The Pirates announced this morning that they’ve placed right-hander Jared Jones on the 15-day IL with a right lat strain. Jones was pulled from his start against the Cardinals last night after just 78 pitches last night after throwing five innings of one-run ball, and manager Derek Shelton told reporters (including Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) that the quick hook was due to the issue.
“He’s got a little right lat strain going on,” Shelton said (as relayed by Hiles). “So we decided to get him out.”
Pittsburgh has long been candid about their plans to carefully manage the workload of their young pitching this season, a group that includes rookie fireballers Jones and Skenes. The young duo have been a revelation at the top of the Pirates rotation as Jones has pitched to an excellent 3.56 ERA with a 26.4% strikeout rate in sixteen starts, while Skenes has struck out 34.1% of opponents with a 2.06 ERA across nine starts. That process of managing workload has already begun for Jones, as the righty’s last appearance prior to last night’s game was all the way back on June 22. Given the fact that the club was already carefully managing Jones’s workload, it’s hardly a surprise that the club would be cautious and sit the righty down rather than have him pitch through a lat problem, even if it proves to be as minor as both Shelton and Jones himself have indicated that it’s expected to be.
A specific timetable for Jones’s return has not yet been discussed publicly, although the Pirates will need to sort out a replacement for the righty in the rotation regardless of his IL stint’s length as the club will need a fifth starter on July 8 against the Mets. The club has called up outfielder Joshua Palacios to lengthen their bench mix for the time being but will need to figure out who will take the ball in Jones’s stead before then. Right-hander Braxton Ashcraft, the club’s #5 prospect per MLB.com, is already on the 40-man roster and has dominated the Double- and Triple-A levels for Pittsburgh this year with a 3.00 ERA and 25.9% strikeout rate in 69 innings but has made just three starts at the Triple-A level to this point.
If the Pirates want to take things slowly with Ashcraft, they could turn to a non-roster arm such as Jake Woodford, who pitched in the majors for the White Sox earlier this year and has looked good with a 2.08 ERA in three starts at Triple-A for the club since he joined the organization last month. Turning to Woodford (as well as other non-roster veterans currently in Triple-A such as Domingo German and Luis Cessa) would require the club to clear space on the 40-man roster, however.
Whoever the Pirates turn to in replacing Jones will be thrust into the club’s most competitive season in years. Pittsburgh has a decent 41-44 record that places them just three games out of the final NL playoff spot, and that respectable performance has led ownership to suggest that he and the front office will be aggressive in improving the club this summer. Much of that success has been thanks to the rotation, where Jones and Skenes have combined with Mitch Keller, Bailey Falter, and Martin Perez to deliver a combined ERA of 3.63 that ranks sixth among starting staffs around the league.
Seems like a precationary and workload thing. Jones said he felt fine after the game and could have went another inning if he needed to. He may only miss one, maybe two starts at the very most because of the All-Star break, so now would be the best time as ever to let him sit back and heal up. Plus with Marco nearing his return, Priester pitching well at Triple-A, Luis Ortiz getting stretched out, and Ashcraft also doing extremely well (and on the 40-man), the Pirates can weather the storm until after the ASB.
Priester always seems to pitch well at Indy, but he’s only good for at best 4 innings in the majors. Maybe Shelton can use him in a bullpen game
Now what about adding some players who can hit the ball? Like maybe a catcher because Grandal isn’t the answer
Delay would have been a better option
I’ve watched a lot of pro baseball in my life, everything from the independent level to the best Major League teams. Never have I seen a catcher have so much trouble and do as many dumb things behind the plate than Grandal. He’s almost guarenteed to have one “wtf” moment a game.
I agree, mlb1225. Grandal has a tendency of committing catcher interference, he has no arm to speak of and doesn’t always judge pop ups well in trying to catch it
Clueless Pittsburgh fans and media booed and made Hedges cry, yet the team so smart that they were able to win the world series traded for him and his entire full salary. Yet everyone is still catching experts lol.
You don’t have the read the entire articles, just the titles. Then I want to see if any of you jelly fish have the spine to type I just like to run my mouth even though I know absolutely nothing about baseball.
wkyc.com/video/sports/locked-on/lo-cleveland/ultim…
mlb.com/news/austin-hedges-clubhouse-presence-lead…
forbes.com/sites/berniepleskoff/2024/05/02/clevela…
msn.com/en-us/sports/other/it-s-huge-to-have-him-b…
si.com/mlb/rangers/news/texas-rangers-backup-catch…
mlb.com/news/austin-hedges-praised-by-guardians-te…
You all wanted Cherington fired for signing this guy. Then again for not releasing him. Then Shelton fired for not benching him.
Sounds to me like he was the perfect guy for a young team, young pitching staff, and 2 young top 100 prospect catchers. But what do I know. Cleveland seems to be doing pretty well with him.
I presume that your reference to “you all” and “jelly fish” are referring only to those who degraded Hedges last year.
Surely you are not drawing an equivalent parallel to the wonderful catcher Grendal who the Pirates signed last spring,are you?
Moreover, the “you all” line is laughable. I don’t think anyone wanted the GM or Manager fired over the Hedges signing.
And I don’t know who said you ‘like to run your mouth’ or ‘know nothing about baseball’. On the contrary, I enjoy the conversations and your insights
But count me among the “jellyfish” who think it’s time for the GM to move on thanks to his poor drafting and worse player development.
A bit overly defensive today, Dream. I’ll always take issue with the “A+ signing” logic and can assure you I have the spine to say so
And the Cherington line of great signings is demonstrated again thanks to Dennis Santana
and the phenomenal performance by the pathetic offense is yet another example of how awful the coaching by Andy Haines has cost the Pirates of being competitive
I gotta get you all fired up. Mlb and theman got me muted so I got no one else to talk to. Thought you seen and even appreciated Mark Madden. Guess I read things wrong. My bad. You guys been MIA so thought I needed to spice things up keep you active. Make it so you had to reply. Need you to show up so the man has someone to talk to. I just seen he’s been talking to himself for 3 days. I been pretty boring for a long stretch. After dealing with man3 compulsive lying for a few days it brought my Madden out in me. But go check forums, Twitter, old articles, old games to listen to the boos. Hedges didn’t have many fans. You all covers at least 90 percent of fans. I ain’t going to fact check you guys, you know how you felt. You might not have had your pitch forks and torches out as much as others but I would be surprised if you appreciated Hedges. If you did I will gladly read your praise and praise you myself. Read those headlines. You know me. I am not just a numbers guy but the numbers guy. And yet I have to say there is something there with game planning, leadership, and handling a pitching staff. It has value. More than most admit.
Dream was referring to me, Tired of his comment that he doesn’t know anything about baseball but he took that out of context when I said it on another thread and conversation
I always enjoy our back and forth banter but when he made accusations of my mental state, I muted him
I won’t stand for personal attacks, this isn’t the place for them
I never had a feeling about Hedges one way or the other, really
And yeah, I do appreciate Madden’s columns.
I dunno. Nothing in sports which is worth getting fired up over. Opinions are like, uh, noses.
Grandpal is no Hedges. He has some senior moments like soft tossing a ball while not pay attention to base runners. Stinks at throwing out runners. Not the blocker hedges was.
From all accounts he is a great game planner and pitchers love throwing to him. He is a better pitch framer than 90 some percent of all catchers. Is that worth 2 million or whatever he is being paid? I would say so. Problem is that is a backup catcher. He should be a back up. Mentoring Davis. Not Grandpals fault though. You don’t tell your manager no when the put you in the lineup.
Here’s the even more impressive thing. One if the few reasons why you don’t join mlb and man in muting me. Well that and because if you take away me it would be a lot more dead around here. Think about how many times you read my comments. It’s a large percentage of your mlbtr entertainment. So for the thinking fan I got this tid bit to drop on you. You ready? I think it deserves it’s own paragraph.
Grandpal strikes out less than 70 some percent of every mlb player. Not just catchers. Hits the ball harder than 70 some percent of players. So why is his average worse than Hedges? Because it’s only 100 and some at bats. He’s been incredibly unlucky. Now I am not say he should be hitting 300 but if he had those same numbers over 2 3 4 years his average would start with a 2 instead of a 1. Now don’t be go giving me Grandpal is dreams favorite player or A+ garbage. I get the A+ for player signings I gave a C on. Just saying Grandpal isn’t as awful as you think. He’s just simply bad lol hahaha.
Dream-Hedges had never been a hitter even as good as me!
To stay in the ML’s that long you have to be a very fine catcher.
And I hope that you do not think that Grandal is anywhere near that now.I think that he may be amazed to have and to have kept a ML job.
I also think it abominable for the fans to have booed Hedges like they did.That should be kept for players who do not hustle.
Quite frankly I do not miss your and TheMan’s repartee.
And I cannot speak for Tired but we do not need any incentive to post on this site.
And if you consider some posters to at least be slightly negative I can assure you that we as long time fans of the Pirates mostly have a right to be that way because this organization is not run nearly as well as it should be.
I will proudly admit to being negative about this team and franchise. How is it possible not to be?
They have great pitching potential but lack any semblance of leadership and offensive ability
One thing they do often and quite well is striking out
Watching them swing ar pitches 3 feet off the plate or 2 feet away on an inside pitch, it’s a valid reason for the negativity
They managed 7 hits today in 10 innings with just 2 XBH.
If not for Reynolds solo homer they would have been shutout by a former reliever and a supporting pitching staff by the Cardinals
The supposed rebuild is over yet nothing of any significance has happened for a cause of celebration
No man3 I wasn’t referring to you. I was using the Pirates fan base in general. I am sure some people seen Hedges value. But vast majority didn’t. It’s not all about you. And yes I think compulsive liars who would keep sticking with a proven lie instead of admitting they are human and made a mistake have something wrong with them. Check Padres transactions. They traded Jack for Frazier. How can you say that it isn’t true it’s right there. You said Pirates were last in batting average, not true. Instead of admitting you were wrong or saying well not technically but close enough you said you meant in National League. Except in the same exact sentence you said they were last in slugging and they weren’t. Yet you couldn’t say you meant in NL because a NL team the Marlins were worse. In same sentence you said they struck out the 3rd most times. Why didn’t you use last there? That would have been true because the other 2 teams were American League teams. But you said 3rd most. I caught you in too many and you resorted to muting me instead of just admitting you are a human being and made a mistake. Even I make mistakes. It seemed you wanted JD Davis but soon as you said you didn’t I was like my bad and accepted you didn’t want him just like that. You on the other hand resort to claiming I want Jack starting over Joe when just the other day we had a detailed conversation about how I think Jack is primarily a cf until replacement and joe is the best rf option until replacement. Impossible by my thinking that Jack should start over Joe but you just keep hammering that lie. Ignoring that you kept talking to yourself for 2 or 3 days because the article was dead and you muted the only person who has talked to you in a week and kept making new comments you might not be mentally ill. At least nothing too serious. Unfortunately compulsive lying and being unable to admit your are wrong is common with people. I am just a hole especially when people push my buttons. I went extreme and being a dead article and not caring if you muted me I went all out hole on you. I would apologize but I don’t regret it and would probably do it again if anyone catches me on a bad day and continues lying to me and making false statements. If I kept going on about how you wanted JD Davis I would expect similar from you. You did call me a POS. But I didn’t. I said I misread your comment and that was the end of it. No idea why you can’t do the same.
I don’t get fired up. It’s all a show. I am not on Twitter Facebook Instagram tiktok YouTube whatever else there is. This is my time wasting entertainment. I don’t even try to push advanced analytics. I enjoy being right and others wrong. It’s kinda my thing. So I hope everyone sticks with average and era. Makes it so easy for me. Not mad at the man at all. I prefer being muted so I can say what I want and they can’t even make a come back. I don’t know or even think he has mental illness but I knew it would push his button. Incredibly immature conversation by 2 people who had too much free time having a bad day. He should though seriously run for president. He can stick with a proven lie and come up with the best false narratives I have ever seen. I was impressed. He should be selling a seminar or something on it. I think I even told him well done or something.
Obviously you don’t follow the sport much… Hedges was horrible and that’s being kind! As for your WS comment… the mighty Hedges was 0-1 and that was a strikeout! Negative effect on the Rangers.
Be as negative as you want. I am a proud American love the constitution etc. I gave you some article links. I gave you some information that many didn’t know about Grandal. If you don’t chance your opinion that is perfectly fine and expected. Most people believe what they want to believe. Refuse to see anything that says otherwise. Be as negative as you want. And there is plenty to be negative about. Other than my prodigy I don’t expect anyone to move on their stance. And even him it’s rare. But at the very least is it not an interesting read? You haven’t heard that information about Grandpal anywhere else am I right? Just food for thought. No reason to get positive. At best he is a passable backup catcher. And we have him starting in a lineup that is desperate for offense. If he was here last few years he would be amazing in helping the kids and helping secure the #1 pick. They should be trying to win right now and he should be catching once or twice a week.
You just aren’t capable of reading context. Your 0 for 1 strike out proves that. I just said they traded for him. Therefore they thought he was worth his salary. He could have went 0 for 200 with 200 strike outs and that would have been irrelevant.
Cherington gave up on Contrares who in 10 games with the Angels has an era of 3.20 and struck out 15 batters in 16 innings
Obviously, the likes of Santana is the better option
@TheMan3 You are missing out. You would have loved my joke at bottom of this article.
are you referring to the “lie” I said about the Bucs having the worst batting average in the national league?
I unmuted you so I could laugh at your ignorance and it was well worth the effort
Yet, your utter arrogance continues to shine
blah blah blah
You ridicule me for not letting an argument go and here you are, not letting an argument go.
And Frazier was traded for Jack and several others because it was the Pirates who were looking for a trade partner for Adam Frazier. They were looking to trade him while his value was at its peak
I never said Grandpal (nice naming) was awful. Never really paid much attention because the catcher position here has been woeful. But thanks
I don’t want your head to get too big but I like the community of posters on Pirates threads, with you, TheMan3 and Mendoza at the top of the heap. I like mlb’s insights although I often don’t agree with him. Can’t think of anyone worth muting
And you’re right. It’s all very entertaining
I don’t know that they gave up on Contreras. To me, there are guys like Davis and Suwinski (among others) who I can see leaving this organization and finding success elsewhere. Says a lot about their player development department
Well stated, Mendoza
It escapes people sometimes that we’re fans and want the team to do well. We root. The problem is, we’ve been around and have an understanding of the game. And we are pretty good judges of who has talent and who’s not the answer
Your rendering of the realities of a small market team some time ago was right on target. I do believe they pursued that path but failed to build a complete team. And if it’s obvious to us, it’s obvious to them, too
They’ve given 2/3rds of the outfield time to find itself as big leaguers. They haven’t. The same can be said about 1st
We like to think Nick is a stopgap before Termarr gets here, that Cruz is salvageable and that Hayes will hit
But now we get to see the direction that Nutting and Cherington are going to go
True believer types will look at anything as being a big positive. On the contrary, we’ve seen this movie before. Show us you’re committed, or shut up already and peddle your pierogi races
Dream- Nothing on this site gets me fired up since the arrogant Yankee and Dodger fans have left to pick on other worse teams.
I am too old and barely remember getting fired up over long legged redheads..
I also do not mute anyone as I would not know how to do so and would have no reason to do so as I pretty much get along with everyone.
I do occasionally think of mooting some as I grow tired of them.
Like Tired this is just a pasttime to me and I refrain from getting so involved that I end up wasting time on it.
You used all teams then flip flopped to NL only when I called you. Notice how you didn’t flip flop on the slugging I also called you out on because the marlins were even lower and it wouldn’t fit your flip flop so you completely ignored it even though it was in the same sentence. Also in the same sentence you had Pirates 3rd in strikeouts. You didn’t use NL only there even though I think they were actually last in NL but you used 3rd. You had a easy out. Could have said you got your stats mixed up. Could have said you used poor grammar and it came out different than what you thought. All passable excuses but no you choose to lie. One stat you used NL. One stat you used MLB and one was a flat out lie because they weren’t last in either. Anyone can see it. Jake lamb signing article from a week ago. No one will rock the boat to call you a liar and most don’t care to look. But you just keep on lying. I know you know you are a liar and that’s good enough for me. It’s not a big deal lots of people. Again anyone interested can see what you did. A normal person would just say you got me. Not you.
Can’t remember the last time I booed a ball player. Then again, I’m not the kind who applauds loudly, either. I’m Mr Milquetoast.
I liked Hedges if for no other reason, he was the first guy out of the dugout congratulating players for homers or whatever. Team player. Had heart.
You called me a liar and you can pretty much call me anything other than that I won’t care. I laid out the truth. Everyone can see. I just like living rent free in your head. Most people mute you and that’s it. They don’t unmute you to see what you are saying. I got no problem with you other than calling me a liar. I am reaching out a olive branch here. I gave you ways out. Excuses are right there. I don’t care at all if someone is a liar. I’d say majority of people are. Just won’t let someone call me one without defending myself.
Context of my comment was from the Padres perspective. Padres traded prospects for Frazier is the correct way to say it. But if I would have said it Frazier for prospects it wouldn’t have been a big deal. Everyone would know what trade I was talking about. Do you listen to yourself? You set up an entire gotcha question and you were wrong. But there was nothing to really be wrong about.
Just for the record you don’t know who initiated the trade. I don’t either. If you aren’t Cherington or Preller you don’t know. I asked you for a link and you failed to provide one so until you do I will say you don’t know. 2. Everyone team knew Frazier was available so why would Cherington call them to initiate a trade? Why would he call SD who has a better 2b Cronenworth? Would have been one of the last teams I would call. You have the trade chip, why call them and give up leverage? First one to make a offer loses. And teams usually call to verify a player is available for trade. It seems much more likely they called on Frazier than Cherington calling about 3 prospects. Been reported sox received 15 calls on Crochet. I can’t prove who called who on this trade but I can make a near certain educated guess.
You don’t have to admit you were wrong just stop calling me a liar. Forget it happened and moved on. How about we were both mistaken. Took things out of context. Late at night. Just got back from a coke party. And never mention it again. I am willing to give that a try. Or you can mute me. Either way I had my say and it’s done. After the weekend I won’t have time for it. Trade deadline at end of month. I am moving on. Should have already but you had me on mute and I feel well they can’t see what I am say so…. But my bad on that. Balls in your court.
I will get to you in a bit. Glad you like Grandpal. Not new material from me but glad you noticed. Read rest later.
Dream- As usual there is some logic to your response.
Maybe the pitchers do like him.Inasmuch as Davis was the alternative to the pitchers maybe Grandal shined.
And,as you say,he is just a C.
But if he was really any good at hitting,and not just unlucky,why didn’t he have more teams than the Pirates courting him and they signing him at the last minute for a very reasonable amount?
And,with all due respect,you are not the only poster on here who has good ideas and is sometimes entertaining.I think that there are numerous posters on here that often make more sense than what the Pirates do.
I believe I was replying to Mendoza because he mentioned the negative part. Fine you replied but I don’t believe I quoted you on Grandal awful. If I did my mistake. Probably was just a general statement. Might have just been a joke he ain’t awful he is just bad. Don’t remember, can’t find it now. If you make a deal of it I will look for it this weekend. Don’t remember quoting anyone on it though.
I like everyone. Even the man3. It’s just silly drama. It built up and it’s really nothing. If it was just a single random mistake I would just ignore it. I don’t usually go searching for something to nitpick about to someone who has given me a hard time. Like you idiot. They rank 23rd not 24th! Just let it slide or at worst gently correct them. But it was ongoing for days weeks months years. Not the 1st time he muted me. The other time was way sillier. Won’t talk about it because I offered out the olive branch and haven’t refreshed my browser to see if he accepted or muted me. This time I deserved to be muted. Like most debates discussion arguments it got a bit carried away. I am done with it. If he wants to keep talking about it that’s fine. Hopefully he chooses to move on. I talked about. He talked about. No one else is even interested in it and if someone was crazy enough to care they can go to the previous pirates article and well enjoy. Not much to see though unless you like a good heated debate well I think I usually do a great job and props to theman3 as well. No hard feelings from me. It entertained me so well done man3.
Like Mr Madden I think I am an aquired taste. I like to think it’s a bit of a love hate. Without me it’s just 3 old guys chewing on their towels yelling out the same thing. I find things are boring when everyone agrees and has same opinion on things. So I provide that villain you can all gang up on. The other side. In all fairness I bash the Pirates quite a bit. Just not as much as the rest do so I stand out. And some of you see this better than others and some of you understand later on but had some heated discussion before that point. I think generally speaking we are clear on that it’s not that I like Haines (I never wanted him hired and wanted him fired for at least over a year now) it’s I have little faith in them getting anyone that is going to make a drastic difference. By all means fire him right now. Is some unemployed hitting coach going to be the savior? Is Sheltie going to teach them to hit? Sounds to me he has the exact same philosophy. But all for finding out. And Rebuild is over. Old news but many took it as it was successful such a amazing rebuild. I just said it was over. All good and figured out but before it was figured out it gave you guys something to talk about right?
Like you liked the Grandpal I liked the chewing on towels. I don’t know what you guys look like but I picture Jack Lemon and Walter Matthau sitting in a lazyboy with a towel in their mouth. Good stuff.
I would say they gave up. He used to throw hard and had good spin. Was a alright starter for awhile. Always had a lot of reliever risk. If you asked me a year 2 3 4 ago what is he going to be if you had to pick I would have said a good reliever.
Here’s my old heard it a hundred times saying but for anyone who hasn’t. My beautiful 4k tv stops working. I can’t fix it. I put it out on the curb and you fix it and have a beautiful viewing experience. Good for you. The problem is they didn’t have a answer to fix him. So I am fine with losing him. But if someone else fixes him I am going to ask why couldn’t you fix him? That’s the problem.
I never said that they were 3rd to last in average, I said last but admitted they weren’t last in slugging
The problem with you, Dream, you project.
You simply can’t admit being wrong and when someone proves you wrong you project your own behavior onto others
Like calling them pathological liars
You should have been a politician
Mendoza definitely not the only one. Just the most famous one! Lol lol I kid. Sort of. Lol.
*unlucky,why didn’t he have more teams than the Pirates courting him” Short answer other teams are stupid. Why didn’t they sign Liriano Martin Freese Voquez Voglebach Anderson Quintana Velasquez Santana why didn’t pirates sign Santana lol. Maybe Pirates listen to me and have a huge advantage? Although I advised them to sign Rowdy AND Santana. Like they did last year with Choi AND Santana.
Grandpal didn’t have many places to go. Like when I said he should be better that’s like .200 average better. Not .300 average better. *I mentioned below his average July 4th end of day is .171 he has been incredibly unlucky so it should raise at some point if he survives the season without being dfa. But what is that? He can’t throw. Can’t run. It’s a backup catcher on a team with young pitching but isn’t ready to contend. There’s more than one catcher who fits that build. If the Pirates could have gotten Sanchez for 3 or 4 million they probably would have gone with him.
First off, I continue to post comments about this team because there’s very few articles written about them
Second, I never said that I was in favor of obtaining Davis
Third, yes I did make reference to my belief of you and lastly, you make a huge deal about my not having the ability to end a conversation yet here we are because you can’t either
And before I forget, you said that you defend the Constitution, good for you
I defended by serving my country in the military for 6 years. How many DD214s do you have ?
I have 2
Bro what are you talking about?
Austin Hedges is like 3rd string catcher for Cleveland and prob gonna get waived or dumped again
I never said that you said they were 3rd to last. If you did say that I would have been childish and said liar liar pants on fire they are 4th to last. I would have went all Colonel Sanders looks like momma is wrong again. The problem is in the same sentence you used different criteria for different data points without differentiating. It doesn’t make any sense to use NL only stats and all of MLB in the same sentence. After you been compulsively lying and calling me a liar when I wasn’t lying and setting me up for that gotcha question that ended up backfiring on you, well I was nitpicking everything you said. If anyone else said it I would be like last or 4th from last same thing. Its bad. And you never admitted to being wrong on the slugging until just now. You just went to I said last in NL average. Completely ignoring the slugging because you were wrong. And it’s fine to have beem wrong. Why wait 5 days to say it? Here’s your reply..
*as of today, at MLB.com, the Pirates team batting average is .227, last in the national league
shows that you aren’t as knowledgeable about baseball that you claim”
Nothing about slugging. Because they weren’t last in the NL in slugging. You couldn’t do a flip flop on it.
On July 1st you made this comment and I copied pasted your entire comment and all the rankings I am using are from July 1st. And here we go…
“On Cherington’s weekly radio program on the Fan, he said that the team’s improvement needs to come from within as he expects current players to get better
Which essentially means that the fantasy of trades to improve the team are closer to slim to none
As a team the Bucs are last in batting average and slugging and have the third most strikeouts by an offense
Another disappointing season by the buffoons who manage this franchise and who still think that long time, knowledgeable fans will buy into the nonsense that the likes of Haines and company have the ability of making them better and competitive”
Average
Pittsburgh 0.227
Oakland 0.221
Chi Sox 0.220
Seattle 0.218
Slugging
Pittsburgh 0.359
Miami. 0.350
Chi Sox 0.346
Strike outs the site I used only has strike outs per game but on July 1st Pittsburgh had 3rd most strike outs but 4th in strike outs per game.
So they had 4th lowest batting average but last in NL.
Weren’t last in Slugging in either MLB or NL. You just admitted you were wrong on that so it’s all cleared up.
Had 3rd most strike outs in MLB but most in NL.
3rd, last, mlb, nl, it’s all bad. If I made a big deal about this on itself then call me the nickname for Richard. By the time we got to this point I was looking to call out any lie I seen from you.
Nothing we can do about slugging they weren’t last in MLB or NL. But if you said they have the 3rd most strike outs and 4th lowest batting average that is correct. Or if you said the lowest batting average and most strikeouts in the NL that is correct. But you used one MLB stat and one NL stat and the slugging was just wrong.
That was the final battle of a long war.
Two man childs going at it refusing to admit defeat. With no audience. We both had our say. No one cares. I would say we take a break and go at it again in the future. Maybe try to make it to the All star break? But you go and give me the worst insult ever that I should be a politician. Even you have admit I am too intelligent and honest for that profession. That isn’t saying much. But still a low blow. Ouch. Can’t believe you went there. You could have said lawyer, used car salesman, owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
First off. “I continue to post comments” Yes I am well aware of this! I’ve tried to reach out the olive branch several times and drop it and move on and you just keep going and going. Mr Energizer Bunny.
Second. “I never said that I was in favor of obtaining Davis” Yes we established this already weeks ago. Don’t your remember? It was settled. Maybe you are the one who needs to be a politician?
Third. “you make a huge deal about my not having the ability to end a conversation yet here we are because you can’t either” I don’t remember making a huge deal. Maybe a misunderstanding? But yeah I can’t either! Agree! See First. You keep replying!
‘And before I forget” Yes! You ain’t kidding. Better hurry up because it doesn’t take long.
“you said that you defend the Constitution” I never said that.
“I defended by serving my country in the military for 6 years.” Oh man. Paul. For real. This isn’t fair. You play dirty. So far I been doing a standup routine. The roast of Paul. I so bad want to tell my joke, I actually got 2 for this one. In the code of comedy anything goes right? Well used to be that way. I can’t do it though. I appreciate our veterans too much. All I got is thank you for your service Paul. And next question isn’t fair either. What percentage of people have served and how many did 6 years? You know you got me there but that’s ok. Back to roast for the last one. Hope you have a good sense humor though. Actually a great one because I ain’t that funny. Calling Grandal Grandpal is the best I got. Again thank you.
“How many DD214s do you have ?
I have 2” Does your back hurt from them? My girlfriend is only a single D. Not sure what number. Complains about them causing her back to hurt. But she does have 2 of em just like you. I don’t have any myself though.
Thank you. Awesome crowd. I never performed at the mlbtr comment section before. Let’s face it who has? This is pretty crazy right? Mlb1225 analytics didn’t see this coming did they? But I had a great time. Hope you did as well. Would love to come back if you will have me. Get well soon Jared. Thank you for your service Paul. Hope that back isn’t bothering you too much.
Thanks for the update shawty. 3rd string in Cleveland is good enough for 1st string in Pittsburgh. He can replace Grandpal.
No. Tom Selleck. Just a bit younger and less Just for Men
Matthau and Lemon are the Grumpier Old Men gang. I don’t get the sense any of the regulars here are in that mold. Maybe Buuba/Projectory but I get his frustration. With everything
I initially enlisted for a 3 year service time, then re-enlisted for another 3 year term when the first term expired
I wanted to be stationed in Germany for my second term
A DD214 is an Honorable Discharge from the military. Having 2 indicates I served 2 enlistments
If you can’t figure it out by year FIVE it’s time to go.
I did very well serving in the military. Earned rank quickly, received several honors including a Commendation Medal and became a Battalion Commander’s personal driver for awhile in Germany
I could have easily made the military a career but I had other ambitions to tend to that wasn’t associated with the military
I am not in the Grumpier Old Men mold but would be if it got me a date with Ann Margret.
Sounds like you have a bad case if SHELDONITIS. YA KNOW BIG BANG THEORY.
The thing is that these forums are open for opinions,ideas,and debates.
All yo often people get all jacked off because someone doesn’t agree with them. It’s childish.
Anyway I agree with mlb baseballs comment on being a precautionary move by the pirates on Jones. He will be fine after the all star game.
As for grandPAL, I fint even know how he’s still on the team. Go with Bart and delay. Get Davis ready for next year as the regular catcher or rightfield. But please don’t screw with the kids head. Leave him in one position. Now it seems the pirates are great at developing pitchers. But regular position players not so good. I heard on the radio that prominent sources have said that the pirates have ruined Tremarr Thomas. Sad that they mess with these kids.
Hey man…I admit I’m grumpy lol…but in all reality…I’m so frustrated with the pirates, not because of the players. But because of the MORON. Anyway I’m glad you mentioned me in your post. Being grumpy isn’t all that bad. It works to my advantage when I’m telling off an idiot customer service rep.
At least you and I have something in common. Same age, following the buccos since 1966 and in general, deep down we love the pirates.
Have a great weekend my friend
They must have ruined Tremarr Thomas. I don’t even know who that is.
Hopefully the Sox or A’s are licking their chops with their plan to fully develop TT to his potential. He isn’t ruined. He has the bat speed, has pop. Already has elite approach. Just get the guy out of the Haines and into fruit of the loom.
Something something getting better with sugar than vinegar.
I never said any of that.
Gonzalez is close to coming back. Priester and ortiz could be a combined pen game. I fully expect Skenes to be next after the brewers start
The “A+ signings” of Martin and Marco are proving to be what we thought they were. These were just stopgaps until the kids arrived and guys healed. Neither is any help
I’ve seen enough of Priester to say the same
And 4 innings? Not sure he ever lasts that long except for blind squirrel scenarios
I like that Palacios has fire but he can’t turn around the offense. And truthfully, I’d rather see them play Bart than Grandal
But again, with only 4 or 5 teams truly out of it, just where are the bats going to come from? Despite what Dream says, they have little to offer for available players especially when contenders have more to offer
So that leaves salary dumps like what the Marlins will attempt with Bell, even opting to eat a great deal of it
More scrap for a team loaded with scrap
No, the Pirates should ride it out with what they have for better or worse. Then let’s see what Nutting is willing to do in helping a stellar pitching staff. Will he finally bring some sticks here and spend, or will it be more scrap?
Joke of an owner. Joke of a GM. Joke of a franchise
Perez is currently pitching a nice game, no earned runs over 7 innings but of course and in typical Pirates fashion, the hitting is pathetic
and not scoring enough runs to give him a win.
I choose all three, Tired
Everything about this franchise is a joke, maybe with the exception of the pitching. But you can’t expect to win games with just good pitching if you can’t score more runs than the opposing team
Sounds like you need a new sport to follow! Go Bucs!!
Sounds like you need to pull your head out of your nether regions
Yeah, he pitched well and nice to see that other teams of stupid baserunners after what Winn did in the 6th. Sheesh. Fundamentals
But show me Perez can give you a quality start more often than once every three times out
Of course Perez is pitching a good game. Be is a good pitcher. He was a A+ signing. Pirates fans negative overreaction theater see’s one bad game coming back from injury and look dream was wrong! Perez sucks! Dream was wrong! Gonzales was absolutely fantastic. Can’t predict injuries. At least not good enough. If he can come back fully healthy he should be good. Alarming injury but we will see.
I’ve been a Pirate fan since 1966 and probably Tired even longer
I can safely admit that this isn’t the worst offensive team Ive seen with this franchise but it’s certainly close
If you’re satisfied with mediocrity Dice66, you deserve to watch losers
I am not
Gonzalez wasn’t fantastic in his wildest wet dreams. Perez is a middling pitcher, at best. Nothing more
You have this strange tendency to lump critique in with the idea of being negative to everything the team does, whining old men
Perez has been up and down. Hardly an overreaction. Glad he pitched well today. Hope he continues. Consistency is all you want.
Perez is a journeyman pitcher. He’ll pitch a good game once in a while, but that doesn’t mean he’s good.
chances are probably pretty good that they will lose this game no matter how well the pitching is
garnering a paltry 5 hits through 9 innings won’t win you many games
But apparently some fans are satisfied with mediocrity
Grandal will be gone the next time that he lobs the ball back to the pitcher and the runner form third steals home.Or the 27 th time that he commits catcher’s interference.
Bell will not be traded for as Rowdy is hitting well now and actually chugged quite well going from first to third on a single to right field.
You don’t have to make things up like 1 out of 3 times out. You can just take a minute and look it up. I did it for you. 10 quality starts and 3 negative starts. I counted the game he left hurt as a quality start even though he didn’t make 5 innings odds says he would have. MLB uses 6 innings as a qualified quality start but most front offices use 5. I also counted a 4.1 innings star that his team let him down as he only gave up 2 earned runs but because of mistakes it cost him from going further. First start he only went 4.1 well because it was his first start and he walked a few guys. Gave up 1 run and Pirates won 7 to 2 or something. He didn’t go 5 innings which is front office standard. Didn’t go 6 which is needed for the official quality start but a open-minded person if given the choice between calling it quality or negative would say quality. It was so so mediocre alright but to keep things simple it’s quality or negative, good kr bad, no middle.
1 year 8 million. Let’s have a reality check. That ain’t buying you much in today’s sports. He’s been great compared to signing a Boras guy for 20 some million and them being so bad you are worried about them opting in for another year.
He’s an average, middling pitcher, Dream
That’s all
We can devolve into semantics all you like. There are a couple others that use meaningless analytics to prove points here. The same can be said for wording scrambles
Today was a good day. He had two good starts to begin the season, too
Agree with you about a Boras signing
Gonzalez has had a bad injury history the last few years.
Why do you think that Atlanta gave him up for nothing?
If you don’t think Perez was worth 1 year 8 million dollars then you don’t know much about pitching. Nothing wrong with that as many MLB front offices don’t either. If healthy he will be pitching in the mlb next year. He’s a journey man because the Rangers trades for and signed bigger better options. Journey man because the Pirates have Skenes Keller Jones Falter Ortiz Priester Ashcraft Burrows Chandler Solometo in the mix for next year. So yeah if you aren’t a ace you are going to bounce around. No one ever said he was a ace.
2.65 era. Thought you were a era guy. Not impressed? You want it under 2?!!!! He got hurt. And if it was his shoulder you can say well they should have seen it coming. But it wasn’t. If you believe it’s not luck but some people are actually injury prone fantasy then ok. Good luck with that but I won’t argue with you. But when healthy he looked fantastic and put up fantastic numbers. I don’t know if it’s possible for me to look any smarter but I hope he comes back healthy and stays healthy so I can have that chance. You must have dozed off and missed his starts though because he was impressive. I really enjoy someone who pitches vs throws and there is a difference.
Well done. Now that’s the guy I offered the assistant dream gm job too. You haven’t come all the way on how great a signing Perez is but you changed your original position. Being open minded is one of the most important things I look for. He’s not supposed to be amazing. If he was he would cost 30 40 million. But for 8 million he is surplus value. Unfortunately he got injured but even then he can still be worth his salary.
Atlanta gave up on him because they are trying to win a world series. Pirates are just trying to stick around. He was given away for free. I knew what he could do if healthy. If he didn’t throw a single pitch it was still a A+. A Pittsburgh team with Bob Nutting as a owner has to gamble. Other than drafting #1 how does a gm working for Bob Nutting get pitching? You can’t buy it. So you take a guy for free who’s arm is about to fall off but if it doesn’t he has the talent. A+ all day. And his shoulder was his problem. This is something different. And from all accounts he doesn’t need TJ so I am going to be positive and look forward to him coming back, blowing off the rust and doing well. If he is healthy I think he will do just that. Although he was really locked in before the injury. I don’t expect to see that missing this much time. But I hope he proves me wrong.
I know he’s not doing great, but I’d sure love to get Josh Bell at 1B .
Shouldn’t cost much either
Joe has really fallen apart lately and Rowdy is rowdy
So you’re essentially saying you’d like the right handed hitting version of Tellez
DH him and you bench Cutch who on this team is arguably still one of their best hitters
Can’t play Bell in RF. Slow afoot, slower reactions.
Yeah, Joe has come down to earth but at least the guy can play 1st or OF
But knowing this GM, it wouldn’t surprise me
Bell would definitely be an upgrade over Joe at this point
Joe had a great start, but has come down to earth lately. Can still play Joe or Cutch in RF with Bell at 1B.
Bell is a big 2nd half guy usually.
Just feel they need an upgrade at cleanup and would prefer Bells upside to guys like Tommy Pham and the likes.
Against LHP:
RF Joe
1B Bell
DH Cutch
Against RHP:
RF Cutch
1B Bell
DH Rowdy
Playing good defense is a requirement for the ability to win games but if you can’t score runs, what does it matter?
In 7 innings the Bucs have 4 hits
Is there an available hitting coach they could trade for?
Agree about the upgrade. Just don’t know that Bell or any salary dump candidate is it. Just more scrap. And not sure Cutch can play much RF anymore
Rowdy is batting .340 since the first of June, Joe has lost more than 50 points from his batting average since then
mlb1225 Not a Pirates fan but the first Jones post is what online commentary should be about. Well done…
in defense of those who went off topic about Jones, very few articles about the Pirates are posted on this website and the devoted fans jump at the opportunity to comment on this team
Thumbs up and A+ to that. Theman3 has been wanting to talk about the Pirates so bad he has literally been talking to himself for 3 days.
Palacios will fit right in with this lineup, an occasional hit and do his share of striking out
He can compete with Joe and Taylor
Is Palacios the left handed Edward Oliveras?
Or is Oliveras the right handed Palacios?
they are one in the same, Monkey’s Uncle except Palacios surprises us with occasional power
Oliveras doesn’t
Let me make this clear. I am not a WAR fan. When asked what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. I am a huge math nerd and created my own formulas. You wonder how can dream be right so many times. Well there you go. For starters I don’t use war. Surprised mlb1225 doesn’t or if he does why not here. Anyways…
I am sure most of you have heard of wins above replacement WAR. You can be positive or negative. 1 war is considered to be worth 5 to 10 million dollars. Taylor has a 0.5 war. So he is worth 2.5 to 5 million. His base running and defense more than make up for his bat. Again please read the 1st paragraph before telling me I am wrong. I am just reporting the news.
No one should be War fans.
At least Palacios doesn’t strikeout all that often. They just need to get rid of Taylor, or acquire another CF. He has a worse triple-slash since May than Francisco Liriano had with the Pirates. At least now Palacios can be a decent platoon with Joe at RF.
they have enough players with batting averages below the .240 line, Palacios only hit .239 last year and rarely drew a walk meaning he’s a free swinger
Joe’s BA was hovering around .290 in May, he’s at .241 now and has learned how to strike out often
We have enough worthless platoon players who can barely hit their weight
Palacios also hit for a little power too. A. 240 BA is average anymore. He’s not gonna save the offense, but he at least gives them some pop. Plus Joe might see a resurgence if he’s put back into a platoon.
I’m old enough to remember when batting .240 was considered below average and get aggravated when people use that number as an excuse for how awful our hitters have become
They are last in the league in batting average
There’s no excuse for that
Joe has lost his big hit ability. Palacios showed that last year…plus his enthusiasm is contagious.
It’s like Termarr being named to the minor league all star game. The kid has tremendous upside, sure. But last I looked, he was hitting around .220. That’s hardly all star quality but ok
He played good for pirates last year. Good hitter late in games last year.
Yes Joe was a clutch hitter last year, this year he can’t hit the ball off of a T with any accuracy
Yet he’s our cleanup hitter
Again, this franchise is a joke
Termarr was named because he is the highest rated Pirate minor leaguer.
His rating on the MLB ranking has dropped from about 20 to 57 over the last year.
He is the one of the youngest players in his league but he needs to start stepping it up if he wants to stay in the top 100.
And that says it all, Mendoza. That this guy is looked upon as such at this moment.
Again, I’m hoping his potential will be realized
But how is the cupboard so bare?
poor player development?
I watch other teams who use their young players and scratch my head, wondering why they are so much better than our youngsters then wake up and remember who the general manager is
Look how well the Cards rookie center fielder approaches the ball when he’s batting
He doesn’t take pitches close to the edges, he swings at them hitting the ball in the opposite direction
.Pirates hitters won’t touch those pitches and more often than not, they strike out looking
Taylor should have never been signed in the first place and wasn’t until right before spring training started
Because no one else wanted him
Just because he wasn’t signed until after ST started doesn’t mean nobody wanted him. Blake Snell, JD Martinez, and Jordan Montgomery all signed after Taylor. He hit 20 homers with a 96 wRC+ with Gold Glove defense. He wanted multiple years is the reason most teams didn’t go after him. A lot of players held out for unrealistic demands last offseason.
those other players you mentioned were holding out for the best contracts and were worthy of large contracts
Taylor is not one of those players
Still it was a signing Cherington shouldn’t have made
Why didn’t he hold out longer for a multi year deal ?
Well the other guys (Snell, JDM, Montgomery) didn’t get that large of contracts, especially compared to what they were projected to get at the start of the off-season. All 4 of Monty, Snell, JDM, and Taylor signed one year deals with Snell and Monty getting a second year player option. None of them held out because it was like half-way through Spring Training and their markets were only going to get less and less valuable.
you missed my point, those other guys were worthy of multi year contracts, regardless of if they got one
Taylor wasn’t worthy of that
Don’t look now but Grandal just threw out a rumor trying to steal 3rd
No, Taylor wasn’t worthy of one, which is why he had to settle for a one year deal. But that doesn’t mean he was a bad player at the time, no teams were interested, or it was a bad signing when the Pirates did it. He was an okay-ish hitter in 2023 with outstanding defense.
If Taylor was an okay ish hitter last year, for what reason did he become a dud?
Is it due to being one year older or is he receiving instructions on how to swing the bat differently from last year
Quite frankly. Taylor stinks and there has to be a valid reason why
“Jared, we’re going to put you on the IL to give that lat a rest”
“But my last is fine… wait, OK, put down the bat, my last hurts after all”
“Load management” – the NBA approach.
I would like to know who the genius was who came up with the idea that WAR was worth $8M each,which is what I had heard maybe four years ago.
It was probably worth $3-4 M then and not a lot more now.
To me it seems a decent way to predict the value of a player in relation to the rest of the players,but that is all that it can be used for.
He’s not hurt he is just working with innings limited.
Same w Skeenes
Skenes had his innings limit in the spring. Should be pretty good. Jones might be hurt. It’s minor and they are being really really cautious and if the were holding onto a wildcard spot in late September he might not be going on the IL. It’s mostly just a way to rest him.
Love to see Ashcraft!
Is Ortiz Priester Gonzales Pepsi ok?
This is a .500 team, at the very best. I get that attaining a wild card berth has become a battle of similar teams who ultimately won’t go anywhere but if nothing else, I hope the Pirates front office won’t make any piddly moves between now and the trade deadline that do very little for them in the long run but might mean trading prospects. They should take great pause in trading guys who in the development league
The Jones “tightness” should be a guide. He, Skenes and Keller are the future. Let Ashcraft and Chandler mature a bit. Let’s see where Burrows is.
And give the fans some real reason for optimism and spend on a couple big timers to place around Reynolds and Cruz next year. Guys who can field and hit. Cutch can’t go on forever. It won’t be cheap but Pirates fans are owed that much, instead of the same old propaganda that Nutting and Cherington spew
yes, there’s always next year and the year after and the year afterwards and by that time they’re back to a rebuild
Pirates fans have been owed since our taxes funded the construction of PNC Park in 2001
Yes and why I believe that instead of doing the solid baseball thing: realizing you have a special group of pitchers and a few hitters like Reynolds and Cruz who would greatly benefit from having some real sticks around them, this ownership/leadership will provide more Tellez-like signings.
“Despite what Dream says, they have little to offer for available players especially when contenders have more to offer”
Are you worried about them trading prospects or not? It’s either the have the players to make a trade it they don’t. I demand a definitive answer. Above you are saying dream is wrong. Here you say “They should take great pause in trading guys who in the development league” That’s exactly what I said who they have to trade.
I apologize. Between theman and thedebate I have my fact checking senses on high alert.
the least you can do is call me by my given name, Dream
You’ve mentioned my site name so many times I have to wonder
It’s Paul
You are right. I should. I know it. Anyone who is a regular knows it. I promise you there is no agenda why I haven’t. I can’t promise I will always in the future but I will try and if I don’t please politely remind me. I am a multi tasker and can easily almost certain I will do the user name sometimes. I hope we can make up. I haven’t hit refresh yet I working my way down the page as I get time. Then have to so it again because I see a dozen new comments are available. I get to reading then I do something else around the house, come back to reply and hopefully I am replying to same thing I read half hour ago and remember what it was. Will do my best but I get used to screen names. What if everyone wanted to be called my their real name? What makes you so special? Kidding I can handle one but if it becomes a common thing and it becomes hundreds that’s a lot of names.
Paragraphs were invented for a reason
Regarding my site name, the one I wanted wasn’t available and I had a choice of 3 provided by the site
TheMsn3 was the lesser of three evils so for those here I would consider beyond acquaintances, I ask politely to call me by my given name
Dream, this organization needs player development pros. I’m willing to come out of retirement and I work cheap. Of course, players will need to learn old school terminology and to enjoy some Red Man instead of bird food but so be it
I told you. I like Fantasy Island. I envision the GM signing two big time hitters and acknowledging that the basic pieces are in place here and that you have to spend to ascend
But the spending must happen in the free agency market in the off season. This team can’t afford to lose *any* prospects. And they don’t need to take on contracts of established players being dumped by the likes of the Marlins or Rockies
We’ll see what they do. I say that whatever they do will not entail spending and won’t be enough
They are unable to separate themselves from their wallet and will waste the talent here that just needs a couple big pieces
You better be willing to work cheap. Not cheap ain’t a option.
Nutting spend $? I think he will spend 100 million 110 of you are really lucky. Add 20 million from this team. Subtract 10.5 Chapman. 3.5 Rowdy 8 perez. 2 grandpal 4.5 Taylor and 3 Gonzales. Those are all off top of my head not exact numbers. I don’t know if my debate with Paul is over and don’t want to open myself up to Rowdy only makes 3.2 shows what you know not much. So what 20 + 30 is 50m ish. Not doing the math. Arbitration will go up so some guys. Extension guys might get more expensive. But let’s stick with just their luxury tax numbers. 40 million available for new contracts? No research or math just a guesstimate.
I am all for trades. Just not mega ones. I wouldn’t want to trade Bubba. Not Ashcraft. But they aren’t Skenes sure things. Not even Jones sure things. But really really nice arms a tier below. Burrows looked good but maybe not the same after injury. They might know something I don’t, they should so just am example. If they think the missed time won’t hurt him by all means keep him. I wouldn’t cry over Solometo. Wouldn’t cry over any of the guys throwing low 90s. Those arms can be successful but just lower odds of it happening. I like Barco and even more so Harrington but they aren’t untouchable. Meuth is a projectible arm but he has a long ways to go and they can find someone just like him in any draft and without using a 1st round pick. I promise you they can get anyone they want. And still be ok system wise. Don’t think the should. Don’t think they will. I think they should and if still in it will make small trades. Trade development failures like Bae Suwinski even, Triolo although they love his versatility, Priester etc. Add in a teenage lotto ticket, maybe even better than a lotto ticket but young and far away lots more development needed. Trade Chapman to dump salary and personality and replace with another reliever in a different trade.
We’re on the same page where trades are concerned. To me, they need to commit to signing a couple big time players this off season if the idea is to truly contend. If.
You’d think that with their pitching, this would be the idea. But like you, I think the overall thinking comes down to a business model of profits before everything. Heavy profits
As you described, their procedure mirrored the Rays. Samuel likes to say that the O’s didn’t actually go this route but in essence, they sure have. As have the Brewers. Milwaukee is fine with straying from the plan where they see gaps in maturation or misfires in young talent. Trades. Signings
Baltimore hasn’t had to, of course.
But the Pirates missed badly with a number of prospects and should mirror Milwaukee’s tactics of again, they wish to truly contend. Again, if
I’m all for trading guys like Suwinski, Bae, Triolo and Chapman and the dropping Grandahl, Tellez and Taylor. Two problems:
One, those guys aren’t going to bring back the big timers you need and two, saving money on dropping the guys they signed isn’t going to offset the cost of bringing a couple big timers here
That’s where we are. It’s continually running in place. The effort to always push the idea of “contending” just means wild card berth chances and nothing more.
I don’t think Cherington is stupid. I’m sure he knows the farm has no one outside of Termarr who may be a player of impact here
(I know nothing of McAdoo). I’m sure he realizes that he has three top starters now with Ashcraft, Bubba, Burrows, Harrington et al on the way. As a baseball guy, he knows how that stacks up against even the best teams league-wide. But I’m sure he has marching orders where expenses are concerned and has some frustrations about continually adding lower tier guys to complement the pitching. In the era of 5-6 inning starts, having that kind of starting staff is only going to get you so far. It’s not enough
I’m ok with a .500 team. My expectations aren’t any greater. I’d love to see an O’s-type team here but it’s just not going to happen where finances, scouting and player development are concerned. That’s fine. But jeez, just make sure the kids are hustling at all times and hate losing.
For as much as I am supportive of a trade that might help this offense, it probably isn’t a good idea to make one until the current coaching staff is gone
One additional player won’t make this team a contender and there’s no valid reason for trading away prospects just to finish at .500.
If Andy Haines isn’t helping the players they have now, bringing in another player through trade isn’t going to help them reach the playoffs
There’s too many holes in this offense that picking up has beens ( like Josh Bell) will put this team on the next tier of offense
O’s are killing it development wise. Impressive. They are 2 years ahead on their rebuild than the Pirates. They were trading away Machado and company while we were trading for Archer. Not that we are going to be where they are in 2 years lol. They had a Adley to draft we had Hank. They had Holiday we had to settle for TJ.
Cherington took a brutal job. The 2020 2021 draft classes were weak. He took the right players imo. 2022 wasn’t much better but TJ was a excellent prep hitter. But you never want to take a runt 2b that early. His bat was so good and there was no other choice. I would say every Cherington 1st round pick has been automatic. They were pretty much you had to pick those players. 2020 2021 took the 2 best college bats who did well in the cape. 2022 they took the best prep hitter. Automatic picks. Unfortunately you would have taken any of the first 6 picks of 2023 draft over TJ and any of the first 10 over Davis Gonzales. 2023 draft was so good you would have to go back 10 years maybe more to find a better one. And none are even close. It’s up there. 2020 was bad and 7th is tuff. 2021 was almost as bad.
Here is a thank the baseball gods moment. 2022 Rangers got cute and tried to do the Henry Davis get Bubba later strategy. They should have taken TJ. If they did the Pirates would have had to take Elijiah Green (former steeler eric greens son). Nationals have developed Wood Harper Soto so when I give you these stats imagine how bad they would be with pirates development. 259 at bats 135 strike outs .174 average! At low A! He would fit right in!!!!!!!!! He was a option for the Pirates but luckily Cherington is smart. Nats would have taken TJ and been thrilled. Thank the Texas Rangers though. He struck out a ton in hs with the best coaching available on the planet. What are the odds you can improve it? But Nats had to take him. Pirates would have to. His other 4 tools are elite. He’s a no doubt cf. Like win gold glove cf. Steal 30 40 bases. K’s are crazy though.
CF is the key upgrade. That’s a big swing. A Robert Bleday they might make playoffs. Lesser guy would help even. Those 2 would take some real prospects but they need a cf for 2024 25 26 27 there’s no help on the farm. They ain’t buying one if free agency. So if Ben takes a chunk out of the farm for CF I can see why. What you think of a quantity like Burrows Solometo Harrington Barco loto ticket bat? Can swap out some pitcher names with Meuth Shim. Might have to give them Ashcraft instead of Harrington. Might have to give them both and go more quality. They played a month or 2 without Rowdy and Gonzales. That cost them a few wins. So they have those wins moving forward. CF would be HUGE.
Here’s your choice hug your prospects and hope you hit one of those pitchers. 2 would be crazy. Or have a all star caliber cf for the next 4 years? You already have Jones Skenes Keller. None of those arms are them. Ashcraft Burrows could be great #4s under 4 era guys. Or they could be relievers. Good relievers but still relievers. Or they could be Nicols Holmes Moreta Hernandez. Harrington could be a 4 as well. Barco could as well but not quite same class. Meuth 4 as well but far away. If any team wants Solometo I am making a trade. Somehow I make it happen. I see him on top 100 list. Did I see a top 50 even somewhere? He has the potential but I think it’s so unlikely he doesn’t sniff my top 100. So any team that thinks he is top 100 I am making a trade with. Cherington knows better than I do. Solometo could be on the cusp of developing a plus change up for instance and he would be top 100 then. But I haven’t seen top 100 yet so he better get that change up or find another 2mph on his fastball or something.
I would make that trade for the cf though. A+ Teams might get crazy though and it would take Bubba. And I counter TJ and hope it’s enough.
Dream- You don’t want to trade the farm for one player.
Ask Huntington about that.
Some of these pitchers should be off limits unless you get Bleday.
Robert is hurt too much for me and his salary is very high.
They could be include one impressive AA player and another in A.Throw in a couple more position players in A.
Johnson could be included as a premium player but only if no other ones are included.
These other teams have nothing to lose and are asking for the moon.
The problem is not scouting.It has been development and managing from day one.They have needed to make serious changes for a couple of years.
Can see why you think that way. It’s going to cost at least 2 could be 3 of your 10 best prospects. I don’t have a strong opinion on injuries. Is he injury prone and will keep getting injuries going forward? Or he has had his bad luck and things should be better. Dunno.
They need to identify who fits into their pitching portfolio and trade accordingly, if they can. Do Burrows and Oviedo still fit? How close are Chandler, Harrington and Ashcraft?
They have depth with pitching prospects and middle infielders. Great
But I still don’t think any of it brings back what they need. A quality all star center fielder who’s something like Reynolds? Ok
But not enough
They lack the big bomber in a corner or 1st
But just like I don’t think anyone on this roster save for Skenes, Jones and Keller should be off limits, I don’t think these guys will ever spend
Jack and Taylor have given you nothing. How many games have they lost by 1 2 or 3 runs? How many times do they strand runners on base? In scoring position? 1 above average guy vs a guy fans are wanting to dfa or send down is a difference maker. How much better is a available 1b than Rowdy Joe? Rowdy since fixed is hitting well with or without hrs. I think more hrs will come. Hitting .342 since May 30. If he slumps you got Joe to help out. So maybe get a RF instead of 1b. More and cheaper option there. Or if Jack gets going you just need cf even if it’s just a average guy.
I am not worried about plans. You have planned rotation of Keller Hill Contreras Velasquez Brubaker with Oviedo ready to come out of the pen to replace the next starter and Ortiz in minors to replace the next hurt start, then your first round pick Priester to come up if injuries just absolutely destroy you and then have your best mlb ready pitching prospect to call up in June in an emergency break glass situation that is just hypothetical. I dunno about you but that didn’t sound like a bad plan.
“ but I don’t think these guys will ever spend “
If Nutting hasn’t spent yet after owning the team for 17 years, he’s not likely to start now
“ if he slumps, you got Joe to help out “
except that Joe is in his own slump
Last 2 weeks Joe is hitting .316 average. Shows how much you know. Not much.
then why didn’t he play last night, if he’s that hot
I know several things that you don’t
You just can’t correct someone without being rude and insulting
That’s your line! Not mine. I noticed you using it with other people. Only reason I use it. I find it funny and like it. It’s a tribute. Not being rude and insulting. It’s flattering.
With the All Star Break coming I would not bring up Ashcraft yet giving him a few more games at AAA. BUT another game between now and then may happen so that might satisfy my conditions enough. If Jared seems like they might want to give him a few more days I’d consider it more strongly.
Skenes Keller Perez Falter. Ortiz has been good. Give Priester another look if need be? I prefer Ortiz. And Gonzales is supposed to come back I dunno it’s not Farve watch. But I am sure they would like to showcase Gonzales for the trade deadline opps my bad apologies I meant get him ready for the playoffs.
IL manipulation, but nobody cares unless it’s the Mets. They’re faking an injury to give him rest without using an option and costing him money.
All teams do this. The Mets (or Eppler) were egregious doing it and had someone blow the whistle on them with supported evidence. Somebody really didn’t like Eppler. I have no issues with phantom IL’ing bc the player isn’t losing service time nor pay.
Yep. You just have to make sure the player is ok with it. Have the friends of the program take care of him. You don’t think Brady was just a super nice guy playing for drastically less than he should do ya? You take care of people and they take care of you. Mets got sloppy.
It will be easier to keep up with the Joneses now.
On a serious note, though, hope the young man is,back chucking them soon. You guys have a good looking starting staff.
And a crappy offense.
understatement of the year, Mendoza !
You guys enjoy the better Cruz. MLB network has been talking him up and said with his personality and rising up under the bright lights he is a future Yankee Met or Dodger. He learned English. This is a man who wants to be a star and get paid. Might have to give him a awful extension but do it or lose him.
Tired-I have a question for you.
This does not regard Cherington.
What manager would bring Santana in in a tie game in extra innings against your most important adversary?
Oscar Marin would have done a better job pitching.
Even if Shelton had the most talented team in the ML’s he would blow it somehow.
I would rather see them go at a .300 win pace the rest of the year if that is what it takes to get rid of this clown.Nobody including Nutting gives a crap about having a winning team.
If you have a ? For tired why not reply to him instead of commenting all the way down here? I kid kid. It’s mlbtr. Happens often.
I know I am muted and it’s directed at tired but I don’t give a it. I got a great sarcastic response and I am going to use it. So here we go. It’s your loss you muted me cause this is great and tired is going to love it.
What manager would bring Santana in in a tie game in extra innings against your most important adversary? A manager who’s gm traded away Contreras Wilson Holmes and Hernandez! Bam. Can I get a rim shot? That A+ material tired?
Uh oh breaking news. Dream was wrong. My mind seen this comment was from theman3. It’s actually from Mendoza who hasn’t muted me…….. Yet
But I’ve lost count of these instances, Dream, as have TheMan and Mendoza. I get your point about the pitching staff but he did these kinds of things even when times were good
As stated above, his substitutions often are gut feelings, if even thst
The continued failure to pressure defenses is odd for a weak hitting team. Bunt guys up Especially in extras. Hit and run. Use opposite fields.
And above all, demand hustle
But Dream, he’s not alone. I’m guessing 80% of managers are like this guy now.
I didn’t watch the game. Haven’t paid attention. Just about every game I have watched I would check in on Twitter or forums and fans would complain about his move. And Shelton usually made rhe right move or ok enough. They wanted a guy in who pitched 2 days in a row or 3 of the 4 last days. Aka they wanted someone who wasn’t available. Or worse they destroyed Shelton when he went Chapman over Bednar and it was later revealed Bednar was hurt. Pregame any reliever might not be feeling. He isn’t available unless in emergency and fans have no way to know this. Or they ignore matchups. Pirates won’t ignore them. So as a fan you need to check pitchers analytics and the batters. And beyond just righty lefty splits. It come down to this batter struggles vs this pitch type with this spin rate. Maybe Shelton messed up. I will watch 10 min condensed game. So let me know what should have been done and I might do a lil research. From history 9 out of 10 times he made the right call.
I watched an entire season one year or close to it and kept track of how many times Shelton made a bad decision. It was around 10 of the top of my mind maybe even closer to 5. Don’t remember but I do remember it only cost the Pirates like 2 or 3 wins. And I was being harsh and didn’t know who was available. I would make a note and by the end of game be like well it didn’t factor in.
Milwaukee let the best manager according to many the most expensive manager leave. They could have paid him. They aren’t any worse for wear..I would dare say better. Cubs aren’t any better dare I say worse. I played baseball. I think anyone who has doesn’t think much of manager. You can like them. Love them. Think of them as a father figure even. But good or bad they aren’t winning or losing too many games. I would hire Shelton as my manager. Seems like a yes man who will do whatever I say. Players seem to like him and play for him. From what I see I would put most my blame on Cherington. If you want a manager to make some of these guys hustle then don’t hire Shelton. He’s not that guy. Should have never hired him. I believe it’s the clubhouse job. Cherington didn’t bring in the right veterans. Not as effective coming from manager as player. And if the clubhouse is fine with it all the manager does is lose the team and will be fired.
Agree 100% and have said many times here that managing/coaching is overrated at the professional level. At the collegiate level, the best coaches are essentially just the best recruiters. Nothing more. And it doesn’t matter the sport
I take issue most with Shelton’s game management techniques but I’m not an analytic guy, instead someone who looks for percentage-based matchups or basic tenets of putting pressure on opposing defenses. Old school. In this regard, again, Shelton is no different than most managers these days
And yes, Shelton wishes to be a player’s manager. Tanner was like this too, of course, but he had superior talent and enough veterans who ascribed to a higher level of play to police shenanigans. I don’t get that Cutch is in this mold. Reynolds is a quiet guy
So you see cell phones popping out of back pockets on the basepaths. Or a guy with a handful of seeds playing 3rd while a ball is live and in play. Or jogging out ground balls or op flies. Or catchers lobbing the ball back to pitchers with runners on base
discipline is a major problem with this team and Shelton is the reason
All of the examples you listed, Tired, that lack of respect that the players show on the field, whether in defense or offense, these examples are reported on in local media and sports ro, yet they continue
And why?
Derek Shelton
Paul-You and I are thinking alike on this one.
To say that the manager has no affect on the outcome and disciplined play of the team is folly.To say that you acquire players only to act as mini managers is ludicrous.Yes,you need them,but to play the game.Taking care of the clubhouse is a plus,but still the manager basically acting in concert with him.
That is like saying that you don’t need good coaches to develop young players.
I am not so sure though that his way of handling players is not accepted by Cherington and thus is a reason why both need to go,.I do not see either making significant progress from what they are now- mediocre.
Dream-Really,were you saying that Cherington should not have done those trades at the times that they were made,or are you playing Monday morning quarterback?
I wasn’t criticizing his trades. His trades have been good. One of the best traders in baseball. That’s not impressive. All he did was sit back and wait for phone calls and pick whatever prospects that a team offered who threw the hardest or hit the ball the hardest. Obviously there’s much more to it then that. His free agent signings have been top tier in baseball. He signs guys a d at trade deadline teams call him wanting those players. Player development is the problem. Name the trade you think was bad and I will defend it. Not failed pitchers though. My quick tv story again. My tv is broken. I can’t fix it. I put it on curb. 20 25 28 29 other teams can’t fix it either. Maybe 1 or 3 think they can but they can’t be sure so they won’t give me much for it. Bell was a bit light but not much. It was buyers market..he was a dh not a 1b. Lil expensive. Name your trade and can defend it unless I am forgetting something.
I know you hated the Marte trade. Peguero when aquired had all the tools to stick at ss. Great bat speed. Loud contact. If he entered the draft he would have went in 1st round. If the Pirates drafted Malone instead of Priester in round one no one would have blinked. Wouldn’t have been considered a reach. The team that went to world series last year took Malone a dozen or 15 or so picks after Priester. One guy can’t stay healthy. One guy just didn’t pan out or poor development. Don’t write Peguero off just yet but he hasn’t been a huge development success yet.
Peguero is the natural SS here. Cruz would make a fine 1st baseman. Despite his arm, which means nothing if he can’t field the position.
But I get the feeling that the Pirates wouldn’t make such a switch for years so as not to upset Cruz. I mean, that .240 average and 12 or 13 homers behooves them walking on eggshells, right?
don’t forget those errant throws to Tellez, even when there’s no immediate rush to get the ball to first base
Similar to when Chapman is pitching for a 2 run save opportunity, when a ball is hit to Cruz that requires a throw to first base, I fear the outcome
Peguero is a weak ss. Could play there but he has had troubles with his throw accuracy. Can all be fixed just not by the pirates maybe. Cruz is ss because they don’t have anyone better.
Anyone sick of Chapman not covering 1b yet?
Dream-Huntington was one of the best traders in baseball.Few of his trades were failures between about his third year and the Archer trade.
He had a philosophy of trading good players near free agency for near ready or ready ML players,and it worked.
Cherington has been mediocre.He is better at finding free agents for decent money.He has been a failure at getting decent minor league players who actually have a chance to make it in the ML’s.
And yes,Marte and Bell were just salary dumps pure and simple and he did not get anything really for them.Maybe other GMs knew that and their value was not as high as it could have been later.
If Peguero was really any good he would have shown it by now.He was young at first but that trade was made five years ago,
Dream-Chapman is not the brightest bulb in the pack.He throws so hard that there is a disconnect as to what he should do afterwards.
How about Perez not touching first base and losing the game even as well as he pitched?
Peguero at one point made numerous top 100 list so you are in the minority there. He’s 23 years old so not ready to watch blue bloods with you guys yet. Might be a platoon player. Bench piece but he is still on track to be a mlb player.
Cherington trades almost as good as NH. All he has done is sell mostly. If he ever starts buying we will see. Got Joe and Choi for absolutely nothing. Newman Moreta and Vogey Holderman were smart trades. How many pirates fans thought Contreras was going to be a starter? A lot. Got him for a guy with 2 tjs who didn’t pitch for 2 years. Problem is he didn’t have much to trade. Rodriguez Stallings Frazier ain’t moving the needle. Lucky to scrap together what he did. Musgrove was his best chip. Bednar Endy were alright. Thats a win trade. He won most his trades.
I am fine with Perez. Believe me when I say it’s not easy to sprint toward the bag, catch the ball, and fins the bag. They don’t practice it enough. He made a effort. Most the time he will find the bag.
You nailed it. Dream has lauded Nutting’s business acumen. Ok. I agree. The man wants to make a profit. That’s his only concern. A .500 team means one that is at least competitive.
I get the feeling Nutting doesn’t have a very deep understanding of the sport and I think he only reacts where the bottom line is concerned: expenses and income
For a long time, my thought about Shelton was that on one hand, he can’t get blood from a stone. That is, his guys only have so much ability. On the other, my thoughts have always been that a great deal of his lineups come after input from above
But there is no excuse for in-game substitutions and the constant failure to put pressure on defenses. There’s no excuse for allowing Cruz to jog out ground ball outs or for so many of these guys being ok with losing.
It’s not just the players who are seemingly fine with losing, Shelton is as well
Pinch hitting for Rowdy against a lefty with Olivares when the latter struck out twice in the same scenario while Rowdy has actually been hitting the ball well lately including against lefties was a questionable move
Batting Joe cleanup when he’s been in a slump while Rowdy is at the #5 slot and has been doing well is also a questionable move
Even if Shelton doesn’t actually write the lineup, doesn’t he have any authority to contribute to it’s inception with Cherington?
Apparently Shelton is manager in name only if he can’t contribute beyond in game situations
We want Rowdy now huh. That’s fine. It’s ok to be wrong. Ok change to change your mind. I’m just saying can we give a big round of A+ s to whoever said it’s too early to give up on Rowdy. Who pointed out the positives. The one person who didn’t want to dfa him. Whoever that person is deserves a A+ in my opinion.
I have admitted to being wrong, you just overlook those words, Dream
It’s fine to be. And not picking on you but just about everyone was wrong except me lol I am kidding. Have no choice to really because the comments are still there. It’s human nature to overreact. 90 some percent of people wanted Rowdy gone. I’m not your typical fan. I saw the hidden positives. And even if I seen nothing positive I endorsed the signing so I would give him until mid June. Anyone can have a bad 2 months.
At close of day July 4th. Its now a hour into July 5th. Grandpal is hitting .171 I ain’t a big prediction guy but my projections have Grandal being better. Luck and small sample sizes can’t be predicted. Don’t know if he will get enough bats going forward. But of he got say 400 more at bats his batting average should rise. Lady luck it could drop down to 160 150 140 before it goes up but of he keeps hitting like he has after enough bats it should eventually work it’s way north. Not my fav player or anything but his average is pushing the limits of mathematics. Not winning a batting title but the guy most years would be at 200 210 at least 180 190 to be over the Hedges line. Old Grandpal got some bad luck going on.
Dream- For Grandal there is no difference between 160 and 200 as he is not a good catcher anyway.
Good teams do not evoke questions like this.They just get a better second catcher.
Delay is home grown and all in all better.He hustles and the few hits that he gets are often in the clutch.
They would not need Koch.Give Carter Bins a shot if Delay or Bart get hurt again.
And please please quit screwing with Davis and let him play RF in AAA where there is a lot less responsibility than at catcher.Make him attend development sessions in the Fall.He can make a decent RF with a great arm.Let him prove that he cannot hit but when he can concentrate on hitting alone.
Unfortunately nothing will change until the General Manager is gone and the next one actually cares about player development
And that includes dumping the current manager and his coaching staff.
As a group they have had 5 years to make this organization better and they have failed miserably
By the way nice homers by Rowdy and Jack
It’s called changing your mind, Dream. People do it in all aspects of life
Rowdy said that he got in touch with a scout he had known since as a teenager and they worked on his swing and approach at the plate.
Which made him a better hitter
You ain’t getting no help from Haines so gotta think outside the box. I believe Gonzales credited himself with his swing changes.
I was talking about Rowdy, not Gonzalez and Rowdy provided that information during an interview after one of the games recently
I never said you were talking about Gonzales. I added him as another player who got fixed without Haines. Shows what you know. Not M Not going to do it.
you responded directly to my message and said that Gonzalez credited himself with swing changes
I suspect that you’ve been drinking excessively again
Gonzalez was at AAA.He was told what he needed to work on after last year and he was all ears.I do not doubt that Munson helped him too.
You just can’t read. It’s cool. What I did was agreed with you that Haines didn’t help Rowdy and instead of just stopping there I added on to our conversation that Haines didn’t help Gonzales either. See what I did there? The only person who could possibly think you were talking about Gonzales is you! You aren’t talking to yourself again are you?
If you want to give these coaches lots of credit fine but here is some Gonzales quotes you can read. “I kind of took it upon myself to figure out some adjustments I needed to make.”
“I’d rather figure things out on my own first, then be able to relay that to the coaches,” Gonzales said. “Versus relying on someone to constantly tell me or constantly adjust things with me because I don’t think I work the best that way.
“I’ll be in the box reaching or trying to find something, when I just need to address it on my own and figure out what I need to adjust. It was really good to have months hitting on my own and figuring it out.”
He isn’t saying he never talked to coaches or saying they are trash. But he comes off to me as giving himself credit for most of it.
He built his own baseball facility next to his house with hitting tunnel pitching machines data trackers weight room everything a elite facility would have. Joey Ortiz comes there to work out with him.
So listen up Pirates prospects. All you have to do is become friends with a good baseball player, build a million dollar facility, and work out there all winter and you too can improve.
except that you never mentioned Rowdy by name and instead brought up Gonzalez
Maybe it’s you that can’t read
It’s funny that Nick said this, that Rowdy made mention of going with his old approach and that from the looks of things, Reynolds has ditched the crouch approach
I’m wondering if there is a “Haines doesn’t know what he’s doing vibe” in the clubhouse
While I can’t blame a coach in particular, something ruined Suwinski. Hayes has regressed and to me at least, Cruz looks more and more like Gregory Polanco
After Reynolds’ grand slam last night the camera got a shot of him saying something in the direction of Haines in the dugout
Haines wasn’t smiling like one would expect after a player he’s supposed to be coaching hit a homer with the bases loaded so you might have a valid point Tired
it’s also questionable that after having such a dismal season up until yesterday, Taylor bangs out 4 hits including a homer
Did he decide no to use Haines’ coaching approach?
No I can read just fine. I 100 percent knew you were talking about Rowdy and not Gonzales. I used to talk to people like they were children and someone told me they didn’t care for it too much so I would rather have you not be able to figure it out than come off as condescending.
Reynolds worked out with Haines past two off seasons. I dunno if Haines lives in Nashville or stayed there just to be with Reynolds but thats who Reynolds choose to use in off-season. Last I heard Reynolds Haines are tight. Maybe the only player Haines can take credit for. Not that Reynolds wasn’t going without Haines.
Someone tried to get Suwinski to strike out less and failed to give up on him hitting lefties. It actually worked but at the expense of everything else. Looks to me they ditched that and are going back to 2023 Jack. And he is getting there. Just slowly. But he is getting there so hope he gets all the way back.
That’s a good notice. Like I said above here they were very close. Maybe Reynolds took the red pill. If what you read into is true, how the heck is this guy still employed??!?!!!!!! Insane.
Haines conspiracy theory time. I love it. Entire team thinks he’s a loser but they won’t fire him. After seeing those Gonzales quotes how do you not fire him? After Rowdy goes public about how he got fixed how do you not fire him? ( And wasn’t Haines in Milwaukee with Rowdy) So even though Rowdy is new here he knows Haines longer than just 3 months.
I think the front office wishes to seek permanence in some form where the manager and staff are concerned. And I don’t think the expectations are high. The five year plan morphed into a seven year plan and it’ll morph again before it’s over
Oh, to be an O’s fan. Nice dream
That person was Nutting because he did not want to pay him not to play.
You wanna crown Munson then crown him. But I’m not letting him off the hook.
Your remember that similar quote?
I got beer to drink and fireworks to set off. Hope everyone has a good day. I shall return and hope you all do as well and keep coming back until the next article. We can’t have theman3 talking to himself for 3 days again. I just clicked on it by mistake when trying to see this article. If I known I might have felt bad and gave him thumbs up and replies to try to get him to unmute me. I like to think that but I probably would have just sat back and seen how long he would go. If this article didn’t come out would he have kept going until the all star break? The trade deadline? My analytics say he would have just kept going. Oh man I miss the guy already. And mlb1225. He was like a son to me. Seriously. When I seen his mind working in real time when he realized I was right about the famous Joe Suwinski all star platoon it was like seeing your son take his first steps. I mean it took him long enough. The wheels turned but really really slow. But they did turn. Very baby baby really baby steps but they were steps. Anyways A+ to anyone still reading this. No idea why but I love you. My analytics predicted I could have kept going for 2 more minutes and 27 seconds before you gave up but it’s a holiday so I decided to give you a break. That’s how awesome I am.
except that Joe stinks at the moment and doesn’t deserve a platoon role
He is in a down stretch. The all star was only valid at time of writing last year. I didn’t expect it to continue for eternity. But no reason it couldn’t happen again this year. Not even worried about Joe. He is a proven thing at this point. He will decline with age but he is a professional hitter with multiple seasons under his belt. Suwinski though as Tom Petty would say the future is wide open. Right now I picture Walter Matthau chopping on a towel jamming to some Tom Petty. But yeah no idea what the did to Jack. Seems like they tried to make him a every day player and cut down his strike outs. Personally I was fine with a 30 hr platoon who struck out a ton but got his share of walks.
I always thought you were being sarcastic about the Suwinski-Joe all star comment. That mlb was serious told me all I needed to know. Where’s Jim Bouton to address analytics?
Neither of these guys could have gotten near the game without a ticket, and rightly so.
As I’ve said, I prefer they do nothing from here on out. Go with what you have. Let your young pitchers mature on the farm. Allow Skenes and Jones to continue to cut their teeth this season
In a perfect world, it dawns on them that they have one helluva group of starting pitchers in place and decide to be big spenders this winter. In a world where there was semblance of commitments to winning
I was sarcastic and serious about the all star. It wasn’t that I thought either alone was an all star but if you could be a mad scientist and have Jack vs only rhp and Joe vs only LHP and if you looked at their season stats at the time (it was like 3 months or something into the season) one had a ops of 800 something one had a ops of 900 something. Many all stars will have a ops of 800 something. Altuve aka buzz light year is at 825 or something. Probably more that’s just one I know ofd the top of my head. So for that half season Jack Joe had all star numbers. You can laugh. You can say I crazy. You can say that I am wrong but it wouldn6be true. The numbers prove it. Altuve is a awful example because he is batting over 300 but there have been and will be guys who hit 230 250 struck out a ton but hat the 800 something ops and made all star team. .223 average .869 ops. 2021 all star Joey Gallo stats as a ranger. Traded to Yankees shortly after all star break. Jack alone vs all pitching wasn’t that good. Joe alone vs all pitching isn’t that good. But the best platoon of them combined had better numbers than Joey Gallo. Not cherry picking him. Plenty of guys, love average 800 ops made all star teams. You can say I am wrong but you can’t prove it. Do the research. Send me a thousand bucks I will give you 2 dozen more examples. Gallo just popped in my head is because that’s what I seen as best case scenario for Suwinski. Hrs and strike outs and low average. Mlb got a lil crazy naming hall of famers with those numbers. I was like yes. Thats my boy. I even called him bright eyes! Lol. Maybe thats why he muted me. He shouldn’t have. He had potential but it took him awhile to figure it out. Had to pivot to my 2nd choice tiredold dude and a year later he hasn’t come around to it. This was my best and final shot. If you don’t see that Joe Jack was a all star I am sorry but you can’t be assistant gm. I explained clearly multiple times. It’s a year later. Only took bright eyes one day. At this point you really need to be like Shelton and a yes man. Have I lied or deceived you? Why the lack of trust? Come on now. Bright eyes was a huge loss. Obviously he didn’t amount to much without my mentorship. Someone praised him today and all he did was say the same thing the author said. I got the link saved somewhere where he told me at the beginning of 2022 I was wrong about my projections and he said the pirates were going to make the playoffs as wild card and then win the division in 2023. Just in case my apprentice ever thought they have become the master I need to put them back in place. Anyways you go chew on your towel and watch some planet of the apes. Wait a minute. Light bulb just went on. I can get a monkey and train it to be my assistant gm. If I can genetically enhance it just a lil bit I think it will be better than mlb1225 could have ever been! Nice talking with you but I gotta go buy a
monkey.
Bright eyes wasn’t alone, of course. These are either true believer types or guys who drown themselves in analytics to arrive at erroneous answers
Cue Roy Hobbs talking to Max Mercy. “Did you ever play the game, Max?”
That’s what it comes down to, really and it’s the line of demarcation that guys like TheMan3, Mendoza and I observe. You wish to throw numbers at us at times and tell us that what we see as old time baseball guys isn’t what’s actually happening
In the real world however, it all comes down to the basic understanding of whether guys can be impact types in the biggest situations
Few players here are in that category
Bouton said, “Tell your statistics to shut up” in 1969. I’m sure if he were around today, he’d say a similar thing, and about analytics
First sentence was in incomplete…
“… or fans who really, really, really want the team to win so much so that they’ll blind themselves to the reality of limitations that the team as constructed has”
Analytics are everything. Why wouldn’t you want as much information that you can get? I created my own formulas. Others on here are using obsolete analytics. Teams have their formulas so if you want to be on their level you need to create your own formulas. But basic analytics is light years better than era average rbi etc. Obsolete wanted to dfa Rowdy. I seen a useful player. Obsolete Rockies just gave Joe away. Pirates seen a useful player. Pirates would lose 100s of games every year if not for Analytics. Now with them they can win 78 to 85 lol haha lmao
Dream- Analytics are a very useful tool but are to be used in conjunction with an even more extremely useful tool- the human mind.
Shelton does way too many stupid things to last in a well run organization.
DD with the Phillies mixes the two and does quite well at it.
No matter how good a computer is it needs good data and even then still cannot predict the future.
Those who rely exclusively on formulas are truly living in a Dream world.
Not sure that mlb125 appreciates being referred to as “ Bright Eyes”.
I would wonder what Leyland would say about the role of analytics. Or Sparky. Or Billy. Or Tommy….
You’re missing the point. The info augments what real baseball can see and sense. Drowning yourself in it reveals very little
@Mendoza I think my formulas are awesome. But if you create something you are likely to like it right. I shared my previous formulas and the people who seen them were impressed. I think my latest is superior or I wouldn’t part with the previous one.
I don’t think this is some secret as I would guess some teams are trying this or even using it now and of it is I don’t think teams are looking at mlbtr comment sections and definitely not old nothing articles. I been working for a decade on a system that combines both. The weak point is the scouting. Numbers don’t lie but scouting is subjective. Geys weaker because I don’t have a mlb scouting department. I am in some scouting groups. Few friends who I think are good scouts. But majority of it is me. How good am I? No one likes to pat people on the back so I have no idea. But it outperforms my data only system so I think it’s the future.
Doesn’t matter what he appreciates. He has me muted so he can’t see what I type. And he rushes in and gives his captain obvious comment, might answer a few early replies a few hours after and he gone back to his mlb scouting job. He’s gone. He ain’t coming back to this article. It’s just 3 men and a baby now. 3 old men and a younger man. Tired already claimed Selleck. Do you want Danson or Guttenberg? If I was you I would take Danson and stick Paul with Guttenberg.
They would be in the mlb network studio with the rest of the dinosaurs.
Not good he was dominating this year sad too see I hope he has a good return
Sounds like it’s nothing other than being safe and limiting his innings with a lil all star break. Maybe couple rehab starts at lower innings and really take a chunk out of his innings.
Dream-This site is putting this response at the end but it is in reply to your response I believe to me about my post on Gonzalez.
I just said that he was acquired cheaply because he has been hurt so much recently,not because he is not a good pitcher.
You read into my short post incorrectly.
My apologies. I am extremely popular with many comments to address!!!!!
The 2.65 era or whatever was a reply to Tired.
The one that started with Atlanta was for you. In my head I thought I was just answering why Atlanta didn’t want him. No intent to address your opinion on him. But if I did my bad. If you read the reply to Tired then and thought it was for you. Sometimes I do @so so and so but usually leave it for everyone to try to figure it out.
But yeah 29 teams failed. Good job pirates. Especially their medical staff. Many thought he would never pitch in mlb again. His shoulder turned out to be fine.
I’m just hoping the arguments here are over. As you said, Mendoza, the trolls all matriculate to the Yankees and Dodgers threads. Here, you have fans of all stripes. Some see better days coming soon. Others, like me, see this era as TheMan3 has said…perpetual rebuild. They have the pieces but refuse to spend on a couple of players that would allow it all to flourish
The arguments are a waste of time and bandwidth
There was no arguments. Just a intense discussion between 2 friends. I think it strengthen our friendship. I gave Paul a drunken celebrity roast. I mean come on. Anyone ever have such a good friend that they gave them a roast? I haven’t. We just took a lil break for a dew days and relived our child hood, name calling and all. Can’t promise it won’t happen again but I think we are good until the all star break at least.
I think they are a playoff team and can compete in playoffs. I would do the CF trade. Keep Bubba but anything else goes. People like to say 1b is a black hole but Santana Rowdy/Joe just get another cheap veteran next year. Or bring back Santana Rowdy but hopefully there is a better option available. Bell was ok enough at 1b. But CF you go back to Marte who was much better in LF. Nothing coming from the farm. Never much in free agency. If they get a all star level CF. That’s a big move.
Try for the all star break. Pauls already getting a bit snarky with It’s called changing your mind! Ever hear of paragraphs!
If he gets on me about how I need to get a reverse mortgage I’m gonna lose it.
@Dream “Again with the lies! You can’t stop!! I never told you about all the amazing benefits a reverse mortgage can provide! You think I am trying to steal your home? Shows what you know… Not much.”
Tired- Amen brother on the arguements.
I knew that you were not just another pretty face even if you do look like Tom Selleck!
Arguably one team’s best pitcher is on the mound in tonight’s game, unfortunately for him, unless he throws a one hit shutout, the lineup that Ben developed won’t score him enough runs for a win
Taylor should only be a late game replacement and Dream’s favorite player, Grandal should have been dfa already
I get that he will call a good game behind the plate, this team needs to find ways to score more runs than the opposition and I have doubts this lineup will do just that
Again with the lies. You just can’t help yourself. Jack is my favorite player.
Another thing you are wrong on its not Grandal it’s Grandpal.
I have a feeling in my bones Grandpal is going to have a good night. Not you Paul, I’m talking about the Pirates catcher.
I’m aware of my age and despite the adage of being in the Golden Years, there’s nothing golden about it
Who was it that was defending the promotion of Palacios
Thus far he’s not very impressive
Statistically speaking I would not put money on it unless you mean that Grandal actually gets one hit.
it’s only a lie if the person saying it actually believes it and I don’t
Experience has taught me well, Dream
On the lighter side. I tried watching the EURO 2024 soccer on tv. After 5 minutes I turned it off. The sport is picking up in the USA, and it’s good for the kids, but not for me.
And another lighter side moment. How can they call nascar a sport. Guys riding around in circles. People sitting in the seats in the heat watching it. People watching on the tube.
For me…I’d rather grab a lawn chair, a cooler of brew and sit on one of the many overpasses on the turnpike and watch the nuts driving. Ok have a great weekend everyone
People view hunting as a sport which makes no sense
Doing something that would cause the death of an unsuspecting and defenseless animal is not a sport
Bucco- I would honestly rather get a wisdom tooth pulled than to watch soccer.
I like the Premiere League—England’s league. Very entertaining
I watch the Euros and World Cup and it’s not the same, at least to me. A lot of diving and acting, a lot of false patriotism from the multi millionaires on each team, and FOX provides the worst studio analysts there are
They say FIFA, the governing body of the sport, is the most corrupt in the world. More so than the IOC and NCAA? That’s saying something
But I agree, Bucco. This has been an incredible waste of time for me. But I’ve watched this long. It’s either this or watching the paint dry
Santana was ok last night. Not really his fault. He didn’t out the Manfred runner on 2b. Groundball stike out weak as blop hit. He gave up a hard drive to CF. Not want pitchers want. Not a easy catch by no means but why is Taylor here if not to catch that ball? Taylor 2 years ago maybe even last year catches that. Guy is toast.
That guy who is toast is in tonight’s game and I continue to question the reason for that
For a team that has playoff aspirations, they certainly don’t choose their lineups wisely
Only one run scored over the last 13 innings, no matter how good Skenes pitches tonight, they will still probably lose
What would have been so wrong in bunting Taylor over to second instead of allowing Palacios to swing away?
This is yet another example of the lack of fundamentals this team refuses to use.
And this is a result of Shelton’s poor managerial style
Dream- Shops were closed on July 4th..Did you get your simian assistant today?
Hopefully,Tired is not hurt that you unassistanted him.
It’s ok, Mendoza. I’m looking to sell reverse mortgages in small towns and to come out of retirement to get into a player development role soon
Dream can’t afford me anymore
It’s like Tellez, Taylor, Grandpal and Jack have all been reading the comments here and dedicated tonight to TheMan3
(Just a little humor, my friend)
Since June 26 Taylor has a .625 batting average. My analytics say that if he sustains that average the Pirates will not only make the playoffs but win the division.
Joe looks like his old all star self.
I already told you Grandpal is ready to take off.
My boy Rowdy is still smoking hot.
Jack has been below average for about a month now which is much better than awful.
#SlumpOver
#Get your season tickets now so you will have guaranteed playoff tickets.
100 to win 27 grand. Not as good as the 50 grand I got earlier in year but still a plus bet.
Cue Jim Bouton, Dream
So here’s a question. How does Skenes not make the all star team? Not that I want him to. But how?
Because Manfred is a idiot. Only reason he wouldn’t make it.
Jesse Winker should be the Pirates number one RF target. Not the best player available but I was doing a work up on him and he just screams Pirates. Left bat pnc nuff said. Not a good or fast outfielder, pnc park nuff said. Looks to walk so he is their type. Crushes RHP. Holds his own vs LHP but if you use Joe you have a all star! His numbers could drop a bit which will scare some teams off. 2 month rental. Cheap to aquire and perfect for pnc.
Winker is a Pirates killer so they know him well. But he’s not the guy who’s going to push them forward. You’re right—he’s the type they’ll go after
The Pirates scored 14 last night. Wonderful
Let’s see them carry the hitting for a few series before we say TheMan3 is wrong
And I didn’t “claim” Selleck. I’m not as old as him nor do I use as much Just For Men. But it’s a nice alternative to being one of the Grumpy Old Men. Mustache. Somewhat brown hair. I even hit left handed like he did in that classic, Mr Baseball
Domo origato, my friend
F that mr baseball movie hitting. Go watch the real deal vs a mlb pitcher
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j…
I prefer The Natural, although it strays greatly from Malamud’s book
Or Field of Dreams
Or even Pride of the Yankees
Get outside and get some fresh air today, Dream. Put the video games down. Quit lighting sparklers—the kids are no longer impressed. Have a Corona and a nice, cheap cigar
I actually remembered that clip, Dream. Selleck was a star athlete at Michigan State. A lot like me, who was a star athlete in my mind
or “ for the love of the game “
another baseball movie starring Kevin Costner
The movie “ 42” about Jackie Robinson is also a good movie
in my drinking days, it was a quart of Jack Daniels and perhaps a joint if my drug test wasn’t approaching
But I quit drinking any form of alcohol in 1992 and haven’t touched it since
Weed on the other hand, occasionally but not as often as I have in the past
I have a state medical marijuana card but what is available isn’t worth taking.
I used to make brownies so there wasn’t a need to smoke it
Major league might be my fav. Good movie. Funny. Quotes. And they don’t make good comedies nowadays. I sound like I am ready to join the space cowboys. That movie was awful. But I prefer older movies vs anything made today. 80s 90s 2000s. The later you get into the 2010s the worse it gets. This decade is garbage. Don’t think I been to a movie theater this decade.
Money ball 2nd fav. Field of dreams 3rd. Love of game and 42 good movies. Just not as rewatch able as the top 3. But I recommend watching them as they are good.
Documentaries fastball and knuckleball are excellent. Kens burns baseball.
All I can think of. I am not a sandlot fan. That’s number 1 or top 3 for lots I think its overrated. Bull Durham is alright but overrated. Mr baseball is pretty meh. The babe is pretty bad. Major league 2 is ok and even pretty good but huge drop from 1st one. Never watched the others.
You guys probably have a soft spot for Pride of the Yankees as it was the first baseball movie you saw in theaters.
I got a bit today. I work 24 7 though. Not that I don’t have fun or sleep. Just if something gets in my head to do I do no matter what time. I don’t lay in bed for hours trying to sleep. When I am close to passing out I sleep. If I wake up I get up. If I feel like a nap I nap. Takes me 20 30 minutes to go to sleep when I nap vs 5 10 minutes when I sleep. I had a gf who no matter what time of day, whether tired or not could nap and be out in like 3 minutes. I was so jealous.
My grandsons loved Sandlot.
You’re right about modern movies and it’s because the creativity is gone. It’s all superheroes and Marvel comics and cgi coming out the ears. But every generation is different. I look at the younger generation as the hope of the country, truly, as they care and see things as they are. But not where music and entertainment are concerned
As Bruce Willis said in Glitter Man, and tough guy told him he wanted to hear him scream, “Play some rap music”
Your work ethic resembled mine from the time I was 16. I sweated blood in any endeavor. And it’s why I say to you that retirement isn’t all it’s cracked up to be
Only so many projects I can undertake around the house. Only so much landscaping can do
But time waits for no one. Live long and prosper, my friend
One game doesn’t make a slump over but what an impressive performance by this team
I have to admit that I was wrong about Palacios, Taylor and Grandal
Reynolds, Tellez and Skenes stole the spotlight but every player contributed
But how do you figure Joe is back to his all star self, he didn’t play last night
Did you take notice that I said I was wrong, Dream?
Impressive. Standing ovation.
Joe is batting .316 last 2 weeks. Said it again so Tom and Ted could see. He is back! I don’t worry about slumps until after 2 months. I did a research report one time and it is so common for players to have slumps. MVPs and Hall of Famers aren’t even immune. Can be over 2 months. Even entire season. But 1 or 2 months is so common. Wasn’t worried about Joe at all. Worried about Hayes back though. Sounding like a career long problem.
Connor Joe is hardly an MVP candidate nor does he have a chance of being inducted into the Hall of Fame, but I get your point and that includes your opinion of Hayes
I watched him swing the bat this year and watched videos of his swing last year and it’s not nearly the same. Last season he lifted his left foot well off his ground at the same time he swung the bat
He’s barely lifting it this year
He’s a bench player, nothing more, and on a good team he’s likely invaluable. He’s not designed to play 80-90% of games but he plays for the Pirates. Enough said
He’s no all-star, even if you pair him with different players. Jeez.
Definitely all star with other player. 800 ops is all star.
Just looked up his 2024 stats .287 average .365 on base .479 slugging .843 ops. Yep definitely all star worthy numbers.
Cue Jim Bouton here, Dream. Maybe bright eyes would agree but sheesh
It’s a sad pathetic state of your organization when a aging actor training for a movie has a better approach, makes better decisions and has better strike zone knowledge than half the players on your roster and 90 percent of your prospects.
Selleck > Haines
Unfortunately he probably makes 50x more stealing seniors homes than Nutting would pay.
Yeah, those ads are kind of over the top. And predatory. “This isn’t my first rodeo”. Yeah. Ok
Approach? You’ve seen Mr Baseball
Suwinski should watch, and have a notepad handy for both batting tips and a little Japanese. Could all come in handy