As the postseason nears its conclusion, we’re rapidly nearing the proper start of the offseason for all thirty clubs. Among the first decisions to be made for any club during the offseason is whether or not they’ll exercise club options for the following season. Those decisions are due five days after the end of the World Series, but clubs generally have an idea of where they stand before then. The Athletic’s Katie Woo discussed the Cardinals’ plans for the three club options they hold for 2025 this morning, and noted that the club is “not expected” to exercise its $12MM option ($1MM buyout) on veteran righty Lance Lynn or its $6MM option ($1MM buyout) on reliever Keynan Middleton.
Neither of those decisions are necessarily a surprise. Previous reporting indicated that Middleton was expected to land elsewhere this winter, and while Lynn’s status was more up in the air it’s long appeared that the club may prefer to retain right-hander Kyle Gibson on his team option, which comes with identical terms to Lynn’s, in 2025. That said, Woo makes clear that even Gibson’s option being picked up isn’t a guarantee. Instead, Woo suggests that the club would be “almost guaranteed” to trade either right-hander Miles Mikolas or southpaw Steven Matz this winter if Gibson’s option does end up getting picked up. Woo notes that the odds of Gibson’s option being picked up will “increase” if the Cardinals feel confident they’ll be able to move one of the two this winter, but that’s far from a guarantee.
Matz is surely the more tradable of the duo, even as he’s coming off a largely lost season on the mound that saw him pitch to a lackluster 5.08 ERA amid injuries that limited him to just 44 1/3 innings of work on the mound. While that production is unlikely to entice much in return on the trade market, the increasing price of starting pitching in recent years makes the remaining one year and $12.5MM on Matz’s contract a bit more palatable than it otherwise would be. Overall, the southpaw has been roughly league average (95 ERA+) while swinging between the bullpen and rotation for the Cardinals and figures to be a generally solid serviceable back-of-the-rotation starter in 2025. It’s also possible a club could look to convert him to full-time relief work after the lefty posted sub-3.00 ERAs out of the bullpen in each of his last three seasons, albeit in small sample sizes that total just 33 1/3 innings of 2.43 ERA ball.
Mikolas, however, figures to be quite difficult for the club to move. Woo notes that the 36-year-old is among the club’s many veterans (including Sonny Gray, Willson Contreras, and Nolan Arenado) who holds a no-trade clause that will restrict their availability to be dealt this winter. The Cardinals will need to have conversations with all of those players about their futures, but even if Mikolas agrees to waive his no-trade rights to play elsewhere its unclear how interested rival clubs would be in his services. Mikolas just endured the worst season of his Cardinals career in 2024 as he pitched to a subpar 5.35 ERA in 171 2/3 innings of work.
A hurler who will turn 37 in August with three below average seasons by ERA+ over the last four years and a $17.67MM salary for 2025 seems unlikely to garner much interest on the trade market unless St. Louis is willing to pay down a significant portion of his salary. That being said, there are some silver linings in Mikolas’s profile. The veteran’s 4.24 FIP and 4.28 SIERA in 2024 were far better than his actual on-field results, and he remains one of the most durable starters in the game today. Over the past three seasons, Mikolas has made 100 appearances (99 starts) and thrown 575 1/3 innings. That’s good for the sixth-most innings in baseball over that time, behind only Logan Webb, Aaron Nola, Corbin Burnes, Logan Gilbert, and Framber Valdez. If the Cardinals were willing to pay down a portion of Mikolas’s salary, it’s at least feasible that a team in need of innings could take a flier on the veteran in hopes of a bounce-back.
Cardinals probably should go circa 2022 Reds but that type of prospect return might have passed them by as guys backslide.
If they eat 1-2 the salary, reds will pay a fortune in prospects for gray. I’m for that move then reds go sign hometown World Series champ buehler to a huge contract he’s unlikely to get due to injury history. Give reds a stout rotation !
Abbott or Lodolo
That pitcher that fell apart last who’s bouncing back in fall league
Williamson
For gray and cads chip in 20-30 mil.
The self proclaimed best fans in baseball are in for a real treat in 2025
Just shut up with that. I have never met anyone who said that about themselves that’s just media nonsense.
If you ask me the Cubs have better fans. Because they put up with losing for decades and still show up year after year.
Cub fans tolerating losing is a myth. In the 1970s, and early 80s, the Cubs averaged between 12,000-20,000 per year. Those were losing teams many years – where were the fans?
Lee Elia (Cubs manager then) has a famous clip in which he rips into the Cubs fan base as a bunch of losers who show up to get drunk and boo their own team (he was immediately fired after that.)
Their fan base only became loyal after they started winning, and they stayed loyal after – good for them.
I was born in 1980 so I can’t speak to those years. Ever since I can remember the Cubs fans supported the team win or lose. What were the attendance needs like from the mid 80s until their championship?
When the Cubs first started competing in 1984, their attendance increased from 18,000 avg per game to 26,000 per game. When your attendance jumps by 1/3 because you win, it sounds like a bandwagon.
From the 1990s on, they’ve hovered around the low 30k per game.
By contrast, the Cardinals averaged around 20-22,000 I. The 1970s when they didn’t make the playoffs. Even winning the 1982 World Series only increased attendance to 26,000. It wasn’t until the 985 NL championship team that they started averaging over 30,000 per game.
I do recommend going to YikuTube and entering “Lee Elia Rant” in the search bar – he just lost it!
One thing I will say is the recent attendance numbers for the Cardinals is not true it’s made up. They sell large blocks of tickets to ticket brokers right before game time and pretend those are actual sold tickets.
America and baseless conspiracy theories: Perfect together.
When will it end?
The Cubs draw well, although not quite as well as the Cardinals. This season, the Cubs outdrew the Cardinals in home attendance for the first time since 2004. But that’s an outlier, as the Cardinals tend to draw more fans. The Cardinals even outdrew the Cubs during and after the Cubs’ World Series year. This is despite Chicago having a significant advantage in tourism and population density.
Both teams have excellent fan support, and the attendance figures are usually close. But to suggest Cubs fans are more supportive than Cardinals fans is flat-out wrong.
Btw, I am not a fan of either team.
2024 per game attendance:
Cubs — 35,923
Cardinals — 35,532
I will say it again those attendance numbers for the Cardinals are false. I dont think the Cubs attendance numbers are inflated like the Cardinals are.
Proof? You can’t say something is true or false if you can’t support it with facts.
Go to YouTube and find a clip of a game. Wait until they show the fans in the stands then look up attendance that day. I guarantee you that you will see what’s going on
If they sell them, its impossible to pretend they sold, because they did.
If they sold them to a ticker broker knowing full well that the tickets they sell to them will mostly go unused is that really a sale?
No it’s not.
They sell large blocks of tickets to ticket brokers right before game time
=========================
The Mets have/had been doing that. But the funny part was that the “sold” tickets were usually the last two sections of the outfield. So you’d have your usual fans behind HP, followed by 4-5 empty sections, followed 2 full sections. It never dawned on them that no one would buy those sections if there were tickets available 2-3 sections closer.
I have a friend that works for a child-care agency. His connection with the NYMs asked if he needed free tickets. for a planned outing. And then offered him 5,000 tickets. Free.
And this was a bit far back, but when my kids went to Met games as part of the Boys & Girls club, the dude running the trip had maybe 500 tickets on a bus with maybe 40 kids on it.
Believe me, they play with the numbers.
Yes it’s some nonsense to try and make baseball look more popular than it is. The reality is there aren’t 40k people lining up to go to a baseball game on a Tuesday unless it’s perfect circumstances.
I’ve worked with the Cardinals on a couple of things. If what you were saying that the tickets sold was inflated through ticket brokers, there would be a significant gap between the tickets sold and attendance (people going through the turnstiles) referred to as the no-show rate
What’s happening is taking two facts and connecting them when they aren’t really connected. Ticket brokers buy up blocks of tickets all the time, then re-sell them above face value. It’s why there are so many Cub fans at Brewer home games – they buy on the secondary market. Brokers buy more tickets from teams that are regularly close to sellouts: Red Sox, Yankees, Giants, Dodgers, Phillies, Cards, Blue Jays, and Cubs.
The empty seats at Busch are the result of brokers buying seats before the season and being unable to sell them at a profit because the team sucks. Combine that with upset season seat holders who are no-shows because of lousy play, and you have nights where the gate attendance is 26,000 but with 34,000 tickets sold.
This is not a conspiracy to make the cardinals look good – no way other teams would tolerate that since it would mess with revenue sharing. And why would a broker buy a bunch of tickets and be unable to sell them? If you try, this can still be a conspiracy guess, but the reality it’s market forces and bad baseball on the field.
There IS a huge gap between tickets sold and actual attendance.
These brokers don’t sell them above face value they sell them below face value. This isn’t a concert. It’s not sales that happen before the season it’s right before the actual game like I said it was.
Do you honestly think people with season tickets simply dont show up? And no it’s not a difference between 26k and 34k it’s a much much larger difference.
You are wrong. You don’t know what you are talking about i do. I have been to over 300 Cardinals games in my lifetime. They have been doing this for years. Do other teams do it? That i don’t know but the Cardinals do so don’t tell me what you don’t know.
I wonder what it’s like to tell other people “you are wrong” without understanding something. I miss the pre-social media days when those who preen or insult others had to do so on a bar stool.
Just so we are clear: I taught sports business at a university for six years. I have 20 years of consulting experience with pro sports teams, including seven years with the Cardinals. I also have a PhD in Marketing. But hey, you’ve been to a lot of Cardinal games… so I guess you know more.
People who buy tickets but don’t attend is always an issue. Have you ever been to a Pirates home game in September? (Probably too busy attending those 300 Cardinal games.) the Pirates will have paid attendance of 25,000 and 12,000 in the stands – that’s 13,000 tickets bought and unused. I helped one team develop a ticket buy-back program so season seat holders who miss a game can get a free ticket in the 400 section. But hey, you’ve been to 300 games.
Ticket brokers routinely buy tickets to re-sell at a profit. I’ve sat in meetings with a different NL central team and listened to a senior director of ticket sales describe brokers as gamblers. They might buy 100 Cardinal season tickets, k owing they will lose money on midweek games against the Marlins, Rockies, and Reds, but they will make it back on games involving the Cubs, Royals, and Yankees. If a broker got lucky and bought 100 Cubs season tickets in 2016, the broker can triple his investment. I don’t remember you in those meetings – you probably attending some of your 300 Cardinal games.
I could look up the difference between tickets sold and actual attendance, but so could you and you chose not to. It’s easier to take what you believe and be confident in that, then tell actual experts how you know more.
But hey, you’ve been to 300 Cardinal games.
Those aren’t season tickets at that Pirates game you are talking about. It’s the same thing the Cardinals do.
Nobody is buying baseball tickets and reselling them at a profit unless it’s unusual circumstances. It’s rare that simply doesn’t happen anymore the team charges so much you can’t do it. Dynamic pricing has eliminated this. The teams got tired of others making money off of their tickets so they stopped it. And now tickets are mostly overpriced as a result.
I know what’s going on in St Louis. Sounds like the same thing goes on in Pittsburgh. Someone was telling me the Mets do this too. Those attendance numbers are false thats the point.
Wow, a man who knows of what he speaks. But no minds will be changed . Conspiracy theories are more fun and self indulgent. Used to be we just waved that off as just full of ****. Well I still do, but others …
I guarantee that the Cardinals are intentionally inflating their attendance numbers to make it seem like their tickets are more in demand than they actually are. I guarantee this is happening.
Baseball is a dying sport. It may not seem like that to you or me because we like baseball but young people don’t care about it the same way as they used to
One of the primary purposes of StubHub is to allow season seat holders to sell some tickets they do not want/need. If you are a Reds fan, you probably sell excess tickets at below face value. If you are a brewers fan who hates home games against the cubs, you can sell those tickets at around 150% of face value and recoup some of your investment. This process is so common with ticket brokers, some teams now limit the quantity of tickets a broker can buy. Why would a team limit the number of tickets a broker can buy? I’ll type this slowly for you – brokers make a profit by reselling tickets.
Here’s a situation where I was in the room with front office people: Around 2018, the Brewers had several thousand tickets bought by brokers, under the belief there would be a competitive pennant race and they would make a profit – they were correct. Ticket demand was so strong that during September, the team only had a couple thousand individual ticket to sell, and those were bought quickly. The result was the only way for a Brewer to get a ticket was through StubHub, with tickets selling for 2X the face value. This pissed off the Brewers people, since ticket brokers were gouging their fans.
Brokers buy seats as early as possible, since the best seats command a price premium.
You mentioned dynamic pricing. I’m dying to hear your explanation of dynamic pricing. I’m sure whatever it is, you’ll be absolutely certain of your ideas.
And if you really want to “guarantee” this, put your money down and I’ll email one of my Cardinals colleagues, then tell you where to donate my winnings.
It’s one thing to debate whether the Cards should tear it down, or what the Rays should do with their stadium problem, or if the White Sox would consider moving. There are two sides on issues. You aren’t arguing a position – you are claiming something to be a fact with zero proof, and your arguments show a lack of understanding of this area. There are lots of things in pro ticket sales I learn on each project, and I sometimes learn I didn’t know all the nuances of a situation. Please, just accept the possibility that you can be wrong and leave yourself open to learning instead of trying to tell people stuff. I’m sure there’s lots things you know that I don’t. This isn’t one of them.
Baseball has serious demographic issues. For too long, it’s been too white, too male, and too old. One of the problems is Gen Z doesn’t consume it by watching a 3 hr. game on cable. They want 10-12 minute highlights and they want them streamed.
The other problem they have is a stubborn belief that the majority of their markets go to the game to sit and watch the game. Gen Z wants a fun and social night out, and a game can be a part of it
This is not my opinion – it’s from a survey covering 250 Gen Z subjects in 2022 that I created and administered for two teams, including the Cardinals.
You are wrong. Take it easy.
Is this how you handle other things in your life? You just tell other people they are wrong – when they aren’t – so you don’t have to have anything challenged. Someone previous observed you wouldn’t change, but there’s a line between being confident to stubborn to whatever this is.
Good luck.
One thing that’s a guarantee on mlbtr is no matter how long I’m away, when I come back you’re always the biggest moron commenting on here.
I told you tickets don’t sell for more than face value unless it’s unusual circumstances. You went and shared a situation in 2018 where both the Cubs and Brewerd were still in it in September and the Brewers home games were selling for more money.
THATS AN UNUSUAL CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!
Teams have put things in place so that doesn’t happen anymore because teams want to be the ones to make that money they don’t want to give that money to scalpers and tickets brokers. That’s how it works nowadays.
Like I said go to YouTube and watch any Cardinals home game this year. Look at the crowd. Then go look at tickets sold for that game. It won’t add up. The ticket sales numbers are fake. That’s a fact and I know it is because I watch the games. Take a look. Stop telling me what you think you know and look it up.
Hey clown, do some research. That moniker isn’t self proclaimed. OTHER PLAYERS, on OTHER TEAMS created that. Not the St Louis fans.
They do have great fans that’ll show up next season for sure regardless of how bad it gets. Ain’t like they’ll loose a 100 games
If DeWitt has an attitude, or is still p!ssed off at the fans for not selling out every home game last season like usual, it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better for his wallet.
Mikolas is just as good as Lynn or Gibson. They are all back end starters who can be replaced internally. The team can decline the options for Gibson and Lynn and then let the Mikolas and Matz contracts run out and problem solved.
I want the team to blow it all up. If they do that they could be better for it in a couple years. But I don’t think they are going to do that.
Arenado, Gray and Contreras are the interesting ones to me. I think Arenado might want out. Contreras could be replaced internally the Cardinals have a LOT of young catchers. And Gray I just don’t see the point of him sticking around if the team gets rid of others.
Again I want them to blow it up but I don’t think that’s going to happen.
I think they will move Matz and decline all the options. I also think Contreras will be moved. I bet they hang on to Gray and Fedde. This would be blowing it up to an extent but more closely resembles a retool.
Rotation:
Gray, Pallante, Fedde, McGreevy, Mikolas
Catchers:
Herrera, Pages, Crooks (by some point in the season)
Contreras’ contract will be difficult to move. Especially if teams no longer view him as a starting catcher. It might make sense to keep him as a DH/LF/third catcher to help compensate for the loss of Goldschmidt’s (declining) bat. If he hits, but the team is not contending, they could move him at the trade deadline. He might be seen as more valuable by then. It would also open a door to bring up Crooks.
I think Contreras can be moved. He’s a good hitter and better defender than people say he is. Herrera has proven he can start and he needs a chance.
Contreras can be moved, but why not wait until some other team becomes anxious about their light-hitting catcher situation? At the very least, he’ll be the best-hitting catcher on the mid-season market. He’s flexible enough to stay in the lineup while Herrara does most of the catching. And if they’re contending for a division title, they can keep him for his bat.
Why wouldn’t teams be anxious this offseason? Catchers are notoriously difficult to move at the deadline. And why keep him around any longer when Herrera is definitely ready to play? Even if you can get both guys in the lineup at the same time I just don’t see the point if the team is taking a step back.
He can play other positions, and the team is in a winnable division. Trading a proven bat in the winter would be poor planning if the Cardinals later need a bat at the deadline. Also, being difficult to move at the deadline doesn’t mean being impossible. Particularly if the catcher in question can fill other roles. And his contract isn’t a bargain, which negates some of the possible winter return. What is the rush to move him now when there is no reason to punt on the season? At this point, then return won’t be much. The Cardinals might have to trade a prospect or two to move the contract.
I would punt on the season. If the team trades Helsley that to me would be the indicator they are doing that if they don’t then they probably won’t.
At least 1 catcher needs to be dealt. That’s for sure.
Reds extend QO to Nik Martinez, which he refuses. Martinez signs a 3-4 year deal worth more than $50MM. Reds get a Compensation A pick in return. Reds also have a Competition A pick in 2025 draft. Reds trade Competition A pick plus a mid level prospect (Balcazar, Jorge, Cabrera) to the Cards for last year of Fedde and Helsley. Works for both teams.
Helsley and Fedde aren’t getting traded for a draft pick in the 30s and a mid level prospect. That doesn’t work for the Cardinals.
They can get something good for Contreras per goold and others in the know. 18 mil for a middle order bat that catches has real value. they arent making the playoffs next year in all likelihood. The question is 1 year or 2 year rebuild?
I don’t see the point in trading Matz before the season starts. Thry can keep him and he can either be dealt at the deadline or released and then the young guys can take his place.
Gotta trade a catcher. Probably need to trade 2.
Gray and Fedde both i could see being dealt but both could bring back more at the deadline.
blackpink, Yep. The deadline is a good point. Be patient, see how the first half plays out, and then use the trade deadline to do what’s best moving forward.
I think Gray stays because of his contract structure (something like $25m and $30m for the next two years). Contreras definitely has value – a middle of the order bat who can catch 2-3 days a week is worth more than the $18m per year he gets. Helsley may stay until the deadline, but he has to be moved. He won’t get a QO (what relievers do?) and w/ only 2025 remaining, you can’t let him walk for nothing.
As for Arenado, my they can deal him to the Rockies for their best players and have the Rockies pay another $50m (like when they traded him to St. Louis).
Big problem for the cardinals is the Diamond bankruptcy and the uncertainty it creates.
Cold-blooded..
I don’t understand how $12mm per year for a 5.00 ERA and hopefully a 5 inning start is considered reasonable for what SP is going for today. Those numbers can be had by a rookie who throws strikes. Doesn’t have to strike out a ton, just have them put the ball in play. If all your expecting is a 5+ ERA, you’ll probably get it.
FIP says both Mikolas and Matz were unlucky in 2024. But Matz has injury issues it’s hard to count on him.
The Cardinals have never blown up the team as a total rebuild. As long as Mo is at the helm I do not trust the decisions to do this. I do see changes are necessary and Bloom should be the one to do this. However,the team can compete in the NL Central without blowing up the team. Keep Arenado,Gray,Hensley,and Contreras. Sign Kittredge if it can be reasonable. Goldschmidt will sign elsewhere and be a good candidate to be comeback player of the year but we need to replace him. Lynn and Gibson pitched as well as could be expected from them but Lynn missed too many games. Gibson is serviceable. Matz out of the pen. Let the contract of Mikolas play out. Give opportunities to the young pitchers.
Contreras, Helsley and Gray all have trade value. You have catcher covered, and how important is a closer and a top of the rotation arm when you’re not trying to compete?
Have the Cardinals said they aren’t trying to compete? It isn’t hard to see them as more competitive next season than they were this year just by playing the young guys who are upgrades over vets who are leaving.
They’ll pawn Arenado off on the Jays and Atkins will get robbed and take on the entire contract.
Don’t pick up the options on Lynn, Gibson, or Middleton. What’s the point in a rebuild year?
Rebuilding seems like a poor idea to me. RE-tool makes more sense. Chase Davis actually looked good this past year and could make an impact soon. Winn is legit. Burleson is legit. Donovan is legit. Gorman and Nootbarr should have reserve roles, so some tweaking is necessary. Walker is still young and Herrera did well.
The rotation remains something of a question mark, but that’s true for most teams. Gray, Fedde, and Gibson is a solid foundation. McGreevy looked excellent, and they still have a number of interesting prospects like Hence.
The division is very wide open as Milwaukee will be losing Adames, and none of the other teams have shown they are definitive/perennial winners in-waiting.
I don’t think this team is a contender until the guys from the minors get here. The team could make a bunch of trades and bring in young talent that fits better with that timeline.
The timeline is now with their young talent.
Wagner>Cobb.
The wide-open division is an advantage for the Cardinals. Instead of making radical changes, they can make sensible ones that add to their mix of steady veterans and talented young players. It’s an opportunity to re-establish a winning culture by allowing the youngsters to “grow up” while playing meaningful late-season games. Along the way, they’ll become the next group of steady, homegrown veterans the Cardinals have always built around.
The team has been doing that unsuccessfully for 10 years now. I want them to stop being just good enough to compete. The new scheduling no longer let’s them hide in a weak division.
Yeah I think the team needs to take a step back in order to take a step forward. Not some giant multi year rebuild but a year or 2 would make sense.
Exactly but everything needs to be focused on 2026 and beyond. They need to sort out player development first.
Yep. I don’t care if the Cardinals lose 100 games in 2025.
My fellow Cardinals fans will lose their damn minds, but I couldn’t care less. I want to see who’s worth keeping!
That’s what I hope they do
@CardsFan57: Rebuilds are no longer (and actually never have been) a sure thing. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re calling for…
I don’t see a full rebuild because they have some good young players. They need to rebuild player development and accept that 2025 isn’t their year. They should offload as many over 30 players as possible. I see this as more of a 3 year project than a 5 year plan.
Wagner>Cobb, agree 100%
People are crazy thinking Contreras contract is bad. Very good hitter. Average catcher with a strong throwing arm. Great clubhouse guy. If it wasn’t for the retool and the wealth of young catchers Cards wouldn’t be thinking of trading him. He’s been nothing but a very good player for Cardinals. Contending teams who need a catcher would be foolish to pass on him
Agreed. So many teams need help at catcher and Contreras is a good player. If it wasn’t for the Cardinals taking a step back in 2025 and their catching depth which is probably deeper than any team in baseball they wouldn’t even consider dealing him.
Crybaby Flaherty when he was with Cardinals had yo blame Contreras for his poor pitching. Wasn’t man enough to admit his struggles do it was Contreras fault. Media ran with it . Of course Oli never backed Contreras so after that he was a bad catcher. He may not win a gold glove back there but he holds his own
They should bring back both Gibson and Lynn. Those salaries sound high, but that’s what an average starter costs now.
If they wind up with too much starting pitching, it’s not like there won’t be teams trading in-season.
They aren’t average they are back end starters who are both at an age where they could completely fall off a cliff. And make no mistake the Cardinals have young pitchers ready to tke their places.
They should be able to develop pitchers as good as Lynn and Gibson who make the major league minimum for three years before arbitration starts.
They should already have that in Graceffo, Robberse, Kloffenstein, Rom, Thompson, and Mathews. It shouldn’t be difficult to find someone equal to Lynn and Gibson.
If nothing else, Mo could shake the tree for low-hanging fruit one last time before he goes. 😀
Lynn and Gibson were both the low hanging fruit last year. Lynn was hanging a little lower. Gibson was ok but it’s time to let the young pitchers have a shot. They really need to move Mikolas and his 5 plus ERA out of the way. His contracts were both Mo disasters. All for only one good season.
Considering the propensity for starters to get hurt… who’s gonna pitch in 2025 if these guys get traded anyway?
Assuming Katie’s scenario is correct (Gray, Lynn, Mikolas or Matz removed) that still leaves Mikolas or Matz, Fedde, Pallante, McGreevy as the incumbent starters.
Not counting who they may get in return from trades, that still leaves Gordon Graceffo, Sem Robberse, Adam Kloffenstein, Drew Rom, and Zack Thompson as the fifth or sixth starter.
Some of those guys may be shifted to full-time relievers in St. Louis or Memphis. It’s pretty much “put up or shut up” for most of those guys.
The entire Peoria (A+) staff have earned promotions. Same with the entire Springfield (AA) staff. There might not be much room for holdover starters in Memphis.
With Helsley and a handful of veterans on the block, they’ll probably be adding a few more high-level pitchers to the mix. Not sure what kind of quality to expect, but they’ll have quantity.
Cards have McGreevy Graceffo Roby Thompson Hence and the young lefty phenom who was best pitcher at Springfield (name escapes me this second). If they’re gonna retool it’s time to let most others go and let’s see what we have. Could always pick up an average innings eater later if needed
Mathews is the one whose name you can’t remember. He’s the best of the group.
Mathews and Hence are the best prospects, but they won’t start the season in St. Louis unless something drastic happens.
Mathews has a good chance to be the first man up, but Hence still has to prove he can pitch an entire season.
Hence will wind up in the bullpen if he can’t start getting some innings under his belt. I’d much rather see him as a starter but he’d make a great closer.
If Mozeliak is going into a dump and rebuild —- I’d say dump all of the pitchers with options. Dump Gray,Arenado, Contrarous, & Goldschmidt!!! Full dumpster mold!!!
After all …… He never built around Goldschmidt & Arenado as he could have if he really wanted the Cardinals to have a possibility to win a World Series!!!
They can’t dump Goldschmidt, he’s going to be a free agent very soon.
The fact that Mikolas is 6th innings pitched over the last 3 years behind 5 very good pitchers says a lot about the Cardinals. It says they overpaid him with the extension they gave him and they didn’t have better options so they sent him out there every 5th game whether he deserved to start or not.
Wonder if Crybaby Flaherty will blame Contreras for getting bombed in World Series tonite. Probably claim he had flashbacks
Some people use any excuse possible to rag on players they don’t like.
Your right. Flaherty is a whiner and a clubhouse cancer. Proved it with Cards. He can stay on west coast where he belongs
Everyone is talking about the pitching, which I understand needs to be addressed, but their bats were just as bad. They don’t have one hitter that scares any opposing pitching staff.
That’s true. The Cardinals have too many “decent” guys around the diamond. No real stars (other than Winn), and no real duds.
Guys like Nootbar, Gorman, and Walker must be given playing time and must produce to stay on the team.
Some of us think worse.
Their pitching staff was 12th best in baseball. Their offense was 23rd or 24th depending on metric. The pitching staff was good. With an average offense they win 93 or 94 games last year.