September 25: Pittsburgh released Taylor and Tellez, according to the MLB.com transaction log. That’s a formality with both players headed to free agency at season’s end regardless.
September 24: The Pirates announced that they have designated first baseman Rowdy Tellez and outfielder Michael A. Taylor for assignment. Those two active roster spots will go to infielder Liover Peguero and outfielder Joshua Palacios, who have both been recalled from Triple-A Indianapoli. Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported about Tellez on X shortly before the official announcement. The club’s 40-man roster count drops to 38.
Both Tellez and Taylor were signed to modest one-year deals in the winter as the Bucs tried to supplement their roster. Tellez got a $3.2MM guarantee while Taylor got $4MM. Unfortunately, neither signing worked out well for the Bucs, as both players have struggled this year. With just a handful of games left in the season and the club well out of contention, the Pirates have bumped them off and will presumably give more playing time to younger guys who could perhaps factor into next year’s club.
Tellez, 29, was non-tendered by the Brewers after a poor 2023 season. He hit 13 home runs and slashed .215/.291/.376 for a 78 wRC+. But since he had hit 35 home runs in 2022 with a .219/.306/.461 line and 110 wRC+, it wasn’t totally crazy for the Bucs to expect a bounceback.
In the end, Tellez had an up-and-down season in 2024 that reflected his inconsistent results in prior years. His Pittsburgh tenure started terribly, as he hit .177/.239/.223 through the end of May. He then got scorching hot for three months, hitting .310/.346/.533 from June to August. But he’s gone cold again lately with a .116/.255/.209 performance in September.
Put together, Tellez has a .243/.299/.392 line and 89 wRC+ on the year. He isn’t considered a strong defender and isn’t a burner on the basepaths, so he doesn’t really offer much value if he’s not producing with the bat. Both FanGraphs and Baseball Reference consider him to have been below replacement level this year. The Bucs will likely spread the first base playing time around to a few different guys for their remaining games but the position should be a target area for them to upgrade this winter.
It’s also possible there’s a financial motivation for moving on from Tellez. Per Ethan Hullihen on X, Tellez would have unlocked a $200K bonus by getting to 425 plate appearances and is currently at 421.
Taylor has always been an excellent defender in center field but with inconsistent offensive results. Last year was perhaps his best showing at the plate, as he hit 21 homers for the Twins, but he still struck out 33.5% of the time. His offense cratered this year, as he struck out 35% of the time and slashed .193/.253/.290 for a wRC+ of 50. Among players with at least 300 plate appearances this year, only Brandon Drury and Eddie Rosario have a lower wRC+ mark. Oneil Cruz, who struggled defensively at shortstop, has been moved to center field lately.
The Bucs will put both players on waivers in the coming days but they are sure to go unclaimed. They won’t be postseason eligible with any claiming team and their recent performance won’t give them any appeal for the remaining games of the regular season. Each player has enough service time to reject an outright assignment and elect free agency, so they will likely be going into offseason mode a few days ahead of schedule.
Is this the end for him or does someone else take a shot? I think he might be headed for Asia in 2025.
I agree, he’s probably headed to Asia.
926 916 813 June July August ops for Rowdy after getting non Pirates hitting instruction. If you don’t mind his lack of hustle he will be on your radar if you need a 1b.
They still touring? Haven’t seen listened to them in awhile. My favorite song by them is Heat of the Moment. What’s yours?
Mine too. Wetton died. Howe is back with Yes. But Downes reformed the band this summer and they toured. Just wanted to provide you with vital info
I saw Yes at the Jones Beach Theater last month and then saw a Long Island Ducks game the next day. If you haven’t been to either venue, feel free to check them out.
Never was much of a Yes fan. I like Jon Anderson but they’re a bit too artsy for me. And they dumped Anderson to begin with. Don’t know much about the Ducks, but thanks. Maybe I’ll make a stop on my next trip to Manhattan
Jon Anderson is touring now at almost 80 with a backup band called the Band Geeks, saw them in Philly 2 weeks ago and they sound like the Yes of the 1970s.
I saw Yes in 1977 at the Capitol Center in Landover Maryland when I was stationed at Fort Meade
The Capitol Center no longer exists but Yes put on a very good show
Back then if this was your thing, you could smoke pot at concerts and security wouldn’t utter a peep
Kind of a shame about some groups. Yes without Jon. Styx without Dennis Deyoung. You’d think that as these guys age, they’d come together and give fans a treat. I mean, death is one thing but egos another
I also Crosby, Stills and Nash that same year and same venue
Even without Neil Young ( who’ve I had also seen in concert ) they put on a great performance.
Years later, David Crosby and Graham Nash had a falling out and never performed together again though they did make amends before Crosby died
I wonder what great music they could have collaborated on had their not been a falling out
same thing with Roger Waters and David Gilmour of Pink Floyd
They parted ways after recording “ The Wall” over musical direction and have never reunited
I still go to concerts and get the best seats I can for the wife and family. Was bummed when Aerosmith had to cancel their tour and was pumped for last Friday (pardon the pun)
It’s funny. Whether it’s Rod, or Elton, or McCartney, the Stones or The Who, you still get the whiff of weed every so often, even though the crowd is mostly—mostly—in their 60’s and up. Old habits die hard, I guess
I saw the Doobie Brothers ( for the 5th time in my lifetime) 2 years ago at the Star Pavilion in Burgetstown and despite it being outside, I could still smell the aroma of weed in the air
I have also seen Bruce Springsteen 5 times
In 1979, while stationed in Germany, I saw a concert that included Rory Gallagher, Mott the Hoople, Carl Palmer and Queen
It was at a soccer stadium so everyone was smoking hash because weed was so hard to come by and hash was easy to get
Missed seeing Queen. Damn. That would have been one helluva show
Some artists may not appreciate their hard work and legacy being reduced to a “treat”.
The problem with your thinking is that Deyoung was the main reason Styx ever made it to begin with. Some would say the same about Anderson.
Styx was formed by Deyoung and the Panozzo brothers. Funny that none of those guys are around anymore, albeit one is deceased
I’m all for legacy. But it’s ironic that too often, the guys who put that work in to build it are pushed out of the way
Think they would come together for the cash grab $$$.
I like the 80s bands better. Even Van Halen Aerosmith Tom Petty I prefer their 80s work. Probably like 60s better than 70s. It’s whatever you grew up with. I am one of the rare people who still listens to new music. I wasn’t around for any of those decades but from a neutral viewpoint the 80s killed it. A lot of good music that decade. 90s strong. All down hill after that. 2000 solid. 2010 weak 2020 mostly copies and oldies. Fewer and fewer new stars and most sound like decade or two previous. Maybe that’s why I can still listen to new music because it’s the same music I grew up with.
Well, the cash grab is the point. An awful lot of bands go on tour that are living off the legacy of the name, but without members who built the legacy. That’s fine and all and given what digital music streaming services have done to record sales, I don’t blame them nor do I begrudge them high ticket prices.
I grew up with and still love the original masters of the genre. And either as individuals or as groups, they still tour and make new music.
But streaming killed the industry, that and record execs pushing garbage out there for the kids. No musicianship. No writing ability. Same old garbage.
I listen to new rock music, too. I like a lot of Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam. I like Gary Clark Jr. There are others out there, too
Shame musicianship has been pushed aside in favor of relentless flow of regurgitated garbage these days
Rock music pretty much died after the 90s northwest grunge. Go go dolls all American rejects Nickelback had a good run but that’s ancient. And a drop off from the 90s bands. I listened to a few bands in 2010s that were good but not house hold names. Few rocking pop songs and pop rock is awesome so that’s cool but rock is dead. Been dead. It’s the Pittsburgh Pirates of music. Awesome in 60s 70s 80s and early 90s!
I am a classical and electronic person so I am set. This century has been incredible for me. And pop rock was fantastic as well although dying I would say. But rock has been long dead. Country too. Not my cup of tea but dated some country girls so gave it a try. Awful. But 80s 90s country? Not bad. Had that pop rock vibe. No idea how people listen to current country.
I saw both of them this summer and the Jon Anderson version is definitely better
And he’s a helluva good guy, too Flanster. Easy to be a fan
Dream, it depends on what you mean by “dead”. I’d disagree with you unless you mean new music being produced or what modern radio is pushing. That’s an entirely different story
Springsteen’s entire tour is sold out. The Stones sold out stadiums across the US this past summer. Pearl Jam is sold out everywhere. AC/DC, Metallica, sold out everywhere. And many, many others
You touch on country and I get it. The bigger question is, how can anyone listen to and like rap? Complete and utter garbage or as Keith Richard’s said, defecation for the ears. (And in my work, I was subject to tolerating it for decades)
But it’s been force fed to a generation of kids as “music”. Dear God
speaking of rap music, this type of music and its “ singers” and I use that term loosely, do not warrant being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
Rap is not Rock
When I saw Eric Clapton at the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh in 1977, tickets cost $6.50
When I saw Queen, tickets were 20 Duetchemarks or $10.
When I saw Kiss in 1974, tickets were $4.50
But when I saw Bruce Springsteen for the first time in 1999, tickets were $210
I saved every ticket stub from every concert I have ever attended and the difference in prices over a period of 20+ years is astounding
Meant new music. Rock was endangered by what mid 1990s and by 2000 absolutely dead. If you list the greatest pop stars or rappers of all time you will have many from this century. Rock it’s all senor citizens. But yeah any old act can tour and make tons of $. Their fans are still alive, have $ and they will gladly charge as much s they are willing to pay. Most people listen to same music as they did in teens 20s so they have no choice. No new rock music even if they were capable of enjoying new music. I am sure there are still rock bands and some people listen to them but nothing like other genre or the old days.
Rap is crap. 90s rap is superior to todays. I guess if you never heard music before and you just listen to what is popular of your time you think it’s the best. People are missing out. As someone born in the 90s 2010 to now should be my music and it sucks. The movies suck. TV though has been awesome. Trending down and fast but 2000 to 2020 was golden age of tv.
It’s hard though. Over 100 years of recorded music and film what new ideas are there? So much has been done.
I saw a video of ac dc and did they look awful. So so old. I couldn’t go to a concert if the rock band was over 50 and pop star over 40. Shakira J Lo pushed it to 50 but yeah can’t do it. I seen video of them in prime. Almost shocking and depressing seeing them old. And the worst thing a musician can say is “we are going to play you something from our new album”. Does anyone want to hear that? You are extremely lucky to have 1 hit. The greats have a handful of albums with a hit single or two on each. But anything you write after 30 is dog crap. Your record sales or lack of should have confirmed this. No one is buying your new music. No one wants to hear it. Please just play your hits. That’s what everyone paid for.
If they didn’t put them in the hall of fame then someone else would make a rap hall of fame and they would lose out on the $.
Video games cost $60 for decades and decades. They fairly recently moved up to $70 and a lot of people were vocal about it. One of the few things or only thing that didn’t go up in price. My entire life they cost $60. Can’t think of anything else like that.
music fans vote for their favorite artists for induction into the HOF and it’s a total farce
Rap, pop and hip hop isn’t rock music and none should even be considered for induction
Rock music was probably at its most terrible in the early 90s until Nirvana and Pearl Jam set it on its ear. In my opinion.
Yeah. Just saw a video of 80 year old Angus Young on the sidewalk in London. I understand that make up and hair dye play a large part as to why Mick, Ringo, Rod and Daltrey still look good but jeez, he looked ancient
Look, the Rock Hall was begun by guys like Jann Wenner. Read his book and try to hold down lunch. The arrogance. The entitlement. The effort to appear politically correct and culturally diverse became the focus and its complete garbage. Bad Company, Tull, Cocker, Boston, Styx, Kansas *aren’t* in the Hall, but rap acts are?
What a sick joke
Robert Pittman and Kathryn McGrath decided to transform MTV into a social engineering platform in the later 80’s. Look at what they pushed at kids, rather than music
Rap was one thing. Rammed down the throats of consumers. But pregnant teen shows, numerous other programming that celebrated the grotesque?
And music—especially rock music—was pushed aside
Lastly, I took the family to see Peter Gabriel here last year. The guy has a huge catalog of hits. Instead, he played his entire new record and sprinkled in some hits. Packed house largely sat on its hands the entire show
I like Gabriel. I admire his writing, musicianship and artistry. But I have to say that without radio playing parts of your new record as it did in the 70’s, I have to question the decision to play a new record in its entirety. I’d say it didn’t go well
Glam rock, big hair era. No fan of Poison? Cinderella? Firehouse? Neither was I
You know, the funniest thing is that younger audiences find all the touring bands of the 90’s, 80’s and even older. These guys tour and sell out too. After being force fed rap garbage on their radios and streamers, the human ear yearns for melody and musicianship
And it ain’t there in rap or “hip hop”
Best part is, people are afraid to say it
Garbage “music” by garbage people
But hey, even Poison can tour every summer and sell out with Gen Z types and younger in the audience because it sure beats the alternative
The Moody Blues weren’t inducted until 2016 I believe and Chicago until the following year
Foreigner is finally getting in this year
Dolly Parton was inducted last year
The Rock Hall is an oxymoron
Peter Gabriel was better as a solo artist than with Genesis and Genesis was a better band without Gabriel
That’s amazing to me because both were great musicians in their own right yet not as great when they were together
Yeah, agree 100%. Gabriel grew up a great deal, of course. Really got involved in human rights efforts. Good man
I was mistaken earlier. Judith McGrath was the MTV boss who changed everything and for the worst
as did Quincy Jones when he threatened MTV to either allow Michael Jackson and other black artists to perform videos on that platform or risk losing rockers that he had produced on his record label
my very first concert was at the Civic Arena in Pittsburgh in 1973
Elton John’s Goodbye Yellow Brick Road tour
2 encores
Saturday Nght’s Alright for Fighting and
Funeral for a Friend
I saw Elton in ‘19 on his farewell tour, part 1
I’ve seen hundreds of concerts but amazingly, his was likely the loudest. Great show but they must have really cranked the amps up
I remember the concerts in the 1970s at the civic arena. Seemed like they had concerts every week. Tickets if I can remember were between 5.00 and 10.00. I saw them all. Best one was David Bowie,after he got away from the Ziggy stardust crap. Was 1976…he started out in a tux and 2 hours later he completed the concert. Worth every penny. Another one I loved was Richie Blackmore’s Rainbow….still love Man On. A Silver Mountain.
Yes those were the days…great concerts, great buccos teams and the start of the Steelers dynasty
I grew up with three older brothers. In the 60s Motown was what a lot of white kids listened to. KQV was the top station for rock n roll. I remember in 1966 when the beach boys sang Good Vibrations…one of the best to ock songs of all time. John Lennon,when hearing it for the first time praised it as great. This brought the Beach Boys into rock.
Still one of my favorites is Eve Of Destruction by Barry mcguire
First concert: 1973, Elton John… i feel like there’s a movie there
I have a big problem with the rock n roll hall of fame. Why isn’t Johnny Rivers in the hall??? One of the greatest and most underrated performers.
I remember it was new years eve 1977. My best friend and I wanted to go see Elvis. He was doing a show at the Monroeville holiday house. There was a big new years eve party that I wanted to go to. So I persuaded him to go to the party. I said we can catch Elvis anytime.
I’m still kicking myself, that summer Elvis died.
I actually seen Poison and Cinderella in concert. Two of the top 10 rock bands I ever seen. And I seen a lot of bands. My father is a music lover and seen anyone and everyone worth seeing. Both have a full set of good songs. Didn’t bother with playing anything that wasn’t a hit. Band sounded fantastic. Insane energy. Now I was a kid so no idea how they sound now but they were far removed from their prime sometime in early mid 2000s. Bret Michaels good rock voice, not a good singer, but good enough for his music. Cinderella guy is it Tom something who cares but what a interesting voice. One of a kind love it. Been to many oz fest. Even more warp tours. What amazing values seeing so so many bands. Poison was like a mini one of those. Had 3 or 4 opening acts. I seen a lot of the hair bands. Most were excellent performers. Good musicians. Had lots of songs you knew. Def Leppard sfrong. Warrant a bit weak. Slaughter was fantastic but not enough songs. Quit Riot even fewer songs. They were openers though. My father doesn’t love music enough to see someone like that headline. And it would have been child abuse to make me suffer through that. But as openers they were fine. Tesla hugely underrated. I don’t believe the problem is the music. The problem is you are too old. You like what you listened to as a teen and early 20s. Everyone is like this. I am just wired different if you haven’t noticed. And your guys music taste is weak. All these bands listed and not a single mention of Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Black Sabbath, Fleetwood Mac, Ramones, The Clash, The Doors. Those are the best 70s bands. Hip and cool for their time. You guys like some real Grandpal stuff. 70s are one of the weaker decades, not 2010s 2020s weak. Or before 1950 no electric guitar weak but not 60s 80s 90s good. Probably on par with 2000s obviously 70s rock and country destroys 2000s but electronic and rap wasn’t really a thing then and much of the pop music was disco or not fantastic. The Beatles are 60s but surprised they didn’t carry over. And The Eagles f ing suck man but surprised no one mentioned them.
Actually thought that show was at the Arena, bucco. I could be wrong
When my wife and I were dating, she wanted to see the Temptations and the Spinners at the Holiday House. Being a rock guy, I really didn’t want to go
But boy, those guys were great. Just a great show
You’re hung up in the name. It’s a music hall fame. Including all music makes so much more $. That’s it end of story as why they do it. And music hall of fame doesn’t have the same ring to it and rock and roll.
Tom Kiefer is the guy’s name from Cinderella. Hated his voice.
McCartney is the best concert I’ve ever seen and by far. And you’re wrong about The Beatles. They’re as popular as ever. Just check record sales. They could have closed down the genre after those guys, as a group and individuals. No equals
Loved Fleetwood Mac in the white album and Rumours era, before Stevie’s coke period that put a hole in her sinus passages and dropped her voice a couple octaves. Saw them on the Tusk Tour and she was white as a ghost. Forgot some of the words to Landslide
Absolute worst concert I ever saw was The Eagles here on the Long Run Tour. No stage presence, just going through the motions. Only Walsh talked to the crowd. The Little River Band blew them off the stage. Years later while watching their story on Netflix, I found out that Frey and Felder had a fistfight backstage here. Guess that explains it
I mentioned Aerosmith above. Had good tickets for last Friday’s tour opener here that they had to cancel due to Steve’s broken larnyx. TheMan3 talked about ticket prices were in the 70’s. Well, upwards of $400 apiece to see these guys. Oh well
Those reality shows had big ratings. You had the whole world at your finger tips why would you want to watch the same music videos over and over again? You could get on the internet and download any song you wanted for free. Or adult videos. Eventually you could watch a music video or concert anytime you wanted for free. Going to reality tv was brilliant. If you wanted music there was vh1 vh1 classic fuse much mtv2 mtv ocho. Many followed with reality because that’s what people wanted. The consumer spoke and they wanted reality tv.
And the idea that fans vote in acts isn’t accurate. Fans get a chance to vote in acts *in addition to* what the Rock Hall committee —the politically correct good old boys club—puts forward. And what they put forward is garbage, year after year
I like what Paul Rodgers of Badco said about the Hall. Rock was supposed to be anti-establishment. He apparently told them years ago, please, don’t nominate us. The idea of such a hall runs counter to what the genre was supposed to be all about
And yet, the guy’s voice is one of rock’s finest.
Still, rename it to Music Hall. Because so many of these acts sure ain’t rock
I had to laugh at your rendering of “the golden age” of rock and TV, Dream
I’d say the 70’s for both—perhaps late 60’s for the former. You’re right though, so much now is just regurgitated ideas for a new generation
Once in a while, the mold gets broken. Eddie Van Halen in music. A Sopranos, The Wire or Band of Brothers on TV. But the problem now is getting your talents past music and TV execs with other ideas
the majority of the concerts I attend were in Maryland when I was in the military but still saw several in Pittsburgh
I remember having tickets to see Emerson Lake and Palmer in 1978 at the Arena and they canceled the orchestra that was supposed to accompany their show. It was such a disappointment, they announced the cancellation when fans were standing outside waiting for the doors to open
the Pirates are going to lose again today and mostly because these players, despite having played in 158 games, still don’t know the strike zone and either swing at everything thrown in their direction ( Cruz and DLC) or get called out on strikes ( Bart)
if Haines comes back next season except the same thing
MTV is like the rap genre itself. It’s geared to shock value more than anything else. “Style,” if you’d call it that, over substance. To me, shock gets old for anyone with a discerning mind. It attracts kids because it’s so, uh, taboo in its approach. And it glorifies the grotesque. Don’t care what color you are. It gets old. And fast
I didn’t suggest not liking the bands you mentioned, Dream, I just never saw them in concert
Though I never liked Black Sabbath. I did see Deep Purple in the 70’s, but that’s about the closest I got to heavy metal
LA Woman is my favorite Doors song and was the very last song Jim Morrison ever sang as a member of the band. He was also hammered when it was recorded for the title track of the album
I really liked Greg Lake’s booming voice. Loved C’est La Vie and Lend Your Love
But like Yes, boy did they go off on wild, artistic tangents with prog rock. Another couple guys who died way too young
Well, Morrison stripped naked and tried to do a show au natural in Miami, I believe. Police didn’t appreciate that
Janis had a loud, profanity laced argument mid song here with a promoter here that police eventually closed down
The hallucinogenic drug era must’ve been something to see
Blackmore was known for doing 60-75 minute shows with Purple and then walking off, refusing to do encores
Like you, TheMan3, I wasn’t a fan of Ozzy or Sabbath or heavy headache music
in 1977 at the Capitol Center in Maryland, the first band was Styx,followed by Heart then the headliner, Kansas
I have seen more concerts than I can count but this was the best one of them all and even better than the all day concert in Germany that featured Queen though it’s a close second
OldDude said this earlier, the fact that neither Styx or Kansas are in Hall is a disgrace to music
I also saw BTO and Marshall Tucker Band in ‘75 now that I think about it
Linda Ronstadt and REO Speedwagon in 1980 at the Civic Arena as well
I add Boston to that list because really, they opened the world of FM radio and literally came from nowhere. Delp’s voice. Scholz’s guitar. Saw them 11 times locally. But as years go by, reviewers term them “corporate rock.” What baloney
How is Bad Company not in? Or Tull? Or Cocker?
I also saw Boston, in Germany and at of all places, a high school gymnasium
But you’re right, those bands you mentioned should be in the Hall, too
Lend me your love tonight and Brain Salad Surgery stands out as a few of my favorite ELP songs
They figured out a way to incorporate orchestral sounds into their songs and it was powerful, including using a synthesizer
I “ dated “ some country girls too in my younger years but it wasn’t for their love of music no matter what it was
You just can’t read. I said 60s 70s 80s was golden age of rock. 3 different styles all incredible. Rocks been dead for 20 years so not possible for it to be golden age. Tv golden age is over but most certainly was 2000 to 2020. You just haven’t seen the shows but I could give you dozens and dozens to try. There’s always been good tv for the time but only a small percentage would be entertaining now. If you lived though the times you have fond memories and want to believe it is amazing but come on it ain’t the sopranos! You only had 3 channels so that alone severely handicaps you. Modern shows had to compete with hundreds of cable channels and then dozens of streaming services. With more quantity comes more quality. Maybe not percentage wise but overall certainly. But lets say 50s 60s 70s was actually better. Well from 2000 to 2020 you could watch pretty much any tv show ever made on Netflix for under $10 a month. That right there was the golden age of tv. Every tv show ever made all in one place. But tv this century is the best unless you love westerns. So many choices. 3 channels? Come on now. Movie actors rarely did tv in those days. You couldn’t have any sex, real language, violence etc. Couldn’t even have married couples sleep in same bed. TV is one of the few things that are better this century. For any sport, movies, food, music I will take last century.
I had no idea if you liked ot didn’t like them. Just if someone asked me to name 70s bands those names immediately come to mind. Not yes styx etc. 70s is the best pure rock smoke some weed and enjoy music. I like a lot of it. Think I prefer the more pop rock of 60s and 80s. And others agree as Beatles Stones are as big as it gets. You have to have that pop in there to capture every demographic. Metallica was awesome. Pretty much every male under 30 even 40 was probably into them from what I can tell. But you need women and mom and dad to get Beatle mania.
Actually, that’s not true. The Beatles music transcends the genre. Ask literally any musician about their musicianship and writing. Best part is, you don’t even realize it at your age. It’s in commercials. TV shows. Movies. Anyplace there’s music. No other band can say that. Brilliance. These guys were just brilliant
First off, again, it depends on what you mean by “dead”. Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters…these guys aren’t even 60 yet in many cases. They sell millions in tickets and records. Many other examples
I listed the Sopranos but I prefer the Godfather where mob shows are concerned.
But some call it the greatest series
I listed The Wire and worked in a similar environment for decades
I listed the Band of Brothers trilogy but it’s Spielberg and Hanks. None better
Your comparison is those days is like comparing athletes of different eras. Impossible. What we saw on TV is what was culturally appropriate. But your era relies more on shock value where mine only needed imagination. I don’t need to see sex all over the TV to understand. Or blood. Your generation applauds such as being “artistic” or “creative”. It’s neither. And it placates the audience and stifles imagination
True actors, actresses, writers, directors knew how to build portrayals. They didn’t need shock value of CGI
In many ways, I feel sorry for young people. All they see and hear is so artificial
Just so you know that I am not like most “Younger people” If I named my 1000 favorite movies 97 percent of them would be before 2010. 1000 favorite songs 97 percent before 2010. Tv is only thing different for me. 97 percent would be from 1990 to present day. Majority from 2000 to 2010 like 80 to 90 percent. They still make a few good tv shows each year and Seinfeld Frazier were hilarious. Lots of great tv shows for their time. They just don’t hold up over time.
Will say this. Comedies where better in any age vs now. They stopped making good comedies over a decade a go. I am in the minority here though. I seen friends watch these shows and laugh like crazy.The more I see of people’s taste I lean closer to the living in a simulation theory. Literally feel all alone. Is there anyone else like me out there? I have a few friends and family. That’s about it. Few people on internet.
You’re just old and haven’t tried new things. Dozens hundreds of shows as good as Sopranos wire brothers. I agree they are great. Just can add dozens that are just as good or almost as good or even better. Many you need Netflix Amazon Paramount to watch. So if you aren’t a streamer then tv would look really bad. But fx had sons of anarchy the league justified amc had mad men breaking bad walking dead hell on wheels. So it hasn’t all been streaming. It is now. Tv is dead. By golden age I am including streaming. Tv is finished and golden age is over. You try any of those shows? If you didn’t like breaking bad and game of thrones the problem is you. And if you don’t stream well 95 percent of the best tv shows the past decade weren’t on any tv channel. Shows are the lowest form of entertainment anyways. The world of youtube content creators and video games is where the best entertainment is. Video games generate more revenue than the music and movie industry combined. And more people watch YouTube than any other streaming.
I’m old fashioned, my favorite television programs were from the 60’s into the 70’s
Green Acres, Beverly Hillbillies, Gilligan’s Island and even the Munsters
Stupid comedy shows
in the 70’s only really one was my favorite
All in the Family. It broke so many cultural barriers that television was never the same after that show ended
The Big Bang Theory is a funny program
I thought music died with American Pie
You like what you grew up. I’m a different cat. I like what’s good. I’d rather watch cheers Seinfeld Frazier everyone loves Raymond over big bang. Amazing you like big bang. I think it is popular because of all the member berries pop culture references. I like star wars trek comics i will watch this show. As just a show it is very mid but because of that people elevate it.
you like what’s good for you, Dream, and that’s fine but don’t try to insult me for what I like. You’re better than that
Suggesting that what I like isn’t good because it’s not what you like is pure nonsense
Everyone has different tastes. Personally I have never liked science fiction so I wouldn’t be a Star Trek fan. In fact, I have never seen Star Wars because of my dislike of SF
But I would never suggest that because you like it, it’s not good
It’s just not for me
Not an insult. You can like whatever you like. I like the Munsters. Like the Addams family even better. Good shows as well. It’s a psychology thing. After a certain age most people stop liking new things in certain areas as well as severe reduction in trying new things. Majority of people drink the same beer smoke the same cigarettes listen to the same music they did in their 20s. People believe what they want and not willing or capable of open minded evaluation. As you grow older you don’t like change. You drink same soda, order same drinks at bar, eat same food, same sex positions, heck some people take same vacations. Same hobbies. Same sports. Same every thing. Especially music. Olivia Rodrigo is both commercially and critically successful. Won’t find many people over 30 listening to her. Lady Gaga same thing, been around awhile so have to move it to 40 or 45. I shouldn’t have to explain it. It’s just a know thing. Parents hate their kids music and can’t understand why anyone would listen to it. I am pushing 30 so so far so good. Maybe next year I stop liking new things. I think I am just wired wrong. Can see things objectively. Like two of my favorite movies are king kong and gone with the wind. Like top 100 all time. From 1930s. That’s not normal. Magnificent 7 from early 60s. Like the one from the 1950s even better. You don’t like science fiction movies but never seen star wars. To me that is I don’t like 60s music but never heard the Beatles. I don’t like women but I’ve never seen breasts. That’s the difference between me and most people. I am open-minded and give new things a chance. I don’t like rap music. But dr dre Eminem tupac were fantastic rappers and had some fantastic songs. The lyrics, the beat, their rythem all superb. I can admit it’s good. But it’s not for me. You don’t have to like new shows. It’s fine you don’t. I am not going to try to convince you. But let’s look at things analytically. Oh wait my point exactly you don’t like analytics. Lol. I won’t try to get you to like new tv shows but how about a lil sales pitch for analytics? So movie actors didn’t do tv and now they do. You had 3 channels. Now you have hundreds of them and dozens of streaming services. Budgets increased. Fierce competition. Special effects have drastically advanced. There’s almost a century worth of tv shows and over a century worth of writing to learn from. From all that they should be better. More history to take ideas from. More $. More technology. Well IMO most of it isn’t better percentage wise. Just there is so much more that more emerges. The best of the best is really good. And another factor. Before vhs, dvd, blu ray, streaming you would air a tv show and that’s it. Watch it on tv and it’s gone. Only 3 channels so it has to appeal to everyone. Heck most households had 1 tv so everyone couldn’t just go off and choose what they wanted to watch. Now they can make target specific shows. Go after who it appeals to and if they don’t tune it live they can profit off it for eternity. For instance. One of my favorite shows of all time is black sails. I love Pirates. Pirate at heart. Pirate my music. Pirates are my baseball team. I enjoy rum. I am a pirate. But 3 channels having to appeal to everyone a pirate tv show is a bad bet. It couldn’t be put on tv because of the violence language sex all that good stuff. Some say that isn’t needed but that is all stuff in society. But they could have made a pg version of that show. But couldn’t last century because it’s Pirates. Cowboys sure. Every channel had half a dozen westerns. But not Pirates. But even then if someone had the awful idea to put a pirate show up against gone smoke, cosby, all in family they could not do it. Wouldn’t have the budget. The set and effects would be far too expensive for nbc abc cbs. But since they could put it on a paid premium channel, sell dvds blu rays, sell the streaming rights etc they were able to make it. Some even most of my favorite tv shows couldn’t have been made last century. How can I call that the golden age of tv? But now any tv show can be made and I can watch any tv show from last century. Whatever tv show is on one of the 3 channels at time of air vs every tv show ever created. I say no better time to be a fan of entertainment.
Side note. Watch whatever the heck you want. But if you are like most Pirates fans I know you like Pirates in general. If not stop reading. But if so then if you haven’t seen black sails I highly recommend it. If you seen it and don’t like it then we can’t be friends. It’s basically the sopranos but with pirates. I seen the johnny Depp cheese, seen all the blackbird movies, tried to watch cutthroat island. One time I was so drunk on rum I even tried ice pirates. I never seen a better pirates movie or show than black sails and it’s not even close. It’s the godfather of pirates. The sopranos is my favorite formula. Sons of anarchy is sopranos with bikers. Yellow stone is sopranos with ranchers. You guys watch that? Kevin Costner is hard to beat. He adds a extra rating star to everything. Game of thrones is sopranos but they have swords instead of guns. Maybe it’s my taste that is bad. I just been watching different versions of the sopranos for 20 years! But it’s like low payroll and fireworks, a winning proven formula! Nah I love Archy Bunker. From 80s I love Al Bundy. 90s Homer Simpson. #WinningFormula Love those characters. But today I have those and freaking Pirates!
If the Pirates baseball team was a movie it would be ice pirates. Ice pirates would be a awesome hockey team name.
Blanket generalizations, Dream
You have a mental image in mind and buy stereotypes
Most of what you’ve written here is simply self indulgent stream of consciousness and nothing more
You’d say then that I’m the fly in the ointment I’ve tried new things where music and entertainment are concerned. I listed some of the shows I have streamed elsewhere.
Where you decry only limited offerings back in the day, I laud acting and portrayals
You discuss rap and name a couple of guys like Dre who ‘made some great songs’
I’ve listened to three or four decades of the genre. I’ve yet to hear a “great song”
But I digress
“Perception is reality” was a common saying a while back and it still stands. Every generation wishes to see itself as the best yet while ignoring historical data on events, people and places. It’s human nature
Your perceptions are your reality. And to say that older folks are so staid in their ways that they won’t try new things is fallacious.
Black Sails is the best series I’ve ever seen
Rewatched it ten times now
That Starz and now Netflix hasn’t signed on to create a Treasure Island spin off with the surviving characters and creative license thrown in is criminal. Insane
paragraphs are useful when arguing your point
that said, I grew up on pasta and tomato sauce, because we’re Italians and my parents grew up during the depression, they too ate food that was easy to make by hand
I am 69, and can’t stomach the taste of pasta or tomatoes in any form
My dislike of science fiction is based upon watching Science Fiction theater on Channel 11 late Saturday nights. Then it became Chiller Theater which also had a basis for science fiction
By the time Star Trek was introduced on television, I lost interest and never wanted to watch another science fiction movie or show again
if the Pirates baseball team was a movie, a more accurate title would be “ perennial losers on steroids “
I forgot about Mash, but once Colonel Blake and Trapper John left the show, in my opinion, the comedy began to become stagnant
Not immediately but in time, especially after Major Burns left
“paragraphs are useful when arguing your point”
No need to. I am not trying to make a point or argue anything. Enjoy whatever you want. I will take tireds opinion on rap. I tried listening to it briefly and realized it wasn’t for me. Poor guys been listening for 4 decades wow. Impressive. Don’t know how he does it. I thought a few people had talent and great production value but awful on my ears. At best a few more pop songs ot pop songs that had a 20 second rap part in them were ok. Like walk this way Aerosmith run DMC for you old timers.
I am a old timer. IMO best rap 90s early 2000s. Best rock late 60s to early 90s. Best country from dawn of man until late 90s early 2000s. Best pop 80s 90s 2000s. Best movies 70s 80s 90s. Only thing I think best 2010s is tv. They can simply do things this century that they couldn’t do last century. Movies should be the same thing but they gotten so expensive they don’t take many risks. And streaming. Netflix makes a movie it’s 1 watch and done. A show can be 8 or 10 episodes. One thing better about old tv. 20 30 episodes. But golden age no commercials and watch whenever you want. And in color! With a remote! And it’s all talkies!
I’ve seen them with both front guys and Dennis is by far better!
jesus, Dream, please stop taking everything literally
I know you’re not trying to argue your point, it’s just a figure of speech
I need a drink, even though I haven’t drank any alcohol in 32 years
Do any of you guys love tv shows before your time? Like leave it to beaver, I love lucy? Like Paul do you like the lone ranger or superman radio program? Sorry for treating you guys like an experiment but it’s hard for me to refuse free research.
Another failure of Nutting. He should be in here personally eating up free information. At least send a intern. Alias of course since he would be to coward to show himself. There is a wealth of valuable information here. Companies spend tons of $ on consumer research when it’s available for free in places like this.
the Beach Boys album Pet Sounds is highly regarded as one of the best albums of that generation of music
You can be a serious guy Paul. Sometimes I take you serious.
I gotta take tired more serious though. Guys listened to crap for 30 or 40 years and seen black sails 10 times. That’s some serious it.
@RoD
“how can anyone listen to and like rap? Complete and utter garbage”
:all dogs in the area start barking:
How about rap rock? Linkin Park, kid rock, beastie boys, rage, limp Bizkit lol? Not my favorites and not incredible but? Any fans? I heard their hits. Didn’t stand the test of time imo but can see why they were popular at the time. Or reggae rap? Music goes to some interesting places sometimes. I don’t love disco or anything but can easily see why it took over for a bit in time.
Agree 100%. After Frank left, it became a different show
The writing, portrayals and cinematography of that show are like no other. And in fact, the final episode is alternately the most and least satisfying finale ever, only because you wanted to see how Silver, Max, Rackham and Ann progressed.
Deserving of a spin off to be sure
Uh, no dude, no
Dear God, no
Why not bring disco into it while you’re at it and completely insult music lovers. Perhaps the greatest thing Bill Veeck ever did as ChiSox GM was having “Disco Night at Comiskey”. Even better than putting a midget or one-armed outfielder in the lineup
Look it up. May be before your time
If having black sails meant erasing every tv show from the 20th century from existence I am keeping black sails and it’s a easy decision. I would do that with a lot of this century shows. I can appreciate how good they were at the time but would rather watch a 2000s show. Losing Frasier would be a lil tuff though. Watched every episode. Made me go check out cheers for a bit. But I seen it and laughed. Will never be as funny again. But black sails I can enjoy the scenario, appreciate the acting, and feel the action. Frasier though might be the funniest show I ever seen. Going back to previous decades I think it’s you had to been there at the time. I’d rather go back to Pauls time and sit around the radio. It’s just me. If a video game isn’t one of the absolute best I ever played I stop playing. Same with tv. I watched oceans 11 the other night it was solid. Next night tried 12 turned it off, tried 13 turned it off. Listened to a audiobook. So much to do don’t need to settle. Better get me from the get go. Well the first season is bad then season to is ok but once you make it to season 3…
Not for me but it’s for a lot of people. Barry Gibb has a lot more $ than a lot of people I do like. If I was young then I would have liked it a bit maybe. I appreciate the song writing and few songs are catchy. Can see why it died.
Few records beat the debut. Few series ever recapture the feel of the first season. Few movies ever come near the greatness of the first one (Ever see Jaws II? Or better yet, Jaws III in 3D? Oy!)
That’s why you appreciate The Beatles. No roadmap—they set the course and continually evolved. Four musical geniuses.
To me, that’s the epitome of “greatness”. Evolving at an unparalleled level and topping what you did before
The BeeGees were a talented group before disco. Yeah, they defined the genre but grab a Greatest Hits collection and you might be shocked
Movies agree. All I have is Terminator 2, Aliens, Empire strikes back. As good or better or real close. Xmen 2 is better than x1 but not great movies to begin with. I love lethal weapon 2 but it’s not 1. Here’s one where I seen mad max 1 time and road warrior a dozen times. Superior not close to me. I think the 3rd Harry Potter and lord of the rings are best. Dark knight best batman. Ill take star trek 2. Godfather 2 and top gun Maverick were strong. But yeah hundreds of years of cinema that’s all i got.
Albums I could name hundreds. Some didn’t have instant success. Many had even more success after first album. Some have different singers after first and our known best with the new singer. Some just put out 3 4 5 equally great albums. Can name hundreds. But yeah most artist don’t have any good albums. Ones that have 1 usually don’t have a 2nd. But much more names than the movies list.
Seasons is majority of what I watch. Usually they have 2 or 3 good seasons. Final 1 or 2 seasons tend to be worst most of tbe time. Trying to milk that $. Plenty of 1 season and done but most of what I listed has multiple quality seasons. Now 2nd season significantly better than first is more rare. But equally is common. Once you set a bar high it’s hard to clear. And if season 1 wasn’t good I likely didn’t return for season 2. Seinfeld early seasons weak. Got much better. Frazier I think got better. Not a huge cheers guy but did it get better with Frazier Woody etc? Adding a new great character could improve things. Games a thrones the dwarf had that Eminem blonde hair dye job that was pretty bad. Many say black sails season 2 is better. Like I said shows I like I usually find season 1 2 3 about equal. Majority think white lotus season 2 is superior. I couldn’t get into it at all. The hotel manager made season 1 for me. If not for him I might not have finished it.
Barry Gibb was more than just the Bee Gees
He’s written over 1000 songs not just with his brothers
He wrote the theme for Grease as an example, Frankie Valli sang it
He wrote music for many singers of the 70’s and 80’s
I have their greatest hits collection on CD, their harmony has never been replicated again by any other band or artists but it was a different type of music too
I own over 1000 CDs of music from all types and generations
And each are categorized by the name of the artist or band on a set of shelves that consumes a third of the living room wall, starting from the letter “ A”
I’m so happy that people on this post shared some great memories and experiences over their lifetime that are outside of baseball. A nice chance to get to virtually know everyone. Did anyone see KC and the Sunshine band at PNC a few years back?
@human being. Hello to a fellow black sheep. Usually we get what’s this have to do about Rowdy Tellez!
Agreed, HB. Although, I’m sure the mute button has been working overtime over some of our musical choices here
I like one hit wonders. There nobody, no fan base, no hype, and out of nowhere comes a hit song. Must be pretty good song huh?
My musical taste is whatever catches my attention. Movie and tv soundtracks. Tony Soprano just driving around getting 10 mpg jammin to that awesome intro. Black sails pretty strong. Game of thrones I never skipped that intro. Halo soundtrack. I love Olivia Rodrigo one day and next day I am listening to 50s 60s lollipop every day, it’s my party and I’ll cry if i want to, leader of the pack. Heartbeat buddy holly is one of my favs. Crimson and clover from 70s is great. Angel of the mourning. Then on to 90s Shakira Spanish only, talk about good rock music that’s a hidden gem if you don’t need English. Some early 2000s pop rock Branch Avril Evanescence Alanis angry women yelling with some great rock. Slow it down some and hit the 90s for grunge and country garth brooks alan Jackson Alabama toby Keith maybe get a lil artsy and add some old crow medicine show. I’m a wild man, I might go jam to some this land is your land. Watch the Nicholas brothers tear it up to some jazz and jive. Move on to some Zedd. Then some jeepers creepers and bam some daft punk. And since it’s stuck in my head some Icelandic folk pop. Getting late so wind down with some Khatia Buniatishvili.
Oh wow. Totally forgot. I been to a rap concert before. It’s not my fault I had too. It’s a rule that you never turn down an opportunity to date a juggalo. If you don’t know you don’t know. But if you ever hear I’m a juggalo you wanna date me just say yes.
Well, it’s better than your ladyboy fetish, I guess
Tellez and MAT are Royals
They are getting a weeks head start on vacation.
if the Royals are looking for automatic strikeouts, these are their guys
Human Being, I never saw KC and the Sunshine Band but I am a big fan of bands that use horns in their music
Now I did see Electric Light Orchestra some years back, they incorporate strings in their music which I am also a fan of, especially the violin
The original Doobie Brothers had two separate drummers and a horn section including a band member who played the violin
Nope but they got some hits and I am walking on sunshine talking to you guys.
Ever hear little talks by of monsters and men? Pretty much a one hit wonder from 10 15 years ago but soon as you said horns it popped into my potato brain because its a pop song with a horn solo. Too dang catchy of a song though and now it will be stuck in my head for who knows how long.
How about November rain? Nice lil orchestra to go with a rock song.
Walking on Sunshine was Katrina and the Waves, dude. One hit wonder, propelled by MTV
“ Walking on Sunshine “ is a feel good song and a mood changer
He should team up with Daniel Vogelbach and go to the WWE! “The Big Swingers” tag team!
DAMNED: I just hope Rowdy doesn’t start stress eating over being released.
“Start stress eating”..That ship actually sailed over 3 yrs ago.
Or add Joey Gallo to that mix and you’ve got a great core of a barnstorming beer league team.
Just like Rinku Singh became Veer in the WWE. Keep the tradition going.
That should happened 3 4 months ago! Bucs seem to do everything backwards. Sounds like Neil Huntington crap! Thought Ben was better than that.
At least Tellez turned things around after a bad Apil and May. But can’t say the same about MAT. With how good Billy Cook has looked defensively, he should have been up in early August. Even Oneil Cruz looks great in CF right now.
Who would have played cf 1b? Rowdy was good and unfortunately MAT wasn’t but was their only cf.
The other first baseman who should have also been released, worthless Connor Joe.
What did they have to lose other than the next 6 games?
if Ben was better than that he wouldn’t be supporting bringing back Shelton
What a joke the Pirates are. I mean these guys have underperformed but cutting them with 6 games to go is disgraceful.
Trying to save 6 days of salary?
The ones that should be out of jobs is GMBC and Shelton
They would have added Grandal too, but Skenes has one more start.
Bart caught Skenes’ last start
They only save money if a team claims them, which I’m not sure a team will at this point.
Exactly so really just a slap to the veterans. Sorry I know they sucked but not really the way you treat players with 6 games to go. Not going to learn a thing out of the guys recalled that you don’t already know.
Meh. If you want to make millions of $$$, then it is really a job that garners no sympathy.
This is done all the time. Nothing disrespectful about it. Don’t know why it bothers you so much.
They save 200k on Tellez
They’re not saving any salary by DFAing them. They’ll go unclaimed and maybe a team needs defense or a HR bat to squeeze into the playoffs….but I doubt such a team exists right now.
I 100% agree they won’t go claimed. Just absolutely bush league management with 6 games left.
One could argue that this should already have been done. You can’t older vets on the team if you feel you have replacements.
They are saving some money, Tellez was about to hit a bonus.
Don’t disagree, but when MLB reduced the September roster from 40 things like this happen. Young players need at-bats.
6 games left… what are you going to learn?
you’re going to learn that both Shelton and Haines shouldn’t have jobs next season
Certainly agree with that!
I miss the old September call ups. For some it was a nice start to their careers. But for others, it was the only chance they ever got to be big league players. It gave fans of teams that were out of it a kind of preview of the next season. Yeah it was always kind of weird when one team had 40 players in the dugout and the other had just 25 or so, but that just added to the strategy.
It’s one week. Gets a few players playing time. This is common procedure and wouldn’t come as a surprise to these 2 veterans. When you sign a 1 year deal with a non lock playoff team you sign up for this.
I agree 100%. I feel sympathy for the regular Joes out thee. When a dude makes millions a year, you have to put up with some discomfort.
Why don’t you rip the Reds for cutting Bell loose then?
I mean, we get it, they suck and are cheap. Find some other horse to beat.
What’s funny is that you’ll get on your high horse when a guy is getting $3M already, underperforms, and isn’t getting an extra $200K…
But people getting outright fired and having wages stolen who actually do their jobs well…not a word.
As mentioned in the article…. Rowdy was FOUR at-bats away from a $200K bonus….
That’ll help the ole Front Office attract potential free agents…
Pure slime
$ attracts free agents. If Pittsburgh offers them the most they will sign. They won’t count on any non guaranteed $ just like Rowdy didn’t. This is nothing new for Pittsburgh. Been doing anything they could to save $ for decades even if it means upsetting players.
Ok sure buddy. Whatever you say.
At the end of the day, you have the conclusion in your mind already, that the Pirates are cheap, and you’ll just assume whatever it takes to fit that end.
Here’s a thought… if you performed well enough to force your way onto the lineup card, you’d earn your bonus.
But no. You want to reward the guy who did below replacement level for half the season.
.116 BA for September. Sounds worthy of a bonus in my book.
Whatever happened to this being a performance based business?
And if you or I did below average work for half a year, where would we be?
On the street. No more money coming in (which he’s getting salary) and if we demanded a bonus?
They’d call security to haul us out of the building.
I mean, get real.
bestone
Rowdy was FOUR at-bats away from a $200K bonus….
=============================
So what? I once had achievement bonuses baked into my separation contract. If I didn’t get one, I didn’t get one. I didn’t expect my employer to simply hand me the money because i am a nice guy.
maybe had Rowdy returned to his 2022 form when he was hitting homers on a more consistent basis, he would have had more plate appearances long before this month
But he sucked for the first two months of the season and saw less playing time for awhile
I don’t feel bad for a player who didn’t produce for most of the season yet still got paid almost $3 million dollars then doesn’t reach the pinnacle for a bonus because he was released
Rowdy only has himself to blame
Rowdy Tellez is no superstar. If you wanna cut him, you cut him.
All this sympathy over rich people’s money.
Liover is quite possibly my favorite player right now. I hope he gets a longer look in 2025.
These moves should have happened Sept. 1 if not before as far as Liover. IKF was a decent pick up but he’s not an every day ss.
You his mom? Dating him? Are you Liover? Interesting favorite player.
No, Liover is my favorite player because I’ve watched him go through the system. I watched the Missoula Osprey in their final season, so I have soft spots for people like Liover, Dominic Canzone, and Corbin Carroll (even Andy Yerzy lol). I’ve talked to him a few times too, he’s a good guy.
NJBirdsfan, the Bucs suck because their owner is cheap. They have the next lowest payroll in baseball. Fans deserve better
They cut Tellez? What are they going to do for pitching in their next blowout? That 45 MPH heater was deceiving.
Most random thing ever I am assuming they can be picked up on waivers? Must have a known buyer. Regardless another disappointing season for pirates fans
Nutting hoping to save 6 game checks.
You do realize that these contracts are guaranteed, yes?
So he’s getting everything but the $200K he didn’t earn by say, batting .116 for September. That’s worthy of a bonus now….116
It amazes me that some fans don’t know that contracts are guaranteed.
Yes, they’re available via the Waiver system… but not available for Postseason play. I suspect they’ll just sit out the final week and accept Assignments if proffered by the Bucs. Strange timing as MiLB is wrapping up.
Not random at all. Veteran soon to be free agents are dfa all the time in September to free playing time for others. Should have been done before so another team could claim him and have him for post season. But maybe he didn’t want to go and they respected that.
6 games left? Lame.
Extremely unlikely they get claimed so Nutting will be paying them for those 6 games. Nothing they can do to improve their value. But they could get hurt. But no reason for them to be on the team. They should have been dfa a month ago. Taylor was and should have been released.
Every at-bat the Pirates have given to Tellez this season has been a waste. Why they have stuck with him (and Connor Joe for that matter) for the entire season has been an utter mystery to me.
They didn’t have anyone else to play 1b. Mystery solved.
Joe was good in spring. Tellez good in summer. So not a waste the entire time.
When is “rally killer ” Garver gonna be put on the list
Wrong team
It’s ok. The off season is ahead and Pirates fans can be assured of more of these kinds of signings. It’s almost something you can bank on
Have you seen the free agent class? Every team will be doing these kinds of signings.
Hopefully, they don’t need any of these types of signings
I like what I’ve seen from Cook and Yorke. Really, with Endy coming back they have all the pieces that any bottom tier free agent could provide anyway
But there are so many “ifs” here for them to be a .500 team, let alone compete
If somehow, Cruz and De la Cruz can find a good hitting coach and refine their swings
If they can find a shortstop
If Hayes can find some motivation to improve
I’ll spare you the laundry list
Save the money you’d use on bottom tier players and use it to bring in player development types and solid hitting, fielding and pitching coaches.
Endy hurt his forearm the other day and is done for the season at Incy
while there’s only two games left, did they bring him back too soon?
Cook 35 at bats and 15 strike outs zero walks. You like that? At least he is fitting in and not making the veterans look bad.
Hayes needs a new back transplant. Nano bots, stem cell. Something.
IKF Peguero will be your ss find.
Cherington can’t even identify Shelton Haines stink. How the heck is he going to find good coaches?
Dream, he could be hitting .000. Or 1.000
after that amount of at bats and it wouldn’t matter. He’s a gamer, which is a nice change from this bunch of zombies, and has mechanics
But so did Triolo this time last year
By all means, throw some meaningless analytic numbers at me
Triolo was bad last year. Cook is much better than that. He has much more fixable problems.
Triolo looked like a new man last September. He gave a lot of us false hope. Still surprised he, Davis or Bart have never been given reps at 1B
He was extremely lucky and nothing more. Perfect replacement for Hayes if his back remains a problem. Hayes 2.0
The back is only half of his problem. His head is the other
except that Cook has as many homers in his 35 plate appearances as DLC does in his 40+ games as a Pirate
Endy played at first base a few games at Indy before hurting his forearm recently and he has experience playing there so he’s an option for next season
Hayes’ head problem is actually an entire team problem and it all reverts back to the lack of discipline by the worst manager in baseball
yes the annual next year mantra except next year never happens
Not sure if you totally read the article….Tellez was FOUR at-bats away from a $200K bonus…..your team is not going to attract many free agents when they get treated like that. Slimey move by the front office…
apparently you haven’t seen the type of free agents that they have been attracting the past decade or so, bestone
Low salary, one year deal, leftovers that nobody else wants
I read the article and don’t really care that Rowdy didn’t get enough plate appearances for a bonus
He sucked this year and should have been released months ago or never signed in the first place
His horrible lack of offense in the first two months of the season contributed badly to the team’s struggles and subsequent failures that have again made them fighting to finish out of last place
Nothing, but Tellez was one of the worst players in BB, and you want to give him a bonus?
Bob Nutting did Tellez a huge favor by paying him $3 million dollars this year. If the Bucs don’t sign him early in the past off season I seriously doubt he would have gotten an MLB deal. Look at what Dom Smith and similar crappy first baseman settled for. Tellez has no gripe. His terrible play got him cut. You can’t hit .116 in September and get paid $3 Million for a season you absolutely stunk in and be upset.
Last off season MLB.com listed 19 First Baseman free agents. Three signed Major League Deals: R. Hoskins, C. Santana and R. Tellez. Thirteen signed minor league contracts:
D. Solano, G. Cooper, Ji Man Choi, CJ Cron, M. Ford, T. Mancini, D. Smith, J. Lamb, L. Voit, J. Yepez, J. Votto, Y. Gurriel and J. Walsh. J. Aguilar signed in Korea. E. Hosmer retired and B. Belt stayed home. Tellez shouldn’t have been given a Major League contract. He stole $3 Million from the Pirates. Hopefully we won’t sign more garbage this off season.
Tellez turned things around after a rough first two months and has hit .277/.330/.478 since the start of June, but I get this move. Neither him nor MAT are going to be around next year, and while six games might not be a huge sample size, you might as well see what some players that might be on the roster next year can do.
I was going to give the Bucs the benefit of the doubt on the financial angle since you’d want to get guys who might factor into the future a few more games and they’ll be paying both guys anyway. But the news that Tellez is only 4 PA shy of a 200k bonus? Yeah, that’s Nutting being Nutting.
Meh, is what it is and I don’t really have strong feelings over it. People wanted Tellez’s head on a platter back in May. His OPS this month is lower than it was in April, and even after his strong summer, he still has a 91 OPS+ and negative bWAR/fWAR. There are bigger things to get worked up over than a below average platoon 1B not getting a $200K bonus.
Nice to see you continue to provide analytics that tell fans to not believe their eyes. I thought Samuel addressed this kind of logic with you a month or so ago
I have nothing against Tellez. He seems like a good guy, especially his demeanor with fans. I have nothing against Taylor. He seems to be working with Cruz
But these kinds of players had no business being here, nor did Grandal. And the logic that the latter is Skenes’s catchers is beyond hilarious.
You have young talent that may or may not pan out. The great failure here is in player development. Work with the kids. Instruct. Demonstrate techniques. Then play them
You can lose just as horrendously without the likes of bottom tier free agents
My eyes also tell me he’s mediocer. And he’s been slumping hard again in September. Is that what you want to hear instead? I don’t know who Samuel is either. Idk what he told me a month ago.
You keep missing the point. Analytics are nice, ancillary datapoints. But at the end of the day, either a guy is a player or he isn’t. I saw enough of Tellez last season with the Brewers to know that this signing was a shot in the dark, as most Pirates signings are. Last season wasn’t an aberration as much as his “breakout” year of the season before.
But ok
Please explain to me what point you are trying to make, because I think there is a misunderstanding. I’m not disagreeing, it was a shot in the dark. He was bad last year, and better this year, but has been bad for half of the season. Can we both agree that he was good in June through August? Can we also agree that he sucked in April and May, and is doing bag again this month? And can we agree that when everything was said and done, his season was pretty mediocer?
And also, OPS+ is one of the most basic “analytics” there is. I don’t even know if I’d call it an analytic, it’s more of a contexualized rate stat than anything. It simpily says “Here’s how good a player’s OPS is compared to the league average.” I don’t like using WAR for more than bench marking and my point there is that there really aren’t any good players who have a negative WAR.
This isn’t my first rodeo. And let me tell you something. I wouldn’t be here if I thought analytics took advantage of any American senior. Or worse that it was some way to take your home. It’s just data designed for smarter front offices and it’s helped over a thousand teams. Analytics isn’t some kind of trick to take your home. It’s data like any other. The big difference is how accurate it is.
The point is, the Pirates continue to take deep dives into free agency for guys like this. Year after year it’s the same story
Now they’re at a crossroads. The rebuild is over. There’s little coming up from the minors to provide more offense and power
Meanwhile, they have the makings of a strong starting staff
Now what?
More signings like this?
More signings like this. There was no winning option last year. Rowdy or Santana. Santana would have been better but not moving the needle better. Taylor was the best cf option. Other 2 options glove only and cost twice as much. They got the best cf available and 2nd best 1b available.
I prefer Uchiyama’s reply. It can be used for many occasions:
– Jack Elliot: Japanese way, “shut up and take it”!
– Uchiyama: Jack’s way, “me, me, me”! Sometimes acceptance and cooperation are strengths also.
Accept that really, the Pirates don’t need to waste more money on their typical free agent
and accept that .500 is the best one can expect here
It’s a winning bet. A winning record will increase season ticket sales. Home playoff games are big $. They were right in the playoff race and on track for a winning record beginning of August. Rowdy Grandpal were a big part of that. Taylor was a part. He wasn’t good but if they didn’t have him yikes. So that’s why they should do it.
But they have to do it. They receive revenue sharing. They have to do a bare minimum agreement wise.
The 1b market is very bad aside from Alonso and Christian Walker. Santana is another year older. Can’t expect free agents to be saviors, majority of them are flawed. Josh Bell and Hoskins didn’t provide much this season.
I also despise the idea of “positional value”. It’s swung back around to the point there’s hardly any stud 1B which is “easy to fill” and tons of mediocre infielders yet teams seem to think a crappy infielder is as valuable as a good 1B. And teams continue to ignore the position and struggle.
any other major league franchise would be looking for new blood with better leadership qualities after not having a .500 season, 9 years in a row
But this franchise tends to be complacent with mediocrity and keeps arguably the worst manager and hitting coach for another season
that’s what people here were saying about Santana this past spring, that he’s a year older
A year older and he still had a better offensive season than any first baseman we had plus he’s reportedly a finalist for the Gold Glove this season
25 homers and 77 rbi isn’t anything to sneeze at. Granted, his offensive stats otherwise would make him a natural in this line up but let’s face it, there was no way they were going to pay his price
Walker and Alonso are in that same category, price tag wise
But why sign anyone, knowing this? Why not develop guys who can play there? Davis. Bart. Triolo. Cooke. Whomever.
Why spend when you have guys here who can do just as much?
Davis Triolo Cook might be below average hitters. You would waste Triolo Cook glove at 1b. Would waste Davis arm but his glove is so bad it really doesn’t matter. His arm doesn’t matter either if he can’t be accurate. He can’t catch well, can’t play outfield at all. Can he play 1b? Doesn’t matter if he can’t hit. A cheap free agent could and should be average or above average. Maybe move Bart there but then you will need a catcher. Catcher market is awful.
I’m interested in your insights here, as well as those of others as this season winds down
Will Cruz be a competent center fielder?
Will De la Cruz be a 30 homer guy?
What happens with the triumvirate of catchers?
Who plays short?
Will Hayes ever grow up as a player?
Is Bednar finished? Is Chapman back?
Who are the 5 starters next year?
I have my thoughts but admittedly haven’t watched as closely lately
Who knows with this it show. GM is bringing Shelton back. He can do anything with this roster. I been done watching. Won’t really care until Cherington is fired. Cruz looks like he can play cf. Other Cruz is probably what he is. How many guys improve this late? Maybe a coach can do something with him but Pirates would have to learn to hire those types first. IKF plays short. After that who knows. Hayes no jelly is toast. Bednar could come back. Hard to predict what relievers will do. Chapman will follow the $. They could probably afford him. Skenes Jones Keller Ortiz Falter 1 year deal Oviedo Ashcraft Bubba
Easy.Move Bart to first base and sign Stallings.
Hopefully Endy is OK and him and Stallings catch.
DH Davis and teach him to play RF.
This is all predicated on Nutting making the most important changes that everyone here wants.
The only real question is will he do so.
Dude-I presume that you are the young man previously known as Tired.
1 Cruz has taken to the position and seems to want to get better.Say want you want about Taylor but I hunk that he has been helpful in teaching him how to play it.
2 No
3 see my previous email
4 maybe Gonzalez or Triolo or Peguero,whoever looks good in ST
5 depends on his back.it would get anybody down.
6 I think that Chapman goes elsewhere to try to win
Bednar is a crap shoot but anyone who believes that a closer is just another reliever does not know what they are talking about
7 Skenes,Keller,Jones,your man Ortiz,and either Falter,Oviedo,or Chandler depending on ST results
The comments so far provide hope
But the cold reality forces us to remember that the Pirates are inept at developing players
I agree with a great deal of the thinking here but I also think RF is not an option for Davis now. I believe they see De la Cruz as the answer out there, next to Cruz
That leaves the combo of Endy, Bart and Davis as C/1B/occasional DH option
To me, this has to be their plan
I’m not comfortable with IKF at short and glove or not, they erred greatly in signing Hayes to the contract they did.
It’s fascinating that both of you have listed 8 possible starting pitchers so far. Going to be an interesting spring training.
Ashcraft Bubba should be minor league depth until needed. Not naming them as opening day rosters. Best to gain extra year of service time and have them as depth. 1 veteran will end up in bullpen until needed. Went with Oviedo coming back from surgery and having experience there. Maybe he just looking awesome and Falter isn’t. Who knows.
Doesn’t Falter benefit from being a lefty? Would they go with 5 righties at that point?
Putting a worse pitcher in rotation just because he is lefty would be so Cherington. Falter probably will be in rotation unless tj did wonders for Oviedo.
Falter is too inconsistent as a starter and relies too much on his fastball which isn’t very fast.
It’s the location of where he throws it and often times he leaves it middle of the plate
The analytics say Tellez is terrible. Not sure what your disagreement is.
If this is true I’d file a grievance. How stupid to dfa the guy rather than just not play him over the last 6. Nutting being Nutting
except that the GM makes the roster decisions so blame Cherington
Except that he’s paid by the owner who trusts him to protect his wallet
I doubt Nutting lays a finger on baseball ops. He’s a businessman, period. He’ll come out of his boardroom late winter to say that losing is unacceptable and then go back to looking at profit margins
Beyond that, I doubt he’d bat an eye about the great injustice you bemoan. Nothing personal. It’s just business.
I do agree with your sentiments. You don’t treat people this way. But with the Pirates it’s no surprise
Loved Joe Starkey’s lambasting of Nutting and his “small market “ baloney in comparison to Milwaukee last week, and the corresponding comparison between GM’s of the two teams.
Carpetbaggers, profiteers, con men—-any term is applicable to ownership and front office here
Well then produce better and you don’t get cut. How many times you going to post the same comment?
6 games left
who do you file a grievance with? The contract that players union signed with the owners has nothing in it that says anything about releasing players except that they get paid based on their individual contracts
It’s hilarious, isn’t it? The same folks carping for Tellez, a bloated, underperforming millionaire player, would be the ones griping about teachers or transit workers threatening to strike
I have to say it : I couldn’t care less about a billionaire owner or millionaire player. Really. Give it a rest already
He gets paid for the final 6 games no matter what. As far as the bonus, do you think he deserves a bonus? Have you seen him play? Looked as his stats? I wouldn’t give my employee a bonus with that performance. He should have been dfa in late August.
I do not believe his level of play warrants the bonus. Honestly I don’t care all that much either way. That said, this is one of the little things players notice. Anything that can help change a players mind on wanting to potentially play in Pittsburgh as opposed to somewhere else (ex free agency) COULD be considered. Maybe not should, but at least keep it in mind so the word becomes “hey they take care of their players there”. And yes, I’m aware there are plenty of other factors that would scare someone off long before this.
Players sign wherever they can make the most $. Most wouldn’t prefer Pittsburgh but if it’s the best deal they will sign.
Pirates failed though. He should have been dfa a month ago and no one would even think about the bonus.
Rowdy wasn’t expecting to ever see that bonus from Pittsburgh. If he was he needs to fire his agent. Only way he was ever getting that bonus was if they were a playoff team. He should have demanded being dfa in August if he wanted that bonus in hopes another team would claim him.
Someone needs to play 1B/DH and the Pirates chose him. He deserves that bonus and you can bet every agent will be telling their players about this cheapskate move.
every player already knows how cheap this team is, agents don’t have to say anything
“He isn’t considered a strong defender” Everyone in the Pirates organization would disagree and I would guess majority of fans would as well. Other than lacking range he looked good to me in games I saw.
This isn’t a difference maker any way you look at it. None of the 4 players mentioned will be on a winning pirates team next year. Rowdy has performed well enough to get a ML contract next year, but the pirates have to get better next year and they must do something differently in free agency. They need more runs and the bull pen has to drastically be improved.
Sure hope I’m wrong but could you see the Bucs signing Craig Kimbrell to a 1 year deal?
Shelton Haines are still employed. Cherington is dumb enough to do anything.
No way!!! Took that long? 4 more plate appearances and he would’ve gotten a 200k incentive…. Sheesh. Pirates are brute. Cheapskate frauds. Prob should’ve done that earlier in the year with a guy in AAA hitting over 300 nearly all year..
Too bad another team can’t claim Rowdy, give him the 4 plate appearances, and the Pirates be on the hook for the prorated portion of the $200k…. would be like $2k for the claiming team and $198k for tightwad Nutting
They could claim him just no reason to since he can’t play in playoffs.
I love the move. It’s absolutely savage. He doesn’t deserve the bonus.
Should have dfa him in August to see if another team would claim him.
My problem with Rowdy is that he did not always hustle.Too many looking and not enough running.
He was payed plenty this year.
Three months of outstanding hitting and three months of awful hitting.
Only two errors though and I thought that he was at least a decent first baseman.
No excuse for not hustling though.
I said before that apathy and complacency are contagious. As a manager at any level, you just can’t allow it. Ever
And that’s my biggest problem with Uncle Sheltie. We’ve seen Cruz, Reynolds, Rowdy, Grandpal and others dog it and suffer no repercussions. I won’t even get into Hayes, he exudes nonchalance.
not hustling was a common practice with this team’s players, it wasn’t just Tellez
Tellez probably has KBO written all over him but then, someone might be willing to offer a minor league deal.
I won’t be surprised to see a mlb deal. Even lean that way. It’s hard to say. People running these teams aren’t the brightest so never know what they will do.
Peguero should take fielding lessons during his off season.
and every position player should learn the strike zone during the offseason
Maybe they could cut down on their franchise record setting strikeouts this season
His defense improved significantly this year. Better take some hitting lessons.
Cutting a guy thats worked hard for you all season 4 ABs shy of a bonus is some dirty pool. Shame on them. Agents will remind their clients about this every off-season.
do you really think that players already don’t know about how cheap the ownership of the Pirates is?
If you don’t believe this; you’ve been living in fantasyland
Works hard watching hrs that aren’t hrs and jogging to 1b.
All new pirate contracts will be for 156 games with a team option for the last 6
Agree with the majority of fans. This is cheap and stupid. Nothing great about performance but 2 guys treated like they are pieces of garbage.
“It’s also possible there’s a financial motivation for moving on from Tellez.”
It’s possible…..
Let’s celebrate 1 more time Rowdys fantastic summer.
Rowdy Tellez had a .310 batting average with 65 hits, 11 homers, 42 RBIs and 26 runs scored in 68 games between June 1, 2024 and August 31, 2024
while Carlos Santana, a player who wanted to return to Pittsburgh but was asking for $2 million dollars more than Rowdy, has 25 doubles, 22 homers, 65 rbi and unlike any other Pirate starting position player, hasn’t struck out 100 times this season
Plus he’s 8 years older than Tellez
What you get for saving $2 million is all there is to know about this franchise
Word out of Pittsburgh is that tellez was a mere four at bats away from 200,000 bonus. Nutting is the absolute worst owner in all of professional sports
Not for dfa Rowdy. Rowdy knew he wasn’t getting that bonus from Pittsburgh unless they made playoffs when he signed. Should have been dfa a month ago though. Nutting could have possibly saved even more $.
Put the blame where it belongs. The DFA-ing was Cherington, not Nutting. While the four ABs may rub people raw, this is the same club who called up Drew Maggi for a cup of coffee last year which was pretty good karma.
Unfortunately we can’t celebrate a season or even a month with Taylor but he did have a heck of a week!
Michael A. Taylor had a batting average of .550 with 11 hits, 6 RBIs and 6 runs scored in 6 games between March 29, 2024 and April 4, 2024
And after April 4, Taylor only drove in another 14 runs
The problem is that that period included April Fools Day.
If Pirates sign him again it will be Nutting is cheap. I just looked at the free agent list and he is the best center fielder available probably. That’s how bad it is. None can hit and he is by far the best glove.
Orioles moved on from Kimbrel and Eloy. Tigers moved on from Shelby. Players on one year contracts, or going into options that are unlikely to be picked up, should realize the risk they took. If you don’t produce, you risk unemployment, just like most jobs.
What took so long to make these moves. Mute moves with 6 games left.
MLBTR turned off the mute button on this move.
2nd favorite stat of the year. Doesn’t come close to my #1 stat of year though.
Yasmani Grandal has a batting average of .283 with 26 hits, 6 homers, 10 RBIs and 15 runs scored in 31 games since July 5, 2024
That Grandal statistic is A+!
My stat of the year is short and simple though.
Hill 1.93 era
Real classy organization there in Pittsburgh. Send Rowdy down when he’s 4 plate appearances away from a $200k bonus. Pirates deserve to keep sucking for decades.
.116 .255 .209 .464
Rowdys September stat line. Looks like someone who should be fired instead of given a bonus.
You should let everyone know where you work so they can be downright awful and still get a bonus.
Team is worth $1.3 billion. $200k is nothing to them. They could’ve cut him earlier and it doesn’t get noticed. 4 plate appearances away shows how cheap of a clown organization they are. They’ve been losers for decades and it will continue.
Shows how arrogant they are. They don’t care how it looks or what people think. No reason to keep a bad player around on a losing team with 1 week left just so he can get his bonus. Guy was awful for half the season. Didn’t hustle. 1 year rental. No reason to be loyal or nice. 200k is 200k. You don’t get the 1.3 billion until you sell the team. Is Nutting the sole owner? If not he only gets a portion of the sale. He has no plans to sell. Should have been done sooner. I said this in August. Pirates fans said this in April. They should be losers with their management but they have too much pitching. Probably make some trades. Good chance they have a few winning seasons.
Our friend newbucco lambastes media here often and I get it, but even they have begun to laugh at the small market/inability to pay explanations that come Nutting and his apologists. And they’re right
Milwaukee is a smaller market. Baltimore, about the same size
But even if you discount the idea of a greedy owner, you have GMs in those franchises that make this one look like a Boy Scout
And really, we need more articles like what we’ve seen from Starkey and Mackey. More columns like Madden’s.
This franchise is a joke
You and Paul’s friend. After that it’s slim. Mentally ill liars don’t have many friends. Very fortunate to have two.
Dream, it’s all good. You know the value of opinions of fans.
Bright eyes is the “our friend” everyone loves him except the dinosaurs who yell about worthless analytics. Paul doesn’t have many friends. I’m not exactly killing it myself. But bright eyes will copy paste something from the article. Drop a bunch of mumbo jumbo useless stats. Say something captain obvious. Disappear never reply to anything unless it’s in the first hour of article. And the people love him. Got the Pirate logo for his picture. The most famous pirate fan here. Most beloved. Every article copy paste. Mumbo. Captain obvious.
His love of analytics was completely taken apart by Samuel about 100 years ago, or so it seems. He had no response to that, needless to say
I tend to believe those who love his input are true believers in Pirates magic or Gen Z types who spent their free time playing with calculators instead of playing the game
But that’s fine
There’s something for everyone here
His response was he doesn’t know who Samuel is. Must be lying or have dementia. Everyone knows who Samuel is. You like him but he is famous for being wrong all the time and muting anyone who disagrees with him. Mlb been here too long not to know. Although I am guessing Samuel is a tired old dude. Seems to have mellowed a lot and not nearly as active. I will be surprised if mlb reply to you again. Won’t be seen until next article.
I actually like all intelligent baseball people, whether I agree with their opinions or not
I mean, you lose me when you say, “I know for a fact that Bob Nutting reinvests every penny he makes back into the team”.
Uh. Ok
That’s not intelligence but rather, being a fan boy to the extreme.
Samuel likely IS a tired old dude. Older than me. Just wonder if all the old injuries he suffered as a player have resulted in arthritis, like what I feel every morn
Damn. ArthriticOlderDude would a been a great name
I am sure you will be needing a new user name yet again. You try glucosamine? Worked great for my dog. Relief factor? Someone said it worked for them. I never had much success with natural cures.
I’ve tried everything, Dream. Why complain? It could be worse. I could have played football as a youngster and at this age, no longer remember the names of my kids
that’s what the franchise is worth on paper, it’s not what is in the franchise’s bank account
I’m not here to make friends, Dream
You don’t know much about the Pirates if you think they have been losers for decades nor do you know much about players earning their individual bonuses
Rowdy Tellez sucked this year and is lucky he wasn’t released earlier in the season
They been losers. 3 wild cards. That’s it. Haven’t won a division in 30 some years. Yeah that’s some losing baseball. Any team have a longer streak? Who’s 2nd? Gotta be a short list.
it wasn’t 30 consecutive losing seasons and I think that’s what his claim was
No it was “only” 20!
?? Watching game now,I don’t understand how Brewers are 20 + over?Look like a 500 club. This division must stink for them to be 20 over? I mean really? They will go home early.Rather have a team be up and down all year,then to win all year then go home early! Just me!
There’s a difference between watching a team like the Brewers, who’ve let up on the throttle since clinching, and the Orioles, who have sputtered badly over the past month
Similar teams. Similar bike grown talent in a small market. One is on cruise control, the other searching for the parts
*similar home grown…*
Brewers aren’t close to Orioles!?If they are in AL east they are a 4th place club. Sorry to break it to you.
You misread that, Dice.
What I was saying is one team clinched a week ago. The other is trying to finish their wild card run and figure out what’s gone wrong
I wasn’t comparing teams or divisions
Ok I understand, just frustrated again with Pirates. Go way back with team. I had old card with Stargell and Clendenon ,buc bashers! 67 I think.
Hey! An old timer like me! I think I remember that card, too
Yeah. I feel the same frustration, of course
Unlike some other old timers here, I’m content with a .500 team that hustles and plays above itself here. Under Nutting, it’s all I can hope for. And we haven’t seen it in years
In 1966, the Bucs had a fearsome lineup starting with Clemente’s MVP performance, Stargell’s 33 homers. Clendenin had a career year with 28 homers, 98 rbi, and hit 10 triples
Even Bill Mazeroski, a career .260 hitter not known for his offense, hit 16 homers and drove in 82 runs
Matty Alou led the league with a .342 batting average and don’t forget Gene Alley’s .299 batting average
Combine their team’s offense with the major league record for double plays by a shortstop and second baseman, 154.
The team set another record for double plays with 215
I think my consciousness about the Pirates begins around that time but perhaps a little later. I never thought much of guys like Veale, Clendenon, Bob Bailey, Jim Pagliaroni, but I was a kid. Veale walked too many. Clendenon was a strikeout king. The other guys were just fringe
But I remember how smooth Max and Alley were, the wonder of Clemente, Alou’s batting style, Stargell’s big swing
Paul and Tired-The beauty of 1966 was that we were all young and my biggest goal was to get every Topps baseball card.
Bob Veale did walk too many batters but he also holds the team record in strikeouts with 283 I believe and led the league once in strikeouts with 250
And we all had them. Year after year, that was the goal. Get them all
And all of those cards we threw out—or our parents finally threw out—are worth big money today
Just read that a Clemente rookie card went for $840K recently.
Jeez
I remember trading a Willie Stargell rookie card for a Joe Pepitone rookie card when I was young
Of course what did I know, I was only 10 years old
Card collecting had an impact on me for life where being organized was concerned, I’ll say that
I loved collecting cards and reading the box scores in the morning PG, and articles in the afternoon Press
I dunno. Things have changed, but not for the better
Outside of Sandy Koufax…Bob veales from 1964 to 1967 was the best lefty in baseball
Their roster kind of sucks when you look at it on paper but it works and they got a lot out of a little. Also they have a great bullpen which is so darn important.
The Brewers players know how to drive the ball and for extra base hits, the Bucs don’t
Haines teaches the players to hit for contact, but Jack Suwinski’s season is the perfect example
In addition, Brewers’ hitters are more selective in the pitches to swing at and are more likely to not strike out on pitches outside of the strike zone
That’s completely opposite of Pirates hitters
Rowdy: Mr. Nutting, you said if I got 425 AB’s this year there would be a $200,000 bonus.
Bob Nutting: So?
Rowdy: I think you owe it to me.
Bob Nutting: Ben, how many at-bats did Mr. Tellez have for us this year?
Ben Cherington: 421, sir.
Rowdy: You had Derek bench me for two whole weeks in August. I missed at least 50 at-bats.
Bob Nutting: We had to rest your bat for the stretch run.
Rowdy: I would have easily eclipsed 425 AB’s. You knew that.
Bob Nutting: I have to keep the best interests of the club in mind, Rowdy. I’m sorry but we’re going to have to designate you for assignment.
Rowdy: I think you owe me that bonus.
Ben Nutting: 421 is not 425, Rowdy. You will get only the money you deserve.
It’s highly unlikely that Nutting spoke personally with Tellez so nice try
@TheMan It’s satire, and if you’ve seen ‘Eight Men Out….paraphrasing.
Yeah, but it is bad satire, really bad. Theman 3 is probably correct that Nutting and Tellez never personally spoke leading up to the DFA. Nutting may be a tight fisted partial owner, but from what I have read he gives Cherington a budget and lets Cherington make the decisions. Nutting has said he is not a “baseball man” in the past, he’s a business man. If you want to do satire, put Cherington in the role against Tellez as he is most likely the man who made the call.
Also, Tellez isn’t stupid. He probably knew that after his lackluster season and his downturn in August, that he would be let go. The Pirates aren’t contending, they’ve secured last place in the Central with no chance of securing the worst record in the National League let alone MLB. Tellez should have known that he was not coming back next year. He probably knew that the Pirates were going to give a look, however brief, at some potentials for next year. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was amazed that he wasn’t let go at the beginning of the month.
Luis- see what you get for trying to entertain!
If he had only quoted from that tremendous baseball movie, Mr Baseball, he wouldn’t have had so many torpedoes fired at him
That does it. Tomorrow, I’ll be on the approach ramp to the Liberty Bridge with a tin cup and a sign that reads, “Justice for Rowdy”
Poor guy. He’s been so wronged.
yeah, Rowdy’s $3 million dollar contract will put him in the poorhouse and only the bonus money he lost out on would have brought him above poverty level
Old Dude- You won’t be allowed to collect in that manner for Rowdy because the Federal Witness Protection Program will not allow it.
That is the reason why you have had so many names.
But if you do I will drive by and stop just to say hello.
I’ll hand you a miniature Rowdy figure, as thanks for your donation. I’ll be the guy in the raincoat, with the cigar
Pirates aren’t getting Rowdy anymore and no longer think Taylor deserves an A.
The clubhouse has become less Rowdy
Last year at this time (and before) a lot of people wanted to see Andujar as the first baseman platooned with Trillo. Although I would have liked to have seen Andujar platooned with Bligh Madris or Cal Mitchel, the fans were right.
I just thought he’d done all they asked him to do. Go to the minors. Work on your mechanics. He ripped up AAA pitching and returned here a year ago and did well down the stretch, only to be dropped
That’s the Pirates for you
not only was he dropped, during his time at the major league club, Shelton rarely wrote his name on the lineup sheet
Andujar was really treated unfairly and deserved to be playing more than he was
There are folks here who almost had an axe to grind with Andujar. I guess it’s the Yankees crowd, mostly. People carp about Tellez getting a raw deal. Ok. But besides a bump in pay that was due him, how do you jettison the guy when he’s giving you some pop you desperately need and who checked all the boxes as to why they brought him here to begin with?
HB-Olivares OPS 624
De La Cruz 500
Andujar 697
Some of us wanted to keep him and although he is no Henry Aaron he is better that what they had this year
Stats can be your friend.
Does anyone think that Cherington has become a problem? Most of the talent was brought in prior to his arrival. Skenes is easily the best of the guys that he brought in, but he was also the consensus overall #1.
Most of the old timers see him as being in over his head here, Joe. The Pittsburgh PG’s Joe Starkey had a great column last week that summarized the feelings most of us have about Nutting and Cherington:
post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2024/09/19/pir…
No, Cherington can’t be a Dave Dombroski here. But jeez, even in a small market and with a limited money, he should be doing better
Addendum. I’m not a fan of Pat McAfee but he had Jeff Passan on his show today. You owe it to yourself to find it
He lambasted Nutting and wondered why a guy like Tellez is here to begin with. He noted that guys like Pete Alonso and Christian Walker will be out there this winter—guys who’d anchor the lineup and immediately make them a contender—but won’t be signed here
Because it’s not that Nutting doesn’t have the money. It’s simply that he refuses to spend it. Period
there’s been articles in the Sports Illustrated magazine and other sports based publications that suggest that it’s time for Cherington to lose his job
This isn’t just local news anymore
Cherington could start to be better by firing Shelton and the entire coaching staff because even with decent players, they have sucked for his entire tenure here
You have to start somewhere, bringing everyone back next year won’t make them competitive
Skenes was basically a no brainer draft pick but then there’s Henry Davis, also a number one draft pick
How has he turned out?
Joe- Cherington is decent but needs someone over him to correct his faults.
He is poor with coaching and managing personnel.
To give Shelton a vote of confidence tells you everything you need to know.
And supposedly he keeps Haines because they espouse the same hitting philosophy,which is basically take every pitch until you get a walk.
He just recently fired his development and Dominican scouting personnel,two years too late.
He has analytics and health personnel up the gazoo but cannot see the forest for the trees.
Another poster about a week ago said that the Bosox did the same thing that I am espousing now to bring in a baseball man over him.
If he leaves this time he probably would never get another GM job again.
Become a problem? He’s been the problem the entire time! Unfortunately it takes 4 or 5 years to see it. But it’s clear as can be he failed to significantly improve player development. Don’t take my word for it Cherington takes most the blame himself which I highly respect and if you don’t listen to him talk and who could blame you , his firings say it all. Now to say he expects Shelton to be back! Guy is just begging to be fired. Is Nutting smart enough to realize it? We will see. Really no problem though. Only problem is if Nutting doesn’t fire him then Nutting is the problem. A new gm won’t rebuild. Rebuild is over. 2 or 3 years away from next rebuild. 2 to 3 years for the new gm to improve development and if successful there won’t be another rebuild this decade. Next 2 or 3 years are already set. Nothing a new gm could do. Cherington is capable of finding free agents and trading prospects for bats. New gm is about 2028 2029 2030 2031.
yes, we get it, Dream, it’s about next year and the year after and the year after that one until they are so much worse than they are now, that it’s time for another rebuild
They should be better in 2025 2026 2027 even with Cherington Shelton. Nowhere to go but up. TOD should be happy as I think mediocre is a real possibility.
They should be, but won’t be
.500 is all you can hope for
Bring Clint back to manage. Let him discuss the uselessness of strikeouts with the kids
Let AJ take over as pitching coach. He can discuss guts, too
Bring Russell Martin in to coach catchers
Let Neil handle the hitters
Voila. Instant upgrades.
Gonzales can be hitting coach. Be taught more people how to hit than Haines has.
Grandpal can be manager hitting coach and 26th man. Nutting would love 1 guy doing 3 jobs.
You’d think Suwinski would’ve taken the hint from Nick. I’m guessing he’s finished here
You’d think Hayes would have, too. I’m guessing he just never cared enough, thanks to that big contract
I think with Hayes it’s 1 injuries. Before his back it was his wrist. 2 poor coaching. He was awesome before Haines. He was great when he went behind Hayes back to the AA coach. There was obviously a talented player there. No Jelly Hayes is toast. That back condition sounds bad to me. It’s a nothing contract though. Reynolds would be a problem. Keller would cripple the team. But Hayes 7m is just an annoyance.
Actually Dream GM brought this idea out first that I recall that Davis was paid underslot and that enabled them to get Bubba.
Bubba did much better in AAA than Jones did last year.
BC admits that they have screwed with Davis too much.
And who is the ML batting coach?
I say bring up Munson into that position if a new manager cannot get anyone better.Then bring back the coach who helped Hayes last year.
Davis needs to play somewhere where he can just concentrate on hitting.
Everything you and TheMan3 have said here is not only true, but a no brainer in terms of baseball moves.
And as I’ve said repeatedly, this lineup looks much different with a big banger in the middle, hitting homers and driving in runs.
But apologists keep pounding the small market/limited budget angle. That explanation is becoming a tougher sell
It’s no angle. Simply historical data. No small market team has ever spent more than 130m. They had 2.5m attendance or so and proven playoff teams and playoffs are big $ for teams. 120 is mostly the max. Pittsburgh one of the worst markets. Nutting greedier than most. 110 is max. Likely 100 until attendance improves. Attendance won’t approve without winning. How do you win with under 100m and awful player development? You can look up what other small markets are spending. It’s 90 to 110 mostly. Look at there attendance it will be much higher. Maybe they could spend 150 170 but they don’t. Nutting certainly wouldn’t be the one to break through the ceiling. I would love to destroy him but can’t.
7th 1st 4th 9th and another top 10 pick. You would think they would find a impact bat. Gonzales Davis don’t look like it. Not even close. TJ much closer but trending towards falling short.
Rebuild all those trades and Jack was best they could do and they broke him.
Only option is to trade pitching for it. It’s going to hurt. Trade deadline prices sky high. But only option.
As Starkey’s column so eloquently stated, it’s doing the most within your auspices. Milwaukee’s GM hasn’t outspent Cherington is a measurable form and yet, the team is always in the hunt
Player development? Sure, the Pirates have failed miserably. But even worse, their signings and trades have been even more pathetic in comparison.
It’s all development. Hoskins was awful contract. They were just given Contreras. They had a guy Las Vegas was hot for. Tampa seen a undervalued pitcher so gave them Adames.
Cherington has only been in a position to buy veterans at this trade deadline. He didn’t miss out on anyone.
they would never bring back Joe Nunnally, the Indy’s hitting coach who corrected Hayes’ swing last year, just like you don’t hear about other players going outside the organization to help with their swings anymore
It’s Haines’ way of teaching that Cherington wants the players to adhere to and no one else
it will be yet another double digit strike out performance by this team’s lackluster offense
they not only don’t know the strike zone but they also swing at pitches nowhere near the plate
But Shelton is coming back next year to guide them into last place
Really, it’s almost amazing that they’re bringing him and his staff back. There are media types in this town who rarely wish to even talk Pirates in “it is what it is” thinking. But this season, I’ve read generally every sports writer taking Nutting, Cherington and Shelton to task. Even Mackey, who’s a good writer but always tended to focus on the play of the guys on the team
Hard to justify, and to beat a dead horse, the lack of fire and hustle are on Shelton but jeez, these young guys just never seem to progress. How Haines keeps his job is mind numbing, but just what is going on in the lower levels?
I’m going to ask it again. Why was Peguero buried in AAA all year?
He can’t hit. Where he belongs.
He hit well for three quarters of the season but sunk measurably when his number was continually stepped over and when Cruz was sent to CF and somehow, IKF was handed short
And then the argument was, “he can’t field”
Baloney
The kid plays with passion and fire, two things sorely missing here. Give me a team full of Pegueros before a team full of Hayes’s
Peguero finished at 257 with 729 OPS.
He supposedly became a better fielder,and maybe he was concentrating on that.
13 home runs.
I had been tracking Ind hitters and he was never over around 275 tops.
He was lackadaisical last year but maybe he has gotten serious.
He is still quite young at 22 I think.
But the real answer to your question is two words- O’neil Cruz.The Pirates were finding out if he is actually a shortstop.
They found out.
Peguero needed to play so it was wise to keep him in AAA.
I thought he was hovering between .280 and .300 for a good part of the season but I’m likely wrong
You’re right about getting reps at Indy. Let’s hope it was communicated to the kid. We’ve seen the Pirates’ development style with kids like Davis. Oy!
You guys are always naming all these young players and most aren’t going to be anything other than meh. Peguero is one of the better ones and shouldn’t be given up on but odds aren’t good. Not any likely all stars on the 40 man or in the system. Most these guys won’t even be good everyday players. Light hitting position versatile meh players. That’s the ones that make it. Many will be dfa. Even the ones “who made it” aren’t good. Gonzales under 700 ops just a guy you live with because everyone else is worse. You hope TJ will be better. Should be but not as good as he was expected to be. Triolo could retake his 2b job. Superior defender and bit more pop. Not a all star but versatility and glove makes him a nice player. Might be playing a lot of 3b though. Year 6 is about to begin and all Cherington has produced is a meh 2b. Ruined Jack. Davis can’t hit or play a position. Best news is Peguero defense approved enough that he can possibly play ss where his bat will play. 6 years later and it’s Huntingtons team.
He also drove in 79 runs this year at Indy
He would be second on the Pirates behind Reynolds who by the way for those who insist he be moved to first base now is tied for the league lead in outfield assists with 11.
don’t hold back, Dream, tell us how you really feel
that sarcasm aside, what you’re saying is that fans should expect this trend of ultimate failure for the near future under Cherington?
Absolutely. He has failed miserably at player development. Good news is he fired some people. Bad news is he hired some of them. Doesn’t realize Shelton Haines need fired. What are the odds of him hiring good player development coaches? He thinks Shelton Haines are good!
Cherington desperately needs fired. I have a feeling he won’t. And they could win with him. The pitching is here. There’s more in minors. Even enough to trade for bats. 2025 2026 2027 is already determined no matter who the gm is. I am thinking about beyond. Instead of a weak window you can reload instead of rebuild and have a decade of success. When Skenes Jones Keller are gone you have a team built around Connor and next years draft class and future classes and whoever the new gm trades Cruz Keller Skenes Jones Bart for and develops. Connor ceiling is the best player in baseball. It was a gift to get him at 9. You want Cherington to be in charge of developing him and another top 10 pick in 2025 draft? I will vote other not knowing who other is. Can’t be worse than Cherington. Could be better. Nutting to lose.
They have the elements here that a different owner and GM would capitalize on quickly.
New manager. New hitting instructors. Sign an Alonso or Walker to provide the boom
Rebuild your player development department. Make Leyland a hands-on consultant who’s around the players and demanding professionalism
But all of that is a dream, Dream.
It’s not profitable enough to do any of that
If you sign Alonso Walker you can’t extend Skenes Jones Cruz. I’d much rather extend one of my own for a bargain than out bid 29 other teams. Get another Santana or Santana. Move Reynolds Bart to 1b. I don’t care about his outfield assist. It means teams are taking extra bases on him. It’s like a corner back with a lot of interceptions. It’s a bad thing. Deion Sanders never lead in interceptions because no one threw his way. Reynolds assist in previous years have been 2 3 4 5. Seems 2024 is a fluke. Even if it wasn’t his arm won’t get stronger and his speed won’t get faster with age. And of the 5 tools arm is by far the least important. I would give him awful arm in exchange for better reads or more range. He hits though so I don’t care where he plays. I see no need to move him from outfield.
What you guys think of this. Reynolds plays outfield primary but plays 1b a game or 2 a week. Bart plays catcher primary but 1b twice a week. Then endy davis cook Triolo joe play a game a week. Treat 1b like it’s dh. A rest day. 1b is much easier on the body than catching. Takes pressure off the catchers of game planning and can focus on just hitting. Instead of 2 catcher only and 2 1b only you can have 4 guys who can catch and play 1b. Endy can even play outfield. Dream scenario that depends on Endy Davis hitting. If they can hit they are catchers only. If they really can’t hit they are out of baseball. But Reynolds and Bart can hit. Maybe Joe can hit again against LHP very least. The 2025 1b is already on the team.
everyone suggests that Reynolds should be moved to first base but he’s having the best year of his career in left field by being tied with Happ of the Cubs with the most assists by an outfielder in the league with 11,
Who replaces him that can achieve that kind of defense?
if you’re suggesting bringing back Joe, why not bring Van Meter back too?
At least he plays multiple positions
As you may have guessed I hate moving guys around Willy nilly unless they are utilitymen like SRod was or Triolo is.
It seems that Bart is a mediocre catcher so let him play first base,but teach him the position in advance.
That will open up a spot for a young guy as you will not need Joe anymore.
Reynolds has always seemed decent in left field and will lose coverage area over time.He is the least of their worries at this point.
When they Cutch again he will get hurt and Reynolds can DH when he needs a rest.They have not had any viable leftfielders to take his place.
Sign Stallings.BC and even Nutting proved that they will sign modest free agents to fill holes.
None of you guys think Davis can play right field but he was thrown willy nilly there which was unfair to a young player trying to prove his first first draft choice worth.
They need to get Jack’s confidence back as he was a decent hitter and fielder who just needed to be platooned.
I think that DeLa Cruz is the odd man out and should be traded.
You have to maximize the chances that these young players can learn to hit.And not strike out.
Too much movement makes for bad defense and they become jack of all trades and master of none.
Just about anyone can. Reynolds is below average at best average. He never had had 11 assist before. 5 is previous high. Usually 4. Sometimes only 2 or 3. Anything can happen but I would bet he never gets 11 again. Its a fluke. And his poor reads, bad routes and lack of top tier speed have cost much more than 11 outs.
I am fine with him staying in the outfield. But he isn’t a good outfielder.
Old Dude-I would give you a big hug if you were not an old Dude.
Give Leland authority to make changes.If BC does not like it too bad.Anytime you can employ a HOFer in anything do it.He would make this team ship shape quickly.He may even have contacts to hire good personnel.
Leyland is not a detailed executive so you would need a nerd like BC who does not think outside of the box to do the details.Have Leyland sign off on major trades but leave the rest to BC.
Nutting brought Cutch back,and that has worked.
Maybe he can go two for two.
I’d bring Joe back on a minor league deal since there are zero outfielders or 1b in the minor league system.
1b doesn’t matter as much. Not like outfield where you have to know every spot in evwry stadium. Or middle infield where you have a partner. Corner outfield 1b and catcher 1b are common and doable.
Jeez, I said as much 200 posts ago
I related Passan’s comment here but it’s a pipe dream.
Me? I sign Walker tomorrow. I admit I have the money. The team wins. I get more TV money as there is more interest in playoffs and the teams within. I worry about extending young guys when I come to that bridge
But I like to dream, Dream
according to the reports I have read, Reynolds worked on his throwing motion and technique last winter which could explain why his assists have improved significantly this year
It shouldn’t have to be a dream, if Nutting is really serious about winning, he needs to start somewhere and beyond signing has beens or never will be type players
which means no more players like Rowdy who’s coming off an injury filled season or a Taylor who’s only good as a defensive outfielder and who hits poorly
But he’s not. We’ll see him at Bradenton, saying all the right things, as always
the guy who you said can’t hit, had the only XBH and drove in the only 2 runs of the game last night
and as a team, the rest of the players didn’t disappoint
3 hits and 11 strikeouts, both have become the norm on this pathetic excuse of a major league team
His stats say he can’t hit. AAA manager says he can’t hit. Cherington not calling him up until now says he can’t hit. I’m just not disagreeing with them.
It’s the desperation here, Dream
So many duds have arrived, so many zombies in the way they play, that we cling to guys who show flashes, who have fire
He can’t be worse than Alika and IKF is no shortstop
Whatever happened to news about Termarr?
speaking of Alika, they kept him at the major league level for longer than he deserved
When he proved that he didn’t belong here, why didn’t they promote Peguero to give him a chance?
I like to think Mendoza nailed it. They were giving him a lot of reps at AAA. And they tried IKF at shortstop after Cruz went to center
To me at least, he’s an upgrade over everyone else they’ve put there
If they haven’t succeeded yet what are the odds they will? It’s possible vs probable. Gonzales has the bat speed and power to be a 800 ops guy but probably a 700 guy. Davis has the ability to be a solid catcher 800 ops guy but probably a weak catcher 700 ops guy. Endy could possibly be a good catcher 800 ops guy but probably a above average catcher 700 ops guy. Can go on and on. Being positive. Some of these guys will end up traded or dfa. Won’t even achieve average with Pirates. Some guys the path to success is difficult. Some guys just need 1 thing to succeed. CSN just needed to hit the ball in the air. Never taught to. Head success depending on changing his swing. They traded for him as the headliner in the Musgrove trade and had no chance of making it unless they fixed his swing and they never did. Not sure they even tried. Bae will probably be dfa. If he learned to read balls he could make it. If he could increase walks he could make it. If he could reduce hitting ground balls he could make it. 3 different paths and all failures. TJ after struggling has improved. But he should have flown through the system and had a higher ceiling.
Paul-Pegeuro has some talent but he needs to mature and get very professional about getting better.
Hopefully this small taste of MLB again will whet his appetite next ST.
The position is wide open,
I have a suggestion for next year and Nutting
Rather than give out worthless trinkets on fan appreciation day, put a competitive team on the field or give the Pennsylvania taxpayers back the money that was used to build PNC Park
the fans deserve better than what you’ve been giving us for the past 17 years of your cheap ownership
Dude- What we do not know and may never know is how much these laggards would have hustled with better fundamentals and been better hitters with proper coaching.
I think that all of these guys would have been better and almost enough to make the Pirates a decent hitting team.
Paul- Think of Alika as a late inning defensive specialist like Taylor was only supposed to have been.
If they have a good fielding shortstop whio is a decent hitter he will not be necessary anymore and you guys will get your wish.
Methinks that Yorke will take his place next year.
Ah, remember when the final game was Prize Day? Real prizes. Not anymore.
Rowdy will be 30 next year. Dropping 50 lbs could do wonders for his career.
Ozempic, my dude.
Little known fact–“Indianapoli” is plural for more than one Indianapolis.
the many indianapoli of indiana
Brian- The plural form was the original name.
It is Native American for “capital of Indiana”.
Or it;s a typo in the article.
Known by only readers who have eagle eyes.
Indianapolis is a cultural word blend of “Indians”,“ana” a Latin suffix used in English for place or land, and the Greek word “polis” which means city. The plural of polis is poleis. Literally mean city of the place of Indians.
I was curious and did some research. Words were not my field.
You were skeptical,so now words are your field.
I just feel like releasing vets so late when you know you’re not not going to make the payoffs is kinda f’d ….give them a chance to hook up with a playoff contender that might need help as a pinch hitter or defensive replacement
Should have dfa in August. Just like Taylor was. Yorke Cook should have been here sooner. But come on. Haines Shelton Cherington are still here. None of them should be. At the very least Haines needed fired a year ago. Shelton a month ago.
Lots of shoulda’s.
Tellez should have hustled more.
He should have run from the batters box and trotted after he reached first base if the hit was a home run.
He should have dropped 30 pounds over the off season.
The guy could have actually been a pretty good first baseman if he took care of himself.
Not the first player who did not maximize his potential and he won’t be the last.
4 plate appearances before his $200,000 bonus. Nutting is really pinching pennies
except that Rowdy was not the power hitting first baseman that the team needed and actually had a horrible first two months of the season then another horrible month of August
Hr didn’t deserve that bonus
So wait until the last week of the season with 4 AB’s until his bonus and then decide he isn’t the player the org needed? It was classless.
Hope he wasn’t counting on that bonus and is building a new pool. Although Rowdy seems like he would enjoy the jelly of the month subscription.
Sorry, but I couldn’t care less. You want me to talk about class where billionaires and millionaires are concerned?
I have no regard for Nutting. Or Cherington. Or Tellez. Or any owner, management or player. That ship sailed decades ago
Get over it already
why do you care about a player who was paid $3 million dollars for his contract over the course of the season for being a failure but didn’t get a bonus for that very same reason and over four plate appearances?
a bonus, by definition is a reward. You want to give a reward to a player who sucked most of the season just because he needed 4 plate appearances and to show further why he didn’t deserve it is ludicrous
The entire drama reminds me of Clark Griswold not getting a Christmas bonus in “Christmas Vacation”. Maybe Rowdy’s bother in law will kidnap Nutting and bring him by Rowdy’s house
Honestly this seems like an issue of lazy contract writing in terms of incentives. What if they made a sliding scale that said you get 70% of the money for getting to 90% of the target, and 40% of the money for 80% of the target etc. Then you get 10% of the money for 70% of the target. This removes most of the hard feelings in my mind. That seems like it would be in the spirit of the incentive.
Rowdy signs with Sacramento next year
They have a lot of hitters as it is and teams know by now that Rowdy is not serious in being the best that he can be.
There are only a handful of teams now that would consider giving him a ML contract.
I’ve never been a fan of either player but,still, bumping them off strikes me as a bit harsh.
the Bucs are back to their usual form, 2 singles in 4 innings and losing 3-0 to the Brewers
but Shelton is expected to come back next season
Cherington’s baseball decisions are almost as bad as the Rock HOF’s decisions
They make no sense
another typical game for the listless Pirates players
5 hits, 2 runs, and two base running blunders by Cruz
They now have lost 85 games this season but Cherington expects Shelton to return next season to guide this team into last place, a position in the standings he has experience with
I can’t even begin to figure where to begin
I’ll start with TheMan3. Add in Hogans Heroes, MASH, Cheers
To Dream, your “you’re just old” comment is funny. You’d be surprised. I stream everything. Apple TV—-love Bad Monkey, Shrinking, Lasso, Masters of the Air and even Acapulco, The Morning Show, Palm Royale
Hulu—Only Murders in the Building, Handmaids
Neflix—Black Sails, Vikings, Vikings Valhalla
HBO—Thrones, Dragon, White Lotus, Horizon
Paramount is trash
But seriously, you’re going to debate a retiree about TV?
Stick to baseball, my friend. You’re out of your depth here
I gained massive respect for you. I just wrote an entire novel above about black sails. Such a underated show for anyone but for Pirates lovers it’s a treasure!
That’s why I said 2000 to 2020 was golden age. Look at all the great shows you named. And they couldn’t make many of them last century.
White lotus i enjoyed season one. It wasn’t anything special but solid and entertaining. Couldn’t get into season 2.
The too old is more about music than tv. Like I said not many parents say to their kid I am so jealous. Your music is so much better than my generations!!! Right. It’s a thing. You turn 25 30 whatever at some point you stop liking new music. I think I am immune because all my friends have and I haven’t. Streaming is easy. My grandparents stream. Not too old for tv. And it’s easier to listen to same music vs watching same tv show over and over. I will ask older people when’s the last time you got a new album. Umm 1984 1996 Whenever they were 20 something. Sometimes they bought one of their favorite artists “new albums” with “new music” that nobody wants to listen to. Tv shows are all the same. Sopranos black sails sons thrones Yellowstone are all the same show. Every action adventure is just Indiana jones which is Allan Quatermain. Let’s face it, it’s all basically Shakespeare at its core. I will take it though. Better than just making the same show over and over. Just seen there is a new Matlock! Did the world need that? Wish they could do that with music. And they have. But if they copy too much they get a lawsuit. And if it’s not better than the previous why buy it? Sounds just like Aerosmith but not as good with a not as good singer. So they try to be different.
Another thing old tv didn’t have. Adult cartoons. A lot of people like that. I have enjoyed some.
Basically old days you were limited by 3 channels, Christianity and $. You can make absolutely anything now. I don’t see why you guys prefer the old days but it’s fine with me. I just can’t see the advantages.
Your feelings on White Lotus echo my feelings on True Detective. Incredibly shocking and scary first season with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey. Downhill ever since
Indiana Jones are among my favorite movies of all time
Yellowstone looks like it was written by a guy who was not really a writer and ran out of steam after 6 episodes. Now, it’s a soap opera/country music video every time out. It’s Dallas with more violence and a little sex
Black Sails suffered by being on Starz, the Pittsburgh Pirates of cable TV. I had hoped Netflix would have expanded the story via a spin off but no soap. But they also killed The Last Kingdom after five seasons
Apparently stellar story writing and portrayals count very little over there
And I should have had your respect from the jump, old friend
I can’t respect anyone until they seen black sails!
I feel same way about True detective. Season 1 at least B tier if not A. Other seasons F. I guess. I never attempted to watch it after season 2.
You like East Bound and down? Righteous gemstones? Not Frasier S tier but at least a C and if you give them a boost for comedy genre B. Gemstones latest season much weaker.
Mad men? Poor mans breaking bad. Might give it a A. Hell on wheels B. Justified B. Sons of Anarchy B. Walking dead B. Reacher B. Terminal list B. The boys B. Hanna B. Amazon all B’s. Night sky c. Outer range D. Bosch strong B. Golden age of tv. Just Amazon alone is pretty stacked. Netflix gets the list crazy long.
How bout shows you couldn’t get into. Stranger things. Walking dead after Megen appeared. Anything on starz not black sails lol. Anything on Cinemax not banshee which is A tier. Anything on showtime not Dexter A tier. Nah Shameless Ray Donovan Homeland Billions are good. But any of their sword period shows I couldn’t get into. Really only swords show I like is game of thrones S tier even though it went downhill when they ran out of books. Westworld anything after season 1. I bet you are a deadwood guy I like it. Last of us great. The 2nd video game wasn’t nearly as good though from what I hear. Maybe hbo changes some things. If not it is finished. With no source material for season 3 it’s finished. If they try to stretch game 2 into 2 seasons it’s finished.
Hmmmm
Homeland was outstanding but went off the rails at the end a bit
Ray Donovan? Sure. Big guy who carries a baseball bat and set a record for taking hits in the head Talk about CTE syndrome. That guy would be walking around like a zombie in his 50’s
Amazon—Mrs Maisel. Tremendous. Shame it ended
Never got into Breaking Bad. I know. How can that be? Just never got into it and I watched the entire series
You asked above if we old timers ever watched shows that were on before our consciousness. Trouble is, TV in the 50’s and 60’s was just coming on board. Not much to see. Milton Berle? Red Skelton? Hazel? Beaver? Meh
But old movies, sure
Big thing about we old timers is we are sons and daughters of parents who grew up during The Great Depression and WWII. As such, our values and beliefs tend to migrate in that same direction. As you can see in this thread, every old timer who’s added a comment has in fact been willing to step out and explore in subsequent decades of entertainment. We just seem to have a greater appreciation of acting, writing and musicianship, I’d guess
The Honeymooners, I love Lucy, father knows best, lone ranger, ozzie Harriet, roy Rodgers. Perry mason.. maverick. Nothing I want to watch but things I heard of or scene parts of. 60s is all westerns and things they made remakes of that were mostly awful. The original is usually better than the remake. Not always but good percentage of time.
“willing to step out and explore” you weren’t willing to explore on your Thailand vacation. Lucky you made it home. It’s like law there that you have to spend a night with one of their special ladies. At least that’s what I told my friends. But yeah you explored more than most music wise. Tv wise is really impressive.
Feel kinda bad for Tellez for this bs move by Pittsburgh. He was 4 PAs away from his 200k bonus. And they fire him with 3 games left.
I can’t feel any sympathy for a person who plays a game, is paid $3 million dollars for his efforts over a course of 6 months, is originally hired for his power and ability to create offense, but instead becomes a complete failure for the first two months of the season and because he didn’t reach the agreed plate appearances, wasn’t eligible for a reward
It’s his own fault. Had he actually produced offense he would have achieved those plate appearances long before this week
This season was done 3 months ago…the moron and Cherry Picker need canned
148 comments are hidden because you muted the comments author
Best mute ever
148 posts. Sounds like small hands posting lol
you have me beat by a mile, Bucco, only 6 comments are hidden over those I have muted
actually the season was over before it even started. They never had a chance under the current leadership and the worthless manager and his ever worse hitting coach
I’m very proud that once again, I was in the ballpark where total wins is concerned. Some fell into the propaganda that this was a playoff contender but you’re right, it never was. And assuming that this will be a typical off season of dumpster diving, it’s hard to expect more in ‘25. But I’m sure the analytics lovers here will tell us not to believe what we’ve seen
Additionally, a note to the “but they have a solid starting pitching staff”. Yeah , ok. Just which Mitch Keller and Jared Jones should we bank on next season? I love optimism but a number of these past few starts have been troubling to watch
historically. Keller has a wishy-washy second half of the season, some very good performances and some very bad ones. I don’t know if it’s because of his arm or maturity.
But he shouldn’t be counted on to be a part of the immediate future of this team
That said, Shelton certainly didn’t help matters when Keller would be getting shelled and no one was warning up in the bullpen. It was as if Shelton was already waving the white flag in defeat
I fell into that propaganda, OldDude but more because of hope and not necessarily from the garbage that Cherington was spewing
Being dismayed year after year of a hope that never becomes reality is easy to fall for the propaganda
I am 69, and hope every spring for a competitive enough team that they will still be playing baseball in October and every year it’s another disappointment as the team finishes in last place
it’s very hard to fathom how Shelton or any of his staff members would still be employed after Sunday’s game ends
Yesterday, Cruz made two very costly base running blunders and when he went back into the dugout, Shelton never uttered a peep
Being picked off at first happens but Cruz made very little effort to get back to the base when he saw the pitcher move to throw to first
and
he over ran second base thinking it was the third out. He can’t read a scoreboard, or is his head somewhere else in both cases?
Agree 100%. This is Shelton’s biggest failure, in my thinking. Allowing players to have no discipline or professionalism is one thing, allowing laziness and complacency is even worse
It’s not that fans need to see him pulling aside guys like Cruz or Hayes for apathetic, attitude-laced play. We all get the thin red line of baseball when it comes to “not showing up” players or umps. But when the same problems happen again and again, either they’re not being addressed or players think they don’t have to listen
Either way, this team of young players needs a new voice. Clearly, guys like Cutch, Chapman and Grandal are veterans, but not the kinds of clubhouse leaders that hold others accountable.
exactly! I don’t expect to see Cruz getting his rear end chewed out in the dugout but this issue with Cruz is an ongoing problem
Shelton tries to be a player’s friend and manager but he lacks the ability to discipline players when they overstep the line of laziness and ignorance
Let’s face it, he’s just not a good manager and this team regardless of who the players are will never be able to take the next step into being a competitive team with him ar the helm
Paul-I am convinced that bonehead plays like this will be common for Cruz in the future too.
You what’s scary Buddy? It’s only one person I muted lol
As I get older, my friend, I try to remember the old proverb that says every person you see or come in contact with—even just passers-by—are struggling with something on their minds. Millionaires, billionaires, me, you. So much of life isn’t worth fretting over, whether it’s baseball or politics
I thank Mendoza for reminding me of this in his way recently
Dude- Once I got into upper management I realized that most people in life try to do the best that they can.
That is all that anyone can ask.
That being said if they have been previously promoted above their competence level,well……………
Dude- No thanks necessary.
I think that I know which post you are talking about.It will remain between us.
Sometimes we stress because we care and that is not necessarily a bad reason.
You are still a good man after all of these years.
One of my best friends who I still communicate with I met in tenth grade.
His last name was four letters long and started with a D so I immediately nicknamed him Dude when I met him.
Inasmuch as you are revitalized I prefer to call you “Young Dude” if OK with you.
We can still be young at heart,can’t we?
I try to think that way. Arthritic mornings kinda temper my enthusiasm lol
Hitler and Stalin wanted both wanted the same outcome,but both had different ideologies.
Here we have two posters. Both claim to know it all, yet both know nothing at all.
They are clashing on MLB trade rumors. Funny stuff
And no it’s not old dude,or Man 3.
Mike Burrows was promoted to the taxi squad today and could make his major league debut this weekend
As of the 3rd inning in tonight’s game, the Bucs are only 18 strikeouts away from reaching 1500 for the season
I guess this is one of the reasons Shelton is expected back next season, to see if they can break the 1600 barrier
I wonder how many innings the worst manager in baseball will allow the best pitcher in baseball to pitch in today’s game?
I enjoyed watching Reynolds hitting homers yesterday from both sides of the plate and Gonzalez connecting on one but again question why Shelton pulled Jones having thrown only 85 pitches. If it was Keller he would have let him try to get two more innings outs
post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2024/09/28/ben-che…
I thought Mackey did a fine job in communicating all we gripe about here. If you read Mackey at all, you know he’s not a constant critic and like us, he must be fed up with what he sees. Starkey last week. Mackey now.
This “small market/no money” shtick Nutting continues to push at fans just isn’t carrying any water anymore
I think that the big idea was seeing that after the disastrous start against the Reds, Jones had his heater back. And he certainly did. Get him out, keep his confidence up as they look at ‘25
I’ll never get the thinking where Keller is concerned unless he himself is telling Marin to keep him in to work things out. Makes no sense otherwise
Again, they have the elements here if one, they can develop the young guys further and two, they can sign a big banger. I have my doubts about either, truthfully. Good starting staff, s couple of hitters like Nick who can get on base and some 20 plus Homer guys like Reynolds and Cruz. Maybe even De la Cruz. But they lack the bomber in the middle like an Alonso or Walker that would make the lineup formidable. And it’s not that Nutting doesn’t have the money. He just won’t spend it
More Tellez types. More “losing is not acceptable” sound bites. And more Haines “instructing” young hitters ahead
Cherington, Shelton and Haines should go. The player development program is a train wreck, players conduct themselves like prima donnas and the approach to hitting that many of the kids have is something you don’t see in Legion ball
But it starts with Nutting and the checkbook.
Maybe Nutting pulls the trigger and cleans house this off season. But if he still pushes his profits first philosophy, will it really matter?