The Pirates’ fall both in the NL Central and the NL Wild Card hunt has prompted plenty of speculation about the job security of manager Derek Shelton, but general manager Ben Cherington told the team’s beat today that he feels Shelton is the “right person to manage this team in 2025” and said he expects Shelton will return next season (X link via Kevin Gorman of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review). Shelton initially signed a four-year deal spanning the 2020-23 seasons and was extended early in the ’23 campaign.
It’s the second straight year in which the Pirates have shown signs of getting back into contention in the NL Central, only to fade in significant fashion. The ’23 Pirates got out to one of the hottest starts of any club in baseball but wilted as the season wore on. This year’s club rebounded from a slow start with a hot summer showing, going 29-22 in June and July to position themselves as a Wild Card contender. Cherington added Bryan De La Cruz, Isiah Kiner-Falefa and Jalen Beeks at the deadline in hopes of sparking a postseason push for his club, but the Bucs responded with a disastrous 8-19 record in August, tanking their playoff hopes. They’re currently 69-76, sitting last place in the division.
Shelton, 54, is in his fifth season managing the Pirates. They’ve yet to produce a winning record or finish better than fourth in the division under his watch, although as is the case with any manager of a rebuilding club, that’s hardly a reflection of his effectiveness. The Pirates tore down much of the roster and embarked on a lengthy rebuilding effort when Cherington was hired, and Shelton has rarely been given the makings of a competitive big league roster. That said, the Buccos have had a better foundation recently — certainly this season, with Paul Skenes and Jared Jones arriving on the scene — but have yet to consistently look like a well-rounded club.
Starting pitching is the organization’s strength, with Skenes, Jones and Mitch Keller comprising a strong trio atop the rotation. But many of the Pirates’ most touted young hitters have failed to progress as hoped — whether that be third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes, who’s declined at the plate amid a series of back injuries, or former No. 1 overall pick Henry Davis, who’s mashed in Triple-A but has yet to carry that production to the majors. Pittsburgh’s bullpen was also touted by Cherington as a potential strength heading into the season but has generally floundered this season, thanks in large part to a surprising step back from former All-Star closer and Pittsburgh native David Bednar.
Bolstering the lineup and improving the bullpen figure to be focal points for the front office this offseason, although perennially frugal owner Bob Nutting isn’t likely to give Cherington & Co. much to work with in terms of financial resources. That’ll only increase the importance of extracting the most from their in-house young talents. Given some of the myriad struggles up and down the roster, it’s plenty feasible that there’ll be changes made to Shelton’s coaching staff. Barring a turnaround next season, it also stands to reason that Shelton himself could be on thin ice sooner than later.
It’s at least anecdotally notable that Shelton’s predecessor, Clint Hurdle, publicly stated late in the 2019 season that he’d been told he’d return for the 2020 season — only to be fired a matter of days later. This situation isn’t exactly analogous, as it’s the general manager and not Shelton himself making this statement. Cherington’s comment does stop short of firmly declaring that Shelton will be retained, which technically leaves the door cracked for owner Bob Nutting to step in and make a change, but the overwhelming likelihood is now that Shelton will get a sixth go at helming the ship and trying to steer the Pirates into a legitimate postseason contender.
Ugh, this is a disappointing decision. To Shelton’s credit, he’s better than John Russell….. but not by much
That means little now. No sense of changing now, He’s been bad, and ownership is aware. They were 8 and 19 in Aug. If they managed to hold on to just 6 of the more than 10 blown leads, they’d be 75 and 71…still in the hunt. This is on Sheltons management of the pen.
I certainly don’t think he’s a great coach but I think he tried everything he could with the pen this year and it didn’t work. Say what you will about his lineup choices (not good) and pulling pitchers early while leaving others in to get crushed, but what was he supposed to do when his two “best” relievers imploded in the middle of a pennant race one after another??
The plan was always Chapman/Holderman/Bednar in an ideal world but he ran out of guys he could count on, had to use Chapman a bit too much, and other guys like Stratton and Nicholas were too inconsistent. Never had a good long reliever. Should have demoted Bednar earlier but then you put Chapman in the 9th and do what beofre him?? Dennis Santana can’t pitch every night.
if Haines is also returning, their offense still won’t be much better than the past four years under his tutelage
Like saying Alex Cora is better than John Farrell.
Then another season with my family not visiting PNC park! I won’t support them without change
Guess you won’t be to PNC for a long time
Rick Pitino: Roberto Clemente isn’t walking through that door. Dick Groat isn’t walking through that door. And Smoky Burgess isn’t walking through that door. And if they walk through that door, I’m out of here because none of them are alive.
Well, for what it’s worth, Clint Hurdle also said that he would be back for 2020 back in late September 2019, and he was let go like a week later. Crossing my fingers that’s what happens here. Plus Cherington endorsed Cruz sticking at shortstop, but moved him to CF a week later (though that could have been more of a Shelton decision than a Cherington one). Guess we’ll just have to hope that this is smoke and mirrors or feelings change over the next 3-4 weeks.
Typically in sports the late season “vote of confidence” from the owner or GM means it might be a good idea to update the ol’ resume
Oh no not that. I bet they start looking for a new manager right away now.
This is a complete travesty.
Cherington is a horrible GM, and Shelton is one of the WORST managers in all of MLB. What a joke, and it’s a huge slap in the face to Pirate fans.
Skenes or no Skenes, my family and I are OUT.
No more trips to Pittsburgh, and thank goodness we have a new favorite team after this horrendous announcement.
I understand being upset and not wanting to support your team if you disagree with the direction of the franchise. However, i don’t get how you can just jump to a “new favorite team”…
you might be able to understand if your team had only enjoyed 3 playoff seasons in a 27 year span under current ownership
To be fair… The ownership was struggling to get out of the red a large portion of the 00s after the horrible franchise management of the previous owners. Looking back to that era I think it is fair to give some leeway.
Also to be fair.. pirate rarely fielded a play off team before Nutting’s took control either. Three playoff teams between 80 and 00 then six the previos 20 years.
Also to be fair… It was harder to get into the playoffs back then so.
I don’t understand how the Pirates have fans at all. They hate the owner gm and manager. Owner can’t spend what the fans want him to. GM needs to be fired and they won’t even fire a awful manager. Every Pirate fan should find a new team unless they simply just enjoy looking at the Clemente bridge and fireworks. Pirates fans get to look forward to hoping for a wild card game series for a few years and then yet another rebuild.
I root for the Pirates, theyre my team. But i hate the ownership. For example, when i go to the games, i buy general admission and sit anywhere, i park at the casino for free, and bring in my own food/beverage. And all my merch is 10+yrs old. There’s a way to root for your team without lining Nutting’s pocket
There are likely a good number of MLB fans who have a “second favorite” team. Our second favorite team has now become our favorite team. It works for us!
Maybe that’s true. Being from Boston we “ride or die” with the Sox but every fan/base is different
I have almost no faith in the front office, staff, scouts, development or coaching.
Only thing I do have faith in is that the Nutting’s will not bankrupt the team.
This seems like a “devil you know instead of the devil you don’t know” move. We live in an age where mediocrity is not just tolerated, it’s embraced in many cases.
Interesting data on Shelton.
Since he took over, he’s improved the W% each year.
Between 2020 and 2021, he saw a 17% increase. 2021-2022, it was 1.58%. 2022-2023 it was 20% and then 2023 – 2024 it was 1.48%. So, we might see a big jump above .500 next year for the Bucs.
He needs to work on improving the challenges. His career is 48% but this year improved to 63%. Maybe get some better staff and equipment to review the call.
Beyond that, he’s not much of a stolen base coach, as for his career, the league adjusted rate for him is 92, or 8 points below league average for staling 2nd base. His steals of 3B are down significantly compared to the league average but for his career, he wsa 22% above league average. Maybe put some more focus on stealing bases as well.
He had nothing to do with win percentage other than winning fewer games than a better manager would. The natural talent increase of a rebuild increased the win percentage. As more young talent got called up and more $ spent in free agency the wins increased.
@YourDreamGM
Then the team must have terrible natural talent if they continue to be below .500 all these years of the rebuild.
I’d suggest selling the talent off right now to get a proper rebuild if we haven’t seen even a .500 team in the past 5 years.
Have to wait 2 more years. No arbitration guys yet. Lack of talent and unable to develop the talent they have. Haven’t had a 500 team since 2018. Previous management was even worse at player development.
hey, at least Cherington fired the International scouting department because of their failure to develop good position players despite the fact that he oversaw that division for 5 years
Someone had to take the blame, it wasn’t going to be him
He’s been firing lately. But he’s the one who needs to be fired. Took all this time to realize these people weren’t up for the job! Fans knew this for years. Still doesn’t recognize Shelton Haines needs to go! Cherington has to be fired. New manager isn’t going to help. Cherington is the problem. Well Nutting Williams are for not seeing it. Guy should be gone already. New gm won’t make a difference for 2025 2026 2027 as these years are already decided but they could change the fortune of the franchise after that. This team shouldn’t have a short window but with Cheringtons development that’s all it will be.
They snagged Joey Bart., So they got that 1 working For them.
Even a bad GM gets lucky once in a while.
Bart was just a failure on the other 29 teams. He was clearly worth a roster spot and good bet for change of scenery increase. But yeah good for Pirates not being stupid.
This news = the pirates have no intention of being serious next season
Sadly another organisation that is seemingly not able to get out from rebuilding mode, same as the fellow Reds within the division. In both cases, more than blaming the GM or the Manager, it’s the ownership to blame.
Apathy on the part of ownership. Looks the part but lacks enthusiasm for the game. Content with how things are going in the FO.
Reminds me of Steinbrenner. Only difference; one has money. In both cases; nothing will change until ownership changes. No excuses up there in the Bronx for going this long without a WS championship. None.
One year of a letdown doesn’t mean a total failure. Still optimistic about the Reds. They have a deep group of young players that just didn’t work out this year.
Same with the pirates. They should still be in the adding phase but my fear is a total collapse of the pitching staff like in Miami.
Shelton and his random generated lineups each game are becoming increasingly frustrating.
Most teams have a steady lineup for RHP and LHP matchups with some variation that occurs on go-home travel games. Some variation with injuries and bad slumps.
Shelton continues to mix and match every game to limited success. Yanking pitchers too early one game then leaving them out to get shelled another has caused bullpen to become taxed.
This guy is a BUM.
Lost any hope I had for Cherington. They do everything wrong…..
A baseball team starts with the Catcher. His responsibilities in order are:
1 & 2:
Call a game.
Work with the individual pitchers, the coaching staff and the manager to bring the picher along they way they want.
3.
Play defense. Primarily block pitches in the dirt, limit stolen bases.
4,
Hit.
–
Who do the Pirates have on their roster for Catchers?
Joey Bart
Yasmani Grandal
Henry Davis
3 offensive (pun intended) Catchers.
–
The small market Brewers are at the other end of the spectrum. Always coach up their Catchers, which in turn maximizes what their pitchers can do. Plus they play D at all other positions.
With their payroll limitations the Pirates have a small chance of getting into the playoffs no matter how good 3 or 4 of their players are. Baseball is a team game. All 9 guys on the field have do their
jobs well. And the Catcher(s) set(s) the tone.
Nutting bad for team and fans plus MLB. MlB should make him sell or put minimum of 125 mill.to put into team.
It’s weird how many Pirates fans here have a sense of entitlement or expectations. It seems like the Pirates are making progress. Clearly they picked the right guy in Skenes and his presence alone is making a big difference. Skenes and Jones were never going to be able to keep pitching in October this year but next year that shouldn’t be a problem. They still have work to do but it looks like progress is being made.
What is sad is that if Cherington doesn’t fix the player development problem, it won’t matter who he drafts, the same problem that has plagued the development of the position players will continue
Exactly. Then find a manager who doesn’t change the lineup EVERY SINGLE DAY and knows how to manage a pitching staff.
5 years and he hasn’t fixed it. Year 6 or 7 going to change? The fact he traded 2 pitching prospects for 2 mlb ready position players tells you how he feels about development.
What a way to ruin my day!. If you’re not going to spend money, at least make some changes to the coaching staff. Right now, there is nothing to look forward to next year!
Haines has to be the fall guy. They can’t roll back with him next season.
Got fireworks and perogies races to look forward to.
Just imho, it feels like Cherington has under-performed. I think most of the talent on the team was already in the organization when he arrived.
He added Skenes, but he was the consensus 1/1. Davis looks weak for a #1/1, especially if he does not remain at catcher. And especially considering that one of their their top prospects (Endy) was also a catcher.
Endy wasn’t drafted by this organization, he came over as part of a trade
Never said Endy was drafted.
If he can’t remain at catcher he will be out of baseball unless someone teaches him to hit.
Cherington is capable of not messing up high draft picks and trades. Other than that he is awful. Can’t even see Shelton needs to go. They can make playoffs with Shelton or any manager who has that rotation. But costing a handful of wins every year and playoffs who knows. Coating a game there is huge.
Nutting is the problem. He needs to fire Cherington.
They would actually have a winning record had Shelton not used Bednar as the closer when it was apparent that his injury from spring training was still a problem.
Instead he kept using Bednar in the closing role and cost the team 8 wins
Ben hasn’t underperformed. A few of us thought he wasn’t going to do very well in this situation. Ben got ringa by spending money and/or taking on salary. His career tanked after the WS win and gets to much credit for then future red Sox play off teams.
That said, he is an experienced scout and I trust that skill much more than NH.
And I am wondering where all the Pirate fans are that called DLC a great pickup and a middle-of-the-order bat when I tried to explain that he wasn’t really a particularly good hitter.
I will humbly admit to being one who thought DLC would help this putrid offense but as it happens with this franchise at times, it wasn’t a good acquisition and in fact sucked
Joe;
Pilates fans are not bad people. In fact, Pittsburgh is a great sports town.
But that team has been so bad for so long that the fans will grasp at anything. Put it on the owner.
–
P.S. Answered your comment on the White Sox, Madrigal, Kimbrel.
I am wondering as well because I didn’t see anyone say that. Most were disappointed with the trade deadline. The remaining said Cherington got what he could. Consensus was DLC is better than McKinley Palacios Suwinski Taylor.
They have some good players in lineup and pitching staff but just never seem to be able to get good enough to win a weak division.
Or get a weak wild card. Or finish above 500 or 500.
Cherington is the one who should be gone. I’m not a Shelton fan by any means, but Ben hasn’t given him much of anything to work with. They were on par with Baltimore as far as a rebuild was concerned. Now? Not so much.
letitbelowenstein;
They were only on par with the O’s when they were signing guys and playing them in the minors. Then they brought some to the majors
Baltimore more started mid 2018. Pirates started beginning of 2021. Won’t ever catch them though this decade. Baltimore can develop Pittsburgh can not.
Maybe they can have two managers? Shelton to manager the first five innings and then have a relief manager so mistakes don’t happen with leveraging relievers and pinch hitters.
Newbucoprojectory;
Don’t sweat it.
JoelPTheMod has the intelligence and attention span of an amoeba.
That’s because he identifies as a mutant n has a ego the size of shredder foot army
Wait when did Red Sock guy move there
Wait the rebuild is in progress? Usually in a rebuild you show improvement.
This is like the 76ers trust the process mentality. I don’t see a rebuild. I see every year them hoping to find a few rebound veterans and hope some young players improve upon their last season.
This isn’t a rebuild. It’s lose, spend little on FA and repeat
Imagine if they had Judge five years ago 🙂
Shelton was fine for a stop gap but he’s been there too long. If BC was serious about contending I don’t then Shelton would still be there.
I thought the Bucs would be back by now. You had a good minor league system, with good draft picks. At least, this was what I was told. Either your picks were not that good, or not properly developed. While Shelton, is somewhat responsible for that, it is more likely an organizational problem. I do like your young Starting pitchers, so not all bleak.
Shelton may or may not be the whole problem, but IMO he is certainly not part of any solution in Pittsburgh. He keeps saying the same things after every game and doing the same things wrong during them. And I for one have grown tired of it.
you’re not alone, Monkey’s Uncle , many of us have grown accustomed and tired of his after game excuses
“ the players didn’t execute “
Especially in games where the hitters would strike out in double digits. Strike outs happen, but making half baked excuses for the players’ inability to put the ball in play instead of suggesting that their approach at the plate is the problem is a direct reflection of the failures of the hitting coach and his staff and Shelton covered for them constantly
I also enjoy “we have to do better.” Such a dumb statement. Too bad the pool reporters aren’t smart enough to follow up and press him. He sucks.
Shelton almost cost us the game again yesterday
Ordinarily he would have inserted Williams into the shortstop position as a defensive replacement in the 9th inning
Instead he left IKF there and he committed a costly error that led to a run and using Bednar as the closer in a pressure situation combined could have been a loss instead of a win
He misuses his lineup and the bullpen consistently
“…hardly a reflection of his effectiveness.” Really? The team is absolutely reflective of its leadership. There’s exactly one guy who plays hard every day and that’s the guy who plays every day and bats in the same spot every day: Bryan Reynolds. Maybe if the guys knew what their roles were on the team, they would respond in kind. But if I’m Connor Joe, I’m a leadoff hitter one day, a cleanup hitter the next. I play first base, I play outfield—what am I? 162 different lineups based on what exactly? Statistics? How is that working out? (Spoiler alert: poorly.)
No one on this team seems particularly motivated and they need leadership. It would be nice if Reynolds and McCutchen could provide more, but it’s not their job. They’re really young and they need someone to help them realize their potential and Shelton is most definitely not that person. Someone like Buck Showalter could do it. Joe Madden might be able to do it. There are better choices.
While I basically agree with everything you’ve said, the better choices for manager would cost more money than Nutting is willing to spend
Plus, firing Shelton would be a direct reflection on Cherington since he’s the one who gave him an extension last year
how can Cherington say that he expects Shelton to return next season when this team’s offense is so putrid
Marsh, the Royals pitcher not known to be a strike out pitcher has already k’d 7 Pirate batters in 3 innings
His season high is 8
Shelton and his entire coaching staff needs to be shown the door at the end of the season
9 strikeouts in 4 innings
But Derek still has work to do next season
What a crock of garbage
14 strikeouts last night and so far another 10 in today’s game with no XBH and one putrid run, but Shelton should come back next year to manage this team