Today’s 8-3 win over the Nationals improved the Cardinals’ record to 47-42, and continued the team’s impressive run of play over the last two months. After stumbling out of the gates to a 15-24 start, the Cards have now won 32 of their last 50 games, and have surged into the second NL wild card slot.
This has put St. Louis into a buyer position as the trade deadline approaches, and as Ken Rosenthal commented in an appearance this week on the Foul Territory show (X link), the Cards perhaps have an interesting edge over some other teams looking to make moves. The Cardinals “have Major League pieces to trade,” Rosenthal said, since the team might have a bit of a surplus of position players due to some upcoming returns from the injured list. With many clubs still straddling the line between being clear-cut buyers or sellers, “teams are not going to want to give up necessarily prospects or make certain kinds of moves. But if they can fill a need with major leaguers from your club, and give you perhaps excess from their own, that is going to be valuable.”
Since the Cards need starting pitching, the most obvious comp here is the 2022 deadline trade that saw St. Louis obtain Jordan Montgomery from the Yankees in a one-for-one swap for Harrison Bader. Naturally, finding a repeat of such a successful deal isn’t easy, nor are any of the Cardinals’ current trade chips necessarily as valuable as Bader was in 2022, coming off a Gold Glove award and above-average offensive seasons in 2020-21.
Rosenthal suggested that catcher Ivan Herrera or Dylan Carlson could potentially be dangled in trade talks at this deadline. Former top prospect Carlson could be seen as a change-of-scenery candidate after two seasons of struggles, and Herrera is maybe superfluous since the Cards have Willson Contreras and Pedro Pages at catcher. (Herrera is himself on the 10-day IL due to lower back tightness, but is expected back after the All-Star break.)
Getting these injured players back is the first step in whatever plans the Cardinals might have in mind for July 30, and on that front, Lars Nootbaar should return this week. An oblique strain has sidelined Nootbaar since the end of May, but he has now banked seven rehab games with Double-A Springfield. Cardinals Oliver Marmol told reporters (including Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch) that Nootbaar “came out feeling good” after this recent stretch of games, and technically, Nootbaar could be activated from the 10-day IL as early as Monday. However, since the Cardinals are on the road and wrapping up a series in Washington on Monday, it is probably more likely that Nootbaar returns during the Cards’ five-game homestand prior to the All-Star break.
Nootbaar has hit .234/.337/.404 over 164 plate appearances this season, and is hopefully in for an extended stretch of good health after already making two trips to the IL in 2024. The outfielder suffered a rib injury during Spring Training that delayed his season debut until April 12, but in between his IL visits took on a starting role in the corner outfield positions.
Tommy Edman could very well be taking Nootbaar’s spot in Springfield, as Edman is slated to begin a minor league rehab assignment with the Double-A affiliate on Tuesday. This will mark Edman’s first game action of any kind in 2024, as Edman has been battling through a lengthy recovery process since undergoing arthroscopic wrist surgery last October. Since Edman will need at least a few weeks of rehab games considering his long layoff, it’s possible he won’t be ready for the big league roster by the July 30 deadline, but the Cardinals should have enough of a sense of his status by then to determine whether or not Edman’s return could perhaps make someone else on the roster expendable in a trade.
Right-hander Riley O’Brien threw to Edman during a live batting practice session on Saturday, with O’Brien throwing 20 pitches in total. O’Brien hasn’t pitched since Opening Day due to a right flexor strain, and as MLB.com’s John Denton details, O’Brien started throwing in mid-June before some more forearm discomfort during a live BP session led to consultations with Dr. Keith Meister. Fortunately, it appears as though O’Brien has been cleared of any more serious arm issues since he has returned to throwing, and a rehab assignment could potentially be in the works if he continues to feel pain-free.
Ok
My wife was mad I hit up the Nootbar yesterday. How do I tell her it was really a baseball game
I don’t know. It sounds kind of suspicious either way you play it. I get where she’s coming from.
WHY CANT I HIT A DARN PARLAY THESE DAYS!? IM FRIGGEN ICE COLD!!
Don’t bet on baseball
But it’s so enticing…
One of my friend says gambling is a tax for people who are really bad at math.
Ippei? Is that you? Maybe stop trying for hail mary’s?
Do you keep the parlay down to the least amount of teams as necessary? I would stick to 2 or 3 team parlays, any more than that and the odds sky-rocket.
Don’t get greedy wishfully thinking.
I’d rather trade Pages than Herrera (although would prefer to have Pages still available in AAA in case of another catcher injury). While Herrera can’t throw out many base stealers, the rest of his defense is decent, and he’s become a pretty good hitter. (Plus, Contreras is still the primary catcher, and he’s rather good at throwing out baserunners.) Meanwhile, Pages hits about as poorly as Siani does.
Speaking of whom, are any teams interested in a no-hit, elite CF glove with over 5 years of remaining control once Nootbaar and Edman get back?
Pages isn’t worth squat. Herrera is incredibly valuable and more valuable to another team which is the essence for how good trades happen. And Pages is a better fit as a defense guy with Contreras. And Crooks Will most likely be ready mid season next year so it kinda doesn’t matter that much. Herrera got a chance to prove he can play everyday and he proved it but now he has no place to play. It is the PERFECT time to trade him.
And if you are talking Siani again nobody wants him. He’s the outfield version of Pages.
You are spot on. Herrera has a ton of value and crooks looks great down on the farm. Maybe Herrera and another prospect(not baker, hopefully gets a shot if goldy leaves) gets us a decent 5th starter?
They should trade Baker. He has value and Burleson can take over at first after Goldy leaves.
Except the Cardinals need Herrera to gradually take more of the playing time at catcher as Contreras ages over the rest of his contract and gradually plays more DH and/or gets more days off.
The Cardinals don’t need Herrera because they would still have Pages and Crooks is coming this time next year most likely. And Bernal is playing well too he’s another year behind Crooks but he’s looking good.
Herrera is an absolutely perfect trade candidate for the Cardinals and where their team is at right now. If the team wants to make a run in 2024 he’s the guy that can bring back help.
Because you can get more from Herrera than you can Pages?
Which is also why the Cardinals would prefer to keep Herrera over Pages.
Pages is a good defensive catcher and Herrera is a better hitter. With Wilson Contreras better to keep the better defensive catcher IMO.
If the Cardinals are going to trade someone from the MLB (or at least the 40-man roster) to improve their chances to contend, it will most likely be among the guys that are least valuable to them. Someone like Pages at least has value as part of a package.
Pages and Siani have almost no value at all. Those guys aren’t bringing back any legit help at the deadline.
100% Blackpink
Who the hell is gonna want Dylan Carlson?
Nobody I can see. I think he’s a good fit as a platoon guy for a lefty heavy team at the moment. If he ever starts hitting again go from there but it’s not looking promising.
Some insider said the angels could be interested in a 1 for 1 swap for adell. They need a cf and adell, while hitting homers has struggled. Maybe a change of scenery for both former top prospects. Both also only have 1 year of control left. I mean marsh left and flourished. Maybe adell and carlson could both too
Carlson has 2 years of control left after this season, and he’s at least useful as a short side platoon starter who plays good defense.
Adell has 3 years left after 2024 and Carlson has 2. I wouldn’t mind swapping them for each other but either Edman would have to get healthy or the Cardinals would have to trade for a new center fielder. But yeah sure we could trade them in late July why not.
Cards have Tommy Edman coming back soon (probably after All Star Break) so the Cards have zero reason to trade for an outfielder with Donovan fully implanted in left field and Nootbaar, Burleson, and maybe Jordan Walker as the future in right field. Siani holds value as a defensive center fielder with or without Edman back. Carlson is pretty much dead weight but packaged with a prospect he has always hit left handed def pitching when not playing injured
Edman is a question mark coming off his injury and he’s also only signed through 2025. Yes we could go from Edman to Scott but the opportunity to add a bat like Robert could change those plans I think. And if it would require Walker so be it.
Edman is barely a question mark at all now that his wrist is finally healed. Even if you were looking for an eventual replacement down the line, there’s no point in wasting resources for a position player for 2024 that could be used towards a starting pitcher instead.
While they both can only hit lefties, Carlson is a better fielder than Adell in general and can play CF.
I agree with Lanidrac.
Carlson was having a very good spring until Jordan Walker crashed through him and injured his shoulder.
With everyone getting healthy, this team is very deep. Both Herrera and Pages are solid but Herrera could bring more in trade for another starting pitcher. Arenado is warming up finally just need Goldschmidt to start hitting too. If that happens, this team is a starter and a right handed bench bat away from being really solid. Siani is not going anywhere. His defense has been amazing; perfect 5th outfielder. Will be interesting to see what happens when Edman and Nootbaar are back. Carlson can be sent to AAA since his trade value is so low. Dude needs to play to heat up and bring up his trade value. Plus Donovan and Burleson need ABs. Maybe they trade Edman & Herrera plus a minor league starter for Luzardo?
Goldschmidt HAS been hitting since the middle of May! His overall numbers just don’t reflect it due to his horrific slumps in March to mid-April and in the first half of May.
They have Carlson as a decent righty bench bat against lefties, and they don’t really need more than that, since many of their better hitters are righties (Contreras, Goldy, Arenado, Winn, and Herrera, plus Edman also hits better against lefties). Why is he on your mental trade block anyway when he already fills the role of a guy you want to trade for?
However, yes, they need to trade for a starter.
As for roster moves when the injured guys get back, they can just send down Pages and Fermin and DFA Crawford.
When a teams success hinges on multiple players past their primes turning their respective seasons around then your team is flawed.
Then it’s a good thing they aren’t reliant on Goldschmidt and Arenado doing so. They have Contreras and younger stars like Gorman, Winn, Burleson, Donovan, and Nootbaar picking up the slack offensively.
Herrera is the big trade chip. Marlins are the team. Cardinals could use Chisholm but I worry his personality wouldn’t fit in St Louis. Cardinals could maybe use Luzardo or Rogers too. And perhaps Scott. Edman could be a fit for the Marlins if Chisholm is dealt. Perhaps Prieto. There is a trade to be made in there somewhere.
If not the Marlins then trade for Robert. The Cardinals were said to have had interest in Robert before he signed with the Sox. Scott can be included in the deal. Perhaps Walker. Saggese or Prieto one of them no problem. Maybe Hence but I doubt it.
How could the Cardinals use Chisholm? The Cardinals need a starting pitcher, not any additional position players.
The Cardinals have had a giant hole in center field all year. How do you not understand how Chisholm would help? Perhaps Edman comes back and plays well but thats a risk.
Edman and Nootbaar are the CFers, of course, plus Carlson against lefties. There’s no reason not to expect Edman to at least outhit Siani significantly upon his return.
It’s even more ridiculous that you’re also suggesting that they trade Edman, when they can solve the CF problem by just waiting a couple more weeks for him to get back and then keeping him.
If Edman comes back and is his old self right away then great. But thats a gamble and one a playoff team might not want to take. Center has been a weak point all year.
It’s barely a gamble at all that he’ll at least significantly outhit Siani! There’s no reason not to think Edman won’t be his old self within a couple of weeks of his return after a lengthy rehab assignment now that his wrist is finally healthy again.
Why would the Cardinals need a CF’er or ANY position players? They have way too many outfielders and if you want to talk about CF, you’ve got Siani, Nootbaar, Edman (very soon) and worst case, Victor Scott.
This team needs pitching. Not any position players.
I agree that with Contreras, Nootbaar, and Edman coming back and a solid bullpen, the best upgrade would be an SP trade that sends Pallante back to long relief. Even if Pallante builds on some recent starts, the Cardinals need another guy who can give quality innings to save the bullpen and insure against injury and underperformance.
But Mo knew that coming into the season. Now if they want to bolster their playoff chances they have to mortgage their future trading away prospects.
The Cardinals have absolutely no need for Jazz. They could use pitching back for whoever they send away. Maybe a bullpen arm for Carlson???
Nootbaar withdrawals are the worst. Good to see the suffering come to an end.
The Cardinals are on fire! From a miserable start to the season to suddenly winning like they’re being paid by the victory. Now they’re out here like, “Who wants a catcher? We got catchers! Need an outfielder? Take Carlson, he’s practically brand new!” Seriously though, if they can swing another Montgomery for Bader type of deal, we might need to start calling their front office magicians. And can we get Nootbaar and Edman bubble-wrapped, please? These guys spend more time on the IL than on the field!
There is a giant chasm of difference between Herrera and Carlson. Herrera is a very valuable piece Carlson is some dude nobody wants.
Edman has had 1 big injury was healthy as can be before that. Nootbaar yeah I don’t know what’s going on with him.
The team looks pretty good. Not amazing but with a big trade could be legit.
As of July 9th the Cards are 33-18 last 51 games. Only 4 games back of the Brewers and are playing the best baseball in National League over that time period. With Nootbaar back and Edman coming soon it looks good. Pallante has been really good last few starts but they still need a starter at deadline.
So Cards are going to trade crap and get something back that is good? Stupid idea but of course Rosenthal so not unexpected. The Jim Bowden of Fox.
Is Herrera crap? It sounds like he’s a really promising bat first catcher that is young enough for the defense to come around. If he’s a major leaguer right now in his pre arb years, that should have a lot of value in trade.
Carlson could fit a roster that needs a CF capable bench piece. He’s been a decent hitter from the right side of the plate in his career. Maybe there’s a team that just needs a weak side of the platoon guy. Or there’s a team that sees a tweak or two to be made and just sees him as a change of scenery guy. It’s not like we haven’t seen former Cardinals OFs break out once out of that organization. Probably doesn’t have a lot of trade value, but maybe it’s for a guy who is good but highly paid so also doesn’t have a ton of trade value.
Edman’s last game was Oct 1st 2023. To expect anything from him in 2024 is foolish.
Cheese, it’s not like he had Tommy John Surgery or Thoracic Outlet Surgery. Guys miss half a season to injury all the time. The wrist surgery just took a lot longer than expected to heal, and he wasn’t injury prone beforehand. He’s now finally on a rehab assignment.
They aren’t trading Herrera. He is the future catcher and the front office knows Contreras won’t catch more than 50% of games in years 3, 4, and 5. It is insane to think that anyone that knows baseball would believe they would trade him but we are talking about Rosenthal here. The amount Herrera improves every single season is staggering and of course would be huge value for another team but this would be a big blunder that even Mo wouldn’t make. Herrera is here to stay. Noot is more likely to be traded than him. To suggest either would be traded for a rental is absurd though. The only possibility Herrera gets traded is for 2+ years of decent SP.
I’m with you Stan. It doesn’t make sense to trade any young talent to make a push this year. Yes, they have been playing well. But this team just hasn’t been consistent enough.
Keep Herrera. Give Carlson everyday playing time in CF until Tommy is fully ready. No matter how much of a disappointment Carlson has been, he has a higher ceiling than Siani and we have more invested in Carlson.
Trade any expensive veteran who can be moved. And trade Ryan Helsley. Helsley will never, NEVER, NEVER, EVER, EVER be more valuable than he is right now. Get something for him now. History says he is more likely to get injured than help us make a playoff push.
I am happy the arrow seems to be pointing up for this team. But I think we need to manage expectations for this season and continue to build for the future.
@donosbourne
As a fellow fan myself I’m glad to see the birds playing good but I’m also realistic and agree with you. The birds the last few years have been barely a playoff team and would rather have them hold them try and make a push for some rentals on a “when heck freezes over” odds of winning a chip and we just got set back a few years
Carlson still can’t hit righties, so it’s Edman’s job to lose once he comes back (and fully ready, as that’s what the rehab assignment is for). There’s no reason to play Siani nor Carlson over Edman most of the time.
Why the heck should the Cardinals sell, especially an All-Star like Helsley just to sell high on him?! The Cardinals are clearly a contending team who just need to buy a starting pitcher at the deadline to make a run at the playoffs.
The team has been quite consistent since the middle of May, and the expectations are that the offense, defense, and bullpen are all very good as they are, not on the same level as top teams like the Phillies or Orioles, but still good enough for a playoff team with no easy way to upgrade any further. It also doesn’t set the team back any to fork over two or three mid-tier prospects for a rental starter.
It feels like the Cubs, Rangers, and Blue Jays could be the types of teams that fit this kind of trade. Teams that are out of contention this season but are invested in their rosters enough that they might think they can compete again sooner than later and would take back a major league piece instead of prospects. And don’t Eovaldi, Taillon, and Bassitt just feel like Cardinals type of guys? Maybe more so the Rangers and Jays who aren’t in the same division and are both currently over the CBT threshold. Shedding Eovaldi and Bassitt money could help them reset the penalties this year as contention in ‘25 will probably require going back over the CBT threshold.
Blue Jays could use Herrera with Danny Jansen leaving. He’s probably too much for Bassitt unless the Jays retain some of Bassitt’s money which might defeat the purpose of this trade scenario. I’d groan, but I could see them taking Carlson as they don’t really have a backup CF and Varsho is kind of a platoon guy. But if it crosses an item off the offseason shopping list as well as freeing up budget space for next year and gets them under the CBT this year, I wouldn’t hate it.
Has to be more too it. While I agree with you, I think MLB is making him the example. He has other issues on and off the field as well. Maybe that’s why MLB is doing what they are doing? Or other teams know more than we are seeing on social media? He, for the most part, is doing all the explaining for his innocence at the moment. I have yet to see a lawyer or an MLB executive (or player/coach rather) come out to fight for him. It’s a shame but hope he is back soon and wish the Cards would go out of their norm to take a waiver on what we all know would be a HUGE and cheap pick up.
@thebirds
I believe the reason Trevor is still available is because he is a complete and utter bell end and has a reputation for pissing off teammates and management.
Yep. Why I said “he has other issues on and off the field”.
@thebirds
Fair enough you did say that there were other issues besides the adult stuff
Correct! Remember, the Dodger players said that they wouldn’t want him back.
It’s extremely rare that two contenders match up on a deadline trade for MLB players. Non contenders are more interested in MLB ready prospects. The Cardinals will be packaging Carlson and or Herrera with prospects if they want quality pitching in return.
My question is, why are they hanging onto Big Brandon Crawford? Such a head-scratcher. Is it really worth a precious roster spot just to “mentor” Winn? Obese Craw must have something on ownership because this makes no sense.
He’s basically the backup shortstop to give Winn an occasional rest day (who has been playing through a minor back issue), and it’s not like Fermin is hitting any better than he is. However, he doesn’t have any trade value, either. I fully expect Crawford to be DFAed once Edman returns to take over the backup SS role (among other roles).
Herrara given a full time gig could become a very good player. He should have a great deal of value
Why don’t the Cardinals sign Trevor Bauer?
For the same reasons the 29 other teams haven’t signed him.
@gary r
Because he’s such a class act no mlb team feels right depriving the Mexican league of one of there most stand up guys
Wrong article.
Even if some team were stupid enough to sign Bauer now, he wouldn’t be ready to pitch until near the end of the regular season, anyway.
Why do you say that? He’s been playing in Mexico, he should be ready to go right away if a team is willing to take a chance.
@fostan
It’s one thing to dominate an ongoing spring training, but he hasn’t faced mlb level play in about 3+ years, even if he was signed today he’d be a 3 at best
That’s still better than Lynn.
But that’s the point isn’t it? Our rotation would certainly improve with him being a part of it. I’m not advocating for the move, I realize it won’t happen. I have been following his youtube channel and really like what he’s doing there, especially mentoring younger players. Probably all part of the plan to get back into the MLB but it is interesting to watch and he definitely still has the stuff.
He’s ready to go if a team takes a chance. I think you’re right about him being a 3, but that’s good enough for 2 here.
@brodie-bruce Every team could use a 3 for the league minimum rn
@padreesws
Can’t he get more I thought Trevor was a full fa not a released fa?
Why would a team offer him more than the minimum when no one else is even offering him a minor league deal? Why bid against yourself for a guy no one else wants?
Dylan Carlson, Ivan Herrera, Tink Hence and Luken Baker for Jazz Chisolm and Max Meyer. Then trade Alec Burleson and Matz for Max Scherzer.
Team solved.