The Giants have optioned right-hander Camilo Doval, per Maria I. Guardado of MLB.com on X. Earlier, Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle had reported on X that Doval appeared to be headed out. The club also optioned catcher Jakson Reetz, per Guardado on X. To take the two roster spots, catcher Curt Casali was reinstated from the paternity list and Landen Roupp was recalled.
The move highlights what a struggle the 2024 campaign has been for Doval, especially lately. He spent the 2022 and 2023 seasons as a lights-out closer for the club, tossing 135 1/3 innings with a 2.73 earned run average. He struck out 29.5% of batters faced and got ground balls at a 54.4% clip. His 9.9% walk rate was a tad high, but not egregiously so. For reference, MLB relievers had a combined 9.5% walk rate last year. Doval saved 27 games in 2022 and 39 last year, the latter number leading the National League.
That performance put him on the map as one of the better closers in the game. He was selected to the 2023 National League All-Star team and the Giants had some extension talks with him last year. But 2024 has been a different story. Doval has racked up another 22 saves but that’s in spite of his 4.70 ERA on the year. His strikeout and ground ball rates are still strong but he’s walked 14.3% of batters faced.
Things have been trending in the wrong direction as well. Since the start of June, Doval has a 6.75 ERA in his 21 1/3 innings pitched and blown four saves in that time. Clearly, the Giants feel he needs some kind of reset. Rather than simply moving him to a lower leverage role, they’ll send him to the minors to try to get him back on track.
The Giants will now have to figure out who will close games. Manager Bob Melvin said that they will have one guy for the job but he hasn’t told that guy yet, per Slusser on X. He did say that Jordan Hicks could be an option later but not at the moment.
Perhaps that will point to Ryan Walker stepping in and taking the job. The righty debuted last year with a 3.23 ERA in 61 1/3 innings. He’s been even better this year, with a 2.24 ERA in his 60 1/3 innings. He has struck out 30.5% of batters faced while only giving out walks at a 5.6% clip and opposing batters have put the ball on the ground at a 47.5% rate. He has moved into a leverage role with 21 holds on the year so far.
Turning to Doval and his contract status, the move isn’t likely to have a massive impact on him unless this turns into an exceptionally long stint in the minors. He came into this season with two years and 71 days of service time, putting him 101 days shy of the three-year mark. Since we’re over 130 days into the season at this point, he’s already gone past that line. That means he’ll qualify for arbitration this winter and is still on track for free agency after 2027.
Optional assignments in future seasons could impact that timeline, however. He currently has two option years. A player needs to spend at least 20 days on optional assignment in a given season for that to count as one of their options. Even if Doval does stay down to use one here in 2024, he’ll have another that could be used in an upcoming season.
Of course, all parties involved will be hoping that these are concerns that will become moot. Ideally, Doval can quickly regain his control and return to the Giants in short order and boost their bullpen for the stretch run. The club is 59-58 and just three games away from a playoff spot at the moment. They feel that optioning Doval to the minors is the best thing for the club at the moment but him returning to form would obviously be best for the future.
Who closes?
Jordan Hicks, Tyler or Taylor Rogers, Ryan Walker – Ryan and Tyler are the conventional wisdom, Jordan would be the smart lottery ticket
Ah right forgot they moved Hicks to the pen.
I wish they give Taylor another shot at closer I liked him in Minnesota
Maybe platoon with Tyler for closer?
Hicks doesn’t WANT to be a closer though, remember?
PotterManiac777, That’s twisting the meaning of what Hicks meant. He didn’t want to be a closer simply because he want to be a starting pitcher. He’s run out of gas having thrown more innings this year that he ever has, and I have no doubt, that if the Giants asked to close temporarily, he’d have no problem with that.
Update, perhaps it will be Walker rather than Hicks at the moment.
Has to be Ryan Walker. Always lights out. Hicks could come in on occasion but since the Giants don’t overwhelm with offense, they’ll be in a lot of tight games. Hicks has already pitched more innings than any time in his career and one can see that it has taken a bit of a toll.
The law firm of Rogers & Rogers…
Holy sh$t, Batman!
WTF
No way! 100mph cutter and all those saves?
And all of those walks
AND all those blown saves.
100mph with an ERA over 4
Has he been THAT bad?
Yes
Not enough to send down. Just take put the closers role.
Have you seen how he pitches in non-Save situations? He’s somehow *worse* than usual.
You’re right, it’s way more than enough. A demotion would have been better, but he doesn’t think he should pitch any inning but the 9th. This is a wake up call
yes
Seriously??
I respect the Giants as an organization and they seem to have good fans too. But they need to get rid of the guy in charge at the moment Zartan or whatever his name is. He’s terrible.
For sending down someone who has been awful all year?
He has an FIP under 4. He’s the closer. Take him out of the closer role you don’t need to demote him.
It’s not just that he’s been serving up meatballs; the guy has also been a headcase, acting immature – punching watercoolers, bickering with the staff about his usage. They should have dealt him at the deadline.
The guy is a headcase and needs to deal with it as much as he does his delivery. Sending him down before he does anymore damage is the ONLY way.
He mitched and boaned about being used in non-save situations. I AM A CLOSER. Bro, you’re barely hanging on. Has come in several times with a 3 run lead and blown it.
Headcase is too harsh. Young guy having some struggles is more accurate.
I agree that it is probably time to move on from Farhan, but this is not an example of that.
@Blackpink If you respected the organization you would look up his name instead of writing, “Zartan or whatever”
No I don’t have to show respect to the bozo currently in charge to respect the organization. Stop being so defensive.
Or maybe Zaidi has an “exotic” name so you decided not to even bother learning how to at least spell it correctly or just mention that he’s the “Giants GM”
Maybe it was a joke because I am a big GI Joe fan. Stop looking for a reason to be offended.
But he’s not the GM.
If you hop down off your high horse you might notice that Zaidi isn’t the Giants GM
From Wikipedia: “Zartan is a fictional character from G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero one of the main villains in the franchise as the leader of the Dreadnoks, and a mercenary who often worked directly for Cobra Commander.”
I sell 80s toys for a living Al. I appreciate you sharing that lol.
Nice! You have a good job there. Yo Joe!
Was a kid in the 80’s my favorite was always the action figures that folded into rocks. Can’t recall what they were called now but I had like 7 or 8 of them, and we were pretty broke living in Sacramento back then. But I found a way to cut grass or wash cars or what ever I could do at 8 and 9 to get those.
Gobots and rocklords were the names of them. Thanks for bringing up that memory. This thread has already provided more entertainment value for me than anything Farhan has put together.
Preserving his arm/appearances, service time manipulation… both?
He’s been awful. Can’t find the zone, and even his scoreless outings are scary
More like preserving their 0.500 record
Neither. He is a total headcase. You can’t come in for a save situation and walk the first batter on four pitches. And get repeated pitch clock violations. And give up a three run HR to blow the save.
Ha, i’ve watched Chapman load the bases on 12 pitches at least a couple times this year, and seen the same guys blow save after save. You mean other teams go in a different direction when their relievers are ineffective? I can barely wrap my head around this strategy
His whip this year is higher than any season Chapman has had, by far
This is the team taking a stance. He had a tantrum earlier in the season and now this.
And he turned down the 50 million extension. And had played like a pile of dog s since.
That’s right. You guys nailed it. Turns down $50 million extension and now the punishment is swift when you don’t perform. Everyone else gets the message going forward
Damnnnnn!
He needs to go figure some things out. He’ll be okay in the long run for it. Great stuff when he’s on
I agree with the move but dang, I didn’t see this one coming.
Yoki
Exactly
I didn’t see this specifically, but after that horrible outing against the Nat’s in the last game, I felt like they had to remove him from the closer role. And now that he’s been optioned, it makes sense. Better to have him work on his issues at AAA than put him in a diminished bullpen role.
Jean
I assumed he would be working in the 6th inning, not demoted. But you know the Giants have about two weeks to go on a long winning streak before the Wild Card race passes them by.
Manny,
It was long perceived that Doval wasn’t good in non-closing situations. It was believed that he needed that adrenaline rush to bring his best stuff. I’m in agreement with that assessment based on what I’ve seen
I don’t think him pitching the 6th is going to be ideal for where his head is. And if he has mechanical issues that need to be addressed, I think AAA is the better place for that.
Should’ve traded him a the deadline when his stock was higher
they still might get something for him
They probably still could. If he looks good in AAA it might be interesting.
But it’ll be in the off season.
That would have been a good strategy, but his stock had already gone down at the deadline. His value has decreased steadily all season.
No reason to sell low, they can use him next year if he regains form. If not, they hope that another team thinks they can fix him.
I figured they’d give him some lower leverage innings first. He’s been good lately besides his last outing. Guess it’s closer or bust?
It’s like taking your clean up hitter out and making him bat clean up in AAA. As if that’s the only option…..
Black pink
If your cleanup hitter is hitting 0.125 after 400 at bats, it probably does more good to send him to minors than to bat him 8th where there is less protection. Exception would be a defensive super-star catcher.
Like I said already Duval has an FIP under 4. He’s not pitching that bad. And he obviously has a track record of pitching better than that. Sending him to the minors is ridiculous.
TigersLoveCinnamon — No he has not.
Before his last appearance, he had 16 appearances, he had a 2.93 era, and a 1.99 fip. So yes he has
Recency bias, but okay. …2.93 ERA is still barely good for a closer. 2.00-3.00 is good, 3.00-4.00 is average. A .500 team cannot have an average closer – every one of those outings are even more meaningful and higher leverage situations that they cannot afford to blow. It has been reported that he didn’t want to come in to games that weren’t save opportunities and when he does he is average to below average.
He also seems to not care. He is constantly getting pitch clock violations, sucks at holding runners on, isn’t on time to cover 1st, and is not great at fielding his position.
Agreed, but a 1.99 fip would be good. A lot of closers are like that though.
Honest truth is his cutter is getting crushed, and he throws it way too much.
He said that he only pitches the ninth in save situations. Doesn’t want to pitch in blow outs or when they are behind.
Not a team first player, time to move on from him over the winter. I would leave him in AAA for the rest of the season.
He’ll be with the Marlins and back in all-star form by the end of September
I still don’t understand why they don’t keep him
move him into Set up role – or the 7th inning
He still better than other guys in our bullpen
He’s just not a closer
You must be watching a different Camilo Doval than the rest of us.
Who have you been watching the last 6 weeks or so ? If you can’t pitch the 9th do you think he’d be any better in the 7th ? NO
He’s where he belongs in AAA.
Didn’t see this coming. I thought they could have traded him. It’s not often a team trades their closer. It would have been interesting to see what a package of Doval/Luciano would have brought them.
Should be a wake up call. Hopefully it works. I don’t think they want to install Hicks right now but I think he will end up with the job by the end of season if Doval doesn’t get it together.
Knew the Giants should’ve traded him when his value was high
Wow! I’m not sure what’s going on with this organization but it doesn’t look good!
Doval goes into these funks occasionally and figured things out. He’s been closing for the Giants for what, 3 seasons and this is how they treat him. Closers lose their touch and role all the time and are moved into middle relief. It’s a tough role. Farhan shipped him to Sacramento. The Giants have been a mess under Farhan and the beat goes on.
I just listened to Melvin explain their rationale for sending Camilo down rather than moving him into another role he’s unfamiliar with. It actually makes sense for him to work on things is a less stressful environment and seems like a good decision. I stand corrected in my critique of Farhan for making this decision.
This isn’t just a temporary “funk,” if you’ve been watching. He’s really hurting the team and would do damage where ever they used him.
This time it’s not Farhan’s fault, it’s Dovals. He’s become a head case and has argued with coaches about he’s being used. He’s become a prima donna and needs to be a team first player or outta here, as Kuip would say !!!
Guardians closer Emmanuel Clase went through this last year, but his ERA was never that high. Not sure what happened in the off season, but he came back better than ever this year. Hopefully the same for Doval.
Most teams demote a closer to setup or lower leverage to help get their guy back on track. Farhan ends the service time clock immediately. JD Davis knows this dude doesn’t play. Correa still regrets sending him his medical reports. Ruthless Farhan
Did you even read the very short article? there is no service time manipulation here. Doval has had enough time this season to go to arb next season. If they wanted to mess with his service time they would have had to send him down over a month ago.
Reading is fundamental.
You would think Ryan Walker plays for the cardinals with how much they are riding him. Fast track to fudging up his arm or possibly his career
Gutsy move. Nothing wrong with getting him out of there until he gets his swag back. Less pressure for everyone if he isn’t trying to figure it out at the top level.
I hope he’ll stay positive and develop some in AAA
“(Walker) has moved into a leverage role”
What does this mean? Every role is a leverage role – some high, some average, so low. Strange phrasing to say the least.
The swearing is the sound of all the fantasy and Roto players who overpaid for Doval in their drafts.
As of this year, Camilo Doval has shown a huge difference in his performance based on the situation. In save situations, his ERA is a stellar 1.55, indicating his effectiveness when closing out games. However, in non-save situations, his ERA jumps significantly to 5.17, highlighting some struggles when he’s not pitching under pressure.
– Giants current shot callers ARE LESS THAN BRILLIANT! ( ie virtual idiots! )
Giants current mismanagement “ Hey, let’s run our QB
30 times a game and when his yards per rush falls below McCaffery, we can demote him! If he notches about it, we’ll call him a cry baby in the media! Demote him and then send him for less $ ! BUT hey Mr.GM, don’t we need our QB to throw the ball for us?!?!
“ Shut-up. I’m in charge!!!”
PhilP;
Great stat!
I don’t think what the Giants management did was odd. But I do agree with you that the job of a professional sports team from the front office to the manager / head coach / coaching staff is to put their players in positions that they can succeed in….and then stretch them from there.
I’ve thought for years that the Giants FO was too into analytics and did not understand either how fundamental baseball is played and why it so important, or that their players were individual human beings that had to be treated as such.
The Giants have an avid – although sinking – fanbase left over from the championship years that appears to slowly be finding other things in the area to spend their time on. The owner seems to be in bed with the POBO, and for now the organization has to be showing a handsome profit. Unfortunately, the team is in a division with 1) the Dodgers that spend, spend, spend but can’t get past the early playoff rounds; 2) the Padres that have calmed the player movement down some, hired an upper-tier manager and are allowing him to run the team; and 3) the D-Backs that understand that pitching is what wins, and defense (not the stats, but through discipline and High Baseball IQ) is what supports pitchers.
Farhan should be running seminars for stat nerds and writing for Fangraphs.
Sounds like a manager issue
Samuel, very well put my friend! It’s become abundantly clear that the Giants front office is several steps behind the others in their division! Your statement on Profitability provides the key insight to part of the problem.
As a fan, I hope they get their crap together! But as a realist….. I damn well know that’s not about to happen!
Samuel, If me & you know those stats about Doval’s numbers in save situations, you can damn well guarantee that the other teams know it as well……as they laugh themselves to sleep tonight!
*** Another Fun Fact!
Doval has had 25! “Twenty Freaking Five” non-save appearances in 24’!!!! So, you couldn’t come up with ANY smuck to pitch away meaningless innings out of your pin?!?!? 25 times!? ♂️
So, You thought it was a good idea to bring in your closer? Instead of a journeyman or young arm?
They misused him PERIOD!
PhilP;
WOW!
I’m not a stat geek. Watch a lot of games on MLB.TV. See most teams play (the Giants are boring to me, they are one of at least a dozen teams that seem to be going trough the motions).
What you wrote is alarming. More than 50% of the teams closers appearances were in non-save situations? I’d have to go through and look at many closers records this year. Most I follow are brought into tie situations in the 9th inning. Some – especially on below .500 teams – are brought in at times to get them work because the save opportunities haven’t been there for a while. But no closer on the teams I follow closely is being brought in over 50% of the time in non-high-leverage situations.
Now I’m wandering what other screwball strategies the Giants have implemented. And this is not all on Melvin, who came out of the A’s screwball theories that never worked well in the playoffs. All managers today work with their analytic departments. Some more than others. With Melvin’s long A’s history (where Farhan broke in) there’s no doubt they’ve on the same page.
A bit more on analytics use: Many teams I like a lot are strongly influenced by analytics. Start with the Orioles, the D-Backs, the Brewers. Those teams are not boring. In fact, it’s exciting to watch them play
His attitude has been his own worst enemy this season
Duval is a headcase. Everything is ok if he is getting outs, but as soon as runners get on he’s a gas can. His ceiling is setup at best. I was completely blown away the Giants did a light show for him. Complete crap.
Any closer would lose it if they were CONTINUALLY brought in to pitch with 6-7 run leads or deficits!
They tell you one thing and then use you another way!
Ridiculous!
To you guys point, Is he headstrong? I hope so, he’s a closer! A immature 27 year old millionaire…… they ALL are!
I personally hope that he ask for a trade and gives them the old F-U! There’d be a line 1/2 mile long willing to trade for him!
Honestly, until that front office gets their heads out of their behinds…… they are going Nowhere!
We’ll see?!?! ♂️
since when do teams option their full-time closer for the past three years
Go get Doval Dombrowski