The Cardinals’ reset isn’t likely to feature trades of Willson Contreras or Sonny Gray — both have no-trade clauses and reportedly prefer to remain in St. Louis — but they’ll still have some big names on the market. Among them could be third baseman Nolan Arenado. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes that the Cards will spend the next couple weeks gauging which teams have interest in Arenado and getting a feel for what might be available in a trade. If there’s anything compelling that comes from those early talks, they’ll approach Arenado about his openness to waiving his no-trade clause for a trade to the location(s) in question.
Arenado, 34 in April, is signed for another three seasons and owed a total of $74MM in that time. The Rockies are on the hook for $10MM of that sum ($5MM in 2025 and $5MM in 2026), which helps to make the contract a bit more enticing. The 10-time Gold Glove winner and six-time Platinum Glove recipient remains a premium defender at the hot corner, but while Arenado was an MVP finalist in 2022, his past two seasons at the plate have been far less impressive. He’s still been an above-average hitter, but not by a wide margin. Since Opening Day 2023, Arenado carries a .269/.320/.426 batting line (104 wRC+).
Once a perennial threat for 30 to 40 home runs, Arenado has seen his power diminish considerably over the past two years. This past season’s .123 ISO (slugging percentage minus batting average) was a career-low mark. The 16 home runs he tallied in 635 plate appearances and 152 games are his fewest since he hit only 10 long balls as a rookie in 2013 (albeit in a smaller sample of 133 games/514 plate appearances).
Arenado’s contact skills remain excellent, but even the 15.5% strikeout rate he’s posted since 2023 is up from the 13.2% rate he posted in the four preceding seasons. He’s never been one to walk at an especially high clip, but Arenado drew a free pass in 9.1% of his plate appearances from 2016-22 — compared to just 6.8% in 2023-24. This past season’s average exit velocity (86.3 mph), barrel rate (3.2%) and hard-hit rate (31.2%) were all well shy of league-average and easily career-low numbers.
The downturn in offensive output, combined with a relatively weighty salary and Arenado’s no-trade rights, all complicate the paths to a potential deal being brokered. The extent to which that no-trade provision will come into play is an open question, but there’s reason to think it might not be the hurdle such clauses often are. Arenado’s exit in Colorado was prompted in part by his frustration over the team’s inability to field a competitive roster. He passed on an opt-out opportunity in contract after a third-place NL MVP finish in 2022 partly because he prioritized playing for a contending club and expected the Cardinals to be just that.
While a trade of Arenado is far, far from a sure thing, there are plenty of teams who’ll be in the mix for third base help. The Yankees, Mariners, Astros (if Alex Bregman leaves), Blue Jays, Tigers and Royals all have reasonably straightforward vacancies at the position. If Pete Alonso signs elsewhere in free agency, the Mets could move Mark Vientos to first base and enter the third base market. The Dodgers don’t need a third baseman but have been linked to Arenado frequently over the years.
If the Cardinals do move on from Arenado, it’ll gel with their offseason goal of opening more playing time for young talent. They’ve already committed to moving Contreras to first base in order to create at-bats for 24-year-old Ivan Herrera behind the dish. Dealing Arenado could open reps for Jordan Walker at his natural position — his attempted move from third base to the outfield hasn’t played out particularly well — or for Nolan Gorman. It’d also trim a notable amount of money off the books in each of the next three years, perhaps allowing the Cards to spend a bit more freely when they eventually look to emerge from the current retooling effort.
bkbk
Arte Moreno has had to change his pants three times hes so excited about absorbing this contract. Hes reading this post doing the thing that flys do with their hands.
Bauer? But I Hardly Know Her!
For Luis Renigfo straight up, no salary relief.
Troutahni
Save my post. Rengifo will bat over.310 next season with an OBA over. 370, hit 20 home runs, 40 doubles, 5 triples and steal 25 bags His BAIP wasn’t luck. He has a strategy every time he goes to the dish. I’ve watched ever game he had playe over the last few years. He has good vs at control and knows hit to hit where they ain’t. His growth has been slow and arduous. He has shown tremendous growth. He is definitely the catalyst of Angels offense. Real Angel fans are salivating for Rengifo to have his breakout season and i feel strongly he stays healthy and could become an All-Star this season.
kellin
@trout His breakout season should have been 2024 before he got hurt. He was showing that regular playing time makes him a good player. I will be disappointed if he gets traded like the rumors suggest, but if they bring back something decent in return, then fine. I just don’t have any idea who could play 3rd, we surely cant rely on Rendon.
Jswag
Rather have renigfo then
Holee Cow!
Cardinals better be ready to eat a big portion of that remaining salary if they expect to move him.
ohyeadam
Setting the over/under at $35m
wileycoyote56
No I think Detroit would trade even up for a SS lol
Melchez17
Maeda would be worth it.. Maeda and some prospect combo would solve 3B problem for the next 3 years.
thebirds
Colorado still paying off 50 million bud
17dizzy
Should the Cardinals move on from Arenado, as they should, they should initially go with Walker at 3rd Base.
At this point … Nolan Gorman is a 200+ strikeout man per year. His walk rate is well below 7%.
Sure …. Given the chance to play everyday … he’ll hit 25-30 home runs a year. Gorman is still a liability at the plate. A rally killer because of his strikeout tendencies!!
(Gorman needs to either be traded or kept in the minor leaves to become a better contact hitter).
Donavan is actually the best of the current players to place at 3rd Base defensively. But he’s too valuable of a utility man with Tommy Edman gone. Plus, too good of a contact hitter to keep out of the lineup so others who are less capable can play.
17dizzy
John Mozeliak has told Arenado one lie after another about building the Cardinals franchise up to be National League title contenders to keep him from opting out of his contract!!!
As soon as Arenado opted in, Mozeliak quit trying enemies to make it appear the team would be strong enough to win anything.
I hope Arenado sticks with the Cardinals just so Mozeliak has to Eat all of Arenaldo’s salary to get him moved!!!!!
getrealgone2
Ok, that was good, bkbk.
towinagain
Trade him to the Padres and move him to first. Have Arraez DH. What an infield!
Yeah a highly implausible idea but fun to think about.
thebirds
What a waste of time. Cardinals should have done this rebuild years ago. Now they will go with the young’s guys and drop the payroll only to convince themselves they have the best future in baseball and don’t need to spend money to win.. they will just need “patience from the fans”. lol
Blackpink in the area
The Cardinals were a 93 win team in 2022 and Arenado was an MVP candidate.
Seamaholic
Yep. It was his best year, statistically. But he really looked like he’s lost his hand speed last year, and it affected both offense and defense. He was always an odd hitter. All his power is the pull side and it comes from his freakily fast hands on inside hard stuff. If that’s gone, I wouldn’t expect him to even be league average going forward.
Blackpink in the area
His defense looks to be in decline. He is/was having problems with his shoulder. Is that going to get better? I really dont know but my guess is it doesn’t.
He takes bad at bats. His approach to hitting is flawed. I don’t think it’s a physical issue I think he tries too hard and doesn’t think.
FrontOfficeStan
Could be shoulder causing the lack of hand speed, could be something else, including deteriorating vision. He’s at the age where vision does begin to decline, and players at this level respond differently to different stages of life. What we might think is a result of fast hands, could be overly dependent on early identification of pitches / good eye sight and processing. Even a very small amount of decline in eye sight could cause major decline in performance when we’re talking about pro sports. I would expect that to be evaluated regularly, so maybe it is an off the wall thought.
17dizzy
Even Prennial All-Star players have a tough time playing at their top level when they see … Year after Year … that their President of baseball operations and Owners could care less about winning a Division anymore.
It’s hard for any of the players to get up for any game, knowing the Organization as a whole … could care less if they won.
VonPurpleHayes
And 2023 they were terrible. The 23 trade deadline was the time to trade Goldy and more for solid pieces.
Blackpink in the area
Hindsight
thebirds
And how that team finish? Yep, that’s what I thought.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
Why should they have done a rebuild “years ago?” Goldschmidt and Arenado finished 1st and 3rd in the MVP just 2 years ago and won 93 games. They also had/have a good mix of young talent on the roster.
I do think Marmol is the worst manager in baseball and don’t understand why they keep him around though. I’d argue if they got rid of him and replaced him with Shumaker they’d be competitively next year.
kellin
Wait, so the worst manager in baseball isn’t Boone? Also, Schumaker isn’t available, he got hired as a special assistant for the Rangers.
RodBecksBurnerAccount
I’m well aware Schumaker had to take a position as special assistant instead of remaining a manager. I guarantee if the Cardinals called him today to take over as manager, he’d accept the job, especially with his ties to the franchise.
Also Boone was just in the World Series.
Do you have any serious commentary or are you just a troll?
17dizzy
I’ve never seen the Fans abandon the Cardinals as they did after the All-Star break as happened at Busch Stadium III in 2024!!!
Everyone knows why the Fans abandoned Busch Stadium III in 2024!!!
Instead of top Quality players being signed to fill the Cardinals team’s needs during the Offseason and at the Trading deadlines ——John Mozeliak is continually waisting the Owners money on poor quality and over the hill baseball players instead of spending the funds wisely!!!
Oli Marmol is the “worst manager” in Baseball. John Mozeliak is the “Worst President / GM of Baseball operations” in the Major Leagues!!!
However —- The Absolute worst thing is —— The Cardinals Ownership Does Not Care!!!!!
As the spokesman for the Cardinals Ownership — Bill DeWitt III is sticking up for Mozeliak and Marmol’s every move!!!
Even after witnessing the 200,000 lose of fan Attendance in 2024.
Bill DeWitt III… sees it as just a way to justify cutting team spending!!!
Bill DeWitt III actually does know the real reason why the fans quit attending!!!
The actual reason being ….. John Mozeliak … during the Offseason and at all trading deadlines —- refuses to address the Cardinals Teams needs with Quality Players!!! Mozeliak hasn’t
Jared a Quality Manager since Tony LaRussa left after the 2011 season!!
Mozeliak remained with his philosophy of obtaining “Low Hanging Fruit Players” to address the Cardinals needs. Thus adverting any Quality players to build around Goldschmidt and Arenado.
Mozeliak has driven the Cardinals Franchise to an all time low. Destroying the Historic Cardinals Organization.
Why
Mozeliak
gravel
Do you write fundraising letters? You should write fundraising letters.
Joggin’George
St. Louie doesn’t do rebuilds. Traditionally it’s been so well run it hasn’t had to.
The 90’s got a bit frustrating.
17dizzy
You hit the nail on the head about the 90’s.
I also remember the 50’s with Dolly Hemus!
Hemus would be proud if he were still alive!!
The Cardinals now have a worst manager than he was in Oli Marmol!!!
If you will trace the players back since the turn of the century. The Cardinals haven’t had to rebuild or even think about a rebuild until all of Walt Jockerty’s and Tony LaRussa’s players have either quit playing, we’re traded or simply just retired.
Those players would make great Cardinals coaches!!! Instilling how to keep adding to an already winning roster with Quality players filling gaps of departing Quality players!!!
John Mozeliak could not ever catch on how to do that effectively. Thus the Cardinals current situation heading to there rebuild.
Champs64
Dizzy, I wish Whitey was still here and could comment on this mess.
bangarangbooty
I like Arenado, and sometimes I’m still amazed that the Cardinals were ever able to land him to begin with. However, he has been extremely frustrating to watch the past couple of seasons. He seldom swings with authority anymore, instead shortening his swing to the point of check swinging more than anyone I’ve ever seen. Even worse, he’s one of the least clutch hitters I’ve ever seen. He completely lacks confidence at the plate. That, combined with his lack of leadership, makes me fine with the Cardinals letting him go.
Johnny Devil
Arenando is not going anywhere.
Bucket Number Six
Watch. They might have to pay that $50 million they got with him in order to get a decent prospect.
bigdaddyt
I what would you say to a George Springer and a couple minor prospect
LordD99
True, but Arenado will.
El Kabong
Thanks. I’ll forward your ringing endorsement to the other 29 teams. That’ll make it easy for the Cardinals to find a trade partner.
playhard9
Such a true statement. Still shocking that he got traded to St. Louis but def a supplemental type player, not a leader, not a 3 or 4 hole hitter. I think he starts pulling the ball again and he could be great again as a Dodger or Yankee.
Troutahni
Not hitting with authority was Brandon Drury’s mantra this past season I’ve never seen a player end a rally as quickly this past year. The only player to equal his feats of incompetence was Hunter Renfroe with his time on the Angels in 2023.
Samuel
bangarangbooty;
This is the problem with the long-term contracts that MLBTR and others celebrate.
Sure, the team gets a prime player for the first few years – assuming he doesn’t get injured. But at some point the reality of age kicks in.
Say what you want about the Rockies, but like the Marlins did with the contract for Stanton they gave him a long-term contract to keep him for a few years, then stuck that contract on a dumb FO that actually thought the guy would be a superstar for the length of it. Arenado has been an above average player the past 2 years. However, he’s being paid like a superstar in his prime. And he’s going to continue to be paid like a super star for the next 3 years. John Mozeliak has left Chaim Bloom a bunch of overpaid, underperforming players that have contracts that other teams will only take on if the Cardinals pay money and/or trade them decent major leagues to even up the salary. And a few of those players no team wants on their roster anyway.
What’s lost in all this? The fans of the teams involved. They have to sit around for 2-3 years while their team punts because the team is stuck with awful contracts that affect the moves they can make. Like taking energy drinks: When the caffeine wears off the crash comes….
just eat healthy.
letsgooakland123
Trading Arenado could be the baseball equivalent of pawning your vintage guitar to fund piano lessons for your kid—bold, painful, and risky, but hey, at least the Cardinals might end up with a few more harmonious hits in the future.
Don'tBeDumb
Arenado sucks at guitar, got it
Blackpink in the area
Article yesterday by Katie Woo discussing how the Cardinals are not selling off the team. Why is it that article wasn’t shared on thos site yet this one was?
Stop trolling me. I need to find something better to do than waste my time on this site.
RoastGobot
Boo
Hoo
Blackpink in the area
I said Woo not boo hoo
Lindor's Bodyguard
Black’s specialty is whining. He’s the mlbtr blog whining expert.
Seamaholic
They might well get better by trading Arenado. Likely in fact, It would clear $30m a year to sign someone else (Max Fried and more?), get Walker and/or Gorman back to where they’re comfortable, and avoid counting on a guy who’s clearly in deep decline. It’s not a sell off. And in the end he might be demanding a trade anyway (which he’s done before of course).
Blackpink in the area
I don’t think Walker belongs anywhere near 3b. Gorman maybe but there better be a backup plan in place. Gorman, Donovan and Saggese is probably enough at 3b although I would want a 3b prospect in a trade somewhere along the line.
As far as 2025 plans perhaps use some of the Arenado money for Scherzer. Then the team could theoretically contend in 2024 but if it doesn’t they can sell at the deadline.
ih8tepaperstraws
Scherzer’s K/9 was way down last year. He too is done.
Blackpink in the area
Maybe he’s toast maybe playing for his hometown revitalizes him. It’s gonna take a long shot for the Cardinals to compete in 2025 so yeah I would give him a shot.
eatonculo
I was going to mention that too. Walker isn’t agile enough to play 3B in the Major Leagues.
I could maybe see him playing 1B, but they should have started that transition years ago. (Same as they should have done with RF.)
If he played football, he’d make a better LT or DE than a TE. He has speed, but can’t stop or cut very well. (I’ll have that Dylan Carlson collision in my mind for a long time.)
playhard9
Mo/DeWitt had the chance to get Scherzer long ago but chose not to and chased Stanton & Heyward instead. Fortunately they missed. Biggest fail they ever made when Max wanted to come here instead of Washington. That ship has sailed unless he wants to come here for peanuts since he has banked plenty.
Daryl Pauley
Like all Cardinal fans I think we can contend in ’25 also. I think the reality is we will not contend , probably finishing last in our own division.
We could rebuild the development system and the team and contend all at the same time. Witt and MO will not do that.
Go Cardinals.
Charlie'sSinging
Not sure Scherzer pitching 10-12 games of decent ball next year will really help them win.
Blackpink in the area
Take a chance on Scherzer. If he pitched well and the team doesn’t play well as a whole then he can be traded for something good. If he pitches poorly or gets hurt then oh well he retired a Cardinal.
ih8tepaperstraws
This Cardinals fan does not think they can contend in 2025. Nor in ‘26 or ‘27. Not as long as either Mozaliak or Bloom are here. Bloom is the right guy for the job. But his job is not to build a winner, it’s to be the bad guy and cut payroll down to the bare minimum and get out of town.
L Francis Reves
Scherzer is done.
stymeedone
I wouldn’t count on them freeing up all $30MM. They would need to pay some of that contract down to move him.
Blackpink in the area
That’s why i suggested the Yankees adding Lemahieu. Or banned Mets fan suggested Jeff McNeil I like that idea too.
Daryl Pauley
I’m gonna disagree with that.cause MO has a record of making one-sided trades.
Charlie'sSinging
They’re not buying anything but maybe a cheap veteran role player or two in order to mentor young guys. No one that will truly help them win now will be added. Besides, they won’t clear that much payroll. First, the Cards only owe him an average of about $21 mil/yr moving forward. Second, they will have to eat salary in any trade. Trading him MIGHT save them about $15 mil/yr…maybe.
John Madden’s neck coochie
They already announced they’re cutting payroll next year (and realistically the next 2-3). They aren’t making any signings outside of bullpen help and back of the roster moves.
Gwynning
Here’s a Padre beach towel for your tears, Joel!
realist101
Mo also said this (from an article at MLB.com):
“I’ve spoken with everyone, and most have indicated that they want to be a part of this,” said Mozeliak, who plans to cede his duties as president of baseball operations to adviser Chaim Bloom in 2026. “I have had an individual ask me to explore a few things, so we will try to do that. But I suspect that that’s for between now and Winter Meetings. … I’d prefer to not name that [player] for leverage in terms of trying to do something with him [in a trade].”
Widely speculated that’s Arenado.
Blackpink in the area
Yeah glad you mentioned that yes that does add credibility to the Arenado rumors and yes I agree that’s who it is.
LordD99
Mo did not help his leverage because everyone knows it’s Arenado, and if they don’t know for sure now, they will as soon as he mentions his name in trades. Odd statement on his part.
fred-3
Waited about a year and half too late. They could’ve got a good young pitcher if they traded him then. Now, it’s just a salary dump.
stymeedone
So you’re saying they should have traded him when they were favored to win the division because of him and Goldy? Nice Twenty-twenty hindsight!
fred-3
stymeedone, they were awful a year and a half ago. I’m talking about around the summer of 2023, when they had no chance at making the postseason after that awful start.
realist101
Perhaps the team tried, but a mid-season deal couldn’t come together?
Arenado had a lot of years and money left on his deal at that point: 4 years, and add ~$28 million (net of Rockies money) for his 2024 salary to the numbers in this article. That’s a big contract to move mid-season.
Though Cardinals could – and maybe should – have tried to trade him in the 2023-24 offseason.
JoeBrady
fred-3
Waited about a year and half too late.
=============================
I said the exact same thing a year and a half ago. Goldie and Arenado should have been traded at the 2023 trade deadline.
1-They were decent, but declining.
2-The Cards were toast.
3-You eat some salary and hope to get a decent prospect(s)
4-It gives you the opportunity to move Gorman to 3B and Donavan or Walker at 1st.
To me, the issue with the 2023 Cards was that they had more players than they had positions, and they were spending $61M on two guys that weren’t much better than their replacements would’ve been.
juggernaut
The Mets saw the writing on the wall and moved both Verlander and Scherzer when the St. Louis Cardinals didn’t move their pricy veterans, and now both organizations are in different stages because of it.
Armaments216
Cardinals to measure Arenado’s number, gauge team chemistry.
OfficerCarlWinslow
He’s going to the Yankees so they can add another past his prime star player with Rizzo (and likely Lemahieu) gone! Carrying on the Yankees tradition!
– CW
Troutahni
Cardinals fans have the reputation of being the smartest fans of all fan bases. Never try to dupe their fans. They will call you out on it.
BTW :Rizzo is a free agent. I think he is going to retire, but that’s my opinion. It apps age and injury has zapped him off his power, but he can take a walk.
kevnames42
@officercarlwinslow Good thing you put your initials at the end, otherwise I wouldn’t have known who posted!
joew
I wouldn’t be opposed to a Nolan for keybryan Hayes headline. I’ve grown weary of waiting for Hayes to be healthy and consistent when he is needed to be. He has great potential though.
Other pieces would determine if it would make sense but moving Hayes to bring in something you can count on to be in the field and not hold the offense back wouldn’t be the worst thing for a win now attitude.
PunkRockies
Even the Pirates wouldn’t be that dumb
Troutahni
What happened to Hayes this past season? It appeared he was finally getting much better as a hitter, but seems to have lost it? I know he was on the IL often last season, but his performance dropped way off.
joew
@trout he can’t get on base, isn’t consistent and always injured. Good potential and cheap though.
Seamaholic
Why would the Cards do that? They have two natural 3B in Gorman and Walker just waiting for the chance to go back there.
Charlie'sSinging
In fairness, Kebryan is about as good as it gets defensively at 3B, and the Cards could really use some more players who can actually field their position.
joew
while this is generally true, a gold glove caliber 3rd basemen is nice to have, if they are on the field. he’s been in the league for mostly four full seasons (not counting 2020) and hasn’t hit 140 games and only one of those full seasons was an average bat. He is always playing hurt or injured as well. that might be part of his consistency problems
He is a high reward player with the potential to be a above average bat with a gold glove, it just comes down to if the pirates want to wait and see if he is can stay healthy. a couple 130 game seasons in a row will increase his value both to the team and to any market that may arise.
juggernaut
Jordan Walker, if given the chance to return to 3B, would be a solid, not outstanding, defender in a couple of years. Austin Riley struggled at 3B for the Braves until he didn’t anymore, and the Braves were all the wiser and better because of their patience and commitment to him. Nolan Gorman could possibly get better as well at 3B. Both players wouldn’t be Arenado defensively at 3B but serviceable or better given the time at their natural position! IMO
Four4fore
Seattle along with Helsley for one of their starting pitchers?
kws001
The Mariners might be willing to move Castillo, but he’s the only one. It would take an act of Congress to get any of those other guys from DiPoto. I get it because run prevention is important, but he needs to balance it out some.
Seamaholic
Seattle is the first team I thought of, too, but I’m gonna guess Arenado would say no. Unless the M’s tack a year on or something, which would be crazy dumb. Having observed him for years, Arenado is a crusty, intense, kind of jerky dude. Nothing wrong with that. Many great players are. But he’s not gonna say yes to a team he doesn’t want to play for, or a city he doesn’t want to play in.
goob
The Puget Sound area is a spectacular place to live.
cardinalred
I would agree with this, but for Hancock and not any of the other top of the rotation guys. Arenado, Helsley, Fedde, and Crooks for Hancock and a couple of guys a few years away in their team top 15, like Celesten and Sloan. Next year would be a great year to see if Gorman or Walker could play at 3B.
Four4fore
Pages rather than Crooks I think they values Crooks bat too much to move on this quickly. I was looking at a Hancock,and maybe a Brash type return with the Cardinals sending some cash.
Four4fore
and that’s without adding Fedde.
Devlsh
Hancock? Seriously? I MIGHT deal Arenado straight up for Hancock, with the Mariners eating most of the money. but to include one of the best closers AND a SP who quite frankly may be the equal if not better than Hancock AND the Cardinals #5 prospect for that package isn’t even a starting point in the discussions.
cardinalred
May have been a little light, but the Cards wouldn’t want to pay down any of the $64 million they are on the hook for in that scenario. Brash would be a nice add to the armchair GM offer I stated, while leaving Fedde in. Crooks and Bernal are very similar and both need on the 40-man in a year, so I went with the younger switch hitter in that case. No way they carry 5 catchers on the 40 man a year from now. The prospects in the return would be the main goal if they pan out,
Four4fore
I think for the Cardinals to get the most from the catching surplus they should be looking at doing something with the Marlins. Marlins need catchers and have pitching they appear to be willing to deal. As far as Fedde I think he’s around until the deadline if getting the most for him is the goal. The TV deal is done so I think cutting payroll is less of an issue than it looked like a few days ago.
JoeBrady
Four4fore
Seattle along with Helsley for one of their starting pitchers?
=========================
I doubt that Seattle is looking to replace Munoz.
Four4fore
Not replacing Munoz, in addition to Munoz. Locks down the 8th & 9th.
Lindor's Bodyguard
No chance on the Mets.
blakestreet
My guess is that Arenado will be traded to the Dodgers. He’d likely approve it, since he was born in the LA area. Plus, he’d be an improvement over Muncy.
El Kabong
Bad guess. Muncy is a good player, reasonaly priced, and has one year left on his deal. The Dodgers would be dumb to trade for Arenado’s contract. Andrew Friedman isn’t dumb. The Dodgers just won the World Series without Arenado.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Muncy has been hurt a lot. Arenado could get 400 ABs at 3B.
Arenado can still be productive If you make him more of a platoon player IMHO
Blackpink in the area
I am sure that Arenado would like to play for the Dodgers. As you said he’s from the area and of course they just won a championship. But the Dodgers do have Muncy and Muncy would have no place to play.
El Kabong
@Blackpink,
The Dodgers can afford to sit this one out.
Who do you think would be a realistic trade partner for Arenado if the Cardinals want to trade him? It wouldn’t be a straight salary dump since the other team would obviously want him as their third baseman.
Blackpink in the area
Yankees get
Arenado
Nootbaar
King
Cardinals get
Dominguez
Lemahieu
Lemahieus contract helps pay for Arenado. Yankees get Nootbaar as Verdugos replacement. Cardinals get a ready to play outfielder who hopefully can live up to the hype.
El Kabong
Not bad. The Yankees would probably add a prospect as a lottery ticket. The Yankees payroll would be immense, but Arenado and Stanton would come off the books after the 2027 season (assuming the Yankees buy out Stanton for $10M prior to 2028).
Seamaholic
Nootbaar is the best player in that deal currently, just so you know. That seems like a LOT for Dominguez and a negative asset. I know the Yankees think Dominguez is the next Mickey Mantle, but he’s not THAT good.
ih8tepaperstraws
Yankees wouldn’t Dominguez. He’s been a monster in the minors when healthy. He’s had some legit and bad luck injuries. When he can stay healthy he’ll be in their lineup next year.
Blackpink in the area
I think Dominguez can do about what Nootbaar does in 2025. Maybe Dominguez improves maybe he doesnt. But i think. That’s about neutral. Obviously Arenado is better than Lemahieu.
ih8tepaperstraws
Nootbaar and Dominguez are nowhere near the same player. Nootbaar has no power and his OPS is misleading because of his high walk rate. The Martian is a beast with 40+ HR potential with speed. And Dominguez will only turn 22 in February and has not yet accrued one year of service time.
Blackpink in the area
Nootbaar has power and he would certainly have more playing at Yankee stadium. Yes Dominguez has potential. Sometimes that’s realized sometimes it’s not. I will say it again for 2025 I think you could expect similar results from those players. The hope for the Cardinals would be Dominguez gets better over time
ih8tepaperstraws
Nootbaar has 10-15 HR power like almost every other hitter in the league. Dominguez slugs 200 points higher. Dominguez is the 14th ranked prospect in all of baseball. He’s a legit 5 tool player in Center Field. The two have never nor will ever be thought of as comparable players. Much less should Nootbaar ever be thought of as the best player in a trade that would involve the two.
StudWinfield
Are you high?
Blackpink in the area
Yeah Winfield probably
How good do you think Dominguez is gonna be? Good gosh man your team was 3 wins away from a championship.
StudWinfield
They would have been 1 away if they didn’t have the worst (game 5) and another top 10 choke (game 1) in WS history, lol. I think JD can be a good everyday OF’er. A good Aaron Hicks but longer than Hicks was good. Him, Wells and Volpe can be solid regulars but not superstars.
Blackpink in the area
Ok well what do you think Nootbaar is? I think they are similar players in 2025. Swapping Lemahieu for Arenado is a big win for the Yankees.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
StL doesn’t make that deal and take DJL. Bloom has good judgement. (Mookie trade was forced on him)
If StL doesn’t get a good deal for Arenado they will keep him and maybe try again to trade him at the AS Break
The Martian is unproven, potential is one thing. Didn’t they say his defense is just average or definitely not CF caliber
If Bregman doesn’t come back, HOU would take Arenado as long as prospect price was reasonable
Seattle definitely has a need but Nolan would probably block like another commenter said.
Blackpink in the area
You take Lemahieu but get Dominguez who makes league minimum. So that balances out a bit. I wouldn’t count on him much in center I would go out and get Michael Taylor to help in center.
Maybe Arenado would accept a deal to Houston. It’s really not a matter of prospects if the Astros want to pay most of his salary.
realist101
“his OPS is misleading because of his high walk rate”
Not following this logic.
A point of OBP is more valuable than a point of SLG. That’s why I prefer to look at wRC+ (at Fangraphs) instead of OPS/OPS+
ih8tepaperstraws
It’s not usually a good sign if your on base is 100+ points higher than your batting average if you don’t have the power to offset it or have the speed to steal frequently. Lars has neither. It means sitting on 1B too much. The probably of scoring from 1st base with no outs is only 18%, it goes down with every out. It also means your walking too much which means your not driving in RBI. It works for players like Schwarber and Soto because when they aren’t walking, they are hitting doubles or HRs. Nootbaar is barely a league average player if not below. His stats require a deeper dive.
ih8tepaperstraws
Not normally during the day. The Yankees play Judge in CF every day, Dominguez is a better defensive option there. The only real knock on Dominguez is he only 5’9”. But so is Mookie Betts.
DirtyWater04
Bloom does not have good judgement.
Made zero effort to retain Schwarber. Replaced Bogaerts with Story. Garrett Richards was awful. Conversely their other bargain basement find Wacha was actually phenomenal, so they made no effort to retain him. As bad as he’s been the last two years, had they just let Benintendi play out his arb years and walk as a free agent they would have received more value than their side of the return in that trade has created so far. Whitlock was an amazing rule 5 find but they’ve wasted multiple years of his career trying to shoehorn him into the rotation when he clearly doesn’t belong there. Didn’t trade Martinez, Eovaldi, et. al at the 2022 trade deadline when they clearly weren’t trying or going to make the playoffs. Traded Hunter Renfroe for Jackie Bradley Jr. Never developed an ounce of pitching or defense despite being brought in to re-emphasize internal player development.
He was clearly not part of the brain trust in Tampa. He’s in way over his head. Good luck with that.
Seamaholic
He actually grew up a Yankees fan.
BlueSkies_LA
Muncy could be moved back to 2B if the Dodgers are really thinking of Betts as the primary SS. Lux then becomes a trade piece. Seems like kind of a long shot, but it can be made to work.
El Kabong
If Mookie rejoins the infield, I prefer him at 2B and Muncy at 3B. The Dodgers don’t have a pressing 2025 need for Arenado and his two additional years.
BlueSkies_LA
We don’t know yet where the Dodgers prefer to position Betts, but I sure wouldn’t rule out SS. If they want to improve, then replacing Lux with Arenado in the lineup is one way to do it.
Seamaholic
I don’t know how much better a hitter Arenado is than Lux. Very similar last year and Lux is 26 and improving.
Blackpink in the area
I think Lux earned a starting job heading I to 2025. Muncy seems like wouldn’t be missed but they would have to trade him. Perhaps a 3 team deal it worked with the Edman deal.
Blackpink in the area
The Dodgers don’t really have any pressing needs. But they will probably want to get better and they probably have money to spend to do it.
BlueSkies_LA
The biggest ding on Lux is his awful spilts. He’s a black hole in the lineup against LHP and not really getting any better in that department.
El Kabong
The Dodgers don’t have to spend much money to get better. Just make sound decisions. Their long-range payroll is not in bad shape. And they keep drafting and developing good players, even though they’re constantly drafting near the bottom of every round.
El Kabong
Why move Betts to SS for one year with Freeland on the horizon? It’s not a move the Dodgers would typically make. Healthier pitching is the primary way for them to improve. In the meantime, start sprinkling in young players with six years of control.
Cap & Crunch
Hard pass on Nolan
I’m in BIG favor of buying low on a multi year deal with Kim tho.
bighiggy
What about a helsley, arenado and fedde for muncy(to offset salary some and free a roster spot, also cards could then flip him) and one off the young pitchers who got hurt(can’t remember the names, I think there was 3 different ones) and pages?
BlueSkies_LA
I can’t imagine the Dodgers having much interest in Fedde. Arenado’s contract is at least somewhat underwater and Muncy’s is not so the Cardinals have to send more to offset than Helsley. You’re probably thinking of Stone, Ryan and Sheehan. Probably the Dodgers aren’t too motivated to deal any of them off the IL for basically no return.
CommentsSectionCommenter
@blakest
2025 Arenado wouldn’t be an improvement over 2025 Muncy, especially when you consider what each will be paid next season.
The Cards had their chance to move Arenado to LA for what would’ve been a significant prospect haul; they opted against it–as did Arenado, in the end–and that is that.
Trading him will still likely come to pass for STL. But the window to move him to LA is closed..
Blackpink in the area
Muncy missed a lot of games. Arenado didn’t even if i think he was playing at less than 100%.
alwaysatiger38
The Tigers make sense. Desperately need a 3rd baseman and a right handed hitter in their lineup. Take on his salary so return is limited and we can wait for Mcgonigle and Ranier to pair with Sweeney and Keith
El Kabong
The Tigers wanting to limit the return would suggest they don’t desperately want a third baseman like Arenado. Other teams will be interested; the Cardinals would take the offer they like best.
pepenas34
Arenado has a NTC, so it is very limited the market. Remember Stanton trade? Marlins had no leverage at all.
ih8tepaperstraws
Member the Arenado trade? Rockies had no leverage at all.
Seamaholic
I don’t think the Cards get much more than salary relief to be honest. Arenado could be about to fall completely off the cliff. There are signs.
RobblyDobs
That’s about right. If the Cards want anything back from the Yanks they need to add Helsley. Think Arenado + Helsley could tip the Yankees over the edge.
May still not be enough for Dominguez though, and that’s who they ought to be targeting. Maybe add a risky upside pitcher like Roby to balance it?
ih8tepaperstraws
I don’t think the Cardinals have the trade capital for Dominguez at this point. Maybe if they over value Helsley, but they could just go resign Chapman or bring in Columbe. If they got Helsley then because it’s the offseason it would take something like Helsley, Matthews and Weatherholt. Leverage shift to the cardinals at the deadline, but by then Dominguez could be off and running
bighiggy
I know Dominguez is good, but the cards would not trade one of the best closers in baseball, the minor league pitcher of the year(in all of baseball) and weather holt for him. That would be an overpay. Now would the Yankees move Dominguez for helsley, fedde, gorman and one of our young catchers?
CardsFan57
I think Gray moves by the deadline this year. He will move to Atlanta if given the chance. He will also go to the Reds if they find a way to get it together this year.
Armaments216
If Nick Martinez accepts their QO that probably takes the Reds out of the running for spending anything else on starting pitching.
NashvilleJeff
Probably too much salary for the Braves to take Gray off their hands. Braves aren’t likely to be interested in the $65M owed for 2 years of Gray. Cards would have to eat at least 1/3 of the deal and would get little to nothing back. Probably better hope somebody else falls for the Cards salary dump plan.
CardsFan57
Gray has all the leverage in this discussion. He will go somewhere near home or stay where he is.
NashvilleJeff
The Braves have more leverage than Gray “in this discussion.” If they don’t have interest in taking on his salary, there isn’t a deal to be made—-or discussed.
CardsFan57
All the same, Gray can say no to everyone and nothing can happen. That’s leverage.
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
I think that’s true with Contreras as well. He’s saying all the right things and focusing on 1B should help his offense and keep him healthy. But if a contender wants him at the deadline, he will probably go.
CardsFan57
I don’t see Arenado going anywhere but LAD or NYY. Other teams he might approve are set at 3B.
El Kabong
We don’t know who he might approve. The Dodgers don’t have the need.
17dizzy
CardsFan57 —— I agree with you about Arenado being traded to the Dodgers, replacing Muncy.
Plus I see the Dodgers to following up that trade up in a way to Lure Juan Soto to also sign with the Dodgers.
Creating a Batting order of:
Othani
Betts
Freeman
Soto
Aranedo
Edman
Lux
Hendrix
*********
Etc. Etc. Etc.
El Kabong
The Dodgers don’t need a third baseman.
DarrenDreifortsContract
No thanks. Not enough improvement over Teoscar and Muncy to justify the money and prospects.
RobblyDobs
From the Cards point of view, that’s a nice auction
dugmet
I wonder if David Stearn and the Mets would prefer Arenado, 3B, $64m 3/years and Vientos at 1B to Alonso, 1B, $140m/ 5 years and Vientos at 3B.
CardsFan57
I think Arenado would approve the Mets if they shifted Vientos to 1B.
El Kabong
I think it’s $74 for three years.: 32 + 27 + 15.
Alonso could possible be more than five years. Sigfn Soto, trade for Arenado, let Alonso go (Vientos to 1B like you said). That would leave the Mets with plenty of room to huint for pitching.
CardsFan57
Colorado pays $10 million of Arenado’s remaining salary
realist101
Also, while NPV impact isn’t huge, Arenado’s 2025 and 2026 salaries defer $6 million from each year (without interest) payable in 2032-41.
Reduces each year by a couple million or so, both in net present value and for the CBT calculation.
CardsFan57
I didn’t realize that. The contract isn’t all that bad once that is known.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
responding to dugmet
I would.
Baty and Mauricio could play some 3B and 2B also. making the transition from AA to majors.
I think Mauricio could play some OF also.
rct
I don’t think there’s any chance Stearns is interested in Arenado. In addition to throwing Vientos into a position he’s less comfortable in, you’re diminishing his hitting value by moving him to 1B.
But then there’s Arenado. He’s declining offensively in a pretty significant way. The last three seasons:
OPS+ – 151, 108, 101.
EV – 88.7, 88.8, 86.3
K % – 11.6, 16.5, 14.5
BB % – 8.4, 6.7, 6.9
GB % – 30.5, 38.8, 39.4
So, striking out more, walking less, hitting the ball less hard, way more ground balls (extra bad for someone as slow as Arenado). He’ll be 34 with 3/$74 million left on his deal and will cost a prospect or two. Major pass. If the choice is Alonso/Vientos or Vientos/Arenado, and the cost is 5/$130MM-140MM or 3/$74MM plus prospects, respectively, I’d take the former.
outinleftfield
It seems to me that if Vientos value wasn’t being dragged down by his bad defense at 3B, he would be worth more.
That doesn’t mean I think the Mets should trade for Arenado. He is in a pretty steep decline and has been for 2 years and makes a large amount of money. If the Cardinals ate half of the money owed to him that is not paid by the Rockies, to me it would be worth paying him $10 million per year, but not if the cost is really good prospects.
hiflew
Just a quick aside, but shouldn’t every GM gauge trade interest on EVERY single player on their roster every year? They don’t have to actually trade them, but knowing their worth throughout the league is knowledge that every GM should have.
Seamaholic
And they do. This is just the Cards (or possibly Arenado’s agent’s) way to signify to other teams to start bidding.
ih8tepaperstraws
With sarcasm** isn’t that what the trade calculator is for?
slider32
If the Cards decide to move him now is a good time. He still can play and has a good salary moving forward.. Trades usually give you more bang for your buck than free agents.
El Kabong
General Managers probably chat all the time. And front offices (at least the good ones) have a handle on minor leaguers in every organization.
Senioreditor
Muncy, Lux and a good prospect?
Seamaholic
Way too much.
Ma4170
For anyone to take on bis whole salary, they would have to give very little. An upside prospect maybe
bighiggy
What if it was arenado and helsley for Muncy, lux and one of the young pitchers who got hurt last season? Can’t remember the names but there were a couple
CardsFan57
I really don’t think St. Louis would want anything but a prospect in return. It’s salary relief. They neither need nor want Muncy or Lux. LA can trade them elsewhere.
eatonculo
Trading Arenado to Los Angeles makes all the sense in the world until you realize the Dodgers are one of the smartest franchises in the business.
Arenado still has something to give, but he’s not worth the money he’s going to make. I think the Cardinals will have to package him with other players.
Braves Butt-Head
He’ll be Dodger one way or another
Bill Rogers
Walker was no great shakes at third either; where he would play if Arenado leaves is uncertain. Brendan Donovan can play third.
Blackpink in the area
Donovan, Gorman and Saggese is probably ok st third. But losing Goldschmidts defense and Arenado both would really hurt the infield defense.
belkiolle
Donovan and Gorman both have histories as above average defenders at 3B. Saggese could moonlight there but fits better at 2B.
Goldschmidt hasn’t been anything special on defense in 3 years. His loss isn’t the horrible thing that nostalgia influenced Cardinals fans think it would be. Burleson had more DRS (2) in 117 innings than Goldy did in 1300 (0) last season.
Blackpink in the area
If the team goes with Donovan, Gorman or Saggese at 3b and Burleson and Contreras at 1b the defense is going to suffer.
cooperhill
There’s going to be no interest, not with that contract.
swanhenge
He’d look good in Boston as long as the prospect ask isn’t too high.
ATLbravos
they would have to eat half the salary and send him in a package deal…
i got gray and helsely to the braves for a blockbuster
eatonculo
I’d do that deal if the Braves have any more guys like Wainright in the minors.
NashvilleJeff
@ATLbravos: What makes you believe that AA would have any interest in paying $65M for 2 years of Gray? Helsley probably isn’t a fit either. Remember the comments he made about Braves fans doing the chop in the 2019 playoffs? I’m not defending the chop, but Helsley trashed Braves fans over it. Bet they haven’t forgotten it.
ATLbravos
cards are going to have to eat gray and arenados majority of the contracts. unless AA renegotiates like he has done this past week with others but more than likely unless braves salary swap with someone else
GO1962
LOL…..If the Braves acquire Helsley, watch how fast those Braves fans will forget about the 2019 chop comments when Helsley closes out victories for the Braves. Those comments will be forgotten by the second week of April
GO1962
That $65 million dollars that the Cardinals owe Gray for 2025 and 2026 will make it difficult for the Cardinals to trade Gray. In fact, that $65 million that is owed to Gray may benefit the Cardinals because it will motivate the young Cardinals pitchers to learn as much as they can about pitching so that they may aspire to get such a contract some day, and the contract is also beneficial to the DeWitt family and front office because it will motivate them to remain focused and committed on following thru with improving the entire minor league system to develop players from within, instead of the organization having to acquire over the age of 30 players on multi-year contracts.
ih8tepaperstraws
Walker is too tall to play in 3B.
Charlie'sSinging
A lot of 3Bs are really tall. It’s pretty common, actually.
ih8tepaperstraws
In 2003 the average height of a 3rd basemen was 6 feet 0.8 inches. Alec Bohm is currently the tallest 3B at 6’5”. Kris Bryant is also 6’5” and he was rather bad. Walker is 6’6”. It’s too tall to consistently get the screamer on the ground and a whole a lot of body motion to get the ball thrown quickly.
ih8tepaperstraws
* in 2023
Blackpink in the area
I believe there are 2 teams that make sense for Arenado and it’s the 2 teams who were in the World Series. Arenado is a West coast guy but his personality is crazy intense and that’s more of an East coast trait. He has a NTC I don’t think he’s accepting a trade to the Tigers or Mariners or someone like that. Maybe the Mets.
El Kabong
Arenado makes no sense for the Dodgers. They already have a third baseman. Teams don’t make a trade just to make a trade. Especially the Dodgers. They win every year because they are smart and have an outstanding organization, top to bottom.
Blackpink in the area
Muncy missed a large portion of the 2024 season. Most people would take Arenado over Muncy moving forward.
jbigz12
Muncy is much cheaper and has been outplaying Arenado. They aren’t coming to take on age 34-36 of a guy who is showing decline.
Blackpink in the area
When has Muncy outplayed Arenado????
Muncy is old too. And Arenados contract pays him less in 2026 and even less in 2027.
realist101
When Muncy played in 2024, which was admittedly only approximately half the season: 135 wRC+ with average (or maybe a bit above) 3B defense.
Muncy also hit for a 118 wRC+ (better than Arenado) in 2023, though both Statcast and DRS were down on Muncy’s defense for 2023.
Blackpink in the area
Arenado wasn’t 100% last year. I believe some guys would have sat but he played through it. The concern is if he bounces back or if this is just who he is now.
If I am the Dodgers I would rather have Arenado for sure.
realist101
Arenado’s hitting production in 2023 wasn’t meaningfully better than 2024, though: 106 wRC+ in 2023 vs. 102 wRC+ for 2024.
Injury explanation may just get you comfortable that Arenado doesn’t have to rely on wOBA exceeding xwOBA (as it did by 17 points in 2024) to maintain hitting production at similar levels to 2023 and 2024.
Muncy is simply a better hitter than Arenado at this point in their careers, with questions for Muncy being his ability to stay on the field and his age. And age is largely a wash vs. Arenado: Muncy is 8 months older.
Blackpink in the area
I think Muncy is a better hitter now and moving forward. But Arenado is a better defender and has the potential to be a lot better defender. I am taking Arenado.
realist101
Blackpink –
Dodgers are also kind of a sneaky old team across some of their key contributors (Betts 32, Freeman 35) as well as the guys in their IF mix (Muncy 34, Rojas 35, Taylor 34).
Adding Arenado’s age 34 to 36 seasons just doubles down on that issue.
Blackpink in the area
Hey i don’t think the Dodgers are the best fit overall. But he is from the area and he has a NTC. I know he wants to play for a winner and they are the champs. I imagine the Dodgers are his first choice to be traded to even if they aren’t the best fit
BlueSkies_LA
I’m not getting the either/or argument on Arenado and Muncy, when for the Dodgers it could easily be both. In this scenario Lux is the odd man out.
Blackpink in the area
Couldn’t Rojas perhaps be the odd man out?
Charlie'sSinging
“Outplaying” is a bit off. Arenado was a head and shoulders better fielder this year and would generally be considered a better bet to field the position. I would also venture a bet that you put Arenado in that stadium with that lineup, and he would match or better Muncy in terms of hitting. Muncy can’t hit his weight anymore, but did of course show more power and patience in his limited time this year. No telling what Arenado would do if he was in a position like Muncy, with a better stadium and far less pressure with plenty of protection around him, something he certainly didn’t have in St. Louis these last two years.
realist101
BlueSkies – would the Dodgers regularly play Muncy at 2B again? Last time Muncy played any innings at 2B was 2022, even with Lux missing all of 2023.
Don’t know if Dodgers ever outright said it, but think shift ban has meant that Muncy’s time at 2B is over.
BlueSkies_LA
Why not? Muncy only got shifted to 3B after they let Turner walk. Anyhow, all of this is speculation based on a trade that probably isn’t going to happen.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
If I were Arenado I’d approve a trade to DET or HOU also (If they don’t bring back Bregman)
Tom Emansk1
There’s a team just a straight shot up 55 with a Nolan Arenado sized hole in their lineup. Never will happen though. The time for the Cubs to make the move was when the Rox were dumping him at a negative valuation but alas that was too smart for them.
ih8tepaperstraws
The Cubs traded for Isaac Paredes. He very good defensively and offers more upside offensively at this point in their careers.
Blackpink in the area
Contending teams dont want upside they want production. But Arenado wants to play for a winner. And the Cubs are……not that………
ih8tepaperstraws
You are an interesting fellow for sure. When I say more upside, that means I think they are equal players at this point, I don’t think they are. I would much rather have Parades. Parades is still capable of 30+ HRs.
Blackpink in the area
Contract aside i would take Arenado over Paredes 10 times out of 10 for the 2025 season.
ih8tepaperstraws
I’m sure you would. I’m sure your whole team would suck as well. So far you got Arenado and Nootbaar and I got Parades and Dominguez.
Blackpink in the area
Dominguez might be good eventually but I highly doubt he’s better than Nootbaar in 2025. We will see.
realist101
Blackpink – why?
Paredes was a hair more valuable than Arenado in 2024 by both rWAR and fWAR. Fair to call it a toss-up.
Difference is *more* in Paredes favor comparing 2023.
And Paredes is 26 next season, while Arenado is 34
Blackpink in the area
Paredes I think might turn back into a pumpkin. And Arenado i think might bounce back. Of course I like the contract situation better with Paredes but for 2025 salary aside I like Arenado.
realist101
Last time Paredes was a “pumpkin” for a seasonal batting line was the 2021 season. When he was 22 years old and within his first 200 MLB PA’s.
Paredes had a bad August and mediocre September after being traded to the Cubs. 2024 seasonal batting line was still good for 117 wRC+. After 136 wRC+ in 2023 and 115 in 2022.
Most people are only noticing how Paredes’ Aug/Sept split within his 2024 season because it happens that he was traded during the season
ih8tepaperstraws
He’s hit home wins every 13 ABs in his 26 games in the majors. That’s 42 if has 550 at bats. 6/6 in stolen base attempts. That more than 30 over 162. He has already been good. He had an an oblique injury in June otherwise he would have had a lot more games played this year and you’d have a much different opinion of him.
ih8tepaperstraws
Domingues that is.
rct
“Contending teams dont want upside they want production.”
Paredes is more productive *right now*. And he’s far younger, which means he’s a better bet to improve on last year’s numbers.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #BannedForBeingABaseballExpert
My gut feeling is that Arenado will end up as a Dodger. With that being said, I think he’d be a great fit as a Met if the Cardinals would be willing to either absorb some of his contract in exchange for prospect capital, or take on McNeil’s contract. This would allow the Mets to move Vientos to first and they won’t have to pay Alonso 100+ million (which he doesnt deserve in my opinion). Arenado’s defense has gotten worse but hes still above average. With him and Lindor on the left side of the infield, I can confidently say that the Mets would have the best overall left side in all of baseball in terms of defense and offense combined
Blackpink in the area
I was looking at the Mets and I couldn’t figure out what they would give up. I highly doubt the Mets want to trade prospects. I didn’t consider McNeil and thinking about it I think thats fair. 1 for 1 no money changing hands.
BigV
I would be for that 1 for 1. No money involved. I like McNeil
rct
Arenado to the Mets makes zero sense. Please stop suggesting it. And McNeil 1-for-1 is just silly. Arenado’s contract is not good. If you also look at McNeil’s contract as not good, it’s only for 2/$33 (including the buyout).
Also please look at the WAR totals for McNeil and Arenado the last two years. Arenado has not been worth much more, and certainly not enough to justify the extra money. It’s just a bad allocation of resources.
Blackpink in the area
5.8 WAR to 3.7. And that’s using your magic cutoff that ignores Arenados MVP caliber 2022 season. Arenado is better than McNeil.
rct
lmao, of course you used fWAR. bWAR has them much closer at 4.9 to 4.0. Also, please actually read my post. I never said McNeil was better. I said “Arenado has not been worth much more” and even with fWAR, that’s still true.
And why is it a magical cutoff to use the last two years? Arenado’s MVP was *three years ago*. Do you think his 2022 performance is more indicative than the last two years? Arenado is older and declining. He makes literally no sense for the Mets. If the Mets want to move Vientos off of 3B, they’re not going to do it for an aging, declining downgrade on a bad contract like Arenado, especially when they’d have to give up a player like McNeil to do it. Please stop suggesting it. Or if you’re going to keep suggesting Mets moves, please learn about them first.
Blackpink in the area
So 2 years ago matters but not 3 years ago? Glad to know that.
Arenados contracts is underwater but so is McNeils. Not sure why you don’t understand that.
Blackpink in the area
What McNeil does for the Cardinals is he can play 2b and keep the seat warm for Wetherholt. If he bounces back either he helps the Cardinals win games or he can be traded down the road.
belkiolle
The Cardinals have Donovan, Gorman, and Saggese all capable of playing 2B better than McNeil.
Blackpink in the area
Saggese is a complete unknown. Gorman is an ok 2b i highly doubt he’s better than McNeil. And Donovan is an ok 2b who is more of a utility guy. McNeils contract lines up very well with Wetherholt is would be happy with getting McNeil back for Arenado.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
This idea could work but Arenado cost is only 21.33M per year.
COL is paying 10M. I’d keep the whole salary to give up less in value of players.
To me George Springer is kind of a good comparison to Arenado productivity at this point in his career.
Blackpink in the area
Springer is older than Arenado. He’s w rose player and he makes more per year on average in the next 2 years than Arenado makes in the next 3. Jays would need to add to the deal perhaps Orelvis Martinez but I don’t trust him because of the steroids.
Zippy the Pinhead
Mitch Haniger for Nolan Arenado straight up. Other than St Louis fans and management, Mariners management and ownership, and Arenado himself, who says no?
StudWinfield
Arenado for LeMahieu and Messinger. Salary relief and a potential 3-4 SP. Nolan’s no trade forces the issue.
Blackpink in the area
That’s not good at all. The Lemahieu contract is dead weight the Cardinals are getting something good back if they take that on.
StudWinfield
They’ll have to eat nearly half the contract anyways to get any significant prospect value. My proposal has low market value but his NTC, assuming he would want to come to NY, could put the Yanks in an advantageous position. This is how they got Stanton.
desertdawg
Maybe an Arenado to AZ for Montgomery (SP) if the Cardinals would throw in some cash to try and even up the salaries somewhat.
Blackpink in the area
I think thats a fair deal and does make some sense. Cardinals would have to trade a starter but having a lefty and hoping Montgomery bounces back makes a lot of sense.
JoeBrady
AZ has Suarez.
desertdawg
Well, if they don’t resign Walker, they could move Suarez to first.
realist101
Arizona has picked up Suarez’s option for 2025, so I’m struggling to see why they’d want Arenado.
Suarez is good enough defensively at 3B – at least average-ish over past couple years across Statcast/DRS – that his value diminishes moving him off 3B.
TheGr8One
Realist as ever Arizona isn’t interested. Geno covers it for cheaper and had Seattle kept him they’d have made the playoffs. And Geno is just a great teammate. Wish that dude all the best.
Bounty Hunters IA
Trash organization and franchise in decline. Looking forward to years of the east missouri cesspool staying in last place where they belong.
Yanks4life22
1 losing record since 2000, with 16 playoff appearances, 4 World Series appearances and 2 World Series wins while one of the greatest players ever won 3 MVP’s and Goldschmidt threw an MVP in for fun in 2022.
I dunno I think the Cardinals fans are doing fine lol.
TheGr8One
You know in baseball comment sections Bounty your name is spelled T-R-O-L-L right?
realist101
Not sure that the Cardinals would move Walker back to 3B, and my instinctive reaction is that it would be a really bad idea.
Walker hasn’t played 3B in games (majors or minors) since 2022.
While it might be his “natural position”, my understanding is that Walker was moved primarily because he’s a really poor fielder there. However imperfect errors as a stat, 40 errors in ~1,300 innings of 1B at A/AA do not paint a pretty picture of Walker’s skill at 3B.
He has the tools (78th percentile sprint speed, great arm strength) to indicate that he could be at least a decent corner OF with enough reps and instruction.
Team is better off, imho, staying the course and trying to build up his reads and routes for playing RF rather than jerking him around by sending him back to a position that he played poorly before.
realist101
As for a suggested alternative:
Donovan (not mentioned in the article) can also play 3B.
So whatever the best combo is for Donovan and Gorman to cover 3B and 2B between the two of them is an option, if Gorman’s hitting comes around.
Saggese could also be in the mix for 2025 along with that duo. He’s played both 2B and 3B in the minors and is regarded as better defensively at 2B.
padam
Mets have youth to trade and he’d solidify the left side of the infield defensively. His salary is modest compared to what they will spend for Soto, and moving Vientos to 1B and letting Alonso walk is the move I’d make. However, if the Mets want a 3B and improve the defense, they can just sign Bregman and get someone younger and flexible to play other positions. Either way, it helps the left side defense tremendously.
l9ydodger
IF, the Dodgers are interested in Arenado, they should make the deal center around primarily getting Helsley with Arenado added on. The Cardinals get RP’s Brusdar Graterol, & Michael Grove, minor league pitching prospects Maddux Bruns & Patrick Copen. Position player Austin Gauthier could replace one of the above pitchers if the Cardinals desired that. Cardinals also agree to pay down some of Arenado’s contract in 2025.
BlueSkies_LA
They’d have to pay it down to near zero to deserve that haul.
l9ydodger
Blue; Graterol isn’t that impressive to me, hasn’t had an injury free year yet. Grove doesn’t seem to be a starter or dependable reliever. Bruns having control issues in the minors. Copen? Who knows what to expect?
Gauthier? Don’t see him making the Dodgers lineup. So, for 3 or 4 of these players for Helsley and Arenado? I don’t necessarily think it’s a haul for the Cardinals, especially if the Dodgers can get Helsley as their closer. Just a thought.
BlueSkies_LA
I might be undervaluing Helsley but my conclusion is based on Arenado’s contract being significantly underwater — and no matter what you might think of Graterol, with two years of team control he probably has more trade value than Helsley at one year.
jbigz12
You are definitely incorrect about Graterol holding more value than Helsley
BlueSkies_LA
And you know this how, exactly?
DarrenDreifortsContract
The Dodgers could use a veteran bat.
Bobcastelliniscat
Yeah the Dodgers are really struggling offensively.
outinleftfield
Here is the most important news of the evening.
mlb.com/news/roki-sasaki-major-league-posting
BasedBall
He’s a dodger. They have tons of unspent amateur international money
Salzilla
Will MLBTR change their top 50??? He’d be up there if so.
outinleftfield
I think their top 50 list is based on dollar amount, so while he is one of the most impactful free agents, he won’t be paid much even if he waits to be posted until a team can sign him after January 14th. i think the most possible is $7.55 million.
TheGr8One
Depending on the trade price as a Mariner fan I’d take the salary. Dreadful position for us last year and we were close. We don’t need Soto we need singles
GarryHarris
I don’t like to see teams sign players to excessive contracts, especially aging veterans. However, if there’s someone the Tigers could spring a deal for, I’d like it to be for Nolan Aranado. I see the Cards paying down even more of his contract and settling for a lesser return in order to dump his salary. His defense is still outstanding and he’s not an automatic out. It’s just wishful thinking until Javier Baez is off the books.
VonPurpleHayes
A few years too late..
rememberthecoop
I’d rather have Bregman. Arenado’s offense has been mediocre, and while he’s still strong defensively, I love Bregman’s leadership qualities.
paulk-2
Cardinals Nation better realize that the return on Arenado isn’t going to be great. The Cardinals didn’t give up anybody for him and now that he is 3-4 years older and declining, the return won’t be much.
Salzilla
I honestly can see NYY trading for him. As long as the price isn’t insane–his value has gone down a little–I’d do it.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I would consider it for a straight up swap for DJL but the Cards won’t do it.
Salzilla
Why would they? Nolan is way better even in a down season. Maybe with a good prospect they take back DJ, but otherwise would never happen.
realist101
Needs to be more than that.
Arenado has questions but was still 2.5 to 3 WAR player in 2024. He’s due 3/$64 (net of Rockies money), and it’s more like 3/$60 for CBT (and present value) because of some deferrals of 2025 and 2026 salary.
DJL is owed 2/$30 and was below replacement level in 2024. He turns 37 middle of next season, almost 3 years older than Arenado. DJL contract is almost entirely dead money. What would he sign for if FA, 1 yr at <$5 million?
YankeesBleacherCreature
I’m kidding. On the open market, DJL is 1/$2M-$2.5M.
Cody 2
sad to know what could have been with him and goldy
belkiolle
If they’d both performed last year the Cardinals win 90+ games and to to the playoffs.
Wheeler Dealer
Only a sucker trades with St Louis or Tampa
seamaholic 2
Tampa yeah. St Louis has been one of the worst traders in the majors for a decade. The league is sprinkled with stars the Cards traded for nothing.
sjwil1
Cards could probably only eat $10m, along with Rox $10m might get it done with little return
seamaholic 2
Rockies $10 is over two years. He will make $35m next season, so that’s $30m between the Cards and a new team. He isn’t worth more than $20m tops, so if they expect to actually get a real return, they’d have to cover half that $30m, and that’s not even calculating his expected decline beyond 2025. This would be straight salary dump.
dmarcus15
Arenado will bounce back if he is on a team with protection. Yankees, Dodgers, San Diego San Fran, or Boston would be the teams taking a flyer on him.
Captainmike1
Yanks cant afford anyone if they sign soto
dmarcus15
as far as Contreras at 1B why not just move him to DH and use Baker.
belkiolle
Because Baker isn’t that good. The right move is Burleson to 1B against righties with Contreras DHing then Contreras playing 1B against lefties and Baker/another righty DHing.
Bobcastelliniscat
I would think there is a lot of interest in a 34 year old 3B who can’t hit and is owed $74 million dollars.
Captainmike1
He’s over the hill and going down from here
Champs64
Steve Adams, Arenado or Goldy could be good bounce back candidates. Especially if they leave St.Louis. I would love to see a poll to see what everyone thinks in regard to this. Both players will be motivated to improve from their 2024 season.
seamaholic 2
Father Time doesn’t care about motivated.
Champs64
That is true however when I think of Albert Pujols and Lance Berkman as the recent examples and Orlando Cepeda orJoe Torre in the past. It is possible.
Champs64
Steve Adams, how about a Arenado/Goldschmidt poll on comeback player of the year for 2025?
JackStrawb
Weak writeup: ” the Cards will spend the next couple weeks … getting a feel for what might be available in a trade.”
You mean how good a player they’ll have to add to the deal to get another team to take Arenado’s 3/$64m?
Granted he’s a solid HOFer, albeit outer circle (18th best in MLB history by JAWs despite the short career, but with a MOR HOFer’s peak at third), but the chance he’ll put up something like 8 WAR over the next three years given his steep decline, is small.
Arenado’s performance 2025-2027 rates to come up $20m-30m short compared with his salary. No one’s going to take him even as a gift under the tree.
On the other hand, there’s always the Rockies, so who knows…