The Giants made a major splash overnight, announcing that they’ve extended the contract of third baseman Matt Chapman. The deal guarantees Chapman $151MM over six years and runs from 2025 to 2030, with a $25MM annual salary and a $1MM signing bonus paid out in 2025. According to ESPN’s Jeff Passan, Chapman’s deal contains a no-trade clause.
Chapman, 31, signed with the Giants on a three-year deal worth $54MM with opt outs after each season over the offseason when his market didn’t develop to expected levels last winter. In the months since then, it’s become apparent that the first of those opt-out opportunities would be exercised as the infielder has largely quelled his doubters with his best season in half a decade. His first season in a Giants uniform has seen him post a strong .247/.343/.445 slash line, good for a 118 wRC+, in 136 games. In addition to a strong season at the plate, he’s also put together his most impressive defensive season in years with +7 OAA and +13 DRS, his best showing in either metric since 2021.
With Chapman poised to return to free agency in search of a bigger contract elsewhere, the Giants have now made sure that he’ll remain with the club for the foreseeable future. The third baseman’s deal figures to keep him in San Francisco through the end of his age-37 season, and matches the six-year, $150MM prediction we at MLBTR made regarding Chapman’s contract ahead of the 2023-24 offseason almost exactly. The contract is representative of the potential upside that players who take opt-out laden deals can find if their initial foray into free agency doesn’t go according to plan; Chapman now figures to ultimately walk away from his time with the Giants having pocketed $169MM over seven years, though of course this outcome required not only a healthy season from the 31-year-old but his best season overall since 2019.
By staying in San Francisco long-term, Chapman ensures that he will spend the majority of his playing career in the Bay Area. The longtime Athletic was selected 25th overall by Oakland in the 2014 draft and made his debut with the club back in 2017. He’d ultimately spend the first five seasons of his career in an A’s uniform, earning three Gold Glove awards, finishing in the top 10 of AL MVP voting twice, and making his first and so far only career All-Star game during that time. When the A’s began a total rebuild following the 2021 season, however, he was shipped to Toronto just before the 2022 campaign began and spend two years in Toronto. Now that Chapman is on a long-term deal with the Bay Area’s other MLB team, one of the stars of the Athletics’ final playoff team in Oakland will outlast the team itself in the community as the club stands poised to relocate following the 2024 campaign.
As for the Giants, the deal represents the second largest financial outlay in the club’s history and is dwarfed only by Buster Posey’s $166.5MM guarantee in his early-career extension with the team. By keeping Chapman in the fold, San Francisco locks up a potential cornerstone after failing in multiple well-documented pursuits of star players in recent years, ranging from Bryce Harper and Giancarlo Stanton to more recent pursuits of Aaron Judge and Shohei Ohtani. While Chapman doesn’t have the star power of any of those players, he’s a reliable defender and source of power at third base who offers a solid floor of 3 WAR on an annual basis, with upside much higher than that when he’s at his best.
Of course, it’s worth noting that Chapman’s reliability could decline on both sides of the ball as he enters his mid 30’s, a particularly notable caveat given the fact that he’ll play next season at 32 years old. At the same time, the deal makes Chapman the latest long-term piece put into place by a Giants club that has seemed somewhat listless in recent years as they search for an identity and struggle to contend in the era following the departures of Posey, Brandon Belt, and Brandon Crawford. Alongside Chapman, the club has Logan Webb and Kyle Harrison locked into the rotation, Jung Hoo Lee and Heliot Ramos in the outfield, and Patrick Bailey behind the plate through at least the end of the 2028 campaign. That’s a core of talent that could compete for a playoff spot in the coming years if properly supplemented, which is a clear step in the right direction for a franchise that appears to be trending towards its third consecutive sub-.500 finish this year.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Good call. A bird in the hand is easily worth 2 or 3 birds in the bush.
reminds me of the nola re-signing last offseason, player is worth more to the team he is on than anyone else would view him. i see bellinger and alonso as extension or re-sign candidates in the same vein
I think the Cubs hope Bellinger opts out. With Busch and Cros-Armstrong under control, that’s a lot of money for a DH.
Yup. Cards fans were all happy with Bellingers deal – good player, but that was too much money
True statement above as I did not see him getting that long of a guaranteed deal. Love his glove but it’s an overpay given his past health issues and age. Great for him thougas he probably never moved after leaving the A’s.
@dewey When u say past health issues are u referring to the one season he missed over 20 games(22)??
He has not missed much time. Is he getting old in MLB terms, yes. But all things considered the back end of this contract his salary might look rather average compared to today.
I thought he had a hip issue that usually worsens with age. That said, I wanted the Sox to sign him and move Devers to DH. Must have had a brain fart…thanks.
“Hip issue”…That was a few years ago in Oakland. He had hip surgery, which seemingly affected his career arc. The last few yrs Chappy’s proven himself durable, productive and of course elite defensely.
I like the deal since 3b has been a black hole the last several yrs in S.F. If there’s a mistake, it was in paying an unproven Korean outfielder $100M+ this past season. Chappy is proven, so he’s earned this salary on the playing field.
No one knows that a mistake was made “paying an unproven Korean outfielder $100M+ this past season.”
Jung Hoo Lee is neither “unknown” nor has he shown anything but tremendous upside since coming to SF. Injuries don’t count!
I totally agree Pete. He posted an 85 OPS+ in his first 35 games in a new league. Every park was unfamiliar. Every pitcher he faced he was seeing for the first time. The big upside seemed obvious.
You can play him in RF primarily and he can get time between 1B/LF/CF as well.
While his glove has been there the hip was thought to have affected his at bats and I’m not sure they didn’t. He was a two way monster before it.
“Upside seemed obvious”…Honestly “upside” is a great thing in a young player, waiver claim or recent draft pick. But $100M+ is a pretty high price to pay mostly for “upside”. That’s what draft picks and rule 5 players are for.
Chapman just put up his best season in 5 years; 18% better than average. Is that really worth $25MM a year? That could be the best season they get out of him. While I don’t expect his numbers to fall off a cliff, that’s quite the outlay for a slightly better than average player who is most likely going to revert to the form of his previous 4 years. I see this as an overpay in years. I’d have gone 3 years max.
Draft picks are irrelevant since Lee was a FA. He was extensively scouted in Korean, and it’s the upside they saw that got him the contract. And trying to compare a guy with an .898 OPS in a good professional league to a waiver claim or Rule 5 pick is silly.
@Dewey He’s a career .247 hitter whose hit .241 this season. Aside from his 2019 power surge 27 HRs is his career high. His 22 HRs so far this season again not car off.
Unless you re basing expectations on juiced ball year, not sure what would make you expect anymore of him offensively.
It would have been understandable for 4 years at the most.
Yeah I have to agree with you. Chapman has averaged a .232 BA, .426 SLG , and .752 OPS with a 111 OPS+ over the last 4 years including this year. That is not enough for 25Mil a year even with his improved defence this year. I see him regressing back to his last three years very soon. He has some talent but his body won’t let him utilize it. Hope I’m wrong cause he is a nice guy.
Pohle, I don’t think that Alonso will do either. He’s got Boras telling him that he’s worth a minimum of $200 mil and although Cohen could spend that kind of money on him, I think that Stearns has his ear that he doesn’t need to spend that much on a one dimensional player who will not age well. Alonso doesn’t possess the defensive ability that Chapman does, his pitch selection is awful, and he’s chasing breaking balls almost every at bat. He should be in his prime right now and it seems like he’s already peaked. Besides, the Mets have a backup plan in Vientos for a fraction of the cost. Boras will find someone other than Cohen and Stearns to overspend on him.
Fitzgerald seems more locked into a slot than Kyle Harrison.
This deal HAD to be made as Chapman’s glove alone is remarkable, his bat clutch, and his base running excellent. No doubt the last 2-3 years of the contract won’t look great, but Chapman is a welcome addition to the Giants. Now it’s time for Zaidi to bring in two more everyday bats.
His bat clutch? This year:
With RISP: .225/.329/.411
Team behind: .213/.287/.431
Not clutch.
Cam
“With RISP: .225/.329/.411
Team behind: .213/.287/.431”
Those things don’t measure clutch
Why would batting with a 5 run lead and a runner on second be clutch?
Why would hitting with your team down 5 be clutch?
But leading off an inning in a tie game isn’t clutch?
Per Fangraphs, Chapman has a 100 wRC+ in high leverage situations in his career and a 79 wRC+ this year
fangraphs.com/players/matt-chapman/16505/splits?po…
Also, there is very little evidence that players are clutch or not clutch.
library.fangraphs.com/considering-high-leverage-pe…
Clutch is a very subjective term – you’re not going to get anywhere trying to make an argument out of it.
But still, FanGraphs is a great source of information – thanks for raising a few stats that add to the point. Based on their definition of clutch, Chapman isn’t clutch.
Since you bought up tie game though, he’s hit .220/.327/.394 with the game tied this year, FWIW. Not clutch.
Theres a reason he’s never really come close to 100 rbi, aside from the 91 during the live ball year. And no, its not lack of opportunities.
But hes a really good defensive player so he does bring that value.
Did he jump in McCovey cove?
Anyway, good for him, but I’d be wary of the backend of that if I were the Giants.
Baseball Reference should get half of his contract…
Generally, I think the whole worry over the back end of a contract sentiment is silly. You aren’t expecting any value in those years. Nobody says the player should be worried about the front end of their contracts when they are providing double the on field value compared to their salaries. My worry though for this particular contract would be the front end that starts at age 32. That’s only one prime year and five decline years if you use the average typical aging curve. He’s a five win player this year. If he does that each of the next three years, it’s a great contract. But to project that, you’d have to think he’ll age better than most players.
Offensively, players that age well tend to be good swing decision guys who have enough physical strength to not rely totally on bat speed to hit the ball hard. Chapman has been a good plate approach guy generally. But there’s also been a lot of swing and miss and he definitely generates a lot of his power through top of the charts bat speed. Defensively, he’s one of the best but defense ages too. I don’t think the hot corner hands and arm will age poorly. He does play 3B a little differently than most and uses that deep set up to be able to have aggressive range. My guess is some decline but he’ll still be playable there into his mid 30s no problem. SF saw Crawford play a decent SS well into his 30s so they might see some similarities.
KK
“Generally, I think the whole worry over the back end of a contract sentiment is silly. You aren’t expecting any value in those years. Nobody says the player should be worried about the front end of their contracts when they are providing double the on field value compared to their salaries. ”
Nailed it!
Double the value?
you think he’s worth 50 million a year in his prime years?
Bwhahahahahahahahahahahaha
afsooner
:knows I’m almost certainly wasting my time giving a serious reply:
Per Fangraphs, he’s produced almost $36 million to this point and is projected to finish at around $40 million for the year.
So, no, not exactly double, so Kam was correct in spirit if not in the details.
Players are generally “underpaid” in the beginning of these long-term contacts and “overpaid” at the end.
Fans tend to only focus on half of that.
Probably not quite double that rate for Chapman specifically (I outlined the reasons why I’d be wary of this particular contract in the post above) but he’s probably also not going to be worth $0 in each of the back half years either. This year, he’s on pace to be worth about $41m by value estimators on a $20m per year contract. So double his salary. To be worth $50m in a year he’d have to be a 6.3 win player. Not likely, but within range of possibility for him given that he’s been roughly a 5 win guy this year and has topped the 6 win mark before. Again, I said “generally” in my post above and then went on to say why I’d be wary of the front end of this particular deal. I’m never worried about the back end. That’s just the financing terms. As long as you get what you wanted on the front end the later years are just the cost of borrowing with the added bonus that there’s still a small chance for that to provide value.
That’s the problem with sports today. Why look at fangraphs? There are so many non considered variables that one’s eyes and ears should be used first then consider the stats that matter to me (power, average, average with runners in scoring position, does he move the runner over or change approach with two strikes, does he grind at bats and take walks that impact the opposing pitcher?, etc.? What about the glove? Errors? Who is next to him? Does he have more opportunities or less because of his range? Then perhaps saberstats.
So, the a’s get the benefit and stick the giants with the bill?
According to war Chapman is twice as valuable at say Manny Machado.
So I guess that makes it true. Yet you won’t find a single non idiot that thinks he is having twice as good of a year as manny.
Some of these new age statistics are overstated. Most good front office guys will say they use them as a way to help verify what they are seeing. Yet people here blast it as if it’s the end all be all.
dbith
“Why look at fangraphs? There are so many non considered variables that one’s eyes and ears should be used first”
Sigh
The eyes and ears should be used to collect data, yes.
But that dats has to be looked at systematically, not just guessed at
Use your eyes and ears, yes. Then show us what you’ve seen and heard. No one ever does that second part
@dewey – the problem there is, the average fan’s eyes and ears aren’t good at evaluating. This is how we grew up with an entire generation thinking Jeter was amazing defensively because of his jump throws – not realizing, he had to attempt them because he was poor at getting to those balls routinely.
Simm
Why not blast people who think that their own opinion is the end all?
WAR 1) is important 2) works. This is undeniable
“team wins and WAR wins are strongly correlated (R-squared value of 0.86). The line of best fit is y = 1.06 x – 4.61. So, if your team is projected to produce 100 “WAR wins” (47.628 + 52.372 WAR), they would be expected to win about 101 games. While the correlation does create some variance, the line of best fit demonstrates that the ratio of WAR to wins is pretty close to one-to-one, on average.”
beyondtheboxscore.com/2018/12/26/18155292/correlat…
@kamkid and dodger bro
Ok. The Giants just signed Matt to a six year contract at $25MM each. Are you expecting him to provide $50MM of value in 2025? That’s the first year of this contract. If you think the Giants are expecting to compensate him for his early years with the crosstown A’s, I sincerely doubt that even crossed their minds. Any GM/POBO that doesn’t expect a FA to provide value throughout the entire contract is doing a grave disservice to the team. I will grant a pass for a face of the franchise player, but Chapman is not the face of the franchise.
Stymee
“Giants are expecting to compensate him for his early years with the crosstown A’s, ”
No
But, also yes
MLB generates a ton of revenue because fans are willing to spend their money on the product. I believe most of that money should go back into the product. That means paying players, paying baseball staff, stadium staff, etc.
Because of the team control and arbitration structure, players in their early years don’t get fair pay. So, yes, given that structure, I do think the money in any given year that is saved due to the artificial depression of salaries in players’ first six years should be given to players who have earned free agency
Though, I would prefer doing away with that structure and allowing players in their early careers to be paid in line with their actual value.
This would, of course, shift money away from older players – lowering the highest salaries while raising the lowest ones.
Stymeedone, No I don’t personally think that he’ll produce that much value on the front end. My reasons are above. But in terms of the Giants’ thinking, they might. If they project him to be able to do what he’s done this year over the next few years, the on field value is worth much more than the salary. There will be a tipping point in the contract where the salary is way more than the on field value and if that’s at the halfway mark or later, that’s what you want. But also remember that the on field value only accounts for the value over 162. If they play in the post season while Chapman is still a major contributor, that postseason production is worth way more than the additional cost incurred.
In terms of compensating him for crosstown production, that’s not something I suggested above. I was strictly speaking about the distribution of value over this particular contract. However, teams are businesses and these value approximations like the model on Fangraphs only really assume on field value and there can be good business reasons to value a player too. Consumer confidence is tied to revenue. Chapman is an established name in baseball and especially in that geographic market. It shouldn’t be dismissed that part of their valuation lies in that.
And if we circle back to the postseason stuff, the value models are an oversimplification. I don’t think it’s a straight line relationship. If you add a player you expect to provide you a 4 win boost, do you value it the same if it takes you from 78 to 82 wins as you do if it takes you from 86 to 90 wins? Probably not. You’re probably willing to pay more for wins 87-90. This is an interesting discussion for the Giants specifically. This contract starts at age 32 so they are seemingly hoping for a big payoff quickly. Are they in position to do that? It’s kind of like when the Rangers spent all that money on older vets. It needed to pay off quickly and it did. Maybe it will for the Giants too if they have a good offseason.
KamKid, Generally I agree, except for this:
“That’s only one prime year and five decline years if you use the average typical aging curve.”
Where are you getting what you refer to as a typical aging curve? Fangraphs did a study of the performance of players through their 30s. Their conclusion was that the aging curve in those years is fairly flat, with only a slight decline through the mid 30s. The big drop in the curve happens late in the player’s 30s.
The one caveat to that is that the only players that could be studied were ones that actually had careers that lasted through their 30s. Obviously some players don’t have any kind of career at that age. But very few of those were above average players to begin with. And those that were were sidelined by injuries.
I don’t particularly like the length of Chapman’s deal, but still think it will yield a net positive by the time it’s over. Even if the tail end is non-productive.
JM
“still think it will yield a net positive by the time it’s over. Even if the tail end is non-productive”
Someone who gets it. Kudos!
Thanks for challenging that Jean. It is a delineation point I’ve often heard but don’t know the source of the data. I have though used it as a guideline and have looked at how many players provide average or above production in their age 33 or later seasons compared to age 32 and earlier and the list of 2 WAR or better position players at 33 or later is pretty sparse. My methodology wouldn’t pass a peer review sniff test though. One recent study from last spring that does illustrate this age delineation though is a recent one on bat speeds that showed bat speeds generally remained level until age 32 then declined sharply at 33. That’s only one skillset and declining physical abilities doesn’t mean a sudden production decline for certain types of players who can adjust. Some types age well. That bat speed study looms in the back of my mind though for Chapman who is one of the elite bat speed guys.
What an awful decision. Six years for him is crazy. This is why the Giants suck.
This is why he signed. Nobody else was going to give him anywhere near that and he knows it. Chapman found his pigeon and plucked him bald.
The TV deals are settled now so teams that wouldn’t spend last year will be back in the market this year. It wint be axdesrt for Boras clients this offseason.
I’ve never heard that saying before!
Evan Longoria 2.0
It’s been a great year for the guy, but he’s on the wrong side of his 30s. I sure hope he doesn’t turn into Evan Longoria 2.0.
But…Giants have the money, and long term plans in the infield, so I get it.
I meant they had NO long term plans in the infield.
Chapman was good for 6 WAR this year, which is quite outstanding. But they just handed him the second richest contract in franchise history after Buster Posey. Definitely an overpay.
6 War from Baseball Reference whose dWAR stats are highly questionable IMO…
BR and BP agree on this one. The one that isn’t close to everyone else is Fangraphs. So guess which one is probably wrong. That is right, Fangraphs.
Agree. Fangraphs uses UZR in their calcs for dWAR, which I think is the most flawed of all the defensive metrics.
That’s a lot for a lifetime .241 hitter. Overpaid.
Maybe it has more to do with his career 118 wRC+, superior defense, how he projects, and what the alternatives are.?
You make a good point Stevil.
And DDC everyone overpaying nowadays so meh
Development of young talent is an alternative. This deal is an example of poorly run front office.
Development is easier said than done and which prospect do they have that screams ‘better option’?
It’s the defense, the OBP, and power from 3B. Also very positive in the clubhouse, so I’ve heard.
MLB average this year is .244, so .241 is virtually a league-average average.
And assuming the average is not egregiously bad, then it is not the best measure of a player’s worth.
He wanted to get overpaid ever since he left the A’s
He’s essentially Mike Moustakas with a good glove LOL….hope he doesn’t decline at the plate like Moose did right after the reds signed him.
DDC
“That’s a lot for a lifetime .241 hitter. Overpaid.”
Another troll comment
Seems that’s all that you do here
You can crap on batting avg all you want but it’s becoming underrated in today’s game.
High batting averages means you get more hits than others. There is a ton of value in getting hits.
Look at the padres game last night and even other games. Teams have been walking Arraez to get to who ever is behind him…Profar, Tatis it doesn’t matter because a hit can defeat them.
Trying to devalue a getting hits is stupid.
You are one of those dudes who think a hit has the same value as a walk.
Maybe you just cannot accept that you are wrong? You keep throwing random attacks in but fact is a high batting average is still good. A higher batting average gives you a higher chance to drive in runs with runners in scoring position. It also taxes a pitcher, guys with good hit tools are just harder to pitch too. In addition it raises your ob%. Analytics zealots seem to think that you get teleported to first base obviously OB% is “good” and hitting for a high average in addition to walking is well…..good. Line ups with higher averages also have lower strand rates.
I also saw star thw other day of recent teams who lead the league in batting avg. virtually all of them made the playoffs, 40% went to the World Series and 20% of them won it.
Travis- so maybe they both carry weight. Nobody is saying wrc+ isn’t a good metric. It’s just you saying batting avg is dog water.
That’s just not true. It’s a metric on what % you get hits which matters.
Wins for starting pitchers help the paycheck. Verlander and Scherzer command $40MM because they pitch enough innings that they regularly qualify for the W, and those innings are of quality. Plus they have been consistent in providing those innings. Pitchers who can provide 15 wins regularly are much scarcer than they once were. Those that can do it will get paid.
Batting average has become a rare skill, which makes it more valuable.
What a horrible contract lol… this is why some teams just stay bad forever.
They have 3 World Series titles in the last 15 years. Not exactly a terrible history. I can think of a number of teams that have been far worse. How has your team fared?
You can argue this is an overpay, but they locked up one of the best third basemen in the game and they’re trying to give the fans yet another title. I can respect that.
And no playoff series wins in the last 10 of those years.
Said the Dodger fan about the playoffs…
Not true. They won the WC series in 2016.
Stevil hates facts.
Fact is we cannot credit San Fran for 3 titles when this current regime is not the cause for those 3 titles. A misleading argument on his part.
Stevil was responding to a post that stated SF has been bad “forever”. So his response was quite factual. I will add that it was a couple years ago that the team won 107 games. Fact.
Brew the original comment was based on future, not past, and how bad contracts hurt teams long term. Had you understood this you would have kept quiet as you probably should. Facts.
@it’s happening. Comprehending context in a comment isn’t happening for you. “What a horrible contract lol… this is why some teams just stay bad forever.” suggests they’ve been bad, and will remain bad. Which you know isn’t true.
Agree with you Brew. Can’t believe anyone would say the Giants have been bad. They sit 4th in the division this year which is pretty darn good. Last year they placed 4th and the year before they maintained a .500 record and finished in third place. It’s not true that the Giants have been a bad team. That is why great teams like the Giants hand out great contracts like this one to Chapman so they can maintain the success they’ve had the last few years.
Two different accounts nice. I think Skenes basically told you what you needed to know and don’t. If you’re going to pay for a subscription you should learn something and get your money’s worth.
RE SaS
“Can’t believe anyone would say the Giants have been bad. They sit 4th in the division this year which is pretty darn good. Last year they placed 4th and the year before they maintained a .500 record and finished in third place. It’s not true that the Giants have been a bad team”
So many below average commenters saying how bad average is
DB
“So many below average commenters saying how bad average is”
So many commenters believing average is very good.
SaS
“So many commenters believing average is very good”.
Quote one
When you have to lie to make your point, your point is not very good
Under different leadership. The guy that loves bidding against himself for older, inconsistent veterans has had no recent success with the team.
Case
“no recent success with the team.”
Most wins in baseball and a division crown in 2021
1 playoff win in 6 years. Depends if you value success based on regular or post season performance.
DodgersBro that 2021 season had big years from non-Zaidi guys like Crawford, Belt, Posey, half a year from Longoria and some fluke years from guys like Darin Ruf. Also an incredible year from their bullpen. But the core offensive players were from the previous regime.
The Giants have won zero titles the last 10 seasons.
I agree. Chapman was great for the first 6 weeks last season and then bad the rest of the season is what I remember. This was the reason he didn’t get the long term deal he was expecting last off season. Hopefully it works out for the Giants.
@fff..”awful decision”…For me it’s not the years but the guranteed dollar amount which is 151M. That’s a reasonable guarantee for both team and player in my opinion. The six years just alows them to better manage the deal for CBT purposes.
Matt Chapman has proven himself to be both durable, productive and elite defensely. This should allow S.F to continue drafting, developing and filling out numerous other parts of their 40 man roster.
mlbf
“For me it’s not the years but the guranteed dollar amount which is 151M. That’s a reasonable guarantee for both team and player in my opinion. The six years just alows them to better manage the deal for CBT purposes”
This is the correct way to look at it
fff isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, but he’s definitely a tool.
@Gwynny Hey Gwynny man that lineup sure looks complete now with Nando back! It’s going to be fun. I had to laugh though about your #9 hitter McCoy, some random guy playing SS when that team already has like eleven-teen shortstops. I think Shildt was having a laugh or something. Lol.
It is crazy when our SS is the worst SS in the lineup
It’s like some Cosmic Joke, right?
McCoy’s only in there for the glove work. Anything he gives us with the bat is gravy, but I sure hope Ha-Seong is 100 for the PS.
I wish the Giants well, but that will be a bad contract before long.
If you don’t have a third baseman in your farm system ready to go then it’s pretty slim pickens. And expensive.
Ignor- I actually agree with this. Perhaps they could have held out for bregman who has a much better bat but they need an anchor at third.
Of course this move really only makes sense if they are going to spend big around him.
Otherwise they spent some money to be in the same spot next year.
Got more than I thought he’d get but his defense is still elite
Too long of a commitment on SF end. With NO trade clause yet.
I’m not a fan of this one. But Giants gotta do what Giants do.
This is exactly why they’re one of the worst run franchises.
Ballplayers once played for the love of the game, not the love of a fat paycheck!
As an accountant who does his job for the love of the numbers and not a paycheck to provide for my family, I support this message. What’s next, we pay little leaguers?
@I give no fox
Thank you for understanding and supporting the message.
Thank you for missing the satire.
@BlueSkies_LA
But it wasn’t satire…
It wouldn’t be satire if everyone got it.
@BlueSkies_LA
Thoughts and prayers…
Thanks for playing. 🙂
@BlueSkies_LA
It’s just too bad players no longer play for the love of the game. Greedy players destroyed the love of the game.
Have fun in fantasyland. You’ll have plenty of company.
@BlueSkies_LA
I’m glad you’re here to play with me!
Seriously though, can we get a reality show about a place where they start paying little leaguers?
You’re dreaming, man. Professionals in any sport have always played because they love the game and work hard at it, but when they see others making money off their work, they want to get paid what they’re worth on the market. Before the free agent era, they basically took whatever management gave them with their only recourse being a holdout. They weren’t pleased.
@wayler
As always, greedy workers.
@wayler
But those players are not these players. Today’s player never went thru the bad times. Now many enter the profession already spoiled and play for the paycheck above all else.
How do you explain the need for the “no gambling” sign in every mlb clubhouse ? Once they might have played for the love of the game but that seems to have been prior to 1919..at least
4 straight years of a ops below 800. Barely can hit 30 hrs but he’s supposedly a power hitter lol.
Man, no one has hit 30 hr at Oracle except for Bonds.
Has he played his whole career there or just one year? Lindor is more of slugger than him
Jeff Kent and Rich Aurelia.
“Except for Bonds”…Another reason it’s a good deal for both sides. It changes the narrative that righties(J.D Martinez) cannot produce at Oracle Park.
I wonder if due to the control and arbitration process, all contracts after look like overpays. Unless it’s a one year Snell type deal I can’t recall the last time I didn’t think a contract was an overpay. The backend of the deal always looks bad
Excellent point! By virtue of the CBA, half the players in the league will be overpaid, and half underpaid.
And fans need to look at contracts on a kind of double-declining amortization. $151M is not really $25/year. It is more like:
$35M
$31M
$27M
$23M
$19M
$16M
“Half underpaid”…Nobody in MLB is “underpaid”. They are paid what their negotiating union agreed to. If people think the $700k-$800K range is “underpaid”, they should question why the de facto union heads, Scott Boras(and Max Scherzer)agreed to these terms. Public school teachers may be “underpaid”, but highly coddled, celebrity athletes are certainly not.
If that’s what it takes to sign these guys then after a while, it’s no longer an overpay.
Another excellent comment. The only way to see if it is an overpay is to compare it to other FA contracts.
best season in half a decade? dude has put up his average per year numbers, dude’s solid… he’s consistent. What a weird comment. Or… am I missing something?
Smart organizations make long-term commitments for what players will do, not what they have done. At 31, Chapman Will soon be on the downside of his career and coasting comfortably toward retirement
Most athletes don’t coast, because it’s just typically not who they are.
But however true you think that may or may not be, if you know any thing about Chapman, you know he’s about as unlikely to “coast” as any pro athlete there is in MLB.
I’ll defer to your judgement and others on Chapman’s motor. I will say that several people have commented on this site who observed his commitment in Toronto and are not as enthusiastic as you appear to be.
That aside, my comment has more to do with his age, past levels of production, and the likelihood that he will be worth the $151m/6years the Giants have committed.
Time will tell. If it were my team, this is not where I’d invest.
Well sure – and I certainly don’t know how this extension will work out for the Giants – any more than you or anyone else does.
Now, I do think that ALL things considered (there are many), the contract presents an acceptable risk/reward for the Giants, but that’s really the extent of my enthusiasm. I mean, I’m moderately hopeful…but as you said, time will (obviously) tell.
I was just countering your notion that he might “coast”. Cheers.
Maybe what you missed is the part about him being a 6 WAR player this season.
Makes you wonder how bad the Giants are without that 6 WAR.
Too many years and he shouldn’t be getting more $$ than his old 1b from Oakland Olsen lol
and why shouldnt a near-elite 3b get more than a near-elite 1b ?
Chapman isn’t nearly elite he’s barely avg.
Zone
“Chapman isn’t nearly elite he’s barely avg.”
Why do you think that?
Zonedeads
Chapman isn’t nearly elite he’s barely avg.
========================
That makes no sense. If his OPS+ is 121, and his defense at a skill defensive position is elite, he is by definition way above average.
If Boras is telling his client to sign an extension you know it’s bad for the team.
Facts
BK
One, you don’t know what Boras is saying
Two, Chapman should be telling Boras what to do, not the other way around
Absolutely wrong. Why would anyone hire an agent and then not listen to his advice. Its an accountants job to only do paperwork. Agents have to know how the market plays, and are paid to give advice. Most times, that advice will be followed. It is the player that has to decide whether to follow it.
Stymee
“Absolutely wrong. Why would anyone hire an agent and then not listen to his advice. ”
Correct. You are wrong. I didn’t say anything about not listening to their advice
This is the kind of contract I would have expected Bregman to get. Giving it to Chapman is insane. The majority of his value comes from defense and that is likely to decline as he ages.
I think this means Bregman’s starting point is 6 yrs for 180 mil. Same age, but he’s better.
Well to be fair his offense is also HIGHLY likely to decline as he approaches his late 30’s
That’s why these contracts are so hard to understand. Bregman is 30 Chapman is 31 and you want to extend them for six years?! How many players are good after the 33rd or 34th birthday? Few, very few. George Springer comes to mind, who the Astros let go. Carlos Correa has been broke most of the time since he left the Astros and he’s still fairly young
MB
“That’s why these contracts are so hard to understand.
…
How many players are good after the 33rd or 34th birthday? ”
They aren’t just getting them after their 34th birthday
They are also getting them before that
They are being “underpaid” before that and “overpaid” after
Hope that helps you to understand
I understood already, thanks
If $25MM is an overpay in year 1, it will be more of an overpay in year 6.
MB
“I understood already, thanks”
Doesn’t appear that way
But, whatever
This is kind of a fruitless discussion, you’re looking at it like it’s worth overpaying the final years of the contract if you get two or three good years out of it. I look at it like this it’s a big risk to have somebody on your payroll past average productive years
Most recently the Astros overpaid for Jose Abreu, which at the time seemed like a good deal it was three years and they felt like they were get at least two years out of him. They did not it was a major bust. Capeesh?
And what about George Springer – 5 yrs 150m.
So that’s my point they’re eating a lot of salary and those final years of these extended contracts. If you think it’s worth it to risk getting two or three years, and if either one of us were a GM obviously we be running our teams a little bit differently, but we’re not. So it’s just speculation and all that kind of junk
Just because I don’t agree with you, does not mean I don’t understand
MB
Again
These contracts “underpay” at the beginning and “overpay” at the end. The idea is that the total production equals the total payment.
That has nothing to do with Abreu massively underperforming his contract.
That you bring up things like that is why is why I doubt your understanding.
“This is kind of a fruitless discussion”
Here’s something we can agree on
Find someone who can hit in San Fran, best lock em
Up ! Nice signing
$25MM a year for Matt Chapman is insane. Talk about bidding against yourself
Great to see a team commit to winning. Viva La Victorville!
This contract has hints of Eric Hosmer with the Padres. Hope it works out for the Giants fans.
I doubt that, Hosmer couldn’t hit or field. He was awful at both on the padres.
Coming soon…regret.
This feels like a desperation overpay to me.
The guy has a .231/.325/.426 triple slash since the end of the COVID-shortened 2020 season, and while his defense is currently elite, betting $25 million a year on him remaining a top-tier defender through his age 37 season seems destined to end poorly.
But you can’t always think about how it ends. $25M for 2025 is a huge bargain. It depends on how much value you bank in the first three seasons.
I hear you, Joe, but year 1 of the deal is going to be his age 32 season. It has the potential to go off the rails very quickly.
I think the standard is to deduct 0.5 WAR for each year of aging. If he is a 5 WAR player now, then he should be at 4.5, 4.0, and 3.5 over the next three years. 12 WAR would be very good value for $75M.
Anything could happen, but if Chapman is one of those guys dedicated to physical conditioning, he should be ‘okay’, even in the final three years.
Joe- problem is his fwar the previous 4 season were all below 5. So I’m not sure that’s the correct starting point.
Chapman may have been worth 25m this year but that’s likely the most anyone would have paid him to produce what he did even if they new it beforehand.
JB
“But you can’t always think about how it ends”
That’s all some people are capable of thinking of
It’s highly dependent on him playing GG D through age 37….which seems highly unlikely.
Degaz,
“…playing GG D through age 37….which seems highly unlikely.”
Though not unprecedented.
Brooks Robinson had a 5.0 WAR in his age 37 season, and a 1.1 in his age 38 season.
Mike Schmidt had a 6.1 WAR in his age 37 season, and a 2.0 in his age 38 season.
Ozzie Smith had a 5.1 WAR in his age 37 season, and a 2.6 in his age 38 season.
The lion’s share of those WAR numbers was based on D, since none were exactly lighting up the scoreboard with their bats.
Brooks and Ozzie could pick it. Schmidt at age 37 had an offensive season Chapman will never reach.
“Schmidt at age 37 had an offensive season Chapman will never reach.”
You’re right. I missed that. But that’s also why his WAR that season was 6.1, not all of which was due to his hitting. And it still supports my point; that it isn’t unprecedented that a guy at age 37, can still play above average D, and in Schmidt’s case with the bat as well.
Matt Chapman is no Mike Schmidt. Chapman’s 2024 season is unprecedented for him. Glad he got paid but we can stop all the wishful thinking and comparisons. We can dig up more players who have struggled mightily at age 37. Including ex-Giant Evan Longoria just for recent memory. Also don’t want to be a deborah downer but the Giants are destined for mediocrity again next year.
“We can dig up more players who have struggled mightily at age 37.”
I might be more convinced if you’d named more than one. And whose career was sidelined by injury. Chapman has been durable. Longoria didn’t seem injury prone, but did miss games in 2 seasons prior to his age 32 season. Longoria had plantar fasciitis, which is a chronic condition. No one knows the condition of Chapman’s health better than the Giants. Not sure your comparison is apt.
They may be mediocre. Possibly they won’t. But it seems like a rookie mistake to make a prediction so far out from next season without knowing anything they’ll do in the offseason.
I also want to address this:
“Matt Chapman is no Mike Schmidt.”
I never said he was. This is an attempt to redefine my point, by suggesting I was comparing their baseball skills. I wasn’t. I was comparing their ability to play high quality D into their age 37 seasons. I stand by that comparison.
If you would stop trying to manipulate what I posted into a different point that you want to argue, we could have an interesting debate. But it seems like you just want to argue rather than have an open-minded exchange of opinions.
“I might be more convinced if you’d name more than one”.
Would you like just 3B or all positions, and do players who don’t make it to 37 not count in your eyes? I am asking because I cannot believe one would be silly enough to say this.
At third, Eddie Mathews, Scott Rolen, Ron Santo, Josh Donaldson (who had a better prime than Chapman).
Countless examples at other positions. As for the Giants mediocrity it would be a rookie mistake to bet on the Giants overtaking the Dodgers, DBack or even the Padres next year.
I did not manipulate anything you said. You do that on your own without accountability for your own schoolboy argument. It is difficult to debate with a homer with blind spots as you do.
Wow, you really had to dig. Mathews last season was 56 years ago. In case you hadn’t noticed the game has changed a lot since then, especially in terms of nutrition and conditioning. Mathews is a weak example on top of that. He had a 111 OPS+ in 1967, his age 35 season. 1968 was a lost one as he missed most of the season with injury. Not convinced with that example.
Scott Rolen posted a 126 OPS+ in his age 35 season, and a 90 in his age 37 season. The Giants will be happy to get that from Chapman.
Yeah, Santo fell off a cliff after the age of 33, but again. did you really need to go that far back; to the 1970s, to find examples. You weren’t exaggerating when he said you could “dig up” players.
In my opinion you’ve dug up all of 2 players, Longoria, and Donaldson. to support your opinion.
“I did not manipulate anything you said.”
Yeah, right.
An overpay and a contract too long, but not a surprise when the new measurement of success allows the bar to be lowered on the offensive side. Chapman is a good player, good guy to have in the clubhouse and a strong defender. It’s understandable he would take the offer considering how the market played out less than a year ago. Giants should be considering a step back to rebuild for 2026. By then Chapman should be slowing down.
Many said Chapman would get $30-mil annually. Close, I guess.
Boras must have some pictures of Farhan Zaidi in a compromising position.
Ala..Senator Patrick Geary in GF2 lol
Solid deal but too long for a player that had a great year moreso defensively than offensively though. This is length assuming he can continue to play GG D through his contact where he will turn 37. Would have preferred a team option for the last 1 or 2 years of the contract but still a solid contract for the next few years anyways. Some risk here..
“But too long for a player”…Normally I do agree with this type sentiment, but you do have to motivate the player(and his agent) to sign now and not wait till free agency. By that definition all in-season extensions will contain at least a slight overpay.
All in all, I like the deal for San Fran. Of course, it’ll all be for naught if San Fran doesn’t draft, trade and develop well, to surround Chappy with high level teammates. Drafting, developing and trading well is the real key to baseball not free agency or massive in-season extensions.
Degaz
“Would have preferred a team option for the last 1 or 2 years of the contract ”
Almost certainly Chapman would have agreed to that contract – if he’d been offered tens of millions more during the first 5 or 4 years
The length of deals like these is largely to bring down the AAV
I cringe at what Crochet, Adley and Gunnar end up getting after this signing. Soon there will be 6 teams in MLB. Nobody else will be able to keep up.
While the length and value seems a bit high, you have to remember that at least 2/5 of the rotation and a minimum of 3-4 positions will be locked down by players entering their 2-3rd year in the majors. They can afford a potential overpay at a few positions with all the low cost young talent they have.
Seems like a lot for a long time, But also seems like a Graig Nettles type, who might be able to contribute something even later in the contract. Everyone is an overpay, so it’s just a matter of how much.
Too much money for too many years for a .240 hitter that strikes out too much and is not getting any younger. This is just for his defense I guess. Farhan doesn’t know how to rebuild. This team has no plans for the future. If fans keep paying, the organization will keep on doing the same thing. It’s a bobblehead team.
I don’t know what I’m more shocked about. Chapman getting the sixth year or Boras negotiating an extension during the season. Chapman is a great fit for the Giants and I’m glad to see them be proactive and get this done early.
Since MLBTR didn’t see fit to do it
Assuming a 4.5% discount rate, the present value of Chapman’s deal is just about $130 million.
Since this contract contains no deferrals, the concept of present value does not apply.
BlueSkies, Not true. Inflation still plays a role, and the value of that $25M will be significantly less 6 years from now.
I understand this concept, but since the salary owed each year is paid out in that year, present value does not apply. If it did, the salaries in the second and plus years of every contract would be discounted for CBT calculations, which is not the case. It’s hard enough to explain the concept of present value without trying to apply it to every contract more than one year in length. It comes in when money owed to a player in one year is paid out in a subsequent year.
“…the salary owed each year is paid out in that year”
Exactly. When the Giants pay Chapman $25M in 2030, the value of that money will be less than it is today. This has nothing to do with CBT calcs. but the actual value today versus what it will be 6 years from now.
The point being made was along the lines of what Bryce Harper is being paid this season. It seemed like a lot of money when he signed, but his current salary of around $23M per year, in this his 6th season, is as big a bargain as there is.
Yes, in principle if a player’s contract calls for him to be paid the same salary each year he will be financially benefiting somewhat less per year each year. However… longterm contracts take a lot into consideration, and not least of all, age and risk. The Harper example is good one. When he signed his contract nobody knew how he’d be performing in 2024. If he’d declined or was on the IL, the $23M he’s getting now certainly wouldn’t look like such a bargain. Players who remain useful through longterm contracts nearly always look like a bargain because they gave up part of their potential earning ceiling for security. I feel adding present value into this calculation only confuses an already very complicated value proposition. Deferrals are another story altogether.
Like the CBT, no one mentioned deferrals except you. Sure, every long term deal where the guy stays healthy is a bargain. But again, when Harper signed his deal, it was considered a huge amount of money. If fact it was the largest contract in MLB history at the time. Now there are 22 guys being paid more this season than Harper. The effect of inflation, has turned what was a huge amount of money into a bargain in 6 years. Chapman might be a bargain as well if he can remain productive. That was the point.
I mentioned deferrals and the CBT because this is the only place where present value calculations are recognized. Every longterm contract is a “huge amount of money” so I don’t see this as being a very useful distinction. The longer the commitment a team is willing to make the larger the discount the team gets on the annual payout, which is their reward for assuming the risk. We know salaries are going up in aggregate as the revenue in the game increases but this is also not a present value calculation, it’s a function of the business of baseball. Present value is really only a financial calculation, which is why it only makes sense to talk about it where it actually comes into play, where the player agrees to collect their salary in years after it is earned.
BSLA
“Since this contract contains no deferrals, the concept of present value does not apply.”
Wrong
Correct, actually. I made the argument. You said nothing.
BSLA
Wrong
Your argument was wrong
Jean is correct.
Different contract structures change the present value of the contract. If the contract were front or back loaded or paid out evenly it would have different present values.
If you don’t understand or care that’s one thing
The PV matters.
If
If you don’t understand or don’t care, that’s not the same as it not mattering
I understand you are trolling.
BSLA
Ig providing relevant information is your definition of trolling, then sure
This response to the information that I provided seems a lot like trolling
“Since this contract contains no deferrals, the concept of present value does not apply.”
It’s all but certain that the team and the player both considered the PV of the contract.
If you don’t want to, or don’t understand it, that’s on you.
At this point I’m just countering your misinformation
He just robbed them blind. I hope MLB doesn’t turn into the NBA where guys averaging 8 points and 9 rebounds get massive contracts just because teams have money to spend. It’s made the sport hard to watch, for me. I can’t even watch for the entertainment value knowing these guys are getting paid more than crazy money.
$25 million a year is not a massive contract.
For 6 years starting at age 32 is pretty massive. Not a lot of those being handed out.
Dude.
You can always watch college baseball to embrace your fetish
gr8
“massive contracts just because teams have money to spend.*
Where would you like the money that fans choose to spend on MLB to go?
The price of going to a game or the price of cable TV could be lower. But I’m not complaining about honest capitalism. I’m just saying that for ME, watching the NBA has become unbearable when barely mediocre guys are getting crazy contracts. I’m not saying stop it, I’m saying I can’t watch it.
gr8
Are the billionaire owners better than mediocre? Cause they get a lot more than the players?
I’m not a socialist. They can keep what they earn, including the players. All I said said was that the NBA has become unwatchable because of the crazy contracts. I’m not saying to do anything about it. For me, I can’t watch it.
gr
“I’m not a socialist”
LOL. What?
Oh. You don’t know that socialism is.
I’m asking you if you can watch a sport when the owners are making more than the vast majority of the players? And do you think the owners are not mediocre?
I really don’t think $25 million is that much for Matt Chapman, even if he regresses in a couple of years. The qualifying offer is over $20 million now; if Chapman falls apart at the end of the deal, they’ll essentially be paying him an average FA salary. Aside from that, the Giants have a budding young core (the article here failed to mention their best young player, Tyler Fitzgerald) and could use a reliable veteran hand and clubhouse presence in Chapman, someone who can generate buy-in. He’s miscast as a cleanup hitter but he’s above average at the plate, an excellent base runner, and looks to be a premium defender again now that he’s off the turf. Not a steal by any means, but a just fine and good deal.
I’m not nearly as hot on the budding young core. I’m still not really sure what they have in Ramos and Fitzgerald, the two standouts this year, Fitzgerald was a scrub prior to this year, and he’s been regressing after his really hot start. Meckler, Schmitt, and Wisely all look like AAAA guys. Hard to say what they’ll get our of Matos or Luciano, but probably nowhere near what they thought. They’ll need some experienced stalwarts like Chapman, and there are holes to plug, particularly in the rest of the infield. But they are handing out a lot of money and years to a guy on the wrong side of 30.
Fitz is good. He’s not gonna hit 7 homers a week like he did for a second there, but he’s bounced back after a rough patch and he’s gonna be a good player imo (750 OPS over his last 7 while playing surprisingly good defense at SS and stealing bags at a high rate). Core for me is Ramos, Fitz, Lee, Walker, Birdsong, Harrison, Webb, Bailey, Doval, pretty solid, with Eldrige quickly turning into one of the best prospects in baseball. Not sure about Matos or Luciano, but they’ve shown good signs at times and they’re still pretty damn young. I think signing Adames to play SS and shifting Fitz over to 2B might shore up the infield for years to come.
Zaidi has shown an aptitude for acquiring undervalued role players and has used that skill to paper over what was essentially a complete rebuild at the MLB and minor league level; if they can hit on a few of these prospects like they have with Fitz and possibly Eldrige, I have a lot of confidence he’ll find the next Estrada or Wade to compliment them and build a sustainable core. Even with this contract, we are looking at a team with a lot of money still to spend and the flexibility to exercise it.
Ramos, Fitz and Lee all could be good to very good players. Though time will tell if any one of them have continued success but I can see why people hope on it.
Birdsong and Harrison both are questionable at this time. They have been good at times and terrible.
Bailey has hit a wall two years in a row.
I think the issue with the giants isn’t really a lack of talent but a lack of consistency.
They need to add a consistent middle of the order bat or two. Chapman is not that.
Simm, I’d say it’s the performance of Harrison and Birdsong that has been questionable, but they’re still young. They’re both just 22, with Harrison in his first full season, and Birdsong in his first partial one. Over Logan Webb’s first 2 seasons he had a 79 ERA+. I’m not predicting success, but much of the ability to pitch is learned. Time will tell.
Bailey is the best defensive catcher in baseball, so any value from his bat is gravy.
I totally agree with your points about their lack of consistency, and that Chapman should be batting lower in the line up. The only reason he isn’t is there’s no one better to replace him.
Giants struggle a lot on offense. So baileys bat being gravy isn’t helping them. Now if they had 8 other better hitters than sure.
I just don’t see next year being much different than this year for the giants. Soto to me is the one game changing bat out there and I don’t see him being a giant. I could see them going for Alonso but I’m not too sure he brings anything besides power. Who else is really out there bats wise?
I agree Bailey is not helping score runs, but his value is behind the plate and he provides more value there than he lacks with the bat.
Being an optimist, I do see them better next season. All the young players, both pitchers and position guys, will have an additional year of experience. I see the injury to Lee as a big loss this season, and expect him to contribute greatly.
Soto would be a difference maker, but I don’t see him being a Giant either. I got my hopes up for Judge, Ohtani, and others, and I expect he’ll stay with the Yankees. Alonso could be interesting as a DH.
I’m not counting out guys like Matos, or Luciano. In the previous two seasons, Ramos was worse than those two have been this season.
Optimistic as in maybe .500
They need real offensive help.
This flawed team has flirted with .500 all season. Optimistic in that they will be better next season, should Lee, as well as others, remain reasonably healthy, and that the young guys progress.
Just out of curiosity, has he looked like a team leader and solid clubhouse guy over this year with the Giants? I know the manager said he was a veteran leader (though praising players is kind of his job), but with the A’s he always looked professional but very isolated from the other players.
If only there was a horrendously terrible team who had a young first baseman who looks like he needs a change of scenery who would actually want to come to San Francisco allowing San Francisco’s current 1b to move to LF to lengthen their lineup…even better if that first baseman actually went to Cal Berkeley so he knows what to expect of the area to begin with.
“If supplemented correctly”
Not as long as Farhan’s around.
That said, Fitzgerald, Ramos, Bailey, Harrison, Winn, Birdsong, Walker, Miller, Rodriguez, Bivens and Roupp are all pre-arbitration. Lee, Webb, Hicks, Murphy, the Rogers brothers and now Chapman are the only guaranteed contracts beyond this season (assuming Snell and Ray opt-out) and guys Luciano, McCray, Meckler, Eldridge, Black, Crawford and Whisenhunt coming its not a bad deal in the sense that Giants have a relatively inexpensive core to put a few big money contracts around
Alex Bregman : “ Way to go Matty, thank you. “
I got so much crap for saying he would get paid $150 million and he got paid $150 million. Most people were saying he would get 4/80 or 5/100 or some garbage like that.
Perhaps you all were right. He got 150m but perhaps he shouldn’t have.
The Giants felt he should and since they are the one paying the price, obviously they felt he is worth it. It’s not like the Giants can’t afford it. $25 million AAV won’t prevent them from signing other players.
You said 5/150.
He said 150. You said 80. Who was closer?
Did I now?
Maybe it’s the way you communicated it.
Seems like a little too much but it’s not terrible. 3b just don’t age well typically that’s my concern here. Arenado went from MVP candidate to a solid but unspectacular player in the last 2 years. He was better than Chapman to start.
The Dansby Swanson of 3B signings
Too much money. No one is “worth” that much. Not a difference maker.
Tried to be a fan, but not clutch when it counted.
Sorry guys…but just didn’t like the negative attitude while in Toronto. SF is a good place to hide on the west coast. Out of the limelight.
Glad it wasn’t a team that matters that signed him.
6 WAR means his production on the field was worth $54 million for 2024 if he went to free agency. Regardless of your opinion about how “clutch” he is or his “attitude” on a former team, that is what he has done on the field indicates. He signed for 6/150 so that is what he was worth to the Giants. Saying anything else is just sour grapes.
Retired from “beyond that”. I don’t have to do anything other than baseball if I don’t want to. Live in an oceanfront house in Greenwich that you can only dream of. Own vacation homes in each of the cities my kids and grandkids live in. I get to be baseball everyday anywhere I want and I spend 3 months of the year traveling to do just that. You can only wish you had my life.
So go on back to your whining and sour grapes. At least the other guy was sour grapes about baseball. You are are whining about other people’s posts on the board. Can you be any more pathetic? Guess we will see just how low you can go in your response.
.247 tells you one thing: H/ABs. How much of a player’s offensive value does that describe? Not very much!
ABs dont include walks or HBP; both important offensive statistics that show you how much a player avoids outs, which is the ultimate goal of any given plate appearance. How much is a H worth? Is a H the same at Coors field as it is at Oracle? Is a 1B the same as a HR? Is a HR in 1968 the same as a HR in 2021, or 2001? is a H by Mo Vaugn the same as a H by Rickey Henderson, who you know will end up at second base in a couple pitches?
BA is fine for what it is, it just tells you ONE thing in an offensive profile that includes dozens and dozens of ways to contribute. And when you actually consider all of those things, it might make you shake your head that you ever put so much stock in just one number.
Go ahead and name those dozens and dozens of ways.
go ahead and read a little, it might be good for you
Guess not. I was really looking forward to reading those dozens and dozens of ways.
Look who’s not mad
Huge win for Borass and his client. This is the kind of contract that the agent has earned a reputation for obtaining. A player getting paid for what he used to do and not what he will do moving forward.
I’m only surprised that it was Farhan and the Giants giving it up. For me, this is a sign that Farhan is in fact in trouble and could be replaced this winter. There is just no way he would initiate this kind of a deal. Totally uncharacteristic behavior for Farhan. Smells a lot like Baer Intervening and saying “the fans are restless, and we’ve got to do something to appease them”.
Or it was a just a good fit and there was no emotion based fan rubbish involved at all.
Good work Farhan. Good work Scott. Good fit getting done quickly. The miserable death riding folk excluded, everyone is a winner.
Lol.You can ignore anyone’s thoughts if they mention batting average at all in a post
Right, as long as he continues to get a 4-5 homers a month he is golden. Doesn’t even matter if he gets any additional hits.
I wish Bogey could do that
Brew- me and you both. Though I don’t find myself wishing Arraez could do that.
Of course if Xander was a .322 lifetime slap hitting I would care if he did either. Currently he I as a 260 slap hitter.
My wish was just granted at 6:07 pm tonite
“If they mention batting average”…That’s a rather arrogant point of view since analytics has been used for over 10+ years to analyze hitters, whereas batting average has been used to analyze hitters for over 100+ yrs. It’s just another way of saying “I’m better than you”, right frog?
The facts are batting avg is one of the ways a hitters success is measured. So people think it’s totally meaningless.
Yet every single platform lists it even the most advanced.
Every gm, manager and scout as well looks at and holds value to it. One of the highest values they there is…even in today’s world.
“Every gm, manager and scout”…”I still consider batting average against to be the most important statistic in pitching” – Hofer Greg Maddux…
Yep. My favourite is the “you are a casual” insult. Too funny. It’s just baseball. Get your ego under control.
Some of the moneyball A’s best years were centered around middle of the order guys with high averages and a low OBP (Tejada and Cespedes). A strong slugger that gets a lot of hits does a great job of clearing the bases for those valuable “big run” innings.
MLB f
“It’s just another way of saying “I’m better than you”, right frog?”
It’s a way of saying batting average (a made up stat that originally had nothing to do with baseball) is a terrible stat for measuring offensive performance.
It doesn’t tell you how often a player gets a hit.
It doesn’t tell you how often a player gets on base
It doesn’t tell you how much power a player hits for
It doesn’t tell you anything really useful
Many posters feel it’s high dollars. It is based on historical outlook. But … it is now what the market bears. Basically the going rate. For an everyday 31 yo FA 240 hitter.
Baseball is flush with cash.
You’re gonna see wtf contracts this off season.
Just the going rate folks. The market bears the price.
Yeah…last game set me back around $550 for three people…and it was a lousy game (over by the third inning). Won’t be doing that often when groceries keep going up too….
Flush with cash….i could feel the vacuum hoses sucking every last dime out of my wallet…
You got it buddy. It’s a vacuum is right.
Go to the the park , AFTER shelling out for parking food tickets you get bombed with “ buy this buy that” new sweaters. Hats. Every week something new to suck your $$. Fan fest , bring your money.
And the sapsuckers keep buying.
So wtf give ‘em more
Can’t forget the “city connects” jerseys. People buy them to look like they’re part of the team. Truth be told…outside of the ball park; the shirts are worthy of a barf bag and people look goofy in them. But they keep selling them!.
This was discussed a couple of weeks ago and while on the upper end of the range, this seems about right, Both Chapman and Bregman are finishing strong and let’s not forget SF paid the QO draft price for him. Yeah that’s a suck cost but that cost would have hurt more if Chapman was 1 and done.
I haven’t seen anything that discusses any deferred $’s that might bring the CBT # down not that it’s necessarily high. I argued his 6th year might be a way to bring down the AVV however in the end this is what it costs to keep him off the market.
To every poster bringing up batting ave WTF are you talking about? That is simply not how player performance is measured, it’s sort of relegated to a stat in your fantasy league.
Chapman is across the board good to very good, complete player on both sides of the ball and given your current long term starter (Webb) is a ground ball machine having Chapman is a +. Having him next to Fitzgerald if he ends up being the long term at SS is a plus too as Fitz is a bat first SS. Lastly having him in the fold makes whatever chances they have at signing Snell marginally better.
Gonna see a fall off around ages of 34/35…. maybe this is a precursor to snell
Hey Giants fans, you gotta remember that Chapman can pitch. He closed in college. Even though he doesn’t want to be a two-way player.
I wonder if the Giants are as sold on Fitzgerald as the fans are. I could SF going after Adames. The competition for him with be great though. But if they could land him, and then find a regular 2B between Fitz, and Luciano. I think Thairo gets non-tendered and I don’t see Wisely as a long-term piece either.
SS is an interesting question, it’s not clear Fitz has played as an every day SS anywhere in MiLB, so this month will tell a lot but he needs reps and lots of them. His bat doesn’t profile as well in a corner OF as it does up the middle.
The shortstop the SFG will more likely be in on is Ha-Seong Kim due to his versatility as well. Ironically Kim pushed Jung Hoo Lee off SS in Korea, makes you wonder about Lee’s positional versatility
Next up….Willy Adames
Giants have plenty of cash. This is some of the money they were gonna waste on Correa. A bit less.
Won’t affect their “ budget” at all.
They’ll give out more lousy contracts yet.
Good for Chapman! Does this signing take them out of the running for Juan Soto?
Absolutely not. Though I doubt he’ll wind up in a Giants’ uni.
But, as a franchise they’ve shown a willingness to spend, and have as much money to do so as any other team. They own their stadium, and the debt service on it was paid off years ago. They’ve developed a lot of the land around the stadium. They have money to burn. All they need is for someone like Soto to agree to take it. That’s been the problem.
May be a long shot but they’ll have convos with Boras. When he was playing in San Diego, Soto mentioned that it was tough not having his parents around as much since it was far from D.R.
the Giants are going nowhere fast
The law of supply and demand its that simple.
Viva free agency.
JU
“Did i read that right? 151 mil!!!
.240 hitter
31 yrs old
6 yr deal”
Yes. You read it right. But you just read the SparkNotes. Maybe try reading a little deeper
Above average hitter
Elite defender
Highly productive player
Jokes on Chapman. Now hes stuck in that filthy city for a while
Sounds ok with it.
“This feels like home for me,” Chapman said. “It feels like I’ve been here for a lot longer than one season. … I feel really comfortable in the Bay Area, and I just love being here.”
He just took a discount to stay because he loves the Bay Area. So the guy that has spent most of his playing career living in the area thinks it’s awesome but somehow you don’t? Maybe you should spend some time there instead of watching Newsmax.
Discount. Funny.
I don’t think funny is the word to describe the discount Chapman said he took to stay with the Giants and in the Bay Area. Interesting maybe. But you do you boo.
The word you are looking for is preposterous. Chapman took no discount. To believe that is rather silly. But you do you fool.
SaS and BiL
Per FanGraphs
“ZiPS estimates a $141 million contract for those six seasons, so the actual contract represents neither a significant overpay for forgoing free agency nor a hometown discount.”
fangraphs.com/players/matt-chapman/16505/stats?pos…
He signed a deal that was basically market value.
3 year 60 seemed a bit much. Buyer’s remorse likely kicks in next season. Heck of a guy though.
I don’t know how Chapman keeps fooling these GMS. Hes more of a defensive replacement then an actual thirdbaseman. He can’t hit, plain and simple. Yeah his WAR is high, but who really cares? He doesn’t contribute to winning
Agent Farhan strikes again….
Boras wins again.
Honestly I could see Sabean making this same move, so as much as i don’t like Farhans teams, maybe it’s a step in the right direction….
And hey, we’re not getting a non major leaguer or injured player unlike other recent additions.
Nick, Chapman was guaranteed $20 million for 2024 so he will finish 2024 plus his extension with $171 million.
Nick, he has already spent the majority of his career in the Bay Area.
The Giants just loved to throw money at bad players. What a brutal contract. He’s just not that good at the plate. Especially not worth all this money. And paying him through his 837 season? He’s pretty much at the teetering point right now.
rave
Do you think Chapman is a bad player?
6.0 WAR
122 OPS+
13 DRS
He is an elite player.
But you know that. You just are trolling hoping for a response to feed your need for attention. Congratulations. You got it.
Leadership is a thing. Not so much in fantasy baseball but in real life team situations it matters a lot. As Melvin has said, especially important when you are bringing youth into your roster. Outside of baseball performance, it’s what they hoped they would get with Chapman and apparently he delivered. The stat folks need to apply a multiplier to the numbers for a true reflection of his value to the Giants. The Giants have been desperate for a leader. Webbs reasonably young shoulders are sore from carrying that load by himself.
The biggest takeaway from the extension is that Casey Schmitt ain’t what everyone was hoping he would be. He’s actually getting worse, much much worse. There isn’t a low and way off the outside breaking pitch he won’t swing at. Or the inside high heater. He’s lost at the plate.
Not everyone was high on Schmitt. I admit I did get excited hearing about his 2023 ST. I say hearing since I don’t watch ST games. But once I saw him at bat I was dismayed. I thought his setup in the box was terrible. And he had an over-aggressive approach.
I saw him strike out one time with runners on at a big point in a game. Every player has done that, but he did so without the pitcher throwing a single pitch in the strike zone. I think it’s noteworthy that Fangraphs doesn’t have him in the top 42 SF prospects, after having him at 7th the year before.
Per FanGraphs
“ZiPS estimates a $141 million contract for those six seasons, so the actual contract represents neither a significant overpay for forgoing free agency nor a hometown discount.”
fangraphs.com/players/matt-chapman/16505/stats?pos…