The Red Sox announced that they have selected the contract of left-hander Joely Rodríguez. Right-hander Greg Weissert was optioned to Triple-A Worcester in a corresponding active roster move. To open a 40-man roster spot, lefty James Paxton was transferred to the 60-day injured list. Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic was among those to relay the moves on X.
Rodríguez, 32, signed a minor league deal with the Red Sox in the offseason. He cracked their Opening Day roster but didn’t post strong results initially. He made 11 appearances for the club with a 6.55 earned run average, the same numbers he had in limited time with them last year.
He was designated for assignment at the end of April and accepted an outright assignment after clearing waivers. He then spent about six weeks on the minor league injured list from the middle of May until late June. That has left him with just 14 1/3 Triple-A innings pitched this year, but with a strong 1.88 ERA. There’s likely a good deal of fortune in there, based on his .175 batting average on balls in play in that small sample. His 20.6% strikeout rate and 12.7% walk rate in that time were subpar, though he did get grounders at a strong 52.6% clip.
Those rate stats aren’t too far off of his major league track record. In 168 innings dating back to his 2016 debut, he has a 4.82 ERA, 22.8% strikeout rate, 10.1% walk rate and 55.7% ground ball rate. He’ll give the club a second lefty in the bullpen alongside Brennan Bernardino. He is out of options but can be retained beyond this season via arbitration if he holds onto his roster spot through the end of the year.
As for Paxton, it’s not a surprise to see him moved to the 60-day IL. He suffered a partially torn right calf muscle last week and manager Alex Cora said it was unlikely that the lefty would be able to return this year. He’s now officially ineligible to be reinstated until the second week of October. Unless the Sox make a deep playoff run and he heals up in the next two months, his season is over.
deweybelongsinthehall
Why? No other options? Fire water would be the same thing.
GASoxFan
Fire water at least has an enjoyable aspect to it. Not so much the case for Joely.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Joely most likely won’t be here for the rest of the season. They need a second lefty right now due to the teams they are facing (Diamondbacks tonight for example), but the plan is to get Liam Hendriks back in the bullpen over the next 1-2 weeks. Once Hendriks is ready, I can’t see Joely surviving even when rosters expand in September, unless he somehow pitches lights out for the team.
all in the suit that you wear
The Red Sox can still make the playoffs and make a run. This has been a really unpredictable year in MLB so far and I think there may still be a lot of surprises left.
deweybelongsinthehall
Barring injuries one of the two September moves will be Story. The other Hendricks. I’m not so sure when either happens. Rodriguez has been good in Worcester but in a small sample size. Unfortunately, is fans only remember his MLB Sox results.
MLB-1971
Dewey – agreed. Joely has been ok in AAA, and the only other eligible LH pitchers in AAA are Zack Penrod (not ready for the MLB) and Rich Hill (who was signed as a starter, not a reliever). Joely has MLB experience, and most likely will be used in lower leveraged situations.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dotty – Remember when they insisted Campbell would be effective neutralizing LHB?
That didn’t last very long.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dewey – Remember LHR was one of the glaring needs that Sox ownership refused to address last offseason because of their cheapness and lack of faith in the team.
luckyh
I just hope they concentrate on pitching and not go for Soto. They should kick the tires to drive up the bidding if they can, but they have a good core if position players. Pitching should be the focus.
smkelly1970
the desperate scraping the bottom of a dry well.
pohle
red sox fans are gonna love this
letitbelowenstein
Cora’s doing his happy dance.
B dog 351
Of course Cora is doing the happy dance . He loves strutting out to the mound for a pitching change . Now he has a new guy to go to. First chance he gets for a high leverage lefty in comes Joely. Or maybe he can become J ROD
Fever Pitch Guy
B Dog- That didn’t take long!!
User 4245925809
Like a bad penny..
Why not callup and add Zach Penrod to the 40 man roster? Someone who can actually help the team.
Occams_hairbrush
Yeah, that 6.10 ERA and 1.74 WHIP just screams “I’m ready to pitch at the ML level”
Just cuz Rodriquez is bad doesn’t mean Penrod is any better.
tff17
Since moving to a once-through-the-lineup role on August 7, Penrod has 5 G, 7 IP, 5 H, 5 BB, 9 K. A 3.86 ERA and 4.94 FIP. He has definitely looked better than the overall ERA would indicate, though I agree that is still pretty questionable for ML success.
Hoping Joely doesn’t see any key situations.
lemonlyman
Not only is that an incredibly small sample size, but it also doesn’t paint a picture of someone who has figured anything out. 5 walks in 7 innings leaves no question to what his ML success would be. It wouldn’t exist. Nobody gets better control when they’re called up to the MLB, so in all likelihood it will be closer to a walk per inning when he’s called up. It’s impossible to succeed at the MLB level with that lack of control unless you’re Nolan Ryan.
tff17
Yup. Was looking better until he gave up three walks in his last appearance, but as far as I am concerned they all count.
Agreed it is too small a sample size to be meaningful. He looks better in that role, but I would wait for the numbers to support that over a more meaningful sample before promoting him. I.e. not this year.
User 4245925809
Hit n run by just looking up numbers Ocean? Try going bit deeper if haven’t ever watched any of his games..
Yep, he’s given up runs, called up because AAA team was down to Indy ball refugees and AAAA retreads as starters and thrown into the mix as a SP.. promply gave up 11ER over 11.1 IP and 4 starts.
He isn’t a starter, plain to see if watch him and has improved to 2ER 5IP since to BP. Sitting upper 90’s with a nasty changeup alone makes him 100% improvement over the washed up Rodriquez.
Occams_hairbrush
“just by looking up numbers”
I’ve watched him. I’ve read scouting reports, and yes I also read his horrific numbers.
Is it ok to have my opinion now?
Fever Pitch Guy
John – The guy with the 6.65 ERA and 1.80 WHIP? I think he needs to figure it out in the minors first.
olmtiant
Oh BOY!!!!!!!
Fever Pitch Guy
Olm – Speaking of boy, Devers new mustache makes him look so much older … at least 16.
olmtiant
So frustrating at home… cue Paula A… two steps forward…
Fever Pitch Guy
Olm – Great reference, took me a while to get that one! Haven’t thought about her in ages.
I’m actually okay with the loss. Yeah the DBacks are beatable now without Marte and all their other key injuries, but at the start of this tough 10-game stretch I said if they can win half the games it will give me renewed hope …. and all they need is to win one game this weekend to accomplish that. They will still be in contention after Labour Day, can’t ask for more than that considering ownership didn’t have any intention of competing this year.
What’s concerning to me is Bello, he fell right back into his old habits when he made an awful decision to throw to 1B and absolutely airmailed it. Then he got rattled and imploded, not good.
Looking forward to the Sox beating up on the Jays next week, I’m thinking at least 4 wins right there. And Jansen will be playing for two teams in the same game!!!
Joemo
Time to revive a behavior that I had earlier in the season: if Joely is out in, just turn the game off. No point in watching anymore. Sox lost.
Why keep recycling through the same failed pitchers. Try some new blood! Look at Cam Booser as an example.
Joely is a waste of a roster spot. I thought they were trying to compete for a playoff spot.
Do better Breslow. This is the same old stuff the Sox have been pulling the past few years and we see how that turned out.
GASoxFan
I get the feeling they’re gearing up for the offseason, and, one piece of that is deciding whether to keep joely through ST or non-tender him.
Hopefully he only pitches in garbage time, but, doubt that will be the case, Cora being Cora.
They’ve got a month to make up four games and at least sneak in as a WC. Nonetheless, stay the course, see what happens, and go from there.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
The Paxton trade sure has worked out…
Occams_hairbrush
Nice ellipsis. Very impressive.
troy
Let’s see Paul Allen’s ellipses
BadCo
About the only trade that has worked out has been O’Neal. Breslows trade track record looking pretty bad so far.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bad – True it looks that way, but he was a late scratch because he hurt his ring finger lifting weights … he makes Stanton look like Ripken.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
So has the Mariners season and their “unstoppable” rotation
Ok Yankees Fan
Joely has the same exact ERA the last 2 years. Impressive. Great addition to Sawx pen.
MLB-1971
About as impressive as Verdugo. Lmao
letitbelowenstein
Blinded by his 1.88 ERA over 14-1/3 innings at Worcester. Look for Breslow to get canned or resign after next season. And the wheels on the bus…
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
No one wants the job
tff17
At this point in the season you can’t trade players on the ML roster, so they are limited to what is already in the system (e.g. Fitts, Penrod) and to the various waiver wire veterans. I’d like to see Fitts get a chance, but otherwise not seeing any good answers.
GASoxFan
TF – Henry doesn’t want to spend for a waiver claim, and, there is still a stigma attached to the period from August 2019 – 2023 that has free agent players prefer other options in many cases.
It is what it is.
tff17
Urshela was a free agent… In his shoes I would rather sign somewhere I can play rather than with a team that probably isn’t making the playoffs and doesn’t need me as a starter.
We’ve jumped on plenty of marginal pitchers using your logic, and while I won’t say they are bad moves, the results have been pretty predictable given the quality of the talent. Wingenter anyone?
tff17
Exactly. GA. In his shoes I would definitely prefer the Braves to the Red Sox.
GASoxFan
Same reason Dom went to the Reds rather than take an option to be AAA depth on the sox.
Money’s better, auditioning for a future gig is better, and, service time clock matters to guys scratching out a career.
tff17
If they can get in that 10 years, it is huge… Going to be tough for Dom, but you can’t blame him for trying.
GASoxFan
I’m not sure. By the end of this year he is probably sitting around 6.042 as a very rough guess.
That means 3 years and 130 days left at 30 years old. Doable, not necessarily easy though.
Fever Pitch Guy
Tff – Did you see Kavadas last night?
First MLB hit was a 3-run jack!
tff17
He’s a real Three True Outcomes guy!
Just six balls in play in 17 PA.
GASoxFan
TF – We don’t know they didn’t try at all with a number of guys.
All offseason we heard why haven’t the Sox made a play for Montgomery, and, in the middle of the season low and behold there’s reporting that Boston DID pursue him, he just had ZERO interest in playing here. The player won’t say it cause it limits offers and market bidding, and, the team doesn’t want to make itself look even worse than it already does. So we don’t normally hear such things. Last thing you want as a front office is to be telling reporters how all kinds of talent has no interest in joining your franchise, that would only make other players question even more whether they themselves should consider it.
But, the fact remains, when the narrative is why didn’t the sox get so and so or such and such would’ve been a perfect fit…
You need three things: front office interest, and owner willing to pay, and a player who likes the fit.
The second has been an issue for years now, and, the third has become a growing problem since Aug 2019.
tff17
How do you know they didn’t try? All we know is that he signed with the Braves, not what other teams did or didn’t do.
tff17
See his comments yesterday – sounded like he was fine with Boston but Boras screwed it up. Who knows?
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Great post as always, but I’m afraid you’re the victim of bad reporting (Heyman) with regard to Monty. Here’s one of several sources, personally I find it difficult to believe Monty would have turned down even a 1-year deal with the Red Sox because he wanted to play for a contender.
boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2024/08/23/jordan…
‘Obviously [Scott] Boras kind of butchered it’: Jordan Montgomery blames former agent for Red Sox not signing him in free agency
Montgomery said he would have considered playing in Boston if the Red Sox made an offer this past winter.
Montgomery blamed his former agent, Scott Boras, on Friday for “butchering” the offseason and failing to get a deal done with Boston in a timely manner.
“I had a Zoom call with (the Red Sox), that’s really all I know. It went good,” Montgomery told the Boston Herald’s Mac Cerullo ahead of the Red Sox’ series against the Diamondbacks this weekend at Fenway Park. “I don’t know, obviously Boras kind of butchered it, so I’m just trying to move on from the offseason and try to forget it.”
Despite one report claiming that Montgomery didn’t want to sign with the Red Sox following his deal with Arizona, he told Cerullo he would have been interested in playing in Boston.
“Yeah, for sure. Me and my wife loved it here. She was at Beth Israel for a year, love the area, love the fans,” Montgomery said. “It would have been awesome if it had worked out that way, but it didn’t.”
He also said that to his knowledge, the Red Sox never offered him a contract.
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – I’m confused, which player are you referring to that signed with the Braves?
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – Okay this one I know you’re talking about Monty, and I can say with certainty that Kennedy/Breslow admitted they never had a serious desire to sign him because they felt he wasn’t a good match.
Let’s not forget, they didn’t have any intention of contending this year so why would they dish out big bucks long-term or short-term? I don’t blame them for not wanting to pay what Boras was demanding early in the offseason, and then later on who wants to pay $25M for one year in which the Sox weren’t intending to compete?
But it kinda worked out in a dumb luck type of way (same as them failing to trade Duran) because not signing Monty gave Houck the opportunity to prove himself as a SP.
Remember the original Red Sox plan was Houck in the BP, Kenley and Martin traded, Abreu/Rafaela/O’Neill in the outfield.
Like they say, sometimes it’s better when you DON’T get what you want.
tff17
Exactly. Montgomery might have made sense at $120M to $150M, but not at the $200M he was looking for. And as you say, they didn’t match up on a pillow deal.
Amazing that they’ve come so close to contention without even trying. I dearly hope that they give Breslow a meaningful budget to work with this off-season, as the club isn’t THAT far from making a strong playoff run.
Houck would have seen his chance when Whitlock went down anyways, but I agree that this worked out well for him.
all in the suit that you wear
tff17: they’ve come so close to contention without even trying. I dearly hope that they give Breslow a meaningful budget to work with this off-season
================
How much is a meaningful budget?
tff17
Equal to or greater the prior season. Isn’t a whole lot that a GM can do with money that has already been spent.
I would also like to see them spend commensurate with their revenues, i.e. top five.
all in the suit that you wear
OK. So, how much are you thinking will be a meaningful budget for next season? A clear answer should probably be in actual spending and CBT spending. I am curious about the spending levels where people will stop complaining. I think the Red Sox are currently spending enough to field a very competitive team (as I’ve said many times on here). I think spending near the first CBT threshold should be enough at this point. However, they need to spend it better. I think they will exceed the first CBT threshold sometimes, but mostly stay below it and that is ok with me. So, I also expect spending to go up as the CBT threshold goes up. So, back to my question: How much are you thinking will be a meaningful budget for next season?
tff17
If they spend up to the first CBT level (leaving an appropriate margin for in-season moves) then that ought to be enough for now.
To build a competitive team this year, they might have needed to exceed that for a year. Next year should be easier, as more young talent comes up.
all in the suit that you wear
I agree with that. It depends on which site you believe, but Cot’s has the Red Sox at $224M CBT payroll now. The CBT threshold is $237M. So, they underspent by about $10M this year. I don’t think that is a big deal.
tff17
Right. So if they stay at that CBT level (which will mean replacing the salaries of Sale, Jansen, and others) then they should be fine in 2025. If they stay at the current active payroll (which is substantially lower) then they will again be squeezed for money. If they take advantage of expiring deals to cut the active payroll again, then they will have clear holes on the team next year.
GASoxFan
Suit, the cbt figure is not the same as the actual spending for 2024. It’s a distortion due to weightings of bonuses, front loaded contracts, etc etc etc.
*Actual* dollars on payroll, to include XBT penalties, are the true measure of how much the team is spending compared to what it takes in.
The team opened the year with an expected final figure to be at $174m including the cash going to sale, hosmer, etc.
The opening CBT number was 208m. Quite a disparity between money actually spent by the franchise.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1MHh7XnIvTvx1-6…
Yes, there were some additions and trades taking on salary. But not a huge amount.
If the sox aren’t actually spending to the tax limit around $230m, they’re being cheap. You can budget a cbt tax bill to be included in the $230m+ outlay. But if the sox aren’t cutting actual checks amounting to $230+m then they aren’t leveraging the power at their disposal, aka, not trying the way they should.
all in the suit that you wear
tff17: What expiring deals have the Red Sox used to cut payroll? They are consistently over $200M CBT payroll every year which is fine with me. I think that should be enough.
all in the suit that you wear
GA: I don’t see a problem with using CBT payroll. I think it is a good estimation of spending as it is a total of the average annual values of all player contracts and you need to pay attention to it because it affects luxury tax and future draft picks. You make it sound like it is a dirty trick to pay attention to CBT payroll.
all in the suit that you wear
The Red Sox CBT payroll per Cot’s:
2021: $207.6M – $2.4M below CBT tax threshold of $210M
2022: $236.1M – $6.1M over CBT tax threshold of $230M
2023: $225.7M – $7.3M below CBT tax threshold of $233M
2024: $224M – $13M below CBT tax threshold of $237M
The bottom line is the Red Sox are not making huge payroll cuts compared to the CBT threshold.
all in the suit that you wear
GA: How much would the Red Sox need to spend for you to stop complaining – actual and CBT? CBT cannot be ignored as it affects draft picks. Give me some numbers.
tff17
First, I’m not sure why you are exclusively focused on the CBT payroll? The active roster payroll reflects what they are spending to compete this year, and that has retreated by $35M over the last two years.
Second, it is a competitive league. Both their active payroll and their CBT payroll have slipped from 6th/5th to 12th. The Red Sox have a top five revenue stream, so spending less than the Blue Jays is an embarrassment.
As for free agents they haven’t replaced… Xander Bogaerts? Nate Eovaldi? Not saying they had to sign those exact players back, but did they pick up guys of similar quality or “go cheap”?
I agree that it makes sense to pay attention to the CBT payroll, but its purpose is to serve as a “soft” salary cap, not as a measure of the actual spending. This year’s CBT includes close to $20M for Sale. Care to explain how that one is contributing to being competitive in 2024?
Note also that the penalties for exceeding the first CBT level for. a single year are minimal. They could have gone over in 2024 and gotten back under in 2025 without major cost.
tff17
@GA, the CBT bill includes a chunk for benefits, so the number is never going to line up with payroll.
tff17
Uh… your data shows that they went from $6M over to $13M under in two years, and that doesn’t even account for Sale. That $20M in payroll is substantial.
Like I said above, it is the delta as much as the absolute amount. When you pull back on spending it makes it difficult to field a full competitive roster without holes. Most teams pull back on payroll when they aren’t competing and expand payroll in years that they are.
Your numbers do an excellent job of proving that the Red Sox did not intend to compete in 2024.
all in the suit that you wear
tff17: CBT payroll is more important in my opinion due to the penalties outlined here:
mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-…
Please explain the $35M retreat you mention.
all in the suit that you wear
they went from $6M over to $13M under in two years, and that doesn’t even account for Sale. That $20M in payroll is substantial
==============
Above you say “If they spend up to the first CBT level (leaving an appropriate margin for in-season moves) then that ought to be enough”. Now you are criticizing that them for cutting the $6M above the CBT threshold. You are not being consistent here. BTW, the $6M above the CBT threshold was likely a mistake by Bloom.
Your numbers do an excellent job of proving that the Red Sox did not intend to compete in 2024
==============
$20M does not make or break the outcome of a season in my opinion.
I think the Red Sox are trying something different. I think they are trying to build more from within than through signing free agents. This will result in lower payrolls.
tff17
The meaningful difference between your numbers and mine is Chris Sale. The Red Sox are paying his salary this year, which of course counts against the Red Sox CBT, but because he is not on their roster they had no chance to receive benefit from that.
The hope even at the time of the trade was that six years of Grissom would outweigh one year of Sale, not that Grissom would immediately outperform Sale. Trading veterans for prospects can make sense, but it is never a “win now” move.
To compete in 2024 they would have needed to exceed the CBT for one year to patch holes on the roster (as well as keeping Sale). Instead they chose to punt for one more year. They ought to be able to compete in 2025 merely by spending up to the CBT without going over. There are still holes on the roster, but fewer. Cot’s Contracts shows about $106M to work with, and while I think they need to fit a few arb 1 contracts into that, it should be PLENTY to fill their needs.
Hoping that they are willing to deploy this payroll on signings and extensions.
tff17
I agree, they are working on building a young core from within. That is key to winning. The next step is to extend your talent through their productive years, and part of the payroll should go towards that,
Still need to sign a SP ace (in addition to Giolito) and likely one more RP ace (in addition to Hendriks). They also need to sign or replace O’Neill or another RHH bat.
I am baffled that you seem to believe they were trying to compete in 2024?
Obviously the $$$ necessary to be competitive varies with the quantity of low cost talent available as well as the legacy contracts in place. It isn’t a fixed number and there is no reason to expect it to be a fixed number, so I see no reason to adopt a false consistency?
all in the suit that you wear
tff17: I don’t think we are far off from agreeing. I think and hope that the Red Sox are trying to spend more smartly rather than simply cutting the budget because they don’t care about competing.
tff17
Same. I will be badly disappointed if they don’t spend significantly this winter, though I’m hoping half goes to extensions for their young talent.
all in the suit that you wear
I can’t say for sure what the Red Sox were trying to do in 2024. I thinknthey are likely competing in a limited way – not trading prospects that they see as important parts of the future and not signing free agents who would block those prospects. They didn’t sell at the deadline, so I think they are competing to some degree. As more of the better prospects get to the Red Sox, I think they will get more in win-now mode.
I guess my main point in all of this is I don’t think the Red Sox are motivated by being cheap.
all in the suit that you wear
Agreed. They might be saving the majority of their cap space for signing their own young talent.
tff17
Well, they traded Sale (while eating his full salary) and signed Hendriks to a deal in the expectation that he will help in 2025. So from the start their 2024 efforts were less than “full throttle”.
To be honest, it is those foolish comments from Werner and Kennedy about being competitive that worry me more than anything. If they had said, “This isn’t yet the team we envision in a year or two,” then I might agree and have some faith in plan. But if they truly see 2024 as “full throttle” then that implies expectations that are well below mine.
Might have been 2020 that I targeted 2025 as the next window of contention, based on contract situations and the need to advance enough talent through the system and get it established in the majors, The emergence of Duran and Houck are all that made 2024 realistic in the first place, it would have been a stretch without them blossoming as they did. Expect a heavy wave of talent to hit the majors next year.
all in the suit that you wear
I don’t get too excited one way or the other about what the owners say. I think they are like politicians. I just wait to see what happens.
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – True about Houck, but he would have needed time to be stretched out converting from short reliever to starting pitcher ….. almost guaranteed he wouldn’t have had the same success.
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – I’m thankfully not seeing who started this discussion on payroll, but you and GASox are 100% correct. How anyone can even attempt to distort the facts is both comical and pathetic.
Red Sox have the 4th-highest revenue in MLB and the 12th-highest payroll in MLB.
And their payroll is the lowest it’s been since 2014.
Anybody who is content with those facts cannot be a real Sox fan.
all in the suit that you wear
Only a troll such as Fever Pitch Guy would reach a conclusion about something he cannot read and insult someone.
GASoxFan
Suit:
The numbers I’d like to see will change from year to year as the CBT line goes up. That said, the level I expect the team to spend is this:
In 2024 the cbt line was 237M. You can go up to $40m over and pay purely a financial penalty, no draft pick hit.
So, I’d like to see an opening day figure of $265M leaving $12m in trade deadline wiggle room.
Buy a mix of players that help you win now, some rebound candidates for depth you can trade if you’re not expecting to contend, and, each year buy a bad contract or few that only have one season left remaining on them where you can extract a prospect price or at least a decent bullpen arm or something, then release the player on the bad deal.
Teams like Tampa, Pitt, etc get comp picks that are the equivalent of late 1st or early 2nd round free prospects and bonus pools every year. They use them to their advantage.
Boston is a top revenue team in baseball.
It needs to leverage *that* advantage. Doing otherwise is malfeasance. Depending how things work out, you can dip down from time to time and reset your CBT figure, and that’s acceptable.
What’s not acceptable is being cheap on payroll, squandering your competitive advantage, then fleecing the club of funds to speculate on golf merchandising rights.
all in the suit that you wear
GA: I’m not sure you are thinking long-term. You need a plan to reset the luxury tax by getting under the threshold at some point. You also need to plan to sign your own young players. You may be right, but I am not sure. As someone else said, if you are spending $200M and not winning, the spending level is not the problem. I think Breslow is rearranging how their money is spent, but they will need to wait for bad contracts such as Story’s and Yoshida’s to expire before they can really spend well. I don’t think they will will ever sign a free agent over 30 to a long, expensive contract again. I think they will only sign younger players to long contracts.
all in the suit that you wear
GA: To summarize my points in this conversation:
1. I think the Red Sox are trying to spend smartly, not cheaply. I think they will build from within more than signing older free agents to long, expensive contracts that often go bad. I think they have learned their lesson with the Sale, Story and Yoshida contracts. They may sign a younger player, such as Devers, to a long expensive deal.
2. I am not against going over the luxury tax threshold, but it has to be for contracts that make sense. I think it does not make sense for older free agents as I said above. Pitchers in particular seem very risky. Yamamoto, Montgomery and ERod were not bad contracts this past offseason. The Rodon contract from last offseason also looks bad. Signing players to bad contracts is also malfeasance, to use your word.
GASoxFan
Suit, here’s the piece of what I said you’re missing.
If you buy ‘bad’ contracts in their final year to give salary relief to lower earning clubs, you get some compensation – prospect, bullpen arm, heck, you can even trade for the lesser desirable (but still good) comp round B draft pick! The contract you took may have 18m on it, but it’s a one time hit and you release the player. It doesn’t impact your CBT figures for the next season and ongoing.
So, take this season where they opened 30 million below the CBT threshold. And it was pretty clear as well that most of that would not be used or usable for mid-season pickups.
Even without breaching the cbt, which, is fine to add even another 40 million on top this season BTW, they *couldve* used that money to buy an asset for the club – intl bonus money, comp draft pick, minor leaguer, even bullpen or bench role player.
Instead Henry pocketed more cash, and, the red sox did not get the asset to improve in the future.
all in the suit that you wear
GA: I see what you are saying. I guess I overlooked it because most people are not talking about that when they call the Red Sox cheap. The Red Sox could do those things if there are trade partners they match up with, but they may not always be there. So, you are assuming the Red Sox could have done something that maybe they could not have done. I don’t think that is fair. They have recently taken on JBJ’s contract to get two prospects and they ate money on Sale’s contract to get Grissom. I still remain unconvinced that the Red Sox decided to go cheap. I think they are trying to spend in a smarter, lower risk way.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Another guy that’s likely better than Lucas Sims
manfraud
Anthony Gose is begging to be claimed
Bruin1012
Roman Anthony hits a crush job at Norfolk in extras an absolute bomb out GoPro the stadium then a couple batters later they tried to crowd Campbell with a fastball inside and hits his second homer of the game. I knew that Anthony was special but now Campbell his first homer of the game looked like a pop up to the centerfielder and it just kept carrying and here’s the thing the wind wasn’t blowing out you can’t pitch that guy away you can’t pitch him in he’s incredible. Anthony led off in extras and they tried to sneak a fastball by him big mistake he murdered that pitch. Special hitters.
all in the suit that you wear
Bruin: Well said. What is your take on Bleis this year?
Bruin1012
All not real sure what to think about Miguel Bleis. His swing decisions aren’t good still he has incredible bat speed very rotational trunk speed. He’s getting babip to death right now but he also pops the ball up all the time. I think next year is very important for him. The guy I’m most concerned about is Nazzan Zanatello he’s striking out at over a 40% clip but it’s the way he’s striking out. He’s swinging and missing on fastballs right down the middle it’s very concerning. At this point I have a hard time seeing him do anything he’s just lost at the plate. Both Bleies and Zanatello have had very disappointing seasons but I think Bleis could turn it around I’m not nearly as confident Zanatello can it’s very early and he’s young but it’s time for the Red Sox to be very concerned about Nazzan Zanatello.
all in the suit that you wear
Bruin: Agreed that Bleis is confounding. I’m not expecting much from Zanatello at this point after all I keep hearing. Hopefully they figure it out.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – Roman is going to lead to the trading of either Duran or Abreu, it’s inevitable. Let’s hope whichever one gets traded turns out to be the right move.
GASoxFan
Fever – I’d hope you mis-spelled ‘Yoshida’…
Picture this, an OF mix plus DH rotated between Ceddane, Abreu, Anthony, and Duran. DH days to keep the legs fresh and reduce wear and tear over the season grind, and, eliminate the need for a traditional 4th OF. Then get some IF depth and late game defensive upgrade instead.
I’m not sold on Marcello being a healthy everyday player year in and out, but, Campbell would help up the middle for sure.
And you know I was down on Grissom at the time of the trade due to poor defensive play I saw locally in the past.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Yoshida will never be in the OF mix, and I don’t see the Red Sox devaluing any of Abreu/Duran/Rafaela/Anthony by having them DH for 25% or more of the season.
I’m not sure how good Anthony is defensively, but no way you want a GG caliber fielder like Duran spending 40+ games at DH, and the same for Abreu & Rafaela.
Also look at it this way, they would need to trade one of those four guys to get a top young cost-controlled SP. No chance Pittsburgh, Seattle, Miami or Detroit would take Yoshida for one of their good young pitchers.
If you could get Skubal for instance, you would definitely have to part with Anthony or Duran or Abreu.
tff17
Anthony is an adequate CF, but really belongs in RF. He should be a plus defender there.
GASoxFan
Fever, if your goal is to put together the best product and best lineup, you’re not worried about ‘devaluing’ a guy by giving him some DH days. Heck, if you want to look that route, if anything it’d save them money over compounded arb raises ever so slightly.
And, as we’ve seen, the odds of expecting 4 guys to remain injury free over the course of the season are not great. Likely you’re talking a dozen or two dh slots a year by the time you cover off-days and injuries, if that.
I’d rather a strong hitter wasting plus defense a dozen games than bouncing that level of depth out of the system.
A guy like skubal takes so much capital, you’re talking MUCH more than headlining a deal with Anthony or Duran or Abreu. The ask would be more along one of those three, PLUS a Campbell/Mayer, PLUS 2 more org top-25 prospects, and even then probably asking for an a-ball level arm or some minor lottery ticket as well. Simply put, I dont see it as being a worthwhile trade. The prospect capital isn’t worth it for a guy you know Henry won’t open the checkbook to extend.
The idea of moving Yoshida isn’t that he buys a young #1 SP, it’s to get rid of Yoshida and a portion of his contract. At some point you’ve got to crack open the checkbook and get a FA SP. It’s that simple. The savings on young controllable position players allow you to do that.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – How would the best lineup be one that includes Duran at DH for 40+ games?
I’m open to a Yoshida trade, but I would need to know specifics. Sounds like you want him to be just another salary dump. They are already paying $17M for Sale to win the Cy with another team, I don’t want them paying Yoshida to win a batting title with another team too. His offense has been invaluable ever since his wrist fully healed, to give that away for a mere $10M or less in annual savings doesn’t make sense. Plus he’s still eligible for one year of arbitration.
GASoxFan
Fever – to me its pretty simple.
Who is the better player, Abreu or Yoshida?
Who is the better player, Duran or Yoshida?
I’d ask the same of Anthony or Rafaela, but, I think it’s reasonable to assume both stay put regardless.
So, back to the other two, who hits more HRs and 2Bs, let alone 3Bs? You’ll find Yoshida loses to both.
Who has defensive versatility and can play the field and cover injuries? Not Yoshida.
Who is younger, and presumably healthier? Again, Yoshida comes in 3rd.
All around if you needed to subtract one of the three, the team is better if the one who goes is Yoshida, especially considering neither of the other two is getting you what you want – a young controllable stud SP1 – without overpaying additional prospects that just don’t make sense to part with at the prices teams want for young talented pitching.
You can’t keep everyone. Yoshida is a round peg in a square hole because he can’t run bases well and can’t play defense well. He hits for average with lackluster power for a pure DH.
I don’t see anything in Yoshida that screams batting title either.
tff17
On the other hand, players get injured. I don’t think it is a problem to carry four quality OFs in addition to Yoshida as a DH. They can’t all be in the lineup at the same time, but there are 648 starts to go around in addition to PH appearances. That falls under the category of “good problem to have”.
A team with playoff aspirations needs to have quality depth to cover for injuries.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Those are vague questions, I will try to answer them best I can.
Abreu is obviously the better all-around player, but Yoshida is the better hitter with the more established track record. He at least has an OPS over .700 vs LHP, while Abreu has been basically useless with just a .492 OPS against LHP. Maybe it’s Cora’s fault for not allowing Abreu the opportunity to improve against LHP, hard to say.
Duran is a no-brainer, even though he’s got worse numbers vs LHP his speed makes up for it.
Agree with you on Rafaela, that’s why I didn’t include him. His ability to also play shortstop along with his cheap team control makes him too valuable for the Red Sox to trade. My question for you, if the Tigers offered Skubal straight up for Rafaela …. would you do it? Not that they ever would make that offer.
As for Anthony …. never say never. Remember, Moncada was the #1 prospect in all MLB, and he was PACKAGED with other prospects for Sale.
Yes, without question Yoshida can’t hit for power as well as the others.
Health-wise, all three have had injury issues. The fact he DOESN’T play a position, let alone recklessly the way Abreu and Duran do, makes Yoshida more likely to stay healthy. Basically he will stay healthy as long as he doesn’t get hit by pitches. Meanwhile you saw Duran’s faceplant into the Monster yesterday, and you saw Abreu’s penchant for diving over walls, so I definitely would NOT assume good health for either Duran or Abreu.
You think Yoshida’s advanced age (31) works against him, but actually it works in his favor. As much as I love Abreu, 128 career games is not enough to feel comfortable with. Same with Duran, he hit just .238 with a .696 OPS in the second half last year ….. let’s see him string together more than one good full season before assuming he’s not another Ellsbury-ish fade candidate. Just because the fan in me believes both Abreu and Duran will have very good careers, it doesn’t mean I am certain they will. Logic always prevails with me.
But my point has always been, moving Yoshida does NOT free up the likely logjam in the outfield because those four outfielders are way too young to relegate down to platoon duty. Sure it would be nice to have all four available in case one or more sustains a longterm injury, but at their ages if you need to plan for injuries then you’re better off trading them first.
As for not seeing anything that hints at batting title …. do you not realize in the past two months (since June 24, after his wrist issue became a non-factor) he is batting .337 with a .930 OPS!!! And remember, this is a guy who has played in only 220 career MLB games.
And this is also a guy who during his entire 7-year professional career at Japan’s highest level hit .326 with a .957 OPS. The guy can flat-out hit no matter what country he’s playing in.
We saw it last year when he batted .345 with a .942 OPS for a 3-month period, and we are seeing it now with the aforementioned .337 BA over the past two months.
I know you don’t like the guy (because of Bloom?) and nothing will change that, but as long as he’s playing for our team why not kick back and enjoy the Japanese Laser Show ;O)
tff17
Not inconceivable that they play Abreu/Duran/Anthony across the outfield, though I agree with TF that Abreu is reasonable trade bait.
Not sure about Story (depends how he is aging), but Rafaela might be the best defensive SS in the system at this point. He has been average/plus over the last couple months and is still improving.
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – It’s great that Rafaela can play SS, but his longterm future is CF without question. We saw the reasons again last night, making a costly error that contributed to Bello’s implosion.
If forced to wager, I’d say Duran is the one most likely to be traded. He has the most proven value right now, he’s a lot older than the others, he’s been good for only less than 2 seasons, he has the history of emotional issues, and his game is 100% driven by his legs which tend to diminish over time. Lots of people see 2024 Duran as a carbon copy of 2011 Ellsbury, and we all know how HIS career played out.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want Duran going anywhere … but from a business perspective, he seems to be the logical odd man out.
I have to ask, you’re big into analytics ….. so why are you disregarding how bad Rafaela’s defensive stats are at SS?
Can’t have it both ways my friend, either defensive analytics are reliable or they are not.
tff17
What makes you think I’m rejecting defensive analytics?
Rafaela’s defensive metrics are average/plus since July 3 (a date that I happen to have bookmrked). He was truly struggling over the first month, but settled down nicely.
Duran is a really good player. I can see how a trade makes sense from a roster construction standpoint, but he is a REALLY good player. Very tough to get value when trading a player that good. More likely we would end up with Verdugo and Wong.
Would it be so awful to let Duran play out his arbitration years and then walk? I would prefer to sign him to a five year deal this winter, if one can be made to work, but it would be very tough to trade away three years of peak production.
tff17
“Anthony is the LF, Duran the CF and Rafaela the RF”
That would be incredible OF defense, for sure!
Duran is old enough that buying out six free agent seasons is probably not a smart move. I think if he is going to get a long term deal it needs to happen now, else the equation on his side shifts towards playing out the string and ripping somebody off in free agency.
You are right, Duran will be a 2+ arb candidate this winter. So a six year deal would guarantee his four arbitration years and buy out two years of free agency, taking him through his age 33 season.
Even All-Stars fall off. The top players who were age 27 in 2018 were Arenado, Haniger, Realmuto, Chris Taylor, Inciarte, and Piscotty.
Six years later, in 2024, at the age of 33, only one of those six has enough PA to qualify for the batting title. Arenado is decent, but his last elite season was 2022 at the age of 31. Realmuto is fading, his last great season was in 2022 at the age of 31. Haniger’s career was a flash in the pan, he has been disappointing since 2021 at the age of 30. Chris Taylor was good through the age of 30.
HOF players might age better than most, but of course that is part of what makes them HOF players. Not sure I would put Duran in that boat yet? The large majority of other players are toast in their early 30s.
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – Here’s a couple great sources that show Rafaela is near the bottom in MLB for shortstop defense:
baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/fielding-run-va…
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&sea…
I know you want to disregard pre-July, but Savant doesn’t offer Custom Date Range and Fangraphs usually does but for some reason it’s not allowed here? Not sure why, but regardless for minimum 500 innings Rafaela ranks as the 2nd-worst shortstop in all of MLB.
I get why you think he’s a great shortstop, I watch every game and I know the announcers are always hyping him on every play. Sure he makes some great plays, just like most MLB shortstops do, but he botches too many routine plays. His UZR (Ultimate Zone Rating) is 4th-worst in MLB and his DRS (Defensive Runs Saved) is not much better at 6th-worst in MLB. His OAA (Outs Above Average) is 2nd-worst in all of MLB.. It also makes it harder for Devers because he has to cover a lot more ground due to Rafaela’s lack of range.
Sure Rafaela is young and could improve enough to be an average SS someday, like Devers improved over time, but it will be harder for Rafaela if he continues to play CF.
That’s what Cora doesn’t understand, a player cannot improve that much if he’s splitting his time in the field at different positions. It’s just common sense.
I disagree on Duran, he’s on pace for a 10 WAR season …. do you realize how rare that is? He’s the 4th-most valuable player in all MLB!!! When players are that good, teams will happily overpay because it’s so rare for 10-WAR players to become available …. especially players that young and with that many years of team control remaining.
I’m with you though, I’d rather the Sox keep him and then sign him to an extension a year before he hits free agency. I would trade him only when he has just a year of team control remaining, and only if an extension won’t happen. It crushed me to see Mookie leave, I don’t want to go through that again with Duran.
tff17
I realize that Statcast doesn’t allow splits on their defensive data, so I bookmark players/dates periodically. Happened to have July 3 recorded, at which point Rafaela was -8 OAA, -6 FRV as a shortstop.
As of today he is -8 OAA, -6 FRV. That implies that he is +0/+0 over the last six weeks. A small sample, sure, but given his inexperience at the position I’m a lot more interested in where he ends up than where he started. I agree he was awful for the first month or two.
tff17
As for Duran… What pitcher do you expect will turn in a +10 WAR next year? Pitching is so unpredictable, so variable, so injury prone. How are you going to get value?
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – Oh I totally agree, I don’t support trading a young cost controlled star position player for a pitcher …. not with the way pitchers are so volatile and injury prone.
Fever Pitch Guy
tff – Did you get a chance to watch the game yesterday?
Papelbon was in the announcer booth, and both he and Youk were slamming Rafaela for not taking an easy HBP in the 9th.
They also slammed Wong for his poor defense, especially failing to block pitches.
They also talked about how bad the Red Sox are with RISP.
Did you know they are one of only two teams in MLB to not have a grand slam this season? Not even I realized that! (Arizona has the most with 9)
They also slammed Rafaela for being selfish with all the free-swinging strikeouts, and they pointed out how he should be shortening his swing and aiming the ball through infield gaps to help the team.
The Red Sox have the most strikeouts in MLB with RISP, that’s definitely something they need to work on.
GASoxFan
Fever – the Red Sox are also *third* in all of mlb in overall strikeouts. The fact they lead in them with RISP is just a testament to overall getting guys on base.
It’s not a situational hitting problem, it’s a strikeout overall problem
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Ehhhh ….. 17th in both BA & OBP with RISP, not very good especially considering the fact they do have several good overall hitters.
BTW – On today’s pregame Papelbon proved he’s one of the dumbest players in Sox history … unless he’s under the influence of something.
He was truly CONVINCED that Danny would be playing for the Jays tomorrow in the suspended game. He was NOT joking at all. This after yesterday when he called Kutter “Carl”, he compared Abreu’s skin color to Trot Nixon, he chastised Youk for not using a Jewish agent, and he called out Wong to “catch like a man”.
Don’t get me wrong, I have always loved Pap for his talent and entertainment value, and he does get it right sometimes like when he called out Rafaela yesterday …. but damn he’s the prototypical dumb jock Stifler. I’d be surprised if he is back in the in-game booth anytime soon.
GASoxFan
Fever, unfortunately, there’s a lot of people in broadcast booths that don’t belong there.
BTW, what’s your thoughts on Felix having been suspended for PEDs? I don’t recall seeing a thread on here about it.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – I don’t know much about the kid, but honestly not surprised. Hate to say it, but basically any young pitcher from the DR there’s always a chance they are using. Praying that Bello never gets suspended for it, hopefully he’s staying clean.
Hey it’s been a while, got any positive updates on your situation that you wouldn’t mind sharing? As they say no news is good news, hoping that’s the case here.
GASoxFan
Not in this case Fever. I lost 32 pounds since 4th of july, and, I was a Chris Sale build to start with. Wife said she was sick of needing to think about someone else before choosing to do or not do certain things and took off with the 496 4×4. 15 years doesn’t mean much these days when you disregard the whole sickness and health vow.
For all the issues they’ve got, these Sox are my one bright spot at the moment. I even debated going to tomorrow’s games (!?!?!?!?!) after my morning oncology appointment.
I don’t expect a WC, but, I’m enjoying seeing the kids do what they do and a front office that does *something* to try even if the greenness and wet-behind-the-ears shows.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Oh man, my jaw just dropped …. I am so sorry to hear both those things. Is the weight loss because of a lack of appetite, or you just can’t keep the pounds on no matter how much you eat? As for the other thing, I can’t say what I want to say without having my post removed …. loyalty and devotion is a huge, huge thing with me …. not sure if you ever saw the signs early on of her being a “good times only” type gal, but either way she has at least earned the “Lackey” nickname.
If you can, go to the suspended game! Be there for history! There will probably be a ton of good seats available too.
I just left Boston a few days ago, went there mostly for Fisherman’s Feast. Hopefully you have a chance to spend some time in the North End, it’s one of my favorite sections.
Even though the Sox didn’t win 5 of 10 like I wanted, I still think they can make up a lot of ground very quickly. However Cora has to get his head out of his butt, like pinch hitting for Gasper when the game is still within reach.
Hopefully Cora is smart enough to play Danny in ALL FIVE Toronto games, either as catcher or DH. Because catchers always have a huge advantage when facing pitchers they’ve caught.
B dog 351
Troll: spot on Duran! He is the real deal. Butt remember Abreu is a Cora favorite. Even big brother Joey approves of Abreu. Hopefully it doesn’t happen but I can totally see them keeping Abreu over Duran
Bruin1012
The Red Sox farm system is very healthy from top to bottom. It’s to early to see what Breslow’s picks will be. Sure his first round pick is touted as a steal but it’s too early to really know.
When we look at really good farm systems over the last several years there are two types. The Orioles have benefited from consistently really high draft picks this is a classic tanking team scenario. It’s much more likely you will draft impact players if you’re constantly drafting in the top 3 of the draft.
The other way is what the Dodgers and Rays do and that is build the farm with a bunch of 40’s and 45’s. These teams are building very deep farm systems but in order to do that you have to have a great development team in place and those teams develop players great. It’s not a stretch to say, while Boston has developed many good offensive players, the pitching hasn’t been developed on anywhere near the level that hitting has. This will hopefully change under Breslow and his pitching lab.
The thing I see with this farm is how deep it is in the 40 and 45 level prospects. When you have so many of those types naturally a few will take off and really develop it’s what happens with the Rays and the Dodgers they seem to have a never ending amount of guys who can step in that’s because the have a deep farm system.
The Red Sox have a deep farm system. They have multiple guys at every level that are very intriguing prospects. The top 10 in the farm is excellent but the next 20 are very intriguing prospects in their own right. It’s a farm system that at the very least is trending up. The cool thing is when you have such a deep farm system it’s a lot easier to trade for things you need and know that you just reload. The Dodgers are a perfect example of this.
Breslow has already done this when he traded Yorke for Priester. The Red Sox need big league or very near big league ready arms so they traded a very solid prospect Yorke who by the way is continuing to rake at Indianapolis for Priester. Even though Yorke imo is very likely to be an impact big league second baseman or maybe left fielder he was redundant. 2nd base is going to be Campbell he has surpassed Grissom and he’s the future at 2nd. Despite of him playing shortstop he’s not a shortstop and if you watch a few games you will know why. Still he’s a hitting savant and he’s the second baseman of the future.
I look for the potential impact arms to start to arrive in Portland next year and for more guys to continue to breakout. I really want to see Cespedes in person next year he’s done nothing but rake at every level so far it’s a shame he got injured and couldn’t team up with Arias. I really look forward to watching Mikey Romero having hopefully a full healthy season next year at AA Portland he’s absolutely been terrifying high A pitchers for two months now and there’s at least a half dozen other guys that I think can break out next year. Johanfran Garcia is another one to watch closely he’s the younger brother of “the password”. I wonder if he has a cool nickname as well.
I could go on and on but suffice it to say I’m very excited to watch the direction this farm and this organization goes under the Breslow regime.
tff17
Mind clarifying on Campbell’s defense, Bruin? Not disagreeing, just would love to know what you are seeing.
Could Rafaela be the future at shortstop? In just a few months he has already made great progress defensively, and Duran is just as good in CF. Almost as good, at least.
I’ve also seen Campbell mentioned as a potential CF, though they seem to be focusing on the IF for now.
Bruin1012
Sure tff I’ll clarify. Based on what I have seen he has very limited range at short he has poor footwork and instincts for the position. His arm is ok nothing special. He’s a good athlete but he’s no Rafaela who could be a very good defensive shortstop if that’s all he concentrated on. I think the Red Sox have a short term and a long term need at second base and I think it’s very likely he is the starting 2nd baseman some time next year if not out of spring training. He has certainly surpassed Vaughn Grissom and if he continues to take at AAA. I guess there is a non zero chance due to his athleticism that he can adjust at short but you can’t just look at errors and say this guy is better then that guy it’s a very poor way to judge unless you actually watch the guy.
tff17
Oh totally agree, errors tell you nothing about a guy’s range. But I’m not great at judging range from video, and I don’t have much opportunity to see them in person. Thanks for the feedback!
Am I wrong to believe that Rafaela is already a better defender than Mayer? I’m really liking the sound of “very good defensive shortstop”, and I’m not confident Mayer’s ceiling is that high. Thinking Mayer would be strong defensively at 3B, and might have the bat to carry the position?
Bruin1012
Mayer is the shortstop of the future. He’s very smooth at short, good range, strong arm but he does bounce some throws and make some careless errors. I do think Rafaela can be a very good shortstop if he only concentrated at that position he’s so valuable in center and a true difference maker at that position. Indo think Abreu, even though he has been excellent is the odd man out, that’s not a dig at Abreu I just think Anthony is truly special and will man right field for Boston for the next several years.
Bruin1012
The biggest concern I have about Mayer is injury history.
Claydagoat
I have to say, the farm system is why I had ZERO issue with how the Red Sox played things out this past offseason. Next few years will be fun.
tff17
Yes, Campbell is clearly a gifted offensive player, possibly the most talented pure hitter we’ve seen since Betts. I’ve been trying to get a handle on his defensive abilities, which is tricky for minor leaguers. Errors don’t tell you much. From what I’ve heard, his athleticism is a good fit for either 2B or CF. Thinking I could live with that?
Of course SS could be even better, but I’m not greedy.
Bruin1012
Biased thats like the pot calling the kettle black. You are without a doubt KD the most biased poster I have ever seen on this site and it’s not even close.
How do you know that Campbell’s defense is “so much better” defensively than Mayer. I’m willing to bet you haven’t watched one inning of Campbell at short I know you haven’t. You probably have never watched one inning of Mayer at short but you spout nonsense based on a statistic you read in rotowire. You look at one error at short versus 10 errors and pronounce the guy with 10 is bad the guy with one is good. It’s such a ridiculous way to look at defense.
What if I told you player A gets to all the balls to his right to his left and has strong shortstop arm he makes errors because he gets to so many balls and throws off balance throws skips some throws in the dirt to a subpar defensive first baseman a lot of the time. You have player B who doesn’t get to the balls has poor defensive instincts at the position seems stiff at that position but he only has one error at the position. I ask you who is the better defender at the position.
Look I don’t just blindly listen to what I hear or blindly look at stats and I don’t think you can especially when evaluating a prospect. Look there is no question that Campbell can hit but they are searching for a position for him he’s been a utility guy in the minors. He is a good athlete and maybe he could be a shortstop with a lot of off-season work he plays at short right now but he’s not a shortstop.
As for a blanket statement by a guy who has never watched Mayer play the position probably one play I’ll tell you what I’ll take the expert opinions of talent evaluators like scouts who say he is at least average probably better then average that also corresponds with the eye test over a someone that looks at a stat and declares he’s bad. I have not heard one scout or prospect evaluator say that he’s a bad defender at short what I have heard is there is concern he could grow out of the position if he gets to big and it slows him down athletically but sure spread your nonsense base on nothing other then a stat on a page.
Bruin1012
Troll I take no liberties I actually watch the games I love watching baseball. You simply look at a stat a make a statement. It’s a horrible way to evaluate minor league talent especially defensively. When you actually watch these games and have an educated opinion other than regurgitation then get back to me. I suggest you actually watch the players you spouting about. Especially when the experts are saying something else. I guess you think that you know more than scouts and talent evaluators by a stat you read on a page. I love it when idiots question guys like Law and say so and so is hitting .300 and he’s really good and you don’t know what your talking about and he simply says don’t scout the stat line. Come back to me when you watch them and understand why Niko Kavadas was never going to be the hitter Casas was despite at times having better offensive numbers in the minors or why Michael Chavis isn’t better then Rafael Devers even though a certain someone was trying to argue he needs to get his shot.
Occams_hairbrush
KD is a troll. Mute him and stop wasting your time.
Bruin1012
Yes they do lie I can’t help you anymore keep showing the fool are but your a waste of time and I will no longer waste my time on a fool.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – Thank you, that’s exactly what I’ve been saying about Rafaela at shortstop.
Bruin1012
The converse is true of Roman Anthony who continues to surprise and impress defensively. His speed has surprised as well. He looks more and more like the Right Fielder of the future. The only thing that Abreu may have on Anthony is his arm but Anthony’s arm is still plenty good and should be fine even the expansive right field at Fenway.
acell10
so KD 17 watches one exhibition game and claims to be an expert on Mayer. How pathetic. no facts have been discredited because none have been presented by him. And he has no idea to how to interpret numbers. He just misuses whatever numbers allegedly support his point. it’s the same thing over an over again.
Bruin1012
Anthony goes yard again to lead off the game for Worcester not an Anthony bomb but more of line drive that got over the fence in right. What a talent he is.
tff17
Apparently he missed the memo that AAA is supposed to challenge a raw 20 year old prospect.
Bruin1012
Campbell just made an outstanding play at short very impressive.
Bruin1012
Ttff Juan Valera looked really in Salem his fastball was mostly at 97 with a nice slider and decent change. I’m not real sure how much projection he has he is 18 but looks filled out. Still he’s a really nice looking pitching prospect. He’s very young and they are obviously limiting his innings but still gotta like the stuff and the results.
tff17
Would one of those blasts be a “Roman Candle”?
AL34
This team is done this year. The unfortunate part is you have a 5th rate GM Spendlow Breslow and an owner in Cheap Mode because he figures he accomplished everything and can now take profits and put them into his other ventures. It is an effort for their pitchers to go more than 5 innings, and you are asking the bullpen to get 9-12 outs a nights. You just burn the bullpen out ever night. You have an owner who is in cheap mode looking to bring up all players from the minor leagues. This team cannot develop pitching. You can bring up players but you have to either trade for pitching or sign quality free agents. You have a GM here because no one wanted the job because of how they treated Dombroski. Bloom screwed this team up with bad trades, especially Mookie Betts and bad signings, STORY stand out. I don’t have too much confidence in Breslow’s trading ability and his ability to sign quality free agents. How you picked up Paxton, who is as fragile as glass and expected him to help this year amazes me. Unbelievable! Well, this year is the first time they have been competitive in 4 years now.
Fever Pitch Guy
Al – 3 years ago they went to the ALCS.
And right now they have a worse record than last year, so if they weren’t competitive last year they sure as heck aren’t this year.
But they could conceivably be just 2.5 games out tomorrow night, that’s how crappy the rest of the league is. The Twins and Royals don’t exactly scare me, and they’ve had the huge benefit of playing the ChiSox 13 times a year.
Seattle is a mess and Tampa gave up a month ago. Sox can still get in, as long as they take care of business against the Jays, Tigers and White Sox.