The Red Sox placed infielder David Hamilton on the 10-day injured list yesterday due to a left index finger fracture, which he suffered on a bunt single the day before. He told reporters that the timetable would be four to six weeks but that he’s hoping to get that down to two to three weeks, which would be based on his pain tolerance. Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic was among those who relayed the info on X.
The Sox have had a rotating cast of characters covering second base this year. They had planned on giving the gig to Vaughn Grissom after acquiring him from Atlanta for Chris Sale in the winter. But Grissom has been injured or struggling for most of the year, which opened the spot for others. Apart from Grissom, ten different players have seen at least a bit of action at the keystone for Boston this year.
No one really took hold of the job but Hamilton arguably performed the best of the group. His .248/.303/.395 batting line this year only translates to a 91 wRC+, indicating he’s been 9% below average, but he’s stolen 33 bases in 37 tries and has played both middle infield positions. His work at shortstop hasn’t been graded well but he has nine Defensive Runs Saved and three Outs Above Average at second. Overall, FanGraphs considers him to have been worth 1.6 wins above replacement on the year.
He may not get a chance to alter those numbers in the wake of his injury. The four-to-six-week timeline would essentially wipe out his regular season at this point. Even if he has a chance to come back quicker, that would probably require the Sox to stay in the race. They are currently 3.5 games back of a playoff spot. If they fall back in the coming weeks, there wouldn’t be much point in rushing Hamilton back before he’s 100% healthy.
For now, the Sox will likely keep the carousel of players going through the keystone, with Nick Sogard, Romy González and Mickey Gasper some of the options on the roster. Perhaps they will recall Grissom at some point, though he’s currently getting regular playing time at Triple-A Worcester.
Another X-factor in the club’s middle infield plans will be Trevor Story, who is trying to return to the club before the season is done. He has been trying to come back from April shoulder surgery that was initially thought to be season-ending and tells Rob Bradford of WEEI (X link) that a rehab assignment will be his next step, though he didn’t provide a specific date for starting that rehab.
Even if Story does return to the Sox this year, it’s anyone’s guess what form he will be in. The Sox signed him to a six-year, $140MM deal going into 2022 but haven’t received much on that investment yet. He has missed significant time due to various ailments, including this year’s shoulder surgery and last year’s elbow surgery. He has only appeared in 145 games for the Sox since signing that deal and has hit just .227/.288/.394 in his 598 plate appearances.
It’s fair to conclude that the lack of health has played a big role in tamping down his production, but that also means there might still be some rust if he returns to the club in the next few weeks. Still, it could be good for the long term if he gets some playing time under his feet before the winter. He’s still a big part of the club’s future, with three years remaining on that deal. Ceddanne Rafaela has been playing shortstop of late but he’s not hitting much and still has options. He could be sent down to the minors or perhaps be bumped into a utility role since he’s also a capable outfielder.
Turning to the pitching staff, right-hander Liam Hendriks could be back in the majors soon. The righty underwent Tommy John surgery last year but has started a rehab assignment and made four appearances in the minors this month. He tells Alex Speier of The Boston Globe that he’s targeting a return next weekend.
Now 35, Hendriks has been on quite a tumultuous journey in recent years. He missed the start of the 2023 season while dealing with a diagnosis of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. After beating cancer, he returned to the mound with the White Sox but only made five appearances before requiring the aforementioned surgery. The Sox signed him in the offseason to a two-year deal with a $10MM guarantee and another $10MM in incentives, knowing that they probably wouldn’t get much out of the righty in the first season.
That was a logical step for the Sox as Hendriks was dominant prior to this odyssey. From 2019 to 2022, he made 226 appearances with a 2.26 earned run average, 38.8% strikeout rate and 5.1% walk rate. On top of that, both Kenley Jansen and Chris Martin are set to hit free agency after 2024, so signing Hendriks in the winter was a preemptive move to address the 2025 bullpen ahead of schedule.
It’s also possible that Martin could be back. He tells the Baseball Isn’t Boring podcast (X link) that he’s planning on pitching again next year, in what would be his age-39 season, as long as he feels good through the end of the current campaign. He also spoke positively of the Red Sox organization and seemed open to a return.
Martin and the Sox signed a two-year, $17.5MM deal heading into 2023. He has thrown 86 2/3 innings over the course of that deal with a 1.77 ERA, 25.1% strikeout rate, 48.1% ground ball rate and tiny 2.9% walk rate. Given the continued strong results, he figures to get strong interest from the Sox or any other club around the league if he wants to keep his career going.
Spoiled red Sox fans in 3,2,1…
No way Rafaela goes to Worcester.
let – If it means giving Campbell or Anthony a taste of the majors, I say yes send down Rafaela. Clearly his hitting hasn’t improved, maybe he can find his stroke in Worcester.
Fever- He’s never going to fix his swing until he stops swing, consistently at anything a foot outside.
That said? I.m not in favor of demoting him, rather him in CF and Duran moving to LF with O’Neil on the bench until he’s somewhere else next season.
Grissom it’s time to either cut bait with this coming offseason rather than trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Too many capable middle IF as it is and he’s just another. They won’t be able to move Story and his 3/75m (and 5m buyout). Try and get anything at all for Grissom, then look at Campbell/Mayer/meidroth/Sogard/Hamilton for SS/2b next year. Those guys listed at least accomplished something positive in ’24.
john – Having a GG outfielder start in LF at Fenway every game just seems like such a waste of talent, that’s my biggest issue with keeping Rafaela in CF. But if Duran is traded this offseason, then I’m in agreement with you.
No way CR gets sent down. My out of the box suggestion is if/when Story is ready, he goes back to second which is an easier position to ease into. One where he previously excelled at.
dewey – Why? Story went back to SS last year and did very well defensively.
If you have a guy who excels at both middle infield positions, you want him at the more important SS position.
Best overall defensively would be in my view Story at second, CR at short and an OF of O’Neil, Duran and Abreu assuming all are healthy
Fever- the Sox have two pieces to try to get a potential Ace. The Sox can trade Duran or Casas but can’t trade both. I think ya keep T.O. in both instances because T.O. and Devers are the home run threats on the roster. Rafaela is the key in why we have the flexibility to do either trade. Trading Casas ya move Devers to first, then Rafaela could play 3rd or Story if ya trying to protect Story a little and put Rafaela on short. Or ya trade Duran and Yoshida keep T.O in left, Rafaela in Center, and platoon Abreu and Refsnyder in RF……Either move should get at least a number 2 rotation piece….add prospects and ya probably could try for a Skubal or give Seattle a call…
Never even thought of trading Casas who in my view is not being dealt. Their chips are Duran and in the minors. The question is how do they and other teams truly value each. The Sales trade to Boston would be viewed far differently if Devers had been included instead of Moncada.
dewey – Well Rafaela at shortstop blew the game last night.
Ref misplayed an easy fly ball out into a double, allowing one run to score.
And then the brain-dead Rafaela got the ball from Ref and didn’t bother to pay attention to the second runner, which Cora (the older, intelligent, non-cheating one) noticed and sent the second runner home with the winning run.
This is yet another example of what I’ve been saying all along, Rafaela is an extremely gifted million dollar athlete with a ten cent brain. The huge and costly mental error was just one of many, such as about a month ago when he got tagged out talking to Hudson and didn’t realize he wasn’t touching the bag.
If more people here actually watched the games like I do, they’d understand why I have concerns about Rafaela’s lack of intelligence and immaturity. Will it improve as he gets older? Perhaps, only time will tell.
bum – I agree with you that trading either Duran or Casas is not out of the realm of possibility.
Casas is now hitless in his last 15 AB’s, and with each passing day is acting more and more like an attention-craving headcase. It’s fine for players to be quirky like Manny, but the things Casas does – the latest being his wearing a ski mask and goggles on the field, after saying his rib pain felt like being shot and stabbed with a knife – is generating a lot of attention the team doesn’t want or need. It’s tolerable when you’re performing well, but a nuisance when you’re not and your teammates already don’t care for your antics.
I think there is zero chance of TO returning next year. Homeruns shouldn’t be an issue, not with Story good for at least 20 in a healthy season and Rafaela always swinging for the fences. Add Campbell and Anthony to Casas, Abreu and Devers, they should be fine with hitting for power.
Yep Rafaela’s versatility will keep him around as long as Cora is the manager.
I honestly don’t think Skubal will be traded, the Tigers have the ability to spend big and they are anxious to become competitive again.
As for the Mariners pitchers, their home/road splits leaves me very cautious about overspending for one of them.
I think it needs to be spelled out:
Woo H-1.50 ERA, R-2.94 ERA
Kirby H-2.94 ERA, R-4.17 ERA
Castillo H-3.15 ERA, R-4.35 ERA
Gilbert H-2.35 ERA, R-3.81 ERA
Miller H-2.03 ERA, R-4.75 ERA
I’d bite on Woo, that’s about it.
dewey – They haven’t even come close to an extension with Casas, he’s got the concerning rib injury looming over him, and they need to move Devers off 3B.
Casas is not untouchable by any means, he could have the same career trajectory as Plantier.
Don’t be surprised if the Red Sox deal one of Anthony, Duran, Mayer or possibly even Teel this offseason. While I love the Top 3 prospects, they all hit LH. If all 3 were to make it to the majors somehow next year; the Sox would have 7 LHH in their lineup (Devers, Casas, Duran, Abreu, Mayer, Anthony & Teel), not to mention Yoshida as well. That is way too many LHH for a major league club. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if at least 2 of these LHH are traded in the offseason for a budding ace or another comparable fielding prospect who bats right handed.
Dotty – There’s an old baseball saying, you draft the most talented player available regardless of team need.
The same is said for lineups, you don’t give away talented LHB just because there’s supposedly “too many” other LHB in the lineup already.
Sox announcers are absolutely CRUSHING Cora and the Red Sox analytics for pulling Cooper after throwing just 52 pitches. The guy had a perfect game through 4 innings!!! He’d been averaging 77 pitches per start, so why not let him pitch 1-2 more innings??? They pulled him for one reason only, Cora’s obsession with L/R matchups.
Dumb, dumb, DUMB!!
DOB, who is usually very mild mannered and wears rose colored glasses, called it the most controversial loss of the season. He’s probably right! Screw the analytics, if a pitcher is absolutely cruising with a very low pitch count then leave him in the damn game!
Don’t make plans BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTED to pull a SP after a certain inning, that is a horrible way of managing. Cora and the misuse of analytics are absolutely destroying this franchise!!!
Fever Pitch Guy
Sox announcers are absolutely CRUSHING Cora and the Red Sox analytics for pulling Cooper after throwing just 52 pitches. The guy had a perfect game through 4 innings!!! He’d been averaging 77 pitches per start, so why not let him pitch 1-2 more innings??? They pulled him for one reason only, Cora’s obsession with L/R matchups.
Dumb, dumb, DUMB!!
DOB, who is usually very mild mannered and wears rose colored glasses, called it the most controversial loss of the season. He’s probably right! Screw the analytics, if a pitcher is absolutely cruising with a very low pitch count then leave him in the damn game!
Don’t make plans BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTED to pull a SP after a certain inning, that is a horrible way of managing. Cora and the misuse of analytics are absolutely destroying this franchise!!!
_______________________________________
Red Sox fans should have long since gotten used to the idea that Cora mismanages any bullpen and starting pitchers, so the pen burns out by the All-Star Game.
The important match with Detroit confirmed this.
Be prepared to see bad bullpen and starting pitching decisions over the next 3 seasons that will cost the Red Sox at least 10 wins.It isn’t surprising that all these factors lead to negative consequences. .
Remember the early games against Seattle, when Cora put Campbell in a high-leverage situation… pulling starting pitchers after 70 pitches and five innings…
For Cora, games in April don’t matter, he has stated this several times.
.
Fever Pitch Guy
Someone should tell Cora that you don’t have to stick to the plan 100 percent and you can always make adjustments to this plan depending on the circumstances, but Alex considers himself the smartest manager.
He’s not really a smart general manager, I’ve seen this for the 4th year in a row.
Not even Cora and his decisions regarding the bullpen and starting pitchers could spoil 2018, the Red Sox were so talented.
Dorothy_Mantooth
I don’t think trading Durant, Anthony, Teal, Campbell, Mayer after this season is a good idea.
Duran is the leader of the current team.
I think a package could be put together for a #2/3 starting pitcher with Abreu as the headliner plus Valdez and a couple of top 20 prospects.
Ace – maybe Sasaki
#2 – Houck
#3 – trade
#4 – Bello
#5 – Crawford
#6 – Giolito
#7 – Criswell
#8 – Fitts
#9 – Priester
#10 – Dobbins
The Red Sox don’t need to trade their prospects for an ace.
Dorothy_Mantooth
While, I like Abreu and would like him to stay with the Red Sox 2025, it’s clear that he will block Anthony and the Sox need a starting pitcher.
This is my lineup for 2025;
1.Duran CF
2.Anthony LF
3.Story SS
4.Devers 3B
5.Casas 1B
6.Rafaela RF
7.Yoshida DH
8.Hamilton 2B /Grissom,Campbell later
9.Wong C / Teel later
Bench; Romy UTL, 4th OF FA, C FA, Sogard (INF).
SP:
Ace – FA, maybe Sasaki
#2 – Houck, 3 y’s of control (1st Arb)
#3 – Trade
#4 – Bello, 5 y’s, contract
#5 – Crawford, 4 y’s of control (1st Arb)
#6 – Giolito 1 year + vesting option on 2026
#7 – Criswell 5 y’s of control
#8 – Fitts 6 y’s of control
#9 – Priester 5 y’s minimum of control
Bullpen; Hendriks, Whitlock, Slaten, Z.Kelly, Booser, Bernardino, Guerrero, W.Gonzalez, Mata, C.Murphy, Penrod, Shugart.
It is necessary to trade or DFA garbage pitchers – Winkowski, Weissert, Horn…
DFA – Dalbec
Fever, I agree totally. I just doubt the higher-ups and certainly Cora will allow him to go back to the minors.
let – I totally agree, the powers that be won’t allow him to be sent down.
Far too much conjecture. Story hasnt even started a rehab assignment. And even after the 10 or so games it will take to regain timing (if he doesnt need longer), he will be eased slowly back into major league games. Lots could happen before now and then. Guys get hurt or get cold. A platoon system would be fine for the 6 or 7 players involved (DH included).
Much ado about nothing.
Let – Rafaela has been benched for today’s game.
Good to see Cora disciplining him for once.
Yeah that’s ridiculous yo even contemplate
Rafaela since the all star break .285/.324/.358 in 145 plate appearances
Abreu since the all star break .275/.348/.529 in 115 play appearances
Abreu way worse. lol.
Worse? Both have played well overall with CR just in a slump the last week or so. Add defensive value and both have done fine for their first full MLB seasons.
I was being sarcastic Dewey but the proof as someone likes to state is in the stats. Abreu who, admittedly is strong side platoon player, statistically has had the much greater impact when he plays. He might be 10 points less in batting but based on slash lines he’s the much more impactful hitter.
Maybe Grissom will blossom, but wow. Sale is working on taking the NL Cy and pitching Triple Crown right now. And the extension he signed with Atlanta is looking like a steal.
mack – Yes AA swindled Breslow, no question about that.
Can’t think of a better example of a team buying high and selling low when it comes to the Red Sox and Sale. He proved he was healthy last year, that was the only question. Everyone knew good health would lead to a return to greatness. Well, everyone except the Red Sox.
Did Chris Sale really prove he was healthy last year I wouldn’t say that. He missed over two months of the season from June 2nd to August 10th. To me that proving your health.
He did the finish the season healthy for the first time in years but he wasn’t great to finish the season either. Plus it was like he was snake-bit with Boston I’m not convinced he wouldn’t have been injured with Boston again. I don’t blame Breslow for trading Sale they weren’t going to resign him and this season was going to be his last in Boston. Still a young pitcher would have been nice instead Vaughn Grissom at a position we have a ton of players coming. Hell we could have been seeing Nick Yorke being called up to take over 2nd for the rest of the season but because of the Grissom trade they got rid of him as superfluous. Breslow has work to do this offseason his first forays into haven’t been good and that’s putting it nicely.
“ that’s not proving your health”
Bruin – Even Breslow admitted Sale was the healthiest he’s been in years.
masslive.com/redsox/2023/12/despite-recent-injury-…
On the first full day of baseball’s annual Winter Meetings, Breslow, in assessing his starting rotation, was asked about his expectations for Sale. Could Sale be counted on for 25 or more starts in 2024?
“I don’t know why we would say he shouldn’t, right?” responded Breslow. “He’s as healthy as he’s been (in a while) at this point. I think he has the benefits of a normal ramp-up and a normal offseason. I think he’s probably understanding and we’re understanding how to help him recover and take care of himself.
“I don’t know why I wouldn’t sit here and say we expect a full healthy season.”
Devastated by another setback, he returned and over his final nine outings of the season, he pitched to a 3.91 ERA. More importantly, he was healthy at the conclusion of the season.
This offseason, he hasn’t had to rehab or start from scratch. Sale is experiencing a normal winter, and that gives Breslow hope.
“We feel really good about where he is right now,” said Breslow. “Speaking to the medical group, the performance group, this is the most optimistic they’ve been. And the value of a full, healthy, normal off-season is huge. He’s throwing off the mound. He feels good about his progress in the offseason. The reality is, when he’s on the mound, he’s a really good major league pitcher.”
Fever I’m not advocating he wasn’t healthy at the beginning of the year. I was just saying that guy hasn’t stayed healthy for the full season since he got that extension with Boston. In retrospect we should have kept him. He’s remained healthy and he’s been Chris Sale all year. It also sure looks like Grissom is superfluous now since Campbell has gone past him and imo is the Red Sox 2nd baseman next year. This was all hard to predict though I know of no one including me who thought Campbell would take this kind of jump. It was also really hard to bank on Sale to be healthy all season. I don’t blame Breslow for that trade.
Bruin – I agree on Campbell, but they had so many other options at 2B to start the season. It could have been Rafaela & Story covering middle infield.
Giving Giolito $39M to replace Sale, on top of the $17M they gave Atlanta to cover Sale’s salary, was incredibly foolish even if Giolito had managed to stay healthy.
I get trading Sale because ownership doesn’t plan to contend until at least 2026, but it would have been a good gamble to hold onto Sale during the first half of this season and then trade him for a premium return.
And BTW remember there’s been big question marks about Grissom’s ability to play 2B, which is why Atlanta was planning to try him out in the outfield.
Yea Fever the jury is out on Breslow. His trades have not been good. His free agent additions have been a mixed bag. I like some of the infrastructure things he’s done. It appears he had a good draft and international signings this season but it’s very early. This is going to be a big off season for Breslow. This team has shown they can compete. They need pitching reinforcements including a tor arm. They have a lot of arms and expect Bello to continue to mature and get better. This rotation looks a lot different if it’s fronted by tor arm. I’m afraid though that ownership won’t green-light spending this off-season and just say something like Gio is coming back Fulmer in the pen but hopefully they surprise me and spend some money.
Of course Breslow was going to say Sale is healthy at the winter meetings if he intended to trade him.
What was Breslow to say when he was trying to increase Sale’s value? Stop relying only on stories that are PR spin. The problem is not trading Sale as it was the right move for a team not expected to win in 24 or extend him. The problem isn’t even the return because EVERYONE expected Grissom to hit. I. my view, the mistake was not forcing Atlanta to pay more of Sale’s contract so that money could have been used elsewhere as the Boston bean counters limit Breslow’s ability to do more in the short term.
All, we just said the same thing!
Dewey: Yes. We are brilliant!
Bruin – I hope and think Breslow will improve with experience. As with any new job, there will always be a learning curve. He didn’t inherit a great team like Theo and Ben did, which makes it that much harder on him along with the greatly reduced budget he has to work with.
Did you see the recent upcoming free agent list? Slim pickings with just Burnes, Snell, Flaherty and Fried. The Red Sox weren’t motivated to grab any of last year’s SP bargains because they don’t plan to contend until at least 2026, so I doubt they will even attempt to outbid for any of those four guys in what will be a competitive market.
Can a rotation of Houck, Crawford, Bello, Gio and Paxton be competitive next year? Sorry I just don’t see it. Ownership has often stated they will spend when and if CMAT settle into solid MLB players, but if none of them are going to get a cup of coffee this year then the timeline will likely move from 2026 to 2027.
dewey – You think any MLB franchise, let alone arguably the best, would make a major trade to acquire a veteran pitcher and give out a sizeable contract extension based on what a rival team says? LOL!!
I’ve been around long enough to see the Red Sox make the exact same damn mistake over and over with their star players.
Wade Boggs was a .345 career hitter when he had an injury plagued 1992 season in which he hit just .259 and the Red Sox were dumb enough to think his career was over. He ended up hitting .317 his next 4 years and even won his first two Gold Gloves!
Roger Clemens had injury-plagued 1995-1996 seasons in which his ERA jumped to 3.83 and the Red Sox were dumb enough to think his career was over. He ended up pitching 10 more years with a 3.17 ERA!!!!
Moral of the story, never give up on superstars just because they have a period of injury in their mid-30’s. ESPECIALLY if it’s a pitcher whose injuries aren’t even arm related.
Remember what I kept writing over and over last season? Big market teams like the Red Sox should never, ever punt on a season because you just don’t know what could happen.
Just imagine where the Sox would be right now if they had kept Sale OR signed Flaherty OR signed Lugo OR signed Imanaga OR traded for Burnes OR signed Wacha OR signed Manaea! My God they had so many opportunities to improve their pitching without giving out a big contract, and yet all they did was swap a perennial Cy Young contender for a guy with a 5 ERA over the prior two seasons who had injury flags all over the place. How pathetic is that?
As for Grissom, who is “everyone”? I certainly didn’t make that assumption, not after he was sent down in 2022 when his OPS crashed from .792 to .659
Here’s one of the scouting reports: “I’m lukewarm on him. He really can’t play shortstop, and I see him being limited to either second base or a corner outfield spot. He has contact skills, but the power is not there. For me, not an impact guy”.
“Was late reading and reacting to a couple ground balls. At bats were solid in the games I saw, but saw a little pitch recognition issue.”
As for the metrics ….
“For some strange reason, it appears that Grissom just forgot how to hit a breaking pitch. He saw 98 breaking pitches in August and 97 in September, so that sample sizes are as about as even as you can get, yet the rate stats are drastically different.
In August, against breaking pitches Grissom had a wOBA of .365 (league average in 2022 was .272), and an xwOBA of .390. It was looking like Grissom had the potential to be an elite hitter against breaking pitches.
However, in September his performance against them took a nose dive. His wOBA against breaking pitches was .171, and his xwOBA was .273.”
“Ultimately, his downfall against the pitch was due to a few reasons. First, that he was swinging and missing more. His whiff rate sky rocketed from 32.3 percent in August to 44.4 percent in September. His quality of contact dropped as well. In August his average exit velocity (EV) against breaking pitches was 84.2 MPH with a launch angle of 8 degrees. In September his EV dropped to 73.9 and his launch angle was -3 degrees.”
Fever, we obviously disagree. Sale has had one injury after another but if a ready now team was willing to take a chance, why not? Here, the team thought Grissom was ready and just held back by Akbie. Why listen to one or two scouts if you have your own? And it was nearly all if not everyone. The problem then was the Sox envisioned Grissom hitting .300 and stabilizing the infield with Story back. Obviously, they saw in Grissom what we today don’t see. I got one would love to have kept Sale and rolled the dice but ownership obviously did not believe the team could win in 24.
dewey – I think we partially agree. Ownership has said they don’t plan to compete until at least 2026, so I agree with you that holding onto Sale for 2024/2025 would have been kinda pointless.
But certainly they could have gotten a LOT more for him if they had kept him through the trade deadline. Mark my words, unless Grissom turns into an All-Star that trade will go down as one of the worst in MLB history.
It’s so frustrating to realize the Sox would be firmly cemented in a playoff spot, and have a legit chance to do some serious damage in the postseason, if they had simply held onto Sale.
You are 100% correct about ownership never believing in this year’s team.
When the NYY acquired Jazz at the deadline, the Red Sox acquired Jansen.
When the Astros acquired Kikuchi, the Red Sox acquired Paxton.
When the Dodgers acquired Kopech, the Red Sox acquired Garcia.
Talk about an embarrassing trade deadline for a front office that *claimed* to want to improve the team.
And they are showing even more their non-interest in winning with today’s call-ups of Shugart and Valdez. I mean seriously, THAT’s the best they can do? Why haven’t they called up Kristian Campbell or Roman Anthony or Kyle Teel instead?
Um… Because they aren’t taking this season seriously? I think we all realized this even before Spring Training started?
That’s probably for the best at this point. It makes no sense to underinvest in the team in January, then try to fix it mid-season. That gets very expensive and doesn’t work very well.
They may also be conserving 40-man roster spots, only adding guys like Sogard that they don’t mind losing on waivers.
tff – Of course you’re right, ownership hasn’t tried to contend since the 2018 season.
There are three things that make Red Sox Nation very frustrated and angry.
1) A large market team with the 4th-highest revenue in MLB should NEVER punt on a season. If they hadn’t punted on this season, Sox would be firmly in a playoff spot right now.
2) Since they never had any intention of truly contending, even after the better-than-expected first half of the season, they should have sold. Instead they wasted decent prospects who could have been packaged for longterm impact players.
3) They are wasting an opportunity for guys like Campbell, Teel, Anthony and Fitts to get their feet wet this season. Whether it’s service time manipulation or not, they are delaying even more the next possible window of true contention by not promoting ANY prospects this season. The fact that guys like Gasper, Danny Jansen, Valdez, Sogard, Hill, and Shugart are on the active roster is ridiculous!
Other than Yorke (who brought them another prospect in return), I don’t think they gave up much talent. No way to package guys you don’t want for impact players — at most they can be a sweetener in a much larger deal (and they still have plenty of talent at that level for sweeteners). They weren’t going to add those prospects to the 40-man roster anyways.
Won’t hurt Campbell, Teel, Anthony, and Fitts to finish out the Woo-Sox schedule. The first three are already moving very fast through the minors, still have plenty to work on. Fitts only really got his act together in August, so he hasn’t been held back. The last game is September 22, so they could come up for the final week if it mattered. HOWEVER it saves a spot on the 40-man roster if they wait until 2025. Fitts is the only one who needs to be added this year regardless.
So yeah, I’m plenty frustrated about #1, and have been since last winter. I really thought they could put together a contending team this year, and they didn’t even try!!! But I believe #2 is overstated and while I would love to see the kids in the majors, I can also see the other side of that one.
I’m not totally confident that Shugart doesn’t belong in the majors. He isn’t a top prospect, for sure, but he has a nice change. That’s a bit of a lost art. 🙂
I think we may see yearly complaints that the Red Sox are not trying as I don’t see them signing older free agents to big contracts that often anymore. I think most of their longer contracts will come from locking up their younger talent. I think they may spend more on free agents to fill holes when their top prospects are up with the Red Sox. I doubt we see guys like Campbell, Anthony and Teel up with the Red Sox this year after only 3-4 weeks at AAA. Fitts might get a start of two with the Red Sox as he has been at AAA all year.
If they had simply locked up Betts long term, I could be a lot more patient with the rest….
tff – So for #2 are you saying they should NOT have sold? They could have gotten a whole lot of talent for at least Pivetta and O’Neill.
Given where they were in the standings, I think they played it right. Small additions but without spending meaningful value.
Hoping they keep Pivetta or perhaps Flaherty. Not aces, but the contracts that are being floated for the aces are insane. Some $280M for Burnes? Or $200M for Cole? Only worth it if you get their last six years rather than their next six years.
tff17
I don’t see the point in keeping Pivetta, he’s a solid №4 at best, in 4 seasons with the Red Sox he hasn’t shown the consistency as a starting pitcher that he can be a solid №3.
Pivetta with Red Sox:
2021 – 31G (30GS) 4.53 ERA pre-arb ($ 0,613m)
2022 – 33G (33GS) 4.56 ERA 1st arb ($ 2,65 m)
2023 – 38G (16GS) 4.04 ERA 2nd arb ($ 5.35 m)
2024 – 22G (21GS) 4.53 ERA 3rd arb ($ 7.5 m)
His 2023 ERA is 4.04 because he played 22 games in a bullpen where Pivetta was good.
Pivetta could make more money as a No. 4 in 2025 than Houck and Crawford combined.
Pivetta doesn’t make sense for the Red Sox in 2025, they need another solid №3 and an ace or solid №2.
Yeah, they really need an ace or a solid #2. But who are the aces who are (or might be) available? Burnes, Cole, Fried, Snell? The problem in each case isn’t their talent. Burnes has a 3.01 ERA and the #2 WAR over the last four years. Cole a 3.18 ERA and +14.7 WAR. Fried a 2.91 ERA and +13.0 WAR. Snell a 3.22 ERA and +12.1 WAR. They are four of the top 20 pitchers by ERA over that span, all legit aces.
But their health? Fried was injured last year, injured this year, and has a 4.96 ERA since his return from the DL. Snell has topped 130 innings just twice in his ML career, and this year won’t be a third time. His 3.56 ERA in a pitcher-friendly park isn’t all that exciting either. Cole spent half the season on the DL with an elbow strain, and his velocity is still down two ticks from where it was in 2022. Nor does the 3.86 ERA scream “ace”. I’m guessing he isn’t far from needing TJS.
And Burnes? The man has been a rock his entire career, but last year and this are a clear step down from what he was doing in 2021-2022. And for those who noted Giolito’s second half struggles last year and saw signs of an injury in that, Burnes has a 6.40 ERA over his last six starts.
I’d love any of those four on a three-year deal, but people are tossing around $280M for Burnes, $200M+ for Cole and Snell, and something close to that for Fried. We need pitchers who can give us 6 IP per start, 180 IP per year, which isn’t Fried, isn’t Snell, and hasn’t been Cole this year. Burnes still seems to be good for that, but for *8* more years?
Which of these guys would you try to sign and what would you offer them? As long as the price tag is $200M++, I have strong misgivings.
As for Pivetta… It’s silly to compare a free agent contract to guys in their first year of arbitration (Houck) or making the major league minimum (Crawford). The only way Houck’s earnings could possibly match Pivetta’s next year would be if he were to sign a long-term contract — which I believe ought to be one of the Red Sox off-season priorities. Baseball’s economics are all out of whack, with 2/3 of the talent in the majors not having enough service time to qualify for FA and thus badly underpaid.
Pivetta is one of just 68 pitchers in the majors with 250+ innings over the last two years. By virtue of that ALONE he is a “mid rotation starter”, or the equivalent, and his 4.26 ERA over that span ranks #48.
If you want to look at just his innings as a starter, ignoring the strong run in a long relief role, there are just 125 pitchers who have 160+ innings as a starter *combined* for 2023-2024. Pivetta’s 37 GS (#95), 198 IP (#92), and 4.63 ERA (#96) all rank decently well. But I believe he deserves some credit for his bullpen work as well.
You don’t sign Pivetta to lead the rotation and dominate games, because he isn’t going to do that. But you might sign Pivetta because he is #58 in the majors in innings pitched over the last two years, and #25 over the last four years. Do we have enough quality arms on the roster to afford to give up those innings?
You don’t sign Pivetta to lead the rotation and dominate games, because he isn’t going to do that. But you might sign Pivetta because he is #58 in the majors in innings pitched over the last two years, and #25 over the last four years.
=======================
You make sense. Seems like the logic used to sign Giolito. I wonder where Giolito ranked before they signed him.
tff17
I think a package could be put together for a #2/3 starting pitcher with Abreu as the headliner plus Valdez and a couple of top 20 prospects.
The Red Sox don’t necessarily have to chase an ace next offseason.
All they need is No. 2 and No. 3 – this will be a significant improvement compared to 2024.
Complement the existing rotation with Houck, Bello, Crawford, Giolito and depth of Criswell, Fitts, Priester, Dobbins, W. Gonzalez.
Boston already has Bello and Giolito under contract, so giving Pivetta another 10+ million a year as the No. 4 pitcher doesn’t make sense.
And this money is better spent on No. 2.
After this season, 16 m Jansen, 7.5 m Martin, 17 m Sale, 6 m O’neil, 7.5 m Pivetta, 4 m Turner are off the books – that’s 58 million, which can be spent on starting pitcher No. 2, second catcher, 4- th outfielder, closer, good left-handed reliever
@suit, Giolito had been one of the more durable pitchers in the league.
I agree, that could be a sensible path. Trading for a younger arm (and perhaps extending them) works better than signing a 30 year old pitcher to an 8 year deal. Tough to comment on specifics, though, as it all depends on how other teams value the talent you are offering. I would be very reluctant to trade Anthony, Campbell, Mayer, or Teel at this time.
Wouldn’t be totally opposed to trading Casas in the right deal. Devers would be better at 1B defensively than he is at 3B.
tff17
Please understand my logic correctly.
We’ve all seen the improvement this season from pitchers like Houck and Crawford in the first half and Bello in the second half.
For example, the Red Sox add a #2 free agent, #3 in a deal, Houck looks like #2, Bello looks like #3 in potential and is only 25 years old, Crawford looks like #3/4 solid plus Giolito in #3 potential and depth Criswell , Fitts, Priester, Dobbins, so Pivetta is the odd one out here as #4 for 10+ million.
The Red Sox had no starting pitching depth in 2024 at Triple-A.
in 2025 – these are Fitts, Priester, Dobbins, W. Gonzalez
I’m not convinced that Devers would be any better defensively at 1B. I’m not sure he can handle bad throws.
tff – I never believe in doing anything halfway, that just leaves a team in purgatory …. hard to achieve anything that way.
I said at the trade deadline the lack of significant acquisitions would bring down the team emotionally. It would show a lack of faith in the team, just like the 2022 and 2023 trade deadlines, and cause a similar second half collapse. And here we are with Duran/Abreu/Yoshida being the only guys still giving it their all. Four straight years of August collapses, not a coincidence.
Interestingly back in June MLBTR had Pivetta ranked as the 4th-best free agent pitcher. Since then his performance has gone downward, and after nice progress last year he’s now back to the same 4.50 ERA guy he was back in 2021 and 2022. I’ve been one of his biggest supporters since Day One, but now at his age I don’t see him ever being better than a #4 SP.
I’d still like to have him on the team because he’s always capable of a dozen great starts each year, but I can’t picture the Sox giving him fair market value.
Agree with you on Burnes, he seems like the potential is there for a big decline and since Sox ownership has stated they don’t plan to contend until at least 2026 it doesn’t make much sense to overpay for him this winter. I’d rather they go after Sasaki if they are gonna spend big, but again that’s a huge “if”.
I don’t really have an opinion on Cole because his health situation is kinda murky.
bogie – I think Pivetta’s ability to pitch effectively as a starter or reliever is actually a huge benefit. Next year the Sox could conceivably begin the season with Houck/Crawford/Bello/Paxton/Pivetta as their starting rotation and then when Gio and Hill join the Red Sox midseason and Paxton gets injured, Pivetta can get moved back to the pen.
Because you just know Paxton and Hill will be with the Red Sox again next season.
tff – Sasaki is the only pitcher I’d go big after, because he’d still be in his prime when the Sox plan to compete in 2026 or later.
tff – Great post all around! Yes Pivetta has value and is worth a #3 SP salary even if he’s no better than a #4.
And you reminded me of all the times some people here, especially a certain person who I have thankfully muted, would constantly compare the salaries of free agents with the salaries of players under team control. They would calculate salary per 1 WAR for each player and come to the ridiculous conclusion that for instance Verdugo/Wong/Downs was a better bargain than Mookie.
Free agent contracts should NEVER be compared to team control contracts.
Fever Pitch Guy
I hope that Breslow as GM makes the right decisions starting in 2024 and we see moves from him that will improve the 2024 team and the Red Sox will be able to compete for the playoffs, and not for a wild card.
Because spending $200+ million for the third year in a row and not making the expanded playoffs is unacceptable for a franchise like the Red Sox.
Although there is still a chance to make the playoffs this season, I have little confidence in Cora’s decision-making in key matches.
Fever Pitch Guy
I think Breslow could have done better at the deadline than Garcia, Sims, Pexton and it wouldn’t have cost Anthony, Teal, Mayer, Campbell.
Honestly, I thought Breslow would pull off a better deal with York as the headliner.
Fever Pitch Guy
It’s completely stupid to compare a generational player like Betts to Verdugo, Wong, Downs.
I’m afraid the Red Sox trading Duran would be the biggest foolish thing ever, even though they need top-line starting pitching.
Even with a slight regression on offense and defense in 2025, Duran could easily be a 4-5 WAR player, the kind of star player the Red Sox are sorely missing.
I think if Abreu was at least in the .700 OPS range against left-handed pitchers he would be a star full-time player for the Red Sox.
But with Anthony knocking on the Major League door, I see Abreu as the headliner in a pitcher deal.
For example, with Seattle.
They need a left-handed outfielder, we need a starting pitcher.
I think Wu would fit in the right deal, but only if Duran, Anthony, Mayer, Teel, Campbell are missing – they should be untouchable in 2025 and beyond
I thought that Yorke for Priester was straight up fair, and I’m not super high on Priester… Yorke has shown flashes of talent, but still looks more like a bench player or second division starter than somebody you want holding down the fort for a long time.
tff17
I thought that Yorke for Priester was straight up fair, and I’m not super high on Priester… Yorke has shown flashes of talent, but still looks more like a bench player or second division starter than somebody you want holding down the fort for a long time.
___________________________________________________
I hope the pitching coaches tune Priester to be in the starting rotation in 2025 and beyond, because York looks decent in Triple A, but with Campbell on the horizon, it’s unlikely York is the long-term answer at second base.
The Steamer projections for Yorke are hardly the final word. They aren’t even the best of the projection systems IMHO, as they tend to overrate prospects a bit. But they currently project .241/.305/.352 for Yorke, which is underwhelming.
Even Valdez projects to .229/301/.396, and I don’t think he is the answer either. Hoping Yorke beats the odds and succeeds in the majors, but (like Valdez) I suspect it is more likely that he is a AAAA player.
Suit- That’s exactly why we keep Pivetta….We are going to have a top 10 offense nxt year maybe better. What we need is the pitching taken away from Cora. I’d like to see Andrew Bailey control the pitching staff and Cora keep the lineup. We need 2 starters that can go 180 innings to protect what should be a good bullpen. A back end of Hendricks, Slaten, and Whitlock should put games away if healthy.
Houck, Crawford, and Bello should all be good for 180 next year. Gotta love Pivetta, too, for the innings.
Red Sox are covering this years salary!
While not exploding on the scene, I feel like Rafaela and Hamilton have both done enough to stay on the roster. I would love to see them have the starting SS & 2B jobs, but I know Story will take one of those when he gets back. I think getting regular at bats to Rafaela and Hamilton is key to developing them.
Hamilton was a nice surprise but the season wore him down and remember he came up only because of injuries. Despite his speed, he was never a top prospect. Funny how Bloom was so hated yet with Abreu, Pivetta and Hamilton, some trades worked out nicely. He just didn’t develop pitching. A big question now for Breslow is how he puts together a staff and the trade of Yorke in my view is only the beginning. When the Sox rebounded after the Bobby V and last place through 2014 era, they had a nucleus developing (JBJ, Mookie, etc.) and they traded for Sale. They need to properly assess their prospects (keep Devers, trade Moncada) and turn what you don’t keep into a frontline pitcher. At the same time, lock up Casas, trade Duran (or extend him too) and be smart on the free agent market (no more Panda type signings, etc.).
Dewey – As you know……After Bobby Valentine 2012, the Red Sox won a World Series in 2013!
Yes, Ben Cherington screwed up in 2014 and 2015 (deserved to get fired), because of Sandoval, Hanley, Craig, Rusney…… on the bright side Cherington did not trade, Betts, JBJ, Bogaerts, Devers,….
MLB – the 13 season was a once in a lifetime situation that involved a lot of luck. A lot of smaller moves that all seemed to work. I get mad at MLB with Rusney because without a grandfather clause he had no chance of coming back up. While not being a star, he could have been useful.
Dewey – $72,500,000 was very useful with no pressure to play in the MLB.
MLB has made a lot of stupid rules concerning players over the decades. The players union is also at fault for plenty too.
Hamilton is a big loss as part of the Sox running game.
Rafaela is not going to AAA. Story could play 2B when Rafaela is at SS and SS when Ceddane is in CF. Young players hit rough patches and Rafaela’s will pass.
Rsox – With Hamilton, it’s not much different than his brother Billy ….. neither one can steal first base.
David is batting just .200 with a .613 OPS in his last 30 games ….. and batting just .130 with a .461 OPS in his last 7 games. If he can’t use his speed for infield hits, it’s kinda useless sitting on the bench.
I agree Rafaela won’t get sent down because Cora loves shifting home around the field, but he should be sent down because clearly Fatso hasn’t been able to get Rafaela to stop swinging at everything.
He has just a .682 OPS in nearly 600 PA’s …. that’s not a patch, that’s a football field.
They aren’t brothers, brother.
Plz don’t try and read anything into fever’s post that wasn’t there. Enough of that in today’s society to go around as it is.
What was plain for 95% of the normal people to see right away, was Fever meant both David and Billy hamilton both have speed as their carrying factor, K more than someone who hasn’t got that much XBH ability, isn’t very selective at the plate and in David’s case? Hasn’t shown much in the way of defensive chops at any position yet.
Both Hamilton’s are/were known for base stealing, so think fever just laid it out like that and wish folks here would just cease with the always looking to add nefarious and hidden meanings into everything.
But it was there
if you had to explain what FPG meant in that much detail it wasn’t plain to see. And he literally wrote that David and Billy Hamilton were brothers.
Also correcting someone when they make a mistake no matter how obvious doesn’t speak to a larger nefarious purpose. Perhaps you should take your own advice and not read into things that aren’t there especially when it comes to people’s intentions.
john – Thank you. Yes some people always try to add a totally different meaning to words. I have online friends who call me brother all the time, should I get offended by thinking they accused my mother of having an affair with their father?
Too bad Josh Hamilton wasn’t a lightning-fast no-hit player, I could have referenced him instead. LOL!!
loin – Shall I make assumptions of your age based on the screen name you chose to use?
Don’t worry, I won’t report you.
you add a different meaning to what other people write all the time. Just admit you didn’t know they were related and move on
Your call dude
Sounds like a troll to me
Man, you’re brutal. For four years you left me alone until now? What changed? You thought what I did before this was trolling?
Oh, it’s getting heated. Better grab the popcorn
He’ll get his shot Spring ’25
Sending Rafaela down is crazy talk. If Story does come back a big if then Rafaela gets to play the position he was born to play centerfield.
Offensively he’s going to have some issues he walks like 3% of the time but he still makes contact a lot he’s a #9 hitter but you don’t send him back to AAA. If he hits .250 with 10-15 homer pop and plays gold glove level defense then he’s a valuable player. The talk of sending him back to AAA is crazy and it’s not going to happen.
Bruin – What do you think of the situation with Mickey? The whole point of having him on the roster was to allow both Jansen and Wong to hit in the same games against LHP …. but obviously neither one can hit right now.
Wong is hitting just .237 with a .658 OPS in his last 30 games, and just .130 with a .341 OPS in his last 7 games.
Jansen is hitting just .190 with a .610 OPS in his last 15 games, and just .095 with a .269 OPS in his last 7 games.
The heck with waiting for Mickey to get his first MLB hit, send him down and bring up someone who can actually HELP the team.
I would like to see Boston bring up Campbell to take over 2nd. I think his bat plays and it would not shock me to handle big league pitching right out of the gate.
Mickey is a good story but Campbell can make a difference. I don’t think there’s a big roster crunch on the 40 man this year so that shouldn’t be a deterrent. He’s the best option to play and make a difference.
What is the story behind Mickey? The name did not ring a bell when he appeared in the line-up and each time he gets additional appearances without getting a hit I don’t understand why he has not been sent down.
Uncle – He has two parents that are Yankee fans and he grew up a Yankee fan in New Hampshire which is highly unusual. In fact he was named after Mickey Mantle.
They attend every game waiting for him to get his first MLB hit, but it hasn’t happened yet.
Thanks. I was curious about him from when I first saw his name. Feel bad for him having such struggles, but hopefully he can get moved down to the minors and find his swing.
After signing an 8 year extension, I’m pretty confident Rafaela will stay with the Red Sox.
Bringing back Martin for, say, 4-5 million wouldn’t be a terrible idea. As for Story, he was always supposed to be a bridge from Bogey to Mayer, who’s going to reach the majors by the end of next season. Freak shoulder injury shouldn’t be counted against him and we already knew about his ragged elbow when we signed him; a healthy 2025 can be at least expected at this point.
troy – I disagree on Martin. Sox ownership has said they don’t plan to contend until at least 2026, so there’s no real need for Martin with Liam assumed healthy and Whitlock probably returning to the pen.
Story’s health next year is anyone’s guess. He is due for a healthy season, I agree with you there. But even when he WAS healthy he couldn’t hit his way out of a paper bag. I say trade him and eat half his contract. Let Mayer and Campbell cover the middle infield next year.
I’ve expecting them to return Whitlock to the pen for three seasons. I don’t what the hell they’ll do in 2025 when he’s “healthy.”
Martin I’ll not push for bringing back, just that it wouldn’t be a huge expenditure for some stability.
We’ve not had a healthy Story in Boston, and I don’t know how well he’ll hit at this point. Still figure he’s better than Hamilton and am willing to see what he does before trading at the absolute low.
troy – I agree, Story is definitely better than Hamilton.
Story provides GG-caliber defense at both middle infield positions. The problem is, if they already have two offensive black holes in Rafaela & Wong/Jansen, can they afford a third black hole with Story? Time will tell.
Troll, Story was the best second baseman in the league in the limited time he was healthy there. As for Martin, if he wants to return I’d sign him in a heartbeat and if the team flounders next year, trade him at the deadline, something they couldn’t do this season.
I think it’s time they bite the bullet and trade Story, like they did with Sale. Except this time get a pitching prospect back.
He has played in 94,43, and 8 games for the Sox. If he’s still on the Sox next year, expect yet another lengthy IL stint. Let’s shed the team of Yoshida and Story and make room for the new kids.
Who’s going to trade for Story? The Red Sox would have to eat a ton of that contract no one is trading for Story and certainly not going to get a prospect back. The Red Sox are stuck with Story.
The same could have been said about Chris Sale last off season, and they traded him.
Roster spots on the 26man will be at a premium with all the young talent coming up. Out with the old and bad, in with the new.
Chris Sale and Trevor Story aren’t the same player. I have no horse in this race, but nobody is trading for Story.
As I said in my previous comment, the same exact thing could have (and was) said about Sale last year.
Sox eat the entire deal and get a mediocre prospect back. It happens all the time.
There is no way the Red Sox are going to eat anywhere near 77.5M to get rid of Story.
That worked great this year with Sale. He is having a Cy Young worthy year and we are paying for him to do it for another club. In his place we got a player who has been a bust so far. We do the same thing with Story and eat 75+ million for nothing and he will probably have the best few years of his career. Yoshida makes more sense but who will give up anything for him.
Sox ownership has said they don’t plan to contend until at least 2026
================
This is false. There is nothing to back this up.
If Rafaela goes to Worcester, then Breslow is going in the Harbor with the tea
Who writes this stuff? Ceddane is top 5 rookie of the year, he’s slumping right now but still gives you good glove defense.
There is plenty of excess fat on that roster to trim if they need a spot for Story. That’s just poor journalism.
Raefella is good but man has the AL ever had a poor rookie showing this year. None of these guys would even be in the conversation for Rookie of the Year if they played in the NL.
Cowser will win it in spite of a rather dismal batting average and a ton of whiffs.
let – I think it will be Abreu, who leads the league in rookie WAR by a mile (3.7)
Next highest position player is Hamilton at 2.5
Skubal for ROTY?
Doh! Blame it on age, but I think I got him confused with Skenes. They all look so young these days.
tff – I think most of us didn’t respond because we figured you had to be talking about Record Of The Year.
After all, he is in Motown ;O)
Take pity on the old guy!!!
“…or perhaps be bumped into a utility role since he’s also a capable outfielder.”
Very strange of the author to insinuate that Rafaela is an infielder first (“also”) and that he’s only “capable” in the outfield. Pretty much everyone knows his fielding in Center is at least very good if not better, and he’s definitely an OFer first and foremost. Infield is his “also”.
It’s apparent the writer isn’t all that up on Rafaela.
Neither are you, I guess
Rafaela from 5/25 thru 8/15 (268 PA):
.311/.347/.453 (120 wRC+)
swanzey – June ROM was Langford and July was Keith.
Rafaela is a capabale outfielder? Lol come on Darragh..watch a few games he is arguably the best outfielder on the whole team and just happens to also play a decent shortstop…geez send him down? He is going to get rookie of the year votes…do your homework man thats lazy writing .
Agreed but.
He isn’t “arguably” the best outfielder on the team.
He IS the best outfielder on the team.
Hard to disagree with such a well worded argument.
So if I disagree, I’m a troll? You and acell think mis casas is on my side. I don’t even know the guy
It doesn’t matter how well it’s worded. The argument itself matters
Story won’t be released because of his contract unfortunately. This is why I like to avoid long, expensive contracts for older free agents. I agree with you that building a good team is about acquiring talent, not about dollars spent.
I don’t see any chance of Story being traded until one of the kids is established at SS. Could be Mayer or Rafaela or Campbell, but they aren’t moving on until his replacement is in the majors and performing well.
2025 should be interesting. Can’t point to an established MI that I have huge confidence in, but at least there are some advanced prospects ready to compete for the jobs.
Story was a complete bust and one of the worst signings by Bloom. Three years of injuries and he was damaged goods before he got here. Bloom should have signed Boggaerts the year before he became a free agent and blew that and could have had him on a cheaper contract.
I thought 6 years was too much for Story and that he would likely block Mayer and Yorke. I know you can’t count on prospects to succeed, but Mayer and Yorke were first round picks and I think they should have been part of the plan. I guess signing Story did save the Red Sox from making a worse deal with Bogaerts.
KD17 has zero ability to evaluate talent at any level. He keeps bashing Mayer for literally no reason other than bloom drafted him. It’s pathetic.
Doubt it makes any difference to Mayer what you, I, or TF thinks. Doubt it makes any difference to the Red Sox either.
Mayer will get his chance soon enough, and if he performs then he gets a job either here oe elsewhere.
It doesn’t but it also doesn’t change the fact that it’s obnoxious and keeps from people having an actual discuss.
I’m skeptical that $90M/3yrs would have kept Bogaerts in Boston, but I agree that would have been great if it had been possible. Even adding a fourth year or fifth year at that rate would have been fine.
I was hearing rumblings about being over $100M off, though, and the deal you describe would have been much closer than that.
tell me yourself. these aren’t facts. You’re expressing your opinion and at best cherry picking stats to try to support your short sighted and slanted argument.
Mookie had an incredibly low strikeout rate in addition to the great positive numbers. Campbell is as close to him as it gets, but Mookie was still a clear step better.
Agreed that Campbell is likely to be the better offensive player than Mayer. Less certain where Anthony ranks, as that kid has huge talent.
I don’t have a good read on minor league defense. It all comes down to scouting reports and reputation, and those can be (and are) hyped.
Errors just don’t tell us much. A weak defender who doesn’t get to many balls may have a lower error rate than a strong defender who tries to make difficult plays and sometimes messes them up. Devers has only two more errors than Ramirez, for example, yet he has 8 fewer converted Outs Above Average.. Many 3B have more errors than Devers, yet he may be the weakest defender with qualifying innings at the position. (His competition is Urias and Morel, both with fewer innings.)
So if errors don’t tell us the story in the majors, they aren’t going to tell us the story in the minors. I totally agree that Campbell’s clean defense is encouraging, but I don’t take it as proof that he is better defensively than Mayer. For that we need either a good scouting report or the richer data that is available for major leaguers.
DH is blocked for three more years. They can potentially trade/release Yoshida, but $18M/year is an awful lot for somebody who is charitably comparable to Martinez or Soler at $12M. My guess is that Devers is stuck at 3b for now unless his defense or health deteriorates further from here.
That was an excellent response and so true.
The way errors are assessed is a joke for all teams, and has been for decades. You are focused on Devers, but it is across the majors. That play yesterday (?) to the second baseman where Romy Gonzalez was running was somehow counted as a double for Duran?!? Devers wasn’t anywhere close to that one, so you can’t blame it on him.
All that really matters is whether the balls are converted into outs or not. And that’s what the more modern defensive metrics assess. None of them are perfect, but they’ll all tell you that Devers is one of the weakest defensive 3B in the majors. Has been since 2020. Anybody weaker doesn’t last long at the position.
You used to be pretty quiet and now you call anyone who disagrees s troll
When you called out my name, that was obnoxious. I never did anything to you
That’s what debate is about.
Not to try to define a GM by a single year, but I’ve been happy with Breslow’s approach thus far. Hasn’t worked out well in some cases, but he seems to at least have a vision for where he wants to take the team. Did Bloom ever see the larger picture?
The top pitching prospects in the upper minors, aside from the injured Perales, are Fitts, Priester, and Sandlin. Whether or not you love them, they are the best we have here – and acquired for the very affordable price of Verdugo, Yorke, and Schreiber.
No blockbuster deals yet, but no blockbuster price tags either. Those are the ones that make or break a GM.
Once again Atlanta took the Red Sox to the cleaners on a trade. I remember the Neff Reardon trade where we received Murphy a pitcher who never made it out of Double AA. I remember the Renteria trade in 2005 where we received Andy Marte a power hitting 3rd baseman who was another bust and now we have Vaughn who cannot make it out of Triple AAA. Atlanta always gets the better of the Red Sox in trades. Sale is leading the National League in wins and strikeouts too.
Al – It’s all payback for the Red Sox letting Esasky sign with the Braves.
I remember the season he had in 1989 and we let him go after that.
Someone get a fork and put it in this team. They are done! Why are our pitchers taken out consistently after the 5th inning? This will be the 3rd year that the Red Sox missed the playoffs.
Al – Cooper was pulled after FOUR PERFECT INNINGS ON ONLY 52 PITCHES!!!
There’s a reason why Cora’s teams have had losing records in August for FOUR CONSECUTIVE YEARS!!!
The Red Sox still could make the postseason as the Twins, Royals and Mariners have all been sucking …. but it won’t happen if Cora keeps managing the way he has been.
A lot of things would have to go right, such as Devers getting healthy and Casas getting his head straight and Rafaela growing the hell up among other things. But yeah, not looking good right now. After next weekend the Sox schedule gets a lot harder than the other contenders.
Yeah, I don’t get why Criswell was pulled there. In his last two starts he faced 18 batters and was pulled after that. I don’t love that practice, but at least it makes some sense. This time he was pulled after 12 perfect?!? Unless there was an injury that I didn’t see, it makes no sense whatsoever. He’s just as good a pitcher as Hill and Kelly, even if he doesn’t throw hard.
They aren’t making the playoffs, but at least the rotation has settled down now that they are into the easy part of the schedule.
tff – There was no injury. There was no fatigue.
At first Cora responded by saying “The hope was for Criswell to get us as many outs as possible”.
But of course he lied, as always, and admitted as such by telling reporters on NESN that Criswell getting replaced by Hill after 4 innings was planned pre-game.
As long as the pitching staff continues to be managed according to pre-game analytics decisions, this franchise will continue to suffer unnecessary losses.
Analytics are only as good as the person using them. It’s just data, it doesn’t make decisions for you.
Personally would rather see Criswell targeting 5 IP if they have to make up their mind before seeing him throw. But allowing for in-game flexibility is best.
Probably losing the game regardless, as it is very tough to win with just 1 run scored. The current lineup is pretty weak.
tff – Yes the lineup was very weak today, for multiple reasons.
Rafaela was benched for his egregious mental errors and extended hitting slump.
O’Neill was benched for health reasons, what else is new.
They’ve basically given up on Mickey, but he’s still on the team so Wong can get practice sucking at multiple positions (ie: 2B, LF) while Jansen’s limp bat remains in the lineup because he was the “big RHB deadline acquisition”.
As for Casas, he broke the 0-for-16 but still looks totally lost at the plate. I warned people here who were expecting last summer’s version of Casas that it wouldn’t be happening.
Devers is injured and shouldn’t be playing at all. I would expect him to have shoulder surgery in the offseason.
And Ref has reverted back to his old form, just as I predicted when he was far overachieving earlier in the season. If he’s smart he will accept that option because he doesn’t deserve even a penny more.
But against the pathetic Tigers lineup, it shouldn’t take more than 2 runs to beat them as long as you pitch decent and play clean defense.
Totally agree on allowing the flow of the game to dictate in-game decisions. Why pay Cora millions if the analytics department is making all the in-game decisions prior to the game even starting?
It was great to see DOB and Will The Thrill and even TC hammering the Red Sox for their analytics. You’re right, analytics is like so many other things …. very beneficial, but only when used appropriately.
Trollfree
Ha ha ha!!!
It looks like there is a group photo, so everyone, both the management and Cora, were hostages of the situation…
I don’t see any other explanation for extending Cora’s contract.
Fever Pitch Guy
Cora admitted in an interview this season that he had mental problems in 2023 that resulted in him making bad decisions, but it looks like those problems haven’t gone away.
It’s unfortunate to see Cora make the same mistakes 4 years in a row, and if in 2021 the Red Sox were lucky and jumped in at the last minute, then the last three seasons – this deja vu continues and looks like it will continue for another 3 seasons, perhaps Cora is hoping that all the prospects coming soon will save his skin for making bad pitching decisions like he did in 2018.
bogie – Cora DID manage better in the first half of the season, but I said at the time it was only because he was going for a big fat contract extension.
I predicted once he gets the big fat contract extension, he would revert back to his crappy managing …. and that’s exactly what has happened.
Yes, that second to last line is pretty much where I’m at here…. Enjoy the development process and hope that eventually things change enough that the team will be competitive again. I’m still hopeful for next year, if they make the right moves.
tff – Let’s hope Mayer doesn’t turn into Glenn Hoffman.
Some prospects will succeed, some won’t. That’s why it is best to have more than one. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Let’s get real about Trevor Story he is, without a doubt, the best defensive shortstop the Red Sox have in the entire organization. Defensively he has outstanding range gets to a lot of balls other shortstops don’t get to. He has a career .979 fielding percentage and that’s with all the throwing errors when everyone knew his arm wasn’t right. The arm has been fixed and when he came back in 2023 he was back to his outstanding defense. Anyone that suggests a n probable non shortstop in Campbell play short over the far superior defender in Story is way underestimating Story’s elite defense. He rarely makes a glove error he has one of the best reaction times of any shortstop in baseball he covers a ton of ground he is elite defensively. Campbell conversely doesn’t have near the shortstop instincts and range that Story has it’s not even close. Story plays shortstop if he’s healthy next year and that’s that. If Story is injured again Rafaela is the backup and a distant third is Campbell who is a second baseman probably to start next year. The point is errors are only part of the story defensively. When Boston went from Bogey to Story it was obvious right away that Story was clearly the better defensive shortstop. I’m not saying he was overall better than Bogey and I loved Bogey but it really wasn’t close defensively. It’s why you have to watch guys play the defensively you can’t just look at a stat and say this guy is better defensively without knowing the whole picture.
It’s why fielding percentage and errors don’t tell the whole story or even a major part of it. People may not want to admit that and by people I mean KD17 but that’s an actual fact.
Wasn’t KD17 here like 3 years ago?
Yordanny Monegro (21Age) prospect №25 Red Sox
2024 – A+ last 8 games 39IP, 15H, 11Walks, 47SO, 0ER!!!!, 2R, 0.00 ERA!!!, WHIP 0.60
B.Bello 2021 (21 Age) – A+ 6GS, 31.2 IP, 45SO, .217Avg, 1.01WHIP
Y.Monegro 2024 (21 Age) – A+ 14(13GS), 61.0 IP, 75SO, .181Avg, 1.03WHIP
The Red Sox would be complete fools if they didn’t protect this guy from the Rule 5 draft December 2024.
Yup. Think you have to protect him, which may be part of why they aren’t calling up their better prospects here?
tff17
Perhaps Monegro isn’t as hyped at the age of 21 as Bello was.
Bello 20 Age #24 Red Sox
2019 – Fastball 60/slider 55/ changeup 50/ control 50/ overall 40
#19 2021 – Fastball 55/slider 55/ changeup 55/ control 50/ overall 50
Monegro 21Age #25 Red Sox
2024 – Fastball 50/curveball 60/ slider 50 / control 45 / overall 40
I think Monegro will get a chance to play in AA next week, at least I hope so…
I think Monegro could be a top 10 pick for the Red Sox next season if they keep him.
There is some question as to how his stuff will hold up to higher competition. His fastball sits in the mid 90’s but it’s not considered to be an elite type fastball due to its spin characteristics. The interesting thing his best pitch last year was his curveball. He threw it up in the zone to steal strikes and then he started it in the middle broke down for heavy swing and miss it was his most effective pitch in 2023. This season he hasn’t used it as much he has really concentrated on that cutter/slider. It’s as if he was told to not rely on the fastball/curve so much and use his slider/cutter more.
In the beginning of the season he gave up some very hard contact but he has really started to control that cutter/slider pitch and since reintroducing his curve a little more again that fastball/slider/curve combination has been nearly unhittable. I think they have been artificially holding him down because they weren’t planning on protecting him in the rule 5 draft but imo that ship has sailed. His last opponent that he throughly dominated Bowling Greenhas been one of most dominant offenses and teams in the second half and he ran through them like nothing.
ERC also had a fantastic outing against BG gave up only one solo homer and looks primed for AA but that another discussion.
The top ten right now is really tough to break into, but once some guys graduate, sure!
Reviewing the SoxProspects history, Bello didn’t break into the top 10 until the middle of 2021, after he made it to AA (and with a hot K rate at that level). He wasn’t even in their top 20 at the start of 2021.
I’m totally enthused about the success that Monegro is having, but keep coming back to the same principle – you can’t realistically judge a pitcher in A ball, and you can’t scout the stat line. The 2.66 ERA is spectacular, but he has a 3.80 FIP.. In contrast, Bello had a 2.27 ERA but a 2.82 FIP at the same level.
Bello was a year older at the same level, but the 2020 minor league season was cancelled, so that wasn’t his fault.
And it is crazy how few innings these guys are throwing in the minors. Monegro only just topped 60 IP for the season. Long way from that to a major league workload…
Some other guys looking good in A-ball, especially Valera, but also Dean, Wehunt, and ERC. Dobbins at AA (now AAA). Wikelman Gonzalez has been throwing more strikes and has a 1.41 ERA since the start of July.
This year we’ve seen the “Big Three” establish themselves in the upper minors and advance to the verge of the majors. (Oops, “Big Four” now that Campbell has roared through the minors.) I’m thinking next year will feature the emergence of some pitching in the system, something that Bloom never gave much attention to.
Monegro, ERC, Valera, Dobbins, Early, Paez are all pitchers that have been added by Bloom.
Bloom added more pitching than people realize. In fact Blooms pick are littered in this very deep and quality farm system. I think it’s fair to criticize Bloom on what he did with the big club I don’t think it’s fair to criticize what he has done with the farm. At worst you can give him an incomplete but all of his top 4 guys are Bloom guys including arguably the steals of the 2022 and 2023 draft with Anthony and Campbell respectively.
tff17
Bello pitched 31.2 innings in A+ at age 22 in 2021 with a 2.27 ERA and was promoted to Double-AA where he pitched 63.2 innings with a 4.66 ERA in 15 games with a .266 AvG and 1.41 WHIP. (95.1 IP).
Monegro 71.0 IP in 2024 at age 21 and will probably play 2-3 more games, hopefully in double AA.
Yordanni missed April 2024 due to injury, so his innings total falls short of Bello’s 2021.
Bruin1012
depth of the SP 2025:
AAA
Fitts (Breslow, trade Verdugo, Rule 5 2024), W.Gonzalez (DD,added 40-man Nov.2023), Dobbins (Bloom, Rule 5 2024), Priester (Breslow, trade Yorke July 2024, added), I.Coffey (Bloom)
AA
Rodriguez (Bloom), Paez (Bloom), Monegro (Bloom, if they save it, Rule 5 2024), Sandlin (trade Schreiber, Breslow), Wehant (Bloom), Earley (Bloom)
A+
Valera (Bloom), Mullins (Bloom),Dean (Bloom),
The college picks from this year will start at A and A+, extending that list.
The key is helping these kids develop…
Yea that’s my point. Bloom mostly drafted High School guys until the last two drafts when he drafted some college arms. Hunter Dobbins was drafted in the 8th round of the 2021 draft but he was coming off injury so it has taken him a little more time. It takes time when you draft young guys. International guys take time as well. We will be seeing Bloom guys coming for the next several years.
Lets talk in the next 5 years as all the talent matriculates. It is only then you can grade Boom’s draft and international acquisitions.
Trollfree
Bloom destroyed the farming system?
Looks like you’re not yourself…
Which pitchers Dombrowski drafted from 2015 to 2019 that were successful during this period?
These are Dombrowski’s pitching credits from 2016-2019 in the draft and international signings:
2016
J.Groome 1St round – 26 Age (vegetates with Triple AAA 5IP in 2024 Padres, failure)
B.Mata IFA – 25 Age (perpetual injuries the last 4 seasons, failure)
M.Shawaryn 5th round – 29 Age (Not played 2022, 2023, 2024, failure)
S.Nogosek 6th round – 29 Age (vegetates with Triple AAA Washington, 9.77 ERA 2024, failure)
2017
T.Houck 1St round – 28 Age (solid number 2 in 2024, success)
K.Crawford 16th round – 28 Age (full season in 2023, 4.04 ERA, 16th round success)
B.Bello IFA – 25 Age (the ceiling of a potential ace is currently more like number 3/4)
Z.Schellenger 6th round – 28 Age (Not played 2022, 2023, 2024, failure)
2018
D.Feltman 3rd round – 27 Age (Not play 2024, failure)
T.Ward 5th round – 27 Age ( vegetates with Triple AAA Washington, 5.61 ERA, failure)
A.Ramirez IFA – 23 Age (was traded in 2021 for Schwarber, a good deal for Bloom, vegetates with FCL Washington 2024, failure)
A.Bastardo IFA – 22 Age (was in development for double AA in 2024, TJS in May, will appear in 2026)
W.Gonzalez IFA – 22 Age ( in development in double AA, ETA 2025)
2019
N.Song 4th round – 27 Age ( Not played 2024, failure)
C.Murphy 6th round – 26 Age (TJS 2024, will appear in 2025, debuted in MLB in 2023 4.91 ERA)
L.Perales IFA – 21 Age (was in development for double AA in 2024, TJS June 2024, will appear in 2026)
That’s not awful for four years. One of the two first round picks, one IFA, one late round pick, and a couple IFAs who might still be good. Decent top talent, though could have used greater quantity.
Bruin1012
The Troll’s argument is serious – Story didn’t win a Golden Glove, so he’s worse than Bogaerts. Ha ha ha, what childish arguments.
That’s like saying Jeter was the best defensive shortstop because he won 5 Gold Gloves with -165 Rds!!! , and Simmons is the worst because he won 4 Golden Gloves with +201 Rds!!! for his career.
But we all know how Jeter won 5 Gold Gloves while being one of the worst defensive shortstops of his generation.
Yea it’s an asinine argument everyone knows.
Troll please point out in the above tweet where I said he had gold caliber defense. I did say he was the best defensive shortstop right now in the Red Sox entire system and I think that is true. I did say he plays outstanding defense based on advanced statistics that’s true. I said he was an excellent defender I think that’s true. You know what I didn’t say I didn’t say gold glove caliber but even if someone wants to say that I’m not going to argue his defense is excellent. Now if I said that gold glove winning shortstop Trevor Story that would be a falsehood the rest not so much.
Trollfree
First of all, the Bruin didn’t claim that Story is a Gold Glove caliber player on defense; I have not seen a single tweet making such a claim.
Secondly, you argued that Bogaerts is a better defender than Story based on his career opportunities as a SS –
Bogaerts 11680.2 Inn, 5095 Ch, -54 Rdrs, -31 OAA, -21 FRV, 105 ER, .979 Fld, 677 DP
Story 6686.1 Inn, 3256 Ch, +79 Rdrs, +26 OAA, +21 FRV, 69 ER, .979 Fld, 506 DP
You still haven’t provided the facts in which place Bogey is a better defender than Story, I provided expanded characteristics.
I watched a lot of games played by Bogey and Story, they are both athletic and athletic, but Storey’s defense is an order of magnitude higher, which is confirmed by the advanced characteristics.
Story’s actions are very smooth and he gets to balls that Bogey can’t even get close to.
I’d say Story is closer to a Gold Glove defensively than Bogey is to an average defense.
I like both players.
Trollfree
Worst full defense season of Story on a SS:
2018 – 1372.2 Inn., 626 Ch, 13 ER, 92 DP, .979 Fld, +7Rdrs, -6 OAA
Best full defense season of Story on a SS:
2019 – 1275.1 Inn, 606 Ch, 8 ER, 90 DP, .987 Fld, +21Rdrs, +18 OAA
Worst full defense season of Bogey on a SS:
2017 – 1310.1 Inn, 552 Ch, 17 ER, 75 DP .969 Fld, -11 Rdrs, -16 OAA
Best full defense season of Bogey on a SS:
2022 – 1249.2 Inn, 581 Ch, 10 ER, 78 DP, .983 Fld, +5 Rdrs, +5 OAA
Note about the Golden Glove on a SS NL
Story Rockies 2019 –
1275.1 Inn, 606 Ch, 8 ER, 90 DP, .987 Fld, +21Rdrs, +18 OAA, +14 FRV, +2.8 dWAR
Ahmed Diamondbacks 2019 –
1381.0 Inn, 632 Ch, 13 ER, 79 DP, .979 Fld, +16Rdrs, +17 OAA, +13 FRV, +2.3 dWAR
Interestingly, Story surpassed Ahmed in all defensive metrics, but didn’t receive a Gold Glove…
Why???
Another guy that we don’t talk about but is quietly having an excellent season is Mikey Romero. The thing that shocks me about this guy is the amount of power he is displaying. The ball really jumps off his bat and he just seems to get better and better. The guy can flat out hit. He stated late again still recovering from the back injury and he was rusty to start from May 7th to the end of June he hit .239/.292/.381 he was struggling to get his timing down he just didn’t look very good. Then after July 1st until now he’s hitting .325/.361/.643. What has been so shocking to me was how hard this guy hits the ball. He doesn’t walk much but he has a serious knack to barrel the ball. His last homer he hit was on a curveball that he broke a ton he tracked and managed to get under it despite the ball being at his ankles and hit a line drive homer 380 feet. This is a guy to watch moving forward. He’s not slowing down in AA either he’s hit 3 homers in his 5 games at the level and seems like getting a at least one hit in every game. We have a couple more weeks to watch this guy but the recent results are quite encouraging. I thought this guy might be a line drive hitting singles hitter but that isn’t the case he’s got real power this makes him a very interesting prospect moving forward.
He was slowed by injuries, but is now hitting his stride. Great to see that!
Romero was near the top in bat speed at the MLB combine before he was drafted.
All I had no idea about Romero since he has been so injured pretty much this is the only time he hasn’t been injured and boy does he have swing with the idea of doing damage. I was just so surprised by his power since I expected a guy with a line drive hit tool and he does hit quite a few line drives hard but he also hits a lot of balls in the air and he hits the ball hard. This guy lives to swing he seems loathe to take a walk but he doesn’t chase much it seems.
Once again reading comprehension very poor I simply pointed out a trend since getting back to health it took the guy a month or so but he’s hitting very well. Everything I said is true period end of story. I recognized he started the season late due to recovering from injury that’s a true statement, I said he started slowly showing his slash line for the month and half of games and it was bad those are facts. I then said he really started to hit from July 1st on his slash line was outstanding he was rightfully promoted to AA and he’s continued to rake. These are all true statements I can’t help you are so biased against anything Bloom did that you can’t acknowledge any player he’s drafted.
How about this Johstynxon Garcia, a DD guy has had a really nice breakout season he’s looked very good. He hits the ball very hard he also doesn’t walk much but makes a lot of hard contact. DD did a bang up job in signing him. He has the look of a nice ascending player.
Lol! Great looking prospect, showing some helium, but we’ll NEVER figure out how to spell that name. Worse than Yastrzemski!
You see KD I watch the games and when I notice someone start to standout I make note of it. After watching them standout I then go back and look at trends statistically. If the statistics support the trend I witness then I comment about it since most people including you don’t watch the games. I especially like to comment when I’m surprised like how much power Romero actually has. I’m quite sure if you actually watched some games you would be impressed as well but the who knows he is a Bloom guy so he could turn into a perineal all star and you’d still find reason to complain with your biased point of view.
Please tell me what the un-factual data I quoted on Mikey Romero is. Was it the slash line till the end of June nope those are facts is that the slash line from July 1st on nope those are facts. Is that I said he was a very interesting prospect moving forward it’s not like I said here’s another top 100 prospect I simply said he a very interesting prospect. Geez trying to put words in my mouth. I simply say when you actually spend time watching these prospects come talk to me because you have no clue what you’re talking about and we all know stats can lie especially in what a future player can be. The only exception to this is in your world you can look at a 20 year olds batting average and say he sucks. Congrats what a talent you have. You should sell your amazing services to every team because you can look and a batting average or the amount of errors someone has and determine he sucks or not.
For sure, interesting. I tend not to take A ball stats too seriously, though, and he only just reached AA.
Bruin
I’m very disappointed…
Professor of baseball science Troll buried Mayer’s hopes of making it to the Major League and we won’t see him there, aha ha ha
I’m not surprised…
If he tells stories that Bogi is a better short-stop defender than Story, I think comments are unnecessary
.
Boogie he has no clue. I am concerned about Mayer but it’s due to his injury history not his on field performance.
KD17: if you can’t actually measure a players development (because you can’t) then you also can’t say he’s behind or a failure or doomed to fail.
Timelines vary…
Duran was drafted in 2018, didn’t put it together in the majors until 2023. And he was a college pick! High school picks typically take a couple years longer.
The Mariners signed David Ortiz in 1992, days after his 17th birthday. Didn’t reach the majors until 1997 and didn’t become a star until 2003.
Sometimes good things are worth waiting for…
You like to play with trolls, don’t you? Must make you a troll too
Huh?
Acell’s been after me, so I’m after him now
What can he say then? You cherry pick stats too
I won’t apologize for actually watching the games and seeing things that shock me. The fact is we didn’t know what Romero was due to injury he had pretty well publicized back issue it was so bad that people who paid attention to news on these young players were generally concerned about his back because it just wouldn’t heal. Finally this season he has healed since I watch so much minor league baseball I see the interviews it was sometime in late June that he did an interview and he said I finally feel like myself I can finally show what I can do it was after that he went on a tear and is still on a tear. There’s nothing made up in that statement it’s all facts.
You don’t personally attack people that’s complete bs you do it all the time the difference is I don’t back down when you attack I attack right back. Your a classic can dish it out guy but whine like a baby when someone dishes it back. I guarantee you attacked at least one person in this article but I don’t think you realize you do it. Just know I will never back down it’s not in my nature never has been. Someone tries to bully and I rip them that’s what you try do you try and bully it will never work with me. Go ahead tell me you don’t personally attack people and I’ll point out everyone besides me you personally attack you do it all the time.
I’ve told you my philosophy on prospect evaluation and it’s a hell of a lot more than looking at some old school stats. When you can bring some visually educated evidence to the conversation I’ll listen but when regurgitate a stat to help your crusade against everything Bloom just go away you don’t want to deal with me stop commenting on what I see then verify statistically before I comment on it. If you want to continue I’ll just continue or you can just go away.
I don’t believe I exaggerated what he is doing? I said he was slowed by injuries (just 230 PA the last two years combined) and is hitting his stride. Quality numbers at Salem, if still flawed plate discipline.
I can appreciate progress from a prospect without thinking he is the second coming, or penciling him into the 2026 ML lineup… Heck, I was talking up Yorke earlier this year, and he STILL doesn’t look like anything more than a second division starter.
Guess everybody draws their own line somewhere. I probably set the bar lower than most, following prospects who MIGHT be something some day if they can take two or three steps forward.
Baseball America lists the Red Sox with an incredible *six* top-100 prospects in their latest update. Roman Anthony #2, Mayer #11, Campbell #25, Teel #26, and then Montgomery and Arias to round out the list. I’ll be interested in the SoxProspects opinion (their update is at the end of this week), but they’ve already indicated that Campbell will be rising. Nor is it hard to imagine Arias jumping over the flailing (if talented) Bleis and the injured Perales. The FCL MVP and holding his own in full-season ball at the age of 18.
Note that Baseball America owes nothing to the Red Sox, and in the past has rated the Red Sox system poorly. Prospect evaluation is an art as much as a science, but I would consider them at least a neutral opinion.
Arguable that the Red Sox have the strongest collection of top talent in the majors, with four prospects in the top 30 as well as the #2 overall.
Dare I observe that five of those six names were Bloom signings?
Yea tff Bloom may have done a lot of things but destroying isn’t one of them. He was building a legit pipeline. There will be guys coming for years. To early to rate the Breslow guys but especially in the last two years that Bloom drafted it appears he did a really good job. Now what he did with the big club that can be argued about the farm not so much.
It’s not just these guys tff the top 30 is loaded very deep system.
Any of the top thirty would have made the top ten about five years back…
Bruin1012
The Red Sox will finally have enough SP depth at Triple-AAA in Fitts, Priester, Dobbins, Wikelman, I.Coffey in 2025 that has been lacking in previous seasons.
I can see Breslow making a deal for a #2/3 starting pitcher – it would be logical to clear the roster a bit
40 men for prospects who have made the leap this season – Campbell, Anthony.
I think they’ll have a strong spring training in 2025 and crack the 26-man roster, at least one of them for sure, unless the Red Sox think about doing a control manipulation.
“ destroying the farm”
Did you catch yesterday’s performance from Quinn Priester? You know, the guy whose acquisition has had the pitchfork mob out in arms?!?
He’s been getting monster whiff rates on his slider and changeup, and the velocity has ticked up on his fastball/sinker. Over his last four starts he has 8.24 K/9, a minuscule 0.92 BB/9, a 3.20 ERA and 3.50 FIP. But even that belies the quality of yesterday’s start, 6 IP, 4 H, 0 BB, 8 K.
Fitts has been on track since the start of August, a 2.38 ERA over that span. But Priester has a higher ceiling, in my opinion, if he can get his consistency down.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see both of them once the team gives up on this season. They are ready for a taste of the majors.
I sure did by my count he had 13 swings and misses mostly on his slider. It was the best start he has had in Worcester uniform. He was really good they were also pounding his sinking fastball into the ground. He didn’t use his excellent curve much but when they did they just looked at it as it dropped in. It’s obvious that the pitching lab wants him to continue to develop that slider. His fastball appeared to sit around 93 but with heavy sink. His slider was filthy though. He’s really been pretty good since his first outing with Worcester when he got shelled.
I also saw Romero hit a bomb to right center very loud contact.
I read Priester is supposed to add muscle in the offseason.
He can use it for sure, the major league season is a long grind.
Positive moments for me this season –
Duran is showing MVP level play and has become a team leader, Hauck’s breakthrough as a starting pitcher, Anthony’s progress, development of Abreu, Rafaela, Hamilton, progress of Wong in attack, Verdugo trade looks very promising for the Red Sox.
A pleasant surprise is Campbell, who has made the leap from A+ to AAA and isn’t slowing down, Duran’s elite center defense.
Negatives – Sale’s trade, which was a disaster for the Red Sox in the short term, injuries to Story, Casas, lack of progress from Bello, Wong’s defensive regression, Perales TJS, another Mayer injury.
If they weren’t going to extend Sale, then trading him made sense. They didn’t get a good return, though, as they failed to anticipate his rebound year.
I disagree somewhat on Bello, I believe the picture is more nuanced than that. First, he has improved his K rate and HR rate, both needed developments. His FIP improved from 4.54 to 4.33 and his xFIP improved similarly. The Pitching Bot and Stuff+ models also show improvement, with the Pitching Bot model climbing from a 4.40 ERA to a 3.70 ERA and the Pitching+ model improving from 98 to 104. Another way of saying that is that he has upgraded his arsenal incrementally, from below average to above average.
The natural retort is, “Show me the numbers!” If it doesn’t translate to actual ERA, then what is the point? And in fact it *has* translated to on-field performance. Going back 12 GS to the start of July, he has a 3.95 ERA, 3.79 FIP, and 3.53 xFIP with a strong 70.2 IP averaging just under 6 IP/GS.
Over that span, Bello is #8 in the majors in innings, clearly carrying a full starter’s load at this point. He is #33 in the majors in park-adjusted ERA, despite questionable defense behind him, and #24 in the majors in WAR. In short he has been pitching like a solid #2 over the last two months. Better than Houck, for that matter, though of course Houck was tremendous in the first half of the season.
If you look at the season overall, Bello might be a little behind Crawford. But if you look at how each has progressed, and look ahead to next year, Bello now stands as the clear #2 in the rotation, ahead of both Crawford (#3) and Pivetta (#4).. He remains the youngest pitcher on the team, and is not yet into his prime years.
tff17: Great post!
tff17
I was hoping Bello would be good all season, but with the progress of Houck and Crawford, 2025 should be encouraging.
By the way, the Red Sox added Guerrero to the 40 men today.
Saw that, and he got into the game today! We’ve seen worse out there for sure, hope they give him a real chance.