One of the biggest differences between modern baseball and past versions of the game is declining starting pitcher usage. Many fans and people in the baseball world want to reverse this trend and the league is considering some rule changes that could help in that regard, per Jesse Rogers of ESPN. The most drastic change on the table is a rule that would dictate starting pitchers have to complete six innings before being removed from a game.
Such a rule would have to come with exceptions for injuries, blowouts or other extreme scenarios. Rogers reports that the league has discussed criteria where a pitcher could leave before competing six innings, such as throwing 100 pitches, allowing four or more earned runs or suffering an injury. The last one would require an IL stint in order to avoid shenanigans.
Some less-extreme suggestions have also been thrown around, such as a five-batter minimum for relievers, which could give managers more hesitation about making a move. There’s also the possibility of lowering the sizes of pitching staffs or the double-hook designated hitter system. The latter, which has been in consideration for a while, would see a team lose its DH once they remove their starting pitcher. It’s also suggested in the ESPN piece that draft pick compensation could be offered to the team with the most innings pitched by its starting staff.
It’s worth emphasizing that no changes are imminent and MLB has shown that it will experiment with potential changes in independent ball and/or the minors before bringing it to the majors. They have also tried out many changes that never made it to the big leagues, so even getting to the experimental stage is no guarantee that a new rule will eventually be implemented in the majors. If any momentum builds towards making this change a reality, teams would have plenty of warning so that they could alter how they target and develop pitchers for this new reality.
All that said, it’s not a huge secret that this shift has been happening over the years, with most baseball fans keenly aware of the trend lines when it comes to pitcher usage. Even putting aside things like bullpen games and openers, starters have just been throwing less. Just about any volume stat can illustrate this by looking at a recent season compared to one further in the past. Last year, there were five pitchers who hit the 200-inning plateau and five who threw more than one complete game. Just 20 years prior, in 2003, there were 44 hurlers who got to 200 innings and 43 who pitched at least two complete games. Go back another 20 years to 1983 and those numbers are 50 and 82.
This is due to various factors, including the fact that pitchers are less effective a third time through the order. This year, for example, hitters are slashing .238/.311/.388 the first time they see a pitcher. That jumps to .250/.311/.416 the second time and .263/.327/.437 the third time through. Bringing in a high-octane reliever is simply just a better strategy than letting the starter stay out there. This has led to the pejorative term “five-and-dive” to describe modern pitchers only concerned with throwing five innings, compared to old school pitchers who aimed to go a full nine.
Batters and teams are also more focused on power these days. Last year, there were only ten players who qualified for the batting title but finished with less than ten home runs. In 2003, there were 30 such players. In 1983, there were 46. That makes it harder for a pitch-to-contact strategy to yield positive results.
It has also been learned that a pitcher has little control over what happens once a ball is put in play, so teams have been focusing more on strikeouts. The Athletic recently ran a five-part series looking pitchers emphasizing punchouts as opposed to pitch-to-contact strategies. This has led pitchers and teams to look to maximize velocity and spin, which is thought to have had an impact on the abundance of significant injuries and surgeries for pitchers these days.
The hope is that all or many of these factors could be mitigated by the six-inning minimum. Theoretically, a pitcher would have to dial back on velocity a bit in an attempt to stay in the game longer, going back to the old school focus on getting contact with fewer strikeouts.
Along with the pitch clock and the rules to incentivize base stealing, the league is hoping for a more action-oriented game and better entertainment product. It’s also hoped that this will lead to fewer pitchers undergoing Tommy John surgery or other significant operations that require lengthy rehabilitation periods.
Whether it’s possible to actually succeed in this mission and whether this is the best way to go about it is a something that can, and surely will, be debated at length. Many fans despise the constant tinkering that has gone on during the era of commissioner Rob Manfred, while those who yearn for the prominence of the starting pitcher to return would likely be more excited about these potential developments.
Laseball Biker
“How else can we ruin the game?”
Fenway 1
Cue the Chi sox signing Lyles and Gibson for a free draft pick if that happened
Buckner
ya know, I was just thinking, how can we create MORE starting pitcher injuries?
deweybelongsinthehall
Force teams to develop pitchers throwing more innings by agreeing with the PA that in two years, the maximum number of pitchers on a roster is 11 or 12 on double-dip days. Give players time to adjust their training and go from there. The other options mentioned are just stupid.
Pads Fans
So a full generation? Have to start with kids in Little League. Velocity is no longer important and we won’t choose based on it, just on stamina. Then the same in travel squad ball, high school, college, the draft. Its not something that is going to happen overnight or even in the next decade.
Fever Pitch Guy
Buckner – Look at the number of pitcher injuries during the first 110 years of MLB, then look at 2010-2024.
Logic would dictate going back to the old school pitcher management would result in LESS injuries, not more.
Pads Fans
Unfortunately you are just looking at IL visits, not actual injuries. MLB officially started trips to the IL, called the DL then, in 1966. But just looking at that list doesn’t tell the true story because in the 1960s, 1970s, and even 1980s before TJ surgery started to become commonplace, when a pitcher had a shoulder injury or an elbow injury their career was just over.
We get a much better indication by looking at the average career length for pitchers. From players that have been in MLB from 2010-2024 its 5.8 years, more than 2 years longer than in the 1960s and 1970s when it was 3.7 years.
JackStrawb
@Pads Fans Great comment. Looking back at careers you see a ton of pitchers during the modern era of the 20th century getting destroyed while in the minors as they tried to pitch 200 inning seasons. The used car lots of the midwest were studded with guys who blew out their arms in AA and never saw the majors.
As for the legendary four man rotation where each starter threw 37-41 starts and 240-270 innings, that was extremely rare. Some of the all time great teams had one pitcher at 200-plus innings. The 1939 Yanks had only Ruffing w/ 200+ innings, and no one with more than 28 starts. 1956 Yanks topped out at 30 and 31 starts for their front two. 1975 Reds? Only two pitchers, Nolan and Billinham, started more than 26 games.
Most of what we think we know about baseball is actually myth and distortion.
If they want to seriously tinker, deaden the ball. Make pitching to weaker contact rewarding. Make HR far less frequent.
all in the suit that you wear
This is sort of annoying. It will get rid of keeping a pitcher returning from injury on a pitch count and ramping them up to 100 pitches and it will get rid of openers. Other than that, not much will change I think. If a starter is doing good he will throw about 100 pitches and can then come out whenever that is. If a starter gets hurt or gets lit up he can come out.
Sadface
Never liked the opener anyway, but it should be allowed. Why does the Commissioner insist on making changes? Game times are already down. Extra inning games too. Why screw with how managers handle their pitching staff? Just for more offense? And does not the removing the starter and DH at the same time also hurt the offense?
bucsfan0004
Relax everyone…. its an ESPN article/space filler put out on a slow sports day
titanic struggle
Thanks… that puts it in a whole different perspective..
Very Barry
Greed is real. Nothing matters except producing more $$$$. Absolutely disgusting!! Buy Rawlings and start changing the balls. Some go out of the park easy. Some don’t. All that matters is “entertainment”. I guess “competition” or at least real competition is just out the window.
deweybelongsinthehall
Has there been a study on the distance balls are traveling today? Most relate it to the size and strength of the players while I have been wondering about the bat changing from ash to maple but now I’m thinking the ball is the main reason. Aaron Judge hit a ball at Fenway where I had never seen before. Yes, he’s amazingly big and strong but Jim Rice, Mo Vaughn, Sam Horn never came close (just to name a few past Six hitters who could hit it a mile).
Fever Pitch Guy
Dewey – Maybe you’re not a red seat believer, but I’m surprised you never saw Jim Ed’s homerun at the top of the Fenway centerfield flag pole.
heraldnews.com/story/sports/college/2015/07/23/197…
User 4245925809
Geniuses thinking abut this change are the exact type(s) which brought about useless changes already and are mind set at destroying what’s left of the game. Like why not make it anything over 95mph is an automatic ball and take every stinking analytics department, pile up everything the teams have with regards to them and have a massive weanie roast with all the rubbish it’s contributed to destroying the core of the game?
every time we see something come out from the commish’s office as a so called “fix” to a problem in the game, it nearly always skips over the #1 problem, which is the inability to actually *FIRE* awful umpires.
Want to fix something? Start there 1st.
Samuel
johnsilver;
Batter is out after the 3rd foul ball with 2 strikes.
Solves a lot of problems…..
o Length of games.
o Pitchers throwing harder and harder with more and more spin trying to get Strike 3 while destroying parts of their body as well as their careers.
o More batted balls being put in play (which fans want).
Add on….
The UnderCROWNd
Socialism meets MLB…
Phantom Dreamer
You can’t even define socialism
Kayrall
YoU cAnT eVeN dEfInE sOcIaLiSm
Pads Fans
“Owned or regulated by the community as a whole”
Like public schools, libraries, fire departments, police departments, military, infrastructure like dams, water lines, and even roads.
cman
Some of those are owned by private entities though, just being 100% accurate.
Pads Fans
Public schools. public libraries, public fire departments, public police departments (as in 100% of them), there is no private military, dams are all public utilities, as are water districts that build and control water utilities, public roads. Yes, there are privately owned toll roads, but according to the DOT 99.83% of miles driven in the US are on publicly funded roads and highways.
case
meets public funding for stadiums…
carlos15
Manfred is the worst thing ever to happen to MLB, it will never recover.
Fever Pitch Guy
Carlos – Manfred is just a puppet of the owners, it’s been that way since Vincent was forced out.
GASoxFan
They’re overcomplicating things going down that road.
Make it easier with a three step plan:
1) The three batter rule is GONE.
2) Teams are allowed three pitching changes per nine inning game. That’s your starter, plus THREE changes for alternative pitchers. If you want to twist my arm, we can say teams can replace pitchers in extra inning games during odd-numbered innings only regardless of prior moves – 11, 13, 15 so on, and that’s if you’re going to invoke extra inning injury risk. However, I’d wonder if you really wanted to win that extra inning game and had to go with a long reliever or burn your next day starter, that’d be more exciting and strategy inducing when making your last substitution.
3) A pitcher removed for injury does NOT count as one of the three allotted changes, BUT, removing a pitcher for such reasons requires a 15 day IL placement or will result in a 15-day suspension with pay where the team cannot replace the player on the roster.
That’s it. You want to burn an arm on one batter? OK. You want to lift a starter in the 3rd, fine, better have a long relief guy in mind. You want to burn your next day’s starter due to the available arms? Have at it.
Then you get more strategy in the management of the staff.
case
Sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through just to help grandpa avoid his fear of change.
titanic struggle
Said the liberal GenXer from his Mama’s basement..
case
Mused the incel during his break at Best Buy.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – The easiest and cleanest change would be 10-pitcher roster limits. It would resolve several issues all at once.
GASoxFan
Fever – there’s one problem, the MLBPA.
I don’t think roster limits are something that would pass muster and not lead to a worse CBA experience than last time, BUT, changing what switches you can make within a game would likely fall under the commissioners unilateral authority.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – As long as the active roster remains at 26, the union wouldn’t have a problem with it. In fact it would boost the average salaries of pitchers because starters would go longer (thus more valuable) and teams wouldn’t be able to carry 3 minimum-salary scrap heap pitchers anymore.
From an entertainment perspective there would be better hitters and base stealers on the bench. It’s a win-win.
GASoxFan
I’m not so sure Fever. Problem is you’re putting a TON of relievers out of work, while just making space for more pinch runners and minimum salary position filler.
Think about it. 30 clubs, losing 3 pitchers each, thats 90 guys. And you can’t say let em ride the AAA shuttle because the mlbpa won’t like the limitations on service time it creates. There’s been tons of incentives and rule tweaking to cut down on guys being sent back and forth to the minors
Remember, there’s only 780 26-man roster slots. Those 90 votes carry almost 12% of the voting membership
Pads Fans
It would lead to more injuries which would lead to LOWER salaries. Why do you think that the owners are proposing this?
seth3120
How is this even a real discussion. The game has changed pitchers throw harder, managers are trying to manage their workload for 162 game season, it’s a game of specialists managers will bring in a reliever with good results in key situations early in games when it’s critical, managers don’t like destroying pitchers confidence letting them get shelled when they clearly don’t have their best stuff, some pitchers are on a pitch count building up from injury or being stretched out to move from the bullpen to the rotation, etc I could go on and on. Is it so important this part of the game we go old school on but we have time clocks and guys starting on second base in extra innings? This would be a logistical nightmare. This is so ridiculous it feels like fake news
Fever Pitch Guy
Biker – It’s a great article, you really should read it.
Most of these proposed rule changes are to combat teams already ruining the game by using 6+ pitchers in many games and encouraging pitchers to overthrow during shorter appearances.
Criticize the existing problem, not the potential solution.
Pads Fans
That assumes its a problem and many, maybe even most fans, don’t think its a problem.
I want to see the best possible baseball being played for my massive amount of money spent to go to a game or watch it on TV and if that means bringing in a new pitcher after 5 innings and the reliever only pitching to 3 batters then so be it. That is not “ruining the game”. It is providing fans with the best possible version of baseball.
The games are back to the same length as they were in the 1980s, so no one can complain about them being too long.
What Manfraud and the owners want is more offense. Guess what? The more offense, the longer the game, and the more NEED for pitching changes.
You know what I DON’T want to see? What I WON’T pay for? 162 games that are all 14-15-16 runs scored because the manager of the Padres was forced to leave a starting pitcher in to get blown the F-up when he is having a bad game and can only use 3 relievers in a game.. That is just stupid.
Give me GOOD baseball with more pitchers any time and twice on Sunday.
ffrhb14Sox
Put fake runners on base? Mess up rules at 2nd base and home plate? Train kids to max velocity over actually pitching and see injuries go up while pitchers pitch far less? Wait all of those have diminished MLB already.
CardsFan57
This is a bad idea.
avenger65
CardsFan: Absolutely. Manfred should keep his big nose out of a manager’s ability to manage his pitching staff. However, I do like the idea of getting rid of the “Ohtani Rule.” Once Ohtani is pulled from the game as a SP he shouldn’t be able to continue as the DH. Changing the rule for one guy is ridiculous.
Steinbrenner2728
We should get rid of the “Pat Venditte Rule” too. Having rules for one guy is ridiculous.
Roll
@steinbrenner
there needs to be a rule for it … did you see what happened the first time he faced a switch hitter. Took forever to start the at bat as they kept going back and forth for 5-10 mins. I think they should flip a coin on who decides first to make it fair.
bmp010
The nose knows.
Fever Pitch Guy
Avenger- How is that any different from any other allowable position change?
avenger65
Once a player is taken out,the can’t come back in. Simple as that. This isn’t high school.
titanic struggle
This may be the only time I’ve ever agreed with a twigs and Sparrows fan… btw, the Reds said hi..
Joe says...
Losing the DH isn’t the worst idea. It puts more strategy back in the managers hands.
Informed Sportsball Discussion
The Dodgers would ask for their money back on Ohtani. I don’t think that genie is ever going anywhere now that he resides in both leagues.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
This rule would eliminate the full time DH, ohtani and ozuna and yordan would have to completely change
Your favorite players were David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez? Well too bad that type of player is destroyed with this rule
Dumpster Divin Theo
Less Ortiz tastes great
Dumpster Divin Theo
It is both ! it is both! It is both.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Less taste! Tastes great!
horaceallen
The DH wouldn’t go away, you would lose the DH if your starter went less than 6.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Would you want to pay 70 million a year for 6 innings of ohtani in at least half of the games?
DodgersBro
STNMF
Dodgers are not giving Ohtani $70 million in ANY season
They ARE paying $46 million for him
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Even so…
Roll
IMO i actually liked watching degrom and bumgarner and other hitting capable pitchers swing but they took that away and that effected a lot more than one person for one season. Ohtani can learn to play first or outfield for his 70M if its that important. Are you saying the entirety of MLB revolves around one player and they need to conform the game to him? How about they just let him bat in all 9 spots or he is allowed to use a tee to bat off of?
I also like the added strategy to the game where you have to decide whether to keep a dominant starter in the game when your at bat in a tied game which comes up way more often than ohtani 1 yr only batting for 6 innings at a d. Along with having to decide to keep 2 defensive guys or one super sub and a big bat to pinch hit.
Zonedeads
Nothing you said was intelligent and is just a waste a space.
cman
Deferred money, it still averages out to 70 million a season when you include. So puh-TAY-toh, puh-TAH-toh.
DodgersBro
cman
“Deferred money, it still averages out to 70 million a season when you include.”
No.
The Dodgers pay Ohtani $2 million a year.
They put $44 million into an interest bearing account.
They are doing that for 10 years
That averages out to $46 million a year
After that they are giving Ohtani $68 million a year for the next 10 years.
So, they are giving him $700 million over 20 years. That averages out to $35 million a year.
It does not average out to $70 million a season.
Is it math or logic you are so bad at?
cbraves
And aren’t there enough injuries as it is? Let the game evolve on it’s own and quit forcing it to change. F Rob Manfred.
avenger65
cbraves: Agree.
hiflew
There are more starting pitcher injuries now than there ever was in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Perhaps it is time to rethink the whole pitch count idea and just let these guys do what they are being paid way too much money to do.
cbraves
Think about the average fastball velocity and spin rates on off speed pitches during that era. So much more torque on elbows in today’s game and you can’t just tell a pitcher to put less spin on sliders and curve balls. You could maybe hold back a little on your fastball, but doing so would decrease command.
hiflew
It wasn’t measured, so there is no way to compare. All the evidence is just anecdotal. They didn’t have a radar gun measuring every single pitch.
That being said, I would match up Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, or JR Richard with any modern pitcher’s fastball.
seamaholic 2
The whole idea is to prevent injuries
cbraves
@seamaholic 2 So to keep pitchers from getting injured you force them to pitch MORE!?!? These players have been taught to pitch the way they have. That is baseball today. Just the way it is.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Rule Change: first three innings pitchers must pitch underhand
Pads Fans
Or are mandated to throw at least 50% eephus pitches.
spidertac
When you have more exceptions than rules you have a bad rule.
DarkSide830
lol sure
DolphLundgren
Let the game evolve, quit trying to be Rob Manfred-Hammond, curator of Jurassic BallPark.
Informed Sportsball Discussion
The league: “We want more action, more hits, more stolen bases.”
Also the league: “We want starting pitchers to go deeper into games.”
K.
avenger65
Informed: And I’m delighted to see Manfred’s banning of the shift backfiring. I don’t have any statistics, but it seems like games are getting a little longer. And his rule changes to get more offense has also failed, which has upset him. Manfred should run a little league organization and force his idiotic rules on that level. Parents will run him out of the game.
deweybelongsinthehall
Banning the shift just allows the batters to continue to over swing instead of learning how to develop into a better hitter. The great ones were never concerned about shifting.
YankeesBleacherCreature
“We want all y’all to go less velo and less spin-ny. Stay healthy. These pitcher insurance premiums are too damn high for my bosses. We want less MLB jobs, not more.”
Judd_Skinner
Rob Manfried is the worse thing that has ever happened to baseball
cman
He’s just bored. MLB is waiting to expand again and can not do so until the Okland A’s move to Vegas and Tampa has a new stadium, then they will put a team in Nashville and that will distract him.
aragon
Manfraud hates. the game he could not play in.
davengmusic
I love that you turned a single statement into two. I want Morgan freeman to read this out loud
Brew88
If Morgan’s not available, let’s call James Earl Jones
horaceallen
This will be unpopular here, but I think the idea has some merit. A nice possible byproduct is to force organizations and lower levels to focus on command instead of velocity, thereby hopefully reducing injuries as well.
Halo11Fan
People knee jerk without putting five seconds of thought into such things.
wagner13
Why makes our reactions knee jerk, and your support for such a rule so “well thought out”?
Halo11Fan
Why is it bad?
Starting pitchers use to pitch. Last year 44 pitchers qualified for the ERA title, in 1980, 89 qualified.
I’ve been following this game for 60+ years. It was a better game, I love the bean counters, but the game between the lines was a better game before the bean counters took over.
Moves that limit the bean counters impact and places more of the impact back onto the players is a good thing.
wagner13
Why limit the freedom of teams to manage players the way they feel is most conducive to success?
If throwing 80+ pitches and maximizing your starter leads to wins, teams will do it. Forcing all clubs to adopt a certain approach leads to uniformity and in my opinion, makes the game less interesting by reducing variability
Halo11Fan
Because the bean counters don’t care about the game, they care about winning. The bean counters make moves, and baseball makes counter moves to keep baseball, baseball.
I don’t like the ghost runner, but most of these counter moves make baseball a better game.
But I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, it’s just the knee jerk disagreement I have an issue with.
deweybelongsinthehall
I said it above. Agree with the union on limiting the staff size and force all to adjust. Get rid of the ghost runner rule, pizza box bases, oversized protection and analyze the ball and bat. Are there more injuries since MLB bought Rawlings and should the league go back to ash bats?
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
It makes sense but experienced guys in baseball have said that you can’t revert the evolution of the pitcher back to the 90s, because if they didn’t throw max effort nowadays especially with traject then they get hit
ButCanHePitch
Isn’t that more a product of them not knowing how to pitch, then? I mean look at the guys that are flamethrowers and have a huge bb%. It pisses fans off when they see that. Plus, I really do believe that increase of TJS is because they’re trying to throw everything they have behind their pitch. Their arm says it can throw 93, but they’re saying I’m gonna make you throw 97.
Landini
The trouble is the hardest pitch to hit is a 95+ fastball at the top of the zone. Take that pitch away and substitute better command pitchers will suffer.
d-rock2322
Can baseball just be baseball? What in the world is the sport we all love being turned into?
Gwynning
I had a thought experiment and envisioned “10 more minutes” with my grandpa. I was picturing myself trying to explain the “new” game and the bewilderment displayed on his face.
hiflew
My grandpa is 88 and still around and we watch baseball together every night and I STILL have trouble explaining “new” baseball to him.
Of course I have trouble myself accepting taking a starter out in the middle of a strong game and watching a reliever give up the game shortly thereafter. These guys are relievers because they weren’t good enough to be starters. Not all, but about 99% of them.
Gwynning
Well, we might have different perspectives since I like the Padre’s pen and I know you’re a Rockie fan, hiflew. Ha
Nice to hear of your Gramps doing well brah, keep making strong memories! Aloha braddha
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
My grandpa never watched a ton of baseball but was adamant that Bruce bochy was the only mariners all star in 1976…
There was a guy named Bruce bochty that played for the M’s but he was like “yeah the giants manager”
66TheNumberOfTheBest
TTO-ball.
manfraud
TJ surgeries soaring? Let’s make this ridiculous rule change and see how high those numbers can go!
ohyeadam
TJ surgeries are soaring at the same time pitchers are throwing fewer and fewer innings. So it’s probably not the innings that are the problem
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
It’s not like pitchers will change their game back to the 90s! They are still throwing 100 no matter what and blowing their arm out
I can’t wait to see entire rotations be on the injured list, they should also expand the IL with this rule
SanchezRevival
Why not leave the game alone and instead implement a point system to incentive the desired change? Something like how the NHL awards wins, losses, and points could be considered. While it might not have immediate or drastic impacts, it may, over time, incentive change and come into play for things like tie breakers/home field advantage come playoff time.
avenger65
We’re looking for less rule changes, not more.
SanchezRevival
Agreed, hence my suggestion to keep the game as is and only allocate points for desired outcomes.
terry g
Interesting ideas to banner around the table but way too many factors here to take seriously. I can see a longer list of exceptions than those listed above.
Halo11Fan
A starting pitcher should be able to throw 80 pitches or five runs allowed….for example.
That would eliminate bullpen games and the opener. There is nothing wrong with such a rule.
DodgersBro
Halo
Counterpoint
There’s nothing wrong with openers or bullpen games
YankeesBleacherCreature
Agreed. If you’ve got an ace pitcher coming back from injury scheduled for 4 innings or 75 pitchers, there goes that idea. He’ll be pitching in AAA for a wasted outing.
This one belongs to the Reds
Yes, the bullpen games and the opener are ridiculous.
Ketch
What’s next? Forcing runners to go from first to third on a single? Even an infield one?
Very Barry
If the count gets to 3-0 …. The batter must swing at the next pitch regardless of where it is thrown.
Gwynning
But only in Day Games, c’mon Barry keep up.
clifft
We don’t need that one because the umpire likes to call a strike automatically when the count is 3-0. It’s amazing how the strike zone changes with umpires, but it consistently does on 3-0 pitches.
Brew’88
New rules for 2025. A pitcher cannot throw two fastballs in a row for balls without losing one article of clothing. If the pitcher wears more than 12 articles of clothing, they can’t throw fastballs at all. If a pitcher throws two consecutive breaking balls for strikes, then the batter must take off an article of clothing and put it on backwards. Again the 12 articles apply. But there’s more. If a breaking ball is thrown for a ball but still entices a swing and miss, all baserunners must return to their bases and cannot take a lead on the next 3 pitches – they must stand on the base a la tee-ball league. But if a breaking ball thrown for a strike is fouled off, and this happens on two consecutive pitches, then both the 1st base and 3rd base coaches must put on all of the discarded articles of clothing that have accumulated during the game, unless the temperature is over 95 F. Finally, Crowd sizes will be determined using Artificial Intelligence designed and implemented by a committee comprised of ball boys and girls and club owners.
getrealgone2
What a bozo.
wagner13
Lol good luck trying to build starting pitchers back up from injury.
Oh no, baseball managers are using basic logic and taking starters out of games when they’re less effective? We can’t have that…
I get that MLB is entertainment at the end of the day, but as a fan of the game itself, I appreciate managers having the freedom to strategize and be creative in their approach. These draconian rules run completely counter to that
swissvale
I would agree but very few managers even set the lineup anymore
DodgersBro
Not in favor of this at all
I love strategic pitcher usage. Give me openers, bullpen games, piggybackers, etc
I find it makes the game more interesting, not less
Halo11Fan
That’s a fair take, but I find it less interesting.
I wouldn’t mind minimums on starting pitchers. I put forth 80 pitches or 5 runs.
I would wager in the late 70s, almost no teams had starters yanked before 80 pitches or five runs.
all in the suit that you wear
I agree that 80 pitches is better than 100 for a minimum.
Sharks
Back when I went to Giants games frequently, there was a definate buzz in the air on game days with Lincecum vs Kershaw or other great pitching matchups. Less exciting when John Brebbia was listed as the starter.
DodgersBro
Sharks
Ok?
Do you think that has changed?
Teams aren’t using openers or bullpen games when their aces are pitching
losrojos
So they want to test it out on minor league players, most of whom are adjusting to throwing 5 days a week, not used to throwing 6 innings or are getting stretched into starters roles by their teams? Brilliant plan.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Juiced ball 2019 was actually fun
cbraves
I wish it was back. I love the home runs no matter how many we see.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Juice Newton
showmebb
I’m a fan of the pitch clock and the rules which led to the increase in stolen bases so I’m open to more rule changes. This new 6 inning rule seems a step too far but it would eliminate the opener/bullpen games which I hate.
texgal01
This is not a good idea. Guess MLB wants to blow the game up. If a starter is having issues they could have an ailment or just does not have it. I think should be management that decides how long a pitcher goes. Starter most often go the amount to qualify to possibly have the win. If their team is leading. Young pitchers this could be bad for as well. If have a great pitcher in control and more or perhaps has a no hitter going they want to stay in. Sometimes pitchers throw too many pitches. Even if coming off injury and pitching.
Then the bullpen forcing them to face more hitters before a change. Making a pitcher go 2 innings nearly out of bullpen. I know with my team many get upset because a starter has gone too long and is losing the game. Or could be letting game get away or such. Yes we all want the starter to go 6 to 7 innings. But sometimes cannot go that long. Just totally crazy
stgpd
This is absurd. You can’t turn back the clock. How about starters can’t throw over 90 MPH so they last longer? No Rob you can’t make everybody happy. Let the game alone. But if you want to fix something how about getting rid of the automatic runner on second in extras. At least delay it til the 12th
This one belongs to the Reds
Take the radar gun readings off the scoreboard. That’s a good start.
Hitters will tell you more than a pitch count when a guy is done.
The combination of the two of when pitcher injuries began increasing.
Baseball_dude
The day that this man leaves MLB will be the best “MLB rule change” in the history of baseball.. I can’t stand him
Sharks
Have to meet one of three requirements before being pulled.
– 5 innings
– 75 pitches
– 3 or more runs
Until that happens starter must stay in the game. If pulled early starter must go on IL.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
AND OR a local early dinner reservation OR an early golf tee time the next morning
Other Good Ideas
It should be mandatory that each team have a minimum of 3 pitchers who throw a knuckleball. and 3 pitchers who are ambidextrous.
This IS OF Course The ONLY Sensible Way forward for “the Good of the Game”
Good Grief Charlie Brown?
Redstitch108* 2
I have a better idea. Expel and ban all “Ivy League” baseball executives. Their analytical bean-counting ways has ruined the game. I propose all teams be run only by former players from the ground up.
Gwynning
Let’s start a new League!?
YankeesBleacherCreature
No Tech League. Players travel by horse and buggy. Only day games. Manual scoreboard. Oh wait, that’s the A’s soon!
This one belongs to the Reds
Robby the robot reminds me of the manager who thinks something should be done but has no clue what that should be.
Redstitch108* 2
If you want to limit all the long balls and have it more of a contact game, then ban all that armor the hitters now wear. It is not a coincidence that since the introduction of all this “safety” gear, that the hitting game has dramatically changed. As a pitcher, I can see how the hitters dig in without fear and crowd the plate allowing for deeper balls in the zone to be hit with more regularity.
YankeesBleacherCreature
2024’s MLB average slash line is .244/.313/.401. Each team averages 1.13 HR/Game and 4.44 Runs/Game.
1994’s is .270/.339/.424. Each team averages 1.04 HR/Game and 4.92 Runs/Game.
From a pitchers’ standpoint today, batters should wear even more gear.
Ronk325
Pitching injuries are at an all time high but sure let’s make pitchers throw more than they have to for no apparent reason
Sharks
Regardless of what all the advanced stat dorks think is fun, the common fan of baseball is not in favor of a reliever starting the game. No chance of something cool like a no hitter or 20 strikeout game. Seven pitching changes later its just not enjoyable baseball to watch or root for.
formerlyz
This commissioner has been on a mission to kill baseball since the moment he was announced
Everything is content nowadays anyways.
C Yards Jeff
MLB and the powers that run it better be careful.
Sitting fat and happy for a long time now. Keep these shannigans up and competition will show up. If it can happen in professional golf, it can happen in professional baseball.
YankeesBleacherCreature
The only thing holding back Japan is its limited geography. Love him or hate him, Manfred works for the owners so he’s only the messenger.
dlj0527
Get rid of the opener for one thing should be a rule or stop giving him a GS and call it a GO for Game Opener.
It’s the hitters fault so limit at bat to 6 pitches and rule batter out after 6th pitch unless he has gotten on base by the 6th pitch but then reward next batter with 2-0 count unless 3rd out was made.
Halo11Fan
It’s always good to combat an idea with absurdity.
Gwynning
I think we found Manfred’s account, Halo!
letitbelowenstein
I’m still having trouble digesting the idiotic ghost runner and pizza box bases. I can’t deal with this right now.
BPax
Ok, here’s the best answer. Pitchers must go 6 innings. But after a 3-0 count, a batter may request to hit off a T like in T-Ball. Or, at 2-0, a batter may request a “coach pitch” as in early Little League. Each inning starts with a runner on second. This makes for more entertainment! Now, once the pitcher goes 6 innings or 100 pitches, they then become the ghost runners at second base. If a team finds itself down by 6 or more runs, then they start each offensive inning with the bases loaded with ghost runners. This is super entertaining! Bunting is outlawed (not entertaining) and sac flies count as 1/2 a run, unless it’s after the 8th inning in a tie game. Next, if the actual game time passes 2 3/4 hours, then each pitch counts thusly: One strike, you’re out. One ball, take your base. Second foul ball, you’re out. Exceptions are as follows……………………………..
Someone once said a camel is a horse designed by a committee.
Or possibly by Rob Manford.
DodgersBro
BP
“Someone once said a camel is a horse designed by a committee.”
Put a horse in the desert and you’ll see how much more well “designed” the camel is
BPax
America went through the desert on a horse. They just didn’t remember its name.
MooseBreathMints
Is this idea for real? Forcing a s.p. to go 6 innings is flat out dumb. This is NOT baseball.
Multi Position Eligibility
And the next rule is that they get rid of managers and Manfred gets to make the lineup cards and any in game changes..
LernersWallet
I just want to say I’m not a fan of managers Pulling starting pitchers in the middle of a no-hitter or perfect game bid. It’s happened more the past few seasons than I can remember.
That being said with pitchers and UCL injury’s seemingly becoming more rampant I don’t like the idea of requiring a minimum innings pitched or any other minimum workload requirement for starting pitchers.
It should be up to the head coach and medical staff. That’s it. MLB may not like it. I may not always like it. But I think the way it’s set up now is appropriate for where the game is at.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
With so many pitchers injured, the MLB want to find a way to make them pitch more ? Surely this is a joke ?
Bart
Its not the number of pitches thrown, its the intensity and effort each pitch thrown at 100% effort. It puts enormous stress on the elbow. If pitchers tried to place the pitch better and set the hitter up they can succeed without maximum effort pitches.
CO Guardening
Not funny Manfred. Stop interfering with teams ability to strategize in different ways.
snyder1962
Stop messing with baseball,Manfred!
Hmmm 2
This is utterly dumb. Baseball really needs a new commissioner.
Dotnet22
To quote “Major League”, How about a series of fines for good play? Maybe a $30,000 bonus for the guy named Least Valuable Player?
TigersLoveCinnamon
So a team doesn’t have 5 healthy starters, are they abolishing the opener? Do they go to a 4 man rotation, what if two are injured and nobody in the minors? There’s way too many nuances to this. Also trying this rule in the minors is an awful idea, some teams actually want to develop starters by working on pitches. That goes out the window with this
nosake
It’s getting harder to consider MLB as anything less than barbaric. Policing pitchers stepping off the mound between innings is testament to what’s important. The article suggests greater restrictions on pitchers contributes to their injuries. You think? If MLB pre-tacking balls and an overall relaxing of rule standards is on the table, everyone wins. Otherwise, there’s not much point in following the league anymore.
Before I get off the soapbox, change the rule about stepping on 1st base as opposed to crossing the plane to greatly reduce leg injuries to batters.
terrymesmer
The pitch clock seems to be a success. Pitchless IBB was a good move. But I do not like how more and more of in-game strategy is being decided in New York by the league office rather than by the players and managers: number of times a pitcher can throw to a base in a plate appearance, number of batters a pitcher must face, banning the shift, and now…maybe…this crap.
highflyballintorightfield
I hate the pitch clock, and robo-umps, and the designated hitter for that matter. But I will reluctantly support rules to prevent players, umpires, managers, and front offices from ruining the game, and would give this one a fair hearing. Two implications I can think of–a return of the pitched 4-pitch walk to run up pitch count, and yet another advantage to deep pocketed teams who can sign more journeyman starters to hefty minor league salaries for depth (Go Dodgers!).
I Believe We Can Win
The double hook one would be interesting. After 6 innings both teams lose their DH spot. Definitely would create more of a chess game and bring back more of the thrill of a pitch hitter for the pitcher.
Heels On The Field
“double-hook designated hitter system”
YES!
Anything that helps get rid of the DH I’m enthusiastic about.
Joe says...
“Don’t change baseball. It’s perfect just like it is.” Baseball fans after literally every rule change ever.
YankeesBleacherCreature
“Enough is enough! I’m ghost on baseball like the runners in extras!” “Honey, don’t forget the cable bill this month.”
Ignacious
Pitchers can’t last more than 5 innings because hitters are bigger and stronger; there are no longer any light-hitting shortstops, 2B or CF; there is a DH and teams have plenty of data to figure out pitchers’ tendencies so, of course, blame the pitchers and force them to pitch more. How about dealing with the problem and putting the onus on how hitting has grown. How about putting a limit on the size and weight of bats or forcing teams to have a couple light hitters in every lineup or make pitchers hit again or ban strength training. All ridiculous ideas because people watch games to see action and action means hitting not great pitching so, instead, let’s blow out more pitchers’ arms so we’ll have worse pitching and there’ll be more hitting.
ffrhb14Sox
Hitters are bigger and stronger and hit less often. Pitchers should actually have more success in today’s game because they have a higher likelihood of getting outs compared to past generations.
Zippy the Pinhead
So Manfred wants to float ideas. That’s actually okay. As long as they don’t get haphazardly implemented, or they get tested in MiLB first, I’m okay with that.
AHH-Rox
I could see some incentives at the margins, since endless pitching changes are bad for the fan experience. Like award an extra draft pick to the 5 teams whose starters pitch the most innings, or who make the fewest pitching changes, or maybe the fewest mid-inning pitching changes since those really slow down the game.
Gotta admit I like the 3-batter minimum and the limit on mound visits. It was excruciating in the old days when Yankees vs Red Sox games would be 4 hours because Varitek and Posada would go out to the mound several times every inning.
Cam
Why? Just to please a few people who want to see a guy throwing 85mph for 9 innings?
its_happening
Translation: we’ve tried everything to boost offense and this is one way to increasing scoring. We also want pitchers to get hurt.
The commissioners office and the owners that put him there seem hellbent on injecting position player safety and boost offensive production. Pitchers be damned, and the injuries will continue to pile up along with the absurd rule changes that will not stop either.
AngelsFan1968
Why not not just eliminate pitchers all together, just setup a tee or a pitching machine. No more pitcher injuries, or worrying about 3rd time through the order. Then with this, you’d set a maximum number of home runs in an inning, just like they do in beer softball leagues.
spick55a
Raise the mound!!
its_happening
Agreed.
gcg27
This would be idiotic and If anyone signs off on this everyone should revolt
JSC Cubbs
The pessimist in me can see this is a Manfred power play to kill the ability for pitchers to get big money contracts.
Relievers will pitch less innings, since there’ll be less to cover, so they are less valuable.
Any injury history concern will be magnified and a reason to not give out a big dollar contract.
No older pitcher should get a longer deal, because teams aren’t sure they’ll be able to pitch 100+ pitches effectively.
This is an attack on players, and an attempt to reduce their take, and give more to the owners and commissioners.
its_happening
Also an attack on tenure. Less pitchers will reach pension. There has to be a stat somewhere.
shyzer
This is fantastic! The sport needs 10x more Tommy John surgeries each year!
ffrhb14Sox
TJ is more common in today’s game already. All of the pitch counts and other safety measures aren’t working. Maybe teaching kids to pitch over max velocity is a better strategy.
krumbledkookie
Stop. JUST STOP ALREADY.
loumickeyjeter
Manfool continues to be MLB enemy #1
Roger Richardson
please leave the game alone.
dpsmith22
wow just wow. Manfred you are trash.
Poke56
Jesus. When is this clown leaving office?? What’s next 1 pitch per batter?
tuck 2
Literally the dumbest idea any sport has offered up so far. A rule that would literally take winning or losing out of the managers control.
drdback
This is an idiotic concept. Would result in more injuries earlier in the season and create more conflict on every MLB pitching staff.
MafiaBass
Legislating this would be monumentally stupid. Most hooks already meet one of these criteria.
The starting staff that pitches the most innings is already going to win the World Series. I think that’s enough compensation.
Joshy
Pretty sure my mariner staff will pitch the most innings, pretty sure they won’t win the world series unfortunately
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Its obvious the fans should select the commissioner.
titanic struggle
This is completely ASININE! This man is a meance to the game, and if he and his rules committee institute this rule, the players should walk off the job one minute after it’s announced!
JLinTexas
If they’re looking for more action at the games, here’s one for you: have each team adjust the height of their mound according to an “offense index”. Kind of equalize the offense among stadiums. Examples: Colorado has to raise their mound to give pitchers a fighting chance, and the Dodgers have to lower the mound some to help the hitters some. A lot of teams that can’t draw free agents now because of a home park’s reputation might be able to do better in that regard. More teams with a shot at the playoffs. As far as implementation goes, each stadium’s assigned height could be checked by the umps during each series, and those heights could be revisited on a yearly basis. Not to show my Texan, but what do y’all think? Stupid, crazy, brilliant, never gonna happen?
Benjamin101677
They are trying to take the game and make it quicker for fans that probably don’t go to games. All these rules now all the stuff ruining the games.
I don’t go to games like I did as you miss 2 inning getting over priced food. Than you route for a team all year they sit for a week and loose the feeling of the game and get knocked out by a wild card team.
Every year of the new format a wild card team has made the World Series was never supposed to be that
nunzio1749
nunzio1749 Sounds pretty idiotic to me
❤️ MuteButton
Well the pitch timers seems to be contributing to injuries, so why not have them pitch longer so they can get injured more? Ridiculous.
kodion
Everyone wants, or wants to be, unicorns.
As a result, whether individually or by team mandate, they train in some way all the time. Pitchers need to have actual off-days where they put their feet up, sit back, and relax, some of them, maybe, with a beer or two, or a massage and a long nap.
Wear-and-tear (Isn’t that term totally appropriate these days?!?) tends to be cumulative so the lack of true rest days might be the biggest factor in all of this
Dumpster Divin Theo
Kodion volunteering to be pitch puffer
kodion
Don’t know what you mean but, based on your usual contributions, I am sure it is meaningless
UWPSUPERFAN77
Wow! read most of the comments. Generally, the less rules the better in all games.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Well, Mr.Manfred, it is true……If.you want to MAKE.BASEBALL MORE EXCITING FOR YOUR MINDSET…..
??????
HEY, LET’S DITCH THE BATS
LET’S DITCH THE BALLS…..
LET’S GIVE THEM ALL SWORDS
AND.JUST MAKE.IT A FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!!!
MR.MANFRED..
THAT IS MORE EXCITING FOR.YOU AND I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE IT WILL GET BETTER TV RATINGS……
SINCE.THAT IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT….
Dumpster Divin Theo
Think you’re overreacting. A little
FOmeOLS
I think grenades instead of baseballs would be exciting.
And insure a lot of promotions from the minors, too!
brood550
Terrible rule to even consider. At the rate the league is going the only strategy that will be left is who’s pitching the 7th, maybe the 8th, and what is the batting order.
They shorten the time between pitches, result more injuries and fewer pitches being thrown by pitchers. MLB response: “We need starters to go deeper and risk more injury than what we’ve already increased the risk too.” Apparently MLB is hoping to have enough injuries they get some “everyman” working a normal 9-5 to make a team. I’m not going to watch games when all aces are on the shelf with TJ surgery.
Dumpster Divin Theo
All swell ideas. Lets do it and speed up the game, first team leading after an hour. As for starting pitchers, I’d go with snipers, a moat or electric fence dog collar. Make it like the hunger games. Leave the pitching island at your own peril.
dano62
If you’re serious about helping the pitcher, first thing is to raise the mound back to pre-70s height. Then make every outfield HR wall at least 400’ (and more in most cases). Then expand the strike zone. You could deaden the ball too. All these changes would be unpopular to most owners & a lot of fans (chicks dig the longball theory) but would accomplish what they want here without risking many more injuries like stupid ideas being tossed around.
FOmeOLS
Many…”MOST fans despise the constant tinkering that has gone on during the era of commissioner Rob Manfred…”
Fixed that for ya.
Breck68
In my opinion pitchers have to go five innings to get the win so to me that’s how long a starting pitcher should at least go.
The “openers” or so called bullpen games does nothing but overuse the relievers. Like I said this is my opinion.
AL B DAMNED
How about limiting the number of innings for umpires. How about one inning for C. B. Bucknor. They can name it the Angel Hernandez rule CBA-OU812.
oldstatguy39
If I could address what seems like a bit of an over-reaction to this idea: and I confess this may be a bit long. Fairly randomly, I took a look at the 310 career starts by Wade Miley. Of these starts 170 met the 6 inning rule. He had 86 starts of less than 6 innings that met the conditions of more than 4 runs allowed or 100 pitches thrown. He also had 5 starts of less than 6 innings where he was taken out injured.
This left only 49 games that “broke the rules”. Some of these seem to be short starts because of incidents that may become more “exceptions”. 18 of these short starts are either his first start of the year or first start returning from injury. A further 4 short starts are following a rain delay.
I am thinking that a bunch of his starts that went into the sixth inning, but he didn’t finish could have been completed. He had four more starts where he was lifted with 98 pitches. Could a manager manipulate the rule by letting him throw 2 MORE pitches and THEN lift him for a reliever?
There are a couple starts where he just “doesn’t have it”. One was a 3.2 inning game where he threw 88 pitches and issued 7 walks. A 1.1 inning start where he gave up 2 hits and 4 walks in only 51 pitches. Maybe a manager can just go to the umpire and say, “He sucks today, for the safety of the opponents, let’s get him out of there. Okay?”
Anyway, it seems like only about 30 starts out of 310 actually breaks the rules and I would imagine that would be similar to other starters. Especially if it is broken down start by start.
I have a couple other things. They focus on an injury that requires an IL stay. What if the pitcher gets hit by a line drive? Might be just a bruise, but not able to get back on the mound. Or a collision at first base or home plate where the pitcher is shaken up? How will they handle ejections, in say the third inning?
BarNone
This just seems dumb. I mean, I am not a fan of constant pitching changes, but I don’t want my team to lose because after 5.2 innings he starts to lose things and now he has to get tagged for 4 runs before we take him out in an otherwise close game. If you want pitchers to pitch longer, put less focus on hitting 100 and more on pitch accuracy. I would rather have a starter that is lights out for 5 innings and then turn it over to my bullpen, than to have someone pitching for the sake of pitching.
Halo11Fan
BarNone, which is why I think 80 pitches is better. If he’s throwing less than 13 pitches an inning, he’s not magically losing at 5.2 innings.
bschaef
I think the best new rule would be to get a new commissioner who understands baseball. He has been killing the game with most of the rule changes he has instituted.
SomethingFromNutting
I have a rather silly idea – since its already been fairly well established that 100+ pitch outings have very little to do with overall pitcher health and elbow health. I would like to introduce the ‘Pinch Pitcher’ with a slight curve. The ‘Pinch Pitcher’ would be able to enter a game during a ‘stress inning’ (one where the starter is approaching or past 25 pitches which is a KNOWN fact for injury). The starting pitcher would then be permitted to re-enter the game the following inning. Thoughts on this ridiculous idea?