenuating circumstances.
@mp2891
That said, if I am being fair, the city council is framing the delay as “just a few weeks”, when that delay is costing hundreds of millions of dollars and threatening the viability of the project. They should own up to the fact the new council is simply considering scuttling the project, and own up to the cost of their delay.
No doubt. Stu is not a good communicator or a sympathetic person. That said, his strategy of turning up the heat has done two things. It has made people realize how unfair the commission is being, particularly the ring leaders Latvala and Nowicki. It has also made people realize that the Rays are going to make hundreds of millions off developing the entire area, whether there’s a stadium or not. Voters won’t be happy giving hundreds of millions to the Rays without also having the team staying in St. Pete.
We hate him
I live in the area. I’d be very happy for the wokest team in baseball to move out of my state. I think they should go to somewhere they’d be more comfortable – like Havana.
The wokest team in baseball…. Whatever… Just say what you really mean. You don’t like the Rays hosting Pride Night.
For those who don’t follow the Rays. They host about 10 nights a year for various groups in the area that the Rays wish to support and/or market their team to. Those groups include various nationalities, first responders, teachers, and yes, even folks of the LGBTQ community. Special patches and/or uniforms often accompany these nights. No one cares about any of these events other than Pride Night, for which a sizeable number of people object to on … well, whatever grounds make sense to them.
@Yankee Sternberg is a former partner at Goldman Sach. He’s one of many who after being bailed out for recklessly turning Wall St and investing into practically a casino. Could not resist temptation or greed and decided they and other executives received bonuses approved by the companies they ran out of the bailout $ they collected from Federal Government. At least one company tried referring to these as “retention bonuses” to justify handing out taxpayers $. But what else could be said they took those companies to what would have been bankruptcy and liquidation. Hard to justify anyone being rewarded for such.
So the entitlement exhibited by Sternberg should come as no surprise. The man is a Robber Baron who got into the right industry at the right time and was rewarded with a life of luxury and incomprehensible wealth. As well as some unknown level of power and influence to make our government bow to people like him. Who knows if the extent they ve bought, funded, and owned politicians will ever be quantified let alone publicly disclosed. Let Sternberg eat cake, as he waits…..
If the stadium opening is pushed to a 2029 opening it increases the costs by $130 million and Sternberg has said he cannot pay that increased cost on his own.
Sternberg “gets his bag” without the new stadium because the city already signed off on selling him all that land for redevelopment for about 10% of its market value. In partnership with Hines he will make billions from redeveloping that land over the next 20 years. No stadium just means less upfront money out of his pocket. He will still get the main benefit of the deal, the redevelopment.
@Baseball Thanks for sharing those details. I had a feeling Sternberg would be gaining far more than the $300M mentioned with linked article. It always seems to be the case.
Illitch’s got a similar deal with Little Caesars Arena, home of Wings and Pistons. The deal was made with a promise of “District Detroit”. It was proposed as a multi use development primarily entertainment near LCA to complement that particular area. Instead the land is primarily vacant along with countless other properties swallowed up by companies created under parent company Illitch Holdings. Prior to LCA’s development they bought up random swaths of property with these companies making it very hard for anyone trying to buy property they could potentially profit off later. Now some are used as paid parking occasionally and the rest sit idle. For some unknown reason there was nothing in writing guaranteeing this development when they were gong through process of collecting tax money for construction. This project also left The Palace of Auburn Hills vacant as Pistons left for LCA. On a positive note Joe Louis Arena’s land the Wings former home, now is being redeveloped.
The ugly details rarely get reported in these deals, or are hardly mentioned. The highlights tho are always repeatedly mentioned. But the cities, counties, municipalities, taxpayers, local businesses, etc… always seem to end up with something that’s far from as great as the highlights sold and told while they pilfer the tax dollars.
I didn’t know that about the Arena deal in Detroit. Thanks.
St Pete did get assurances of the redevelopment both in types of development and in a timeliness. That doesn’t change the fact that 25% of the land will sit empty because it’s where the stadium and parking would have been.
With District Detroit they reported timeliness and made it sound as though it was a sure thing and one would ve assumed they were contractually bound in order to receive the tax $ for stadium.
Covid came and there were delays as expected and time went on as did no progress. Eventually reporters started digging in and the truth came to light.
Lots of posturing. I doubt Sternberg wants to go through the headache of relocation at this stage of the game. I think they ultimately posture until the very end and renegotiate a new deal.
In the case of Nashville i don’t think Sternberg would be part of the equation as i expect the group there would try to get him to sell. Actually the best interest for him and/or the team might be to sell
Actually, the whole affair could work out best for the Rays and the Tampa Bay community overall (which is Tampa, St. Pete and Clearwater for those who don’t know). Rays move to the city of Tampa and build a new stadium with a little help from Tampa/Hillsborough taxpayers while using the redevelopment funds they are guaranteed under a separate deal with St. Pete/Pinellas to fund the rest of the “govt” portion of the stadium costs in Tampa. Rays move to the higher population and greater business side of the community and become a much stronger financial entity, while the city of St. Pete and Pinellas County are left holding the bag because of their efforts to kill the deal by withholding funding. BRILLANT!!!!
@mp How could this not work out in favor of residents and taxpayers as a whole. Guys like former Goldmen Sach partner Sternberg have lived a life of sacrifice and civic duty. Guys like him do with out in the name of philanthropy and to better his country and mankind…..
Tiger – I don’t live in Fantasy Land and I don’t cry myself to sleep at night complaining about life not being fair. I want baseball to stay in the Tampa Bay community and that means taxpayers funding part of the stadium. It’s just that simple.
@mp,
As a born Pinellas County citizen it would be sad to see them go. For the sake of the team, they should move to Tampa. I just hope Tampa can come through with a solid plan. I don’t support billionaires getting money from taxpayers, but that’s the world we live in. St Pete and the county dropped the ball. I just want baseball to stay in the area, same as you.
I also don’t really understand this weird rivalry between Pinellas and Hillsborough. You’d think they would work together instead of having a petty sibling rivalry.
The Rays have to relocate already. They won’t be playing in Tropicana Field and will play 2025 in the Yankees spring training park.
To me the biggest question is do they want to start negotiations over with St. Petersburg or just move on. There are other options. Cities that want a team.
No more public funding for billionaires. But I do love Petco!
If the public is funding some or all of a stadium, in any sport, why does the public have to pay to get inside said stadium to watch?
Wasn’t the tab already paid in advance?
At least $300M(that’s the toal of the bonds and what not this article relates to). Then there’s the roof of the Trop which was/is insured for $25M and I want to say most current repair estimate was $56 or 59M. So from the publicly disclosed lined item costs mentioned I’m article $301-304M going to fund current or projected stadium.
The funds in question would be at least some of advance or future payments to fund the project.
As for why doesn’t the public get in free, these new stadiums rarely if ever result in an ownership stake for local and/or regional governments or municipalities. Us peasants just further enrich these robber barons and help inflate their net worths.
This is something Sternberg has grown accustomed to the once former partner of Goldman Sach was one of those at the helm when they ran the company to bankruptcy and helped Wall St collectively cripple our economy. Only to be saved by bailouts and then decide to reward themselves and other executives with bonuses for their efforts and contributions in the debacle they helped create.
Fans in Oakland are like, “Really, Manfred?”
Why is it that the clubs involved never offer up another 10% to help cover overages – of which it’s guaranteed… instead it’s always screw taxpayers, baseball fans and non-fans alike.
News Flash – The Rays are on the hook for ALL cost overruns. That’s why they are trying to get the city and county to stop messing around with the funding, because the team is incurring all the costs for the delays. The city and county are in the wrong here.
The A’s agreed to all cost overruns in Vegas. If Fisher can do it so can Stu.
Well duh… Rays agreed to that already. What they didn’t expect were massive cost overruns caused by their govt partners suddenly working against the project.
@mp Are you serious “cost overruns”?? Come on… If planned accordingly they should be able to fund these projects within the projected budget barring some random unforseen. Anyone, any company, any business when developing or renovating are liable for cost overruns. There is a risk/reward involved with operating a business. The reward being profiting and the risk is potentially failure or losses. Just like investing $ the nearly all others have to assume the risks involved with investing and are responsible for the losses. Sternberg knows this very well. He was partner while GS squandered the investments of all their customers. And for doing so the company was propped back up with OUR tax dollars that they took the liberty of rewarding themselves bonuses with. Yet again here he is expecting assurances so he is not responsible for the risks associated with a business and/or investing.
He likely also is carrying some type of policy covering nearly all scenarios that could lead to overruns. Not to mention the write offs and other manipulations of tax code they ll without a doubt be utilizing to the max and them some.
Are you noting the one constant here? Sternberg is not footing the bill’s nor is assuming the risks. The tax payers always end up with the bill in their hands. All the while his net worth is going up.
Again, I feel horrible for all Rays fans and how they end up as victims and lose either way here. I understand your frustration as a fan and your motivation to only care that it ends with Rays staying. But giving this guy a pass is simply wrong. He’s a parasite that just continues to feast off tax revenues of any host that he can latch onto. Him and his cronies at most any other point in human history would ve found themselves led to the gallows or their equivalent for any given time period. They just happened to be around right time where they re rewarded for their pilfering any and all they find vulnerable.
Sure Manfred, just like the A’s were #RootedInOakland
#RootedInSacramentoUntilWeHopToLasVegas
You are all making an important point, If a city does not pony up, then their team will be gone. We call it a shake down. My advice is to pay the shake down. I am from Seattle, and I know lots of people wish that we had paid the shake down and kept the Sonics. MLB will probably never be back to Oakland. They should have paid the shake down. If the Rays leave, MLB is gone forever in Tampa. Just pay the shake down.
Oakland DID pay the shakedown. John Fisher dipped out of the negotiations. He just couldn’t afford to build in the Bay
Is it a shake down when the parties have already signed an agreement that calls for the city and county to issue bonds in OCTOBER 2024 and the city and county are now saying maybe they’ll issue them in DECEMBER 2024, while a majority of the commissioners are separately saying to the media that they intend to ultimately vote AGAINST issuing the bonds whenever the vote comes up??? Who is shaking down whom here?
Yes, this all political gamesmanship shaking down the Rays to say we got a better deal than the old city council.
Pay hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire? Why encourage further shakedowns? Is having a pro team really that important? More important than meeting the basic needs of hundreds of thousands of people?
GBS – Read my comment above. The money HAS to be spent on tourist/entertainment purposes.
That is the question each community has to answer for themselves. In Seattle, with the increased cost of building and, well, everything, the price to bring back an expansion Sonics team will be far more than if they had just paid the shake down in the first place. Pro sports teams generate tax revenue and create jobs and tourist dollars. That is why Seattle wants the Sonics back. We can watch NBA on TNT. That isn’t what it’s about. It’s about filling up hotels and selling out restaurants around the arena.
@larkraxm
Enough analysis is out there to strongly suggest the money does not work out in taxpayers’ favor, particularly with multi billion dollar NFL stadiums. The only intellectually honest way to sell the stadium is as a luxury good to further civic pride. It is not a money maker.
Not a moneymaker for the taxpayers. It is a moneymaker for the hotels and restaurants and provides jobs in and around the arenas/stadiums. The ROI for the taxpayer will never be realized, but the same could be said of every single municipal project. No city is getting rich by building a bridge, roadway, port, or park. These types of projects are done to support industry and as a measure of civic pride, like you said. I don’t care if individual cities determine what is best for their city. I am simply saying that refusing to pay the shake down to an owner is a mistake if you want to keep your team. If you don’t care if your team relocates, then by all means tell them to get bent. You can’t tell them to get bent and then cry that your team left.
@larkraxm Your second comment better reflected the parties that do see money out of the deal they would not otherwise, i.e. the hotels and the businesses around the stadium.
For better or worse, you’re right that the only option is to pay the ransom or watch the team leave. That’s just the way the world works.
Oakland is as much to blame for the A’s situation as Fisher is. There is a reason they’ve lost all 3 of their professional sports teams in the last 5 years
John Fisher blocked the Raiders from building at the coliseum site in Oakland. Mark Davis has said that publicly.
The Warriors weren’t “lost”. Lacob built a world class mega venue in San Francisco, an iconic world class city that didn’t have a single big event center or pro sports arena.
This narrative is tired.
Fisher is the reason Oakland lost both the A’s and the Raiders.
Do they really think the stadium is the problem? What are they gonna do after the new stadium opens and they still struggle to fill half the seats?
Sell to new owners. Said new owners will do a better job at reaching the local non-snowbird population, advertise more, show commitment to a winning team… To Sternberg it’d just a business, and any risk is too much risk. We don’t buy Jerseys because his brand of baseball is to trade off expensive players for cheaper players. If said players get expensive, they are gone as soon as arb hits. I can’t overstate how difficult it is to connect to the Rays as a fan/potential fan. He practically does nothing and just expects fans to go to the stadium.
Rays – Thank you, I’ve been saying that for years. Stu’s cheapness and resulting player churn is a far bigger reason for the low attendance than stadium location.
Well you will always have Kevin Cash as a familiar face to connect with. If I lived in Tampa I would probably wear a Cash or Lou Piniella jersey to the game lol.
Ignorant – I’d wear either a Boggs, Canseco or Ramirez Rays jersey to the game. At least they were entertaining!
@son
I can’t imagine a more embarrassing situation lol. True Cash will be coaching there until he’s a skeleton, but I wouldn’t say he’s likeable enough to warrant a jersey
Rays – I would think eventually Cash will follow Maddon by leaving for a chance at a title.
This. Evan Longoria should have been a Rays “lifer” at least giving the franchise one, and they still traded him away. You can’t develop a “favorite” player because they’ll be gone in short order and unfortunately this team must be horrendous at vetting because the one player they essentially committed what could have been a “lifetime” deal to may be serving life somewhere else…
Rsox – Ironically the one guy after Longoria that would have been a lifer “wandered” off after less than three seasons.
Portland, Oregon, Montreal, or Salt Lake City Rays sounds fine.
Come on… there aren’t rays in Utah, just like how 20 years ago there weren’t expos in DC
But Utah is known for their jazz… right?
Nor Los Angeles for it’s lakes.
Sad – I see your point, Ray Charles was a jazz icon.
Yeah, Mormons and Jazz are well known to go hand in hand. I much prefer The Tabernacle Choir sound to jazz music anyway
The Rays moniker would likely be dropped however. Instead I could see potential possibilities such as the Salt Lake City Bishops, the Portland Anarchists, or the Montreal Bi-lingualists (Bi-linguals?) as snappy new team identities.
Realistically in a move the MLB would urge the team to make sure they stay nearish in order to avoid reshuffling the league. So west coast seems unlikely… though the very tiny possibility of the Marlins suddenly becoming an AL East team probably has at the fanbases of four teams gnashing their teeth.
Nashville and Charlotte would probably get the most consideration. Montreal… distant third.
Just move the Rays up the road to Orlando, which wants an expansion team, if some way cannot be worked out to keep them in Tampa Bay. Move the owner out of Florida, keep the team.
The Rays already own the rights to Orlando.
This. MLB can’t move a team to the west without someone to take it’s place in the east and realistically they could move the Tigers back to the east but that would mean moving one of the Texas teams to the central which they aren’t going to do. MLB needs expansion for realignment which i believe will eventually happen and there will be an NFL style four 4 team divisions in each league
Montreal, yes. Portland absolutely not. Maybe Portland, Maine. And forget Salt Lake City. Some cities I hear considered for teams makes me wince.
Why absolutely not Portland? It’s the 25th largest market by metro area population, larger than Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, Cincinnati, KC.
Tanpa is 17th, Orlando is 21st. Charlotte is 22nd, Nashville is 35, Salt Lake City is 46th.
Montreal is obviously a different country, with slightly different stats, but their population would be slightly larger than Tampa. There are other financial issues at play though.
Portland is an absolute armpit and calling it an armpit at best is a compliment
Portland makes Seattle look like a utopia
“‘I think given all that’s happened in that market, we’re focused on our franchise in Tampa Bay right now,’ [Manfred] added.”
Meaningless platitude, like how the NFL totally wanted the San Diego Chargers to take a year to work it out in their existing market before coming back to them to exercise their option to join the Rams in LA. Right.
This whole situation feels like it’s all over for the Tampa Bay Rays, and everyone is just posturing.
Brian Scott is lying. The time to do due diligence is before you vote to approve a project, not at the last moment when you know delays will kill the deal by causing large increases in costs.
Pads – The irony is if they decide to repair The Trop then the new stadium would have been delayed a year anyway.
That’s not true. It’s apples and oranges. The new stadium is not going on the same parcel of land as the old stadium. It’s going up near the old stadium.
Mp – If you’re replying to me, Marc and others have already reported it would be impossible to have both construction jobs going on simultaneously so close to each other.
FPG – Yes, I was replying to you. I have not heard that both construction jobs can’t go on simultaneously. That doesn’t really make sense to me either, because one job will require cranes in the air for a handful of months while the other job will be working on the foundation of the new building. Unless the cranes need to be physically located on the site of the new stadium, I would think they could easily be done simultaneously.
mp – This is not my area of expertise, but wouldn’t diverting traffic and having a nearby staging area be difficult with both jobs going on simultaneously?
Anyway here’s the article: tampabay.com/sports/2024/11/12/tropicana-field-dam…
“Groundbreaking for the new stadium was scheduled for January. Delaying it a year would allow for resources to be devoted to repairing the Trop and also prevent the projects from being worked on side by side.”
I work big job construction. Done a few stadiums actually. Not so much of a can’t do it, it’s just really REALLY best not to.
Gotcha. I don’t read the article the way you are interpreting it. I ready it to say that a 1 year delay would allow the same construction crews/equipment to work on both sites, as opposed to needing to hire separate crews/equipment for each site. I don’t read the article as saying they couldn’t work on both projects at the same time.
That makes sense.
I find it telling that Manfred didn’t say that they were focused on KEEPING their franchise in Tampa Bay.
I thought the same thing. Rays relocating to the city of Tampa would be AWESOME! Even better if the city of St. Pete and Pinellas county have to indirectly pay for a big chunk of the costs through the redevelopment fees the Rays are getting under a separate deal with St. Pete/Pinellas.
The Alamodome welcomes you until a new stadium is built b/n SA and Austin 😉
To be honest, here’s the latest on the Rays stadium situation. Nobody f#€king cares.
The fans don’t show up, and MLB and the owner have obviously punted.
You drank some haterade tonight or what?
Yes, we’re tired of reading about a team (and stadium) that apparently no one (other than you) cares about. How’s about cutting us some slack?
You know you don’t have to click on the article, right? The ones you aren’t interested in or find boring just scroll right past my friend. Boom, problem solved and you don’t spread your beautiful attitude, win win.
Then stop reading Rays articles if you’re not a Rays fan.
Finally, we have something to talk about regarding the Rays!
Sir, I was under the impression this was a family oriented blog space. Do I need to adjust the browser settings yet again on the family desktop computer?
@Ignorant Son-of-a-b,
My apologies to the Mrs. and the kids. I meant no disrespect.
Go trolling somewhere else
@mp2,
You don’t mind if I call you mp2? If I go trolling, as you call it, elsewhere, who will subsidize those of you who treat this fine site as a social entitlement program?
This site exists to make money, which it does by having users come to the site to read and comment on its articles, which attracts advertisers who then pay to advertise on the site.
There is no subsidizing or social entitlement going on here (nor do those terms make any sense in context).
Call me whatever you want.
Wow, you must be fun at parties. Thank you for mp2splaining all of this in fabulous detail.
LOL… Again, you are proving you don’t understand the meaning of the words you are using. Mansplaining (or mp2splaining) involves explaining something to someone who already knows what you’re trying to explain to them (ie: assuming a woman is ignorant because of her gender). I’m trying to educate someone who has proved he doesn’t understand what he is saying.
And an adult using the term ‘LOL’ proves my point. Have some self respect.
Tampa Bay [Devil] Rays: 1998-2025
There have been several articles out recently regarding the difficulty of selling a house in Tampa and other cities in Florida. The cost of home insurance (storm damage) is among the reasons. I know little about the real estate situation in Florida, but perhaps the Ray’s owner does and is just getting ahead of the curve on this issue. Perhaps the politicians in the area are as well. It indeed may not be the best time to invest in a large entertainment venue.
The water table is effed.
Once again we have another rich guy asking for Socialism for the rich oligarchs of MLB & the US. No, no more tax cash for rich guys. Go ahead and move somewhere else. At some point American MLB fans and taxpayers with no interest in baseball are going to have to wake up and stop being blackmailed and forced to give out millions to billionaires. Want taxpayer cash? Taxpayers own all or a piece of the team. Simple. This is nothing new. Lots of soccer clubs, Packers, and O’s (used to be) owned by fans. We don’t need a handful of rich greedy guys screaming for socialism for them while workers get hammered.
Lets Go….Expos!! 2.0
Taxpayers should not be paying for a stadium anywhere.
They do, as long as there are more cities than franchises.
Let em try and move if taxpayers aren’t footing the bill anywhere.
The big o in Montreal getting a 800millions renovation right now an should be ready for 2028
I don’t know but date match
“… owner Stuart Sternberg criticized local officials for postponing bond votes to approve the public financing to construct a new stadium…”
Or:
Greedy billionaire oligarch attacks taxpayers for not gifting him large sums of their hard-earned money fast enough.
walls- You got it.
Final votes that were supposed to take place before the election have been postponed now multiple times derailing the timeline that was already extraordinarily tight. It’s interesting that Brian Scott, for some reason, did not mention that one of the delays was due to extortion tactics by Chris Latvala that the team refused to succumb to. He wanted the 2025 season played at the stadium of one of his rich benefactors and derailed the process when he did not get what he wanted.
There have been years to do overarching due diligence and several months to set in place the final work. The team is on the hook for all cost overruns and the city just added at least $100M to that figure so to say that extra time doesn’t impact the timeline is disingenuous, at best, and actionable, at worst. It’s really sad to see these small town grifters ascend to positions of authority and immediately start trying to carve out their own slices. When the team leaves there will be many fingers pointed in every direction, but the team has given the city every opportunity to make good on a fair deal. That they have not at virtually any opportunity is the story here.
Go to Oakland, becoming the Oakland Devil Rays, drop the Rays after a couple years, we got the Oakland Devils.
I was hoping you were going with the Oakland Deviled Eggs, but I like the Oakland Devils.
How about San Juan, Puerto Rico? Or maybe Mexico City?
MLB needs to engineer a deal where the Rays buy Steinbrenner Field from the Yankees and make that the permanent home. Add a second level and bleachers then the capacity can be somewhere around 25-30K. The problem for the Rays is that nobody wants to cross the bridge into St. Pete to go to the games. Steinbrenner Field is the perfect location.
Rays need a roof, so Steinbrenner would need to be replaced.
Both sides of this thing seem about as stupid as they come. That location clearly doesn’t work for a stadium, yet they all decided to build a new one in basically the same spot. I sort of gave up caring at that point.
While there’s never a good time for billionaires to ask for tax dollars, immediately following a devastating hurricane is about the worst time possible.
He needs to shut up and act like he’s part of and cares about the community at large instead of complaining about his ballpark.
He has and never will care about the area. It reflects the Rays in general. They gave up on the community ages ago to save dollars. That’s why outside fans don’t know why the Rays don’t have a strong fanbase. Not only location or lack of interest, but rather the owner has no love for the area or competitive baseball. It shines through in the Rays’ moves. Now I’m glad people can understand what an awful owner he is and how much he neglected growing the Rays brand… All for the sake of the almighty dollar. Bucs and Lightning don’t just play in better locations… Their owners are willing to spend to be competitive, and most games are sellouts.
Why is getting hundreds of millions of dollars in public assistance so hard?
This is a good time for Tampa officials to step up and broker a deal for a downtown Stadium (with a dome) to be ready by 2029. Tampa, as the population center of the area has always made the most sense. And starting with a clean set of plans makes the most sense instead of building next to a St. Pete venue most people consider a failure.
100% agree
Looking more and more likely they are going to be moving out of Tampa. Who wants to play baseball outside in Flordia – Florida has never been great at supporting their MLB teams anyways
Not necessarily. They may be moving from St. Pete to Tampa.
They will still be playing outside where they won’t be drawing fans and the white players will be getting 3rd degree sunburns
Mannfred meets the needs of the owners, period. They don’t care about fans or taxpayers. See Oakland
As much of a Rays fan as I am, this could be a blessing in disguise and Rays fans in FL need to be patient. $tu has already shown he won’t pay to keep home grown talent, won’t spend on elite free agents, and won’t go all-in at the trade deadline when he has a good team. The stadium is in a bad location in St. Pete, as fans living in Tampa won’t come out. Studies have shown 90% of a teams attendance comes from within a 50-mile radius of the stadium. Half of that radius is in the Gulf of Mexico.
These factors make St. Pete a bad place for a team, not to mention all the retirees in FL with other allegiances and no fanship for the Rays.
Best case scenario is that the team gets a stadium in Tampa or Orlando. Maybe a group will help fund th e stadium to keep them in the area. That still won’t force $tu to spend, so I’m almost ready for him to take the team and leave. Let the Nashville (whatever he decides to call the team) be $tu’s cash cow and he can see them make a first round playoff exit every year.
I’m sure a group from Orlando will try to get an expansion team, and if they can get the stadium (or make modifications to Wide World of Sports @ Disney), as long as it has an owner who will spend, the team will be successful and win a title before Tampa/Nashville does. Orlando is more central and will draw fans from Tampa, Daytona, central Florida, plus you have the mounds of tourists who will take in a game during a trip. If the owner spends, players will stay with the team for more than 4-5 years, loyalty will develop, and the retired folks will die out and you will have fans that are fans of the normal team as a majority of the crowd in the stadium. If $tu isn’t going to spend and wants out of St. Pete, to hell with him! He can take his team somewhere else, and I’ll bide my time for 20 years or so, root for Detroit (maybe even Miami), get the expansion team and maybe an owner that spends, and I’ll finally attend a World Series game in central Florida and see a title for a team I follow.
As much as I want Stu out of Tampa Bay, if the Rays leave then I’m positive TB will never get another baseball team again. These days I don’t think sports leagues want to spend money in areas that already lost teams.
The latest, this afternoon, is that the Rays consider the new stadium in St. Pete to be off the drawing board. The county council and St. Pete’s council voted to delay bond sales for the stadium. Later the St. Pete’s council voted to remove money for fixing the Trop roof, after approving it earlier in the day.
Start from zero.
This latest news seals it. There will be no baseball in St Pete.
No ball at Tropicana Field in 2026; new ballpark deal dies: Rays wfla.com/sports/rays/st-pete-council-approves-23m-…
Sternberg and his partners at Hines Corp. will still get all that land at bargain basement prices and redevelopment rights as well as $81 million in infrastructure improvements, a stadium will just not be a part of it.
The Rays now need to look for a new home starting in 2026.
Crazy how much of an impact mother nature is having on the game right now
Really baseball is a pretty minor casualty of the hurricane. The Giants/A’s played through a massive earthquake: the A’s had the class to do a lower key celebration without champagne.
I haven’t been following in great detail, but what is stopping the parties in this situation from having the Rays continue playing in the Trop for a few more year? I know it’s considered a grungy stadium (I have never been there) but it’s still a MLB sized stadium.
There is no drainage inside the stadium and it rains quite a bit in Florida.