The Pirates are scouring the trade market for ways to improve their lineup, and given the lack of pure sellers with available bats, one potential avenue the team has explored is trading from another area of its major league roster to augment the offense. General manager Ben Cherington discussed such a possibility on Sunday (link via Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette), and he mentioned just today that the team has an abundance of pitching that could appeal to other clubs (also via Hiles).
Pittsburgh indeed has a deceptively deep collection of arms, as MLBTR’s Darragh McDonald explored last Wednesday in a piece for MLBTR Front Office subscribers. ESPN’s Jeff Passan suggests that a back-end starter such as Bailey Falter or perhaps a late-inning relievers like Aroldis Chapman or even Colin Holderman and David Bednar could be in play if the Bucs indeed want to use their collection of arms to add a bat. Alex Stumpf of MLB.com tweets that the Pirates have been willing to deal from the bullpen to improve the lineup but also adds that some of the team’s pitching prospects could come into play.
It goes without saying that Paul Skenes, Jared Jones and Mitch Keller don’t factor into this thinking. That excellent trio is the very foundation on which the Pirates’ staff will be built for the next several years. But the Buccos have plenty of affordable back-of-the-rotation options.
The Braves are covering all but $3MM of Marco Gonzales’ salary this season. He’s pitched to a 2.70 ERA with a 17.3% strikeout rate and 5.5% walk rate in 26 1/3 innings and has looked sharp since returning from a two-month IL stint owing to a muscle strain in his forearm. A team looking for an affordable fourth or fifth starter (e.g. Twins, Astros, Guardians) could be intrigued. Falter is currently on the injured list due to tendinitis in his triceps but should be back before long. He’s posted a 4.08 ERA in 17 starts (90 1/3 innings) while fanning 16.7% of his opponents against a 7.7% walk rate. He’s out of minor league options but controlled another four seasons beyond the 2024 campaign. Martin Perez tossed six shutout innings today but did so while issuing five walks and only lowered his ERA to 5.20 in the process. He’s earning $8MM, which makes it hard to see him bringing back a bat of note.
In terms of less-established options, the Pirates have names like Quinn Priester, Mike Burrows and Braxton Ashcraft to peddle. Priester has gotten some MLB experience, but the former top prospect has yet to establish himself as a core rotation piece. Burrows and Ashcraft haven’t yet debuted. The former only just returned from Tommy John surgery performed last April. He’s slowly moving up the minor league ladder on a rehab assignment. The latter has had a breakout season between Double-A and Triple-A.
The Pirates surely don’t want to deplete their stock of arms too greatly, but in an ideal world, top prospect Bubba Chandler will claim a rotation spot by 2025. At that point, there’s a notable glut of arms with only one rotation spot truly open. Even if Chandler needs more time or gets hurt, Pittsburgh would still have him, Priester, Falter, Ashcraft, Burrows, Luis Ortiz and Johan Oviedo (recovering from offseason Tommy John surgery) as long-term rotation options behind Skenes, Jones and Keller.
In the bullpen, Chapman is back to his excessively wild ways. He’s fanned a mammoth 36.6% of his opponents but also issued walks at a woeful 19.5% clip. To Chapman’s credit, he’s been better in that regard after a shaky April/May showing. Over the past two months, he’s sitting on a 3.43 ERA, 35.6% strikeout rate and 13.3% walk rate. That’s still too many free passes, but it’s more in line with some past marks from Chapman, who has frequently been able to overcome poor command because of his blistering velocity and knack for missing bats. Overall, Chapman sports a 3.93 ERA on the season. He’s being paid $10.5MM, and the Pirates still owe him about $3.72MM as of this writing. He’s a free agent at season’s end.
Both Bednar and especially Holderman would come with greater appeal. Bednar has long frequented the pages of MLBTR in past trade deadlines and offseasons. Clubs throughout the league have targeted the Pittsburgh-area native since he established himself with his hometown club, but a deal has never come together. Now, Bednar is struggling through a career-worst season, with a 4.98 ERA in 34 1/3 innings. The shaky ERA seems tied largely to a spike in homer-to-flyball rate; from 2021-23, only 6.6% of Bednar’s fly balls became homers. This year, he’s nearly doubled that, sitting at 12.2%. Bednar is also allowing more fly balls than ever (50%), making the timing of that spike most unwelcome.
Still, there’s plenty of track record with Bednar, who from ’21-’23 posted a 2.25 ERA with 61 saves and elite strikeout and walk rates. He’s earning $4.51MM this season and is controllable through the 2026 campaign.
The 28-year-old Holderman would be difficult to trade. He’s not yet arbitration-eligible, though he will be this season as a Super Two player. Holderman is controlled four more years, all the way through 2028, and has delivered 36 2/3 innings of 1.72 ERA ball this season, fanning 28.8% of his opponents against a 10.9% walk rate. Moving on from a controllable leverage reliever of that ilk isn’t easy, though the Bucs could consider it a nifty piece of business to acquire Holderman from the Mets in exchange for Daniel Vogelbach (back in 2022) and then trade him for a more impactful bat just two years later. And with so many arms in the system behind Skenes, Keller and Jones, some of those in-house options are going to wind up in the bullpen.
Trades of Holderman and Bednar seem like a long shot, particularly since the latter would be selling low on a popular hometown All-Star. That said, the Bucs do have a large stock of arms from which to deal. Moving an established reliever/starter for a bat could open the door for any number of young, promising in-house replacements, while a more conventional swap might simply see them trade some of those prospects for immediate offensive help — ideally a bat controlled for multiple years beyond the current season.
bucsfan0004
The Pirates arent trading a key bullpen piece for a rental bat. I’m sure theyre kicking the tires around the ass end of a first base platoon, Justin Turner or the likes. I wonder if the Rockies would eat 75% of Kris Bryant’s salary… would love to have that guy for a few years for pennies on the dollar
hiflew
I would personally fly to Denver and pack his bags for him if that deal were to take place. I might even give him a piggyback ride all the way to the airport.
Card AG
If they were to tear a bullpen guy it wouldn’t be for a rental bat. Nobody said they’d do that
YourDreamGM
They could get creative and trade a pen arm. More arms available than bats. Probably love to dump Chapman remaining salary. Probably want a more reliable arm.
letsgooakland123
Brent Rooker! 750k salary
PiratesFan1981
@bucs fan
There was a rumor today that said Bednar to Baltimore for prospect Mayo.
TheMan 3
I don’t see Bednar being traded at least not until the end of the season at the earliest
PiratesFan1981
@TheMan I am not suggesting by any means they trade Bednar. But hearing that, it’s some hope Cherington is looking at deals right now. On one way, I would love to have Mayo in Pittsburgh. He would give the Pirates that much needed 1B guy who would be controlled for 6 years and within their timeline to be competitive. Offensively, it could give the Pirates that boost over long term.
But dealing Bednar, that is a tough thing to do since the Pirates haven’t had a legit closer since Mark Melconan. There is no closer in the waiting right now. I like to see more on holderman or Cam before coming to the conclusion they can lock down the 9th regularly. Both can be dominant or then horrible in clutch moments. With the Pirates fighting for at least a wild card right now, I wouldn’t push a Bednar trade.
TheMan 3
I didn’t think you were advocating for a Bednar trade, @PiratesFan1981 but the idea does sound intriguing.
The other thing is Bednar’s current popularity in the community as he participates in Pirates Charity events with Nutting himself
I realize that isn’t a baseball reference but his presence is something of importance
Being the local kid and all
User 1404051815
Interesting. Although he’s struggled at times, trading the local kid would surprise me. Then again, I’m naive
Maybe they see Mlodzinski’s progress as a reason he can be dealt. But please, ship Chapman somewhere, too. Anywhere
Robertowannabe1
Chapman has been lights out from the end of May until now except for the game against the Mets. Why so anxious to dump him?
User 1404051815
Are you joking? Lights out? Do you watch Pirates games?
Having two closers is a luxury a .500 team never needed. Waste of millions.
Chapman is often more concerned with his state downs than throwing strikes
Robertowannabe1
Watch every game. Yeah he had an ugly stretch earlier but has been solid in 18 of 19 appearances gave up 4 runs in those 18 games. I only move him if they get a really solid return with no rentals in a deal that includes Chapman plus another piece or pieces. You seem to be happy if they could just dump him.
User 1404051815
I hear you. No. They spent $10M. They should get something in return.
YourDreamGM
I love a Bednar trade. Only if it’s fair value. A starting pitcher or position player for a guy who pitches 1 inning 2 maybe 3 times a week. Trade 10 to 30 guys and get 2 relievers of lesser value. Tons of closers out there that just need to opportunity.
He is well liked and great community guy. But it isn’t a smart move to pay him and he will be a free agent fairly soon. Small market rule #1 extend or trade.
YourDreamGM
Champman hasn’t been light’s out. Been much better than his awful April May but not closer material. Really not setup material.
Mendoza Line 215
Chapman has been setting up all year on a winning team.
Even in his best years he walked a lot of batters.
But how many can throw 103?
Bednar is not going anywhere.Cherington is smart enough to know that not everyone can close even if they are good relief pitchers.Why trade a very good closer when you finally have a winning team?Trade him for suspects?I don’t think so.Plus he is a candidate to be extended.
Closers are like kickers in football.They are not sufficiently respected but they win you games.
O'sSayCanYouSee
@PiratesFan1981
Baltimore says no.
Mayo for Jones sounds right.
User 1404051815
Laughable. Another O’s fan who forgets where they were a few years ago
TheMan 3
the fantasy of trading Jones is one that should be left in comic books
He isn’t going anywhere
O'sSayCanYouSee
@tiredolddude — …another Pirates fan who forgot where they were a few years ago…and are still there.
TheMan 3
no Pirate fan forgets where this team was 5 years ago but we have learned that trading away top prospects for ready major league players isn’t always a good idea
And I believe this organization will agree
User 1404051815
Wow. Hurts. What’s next? Your dad is stronger than mine? Guess it’s typical of moronic Baltimore sports fans
dcahen
O’sSay – well, we already know if the O’s & Pirates were to meet in the WS, it’d be Pirates in 7. Been there, done that.
O'sSayCanYouSee
Geez, y’all are pretty feisty, huh? Guess I must have really hit a nerve.
Please, continue offering your 93rd best SP for our top bats. I guess yuz need the warm fuzzy feeling since yuz don’t get it from winning.
(1979…man that was Ages ago…just like the Orioles last WS in 1983. I mean, “We are Family” is a disco song .. whatever happened to Disco/Pirates)
((There, I can be snarky too…I was more interested in relating to legacy Franchises that have eaten to much crow for decades because of cheap ownership, and willful mismanagement, but I can do the other thing too 🙂 ))
User 1404051815
Yeah, some of us were around for ‘71, some for ‘79. Some of us are Steelers fans and enjoy having won 7 of the last 8 against Baltimore.
Snarky, but wish to discuss cheap ownership. Yeah, that explains the original “Jones for Mayo” quip. Now that the Pirates have the looks of an elite starting staff, let’s see if we can irritate their fans
I’m gonna go watch The Wire and have some laughs now. Pardon me
YourDreamGM
Bryant has 4 more years left so you would be very fortunate to have him for a few of those years.
Mendoza Line 215
Bryant has been a hot mess in Colorado where he went because they gave him the most money.
TheMan 3
Bryant can’t seem to stay healthy and would become just another failed trade that undoubtedly haunts this franchise for the remainder of his contract
Failed trades have historically become unforgivable anchors that would prevent Nutting from approving additional multi year contracts for more deserving players
Goku the Knowledgable One
Great ideas
ckc12537
Astros-Pirates trade incoming? I won’t speculate on the pieces but pleaseeeeeee
TheMan 3
it could be Pirates and anyone who offers what Cherington wants, and I see nothing that the Astros would offer to compete a deal.
BC isn’t Huntington, he won’t just give valuable assets away for a rental
ckc12537
Jake Meyers, Joey Loperfido, Chas McCormick, Jacob Melton
TheMan 3
The Bucs already have enough players that can’t produce
ckc12537
ok you know everything mr baseball expert.
User 1404051815
What do the Astros need these days, ckc? Not real familiar with them or the guys you listed
TheMan 3
I know what the Pirates need and what their current players have done this year
Example, they are at the bottom of the league in runs scored but rank second in most strikeouts
YourDreamGM
Pirates should trade with anyone. Cherington is like me and just wants to win trades so anything can happen.
TheMan 3
If Cherington really wanted to win, Andy Haines would have never been hired to be the hitting coach
Mendoza Line 215
OR fired within two years but maybe he follows BC’s philosophy on hitting.
HalosHeavenJJ
Taylor Ward, Kevin Pillar, and Luis Rengifo are ready to roll.
Would be so sweet to add Aschraft or Harrington. And be able to root for the former Halos after they leave.
TheMan 3
considering that Pillar has said he will retire after this season, it’s doubtful Cherington would trade good pitching prospects that would include him in a trade
But I can see a Priester for Ward trade
HalosHeavenJJ
Pillar is a throw in.
TheMan 3
a throw in that still requires a spot on the roster
YourDreamGM
Pillar will get a 30 to 40 guy on his own. Teenager in DR or low A. Raw as heck but high ceiling. Not a throw in.
If I could only trade for 2 players 1 is Winker 2 is Pillar. Cherington isn’t smart enough to have interns read mlbtr but if he was he would be like shut up dream. They are so obvious fits. Have more value to Pirates than any team in baseball.
bigdaddyk
No way do they trade Priester for Ward. Ward Will fetch a guy like Riley no one in the top 15 prospects
shortstop
Ward + Rengifo to the Pirates makes a lot of sense to me.
holecamels35
Screw it, just trade for Trout. MLB would explode. I actually wonder what a hypothetical trade would look like? He probably does not have positive value at this point.
I’m joking, but honestly wondering what a trade would look like for fun.
User 1404051815
Dream says their drafting of Griffin IS the next Trout. Strong words. Hope he’s right
Heard the real Trout left his rehab game after 2 innings yesterday
YourDreamGM
@tired. Not exactly. Angels drafted 2 Griffins in round 1. One became Mike Trout the other became Jo Adell. Griffin is going to run fast, hit the ball hard, throw ball hard. All comes down to how often he hits the ball. And cue dreadful music….. Pirates development.
YourDreamGM
Depends how much salary they eat. With Nutting a lot. With his medical issue I wouldn’t touch him. He has more marketing and pr value to the Angels than baseball value. If they are going to pay his salary they might as well keep him. 1 team hall of fame face of franchise has pr value.
YourDreamGM
I don’t believe they would trade Ashcraft Harrington for those Angel players. They aren’t untouchable. Especially Harrington. But if you are parting with upper tier prospects it likely would be for impact players. Weak platoons and utility will bring back quantity not quality. If Ashcraft is traded for those 3 then Cherington is certain he is a reliever. Harrington is much more possible as I can see a #4 starter if he doesn’t progress fully.
Mike Adamson
Pirates trade Bednar or Holderman it’s a dumb trade. Maybe Falter or Priester? Chapman? Jazz seems to be a big rumor but I expect someone like Ward!
YourDreamGM
A guy who pitches 2 or 3 innings a week for a guy who takes 25 at bats is dumb? I don’t think so. Relievers are like nfl running backs to me.
Mendoza Line 215
But closers are called closers for a reason.
The good ones make a whole lot more money than relievers.
YourDreamGM
They’re the best relievers but still just relievers.
I’m not shopping Bednar but if another team wants to get stupid trade him. I don’t anticipate him being traded.
Mike Adamson
The Pirates have given a bunch of games away when Bednar or Chapman weren’t on their games! Both are important but for our team we can have both by trading prospects
alwaysgo4two
Holderman would be difficult to trade? That has several meanings. One.. no one wants him, doubt that.
Two…they’d want a ton for him
Three…they really don’t want to give him up.
I’m guessing a combination of 2 and 3.
YourDreamGM
No a soon to be free agent and would need to be replaced. If they win the trade they do it. Then have to replace him.
TheMan 3
I agree Mike. Cherington might listen to offers for both Holderman and Bednar but it’s highly unlikely either will be traded
Giving up the tail end of your bullpen for a hitter doesn’t matter any sense
Then you would have to replace them
DarkSide830
Falter for Rodolfo Castro who says no.
TheMan 3
the Bucs already had Castro and they dumped him for a valid reason
Mendoza Line 215
Dark Side-Castro called me and said no,then said that your pen name befits your persona!
Plus he said that it would be Deja vu all over again!
Robertowannabe1
Lol! Last year there were lots of Pirates fans who were complaining. No one is complaining now. Good trade by GMBC.
Mendoza Line 215
Castro has not even made the Phillies team this year.
Old York
But Paul Skenes might bring in a haul.
Buccoprojectory
Old york…this is the second time you mentioned trading skenes. ARE YOU ON MEDS???? DRUG PROBLEM????
Mendoza Line 215
Bucco-Young York was a fine poster.
He may be trying to pull our chain now that he has aged.
I hope so at least or you might be onto something.
YourDreamGM
Literally an entire farm system. Only thing more valuable than Skenes baseball value is his sales value.
hiflew
I wouldn’t mind seeing a deal surrounding Brendan Rodgers and Bailey Falter. The Rockies could use a young starter especially if they are looking to trade Gomber and/or Quantrill. Second base for the Pirates could definitely use an upgrade.
TheMan 3
Mike Gonzalez is their 2nd baseman of the present and future. This is only his first full season in the majors
clutch2222
Nick Gonzalez was called up on May 11th and has 39 RBIs since then. Plays good defense and is batting .263. He’s a rookie and he is only getting better.
Pirates need an upgrade at 2nd? Nice try Russian bot or troll living in mommy’s basement
User 1404051815
I don’t know that he’s a Russian bot or troll but agree with your thinking. It took them a season and a half to look at all of their middle infield prospects and when one finally shows promise, it’s time to trade him?
hiflew
Damn dude. Tone it down a bit. I don’t follow the Pirates. All I saw was the 97 OPS+ and the under .300 OBP on the guy. I didn’t realize he was the second coming of Robbie Alomar. My apologies for having an opinion that differs from yours comrade.
TheMan 3
Gonzalez isn’t the second coming of any former second baseman but what he is, a former BC #1 draft pick who finally figured out major league pitching in his first full season in the majors, has a good eye, has power potential, his well with runners in scoring position and is a very solid defender with a good arm
YourDreamGM
Basically Rodgers but younger and more promising. Zero upgrade.
Mendoza Line 215
Hiflew- Some Pirate fans are sensitive about Gonzalez because he is a class act and a fine fielder who hit very well his first month and even since has been clutch in the late innings with several walkoffs.
You’re a good poster but you didn’t not know that Nick is basically the sum total of the Pirates hitting development system which is a sore point for most veteran posters on this site.
YourDreamGM
Nick taught himself to hit. So far Pirates have developed 0 hitters. Well since Reynolds.
Prospectnvstr
hiflew: Since you readily
hiflew
I have no problem with this comment being cut off because I have never read anything really even worth reading following the words “Since you readily…” Thank you for saving me a little time today.
Mendoza Line 215
Hiflew-It definitely could but Ryne Sandburg is retired.
Dice 66
Gonzales? What you been watching? Go back to liquor cabinet? 2nd fine!
C Yards Jeff
Mountcastle and Holderman centerpieces of multi player deal between the Birds and Bucs?
One GM has history of position player high draft picks, the other pitchers. Talk it up fellas.
User 1404051815
This makes the most sense. Please, take Chapman. I’d help him pack
YourDreamGM
Mountcastle looks to get too expensive for what he is in arbitration. Better fit for NY CA team.
Dice 66
Love to see a deal between the two!
wvsteve
I don’t think the Bucs trade anything of significance for a rental. I seriously doubt Chandler or Johnson get traded either. Could see Perez or Marco going though. Ortiz is their 3rd best starter with Jones out and Falter is a BC success story so if he goes it won’t be till off season
TheMan 3
Falter reached his previous high in innings pitched already and while he’s done well, his last few starts before getting hurt his pitches were being hammered
I wouldn’t object to trading him though
User 1404051815
Agree 100%. Nice that every once in a while Marco or Martin throw a nice 5-innings and get the “A+ signing” crowd puffing their chests out
I’d rather see them stand pat than send ANY prospect out
The O’s are willing to deal those two? Rookie available? Sure. Inquire. But don’t get played for any of your promising kids
.500 may earn a WC berth. They can get close to or beyond that as is
TheMan 3
can they include Haines in any deal?
Collectively in today’s game they had 5 hits
User 1404051815
*Rooker available?….
Mendoza Line 215
Marco has pitched fine.Keep him as the young pitchers are hitting their limits.
Give Perez away for $ savings.
Need hitters.Rooker from A’s the best although Paul will point out the strikeouts.
Mountcastle and Mullins useful from Baltimore.See if Ashcroft can be taken by A’s and Solemeto to O’s.
Send Paul’s favorite player Taylor to O’s as part of the deal.
Either one of these trades would help the Pirates and show that they want to win this year.Don’t need both because of roster limitations.
Many Pirate fans want to see this because tomorrow is never promised and progress can be stalled.
User 1404051815
Taylor. Solometo. Perez. Gonzalez. On the next train tomorrow if the price is right. Same with Chapman. No idea what your fascination with Marco is. He’s the kind of pitcher that will get lit up down the stretch. Repeatedly
But Ashcraft? Better be a good stick in return
Mendoza Line 215
No fascination with Marco.They got him for nothing.He has pitched well in four starts.I like pitchers that pitch well.
I have no idea why you hate Priester and Chapman so much.
Ashcraft would almost certainly be necessary to get Rooker who would provide the home run power that Rowdy is now showing.The Pirates need that very much.
Buctober 2
You definitely don’t trade Solometo at his lowest value. He was a top 100 prospect before the season and is only 21 years old. Let him bounce back next season.
Marco is a good pitcher and has a long track record of being a very good number 4 type starter in a good rotation. I don’t know why you think he stinks, it’s not like he’s young. He’s been good for a lot of years at this point and has pitched very well with the Pirates. If you’re trading Marco, it better be for a very good bat since he has an additional year of control if the team picks up his option.
I wouldn’t trade Chapman either unless it’s for a very good bat. He’s be excellent for a long stretch now. He appears to be well over his issues he had earlier this season. Perez and Taylor don’t have any value. Might as well keep them for depth and move Perez to the bullpen and have Taylor as a defensive replacement and pinch runner.
User 1404051815
Late inning relievers are supposed to throw strikes. They’re supposed to get outs and avoid putting game-tying or winning runners on base
Chapman almost always puts himself in trouble
Priester has had one superb outing in Milwaukee
Ashcraft for Rooker? Deal
Buctober 2
Chapman has had a borderline HOF career walking a ton of guys. You know why? Because he also strikes out an insane amount of people and hardly gives up any runs (which is the name of the game). He might be frustrating at times, but he’s a great reliever.
Priester is still only 23, which is kind of crazy to think about. I’d be okay with trading him, but the Pirates might grow to regret it.
Rooker has a great bat, but the problem is that he’s a terrible defensive player. He’s essentially strictly a DH. So he’d be taking at-bats away from Cutch, which helps the team because he’s better than Cutch. But, it isn’t addressing your biggest weaknesses. If you acquire Rooker you have to pair that acquisition with another outfielder that can actually play the field regularly.
TheMan 3
I don’t care about strikeouts when the hitter counters with getting on base and scoring runs
Reynolds does his share of striking outs but he gets hits, has power and drives in runs
Players like Michael A Taylor does none of what Reynolds does, except striking out more often than not
User 1404051815
Thanks Buctober, a well stated rationale. Unlike some of the teams Chapman has pitched for, this one has difficulty scoring runs. Lose the lead late and it’s problematic. And again, he’s a luxury they never needed
I don’t know enough about Rooker but sounds a lot like the reason bringing Josh Bell back makes little sense. Then again, this is the team that told Henry Davis to go out and play some right field. A lifelong catcher. What could go wrong?
User 1404051815
I dunno about that. He walked two in his inning of relief today. Don’t care if it’s 1-0 or 5-0. Throw strikes
I’ll defer to both you and Mendoza about Marco. Classic junk ball pitcher. But in an era of 95+ mph guys maybe there’s a place.
You’re essentially saying they should stand pat unless they get flooded with a deal, which I agree with
Someone mentioned media here and in this town, where it’s Steelers every day, 365 days a year, knee jerk reactions about “bringing in bats” should come as no surprise.
YourDreamGM
They can get Rooker without Ashcraft. Quantity trades are all the rage. It will be a lot of quality in that quantity. And maybe even straight quality. Just not Ashcraft tier quality. But if they see too much reliever risk he could be gone. He has risk. I don’t think it’s enough to want to trade him but they might. And A’s have more than just Rooker so 2 players makes trading him easier.
YourDreamGM
Solometo value might not go up. If someone thinks he has value dump him. He was overrated by prospect ranking sites forever. Guy doesn’t sniff the top 100. Doesn’t sniff top 200. He needs more mph or better changeup or he is toast. Like lefty specialist reliever toast.
YourDreamGM
Is Rooker that bad defensively? Have you seen him a lot? Seriously I don’t watch A’s games so have no clue. And I think oaa uzr suck. I have a much better formula but it’s still not as good ole fashioned scouting.
Mendoza Line 215
Tired- I agree with you on Chapman in that as someone mentioned in another article that he is like Mitch Williams in that he is always in trouble.That has been the way that he has always been,I do admit that one needs to turn the tv off and hope for the best.
Priester may be coming around and my guess is that he takes Perez’s spot next week until Jones comes back.As Bob Prince would say Perez is always walking through raindrops and they need the spot for the lefty relief pitcher coming back from the 60 day IL.Remember that it took Keller four years to become a good pitcher and Priester does not have much more than half a year.
They would have to add to get Rooker but losing Ashcraftwould also open up a 40 man spot which they need to do on a regular basis.
Mendoza Line 215
Buc-Good post but how do you know that Solemeto is not a bust and would get nothing for him going forward?
Plus,how many starting pitchers do the Pirates really need?
Mendoza Line 215
Buc- You are right on Rooker although I think that he played first in college so he may be able to learn to be decent there.
Cutch would have to play RF some.Plus,he is getting injury prone and will not last forever.
They dearly need the power.I would not give up too much for him because of his limitations.
But they dearly need the power.
Mendoza Line 215
Tired- They need to do something.BC is very conservative as Nutting is but sometimes you need to extend yourself.
No 3 young players for 1 over the hill veteran deals.
But they need to show that they want to win and are willing to take chances,
And I am not saying that Marco is the second coming of Whitey Ford or even Harvey Haddix But this type of pitcher is undervalued in today’s game of three outcomes.Yuck.
Buctober 2
Mendoza, Solometo could very well be a bust. But, at only 21 years old with the success he already had prior, I think you give him a chance to bounce back. He already had success in AA as a 20 year old, so my guess is that his arm was tired and that’s why they shut him down. Hopefully he doesn’t need any sort of surgery, but the lost velocity probably scares some people anyways, so you wouldn’t get anything of value in a trade at this point.
Did Rooker play First Base in college? I’m still okay acquiring Rooker, just not playing him everyday in the outfield. So he’d take at-bats away from Cutch (and maybe Tellez if he can play First Base against lefties).
I put this in another thread, but I’ll leave it here as well. Have a friend that’s an A’s fan and watches most of the games and he says that Rooker is “almost unplayable” in the outfield. I wouldn’t mind him playing some RF at PNC Park, but if he can play First Base that would make me feel better about acquiring him. If he doesn’t cost much, you don’t pass up that bat. But, I think there are better options out there that fit the roster better.
YourDreamGM
Marco hasn’t given up more than 2 runs in any start so how is that every once in awhile? More like every single time.
User 1404051815
You must’ve missed the Phillies game last week
YourDreamGM
You must have. 2 runs allowed. His worst game but still just 2 runs.
YourDreamGM
If I wanted to puff my chest out I would talk about Tim Hill and his 1 something era. Or how I said Rowdy is good and about to get it going and absolutely should not be released. Or my love of Joey Bart when aquired. Marco is towards the bottom of my puffing list. But definitely on it. And Perez is off the the list. Command hasn’t been there since returning from injury. But he was good in April May. And he could find it again but won’t be puffing unless he does. I think he is a great dare I say A+ salary dump.
User 1404051815
Credit where it’s due. You look like a genius this year. But I’m not sold on Martin and Marco just yet
YourDreamGM
Unless Jones Falter are toast Perez should be salary dumped. Heck even trade Marco for a fair trade. Playoff starters are Skenes Keller Jones and Ortiz Falter determine by matchup and the other goes to pen. Priester is your injury replacement pen arm. Ashcraft Bubba if injury nightmare happens. Maybe Burrows. Maybe lower their innings and have them audition in September for pens arms.
User 1404051815
In a battle for the wild card however, do you think they throw caution to the wind and forget about placing limits on Skenes and Jones? Yeah, nice rotation for three games. But they have to get there first
YourDreamGM
Skenes had his limits already. 1 inning spring training. 1 inning then 2 inmings minor leagues. They should have waited until June to call him up if his innings weren’t in line. Jones is fine as well. He wasn’t but the injury was a blessing or created to rest him. Lots of rest. Slow long minor league build up 1 inning then 2 then 3. No rush to get him back until his innings are back on track. If they get a lefty bat for right field and center fielder they should have enough hitting to get Skenes some runs so you can take him out after 5 or 6 innings.
wvsteve
Bucs starting rotation is in as good of shape then anybody’s. With Jones at least 10 days away their are still 7 deep when falter comes back. Ortiz and Priester are pitching better than they ever had. Wouldn’t be opposed to trading Falter either.
bigdaddyk
Definitely think they will move chapmen. I don’t know if they move Gonzalez because Skenes innings limit is coming up.
We need 2 OF 1 under contract for next season
User 1404051815
Agreed but you’re not going to get the kind of sticks they need right now, unless they’re willing to deal a lot of prospects. Best shot is free agency after the season and we know they won’t spend. Shame
Trouble is very few teams are out of it at present
bigdaddyk
Chapmen and Perez come off the books plus taylor thats 22 million they can use to get an impact bat in FA. Not sure theres a real impact bat on the trade market Roberts and Jazz are often injured. Winker Ward aren’t worth big time prospects. I would do a mullens chapmen swap.
User 1404051815
Yeah, I get all that but to me, they need two sticks next season. No, I’m not talking about taking a run at Soto-like big timers but it shouldn’t be the bottom tier, either
Agree about Mullins for this season although whether he can propel them next level is a real stretch. Same with Rooker or Robert. The O’s deal for Mountcastle even works
The problem here is that they have so few legitimate hitters. You’d like to see Reynolds or even Cruz see better pitches but do any of these names make the lineup more troublesome for opposing pitchers?
TheMan 3
who would want Taylor? My goodness he’s horrible at the plate unless striking out is a good stat
I do believe if any pitcher is traded it will be Chapmsn, and only because of his salary
TheMan 3
I could also see Suwinski being included in a trade. He needs to go someplace where the real hitting coach can expose his power potential. He certainly isn’t getting it here
And take Taylor and Palacios along for the ride
You’re right, Tired, they only currently have a few legitimate hitters
That’s pathetic
User 1404051815
I’m again betting that Suwinski and Davis become more consistent somewhere else.
This love affair Cherington has with his player development people is striking. And that includes Haines. Imagine doing such work and maintaining your job
Mendoza Line 215
Tired- That by far is Cherington’s biggest weakness.He is loyal to people who are not doing their job well.
Or is that how he is instructing them to do?
Mendoza Line 215
Paul- I hope that they keep Suwinski and Davis as hitters but as we all have been saying for years the hitting philosophy has to change.
I would have liked that done two years ago to see if these guys can improve and how much.
They would also be selling low on both.I think that both have promise.
YourDreamGM
Winker Ward won’t cost big time prospects. High upside like to keep prospects but not big time ones.
TheMan 3
I agree, Mendoza, but I’m not sure either will improve as long as Haines is the hitting coach
Jack took a huge step backwards this year after Haines tried to make him a contact hitter
TheMan 3
I agree Mendoza but as long as Haines is the hitting coach, neither will ever fulfill their potential
TheMan 3
exactly, tired, which is why I will stick with my prediction
Cherington will talk a good game about acquiring players but when the deadline comes, he’ll be dumpster diving for the leftovers that no one else wanted
bigdaddyk
Now if Tampa doesn’t want to pay Azoreana I would move Ashcraft for him.
Mendoza Line 215
He dumpster dives when it comes to money but some of these hitters have a couple of controllable years.left and he has plenty of minor league pitchers to trade.
TheMan 3
Yes, under the leadership of BC, they do have several players of controllable years left, but how do you build a team around the likes of Palacios, Triolo and Joe just to name a few?
Palacios is best coming off the bench and isn’t an everyday player, Triolo has sorely regressed from last year and Joe is a situational hitter
They have too many holes to fill to become a winning team
YourDreamGM
Skenes innings limit shouldn’t be coming up. Unless Pirates front office is idiots and well they use innings instead of workload so they are idiots.
Buccoprojectory
On June 30, Detroit Tigers pitcher Shelby Miller hit Ward in the helmet with a fastball at 93 miles per hour (150 km/h). Ward remained on the field after the incident but began slumping in the two weeks after, batting .140 with a .376 OPS in 47 plate appearances.[48] Wikipedia
This injury has affected Ward badly. He’s also had steel plates inserted in his facial areas.
I don’t think it would be wise to trade for him
On the other hand it seems the pirates turned down a trade with the orioles today. Bernard for their 3rd best prospect. Colby Mayo. Who’s 6’5 230 and a 1b/3b. Mostly 3b. His stats are awesome. I might have thought a little more on this trade.
YourDreamGM
The fact they were willing to trade him for Bednar tells you what they think of him. Probably a good no trade. It’s much harder for well ran teams to make trades.
I Believe We Can Win
Definitely feels like Orioles and Bucs line up here
Bucs have logjam of SP
Orioles have log jam of hitters
Skenes is untouchable but if you could pry Kjerstad away from the Orioles maybe you offer Jones and a reliever or some type of deal like that. Bucs get a long term answer in the OF and Orioles get pitching.
User 1404051815
Jones is about as untouchable as Skenes in my book. No way
Chandler? No way
I love these names being bandied about. You’d think fans believe Huntington is still the GM
Mendoza Line 215
Huntington had one bad trade and too many point that one as being representative..
How did that Reynolds for Cutch trade work out?
Huntington’s problem was the same one that Cherington has.
User 1404051815
You’re misconstruing my thoughts on Huntington. The Cutch-Walker glory years didn’t happen by themselves. Not like the guy forgot how to run a franchise
I hated the Archer trade from day 1. Never saw the need to trade a guy capable of 30 homers and a daily player for a guy who might get you 4 wins down the stretch. And that was even before Glasnow and Baz
But like Cherington, I have no doubt Huntington had constraints placed on him from above. I don’t condone decimating your farm system to try to get a WC back then—often a one and done proposition even if you got it—but perhaps he was trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat
holecamels35
For what it’s worth, I believe Walker and Cutch were both drafted by Littlefield.
User 1404051815
Yes but I was referring to putting the team around them
YourDreamGM
I hated Archer trade. Obviously my analytics told me what direction Archer was headed. I think NH valued him too high. But here’s the real reason. They probably knew of Meadows mental health. He was a overrated prospect. The 5 tools that outlets hyped up were never there. They new Glasnow had elite stuff but they couldn’t teach him control. Searge was a great pitching coach for veteran reclamations but awful for kids. He wasn’t happening in Pittsburgh. Meadows only great year was 2019 juiced ball. He wasn’t anything tp regret. Baz was the real prize. But lets face it they were never developing him. But from a trade aspect if you have 2 3 million you can get a Baz in any draft. So there’s the prospect side of it. Meadows wasnt anything special. They couldn’t fix Glasnow and Baz was never going to be developed. If they traded them for Verlander Scherzer or anyone who was actually good you would love that trade. No reason to hate it though.
Attendance was down after Cole Cutch trades. The possible $ from making playoffs would have been huge and that’s why the went for it. Good call. Just the over valued Archer.
Best trade in Pirates history. Huntington Hurdle Searge all needed to go.
User 1404051815
Hurdle was hurting, pardon the pun
The guy was the right guy at the right time with the right disposition
Doubt they understood Meadows’ issues at that point. Look at his homer production the next couple years. Anxiety manifests itself in many different ways but is always a reaction the subconscious has to stress, five minutes ago or five days ago. You couldn’t see it in Meadows as much as you couldn’t see it in a kid sitting in your classroom
Agree about Searage and very odd that he had this wall with young pitchers. Glasnow was upper 90’s on the gun but had control troubles. Throwing him into this deal was outrageous.
Here’s the thing: I truly believe they thought they were set in the OF without Meadows and in terms of pitching without a control problem. Having watched Archer pitch over the years and adding to that thinking, this was a severe miscalculation by Huntington.
Again, all Archer was going to give you was 5 wins down the stretch—at the very best.
Meanwhile, you gave up three studs
Again. A failure of scouting and player development
Mendoza Line 215
If you recall they had just swept the Brewers in five games and euphoria was beginning to grow.Someone made the decision to try to recapture the glory three year period since many of those players were traded in 2016.They were following their rationale of trading before free agency in 2016.
Was the Archer trade NH decision or from someone from above?We will never know.
Just like Haines and BC and the hitting philosophy?
Mendoza Line 215
I did not think that they needed to add the PTBNL which turned out a week later to be Baz.NH did say when they made the trade that the PTBNL would hurt.
I do not blame NH for Meadows and Glasgow but he was fleeced in giving up Baz which I doubt that he really needed to do as the Rays would have been happy with just the two because they knew something that NH did not.
That Archer could very well be a bust.
Injuries hurt him,but his overvalue was just on NH too.
What hurt NH the most though was his draft selections and his development.
Mendoza Line 215
I think that Clint was worn out and he had had that hip problem which did not help.
Nutting did him and NH a favor by paying them for two years to do nothing.
TheMan 3
The best trade in Pirates history was sending Al Oliver to Texas for pitcher and future HOFER, Bert Blyleven in 1978
Blylevin anchored the pitching staff that brought us the last WS championship in 1979
User 1404051815
Nope. The Van Slyke trade. One of my all time favorite players
Mendoza Line 215
Paul- You and Tired are old guys!
I am glad that I am not!
The Oliver trade was about as high ranking as I have ever seen the Pirates do inasmuch as Blyleven is a HOF’er and Scoops may someday get there.
Think about it.He was good enough to be a fine first baseman and be switched to CF and do a good job there when Robertson came up.
A perfect example of a trade benefitting both teams.
Mendoza Line 215
They gave up Tony Pena but did get Spanky too who was an underrated catcher.
The only problem that I had with Van Slyke was the same one that I had with Bonilla and Bonds.
They all stunk in the playoffs.
YourDreamGM
Looks like post times fake news to me. Looking quickly Andy was above average in 92. Slightly below in 91. Bonds average 90 all star 92. Bonilla good in 91.
wvsteve
Jones isn’t going anywhere. Bucs can have O’s second best hitter in off season for reasonable FA trade
YourDreamGM
Kjerstad isn’t close to being as valuable as Jones.
When Pirates have pitching available they aren’t talking about Skenes Jones Keller. Probably not Ortiz. Maybe Priester. Might want to sell high on Falter and avoid risk. Marco as a rental could be available. Perez is for sure available.
I Believe We Can Win
Dealing lesser pieces nets lesser return. Ortiz Priester Falter aren’t going to bring back much or anywhere close to a long term cost controlled hitter that’s a significant improvement over what the pirates have currently.
You’ll get some mid tier offers of prospects and have to hope you hit. Not a single one of those is bringing back a top 100 prospect.
I mentioned kjerstad cause I think he has the most upside given in limited 100 at bats he’s crushed mlb pitching same way he’s crushed minors pitching. Definitely think he’s gonna be a star if he can stay healthy. But orioles have enough hitters better than what the pirates have to pry jones away without touching the core if pirates are willing to listen.
bigdaddyk
They just need to improve on the margins for this season to get a wc spot. Next year they can go for the division title
YourDreamGM
Pirates aren’t looking for a top 100 prospect. They are trying to make the playoffs. Perez is a pure salary dump whatever they get is great.
Jones is untouchable unless someone wants to get crazy. He isn’t going anywhere.
Kjerstad has flaws and if O’s couldn’t fix the Pirates certainly can’t. They might still be interested. He is a above average player easily. It would be for Falter Priester Gonzales. And Pirates would include prospects, or Chapman, or Suwinski.
Just telling you like it is. I am not one of those crazy fans that says give me all of your good players for my bad ones. I don’t want Kjerstad. I want platoon rentals end of career Pillar Winker. Pirates this decade are Skenes Jones Keller. That’s their core. They will build around them. You don’t see elite rookie pitchers traded because you build around that and the price for them is massive.
YourDreamGM
Next year will be wild card as well. East West with 200 300 million teams likely get 1 2. Central winner will play wild card round more times than not.
TheMan 3
the old “ next year “ line. We hear it every year but the problem is, next year never happens
User 1404051815
You don’t go far enough with the core
Agree about the three pitchers
Imagine putting big time sticks around Reynolds, Cruz and Nick. Completely different team.
For an analogy, take Harper and Trae out of the Phillies lineup
You continually think small here where a GM with a supportive owner pounces on the moment
Instead, you have Cherington being constrained with names here that aren’t going to produce lots of runs and results. They’re not going to make your core here more dangerous
That’s the point
Your goal is the playoffs. That’s nice
But what they have already in place is good enough to go for it with a couple of bigger pieces
Shame that Nutting fails to see it
YourDreamGM
What big names do you want? Don’t give me 300 million guys. A Pirates owner can’t afford those free agents.
Here’s names I seen from Pirates fans. Hoskins, remember him? .213 batting average. Awful contract. Rowdy immensely better. Bellinger. Awful contract. He’s a better defensive Joe. Andrew Benintendi Pirates fans wanted him big time. Cherington drafted him! .199 batting average. Got what 70 million? Awful contract.
You yourself may have wanted some of these guys. You might be able to add more names I forgot.
1. The success rate on free agents is low. The more expensive the worse it gets. 2. The Pirates can’t afford free agents. They can sign a 30 40 50 million dollars guy every few years. They have to be certain it’s a good value because they literally can’t afford to miss.
So who do you want?
I want Winker and Pillar. You won’t and you don’t believe how much of a difference those 2 dumpster dive rentals would improve this team. I want another reliever at least. 2 or 3 if they trade Chapman. A utility player would be nice. I wouldn’t mind Mark Canha either. What if Reynolds or Joe gets hurt? Canha is Connor Joe but better outfielder. He can play 1b as well. Pham works.
Would love Bleday Rooker. But I could get 3 rentals for cheaper than 1 of those guys.
Ward is just Joe but better defense. Nice to have for 2 more years but doesn’t help a ton this year.
Jazz isn’t a good cf. He is a 700 ops hitter. If Jack is back that’s 800 ops and Pillar is 1000 ops and still a good defender from what little I have seen.
Robert I dunno about his health. Not a good cf. I see risk and too expensive.
I do like Mullens and Mountcastle. They are capable of better than what they have been in 2024.
None of these are Harper Turner. Only way the Pirates get a Harper Turner is passing on a safer college bat and drafting Connor Griffin.
User 1404051815
I’ll have to wait to see the free agent list this winter
Really, I don’t like anyone where trades are concerned for this season. Why trade when you’re playing .500 ball and that may be all it takes to earn a WC berth?
Your points about free agents are well taken and yet, adding two for next season is exactly what they need to truly “go for it”
And again, it’s not that I “don’t want” or “don’t like” the names you keep throwing out there but rather, I don’t think they make enough of a difference.
Stand pat.
steelerbravenation
Bubba Chandler, Quinn Priester & Henry Davis for Luis Robert
Buctober 2
Chandler isn’t getting traded. Cherington already essentially said he’s untouchable, and all of Pittsburgh media has echoed that.
Best pitching prospect the Pirates would probably consider trading is Ashcraft or Harrington. Both should be MLB ready next season.
Robertowannabe1
Absolute no. He has no arm. We all saw how bad his arm was when the Bucs ran on him the whole series agains the Sox before the break. Not worth losing Bubba for.
Mendoza Line 215
Robert is overrated and his contract soon kicks in around $20 M per year.
I do not trust any from the White Sox except Crochet who the Pirates do not need.
User 1404051815
Rooker makes the most sense as well as a couple guys who’ve shown power that are under control at this juncture. And that’s the key—at this time
I like to dream, pardon the pun
I’d like to see them get close this year and Nutting have an epiphany to spend some money in the off season
bigdaddyk
Rooker only works if they are putting cutch in RF because Rooker is a DH only
User 1404051815
Yeah. That’s what I’m reading. And I don’t think Cutch can handle a lot of games there anymore
YourDreamGM
I have no idea if Rooker can play outfield. I would guess he can. People are just looking at worthless analytics sites. I don’t think too many are watching A’s games. You have to be pretty awful to not be able to handle rf PNC. At worst he can play half the games in rf.
bigdaddyk
If he could play in the field you would think that the Oakland would put him there to improve his trade value like Jazz going back to 2nd for the Marlins. We already have a negative cf and LF defensively
YourDreamGM
He does play outfield some. Palacios is weak, Joe is poor. This team actually put Palacios in cf. Jack plays there. Won’t even notice Rooker in rf unless he is Henry Davis awful. Maybe Rooker is bad but I have a hard time believing he is worse than Olivares. My guess Rooker is a upgrade.
Buctober 2
So I have a good friend that’s an A’s fan and watches most of the games. His direct quote was, “He’s (Rooker) almost unplayable in the outfield.”. He insists he should have learned First Base and made himself competent there.
Take that however you want haha. IMO Olivares is almost unplayable in the outfield, but we played him there so who knows. You could probably get away with only starting him at PNC to still give Cutch at-bats, but I don’t think you want to run him out there regularly. That was my take away. He’s such an upgrade with the bat that I’d be okay taking some AB’s away from Cutch and also playing him in the outfield two or three days per week (at home).
Buctober 2
Don’t get cute if you’re the Pirates. If Robert’s asking price is too high, go get Winker and Canha. If Chisholm’s price is surprisingly low, I’d be okay with that as well, but I’d still go after Winker or Canha. Utilize the pitching depth, but don’t get rid of anyone you expect to play a crucial role down the stretch.
YourDreamGM
It’s not or it’s just Winker. They need a lefty bat. Another right bat would be nice. If they get a cf Jack can move to corner.
spirit of truth
Austin Hays for Paul Skenes sounds good to me.
BuccoFan1956
Trade a few prospects if you can get a bat under control. Everybody talks prospects, prospects, prospects, but there’s a time you have to look at your MLB team & how to improve it. That’s why you’ve accumulated these prospects, to help your team now. Rooker would be nice, they need a masher. Jazz would be OK if price is right & he can stay healthy. Get the fan base excited & don’t waste the great starting pitching they have. Skenes just lost, pitched first 8 innings & gave up 2 hits & 1 run. Losing games like this is really gonna cost you.
YourDreamGM
They have a deep enough farm they can trade and not cause much damage. They absolutely should.
YourDreamGM
Perez Cards perfect match. 30 something lefty rental Happ Lester Quintana. Never seen a better match. Same division doesn’t factor in at all.
Mendoza Line 215
Perez is one pitcher who I would give away to a Central division NL team so the Pirates can face him.
He has over a 1.5 whip which is not good.
He was fine in April but not since.
YourDreamGM
Cards will work their magic on him but if you don’t trade him they will just go out and get a better starter. If you can’t beat Perez you don’t need to be in the playoffs.
TheMan 3
the problem with that scenario is that the Pirates have a tendency of losing to even the worst pitchers because they have don’t have enough consistent hitters
Opposing pitchers for example who have high eras, they can’t ever seem to take advantage and instead score very few runs
This team needs a supporting cast that can hit and not strike out with impunity
User 1404051815
Exactly. And the guys who are apparently available fit here for all the wrong reasons
Bucco79
These chances come along for the Pirates once every 10-20 years. I wish they would just go for it. Sell the entire farm if it gives us a chance to be a legit WC contender. Go after Vlad, Winker, Ward, Mason Miller. I don’t care if it takes all of their top ten prospects. At least I’d know that they tried to win once upon a time.
YourDreamGM
Pirates are set up to contend for the rest of this decade. If they do things right they will keep it going into the 2030s. Pirates aren’t going for a few years window. Fans seen 20 years of losing but that was because they had absolute idiots running the team. Ask me about Cherington on July 31st.
2024 2025 2026 2027 2028 2029 the Pirates are not a winning team. Not a wild card contender. Not a playoff team. They are a world series contender.
What if they extend Skenes? What if they extend Keller? He loves it here. Or Jones? Or Bubba? 2030 2031 2032 the black and gold mike trout will still be under team control. Won’t take much to keep the train running.
User 1404051815
Let’s again define what compete means
As is and with the farm system devoid of big bats, sure, wild card runs every year
But when will media finally wake up from their Steelers stupor to understand that this IS an owner with a billion dollar company who should capitalize on what the rebuild has put into place
You have stud pitchers
You have Reynolds
Cruz and Gonzales will only improve offensively
Maybe Hayes and Endy will come along
Open the da*n checkbook and get a couple of big timers here
Let’s see how far it goes
And yeah, the fans deserve it
YourDreamGM
No check book to open. If the Pirates do nothing different than they have been doing their payroll will be 100 110 million. Keller Hayes Reynolds contracts probably go up every year. Maybe not Hayes. But the big spending will be arbitration. Just keeping what they have now will almost max out their payroll. Skenes next year will make 800 900 grand whatever then 2026 7 million? 2027 12 million 2028 20 million 2029 25 or 30 million. Gonzales making 700 grand now 800 next year but few years 4 million 8 million 12 million I dunno depends how well they do. Cruz same thing but more than Gonzales. Jack same. Endy same..Davis same. You get it. Everyone is making 700 grand now and soon it will be 7 million or 17 million. Small market teams in better situation than Pittsburgh don’t spend more than 120 130 million. There’s no check book to open. The checks are going to be going to Skenes Jones Cruz Gonzales Ortiz Priester.
bigdaddyk
Lets be real keller is getting traded in 2 years when he 31 and 32 making 18 and 20 million a year
Bucco79
Love your optimism, I just don’t see it. Heard the same stuff 10 years ago with Cole, Taillon, Glasnow, Meadows and so on. Keller, Skenes, Cruz, will be gone in 3-4 years when they are each making 20M+. Hope I’m wrong but history has shown us no reason to believe that these guys will be here when it’s time to pay them. The opportunity is now to go for their first World Series in 45 years. Time to cash in.
YourDreamGM
10 years ago was a good run. 2012 should have been a good year but they collapse. 2013 14 15 obviously good years. 2016 should have been. Even I didn’t predict all of Cole Lirano Locke completely falling off a cliff. 2017 front office failed. They believed in their young pitching too much. 2018 the reloaded smart move and if they traded for a legit ace instead of Archer they would have done better.
Can’t compare to now though because Cherington is simply better. They can actually develop pitching now. It’s not optimism it’s analytics. They are going to be good the rest of the decade. Only ? Is how good.
User 1404051815
Agree but their problem is identifying who fits
Their stud starting three pitchers are awesome. Then you have 8-10 guys between here and the minors to comprise the rest of the rotation, some currently on the farm and some coming back from injury/surgery
It took them a season and a half to literally go through all of their middle infielders to see who “has it” and who doesn’t. And Termarr is still at AA
Dream says they have a lot of power hitters at the lower levels. When do they get here and can they produce at mlb level?
Is Endy really the catcher of the future?
To me, they’re in a tough situation. Can’t figure out whom to trade. And they have an owner who won’t go after what they really need, a couple big time free agents this winter
YourDreamGM
Well I totally took a dump on your opening up the check book dreams. They are opening but like I said it won’t be for new players.
Sorry but the power at lower levels is raw and needs development. Will be lucky if 1 all star comes from it. Lucky. It’s the Pirates so can easily get Nutting!!! And if they buy at this trade deadline or next some of that talent will be gone!!! Every winter they can get more but come on now. How many latin stars have the Pirates developed of late? Have to go back to Marte. And he was a nice player but not a superstar. You got Griffin who won’t be here until 2027 2028 and the A ball kids the same. DR kids 2029. TJ still can have 20 some hrs.
Good news #JackIsBack there’s 20 30 hrs. If he’s back. He doesn’t look completely lost and depressed anymore so it’s a huge improvement.
BuccoFan1956
I believe they have 8 SP at MLB level not counting Ashcroft, Harrington, Chandler & Solemeto in minors. Trade 1 of Falter, Gonzales or Perez in a deal along with anyone in minors except Chandler & lower level position player & get a BAT under control. Even if it doesn’t pan out this year you still have that bat under control. Give the fans something to get excited about
rond-2
Call up Jake Lamb from Indy
YourDreamGM
#RebuildOver
#JackIsBack
#Black&GoldTrout
TheMan 3
when Jack begins to return to realizing his power potential, I will agree he’s back but his average continues to hover around .175 and has become more of a singles threat than a home run threat but that’s because our illustrious hitting coach prefers him to be a contact hitter than a legitimate power hitter
YourDreamGM
Hot off the press from July 24th
“We believe in the group,” Cherington said. “We believe we’ve shown throughout the course of the season and also recently that we’re capable of playing really good baseball and getting on a run. Believe this group, without any changes, can still play even better in August and September given the amount of young players and opportunity young players have to continue to improve. Still feel we have players in the Minor Leagues who can help. I believe in this group. I believe we can play well enough and win enough games to get in.
“And, yes, I believe we have an obligation and a responsibility at this time of year to try and improve the team, give the team an even better chance.”
I’m not getting my hopes up for Rooker Robert Bleday.
Buctober 2
Honestly, I feel the same way as Cherington lol.
Add Winker and another part-time/bench bat and call it a day. If Hayes and Suwinski figure it out it’s a team built for success in the postseason at that point. Even without those two figuring it out it would be a team built to make the postseason.
TheMan 3
“ we believe in this group” is just double speak for I ( Cherington) will be scraping the bottom of the dumpster for more hitters that won’t help this team reach the playoffs
But if he adds a player, he can effectively convince the rubes that he did his best and that the gullible be happy
joew
Someone mentioned Kris Bryant. Almost makes sense depending on the Rockies motivation. Get talent or salary dump? I would think either lol.
Kris would be a pretty big risk at that salary. If the pirates can get the Rockies to off set the salary by a lot then you at least listen.
User 1404051815
But where do you play him? If DH is your answer, you’re taking ABs away from Cutch.
Salary dumps at this time of season are problematic. The very reason teams are looking to dump big contracts is due in large to these big contract guys not performing
And Bryant’s love affair with going on IR should raise red flags
TheMan 3
I agree, Tired. Bryant is a luxury we can’t afford even if the Rockies pick up most of his salary
He’s injury prone while we need healthy players to get us to the playoffs, whether it’s this year or next year
joew
Assuming First base or RF if he is able. if not then.. well never mind 🙂
He hasn’t been healthy the past couple years but when he was he was well above average. catch that ‘magic’ of being near average .. yay! Then you also get off season trade bait if it does happen.
…. but yeah Rockies would need to foot the bill.
TheMan 3
Apparently the Dodgers and the Yankees have interest on signing free agent, 44 year old pitcher Rich Hill
If there’s any truth to this, my question is if either team spoke with Cherington and is the GM asking for too much to trade from the team’s pitching depth?
I mean, Rich Hill?
User 1404051815
I’m hoping they allow other teams to fall all over themselves for the names I’m seeing. Again, if .500 is all it’s going to apparently take to get a WC berth, why do anything?
This is a make or break stretch coming up against teams that really *are* going for it. It’s going to be interesting
YourDreamGM
Rich Hill don’t cost prospects. He was fine last year. 2 months and he can go all out not worried about lasting entire season.
YourDreamGM
Trade market is dead. I thought after today we would get a few trades this weekend. From what I heard many bubble teams are waiting for after their weekend series to decide what to do. Monday Tuesday is going to be crazy. I got 12 teams selling so 11 12 13 depends on weekend results. They have lots to sell but not enough so going to see some mkb for mlb trades. Might see some action this weekend. Maybe not from Cherington though unless he is selling. Read a quote from him that seems like he is just waiting back to see what falls in his lap. Right move.
TheMan 3
double speak for he’s just waiting to see what players are released or dfa into his lap
TheMan 3
well, Cherington did make a roster move today by signing former Angels utility player to a minor league contract
Jose Rojas
that just might be the only significant addition ( cough cough) for this team before the end of the deadline
User 1404051815
A+ signing. (sorry Dream. Couldn’t resist)
TheMan 3
Rojas will fit right in with this organization. Doesn’t draw walks, strikes out often and average well below the Mendoza line.
no offense to our friend here by the same name
YourDreamGM
Minor league depth. They can now trade Bae, a failed prospect and a lotto ticket for a rental bat. Could mean Bae is on the move. Or just a stand alone depth move. Maybe someone is hurt in AAA.
Buctober 2
Bae is going to be on the MLB roster the next few days while Reynolds is out. Plus, they traded Celestino. That’s why Rojas was signed.
Bae isn’t a failed prospect and he’s better right now than Palacios, so I think he has a spot on the roster next season (if he’s not traded).
User 1404051815
Bae looks suspiciously like a guy who rips minor league pitching but can’t get master MLB pitching. I want the kid to succeed, as I do the team. But the Pirates seem to have a great many players who fall into this category. Only Gonzales has made the adjustments
Buctober 2
I’m going to beat a dead horse here, but it’s Andy Haines.
Gonzales has actually been terrible after his hot start. His OPS is under .600 over the last month, and under .500 over the last two weeks. It’s the Andy Haines effect on players.
I think Bae needs to ignore the coaching staff the next time he’s called up and just do what he does well. Normally you’d be okay with a guy with his speed to be a slap hitter to an extent, but when he’s at his best in the minors he’s pulling the ball a lot and driving it to the gaps. Haines and Shelton tried to make him a slap, singles hitter and it made him worse all around.
Bae is back to driving the ball in AAA (.505 Slugging and good exit velocity numbers), and that’s why he’s having success. He has sneaky power that the coaching staff, for whatever reason, doesn’t want him to utilize. It’s maddening. The team is run by idiots. If the Pirates trade him I think they’ll really regret it when he becomes a .280+ hitter with 30+ doubles, 10+ triples, and 10+ homeruns almost immediately.
User 1404051815
Yeah, agree. I suspect that Suwinski, Davis, Peguero and maybe Bae are going to land somewhere else and quite likely have decent careers
Gonzales dropped the Haines ideas. So did Rowdy. And Reynolds. But the front office here seems to see some benefit in the appearance of permanence within the coaching staff. So you have Shelton and his “ good uncle” persona and coaches like Haines who have the kids stagnating at best
Whatever happened to “the cornerstone of the franchise” Ke’Bryan Hayes ?