7:47AM: The trade has been officially announced.
TODAY, 7:25AM: The Nationals will be acquiring right-handed pitching prospect Tyler Stuart in the trade, The Athletic’s Will Sammon reports (via X). Stuart was a sixth-round pick in the 2022 draft, and he has a 3.96 ERA, 25.4% strikeout rate, and 5.6% walk rate in 84 innings for Double-A Binghampton this season. The 6’9″ righty was a reliever at Southern Miss but has worked almost exclusively as a starter in his pro career, and MLB Pipeline (which ranks Stuart 17th in the Mets’ farm system) feels he’ll need to develop a third pitch beyond his solid slider and 94mph fastball in order to stick as a starting pitcher.
YESTERDAY: The Mets are poised to acquire outfielder Jesse Winker from the Nationals, according to ESPN’s Jeff Passan. As noted by Andrew Golden of The Washington Post, the deal is currently in place pending a physical. The return headed to D.C. in exchange for Winker’s services is not yet known.
Winker, 31 next month, was a first-round pick by the Reds back in 2012 and posted excellent numbers across five seasons with the club. From 2017 through 2021, Winker slashed .288/.385/.504 with a 132 wRC+ as the club’s regular left fielder, though he was generally protected from left-handed pitching during his years in Cincinnati. Even as he typically sat against southpaws, however, Winker’s ability to mash right-handed pitching earned him an All-Star nod back in 2021 when he posted a 148 wRC+ in 485 trips to the plate. Following the 2021 season, Winker found himself dealt to Seattle alongside Eugenio Suarez in a blockbuster that sent Justin Dunn, Jake Fraley, and Brandon Williamson to Cincinnati.
Upon departing the Reds, however, Winker began to struggle. A down season in Seattle where he posted a wRC+ of just 108 alongside a career-low isolated slugging percentage led the Mariners to deal Winker back to the NL Central following the 2022 campaign, this time alongside Abraham Toro in order to land second baseman Kolten Wong from the Brewers. Winker’s time in Milwaukee represented a low point for him, as he battled neck injuries and struggled badly when healthy enough to take the field. While Winker walked at his typically strong 13.2% clip with the Brewers, he hit .198 while mustering just one home run in 197 trips to the plate, leaving him with a 65 wRC+ that was 35% worse than league average last year.
That disastrous 2023 campaign led Winker to sign with the rebuilding Nationals on a minor league deal in his first trip through free agency last winter, and Winker found himself selected to the club’s Opening Day roster. While splitting time between left field and DH for the Nationals, Winker has rebounded back to the level of offense that was standard for him in his days with the Reds. In 100 games with Washington this year, he’s hit an impressive .253/.372/.417 with 11 home runs, 14 stolen bases, and a fantastic 14.1% walk rate in 376 trips to the plate this year.
Winker’s production still comes predominantly against right-handed pitching, against whom he sports a 138 wRC+ on the year, but he’s improved substantially against southpaws this year to post a roughly average 93 wRC+ against them. That’s a major step up from his career year in 2021 when he posted a wRC+ of just 57 against lefties.
For the Mets, Winker appears unlikely to be an everyday player given the presence of J.D. Martinez as the club’s regular DH and Brandon Nimmo patrolling left field on an everyday basis. With usual center fielder Harrison Bader currently dealing with an ankle injury, it’s possible that Winker could see some starts in left field with Nimmo sliding over to center while Bader is injured. Both Nimmo and Winker also have sporadic experience in right field through their careers as well, meaning the Mets could look to install each into an outfield corner on either side of Bader while Starling Marte is on the injured list in a move that would likely push Jeff McNeil either out of the lineup or back onto the infield dirt.
Regardless of how often Winker figures to be in the Mets lineup, he’s sure to provide a boost to the club’s offense. DJ Stewart is currently being utilized as a defensively-limited bat off the bench in Queens but has delivered a wRC+ of just 95 with a .674 OPS against right-handed pitching. Winker’s 128 wRC+ and .834 OPS against right-handers both clear those marks easily, and it’s easy to imagine Winker being used in a similar role to the one Stewart has accumulated 184 trips to the plate in this year while bouncing between DH, the outfield corners, and even first base as needed.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
cainer18
This probably leaves them out on Michael Conforto. Really hoping the Giants can eat his salary and flip him for anything
YourDreamGM
Should have no problem if they sell and they probably should.
EasternLeagueVeteran
Conforto coming back would have felt like Willie Mays returning to NY, or Rusty Staub, or Lee Mazzilli returning to the Mets.
Maybe not a bad idea, since Mays (1973) and Mazzilli (1986) returned coincided with pennant winning teams.
Rsox
This might be the only time in Conforto’s life he’s ever mentioned in any comparison to Willie Mays, ever.
Here in reality Conforto’s coming back to the Mets would probably be about as impactful as Kelly Johnson or Jay Bruce…
mlbgeek
lol exactly
Rishi
In all fairness (for the record) Johnson was respectable (even good) with NYM (something like 300 AB with about 105 OPS+,and position flexibility) and Bruce had one very decent hitting season with NYM. Either of those outcomes would improve the Mets as a team (granted Bruce had his struggles too). Kinda just randomly threw Kelly Johnson under the bus.
Blue Baron
EasternLeagueVeteran: Or Dave Kingman or Carlos Gomez.
EasternLeagueVeteran
Hey, it is OBVIOUSLY a moot point. I used the words “would have felt like” because it wasn’t going to happen.
The Mets are bringing in Winker, who will probably have an impact closer to Cespedes than to Johnson or Uribe, to reference other previous near deadline deals of a recent past pennant year.
It has been the Mets history to bring back some of the NY favorites of past teams.
Maybe to please fans who can dust off their old souvenir jerseys and engage in the game again.
Or maybe it’s to sell more of those same jerseys they left in storage, lol.
Blue Baron
EasternLeagueVeteran: If you follow baseball in general and not just the Mets, you’ll see that every team does the same thing.
TheGr8One
I’m in Seattle and I’ll take Conforto. I wanted him in the offseason I feel his game fits Safeco (f-u T-Mobile it’s still the Safe) very well.
Paleobros
Yeah wooo! Go go go insurance company over a wireless company!!!
crazybaseballgal
No on Conforto in Seattle. I followed him in SF which is easier than TMobile.
User 1404051815
Somewhere, DreamGM is calling this an “A+ trade”
YourDreamGM
A+ bat. Have to see what they gave up. Huge blow for Pirates. He helps any team but not as much as he would for Pirates. Guy is perfect for them and PNC. Lots of other options available still.
User 1404051815
And most of them in Oakland
YourDreamGM
All over. Thomas in Washington. Ward Pillar LA. Mullens Mountcastle Baltimore although after Hayes trade and Eflin they could be staying. Cruz Miami. Siri Tampa. Canha Detroit but doesn’t move the needle. Same with Pham Chicago. They can get creative too with veteran for veteran. Or Pivot back to Oakland with 1 more offer see if you entice them.
User 1404051815
Load up the truck and make the obvious deal(s). The Pirates have enough depth. Time to fill in the blanks with the big club
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
An A+ bat would be Aaron judge, an A bat would be vlad junior
It would not be fair to compare winkers season (cant face lefty’s) to a star
I’d give B+ bat maximum compared to the other people who have/could be traded
User 1404051815
Yeah, he’s having a “good season”….so far. His last fully good season was 2021. How he moves the needle for the Mets is anyone’s guess
But this time of year, fans fall over themselves for these moves
YourDreamGM
Don’t think Judge is available. Winker is. All star vs RHP. Serious contenders platoon. He’s average against LHP and they can pinch hit him in key moments. Similar to how they used Voglebach who was awful vs LHP. Winker much better.
YourDreamGM
Gms don’t care about past. Only future. He improved his body and mind in off-season. New man.
ExileInLA 2
He’s moving the needle by being better than DJ Stewart, who will be optioned.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Winker is a quirky dude. He will have run-ins with the fans for sure. He likes to pull pranks on them. I wonder how he will fare under the intense NY media glare? He might really wig out.
Paleobros
He’s not an A+ bat or even an A bat, but he’s a bat! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
LongTimeFan1
@Paleobros,
He’s a definitive upgrade offensively with Marte on the shelf, career ..810 OPS, High OBP, plays hard. Mets fans will embrace him having been a Mets foil for years interacting with Mets fans while on field, a recipient of boos will now be flipped to cheers.
He’ll also be stolen base threat somehow managing 14/18 this season despite below average speed and not base stealer in prior years. This is another improvement over Stewart, and is defensive upgrade over him too.
Bill M
All true. But that doesn’t make him an A+ bat. He’s basically there as an improvement over Gamel, Stewart, and Taylor. A 4th outfielder who’ll get lots of playing time while Marte is out. I just hope he doesn’t cut into McNeil’s playing time. Jeff is suddenly red hot
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
All it takes is one brawl and the double birds will be showcased to his own fans
kylegocougs
Dude is a heel but honestly pretty entertaining
itstimefordodgersbaseball
It’s sad what this app has become with all the adds
hereallnight
I despise those pop-up game ads.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I use Brave browser. Ads disappear.
YourDreamGM
$29.89 a year and they disappear!
Access to member only articles. “Think like a gm”
SgtGrumbles
Easy solve, just subscribe. Honestly, it has to be one of the cheapest & best value subs for quality sports writing.
nosake
Agreed. And I also use Brave.
Cleon Jones
Use Firefox ad-block …..zero ads, zero …
I Believe We Can Win
Ad blockers web browsers help
SoCalBrave
What’s sad is how entitled you are.
Don’t want adds, pay up.
Don’t want to pay, put up with adds.
Reynaldo's
look into ad blockers; they’re essential for using the Internet
yeasties
agree but also support the content creators that you patronize to offset their loss of revenue
YourDreamGM
Noooooooooooooooo
mlbnyyfan
Mets should have tried for Gallo. Haha. Seriously though, I don’t think he moved the needle that much
YourDreamGM
Winker moved the needle for Pittsburgh. He is a all star vs RHP and they have Joe for all star vs LHP. PNC short right field is good for his swing and his lack of defensive range. Cherington messed up here. Depends on return. Even though he is perfect the Pirates playoff odds aren’t. Don’t want to get crazy this year especially for a 2 month rental.
DelraySteve
They wouldn’t win even if they added Crazy Joe Gallo!
teddyj
They wouldn’t win if they added “Shoeless Joe”
lowtalker1
lol, I’m sure he really didn’t want to come back to petco
MrLOLMet
C Beisbol & Ben Gamel
Adios
Acoss1331
Winker is having a solid season, depending on the return, which should be a decent one, this is a good move for the Mets. Nationals I’m sure would have loved to be able to flip Gallo at the deadline, but he’s having an awful season.
User 1404051815
Just a question. When was the last time Gallo *didn’t* have an awful season? I mean, seriously
Acoss1331
Right before he was traded to the Yankees he was decent enough. Cratered after that though…
BPG86
With a 128 .ops+, he’s having better than a solid season. He’s having what might be the best all around year of his career to this point.
User 1404051815
I’m old school. He’s hit above .180 once since 2020. Unless I’m wrong, he had a couple big hits for the Dodgers a while back. But I’m guessing analytics can make anyone look like an all star
Darkstar 2
You score runs by getting on base and accumulating bases.
How they are achieved is unimportant
A ton of singles is dramatically less valuable to a team than a ton of walks and home runs.
BA really is a meaningless stat. It nearly explains a portion of how guys got on base. In should be dropped completely, in the same way there’s no need to give BBavg and HBPavg and FCavg. All that’s needed to be known is the OBP because that’s ultimately all that actually matters from the PA
YourDreamGM
This isn’t my first rodeo. And let me tell you something. I wouldn’t be here if I thought analytics took advantage of any American senior. Or worse that it was some way to take your home. It’s just data designed for smarter front offices and it’s helped over a thousand teams. Analytics isn’t some kind of trick to take your home. It’s data like any other. The big difference is how accurate it is.
hiflew
That is such a condescending attitude. You might not like BA or use it for anything, but that doesn’t make it meaningless. The difference between BA and OBP shows the difference between how good the batter is (BA) and how bad the opposing pitcher was (walks/HBP). And fielder’s choice ABs do not contribute to OBP. They are outs regardless of who is left on base afterward.
SoCalBrave
@tiredolddude batting average alone isn’t a good way to look at players. Just like any single “analytic” stat. And no, analytics will not make anyone looke like an all-star. But they can help up understand why some players are better than we think, or worse than we think.
Darkstar 2
He got out what he put in as far as the condescending comment goes
The difference between BA and OBP does not show anything at all. You need additional information to find what you are claiming, and a much easier way to determine that is already readily available
Now BA can be used to determine how weak/powerful a guy is. But so few know what a poor/good ISO is that it’s not exactly useful to most. Just replacing BA with ISO in the slash line would make much more sense, as it would help educate other on what to look for.
And other than ISO to a select few, it just serves no real purpose at this point. The main outcome of it being provided still is getting people like the other commentator latching onto it as if it’s some important indicator of talent level when in actuality it tells almost nothing at all, and especially nothing of any true worth
Also, I intended SF there and not sure what happened. But an unimportant error, point was still made. That said, why not a FCavg though? Someone could make up some excuse to claim it’s worth in a similar manor to what’s done with BA, so why not just put it on the scoreboards too?
gbs42
Darkstar 2,
I’m with you. Over 150 years ago, it was determined BA was important. We now know better.
Doctors aren’t using leaches and hacksaws any more, so why should baseball statistics include BA?
Heidegger
This is the stupidest comment thread I’ve ever seen- young fools trying to claim they know something well enough to completely erase a stat from history. They are ALL useful, or they wouldn’t be recorded! These are the same imbeciles who claim that ERA+ and OPS+ tell you everything you need to know. Arrogance!!
If BA is so useless, why do teams with terrible BAs NEVER do well in the playoffs? And I mean NEVER. The last time an offensively outmatched team won the World Series with a significantly low relative BA to their opponents were the 95 Braves nearly 30 years ago- only because they had one of the best rotations ever! OBP alone doesn’t always paint that picture clearly, but BA does. Every stat is useful for some measure of performance.
Perhaps you should be listening more often than you preach!!
Heidegger
Something significant about BA in the modern game? Every winner of the LCS round going back to at least 2010 won the matchup when their regular season BA was within .006 points lower than their opponent or better. If their reg season BA was = or >.007 points lower- they lost. EVERY time.
OBP doesn’t always tell you the same thing, and no other stats are good predictors for that round. Each round of the playoffs is different, but for the LCS take that to the bank. Baseball is predictable- not random. It only appears random when you lack information. Getting rid of batting average would be a terrible mistake, because working these things out takes a lot of different information.
That is all. I’m not replying to further comments from this thread because I don’t have the time- I have the numbers worked out right in front of me from data I’ve exported from Fangraphs, and anyone can replicate it. If you have a problem go through the matchups of the LCS since 2010, take their regular season stats, and work it all out yourself and prove me wrong. It would be utterly stupid to call those statistics a complete coincidence.
Of course, GETTING to the LCS takes different qualities and stats rather than just batting average- batting average very often determines the victor of each LCS only after validation of other team qualities in the earlier rounds- but that’s for another discussion.
Good-day.
gbs42
Heidegger,
That’s quite a sermon!!
I’m not sure what qualifies as a “young fool,” but I’ve been around over half a century and have been playing and studying baseball since I was five years old.
Claiming that batting average shouldn’t be recorded certainly is hyperbolic, but it’s really not all that useful by itself except in very specific situations.
ERA+ and OPS+ don’t tell you everything. ERA alone is a flawed statistic, and normalizing it for era and ballpark only helps so much. OPS+ it’s pretty good, but since OBP and SLG aren’t on the same scale, simply adding them together isn’t right.
I would guess if you compared the World Series teams you were talking about, the team that won probably had the higher OBP as well as the higher BA.
I really don’t know what you mean when you say “OBP alone doesn’t always paint that picture clearly, but BA does.” OBP is the more useful stat at least 90% of the time.
I’ll step down from my pulpit now. 😉
gbs42
To summarize Heidegger’s second post:
“I found a small set of data that supports my view, so I’ll cite that, claim victory, and leave.”
With all that FG data, I would think comparing OBP for all those LCS matchups would be easy. And the fact that teams with lower BAs won some series is rather amusing and counters the “BA is best” argument.
Also, admitting BA isn’t necessarily what it takes to get to the LCS seems like a convenient hand waving.
Good day,
A not-so-young “young fool”
fivepoundbass
@Heidigger To your point, a walk never got a runner from first to third. A walk never scored a runner from third unless the bases were loaded. And for the stat guys, a single counts basically twice as much as a walk, because it increases both your OBP and your SLG. Some say there is no such thing as situational hitting. If that’s the case, why do they sometimes give walks away for free? Because in many situations, they are less damaging than a guy swinging the bat.
User 1404051815
Not sure where I was condescending unless you are in analytic data for a living but ok
As an old time player/coach/manager I’ve had the discussion about this many times with my friend, DreamGM
Let me cut to the chase. Your analytics are a weak substitute for the eye test. Period. They seek to provide meaningless drivel that often seem to say, “Don’t believe what you’re actually seeing”
No, batting average isn’t an indication of talent but rather, how an individual is performing. And I don’t need batting average information to tell me if a player is a good hitter. Apparently you do
Analytical data is ancillary, at best. It’s a deep dive that provides numbers that are often meaningless, such as leading some to believe Joey Gallo is a worthwhile target of a trade and me to wonder if analytic nerds ever played the game or even watch games
Condescending enough, junior?
User 1404051815
Congrats. You win moronic post of the day status. Perhaps the dumbest analogy of the year
gbs42
Yes, a single is better than a walk in the situations you mentioned. Those situations occur just part of the time.
“a single counts basically twice as much as a walk.” No, it doesn’t. Both events put a runner on first base.
Overall, a walk is about 78% as valuable as a single.
fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type=cn
gbs42
tiredolddude_,
I think your insult regarding the “moronic” and “dumbest” was directed at me, but you’ll have to be more specific for me to be certain. If so, you won the condescension award for at least this morning.
Ah, the classic “eye test” argument. Can you watch every PA from every game? How can you apply the eye test effectively if you can’t see everybody play? To quote another tired old dude, “Your eyes can deceive you, don’t trust them.”
User 1404051815
Dream, let me direct you to Mr Baseball, instead
You remember. Uchiyama *does* speak English, better than you as a matter of fact, and fixes the hole in Jack’s swing
You’d have been waving your analytics at the grand old manager, telling him that Jack is a Hall of Famer
You remember. Nakamura. The demanding owner. He wants to win and now. He speaks no English and somehow makes more sense than you. He doesn’t need your analytics. It’s about wins, losses and sushi for all
You continue to over-analyze what’s obvious. You’d even look for data when Jack asks you if you want to see naked pictures of your wife or when someone gives you a hot foot
Watch the movie again. Take notes
User 1404051815
“Leeches and hacksaws?” Really?
Batting averages are as antiquated?
And please note, my original posting here was “condescending” only to my friend, DreamGM. He could fill you in on the background of this particular conversation if he wasn’t busy playing his video games and analyzing his little league team’s data
Unfortunate that a few fans here took my comment about analytics so personally
Condescending begets condescending.
gbs42
t.o.d.,
How about horse and wagons? Mules and plows? Outhouses?
My point is, gathering and applying new knowledge is beneficial, and as better techniques come along, we phase out the less useful ones. It’s true in all walks of life, not just baseball.
User 1404051815
You’re missing the point. I’m not saying analytics are useless. I’m not saying they should be discarded completely. I’m simply saying they are anecdotal, ancillary
Jim Bouton had a very appropriate response to statistical data in 1969 when he said, “Tell your statistics to shut up”
I can only imagine what he’d have said about this era
gbs42
And I’m saying BA is ancillary. It’s of limited value, not to be discarded but applied in limited circumstances.
Bouton’s comment from 55 years ago carries very little weight with me. Certainly, non-statistical factors matter, which is a different discussion.
Among triple-slash stats, BA correlates with run scoring less well than OBP and SLG.
blogs.fangraphs.com/triple-slash-line-conundrum-vo…
User 1404051815
I like to think Bouton would be talking about all statistical data and noting that at the end of the day, either a guy can play and pitch or he can’t. No amount of statistics or analytics is going to make an average or below average player or pitcher appear to be an all star, that’s all
LongTimeFan1
@gbs42,
There’s no reason whatsoever to phase out B.A. It’s useful and informative and is one of two OBP components. Bat to ball skills matter, high BA speaks to an important skill that leads to runs..
Ichiro made a Hall of Fame career out of high BA. So too many great hitters like Rod Carew who only had 92 homers for his career. When the game is on the line, I’ll take a skilled hitter with high BA anytime over someone whose chances of getting a hit are poor. . I’ll take Carew over Kingman, Arráez over Gallo anytime.in a range of circumstance.
gbs42
LTF1,
That’s fair. I just think it’s important to acknowledge the triple-slash stats are not equally weighted, more like 15%/50%/35% overall, with the percentages shifting based on the situation.
Darkstar 2
Arlington is a bandbox so 2023 says nothing
2022, the tied for 13th ranked BA (merely 0.06 points over MLB Average) Astros beat the 9th highest BA Phillies
In 2021, the toed for 14th highest BA (with a perfectly MLB Average .244 mark) Braves beat the #1 ranked BA in Baseball Astros
So 2 of the last 3 WS winners have had a lower BA then the team they beat, including the games best BA losing to a perfectly MLB average club
And thats how we know you’re a moron
Darkstar 2
Your eye test is why Jo Adell is on a MLB roster. Analytics said long ago he sould not be called up
But it’s interesting to hear a “coach” say getting on base and getting yourself around bases is unimportant, while what’s important is how a guy looks to a select few people who insist they have have eyes that can determine things better than actual results do
Youre rather pathetic, honestly
LongTimeFan1
@gbs42,
Stats don’t have to be equally weighted to have value. It’s not either/or.
Getting on base through hitting the ball where fielders aren’t raises BA and isn’t obsolete like horse and buggy. It’s in fact a key component of putting pressure on the opposition, and run generation. It’s an SUV whereas BB’s are 4-door sedans. Across a full season, batting average accounts for OBP more than walks. Few players walk a 100 times a year let’s say in 550 PA’s, but many have more than 100 hits, and each one of those hits raises OBP.
I’ll finish this post with a question and comment.. Would Pete Alonso prefer to be batting ..241 right now or .320. with his 20 homers? It’s a good bet he’d have more RBIs and the Mets more runs if he had the higher BA. In 2023, Luis Arraez had .393 OBP with only 35 BB’s and just 34 K’s. The meat and potatoes of that OBP was from his 202 hits contained in his .354 batting average over 147 games,
User 1404051815
And you, a coward who’s adept at scrawling insults from his mother’s basement. Pathetic? No, what’s pathetic is some numbers nerd who never played the game feeling empowered by his knowledge of the meaningless.
Hamsters have more brains. And more sense
This marks the second time you either misinterpreted or misrepresented my comments. I’m taking it that winning juvenile, petty debates on message boards is your thing, and by any means possible.
Life’s too short for interactions with idiots. Go back to playing your video games and living in your alternate reality.
If we put your brain in a bird, the bird would fly backwards
Darkstar 2
“a single counts basically twice as much as a walk, because it increases both your OBP and your SLG.”
That’s an unbelievably stupid statement that shows zero knowledge of how runs are scored
But yes, singles are included in both OBP and SLG …hence BA being such a redundant, useless stat. It’s not needed. It tells you nothing that you need to know. OBP you need to know, SLG you need to know, ISO could be argued you need to know. How often a guy got a single? That is of zero importance to anything at all
But there’s an easier way to settle all this – by asking you to tell us the worth of guys based off BA
Like does 2022 .318 BA and 2023 .272 BA make Maikel Garcia a great hitter? The BAs indicate yes, correct?
Andrew Benintendi hit .276 and .304 in 2021 and 2022, smart to lock him up into a long term deal, right?
Amed Rosario posted lines of .287, .282 and .283 from 2019-2022. Surely he’ll be a star for years to come, right?
Maybe you can tell how little BA is telling you by now?
Darkstar 2
Ohhhh. Well you claim on the internet you played the game, and therefore understand things better than actual statistical results ever could tell anyone. Congrats, tiredolddude_, you are clearly the best baseball mind there is
Now all you have to do is convince all the owners that the anti analytics teams are actually the good ones, and that advanced statistics need to be removed from front offices if they really want to succeed. Because all it really takes to build a winner is your amaxing eye …an eye that is so impeccable because you claim you played the game before
Btw, you have no idea my playing history, education, or profession. You just randomly make up whatever to dismiss what you don’t want to accept and clutch onto your ignorant, nonsensical stances
As I said, you’re just pathetic
Mendoza Line 215
Darkstar-Keep up the dark work.
Wrong.
BA is still a very useful stat.It is a basic one but just because it has been used for over 140 years does not mean it is useless.
Yes,there are a number of other meaningful stats now and OBP is one of them.
Tell me though,your team is tied and there are two outs in the bottom of the ninth, with a man on second base.Would you rather have your hitter hit a single or walk?If you say walk,you don’t know what you are talking about.But if you did,would you rather have your next hitter hit a single or walk?If you say walk again,you really do not know what you are talking about.What about if you have a man on first and no outs in the ninth.Would you rather have a single or walk?
Do you see my progression?
Just because there are relatively new and shiny stats does not mean that the old ones are meaningless.
I will be waiting for the HOF to change the stats shown on the HOF plaques.
User 1404051815
I’m not even bothering to read his blather, MendozaLine. It’s like arguing with a snot nosed 6th grader on the playground. Cries about being insulted and then pees all over his shoes in front of the crowd
Life’s too short to deal with embarrassments
His started at birth
Mendoza Line 215
Gbs- It doesn’t have to be one or the other,it can be both.
Unfortunately those who want to use only the new and shiny stats are missing out on the usefulness of the old ones which are definitely not antiquated.
They just are not the only testaments that are useful anymore.
And to compare them to the old time measures generally previously used shows that you just do not get the point.
I am not sure that this is condescension but it could be.
nick1218
what a laughably dumb comp
Mendoza Line 215
Gbs- Disagree on the %’s of this one too,but give you kudos for the post.
I would say 25/30/45 for Avg,Obp,and OPS.
JackStrawb
Shh. They want to yap about how putting the ball in play moves runners along more than walks do, without acknowledging the huge cost of double plays resulting from putting balls in play.
JackStrawb
Actually there are dozens of stats that taken alone are far more valuable, far more informative than BA. Try just wRC+, for one. OPS+ for another…
JackStrawb
Got it. Coincidence is proof!!
Some “Heidegger.”
gbs42
LTF1,
I’m not saying stats need to be equally weighted to have value. BA has some limited value.
Of course BA contributed more to OBP than walks. I’m not saying walks are as important as hits. I said earlier they’re historically about 78% as valuable. I’m saying OBP is more important than BA in most situations.
A side point: A ball in play results in a hit about 28%-30% of the time. That’s been the average BABIP (batting average on balls in play) for a very long time. And it can lead to a double play, force out, or other negative outcome. A walk results in a runner reaching first base 100% of the time, which is always positive. No, a ball in play isn’t necessarily a hit, but attempting a hit isn’t always the best decision.
Would Alonso prefer to be batting .241 or .320? Everyone would take the .320 BA. If those extra hits all replaced outs, he’d have a much higher OBP and almost certainly more XBH.
I’m not arguing against hits and a high BA being a good thing. I’m arguing that overall OBP is more important than just BA.
The currency of baseball is runs and outs. Get the most of the former as you can before using up three of the latter. Hits, walks, HBP, etc. help score runs and avoid out. Get on base – and ideally with thump so you can get into scoring position – as often as possible.
gbs42
Mendoza,
Your examples are specific instances where a hit is a much better outcome than a walk. A hit is pretty much always preferred to a walk, just not as much as many people think. Walks historically have contributed about 78% as much to overall run scoring as hits.
You’re conflating two different arguments. OBP is better than BA because it includes hits and walks – and other ways to reach base. OBP is more complete and correlates better with run scoring because it describes all the ways a batter avoids getting out, which is a huge part of the game. BA tells a smaller part of the story.
The HOF argument is silly. They’re about history, and BA was created long ago. That still doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a great way to evaluate a hitter’s overall contributions.
gbs42
“I’m not even bothering to read his blather…”
Translation: I’m stubbornly sticking to my perspective, unwilling to learn about, discuss or accept new knowledge,
gbs42
Mendoza,
I definitely was hyperbolic when I said BA shouldn’t be cited any more. It has value, just not as much as was previously thought.
If the point you say I’m missing is that BA is still useful, I’ll agree it has it uses. If I’m missing another point, I’d honestly and without condescension would like to know what you mean.
gbs42
Mendoza,
I was spitballing the %, and they change depending on the team’s need at the time.
Tie game, bottom of the ninth, two outs and a speedy runner on second base? Give me Arraez over Schwarber because just about any hit will win the game.
Down one, bottom of the ninth, slow runner on first? I’d prefer Schwarber to have the chance to end the game with a homer or walk and move that runner 90 feet closer to scoring. The two batters have similar OBP, so both are siimilarly likely to get the slow runner to second via a hit or walk, but Schwarber is much more likely to crush the ball over the fence and win the game.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Winker and JD Martinez are not going to see eye to eye. Winker doesn’t like to put in the work. He would rather goof off and prank the fans. The Mariners clubhouse grew tired of his antics.
Armaments216
@ignorantSOB – things may have gone wrong in Seattle, but what you’re describing is pretty much the exact opposite of what the Nats’ manager and players are saying about their experience with Winker.
Flanster
Winker in, Stewart or Gamel out!!!
EasternLeagueVeteran
Stewart is probably gone. Not having a great season. One of Buck’s men, while Gamel is one of Stearns men. Gamel a little more defensively flexible, too.
Not great reasons, just possible underlying reasons.
MrLOLMet
You were right, sent down to Syracuse
MrLOLMet
I think Gamel. Unless they get Washington to take Stewart for the years of control. I liked Gamel in Seattle but he’s hitting worse than Stewart. Then Jackie Bradley Jr will likely take the other spot.
Nats ain't what they used to be
One down, next up Thomas and Finnegan.
TheGr8One
Proof that Seattle is where hitters come to die. All star/deadline pickup sandwiching the most brutal stretch of his career. Claim to fame in Seattle was when he charged the opponents dugout lol
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
It wasn’t just Seattle, somehow Milwaukee was even worse, brewers fans treat him like the antichrist
BPG86
I’ll go to my grave saying that he was so bad in Seattle because of the neck injury that required a disc removal the following offseason. Once he got fully healed headed into this season, he continued showing why he’s a very solid overall lefty hitter.
Stevil
Somebody should have told Robles. Poor guy had no idea and he’s raking.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
As Pete Alonso said LFGM!!!
jkoko
Such a met move
kingmanscorner
A good one……
Benjamin101677
Although I think this is a okay move I don’t think it’s the move that takes the Mets to a deep post season favorite. Mets need some more trades if they are going really try and make a run this year
Samuel
“Although I think this is a okay move I don’t think it’s the move that takes the Mets to a deep post season favorite.”
Benjamin101677;
You may well be correct. However, keep in mind……
David Stearns is now in charge of the Mets roster. He’s baseball smart, and no one is more aware of that than Dave Dombrowski. Rather than the bombastic (Yankee-type) moves that Mets fans have been waiting for (and that Stephan Cohen had Billy Eppler make), Stearns has been making subtle moves since the end of the 2023 season. As Dombrowski has done with the Phillies, if something isn’t working out in a reasonable amount of time he’ll cut the cord with a player (or manager / coach) and bring in someone else.
Mr. Stearns has been making the same sneaky – almost under-the-radar type moves that he did with the Brewers. No one move seems to be particularly significant, but the cumulative effect is that the team on the field is slowly performing better.
In Dombrowski’s second year with the Phillies – while the average fan on here was citing this and that shortcoming with the team – Dombrowski kept his eye on the prize……that MLB is a playoff league. The objective is to get into the playoffs, and peak at that time.
As of today the Mets qualify for a playoff spot. A long ways to go. That may change.
Dombrowski had the Phillies in the playoffs his second year. The team went to the WS. Stearns may be ahead of DD as this is his first season at the helm of the Mets.
Don’t look now NYC baseball fans, but as the Yankees continue with their eye-candy juicy player moves, the Mets have become a professional MLB operation that is about to win over the undecided NYC baseball fan.
TheGr8One
100% agree with everything you said until the end. Show me an “undecided” NYC fan and I’ll show you a Knicks fan who thinks WHIP is what you do to dat @$$
User 401527550
Are you serious? There’s millions of New Yorkers who flip flop depending on what team is good.
Flanster
True,but you can’t really call them fans
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Mets need a stud SP, period! Even if they make the playoffs, their Top 3 SP are no match for the Phillies or Dodgers. A trade for a stud SP is the only one that warrants trading several top prospects.
Samuel
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher;
Look…..
It’s year one of David Stearns. It’s not like they need to win the WS this year because their window is closing, so they empty out any quality young players they can use in the future.
The first step is making the playoffs and getting some experience in them. The youngsters they have in the pipeline will be with them for years as they become a sustainable contender.
In short, they’re nowhere near one or two starting pitches away from being able to compete with the Phillies or Dodgers. In fact, let’s put it another way: They go out on a limb and trade their future for a “stud SP”. OK. What happens when he 1) Gets injured or 2) Goes up against a team in the playoffs and loses the game? Go back to square one and spend 2 more years replacing the quality prospects you traded?
LFGMets (Metsin7) #ConsistentlyBannedBaseballExpert
Grea trade! A+ for Stearns. Winker was exactly who I wanted the Mets to trade for. Now all we need is a lockdown reliever (Alexis Diaz or Camillo Doval), and another starting pitcher (Would prefer Snell but thats unrealistic so I’d be fine with Fedde or even a buy low candidate like Bobby Miller)
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
You’ve been lying in bed at night hoping the Mets trade for Winker? You know, there are meds you can take for that condition.
nick1218
what is wrong with you?
hiflew
I remember when he was with the Reds, he got into a thing with a bunch of left field fans when they played the Mets. I think it was all in fun, but I wonder if Mets fans remember it that way.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Mets fans remembered to boo Pete Rose for years after he upended Harrelson. Same was true of Utley whose hard slide was over-the-top bush league. But neither Rose nor Utley ever came back to play for the Mets.
YourDreamGM
Reporters took the night off. Don’t wake me up for Winker.
Mendoza Line 215
Dream- Is Winker your man or not?
I am not a fan but understand the rationale in getting him for the rest of this season to platoon in right field for the Pirates.,It does not seem to me that the Mets gave up a whole lot.
I am hoping that Mountcastle and/or Rooker are being saved for the deadline because they are in the most demand.
The acquisition of Winker would at least have shown that the Pirates were trying to win this year.
Cherington is on a timer of 48 hours.
YourDreamGM
My man. A strong platoon so basically plays everyday with rest days included.
Mets gave up a beast of a man 6 9 250 wow. Backend starter if he can better develop a 3rd pitch if not a reliever. Doesn’t throw the hardest so not my favorite prospect in that tier but excellent command. I can’t think of a good pirates comp. But they could have traded 2 players right? Rizzo is old school listen to the scouts guy and a scout himself so if he fell in love with this guy it’s pretty much over. But Winker was perfect for bucs.
bjhaas1977
Bad trade in my opinion but at least DJ isn’t striking out anymore.
YourDreamGM
Winker is in demand. To trade him this early and if I could only have 1 prospect I would want Jonah Tong a pitching prospect I really like. Rizzo though is more old school and can fall in love with a lot of Mets guys. And majority of trades are quantity trades. I am a fan of quantity as well but not going to build a multi player trade for Winker. Mets have so many interesting A ball an DR prospects they can get Winker or any rental without touching one of there AAA AA or even high A prospects. Mets fans will be happy it’s not a top 10 guy. Might be unranked by sites or im the 20’s but I think it’s going to be painful. Just not a lot of lefty bats available.
TheGr8One
Jonah tong for Winker? That’s silly season bro Winker is serviceable at best. Pretty sure trading him 2 days before the deadline isn’t early. I mean you use a lot of fancy words to make really irrelevant points. Cmon man you put on a rep way better than your contribution. Winker is in demand? That’s ass talk.
I’m about to get killed because a guy with a checkmark thinks he knows all. Wait for it. There it is.
YourDreamGM
The trade was done on Saturday so Saturday Sunday Monday Tuesday. That seems like more than 2 days. How can I talk advanced scouting with someone who can’t even count? I’m not going to. But Winker brought back a top 30 prospect. Top 20 by some. Ok so I didn’t name the exact guy but I never claimed I would. I simply named a player in that tier that I liked the most. Rizzo liked someone else. There was like 30 options so odds were we wouldn’t want the same guy or that the Mets would be willing to part with all of them. I think I was spot on with Winkers value but whatever.
Reynaldo's
Don’t Mets fans hate this guy?
Sayhay88
Not anymore
rct
We did until about a few hours ago, haha.
Johnny utah
This will surely negate muts inability to keep any star pitcher healthy
Wonder what the return is. Probly half the farm that muts worked so hard to acquire/develop
YourDreamGM
I would be surprised. Stearns is sharp. Other gms and certainly previous Mets gms I think would part with a Tong McLean Suarez Ziegler Garcia Morris. Any one of those would be a fantastic return. Rizzo probably found some teen at even lower levels that he loves. I think it will be high ceiling talent but far away. A highly regarded international signing that maybe hasn’t got of to a hot start. 2 smart gms though so don’t see half the farm or getting Winker for free. Just a fair trade.
Johnny utah
Pardon my exaggeration, obv not half the farm.
But for 2 months of winker, if they move someone like tong, that would be a huge mistake. But ye definitely something previous gms would easily do. Stearns has had a very cautious approach so far.
YourDreamGM
I love Tong. Love all those arms. Mets are stacked with young arms. And got some bats too. Nice system. I think in this market and with so few bats Winker is worth that and a lesser gm in win now mode would do it. Don’t think Mets will. Got a gut feeling it’s some DR league teenager Rizzo fell in love with. Mets system is stacked. Can get anyone they want without trading someone above A ball.
Johnny utah
They’ve drafted well past few yrs. Solid vet trades last yr for prospects. Need to do better at development tho. All top prospects either hurt this yr or under performing. Keep these kids dont trade em, mets could be like O’s next season & beyond
User 401527550
They haven’t drafted well the last few years. Most of their top picks look like busts.
Don'tBeDumb
Johnny you were absolutely intent on calling this a bad trade before you knew the return, now your lamenting the loss of the 17th ranked pitcher in the season… You’re the biggest mutt
YourDreamGM
I didn’t name him because he isn’t one of my favorites but he is is that same range. I am ok with this trade. I’d rather give up more safe than upside so think Mets got a great bat for a arm they can afford to lose.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Hope it isn’t Acuna.
Seaver rules
It’s good to get a guy that is a thorn in your side which Winker has been to the Mets many times. Welcome to the team and the pennant race Winker.
Tomas7
I hope they’re working on getting another halfway decent, healthy, starting arm.
LordD99
Massive clubhouse problem player by reports over the years.
TheGr8One
To your point he wasn’t loved in Seattle but wasn’t hated. Then he charged the other teams dugout and had nicknames and merch flying off the shelf. Teammates would have stood in front of a train for him after that. Point is fans and players will tolerate a lot “looking at you Mr Bonds” if the onfield product is there. Jazz rated by the players as being the most overrated player in the league and he’s now with the most storied franchise in baseball. It’s a funny game and that’s why we love it.
This one belongs to the Reds
He was loved in Cincinnati. Not sure what happened in Seattle. Maybe him and the manager and/or front office didn’t see eye to eye.
YourDreamGM
Was Stearns still in Milwaukee when they had Winker? If so he would know. Or if he wasn’t he could easily find out. Winker won’t be a problem.
DonkeyBoy
“Reports” aka “I made it up”
He had 1 documented dispute, and by and large has been known as a great teammate otherwise.
Smacky
Mets added a another Wanker…
Quinnap89
It’s an ok move, they need starting pitching if they want to continue this run up the standings. Senga has been a major disappointment and as usual a huge waste of money by the Mets.
TheGr8One
That’s exactly right it’s an ok move. Not all moves are fancy. He’s an improvement it’s a move you make. I’d absolutely take this Winker over the Winker Seattle got. We thought he was the headliner of that deal turns out it was Geno Suarez lol
Quinnap89
The implication wasn’t that it was a fancy move. Clearly it wasn’t lol, it’s Jesse Winker for gods sake. What I am saying is SPing is much more valuable than a guy who will see limited playing time since Martinez has been good at DH.
raisinsss
Your take on Senga is hilarious. Thanks.
Eatdust666
True, because if he was really a disappointment, he would not have finished second place in the NL Rookie of the Year voting last year just behind Corbin Carroll, who has been an absolute disaster this season and also would not have gotten any Cy Young votes (earned 16, 3 more than Orioles ace Corbin Burnes).
Quinnap89
To be fair senga has made one start after being on the IL all year and now his season is most likely over. So also a disaster. It’s sad but this is just the Mets. SP signings just never go well for them.
Quinnap89
Hilarious? Yes he was second in the ROY. This year he made one start and is now done for the year. It sucks but this sophomore year has been a disaster for him. All I was saying was large contract SP’s just don’t work out for NY. But luckily they really haven’t needed him. But a SP would be great to land since they have turned there season around.
nick1218
1 excellent season, 1 lost, rest of the contract is a good price for the team. Settle back and watch how good a signing this is come 25 and 26
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
As long as the Mets didn’t give up a lot to get Winker, adding him can’t hurt. A better bench bat than Stewart. Nice insurance in case Marte’s return is delayed. Citi Field not as good a hitters’ park as Washington. Gotta hope a move to a pitchers’ park, like his move to Seattle, doesn’t hurt him.
Mc Neil is finally heating up. DO NOT want to see him out of the line up in favor of Winker.
raisinsss
He slots as the starting RF right now. He’s been about average against LHP this far this season, though Taylor will get those starts prob. Marte is an unknown.
Positively Half St
I guess I only missed half a trade overnight. I hope the groans about the Pirates missing out on Winker reflect that there was actually competition for him, and that the Mets needed to sweeten the pot in order to seal the deal a few days early.
User 1404051815
The groans come from DreamGM. Winker was never going to move the needle here much like he probably won’t in NY, either.
letmeclearmythroat74
Anyone find it interesting that before this year Winker has a career total of 3 stolen bases. Somehow , now , at age 31 he adds speed to his game ? ??? 14 stolen bases … this year alone.
His time in Cincy he was considered a liability on the base paths.
JonesyMcGee
Winkers been playing well, probably a good get for the Metropolitans.
Wild ass guess on the return, Calvin Ziegler and another non Mets top 10 prospect.
raisinsss
Josh Walker, Houser, a A+ flyer and the $ to pay them.
😀
JonesyMcGee
Well, aside from Ziegler, Walker, Houser, an A+ flyer and $, we were close!
icantstandyous
Well who knew Cohen is really Fred coupons in disguise. The only reason why they got winked is because he only costs $1mm and contract is up after this year. Cohen and Stearns aren’t putting the best effort to put the best talent on the field. No they want to turn a profit so cohen can move on to his next venture, a dumb casino in flushing. Good on you mate. Let’s see if this turns out better than Naquin Ruf or fat boy. Mets will always be losers. Meanwhile my team got Chizx baby.
raisinsss
The best part of this comment is that it lets everyone know that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Flanster
….and that he’s a loudmouth Yankees fan.
icantstandyous
Oh yea. You have no pitching whatsoever. Nothing in the minors even respectable and your little genius boy GM is trading away pitching prospects for a never has been scrub who doesn’t hit against anyone but the Mets! Bahahaha good on you mate!!!!!
raisinsss
See my previous comment.
mahalkita
This is a rebuild retooling season. They aren’t going for the big fish right now. We were promised a competitive team and that’s what we have.
raisinsss
I picked him to go to the Mets. It’s wonderful.
For funny baseball reasons (in contrast to Chase Utley-type reasons), he’s always been a nemesis of the Mets.
I think he adds 3-4 wins. Two of those are two GWRBI that he’d have had against the Mets if he’d been traded elsewhere.
Maybe the most important component is that we never need to see DJ again.
Like the bullpen moves thus far too. Leveraging the volatility of RPs to buy low on two guys with prior success for almost nothing.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Fools gold.
Positively Half St
For which side of the trade?
10centBeerNight
Heel turns face? Depending on return, solid move by Stearns. The contingent of NYM fans obsessed with their 26th man DJ Stewart can likely uncork wine cooler
10centBeerNight
They just reported return in Stuart. Tempers it a bit – but you have to give to get. And Winker probably had a couple of suitors
raisinsss
FG not as rosy on Stuart. At #27:
Stuart is a strike-throwing behemoth who has kept his walk rates down in the 2.5 per 9 IP range since entering pro ball. He’s now accumulated 14 efficient Double-A starts and is marching toward a post-2025 40-man add. Stuart’s stuff isn’t dominant and he probably needs to find a better changeup or split to avoid an eventual bulk relief role, but his durability and command give him a really high floor. He is mostly going to live in the low 90s with both a two- and four-seamer while commanding an average slider to his glove side. His ability to vary his fastball shape helps keep him off the barrel and is a big reason why he’s run groundball rates around 50%. He’s a low-variance sixth starter type.
So a future Adrian Houser.
I’m fine with this.
Positively Half St
I think the high floor is a reason for us Nats fans to be happy. If he can be a 5th starter for real, this is a good return for a rental outfielder/DH we signed for just this reason. Even if he turns out to be a long-term middle innings eater, we are likely talking a believable, controllable Major-Leaguer. Now I hope Jesse can help the Mets to the Championship, for the sake of my elderly Mom.
raisinsss
Yup, I think it’s a fair, win win sort of trade. He probably wasn’t going to get a serious look with the Mets and unless Winker pulls a Ruf and turns into a pumpkin, the Mets swapped out DJ Stewart for a credible righty masher who is decent in RF and seems to have become faster, somehow.
jvent
I would’ve rather had Conforto than Winker, he was always a jerk to the fans in the stands
This one belongs to the Reds
I am amazed at fans who think they can heap all kinds of abuse on a player but are upset when one gives the same back to them.
I will freely admit that I played with fans too. But I was a catcher, I gave abuse to everyone – umpires, players on both sides, etc.
SewaldSwansonSwoon
I hate everything about this. Winker was a leader in the Nats clubhouse. He will not do well in the toxic NYM environment. And the return is pathetic. A 2-pitch 6th rounder still in AA two years after being drafted? C’mon. Fleeced.
Chris from NJ
I don’t really love this move. Winker is a head case who has had problems at all of his stops except Washington apparently. This deal doesn’t really move the needle for me but who knows he might get hot and hit 20 homers the rest of the way. I’m just really glad it’s not Conforto. Read that they were looking at him and thought why? He looks really diminished. We’ll see about this one.
rct
lmao you can tell a deal is fair when people from both fan bases hate it.
Armaments216
@sewald – the good news is the Nats can sign Winker back again in the offseason if they want. But agreed, this return seems lighter than what I’d have expected. I guess an arm in the high minors is what the Nats were targeting, versus younger prospects with a higher ceiling to continue to build out their system.
ny papi
The vibes in the Mets clubhouse has been amazing, not sure what team you’ve been watching
Ma4170
Most won’t agree, but I would rather have had Conforto back. I know he’s in a major slump since his injury a month or two ago, but I could see him coming back to where he still has friendships and a place he liked and going on a little two-month run. Perfect rental candidate, and can play RF unlike Winker, who’s terrible defensively. And prob would have had to give up less to get him. Winker a definite upgrade over Stewart and better numbers than Conforto so far, but I just thought that move would have worked out for the Mets and Conforto.
GooseGoslinGuy
Nats fan here. Been watching Winker all year. He has had his good moments. He’s a decent player. But he has also had disappointing moments. His walk rate is good but the down side to that is him taking too many strikes. He thinks he can outthink the umps when instead he should be swinging the bat (84 Ks in 379 PAs). He could be a productive pickup for the Mets but this is not anything earth-shattering. The often-anemic Nats will miss him but the sooner Dylan Crews advances to the big club, the sooner they won’t. Good luck, Jesse.
braves95 2
It’s funny when you see Winker headed to a new team because you see all these clips of him arguing with opposing fans everywhere he plays. And now he’s kind of turned into this journeyman and ends up playing for these fans lol
mahalkita
Not a bad move. Kicks Stewart to the curb and if Winker’s antics get out of hand Lindor can choke him in the clubhouse.
Positively Half St
Why would you want Stuart kicked to the curb? He seems pretty solid. Oh, wait. You don’t mean the pitcher you traded, but DJ Stewart. Got it.
mookiesboy
I shake my head at real Mets fan who wanted Conforto over Winkler. This isn’t a vote for Prom King – Its a fight for the pennant and Winkler is a much better player in 2024 than Scooter.
Camden453
Stearns is clueless. You could have got a lot more for Stuart than Winker
Stuart is a pretty significant pitching prospect
Winker isn’t going to tip the needle at all.
No bat ever does
6 years of Stuart for two months of absolutely nothing. Terrible use of resources
Now let’s have yourdelusionalGM come in with his clueless replies. Guy has no idea what’s going on either
Don'tBeDumb
Yeah I tend to think Stearns is better at building a solid team than you are, considering he’s done it before and it’s currently doing it in front of my eyes but..but who knows… Maybe camden453 the best GM in the league!
Camden453
Yeah well, no he isn’t really. Not after seeing this trade
Hasnt a clue what he’s doing or what’s going on if he makes this deal
He also made the clueless Hader deal a few years back
The problem is, you don’t know whats going on and you’re just like “well the guy has a position in the industry”
Truth is Rizzo outsmarted him immensely
rct
Remember when you said that Travis Jankowski had Hall of Fame talent? You are clueless, bro.
YourDreamGM
I admire and respect him more than any user on here. Anyone else would have changed their user name 3 dozen times as many times as he has been wrong.
Camden453
I get what Stearns is thinking. Stuart is probably going to HR/9, H/9, BB/9 out. You might as well trade him before he loses value
But adding one bat like Winker is not going to make a difference at all. It could even be a negative result
You could have packaged Stuart with something else for a higher end reliever, or simply dealt Stuart for a reliever. Would have made you much better than Winker will
Or, even better. keep him. Maybe he becomes a decent #4 or 5, maybe even a fringe 3, or use him in the bullpen. 6 years and 3 options
Should have at least got a reliever if you’re going this route
Positively Half St
As a Nats fan, I like hearing that you all valued Stuart. However, Jesse Winker was really solid this year, and I hope he can help the Mets to the WS, for my Mom’s sake.
Camden453
Adding a bat for two months does nothing. Relievers and starters make much more of a difference
Its never a good idea to trade significant prospects for a bat at the deadline
Camden453
If a GM makes this trade, Stuart for Winker, he doesn’t yet fully understand what’s going on
I said the same thing when Stearns made the Hader trade. Any GM who makes that trade, doesn’t yet fully understand what’s happening
He’s a young GM and Rizzo played him. Rizzo is the older, wiser GM and gets it more than Stearns does
Camden453
Lot of “probablys”, “Winker could be good” here. People here have no idea what’s going on or how to evaluate anything
Winker for Stuart is a major win for the Nationals if you know what’s going on
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
And one big “maybe” for a AA prospect with control issues. It’s a low risk/ medium reward for both teams.
You lost your audience with the “bat for 2 months doesn’t make a difference” comment. Go look at every previous playoff run. The difference is usually players acquired as rentals.
Positively Half St
I think Stuart had a 25% K rate and 5% BB rate. Control seems pretty good.
Camden453
Stuart has good command and decent control. I’ve watched many of his starts this years. He’s very polished
Seeuon is just another guy who has no idea what’s going on
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
Actually, I have a lot of idea of what’s going on. Stuart’s downside is that he caves with runners on base. Control doesn’t mean walks, it means he doesn’t locate the ball well.
But please continue with your statements about how rental players don’t affect the playoff runs.
Positively Half St
Thanks for the clarification. I hope this kind of strategy can be taught.
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
It requires more psychological coaching than metrics to help players build mental toughness. Young players who are reluctant to trust their stuff often overthrow and that’s when you see the most bat to ball mistakes. Metrics are great for fine tuning and developing skills, but it doesn’t teach players how to trust their skills.
Positively Half St
Do you see any reason that a young player can’t be coached to improve this way? I think some of the young Nats pitchers have improved this year by being pushed to be braver in attacking the zone. This is not just about walks, as you say, but about not getting themselves into the bad situations in the first place.
Camden453
Seeuon, you are just one of the hordes that don’t know what’s happening
Everyone thinks they know what they’re talking about, but very few actually do
Most people in baseball front offices don’t have a clue what they’re doing either
There are endless clueless moves they’re making. It’s all shots in the dark, mainly
Only very few see what’s going on
You think adding a bat makes any difference over two months. That’s funny. It doesn’t
All the casuals think it makes this amazing difference. Did Soto help the Padres? It didn’t do a thing
Stearns, apparently, is one of the people that thinks adding Winker will give the team an advantage
It won’t make any difference and now they don’t have Stuart
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
I think some young pitchers benefit from pitching on a rebuilding team. Less overall pressure to win every game means they have the ability to work through tough situations without the manager calling the ‘pen.
Camden453
Two months of a bat, even an MVP bat, doesn’t make any difference at all
The Phillies lose Harper and nothing changes. It happens all the time
I’ve run thousands of advanced simulations and it makes absolutely no difference when you add a bat for two months
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
You have run thousands of simulations…. yet none consider player intangibles…. or injuries… or the human condition.
YourDreamGM
As a beloved trusted member of our community I will chime in. Control is his most valuable tool. It’s great.
Camden453
lmao….yourdelusionalGM, again you don’t really get it
Control is one of Stuart’s weaknesses. He does not really hit his locations consistently. Especially with his secondary stuff
But it is not bad. It’s about average control
You’re another dude who thinks he has all this exceptional insight and knowledge, but actually has little clue what’s happening
Most people are like that
YourDreamGM
Travis Janakowski.. Nuff said.. You are the village clown Camden
Camden453
Yeah that’s an argument I actually won over the “herd” of the clueless like you. A couple people here actually said I was right about Jankowski
He went to Texas and put up a .357 OBP and won a ring, and was instrumental in many of the playoff games
The novices and casuals who don’t even watch the games jump to the conclusion that Jankowski is awful because “he only hits like .220 and stuff”
It’s always the small 1% who know that have to endlessly battle the 99% of the herd who are only doing guesswork
bravesfan
Makes sense for the Mets to go get a guy who is a clubhouse issue. And don’t take my word for it. It’s well documented that he’s a clubhouse issue…
YourDreamGM
I will take the word of the guy who traded for him twice over yours.
YourDreamGM
A for NY. How many lefty bats like Winker are available? Above I named half a dozen arms in Stuarts range and not him. So I think they traded one of the lower ceiling arms in that range.
B for Wash. I would personally give it a C because in that tier of arms they took one of my least favorites. If they got one more of my style they get a A. So compromise. Stuart can be a backend starter with 3rd pitch development so good for a 2 month rental outfielder.
I think it’s a pretty fair win win trade.
Camden453
You don’t have a clue what’s going on
Camden453
Ahh, I went back to your earlier posts and saw that you’re high on Jonah Tong. Typical novice mentality to be high on Tong. As usual someone taking stabs in the dark with no real knowledge how to project mechanics
And you actually mentioned Suarez as a prospect. That’s funny. Suarez is so terrible as to not even be a prospect. But he made some prospect lists so you think he’s a prospect
The real internal prospect lists the Mets make are much differtnt than pop prospect lists
Guys like Juan Arnaud, Wyatt Hudepohl, Ben Simon are on those lists
So as usual another dude who thinks he has incredible knowledge who has no clue what’s happening
YourDreamGM
Travis Janakowski fan boy lol. How bout the time you were going to screen shot a guys comment and use it as your picture so everyone could see how stupid he was lol!!! Good one there Zoolander lol
Camden453
And I was right about Jankowski. He went to the Rangers and put up a .357 OBP
It was a smart pickup, as I said it would be. He was instrumental in their entire World Series run
You dont know what’s happening and have to rely on herd consensus to form assessments
I don’t need to do that. I know who is good and who isn’t
You have no idea if Jonah Tong or Joander Suarez is good or bad, you just read some prospect lists
YourDreamGM
3 problems. You said mvp. Years before he went to Texas. And it’s not the 2001 Oakland A’s.
What is this a school for ants!
Camden453
You’re just another dude who has no idea what’s going on. It’s very common
YourDreamGM
I know that if I screenshot someone’s comment and use it as my profile pic so everyone can see how stupid they are that the only ones who will be able to read it is ants! Lol
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
None of us have any idea, apparently. Lol
Out of curiosity, since you are so knowledgeable, why aren’t you working for an MLB club? Oh, yes…. I simulated your odds and the results show that your “insights” are less valuable than a bag of baseballs.
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
You should try watching some of the players you make comments about. It will give you a much needed break from your MLB ’24 simulations.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Has the Mets PR machine made him overrated yet?
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
Yes. Much hype.
How’s the basement treating your fan base, btw?
BannedMarlinsFanBase
We have a bunch of prospects added.
Since you care so much, I’ll return the care. How’s the 37-year championship drought treating your fan base?
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
It’s great, actually. I don’t live in the past, though. I focus on the current team. 😉
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Oh, how convenient. That explains your silence last season.
SeeUonTheUlnarSide
Actually, I was on here last season. And the season before…. and before.
Last year’s discussions centered around the poor effort to buy a championship. I didn’t dispute the stones thrown because I agreed with the trolls.
Unlike some of the Mets fans on here, I don’t overreact to a bad season. It’s part of being a fan.