As noted by Kevin Gorman of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Pirates GM Ben Cherington made his weekly radio appearance on 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh earlier today. In that appearance, Cherington suggested that right-hander Paul Skenes is in “good shape” in regards to his innings workload to this point in the season. The star rookie has thrown 108 innings so far this year between the major and minor leagues, just below his career high of 129 1/3 between LSU and the minor leagues last year. Cherington went on to suggest that while the club could consider lowering Skenes’s pitch counts at some point but didn’t commit to that path, instead noting that the right-hander’s intense preparation between starts puts him in a good position to handle volume, and that the club’s focus is on how well he recovers between starts rather than his pitch counts or total innings of work.
That’s surely a relief for Pirates fans, as Pittsburgh will need every inning they can get from their young ace as they look to work their way into the playoff conversation. The Pirates currently sit at a decent 56-54 record after buying at the trade deadline. While they’re six games back of the Brewers for the NL Central crown as things stand, Pittsburgh sits just 2.5 games back in a crowded NL Wild Card picture that also features the Braves, Diamondbacks, Padres, Mets, and Cardinals. Skenes has been a huge part of the club’s resurgence this year, as the club has won nine of the 13 games he’s started for them since debuting in mid-May. Team record during a pitcher’s starts is an imperfect measure of that pitcher’s effectiveness, but it’s obvious that Skenes has helped the Pirates in a big way by posting a sparkling 1.90 ERA in 80 2/3 innings of work in the majors while striking out exactly one third of batters faced entering play today.
Skenes isn’t the only young arm that Cherington commented on, as he indicated that right-hander Jared Jones is “real close” to a rehab assignment at Triple-A following a 45-pitch live bullpen session. Cherington suggested that Jones’s first rehab outing is likely to be of a similar pitch count before moving up from there. Pittsburgh’s other front-of-the-rotation rookie has been on the 15-day IL since Independence Day due to a lat strain, but prior to that injury had looked excellent in his first season as a big leaguer with a 3.56 ERA and a 26.4% strikeout rate in 91 innings of work. Jones’s return to action should not only provide the club with a boost down the stretch, but would offer them a daunting and entirely homegrown playoff rotation alongside Skenes and Mitch Keller should the club manage to make the postseason for the first time since 2015.
While the news regarding Jones and Skenes is undoubtedly positive, a turn towards the lineup yields more mixed results. Veteran slugger Andrew McCutchen is out of today’s lineup after being pulled from yesterday’s game due what the team announced as tightness in his left quad muscle. It’s unclear as of yet whether or not the 37-year-old veteran will require a trip to the injured list due to the issue or not, but a lengthy absence for McCutchen would be a frustrating turn of events for a Pirates club that had just begun to fire on all cylinders in the lineup after adding Bryan De La Cruz and Isiah Kiner-Falefa at the trade deadline. The veteran, who has slashed a decent .228/.328/.383 with a 102 wRC+ as the club’s primary DH this year, could be replaced by Connor Joe or a youngster currently at Triple-A like Edward Olivares in the starting lineup if an IL stint is required. Catcher Joey Bart is DH’ing in today’s game, making room for Yasmani Grandal behind the plate.
Speaking of catchers, Cherington offered some positive positional news today when he indicated that there’s a “chance” that longtime catching prospect Endy Rodriguez could play in minor league games before the end of the year despite undergoing what was thought to be season-ending UCL surgery back in December. Cherington cautioned that any such rehab games would first come at DH and then first base due to the excessive pressure put on a player’s arm by the catcher position, though he didn’t completely shut the door on the possibility of Rodriguez getting time behind the plate before the year comes to a close. The 24-year-old switch hitter hit just .220/.284/.328 in his first taste of the majors last year but is a career .282/.361/.442 hitter at Triple-A who was a consensus top-50 prospect in the game prior to his debut and subsequent injury last year.
TheMan 3
the home umpire in this game isn’t calling very many pitches that are actually in the zone as strikes and as usual the Bucs have been swinging at pitches nowhere close to the plate
My other issue, after Bae hits a double , why didn’t Triolo bunt him to third? You’re not getting on base ( Triolo) consistently, this would have made the most sense
They need a third baseman that can hit
And the bullpen blew another lead
kylegocougs
I agree, the reluctance by all of mlb to bunt runners along is baffling in this run scoring environment, especially against power pen arms
YourDreamGM
In order to bunt you would first have to teach them to bunt. I never want to bunt. Build a team with good hitters so you don’t have to. Hardly anyone knows how to. Best not to ever do it.
TheMan 3
while I agree, Dream, Triolo is not a good hitter and as manager, Shelton should have done whatever was needed to move Bae to 3rd base and if that meant a bunt attempt, then so be it.
Or given Bae the sign to steal third
Down 2 runs, you must take chances and Shelton never does
YourDreamGM
What if he got thrown out. Bae is pretty weak stealer for someone with his speed.
TheMan 3
what if Triolo couldn’t move Bae to third, since Triolo is a weak hitter ?
Well he didn’t or.couldn’t so you take a chance with Bae stealing third because chances were not good that Triolo would do the job
YourDreamGM
Triolo shouldn’t have been in the lineup then.
GarryHarris
Good hitters know how to bunt…. Mickey Mantle was an exceptional drag hunter.
Raysasineppswasplanted
Actually Juan Soto is one of the greatests players of our time and an excellent bunter, drag or squared, so you’re 100% right!!!
I Believe We Can Win
Joey Bart quietly having a really good season. Limited sample size but still 150 PA he’s mashing.
Monkey’s Uncle
He’s been a fantastic pickup. Mashes lefties, pitchers seem to work well with him.
mlb fan
Getting away from S.F’s Buster Posey expectations has been like a breath of fresh air for Joey Bart.
TheMan 3
and the double digits strikeouts continue…
Skeptical
Why didn’t Triolo bunt? Because he plays for Shelton who doesn’t seem to understand small ball (or how to use a bullpen). The Pirates may still lose games that they should have won, but at least they are more entertaining than they were two months ago.
TheMan 3
Shelton doesn’t know how to do much to help his team win games and that includes his hitting coach’s ability to instruct these players how to protect the plate
it’s the bottom of the 8th inning and I wonder if he will use guys off the bench for pinch hitting as they are down one run
Buccoprojectory
Shelton is the reason why the pirates are 1 game over 500. If the MORON knew his baseball, the pirates would be challenging millwaukee for the division. Hopefully after the season they make him walk the plank
TheMan 3
someone should explain why Shelton didn’t use Hayes to pinch hit for Cruz when there were runners at the corner and one out against a left hander?
I am just surprised that he doesn’t make every effort to put the team in the best possible position to win games
Joe would have pinch hit for Tellez, why not use Hayes to pinch hit for Cruz?
Buccoprojectory
Hey man…Shelton does not have the brains to use his own judgement in game situations. I might be wrong, but I’m positive he manages by analytics. As for bunting runners into scoring position. It’s not small ball baseball..ITS FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL
Gwynning
I “own” Oneil in all 3 of my Leagues. I’m a big fan and follow his game. He’s been brutal since the ASB… what’s wrong? His Ks, Errors and GIDPs are absolutely killin’ me, Smalls…
I can tolerate a lot of Oh-fers but his recent games are back-breaking to a contender.
Mendoza Line 215
Cruz is fundamentally unsound and makes far too many mental and physical errors.
He likes to strike out on low curveballs.
He can hit the ball very hard but so what.
A team cannot win without soundness up the middle.
The Pirates will never have that with Cruz at shortstop.
YourDreamGM
Because Hayes sucks
YourDreamGM
Managers need paid much more $ if they can make that much difference in wins. Managers need to make more than players if a good manager is the difference in 1 game above 500 or winning division. I think the cubs are on to something.
TheMan 3
Cruz wasn’t much better than Hayes might have been against a lefty, going 1 for 8 over the final two games of the series with 4 strikeouts
Hayes is having a horrible season but he is more likely to put the ball in play against a lefty than Cruz is and if you’re trying to win, as manager, Shelton should have used whatever was available to score runs
TheMan 3
because Haines sucks too
YourDreamGM
I’ll take Cruz power. Don’t even know if Hayes was readily available.
TheMan 3
is that the power that made him 0 for 3 with runners in scoring position yesterday when he struck out all three times?
Yeah Cruz has raw power but he seems to choke when the game is on the line because of his haphazard swinging
YourDreamGM
Still better than bad back no power Hayes
TheMan 3
So you prefer Cruz to face a left handed pitcher to drive in a necessary run despite the fact that he strikes out over 1/3 of the time when he faces both righties and lefties?
ouch
YourDreamGM
Cruz has the most hrs and 2nd most rbis vs LHP so yes I will take him over a bad back no power threat.
TheMan 3
I hope you didn’t place a monetary bet on Cruz’ plate appearance
bucsws2024
Have you watched the Pirates’ bunt attempts over the past six weeks? It’s not that Shelton won’t call for a bunt, it’s that nobody on this team knows how to bunt.
And asking IKF to bunt today was silly. He can hit oppo at will.
YourDreamGM
IKF bunt awful call. Not as awful as Arizona bunting down 2 runs though.
highheat
@YourDreamGM
How was Herrera bunting an awful call? He hits a lot of groundballs, is very slow, and Perdomo isn’t exactly fast either.
That guaranteed that they wouldn’t hit into a double play, and sure enough, Perdomo’s run mattered for the Joc HR.
YourDreamGM
If he’s a ground ball machine hitting into double plays he shouldn’t be on the team.
highheat
@YourDreamGM
Herrera is the back-up catcher… don’t you know that above average offensive catchers don’t grow on trees?
Besides, DBacks seem to be doing fine with him
YourDreamGM
Easy to get. 2 just went at trade deadline for nothing. Pirates got one last minute free agency for nothing.
TheMan 3
I agree, IKF shouldn’t have been given the sign to bunt, he would have had a better chance of moving the runners over by swinging the bat.
Again, a bad call by Shelton
And with an off day Monday, why not use Chapman against Pederson instead of Holderman? The latter had already pitcher to 3 batters that inning so Aroldis could have come in to face Peterson who as Mendoza pointed out, is a Pirate killer and against right handed pitchers
Shelton has a bad habit of leaving certain pitchers in games when it’s apparent they don’t have their best stuff.
YourDreamGM
Dunno. Saw Chapman warm up. Maybe he wasn’t feeling it. Chapman wears down easy. That’s why he only pitches 1 inning no more than 2 days in a row. But Beeks pitched so why not him. Although with a burnt pen you can’t really afford to be using multiple relievers in one inning so that’s probably it.
TheMan 3
you’re making excuses for Shelton’s failures and that isn’t like you, Dream
Today is an off day from games so it’s not like using Chapman wouldn’t be available for the game
He struck out the side in his lone appearance on Saturday
It’s called making the best decisions to give your team a chance to win the game and Shelton failed at every level yesterday
YourDreamGM
No excuses. Just what it is and how managers think. They worry more about the season than a single inning.
TheMan 3
that single inning was the last chance they had to take the series and a team that is supposed to be in the hunt for a playoff berth, every inning matters especially when one of the other teams in contention for a spot is who they are playing
YourDreamGM
I’m not disagreeing. Not how these managers think. And it’s all around baseball. Things Shelton does pretty much every manager does. Rest days are a big thing. Not a rest day if you have to pinch hit. Lineups change all the time. You root for a low revenue team with a cheap owner. You don’t have any stars or superstar bats. It’s all analytics smoke and mirrors. Who cares what average player bats where or what average reliever pitches where. It’s a average team. Rebuild is over and it’s average. Fans fantasy about 2025. They can sign some better free agents and then the real contention begins. Not happening. Nutting ain’t going on a spending spree. More guys no other team wants. 1b next year could be Rowdy or Santana or the next version. CF Taylor again or next version. Everyone else is same exact team. Reynolds LF Cruz RF Hayes 3b Gonzales 2b Bart Endy catcher. Cutch Davis DH. And probably Cruz at SS. Only upgrade is IKF super utility. Cherington might get the cheap bright idea to make him starting cf or something. Team will be a lil better because of the depth.
TheMan 3
Next year problems could overwhelm their potential as they did this season. No one expected that Endy would be lost for the year, or that Oviedo will need TJ surgery
The unexpected could cause another lost season from bad signings ( due to financial constraints) and injuries
There’s not enough depth for position players in the minors to overcome any loss of current players
YourDreamGM
They traded for depth at deadline. Would take a ton of injuries to sink this team in 2025. Both new prospects can play infield outfield. Gonzales Endy can play infield outfield. IKF can play anywhere. Bae Triolo haven’t shown they can hit but can play different spots.
What they need is a mvp contender or 2 in lineup.
TheMan 3
It’s impossible to predict how injuries will impact the team and which player that might be
That’s all I am saying
Buctober 2
Dream, I don’t think that’s how the lineup will look by midseason, but you’re probably correct about how it will look to start the season.
I think Yorke will be better than Gonzales and Billy Cook will be better than De La Cruz. Heck, Cook is probably better than the negative WAR player De La Cruz is right now (Connor Joe is better as well).
I think they go with Endy at First Base and have Bart, Endy, and Davis all on the roster (replace Davis with Delay if Davis is traded). I also think Billy Cook will be on the roster.
I think the position players look something like this:
Davis (or Delay)
Endy
Bart
Gonzales
Cruz
Hayes
IKF
Reynolds
De La Cruz
Cook
Bae (or free agent/trade CF)
Bae (if they sign/trade for a CF), Joe (if he agrees to bargain arb price), Cutch (if he doesn’t retire), Triolo, Yorke, or free agent for the last two spots.
User 4095290658
There’s no way Cruz doesn’t get moved off of SS this coming offseason, IMO.
GMBC is all about helping the pitchers, and having a guy make every play at the most important position a heart in mouth affair is unsettling the staff on a daily basis.
I believe he targeted IKF to start at SS if Cruz can’t improve defensively …. and he won’t! The plus side being that O’Neill is intriguing as both a CF and 1B. Forget RF now the Bucs have BDLC locked up for next season.
User 4095290658
Just to add…. the Padres go out of their way sign shortstops with power then move them down the defensive spectrum, and for the most part, it seems to work.
Buctober 2
Cruz isn’t really an issue at Shortstop, he grades out about average defensively. But, I do agree that the Pirates have better options. I think both IKF and Hayes would be better there. Cruz has a slick glove, so if anything I’d try to move him to Third Base before moving him to First Base or the Outfield.
BDLC isn’t a good player. He shouldn’t be penciled in for anything other than a bench spot. He’s been worth negative WAR each of the last two seasons and has only accumulated 1 bWAR in 1500 Plate Appearances. He’s not a good player.
The Pirates will have plenty of better options for RF next season. Billy Cook, Endy, Cruz (if they move him off SS), Yorke, Joe (if they bring him back), and even Suwinski is more than likely to produce more WAR next year than BDLC. If BDLC is the starting RF next season something went terribly wrong. He’s a bench player, and an average one at that.
User 4095290658
I’m interested to see where Cruz grades as an average defensive SS and the old school errors are damning.
Pretty much every stat at BBREF grades him as very poor or poor and his UZR/150 on FG is also awful.
YourDreamGM
Will see what these geniuses come up with. Cruz likes ss and so far they seem to baby him. He didn’t like the outfield so that experiment didn’t last long. He looked better at ss this year than any other year but how much better if any can he get. I will guess he ends up at 1b with some rf. Won’t be shocked if he is still at ss. Cf would be impressive.
User 4095290658
He’s not getting any better defensively at 25 years old, FFS. I’d liken him to Eugenio Suarez as a SS with pop who needs moved off the position to give the pitching a break.
TheMan 3
yeah his 21 errors at shortstop makes him a perfect fit for that position
User 4095290658
Which position?
You know he has to play somewhere, right?
Buctober 2
I honestly don’t know what they’ll do. If I were making the decisions I’d either move him to Third Base or RF (although if he could play CF that would be amazing, but it’s doubtful). IKF or Hayes could play SS next season. You’re wasting his arm and athleticism at First Base.
If you put him in RF you still have Billy Cook and Endy for First Base and you get BDLC out of the starting lineup. I don’t think Hayes will move off of Third Base either, so I don’t really think that’s a realistic option either. I just talked myself into RF being the ultimate destination for him haha. I guess we’ll all see, but if they keep him at SS for next season I’m okay with that as well.
TheMan 3
First base is the best position for him. Easy to stretch out to catch thrown balls to get batters out and tall enough to catch balls
Cruz can be a one man wrecking crew playing shortstop with his erratic arm
Buctober 2
First Base wastes two of his best attributes, his arm and athleticism. It’s the same reason the Pirates avoided moving Davis to First Base and tried him in RF first.
He’s also only 25 and like I mentioned, EXTREMELY athletic. You don’t waste an athlete of his caliber at First Base. He might eventually end up there, but if he’s moved off of SS he’ll move to a position that utilizes his athleticism and arm first. There isn’t a team in pro baseball that would move him to First Base right now.
Gwynning
I always have found it funny that Pitt has 93.7 The Fan and San Diego has 97.3 The Fan! Skenes, Jones + Keller would be awfullllyyyy scary to face in a Postseason set. Good luck Bucs! And go Pads. 🙂
Buccoprojectory
Yea but 97.3 here in pittsburgh sucks. The “so called” radio hosts are all self righteous, loud mouthed idiots. Who think they know everything. Especially Andrew Filafidingdong and Chris Mooler. 2 idiots who weren’t around when the pirates and steelers and penguins were in their heyday.
Gwynning
I don’t know those cats, but our Fan is pretty cool. Bummer that we “lost” Coach Kentera (his show was the best!) but all in all, it’s easy listening all day.
ScottReppert
Exactly…
TheMan 3
Tough loss that they had several opportunities to score runs but choked by striking out when it mattered
Cruz added another 3 to his season total of 134, twice with runners in scoring position. That’s unacceptable for a team trying to make the playoffs. If this was a rarity it could be understood but it’s become a regular occurrence
13 times they struck out today
Lets Go DBacks
Diamondbacks and Pirates have played two really intense series these past 2 weeks. Great games to watch. Unfortunately for you the Diamondbacks came on top, but the Pirates have a nice team to battle for playoffs and an interesting future if they can continue to add.
TheMan 3
you don’t know this franchise very well, DBacks, they don’t add well in the offseason.
They added at the deadline this year because they feel this is their best chance of making the playoffs
Additions like Michael A Taylor and Rowdy Tellez aren’t going to take you to the promised land and that’s the type of players they sign
Because they sign cheap
Monkey’s Uncle
… or, you could thank him for the show of respect before complaining again.
TheMan 3
you confused my complaining with facts
Monkey’s Uncle
No, not confused at all. Your opinion,while quite valid and very defensible, is just that, opinion. Many many people agree with your opinions, including me many times. But they aren’t fact.
And in any event, you’re (intentionally?) missing my point. Dbacks showed some respect to you and your team. Maybe try reciprocating instead of spitting opinion/facts again next time.
kzw
I don’t disagree with you but I totally get where TheMan is coming from. Cherington (like many Pirate fans) had to know this is the year where Skenes and Jones were coming up to make their presence known. Chandler and Harrington not far behind those two. Why not make at least a tiny effort to give them a chance to succeed? How many games has this team lost this year when they’ve had a quality start out of a starter? It’s ridiculous how many games this team has lost when giving up 4 runs. Ridiculous.
Mendoza Line 215
Kzw–The bullpen did not lose this game today,Shelton did.He is good in several ways but not smart enough to handle a bullpen.Why in the world wasn’t a lefthander pitching to Pirate killer Peterson today?Why was Holderman in there when he has stunk up the joint lately.?The Pirates will never be a winning team with Cruz at shortstop and Shelton managing and Haines being the hitting coach.
kzw
I completely agree with you about today’s game. In fact, I said the same thing to my dad the second he pulled Skenes. I was talking more in general though. And I fully agree with you on everything although I do think Cruz could be very good if he’d just cut down on the K’s.
Mendoza Line 215
Cruz has good ability but he doesn’t use it.
He is not a student of the game.
He makes way too many mental and physical errors.
He swings at so many low curveballs that it is pathetic.
He is capable of losing a game all by himself.
If Cherington had any guts he would tell him that he is going to play first base next year and go to Arizona to learn how to play the position.
YourDreamGM
They sign cheap players because it’s all they can afford.
kzw
He already has lost a game all by himself. The 3 error, 3 K game against Houston. And Woodford pitched his tail off.
Mendoza Line 215
LGDB’s- Thank you for your graciousness.The Dbacks have a good manager and much better hitters.
The Pirates tend to be their own worst enemies.
Until they get better management and development they will not come close to the pennant that you guys won last year.
IsIt2025Already?
They’d need to win 35 of the rest of their games. It’s not happening this year. Fire Shelton and hire Skip Shumaker this offseason.
YourDreamGM
Shelton is doing great. Skip ain’t going to do anything different. Rangers have maybe the best manager in baseball, huge payroll, multiple super stars and are 6 games under 500. You need better bats. Manager isn’t the problem.
User 1286178995
Uncle Sheltie would be a great farm manager. But if you’re looking for competent guys who can manage game situations and lineup cars and also inspire young players, the nice uncle approach is a loser. He’s unable to communicate focus and intensity
Maybe you look for someone who emulates Baltimore’s manager who to me is the best in the game where getting the most out of players is concerned
User 4095290658
I don’t like Shelton, but to me the scapegoat for the Pirates has to be Haines. It’s hard to believe he still has a job with the constant failure to hit by players at the MLB level over the last few seasons.
On the flipside, Oscar Marin has done a wonderful job as pitching coach.
UWPSUPERFAN77
You guys blew one today. I like your chances to beat my Brewers as much as SL! You guys got solid pitching and deserve a winner, based on your patience and long suffering!
Mendoza Line 215
UW-Thanks for the kudos,but this wasn’t the first one blown and it won’t be the last.
The team is not well managed.It is not fundamentally sound.And has no hitters being developed.
User 1286178995
They have solid pitching and a couple guys on the cusp who will truly solidify the rotation in ‘25. Pity they have Reynolds and little else
A brain dead manager, uninspired players and an owner who’s happy to rake in profits before providing any sort of upgrades.
You provide kind words here but the suffering won’t end anytime soon
bucsws2024
Cutch did PH today and wasn’t even pinch run for, so whatever he had can’t be that serious.
Human Being
I just wish Shelton wouldn’t misuse the bullpen. I think a few of the guys are worn out for playing without rest.
Mendoza Line 215
Holderman certainly seems to be.
Not sure about any others.If anything,he is too careful with some of them.
YourDreamGM
Someone has to pitch. Blame the rain delay and the gm for not shuttling in some fresh arms.
TheMan 3
Especially with an off day Monday, BC could have shuffled a fresh arm from Indy to pitch Sunday if needed
Your facing a team with the most runs scored in the league and not being prepared for it suggests that they were depending on Skenes to have his best stuff so to limit the use of the bullpen
Mendoza Line 215
The Pirates are in deep trouble if Edward Olivares has to become their DH.
YourDreamGM
I solved the dh problem. Since this is a new century you need a full time dh! You use the dh as a rest day for position players! Cutch is fine but is only the dh because he can’t play the field. If he goes out there is no dh. Whoever needs a lil break is the dh that day. Or one of the catchers since both are hitting well.
User 4095290658
Also more opportunities to hide a defensively challenged shortstop now IKF is on board and Triolo can play 2nd.
YourDreamGM
Triolo can’t hit so he can’t play anywhere.
User 4095290658
Lol….true.
Thankfully, GMBC acquired two guys at the deadline plus Nicky G will be back soon.
I suggested Triolo to Indy last week and TheMan3 said the Bucs really need his D!
TheMan 3
by the way, yesterday was Hayes’ scheduled day off which explains why Shelton didn’t use him as a pinch hitter
If Shelton had been Ripken Jr’s manager, he’d have never broken the consecutive games played record
User 4095290658
I think Hayes really struggles with a constant back issue. You can see him wince whenever he overswings against breaking balls from RH pitching.
He probably needs even more rest days, which is unfortunate considering the long term contract. Somebody online mentioned platooning him with Cruz at 3rd and let IKF play fulltime SS which might not be a bad idea when Nick G returns.
TheMan 3
If Hayes isn’t always available because of his injured back then he should be put on the IL.
They are supposed to be trying to make the playoffs, and will need every player available to reach that goal
YourDreamGM
Seems like his back will always be a issue. Bad backs don’t usually get better. IL isn’t going to help. Is another team stupid enough to want someone that isn’t available so frequently?
TheMan 3
If Cruz’ throws are erratic playing shortstop imagine how much worse they would be playing third base
User 4095290658
Are the throws to first the biggest problem?
From what I’ve seen lately, it’s his involvement as the key player on DP’s, steals and relays that’s exposing him as a 1B/OF faking it at SS.
TheMan 3
I agree, Terrier1980, but unfortunately, his fielding isn’t this team’s only problem.
The issue that has nagged this team all year was exposed again in last night’s game
Lack of offense. All of the best pitching in the league won’t win games without an offense that can out score your opponents and they simply don’t have it
User 1286178995
This off season, trade Hayes and a lifetime load of sunflower seeds while he has value. Branch Rickey once described to Ralph Kiner why he was being traded. The same goes for this guy
It’s like watching a mannequin play
TheMan 3
Hayes’ problem in my opinion and there’s a few, he’s complacent. Yeah he gets a single once in awhile and steals a base but there’s no urgency in his plate appearances. It’s like he just goes through the motions
He also knows his job is secure, no matter how badly his offense is because of his arm
He’s similar to Cruz’ attitude. Both are babied but for different reasons
Buctober 2
Shelton probably had the worst “performance” I’ve ever seen from a Manager in a game yesterday.
It started with the lineup, then going to the struggling Holderman instead of letting Stratton go out for another inning, then not bringing in the lefty (who was warming up) to face Pederson, then the IKF bunt with two on and no outs down two runs. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Manager screw up so many obvious decisions in one game. When IKF bunted I wasn’t even mad anymore, I was legitimately laughing at how bad Shelton is and how low his baseball IQ is. You’d have a hard time convincing me he wasn’t betting against the Pirates yesterday. Someone needs to check his bank account.
I’ll also repeat that Bryan De La Cruz isn’t a very good hitter, but Shelton keeps batting him cleanup. On a given night De La Cruz is the Pirates 6th or 7th best hitter, so that’s where he should be hitting in the lineup.
TheMan 3
Andy Haines needs to go, another game with minimal number of hits, only one XBH, another double digit strikeout performance and the inability to score any runs, and during a bullpen game no less
Again, the question arises, how can every player consistently be in an offensive slump comes to mind
Sure, occasionally they will have breakout situations where they score a few runs but those are few and far between
If Haines doesn’t lose his job at season’s end, this trend will continue and far beyond the current rebuild
User 1286178995
I used to be a tiredolddude but after leaving town I found I’d lost my log in info, so here I am
Anyone with an interest in what ails the Pirates need only read Jason Mackey’s column in today’s PG. He describes it perfectly, especially where Hayes is concerned. Mr.Aloof, “the cornerstone of the franchise” who plays like he’d rather be anyplace else
Cheapskate owner, lackluster GM, poor manager and inept players who can’t hit…or field. But this team was never a contender and will do nothing of consequence in the off season
But hey, the rebuild is over, at least. What a pathetic franchise
TheMan 3
welcome back, SenorFigs, your assessment of this team is spot on !
But allow me to add more context to this discussion, the lackluster GM has convinced the gullible fans that they have assembled a winning team and the gullible fans will eat it up and show their stupidity by attending games, wasting their money and contributing to the cheapskate owner’s profit
User 1286178995
I had it my mind to come back as a kinder, gentler older dude.
I watched Skenes’ last start and wondered aloud as to why Grandal kept calling for the splinter when he couldn’t move it from outside the box to near the plate after 4 innings
All that resulted was the pitch count rising and Skenes laboring, mirroring what we saw in his first start
The guy has numerous pitches but this was the route they took
Simple little pieces that act as a microcosm for what goes on with the team. The poor at bats that occur game in and game out, Cruz not able to get to balls in either hole, pop flies dropping in, jogging to 1st
I often have to remind myself this is an MLB team.
I enjoyed the Savannah Bananas-Party Animals game on Saturday. It’s not even AAA ball but the guys play with a zest and love of the game you don’t see here, and even their trick plays and at bats look more fundamentally sound than what some of the “blue chip” players here offer
YourDreamGM
“lost my log in info” aka lady boy robbed me. You’re lucky you still have your kidneys.
YourDreamGM
It would be nice if there was a unemployed hitting coach or manager that you could hire and magically make this team good. I don’t believe in that fantasy but it’s worth a try. I don’t see Shelton going anywhere. I won’t be surprised to see Haines back in 2025. They can’t buy all star bats. They didn’t have the caliber of players with that trade value. They tried drafting them but so far failed. Only thing to do is trade for them but Cherington doesn’t want to make a huge loss trade. Around 500 80 some wins might be as good as it gets.
User 1286178995
First off, your continued fascination with ladyboys is troubling. Even disturbing. Again, I was in a completely opposite direction of the world. No ladyboys
But if we are going to talk Asia, I have to ask if you’ve watched Mr.Baseball again. Have you taken notes? Do you now regard Uchiyama as a genius of a manager, a guy with no need for analytics or the nerds who walk around with iPads?
And Nakamura, the owner not afraid to bring in talent and to rattle cages?
If only there was some way to bring them to Pittsburgh, along with Jack and Hiroku, of course
Agree with you in this posting 100%. And I’ve said it for two plus years now, I’m ok with .500 play. That’s my expectation. Would love to see hustling players with focus and intensity. But I’ll rely on the Savannah Bananas for that
YourDreamGM
I searched and it wasn’t free anywhere. I will find it at a thrift store for a buck or 2 one day. Splurge $4 on ebay. I tried it before and wasn’t entertained. Much prefer planet of apes. Although it’s hard for me to watch a movie more than a couple times. Might have to because they don’t make many good movies or tv shows. After baseball season I am in trouble with my tv entertainment.
User 1286178995
The apes can’t play baseball, dude!
Seriously?
YourDreamGM
Are you sure about that. They can ride horses and shoot rifles. Lasso the necks of man animals.
TheMan 3
this conversation wouldn’t have been necessary had the front office realized that the current hitting coach wasn’t making progress after last season’s disappointing offensive performance
Instead of firing Indy’s hitting coach after last season, they should have promoted him to the parent club and fired Haines
Haines has had 4 years to move this offense in the right direction and doesn’t deserve to return next season
User 1286178995
There is some philosophy at work here, my friend, at that can be the only reason. Whether it is to exude patience or some sense of permanence for the maturation of those within the rebuild, there is no sense or urgency nor any type of accountability here
That goes for Haines, Shelton, or those employed in their scouting or player development departments
I’m guessing that the idea is to be patient until it hurts. And it flies in the face of modern professional athletics
If I had to guess the philosophy of the front office at this very moment and moving into 2025, it’s simply this: we’ll go as far as pitching takes us. Nothing more. We’ll hitch everything to Skenes/Jones/Keller and whichever other two guys step up….and between their shutdown starts and games we can scratch out wins or those few where the offense comes alive, maybe we can get a WC berth and be dangerous
I’m guessing this will be in place for the foreseeable future. No notable signings or trades. Just pray that whatever you have on the farm progresses
TheMan 3
the problem with the potential maturity of the minor leaguers is by the time they are ready for a promotion to the parent club, current pitchers will probably be recovering from TJ surgery or experiencing their own slumps.
Injuries can not be predicted or prevented and sooner or later Keller, Jones and Skenes will suffer some form of injury that will adversely impact the team’s chances of success
YourDreamGM
Nowhere to move the offense. Connor Joe has been around this is as good as he has been. No one wanted Vogey and Haines got him hitting to where he was tradable. No one thought Rowdy was worth more than 3m. Haines didn’t fix him and heck probably didn’t help Vogey but just saying you have to have something to work with. When guys are signing for 2 3 4 5 million that means 29 other teams don’t think much about their talent.
All for firing Haines. I wouldn’t have hired him to begin with. Would have fired him last year. You can’t polish a … When Rowdy and Gonzales have to fix themselves and go out of their way to tell you they fixed themselves I think it’s time for some new blood. Just don’t expect it to drastically increase wins.
YourDreamGM
The Pittsburgh rebuild was one if the fastest I ever seen. 2020 they couldn’t do anything because of the health panic. So two lousy seasons 21 22 and rebuild bout over. 23 was almost or even as good as the 24 team. Untill injuries hit. KC Detroit started their rebuild in 17 18 and aren’t any better in fact I would say worse. Col LA CHI are just hopeless. If Bob follows baseball at all then Cherington probably gets a huge raise and extension.
User 1286178995
I would wonder whether—if you put this rebuild in Baltimore, Cleveland or Milwaukee—if they’d call it quick. Or finished?
I’m very doubtful
The problem is that this rebuild was “ completed” piecemeal. It wasn’t complete. It’s why they are where they are
YourDreamGM
Baltimore is amazing. Player scouting and or development is elite. Best or top 3. They rebuild better than Pittsburgh on that alone. End of story.
But they take it even further because they also been rebuilding longer. They tore it down trade deadline 2018 vs Pittsburgh start of 2021. Then they have at number 1 Adley vs our #1 Davis. They get Holliday we have to settle for TJ. Although TJ should be much closer than what he is.
Then they trade for Burnes and 2 other starters.
Better farm and willing to trade some of it. And they didn’t trade away 3 top young players for Archer.
Cleveland and Milwaukee don’t really rebuild. They just reload. So never started from scratch recently. But better development still.
TheMan 3
An article in sportsskeeda.com describes the disappointment of signing Hayes to his long term contract due to his regression at the plate this year
It’s an interesting story
User 1286178995
The article doesn’t say anything we don’t know. The best option is to trade him this offseason. I’d think he still has some value.
Maybe I’m wrong but again, he plays as if he doesn’t want to be here. His dad alluded to that one year ago.
TheMan 3
Who exactly would be interested in obtaining a player who has great defensive skills but is an offensive liability, especially with his contract?
User 1286178995
I’m betting there are teams that would covet the glove and believe they can make a hitter out of him. (He has 2 hits tonight. It’s almost automatic that when we talk about a player, they have a big game)
Not many Pirates with value here. Have to believe he’d be one. No matter. He’s the “cornerstone” here
YourDreamGM
Hayes back is the issue. Who wants a bad back. His contract is fine if he is healthy. I don’t blame him for wanting to leave. He obviously doesn’t think much if the hitting instructors.
User 1286178995
I’m doubtful of the back excuse
As for wanting to leave, Lou Holtz said it best about teamwork. Everyone is rowing the lifeboat to shore. It’s hard enough let alone when one guy stands up and stops rowing.
TheMan 3
I think complacency has struck several of the players, knowing there’s no one in the minors who can replace them
So they play without any urgency, trying to pull the ball on an outside pitch. Ironically, the only player that hits the ball the other way with any consistency is Hayes
Triolo is another one who I think has become complacent and has regressed horrible this year
And Dream is right, for a player who possesses great speed, Bae can’t steal a base to save his life
User 1286178995
You and I were wrong in our impressions of Triolo and Bae, respectively. At best, neither is more than a utility option at this point
Agree with your thoughts on complacency and that’s emblematic of Shelton’s time as manager. He refuses to hold feet to the fire. Maybe that’s his nature and maybe it’s orders from above
I saw Noah Hiles’s report on the top 10 farmhands in the PG the other day. Other than Bubba and Harrington, two starting pitchers, it is hard to see anyone providing immediate help, if they ever materialize at all
As stated previously, their MO is going to be based around a stellar pitching staff by itself. And again, hopefully Marco won’t be a part of it
YourDreamGM
Don’t know who is in his top 10 but Yorke Cook are ready for MLB look. Probably average bats so is that ready to help? It’s depth. Another Gonzales pretty much and a Joe with more speed and defense and versatility. Ashcraft is mlb ready. Burrows is pitching. TJ isn’t ready this year and probably not next but looking much better than Spring and last year. Barco Meuth aren’t close but still look like MLB arms. Griffin is easily our 2nd best prospect. 3 4 years away. Probably a development failure. But his ceiling is as high as anyone. Like all star MVP hall of fame ceiling. Best thing I like about him is if our hitting development fails then let Oscar and his team have a shot at him pitching. He is a 1st round talent as a pitcher. 96 mph at age 17.
Endy and Henry aren’t prospects but there is still plenty of development to be done. Heck development Jack back to 2023 and there’s a difference maker. Oviedo will ve back.
User 1286178995
I’m trying to remember the names
Termarr. Check
Bubba and Harrington. Yep
Cooke. Yes
Nunez.
They did not mention Endy or Davis, although Endy had a whole column dedicated to how his rehab has gone and his hopes to be back this season.
A couple names I didn’t recognize but were down at A or lower
TheMan 3
if these position players are ready what are they doing in the minors?
Once more my question is name the current position players in the minors on the cusp of being promoted?
I am not talking about pitchers, position players only
YourDreamGM
And gotta get in 1b to steal 2nd.
Triolo is actually better this year than last year. Not by much but better. I told you he was astronomical lucky last year. The luck ran out. He is actually a bit unlucky this year. His average last year was around 300 and it should have been .230 and this year it’s around.200 and should be around .230
Remember July 5th I said write this down Grandpal .171 average it should go up. And I checked yesterday it was up to .200. Grandpal should be hitting .240ish. So if he kept swinging the bat like he has this season for 3 years his average in those 3 years should be close to .240 Triolo should rise a bit but could go down. It’s 2 months of season left. Not enough sample to level off. And he is at .199 so not far to .230 where Grandpal at .171 was 60 points off.
TheMan 3
9 strike outs in 6 innings, another pathetic performance by a team who wants to make the playoffs including Cruz watching a third strike go right by him without taking the bat off his shoulder
Instead old man Cutch drives in two runs
User 1286178995
Teams sure caught onto Bednar, didn’t they?
Skeptical
Shelton sure likes to destroy his pitchers. Holderman is in a rut, but Shelton keeps putting him into high pressure situations to watch him crumble.
TheMan 3
Chapman, who has become a steadier pitcher than both Bednar and Holderman should be given the closer role.
Can’t hurt
And while they scored 8 runs, they only managed 2 xbh and struck out 15 times
YourDreamGM
I’m old enough to remember when Pirates fans wanted to extend Bednar.
TheMan 3
I admit to being one of those fans, Dream, but in all fairness, who comes have predicted this enormous fall from grace?
Enduring what was essentially a bullpen game Tuesday night, is there a valid reason why BC didn’t promote a pitcher from Indy in case Gonzalez would need lifted early in tonight’s game and start using the bullpen?
YourDreamGM
Baseball history. Lots of relievers have been good for a few years then disappear for a few years or even forever. Bednar not the most fit guy I’ve seen. He could still be fine. I just gave that stat a week ago that from like may something to then he had a 1.87 era or something. I do that for my old friends. I don’t and any good baseball person doesn’t look at era. Here’s why he is struggling. 2022 k per 9 12 hr per 9 0.7 2023 k per 9 10.7 hr per 9 0.4 2024 k per 9 9.2 hr per 9 1.4 So when you don’t strike out as many they get more chances to hit ball which increases hrs. And it’s luck. And he gave up as many hrs in April as he did the rest of the season until tonight. He can rebound. But ideally you want your closer and setup man to have well into double digit k’s.
You weren’t alone. Vast majority of fans wanted to extend him. I wanted to trade him. His value would never be higher. Relievers have the most risk. Bednar pitched 8 innings in June and 5 innings in July. Could have got some real nice prospects and hopefully one develops into someone who plays more than 13 innings in 2 months. Look at Tampa and Miami whos new gm came from Tampa did. They weren’t contending. They pretty much both traded their entire bullpen. Got a ton of high upside prospects and will easily rebuild their pen for next year. You weren’t alone my friend. Got a lot of negative feedback on my wanting to trade Bednar.
They were off Monday so last night they were ok. Why he isn’t bringing in fresh arms for today’s game is better ? But what arms are at Indy? Pirates pen is a mess. Rock and hard place. They have mlb arms but they aren’t playoff caliber arms. Probably should have traded for another reliever and sent someone down. There was a few bargains available. Heck 1 guy famously went unclaimed for less than a million.
User 1286178995
You actually convinced me about closers being a dime a dozen
I just didn’t see them trading a hometown kid
It’s funny. Hayes. Bednar. Suwinski. Three guys they could’ve traded at a good value and now, three whose value has lessened greatly
You’ll have to pardon my continually bringing Hayes into the convo. I’ve never been a fan of players who play with little fire, little passion. Don’t care if he hits .400 the rest of the way
YourDreamGM
For fans of the always contend model, I like these 2 bats to go with Griffin in 2027 28 29 Yordany De Los Santo and Tony
Blanco Jr. Young and far away but good pedigree and off to great start professionally. Should catch the final year or 2 of Skenes Jones Keller. Skenes should be departing a year sooner when he wins Roy. But they can extend him. Or trade him. Goal is not to rebuild ever again. Cherington isn’t thinking windows so Pirates fans shouldn’t either. Trade Bednar Skenes Jones Keller Reynolds Cruz for prospects. Farm system always needs to be strong. Pirates are set up to have wining record teams for the rest of this decade and into the next. BC was dealt a weak hand for this rebuild. He wasn’t perfect but he got the job done and fast. He seems to be improving. At a snails pace but improving.
TheMan 3
BC was dealt a weak hand for this latest rebuild yet has failed to capitalize off of it. This is year number 5 of his role as GM and there isn’t one position player that he obtained in a trade that is close to being promoted to the parent club
that isn’t already here
Name the position players he obtained in trades that are close to being promoted to the major league club
YourDreamGM
That’s the weak hand part. He didn’t have anyone to trade. Nats are doing a heck of a job with their rebuild but they had 2 mvp contenders and a cy young to trade. Like I said above Bednar was our best trade chip. Not that it would matter. Development is the problem. TJ was the best prep hitter scouts have seen in a decade and he struggled far too much until recently. Davis #1 pick in draft. Top 5 by all or most outlets. Not drafted for his catching obviously.
Cherington was living in fantasy land. He traded for a kid with a arm bar. Unlikely to succeed at this level unless fixed. Last I seen he still had the arm bar. He came over in the Musgrove trade! CSN ground ball machine. Can’t make it unless you get him to hit the ball in the air. Never hit ball in air. Even Gonzales 1st round pick. Had a weakness with his swing. They didn’t fix it. He was a bust. But he fixed himself. I will look up what evaluators said at time of Cherington trade or draft of some of these players. You can see why he traded for them. Just never developed them. I know Peguero was a good one. Bat speed, loud contact. Advanced for age. Everything you want in a prospect.
YourDreamGM
“When international amateur free agents are signed at age 16, it can often take a while for projected tools to show up. Then there are players like Peguero, who signed with the D-backs in July 2017 for $475,00, who come out of the gate swinging a hot bat. He hit his way out of the Dominican Summer League to the United States during his pro debut in 2019 and then dominated the Pioneer League in 2019, earning a promotion to the short-season Northwest League in the process. The rest of his development will now be up to the Pirates, who acquired him along with pitching prospect Brennan Malone in the Starling Marte deal.
Peguero could be a plus hitter when all is said and done. He can really impact the baseball from the right side of the plate, with plus bat speed that enables him to smash good velocity and make consistent barreled contact. The extra-base ability is already showing up and there’s more power to come as he adds strength to his projectable frame. He has an advanced approach for a teenager and already shows the ability to recognize spin and control the strike zone, with his plus speed that aids him on both sides of the ball.”
YourDreamGM
“A two-sport standout at his high school in Texas, Head jumped on scouts’ radars when he hit .615 as a senior. The Padres loved his athleticism and set a then-record for third-round bonuses by giving him $3 million in the 2019 Draft, despite his relative lack of track record. His pro debut in the Rookie-level Arizona League (.283/.383/.417) made it seem like a worthwhile investment, and even though he was slowed by a hamstring issue in 2020, he still showed off some loud tools during his time at the Padres’ alternate training site before joining the Pirates courtesy of the Joe Musgrove trade.”
YourDreamGM
“Davis put himself on the map as a top college bat for the 2021 Draft class when he posted a 1.179 OPS for Louisville in the shortened 2020 season. He moved into the top of the Draft contention with a .370/.483/.663 line with 15 homers in 2021. The Pirates loved his bat and were blown away by his makeup, vaulting him to the top spot. They saved money to boot, allowing them to get three high-end high school prospects later in the Draft. Davis hit three homers in eight games during his pro debut, though an oblique injury cut his first summer short.
While he doesn’t do it conventionally, with a bit of an unorthodox setup and right-handed swing, few doubt he’s going to hit. He walked more than he struck out at Louisville, recognizing pitches well and making consistent hard contact. He can hit it out to all fields and though he can get a little pull-happy at times, he manages his strikeout rate quite well.”
YourDreamGM
“Johnson is a potential No. 1 overall choice because he might be the best pure prep hitter in decades. He has a track record of pummeling pitchers on the showcase circuit and some evaluators give his bat top-of-the-scale 80 grades. One scout gave him a double Hall of Famer comparison by calling him a combination of Wade Boggs’ plate discipline and Vladimir Guerrero Sr.’s bat-to-ball skills.
Johnson’s hand-eye coordination and swing decisions make him an elite contact hitter from the left side of the plate. He isn’t fazed by mid-90s fastballs or quality breaking balls, using his quick, compact stroke to drive the ball to all fields. Though his listed 5-foot-10 height might be a bit generous, his ability to barrel balls along with his bat speed and strength could make him a 25-30 homer threat in the big leagues.”
TheMan 3
My question was to name a position player that BC traded for that is on the cusp of being promoted to the parent club
There’s no depth at Indy that meets that criteria so there’s no one
Yes. Monday was an off day but Tuesdays game turned out to be a bullpen game because of the rain delays
BC could have brought Ryan back up just to have a fresh arm for last night’s game and instead relied on pitchers who haven’t been effective and in my opinion, misused
User 1286178995
I’ll debate the scouting reports about Davis forever
I admit, I didn’t see him in college. I have no basis for the rave reviews
But it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a hitter who has two major problems:
One, he’s relatively easy to bust inside on a continual basis
Two, any pitcher who can change speeds and pitches will have him eating out of his hand
This says nothing about glove angles while catching and arm strength. I get that you draft players on raw talent and ability, but #1 overall?
Dream, you seem to alternate between giving. Cherington a pass on this wonderful era of mediocrity and calling him a bumbling idiot. I tend to think he’s simply out of his element here
This trade deadline period kind of illustrates the problem. You say the rebuild is over. You say BC doesn’t want to have another rebuild period And yet, he clings to farmhands who only provide depth to the guys already in place and nothing more, when bringing in a couple power bats or at least guys with that ability made sense
We’ll never know who BC targeted. We’ll never know what teams wanted in return. But the moves he made were questionable, at best
TheMan 3
it’s 5 years into BC’s tenure as GM and while they have improved, they still haven’t reached that pinnacle of being a contender
That’s my point regarding not having players at Indy that aren’t ready for a promotion
Look at the Orioles. They recently promoted their highest ranking prospect and he’s hit a home run in three consecutive games
We’re lucky to get even a double out of our veterans
It sickens me to watch other teams develop their players better and faster
YourDreamGM
He just traded for 2 last week Yorke and Cook. Both could be called up at any time and both will hit just as good as Bae Triolo Jack. With any luck better.
User 1286178995
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say neither will be impact players. You see, my thinking comes from his previous trades for prospects. I’ll believe it when I see it
YourDreamGM
Only thing I criticize BC on is hitting development and not firing Haines. Those are the big 2. And he traded for development projects when he didn’t have the player development to take them on.
There wasn’t many bats available. Could have got Canha or Turner but he didn’t want rentals in his playoff odds position and they weren’t needle movers. And Turner is dh 1b at this point so no spot for him. Canha is just another Joe.
YourDreamGM
Davis went #1 because he took the lowest $. #1 was about getting Bubba. But a college bat is much safer than a hs kid. Davis was easily the best pick.
YourDreamGM
You guys just cherry pick all the top tier development teams like Baltimore Tampa. I never hear why can’t we be like the Tigers Angels Rockies.
YourDreamGM
You aren’t supposed to get impact for someone who couldn’t even make his college rotation and Priester.
User 1286178995
Sorry Dream, I don’t consider either in the same situation as the Pirates
LA is not small market. Yeah, their owner is an ass but they’ve spent money
Detroit has splurged too, on guys like Baez
Not the Rays model. No hunt of the same type of rebuild
User 1286178995
*hint
User 1286178995
Well, the answer is no one. No impact players under BC
Cruz looks more like Gregory Polanco with each passing week
Hayes….I’ve said enough.
Gonzales fixed his own swing, yes. But will he be an impact player?
Suwinski. Davis. Olivares. Bae. Triolo. Davis. Joe.
And a list of minor leaguers who came and went
TheMan 3
it’s been a year long band of merry go round misfits, has-beens and never will be’s
All of the players who you listed fit those criteria, SenorFigs
A few remain but only out of desperation and being too frugal to sign better players
And I agree with your assessment of Cruz being a Polanco clone
YourDreamGM
Ok boys and girls. It’s time for dream to give you a std *stat of the day* Yasmani Grandal had a batting average of .321 between July 5th and August 6th.