Pirates lefty Marco Gonzales will undergo surgery to repair the flexor tendon in his left elbow, the team announced to reporters Wednesday (X link via Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette). Additionally, right-hander Hunter Stratton already underwent knee surgery to repair the ruptured patellar tendon he recently suffered. Gonzales’ procedure will be performed in early September and comes with a recovery timetable of nine months to a year, while Stratton’s procedure was completed today. He’s projected to need seven to ten months to be ready for a return to a big league mound.
Pittsburgh acquired Gonzales in a trade with the Braves this offseason, taking on $3MM of the veteran lefty’s $12MM salary in the process. (Atlanta had taken on Gonzales’ contract as part of their deal to acquire Jarred Kelenic from the Mariners.) A pair of forearm injuries will ultimately limit Gonzales to only seven starts for the Bucs — the first five of which were quite effective. The 32-year-old notched a 2.70 ERA over 26 2/3 frames in that stretch, fanning 17.3% of his opponents against a 5.5% walk rate. In his final two starts with the Pirates, however, Gonzales yielded nine runs on 15 hits and five walks in only seven innings.
The Bucs technically hold a 2025 option on Gonzales, but that’s priced at $15MM and comes with no buyout if the team opts to decline it. Given Gonzales’ recent injury troubles and the now lengthy rehab period he’ll face following surgery, it’s a foregone conclusion that the team will decline the option and make Gonzales a free agent. He’ll likely be ticketed for a minor league deal in free agency.
Injuries have held Gonzales to only 17 starts and 83 2/3 innings over the past two seasons, but prior to that the lefty was a fixture in the Mariners’ rotation. Seattle acquired him from the Cardinals in a straight-up swap for then-prospect Tyler O’Neill, and Gonzales quickly cemented himself in Seattle’s rotation thereafter. From 2018-22, Gonzales started 131 games for the Mariners, tallying 765 2/3 innings of 3.94 ERA ball with a 17.6% strikeout rate and 6% walk rate.
While Gonzales’ injury likely ends his tenure with Pittsburgh, that’s decidedly not the case for Stratton. The 27-year-old will finish the current season with just over one year of big league service time, meaning he’s controllable for five seasons beyond the current campaign. Given the solid nature of his results in 2024, Stratton has likely pitched his way into a future role with the team, so long as he can make a full recovery from his knee injury.
Dating back to last year’s MLB debut, Stratton has pitched 49 2/3 innings for the Pirates, during which he’s turned in a 3.26 ERA with a 21% strikeout rate, 4.9% walk rate and 41% ground-ball rate. He’s averaged 95.6 mph on his heater, done a nice job at dodging hard contact and recorded a hearty 12.6% swinging-strike rate that suggests some growth in his strikeout rate remains possible.
If Stratton is able to return on the short end of the team’s provided timetable, he’d be ready for game action near the end of spring training next year. That might ticket him for an early stint on the injured list, but a return in April would be feasible. If he skews closer to the lengthier end, a summer return would still be in the cards.
Waiting on YourDreamGM to gush over how brilliant the Gonzales trade was…
A+ anticipation.
For his D+ response.
That’s harsh. I like that Dream is playing along and still A+ ing every Pirates move.
Terrier-A+ post
every team makes mistakes in trades, I imagine
Gonzalez was worth the gamble
Paul-They only paid him $3M this year and gave up nothing for him.
He was a good pitcher as late as 2021 or 2022 and has had arm problems since.
It certainly was worth the gamble.
His career may very well be over though.
You ask I delivery! A+. He was free! If he never pitched a game or was awful it’s not a losing trade. You shrug your shoulders and say we took a gamble and it didn’t work out. 2 something era until his elbow exploded. If his shoulder gave out I could see questioning the medical advisors. I’m not a war guy but he has a 0.5 war apparently. 5 innings 1 run. 6 innings 2 runs 6 innings 2 runs 5 innings 1 run 4.2 innings 2 runs. Other than his last 2 starts before his elbow went he was good. A+
Can’t say I am surprised to see a bunch of casuals think this was a bad trade.
Braves: You want a free starting pitcher?
Bucs: Is there a catch?
Braves: Nah, we really don’t need him.
Bucs: Sounds good. I’d be an idiot to turn down basically free pitching.
NewBuco. I am sorry for sleeping with your spouse and running over your dog.
I heard a country music song one time that a good friend of the singer made off with BOTH his wife and dog.
He sang that he missed his dog.
Brutal injury for Stratton. Hope that he’s able to come back.
Stratton was not a high level prospect but worked his way into a good relief pitcher.
This is a pretty bad injury and let’s hope for the best for this guy.
The entire management team has to go.
Fire Shelton and Haines.
And Cherington at a minimum
I envy Shelton. I never had such a well-paying job that I was totally incompetent at and couldn’t get fired from. We all should be so lucky.
do you think Cherington is hiring other incompetent people without baseball coaching experience?
I would submit an application
Cherington may not be hiring anybody sooner rather than later.
This game was an utter embarrassment to an historic organization.
There is no better time to fire people than now.
No one outside of Williams and Pirates ownership knows what Shelton is paid and for how long.
After today’s loss, everyone associated with management of the Pirates should be out the door, including the front office. The most sickening loss in years
Here’s a suggestion for Shelton: take some pointers on how to effectively use your bench from a college coach. Or high school coach.
And can anyone tell me how IKF is playing shortstop? In the 9th inning alone, no range left, no range right, and the ball he does get to he mishandles. Your better shortstop is playing 2nd?
Might as well kept Cruz there
As for Marco, he’s a tender flower. But to some, an “A+ signing”
I mentioned this on another Pirate thread and is worth repeating
People who post their thoughts about this team have often suggested that it’s time for Cutch to retire because he’s often injured during the latter stages of the season
He’s a far better lead off hitter than IKF, has a far better eye at pitches and draws more walks than anyone else on the team in the lead off position
IKF strikes out too much in that position of the lineup
IKF, as SenorFigs has said, doesn’t have the physical ability to play shortstop. His defensive range in either direction lacks any depth. For all of Cruz’ faults, his range probably would have saved runs in the 9th inning of today’s game
Replacing Taylor at left field cost us runs also because he is unfamiliar with that side of the outfield, and proved it today
Allowing Taylor to bat down 4 runs instead of using De la Cruz is yet another Shelton blunder. All Taylor did in his lone plate appearance was swing at 3 pitches nowhere close to the plate to secure his 100th strikeout for the season
Even substituting Williams to play shortstop in the 9th inning would have been better than keeping IKF there and not using Gonzalez to hit for either McKinney who struck out 3 times today or Williams who also struck out 3 times when you’re down 4 runs suggests that Shelton has no idea of how to manage a team
The announcers said that this was the worst loss by this franchise since 1903, being ahead by 7 runs and allowing the opposing team to score 11 unanswered runs
1903. Shelton should congratulate himself, he made the record book in this franchise history
They apparently gave up on Peguero. You even have folks saying he sucks here. The kid is not Derek Jeter but at least he brought some fire. And he couldn’t have done worse than what we saw today
It’s 7:10. How does Shelton and his staff still have jobs?
I remember a game in Philly in which they blew a 10 run lead. Jim Rooker said he’d walk back to Pittsburgh if they lost that game, and he did so after the season
Shelton and his staff should be made to walk to Cleveland after this one
I prefer them walking the plank
Peguero is going nowhere and shouldn’t.
Other changes are fine.
They have nothing to lose at this point.
Peguero is a walking error who is lazy af.
Then what he showed here at the beginning of his time here last year was an aberration. Errors? Laziness? He’d fit right in here
He’s one guy I didn’t see it from but if you’re right, good he stays at Indy
I would put it a little kinder.
He is too non chalant.
I think that he,like many,have talent,but do not want to work to get better.
I also think that he may think that he is doomed to play in AAA and has little incentive to get better.
Worst trade of Cherington’s career here but I think that it was a salary dump pure and simple.
Cherington has not been good in getting the younger players that he has acquired in trades to improve substantially.His development system for position players has never really worked.
According to Peguero manager he has greatly improved defensively this year. I don’t watch much AAA so have no idea but no reason to lie about it so I would say it’s true.
Unfortunately,as you and I have mentioned before,his hitting has been mediocre as he has not improved.
He has also struck out a fair amount.
Munson may very well be better than Haines so he does not have that excuse.
I like it that these guys have to prove that they can hit in AAA before earning a promotion.
If Cruz works out in CF there will be an opening at shortstop so he may missed his chance.
His manager said the same thing about his hitting. PC improvement but not like his defensive improvement. Translation can’t hit a lick still. No improvement.
Chapman has proven on more than 1 outing this season that he is effective for ONLY 1 inning. He got out of the 7th with no problem. When he went out for the 8th, the wheels fell off. Bednar 2024 is NOT the Bednar of 2023. Was the lack of any Spring Training for him the issue; or is he “injured”? Put him on the DL. That will solve it!
Champman himself said he is at his best 1 inning only. Pirates knew this when they signed him and why he only pitches 1 inning.
I think he’s carry too much bulk. Maybe due to missing most of spring training but wouldn’t be surprised if he’s 15ilbs lighter next season.
No more Joe Tellez Williams and Grandad anymore. Call up Cook and York. Play Bart at 1st call up delay
Nick G 2nd
Yorke 3rd
Cruz cf
Cook LF
Reynolds DH
Davis C
Bart is on the 10 day IL but I would just release Taylor and eat the remainder of his salary
He’s not worth a roster spot
Agreed bigdaddy, but I have to tell you that while Williams is some strange morph of Jackie Hernández and Clint Barmes at the plate, that game is a win if he’s at short, despite some incredible blunders by the manager.
But Jackie Hernandez will forever be known as the starting shortstop on a World Champion Pittsburgh Pirates team.
That’s the point, Mendoza. Guy hit .200 but had a solid glove. You mean there’s no place for a guy like that in some capacity?
How he was placed at 2nd today is inexplicable
I believe that you have said in the past not to keep him because he cannot hit.
You said not to keep him because the Pirates. need hitting.They needed him because Cruz was so bad.
If you said this I see your point.And he needs to hit at least 240-250 to start at SS.
I doubt that he ever will
Needless to saythat there seems to be an opening next year at SS.Cruz to CF could be an excellent move,but part of that is to get him away from SS.It does open up another open position though.
In Shelton’s defense,he has not had much time with IKF and may not have realized his deficiencies there.
Don’t know that I said they didn’t need him. That’s TheMan3’s line
Just noted he was a weak hitter
10-4 my fault.I apologize.
I get you two good lookin’ guys mixed up.
It was Gonzalez’ and De la Cruz’ scheduled day off, which makes no sense to me
Gonzalez just recently returned from the IL and De la Cruz had been one of the team’s best run producers as of late
Plus Thursday is an off day if I am not mistaken
Players can have all the scheduled off days Shelton wants to give them when the season ends
If anyone should have been given a day off, IKF would have fit the criteria as he has been a strike out machine batting lead off recently
My issue with Williams is that he should never be in the starting lineup, because he brings nothing of substance to an offense that is already struggling to score runs
Like Taylor, Williams should only be a late inning defensive replacement and only when they have a lead.
Using either as starters won’t generate much offensive value
Paul- I agree.
And if the Pirates had competent fielding shortstops in front of him they would not need him at all.
He is one of the players on the cusp regardless.
That tells me that the computer and the medical staff dictate who starts.
And that is Cherington not Shelton.
Let’s say for arguments sake you’re right that it’s BC writing the lineup and not Shelton, is the latter who makes in game decisions on his own or is he in contact with Ben to decide what players are being substituted including pitchers?
If Cherington is controlling the entire game why even have a manager?
LinkedIn · Radley Haddad
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Radley Haddad – Game Planning & Strategy Coach – Pittsburgh Pirates
Yorke probably doesn’t have the arm for 3b. Davis can’t catch. But some coaching coaching and reps you never know. One winter of outside help improved him more than the Pirates did. Most scouts didn’t think he could catch when drafted. The ones that did didn’t think he would be good. Pirates failed miserably with their development. There could be a catcher in him. Clocks ticking though.
I agree that you don’t want Davis catching everyday. It’s going to be Endy but if Grandad and his terrible pop up slide and bart terrible pitch framing it’s possible
Either nick or York have to play 3rd unless they run hayes out there you can have a glove 1st ss or 3rd but can’t have tons of them
I want Davis as starting catcher if he can catch. I don’t know much about catcher development. What you can and can’t do. From drafted to end of 2023 little to no improvement from what I could tell. No way this guy could catch. Umpire union would go on strike. I winter at a independent training facility and he was good enough to catch a few games a week if his bat came around. Could dh or something rest of games. 1b? I dunno. RF I dunno. He looked awful out there. I know he had no training. So if training can improve his catching maybe the same rf 1b. Point is it looks like the only way Davis makes it is his bat. If you hit they find a spot for you. Endy is the superior catcher. Can play there. If he hits above a 650 ops he can catch. Bart can catch better than I see Davis ever being. Low bar. Always a Grandpal Perez out there. Davis needs to hit. If he doesn’t he doesn’t have a position. Let another team have a shot. I think he can hit better than he has. But enough to ne a real factor I have doubts. I’m not it’s all Haines fault group but I’d try another hitting coach before I dfa a dozen players.
If they keep Davis catching Bart May be moved to first base as he is below average at catching.
I personally feel that it is difficult to be a good hitting and fine catcher at the same time unless you are absolutely blessed with both dissimilar talents.
I still think of course that Davis belongs in right field to maximize his hitting talent which seems to be clearly better than his catching talent.
If Cruz concentrates on refining his throwing accuracy and with Davis in right field there will not be many runners stupid enough to try for the extra base,
As for Yorke and Cook I would not be to excited until they come up this year and show something in the ML’s.
They arz gonna play BdC in RF next season after trading for him so Davis isn’t going back to the OF
Again, many “if’s”
They have the makings of a decent OF “IF” Cruz can make it work and the De la Cruz we’ve seen just recently has that pop in the bat
I think this is the direction they’re praying for
That leaves C/1B/DH
You may want Davis to catch but he’ll have to come a long way to supplant Endy. Or Bart, really.
How hard is it to transition to 1st? I’m saying not very
Some here think Cutch is done but I’m thinking he’s coming back and it muddies the waters. It may mean a guy like Davis is strictly a sub. And truthfully, if he can even show the ability for that, it’s a win
I can see in the park hrs though. Davis misplaying a ball or running into a wall. Ball just rolling around out there. Cruz smiling and just standing there watching. Eventually runs over picks up the ball fires it in late. Brownie says that throw was a 105.7 mph Cruz missile!!!! Wow!!!! Rock or KY chime in Davis is really improving as a outfielder. He only took 2 steps in instead of the usual 3 before he realized the ball was over his head. Sheltie gives them a pat on the but for their effort as they return to the dugout.
Hey. What does Gregory Polanco have to do with all of this? Why bring his style into it?
“How hard is it to transition to 1st? I’m saying not very”
It’s incredibly hard!!!!!!!!!! How do you not know this? They literally made a movie about how hard it is!
Dream- spot on post
I don’t know about that.He could be a trade candidate in a multi player deal.He has not shown anything more than any of the other players there have shown.
The key is that Shelton and Haines at the very least have to go.
If that does not happen things will not improve no matter what they do.
Cruz’ decision to throw home cost them 3 runs, instead of throwing to second or the cut off man.
When he went back to the dugout, fielding coaches spoke with him but Shelton never uttered a peep which has been the case all year when Cruz makes mental, throwing or base running errors
How did cost them 3 runs when 2 were scored that inning. If Grandpa catches the ball the runner might have been out and the guy from 2nd doesn’t move up to 3rd
Guy already scored by the time ball got to Grandpal.
I like that Shelton said he needs to get it to the catcher on a better hop. Fire them all Mr Nutting. You are in charge of a clown show.
Now if he didn’t throw home people would be complaining. Guy just touched plate as ball arrived. Idiot Shelton wants a long hop so Grandpal could handle it. Long hop takes even longer to get there. So horrible play to mention that on. Horrible to criticize a ss playing cf the 1st time with 2 days training non off days middle of season. Horrible to talk about it in the media at any time. Fire this clown now. But fire Cherington first.
What cost them the game was a lack of talent.
They take a guy who’s been a SS his entire life and 2 days later here’s Taylors glove now go play CF. It’s Cruz fault! He cost them the game!
Wait a minute. Here we have the great contradiction. We have folks talking about what spectacular athletes these guys are and then how this transition is incredibly difficult
But somehow Connor Joe plays there. And a couple years ago, the short kid who came over from Boston
Here’s the thing. The Pirates have inferior instructors. It’s clear they don’t develop at any level
And I loved IKF’s post game comments in today’s Trib. Cruz was a poor shortstop. This kid, worse.
What a franchise.
no mention of the fact that this pitching staff gave up 41 runs to the Cubs during their three game series
maybe BigDaddy will have a logical explanation or repeat his story about Cutch retiring after this season despite having no evidence to support his claim
IKF didn’t help the offense much in the series going 1 for 14 with 5 strikeouts, batting lead off
If anyone needed a day off, it’s him.
Gonzalez certainly didn’t, he just very recently returned from the IL
I just don’t understand Shelton’s logic for resting players or starting mediocre hitters when your team is near the bottom of the league in runs scored
Pitching staff needs to learn the Roger Beshens Football Slider. Or just the slider you throw like a football that’s been around as long as you guys that Roger is trying to take credit for.
Your right I don’t have any evidence its a hard conversation I would have with him if was the owner. Its more likely that he is back taking over the dh spot for 120 games making 5 million. Eventually Reynolds will be there long term.
We don’t have any depth ideally trilio and ikf are utilty players like josh Harrison and sean Rodriguez
I would rather have a 38 DH that knows the strike zone and draws walks and hits 16 homers ( so far) than most of the current bums on this team not named Cruz, Reynolds and Bart
difference between Triolo and IKF and Harrison and Rodriguez, the latter two knew how to hit for production
Triolo’s strength is his defense, I haven’t figured out what strength IKF has yet. It certainly isn’t range playing shortstop
Yeah, unless there is some miracle thst transforms this lineup and roster into big time hitters, I’m at a loss as to how you just pass on one of the few “dangerous” guys they have. Yeah, he may suddenly become a guy who needs a cane and one who gives Werthers candies to all the kids in the dugout but more likely, he’s more Mick Jagger.
I’d take the chance on the latter
Ikf if you combine his tortonto numbers is in line for his 3rd season with 100 plus hits he tied his career high in homers 8 he just isn’t running or getting rbis. His best defensive position is 3rd but he played cf in the playoffs for the Yankees you don’t want him playing everyday.
And given what we saw yesterday, I can say there are Legion players who could handle shortstop better than him. Incredible that Shelton put him there. No. Insane that he put him there and the better fielder at 2nd
I can’t count what IKF did in Toronto because he doesn’t play there anymore, my only concern is what he’s doing here.
I never said I didn’t want him playing every day
I don’t want him batting lead off or playing shortstop, 3rd base would work but Shelton has a love affair with Triolo at that position
And you can’t compare his playing CF for the Yankees with what he’s done here
do you really want Davis or any other player to play in winter ball? Endy played there last year and look how that turned out
I want them taking thousands of reps at positions they’re not really familiar with. Thousands.
Cruz in CF
Bart, Endy and Davis at 1st base
And then put these three behind the plate for catcher work, too
Then I want them getting thousands of swings with a hitting guru. Let’s have De la Cruz, Hayes and Nick joining the above. Thousands
But you’re right. Winter ball isn’t enough
Tell them to get apartments in Bradenton and that they’re spending the off season there
But it only works if they have competent instructors. So far, I’m not sure the Pirates have such coaching at any level
I’m curious about something and have been wanting to ask you because of your experience in baseball including your vast knowledge, SenorFigs
Is their a pitching machine that throws different types of balls, sliders, curves, changes, splitters, etc?
Batting practice from what I’ve seen is something lobbing a ball to the hitter who obviously hits it.
I would think that aggressive batting practice should consist of something other than soft tossing
Most assuredly. As I was leaving the coaching arena a few years ago, these machines were coming in. They don’t throw *every* type of pitch, mind you, but they’re not the machines that are straight fastballs dead red either
I have watched the Pirates taking batting practice, they didn’t use machinery, someone just tossed a ball in the direction of the batters box
I just don’t see how that format would improve a batter’s approach at the plate
It’s one of the reasons I have never watched the overblown Home Run Derby prior to the All Star game. It’s a joke
I’m guessing MLB types would tell you that their machines are under the stadium and that what we see pregame is just the opportunity to loosen up
@Paul Why would you ask a casual and not me? I don’t know if the Pirates have one. I would guess they do or will soon. Pitching machines now are robotics. You put the name of the pitcher you want to prepare for, select their pitch and it will come out at that speed and angle and spin rate of that pitcher. Even has a life size or close enough video of them so you can see their wind-up.
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/40401564/trajekt-arc-new-t…
There you go if you want to see one.
15 grand a month and must commit for at least 3 years. That’s why you see a guy on 1 knee underhanding balls to hitters in Pittsburgh! I kid. That’s just to work on mechanics and timing. Any advanced pitch machine would be indoors like figs said.
Casual? You may be a genius but I am no casual, sir, no matter what He Whose Head is Made of Wood thinks
Player. Coach. Instructor. Manager. And fan
But casual? Surely you jest
These things were coming around a decade ago. Saw one or something like it at a local hitting house and wondered how they could afford it. I see the price hasn’t come down. It’s like buying a car
Pro and college teams have them, I’m sure. No idea what would possess travel teams or hitting barns to purchase them other than being able to say they have a shiny new toy
Did the Dud, err excuse me; Dude call you a casual fan, SenorFigs?
I’m sorry for not including you in the question, Dream; at the time I asked he and I were already exchanging comments
It won’t happen again
Hey, genuflect when you say that, pal
No. Dream was referring to me as a “casual”. Just his biting wit again lol
I would apologize to Wood for my comment but won’t
Better question- When is the other moron going to demote Bednar to AAA to get his mojo back.
He is not a ML pitcher now.
much like they pamper Cruz, they will never demote Bednar due to his ties to the community being the local kid and his nickname of Renegade that excites the few rubes that stay around long enough to watch him blow another save
Paul- If they can move Cruz they can demote Bednar.It is about time that they quit posing and make serious changes.He may go to Indianapolis for a couple of weeks and come back with his confidence back.
This is one of the big reasons why BC realized that a second closer would be good to have.
And saying that,Carson Wentz went way downhill quickly when the Eagles drafted Jalen Hurts.I wonder if Bednar did the same thing when they signed Chapman.
I’m not disagreeing with you Mendoza, I just don’t trust this GM to make the right decision for the good of the team and would use any lame excuse to keep the status quo
He could have easily done that with Cruz.
There is hope in Mudville.
But who knows,it may not be Shelton’s decision to bring in Bednar.
Maybe their computer is using last year’s data.
I’m no defending Bednar. You’re right. He looks cooked. But it’s the 9th. Put a defense behind him. Up until the dam breaking open, it’s not like they knocked the cover off the ball. Joe made a nice play at 1st. Williams at 2 nd. But jeez, three ground balls to short?
Yes,but why wasn’t Williams playing short?You guys demean him to no end but he is a fine shortstop who should be playing there in the last innings.
Same as Taylor should be in CF in the late innings.
Neither one of these guys was signed for their hitting,
those are questions that only the great baseball mind of Derek Shelton can answer, Mendoza
Uh, I never had any feeling about Williams. In fact, I recently said there isn’t much difference between he and Hayes anymore.
No idea how he’s on 2nd and the brain trust puts IKF on short. Williams’ claim to fame *is* his glove and at short
I have said numerous times that Williams and Bae need to put on significant muscle.They have not.
It is just like Rowdy.He needs to get rid of 30 pounds of,er,non muscle to stay in the ML’s.
These guys have real talent that none of us ever had,but they are wasting it in not wanting to become as complete of a player as they can be.
Well of course, they’re pros. We never were
And most have some sort of personal trainer beyond what the team provides to keep them in shape
But it’s baseball. Out of football, basketball and hockey, it’s probably the least athletic sport. Most are in “baseball shape” and that’s the end of it from where they sit
I can’t speak for Williams. Maybe it’s weight as you say. Bae’s problem is the inability to hit heat. Pitchers don’t waste time with spin or off speed pitches on him. No need
As for Tellez, if some of that weight could come off between the ears, I’m sure it’d be of benefit
Williams went to Arizona state amazing weight training program. Rays, they know a bit about development. But apparently it was the Pirates who put 15 pounds on him. I don’t know where but that’s what Brownie or one of them said. Bring Tellez back. Eat like Rowdy. Don’t hustle. Try to add another 15 or 150.
Senor-A+ post Mr casual!
Nutting is over budget on the post game spreads.
That is the real reason that they cannot sign anyone next year.
A+ post young man.
I agree about throwing out the analytics, this team doesn’t have the talent to use it but if Cutch isn’t batting lead off, who is, Newbucco?
Cutch has that 10 game homestand starting next weekend through the 15th to play then his season and career is over. Push skenes back til the Washington series squeeze 2 home weekend starts to sell more tickets
you have said that repeatedly that Cutch is retiring after this season ends and without providing any evidence
Unfortunately for you, he told a sports reporter just this past week that he wants to come back next year and I am confident that Nutting will allow him to
Yeah, I think Cutch will come back and that poses an interesting problem for the front office
The DH/RF/1B/C merry go-round has he, De la Cruz, Endy, Bart, Davis and undoubtedly a low tier free agent signing vying for spots
Of course he wants to come back. Who doesn’t want to make 5 million to dh 100 games a year. He can’t play the field he can’t run anymore
I don’t see Davis as being a part of the future and wouldn’t be surprised if he was traded over the winter
Unless of course he makes a drastic change to his offense in the remainder of this season but from what I have seen, he’s still too impatient at the plate and swings at everything
We are watching Bart finally break out after years of struggling. They aren’t giving up on Davis
I don’t know, you keep telling us that Cutch is retiring this year and that’s not true besides they aren’t going to carry three catchers on the major league roster
using your analogy that players that are hurt and can’t run, Bart should retire too?
Cutch was healthy until just a few weeks ago, you make it sound like he’s been injured all season
Big- I agree with you.These guys are married to Cutch but I am afraid that he would either tie up a roster spot or continuously get hurt,but not bad enough to be on the 60 day IL.
He is still a reasonably good hitter at 37 but could quickly become very poor at 38 and embarrass himself.
This is a young team and they need to add a bona fide young DH who is a good hitter and move on.The Cutch novelty is over and I do not think at this point that he adds any leadership to the team.
Big- Nor should they.They jerked him around too much and he has earned a chance from his hitting in AAA.
Shelton uses the Tanner approach to managing. He had guys like Stargell and Bill Robinson to ensure professionalism. That’s not Cutch
Mendoza my friend, they’re not going to spend money on that bonafide DH you long for.
Instead, they’re going to hope to plug the guys they do have into aforementioned spots. I just don’t know that any of these guys have the ability to move the needle
Definitely not going to spend on FA especially since Reynolds Will inevitably take over that spot.
They will rotate the DH spot to keep guys fresh. Bart Endy Davis will rotate c and 1st.
I don’t know where the money will be spent but to me I want Ifk and Triolo has super subs not every day players.
BC will play RF and DH Reynolds LF DH cook DH Lf
If Davis doesn’t turn his offense around between now and the end of the season I think they will try and trade him this offseason
Bart this season has 5 more homers and similar RBI then Davis did last season
The fly in your ointment remains the number of outfielders they have. Can’t move Reynolds when Cruz will be work in progress
And why?
They actually have the makings of a decent OF if Cruz gets his head straight and De la Cruz gives them some pop
That leaves Bart, Endy, Davis
There simply has to be some thinking about moving one of those guys to 1st
And judging just by what I saw today, they need a shortstop. Stat
Senor- I agree with you on the money young man.
That is why if Cherington still has his job he needs to trade for one.
And,yes,most teams nowadays do what you say-plug regulars in to rest them.
The problem with the Pirates is that they need a bopper as DH because they are not going to outhit any team.
Listen,I like Cutch,and he may do decently next year,but if they sign him again and he is terrible it will not look good to bench him.
We do not know either if Cruz will work out in CFHe will not have a lot of time to learn the position.He has the raw talent to be very good at it.He seems to be taking to it.But DH would be a convenient alternative if he does not and if they do not want to teach him to play first base.
Big-Cook will have to prove himself first.
60 at bats in AAA do not cut it.
They need to put him on the roster or they will lose him in the Rule 5 draft.
But they got him for next to nothing and he must prove himself in the ML’s.
You have an interesting thought in the Bart,Endy,and Davis rotation.
And you are spot on on IKF and Triolo.
@Mendoza not next to nothing. A promising arm. Failed to make college rotation. So a low mileage arm. Was doing quite well as a starter in minors. Top 20 pirates prospect.
Fair trade. 2 systems exchanged strengths for area of weakness.
IKF makes too much money to be a part time player which could explain why he’s out on the field every game
Besides, Cherington has said that he’s coveted IKF for years and jumped at the opportunity to trade for him
Unless BC is fired this offseason, IKF will be an everyday player next season
yeah let’s just sell more tickets so Nutting can continue to line his pockets with money but not be concerned about the direction of the team overall
They are now 9 games below five hundred and are worse this year than last year and that’s not a very high bar
They have never had a winning season under current management and by all accounts and failures this year, management shouldn’t return for next year
The Cherington experiment must come to an end
Even if you fire cherington nothing changes unless your willing spend 110 million on payroll.
As I have said before our 2 best hitters Reynolds and Cruz would not start for any of the NL playoff teams except maybe the brewers. I think Cruz will be great in CF and i look forward to his extension
I believe once Jones learns to pitch we will have the best rotation in the NL. We have guys in the minors and cheap guys like oviedo who can get traded for hitters.
A lot to agree with here, especially with the idea that it all starts with Nutting
Jones? Agree 100%
Cruz? Let’s hope
If Cruz’ full potential comes to fruition and he gets tired of playing for a losing team, he may not accept an extension and instead go the free agent route to play for a winning team
firing Cherington would likely include Shelton and the entire coaching staff
This franchise needs new leadership and a new hitting coach. Haines has been the cause of too many players with potential to have become worse under his tutelage
Cruz isn’t even arbitration eligible yet is 1st year is in 26. Next season he is pre arbitration eligible he isn’t going to turn down a pay day early.
I really don’t think hitting coaches do much. Everyone has video on iPads in the clubhouse
Guess where I dissent from many others is that the Pirates consistently have kids who are clueless where the game is concerned
Suwinski hit 27 homers last year. His plate discipline was horrible. His knowledge of the strike zone and what a pitcher is doing even worse
Cruz is much the same
Davis still doesn’t know the strike zone.
Hayes is a sucker for a spin pitch off the outside corner
Beyond all this is the idea of simply understanding counts, realizing what the pitcher is doing—what’s working and what isn’t—what the umpire is calling
Yeah, a hitting coach can only do so much and with this flow of players—guys who should’ve refined things in the minors—it’s even tougher
Oviedo can be a good pitcher but they will not get much for him now until he proves that he can come back from TJ.
I do not usually get excited about prospects,I call them suspects,but I think that Harrington and Chandler are the real things.
The Phillies and Dodgers buy their players.It is not fair to compare the Pirates to them.
Both Reynolds and Cruz OPS is over 800 so they both must be doing something right.
The Pirates will spend $110M if they already have a good team.
Our entire team feeds off of fast balls none of them hit off speed stuff to save their lives. Part of it is because Hayes believes in working the count they never have a plan.
I mean they are going to have a rotation of
Skene Keller Jones Ortiz if they don’t spend 110 with that rotation then when will they have a good team. Harrington Burrows and Bubba are coming this time next year
you don’t know what goes on in the mind of Cruz, he might feel resentment for being moved to CF and want to leave this organization when the time comes
But predicting that he will accept an extension holds no factual basis until he gets offered one
That’s why Cherington and Shelton support Haines’ philosophy of hitting, working the count to get into the bullpen earlier
Other than the other problems with that logic that I don’t feel like mentioning, often times the bullpen is equally as good as the starters from the opposing team and by that time, we’re already down a few runs
Working the count is why Haines was fired as the hitting coach of the Brewers. Their offense actually got worse using his philosophy
And the players who are free swingers on the Pirates, and there are many, end up striking out when the count is full because they don’t know when to hold up
There’s a valid reason why they are on pace to break the team’s all time record of striking out set just 2 years ago and under this same hitting coach
Fun fact
MLB teams were 1192-0 in games they were winning by 7 runs going into the 7th inning over the last 7 years
until today
Great managing job, Derek!
Pirates struggle to copy what successful teams do and you want them to create some new strategy themselves! Good luck.
Grandpal and Tellez are 2 of their better players. Every team signs guys like this. They don’t deserve to be lumped in with the other’s you named.
Cherington made half a dozen trades at deadline. Don’t recall you giving any suggestions at the time. I gave plenty. Unfortunately most of them weren’t traded. You can’t trade for someone who isn’t available. A few the price was way to high on.
The way pitching fell off a cliff and team has played no trade deadline player would have made a difference.
I’m very sorry for your loss, Newbucco.
Let’s call a truce, shall we my friends?
Cmon guys. We have enough trolls on this site that can easily be muted. Shake hands and move on. I appreciate the folks who post here and learn a great deal from everyone, even those I disagree with, like Bright Eyes
But let’s not take a game that’s owned by billionaires and played by millionaires so seriously.
Trying would be extending the olive branch. Not bashing someones head in with it.
All you had to say was hey, I know you didn’t know but my wife passed away so attack me all you want but don’t go there. Something like that. You don’t have to say anything. I won’t go to that level. You might think I am arrogant but I’m not pure evil.
But everyone here knows I knew absolutely nothing about your personal life. Everyone knows the country songs about wife leaving taking the dog. Everyone knows the saying like why hasn’t Cooke been called up? He must have ran over Cheringtons dog. Heck I even used spouse. No idea if you were married or if you were what gender. Fact is though you weaponized your wife like I knew when everyone knows I didn’t. Rubbed me the wrong way and I don’t get angry but I got something and wasn’t very nice.
All that being said. I believe you and I would never said that if I knew. I was simply saying what the heck I do to this guy to deserve this kinda hate. By no means was it a personal attack. Hate me. Mute me. Try to get along. Whatever you want. No hard feelings on my end. Sorry to hear about your wife.
You two are great peacemakers. Good effort. He muted me before reading my I guess olive branch. I started off snarky. Can’t help myself sometimes. But I think I gave a solid effort. I tried. I wasn’t nice. Deserved the mute. Guy really really doesn’t like me. I wasn’t exaggerating. He’s been after me every day all year long. Good effort though guys. You tried. I’m not everyones flavor. He doesn’t like arrogance and I like to call it confidence. And I really ham it up sometimes ok most times. Never seen it upset anyone that bad.
If he muted you, that’s a shame for him, truly. I get a lot of insight from your posts and while it’s taken me a couple years, I think I understand the line between sarcasm and real, lol
Hope he reconsiders. He represents a lot of the frustration a great many older fans feel and wears his heart on his sleeve. I appreciate that
I’m just jaded more by how money and lust for more wealth has destroyed the pro and college levels to the point where I’d rather watch kids play at the local ball fields than get too consumed by what owners, front office types, managers and players do
I’m content with a .500 team and have said it many times. It’s all you’re ever going to get with this ownership and team
A day after the worst 3 game series in recent history including a complete meltdown of a 7 run lead and still the management of this pathetic team hasn’t been dismissed or have any of the most worthless players been released says all there is to know about an owner who’s only concern is spelled
M O N E Y
I can be a hole. Paul can verify for that. But next day it’s all good. I forgive and forget. I never talk to this guy though. I come to this article never even commented yet and he’s talking about me. I am like whatever I did I am sorry. Had no idea about his personal life. I was just trying to break the ice with a lil humour. Like come on? What did I do to you? Cut me a lil break. Can’t be that bad. Let’s be friends.
I’m a great friend. I took the time to find a article on the latest pitching machines. I seen a video about them somewhere. Can’t remember where I seen it. But I imagine the pirates have that or something like it or will shortly. I think that article is from this year but they been around for a few years at least. If they don’t have one well another reason to fire people.
Yes, especially when you call people who’ve defended you a “casual.” But I digress
Humor is wonderful but the written word on a message board sometimes gets lost in translation
Made a crack on the football site and was subject to a three paragraph diatribe that ended with the note that I should have a tilde in my moniker here (look it up)
Dear God
Again, taking the world of billionaire owners and millionaires that seriously. Sheesh
THAT game should have been the dam breaker. Seriously. Disgusting. Sickening. No amount of explanation from Shelton or deferring and deflecting blather from the players can suffice. The gutlessness is appalling
Media should have been all over it. Columnists should have been screaming from the rafters
But in this town, losing has become so ingrained that it’s almost accepted that you’ll have these things.
My two cents is that “humor” sliced with sarcasm at the very least comes out as sarcasm to most people.
Not everyone knows you on here.
This is the written word and there is no personal or sight interaction.
Even the ones that do “know” you sees the sarcasm.
I never say anything personal because we really cannot know others on a baseball site as being close to the actual.Hence,mistakes like this one.
Newbucco makes snap judgements,but I understand how some can take your posts that way.
Just use it as a learning experience as us geezers would.
If Shelton was any kind of a real leader, he would apologize then resign
There’s no valid excuse for first losing 10 games in a row then being the manager of the three worst games in recent history and blaming the lack of execution instead of accepting responsibility for mismanaging his lineup and bullpen
Paul- To some extent I see Shelton as defeated as I saw Clint Hurdle his last year.
Hurdle did not make the stupid mistakes that Shelton does but he had better players too.
I also think that he had more freedom in making decisions.He also was not a first time manager.
I feel sorry for Shelton because of his situation but I have said for three years that he will never have a winning team.
And unfortunately it seems that he has proven me right.
A good portion of why Shelton doesn’t have a good team is the coaching, which Cherington is on record of being a big supporter of Haines and his philosophy for the offense.
It’s a group failure and not just on Shelton’s shoulders
That said, he’s who the fans relate to and see most so it’s him who should start the dominos to fall and resign first
1. Yes you did mute me. When reply is no longer a option it means they muted you. Trust me. I have experience. I know when I been muted. Glad you unmuted me and heard my side. You don’t have to like me. Don’t have to talk to me. Put me back on mute if you want. No hard feelings.
2 That’s just kids. Rich kids get made fun of as well. A girl in my school was a model. On magazine covers. People made fun of her. Jealousy. From my experience the better looking, more wealthy, the more popular you are the more bullies you have. There’s simply more jealous people than truly awful human beings who make fun of people for entertainment. That’s why there is the saying kids can be cruel. Many don’t grow out of it. You were bullied. Congratulations. So was I. I bet just about everyone in here was. I was homeschool a large chunk of time. Think the homeschool kid didn’t bullied. Everyone spent the entire day together everyday and I would just show up to play sports. Kids are cruel. If there is nothing to make fun of you about they will make something up.
Yesterday’s game wasn’t even the most embarrassing of the three game series, though it’s close
No team in baseball history gave up 18 runs, 21 hits and 8 stolen bases since 1912 until Monday’s game
First it was the 10 game losing streak and now this debacle orchestrated by the worst manager in baseball. How does Nutting justify not firing Cherington, Shelton and the supporting coaching staff?
He fired Huntington and Hurdle with money owed to them after their late season collapse.
He needs to do the same with this bunch of clowns too
And yet, you don’t see the kind of loss they had yesterday in little league games. Mystery moves. Guys not in natural positions. Again, how does this manager and his staff keep their jobs?
I rarely hear Brownie ( announcer) bad mouthing this team after a loss but he shocked me after yesterday’s game calling it “ a historic loss “. It wasn’t so much of what he said, it was how he said it
I realize most here don’t like the sports media locally on the Fan, but all they talked about this morning was the embarrassment of this week against the Cubs and how Shelton has lost control of the locker room.
Even reporters from ESPN and MLB.com are wondering how this management still has their jobs
Nutting might not be involved in the daily operations but he has to know how badly this team has been since the trade deadline
One last thing, when Skenes is scheduled to pitch, attendance has been better than average, even during day games
Yesterday’s paid attendance was less than 14,000. It could be heat related but I doubt it. Or it could have that people don’t want to spend their money to watch their team crumble over a complete failure of management
Combination of the two, I think
People in the stands likely felt like they had to be scraped out of their seats. And lots of Cubs fans
But as for apathy, that too
Pathetic team. Apathetic players. Management that you wouldn’t want running your travel team. And assclown of an owner
I won’t watch again after yesterday’s train wreck anytime soon, let alone go to the ballpark
Newbucco…
Replied to your last posting regarding your life and youth. Apparently the moderators here didn’t like my agreeing with you and have it as “awaiting moderation”
The cowardice of media in this country—including this kind of thing-is outrageous
I completely agree, SenorFigs though the issue might have been a result of someone “ flagging “ your comment and not necessarily for the content of it by the moderators
There’s very few people who post here that I would consider sharing my personal life with and since it’s an open forum, there’s those that don’t care to know anyone’s history
Immediately went to “awaiting moderation” after posting. Echoed newbucco’s political aside
Gutlessness. Pure gutlessness
I understand, and will gladly agree with the specific echo without using words that could get my comment flagged
CBS sports has an interview with Mark Cuban and his take on why Nutting will never sell the franchise. It’s what everyone already knows but it’s also cool that other billionaires know why too
Cuban had an interview in the PG three years ago that was largely along the same lines. It flies in the face of those claiming poor Nutting is scraping by here
As Dream has said, he’s a financial hall of fame candidate. He is adept at trotting out the small market/small profit mantra in a moments notice.
I get that he can’t sign upper tier talent. He’d never recoup the money in this market and a smaller stadium. How could he even sleep at night?
But no one was ever asking him to sign Soto or Mookie. That he opts to go to the lower tier every time would be hilarious if so many didn’t believe his baloney
If you guys want free speech you are in the wrong party. It’s the trump trump trump trump I can say it as many times as I want and not get awaiting moderation who is for protecting free speech. Well his party. If it’s his party. He used to be with you guys. Excluding Mendoza who is independent. But no need to say small hands. You can trump trump trump all day long.
Now you can’t say the current president last name though. Go ahead and try and you will get awaiting moderation. Mlbtr is on your team! They don’t want people making fun of he who can not be named. But trump Trump Donald Trump all you want.
Don’t ban me mlbtr. I’m not Trump Trump Trump fan. I was just telling my friend why he probably got awaiting moderation.
I love he who can’t be named. He’s wonderful. Greatest president of all time. Please don’t ban me. MLBTR is fantastic. Just like you know who that I can’t say but wouldn’t if I could because he’s fantastic.
I’m going to use newbuco’s advice here and ignore this blather.
We both gave you some biographical background. As such, I’d hoped you’d take the high road. I was wrong
Hatred isn’t a strong enough word for me. But keep babbling, friend
Don’t blame me for your case of TDS. I’m a highly intelligent critical thinker. I’m not part of either of your guys lil parties. I don’t even vote.
It’s MLBTR sandbox though. If you want to play you play by their rules. They aren’t reading your every word instantly giving you awaiting moderation. You said a word they don’t want you to say. You simply change that word and it won’t say awaiting moderation. If you want free speech you can have it. Make your own website. Let people say whatever they want there. Go to Twitter. Elon spent a ton of $ for you to have free speech!
Actually,there should be no mention of politics or politicians.
This is a baseball site and I give them credit for being rigorous about that.
I would presume that there are political forum websites where one can make comments and as many as one wants.
Posts on articles on the current state of the Prates are sad enough without commenting on the current political climate.
Amen Mendoza
Thank you Paul.
Only idiots try to convince others to change their views. No one is changing their mind. Doesn’t matter who the candidate was you were voting r or d. All this advertising $ is such a waste. It could go to something useful.
I think it’s all part of the deep states plan. Keep us divided. If one party would just become pro choice. Or if the other pro gun. That party would dominate and win every time and there would be unity. Politician will tell you anything to get elected so the only thing stopping them is they don’t want us united. Don’t think the people do either. People like drama.
People are the problem. Primaries I see some good people running. They get 1 or less than 1 percent of the vote. And we end up with 2 of the most awful people in the country as our choices every year. Nice guys finish last.
Trump’s really easy to not like or hate. Awful person. But not why he is hated so much. Bush Doyle Bush McCain Romney. Say whoever you want as long as it’s he who shall not be named. All pretty much dems. Trump first guy since Reagan who actually leans they way of his party. I respect 1 thing about him. After the attempt on his life he could have played I am a changed man card. Nah he went right back to the mean tweets a hole he is.
Newbucco gave a heartfelt account about his childhood and life. I countered with my parents being Depression kids. My dad served in the Mighty Eighth Air Force in WWII, and three of his brothers and their cousins also served. My grandfather was bestowed a Purple Heart for wounds suffered in WWI.
Point was, I can relate to his story.
His post is still up
I should have simply agreed with his last line
As for your proselytizing, Mendoza, you’re free to skip over my posts, as is TheMan3
As stated above, I don’t get wrapped up in discussing sports run by billionaires and played by millionaires.
This is a different story
Senor-Not proselytizing.
Politics is like religion.
One can get into arguments either way.
I have found simple is better.
And I try not to overreact unless I see arrogant posters or trolls.
We’re good, Mendoza
I don’t see this issue as such but that’s fine
All the best to you, and TheMan
No worries.
Paul and I don’t sweat the small stuff.
We all almost go back to a time when we were all young men.
Thanks for reminding me that my youth is a distant memory
I dunno about you guys but I much prefer that sweet old man senor figs over this User 1286178995 guy.
What happened to your SenorFigs name?
It appears the SenorFigs name has went to hell and has been resurrected as User 1286178995
I wonder if his SenorFigs account was suspended because over his response to NewBucco
And I still wonder how this inept and incompetent management can still be employed after the worst month in recent Pirates history