MLB hit king Pete Rose passed away today at age 83, the Reds confirmed. One of the most accomplished players in MLB history, his decision to gamble on his team as a manager leaves behind a complicated legacy that has ultimately kept him out of the Hall of Fame.
“Our hearts are deeply saddened by the news of Pete’s passing,” Reds owner Bob Castellini said in a press release. “He was one of the fiercest competitors the game has ever seen, and every team he played for was better because of him. Pete was a Red through and through. No one loved the game more than Pete and no one loved Pete more than Reds Country. We must never forget what he accomplished.”
A Cincinnati native, Rose signed with his hometown team out of high school. The Reds called him up in 1963. Rose hit .273 while appearing in 157 games during his debut season. He won the NL Rookie of the Year award while establishing himself as Cincinnati’s everyday second baseman. That kicked off one of the most illustrious playing careers in league history.
Rose suffered through a sophomore slump but rebounded with a strong ’65 season. He led MLB with 209 hits while running a .312/.382/.446 line. He earned his first All-Star selection and a sixth-place finish in MVP balloting. That was the first of six straight seasons in which Rose would appear among the Senior Circuit’s top 10 in MVP voting.
Throughout the rest of the 1960s, Rose never hit below .300 despite the league skewing extremely favorably for pitching. He topped 200 hits in four of the final five years of the decade. Rose won consecutive batting titles in 1968 and ’69, securing his first two top-five MVP finishes in the process. He moved off second base to the corner outfield midway through that run and would secure consecutive Gold Glove nods as an outfielder in 1969-70.
Excellent as those performances were, Rose truly broke out as an all-time great in the following decade. He was an integral part of the budding dynasty in Cincinnati that would dominate the National League during the 1970s. The Big Red Machine won their first pennant in 1970, a season in which Rose hit .316 with an MLB-best 205 hits. The Reds were bounced by the Orioles in the World Series. After missing the playoffs in ’71, they returned to the Fall Classic in 1972 behind Rose and Hall of Famers Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan and Tony Pérez. They dropped a seven-game set to the A’s.
Rose again led the majors in hits in ’72. His 1973 campaign, at age 32, was the best of his career. Rose tallied a personal-high 230 hits while hitting .338/.401/.437 over 752 plate appearances. He won his third and final batting title, secured his seventh All-Star nod and won the MVP. The Reds won another division title but were knocked out by the Mets in a closely fought NL Championship Series.
The switch-hitter’s production tailed off somewhat in ’74, although he led the majors with 45 doubles and earned another All-Star selection. The Reds won 98 games but missed the postseason thanks to a 102-win showing from the division-leading Dodgers before the introduction of the Wild Card. Cincinnati returned to the playoffs with a 108-win season in ’75. They swept the Pirates in the NLCS, setting up a showdown with the Red Sox that’d go down as one of the greatest series in MLB history.
Carlton Fisk’s heroics in Game 6 pushed that Series — which had five one-run contests — to a deserved seventh game. The Reds came back from three runs down in the decider, scoring four times in the final four innings to win 4-3 at Fenway. Rose tied the game with a two-out RBI single in the seventh before Morgan drove home the winner in the ninth. Rose’s .370/.485/.481 slash earned him World Series MVP honors.
The Reds returned to the Fall Classic following a 102-win regular season the next year. This one was a lot less of a nail biter, as Cincinnati swept the Phillies and Yankees en route to a dominant repeat. Rose didn’t hit well in that World Series but had an MLB-best 215 to earn a fourth place MVP finish in the regular season.
Rose remained in Cincinnati through the end of the ’78 season. He combined for 402 hits between 1977-78 while topping .300 in both seasons. Rose left his hometown club to sign a free agent deal with the Phillies going into ’79. That ended a 16-year run in Cincinnati, over which he hit .310 with nearly 3200 hits in more than 2500 games. He continued racking up hits and All-Star appearances over five seasons with Philadelphia, where he hit .291 across over 3200 plate appearances during his age 38-42 seasons. He was part of three playoff teams with the Phils and won his third World Series on the 1980 club.
The Expos signed Rose for the 1984 season. While his stint in Montreal was brief and generally unproductive, he picked up his 4000th career hit that April. Rose joined Ty Cobb as the only players to cross the 4000-hit threshold. A return to Cincinnati set the stage for Rose to pass Cobb’s mark of 4189 career knocks. He did just that late in the ’85 campaign with a single off San Diego’s Eric Show.
Rose finished his playing days in 1986. He retired not only as the all-time leader in hits but also games played (3,562) and plate appearances (15,890). His durability was staggering. Rose led the league in plate appearances seven times. He had 15 seasons in which he came to the plate at least 700 times. Rose almost never missed a game despite the hard-nosed playing style that earned him his “Charlie Hustle” moniker — a reputation that endeared him to plenty of fans while no doubt earning the ire of those of other teams.
At the time of his retirement, Rose was a surefire Hall of Famer. The hits crown alone would have gotten him into Cooperstown with ease. Rose was also a 17-time All-Star, a former Rookie of the Year and MVP, and a three-time champion. He hit .303/.375/.409 with 160 home runs, 2165 runs scored (sixth all time), 746 doubles and 1314 RBI. No player got on base more often than Rose, who reached nearly 6000 times over his 24-year run.
While those records and accolades will never change, Rose’s seemingly inevitable Hall of Fame induction was halted by a bombshell revelation. Rose had acted as a player-manager with the Reds beginning in 1984 and continued to manage after his retirement from playing. Late in the ’89 season, MLB announced that an investigation determined Rose had bet on baseball. That included bets on the teams which he’d been managing. While Rose only bet on Cincinnati to win and there’s no indication he ever tried to fix any games, that’s a violation of MLB’s biggest rule.
A finding that a player or coach had bet on games in which their team was involved — whether to win or lose — warrants a lifetime ban. (That remains the case today and came back into play this past June when MLB banned Padres infielder Tucupita Marcano for life for placing bets on the Pirates while he was a member of the team in 2023.) In 1991, the Hall of Fame announced a policy that any person who had been hit with a lifetime suspension by MLB was ineligible for induction. Rose never got on the ballot.
Getting into the Hall clearly would have meant a lot to Rose, who unsuccessfully pushed for reinstatement in the decades following his suspension. That continued well into Rob Manfred’s tenure as commissioner. Manfred, maintaining that betting on baseball warrants a true lifetime ban, rejected Rose’s appeals. The commissioner did not directly weigh in on the Hall of Fame’s policy against considering induction for those on the ineligible list. With neither the league nor the Hall budging, Rose was and remains ineligible for Hall of Fame consideration.
Rose remained tangentially involved with the game as a media personality. He worked as an analyst for Fox Sports between 2015-17. His tenure with Fox came to an end after a woman alleged in a court filing that Rose had had sexual relations with her while she was a minor in the 1970s. The allegations surfaced well after the statute of limitations for criminal action had passed and Rose was never charged. Rose filed a defamation suit against former MLB investigator John Dowd, who first publicly alleged in 2015 that Rose had relations with underage girls during the 70s. The suit was dropped by mutual agreement in 2017.
Rose’s worthiness for the Hall of Fame has been a divisive topic among fans for decades. What is indisputable is that he was one of the most iconic figures in baseball history. His hit record will probably stand the test of time, as league batting averages have dropped sharply with the proliferation of strikeouts and velocity. Rose was among the best players of the 1960s and 70s and an instrumental figure on a Big Red Machine team stacked with Hall of Fame talent that won multiple championships. MLBTR sends our condolences to his family, loved ones, friends and former teammates.
TMZ Sports was first to report Rose’s death. Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Rest in Paradise Pete Rose and Dikembe Mutombo
And Kris Kristofferson
Holy f*** celebrity deaths always come in 3s.
I’m pretty sure way more than 3 people died recently.
Yes of course. But it seems like celebrity deaths come in 3s though.
I find they always come in tens. And then the next ten begins.
John Ashton makes 5…..
And the guy from Days of our Lives yesterday.
27 years old for rockers.
Maggie Smith passed away as well on Sept 27th.
And John Ashton Beverly Hills Cop
Damn. More sad news after the other. He looked terrible in health wise in Beverly Hills Cop 4.
Wait, there was a 4th?
Yeah. Netflix release. It was decent. Way better than the 3rd one. A lot of cameos. Including Surg.
Straight to Netflix but not bad at all. More in the tone of 1 and 2. 3 sucked.
Maggie Smith was a class act. Pete Rose was not.
Had cancer…..
And Maggie Smith
Lest we forget the passing of Mercury Morris last week at 77
Didn’t know about Dikembe.
Yeah this morning from brain cancer. 🙁
Our 2 former and current presidents brains have also passed away…
I refuse to give Trump that title. Anytime he comes up in whatever kind of way. I’ll just say Head of State. But never the “P” in the title for him.
I always tried to see Pete as 2 different people. Player Pete and Manager Pete. I thought the player should have gotten into the Hall but I guess if you take the whole person together he should be out. He was a POS as a human being but has the most hits in baseball. Well I doubt it matters to him or anybody else anymore.
He bet as a Player/Manager
I mean, he sort of was the President, but you do you.
And the unapologetic gambling addict Pete. I read his autobiography My Prison Without Bars. He’s an arrogant jerk and it’s clear he’s truth-twisting but one can still appreciate the player.
I bet you think that makes you some sort of intellectual huh?
Let us not forget that Pete Rose chose to sport a completely non-ironic Moe Howard hairstyle.
Do we really want to debate whether he made good life choices?
I met Rose at where he signs autographs in Vegas, he was by himself and I said Mr Rose I watched you when I was a kid and you’re awesome. Extended to shake his hand and he said ‘are you gonna buy something’ ah wtf? Nah, I said I was but you’re a jerk and walked away
Yanks- The more and more you listen to people the more stories like that you hear. I knew he was a jerk but didn’t realize the extent. I knew he was a reprehensible human being but when you add up all the good and the bad there’s way more bad. What an a**hole. Like I said he was obviously the only person who wanted him to be in the Hall so now we don’t have to hear about that anymore at least.
Try my reply above. Rose was most obiously not there signing autographs of his own accord. Not making excuses, but who’s in a cheery mood while being humiliated.
one never had a brain to begin with except for the portion that he inherited from his father
Wishing paradise for a rapist sure is a choice
Pete died in Las Vegas, doing what he loved most.
Related (by marriage) to my wife, we saw Pete in Las Vegas on several occasions. We attended the spring Nascar race in Vegasfor and would go to a restaurant in Caesar’s Shoppes that had great crab. Anyway, Pete would be in a sports memeorabilia shop there signing autogrphs on jerseys, hats, etc, . Someone else taking the cash. My wife would go up and make family small talk, but I just stood back. I’d nod if he looked- but he was working and maybe a little humiliated- spending the day paying off some gambling debt, or more likely, satisfying the vig. Probably not loving that.
R.I.P. Pete
It’s a shame he won’t be in the Hall of Fame over gambling, but they’ll turn a blind eye to Ohtani.
With the added hypocrisy of MLB getting into multi-billion dollar deals with several casino and betting apps. I’d like to think they aren’t that naive as to believe that the players aren’t using the apps, even if they are using pseudonyms
Ohtani excuse me no speak English
Ohtani didn’t gamble, as demonstrated by a 37-page report from the Feds.
The feds lol. Don’t be naive dude.
bp, what do the Feds have to gain by lying? Don’t be a conspiracy theorist, dude.
There’s no way he didn’t know where millions of his dollars were going. He is the MLB international golden goose and they can’t afford to lose him. So they simply bought the BS story and moved forward like nothing happened.
And conspiracy theorist is the term naïve people throw around.
No one has produced evidence he did anything wrong, and they’ve explained what happened. If your theory – conspiracy or not – were to have *any* evidentiary support, that would be a reasonable start. As is, there’s nothing but supposition.
RIP Legend. Should be in the Hall.
Saint Nick: He will be now.
But too late for him to enjoy it, sadly.
He’ll enjoy it even more now.
Rose agreed to a permanent ban from MLB and the HOF will not enshrine anyone that is permanently banned by MLB. Case closed.
Pads Fan can’t think independently or constructively. But.. Let’s Go Goose!!! That’s What’s In!!!!
Pretty sure it’s a “lifetime” ban, not “permanent”. Assuming I’m right, he should now be eligible and elected to the HOF. Not a day sooner.
stevenam: If and now vs later don’t matter to him now.
No, it’s a permanent ban. That’s why Shoeless Joe isn’t in there either or anyone else from the Black Sox.
Now that agreement is null and void. The greatest hitter the game has ever seen can now take his rightfully earned placed in the Hof. The haters can bury themselves along with Charlie Hustles agreement. R.I.P. Pete.
Johnny Angel: He was a pedophile and a sleazy character who was, to be polite, ethically challenged.
He will never be enshrined in the HOF, and that’s not worth losing any sleep over.
I bet it’s really dark, smelly, in the orifice where you’ve inserted your head……
Franklin Souze: You know all about such things, huh?
Bonds is the greatest hitter ever.
BB do you go to the hall based on your onfield accomplishments or off field exploits. Your definition of pedophile is a reach and who are you or anyone else to judge someones ethnics.
You loved every minute of it.
No he isn’t & all of his accomplishments are subject to question because of his extensive Steroid use
Not even close to the greatest hitter the game has ever seen.
Johnny Angel…the actual term is ephebophile and he admitted to it. His excuse was…I thought she was 16 (the age of consent in OH at the time). He never took her across state lines as he knew it would be a fed crime.
IT’s a permanent ban
Should not be enshrined at all. He walked by the signs posting the rules against gambling since the day he first set foot in his first pro clubhouse. He knew full well the consequences of gambling and willingly thumbed his nose at the rule then lied about it for years and never had shown remorse. For that he does not belong in the hall.
Johnny Angel: I don’t judge anyone for their ETHNICITY. That would be bigotry.
But ETHICS are an entirely different issue.
Rose was known to be a statutory rapist, a felony that would have landed less famous people in prison.
Sorry not sorry, but I have no compunction about judging anyone for that kind of criminality.
On top of that, he was unethical in his conduct as a manager (and possibly as a player) to the extent that he got banned from MLB for life.
He did that to himself. Nobody made him a victim.
No matter how great a player he was, he was simply not a good person, and he will NEVER be enshrined in the HOF. Personally, I have no problem with that.
But go ahead , cry yourself a river about it.
Johnny Angel
“…you go to the hall based on your onfield (sic) accomplishments…”
Rose’s problem is that he tried to leverage his on-field accomplishments for for questionable off-field endeavors. Had he kept one separated from the other, his chances for induction would be better.
Blue Baron: you must be a brotha’ from another motha’…’ethically challenged’ is one of my favorite sayings. Not one I see bandied about much either.
Can we think of any HOF enshrined player who probably shouldn’t be there based purely on negative character traits or being ethically challenged and/or morally corrupt??
Men lie, women lie, but numbers do not. You have opinions, and you have facts, the facts say you are wrong. 4256 hits. RIP Charlie Hustle, the greatest hitter of all-time.
He can go in the Rapist Wing at the Hall. He had a 14 year old girlfriend when he was 30, and there are credible stories of him screwing 12-13 year old girls at spring training.
The lying cheating rapist can rot.
Permanent means permanent. Pete agreed to a permanent ban from MLB meaning he will never be eligible to be in the HOF and he is not around to appeal that ruling every few years anymore and no one can appeal on his behalf. just like Shoeless Joe, Pete will not be enshrined.
There are many lists of the greatest hitters ever… Rose sometimes cracks the top 15 but rarely the top 10. In 1994, Ted William’s, himself one of the GOAT compiled a list using his own formula (which later basically became SLG% and Rose didn’t crack the top 20.
Most who want to call him the greatest hitter ever base it on total hits. If that is the case than career BA has to be considered. After all…..hits….right? Rose is tied at 178th all time.
But how can that be? He played 24 season just like Ty Cobb and TC has a lifetime BA of .366 (#1 all time). Like you said…have to look at other numbers…..
Games -3562 500+ more than Cobb – PA – 15890 2700+ more than TC – AB-14053 2600+ more than TC
If someone wants more modern stats… career oWAR Rose is tied for 30th.
Yes, despite being a pig and egomaniac he deserves credit for the most hits but he isn’t even close to the GOAT hitter.
As for Bonds….that is where we would disagree.
The facts are that Pete gambled on baseball, he lied about it for years and years, and after he was caught red-handed, he agreed to a permanent ban from MLB.
He was a great singles hitter that played a very long time. He was FAR from the greatest hitter of all time. Great arguments about who is the best hitter of all time. Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Rogers Hornsby, Hank Aaron, Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, Oscar Charleston, even Aaron Judge and Mike Trout are in that conversation. Pete is never mentioned in that conversation. He is down the list along guys like Victor Martinez, Paul Konerko, and HoJo. That is because there is more to being a great hitter than singles. Even when it comes to just getting hits, Pete is not listed in top 30 in hits in a season.
@PadsFan Tony Gwynn has to be on that list, no?
Ty Cobb
From the HOF website regarding election criteria:
General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
OK, Franklin Nitty. Numbers don’t lie, and that’s why he served 5 years in prison for tax evasion.
What does that have to do with Pete Rose?
Permanent bans can be lifted especially after death. Nate Colbert was a great hitter according to Padre fans so considering the source, your opinion of Charlie Hustles place on that list, is unimportant. 4000 plus hits Howard Johnson? Laughing so hard I’m puking. Over 200 hits 10 times Paul konerko ? I’m laughing at you so hard I’m crying.17 time all star, yes you read it right.300 career average Over 3500 games played knucklehead. Over 2000 count them 2000 runs. Victoria Martinez???? Come back when you actually know something about this game and not copy and paste from baseball almanac.
Johnny Angel: Keep puking. But it won’t get Rose’s ban lifted.
I wonder what Ruth could have done with a bit of steroids in his life? I’m a little biased and prefer the purity of the game myself. Bonds was a doubles hitter and then evolved into the best “productive” hitter in the game. He was without question the best, and was a monster but there really is no way of really knowing how much of that was due to steroids and that’s just it…. You can’t always measure the impact of cheating when it comes to the numbers which is why there really isn’t a place for it in baseball. Neither Bonds or Rose have walked a straight line but if I had to compare Rose to Bonds, strictly on field production, I would probably lean towards Rose simply because his numbers were probably real. A true representation of his talent, and not enhanced. Rose was a great on the field athlete without the enhancement of drugs and Bonds was probably good, might have been great? I don’t know because he skewed it with the steroids.
It isn’t and never was a “lifetime” ban.
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
ty Cobb is in the hall of Fame, spare me the he’s not a good dude BS
Ty Cobb was never accused of betting on baseball and banned from MLB.
You’re comparing an apple to an orange.
I thought you were dismissed.
Wrong.
No Johnny Angel, we dismissed you and your ridiculous, misguided defense of a slimeball.
You really should learn that it’s better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression of being an ignorant fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Johnny, Rose is far from “the greatest hitter the game has ever seen.” Most ≠ greatest.
Not as long as the Hall of Fame keeps in place the Ban on Players who have been been banned by MLB & Rose remains on the Banned List
Pete Rose still not going into Hall of Fame. His MLB ban was permanent not ‘lifetime’ apnews.com/article/rose-hall-of-fame-d3da8832097f2…
Pete Rose at age 32 had sexual relations with a 14-year-old
I think keeping him out of the Hall is the correct legal decision, but it diminishes the HOF more than it does Pete Rose.
It was 7 years ago, many teams were cheating, and with the advent pitch com, it’s relevant
astros_fan: No it doesn’t. That’s just being pretentious.
no
Well his lifetime ban just ended so he’s technically eligible for the Hall of Fame now
It’s permanent. Not lifetime. Even when Rose is dead, I don’t think he’ll ever be back.
Semantics. Stop hating. Hof .
Johnny Angel: Slimeball who will never get in.
Says The morality Baton.
Words have meaning. Permanent means… permanent.
Johnny Angel: Says numerous people in, you know, positions of authority.
As I said elsewhere, go cry yourself a river.
Clofreesz: Death is indeed permanent. Nobody comes back from there, Christian Jesus mythology to the contrary notwithstanding.
Joe Jackson is still not in.
Not being in the HOF doesn’t really matter. I’m just glad I had the privilege of watching him play.
You got to watch Shoeless Joe play?
Wow avenger-what’s your secret? A salad and sip of red wine a day?
Shoeless Joe? I thought he hated that nickname.
I concur, however we are not in agreement on his HOF induction.
I have amended my opinion on Petes induction after MLB unconditionally embraced the degenerate gambling & internet gaming industry.
We can agree that Pete Rose was a great baseball pitcher, in addition to being a complete tiece of ship.
*player
Pete disliked “Charlie Hustle”.
@avenger65; I’m not a fan of the HOF.
Who gets in and who doesn’t get in is too often at least partially based on the player’s relationship with the voters (media). A media darling like Gaylord Perry gets in but a guy like Bonds does not. Both cheated (I prefer calling it “gamesmenship”). Hell, Perry even writes a book and in it admits throwing an illegal pitch. What a crock.
CYJ, it’s cheating if it’s against the rules.
CardsFan57: But Joe Jackson was inducted into the Rhythm and Blues Hall of Fame in 2014.
Wanna bet?
Note the last 2 words….it isn’t and never has been “lifetime”
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Rule 21d now sponsored by Bet365
I don’t like MLB being is business with such sites but Rule 21 still stands and is still posted (the only rule that is) in every single club house and any player using such sites is still subject to it.
Those rules were posted in clubhouses when MLB put morals above profit.
They don’t have a leg to stand on now.
@Dustyslambchops23–The rule still stands. You and I are free to bet on Baseball. All pro baseball players and team employees are still banned on betting on the sport. Same with every pro sport. MLB has both legs to stand on still.
You can’t demonize an industry and then open that same industry to unlimited sponsorship and ad space.
especially with kids watching it’s embarrassing baseball allow them in, the power of greed never fails. Kids now will grow up being desensitized to gambling, and some of those kids will be future mlb players.
I dislike the sports betting push myself. Sports talk used to talk about the sports, players, teams etc. Now it is all about fantasy leagues and sports betting in general. It is not just baseball it is every sport and every sport has rules against betting on its games by players and its employees. Just because it is legal for fans to bet does not make it right for participants of the sport to bet on games involving their league. Does not offer a pass to Pete just because we can bet on the games. If he never bet on baseball until after he retired their would not have been an issue. He bet starting when he was a player/manager and continued until he was forced to quit his managing job. He lied for years about his betting and never showed remorse. Never should be allowed to be in the Hall of Fame because of the lying and lack of remorse.
The MLB is actively grooming and encouraging a next wave of gamblers to come through the MLB.
It’s not an excuse for Pete as it was a different time, however he’s done much worse in his life. I’m of the mind that only your baseball activity should be part of a HoF resume, the rest is subjective.
I read somewhere it’s possible to remain a tiece of ship beyond the grave.
ba2929: He doesn’t care now.
They should put his statue ACROSS the street, then people can make BETS on how many people get run over by tour buses…….
RIP, sad he will not be around to collect his HOF plaque!!!
Hard to collect a plaque when you dont ever get in.
When you realize Holier than thou arbitrary bestowments aren’t the be-all end-all.
True that, Papis in, but not A-Rod? Might as well be the Rock and Roll hall.
If Menudo gets in I’m done listening to Top 40.
Dave Matthews
Foo Fighters
Pixies
Now wait a minute son. Are you saying the Pixies are on the same level as Foo Fighters, Dave Mathews Band, and Menudo??? Them’s are fightin’ words!
Well, not Menudo, of course. Apologies!
Foo Fighters are no Menudo. More of a poor man’s Ricky Martin. Dave Matthews are to rock what Blues Traveler are to the blues.
The Pixies were legit though up thru ‘Trompe Le Monde’…
Pixies will always be legendary due to Fight Club. Best ending ever
And my neighbors dog used to howl to Here Comes Your Girl
I think ‘Indie Cindy’ is also a pretty solid album, and they’re still great when performing live.
Frank Black (without the Pixies) is touring his 1994 album ‘Teenager of the Year’ this winter, and that will be a very good show.
Los Angeles
I love his first two solo albums. Saw Frank Black live in a small club here in my hometown about 15 years ago. Smooth.
Great song (and album).
Great thread. I’d much rather talk about Frank Black than Pete Rose.
RIP Charlie Hustle
RIP Hit King….now go kick Giamatti’s ass!
Bart made him break the gambling rules and lie about ? Who knew??
I’m absolutely devastated that he didn’t get to see himself restored to the MLB and enshrined in the Hall before his death. Absolute legend. We hope that you will rightfully get your spot in the Hall soon, Pete.
Yes Yes Yes!! F…. Rob Manford! Ban is A…ss! Hope Bart Geamonti,Fay Vincent burn!!
I hope whomever replaces Manfred’s id10t a** unbans him. It will be bittersweet but he’s finally came clean (not sure when) but I’m glad he came clean before he passed away
Hopeful: It doesn’t matter whether he’s in the hall or not. We all know he’s right up there with Ty Cobb and Joe Jackson. He’ll always be revered even while baseball (and all other sports) promotes gambling.
And shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16.
Cat Mando
I agree with you. The underaged girl is worse than the gambling.
But I think you have issues posting this so many times on the day of his death unless you are related to the underaged girl. You have posted the same thing half a dozen times. Give it a rest for a week.
When so many praise someone who broke the only rule posted in evert single club house since the 1920s. A rule he saw thousands of times and snubbed his nose at and people defend it…No.
When the guy was a married 30-something , doing a 14-15 year old and uses that lame excuse because 16 was the age of consent in OH at the time. When he only saw her in OH because he knew taking her over state lines was a fed offense…. No.
Just because he passed away does not change fact. Would you feel the same if had been your daughter?
Cat Mando
I would wait a couple days following his passing rather than lower myself. These are knowledge readers, they know the story. You are saying this for yourself, not to change minds.
Just make sure you don’t ever forget how much of a hero you truly are.
Knowledge readers all of them? Really? Explain the great number who said….now that he is gone the ban is over?
Explain the number who have posted…I never knew about the ephebophile thing.
You can believe what you like…that I am doing it for myself but it is no different than explaining to someone that the Earth is not flat and covered by a dome.
You also have the choice to skip over what I post and not reply…or are you doing that for yourself.
So….if someone had “r@ped” your daughter and others were praising him you “would wait a couple days following his passing rather than lower myself.”. Sorry, that is lowering the life/love of your daughter.
I have said me piece in the back and forth…won’t be continuing our back and forth on my end. Have a nice day.
You have a lot of faith that his last statement was really truthful.
I never bet on baseball.
I mean, I never bet on MY team.
I mean, I never bet on my team TO LOSE. .
He was a compulsive gambler. He’d have hung his entire bullpen out to dry to win a game if he had enough money riding on it.
He was in so much debt to the Cincy bookies he started dealing with NYC mob bookies. He went heavy into debt with them and they threatened him and his family.
If you guys think what Pete Rose did extra-maritally in the 60’s & 70’s was horrifying , do not do any deep digging into what your favorite star or even bench player or manager got themselves into on road trips away from wifey at the team hotel or hopping nightclub. Sexual Revolution Debauchery Hour for the Rich & Famous
Logjammer D”Baggagecling……..Actually no….he continued to swear that he never bet as a player, “just” as a manager even after confirmed bookie betting slips were discovered in 2015 showing that he did indeed bet on games as a player/manage and games he played in.
His whole life was spent lying….it never changed.
That’s an interesting way to deflect the reality of the situation.
Dice 66: I don’t have the crayons to explain your atrocious spelling of MANFRED and GIAMATTI.
Fay Vincent is still amongst the living, so you’ll need to hold off on the eternal, fiery damnation for the time being.
@Hopeful, I couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s a shame, a damn shame. Period.
He’s a rapist
Eighty Raw
Yeah….. well if we can elect & now run a convicted Rapist, moral coward convicted of 34 felonies Prez then Charlie Hustle certainly deserves his HOF plaque….yes?
@Franklin Souza,
It’s hard to argue with that morally ambiguous logic, but logic, nonetheless.
In what world do two wrongs make a right? The answer is no. Pete is permanently banned from MLB. He cannot ever be enshrined into the HOF as a player.
Franklin Souze you are a clueless tool. Prove any of that with facts.
Hopeful,
“absolutely devastated?”
It’s a game, and he knew he was breaking the rules. I wouldn’t get so down about it.
Okay MLB you got what you wanted now do what’s right and put him in the hall where he belongs! RIP Charlie Hustle
What does MLB have to do with it? The HOF is privately owned and MLB has no say in who gets in and who doesn’t.
Joe – Exactly.
I was really hoping this wouldn’t devolve into a thread about his not being in the HOF.
Let’s take this time to celebrate his accomplishments and the way he played the game, forever Charlie Hustle.
RIP Mr. Rose ….. thoughts and prayers to your loved ones.
The HOF will not enshrine anyone permanently banned from MLB and Rose agreed to his permanent ban.
Gmen777: He doesn’t belong there, but it doesn’t matter now.
Hall of Fame tomorrow!
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16.
Put him in the hall where he rightfully belongs.
Should have done that 10 years ago, MLB blew it.
What happened 10 years ago that it should have been done then?
Was that about the time the news broke about the minor who Rose allegedly (likely) had a sexual relationship with? Quick search has it closer to 2017
Wait who did Pete blow 10 years ago?
They have cheaters in there, but no Pete. I lost faith in the Hall ages ago. It’s a joke now with guys like Harold Baines in there.
If you read the story and details, Rose likely cheated on his wife, one time with a the 14 year old.
Though cheating was the lesser of the alleged misdeeds.
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16.
It’s the hall of fame who’s criteria is what accomplishments did you accumulate as a baseball player
Not the hall of moral values and ethics. There’s definitely a few guys in the hof who opposed Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. Some racists too
That criteria for the HoF applies to every player eligible. Pete Rose, along with Shoeless Joe Jackson, are ineligible.
The issue of ethically challenged players in the HoF is a separate issue.
Yet we allow cheaters like Hornsby admitting to cheating, Perry admitting to greased balls, Whitey Ford admitting to cheating, Hank Greenberg admitting to stealing signs.
Again, the issue of ethically challenged players in the HoF is a separate issue.
If betting was allowed, every result comes into question, There’s a difference between running the risk of suspension by using PEDs to gain a few feet on the FB, versus bringing doubt into every game, pennant race, or WS title.
The HOF criteria for voting are not only about your stats. Best check what the rules are.
I Believe: Maybe he wrongfully belongs, but definitely not rightfully.
Based on his baseball stats he belongs in the hall of fame for baseball as a player.
MLB literally promotes betting sites these days and players can bet on nfl nhl soccer any sport these days.
Ppl acting like him betting on his team to win games like he murdered people is weird.
Nobody is acting like he murdered people. If they were, he would’ve been tried and convicted in court and put behind bars for life.
But he did go to jail for tax evasion and gambled on his team. He earned and agreed to a lifetime ban, so he doesn’t get to be in the HOF, which doesn’t really matter now that he’s dead.
His punishment fits the offense.
I see what your problem is; you can’t see the difference between baseball players betting on the NFL, and them betting on MLB. The opportunity for abuse is immense in the latter. And if you allow baseball players to bet on their teams to win, what’s to prevent them from betting on their teams to lose? And if you know anything about betting, it isn’t simply about winning or losing. MLB banning any player that bet on baseball makes all the sense in the world, and is clearly justified.
It’s a damn shame the man never got his HOF enshrinement while still alive. Lifting his ban and finally allowing him in is the least Manfraud could do now
What is a shame is he was so arrogant that he didn’t think rules applied to him. Spoiler alert: they did.
show me one superstar that isn’t arrogant
Barry Sanders
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16.
Man – Mookie Betts.
Now can we please get back to paying our respects to Mr. Rose
Mike Schmidt.
Different sport, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and the late Dikembe Mutumbo come to mind
Michael Jordan
Kind of like trump huh?
themed: Exactly.
Micky Morandini
Theo: Hardly a superstar.
Of unassisted triple play fame!
Barry Bonds says, “what?”
Lifting the ban would mean re-opening the investigation, which Pete wanted to avoid. There’s a reason he agreed to the ban even after it was discovered he bet on games.
Still, HoF BS aside (which will make up the majority of this post, not the guys actual accomplishments), RIP Pete.
It’s a damn shame he bet on baseball while being an active participant.
Ronk325: Why? It doesn’t matter to him now.
What a rotten dirty shame, they kept him out of the hall. Anyone who watched him play knows the truth of that. Despicable ! .RIP . IT WAS A JOY TO WATCH YOU.,
It’s not a shame; he agreed to the ban.
Agree. Pete broke the rules. He deserved the ban. I hope it is never lifted.
“Deserved the ban”…For me, Pete Rose was baseball for an awfully long time, but his legacy and history has always been complex, intricate, controversial and complicated.
Pete misplayed his hand numerous times when he could’ve had the ban lifted or shortened. He broke some of MLB’s most time honored and cherished rules. But, all of that really doesn’t matter now.
Pete’s now in a better place and he’ll have to now answer to a much higher authority than MLB. Love him or hate him if you like, but I’ll always be a fan of the man known as “Charlie Hustle”. R.I.P Pete Rose.
Ruck Fete Pose.
Jart Barley Harvis?
Sure, why not!
Vogue
He agreed to Bart’s ban on the condition they revisit the terms “soon” as Bart wasn’t in good health at the time. Alas, Bart passed before said meeting could take place. It was speculated that the “permanent” ban would be rescinded, but here we are… so many years later. Regardless, rip.
“rotten dirty shame..they kept him out of the Hall”…There’s this weird thing called “accountability” and as a HUGE fan of “Charlie Hustle”, it must be said that Pete Rose kept himself out of the Hall of Fame.
Without the numerous off field controversies and sideshows, Pete Rose is a first ballot HOF LOCK.
MLB fan, what happened to “Some of us are trying to pay our last respects…”?
Heed thine own advice
@mlb fan—betting on baseball while a player/manager is an on field controversy.
Pete Rose’s pronouns were they/them?
Because Pete Rose kept Pete Rose out of the Hall of Fame.
MPrck: Exactly. The truth is he was a slimeball to such an extent that he will never be enshrined.
He was despicable.
RIP. Glad he passed in Vegas, the place he seemed to love most. Put him in the HOF
RIP Charlie Hustle. Baseball’s most polarized figure and complicated legacies.
He was banned from baseball for life, now his ban is lifted. He should still be elected to the HOF as a player.
It was and is a permanent ban that he agreed to. If he had admitted he bet on baseball, he might have got in after death. Might.
It isn’t and never was a “lifetime” ban, TheStevilEmpire1.
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16.
R*pe of a 14-year-old
RIP Charlie Hustle!
Aloha folks. Wow, Mr Hustle has left us. I sure hope if the mlb can cover/protect a certain former Angel and his gambling situation that the ban on Rose can be lifted. He deserves to be in the HOF. RIP Mr. Hustle Rose. Mahalo
A hui ho! Aloha
And hui ho to you bradduh! BTW I miss Tony G very much! My father was a collegiate coach in the islands, started the program at this college on Oahu. His good friend was the head coach at UH Hilo on the Big Island. Well, he asked my dad if he’d like to come over and see his series versus SD State. You know who the head coach was and because my father was known for his work with pitchers they wanted to introduce him to this guy name Strasburg. My father had a great time meeting the whole team then talking shop with “coach” Gwynn late into the evening. He said such a gracious man, humble and like Rose played hard and left it all on the field. One of my heroes growing up! Mahalo Nui Loa!
Charlie Hustle. Man what a hard nosed ball player. Very intense on the field.
Some loved him and others hated him. There wasn’t much in between.
He wasn’t a great person, but I still think the game is diminished by his absence.
southi: Crap. Every player eventually retires and the game and life go on without them.
If you believe that the game is diminished by his absence, which is debatable, he has only himself to blame. I don’t think the game is diminished. None of his stats have been expunged. The records are there for anyone to see. But the fact that he isn’t in the HoF doesn’t diminish the game IMO, at all.
I agreed with his lifetime ban. I also agree that he should now be enshrined. R.I.P.
Alex Rodriguez gets 1 year + year ban for steroids now mlb on fox thinks he’s a great cue card analyst.
It’s a joke that Rodriguez has a broadcasting career, but it doesn’t change the fact that Rose broke baseball’s cardinal rule
It is a permanent ban, not a lifetime ban.
IHLgulls: What difference would it make now that he’s dead?
R.I.P Pete Rose aka “Charlie Hustle”.
I hope he knew almost all of us knew he was a Hall of Famer. RIP.
warnbeeb: Wouldn’t matter, would it?
To think a pedophile went his entire life without facing any consequences is sad enough. To see people celebrating him is even sadder.
Glad someone else said it.
Well said sir.
I had to look it up, I never heard that before, I guess technicality let him off.
Exactly. And yet we have the idiots on here saying Giamatti & Vincent should burn in hell. Nope. Rose was a POS human being. May “Chuckie Run Fast to First After A Walk” rot in hell.
There are many bad humans in HOF, I think that Pete Rose lifestyle was not of moral character and should never be modeled after.
Keeping within limits of game though he was a legend.
off the field he was a dirty rat but there have been many rats selected to HOF – he may be king of all rats though throwing in the pedo thing.
He admitted to being with someone who was at most 16 while he was in his 30s and the only reason he ‘thought she was 16’ at the time was because of the age of consent in Ohio. Thats not a bad rat. That’s a monster. Can’t think of anyone I know with a daughter who would want them at 16 to date a 30 plus year old….
Datashark: Sorry, betting on his team was not “within limits of game though.”
I was referring to when he was a “player” not a manager.
I get the betting part because he could use certain pitchers/batters when he needed them to win a bet and other games he would let falter because he had no skin in the game.
RIP Pete. My condolences to the Rose family.
Baseball has lost a legend. Played the game hard.
Wow. What a complicated life for this man.
He was one of my favorite players growing up. He gave this game such joy that it made baseball look fun again. I will always remember his runs to first base and his headfirst slides. But he loved the game too much.
Rest easy, Hit King!
He played the game RIGHT.. enough said..
I agree but he should have let up a bit at that all-star game.
Is that you ray fosse?
Even Ray Fosse wouldn’t know, Tiger!
Oh he would know. I remember watching and listening to a’s games in 90’s and early 2000’s. He would take every chance he got to take a shot at Pete
olmtiant: But he disrespected the game WRONG. Enough said.
Sad to hear that Charlie Hustle is gone. Any dude who runs over a catcher in an All-Star game could play for me any day.
I guess the bright light is he’ll likely be elected into the HOF by the Vets committee now. I’m so annoyed that he didn’t get a chance to be elected while he was alive. Last I checked, betting on baseball didn’t get him 4,256 hits, being a great hitter did.
He is ineligible for the Hall of Fame. He is permanently ineligible. The suspension survives his death. He was a miserable human being betting on baseball was the least of his transgressions. I am a life long Red’s fan. I hope he is never inducted into the HoF.
I understand that he may not have been a good human being, but all you need to do is look at the guy who he took the hits record from (Cobb) to see a disgusting human being.
Admitted racist, intentionally ran over a child with his car, admitted to trying to end other guy’s careers. The list goes on, and he was a charter member of the HOF.
To quote Leo Durocher, manager of the Giants and Dodgers, and bulldog player, “I would sign Hitler to play 2nd base for me if it would help us win the pennant”.
It’s not just these two guys either, there are horrible human beings in every major league’s HOF. I don’t care what kind of person they are, all I care about is that they were a good enough player/coach/broadcaster/etc. that they deserve to be enshrined into the their HOF.
@greg He was a pedophile. Justify that
3 of the voting rules for enshrinement in the HOF are about CHARACTER. Not about skills on the field.
Cobb was NOT a racist. That has been proven to be BS. Pretty much EVERYTHING in the book you are trying to quote has been proven to be BS or embellished.
Rose AGREED to a permanent ban from MLB in order for MLB to close the investigation into his gambling on baseball. We KNOW for certain that he broke the only MLB rule that is in every clubhouse. There was certainly more to it or Rose would not have agreed to permanently never be able to be a part of baseball again and never be enshrined in the HOF.
I’m not justifying that, just like I am not justifying Ty Cobb intentionally running over a child, Rogers Hornsby’s admitting his membership in the KKK, Ray Lewis beating the wholly heck out of woman, etc.
Fine if you don’t want Rose in, but be ready to kick out Landis, Hornsby, Cobb, Durocher (womanizer), all the 1970-1980’s coke heads, and more, as they were all terrible human beings as well.
You’re right, everyone has their own moral code and tolerances. Personally, I can separate the player from the Human Being, some people can’t.
Cobb was actually for integration. And was a far superior human to Rose
The HOF can’t. That is why they have 3 voting rules based on the players character and off the field actions.
Ty Cobb didn’t bet on baseball while playing.
Cobb never intentionally ran over a child. That has been totally discredited, There is no evidence that Hornsby was in the KKK, only a rumor that Emil Fuchs reportedly told a Boston city councilor that he was, Hornsby denied it, Stop with the intentionally spreading misinformation.
mlb.com/news/ty-cobb-amazing-facts-and-stats
What is not discredited rumor is that Rose bet on baseball as a player and a manager and that he AGREED to a permanent ban from MLB which makes him ineligible to be enshrined in the HOF.
That you are trying to say that two wrongs make a right just shows your own lack of character,
greg1: What a crock of BS. Nobody’s getting kicked out of the HOF based on hearsay to justify Rose’s exclusion.
I didn’t say people will be kicked out, I said that if character is what holds Rose out of the hall, then there are others guys that never should have been elected either based on their character. Obviously tongue and cheek on actually kicking them out.
As for some of you ripping me for inaccurate info on other players, calling Pete a pedofile also comes with some context. The girl was 15, claimed she was 16, which would have made her legal in the State. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I CONDONE HIS ACTIONS, PERSONALLY, I FIND THEM GROSS. When I hit 21 years of age (I know Pete was older), dating anyone under that age of 20 would have made me uncomfortable.
To summarize though, as Charles Barkley once said, “we are not roll models”. We know kids and adults look at athletes as such though, which is what makes this argument fascinating to me. On Rose’s game alone, he deserves inclusion. If you look at the total Pete Rose “package”, then it’s about whether you can accept the fact that not all of the guys in sports are decent human beings.
greg1: He was a PEDOPHILE in any context.
And true that we are not ROLL models. Nor are we bagel models, muffin models, or ROLE models.
I find Google to be quite helpful with spelling.
greg1
“I said that if character is what holds Rose out of the hall, then there are others guys that never should have been elected either…”
There’s the fallacy in your argument. Rose was not kept out of the HoF because of the character issue. He was kept out because he was/is ineligible. Rose was banned for gambling on baseball. That ban makes him, and guys like Joe Jackson ineligible for the HoF. The fact that Rose was morally corrupt is irrelevant. It’s not the reason he isn’t in.
Are you really bringing up a spelling error?! Hope you have better things to do in your life moving forward.
greg1: Are you really making spelling errors?
Don’t make them and I won’t bring them up. Do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to say ROLL model instead of ROLE model?
It’s not just spelling. The two words have completely different meanings, but you are somehow ignorant of that.
Was English not your first language?
Is English my 1st language? Classy buddy.
I guess if autocorrect makes an error and I don’t bother to read my post over again before hitting the button it makes me unintelligent and unable to effectively use the English language.
I guess I’m ignorant then, especially as I’m sure sure I spelled this word correctly either Arsehole
Not arguing with you at all for why he has not been elected until this point, you’re 100% correct. Now that he has passed away, I suggest that he should now be considered for election. Some of the responses I received suggested that his character should not make him eligible permanently. That is when I argued back that if you believe he should continue to held out of the HOF, then I said character issues would eliminate others that are already in the hall.
Let me clarify one more time for those who have responded to my posts.
1) While gambling on baseball doesn’t get a player 4,256 hits, he gambled, and was dealt with in a similar manner than anyone else would be if they bet on Baseball, a lifetime ban.
2) Knowing that this was Baseball’s policy, and the players/coaches, etc. were aware of the policy, I agree that his lifetime suspension was justified.
3) AFTER his death I asked the question as to whether he could/should be elected to the HOF now, and giving my opinion that I believe he should be.
4) Most responses said no and referred to his character as to why not now that he has passed.
5) I made my comments that I can separate the athlete from the human, and made reference of other players who have had questionable characters that could be a reason for putting Pete’s character aside.
Cross out that sure sure, and make that not sure.
Reasonable points, except that, as others have pointed out, it’s not a lifetime ban. Rule 21 states that gambling, as was employed by Rose, results in permanent ineligibility.
Making it permanent, not lifetime, is for deterrence. If Rose were to be inducted now, someone qualified to be inducted, but also ineligible, could reasonably assume he’d eventually go in as well. Knowing that Rose will never get in might be the deterrence needed to cause others to weigh flaunting the rules and, the impact gambling will have on any HoF aspirations.
Well said Jean, it’s fair that with it being a permanent ban,that carries on after death.
greg1: There’s no way pedophile autocorrects to pedofile.
Your carelessness is a sign of a lazy intellect. Fortunately for me, that’s your problem to live with, not mine.
Wow, you seem to like to talk a lot! Are you any action, or just a mouthy troll who hides behind a computer.
You can comment on my intellect all you like, obviously you seem to feel like you’re of Superior Intelligence.
Little background on me, in order of importance:
30 year relationship/marriage to a fantastic woman
Great 18 year old son who is about to be playing baseball either in university or professionally
I own my own successful small business
I enjoy a glass of wine, a bowl of pasta and sitting on my deck with my wife listening to music
So, I have plenty of money, have a great family life and have not stressed about anything in my life for a decade or more. You my friend might have a higher IQ, but that doesn’t mean that you’re not a miserable little shrew who likes to play tough guy behind a computer. Congrats on peaking in life as an online troll.
You should ask my wife, family, 300+ clients, and private banker about my life and investments, especially about the property I just sold for $7.9 million.
But if it makes you feel better about yourself and your lazy mind, go ahead and call me a troll.
I’ve been called worse by far better people than you.
You know how I know you’re a loser, you spent much of your post above talking about your 300+ clients, private banker, and your $8M property you just sold.
You know who brags about items such as that? Sad little people who believe the amount of possessions/money they have proves their intelligence. I would suggest that you were an insecure, unpopular kid who now flaunts his wealth as a way to “show it to everyone that I’m not the loser I was in High School . Congrats buddy, you have a lot of money. So do I, but the difference between you and I is that I don’t talk about it or try to use it to impress others. No one’s impressed my friend, trust me.
Now, if you would like to continue running your mouth at me, let me know and I will gladly give you my phone number so see can discuss. Of course you will say no, using the excuse of you’re too good to waste your time talking to me. The truth is though, that doesn’t allow you to hide behind your keyboard.
I don’t need to prove or explain anything to you.
Keep trying.
Hadn’t planned on going on with you this long to be honest.
To put this whole thing to bed, why don’t you and I just not bother responding to each other’s posts. I have much more to enjoy in life than spending time arguing with you, and I’m sure you feel you do as well.
Says the guy who posted in excess of 2000 words on this thread.
Because he went to Philly.
Johnny Angel: How is his going to Philly relevant?
I am saddened by this..As person….he was troubled but still….100%….he should be in the Hall of Fame..!!!!!
For what? Dying?
RIP Petey
HOF, Like one of many got to see him in Las Vegas when he resided just outside of Luxor – I actually got to spend 20m talking sports with him.. He was not all that nice to my kid, but he played the game hard and I got a photo with him and my family + signature
Datashark: And?
I lived near Dayton when Pete came back to Cincinnati to manage and play for the Reds. His return galvanized the fan base and the team. I was fortunate to attend Opening Day 1985. Pete hit second and did his patented head first slide on a double in the first inning. His energy was off the charts. Anybody who evaluates Pete Rose, the baseball player, solely on his stats (which are pretty ridiculous, even as a compiler), then you never saw the man play. Pete Rose was a field general throughout his career. A difference maker. A winner.
Pete Rose, the man, was truly flawed. I went from loving him to despising him once I saw him hawking his autograph on a sidewalk in Cooperstown on induction day in 2000, mere minutes after his fellow Reds Tony Perez, Sparky Anderson, and Marty Brenneman were inducted. That’s when I knew that he was lying about his baseball gambling, knew that he was self-centered and greedy; knew that he only cared about himself. Pete just couldn’t let them have their day. He wanted some more spotlight and money.
I’m on the fence about whether the player should get into the HOF, but I’ll never think well of the person. That being said, I hope he’s at peace.
R.I.P. Hit King, aka Charlie Hustle…
Rest In Power, Hit King. Sad day for baseball.
From Wikipedia: “Rest in power (a variation on rest in peace) is an expression used to mourn, remember or celebrate a deceased person, especially someone who is thought to have struggled against systemic prejudice such as homophobia, transphobia, racism or suffered because of it, particularly in black and LGBTQ communities in the United States. It has been used to eulogize victims of hate crimes while protesting the social inequality and institutionalized discrimination that may have led to their deaths.”
This absolutely does not apply to Pete Rose.
Rest In peace? Sure. I don’t begrudge Pete Rose his rest.
But he was absolutely not a victim; if anything, he was a predator.
MWeller77: What are the dead resting for? They’re not going to wake up.
Guy played the game with more passion than all the players in the league currently. Too bad we treat players like pampered babies nowadays.
Call him by his full name, Statutory Rapist Pete Rose.
Inner-circle Hall of Infamy.
You’re aptly named as well!
Guess you’re ok with pedophilia. Good to know.
I’m not, Mungo… just don’t see the sense in kicking a dead man when he’s down. Do you feel better for this? Then I’m ok with it, just feels weird bro.
Yes, by all means, let’s have a moment of silence for the dead pedophile.
Well, *my* full name is Primitive Screwhead Who At Least Has A Moral Compass Unlike Pete Rose Defenders, but it’s a mouthful.
Such a shame should have got in the Hall
People who bet on baseball while playing or managing (or both in Pete’s case) do not belong in the Hall of Fame. Ever. He was a great player but he crossed the line that calls for the baseball version of the death penalty.
Let us also not forget his “underage” relationship….
Yikes!
@Mustard Tiger
But as long as one testifies in court that one accepted a bribe to throw the World Series, they can be admitted to the Hall of Fame.
Nice deflection
Old York, How do you figure that? Shoeless Joe, along with 7 of his teammates, have a permanent ban, and will never be inducted. Jackson’s crime was not betting on baseball, but taking a bribe from gamblers to throw the WS. He testified that he took the money but did not do anything with the intent to lose. His stats back that up. But he, along with the other 7, is still banned. Not sure where you get the idea that a player can accept a bribe and be inducted, when there’s an example of 8 guys who can’t.
Now will Rose get into the hall of Fame? Charlie hustle.
Foreget all this .242 is a great batting average these days but player had great exit velocity.
He won 3 World Series. probably threw a few games. Dead people can’t gamble. Something to bet on?
Not a lifetime ban, a *permanent* ban. He doesn’t ever get in, as things stand now.
.242?! who are you talking about Rose has a lifetime .303 average – if he didnt hang on the last two years it would be even higher. I never saw him walk to firstbase on a walk
I meant the standards are low these days, not in roses era.
Pete did have one of the best baseball jokes : as Pete rose attended an all star game one year, some media announcers asked how well Ty Cobb would play in todays game. Pete responded “”Well Ty Cobb would hit .274, steal 20 bases and have 70 rbis.” .274?!? Questioned the the sports announcer.
Rose responded, “Well , Ty Cobb would be 80 years old.”
Citizen1, If that’s true, then Rose is guilty of plagiarism as well. It was documented in the book “Cobb”, by Al Stump, that firstly, it wasn’t a joke, and it was Cobb himself who said it.
When Cobb was asked how he might have done against some of the contemporary pitchers, like Warren Spahn, Don Drysdale, Sandy Koufax, Whitey Ford, etc, Cobb said probably .290. When the interviewer said something like, wow, you hit over .400 several times, and hit .366 for your career. You really think the pitchers today are that good? To which Cobb replied, “Well, I’m 72 f—–g years old you ignorant son of a b—h”.
RIP Charlie Hustle
Now back to the postseason sponsored by Bet365, DraftKings, and FanDuel.
While he should be, he won’t be inducted into the HOF. He will forever be this era’s Shoeless Joe.
Great player but he will NEVER get into the HOF but if he does then so should Shoeless Joe Jackson.
Shoeless should be in regardless its a travesty about him.
Giants fire Farhan Zaidi but Reds don’t fire Krall!? Unserious org. R.I.P Hit King
Pete played the game the right way and if he was half as good at wagering he would have been in the hall when he retired
Put him in the HOF this year and be done with it. He had the stats long before the gambling allegations.
He also screwed little kids.
He wasn’t screwing “little kids” It was supposedly a 16 year old girl In 1973, that kind of thing was thought of differently than in 2024. It’s not a great thing to have done, but not even illegal in most places at the time. Don’t make it sound like he was prowling the playgrounds or something.
Wander Franco, is that you?
You missed the stories about him having 12-13 year old girls delivered to him at spring training.
And when he was screwing a 15-year-old, he was 30. Don’t defend this guy.
The man is dead and this happened 50 years ago. Maybe you should let it go.
So if some married 30-something was doing your 14-15 year old daughter (his excuse was he thought she was 16) what would be the time frame for you letting it go, hiflew? Just wondering.
1) i don’t have a 14-15 year old daughter, so the question is moot. 2) This supposedly happened over 50 years ago, so no one really knows what happened if anything. You cannot condemn a man without proof and there is no proof of something that happened that long ago. 3) If I did have a 14-15 year old daughter and it did happen, It damn sure wouldn’t be 50 years pass before anyone found out about it happening because they would have been fishing his body out of the nearest body of water in 1973.
So the woman’s father has a perfect right to condemn Rose, but that is not you. It’s not your daughter, so once again why won’t YOU let it go? The only people that know what happened in 1973 are either dead or a 65 year old woman. Are you either of those? If not, then you don’t know what happened and maybe you should live you own life instead of project into something that may or may not have happened.
Tell that to Felipe Vasquez. The Pirate pitcher was convicted in 2021 of having sex with a 13 year old, served a sentence and was deported last December. Granted, Rose was accused of having sex with an “older” girl, who was 14. Sad, how people are willing to check their ethics at the door. And people wonder why the US has so much crime.
“You cannot condemn a man without proof and there is no proof”….Ummmmmm……Rose admitted to the “affair” but only after the woman went semi-public. Dowd knew of it but could not prove it just like he knew Rose, despite his denial, bet while a player….then years later the betting slips were uncovered.
“but that is not you. It’s not your daughter” well there is an interesting hill do die on. By your logic (or lack thereof) no one has the ” right to condemn” unless it’s their relative (and it seems to be even more so if it is someone hiflew idolizes). Says a lot about your “values (or lack thereof).
By your statement I can only guess that if a 30-something was doing a 14 year old in your presence, that was not your kid, you would just turn away as it would not be your “right to condemn”
Have a nice day, I can’t stomach anymore of an interaction with someone who gives a pass to another because the idolize them. Someday you should read the Dowd report and get a glimpse of what Rose was like as well as subsequent statements from Dowd. You may just open your eyes
I was asked about what I would do if it was MY daughter and I explained that it was my daughter I would be understandably upset. But since it is not my daughter, I am not all that worried about it. If you want spend your life getting upset about people you don’t even know, then good luck to you. That’s not my job.
“I can’t stomach anymore of an interaction with someone who gives a pass to another because the idolize them.”
Aw damn, and I was just going to ask if you wanted to exchange Christmas cards this year too. BTW, I don’t idolize the man. I don’t idolize ANY man. I was never even that much of a fan of his. But I don’t judge people based on things that happened before I was born.
I said I would murder someone that did it to MY daughter. I didn’t say it was OK or reasonable. Nor did I say it was OK to just generally do this to anyone that commits that offense to anyone, They have police to arrest people and have judges to judge people. I am neither, so if the victim is not someone I am related to, then I just don’t care, Sorry if that bothers you, but I guess you will have to learn to live with that disappointment in me. I have, so it’s possible you can live a normal life with that knowledge..
hiflew, you are morally deficient.
accused is not the same as convicted
Hiflew Y I K E S BRO
I bet the girls and their families have a hard time “letting it go.”
TheMan3 you: “I see a lot of smoke coming from my house, but it’s probably fine. Smoke is not the same as fire”
Except for the small wrinkle of breaking the cardinal rule of gambling while playing.
RIP
Well, you know what they say: “Fail to follow the rules every step of the way in life, or suffer permanent consequences that follow you until your death, even if you die in a year where MLB made hundreds of millions of dollars from the revenues of online sportsbooks.” Words, I think, we can all live by.
All time great player. Among the all time worst persons in MLB. Not just the gambling on baseball games and the lying about it for decades. His pedophilia is even worse.
Maybe if you had come clean and repented even a little you would be enshrined in the HOF. Now it will never happen.
Hope you get what you have coming in the hereafter Pete. You certainly earned whatever stripes you have to bear.
RIP Pete A definite Hall of Famer regardless that baseball hasn’t put him in
RIP Pete. You played the game between the lines the way it was supposed to be played. As for the HoF, this changes nothing. Put him in the day AFTER Shoeless Joe.
Didn’t really care for him as a person, but as an all-time great MLB player, I believe he absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame
Should have been in the Hall of Fame Years ago
RIP to the greatest hitter of all time. It’s a tragedy that he’s still not in the hall of fame.
Hardly, MLB was correct in keeping him out
There are very few rankings that even put him in the top 15 let alone the greatest and that is not even considering the gambling and being an ephebophile
I just learned a new word unfortunately
Mickey Tettleton has a higher career wRC+; that scumbag was overrated and now he is dead
Looks like that lifetime ban is finally over.
It isn’t and never was a “lifetime” ban.
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16.
“it was 50 years ago babe” -Pete Rose 2022
Buddy Harrelson is waiting for you, Pete.
Or Woody
Pete played the game the way it was meant to be played and gave the fans their money’s worth. RIP, Pete.
“The game the way it was meant”..Pete Rose only had one speed and that was 110%+, often even running full speed on the way to 1st base after a routine walk. In person(or on tv) fans always got their money’s worth watching Pete Rose.
RIP Charlie Hustle
Reinstate him now that he’s passed away so he can take his rightful place in the HOF please. Manfred do the right thing!!
What other pedophiles do you want to enshrine in the hall?
I take it you don’t believe rules serve a purpose.
RIP, Pete!
I mean he wasn’t out all night drinking and beating his wife. Give the dude some credit
He wasn’t home with his wife because he was having an affair with a 14-15 year old while the wife was home with the kids….His excuse…I thought she was 16. Straight up ephebophile.
Kinda like trump
This is an incredibly low bar, Pickle
Can’t limbo under that sucker.
Find a copy of “Bunts” by George W[ll. One of his stories is of how Rose brings his girlfriend on a trip to a card show where he’s selling autographs. His friend, who is driving, knows nothing about her accompanying him until the last minute. Rose’s wife shows up up at motel mad as hell suspecting what’s going on. Pete and his friend spend hours trying to convince her that the other woman is with Rose’s friend, not Rose. They finally convince her, whereupon Rose goes off to sleep with his girlfriend. His friend says something like, what are you doing, we spent all that time convincing her, and now you’re going to do this? Rose’s response was, I didn’t drive 200 miles to sleep with my wife. Besides being morally corrupt, he doesn’t sound very smart either. Then there’s the story of his wife, a different one, punching one of Rose’s girlfriends in the face, when she saw her driving Rose’s Porsche.
And That means Bonds will always be the HR king.
Will MLB celebrate him during the playoffs?
No.
R.I.P Pete. Your play on the held will never be matched. Loved watching you play.
A lot of people sure love criminals these days.
Well said
RIP Pete. Welcome to the HOF.
Why?
I began sharing these All Star rookie teams to draw attention to some lesser known players. However, after Babe Ruth, Pete Rose is the most well known player in MLB.
1963 Rookie All Stars (Mine)
C HOU John Bateman
C DET Bill Freehan
1N CHW Pete Ward
2B CIN Pete Rose
3B CLE Max Alvis
SS MLN Denis Menke
LF MIN Jimmie Hall
CF CLE Vic Davalillo
RF CIN Tommy Harper
UT PIT Bob Bailey
UT NYM Ron Hunt
SP CHW Gary Peters*
SP NYY Al Downing*
SP PHI Ray Culp
SP DET Mickey Lolich*
SP BAL Dave McNally*
RP MIN Garry Roggenburk*
RP STL Ron Taylor
RP PIT Tommie Sisk
RP LAA Julio Navarro
RP PHI John Boozer
If he accepted a lifetime ban obviously he didn’t want them to investigate into further years and potentially expose more corruption.. betting against your own team is equivalent to being a snitch lol.
Put him in the Hall of Fame… the lifetime ban has ended.
Agree! RIP Charlie Hustle.
Melche…
It isn’t and never was a “lifetime” ban.
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16. Straight up ephebophile
Incredibly sad to see this much support for a sexual predator.
You would think the pop up ads i am seeing would be for sports betting.
What a complicated legacy. Once of the greatest ever broke the golden rule. Integrity matters. He belongs on baseball’s Mount Rushmore, but definitely not in the Hall of Fame.
Not complicated at all. He’s a Hall of Fame player. Period.
Except he isn’t. Period.
I’ve always said he belongs in the hall as a player. However also did not belong in baseball after his gambling became known.
Sad news, I still had hopes that in some way they’d leave the ban on him before passing away. RIP Pete, you’ll always be the greatest.
Pete Rose is on the permanently ineligible list. That doesn’t end with his death, and Manfred did address that when Rose last applied for reinstatement in 2022. HOF changed the rules after Rose accepted his ban that anyone on that list remains ineligible for the HOF. So Rose remains ineligible for the HOF even in death. The only way he would become eligible for the HOF is for MLB to remove him from the permanently ineligible list or the HOF to change its rules again. Neither is likely to happen anytime soon.
His playing career is certainly worthy of the HOF. But he bet on baseball as a manager and that is clearly against the rules. Even now with MLB more in bed with gambling than ever players are not able to bet on the game. Rose violated the trust of the game and all of its players, coaches etc. And it wasn’t just a one time thing. He did it over and over and over again. The Dowd report was pretty damning, which is why he accepted his ban, they had him dead to rights. He mistakenly thought that if he didn’t fight it and accepted his punishment, that MLB would eventually reinstate him.
People will compare what Rose did to the steroid issue, but they are not the same thing. Apples to oranges so to speak. This is not to say steroids are not bad, they are. But steroid users still have to go out and perform. Betting on baseball also comes with the specter of fixing a game which damages the integrity of the game in ways that steroid use cannot. So stop it with the steroid comparisons. NOTHING excuses what Rose did. He did so knowing it was against the rules. He accepted the punishment.
We all know he’s a Hall of Famer. Let the politicians politic.
When the Hall of Fame became and if/then induction process, it lost its luster with me. You may think differently, but I think either you’re a first ballot Hall of Famer or you’re not. Always have felt this way. When you’re comparing stats to “prove” you belong based on other people already being in there, it gets watered down and meaningless.
Meh. Rose definitely a Hall of Famer. Everyone knows that.
Opinions are one thing, facts are another.
Here’s an example of a fact: Pete Rose is not and never has been a Hall of Famer
Here’s an example of an opinion: your 2 cents is worth every penny
1980 with the phillies was imho his finest hour. his at-bat against ryan in game 5 of the nlcs is legendary, as well as his catch in WS game 6. mike schmidt said rose was the greatest teammate he ever had
RIP Pete Rose. Your accomplishments on the field are well documented and worthy of recognition. IMHO the HOF is for a deserving few, and character counts. He was certainly a character, but not one that belongs in the HOF. I recognize that there are others enshrined in the Hall who were not good men, but that does not excuse Pete’s actions. He knew the rules, he broke the most serious one, and he voluntarily agreed to the permanent ban. He deserves to be a pariah, and should never be admitted. His records will still stand in spite of that.
He’ll get in next summer now, right?
Nope….It isn’t and never was a “lifetime” ban.
Rule 21d
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon
any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform, shall be declared
permanently ineligible.
Shall we overlook his affair with a 14 year old girl too?
His excuse…I thought she was 16. Straight up ephebophile
A terrible human being.
One of the greats. Though I think his gambling issues should forever keep him out of the MLB Hall of Fame brought to you by DraftKings because by putting him in the MLB Hall of Fame brought to you by DraftKings we will forever condone and even encourage gambling in our fair sport.
RIP Pete condolences to his family.
Maybe the baseball gods will put the man in the HOF where he belongs
Now talk about the underage girls that he molested during his 30s and older. The man was a trash human being.
currently there’s a trash human being running for president who has been convicted of 34 felonies
I’m not sure what that has to do with baseball. Nice deflection though. 9/10.
It’s a sad day when anyone dies that the trolls slither out of the woods. Then say the most ignorant things about Pete Rose.
Beware of karma
Yeah like saying “RIP” about a trash human
Oh, and BTW, Buddy Harrelson has been waiting for this day since 1973 to finish things…hope you’re ready for him, because he sure got the better of you that day!
Pete Rose is one of the greatest baseball players and his record of 4256 hits would require a player to play more than 21 years of 200 hits seasons in order to catch him which I don’t believe will ever happened rest in peace Pete rose it was fun watching you play
Read the Dowd report
I could write a book about my memories of the Reds in the 70s.
It really hit me hard when I heard Pete died and was only 83. Another player from my youth gone.
But more than that, I remembered him as a great ballplayer before the rest came down. Whatever you may think of the man himself, and he was admittedly his own worst enemy at times, he was a hell of a ballplayer, on pure grit, because the talent was achieved through hard work.
A great example of what someone with not all the natural talent in the world can achieve, if you work hard at it.
Rest in peace, Pete. Maybe you’ll finally find some peace now.
Even if he was betting on his own team to win, it effects how he managed. Soto starting on mound gave em best odds of winning, he started Soto 18 times on short rest that season, year before he only pitched on less than 4 days rest 7 times. Ruined soto. Pete was out for Pete. RIP
Pete was out not just for Pete, but underage girls
Maybe know that Pete is deceased he will be put where he belongs (HOF).
Should be for the “lifetime” of the hall of fame, not his lifetime.
Pete agreed to a permanent ban. He is not eligible for enshrinement in the HOF. It doesn’t matter that he is dead anymore than it matters that Joe Jackson and the rest of the Black Sox are dead.
Character? Kenasaw Mountain Landis is in.
Gambling? I think I see a gambling ad every commercial break on the Network. Plus, the “Unicorn’s” interpreter bet millions, but the Unicorn didn’t know???
Keep Rose out, okay. But can we honestly argue character and gambling?
He was a pedo.
Not real sad to see a kiddie diddler dead. I did like sliding head first on my HS team, though my coach wasn’t a fan.
It’s funny everyone ignores that to only focus on the gambling. Very telling of people that defend him.
He wasnt even that good! Best ever season: 154 wRC+. That was his ONLY season with a wRC+ above 150!
Exactly. Ted Williams averaged 187 wRC+ for his career.
Not only did Williams average that, but he lost 3 years of his prime, ages 24 – 26, as a naval aviator in WW2, and played only 6 games in 1952, and 37 games in 1953, when he got recalled to the service, and sent to Korea. His military career caused him to miss 727 games. Imagine what his numbers could have been without the interruption of those wars.
Thanks for teaching Michael Jack Schmidt how to win. You were the greatest hitter I ever saw. No doubt Hof. Banned for being Pete rose. Outrageous.Rest in Peace.
Now let’s rename the Buster Posey rule to the Ray Fosse rule. For anyone who saw that All Star game and collision between Pete Rose and Ray Fosse will understand.
MLB UNFORGIVING HYPOCRITES
Rest in peace Charlie Hustle. May you join Joe Morgan in the field of dreams.
Pretty sure “comments blocked” is incoming.
Happy for him. Pedos deserve to rot
I realize character isn’t an issue for Hall of Fame voting, a lot of jerks are in the Hall… but come on people, Pete gambled and agreed to his Lifetime Ban… and there is also the lil thing that kept the Phillies from honoring him… enough said
Lifetime is not his lifetime. It’s the lifetime of Major League Baseball. Meaning permanent lack of eligibility. Plus he was also a pedo, like wander and Felipe Vasquez
News: Pete Rose has died at 83, brought to you by Bet MGM and DraftKings.
RIP Charlie Hustle…
No great loss. A real sad human being who cared only about himself.
Yeah, he was a real diarrhea person. Same level as Dykstra
The abject hypocrisy of the continued ban of Pete ” Charlie Hustle” Rose from the Baseball HOF is is mind numbing.
Considering the shameful unconditional embrace of degenerate & influential organized gambling & gaming…… the overt hypocrisy & morally corrupt motivations are reprehensible.
That’s neat how you used fancy words when you could have simply said, “I’m deflecting!”
Franklin Souze, You’re conflating two different things. Whether MLB has embraced gambling is debatable. It’s more likely that they have reluctantly accepted the inevitable. MLB doesn’t control the legality of private citizens betting on baseball. As long as laws allow it, there is nothing MLB can do about it.
But MLB’s stance in regard to players betting is a different issue that goes to the very integrity of the game. Should MLB allow players to gamble, or just look the other way when they did, then it would bring into question the legitimacy of games, titles, and championships.
I used to be hard-nosed about Pete and supported MLB banning him from baseball and HOF. My stance on that has softened after 30 years or so. He is a HOFer and should be recognized as such.
It’s a shame that after they decide to allow a team to negotiate with moving to Vegas and how MLB quickly buried the Ohtani incident and they couldn’t forgive Peter this many years later.
I lost my best customer
He was married to Kiana from Kianas Flex Appeal on ESPN 2 back in the day…they didnt call him Charlie Hustle for nothing.
They should put his statue across the street. We can make wagers on how many people get run over by tour buses each day/year/month…..hour and day pools…….day of the week picks…..
Hypocrisy is the ultimate homage which vice pays to virtue. – Le Rochefoucauld
Pete was a cocky overachiever and a degenerate gambler. As for MLB???
Trivia:
Pete Rose hit his 4000th hit with what team?
Don’t cheat for the suckers.
I’m sorry he died. He was a great player. Now let’s be real. He violated the number one rule of baseball knowing the consequences. He lied and he lied then lied some more about it until overwhelming evidence forced him to admit some of his lies. Do we know the extent of his lies? No we don’t because he only admitted his lies when faced with overwhelming evidence of those lies. The ban was permanent. I’m thinking it will remain permanent.
It’s been mentioned in several posts that Rose agreed to a lifetime ban. That’s true, but what isn’t being said is why he agreed to such a ban. He initially denied the charges, but when threatened with release of the findings of the investigation, he chose to accept the ban in exchange for the findings not being released. That speaks volumes. Of, course as soon as Bart Giamatti died, he applied for reinstatement. Maybe he erroneously interpreted ‘lifetime ban’ as referring to Giamatti’s lifetime.
No he didn’t misunderstand the terms of his agreement. He tried to break the rules that he previously agreed to, again.
I never said he misunderstood anything. When I wrote that maybe he thought lifetime ban referred to Giamatti’s lifetime, I was being satirical. It’s unfortunate to have to explain satire.
Their is documentary about great great Pete rose. If he just admit years ago . he bet it may have been different. joe Morgan did everything he could to get rose chances. Every time Rose blew it.. Till he had a book to sell. . Rose shows because you are talented at something does not mean you are a good human being. Cheating baseball is joke . some good some bad.
Mutombo the world is a better place because he was on this planet.
I think Pete Rose, the all time hits leader, deserves to be in the Hall. It should of occurred before today. It is despicable that he never was honored. Rest in peace Pete. I loved to watch you play and hear your stories.
No.
What’s despicable is Rose himself. Abiding by the rules isn’t. Betting on baseball, by it’s players and managers, would open up every result to question. Why blame MLB for trying to maintain the integrity of the game?
cause they aren’t consistent in who they punish
Yes they are. Betting on baseball means a permanent ban. That’s totally consistent. Bringing up other transgressions, in a false equivalency, isn’t relevant. Cheating for an advantage is not the same as players and managers performing in a way that might benefit them financially.
Betting on games could mean players throwing games, losing on purpose. That’s different from guys cheating to try and win.
Trying to say there should be one blanket approach doesn’t work. What if MLB said okay. we’ll be consistent, apply a blanket approach, and slap permanent bans on anyone and everyone caught cheating? Cheaters should be punished, but not like guys that bet on baseball while playing.
Cheating to win doesn’t bring into question every result of every game played, the way players betting on baseball would.
I got to see Pete play in person when I was young . You will never see a player anymore give 100% for 100% of his time played . Never took a play off. He is the absolute symbol of a baseball player. I’m a Cards fan but loved yo watch him play. You will not ever see another player with his desire and determination . This is sad. I know he gambled and he was punished. He was over punished . Never bet against his team. It’s wrong I know but overly punished. Now Manfred you can let him in Hall of Fame because he’s dead. What a shame
He was never punished for rape. Let’s say that the insufficient punishment for that is not being enshrined in a hall that has, among its qualifications, a standard for excellence of character. How about that being the tiniest little itty-bitty punishment for something he should have gone to jail for 50 years ago?
What a shame is, is people calling for Rose to be put in the HOF just because he is dead. Pete agreed to a permanent ban. Just like Shoeless Joe Jackson, permanent doesn’t end when you die,
Mike56, When I lived in Boston, a friend and I drove up to Montreal to see Rose in his final season. We each had a list of the HoF players that we’d seen play in person, and, on assumption that he was going in, wanted to add him to our lists.
After reading everything I did, about his gambling, lying about it, and then when he finally apologized, it was for the lying, not the gambling. I had to agree with the decision to ban him permanently. He’s one less name on my HoF list, but right is right, and he deserves what he got.
It’s debatable whether he never bet against his team or not. He was addicted to gambling the way a junkie is addicted to heroin. He says he never did, but he doesn’t have the greatest record of telling the truth.
One of the true legends of the game.
Can we split the difference? Give him half of a hall of fame plaque and just mention while he was a great player he was a lousy person. Seriously, either make a plaque for him, cut it in half and hang that or instead of his face on the plaque have his name with a big middle finger.
That should make everyone upset, perfect compromise.
Pete Rose’s take on Ohtani was hilarious.
“Well, back in the ’70s and ’80s, I wish I’d had an interpreter. I’d be scot-free.”
He played his ass off and was down to earth. A rare combo among today’s stars. The Hall is too pretentious anwyay for a real one like Pete. RIP man.
I don’t know if anyone in recent times played harder than he did.
It seemed like max effort every time with an at bat or running the bases.
I always make this joke to myself that A’s Cast Live’s announcers Chris Townsend’s dad is really Pete Rose . He’s taller but he really looks like Pete Rose more than his real son. , and he’s always talking about betting lol . I said you’re going to get into trouble . I found out his real parents have past so I never told him about my joke that Pete Rose is his real dad
Huh, Mr. Baseball died on last day of season …
He broke the #1 rule for being mlb player/mngr when he gambled on mlb games. It’s bout the very core of the game n it’s integrity.
Let’s not forget that MLB was facing a major issue with all this. There was no guarantee at the time that the popularity of the game would return after this guy dropped his pants and crapped on decades of tradition
(I read the article on mlb.com)
Another messed up thing about him. He served 5 months prison for tax evasion, for not declaring income from memorabilia and such, and gambling WINNINGS. You have to pay tax on WINNINGS? What? Land of the free, lol.
But you also are supposed to keep track of losings so that you’re paying taxes on how much you came out ahead, not just the winnings.
Free doesn’t mean do whatever you want whenever. I can’t believe some moron gave me an opening to say:”….. we’re living in a society!”
Any player on Baseball’s ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.
No automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted.
The idea that some players of lesser moral character being in the Hall of Fame leaves the door open for other players of lesser moral character is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Heck, find the guy with the lowest OPS or highest ERA or least home runs or least wins and set that as the bottom threshold? Anybody above those “standards” can get in? Yes, they still have to be voted in, but how low do you want to go? Come on.
I was going to say “nothing at all” here…until I saw this…
“The haters can bury themselves along with…”
Evidently, if a guy is a POS and people notice this and refuse to lie about it just because he was good at baseball, that makes them a “hater.”
It’s not that the people who ignore all of that are amoral fangirls willing to shred any pretense of ethics to grovel before some fame, nope.
“Haters”.
For those that smoked weed in the 70s, 80’s, 90’s 00’s, 10’s. It was illegal then. Would you take as much offense about those transgressions then as what was legal then and not legal now?
Not clearing the man for what he may have done then, but times have changed. Morals have changed.
The man was clearly one of the best the game has seen despite his morals. And that should be respected. The Pro baseball hall of fame in Camden is not set up to show the most respectful of human beings to play the sport. Eventually over 10000 years there are going to be more than a couple people that were deplorable people, but great at their sports, that should be honored for the time and effort they did to make the sport better. Many Baseball players played the game like Pete did, because of him. Didn’t know or care about his off field antics. He didn’t cheated himself by the off field stuff. His on field alone says he should be a 1st ballot HOF, The PRO BASEBALL HOF, not the I’m a great person like Abraham Lincoln hall of fame. He was one of the best at what he was known for. Playing baseball. Not as a humanitarian, not a politician, nothing but the sport he played in. He deserves to be in that sports Hall of Fame. May have been a horrible person in life, I don’t know for sure, but he was definately one of the best baseball players of all time, and for that, he deserves to be in the Baseball HOF. It’s not like the Baseball HOF dictates who is and or was a great person.
Coopersfield.. not Camden sorry
Where’s Coopersfield? Do they grow it there?
That’s a facile analogy.
Smoking a joint doesn’t hurt anybody.
@Don’tBeDumb
That is a factually incorrect statement.
@FredMcGriffHR don’t be pedantic, pot doesn’t hurt anyone
@Don’tbedumb
It isn’t pedantry at all. There are numerous statistics and studies on the damage that ‘pot’ does to a whole range of people, including children and passive inhalation of marijuana smoke.
Again, your statement is factually incorrect.
Have a nice day.
@Fred
The point of the comment thread was that pot (you don’t have to put it in quotes because we already know you’re smug) was criminal then but isn’t now.
Sexually abusing underage girls was illegal then. It’s illegal now. It’s a facile analogy.
You’re comment was superfluous but I’m glad all those studies you read weren’t a total waste of your time and you got to act holier than thou in a comment section of a baseball transactions message board. What an accomplishment.
Again, your self-satisfaction is insufferable.
Have a nice day.
By name @Don’tBeDumb
Your words-“smoking a joint doesn’t hurt anyone”.
A factually incorrect statement.
Nothing about legality or illegality of the substance.
No smugness involved, just facts.
Have a nice day, and keep your marijuana smoke away from children.
bro u suck
Your post has some validity, but like every player since Commissioner Landis dropped the hammer on the Black Sox, Rose knew the cardinal rule and the consequences of breaking it. Pete considered himself above that rule and faced the repercussions until his death. Faced with a choice between certain Hall of Fame glory or an envelope from his bookie, he chose the latter, and that’s where it ends.
Agreed that his career should be judged by his on field actions. He may have made a bet or 200 on his team to win once he was a manager, we will likely never know for sure.
But based off his on field production as a player alone, he should have a bust in Cooperstown (sorry for the tired, misplaced HOF towns named instead, no disrespect intended to those enshrined). Maybe he doesn’t get the bust or plaque with his face and cap put in place, but at least has a spot with his name on it to honor what he did. It’s not like the game didn’t change simply because of him. He deserves a little honor. Anyone over the age of 46 likely saw at least 1 or 2 games he played in if true fans of the sport and not just their team. The man was a unique entity back then. Anyone who smashes the hit record deserves a spot in my opinion. Give it an asterisks or whatever. But made more a permanent affect on thr game than Sosa, Bonds, McGuire, or A-rod in game. Did some questionable/stupid stuff off the field. The Baseball HOF is to judge the best baseball players, not the best human beings. Pete was one of the best baseball players in history. Probably not a great human being. He deserves in the Baseball HOF for what he did on the field. What he did off of it shouldn’t exclude him from it. Those looking for the Hall of great People/persons won’t have to see him there. Those that respect the best ball players can chose to respect him in that hall.
I am not against Rose being in the HOF, just stating why he isn’t for the same reason Joe Jackson isn’t.
It was a hundred+ years ago but Landis edict is something every commissioner since has passed down and every player has understood the ramifications to their place in the game for breaking it. Shoeless Joe being the poster boy for it.
Rose has no excuse, he knew before he ever placed that first bet that if it ever was discovered he would lose his place in the HOF and still he went through with it.
Perhaps had he come clean and addressed his gambling problem, MLB may have taken a different route, but Pete is Pete and just like he plowed into Ray Fosse, he did likewise with this situation and here we are.
Honestly I dont think it matters anymore. For Pete it was always about standing up on that podium so he could vindicate himself and now that is never going to happen.
I was at a game at Shea when they put up on the big video screen Pete breaking Cobb’s record and he got a standing ovation. Pete living at his highest moment, Shame he died suffering his lowest moment.
Seems coincidental -but, somehow, appropriate- that he passes in the same year the team that created the situation that caused him so much trouble sets a modern record for futility.
And now EVERY commercial watching a game is betting…………sad
Ok fine but Ichiro is my Hit Daddy
RIP Charlie Hustle.
Say it ain’t cheat, Pete
Joe Castiglione only got a single paragraph buried at the end of a multi-topic column. “Permanently ineligible” Rose gets this hagiography. Just sayin’.
***
Rose deserves the coverage for both his tremendous career and his personal flaws. I’m of two minds as to whether he should be inducted into the HoF. I’m unpersuaded that the (credible) allegations of statutory rape really ought to be given much weight. The hall is a baseball museum, his private conduct unrelated to baseball isn’t material.
I’m sympathetic to Rose’s struggle with gambling addiction. That he “never bet against the Reds” or “never bet as a player” mitigates but doesn’t erase his culpability. It was entirely correct to ban him from MLB for life, as his persistent problems indicated he couldn’t be trusted to protect the integrity of the game. (Sure, the game’s integrity is in tatters, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care).
MLB and the HoF are separate entities, and as such his ineligibility to work in baseball doesn’t necessarily have to mean he’s ineligible for the hall. I’m not sure the punishment fits the crime. Banning him from baseball made sense; banning him from the hall seems like overkill.
But his failure to make amends is a problem for me. Allowing his induction sends the message to other players that if you’re talented enough, stubborn refusal to own up to mistakes can be overlooked, even if the mistakes are among the most severe attacks on the integrity of the sport. I don’t think his excellence as a player should give him a bye on anti-corruption rules.
Lastly, waiting until after he died to allow his induction seems cruel and gauche. It sends the message that he was being excluded out of spite, rather than principle or for the protection of the institution. In my mind, he should probably never have been excluded, but now it’s too late to correct course.
Rest in peace to the greasy hitter in my generation and perhaps of all time. What a pleasure it was to watch you play. There will never be another!
Greatest not greasy sheesh
You got it right the first time.
Freudian slip?
Greasy generation and their ambassador to the athletes, none other than the great Peter Edward Rose.
I met Pete Rose in Vegas at a sports book. I was betting on some football games when the clerk said to look behind you slowly and you can see see Pete in the front row. I said who is that beautiful Asian woman he was with and the guy said that women would hang out with him if he bought them a boob job!
I asked if I could go over and shake his hand and he said sure.
I walked over and said “Charlie Hustle!, your rookie card is the toughest card to get in the ’63 Topps set!” He just grumbled.
I shook his hand and left.
That woman he was with had huge new tracts of land!
The irony that Pete Rose passed away during season MLB and writers embrace a player who clearly bet on the game in Shohei Ohtani.. a joke of investigation was done in quick order to shut it down. Writers will hand him the MVP award with no thought that he dishonored the game… Still can’t believe Ohtani has been allowed to play…
You are 100% Correct, iimd-2. There is ZERO doubt, imo, that Ohtani Illegally Bet on Baseball Games through his friend & interpreter. the evidence & Common Sense shows that he did.
As someone who had a Best Friend who was a Compulsive Gambler (he’s deceased), I know one thing that Everyone who’s known a Compulsive Gambler knows, and that is:
ONLY A MORON WOULD ALLOW A COMPULSIVE GAMBLER UNFETTERED ACCESS TO HIS BANK ACCOUNT, which is what Ohtani did for his buddy. What a Blatant BS LIE!
Defenders of Ohtani pointed out that, although Ohtani gave his buddy complete access to his MillionS, all of his buddy’s winnings were put in a separate account, which Actually PROVES that Ohtani knew & was likely involved in the betting scandal. Here’s why:
1) His buddy withdrew a small fortune from Ohtani’s account to wagger on games.
But we’re supposed to believe that Ohtani never said to his buddy, “Hey, where’d MY Money Go?” You have to be Unbelievably Stupid to believe that Ohtani didn’t know what was going on.
2) Any Winnings were put into a Separate Account for a Good Reason. If the Winnings were put back into Ohtani’s Account, Ohtani would NOT be able to claim he knew nothing about the Gambling. Imagine this scenario: “Hey, buddy, how’d I make $250,000 interest in one day?” See the problem?
The Owners & Rob Manfred, the MLB Commission, are HUGE HYPOCRITES for NOT Suspending Ohtani from MLB for Life!
What makes their hypocrisy worse is that at least 3 minor leaguers (that I know of) were suspended This Year for betting as little as a total of $20 on a baseball game. And one minor leaguer, who apparently wagered a couple of thousand on games, was Suspended for Life!
But Lying Ohtani gets to continue playing & continues making Mega Million$ because he’s 1) Popular and 2) a Foreign-born Player.
So that Hypocrite Manfred, with the Complicity of All the Owners, allowed a player who Obviously Illegal Bet of Baseball Games to continue playing.
I sincerely hope this comes out one day & Manfred & the Owners are left Stuttering & Stammering over why Ohtani wasn’t Banned from Baseball for Life, in the first place.
Apparently, Manfred & the Owners forgot an Important Lesson from the 1919 Black Sox betting scandal:
If you don’t address a Betting Scandal Harshly, it could Destroy Fans’ Faith in the Integrity of the Game, which will result in HUGE Drops in Attendance, TV Contracts Dollars, and Advertising Dollars.
So, you did a Brilliant, Job Rob Manfred, of Endangering the Future of MLB for one popular, foreign-born star. I hope that becomes your legacy as a commissioner.
You’re a MORON Manfred & the Owners are just as Dumb for letting you sweep this under Home Plate.
Incidentally, None of this serves as an Excuse for putting Pete Rose in the HOF. Saying, well, Ohtani got away with it, so let’s let Rose in the HOF, is the equivalent of saying this:
Since OJ got away with Murdering his wife, every man should be able to get away with murdering his wife.
That’s how Dumb that argument is.
Stop watching MLB…
I heard Shoeless Joe Jackson could have been voted into the HOF any until 1991 (or any of the Black Sox for that matter).
I can’t say for sure, but I think that’s incorrect. He was acquitted in court, as were the other 7 players, but Landis wanted to send a message about protecting the sport from the influence of gamblers. So he banned Jackson and the others in 1920.
The language in the rule says permanent ban, but maybe it was originally written as lifetime ban. If the language was changed to permanent ban in 1991, I suppose he could have gotten in on a technicality, since he’d passed away by then, but there was no real possibility of that happening.
Pete Rose still not going into Hall of Fame. His MLB ban was permanent not ‘lifetime’ apnews.com/article/rose-hall-of-fame-d3da8832097f2…
Rest well Pete. First ballot HoF shot in the foot. Betting on a team that you are on the roster or staff yeah.
Out side of that, one of the best careers in all of sports. I hope someday he does make it in the hall but understand he ban
Hey Pete Rose, way to go with all that baseball! You showed em’!
GOOD ARTICLE
thank you!
Can’t you write with correct grammar when eulogizing someone? Is it too much to ask to show that respect, MLBTR? “Excellent as those performances were” is NOT proper English. You can’t just leave out “as” at the beginning of the sentence. It’s not optional, and neither is being grammatically correct when you’re being paid to write.