The Red Sox activated Vaughn Grissom from the 10-day injured list today and optioned the infielder to Triple-A, a move that The Athletic’s Jen McCaffrey reported the team was considering last week. Grissom hasn’t played in the majors since June 1 due to a right hamstring strain, adding to his troubled first season in Boston. Between this injury and a left hamstring strain in Spring Training, Grissom has been limited to 23 Major League games, and a dismal .148/.207/.160 slash line in 87 plate appearances.
Some kind of decision was required since Grissom’s 20-day minor league rehab assignment was up tomorrow, but his .604 OPS in 58 Triple-A PA during that assignment didn’t exactly force Boston’s hand for a promotion. Even as the Sox continue to look for answers at second base, Grissom will need to perform better to earn another call-up, and it remains to be seen when (or even if) he might be back in the majors before 2024 is over.
More from both the AL and NL East…
- Ranger Suarez has been on the Phillies’ 15-day injured list since July 24, and manager Rob Thomson told Lochlahn March of the Philadelphia Inquirer and other reporters that Suarez isn’t expected back until after the end of the Phils’ next homestand (August 13-18). Suarez does appear to be making decent progress in his recovery from lower-back soreness, as he threw a 36-pitch bullpen session today. Perhaps another bullpen session and at least one live batting-practice session will be in order, and Suarez’s return could be delayed a bit longer if the Phillies opt to send him on a minor league rehab assignment. The left-hander was arguably the best pitcher in baseball over the first three months of the season before his back problems started to surface, and Suarez struggled to a 7.71 ERA in his last 21 innings prior to his IL placement.
- Anthony Volpe fouled a ball off his left foot during a plate appearance in the second inning of tonight’s 9-4 Yankees loss to the Angels, and the shortstop was eventually forced out of the game in the eighth inning. Manager Aaron Boone told the New York Post’s Greg Joyce and other reporters that x-rays were negative and Volpe just received a contusion, though more will be known in the coming days if Volpe will need to miss any time. Volpe has an exactly average 100 wRC+ over 516 PA this season, with a lot of streakiness baked into a .257/.304/.410 slash line. The second-year player has been hot at the plate recently and is still delivering standout defense at shortstop, so the Yankees can only hope the injury isn’t serious.
- It was a similar story for Rays outfielder Josh Lowe, as x-rays were also negative on Lowe’s right knee after he fouled a ball off himself in the first inning of tonight’s game. Lowe was in enough discomfort that he couldn’t take the field for the bottom of the first, but his injury was also deemed a contusion. A pair of oblique strains have already sent Lowe to the IL twice this season, and he has hit .236/.296/.410 over 213 plate appearances thus far in 2024, playing almost exclusively against right-handed pitchers.
- The Marlins made several trades during their pre-deadline selloff, and the deal that sent Bryan De La Cruz to the Pirates drew some “disagreement and discussion internally,” according to The Miami Herald’s Barry Jackson and Craig Mish. De La Cruz isn’t arbitration-eligible until this coming offseason and is now under the Pirates’ control through 2027, but the Marlins’ analytics department wasn’t impressed by his long-term potential, “and a belief that De La Cruz wasn’t going to be a starter [in Miami] when the team is ready to contend.” The Fish also had a particular interest in prying right-hander Jun-Seok Shim away from Pittsburgh, as Shim’s spin rates and pitching arsenal impressed Miami evaluators. A Marlins source told Jackson/Mish that the team isn’t concerned about the shoulder issue that has thus far kept Shim from pitching in 2024.
Grissom had no spring training and has only had 22 AAA games so far. It is not surprising he needs some more time in AAA to get back into shape.
They need to let him play out the season at Worcester and then maybe some winter ball to make up for all of the lost playing time and come back to spring training with a fresh start.
Grissom has at least one hit in 10 of the 13 AAA games he has played in since the June 1st injury which is pretty good. The hits have mostly been singles.
A .604 OPS in AAA is not very good, and his exit velocities have been below what Sogard was doing. Sogard is also considered the better defender
Grissom had a .900+ OPS in AAA in 2023, so he has more ability than this. When he gets back to that level (maybe next year) then he should get another chance.
tff17: In 22 games at AAA this year, Grissom has a line of .259/.362/.333 which is an OPS of .695, but had a stretch of .604 OPS during his recent 13 game rehab assignment. This rehab assignment came after not playing for a month and a half, so it was basically like spring training for him. He had a .921 OPS last year in 102 AAA games. So, agreed he should return to a much higher level.
Rsox, the Red Sox already stated last week or the week before that they were going to do that. Stick him in AAA and leave him there rather than bring him up into the hot fire of a pennant race.
i think he needs to spend the off season with Pedy and Story and become a good defender. Baring that they should trade him and get something in return.
“De La Cruz wasn’t going to be a starter [in Miami] when the team is ready to contend.” What alternate Marvel universe is this? The Marlins are never ready to contend.
They were “ready” until a slew of bad decision making, which started right after their season ended last year torpedoed the whole thing. The injuries to the starting rotation didn’t help…
They were “ready” until a slew of bad decision making,
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They weren’t really ‘ready’. They had a Py W/L of 75-87, and their top 5 WAR SPs, primarily due to injuries, have combined for 7 wins and a 0.9 bWAR this year.
And I am not seeing any bad moves.
Rsox – That is what’s so frustrating about this season, they decided to punt on it before it even began …. and they did it merely for financial gain.
If they had just gotten the SP help they knew they needed, or better yet kept their Cy Young HOF SP instead of trading him, they’d be firmly in the postseason right now. Imagine if they didn’t go cheap on Imanaga and Lugo, and Teoscar too who actually revealed the insulting offer made to him by the Red Sox!
As for injuries to the starting rotation, they’ve had one significant injury …. Whitlock. It pales in comparison to the list of excellent SP on other teams that have been injured for an extended period of time.
Just look at this weekend’s opponent ….. Verlander, McCullers, Javier, Urquidy …. that’s nearly their entire starting rotation!!!! Not to mention star reliever Graveman and superstar Tucker.
We cannot complain about injuries when other teams have experienced far worse.
In this particular thread we were talking about the Marlins. However, i agree and things could be drastically better than they are. But would they be as fun to watch if it wasn’t the “Youth Sox” show right now?
Rsox – My apologies. As for the Marlins, I do think forcing out Ng was a factor in their downward spiral this season.
That’s because he’ll be retired by then.
Well the Pirates are never ready to contend either so he should fit right in
De La Cruz is just not that good. Not much defense value and he has one plus tool and that’s his pop. That’s not even plus plus. I think they made a great move getting an interesting P prospect for him.
Ranger is left handed…..
Hopefully these guys aren’t on the Kyle Tucker timeline of only needing a week off due to a foul ball contusion.
Yeah, where did Tucker go? The Shadow Realm?
He was banished by the evil Pegasus into the shadow realm indeed. He just didn’t trust in the heart of the cards enough 🙁
If only Tucker had his trusted Dark Magician to bail him out of a tough spot
If only he drew Pot of Greed, which would have allowed him to draw two additional cards from his deck
LMAO at the Marlins dealing for spin rate.
They seem to really miss Ng…
Hard to believe (if the rumors are true) that she turned down an interview for the RS GM job.
Perhaps they pre-paid for unlimited UCL surgeries and want to get their money’s worth.
I think Marlins moving De La Cruz was the right move. He a replacement level player that isn’t a very good outfielder regardless of having a strong arm. Plus he’s not a good baserunner
De la cruz will be non tendered well before 2027
De la Cruz already fits in perfectly with the Buc’s lackluster offense going 3 for his first 29 plate appearances with 9 strikeouts
Sale for Grissom. Yorke for Priester. Breslow is gonna have some splainin’ to do, Lucy.
I liked the Yorke for Priester swap. And they still have alternatives at 2B.
tff – Time will tell, if it turns out to be a bad trade it won’t be Boston’s first and certainly won’t be their last.
As tff said, Yorke for Priester is fine. But I’ve said the entire time that the refurn for Sale was going to be bad, even if Sale has a mediocre season.
During the off-season, they had Yorke. Why trade for another 2B prospect? Besides Yorke they had a ton of others that are the same as Grissom. Why not get a pitching prospect in return
Turning the page on Sale wasn’t a bad idea. If you recall Braves fans weren’t thrilled with this trade originally. They loved him.
Sale’s velocity was down last year and he was struggling to complete five innings. It is more than good coaching and good defense, he was ramping up his workload after basically three years off.
I’m glad he has recovered physically, looks like the same pitcher we saw in 2018, but at the time I didn’t have any confidence it would happen.
I am fully on board with the trade of Sale. It’s like a move to safe face right? He didn’t live up to his extension and he was consistently injured. He got hurt recovering from an injury in completely unrelated incidents. The comebacker that broke his finger. Guy just had bad luck. I love Sale as a player, but I’m glad I’m not worrying about what way he’s going to magically get injured.
But my issue is with the return. The Braves were chomping at the bit to trade Grissom (just like Verdugo, but let’s not go there. My Friday has started ok, don’t want to ruin it just yet). The Braves could have used his bat last year if they were confident in him. Instead he didn’t plays well in brief stints and they used his time in the minors to build trade value.
If his bat was good as all the fans think, then he wouldn’t be in the minors now. The truth is fans overvalue their own prospects, myself included.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Yorke has a better MLB career than Grissom.
‘Chomping at the bit’ is an overstatement considering they were getting him ABs and realized after his ’23 AAA numbers that he needed more ML ABs than what ATL could provide them with a healthy Albies and Arcia with a hot bat in ’23 and much better glove at SS. One of the biggest issues with ATL this year is depth, especially having a utility IF, which in year’s past was Arcia, until he replaced Swanson at SS. They’ve scraped the bottom of the barrel since, now on Whit Merrifield. They could have easily had Grissom fill that role, but BOS was just as willing to give Sale a change of scenery that he needed, with ATL willing to take on dollars and give up a prospect with a nice cup of coffee and nowhere to play. Yes, fans overvalue their own prospects, but you’re understating how much BOS needed to turn the page on Sale, for both parties’ sake.
*could not provide with a healthy Albies and Arcia…
Run – the Sox sent over 17MM in the deal. As I said, if Grissoms bat was as good as the fans think it is, Atlanta would have found a spot for him. Grissom could have filled in that utility role for the braves last year. Instead, he spent most of the season in AAA to not completely kill his trade value.
I don’t think I’m understating how much Boston needed to move on from Sale. I have said that that was the right move. If Sale was still on the Sox, I guarantee you he would have been hurt multiple times by now and probably not pitching again for the rest of the season.
My issue with the trade is that the Sox didn’t need another middle infielder prospect. They have those in bunches. They should have gotten a pitcher to improve the weakness in their farm system.
All – in 2023 Bobby Dalbec had a .938 OPS in AAA, and like Grissom he can’t hit major league pitching. If Dalbec was on another team and was traded for Sale, more Red Sox fans would have been livid.
His bat was never the issue in ATL — it was always his glove.
Joemo: It sounds like you are looking for reasons to be pessimistic. I am looking for reasons to be optimistic.
Ok but as I have been saying, if his bat is as good as fans think it is, they would have found a spot for him.
And I’m pretty sure the bat was the issue in ATL, because he was rocking that great 78 OPS+ in the majors. If he came out and hit like he did in 2022 or like he did in the minors, they would have found a spot for him.
But he showed that 2022 might have been a fluke and ATL traded him while his value was still high. If they left him in the majors, his value would have decreased significantly as he would have (probably) continues to struggle. That’s the whole point I’ve been trying to make.
All – not looking for reasons to be pessimistic. Just explaining why I think that a middle infield prospect for Sale was a bad return.
I think the Sox should have focused on getting a pitching prospect in return for Sale, instead of getting yet another middle infield prospect. Did Grissom provide something that the Sox did not have in AAA? The Sox have an all bat not glove guy (Valdez) and they had Sogard, with a ton of other options in AA.
So now Boston came to the same conclusion as atlanta last year, that Grissom isn’t ready. Atlanta was able to sell high on him.
Joemo: I see what you are saying. You may be right. We will need to see what becomes of Grissom – how he does and/or who he is traded for. We don’t know all the offers the Sox had on the table for Sale. Grissom might have been the best offer by far for all we know.
Yeah, hopefully I’m wrong and Grissom figures it out and has a long and successful MLB career.
Joemo: Agreed. If he doesn’t fit in Boston, hopefully they trade him for someone that does.
The scenario where the Braves keep Grissom and ship someone else to the Bosox to get $17m in coverage on Sale’s contract is interesting. Grissom was off of the prospect listings because of loss of rookie status, but was no. 7 in 2022. I doubt he’d slipped a lot in value by the end of 2023, so who would have been the comp last off-season? Regardless, the Braves had already moved him to OF.
Actually the answers are (1) guys traded before Grissom (Shewmake, Shuster and Phillips) and (2) Smith-shawver and Schwellenbach. The Braves were very lucky the Red Sox thought Grissom could play 2nd base, because the Red Sox could have said “no, I want Schwellenbach.”
AA might have said yes because he needed the $17m for CBT purposes and he could have ended up with 3 DH types to clutter the OF (Soler, Ozuna and Grissom). That would be fun to watch.
Grissom wasn’t a utility IF for the Braves because he made 10 errors in 60 MLB starts. His MILB results were about the same. Dalbec is a better utility IF candidate than Grissom.
luckyh3 hours ago
Turning the page on Sale wasn’t a bad idea.
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We know two things for sure.
1-Most RS wanted to get rid of Sale.
2-Virtually no one thought we’d get anything back for him.
There is a lot of disremembering in here.
Sale would have been injured more in Boston now that’s the dumbest thing I’ve seen here and that’s saying something maybe braves should trade for trout he won’t be injured anymore in a braves uniform
I wished they had gotten some pitching from the Braves. I was a bit surprised about them receiving another middle infielder in return. They are filthy with SS types in the minors.
The Braves were shifting him to outfield because he sucked at SS and wasn’t much better at 2b
Grissom had a .921 OPS in AAA in 2023. I think that was a pretty good return for Sale. I don’t know how to look it up, but he was probably one of the top hitters in all of AAA last year.
Yeah pitching prospects desperately needed
They can still acquire pitching. If they viewed Grissom as having more value than any pitching prospects offered, you take Grissom. I think you take the most value and trade for what you need later.
If they viewed Grissom as having more value than any pitching prospects offered
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100% correct. You don’t take a 40 FV prospect over a 50 FV 2B prospect just because you need pitching.
JoeBrady – typically this makes sense, but you have to remember that the Red Sox farm system has literally no pitching and about 10 45/50 FV middle infield prospects.
The farm system wasn’t, and still really isn’t, balanced. They have many top tier position player prospects but no top tier pitching prospects.
You can’t construct a team with just middle infielders, you need pitchers too.
The Red Sox farm system is decently deep in pitching at this point. Priester, Fitts, and Penrod at AAA, Sandlin, Gonzalez, Dobbins, and Early at AA. Perales, once he recovers from TJS. And basically their entire draft was guys who will start in A-ball, along with ERC, Paez, and Valera. Even better, two or three of those guys have high-end potential.
Now I would agree that there wasn’t nearly this much pitching in the system when Breslow took over, but I think that has been corrected by now?
Tff – yeah, now it looks much better. Still really lacking a top tier talent but they have a ton of arms with some good upside. Cason signed and is an interesting two way player as well.
I’ve been really excited for Perales. He was having a really good year. Valera could make some big strides as well.
I am quite excited to see what happens with this team going forward.
Tough to point to an A-ball player and declare, “This guy is going to be an ace!” They do have a few arms with that kind of potential, though, with timelines of 2026 or 2027.
The Red Sox could use a veteran ace to complement Houck, Crawford, and Bello. I’m not convinced Giolito is that guy. But pretty much every team in baseball could use an ace at least as much as the Red Sox.
How many teams have their positional needs covered as well, with the salary space to add such an ace?
One for sure. The Orioles have roughly $170m in usable cap space if Burnes and Santander decline QOs and Jimenez’s option is declined by the team. They will need reserves, but they’re pretty covered at all 4 IF positions C and 2 of three OF positions.
The Braves had no pitching prospects to offer. I agree that the Bosox are decent in terms of pitching prospects, but it was a supply problem. ATL was facing losing Fried and Morton. They had already traded three blah pitching prospects. They had Smith Shawver and Swellenbach left and they’re lucky the Red Sox were decently stocked with pitching prospects and had signed Giolito.
10 45/50 FV middle infield prospects.
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I don’t disagree, but much has changed since the trade. I thought Hamilton’s ceiling was a decent UIF. Romy has looked great. Valdez looks like a hitter, albeit with a shockingly poor glove. And Campbell was not yet Campbell.
If one wanted to conjecture, one might say that Grissom is the one that made Yorke dispensable. A little bit of a stretch, but plausible.
Joemo: They traded for Grissom, not a 2B prospect.
Understand the difference?
Blue – I was using the word prospect to give hope for his future, but you’re right since he no longer has rookie eligibility he is by definition no longer a prospect. Now the trade sounds worse: Red Sox trade Chris Sale and pay the non-deferred portion of his salary in 2024 for a minor league (not a prospect) 2B.
During the off-season, they had Yorke. Why trade for another 2B prospect?
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OI don’t think they had any faith that Yorke was ever going to be their 2B.
If Grissom never plays for the Red Sox again, it has to go down as one of the worst trades in MLB history. Sale leads the league in ERA and Wins, 2nd in K’s, had a $20M team option for next season, and the Red Sox are paying $17M of his salary. Horrendous trade.
Very probable that Grissom will come into ST strong next year and will put all this behind him. If not, then watch out for Campbell.
tff – I strongly defended Grissom earlier this season, but after 181 PA’s this year (not including Winter League) I don’t think he can continue to use the missing ST and flu recovery as an excuse anymore.
The fact the Red Sox decided to stick with Sogard/Valdez/Hamilton/Gonzalez says a lot about what they think of Grissom right now.
Right now, Grissom isn’t a ML player.
I’m not one to make excuses. Excuses don’t matter. I’m just saying that he still has a chance to be a ML player next year, and that I don’t think we can reasonably judge that potential on what we’ve seen this year.
We know he can mash AAA pitching, because he did that in 2023. Or at least we know he COULD mash AAA pitching. Let him get back to that level, if he can, and it will then be worth giving him another look at the majors.
Wouldn’t be the first time a player had a crappy year marred by injuries and ineffectiveness. Check out what O’Neill did in 2022 and 2023? Sometimes guys bounce back from that, sometimes they don’t. The book is not yet closed on Grissom.
tff – Of course, nobody is closing the book on Grissom already. We just can’t ignore how bad he’s been this year and in his prior two years, that’s all.
Dalbec and Franchy mashed AAA pitching too, ‘nuf ced.
O’Neill has rebounded with his power numbers, but that’s it. He’s no longer the GG outfielder he once was, not even close. And he completely lacks fundamentals, like failing to call off Devers before that collision and what about the Runner Obstruction call against him? That was beyond ridiculous.
O’Neill is a poor man version of Schwarber …. who, BTW, hit a double and 3 homeruns in one game on Wednesday!
I figure Grissom gets one more real shot at the majors next year.
Dalbec has struck out 305 times in 933 plate appearances at AAA, or 33%. Franchy with 364 in 1337 PA, or 27%. Grissom with 86 in 559 PA, or 15%.
That isn’t to say that Grissom might not end up a AAAA player, but comparing him to Dalbec or Franchy is just silly. They are completely different hitters, and the two you mentioned weren’t able to make consistent contact against minor league pitching, let alone major league pitching.
Yeah, Dalbec can punish a mistake, but major league pitchers don’t make enough mistakes to live that way. Not when your strikeout rate approaches 50%.
tff – Exactly! That’s why I don’t get as excited about prospects as others here do. As superb analysts such as Youk and Loomer have often said, there is a massive difference between AAA and MLB. The vast majority of AAA stars never stick in the majors.
So even if we completely throw out Grissom’s 2024 numbers, I’m still concerned as to why his OPS dropped so much in 2023. What he did in Gwinnett doesn’t guarantee MLB success IMO.
Oh, that’s easy to understand… Aside from a handful of games in August (during which he hit .300), Grissom’s ML games in 2023 came at the start of the year. He had essentially zero experience in AAA at that time, and was skipping directly from AA.
*AFTER* he proved that he wasn’t ready in April/May 2023, they sent him down to AAA for some seasoning. And he did pretty well there.
I’m sure you would agree that rushing prospects from AA to the majors doesn’t always work out? Heck, the transition from AAA to the majors isn’t always easy. Just ask Duran about that one.
If you dismiss 2024 due to the illness and injury problems, then he remains a solid prospect somewhere in the 45-50 grade range. Roughly similar level to Yorke with roughly similar accomplishments to this point. Skill sets aren’t all that different either.
Would love for both Yorke and Grissom to establish themselves in the majors, but there is a decent chance that neither does so. Happily the Red Sox have alternatives if he doesn’t work out.
tff – He did quite well with the Braves in 2022, so most likely when opponents got the book on him he failed to make adjustments.
Yes absolutely I agree going from AA to the majors doesn’t always work out. But after 3 1/2 months in AAA last year, why didn’t he finish out the season in the majors? I tend to agree with Braves fans who believe he was being kept down so as not to diminish his value by struggling at the MLB level. That’s why some Sox fans believe the same thing happened with Yorke, and why he wasn’t given a chance.
Duran was a unique situation though, with him his struggles had more to do with depression/anxiety than lack of talent.
Overall we are on the same page though, Grissom is certainly young enough to turn things around and nobody (including Sale!!!) should be written off because of injuries.
It’s just hard for me to think about what could have been if that trade wasn’t made. Certainly it was made because ownership didn’t plan to contend this season, but as you can see by the current standings injuries have really, really leveled the playing field. I mean the Sox have only 6 more losses than the best team in the league, how crazy is that? Would have been only 5 more losses if Cora didn’t use Keller today, but don’t get me started on that. LOL!
And on a side note, the other day in KC there was a popup Devers was chasing right in front of the Sox dugout ….. and instead of the players (such as Valdez) on the railing bracing to catch him, they all ducked toward the bench …. what’s up with that? The announcers were all over the players for doing that, and rightfully so. It’s the little things like that which separate the great TEAMS from the average ones.
Did Sale really have that much trade value at the time of the trade? At the time of the trade, he was entering his age 35 season and hadn’t been the good version of Chris Sale since 2018. At best, acquiring Sale was a big gamble. The Red Sox main goal may have been to dump as much of his salary as possible while freeing up his roster space which they succeeded at. Any prospect coming back may have been a secondary concern.
If the goal were to dump salary, they didn’t go about it right. My guess is that they had concerns about the viability of Hamilton, Yorke, Meidroth, Sogard, and Paulino as starters, and Campbell wasn’t even in the picture at the time. Beyond those five, the next tier of MI prospects was 2-3 years away, and you don’t want to go that long without a solid 2B.
Think the organization is in a better situation today, which is why they are able to trade away some of those guys.
tff17: How can anyone say that the Red Sox didn’t dump enough salary or get a good enough prospect for Sale when we don’t know what offers were on the table for Sale? I don’t see how anyone can fairly criticize when they don’t know all the details. The Red Sox may have taken the best or only deal available for Sale for all we know.
Sale had $27.5M remaining on the deal, but $10M of that was deferred for 15 years making a “present value” cost in the vicinity of $22M. They sent $17M cash to the Braves, so their net savings was only $5M or so.
I’m not as down on Grissom as some, and at the time of the trade would have attributed a cash value of $20M+ (not implying that he is worth $20M/year, just that his total production over six years less his arbitration salaries would likely exceed that). I never said that it was a bad deal or that they didn’t get a good enough prospect!
But they didn’t dump significant salary. The salary that they shed was minor relative to the value of the prospect they acquired.
tff17: That makes sense. Sounds like we agree.
Sale is 35 yo while Grissom is 23. Grissom is making the league minimum and is under team control for 6 more seasons. Sale’s resurgence can be attributed to Atlanta’s coaching staff and better health, but how long will that last? Grissom has had a lost year, sure, but his hit tool and speed will play huge dividends at Fenway. TBF- I believe he was brought in not only as the heir apparent to Story, but also, ironically, insurance for the oft-injured Story. Not a horrendous trade…yet…
Yeah, not impossible that we could end up with Mayer and Story as the starting infielders next year, with Campbell at AAA waiting in the wings. And Meidroth/Sogard fighting for a utility role.
tff – What do you project to be the odds of Mayer getting called up this season? I think it will happen if the Sox are out of the race by Labor Day. If they stay in the race, I don’t anticipate Mayer getting called up unless there’s a rash of injuries.
Mayer’s timeline doesn’t demand a taste of the majors in 2024. He could finish the year at AAA and still compete for a job in Spring Training.
Mayer is not yet eligible for the Rule 5 draft, so there is a cost to bringing him up this year. The 60-day DL doesn’t exist in the off-season, so if they bring him up in September then they are spending roster spots on both Mayer and Perales. If they wait until March, they can put Perales on the 60-day DL and use that spot for Mayer.
Roster games, I know, and there are certainly other ways they could play it. But consider the possibility that Mayer is NOT ready for the majors yet? If you see that in Spring Training, then you simply don’t add him to the roster at that time. Let him get another half year in the minors, or whatever he needs. But if you add him today, you are committing that roster spot (and in some sense committing him to play in the majors) whether or not he is ready.
I think they wait, unless a rash of injuries forces the issue.
tff – Great response, thank you! I guess I’m just one of those believers in the value of late season MLB experience for rookies.
I’ve struggled to think of the last Sox position player who made his MLB debut early in the season.
These guys were definitely June 29th or later:
Duran – July
Rafaela – August
Abreu – August
Devers – July
Casas – September
Mookie – June 29
Benintendi – August
Ellsbury – June 30
Xander – August
The recent changes awarding the organization bonuses for ROTY finish have changed the equation a bit. Not sure teams have quite figured out how they want to play that one?
Wouldn’t preclude them from an August debut, but these guys haven’t even seen AAA yet. People were talking about Yorke like he had been buried, yet he spent less than half a season at AAA? I don’t think it helps these kids to rush them.
tff – I’m not a minors expert so this is a genuine question, are you disagreeing with the general perception that AA is the new AAA in that players develop the most and prove themselves the most at the AA level?
Certainly AAA is where most of the “filler” players are found, guys like Keller (before today) and Horn and Isaiah Campbell and Heineken and Dalbec etc. So it kinda makes sense that the true prospects punch their ticket to The Show at the AA level.
The jump from A+ (Greenville) to AA (Portland) is the largest jump other than the step to the majors. Even top prospects will generally face enough of a challenge at AA so they can work on specific skills, such as plate coverage or swing discipline. So it makes sense for most players to spend 100 or more games at that level.
Nice to have a month or two at AAA before your debut, though, and lesser prospects can benefit from a full year at the level. Even the slightest weakness in a player’s game at AAA blooms into a big problem in the majors.
So I don’t think Yorke was being unfairly held back, even if I appreciated his success in AAA, and I believe a month or two in AAA would benefit the Big Three. I’m hoping to see them promoted Mondyay, but then I’ve been hoping that for a while.
tff17: I get the feeling they are not rushing the promotion of Mayer, Anthony and Teel. Maybe they are hoping to develop some pitching to go with them to MLB. I think Campbell is probably the only one forcing the issue for a promotion to AAA right now.
frisco – Of course it’s not a horrendous trade *yet*, but all indications thus far point to it will be.
Health is a total non-factor. Being younger with no injury history doesn’t guarantee good health or bad health for either player. You cannot predict future health, it’s literally impossible.
The Red Sox have a darn good coaching staff as well, but realistically a veteran pitcher with Sale’s resume probably doesn’t need much assistance from coaches.
This is not a knock on Breslow, he’s a rookie and it was one of his first (if not the first?) trades he has ever made and of course AA is one of the best ….. so the odds of it being a good trade for the Sox were always quite low.
Really no different than Bloom trading Mookie to his former mentor, veteran executives love dealing with rookie POBO’s.
Amazing coming from a fan that’s team traded Babe Ruth away.
As Harry Frazee never said, “Ah, pitchers are a dime a dozen.”
Mets – It wasn’t a trade, no other players involved.
It was a purchase, cash only. He was sold to the Yankees.
Bryan De La Cruz has always been a below average hitter and player, but I had no problem with the Pirates acquiring him for peanuts at the deadline. However, anyone with common sense would assume he was acquired to be a part-time/bench player and hit around 7th in the lineup. Shelton starts him every game and bats him cleanup or 5th. Someone make it make sense.
Until the Pirates fire Shelton and Haines, they’ll never compete. At least this last week’s disaster outed Shelton as a fraud to his last remaining supporters in the media. Every loss except one you can point the finger primarily at him. This mini-collapse is probably worth it in the long-run if it gets Shelton and Haines fired.
I’m a fan of both teams. Sale has been one of the few bright spots for Atlanta’s season. So far, that trade is looking lopsided, but I like Grissom’s bat, if he gets healthy.
slow – He’s got a career .643 OPS in just 87 games, he hasn’t exactly shown anything yet. And he’s trending downward, his second year with the Braves was a lot worse than his first.
Yeah I was mostly just trying to be nice. I did see some flashes of pop when he first got called up, but haven’t seen much from his since. His play at SS was atrocious. If Sale keeps pitching well, it’s a very lopsided trade.
Boston could have pushed themselves over the top…..had they only called Detroit and fleeced Harris.
Prospects are only prospects until they prove it.
Option 2 for Grissom (Braves used 1 in 2023). He’ll be out of options if he is sent down next year and his already diminishing value will further erode.
I saw him play 3 times in AAA last year. He will not make it as a middle infielder. I think Red Sox fans should lump him with Dalbec and have zero expectations.
Option 2 is not definite *YET*. The option is only spent if the player spends 20+ days in the minors. If they call him back up in the last week of August, then he will go into 2025 with two options remaining.
That said, he isn’t a player where I care deeply about the options. He doesn’t have enough defensive flexibility to be suitable as a bench player, unlike Meidroth or Sogard who can go up and down for a few years as the team needs. The Red Sox will surely know by the end of 2025 whether Grissom is the answer at 2B or not.
The trade of Sale was inevitable he just wasn’t working in Boston for whatever reason. It would have been interesting to see how he would have done under the new pitching coaches.
This idea that the Red Sox don’t have any pitching prospects is asinine and is just parroting the so called experts. While it might be true they don’t really have any help this year and the upper minors might not be flush especially after Perales going down but they do have Fitts in AAA he’s pitching pretty well especially lately. They have Sandlin in AA Portland he is really rounding into form. He has really good stuff he’s a legit starting pitching prospect. There’s also Dobbins in AA he’s probably more of an up and down option as a starter but he throws strike and he has a legit starters pitch mix. I will be really interested to see what the lab does with him this offseason. The real pitching talent is down in Greenville and below. In Greenville you have ERC, Paez, Monegro, and I also like Noah Deans stuff. In Salem I’m very intrigued with Juan Valera he just turned 18 he’s in Salem and he has yet to give up an earned run he throws mid 90’s with heavy sink, which is a theme with all the pitching prospects brought in by Bloom. He’s very young but he’s a good pitching prospect with a starters pitching mix as an 18 year old. Speaking of young another prospect I’m really exciting about is Dalvinson Reyes the first international pitcher that Breslow has signed he’s got huge upside he 6’5 200 pounds with huge fastball projection and three other quality pitches oh and even at 17 he’s a strike thrower.
There are other intriguing pitchers as well mostly in the lower minors but the point is the Red Sox have pitching coming and under the tutelage of Breslow’s team of Willard, Body etc I have never been more confident in the pitching this org has coming. That’s just the pitchers the position side is even more loaded this is a top 5 farm in baseball maybe higher and the experts are going to figure that out soon.
Bruin – I hope you’re right! I do think when people say the Sox have no pitching prospects, they mean pitchers who could help them now and in the near future.
The Red Sox are known for wasting a lot of time, effort, money and prospects acquiring pitchers from other organizations. It’s kind of ironic that John Henry forced out Dombrowski because John wanted to run the team like the Rays, and yet 5 years later the Sox still are doing the exact opposite of what the Rays do for pitching.
Yeah, I mentioned Sandlin, ERC, and Valera above. Am really intrigued by those three. Plus Tolle is a big arm. And Perales. And Fitts has looked a lot sharper, as you mention, over the last three starts.
Add that to Houck, Crawford, and Bello, who are each around for 3+ more years, and I think you’ve got a rotation? Giolito already signed for next year. Priester ought to be taking his crack at the majors. Fitts is basically ready, when there is an opening for him. Plus Criswell, who isn’t half bad as a depth arm!
I’m thinking people haven’t been paying attention to what Breslow has done?
tff176 hours ago
I’m thinking people haven’t been paying attention to what Breslow has done?
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It’s real early for this, but I am loving the Fitts & Sandlin for Verdugo & Schreiber..
Troll, I base my educated guesses on what I see on the field and his stuff. The fact is no one knows for sure about a prospect and some of these prospects will flame out but some won’t it’s the nature of the game. I’m using ERC for an example when I first saw him he he stood as a skinny teenager he was 6’ 3 and couldn’t weigh more then a 160. He wasn’t very impressive physically but the first thing I noticed was the quality of the off speed pitches the swing and miss that was generated and the amount of sink that his fastball had. When I saw the kid the next season, last season his fastball had gained little velocity and he was still very thin. I saw an interview he did at the end of last season talking about how in the off-season he was going to add strength and velocity this off-season. We fast forward to this season now he’s weighing 185:pounds and he’s sitting at 95 and teaching 98 with heavy sink now he’s a prospect. Here’s the thing barring an injury he has more projection for velocity it would not surprise me at all if he ends up sitting at 97 and reaching triple digits with at least three other pitches he throws a good curveball, a decent change, and a slider that has improved. He has a starters pitch mix. Imo the key to ERC is changeup he has the loose arm action to develop a good change. If I’m Breslow I send him to the DR this off-season to work with Pedro on his changeup. If he develops that pitch sky is the limit for that kid.
Here’s another thing I do while watching a game in the minors regardless is he the best pitcher on the field and what do the announcers from the other team say about him. In ERC case he’s clearly almost always the better pitcher with better stuff and the others teams announcers typically talk about how it’s going to be rough day for there hitters. Does the kid standout? These are questions you have to ask when you watch a minor leaguer. How will the kid adjust as he climbs the ladder? No one really knows but you can scout the stuff in a pitcher and you can scout the demeanor on the mound the presence and the likelihood that he progresses. Is the kid maxed out does he have no more projection? Can he throw strikes? Can he reach back when he gets in trouble on the mound. These are all things that you can watch, if you watch the games , and see for yourself. How do the opposing batters react after they’re at bat so many things to watch.
I’m just using ERC as an example. When 18 year Juan Rivera toes the rubber in Salem he’s clearly the best pitcher on the mound. When Yordanny Monegro is throwing that 12-6 curve it’s clearly a big league caliber curve ball. When David Sandlin comes out and throws his 98 mph heat and his slider it’s clearly swing and miss stuff. There are things that just stand out when you watch. I will say this no one knows for sure about 99% of these prospects some will regress and never make it some will get injured and never make it. The point is all we can do is watch and take educated guesses. Of course there’s not any Paul Skenes but there’s only one of him he’s a generational pitcher he went #1 in a very deep draft for a reason.
I think you’re a smart baseball man but your vitriol for Bloom clearly clouds your judgement. It’s like anything that happened in the Bloom days is bad and was disaster. You clearly Don’t watch minor league baseball so you look at stats and scout a stat line. If you do that then you might come to conclusion that Anthony isn’t having a very good year and he is regressing. If you watch you can easily tell they are trying to get him to add loft and take advantage of his incredible power. He could go up and continue to hit 50 plus percent of his balks on the ground and continue to dazzle with a higher average but here’s the thing he’s not a burner and those ground balls turn into outs at a much higher rate in the bigs then in the minors so it’s fools gold. They need him to add loft and take advantage of his raw plus power. If you just scouted the stat line on Casas coming up you would come to the conclusion he’s overrated, if you actually watched him you would realize that’s not the case. My point don’t always scout the stat line you have to put eyes on these kids.
You say KD17 is a smart baseball man but if his vitriol for bloom clouds his judgement then how smart is he really? I think dombrowski is overrated but I’d never use that as a reason to trash on players on the Red Sox who or suggest that they are somehow not as good because of who drafted or signed them.
He said tollfree is smart because he is a lot smarter than the morons here who say the dumbest things like nobody wanted to keep sale and sale had no value its total crap and they say breslow wants to win and they say Keller is a good signing how pathetic in a game the convicted cheater Cora says is important he uses Keller in a 1 run game you need to stop and listen to tollfree he know baseball he probably a former manager
your analysis deserves being dismissed because it goes from downright wrong to bat poop crazy especially when it comes to players brought in by bloom. Also if your opinion is the outlier vs the experts then chances are you’re the one who’s wrong (and the condescending moron) not them.
no KD 17 isn’t smart and neither are you and neither his nor your opinions are rooted in any kind of fact or analysis. In fact you’re nothing more than a less articulate version of him and also lashing out at people smarter than you.
Troll you know what I thought about not replying to you but you have to know by now it’s not in my nature.
You Don’t watch minor league games that’s very clear to me. It’s also clear to me and anyone that reads your posts your vitriol against anything Bloom clouds your judgement. Mayer has the highest average in the Eastern League, a very difficult league to hit in I might add, he’s slashing .307/..370/.480 his k percentage is below 20% he makes hard contact, he’s controlling the strike zone well, there’s literally not one person that makes a living rating prospects who doesn’t rate him a top 20 prospect in baseball. Then there’s you who says he sucks why in this case it’s certainly not the stat line or is it because Bloom drafted him so he sucks.
You’re predictable and quite amusing to me if it’s a DD guy he’s great if it’s Bloom guy he’s terrible. I got news for you Bloom’s regime did a good job of stocking the farm and that will show itself over the next several years and willing to bet that. All we have is our opinions yours are based on solely on stats you think you can look at a stat page and say whether a guy sucks or not. I got news for you in the minors it doesn’t work that way but you continue with your simple minded approach it works for a simple mind.
Was I wrong about Downs yes I was there’s no guaranty in baseball but I als said Devers would hit when we’re crying about why Chavis wasn’t getting an opportunity when I was saying watch him he can’t hit the high fastball. I also said that Casas would hit anyone that actually watched him and didn’t just scout the stat line could see that but you just want to say he made adjustments well duh he did that every level in the minors he almost always started slowly I was that for years then he adjusted and when he started to rake they moved him up then the process started over. He did this throughout the minors but you would know that if you bothered to watch.
I’m willing to admit when I’m wrong but you aren’t it’s funny actually. I’m looking forward to your retort but I’m not going away I never will . I’ll refute your simple mindedness till you block me but I’m never going away. I do think you understand baseball decently when you actually watch the game but your biases limit your takes on baseball but if you want to go on I’m here let’s go.
Mi Casas es tu Casas
Trollfree was “so smart” that he offered to re-sign Vazquez, convulsed that Bloom let goChavis and Benintendi , that the Red Sox did not sign deGrom.
Bruin1012
You should get used to the idea that Trollfree considers himself the smartest on this site and when other users point out his mistakes, his butt burns.
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I enjoyed your post on the Red Sox pitching outlook, looks like minor league pitching will improve with Breslow and Bailey coming in.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in 2025 one of the pitchers you listed above makes it to the Major Leagues, be it Rodriguez, Monegro, Paez…
Start minors SP 2025
AAA:
Fitts, Dobbins, I.Coffey, Penrod, Gambrell
AA:
Sandlin, Monegro, Paez, Earley, Mullins
A+:
Rodriguez, Dean, Wehunt, Tolle, Neely
A:
Valera