Pirates outfielder Edward Olivares went unclaimed on waivers after last week’s DFA and was assigned outright to Triple-A Indianapolis, per the Pirates’ transaction log at MLB.com. As a player with more than three years of big league service, he has the right to reject the assignment in favor of free agency but will likely accept so as not to forfeit the remainder of his guaranteed $1.35MM salary. (A player needs five-plus years of service to reject an outright assignment and retain his salary.)
Pittsburgh acquired Olivares in a small trade with the Royals back in December, hoping he could continue or build upon the slightly above-average production he turned in with Kansas City over the past couple seasons. From 2022-23, Olivares — whom the Royals picked up from the Padres in exchange for Trevor Rosenthal back in 2020 — batted .270/.322/.439 with 16 homers in 559 trips to the plate. He’s never walked much but also offered lower-than-average strikeout numbers and some value on the basepaths as well.
Olivares has seen his walk rate increase to a nearly average 8.2%, but he’s hitting for far less power and has only attempted one steal this season (which was successful). He batted .224/.291/.333 in 196 plate appearances with the Bucs — about 26% worse than league average, by measure of wRC+. Olivares has plus arm strength — 93rd percentile, per Statcast — but has regularly graded as a poor defender in the outfield corners due to poor reads and poor range (despite slightly above-average sprint speed).
The Pirates’ deadline acquisition of Bryan De La Cruz helped push Olivares out of the picture (despite De La Cruz having a generally similar skill set). De La Cruz, Bryan Reynolds and Michael A. Taylor figure to get the bulk of the outfield playing time down the stretch in Pittsburgh, though an injury or two could always push Olivares right back into the mix.
As a player with three-plus seasons of big league service who’s now been outrighted off his team’s 40-man roster, Olivares will have the opportunity to become a free agent at season’s end unless he’s added back to the 40-man roster between now and then.
Depth piece.
yeah they need another player who strikes out more than he gets out base for depth
They ought to have advertise for a shuttle driver between Pittsburgh and Indy. You’d think that between their trades and the lengthy list of prospects they’ve had, they’d have found someone to play outfield here with a bit of pop in his bat, just through dumb luck. But all they have is Reynolds and a revolving door
Hmmm… I wonder why they don’t have any major league ready players at Indy, considering that Cherington has been the General Manager for 5 years and has had repeated top 10 draft picks
You’d think that with all of the prospects he’s obtained through trade someone would be of major league caliber by now
But ….. they don’t
I think it is time for Cherington to go.
He got us close to .500 for a while but I don’t see the Pirates competing with this GM, manager and staff.
it’s been time for Cherington to go and he can take Shelton and Haines with him
Cherington completed a rebuild as fast as anyone has and had the team right in the thick of the playoff race at deadline with the 2nd lowest payroll in baseball. Nutting probably extended him again.
He’s not the best gm in baseball but better than 20 others. If there is another available gm that’s better who do you think that person would choose to work for? The owner with the 2nd lowest payroll in baseball? What team would pay this new gm the most $? The one with the owner with the 2nd lowest payroll in baseball? Or one of tbe 19 other teams. Or do you believe Nutting who doesn’t pay attention to his own team let alone the other teams or Williams who comes from hockey are capable of find this amazing gm that none of the other teams know about?
Are better people available sure. Do they need better than 12th 14th best sure. Do I think Nutting and Williams can find them and land them? Lol
My beef with Cherington is his support for Haines over both having the same fundamental hitting style which obviously isn’t working.
Cherington should remain out of the way Shelton manages including writing the game lineups and the hitting coaches’ approach.
He’s too involved in that level of management
I would fire Cherington just for not firing Haines. But Bob and Travis don’t have a clue. Or it would be done already. These guys are so stupid they can’t see that hitters uprising against Haines. Calling him awful. Isn’t a problem. And fans want these buffoons to try and hire a better gm! Be happy they have Cherington because they could do much worse. Should be fired but I don’t have any faith in them finding someone better.
Red Sox fired him. But they had enough payroll to get Dave. Pirates can’t land a big fish or a medium fish or even a small fish. They land rotten fish that other teams don’t want.
Where’s Mendoza when you need him to question “rebuild?”
Let’s say it again to counter what really is becoming an inane defense:
This rebuild is akin to taking a ‘69 Chevelle SS, giving it a nice paint job and new tires and proclaiming it done
You forgot to put brakes on the thing, it leaks oil in three different places and the interior smells like someone puked in the backseat, but let’s congratulate Joe’s Garage and Pizza Emporium for a fine rebuild
Seriously?
You’re coming with this again?
Well, the Marlins just fired their assistant GM, he’s apparently available
Yes, Cherington has the Pirates so thick in the playoff race, they have now lost 8 games in a row thanks in no small measure for a horrible offense and overworked bullpen
But we should feel grateful that Cherington rebuilt this franchise so quickly from years of misery and mediocrity
It’s over frogs. Rebuild over. Time those red lights so you don’t have to break. What do you do during a rebuild. You trade away all your players who are going to be free agents. Frazier Stallings Marte Taillon Musgrove Bell check. That parts been over. Part 2 you lose a lot of games so you can draft high for multiple years. Check that part is done. You can’t lose 100 games with their rotation. 3rd part you get better player development. They failed at that and that’s the biggest problem. Well biggest problem is being a small market team. $ is the real problem. It’s not a fair playing field. 200 250 300 million vs 100 million or with Bob Nutting 86 million. To succeed you have to be able to out scout and out develop 25 other teams. You think Yankees Dodgers are only spending $ on free agents and ignoring scouting and development? See Taillon Holmes for that answer. So you keep trying to improve development but the failure so far already cost you 2023 2024.
So you try to get lucky in free agency. Robles Winker Pillar Rosario could have been had for free. You make a trade. But prospects are your life blood so a elite trade takes your always contend model to the Skenes Jones Keller Cruz Reynolds Hayes window. You forget Bubba TJ and black and gold trout and you win now and have another rebuild. Just remember teams get smarter every year. You can only have a lottery pick 2 years in a row. How would that impact the next rebuild. Well you would have drafted Davis in 21 TJ in 22 and in 23 you would be picking 10th instead of #1 and taking Skenes. So yeah the next rebuild won’t be as quick and easy. I prefer always contend but most people will do anything to save their job. So Cherington will trade away the farm to save his job if Nutting doesn’t stop him. Rebuild is over that is certain.
Seen those stats I gave you on Cruz and that was the end of them. They didn’t realize how awesome he was and need to find people that do.
Cleveland, Minnesota and the Rays are small market teams, they are competitive. Same can be said about KC
Difference as you pointed out, Dream, player development and scouting
are you referring to the Cruz who committed a fielding error that led to the go ahead run by the Padres last night?
Minnesota an entire state. Nickname twins because they literally have 2 cities of fans. They should easily be over 150. They should be called out.
It’s all development though. Even for Twins. 150 ain’t 250.
Let’s be real. You can’t compete with mega markets unless you are a large market. Small market doesn’t have a chance. Eventually you are going to draft a bust. Trade won’t work out. Skenes or Jones blows out their arm right before you were going to trade them and you get nothing. Something will mess you up.
Are you saying you want a glove guy like Taylor over a bat? You have to pick bat or glove. Power or hit. You can’t have both. Both cost 300 400 million dollars or your best prospects. Jack would be a good fielder in rf. Want to release Cruz and #JackIsBack Want Bae Triolo out there. If you want both the Pirates aren’t the team for you. Yankees have both in Judge. Always room for 1 more on that bandwagon.
Good news Senor Frogs. They found someone! Bryan Cruz has 1 less hr than Bryan Reynolds. With any luck and Haines mentoring him maybe he can tie him up? Paul just said how awful he is so you know what that means? Time for a big game!
I won’t be holding my breath, Dream
better news, 37 year old DH has 3 less homers than Reynolds and only 2 less than De la Cruz
You know, the guy that you didn’t want signed for this year
You forgot to take your meds or having one of your bad days. I never said I didn’t want Cutch back. Actually the opposite. Even if I thought he was toast as a baseball player and bring back his corpse just for pr and marketing. Then I am bringing him back for an additional year. He has to announce it’s his last year and it will be the Pirate legend Cutch farewell tour. Dozen bobblehead nights to celebrate every milestone. A cutch theme Hawaiian shirt. A cutch theme drone show. Nutting has all these losers working for him. He needs to get online and discover me. He wouldn’t be willing to pay for my services but I am literally his dream gm. Heck I give him ideas all the time for free. I think Cutch can hit better than Taylor Triolo Suwinski until 45 years old maybe 50. I don’t have Cutch going anywhere.
I just found Paul a new team!
Serious ? Paul. Are you happy being a Pirates fan? You don’t sound happen. But I got good news. I found the perfect team for you. Robles just got an extension today from the Mariners. But that’s not my team for you. My team for you is the Washington Nationals. The team that released him.
Robles 2023 stats 299 .385 .364 .750
Robles 2024 Mariners stats.303 .372 .450 .821
Robles 2024 Nationals stats and they released him at guess how many plate appearances? 33! The same number you cited in your attack on Cruz.
120 .281 .120 .401
Mike Rizzo is your dream gm. I don’t give a it what he did last year. He was awful for 33 plate appearances. Release him.
They spend more $. Have better farm. Better young core. And they won’t put up with a bad stretch of 33 plate appearances. Sounds like a perfect match.
I will miss you but 33 that is a sign from the universe.
Shows what you know…. Not much. I been a Nationals fan since 2024…
you suffer from memory loss, Dream, but it’s natural as people age, dementia begins to develop
Just like you denying to SenorFigs that I didn’t know anything about baseball in another thread
But I don’t hold grudges or grievances, everyone is entitled to their opinions
I didn’t deny it. And stand by it. If you don’t think teams would want Taylor that’s fine. I been around awhile though. I seen KK playing cf for the dodgers this weekend. I remember the sox trading for Jared Dyson. I don’t remember his batting average but looked it up it was .157 I remember texas trading for Hedges. I remember Cleveland paying him 4 million this season. I get it. You guys don’t value defense. I’m not a huge fan either. I wanted to put Rooker in rf or winker and Pillar in center. But mlb teams obviously value defense. Jared Dyson. Someone, a contender traded for that guy. Mike Taylor is Mike Trout compared to him. Look up KK stats. Dodgers would much rather have Taylor.
actually you did deny saying that and to SenorFigs but I will happily play your childish games
I do value good defense but this team lacks serious offense and continuing to pencil Taylor’s name in the starting lineup game after game is a suggestion that management doesn’t really want to win
If I denied it I am sure you can copy and paste it for everyone to see it. Seriously quote me. No reason for me to deny it. I don’t regret saying it. Will say it again right now. Anyone who doesn’t think contenders value good defensive center fielders even if they are below average bats doesn’t know baseball. Dodgers have one on their team as we speak. Just seen him make a great catch vs the Pirates this weekend.
In fact he is worse than Taylor. How do I know this? Well I didn’t see anyone say Pirates should claim KK to replace Taylor. So the Dodgers who’s goal is to win world series every single year vs Rebuild over settle for 500 have a worse outfielder on their team than the Pirates. No denying you don’t know baseball.
the problem with your theory is that with Taylor in the lineup, they aren’t contenders, nor are they when Bae plays center field
No denying that you aren’t the know it all like you think
Well the Dodgers are contenders. Only you and Cherington think the Pirates are.
I may not be a know it all but I know I never denied what I said. That’s why you never copy pasted it.
And it’s not a theory. Certainly not my theory if it was a theory. I am not a glove over bat person. It’s a fact though. I watched the Dodgers series. They had Michael A Taylor playing cf. Actually a bit worse than Taylor. Didn’t look the same. Different name. But same player type.
The Bucs aren’t the Dodgers, comparing the two teams is akin to saying because oranges and grapefruit are citrus fruits they taste the same
What the Dodgers have with a Michael A Taylor clone of all defense and no offense they make up for in the other 8 starters offense
Jeez, sometimes you’re so easy to prove wrong, Dream
One of the differences between us and there are a few, Dream, I have the humility to admit when I am wrong
After the deadline acquisitions, I did believe that they could make the playoffs but I also forgot about how many obtained players under the current regime have regressed after their arrival here
I see that my opinion of your obvious arrogance has struck a chord with you
I almost missed this. Senor Frogs. Yes. You get it. Maybe I misjudged your obsession with lady boys and you’ve been to Cancun, where being kidnapped from a club is a fun risk for young people
Resorts and nice clubs are the safest place. Cartels own them. They need me to come back with my American $. Been to Cancun. Cabo. I was in Cozumel last winter. Walked around down town. Military on every corner with machine guns. Safe as it gets. I wouldn’t leave the resort towns. And would never drive the border. Will take cartel anytime over Mexican border patrol and local law enforcement. They don’t call them lady boys but they got a decent amount of the same thing in Mexico. If you go into town basically every shop offers you them and cuban cigars and hard drugs. I tell them that’s all you got? Im looking for something new and different. The looks on their faces.
Yeah, but even resorts aren’t safe anymore
Two weeks ago in Riviera Maya, a young tourist was shot and killed—ON THE BEACH—when cartel members showed up on Jet Skis—on Jet Skis!—-to go after someone over a drug deal
Tulum has had problems. Playa del Carmen outside of the resort zone is a huge problem
Love the area. It’s still safe. And the military/police with the assault rifles are all over, for whatever it’s worth
It’s just a f….d up world we live in
Yes, I agree, SenorFigs. The world is not a safe place no matter where the location
If it’s not unprovoked wars or provoked ones, it’s authoritarian regimes killing or jailing innocent civilians, and this happens in war zones too, natural disasters, gun violence, and other forms of aggression against innocent people.
I should add, again, that if you go to Mexico, there are two suggestions
One, the “Cuban” cigars are basically Mexican or Dominican. The knock off industry there has copying labels down to an art form. Especially Cohiba
Second, travel with someone who knows Spanish. Especially when you shop. Watching natives comment among themselves only to see their shock when your wife speaks flawless Spanish is hysterical. Or even better, a shop owner trying to stick it to Americans who are used to paying the marked price
Great source of entertainment for me. Muy, muy bueno
In 1978 when I was stationed in south western Germany, my buddies and I would drive the 36 km to the France border to visit quaint villages that were also within a short drive, and of one of us spoke fluent French. It was the difference between being taken advantage of and being treated like more than just American GI tourists so I can relate, SenorFigs
Just don’t take O’Neil Cruz to translate. He will make a error and insult them and get you killed.
Just another off season acquisition that was a total bust. BC has wasted millions on guys who fail in Pittsburgh.
Yes he’s stocked the farm with some arms but that should be a given considering where they pick EVERY year.
It’s time for BC to go.
Pitching alone doesn’t win games, you must have an offense that can out score your opponent too and this team doesn’t have that
Muted to keep your bucko friend company
I’m old school when it comes to baseball fundamentals. I know it’s nerdy ANALytics to bat your best 2 hitters 1 and 2. ITS STUPID, Especially for the pirates. You have cutch and Reynolds at the top of the order. That’s 32 homeruns and close to 100 ribbies. AND NO ONE TO DRIVE THEM IN. They should be 3 and 4. With Cruz 5 and Bart 6.
And the MORON should be relegated to towel Moron. I only hate 2 people in t h e world THE MORON AND THE ORANGE HYENA
MUTED for the over use of all caps.
mute to your heart’s content, Mickey, Bucco is one of my favorite posters on here
Yeah, me too. And he’s hilarious at parties
Mickey-If you mute everyone you yourself will become moot.
You want your best hitters to hit more times. It really doesn’t matter though. Real teams have multiple all stars mvps future hall of famers. Freeman Betts Smith Ohtani. Does it really matter? Same with Pirates. Everyone is average or slightly above average. Cutch is more above average than the rest but not enough to really matter. As long as you put Grandpal Bae Triolo Taylor bottom you can just pick 1 through 6 out of a hat. But since Reynolds Cutch can take a walk might as well have them at top.
Then the Bucs should rotate Cutch, Reynolds and Cruz through the lineup since they produce the majority of the offense
And you MOCKEYTHEMUTED IS HEREBY MUTED YOU ATROCIOUS TROLL…AND THE MAN 3 IS A TRUE PIRATE FAN LIKE MYSELF AND FIGS…SO GO TROLL ON YIUR FAVORITE SITE ….THE ORANGE HYENAS FORUM
you tell ‘em Bucco!!!
Let’s GO Bucs?
Hey mickey why is one as miserable as you are?
1. Drinks water from an unflushed bowl.
2. Been banging his head off walls since a
toddler.
3. Can’t find a real woman,spends all his
money on inflatible ones
And the list is endless
Oh and one more…like a furry…he does his business in a cat liter box
Dream- I really wonder whether anyone checks the stats to determine whether this is smart.
In the old days of us geezers you would have a singles hitter/walker at one,and a decent hitter who could move him over at two.Your best hitter would be three and the home run hitter at four.
Do you think that the Yankees analyzed whether Judge a couple of years ago would have driven in a lot more runs in if he did not hit so many solo homers?
At 153 games you are looking at 17 more at bats at one than two and 34 for three and It may be fine as you now have the DH and not a pitcher at nine but you need 7,8,and 9 hitters to get on base.
I would assume that these teams would have a nerd analyze this but I may be wrong in making that assumption inasmuch as I am a geezer.
Or are they just doing what the computer tells them to do?
Most these teams do what the math tells them to. They aren’t ran by baseball people. Mike Rizzo is a old school scouting guy though. We added Olivares he added Winker. Nats are perfect team for you guys. They get real players. Rendon Turner Scherzer Strasburg Harper Soto. I believe all those were on the same team at one point. Now they got Wood Crews Abrams. He has a huge analytics department but he isn’t some ivy league dip it that doesn’t know anything about baseball. If you guys are sorry about losing me if you go to the Nats don’t. I’ll come with ya. Lol. Nats do it well. Lil too much $ though. I just prefer the extreme challenge the Pirates and Rays provide.
I liked what the Nats put together a few years back. Nice mix of young and old. Then it was fire sale time. They realized they couldn’t afford Soto. They must have been visionary where Rendon was concerned. They told Scherzer, “Thanks for the memories”
Yeah. I get what you’re saying
I like the O’s too, if rooting for a contender is the idea. I’ll be interested to see what they do when these young guys are ready for new contracts. Like Santander
But you miss the point with me. I really am content with a .500 team. With Nutting, that’s all you’ll ever get here. Fine
As a baseball guy, I just draw the line with nonchalance and lack of hustle. I don’t like aloof players who have handfuls of seeds as a ball is live in the OF. Or jogging to 1st. Or lobbing throws back to the pitcher with runners on base
That kind of stuff is contagious and defines the Pirates. There is no Stargell here or vet presence to enforce professionalism and pride. There’s Cutch, dancing in the dugout. Good guy but not the veteran leader
There’s Reynolds. Does the guy even talk?
There’s no one else
That’s my problem with the Pirates. Their GM is a zero, their player dev and scouting departments are lackluster, but their on field management group allow young players to dog it. And that’s unforgivable.
Or fat lazy slobs who rather watch than run.
500 isn’t acceptable to me. 5 years I could have any team over 500.
I’d fire Cherington Shelton Haines right now. Only firing Shelton Cherington because they haven’t fired Haines. Williams and Nutting need fired for not firing Cherington.
I prefer Pirates to win but I have better things to do than watch them. Only watch when I have nothing better to have as background noise.
Cherington drafted well. Mostly traded well. Mostly dumpster dived free agents well. None of that matters if you can’t develop. And development might be taking baby steps forward. If he fired Haines last year I would give Cherington another year. Can’t have 1st round picks building their own facilities and boasting how your hitting coach didn’t help at all. Here’s your sign dumb as. Time to fire your coach.
I know you are happy with 500. Know none of you are switching teams. Fans should though. Most teams have another team or 3 or 4 or 7 within a 5 6 hour drive. Everyone plays everyone know. Watch any game you want with streaming.
I am a Pirates fan for 2 reason. I am a Pirate. But more importantly they operate how I would operate if I owned a team. Rays are my AL team. I think I am the only Pirate fan who loves how they operate. I don’t want 30 40 million a year players. I want Perez Anderson Velasquez. I didn’t want Bellinger Hoskins. I wanted Santana. Was pleased with Rowdy. I regret that. I knew he was a fat slob. Didn’t know he was extremely lazy. Voglebach was fat and slow but he played hard. If I wanted my team to throw $ at players I would find another team. Lots to choose from. Pirates fans are the joke of baseball. When other fans make fun of you for saying Nutting needs to spend $ or pirates will be trading him soon they are right. You aren’t getting more than 120m payroll. Doubt it’s much more over 100. And any player who doesn’t sign a bargain contract will be gone. Every single year fans throw out these free agent names that aren’t happening. Richer owners who actually like baseball don’t spend their own $. Can’t even look forward to Nutting spending on his death bed. Don’t think he gives a it about getting a world series before he dies.
Agree with everything in these last two posts except the idea that I’m happy with a .500 team
No. I just think with my head and not my heart. That’s the bar I’ve set. I don’t see them ever doing much beyond that
And with a manager who is as complacent as this one, there’s no sense players will strive to overachieve
There are managers who could get more out of this group. To inspire and also hold feet to the fire. This one won’t. The only thing I haven’t figured out is if that’s by design—preordained from the front office—or just his style.
This group is happy with what it is. No sense of anger when they lose
Pity
Here’s the overarching question that comes from reading these posts:
How much of what Shelton does is directed from Cherington and
How much of what Cherington does is constrained by the owner?
See, it’s hard for me to fault the moves. Cherington has made because I don’t know the territory. His scouting and player development departments are another thing
It’s hard for me to fault Shelton at 100% because again, I don’t know the parameters. Where lineups are concerned and failure to respond to what I call attitude problems, it’s almost as if he’s been directed because really, he does things that are beyond explanation and on the other hand, allows behaviors you wouldn’t see in high school ball
I blame Nutting 100 percent for everything. It’s not a large enough company to be clueless. Large enough to have interns to keep him up to speed on things. Your players are telling you the hitting coach sucks. That’s a problem. A huge problem. Look at your lineup Mr Nutting. Whys it all dumpster dives and Huntingtons players? How can you not blame Nutting 100 percent. Clear as daylight to see there is a problem here.
You once called Nutting a Hall of Famer where finances are concerned. Agreed
TheMan3 quoted what he bought the team for and what it’s worth now
And add to that his holdings and it’s a multi billion dollar company.
I get that no one buys a team to lose money or out of some feeling of civic responsibility.
What irks most longtime fans is the idea that this owner is so blatantly concerned with profit margins over wins and losses
Let’s face it. The deadline deals were predictable. We know they’ll do nothing this off season. The only curve ball we’ve seen was signing Chapman which with owner, defies logic
You said it best. All they can do is keep trying with what they’ve got. Agreed. With Mr Potter in charge, that’s all
And for me, that means being content with a .500 team
It not Nutting. It’s all baseball owners other than maybe Steve Cohen but he could write off the $ he spent and won’t be able to do so going forward so I imagine his spending goes down. He will dip below the tax before year 3 just like Yankees Dodgers is my guess. It’s NY so still 250 to 300 but would be surprised for him to go above 300 until the tax goes towards that down the road. The only difference with Nutting is if another owner owned the Pirates they might spend 10 million more a year and they might not take a profit when they are about to die.
$10m? Perhaps. I’m thinking if a guy like Clippers owner Steve Ballmer was owner, it’d be substantially more. And unfortunately, you don’t find many owners who look at it as fans do. To load your roster. To compete year in and year out. To not flinch when spending on contracts. That’s Ballmer
It’s all about profit margins and profit margins are all about percentages. Why only make a 20% profit when I can throw the peons a few tidbits that make it appear that we’re trying to win and make 30%?
That’s the Nutting mantra. Greed is good.
MLB’s revenue streams alone ensure a guy like Nutting will always profit. That’s a given. But the idea is to make more. And more.
Other sports have caps. You can only spend so much. Baseball almost has that with the tax. You can go over but not for long. NBA probably has something similar I dunno I haven’t watch nba since I was 8 years old or something.
Most important thing is a floor. Nutting would love a cap and floor. Can’t have a floor because players don’t want it but more importantly NY LA don’t want it. They would have to give Nutting more of their $. And make teams like Pirates more competitive. They want to keep all their $ and have a NY LA world series every year.
They had veteran leadership last year who you are describing in Carlos Sanders but he was too costly to bring back
Fine post Senor.
Major changes need to be made.
Bring back Jim Leyland.
My point though is maybe the math is wrong.
Any model needs to be calibrated and verified and I am not so sure that this is being done.
And the best computer by far is the human brain.
Double clutch cruz missile. How many mph was that throw? Pirates broadcast didn’t say.
his double clutch throw allowed the batter to reach base safely, regardless of the speed of his throw
I don’t want to see any complaining about Cruz #2 Go root for Yankees. Their outfielders hit and play defense. Their owner paid Judge 400m and traded the pitcher who had double-digit strike outs vs your team tonight for Soto. Root for the Yankees. Pirates have to just settle for the scraps other teams don’t want. Too mainstream root for Rays O’s someone else. Pirates can’t buy good players and can’t develop good players. Frogs is happy sipping on his modelo laughing at the other cruz trying to play ss. I’m happy too. Actually watched this game. Laughed my as off at all the stike outs and errors. Too bad Nutting doesn’t watch or he might ask what’s going on here?
I can accept double digit strikeouts if they also scored more runs than their opponents but with this lineup, it’s not possible
They struck out 15 times in last night’s game, scattered 9 hits with only one for an XBH and got shutout
Shelton and Cherington using analytics doesn’t work with this group because they don’t have the talent and offensive ability and you would think that after 4+ years of trying, they would find another way of producing offense
“Shelton and Cherington using analytics” They are? Where?
they have openly admitted as much. Of course you would know that if you weren’t trying so hard to be right about everything
You guys don’t want to be Washington Nationals fans but what about the Washington Generals? They play just like the Pirates!
If I’m gm Cruz never plays SS ever again. Your gm though doesn’t want to hurt his lil feelings and still thinks his team will be playing October baseball lol. Will say something nice about the clowns on the fan. They are very professional and respectful. How they didn’t burst into laughter when Cherington said October baseball is impressive.
They have one player here, and that’s Reynolds. He’s not the kind of guy you build a team around, however
I’m guessing they learned the lesson with Polanco and as such haven’t offered to extend Cruz
And I’d bet they really regret signing Hayes to a long contract. Fringe player, a cut above Alika Williams, nothing more. They may even regret extending Keller at this point
Again, a different manager would get a great deal more out of these kids. It’s kind of disturbing the front office doesn’t see it….unless they’re calling the shots with kid gloves
Yeah the rebuild is over. The ‘69 Chevelle SS analogy applies. Will be interesting to see where they go from here
We are on same chapter. Not same page but close enough.
I am going to watch more games. That was a entertaining game. Only thing missing was someone kicking the ball or player collision. They should make it a rule that every team has to have a 6 foot 7 dh at ss.
We need an “If I was GM of the Pirates” theme here. Buccoprojectory started it with oddly enough, a lot of things I would do
But I mean, in the best of all possible worlds, what would you do with this team? Forget the losing streak but see the bigger picture
If I was Bob Nutting, the first thing I would is hold a Skype call with Travis Williams and Ben Cherington to discuss what direction they believe this team is heading.
I would wait for the usual excuses and explanations, then inform both that no one’s job is safe, providing a fair warning that if they can’t turn this team around within the next several games, he would be looking for their replacements
Sure I (me) can blame Shelton and Haines but the buck stops with upper management
Good idea, of course, but if it’s a perfect world scenario and I have free rein and it’s the off season before ‘25, I’m making some things known:
– I’m looking to bring in a bat at 1st and in RF
I’m willing to spend. Not Soto money, but I’m not bringing Olivares-types, either
-I’m telling Cruz (now) that he has the rest of the season to demonstrate he can play SS. If not, he’s switching positions and point 1 entails bringing in a SS instead
– I’m making it known Hayes is available for trade.
-Tellez, Grandal, Taylor are DFA’d.
-I don’t bring back Chapman
-Bradenton represents the last chance for Suwinski, Bae, Delay, Triolo. Show some semblance of ability or goodbye
-I’m hiring a new manager who can communicate but will hold players accountable. I’m restocking my coaches at every level. I’m rebuilding my scouting and player development departments.
Out of this present 40 man roster, I’m probably not keeping more than 25. Again, it’s a perfect world and I won’t speculate how I fill the roster. But the deadwood goes, pronto
I took an obvious different route, but like yours better, SenorFigs.
Nutting, from all historical facts is calculating, and doesn’t make rash decisions. He uses a conservative perspective
There’s not a single doubt, this team needs a complete overhaul, which is basically yet another rebuild. Except from top to bottom and not just the players
But they do excel at something as a team, SenorFigs
They know how to strikeout with consistency
15 times worth of consistency last night
my first dream car was a 69 Malibu SS 396 with a 4 speed hurst shifter transmission, blue with wide white stripes down the center of the chassis
Instead, I bought it 67 Mustang 302 4 speed manual transmission and did the rest myself
Since then I have owned a 99, 13 and 17 Mustangs, all GT convertibles
3 years ago, I decided to do a national search for an original owned 12-14 Mustang GT convertible and found one in Wisconsin
I bought it with only 10,400 original miles on the odometer and in 3 years, I have only driven it another 1147 miles. A 2012 GT convertible
Wow. A “Boss Hoss” Mustang? About the only era I liked that car
I had a number of Z28’s—the mid 80’s versions being the most generic, in hindsight—and eventually went the route of Corvettes. Problem with sports cars as you get older is that at every light, someone wants to race you. This was especially true after The Fast and Furious movies hit. Now, every kid with a Subaru is pumping his gas pedal at you
I’ll never get my dream car of the Ferrari 296, it appears. Never win more than a couple bucks at the lottery machine
About the 69 Chevelle SS… a good friend finally got one in the 80’s. Rebuilt/restored it. Immaculate. And one night, wrapped it around a telephone pole in Brookline
Dreams die hard
I have always been a big fan of muscle cars from the late 1960’s era. I chose the Mustang because it was a car I could always afford.
A 63-67 Corvette with a 327 and 4 speed manual transmission was out of my price range
when I was younger
On the rare days I take my current Mustang out for a ride ( with the top down of course), I only choose early Sunday mornings when traffic is sparse because people in Pittsburgh are careless drivers
Agreed. The other thing is that our roads are generally horrible, even when it’s not early spring pothole time
I see an occasional super car on the road and wonder how they do it.
Yeah, I agree with your thoughts about muscle cars and being young. Wish I’d have saved instead just immediately wanting wheels when I turned 16 and spending on a broken down Buick and then Honda Civic.
When we’re young, we’re impatient to be driving and having our own cars. In hindsight and I’m almost 69, I wish I would’ve waited until I saved more money but my youth was interrupted by a 6 year hitch in the military and when I retuned home, I had more opportunities to find a muscle car
By the way, we will probably lose again today or at least it doesn’t look good
Perez strikes out the side in the first inning, Connor Joe miffed a ground ball for an error and the Padres hit a 3 run homer
They ( Bucs) suck and Shelton needs to take the fall for this collapse
I enjoy watching the Barrett car auctions on the History or FYI channels and dream of a life of owning the various muscle cars on the block
Yes! Me too. And the amount of money spent on cars from when we were young? Incredible
I remember when the original Shelby GT was auctioned and sold for over $2 million dollars. Not sure which auction it was though
The Bucs are going to get their butts kicked
Keller going through another one of his down streaks. I’m guessing they’ll make him go 5 or 6 even if he gives up 7 runs.
Like I said somewhere else, I’m wondering if they regret extending him.
it’s 8-0 now and only in the third inning. This is the Keller that pitched post AS last year but that said, Martin Perez has already struck out 6 Pirate batters which doesn’t say much for management especially Haines
You can ask the same question about extending Hayes.
Otherwise I think it’s time to demote players who still have options ( Joe) and bring up Yorke and dfa Taylor and bring up Billy Cooke
This team needs a spark and a message to current players that being complacent won’t be tolerated anymore
They are 5 for 47 with runners in scoring position during this road trip
That is worse then pathetic and yet Haines still has his job
Would you say Perez looks A+
Nutting needs to put his $ where his mouth is. Extend Keller Cruz Bednar.
We got 1
Actually yes I would, Dream and must wonder how he suddenly had a resurgence pitching for the Padres. Is it that their pitching coach is better than Oscar?
by the way, add another double digit strikeout performance by the Pirates offense
They are absolutely terrible
Keller was already extended, last year
Hey at this rate, what the hell, let’s extend him again. We want him around for the next two rebuilds
What resurgence? Same exact guy. Last start with Pirates 6 innings 0 runs. It’s not a resurgence. It’s called blowing off the rust after a injury.
Yeah, too bad about the injury. He’d be a Cy Young candidate. If only he could face the Pirates every other start
Triolo does what the Bucs are really good at, strikes out looking with the bases loaded
I guess it’s asking too much for hitters to protect the plate
They just suck
Martin Perez, with an era of over 4.5 as a Pirate is pitching a shutout over 5 innings against his former team
For those who claim that Oscar isn’t a problem with the current pitching staff, how do you explain Perez’ sudden resurgence on the mound?
Prior to this start he had an era with the Padres of just over 2
I won’t apologize, the entire managerial staff on this team should be fired for allowing this 10 game losing streak to happen
Someone must be held accountable
Same pitcher he’s always been. Pitched March April and May with pirates and only gave up more than 4 runs one time. 6 innings 0 runs. 6.2 2 runs. 8 innings 1 run.
Joe Triolo Grandpal Taylor. That’s a lineup with 4 pitchers trying to hit in it. He would do well 9 out of 10 times vs this garbage. Probably 9.7 out of 10 times.
Well let’s face it, he’s pitching against the Pirates
I just wonder where all the combative posters like Buctober are, carping about what a wonderful season it’s been and how they’re so close! So close!
How about those folks telling us Keller is among the elite pitchers in MLB. Awfully quiet these days
Where’s bright eyes with some analytics to tell us that what we are seeing isn’t real?
Let me say it again….cough….they are who we thought they were. How many years do old fans here—-you know, the guys who don’t know baseball—have to go on telling it like it is until the true believers among the fan base wake up and say gee, you know, they’re right
It’s the joke that keeps on giving
Keller really settled down after he gave up those 8 runs.
Add another 14 strikeouts to their season total
TheMan3, this losing streak reminds me of something from The Natural. They bring in the carny preacher to talk to the team. Nothing changes. They keep losing. He finally says, “Losing….is like syphillis…..”
Too bad this team doesn’t have a Roy Hobbs
They already have a Paul Skenes, what have they done to help him win?
If Roy Hobbs played for Shelton and company they’d find a way to ruin his career
They had Hobbs. Combination of Boggs and Vlad. He plummeted off of top 100 lists but hopefully he can be a everyday 2b still.
We are gaining in the standings. Getting to 4th would be huge.
tankathon.com/mlb
Not since the Penguins quit after the trade of Jake Guentzel have we seen a shutdown like this.
Hey, but they’re still in the hunt, right?
7th best team. I think Shelton can lead them to 4.
Why is Ryan pitching? Why no pinch hitters? Isn’t Shelton trying to win!
Shelton is like any other manager from MLB to little league travel ball. When the losing cascades, it’s time to throw anything at the wall, trying….praying…for a spark
But good old Sheltie has wanted to be cool uncle to this gang. No fire. No passion. No problem
I don’t care what level you coach, when you allow players to be complacent, to be lazy, to not become invested in their play, THIS is what you get
Shelton will use his same quote after this game that they didn’t execute, as if we didn’t already know that
You really enjoy that question of pinch hitting but if he ( Shelton) wasn’t really interested in winning why take out Keller?
The real question is, why won’t they dfa Taylor and bring up Billy Cook and demote Joe in favor of Yorke?
The current team as is, stinks and BC needs to make changes to show these guys that losing and being complacent isn’t acceptable
And to beat a dead horse, I’m ok with a .500 team. This group isn’t even at that caliber. My prediction of 78 wins may have been too high
And relax, TheMan3. I’m sure Cherington will be beating the bushes for Taylor-like players that we’ll adore next season
I just need them to get more than 72 and a half.
Because teams don’t destroy arms anymore?
Before this month is over I am putting Rowdy Grandpal Taylor on waivers. Let them potentially catch on with a contender and if they don’t care about that then it’s punishment for the collapse. It saves Bob a few bucks and opens up playing time. Borucki Chapman Beeks too. Unless of course they start winning and get back in the mix. Doesn’t look like it but baseball is crazy. I wonder if Cherington still sees October baseball? Lol
I don’t disagree with the players you are talking about but add Connor Joe to the mix
And Triolo would go back to Indy, taking Bae along for the ride
Joe could go but not sure anyone would claim him.
I think Joe still has options
Sure, Cherington still sees October baseball, just won’t be watching the Pirates play
Few options. Minor league deal. Korean. Mexico.
I hear the Hiroshima Carp are interested in Rowdy. Imagine the chants of “Rowdy! Rowdy!” coming from those noodles-filled mouths
Disclaimer. That’s no a racist trope. Watch the best baseball movie ever, Mr Baseball, for context. And for tips on how to correct swings without analytics
I realize that some here don’t think highly of commentators on 93.7 the Fan, but they are calling on Nutting to clean house this offseason starting with Cherington and including the entire managerial staff
They make a valid argument, one that SenorFigs has himself raised, about the high draft picks by BC and where they are within the organization.
Position players not pitchers and comparing the player development failures to teams with similar high draft picks and where those players are in those organizations
Fine by me. I haven’t forgotten December 7
If only Nutting would fire himself. It’s be a great start
Nutting should clean house but those people don’t know anything about sports so how could they compare other players?
I imagine Jackson Holiday was a name. Well he went #1 so how could Pirates draft him? Davis went #1 though. Well they would have taken Holliday over him. Well Adley was a #1 pick again they would have took him as well.
DK said look at Padres cf. Pirates took Davis instead. Well 20 some other teams took someone else as well.
Pearl Harbor Day?
You really need to find Mr Baseball, my friend
Japan! I can’t go to Japan!
Their point was that other teams’ recent top draft picks who have been promoted to the majors are playing at high levels while the Pirates high draft picks struggle at the major league level. Can anyone say Henry Davis?
Quint Priester was the Bucs’ .#1 pick in 2019, where is he? Traded for a #1 draft pick by the Red Sox and playing st Indy. Neither were #1 overall but were still high draft picks
Why is Billy Cook still playing for Indy instead of Pittsburgh?
Hr plays CF, RF and first base,
My point, they have quality players at Indy and rather than giving them a chance since the season is in dire straits, BC prefers to keep the likes of Joe, Taylor and Bae
Dream says they’ve drafted well and that player development is the problem
I agree with TheMan3 here. This is a franchise that hasn’t produced an impact player in years. It certainly isn’t Hayes, who again is a fringe, glove-only player in the mold of Alika Williams
You can’t lay all of this on player development. Whether it’s scouting for the draft or prospects/players on other teams, they’ve failed miserably
Dream also said the rebuild was over and look how that turned out.
If the draft was that good, players wouldn’t need much developing, especially considering the draft order that Cherington has always had
I could understand if Davis was drafted in the 5th round and he had problems developing but there’s no excuse for a number one pick to be so dysfunctional at the major league level as he has
How much developing did Bobby Witt Jr need before being promoted to KC parent club
I rest my case
Rest your case huh. How about you tell me about these guy’s first. Gavin Cross, Frank Mozzicato, Asa Lacy, Daniel Lynch, Jackson Kowar, Nick Pratto, Nolan Watson, Ashe Russell, Chase Vallot, Foster Griffin, Brandon Finnegan, Hunter Dozier, Sean Manaea, Kyle Zimmer, Bubba Starling, Christian Colon. Those are the Royals 1st round picks since 2010 not named Witt or Singer. It’s so bad most fans would only recognize a few names.
Brady Singer has a 4 year 4.23 career era so he’s been alright and probably will be good as it’s under 4 this season.
Witt is the only 1st round pick of the Royals who has made a all star game in 15 years worth of drafting. Have to go back to 2009. Nutting was on the job for 2 years. Barrack was in his 2nd year on the job. A young 22 year old Cutch made his mlb debut. Let’s hold hands and chant and pray that the Pirates can do better than the Royals.
Paul rest his case though!
Maybe Cherington can use Pauls thinking 15 years from now. Look Mr Nutting I drafted Skenes in 2023!!!! Look how fast he made it. I am great at scouting!!!!!
You guys ever talk to any scouts? I have. They liked the players drafted. Ever look at their stats? They look fantastic. Ever read baseball america, fangraphs, pipeline? They liked them. Every Cherington 1st round pick was a top 10 draft talent by everyone I ever seen or talked to. Most top 5. Don’t think Griffin made many top 5 and he might be the best player drafted other than Skenes. You guys better become gms because you are the only ones who think differently on these players. You can world series every year with your scouting.
Your points are well taken, Dream. I get all that. There are no guarantees in any draft and in any sport. Rarely is there a can’t miss type of player
You’ve forgotten more about prospective draft picks than I’ll ever know. Ask me about basketball prospects and it’s a different thing, but no, I don’t read the publications you do and the scouts I knew are long out of the game
Points taken
TheMan3’s frustration is well stated, however. In general, you’d think number 1 overall selections would pan out let alone the top 5. Amazingly, it appears few if any of the prospects in Davis’s draft year have made an impact
In every sport, the game has changed. Players are stronger, faster, train all year and have access to much better facilities, coaches and methodologies. I was once a pretty good hooper. I couldn’t even have a spot on a college team’s pine today
We get all that
You’d like to think scouting and player development have evolved with athletics. Better techniques. Analytics that match the prospect with the realities of what it takes in today’s game.
To that end, while you are skilled at rambling off the names of kids who were drafted high and never made it, many of us look at teams like the Rays of the past and the O’s, Guardians, Brewers and D-Backs of the present and wonder why their pipelines keep churning out impact players.
That’s the point. Yeah, player development is a big part of it. So is scouting the right kids to begin with
Let me add—-please read Joe Starkey’s column in today’s PG
A couple highlights:
The Pirates have the 27th ranked farm system in MLB according to Baseball America
The Pirates don’t have a prospect in MLB’s top 40 according to MLB.com
The Cubs have 3 in the top 36
The Reds have 4 in the top 40
The Cardinals have 3
The Brewers have 4
And the column gets better from there
As usual and what I would expect, you missed the point, Dream
BFD, the Royals have not been successful at their #1 draft picks. Guess what? Neither have the Pirates. Should I also list them for you?
My point was, since you have to be a know it all, Bobby Whitt Jr, a position player and not a pitcher, has already been in the majors for 3 full seasons
Our last #1 position player drafted can’t even hit major league pitching
You knew exactly what I was talking about but had to be your usual dickself to try and prove me wrong
If you have all of this baseball knowledge and experience why aren’t you employed by a professional baseball organization, Dream?
My guess, you’re a wannabe who’s been turned down because of your ego
Yesh because taking Priester at #19 in the first round of the 2019 amateur draft made the Bucs WS champions
And had the Bucs been a better team the year before Skenes was drafted, he’d be pitching for another team
But that’s one of the recurring problems with this franchise, they get high draft picks and other than pitchers, they can’t do squat with the position players they draft in the first round
I guess you have a snarky response to that observation too, Dream?
Tim Benz has an excellent article in the Trib with a litany of questions about the current players who have regressed and what is to be expected from them next year
Including how the team would face their annual first base problem next year
You can look at the names. #1 overall doesn’t guarantee you anything. Casual fans would look at many of those names and never heard of them unless their team drafted them.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_Majo…
What I always say? You have to do your work. Joe won’t and can’t so he’s just going to go buy the sources available. I might check it out. Problem is I am at the highest level of baseball iq. Mlb had Jared Jones as 62 best to start season. Could you find 62 prospects you would rather have that Jones? I couldn’t have. They had Solometo ranked ahead of Bubba. I never had Solometo sniffing the top 100. Bubba is in my top 40. Baseball America is low. Not much though. I would put them 19th 20th. And it’s not as bad as it seems because there is a lot of parity right now. Most years the Pirates talent would rank them middle of the pack 13 to 17. And even the most negative fans know what gets hurt the most and what’s the most important thing to have in your system and the Pirates do have that. It should be better though. TJ should be top 40. Davis should have looked better. Development sucks.
It is irrelevant though. Blind squirrel found a nut. Would be like bragging about Pirates pitching development because of Skenes. Look he made it to show in 9 months! Why can’t our team develop as good as the Pirates! I got your point. If Pirates picked 2nd in 2019 they would have Witt up just as fast and he probably would be good. Look how fast the brought Davis to mlb. They didn’t even wait on him being able to hit or even catch!
1 it doesn’t pay enough. 2 I won’t start at the bottom. 3. I am beyond most if not all front offices. They wouldn’t think much of me because I don’t think like they do.
Ok my friend, you have all the answers
It’s hard to peg exactly where you stand with this franchise, and difficult to decipher sarcasm from literal meaning sometimes
I’m going to surmise that you’re no fan of Shelton or Haines, no supporter of Cherington per se, but the biggest fault you see is in player development and not scouting
I simply believe that while everything you’ve said may be true, this is a franchise that couldn’t afford to miss repeatedly where drafting or bringing prospects over from other teams via trades is concerned
Perhaps more than any other franchise, it was incumbent to get it right or be consistent, at the very least. And nothing can be further from the truth
I tell you what I know. If you think I know it all and want to call me a know it all I appreciate the praise.
Anytime you question if it’s sarcasm or not you can just ask.
Why don’t I work in baseball? Because I don’t want to. It’s a hobby. If I showed a team the link where I said a 3 string catcher who 29 teams had no interest in was good enough to be a backup on any team and start on some of them and with a change of scenery or minor adjustment could be a impact player, you don’t think they would be interested in me? Or when a reliever with a almost 6 era was released and I can show them the link where I said he is a 3 era reliever, they wouldn’t be interested in me? Guy went unclaimed. Cashman either got lucky or was smarter than me and knew for sure no one else would be interested. I would hate to give them that link because I was wrong. He has a 2 something era not 3. They would love to have me. They have me right now. All they have to do is come here and read my comments. Even pretend to be a fan and ask me questions. Like Senor Frogs right now could be Bob Nutting asking me what to do? He’s not. They aren’t that smart. If I was a owner I would have a intern at least reading these comments. I would personally read them. I am selling a product and the people here are my customers. I don’t need a marketing team or surveys or anything. Just come here and other sites with fans and read some comments while I take a dump. Perfect for Nutting. It’s free! And I think incredibly valuable.
End of season unless a miracle happens I am firing Shelton for not firing Haines and firing Cherington for not firing Shelton. Comes down to that. Cherington drafted well. Could be pure luck because the Pirates 1st round picks were automatic. But he didn’t mess it up. He took the right arms in later rounds. Drafting he gets a A. Trades he gets a C. I don’t know what he was available but seems he did well most times. Would be a B but he traded for some guys who needed development that his organization didn’t have. Development is a F. Failure. Pitching would be a C. It’s fine. This organization needs development. Cherington might be able to get there. He’s taking baby steps. If he just fired Haines or Shelton I would give him another year. Free agents B. Forgot about that. He found guys that weren’t in demand but ended up being in demand. New gm can just come in here for free and ask me who to sign. That’s easiest thing to do. I already know the players. I’m not going to watch video on 500 potential draft picks so your next gm mr Nutting better have a amateur scouting background.
Yeah, number one draft picks don’t guard superstardom or success but with this organization;, regardless of where they draft, none of the position players will make an impact on this team
you have an excuse for every single thing about the failures of this franchise. Nutting should hire you as a media consultant so you can make excuses to the public
Skenes is a once in a generation pitcher,using him as an example to defend their pitching development is absurd
He didn’t need to be developed, he just needed to build his arm strength after pitching minimal in college
But keep using him as an excuse if it helps your argument
It’s just the facts. Most people can’t see facts though. You believe what the want. Completely ignore facts.
If the scouting was bad that means the player never had talent. If that was true then other teams wouldn’t make former Pirates better. Much better. Like all star better. Not going to name all the names. As a Pirates fan who reads you should know them. In the industry Pirates development is a joke. It’s known throughout baseball as being awful. I’m not giving any examples. I gave dozens to pushing hundreds throughout the years. Just keep believing what you want. If you actually read my comments with open mind you wouldn’t be saying such ridiculous things like Nutting should hire me as a media consultant. You are brainwashed and nothing I can do about it but I won’t be looking forward to Nuttings job offer anytime soon.
No one is disputing that BC drafted well with pitchers, though we only have a small sample size considering his one draft pick wasn’t exactly finding his way and was traded to the Red Sox and the other is as I said previously, is a once in a generation pitcher ( Skenes ), neither Burrows or Chandler have ever faced major league hitters so grading them as success stories remains a question.
I think everyone else will take it as a joke and not an example.
But I wouldn’t make the son of a former player who had the best amateur coaching and technology that $ could buy before being drafted as my poster child of player development. Most drafts he goes #1. He was a obvious elite prospect. If he was in the 2021 draft the Pirates don’t have Bubba because they are taking Witt at #1.
Like I said. If they did this every year I would be impressed. Their 1st round draft history the last 15 years is worse than the Pirates. And that’s incredibly hard to beat.
why wait until the end of the season to fire Shelton and Haines? So that the franchise can get a higher draft pick next year because they won’t improve over the next 40+ games with their “leadership “.
Everyone, including Cherington have been given 5 years to improve this team and their offense has not improved, and Shelton has lost control of his players.
Nutting and BC must make a decision that instills in the rest of the coaching staff and the players that losing is unacceptable and everyone’s position is not guaranteed anymore
It sends a clear signal that being complacent won’t be tolerated because right now, complacency is not being addressed, it’s being rewarded
As I mentioned before Cherington didn’t draft Priester. In fairness to Huntington Priester was a fine pick. Huge upside. Raw as can be. He was trying to hit a hr and find a ace. Priester was from a northern state. Never had a pitching coach. Learned to pitch by watching YouTube videos. Out of the 1,200 players drafted after Priester 2 of them have been all stars so far. You aren’t going to be the fan that says Pirates drafted this scrub over Mike Trout. Took so and so over this cy young winner drafted 10 or 20 picks later. Ignoring some of the smartest teams also passed on so and so. Priester wasn’t a reach or bad pick.
Burrows was a 11th round pick. To make a top 30 list is a scouting and development success. He made top 100 in all of baseball. You should be celebrating and praising Cherington for drafting Burrows. Unfortunately he didn’t draft him either. Another Huntington pick. Like Cruz Hayes Keller Reynolds. Basically any good talent just assume that it was from Huntington and you will be right 80 percent of the time.
The hatred of Cherington is getting to emergency levels. He is getting blamed for draft picks he didn’t even make. Fire Cherington now before the fans burn pnc down.
If they had a bench coach or 1b or 3b coach or anyone I had confidence in then sure. I don’t though. You can fire them now though. I don’t care. I’d hire you to manage the team the rest of the way as long as you followed my pitcher workload. Do whatever you want with lineup and pinch hitters. Use whatever pitchers you wants. Just stick to my pitch usage limits. But as they lost 10 in a row they could win 10 in a row or 21 of next 23. Not a prediction. Just the players are still playing. But yeah losing for draft lottery odds is a bonus. Why you think I am hiring you! If I can’t make the playoffs I would be happier losing every single game. More losing the better. Better draft odds better. You can manage. Frogs can be your pitching coach. Do whatever you want just don’t destroy my arms. You couldn’t do much worse than Shelton. Might even do better.
I’m just not firing them now because I don’t know a good hitting coach who is unemployed in the middle of summer. If you do fire them. Fire them yesterday. I never hired Haines. Would have fired him almost 2 years ago if I was stupid enough to hire him.
I don’t hate anyone, you included, Dream, and will admit being wrong about who drafted Priester.
But I have also said and repeatedly, my issue with BC’s draft picks are rooted from position players and not pitchers.
Staying on the subject of pitchers though, until Burrows and Chandler face live major league batters, it’s unfair to label them good draft picks.
Otherwise, blah, blah, blah, blah and blah
It’s very unlikely that they will win 10 games in a row at this point of the season but thanks for your belief that there’s a chance,
In case you’re wondering, people offer their opinions and beliefs on this website. The majority don’t have the belief that they are right or entitled and most don’t come across as being arrogant while trying hard to make subtle inferences to those they disagree with
Respect is earned. You get more bees with honey than vinegar
Yeah, agreed.
“Hate” is a strong and inappropriate word here. I’m sure there are fans who take athletic endeavors personally and harbor such feelings
To me, the advent of million dollar salaries and billionaire owners precluded my ever taking sports seriously. I *hate* what big money has done to professional and collegiate sports
But the individuals within? Hardly. They’re nothing to me. Nothing. I root for the teams that have “Pittsburgh” emblazoned on their chests but have no regard or care for the individuals within the uniforms. I could not care less
I’m a fan of the sport, the game. I’m no fan of any player. Or manager. Or GM. Or owner. Hard to have any personal feeling about these characters
They were labeled good draft picks as soon as they were drafted. Whatever happens after that doesn’t matter. Good draft picks fail all the time. No time machine to go back and draft someone else.
That’s nonsense, Dream. Making excuses for this poorly run organization for their failure to develop top quality draft pick position players is beyond pathetic
You got my confused with someone else. I never make excuses for teams.
The MLB players union filed a lawsuit against this organization over the Sheetz logo on the players’ jerseys
Apparently the players are supposed to be getting a portion of the advertising revenue and as expected, Nutting is refusing to pay
It’s my belief that Shelton has lost control of his players
No one hustles, swings are often erratic, and players in the dugout don’t seem to be loose.
Shelton has accepted losing and that attitude is contagious which includes the players
meanwhile, the Tigers are promoting Trey Sweeney, the Yankees former #1 draft pick in 2021
meanwhile ( again)! Tigers have promoted infielder and their #1 2022 draft pick, Jace Jung
When will the Bucs be promoting recent top draft picks to play in the infield or outfield?
Oh that’s right, they won’t because they don’t have anyone they have successfully developed
Where’s the tigers 2023 1st round draft pick at? Ours started the all star game!!!!!
you can’t even begin to compare Paul Skenes to any other top prospect, Dream, he’s a once in a generation talent who happened to fall into the lap of a poorly coached organization who had the top draft pick because they suck so bad year after year
Dream wants to absolve scouts and place blame solely on player development personnel. Sorry, I’m not buying
How does a scout NOT take into account the amount of refinement a prospect might need and then review how it all fits into the organization’s current structure?
That is, if you knew Davis was going to take a helluva lot of refinement and also know your organization’s development people are sorely lacking, how do you take him?
What Dream is proposing is that one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing. Nonsense. If fans know there have been no impact players coming through the minor league system in years, you mean scouts are unaware?
I understand few players are like Skenes or Witt, ready-made for MLB, but you’d think that by now some system-wide audit would have taken place
“How does a scout NOT take into account the amount of refinement a prospect might need and then review how it all fits into the organization’s current structure?”
That’s Cheringtons job. Not the scouts.
Think about what you are saying scouts should do. Mr Cherington this guy could be a 5 tool mvp when all is said and done. The clear best player available in a tier of his own. You shouldn’t draft him though. After 5 years you have failed to put together a coaching staff capable of the player development needed. May I be frank with you sir, your player development sucks! You should draft this back end starter instead since you are better at pitching development and he is a much more finished product.
They give their scouting report. That’s it. If they tell the gm how to do his job they won’t have a job. They will mention everything that needs work. Uo to management to decide if that player is worth taking with their development. Obviously Cherington thinks he can fix any player.
I wasn’t comparing.
I am calling a truce here because we have disagreements that aren’t likely to be resolved given our differences
But I will ask, if Cherington is under this belief that he can fix any player, and hasn’t, how long before Travis Williams shows him the door?
Ii hope tonight’s game is rained out so Skenes doesn’t have to face the heartache again of pitching a great game while watching his teammates’ offensive performance is yet another failure under the leadership of the worst manager in baseball
The lineup is filled with players who are sure to strike out in double digits while scoring very few runs
You have Joey Bart, probably the best offensive catcher on this team not starting, Taylor, who has struggled all year to hit the ball out of the infield or at all playing and my favorite, De la Cruz, who hasn’t hit one extra base hit and only driven in one run in the 11 games he’s been a Pirate
While Cook and Yorke are tearing up the IL, languishing at Indy
Michael A. Taylor has a .316 batting average since August 9.
Grandpal is Skenes personal catcher if you haven’t noticed.
“Joey Bart, probably the best offensive catcher on this team” I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are probably right. I will also add Skenes is probably their best pitcher and Reynolds is probably their best outfielder.
You have to remember Cherington still sees October baseball. Once he gives up I hope to see Davis and #JackIsBack. 2 rookies need 40 man spots. That can be created easy enough. I don’t mind any if they aren’t called up until June. Extra year we own their rights. Keep them away from Haines. If they are good enough to win ROY I call them up in 2 weeks or so. If they aren’t going to amount to anything call them up anytime you need them.
yet there’s a chance that they will still lose because regardless of who plays, runs will be scarce even when Taylor hits a single but strikes out 3 times
I sincerely hope that they lose 60% of the remaining games even when old man Grandal catches Skenes
Nick Yorke the 2nd baseman they got from the Red Sox for Priester is batting.392 going 20 for 51 with 6 doubles
an off day yesterday certainly didn’t help their offensive woes going into tonight’s game, Pirates batters striking out in the first inning
They didn’t miss a beat from Wednesday’s game
Joey Bart is hitting .353 with 18 hits, 5 home runs, 11 RBIs and 10 runs scored in 13 games since July 30, 2024
I don’t dispute Bart’s offense, now do Hayes
Bryan De La Cruz is hitting .375 since August 11
yeah with zero XBH and zero rbi
And Bednar came close to blowing another one
We have a request from a long time, and I do mean a long time listener. Guy had a bad past week but probably just worn out from his previous scorcher of hitting the cover off the ball. This one goes out to Paul.
Ke’Bryan Hayes had a batting average of .308 with 12 hits, 3 RBIs and 6 runs scored in 10 games between July 27, 2024 and August 8, 2024
Ke’Bryan Hayes batted .298 with 14 hits, a homer, 4 RBIs and 7 runs scored in 12 games between July 27, 2024 and August 10, 2024
Mr July
Ke’Bryan Hayes had a batting average of .301 with 28 hits, 4 RBIs and 13 runs scored in 25 games between July 7, 2024 and August 8, 2024
Ke’Bryan Hayes had a .289 batting average with 35 hits, 6 RBIs and 13 runs scored in 32 games between June 28, 2024 and August 8, 2024