12:21PM: The Marlins are eating almost all of the roughly $8.5MM owed to Arraez this season, ESPN’s Alden Gonzalez reports (X link). San Diego will owe Arraez only the MLB minimum salary for the rest of 2024, so between this arrangement and moving Go’s salary, the Padres look to have actually reduced their luxury tax number with this trade.
TODAY, 9:34AM: Both teams have officially announced the trade, and the Padres will also be receiving cash considerations from the Marlins. This will lower the Padres’ financial hit, and give them a bit more breathing room under the luxury tax threshold.
MAY 3: The Padres and Marlins have lined up on a rare May blockbuster. San Diego is reportedly acquiring two-time batting champ Luis Arraez from Miami for four players: prospects Dillon Head, Jakob Marsee and Nathan Martorella, as well as reliever Woo-Suk Go.
Arraez’s tenure in Miami ends after a season and five weeks. The Fish swapped Pablo López to the Twins to acquire him over the 2022-23 offseason. Arraez played up to expectations in the first season. He flirted with .400 for a few months, and while he didn’t maintain that otherworldly pace, he cruised to a second straight batting title and helped Miami to the playoffs. Arraez finished with a .354/.393/.469 line through 617 plate appearances.
As the batting titles would suggest, Arraez has developed into perhaps the game’s best pure contact hitter. He has walked more often than he’s struck out over the course of his career. The Venezuela native has punched out in only 7.5% of his plate appearances in the big leagues. That’s down to a meager 6.4% clip going back to the start of 2022. That leads qualified hitters by more than three percentage points. Guardians left fielder Steven Kwan is the only other player to strike out less than 10% of the time in that span.
Arraez has tallied 148 plate appearances over 33 games this season. His production is down slightly, as he’s hitting .299/.347/.372 without a home run. That’s not much of a concern for San Diego. Arraez is still making contact at an elite rate. He has never been a huge power threat, topping out at 10 longballs a year ago. It’s unlikely that San Diego feels differently about Arraez than they did during Spring Training, when they reportedly made a push for both him and starter Jesús Luzardo.
Going back to the start of 2022, Arraez is a .331/.380/.437 hitter in nearly 1400 plate appearances. He has hit at the top of the lineup in Miami and should do the same with the Padres. San Diego has been using Jurickson Profar in the leadoff spot of late. While Profar’s out to a fantastic start to the season, he can slide down a few spots in a suddenly deeper lineup.
As great a hitter as Arraez is, his game isn’t without flaws. He’s at best a fringe defender at second base. Defensive Runs Saved has generally graded him around league average with the glove, though it has soured on his work in 281 innings this season. Statcast has long panned him as a defender, grading him negatively in all but one year of his career. Statcast estimates he’s been 24 runs below average in nearly 2700 career innings at the keystone.
The Twins played Arraez more frequently at first base back in 2022. He rated better there defensively, although he doesn’t have the traditional power profile expected at the position. That doesn’t seem to be much of an issue for the Padres. Incumbent first baseman Jake Cronenworth is also a hit-over-power player who began his career in the middle infield.
Arraez could see occasional reps at first and second base, but he’s likely to get the bulk of his at-bats as a designated hitter. The Friars have Cronenworth, Xander Bogaerts, Ha-Seong Kim and Manny Machado as their projected starting infield. Machado was limited to DH for a couple weeks as he recovered from last fall’s elbow surgery. He made his return to third base last Friday, and while he has continued shuffling between the hot corner and DH since then, he’ll eventually work back to everyday third base reps.
Machado’s return to third base would have left the Friars without a clear everyday option at designated hitter. Rookie Graham Pauley has gotten some reps there, but he has hit .125/.125/.313 to start his MLB career. Arraez should solidify that spot while still having enough defensive flexibility to allow manager Mike Shildt to rotate other infielders through the position when they need a break on defense.
Padres president of baseball operations A.J. Preller has never shied away from pursuing star talent, so it’s not particularly surprising that they’d keep an eye on Arraez. The timing of the trade, though, is a stunner. It’s incredibly rare to see players of that caliber moved this early into a season. Perhaps the best recent comparison is the May 21, 2021 swap that sent Willy Adames and Trevor Richards from the Rays to the Brewers for Drew Rasmussen and J.P. Feyereisen.
Peter Bendix was serving as Tampa Bay’s general manager (#2 in the front office hierarchy) at the time of the Adames deal. He’s now in charge of baseball operations in Miami. Bendix is evidently not averse to making a major splash at an atypical time if the opportunity presents itself.
The Marlins followed up a quiet offseason with an absolutely terrible April. They enter this weekend’s series in Oakland with a 9-24 record. Whatever slim chance they had of repeating last year’s surprising playoff berth has all but evaporated. Miami was going to be a deadline seller, so there’s sense in moving early if another team put the right offer on the table.
Miami felt that was the case with a four-player return centered around San Diego’s 2023 first-rounder. The Padres selected Head 25th overall out of an Illinois high school. A left-handed hitting center fielder, he split his first professional season between rookie ball and Low-A. Head ranked eighth among San Diego prospects at Baseball America and fifth on Keith Law’s organizational write-up at The Athletic.
Both outlets credit Head with excellent speed and the chance to be a plus defensive center fielder at his peak. BA writes that he’s likely to be a contact-oriented offensive player without a ton of power, but Law wrote that professional scouts were impressed by the bat speed he showed after being drafted. Head has spent his age-19 season at Low-A Lake Elsinore. He’s out to a relatively slow start, hitting .237/.317/.366 with a 24% strikeout rate.
While Head is a long-term development play, Marsee has an outside shot at getting to the big leagues in 2024. A sixth-round pick out of Central Michigan two years ago, he dramatically improved his stock with a .274/.413/.428 showing between High-A and Double-A last season. Marsee followed up with a massive performance in the Arizona Fall League. There was even some speculation he could compete for the Opening Day center field spot, but it quickly became clear that Jackson Merrill was above him in that discussion.
Marsee, 23, ranked between 10th and 12th on the respective organizational prospect lists at BA and The Athletic. He’s credited with advanced plate discipline and instincts but without a ton of power potential. Marsee has played almost exclusively center field in the minors and likely projects as a fourth outfielder. He has spent this season at Double-A San Antonio, where has slumped to a .187/.337/.333 slash through his first 22 games.
Martorella, who is also 23, was a fifth-round pick out of Cal in that 2022 draft. The left-handed hitter has a career .269/.373/.447 batting line in nearly 800 professional plate appearances. He’s out to an excellent .294/.392/.435 start with a pair of homers and six doubles through 102 trips to the plate in San Antonio. Martorella is limited to first base or designated hitter, so he’ll need to hit a lot to be a regular, but he has shown a well-rounded offensive profile in pro ball.
Rounding out the return is Go, whom the Padres just signed out of Korea last winter. San Diego inked the 25-year-old righty to a two-year, $4.5MM deal. He’s playing this season on a $1.75MM salary. He’ll make $2.25MM next year and is guaranteed a $500K buyout on a $3MM mutual option for 2026. As is the case with most players signed out of a foreign professional league, his contract stipulates that he return to free agency at the end of the deal even though he’ll be well shy of six years of MLB service.
Go has yet to pitch in the major leagues. The Padres optioned him to Double-A after he struggled in Spring Training. He has tossed 12 2/3 innings there, allowing seven runs (six earned) on 14 hits. Go has fanned 15 hitters while issuing four walks. He was a closer for the KBO’s LG Twins before making the jump to MLB. He turned in a 3.18 ERA over parts of seven KBO seasons. Go missed plenty of bats in Korea but struggled to consistently throw strikes. Scouting reports before his signing generally suggested he projected as a middle reliever at the MLB level.
It’s the first of what is likely to be a handful of trades for the Marlins over the next few months. Miami seems set to kick off at least a retool, if not a full-scale rebuild. Luzardo, Trevor Rogers, Tanner Scott and Jazz Chisholm Jr. are among a number of players whom the Fish could put on the market. It’s unlikely the Arraez trade will open the floodgates three months before the deadline, but it’s clear Miami is already willing to engage in conversations.
Making trades well in advance of the deadline would also allow the Marlins to offload a greater portion of players’ contracts. Budgetary constraints are always present for a franchise that annually runs payrolls in the bottom third of the league. Miami essentially sat out free agency until taking a $5MM flier on Tim Anderson (which hasn’t worked out) at the beginning of Spring Training.
Arraez was one of the higher-paid players on the roster. He’s making $10.6MM this season after losing an arbitration case in February — the second straight year he and the team went to a hearing. Around $8.5MM is yet to be paid. Assuming there are no cash considerations involved, they’ll offload that but assume around $1.4MM of Go’s salary. That amounts to just over $7MM in savings. The team’s estimated player payroll now sits around $92MM, as calculated by RosterResource.
The Padres absorb that money, which is no small matter for a team that spent most of the offseason cutting spending. RosterResource estimates their actual player payroll around $174MM. Their competitive balance tax number is far higher, reflecting their slate of backloaded contracts. RosterResource calculates their CBT in the $232MM range. They’re around $4.5MM below this year’s $237MM base threshold, a marker they were reluctant to cross last winter.
A team’s CBT calculation isn’t determined until the end of the season. This surely isn’t the last of the Padres’ trade activity. Their deadline direction could go in a number of ways depending on how the team performs over the next few months. It’s not even out of the question the Padres fall out of the race and put Arraez back on the trade block in July, though that’s surely not what the front office currently intends.
Even if Arraez finishes the 2024 season in San Diego, he could be a trade candidate next offseason. He’ll go through arbitration once more before hitting free agency during the 2025-26 offseason. The two-time All-Star is likely to command a salary in the $14-16MM range for his final year of club control. The Padres could ostensibly plug him in at second base and move Bogaerts back to shortstop if Kim departs as a free agent, but that’s not something with which the team will concern itself in the short term.
For now, they’ll plug Arraez at the top of the lineup as they push for a playoff spot. They’ll get a few more months of production than they would’ve had they waited to make a traditional deadline move, albeit at the cost of a trio of mid-level prospects and around three-quarters of Arraez’s 2024 salary. There may not be any more huge moves in the next couple weeks, but it’s a precursor to what should be busy summers in both South Florida and Southern California.
ESPN’s Jeff Passan first reported the Padres were nearing agreement on an Arraez deal for three prospects and a reliever. Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic confirmed there was an Arraez trade in place. Craig Mish of SportsGrid was first to report the Marlins’ return.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
C4Luke
why
Tacoshells
Bc Padres have a chance at being #1
Blue Baron
No. 1 what? They’re under .500.
Gwynning
Goal #1- get back to .500!
Dogleg62
Not true. Man on 3rd and Arraez singles…what’s the outcome? Runner on 3rd scores easily. If he only walks, now it’s just runners on 1st and 3rd, no run scored, and next batter could ground into a DP or SO to end the inning. So I’ll take the guy with excellent bat-to-ball skills every time.
FrankRoo
He’s barely above league average this year, he came back down to earth. Contact hitters, especially free swingers, have to sustain ridiculous batting averages to justify their value that inevitably they fall off. He’s a solid starter if you already have him, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to acquire him. He’s also mediocre defensively.
User 401527550
Yes it sucks to make contact? Why would anyone want to do that?
Guard the Vogt
Blue Baron — It’s early May. Why not make a trade early and give yourself more time to recover from a poor start?
KyleT
“Yes it sucks to make contact? Why would anyone want to do that?”
But thats all he’s doing this year. Very little power, walk, defensive skills or speed. Making contact does “suck” if thats all you can do.
Perksy
#1 for rostering the most infielders
DwayneMurphyFav
People don’t think “baseball” anymore they just want to see the homerun. But you got it right Arraez can do the small things to help a team win. Get of baseball for Machado and Tatis ..get that single or double that scores the 8 or 9 hitter
DwayneMurphyFav
He couldn’t buy a hit the first fee weeks… but now close to .300 AGAIN. He’s not league average, this man knows how to get on which will help a team that doesn’t have Jazz, or Josh Bell trying to drive him in
Blue Baron
@Guard the Vogt: Why not?
martras
@Blue Baron Twins were 7-13 two weeks ago.
RShore05
“He’s barely league average this year” that’s mainly bc he started out the year so poorly, going 1/18 ABs and hitting under .200 thru the first 10-games of the season. Since then however, he’s hitting .337 with a .778ops. Now I agree that his defense is below average, but he’s probably going to be their DH on most days. I think it’s a great pick up for the Padres. After seeing what they were able to acquire him for, it makes me wish Cashman would’ve tried to go after him. I really don’t think his defense is much worse than what they’ve gotten from Gleyber this year. Then they could have used Gleyber to try and bring in a decent bullpen arm or SP.
Melchez17
They need to maintain ridiculous averages to justify WAR comparisons. According to WAR, Arraez and his .299/ .347/ .372 split has the same WAR as Lawrence Butler at .185/ .290/ ..309.
lowtalker1
He is literally batting .299
toshiro
Guys like Arraez don’t do much in the RBI department. And Arraez is too slow to make much of his onbase. You wind up paying a premium for that avg. It’s quite a feat for sure to do what he does, but it doesn’t lead to additional wins.
Guys like Johnny Damon are worth as much or more than Ichiro, cuz Damon would hit the ball harder ( resulting in lower avg )., Damon could get 70+ rbi, getting up to 80, even 90+ RBI. Ichiro could never do that with singles alone.
Even a guy like Whit Merrifield can match Arraez in rbi/run production– and better D even, but not exceptional in any of the stat categories.
Blue Baron
@martras: And? What trade did they make?
Brew’88
@toshiro. Since the Marlins are fronting the Pads his entire 2024 salary, they aren’t paying a premium (in terms of salary) for the high average.
websoulsurfer
Last 2 weeks – .351/.362/.439/.801
websoulsurfer
Padres are paying nothing for that average. The Marlins are paying all but the major league minimum of his salary this season.
RBI is a team stat. The more guys on base in front of the hitter, the more RBI they get. Not many guys on base when you hit first in the batting order.
Arraez is a career 122 OPS+ hitter. 22% better than MLB average. For his career his numbers look almost exactly the same as Tony Gwynn’s did through his first 5 seasons. That is incredibly valuable.
Arraez is a 4 WAR player. Merrifield can’t come close to that at his age. Hasn’t since 2018.
stymeedone
So you don’t find an .800+ OPS attractive? So you only look at this years small sample size, rather than his track record? Having little defensive skill is a problem with Arraez, but not with Bogaerts? In a league/sport where no one hits for average anymore, the one eyed man is king!
stymeedone
WAR isn’t reality. As an ability becomes common, its value decreases. As an ability becomes rare, it becomes more valuable. The ability to regularly challenge for the batting title is rare. Therefore its valuable, and I haven’t seen WAR adjust for the lack of hitting.
stymeedone
How does being slow translate to the Phillies using Schwarber as a leadoff hitter? Getting on base is more important than speed. Leadoff hitters are reliant on the ability of the 8 & 9 hitter getting on base to receive RBI opportunities. The Yankees and Red Sox during Damon’s career were stacked and play in band boxes. Ichiro played in a pitchers park on a team with an actual budget.
toshiro
Guys like Arraez and Ichiro hitting in the leadoff spot ( or anywhere) get low RBI — rarely cracking 60.. Guys like Damon and Merrifield swing harder, get doubles, tripled and homers and can get 70+ rbi even from the leadoff spot. Because they have speed ( something that Arraez lacks ), they can get 90 – 100 runs even with a .350 or less on base. Merrifield scored 97 runs in 2021 with a .311 onbase.
Someone like Damon is ideal — his avg is discounted vs an Ichiro/Arraez but he gets on base the same amount by walking more. Harder swing/hits for more rbi and fast for lots of runs scores (Arraez will never break 100 runs, probly not even 90 on any team in his career — speed is a huge factor along with onbase ).
Guard the Vogt
@Blue Baron… Exactly! Why not? That’s what I was asking you.
Blue Baron
@Guard the Vogt: And where did I disagree with you?
Guard the Vogt
@blue Baron lol Touche
Ma4170
Arraez drove in 69 last year, which is a lot considering the offense. His OPS w RISP was 1066 and w men on was 1032, with SLG above 560 for both. In a better offense he would have had RBI numbers more in line w the damon or trea turner types.
Brew’88
okay CHECK. Now try to stay at .500 (or better if possible) until AS break. Then the schedule lightens up considerably for the playoff run
outinleftfield
Arraez has a 4.2 WAR average post-COVID. That seems like it’s quite valuable. Are there any teams that wouldn’t want a 2B that is putting up that kind of numbers?
Blue Baron
@outinleftfield: I would rather have the lights out pitcher the Marlins traded for him, Pablo Lopez.
Deleted Userr
@Blue Baron And the Padres would rather have Abrams, Gore and Wood back that Michael King and Kyle Higashioka.
Ma4170
I like arraez but would absolutely rather have lopez
Ma4170
You’d have to include Cease in that since they used Thorpe to get Cease.
Deleted Userr
@Ma4170 No Soto trades and they use Lesko or Snelling instead of Thorpe to get Cease. Easy and simple.
Scrap Iron
@Tacoshells lol it’s early May, ALL teams have a shot at #1. Padres have proven they can’t win, regardless of how many cheat codes they use to make a video-game type of team.
alphabravo619
LLL (x3), RRR (x3), up down, up down, A&B button at the same time-
.350+ batting average, 420 OBP, and NL batting champ for the 2024 WS Champs, San Diego Padres
Yup
StusFirstDollar
Peter Bendix is trying to save Tampa Bay from relocation LOL
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Padres fighting for WC, Marlins folding.
I don’t know these prospects well enough to opine.
Think Ha Seong Kim has a new home next year.
ACK
It would make sense with Kim, However Kim is playing his way into a lower priced contract that the Padres maybe able to afford in 2025.
Blue Baron
@ACK: That doesn’t make sense. Player salaries generally don’t go down.
Gwynning
Blue, I am reading ACK’s statement as saying “Kim isn’t playing himself into a top-tier SS contract, hence the Pads might be able to keep him around” not “Kim is in line for a paycut”
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Baron
I think he means that the increase in Ha Seong Kim’s salary will be large, but maybe not quite as massive as thought a month ago.
That name is already taken
and Cubs playing waaaaaaaaaay over their heads.
Blue Baron
What do the Cubs have to do with this discussion, and how do you know they’re playing over their heads?
They’re 19-14, and according to Bill Parcells, “you are what your record says you are.”
T8Rcheese1
Could very well be 24-9ish with a better pen but thats baseball.. Also how would they be playing over their heads with their too starter from a year ago and their top two hitter on the IL? A cards fan may have mad me that comment.
coloredpaper
@Blue nothing at all. Guess the Cubs are just living rent free in @TNIAT ‘s head lol
Anyways, the Marlins are terrible. New owners, same cheapness.
stymeedone
Every team plays with injuries, and the depth on the team has to cover. Yes, you are what your record says you are, even if you list excuses.
BaseballisLife
The way Kim is hitting, if he finishes out 2024 at the same level I would think he would opt in for 2025 with the Padres.
Rally Goose
Nah. Even with his slow start he’s still on pace for 3.7 WAR. That would make 1/$5m a pretty easy “no” for him.
BaseballisLife
He has an $8.5 million option for 2025
Rally Goose
Nope. $7m option with a $2m buyout. So a $5m decision.
outinleftfield
BIL, if he continues to play defense at this high of a level, its unlikely he opts in, but you never know. They love him in San Diego and its possible they get creative and keep his long term AAV price low anyway.
Rally Goose
Just to clear up any confusion and not waste any more of anyone else’s time: Ha-Seong Kim is not playing for $5m in 2025.
BaseballisLife
Its apparent you don’t actually read the articles on this website.
His contact is 4/28 and 5/39 with the option.
BaseballisLife
“DEC. 31, 6:06pm: The Padres have announced Kim’s signing. His deal includes a mutual option for 2025. The option could increase the value to $39MM”
Rally Goose
Exactly. $7m per year for 5 years with the last year being a mutual option and up to $4m in possible incentives. So $39m if the mutual option is picked up and all incentives are reached. I did not know about the incentives in the contract so thanks for that.
Option still isn’t going to get picked up by both sides.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Because Arraez has played 8 games at SS..which makes him an automatic Padre.
Br857
Because he is good at baseball
Guybird
Why not
UncommonSense
The Kim Ng curse?
Zombie Bukowski
Big win for the Fathers. Only guy who could sting is Hudson and he is easily 3 year away at best. Guys look at farm numbers(“gave up their #6, #9 and #11 they got fleeced durrrrrr!!!”) have no understanding or clue how farm systems, drafting, and player development work.
GabeOfThrones
Braves are too good.
neurogame
Did the Marlins get better prospects back by paying the majority of Arraez’s salary?
Brew88
Noooooooooooo
Gwynning
That’s the problem with having fantastic Farm work… you run into 40 Man issues. This is a fine trade by AJ, but as usual, only time will tell. Nobody sent was deemed “necessary” to the blueprint. While I did like Marsee, he was basically expendable so I’m ok with using his value.
Deleted Userr
None of the prospects surrendered are R5 eligible this offseason.
Gwynning
True LH, but all were after ’25, coinciding with Arraez’s control. I suspect AJ works ahead (on his future 40s) sometimes. Just a hunch.
Jean Matrac
Gwynning, I agree. Why wait until they are eligible for the Rule 5 draft, and lose trade leverage, with other teams knowing the Padres have to either protect, or trade them?
Deleted Userr
@Gwynning Dillon Head not Rule 5 eligible until after 2027.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac You can’t make that argument when Preller gives 40-man spots to Luis Campusano and Ryan Weathers 1 and 2 years before either was Rule 5 eligible for 4 PA’s/4 outs recorded in games the Padres lost anyways.
Brew88
I saw Go in ST and in minors games, dumping him was the smartest part of this deal IMHO
Gwynning
Yeah I meant all “but Head” (as he’s 19) but I got ahead of myself there… good catches LH.
Jean Matrac
harambe, Your argument makes no sense. By putting Campusano on the 40-man they lost Erik Sabrowski, a 26 year-old relief pitcher, currently in AA, and with all of 3.0 IP in AAA.
Campusano was clearly their catcher of the future and was needed as back-up to Caratini in 2021 until Austin Nola came back from injury.
The Weathers example is even more absurd. He pitched in 30 games in 2021, 3 years after being drafted. By promoting him they weren’t able to protect Caleb Boushley, currently a 30 year old pitcher with all of 2.1 IP of ML experience.
That year they also lost Carlos Guarate, and Luarbert Arias in rounds 3 and 4 respectively. Every year is different, some years there are more guys needing to be protected. Clearly, when Campusano and Weathers were added to the 40-man the quality of unprotected players was low, and Preller didn’t need to save protected spots.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac Neither of the dudes you mentioned were next in line for a roster spot, neither of Camp or Weathers played a significant role in 2021, Weathers probably doesn’t get called up at all in 2021 if he isn’t already on the 40 and if nothing else, having two extra 40-man spots to work with increases Preller’s leverage in trades as it makes other GM’s less able to say “You can trade that dude to us now or we can take him from you in December.” Let’s not pretend that throwing away 40-man roster spots doesn’t have consequences.
Gwynning
LH, don’t forget Campy only had 4 PAs because he broke his finger in the game. Pretty impressive debut, too, with that oppo-taco and all. Nobody had the advantage of hindsight in the moment…
Deleted Userr
You still can’t use “40-man logjam” as an excuse when Preller is being that wasteful with roster spots. I know they both busted but people were defending the Mitch Moreland trade on the grounds that Jeisson Rosario and Hudson Potts were going to be Rule 5 eligible that offseason. Not putting Campy and Weathers on the roster would have effortlessly freed up roster spots for both of them.
Gwynning
Bottomline, AJ makes the roster AND stocks the Farm. We’re doing pretty good at both. Some of his moves might be deserving of more scrutiny than others; making the “right” call on fringe 40 Manners doesn’t seem to he an area of concern. But hey, you do you back at ya! Cheers LH, go Pads.
Deleted Userr
Trading them was the right call in hindsight. But they would have had more trade value if we hadn’t clogged up our 40-man roster with guys that didn’t need spots. Such things absolutely have ripple effects.
Jean Matrac
harambe, You’ve ignored my point that every year is different. Some years the quantity of players needing to be protected is higher, and in others it’s lower. Clearly, seeing the 4 players the Padres lost in the Rule 5 draft, when they used 40-man spots for Campusano, and Weathers, it wasn’t necessary to hold open 40-man spots.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac “We had to trade them because we were going to lose them to the Rule 5 draft if we didn’t” is only a valid excuse if you aren’t being wasteful with your 40-man spots. Preller was.
Jean Matrac
harambe, Again, the situation varies season to season. You’re using the example of Preller for putting Campusano and Weathers on the 40-man from a few seasons ago to criticize a trade this season, Clearly, open 40-man slots weren’t needed when Campusano and Weathers were added.
For your criticism to be valid, you need to name guys that were added this season that didn’t need to be. I stand by my original post, that it’s better to trade guys before there’s a roster crunch, which other teams will be aware of, instead of waiting until there is one, thereby losing leverage.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac If open roster spots weren’t needed at the end of 2020 why were people defending the Moreland trade on the grounds that we were going to lose Jeisson Rosario and Hudson Potts to the Rule 5 draft anyway HUH? HUH? HUH?
GabeOfThrones
I don’t think Preller operates out of concerns for being able to stash players on the 40-man. I think he just operates out of the principle that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, so he’d always rather trade prospects for proven commodities. Even more so now that his job is definitely in jeopardy.
Deleted Userr
His job isn’t in jeopardy at all he’s signed through 2026 and the owners love him for some reason.
Longtimecoming
Brew, when I saw Marsee I thought of you. With Merrill’s play I think he is expendable. Still have CF guys high on the prospect list too.
I said before we just need 1 of those guys to make it and well, I hope we kept the right one!
Pauley needs a season at AAA and in-line Wade for utility but not DH.
For the record, I see Kim leaving and shifting Bog back and Cro to 2b anyway for 25. I was hoping for Goldie but Arraez can have 1b.
If Kim doesn’t start hitting that may happen sooner!
Brew88
@LT. Agree about Pauley. Even more pressing that Merrill works out now that Marsee, Head, Zavala are gone. Only Bush remains or am I forgetting a prospect? He is quite an athlete but a ways to go as a hitter. Now that Cron is showing some power again, maybe he can stick at 1b even after Kim departs.
Longtimecoming
Head is the remaining member of the group of CF prospects. There is still the possibility of shifting Tatis to CF and Merrill back to SS and someone being added or Pauly for RF in 2025.
Not the 1st option but as Kim leaves, things will shift around depending on who can be added in FA next year.
I like the add while cringing at a loss of prospects, realizing it is a necessity to trade those guys at some point because they: (a) won’t all make it to mlb; and (b) if they did, they can’t all play at the same time.
Brew’88
The only hurt I feel with this trade is Head, and I was hoping that if they added a hitter it would be a power bat (though Tony Gwynn light aint bad either). The ceiling on Marsee and Marts was very limited so they made good value use of those two by including them in the trade. The Pads never seem to (successfully) bring up OF prospects. As evidenced by the OF now, comprised of a bunch of IFers who transitioned. I think Wood was going to become the exception, and maybe Head.
With Arraez, now they have a tough decision with Solano/Wade.
websoulsurfer
If Kim doesn’t start hitting he will accept his player option for 2025.
Simm
He is still on pace for a 3.7 war. He won’t be accepting that no matter what.
Rally Goose
@websoulsurfer…
1. As Simm said, he is still on pace for 3.7 WAR. So no, he will not accept 1/$5m
2. It is a mutual option so if he struggles to the point that he actually would accept it then the Padres will decline it.
websoulsurfer
3.7 WAR doesn’t mean much money when its ALL on defense. in fact, can you name a single player that got $8.5 million in FA with an OPS under .700?
But because of that defense, if he finishes the season with a sub .700 OPS the Padres would definitely pick up their half of the mutual option. That is a given.
Rally Goose
@websoulsurfer…
“3.7 WAR doesn’t mean much money when its ALL on defense.”
Well that’s a silly thing to say. A run scored = a run saved.
“in fact, can you name a single player that got $8.5 million in FA with an OPS under .700?”
I don’t have to because Kim’s option is a $5m decision ($7m option with a $2m buyout).
“But because of that defense, if he finishes the season with a sub .700 OPS the Padres would definitely pick up their half of the mutual option. That is a given.”
And Kim would definitely decline it for all the same reasons that the Padres would pick it up.
Fernando Ringworm Jr.
Why would the Padres “definitely pick up their half of the mutual option” if Kim finishes the season with.a .700 OPS if 3.7 WAR doesn’t matter when it’s all on defense and when no player with an OPS under. 700 has ever gotten that much money, as you said?
outinleftfield
Been reading your argument and curious if either of you can name any glove first infielders that will make $9 million this season like Kim will if he hits 550 PA ($8 million plus $1 million bonus) or $11 million next season like Kim would if he accepted the option? I can’t find any, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Maybe you could include Andres Jimenez, but he is making just $5 million this season.
If he continues to hit like he has, .209 with a .699 OPS, will any team pay him more than the $9 million difference between his $11 million mutual option for 2025 and the $2 million buyout?
Obviously, if he can get back to hitting like he did last season he will be looking at a $20 million AAV long term deal.
Rally Goose
Kim won’t make $9m if that option is picked up. He will make $5m. The first $2m is his no matter what and then he gets an extra $5m if the option is picked up.
If he hits so poorly this year that any team wouldn’t pay him more than $5m then the Padres will be part of that “any team.” You can count on one hand all of the mutual options that have been picked up in this century.
Fernando Ringworm Jr.
@Rally and outinleftfield Spotrac says $7m. SDUT says $8m. BBRef and Cot’s don’t even specify. They all say $2m buyout. Last mutual option I remember getting picked up was Jason Giambi back in 2011.
johnnybadd2019
Nice
Jake Biggar
AJ Preller is just always full send mode
Ranger Danger19
Everyone loves to hate him but he always has pieces to deal. Must be doing something right
Manfred’s playing with the balls
@Ranger
AJ is one of the games best scouts and padres have a great development system so he can build a farm fast. Might not best contract negotiator but he makes the game more interesting. I actually like the trade for SD in value, even if I find adding a DH this way strange.
Deleted Userr
Padres have a great development system? Are you making this up as you go along?
Deleted Userr
Oh really? Name 5 players the Padres have developed that are playing for them right now.
And no. Trading prospects when they are at the upper levels of the minors or shortly after they make their MLB debuts is affirmatively *NOT* development!
its_happening
Seems the Pads have developed more duds than studs. Preller to his credit has traded most of them. However to little success. Very little.
JSC Cubbs
Jackson Merrill, Luis campusano, fernando tatis Jr., Matt Waldron, Adrian Morejon.
(If you want to balk at FTJ, Jose Azocar)
Ma4170
Yes, there are obviously a few that have met or exceeded expectations, but most have disappointed for being ranked so highly on prospect lists.
Simm
Not really, they traded away most before they got a real chance.
I Believe We Can Win
“Developing guys for 3-4-5 years who make it to AAA or even debut in the MLB isn’t development”
So what exactly were they doing in the Padres minor league affiliates those 3-4-5 years?
Brew’88
Lots of amateur GM talk here, when we’re all just fans. Depends upon the definition of “develop”. Many great players in MLB today might give credit to how the Padres developed their talent in the minors before being traded.
For example, they were developing Iriarte, who might benefit from that development in the system, but is not pitching for another team. They are “developing” Snelling, but he too might get traded before he ever pitches for the ML squad. It’s still development in my opinion. But if by development you mean homegrowns or near homegrowns who end up as good players on the ML roster, then yeah there are very view on Pads under the direction of AJP. Campy, Tatis, Merrill are examples though.
Deleted Userr
Waldron, Morejon and Azocar aren’t impact players, Merrill has slumped hard after a fast start and Campusano has been replacement level this year.
Deleted Userr
@I Believe We Can Win Successfully getting those dudes over the hump into the majors is the key to the equation. There’s no point in having a top farm system if you can’t do that.
Deleted Userr
@Brew’88 Lots of former Padres prospects have said (in less colorful language) that the Padres’ developmental system is shxt. Quantrill, Brash, etc. But perhaps the biggest case of Preller mishandling a prospects development was Luis Urias. It was terrible the way they treated him.
“But if by development you mean homegrowns or near homegrowns who end up as good players on the ML roster…”
Yeah. That’s what I mean.
JSC Cubbs
Well, if Prellers farm isn’t developing good talent… then isn’t what he’s doing, Trading them for bona fide mlb talent, exactly what he should be doing?
Agree or disagree with the padres farm results, we can all agree that Preller has a top notch team of publicists making the league swoon over his crop.
Brew’88
@Harambe. Yeah, I mean, I’m aware of your interpretation of development and many (especially in the actual industry) have that interpretation. But I think a lot of folks on this site don’t understand the difference and assume “player development” means building a quality ML system and prospects resume. The distinction is good to present sometimes.
Deleted Userr
@JSC Cubbs That’s… not what development is.
Deleted Userr
@Brew’88 That’s their problem not mine.
websoulsurfer
17% of top 100 prospects ever become a MLB average or 2 WAR player. ALL teams have most of their top prospects miss.
Brew’88
Some believe player “development” continues to happen at the MLB level and includes coaching guys to improve aspects of their game. Like developing Merrill and Tati into OFers, good ones. Some say the Pads developed Cronenworth into a ML hitter after the trade. Some are now saying they have uniquely developed the hitting stroke of J. Profar. Then there’s what Niebla does to wayward pitchers…..
Deleted Userr
Most players are not finished products on the day they first touch the majors.
JoeBrady
he always has pieces to deal.
======================
I’ve never seen anyone continuously coming up with players like Preller.
SODOMOJO
HOW COME NO ONE WANTS HIM, MAN?!?!?
Canuckleball
In this case, he was in Miami from the previous administration. He has a very specific skillset that perhaps the current group aren’t as enamored with.
In general, He does exactly one thing well. And these days, batting average isn’t as highly thought of as it used to be.
SODOMOJO
It seems so wild that the best bat to ball guy in baseball, the best contact hitter in the game can’t settle into a team, position, nothing. He’s a unique case
gbs42
Batting average had been thought of too highly for a very long time, and now every baseball exec and many fans understand there are stats that describe hitting prowess much better.
SODOMOJO
Yeah, that’s great but I’m still extremely impressed by Arraez and you should be too. His whole game is contact and BA and he still averages about 4 WAR per full year; and that’s through changing positions, and not being very good defensively in the first place. Kind of goes against your argument. He manages to be very productive despite little to no power or other peripheral stats.
Stevil
I don’t know why anyone would think batting average is a bad thing. Hits are better than walks, but he’s a hitter that rarely whiffs and walks plenty as well.
He hasn’t been traded because he’s bad. He’s been in demand because he’s good!
The question for me is whether or not SD keeps him beyond July. Though they needed a DH, they’re two games below .500, have a bottom-6 pitching staff.
Braves_saints_celts
I agree somewhat but the only hits that are better than walks are doubles triples and home runs, singles are literally neutral to walks as they both end up on first base, aside from errors made on singles where the runner advances.
Simm
Unless you have runners on than single are worth more than walks. Yes to see a walk score a runner from second, theirs or advance a runner from 1st to 3rd
They may count the same on the ops meter but they aren’t the same.
Braves_saints_celts
Yeah I kind of feel dumb, I don’t know what I was doing not thinking about runners on base when singles are hit, in that case you are entirely right. Lol wow I feel stupid now.
SODOMOJO
This argument never gets anywhere. Obviously you want doubles and dingers more than you want singles. However, if you hit a poop load, overwhelming amount of singles, your production can approach, rival or even exceed guys that are NOT contact hitters, and rely on slug. Ichiro.
There is no reason to feel so strongly one way or the other about it. Other than, Arraez is one of the best in the game at what he does. Thats why he’s Ichiros favorite player (also Rod Carew): espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34156388/ichiro-rod-carew-…
Billg7987
No, that’s not true. A hit has more value because errors exist and runners score from second. They aren’t much more valuable, but they are slightly.
UncommonSense
Batting average is anything but
Rexhudler86
Wouldn’t any team want him to leadoff or hit second. His case is different because he’s not a good defender.
billw-2
yeah, hit .245 but walk a ton, is how you get in the HOF
MLB Top 100 Commenter
They can trade Ha Seong Kim move Arraez to 1B, Crony to 2B and Bogey to shortstop. Or just move Merrill to shortstop.
its_happening
Naw singles can push a runner first to third, second to home and score from third. Walks can be advantageous to the defense to set up the force and can’t drive in runs unless the bases are loaded.
gbs42
Stevil, I never said batting average is a bad thing. It’s just not nearly as important as OBP and, or SLG. If a hitter bats .350, of course that’s terrific, because it means he’s getting on base more than 35% of the time (assuming he walks some, too), which is well above average.
Would I take a .350 BA and .380 OBP over a .280 BA and .380 OBP? Yes, because singles are more valuable than walks.
But I’d take a .280 BA and .420 OBP over a .350 BA and .380 OBP because avoiding outs whatever way it’s done is critical.
And SLG needs to be considered, too, another stat that’s more important than BA.
gbs42
SODO, Ichiro’s highest OPS+ was 130, which is very good but not stellar. He didn’t walk much or hit for much power, which limited his offensive prowess. He was a terrific base runner and defender, which added to his overall value.
I’m not disparaging him. He’s clearly a Hall of Famer.
gbs42
billw-2, that’s confirmation bias because for nearly a century voters and fans put too much emphasis on BA.
How about this? Who would you take?
Player A: .311 BA, .355 OBP, .402 SLG
Player B: .267 BA, .380 OBP, .527 SLG
its_happening
Take .350 average every day of the week.
Because a chunk of the higher OBP is the defense “conceding” a walk, either because pitcher wants the matchup, puts on the force play, puts on the double play, forces a pinch hitter/pitching change. Some walks are based on what the defense wants in a particular scenario. In other words, a walk can set up the out and situation the defense wants. The .350 average hitter over .280 here, easily.
Stevil
You think a walk is as good as a single when there’s a runner on 3rd or 2nd?
I don’t.
Stevil
Sorry to pile on. I didn’t see your response before I responded again.
SODOMOJO
Round and round we go
Dirkdiggler2398
Arraez is a good player as a Phillies fan I seen him single Handedly win the marlins game I’d go as far as saying without him last year the marlins finish under 500 and a distant way from WC Arraez got off to that insane start to season where he batted close to 400 for the 1st 2-3 months im shocked by all the hate on his game
JoeBrady
There is no reason to feel so strongly one way or the other about it.
=========================
Thank you.
The place where people always go awry is that while singles are better than walks, they aren’t as good as doubles, triples and HRs.
It’s almost like there should be a stat like OPS which accommodates all the hits and walks.
gbs42
Dirk, I’m not sure if you’re saying there’s hate in this comments section on his game. He’s valuable, but his game is mostly a bunch of singles, which limits his ceiling.
gbs42
Stevil, in those limited circumstances, of course a single is more valuable, but those circumstances are a small percentage of PAs.
bruce1622
Say there’s a runner on 2nd. It takes TGREE WALKS to get that runner home, versus many singles.
Rexhudler86
@stevil his problem is he doesn’t have a position. But one of the best contact guys in the mlb. The Minnesota fans were ripping on him for defense when they traded him for López
SODOMOJO
I would be really interested in seeing his WAR over a full season at DH. He’s not sexy enough for 1b, and he’s just not QUITE athletic enough to be a good 2b.
toshiro
Agree that is true. But guys like Arraez always have low RBI. Fact is, most of the time if there is a runner, he’s on first. You need a homer, triple or a strong double to score him. Singles will advance him, but the chance of a hit that moves a runniner is ~ 27%. If Arraez moves him to 2nd or 3rd, you need an additional hit even– another 27%, so that’s .31 * .27 = 8% chance of scoring. Not all that strong. And Arraez is slow, so he’s not a good 1st to 3rd or, more importantly, 2nd to home candidate.
Even the immortal Rod Carew, who was similar to Arraez in hitting ( lotsa singles, few extra base hits ) had low rbi. The few years he topped 60 rbi, he went nuts with the avg AND extra base hits. Damon consistently topped 60-70-80 rbi, even 90+ and on KC as well with his propensity for a solid but not extraordinary avg and many extra base hits ( incl hrs ).
its_happening
Also depends on where you hit in the order.
JackStrawb
@its_happening It’s a pity we can’t cure casual fans of this nonsense. There are at least 7 (seven) ways putting a ball in play can hurt the team doing the hitting.
HINT: OUTS ACCRUE.
There are enough ways putting the ball in play costs, that the overall cost of a strikeout versus making an out(s) by putting the ball in play is all of 0.8 runs per 100 outs. That’s not even one run per 100 strikeouts.
Btw, good hitters strike out more often than other hitters.
HINT: OUTS ACCRUE.
its_happening
Sure.
Rolling a grounder to 2B with a runner on second and none out is considered an 0-1, hurts the batting average, hurts OBP, hurts slugging etc. But, if that same hitter took a walk to set up the DP, helps OBP.
Now, most defenses would consider the walk with one out an a runner on second rather than go first and second with none out. Sometimes taking a walk isn’t a great thing.
Lanidrac
Perhaps not, but his extremely high batting averages have also led to very high on base percentages.
gbs42
Lanidrac, that’s exactly my point. Whatever it takes to get a high OBP – hits, walks, or HBP.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
That because team are being run by people trained in business, not baseball people. They understand hype, advertising and sales.
Baseball now caters instead of teaches.
RobM
HOW COME EVERYONE WANTS HIM, MAN?!?!?
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
He’ll play OF obviously
Deleted Userr
Uh oh
ChetLemonaid
Salas, Head, and Mazur. Wow
petersdylan36
There’s no way they trade Ethan Salas
Deleted Userr
Or Trea Turner or MacKenzie Gore or James Wood.
Jean Matrac
While trading Turner was clearly a mistake, we’re talking about compensation for Luis Arraez, not Juan Soto.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac The Soto trade just might be worse than the Myers trade.
Jean Matrac
Trading for a future HoFer early in his career, even if it doesn’t work out, is never a bad trade. It only looks bad in hindsight, which makes any criticism unjustified.
Deleted Userr
Yes it is a bad trade.
Jean Matrac
Hindsight counts for nothing.
Deleted Userr
I hated that trade when it happened and you can go search for my old comments if you don’t believe me.
Jean Matrac
Not liking a trade, and knowing before hand that it won’t pan out, are two different things. Plenty of people don’t like trades that turn out to be good. Only someone that can see into the future can know that a trade will turn out bad. SD had a legitimate shot to win it all in 2022. Every GM/PBO in baseball, given an opportunity to win a title, will go for it.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac And yet other GMs/PBOs of contending teams HAD the opportunity to trade for Soto and passed.
Jean Matrac
You do not know that. Not being able to agree on a trade does not equate to passing. The Nat’s liked the package from the Padres better than any other offer.
Teams have their own player rankings of every other team’s prospects. And teams differ in their opinions on those players. Top 30 or top 100 rankings mean nothing to teams. What some other team offered might have been more attractive had Soto been on a different team.
Fans tend to over-value prospects, but most prospects don’t become even ML average. To say that every other contending team had the chance, and passed on a future HoFer, is just silly.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac Other teams COULD have upped their ante and outbid the Padres for Soto. They CHOSE not to. The Cardinals and Yankees took all of their best prospects off the table so he went to San Diego. Pretty simple equation.
Jean Matrac
You seem to still be laboring under the delusion that there’s some universally agreed on ranking of prospects, which is not the case.
And, unless you’ve been hanging out in the offices with the GMs/PBOs of the other teams interested in Soto, then you have no idea who the other teams were offering, or if they took prospects off the table. That the Nat’s accepted the Padres’ offer is not evidence of any of your assertions.
Your opinion is based entirely on supposition, without nearly enough info to come to the conclusions that you have. The first step in understanding anything is recognizing what you don’t know.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac It was widely reported that the Cardinals refused to offer Jordan Walker and the Yankees refused to offer Jasson Dominguez. If you look at their farm systems at the time they *had* the capital to match the Padres’ offer. Would have devastated their farms but they *could* have done it. They chose not to. So clearly they disagree with your assertion that “Any GM would have made that trade.”
Jean Matrac
I’m not a Padres’ fan, and I’ve commented a couple of times before that I was glad that Preller wasn’t running my team. So I think I’m able to be objective here.
Obviously, when I said any GM/PBO would have made that trade, it would have been under the same circumstances that Preller had. No GM/PBO is going to devastate their farm for any trade. But given the depth of the Padres system, then yes, any GM/PBO would have done that. Despite that trade, the MLB pipeline currently has SD ranked as the 4th best farm system.
Again, Soto is a future HoFer. It takes trading away quality to acquire that kind of talent. The Padres made the best offer which is how they got him.
When a team feels like they have a shot at winning it all, and they have the prospect depth to acquire a huge talent, hoarding that depth is contrary to how most teams would operate. Having Soto gave SD a much better chance at winning a title than they had with Gore and Abrams. Especially in how they were producing at the time, and with Wood and Hassell still in the MiLs.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac Other teams felt like they had a shot at winning at all and had the prospect depth to pull it off and chose not to. I’ve proven this. And Preller did devastate the farm for a trade. The fact that he was able to rebuild it doesn’t change that. Other GM’s could do the same.
Jean Matrac
You haven’t proven anything. All we know is the end result, and you’re reading what you want onto it. We have no idea what the other offers were.
The farm couldn’t have possibly been that devastated to come back so quickly. If it was that easy to do, we’d see a lot more movement in the ranking for all teams.
To assume the Padres made the only good offer is absurd. In fact we can deduce from the prospects Preller gave up that there were other good offers. Otherwise he doesn’t give up that much if he doesn’t have to.
We don’t know what the Nat’s considered to be the second best offer, nor do we know how close in value it was to SD’s offer. We don’t know how many viable offers there were. You see the outcome and simply assume what happened so it fits your narrative.
But regardless of all that teams have done similar things in the past when they have a chance for a title, The Cubs trading Gleyber Torres for Aroldis Chapman for instance. The Giants trading Zack Wheeler for Carlos Beltran. The Dodgers trading Josiah Grey and Keibert Ruiz for Max Scherzer and Trea Turner. The difference with Soto was he had the potential for 3 postseasons with SD. That’s huge value and why Preller gave up so much.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac I’m not assuming the Padres made the only good offer. Just that other teams had the ability to match or exceed the Padres’ offer and chose not to. So they disagree with your assessment that “Any GM of a contending team would have made the Soto trade.” They had the chance and they chose not to.
All of the trades you mentioned are much maligned today except Chapman for Torres and that’s only because they won it all. The Padres did not.
Now go away. You’ve already wasted more than enough of my time here.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac I can’t see you anymore. Keep screaming into the abyss.
Jean Matrac
“…screaming into the abyss.”
Ha. Hey, characterize it anyway you like if you need to for your emotional needs. You don’t want to debate anymore? Fine, run away. That’s the usual result when someone comes unarmed to a battle of wits.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac
“You are so obtuse that you’re blind obvious point; that those trades do show that GM’s would make the Soto trade.”
Actually they don’t. None of the packages those teams gave up were anywhere close to Abrams + Gore + Wood + Hassell + Susana.
“You want me to go away because I’ve refuted all your assumptions with facts and logic, and you can’t handle it.”
No I want you to go away because you keep bashing your head against the wall trying to argue a point I’ve already destroyed on an 8-day old thread.
“That’s the usual result when someone comes unarmed to a battle of wits.”
As evidenced by you.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac I know and knew exactly why Soto cost more. Still one of the worst trades of all time and the other GM’s are still laughing at Preller for doing it.
Jean Matrac
Glad to see you concede, that your point was irrelevant when you wrote: “None of the packages those teams gave up were anywhere close to Abrams + Gore + Wood + Hassell + Susana.”. If you understood, why write that in the first place?
“…other GM’s are still laughing at Preller for doing it.”
This is the perfect example of your stating as fact what is pure conjecture on your part; something you can’t possibly know is true or not. Certainly past GM work suggests that’s simply incorrect. Maybe try some using facts for a change, instead of your imaginings.
Deleted Userr
“Glad to see you concede”
I did nothing of the kind.
“If you understood, why write that in the first place?”
To point out that just because other GM’s made those trades doesn’t mean that “any GM of a contender would have made the Soto trade.”
“This is the perfect example of your stating as fact what is pure conjecture on your part; something you can’t possibly know is true or not.”
It is true. Literally no one except the Preller homers think he has done a good job.
“Certainly past GM work suggests that’s simply incorrect.”
It doesn’t.
“Maybe try some using facts for a change, instead of your imaginings.”
Maybe you should apply for one of the GM opening next offseason since you think you know so much about baseball.
Jean Matrac
Wow, just more of that “I know you are, but what am I?”, childish BS. If you want any credibility whatsoever. maybe try to come up with an original thought, instead of just repeating what I wrote in my posts back at me.
“Maybe you should apply for one of the GM opening next offseason since you think you know so much about baseball.”
How ironic. The difference between you and me is that I’m well aware of what I don’t know. You seem to be the one that “knows” what other teams offered for Soto; that “knows” what prospects will develop into; that “knows” what other GMs think about the Soto trade, and “knows” what trades will pan out, and which ones won’t. But keep on accusing others of doing what you’re guilty of, and have been doing throughout this thread.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac I don’t know what other teams offered. I do know they had the prospect capital to match the Padres’ offer and didn’t do it. And literally everyone who isn’t a Preller homer thinks the Soto trade was stupid. I don’t know what prospects will develop into but I do know the Padres could have gotten the pitching they needed without giving up Abrams, Gore or Wood.
“If you want any credibility whatsoever.”
Lol of all the people to talk about credibility and self awareness… Rofl
Gwynning
More like ChetKoolaid is that’s what you’re thinking!
Moonlight Graham
A little early for a fire sale, isn’t it?
VermonsterSD
By Miami?
Blackpink in the area
Arraez was only under control through 2025. And the Marlins aren’t going anywhere this year. Might as well move him.
Tiger22matt
You figure they would get more than a half a bag of chips though.
Blackpink in the area
They got 3 legit prospects. And Arraez just isn’t that good. I do think he will hit well in that ballpark in San Diego but he’s limited defensively.
Tiger22matt
6, 9 and 13 in the Padres system aren’t legit prospects.
Blackpink in the area
Head is legit. Marsee is OK. The other guy probably a bench guy at best.
Tiger22matt
Mlb has all 3 as bench players….. not a great haul.
Blackpink in the area
No they dont. Head was a first round pick from last year out of high school. Marsee they say has a floor of a 4th outfielder.
Tiger22matt
Agree to disagree. I don’t see any of these guys being starters.
noles007
Well you’re not a ML Scout or GM
Tiger22matt
Neither are the Marlins front office. Trading a 2 time batting champ and not getting a single player from the Padres top 5 is a loss.
Blackpink in the area
It’s less than 2 years of Arraez. And he really is a 1 tool player. He’s a poor defender. He has no power. If even one of these guys turns into a decent big leaguer the Marlins win this deal.
OldSaltUSN
@Blackpink
Yep, Arraez is really an atypical type of target for the Padres (but apparently, AJP was trying to acquire him last offseason). Preller seems to stress athleticism and versatility. How many guys on the current roster can play two, three, or four different positions effectively. The only logical place to play the infielder Arraez in an infield consisting of Cronenworth, Bogaerts, Kim, and Machado, with guys like Jackson Merrill, or Profar, or Wade, or Eguy Rosario, etc. ahead of him on the defensive depth chart, is at DH. However, most teams want a thumper at DH. Then again, the Padres have (or should have) all the thumpers they need for HR or extra bases. They have had good tablesetters in Cronenworth, Bogaerts, Profar, and even Kim, but Arraez is arguably more consistent as a contact hitter than any of them. Plus, he frees them up for other offensive roles.
Because of Arraez’s defensive limitations, this is actually one of the more interesting trade by Preller. We’ll see how it works out.
Blackpink in the area
Yeah I don’t hate the deal or Arraez. But I watched the Marlins play my Cardinals earlier in the year and Arraez was terrible at 2b. He’s got 1 really great tool. He’s the best at that one thing but that’s it.
I think the Padres need to go for it. They have a window before the Bogarts and Machado deals start to go south and they need to win now. So with that in mind I get why the Padres made this deal. And gosh the Padres have done a great job drafting and developing talent so they have the young talent to trade without gutting the system.
boltz82
I agree, the padres won this trade it seems. Generally some low level prospects and dumping a contract from a free agent signing who was getting raised at AA.
BaseballisLife
The last 3 seasons Arraez has averaged 4.2 WAR. None of those prospects is expected to be close to that good. Head is the best of them and he is a contact only hitter with plus, plus speed and no real power. Marsee projects as a 4th OF and Martorella is a DH/1B type in AA.
Tiger22matt
That’s exactly what I’m saying but getting hammered for it. The Marlins should have went for quality but went for quantity. One of those top 5 prospects in the Padres system should have been going to Miami.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Also it’s damage control for MIA based on where their record is. They didn’t really help their offense in the off-season and were probably hoping their pitching could carry them and keep them competitive in a tough division.
Injuries/poor results from their pitching is killing them and their offense isn’t good enough to bail them out.
No doubt MIA would take Pablo Lopez back for Arraez straight up but that ship has sailed.
websoulsurfer
Marsee. 45 FV or below average MLB player. That is his ceiling. He would be a 4th OF if he makes it that far. From his performance in his 2nd stint in AA, it looks more like a flame out. Hopefully I am wrong about that because I really like him.
Head is an 80 speed and roughly average contact hitter with a 50 FV that is expected to be an average overall glove first CF in MLB. By no means a bad player to have in your system. Just don’t expect him to ever hit for any power or become a 4+ WAR player. He is not that kind of player. But he may put up seasons of around 2 WAR for most of his career.
Martorella is a hit only 1B/DH type player. His hit and power tools are both 50FV or average MLB ceiling while everything else is far below average. If he continues to hit like he has so far this season in AA, he will end up being a DH somewhere. If he regresses to his minor league averages he will end up as a career minor leaguer.
websoulsurfer
Marlins were asking for exactly that in the offseason, but the Padres were not willing to pay it. Now the Marlins are getting 3 good but not great prospects and paying all of Arraez salary just to ship him out. This increases the depth in the Marlins organization greatly and gives them more trading chips down the road as long as Marsee and Head rebound from poor starts and Martorella keeps up his hot start so far this season. Unless Chisholm is traded, the Marlins won’t see any of these guys in the majors in 2024.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
And….
the Tigers didn’t even try.
I’m developing HDS and CIDS.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Yeah…Batting Champion….
It’s SO boring
Doesn’t even have a bat flip.
outinleftfield
4 with Go. He hasn’t pitched in the majors so he is still a prospect. A 1st round pick and Go is a pretty good return. The other guys are probably why they paid down his contract.
outinleftfield
Not sure why people say Arraez is a poor fielder. The last 3 seasons have all been above average DRS. Would love him at 2B for the Angels. He would be a huge improvement over the guys we have run out there.
outinleftfield
They are also getting Go who could be a very good reliever given some time to adjust to the ball and MLB hitting and training.
Dirkdiggler2398
Was thinking same thing feel like they should of held on to him longer a contending team could lose there 2nd base men for extended time etc anything could happen could of had a bidding war of 4-5 teams for this guy I just have a hard time believing the padres offer would stand as the best one have they would of held on longer closer to deadline
Cubs legend
Man the padres are the ultimate screw it lets gather only infielders
sorengo99
*Mike Elias has entered the chat*
OldSaltUSN
Lol, I can’t recall who it was, probably Jeff @Fangraphs, but he said back about 2017 when Preller was aquiring SS, something like “Preller’s plan was ‘just sign all the shortstops'”.
Looking at the roster, whether it’s by design or just due to Preller’s specifications/interests, it’s really true. It’s an all SS team.
expos_back_by_2025
1B or DH I guess…
Blackpink in the area
Yes that’s where he belongs and the Padres need help there so it makes sense.
petersdylan36
Where is he going to play? Trade Kim? Put Xander back at SS? Or just rotate the DH position between Luis, Kim, Xander, Manny, and Cronenworth
Simm
Th eh will rotate the dh, specially with manny still getting some dh time
ACK
Arraez mainly plays DH/1B. The Padres have no depth and Machado is still recovering from elbow surgery. Usually injuries usually fix these logjam roster issues out. Anything to keep Wade out of the lineup is a win in my book.
BaseballisLife
Arraez plays mainly 2B. 2600 of 4200 innings played in the majors have been at 2B.
The Padres seem likely to play him mostly at DH with Arraez having the positional flexibility to play 2B and 1B to allow other infielders to rest and play DH for a game or two.
Longtimecoming
Shouldn’t be so down on Wade if you have watched the games. He has been in the middle of run scoring for at least 2 games lately that created a W. Played great D and is a spark plug type of offense even with no power.
Is he better as utility than DH – oh yeah. But “keep him out of the lineup” – to far. PH, PR play 3b 1 or 2x / week. Late inning replacement in blow outs for resting starters.
The guy has value in the 25 or 26th spot.
Tiger22matt
Wow what a weak haul for one of the best hitters in the MLB.
Canuckleball
He’s not one of the best hitters in baseball. This year he’s sitting at a 105 ops+. He has no power, steals no bases and provides average to below average defense. His batting average has to be astronomical for him to provide major value.
Tiger22matt
He’s worth more than 4 guys who have no future. He’s a former batting champion. You don’t have to justify getting a player for free just enjoy that you fleeced the Marlins.
Canuckleball
I didn’t fleece anyone and I’m not a Pads or Fish fan.
Batting champ in this day and age is an outmoded notion.
Most GM’s don’t put much stock in that anymore. It’s more about overall production like homeruns and walks.
For what it’s worth, I like high batting average guys,
He’s the best CONTACT hitter, but not the best hitter in general.
Betts, Soto, Ohtani and many others are much better hitters then Arraez has or will ever be.
Brew88
C’mon Tigers. Head has no future?
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Because they know business, not baseball…..
YankeesBleacherCreature
Career 123 OPS+ and .377 OBP through 569 games are pretty good.
BaseballisLife
Arraez has averaged 4.2 WAR the last 3 seasons. That is major value considering that came entirely from hitting.
outinleftfield
BIL, Arraez 4.2 WAr average is not entirely from hitting. He has positive dWAR over the last 3 seasons.
BaseballisLife
Thanks. You are right about that. Mostly the WAR is from hitting with about 2 dWAR over the last 3 seasons total.
websoulsurfer
4 WAR is major value. All Star caliber value. Arraez over the last 3 seasons has averaged 4.2 WAR.
JackStrawb
@Canuckleball Since the start of 2022 Arraez’s line is .333/.381/.439/.820 with a 129 OPS+. That’s a fine hitter with useful pop and a top 15 OBP.
Cherrypicking 12% of his PA from the last 3 seasons is… well… ________t.
gbs42
Batting average is nearly meaningless aside for its contribution to OBP, which is incredibly valuable.
C Yards Jeff
For a guy who gets alot of hits, you’d think he’d be like top 5 or 10 in runs scored but he’s not. Is he a slow runner?
Simm
Not fast and has been on a bad offensive team.
JackStrawb
@C Yards Jeff ? Arraez is 9th in runs scored in the NL.
MarcoPolo
I wonder will Jazz go back to 2nd base now
Awesom-O
Only time I’ve seen him out in center was the series at wrigley. It was windy, but he looked TERRIBLE out there. A move would make sense based off of those three games I watched lol
outinleftfield
Chisholm only has 130 games in CF, but so far he has been terrible. A move back to the infield could not hurt his defense.
desertdawg
Kim to 3rd,Bogaert back to short with Arraez at 2nd. Not a bad infield.
stymeedone
Unless you include defense, then it’s passable. Nothing more.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
If Kim is at 3rd does that mean machado is dh now???
Arraez can play 1st right?
Gwynning
Yes I see more 1B platoon/DH for Arraez than anything
Simm
I think he will play some second and Xander short, Kim 3rd from time to time.
Gwynning
Jake goes to 2nd before Arraez, any day of the week that ends in “y”! Arraez isn’t known for having a great glove…
Deleted Userr
Arraez will be full time DH. Manny, Crone, Bogaerts and Kim are all average or better with the glove. Arraez is not.
Brew88
And Dillon Head is quite a price to pay for 1b platoon. The Pads need slug. This reminds me of the Adam Frazier trade.
Simm
Good point Gwynning
Gwynning
Bush > Head
(In my humble opinion, Brew…)
ACK
@Brew88 – I disagree, Balls die in the OF in Petco at nights. Arraez is a line drive gap hitter just made for Petco.
Brew88
Ok ok I take it all back. I’m good
Deleted Userr
@Gwynning I prefer bald but you do you.
Longtimecoming
Gwynning, that is what we need to happen! I had Marsee, Bush and Head as the “if just 1 of these guys pan out” in my CF leadoff scenario after watching them in ST this year.
Merrill changes that a little though even though I still think he switches back to SS when Kim leaves.
Simm
Merrill is considered an avg at best shortstop. He will stay in center, they can move Xander back if they don’t keep Kim.
websoulsurfer
Bush has struggled in Ft Wayne so far this season and is 3 years older, but I agree that the player profile is very similar between Bush and Head.
websoulsurfer
If Kim leaves. If Kim is hitting .211 and under .700 OPS when the season ends, he picks up his player option for 2025 and is a Padre next year.
Simm
No he won’t no matter how many times you post it.
Rally Goose
@websoulsurfer Mutual option not player option. One way or another it’s getting declined.
Deleted Userr
@Simm and Rally websoulsurfer is Pads Fans! He also said Mark Melancon would exercise his mutual option 3 years ago and thought no one would remember that!
BaseballisLife
You never seem to try to explain your proclamations Simm. Why is that?
Deleted Userr
@BaseballisLife Probably for the same reasons you log onto your burner accounts to “agree” with yourself whenever someone else contests what you are saying (he muted me so he won’t see this, feel free to call him on it Simm).
BaseballisLife
Considering his defense, why would the Padres decline their end no matter how bad his offense is this season? He’s cheap and there is always the possibility of an offensive rebound. There is absolutely no way that they decline his option.
Rally Goose
Because you literally just said no player with an OPS that low has ever gotten that kind of money, regardless of his defense.
BaseballisLife
I did? When?
Rally Goose
Further up this thread from your websoulsurfer account.
“3.7 WAR doesn’t mean much money when its ALL on defense. in fact, can you name a single player that got $8.5 million in FA with an OPS under .700?”
Fernando Ringworm Jr.
When is the last time a mutual option was actually picked up by both sides? Jason Giambi in 2011?
Simm
There is no way the padres will decline his option for 5m even if he has an ops under 700. Which I don’t think he will.
He is an elite defender at a premium defensive position.
I also think he will decline his option and become free agent. The only questions is how much will someone give a glove first shortstop that they hope can provide some offense.
Simm
Legend he has like 3-4 accounts and constantly logs on them to defend or support his comments. It’s pretty pathetic but I trust treat them all as one account so it’s whatever.
SportsFan0000
I had Jackson Merrill for CF way long before the Padres put him there.
BaseballisLife
55FV on defense at shortstop. Above average.
BaseballisLife
Well then you really blew it because that is not my account.
BaseballisLife
That is exactly what I just said Simm. Thanks for reiterating my point. The Padres will pick up their end of the mutual option regardless of how Kim hits this season.
Rally Goose
Then Kim will decline his end of the mutual option regardless of how he hits this season.
outinleftfield
Looks like Arraez has played a couple of games at 2B with Bogaerts at DH. Is that right?
outinleftfield
Kim’s option for 2025 is $11 million with a $2 million buyout. The difference is $9 million. That is the choice that would have to be made by both parties.
Rally Goose
@outinleftfield Nope. $7m with a $2m buyout. The actual dollar figure doesn’t matter though. Only the buyout. The option was only put in there to defer $2m of Kim’s salary to 2025.
Deleted Userr
@Simm and Rally LMAO now he hops onto his “outinleftfield” account 3 days later to again pursue his indulgent “Ha-Seong Kim’s mutual option will be picked up” campaign.
Brew88
Move Merrill to SS, Cron to 2b, Manny on 3b, Kim at 2.5b, Bogey on 1.5, Arraez at 1b/dh, Profar, our AS, in LF, Tatis can cover CF and RF.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
You forgot to move campusano to pitcher and azocar to outfield seats free safety and shildt to umpire
Longtimecoming
Speaking of Azocar – no one gives a young guy love that added 20 lbs of muscle, and is hitting well even if so far and short sample size are in play.
Plays great D in CF or LF.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
That’s A LOT to give up for him. Assuming he DH’s?
Gwynning
You think the Pads paid a lot for 1.5 years of the 2 time reigning Batting Champ? He extends the line-up so much; if he can just keep setting the tables then we’re going to score a lot more runs.
Brew88
I see a continuation of record breaking LOB given the lineup lacks slug, now more than ever.
Simm
They are too 10 in homers. Just have to get manny and Tatis going and this will look great.
Brew88
They need a 45 HR guy
Simm
Yeah those guys are done a dozen… guess they should trade for judge.
Brew88
He’s a 59 HR guy, I just want 45
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Pete Alonso?
BaseballisLife
Olson, Scwarber, and Alonso were the only 45 HR hitters last season. This season there are 3 on pace. 4 if you count Trout, but he is injured.
Longtimecoming
They have a guy capable of it – if he can play the entire season healthy / eligible in RF.
I think a line up filled with a bunch of 28-35 guys is good. Manny, campy, bog, Tatis.
Brew88
Bring me that kid in Seattle, bring him now
padrepapi
How is adding a guy that in 440 career plate appearances with RISP has hit .365/.425/.467 going to hurt them now more then ever with men on?
websoulsurfer
No one in Seattle that is a 45 HR hitter. Raleigh is on pace for 30-31.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Everyone is slumping in Seattle, but if all of their batters are at their max potential, there could be a 45 guy
Raleigh has 40 power, Haniger once hit 39, garver is a 45 guy if he plays 162 games and isn’t slumping, and then the sky is the limit for Rodriguez
Brew’88
@websoul. I see there’s an elephant in our room. Julio Rodriguez at age 22 hit 32 last year and had similar power numbers in age 21 rookie season. He’s off to a slow start this year, but I’d bet my baseball card collection he becomes a 40-something HR guy fairly soon as he continues to develop as a hitter.
websoulsurfer
Brew, still not a proven 40 home run guy and the Padres HAVE a proven 40 HR guy in Tatis.
Sad, Raleigh is on pace for 30-31. Haniger is 33 and has averaged 15 in his career, mostly because of injuries. Garver is also 33 and hasn’t hit even 30 since the juiced ball 2019 season. No one in a Mariners uniform that will even hit 40 let alone 45.
Brew’88
He’s on a trajectory to 40 for sure. As for having Tatis already, well, why not two Tatis’? Julio is on the brink in my opinion. It’s all moot anyway, aren’t any big bats right now – I don’t see any available via trade. Maybe they go after Soto offsesaon baha!
Gwynning
(ahem)
…
Just clearing my throat and cashing this insta-receipt, Brew. Granted, they’re hitting at Coors Light… but the SLG is nice!
Brew88
I’m not particularly superstitious, being a man of science, but the only way it continues Gwynning is that I remain unsatisfied and highly skeptical. Gladly, I am solely responsible for the AZ breakout. Thank me later.
BaseballisLife
Brew, what kid in Seattle?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Brew is hallucinating because the Mariners are not jettisoning anybody who can hit, in fact they will be looking for some hitters themselves. They’re in first place, they are not hoisting any white flag in the immediate future. (And if disaster strikes and they have to blow it up, J-Rod will not be one of the guys moved.) Brew knows these things,he must be trying to wind Mariners fans up just for his own twisted amusement. And I don’t know why he would want to do that, b/c we’re nice guys lol.
Brew’88
of course I’m hallucinating, you should try it sometime. Maybe they can find the ghost of Greg Vaughn….
Brew’88
uh, the one I chatted with websoulsurfer about, just pan up to read
Brew’88
how did the Pads get through AZ without having to face Zac?
JackStrawb
@Ignorant Son-of-a-b Petey’s now a month into his second season of decline. .216/.316/.491 since the beginning of 2023, with an extremely modest 122 OPS+ for a guy who doesn’t bring much to the table beyond HRs. He didn’t even hit 3.0 fWAR in 2023, according to fangraphs, This year is worse.
The Mets might have wanted to strike on the trade market while his slide was less obvious. Alonso might still go nuts for a month or two and end up getting paid by the Rockies, but this is beginning to look like the beginning of the middle of the end.
The Mets deciding to wait and see what he does this year, and being willing to pay the going rate as they did with Nimmo and Diaz, might have saved them more a quarter of a billion dollars, which is what Sportrac thought the Mets should jump to sign him for, get this, NINE years.
JackStrawb
Wow. Didn’t realize JR was having a horrific year. 1/5th of the way through the season, an 88 OPS+ even with a .386 BABIP, and 1 HR, At least $200m on the line?
Something’s going on. He’s been lucky, too, to get to an 88 OPS+.
outinleftfield
I think pretty much everyone thought that eventually Rodriguez would develop into a 40 Hr type of player, but he has really regressed this season. Not sure what is actually wrong, the results just are not there.
outinleftfield
He said Julio Rodriguez.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Not too worried about J-Rod. He figures it out. I wish he wasn’t quite so aggressive with his swings , but according to the coaches you don’t touch that because that’s what makes him special. I think once we get into some more consistent nice weather it should help. Seattle has been unseasonably cool so far this Spring.
Gwynning
I saw an interesting NatGeo that said the unusually cold PNW Spring has been caused by J-Rod’s whiffs.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Gwynny Perhaps I am in an overserious mood tonight but for some reason I am failing to appreciate the nuanced humor in this post of yours. I will look at it again tomorrow with fresh eyes and maybe then I will be able to savor the comic insight, but for now I will pretend I didn’t read such appalling words about our franchise player.
OldSaltUSN
Lol, only diehard, long time Padres fans would be ticked when the Padres trade lower level prospects for a batting champion who can extend the line up, and create more runs.
We’re IMPOSSIBLE to please (’cause we have way too much history of “sure things” going horribly wrong). But hey, this guy could be that chip that makes the lineup take off like a rocket ship (which would be particularly rewarding if Soto’s game died in NY, and he ended the 2024 season hitting under the Medoza line.).
jdgoat
First reaction is that’s a pretty light return for Miami and they went for quantity over quality. Bendix is in way over his head.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
This is extremely light for basically 2 seasons of cheap arraez
I wonder what Peter could get for Chisholm or Jesus
JackStrawb
@jdgoat For a 3 WAR player whose 2025 arb award will be worth 2 of those wins, that gives Arraez a surplus value of about $9m in 2025. Figure for 2024 his surplus value is about $25m given the Marlins are paying most of his salary.
That’s $34m for 4 good, not great prospects.
Since no one was giving up a stud for Arraez, what did people think the Marlins should have gotten for him?
Put another way, they weren’t getting more than this.
Deleted Userr
Holy crud! I take my earlier comment Preller hit this one out of the park.
Brew88
Someone needs to hit it out of the park on this weak hitting team. Unfortunately it won’t happen often with Arraez
Simm
Just watch Tatis and cron do just that.
Brew88
I am watching that right now in AZ, are you saying u called it?
Simm
No I’m
Saying I saw it and posted afterwards
Brew88
Best win of the season sez me
Blackpink in the area
Wow a trade in May! I gotta look over the details I like the concept but not sure about the actual deal.
This one belongs to the Reds
Padres following the Reds example of collecting infielders they don’t need.
Aaron Johnson
You hate to see Woo-Suk Go go
VegasSDfan
Korea, to SD, to the Marlins. Good luck to him
MR. Q
He was struggling during spring training, paying 2 mil for someone who is in triple A is not good outlook so Preller made a great move moving him
BaseballisLife
Go was in AA.
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Preller always has to make the big ticket trade, let’s see if this one is a flop or not
PabloSanchez
Marlins got fleeced
Blackpink in the area
They got the Padres 6th, 9th and 13th best prospect for less than 2 years of Arraez. I like the deal for the Marlins.
Tiger22matt
None of those players are slated to be anything more than bench players at best….
Blackpink in the area
Dillon Head was last years first rounder. He’s got a ways to go he was a high schooler but he projects better than a bench guy that’s really his floor.
Tiger22matt
If you say so. I still think Miami just gave away another player for long shot lottery tickets.
Blackpink in the area
What good is Arraez to the Marlins?
SoCalBrave
@Tiger22matt bench players for most MLB teams are starters for the Fish lol
formerlyz
…I like it for the Marlins, at this point, in terms of not taking any more chances after already waiting wayyyy too long. I’m not necessarily the biggest fan of the volatility of a couple of those guys, but they’re technically assets now, with a lot left to do, and I expected worse.
Arraez has way more value on a better team, as I’ve said since they traded Pablo Lopez for him
Blackpink in the area
The Marlins had a good team last year and arraez was a big reason why.
Head is a good fit with Meyer and White all were high schoolers drafted last year.
formerlyz
The moment Arraez stopped hitting .400, they started losing those close games they were winning. They were volatile; they were essentially the team they were the previous couple of years, but they won the close games they had lost b/c the bullpen was slightly less than abhorrent, and they had a bunch of comeback late game wins…
Your definition of good is different from what they are supposed to be attempting to do; the goal being a World Seroes championship consistent contender, which they’re nowhere near coming close to.
Tacoshells
Holy carne asada! That came outta nowhere !!
websoulsurfer
Robertos for dinner?
stretch123
I like the return for the Marlins. Not like they would be competitive before he became a FA. Hopefully 2 of the 3 hitting prospects work out, at the least.
Tiger22matt
Extremely unlikely.
Blackpink in the area
Even if only 1 guy becomes a big league regular it was worth it. The Marlins window starts in 2026 at the earliest and Arraez was gone by then.
Tiger22matt
If they are 4th OFs that play very little then I don’t see it.
Blackpink in the area
Dillon Head was a first rounder last year and a high schooler. To say he’s a 4th outfielder is ridiculous. That’s his FLOOR that means he will AT LEAST be a 4th outfielder.
jbigz12
Head’s floor is that he flames out in the minor leagues. He’s way too raw to say he’s a guaranteed ML’er.
He can be much more than a 4th OF’er but he’s not a “safe” bet.
Blackpink in the area
His skillset screams at minimum a bench outfielder.
He was a high schooler from last years draft. Of course he’s not a safe bet.
aragon
Don’t worry. Angels collect them and turn them into mediocre infielders.
Sell the team, Arte!
YourDreamGM
Dillon Head is Hudson Head 2.0
padrepapi
Thorpe and Irate have a combined era around 1.00 in 50ish innings pitched in AA… I think both teams are happy with the Cease trade.
I think Dillon Head is a better prospect then he’s mostly getting credit for. He has the upside to develop into an all-star caliber player so I could see him hurting down the road. Marsee and Morterella are good pieces to go to a team like the Marlins as they could both be big leaguers as well in the next year or sooner.
That said, I love adding Arraez to this lineup and definitely happy giving up the pieces they did while holding onto their marquee prospects. Seems like a solid trade for both teams.
Mildred
Big Suk-Goo fan here. Fish fantastics…get ready. Goo is gonna fills the seats
Tacoshells
I’m a big supporter of suk-goo fans.
Deleted Userr
I told y’all that if the Marlins trade Arraez it would be for prospects and prospects only.
Blackpink in the area
As opposed to what?
Deleted Userr
Many Padres fans kept trying to include Ha-Seong Kim in their Arraez-to-Padres trade proposals. Because teams that are rebuilding ALWAYS trade for 1-year rentals coming off career years.
Brew88
You also told us the earth isn’t flat
Deleted Userr
I got the receipts if you are trying to say no one thought the Marlins would want Kim in a Luis Arraez trade.
Brew88
I bore witness too, but I’ve seen better I told u sos than this
User 4204968895
Happy for Arraez and glad I’m not a Marlins fan (are there still any?)…
sampsonite168
Woo Suk Go and give me Dillon Head.
weaselpuppy
Josh Bell trade in 3…2….1…
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Josh Bell is cooked
Moneyballer
Ive read multiple reports that Xander Bogaerts is in this deal. True?
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
No
Gwynning
I see the joke here… we all know you can’t read, Money!
Moneyballer
Rotoballer reported it. They are usually good.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I question how Bogaerts would make sense for the Marlins even if the Padres eat a significant portion of his contract.
AL B DAMNED
I don’t see any math for this to add up to Pablo Lopez!!!
cr4
Wow the marlins got robbed. Head is the only one who has a chance at being a top 100 prospect
Blackpink in the area
I give the Marlins credit for not waiting to make a deal like this. His value will only decrease from here so they did good dealing Arraez now and I think they got a nice package of prospects. So many teams act like they have to wait until July but if you are terrible then why wait?
formerlyz
And that’s what happens when you don’t trade him after the last season, as I was talking about, as this whole thing has played out the way I was saying it would, I’m honestly slightly surprised they managed to not wait even longer, so good for them for being able to at least technically adding organizational pieces, though it obviously would have been better previously.
There are players I would like to finally see get opportunities, though they let go of a few of them already for free, but this has to be their shot or maybe they finally move Jazz back to the IF
The Marlins also have a lot of OF prospects that could have had looks, but there’s a lot there until they move everyone else, as I had said in the beginning of the offseason. There are certain guys I would keep, but it’s slightly less than a handful, same as I said before…keep Eury Perez, Trevor Rogers, Jesus Sanchez, Nick Fortes, and maybe Edward Cabrera, and get rid of everyone else, and unfortunately, it isn’t the offseason where you could have then signed a couple of veterans at certain positions, but at least it’s a direction
Blackpink in the area
Rogers is only under control through 2026 I would trade him as well as Luzardo if he can get healthy. Cabrera is a mess i don’t think that guy ever learns how to throw strikes consistently but who knows. Perez and Alcantara are the only guys I wouldn’t trade.
formerlyz
You hold the guys I mentioned to let them rehab value slightly longer before you trade them…I should have phrased that better thos time, as I have in the past
I said trade everyone last year
Blackpink in the area
Rogers I think is doing a good job rebuilding his value. Luzardo yeah maybe keep him until things are looking better.
formerlyz
Arraez, Jazz, and Luzardo should have been the first ones traded months ago
PadresWSChamps2025
Awesome. BTV changed to subscription only. Anyone subscribed and want to post their valuation of this one on here?
Simm
I think I saw someone post Arraez had like 6 surplus. Pretty sure when I looked at it a couple of months ago head alone was at around 9. So I’d imagine they did pretty good on that site in this trade.
BillTheThrill10
Oof. Dillion Head, Marsee AND Martorella? That stings a little. Go I can live with losing Go, but Dillion Head and Jakob Marsee hurts a little since we have no outfield depth if someone were to get hurt.
PadresWSChamps2025
I, too, can live with losing a 25 y/o reliever who wasn’t good enough to make the team out of camp, has a 4.38 ERA in AAA and is making $2m this year.
Blackpink in the area
Yeah I think Go was a salary dump more than anything.
Datashark
ah they are young right now their stats are not worthy but things may turn for them and this could be a regretful trade. As of right now Padres have a win this year mentality and you want that as an owner because you could be like the Rockies.
Simm
Wade can play the outfield as well. Plus Pauley should learn left field when he goes down. He has played a little there.
Blue Baron
Woo sucks and goes.
99socalfrc
This will be awesome. Dude can certainly setup Machado and Bogaerts for lots of double play balls. Top notch deal.
formerlyz
He can both set them up and cause them himself, a double threat
Datashark
Padres only need to sign a billion dollar deferred paid players and they can be viewed as a division leader.
kreckert
It’s breathtaking how pathetic the Marlins are.
And there’s zero reason to think it’ll ever improve.
Clarence Thomas and the Yankees are Your Daddies
Wow
BannedMarlinsFanBase
One word: Ridiculous!
Absolutely freaking ridiculous!
Blue Baron
They can lose with out without Arraez.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Yeah, but at least before we handed leads to the bullpen to blow. This makes it harder for us to hand leads to the bullpen to blow.
Blackpink in the area
You should be happy. Still don’t have a catcher though…..
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Not sure why I shopuld be happy. This is a ridiculous decision on the part of the Marlins. It’s dumb beyond just the baseball part. This was done about as tonedeaf as a move can be by an organization.
straightuphonestguy
Wow, I thought for sure one of Bergert/Mazur/Snelling or Pauley was headed back to Miami. I love this trade. Head is a solid prospect, and Marsee/Go could contribute this year. Less high on Martorella, but at least he has a clear path now.
Johnny utah
Arraez made a run at .400 last yr & now miami trades him for 3 boring prospects & 1 almost decent
Motor City Beach Bum
Nice get for the Padres. Arraez is a guy I would have liked to see the Tigers deal for. They need people to get on base so their offence can catch up with their pitching. Meadows, Baez, Keith, Tork, Rogers and McKinistry are just not cutting it right now. They lost another one in the 9th tonight because the offence could only score one run. Arraez would be worth the prospect capital.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
There’s a lot of teams in that position right now, their offenses waiting for the weather to warm up.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
One thing that just came to mind. With the return we are getting, why the heck didn’t the Marlins demand that the Padres take Avi’s contract as part of the deal?
Again, one word: ridiclulous!
formerlyz
mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/marlins-exercise-option…
BannedMarlinsFanBase
@formerlyz
To quote an alien from a long time ago: Ouch!
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
CBT reasons probably
BannedMarlinsFanBase
CBT doesn’t affect that because it happens a lot in MLB trades. We did it last year with the Segura for Bell trade when we gave them an extra player. There’s no way the MLBPA can prevent something like that because a team can simply say, if you want Arraez, you must take Avi Garcia and his contract or you can’t have Arraez. A team can’t be then forced to trade away Arraez because the other team refused to take Avi Garcia as part of the deal. Both players salaries are not affected, and neither one has a no-trade clause.
Rsox
Marlins already throwing in the towel. I guess Woo Sucked so much he’s already on the Go…
YanksPhan42
Where are the brain dead Marlins fans I was arguing with pre-season? I said the Yankees should offer Volpe for him and they thought I was on crack. How’s that crack looking now? LOL!!!
You got a gift basket of used Kleenex for him. None of those prospects are anything to get excited for.
formerlyz
Who said that? The Yankees wouldn’t have done that anyway. His value obviously went down nit trading hom back in November, but there was zero universe they were getting Volpe for him
RobM
Speaking of brain dead.
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Not here because none of that ever happened
YanksPhan42
He was garbage. A 22 year old SS and top prospect coming off a GOLD GLOVE and a 20/20 season. LOL!!
I swear the Marlins fans are as clueless as their front office
Lanidrac
At least we can say that he’s a Padres hitter who is not a current or former shortstop, at least not really.
Simm
Well he does have 8 games played at short
Lanidrac
That’s why I typed, “at least not really.” He’s not a real shortstop like the Padres’ other guys.
Deleted Userr
Next up, Trevor Bauer!
Brew88
He’s got slug
Butter Biscuits
Padres easily won this trade just like the Dylan Cease trade
Brew88
The Profar signing was even more brilliant though
PadresWSChamps2025
Best player in both trades is several years out. Going to take years to properly evaluate them.
beersy
The best players in both trades are Cease and Arraez because they are MLB caliber players and should help the Padres compete this year.
PadresWSChamps2025
@beersy I meant best players the Padres gave up but my fault for not specifying.
CardsFan57
I like this move for the Padres. Miami seems to be going full rebuild.
SanDiegoFriarsDude
I’m not sure why everyone hates Miami’s side of this deal. Nobody has really seen what Go truly has performance wise in the MLB and the Fish are also landing two of the best outfield prospects in the game who I was excited to see play in San Diego, (in Head, and Marsee). And that’s only some of the guys offered overall in this trade. Miami is in good hands with this deal, as well. In the long-term plan at least. IMO.
Tiger22matt
Those prospects should be 4th outfielders in 2030. The Padres fleeced the Marlins congratulations.
straightuphonestguy
I don’t hate it, but it’s a lot of near-term spare parts from the Padres perspective. Go I think will be good but he is a FA after 2025. Marsee can probably be a solid 4th OF, but he’s a bit redundant with Merrill in CF. Martorella is behind Pauley who is behind Jake and the long-term 1B/DH situation is spoken for even beyond that.
Brew88
Meaning Manny and Bogey will compete for long term DH, and may play 1b?
straightuphonestguy
Yeah, Manny primarily would be my guess. But I think that’s still a ways off.
User 4223176798
Why is it the Padres and Dodgers keep making trades for All Stars while dipping into their farm system. And the Giants remain on the outside looking in. Again, teams don’t value the Giants prospects. They have not done a good job of drafting and developing players.
sergefunction
No better place than San Diego for a National League Batting Champion who is not a home run threat. It’s in their DNA.
99socalfrc
Will this put the Padres over the tax threshold?
straightuphonestguy
Per the article, they’re currently estimated to be about $4-5M short of the CBT
websoulsurfer
With the Marlins eating all of Arraez salary in 2024 and the Padres also jettisoning the $2.5 million that Go counts toward the CBT, the Padres are gaining CBT room with this trade.
Brew88
I was wondering the same thing. Hard to imagine, after all the pinching, that they would suddenly breach
Longtimecoming
Agree but it is calculated at end of season. Can always dump someone like what we saw last year with the Angels (I think it was).
towinagain
Preller is a stud!!!
Love this move!
SanDiegoFriarsDude
Agreed big guy.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I’m glad you’re in better spirits, tow…may it last b/c your team plays well.
SanDiegoFriarsDude
What does this trade mean for Bogey, and Kim?
straightuphonestguy
This year? Arraez will be prinarily DH and spelling a bit at 1B/2B when they want to squeeze an extra lefty in the lineup. Gives Kim/Bogaerts/Machado/Cronenworth a night off. Could shift the entire infield left while Manny builds up to 3B. Honestly, I’ve been fairly happy with Wade and Rosario in limited production. I’m guessing Pauley is going to get some more seasoning at AAA. Rosario could be next if Solano makes it back to the majors and THAT would be some impressive infield flexibility.
Next year, he could be insurance if they don’t sign Kim. I think they sign Kim and Arraez rides out his mainly DH tenure into FA.
SanDiegoFriarsDude
@ straightuphonestguy: Your response is good and I agree.
Deleted Userr
Nothing
YourDreamGM
B for SD. They didn’t give up anything painful. Head hurts for sure but they got a look at him up close and still parted with him. No power. No pitchers is huge. Not even a ss or catcher. A likely corner outfielder and 1b. For a May trade pretty impressive. I wouldn’t challenge anyone who calls it a A.
D for Miami. Can see a C. I don’t hate it. It’s fair enough. Where’s the pitcher? Where’s the power. Where’s the launch angle? Heads interesting. pretty safe cf bet. Speed. Bat especially power is ?.
Old York
Things are looking good for my predictions that the M’s and Padres will play in the WS this year.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
That was my prediction Old York, don’t be a copycat.
Gwynning
“Our” prediction, you sunuva…
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Ahhhh I feel like a total jacka$$ now Gwynny…I forgot my gratitude and was only thinking about myself. Owe ya a beer, mixed drink; fentanyl patch, whichever your party favor of choice
I Believe We Can Win
Only one I’m gonna miss is Martorella.
Head and Marsee became expendable when Merrill took hold of the CF job.
Plus Preller will do what he’s always done. Restock the farm with guys in the upcoming drafts and IFAs.
Whoever they traded away in the Cease and Arraez deals this season they can replace prospect wise via draft and ifa.
Brew88
And maybe DeVries is their future CF
BaseballisLife
DeVries could stick at SS.
Simm
Yeah there is a good chance he does.
Brew’88
I was somewhat joking about the OF. But he’s 17 still, so we’ll see about where he sticks if/when as a MLBer.
outinleftfield
A high school junior playing full season professional baseball. The 2nd one your team has signed in 2 years. Can the Angels poach some of your scouts? Please?
OldSaltUSN
What this looks like to me is:
a) Arraez is the full time DH (and maybe backup 1B).
b) Kim is now available to trade. For that matter, so is Cronenworth. Kim’s had a slow start, Cronenworth has reverted to the form that got him his $80M contract. Trading either is a potential win, Kim for what comes back (at a reasonable salary), and Cronenworth for salary relief, plus the return (maybe a quality reliever).
c) Go was an acceptable loss, but a loss in depth none-the-less. I think that AJP will aquire more relief pitching in trades to follow.
d) Arraez may be a 1 season rental, and trade bait for the next offseason. His arbitration $$’s will be higher than his probable value to the Padres (i.e. he’s probably not a guy they would extend, on a team with the long term contracts they have), and he will have value as a trade chip.
e) @Brew88: I honestly don’t see Jackson Merrill going anywhere, as long as his hot trajectory continues. He’s proven himself as a plus CF, with the clear chance to become elite, and his bat plays. If he’s moved to SS, is he better defensively than Kim or Bogaerts or Tatis, and who replaces him (other than Tatis, who is a clear win in RF)? He’s solid at CF; just take the win.
Summary: I think there are still a whole lot of teams who will want either Kim or Cronenworth, and one of them will go. I think future trades will bring back relief pitching depth, and maybe a 1B thumper if Cronie is traded.
I don’t know if I like or agree with any of these moves (actual and in theory), but logically, what I said seems to make sense, based on the Padres needs (i.e. salary relief – still, a 1B, relief pitching)), versus their current surplus value(s).
Deleted Userr
Why would you trade for Arraez just to trade him not even 365 days later for less than you gave up to get him that’s a terrible argument!
OldSaltUSN
Umm … I dunno, to win the W.S. in 2024? Should there be another reason? What’s your basis for guaranteeing Arraez would bring back “less than you gave up to get him”? Are you a baseball wizard?
EVERY ballplayer signed has a certain intrinsic value. Arraez can help the team this year. For $16M, other resources may be a better fit next year, particularly if Arraez can bring some of those other resources back in a trade at the end of the season? Certainly, Preller could extend Arraez, but I would think that a move such as extending Merrill, or … who knows who, would be money better spent.
Why the —- are you even asking a question with such an obvious answer? That question is a terrible argument.
Deleted Userr
@OldSaltUSN…
“What’s your basis for guaranteeing Arraez would bring back ‘less than you gave up to get him’? Are you a baseball wizard?”
Gee idk, maybe because one of his potential postseason runs will have evaporated between now and then and the acquiring team would be getting only his Arb 4 year (see; the most expensive one)? Maybe because he’s already a known quantity so him continuing to play well won’t help his trade value because teams already know what they are getting with him? The only reasons to trade for a guy are so you can try and contend while he is under contract or to flip him later on for more (think Drew Pomeranz). We saw what happened with Adam Frazier and Juan Soto. Two of the biggest mistakes of the entire Preller era.
“For $16M, other resources may be a better fit next year”
Then don’t trade for Arraez.
straightuphonestguy
I don’t think Preller will trade Kim or Cronenworth, just not his MO. Both are very inexpensive this year (a huge boon to a team teetering on the CBT cutoff). Preller just does not subtract from the ML roster unless it’s for a clear upgrade. My guess is they’re gonna do the CBT dance to reset it every other year.. even with a Kim extension, Padres would be shedding something like $35-40M fall 2025 if Cease, Arraez, and King all walk.
Plus, Cronenworth is currently the Padres 2nd best hitter and the underlying batted ball data says he should be performing even better. I get the hesitation about paying a good-not-great player $11M when he’s 37, but Jake is 30 and has a lot of room to fall before those numbers become a concern.
OldSaltUSN
I like Cronie – maybe he’s my favoriate player on the team based on the way he plays, i.e. just being a complete ballplayer and team guy. It’s more about roster construction short and long term. I think the $80M contract was a good bet, even though it’s been panned because of his down 2023 season (plus a few other peripherals). I’m not worried about Jake’s contract long term, but the lux tax threshhold MUST be avoided in 2024, to reset it to the baseline, and not just because of the dollars it costs, but more due to the draft picks lost. Maybe AJP and the Padre’s owners aren’t afraid of busting the limit again; their call, just as they are accountable for the results (which neither of US are). Dropping Bogaerts, Machado, Tatis, Musgrove, or Darvish’s contracts ain’t happening, so Cronenworth’s contract plus his redundency in the infield, makes it a viable possibility.
I haven’t given up on Kim, either. I think last year was legit, and Kim will revert to that level, or something close, making him perhaps more valuable as a trade chip.
The team is not yet complete, there are still gaps, thus the sub-.500 team status in early May. Kim and Cronenworth are redundant, and either one can be replaced in house, not necessarily at the same level of offense/defense, but probably pretty close. Meanwhile, they could be part of the solution.
Simm
They aren’t trading Kim or cronenworth as long as they are in it at the deadline. Zero % chance.
Padres would like to reset the tax but going a little over doesn’t really hurt them much given they didn’t sign in QO guys this year.
Padres likely ride to the deadline with this squad and then determine what they shall do at the deadline.
straightuphonestguy
Kim is my favorite player, but I think last year was an aberration. That’s okay, though, as even with a league average bat Kim provides tremendous value with the glove and does well on the bases too. For whatever chemistry is worth, you can tell he’s the heart of the team, so I can’t imagine he leaves unless another team blows the Padres offer out of the water. Definitely I understand the concerns with the Machado/Bogaerts contracts; I absolutely hated the latter signing, but Bogaerts also isn’t this bad. Just having a rough go of things at the plate.
I don’t think the team is so far off.. I am a big believer in this offense, the lineup is very deep. The depth is a bit perilous in the OF and rotation, but I don’t think Joe/King are 5+ ERA guys, they are running unsustainable HR/FB% right now. If anything, I think they need one more high-leverage righty, but Suarez, EDLS, and Estrada are promising. I think Peralta/Matsui is a bit redundant, but also they need at least 3 solid lefties in the pen to counter the Dodgers, so I’m not complaining.
Brew88
Maybe someone has already mentioned this, but other than the Rockies in Colorado, it seems as though the Padres schedule so far has been a steady stream of playoff contenders. This looks to continue through May, and June looks rough too, but the schedule in the later half of the year gets a lot easier. Oddly, if they are at .500 at trade deadline, that could be a great position to be in, and might play into the moves they make then.
straightuphonestguy
Well Blue Jays, Cardinals, and Giants aren’t looking like world beaters (yet). Outside of the Phillies series and some bad bullpen usage in Colorado, I think they’re doing okay.
Deleted Userr
@Simm Going over did hurt them because they got comp picks after the fourth round for Snell and Hader rather than after the 1st.
Simm
That was last year, going over hurt them a lot last year. The only realm possibility of that this year would be from Kim. Who as of now might accept the QO.
Plus I think the padres will try and keep him. So barring that going over a little wouldn’t do much damage. Unless they plan on spending big next year, so who knows.
Deleted Userr
I think the Padres would be OK with Kim accepting the QO. If we believe 1 WAR is worth $9m he only has to put up about 2.2 WAR in 2025 to be worth that on a 1-year deal. And even with his slow start he’s currently on pace to blow past that number. Plus I doubt whether ownership wants to lose him for nothing after passing on a golden opportunity to sell high on him last winter (that Korea series really doomed us on that front).
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Brew88 Not St. Louis. Not Toronto. Just off the top of my head.
Brew88
@sonofab. Yeah ok. But St L and Toronto think they are legit contenders! As do LA, SF, AZ, Phi, Cubbies, Brewers, Cinci, and Pads played them in April. Next up, Cubs, Dodgers, Braves and Yanks.
Simm
Straight- they also finally free themselves of hosmers deal after next season as well.
straightuphonestguy
Yep, forgot to mention. So probably will clear in the neighborhood of $50M.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Is there even a spot for him to play 2nd? I thought Kim played 2nd. And maybe Cronemworth?
OldSaltUSN
Bogaerts plays 2B in 2024, Kim is SS, Cronenwoth is 1B, and 3B will eventually be Machado’s home again (he is arm is almost 100% at this point). All those guys can play any infield postion at a very high level, though Bogaerts has been challenged at 2B which is a new position for him. (Arguably, he’s currently better at SS, his normal position.) In fact, Cronenworth is arguably a much better WAR value at second. So, the preverbial “pattern is full”.
Given Arraez’s defensive liabilities, while joining a very good, defensive team, makes DH the obvious. S.D. does not have a designated DH, it’s currently DH by committee and/or reserved for Machado while getting healthy. He can backup 1B or 2B, but has historically proven a liability there, particualrly as compared to any of the above mentioned Padres infielders.
Additionally, Profar (LF) and rookie Jackson Merrill (CF) are both natural infielders, Profar at 2b, and Merrill at SS. Oh, and so is Tatis (RF). So, bottom line, otther than the pitcher and catcher, EVERY position ballplayer in the Padres line-up is a “Plus” or better, making the thought of using Arraez even as a backup IF, somewhat questionable.
It’ll be interesting to see what (Manager) Shildt decides to do.
Brew’88
To further complicate things, there is the 2B Donovan Solano and $1.5 M decision waiting in the wings
LFGMets (Metsin7) #ConsistentlyBannedBaseballExpert
Preller might be the best GM in the game. He always gets the players that I want. Wether it be Soto, Arraez, Hader, Musgrove, etc. Preller will always go for the big fish no matter what. Thats more than I can say for 99% of the GMs in this league that love to prospect hug (etc. one of the worst in Mike Elias). GMs that just sit around and do nothing are the worst like Elias, especially when their team has a chance to make a big playoff run. Most prospects fail. Just look at when the Mets traded Kelenic for Diaz. Some people said it was going to go down as the worst trade in Mets history next to Ryan and Seaver. Kelenic has done nothing while Diaz has been a top 5 reliever. I’ll always go for the surefire thing over an overated prospect that will soon be an afterthought in this league
Deleted Userr
lol
Simm
Right that burns dude sucks
Deleted Userr
Huh?
Simm
Sarcasm
EM41
Padres trade away prospects in pursuit of continued mediocrity.
Marlins trade away one of their highest paid players to insure they will have one of MLB’s worst offenses.
Sounds like a very familiar trade to me.
Informed Sportsball Discussion
The word here is “ensure”.
You “insure” something by taking out an insurance policy on it.
no soup for you
My guess: Arraez will play 1B, Jake will go back to his natural position at 2B, Xander will go back to SS. Manny will play 3B and HSK will either be traded or play some 3B with Manny at DH.
Simm
Arraez with dh more times than not. Then the will rotate the dh around with Arraez playing some 1b/2b while Xander can play short and Kim can play 3b. They won’t be trading any of these dude as along as they have a chance at making the playoffs.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
SDP could keep HSK the whole year. This would allow the manager to give players days off and give them a physical and mental break plus injuries happen etc. Battle to grab a WC will be fierce I think so this is a good strategy. Once you’re in the postseason anything can happen.
Longtimecoming
Soup – I think that is a valid scenario but not the 1st option. I could see it play out in a few weeks though depending on W/L record; how Jake continues to hit; how bad Kim hits; does Bog return to hitting; how Manny’s arm; what are the behind the scene extension conversations with Kim; is there an injury, etc.
So yes, I think we might see just that but stuff has to happen first over next 4-6 weeks for to happen.
YaGottaBelieveAgain
Prospects true potential is always so hard to judge but I think MIA did well with the players they got back.
Teams with interest with other players should not delay or miss out especially with their pitchers.
ATL, NYY, HOU won’t be shy
SDP is a win now team with players who will be out of their prime production in maybe as little as 3 years. Preller really spent like a drunken sailor and he’s gotta see it through consequences be …
Ghost of HOF Gwynn magic/alchemy experiment at work. Arraez should be energized with his new team. They will probably try to extend him.
This trade should help hasten other activity long before the official trade deadline IMHO. Giddy Up.
Non Roster Invitee
Long article is long.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Good trade for the Marlins had to be done. I wonder if NG was still there would she have been able to do this. I think probably not.
GO1962
I wonder if anyone in Miami or southern Florida cares about the trade, or even noticed?
Devlsh
Weak return, but it’s possible that fans value Arraez’s skillset more than MLB teams. I definitely see the value for the Padres, whose lineup has been patchwork due to financial decisions, but it’s a little sad to watch what’s going on in Miami.
JoeBrady
I didn’t read the entire article, But where does Arraez play? DH?
straightuphonestguy
Should be primarily DH and spelling 1B/2B infrequently. He’s not a better defender than any of the starters.
JoeBrady
That’s what I figured . Arraez is a decent+ hitter, but that’s a pretty package to pay for a DH.
HawkCharger
The entire infield is versatile so, while he benefits the DH spot the most, he also helps the infield, @JoeBrady.
Cronenworth can move to 2B and Arraez can take 1B if Xander needs a day off (or needs to cover SS for Kim’s day off).
Kim can move over to 3B if Manny needs a fielding day off and again you can shift X to the left side with Cron-Arraez on the right side.
This one belongs to the Reds
I was wondering why they would take on that contract in their situation when they didn’t really need him.
Now we know. They got cash, which a great philosopher once said was just as good as money.
Longtimecoming
AND the Padres get some cash back! Liking this even more. When he gets 3 hits tonight, I’ll really love it – and don’t care if they are all singles!
DwayneMurphyFav
Everyone is in love with the long ball BUT if you have someone who can get on base before the long ball to get that extra run it makes all the difference in a 1-2 run game. Love this trade for the Padres
YaGottaBelieveAgain
My sources inside MLB indicate Manfred is looking into crediting ONLY a partial run IF the exit velocity of the hit wasn’t over 95 mph and that player scores.
This is another chance to ‘Improve the Game’ like other recent dopey changes that cheapens the integrity of the game.
More batters striking out. Sounds fun. I hate watching triples. Takes too long. Boo.
Sarcasm – but it sounds like something MLB might implement. Can’t Wait.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Tigers, missing out on Tyler Black, Klemic, Pages, O’Neil, no chance at Carson Williams now and….now this…
Are the Tigers still IN THE HUNT?
deepseamonster32
I’m sorry, I’ve lost count. Is this Rebuild #8? Or are they still on Rebuild #2, dating to 2003-04 off-season?
At least they got Head this time
Persi W
That’s what she said!
CrikesAlready
Soto and Frazier both came to San Diego during the season and sucked massively. Soso blamed a different bed and Frazier just sucked.
It is Adam Frazier, isn’t it? He came from Pittsburgh and later went on to Seattle. I don’t even know if that’s his name or not. It was a wasted trade though.
DwayneMurphyFav
Frazier couldn’t find a base if it was right in front of him. Arrearsz can find 1st and 2nd but now it’s up to Machado and Tatis to help him find the plate
Deleted Userr
Soto didn’t suck massively. Preller just overpaid in prospects and stupidly thought Soto would magically fall in love with the place and sign for half of what the market would have offered.
Brew’88
The Frazier trade was the most pointless trade in MLB history
Deleted Userr
@Brew’88 Galvis trade was more pointless but Frazier trade set the Padres back more.
Brew’88
At least Galvis performed a bit, at times, maybe? I don’t recall who they gave up for him though. But the team was so bad it didn’t matter as much.
I just didn’t see the purpose for punch’n’Judy Frazier at a time when “slug” was most lacking. And then Frazier performed even worse than his career norms, as the team spiraled out of contention. Bad trade.
Deleted Userr
Freddy Galvis for Enyel de los Santos one-for-one. It was pointless because they traded a fairly well regarded (even if possibly overrated) prospect at a position of need for a one-year rental in advance of a season where they were never expected to contend in the first place and lost 96 games even *with* Galvis. And yet another example of Preller thinking trading for a guy will make it easier to sign him (spoiler alert: it didn’t).
Deleted Userr
The Padres trading for Galvis was like if the Oakland A’s had traded for Soto this past offseason.
Brew’88
except that Freddy Galvis isnt a first ballot HOFer. No, I get it, why do anything but rebuild when you’re as bad as the Pads were then….
Deleted Userr
Might not have cost as much in terms of prospect capital as Soto but all Galvis did for the Padres was cost them money and hurt their draft position. And it’s not like they were expected to be better than they were in 2018.
straightuphonestguy
I don’t imagine the cash coming back will be significant, but even $1-2M gives some breathing room for mid-season BP additions while steering clear of the CBT.
Persi W
$8.5 million!!!! That’s some breathing room.
straightuphonestguy
Yep! Cleared another $2M+ moving Go’s contract.
Brew’88
The salary carrot makes this trade so much more uncucumbering and much more appeeling for the Padres. When adressing the trade in the future. Losing Head is tough, but lettuce not forget the cash element as it is romaine to the accoutrement.
Deleted Userr
“Uncucumbering”
Degaz
Man..the Marlins got a whole lot of nothing for Arraez. I guess that’s all you can get for a one tool player.
thefaithfulfriar
Skip Schumacher has to got to be pissed…
DwayneMurphyFav
A one tool player that can help them win the west …or get to the playoffs? Just a question. The Pads seems to missing that guy at the beginning of their lineup who can get on base. I like the trade and it didn’t seem like they gave up a lot
Mrski
I like this gm of the padres. Maybe cashman should call him so he can see how to be a gm.
thefaithfulfriar
Good trade but we really didn’t need to do it. Would rather see the development of the younger dudes that are getting more playing time now. And I think it’s too early moving on from Marsee and Head. Maybe AJ will flip him for another starter…
James Midway
For everyone asking he will be the primary DH as they didn’t have one before
larry48
Where will Arraez play and who will go to the bench. Who going to be off the 40 man roster.
Brew’88
@ Larry. Tough decision with Wade and Solano is coming next
towinagain
Go with Wade.
Simm
Likely Wade stays and Pauley goes down and then Rosario goes down for solano
websoulsurfer
Solano chose to stick with the Padres organization, so the next decision on him is June 1st. He will do just fine in El Paso until then.
Simm
They will move patino to the 69 day so no move is needed.
websoulsurfer
DH.
Pauley or Wade will go back to El Paso.
Patino, who just had TJ surgery, will go to 60-day IL.
HawkCharger
Arraez will get Woo-Suk Go’s 40-man spot. No move necessary.
DwayneMurphyFav
Nice trade for the Fathers …who want to win in the next 5 years. They see the Dodgers rotation won’t help them thru a playoff series and their lineup has some holes 5-9. The D’backs aren’t the team they were last year, the Giants are a .500 and the Rockies…… well they’re the rockies, so why not make a run in the NL West? Arraez gives them someone early 1-2 that can get on base for Machado and Tatis
Mojo37
@Dwayne
Yes Arraez is a good pick up for the Pads. But are you seriously comparing Cease, Darvish & Musgrove to Glasnow, Yamamoto,, & Buehler? Please.
Simm
I’ll take cease over any of them and buehler hasn’t even pitched. Plus the padres have taken care of Yamamoto.
Mojo37
So the Padres are planning to go to the playoffs with one pitcher. And if you think you’ve faced the real Yamamoto think again. As for Buehler see me in October.
Brew’88
Buehler hasn’t pitched since 2022 (and wasn’t very good in the 12 games he started in 2022), so wait and see is definitely in order before claiming his superiority. Glasnow has averaged only 10 starts per season past 5 years. Ceiling or floor? what will it be?
Mojo37
You look back. I’ll look forward. But I agree the proof is in the doing.
Brew’88
I meant 10 starts per year since 2016 with Glasnow, hardly reassuring.
Mojo37
Again…living in the past.
Simm
The best way to project future outcome is by looking back. As you guys will be looking back again this postseason wondering how you failed again.
websoulsurfer
Looking forward what you get to see is a Buehler with greatly diminished velocity and who joins a group of 55 pitchers that have returned after a 2nd TJ to pitch in the majors. Of those, only 2 have had an ERA under 4 over 20 or more starts after returning.
Mojo37
Ok troll. It had to sink to that level. didn’t it? GL to you and your team assuming you actually have one.
Mojo37
for avoidance of doubt, my last was a response to Simm.
Mojo37
@websurfer. Buehler threw at 95 in 2022. In rehab he’s been around 94 and has touched 96. As to 20 or more starts, no way to argue that today. Time will tell.
Brew’88
A reasonable argument for laying a case for superiority has to be based upon something no? Compare the pitchers in MLB over the past 5 years, or over the past 2 years, or even over the past 2 weeks. Go ahead and guess about injury recoveries or avoidance over the rest of the year. But be reasonable, and try to make a strong take. I’m not trying to win this comparision, just conversing with you about it Mojo.
Brew’88
Not sure what you mean by living in the past, unless you’re into Jethro Tull! If the past is to cite injuries in every single one of his 9 career years, then I would think that’s a sound basis of predictability. But let’s hope Glass finally stays healthy this year, Buehler too. If they do that’s an elite rotation.
Mojo37
Brew…
I base my faith in Glasnow and Yamamoto on the past 5-6 weeks/7 starts for each. as for Buehler, I watched every rehab start which is admittedly much less of a valid indicator.
Cease and Glasnow’s performances thus far this season are comparable. Darvish and Musgrove have been up and down during the same period. Yamamoto has been great since his first blowout inning in Korea. The Pads have greatly improved their squad and it might well be a in interesting race. We’ll see.
BaseballisLife
Buehler was throwing 93-94 in his game in Albuquerque. He sat 97 until his first injury in 2021.
Brew’88
I’m not sure Musgrove and Darvish are fully healthy yet, but hey I just wish all the players perfect health and let the stars shine as they may.
And what’s the latest on Miller and May?.
Mojo37
Brew.. A pleasure to have a civil convo with you. Enjoy the games.
Brew88
Likewise Mojo. All in good fun as always
OldSaltUSN
@BaseballisLife
It can take two years for a pitcher after TJ surgery, to return to full strength. I wouldn’t be surprised if Buehler picks up something closer to his previous velocity by the end of the year. Every ball player’s recovery is different.
BaseballisLife
OldSalt, it’s Buehler’s 2nd TJ.
SanDiegoFriarsDude
At this rate. Profar is DEFINITELY going to be an All-Star in 2024, and is better than who he replaced in Left Field, a gentleman by the name of Juan Soto.
Deleted Userr
lol
martras
The Marlins attendance may well be lower than the Athletics this year even with the complete catastrophe which is Oakland.
SanDiegoFriarsDude
Brent Rooker is who is keeping the A’s fans they do have remaining butts in the seats in Oakland. Rooker will also be the team captain overseeing the young recruits as they transition to Las Vegas.
websoulsurfer
Sacramento. The A’s will never make it to LAs Vegas. Fisher will end up selling the team to Vivek Ranadive who will keep them in Sacramento.
Brew’88
@web. I haven’t been following this, but does this have a real possibility and is it because of the public funding outroar in LV?
SanDiegoFriarsDude
If Dillon Head becomes another Jackson Merrill type then Marlins fans will be happy and naysayers will squirm. On another note Donovan Solano is one of the most underrated players in the game. Is he going to be called up soon? I like Wade, but Salano is an undersized, underdog, 5’8 First Baseman with a hot bat his whole career.
Simm
They will send Rosario down for solano
websoulsurfer
Why? Rosario is playing plus defense and has a higher OPS in the majors than Solano does in the hitter friendly PCL.
Simm
Because it’s a small sample size and Wade provides more position flexablity. Plus Rosario would be riding the bench a lot and he needs every day at bats to get better. Solano doesn’t…he is an old vet. Wade can minute outfield in a pinch which the padres are thin in. Plus he can lay a bunt down and pinch run. That’s going to be the job if this bench piece most of the time if everyone is healthy
Brew’88
With Arraez arrival (he won’t just DH) and Manny going back to 3B, and with Solano sitting in PCL, Pauley being sent down is the most obvious 1st outcome. I also think they might part ways with Solano, which would be a curious thing to do given his proven veteran bat. Between Rosario and Wade, the present roster construction with Manny back at 3B favors Wade, a fully-utility guy who’s speed might be the deciding factor. Batten might never again see a chance, and Marcano is on a deserted island.
Hammerin' Hank
Good haul for the one-dimensional Arraez. I’m surprised Preller did this one.
websoulsurfer
HAHA. LOL.. BWAHAHAHA. ROTFLMFAO.
Two-time batting defending champ Arraez for the major league minimum and just 4 AA prospects with none having a FV of more than 50 and you are surprised that Preller made the trade?
Brew88
The only surprising aspect of this trade was that the Marlins, the Marlins!, will pay Arraez salary this year. He’s 3 for 3 for free tonight already. Whoop, this just in. 4 for 4 now
padrepapi
Wow, with the Marlins picking up all of Arraez’s salary except for the league minimum that really tilts this trade to the no brainer territory for the Padres.
Making this trade and actually lowering your payroll is hard to fatham.
fred-3
Teams like the Marlins are why this sport is dying. They’re basically just a money laundering operation at this point.
holecamels35
I don’t understand why teams do these deals with the Padres, literally giving away players. You’d think a team like them who’ve dumped the prospect pool so many times would be hurting but it seems like they always have top prospects still and hold onto most of them in deals. Goes to show if you ask, most teams will trade you guys for some interesting looking prospects who can just be re-filled the next draft or international FA period.
Deleted Userr
Ask that Mariners, Nationals and Guardians how much they like trading with SD.
Simm
While the padres do replenish the farm peolle trade with them because they always and a good farm and are willing to trade it. They don’t always keep their top top guys…as a few went for Soto. Heck the cease trade bolstered the white Sox farm. Both Cleveland and the mariners are wing some of the ones they got.
Preller knows how to do one thing well…find prospects.
Stan Not the Man
This ain’t good for MLB. Where’s Bowie Kuhn?
websoulsurfer
Quogue Cemetery in Suffolk County
YankeesBleacherCreature
Well that’s one way to get better and trim payroll.
Longtimecoming
Shut up!!
Padres get to reduce Go’s salary and Miami is paying all but mlb minimum?
WTF is there not to like about this trade!
HiredGun23
Welcome to the 619, Arraez! Suit up and do your thing…
websoulsurfer
1st chance to see him play in Brown and Gold will be at Wrigley.
HawkCharger
Or … maybe at Chase Field tonight. He’s in the starting lineup and leading off.
thefaithfulfriar
Indeed. Lineup looks pretty good with him leading off…
jp82
Im dumbfounded here……..Bendix must wholeheartedly believe Dillon Head is the second coming of Willie Mays
websoulsurfer
Willie Mays Hays.
Baseball77
Now we know why so many prospects for Arraez.
websoulsurfer
Started driving back to SD this morning thinking how great of a deal the Padres got in the trade, then I get home and get unpacked and find out that the ONLY cost was prospects. The Marlins are eating ALL of Arraez salary, so the Padres still have $12 million to spend while staying under the CBT threshold. A 2-time batting champion basically for free and the flexibility to go after other pieces as the season progresses.
This is a huge win for Preller out of the gate and gives the Padres a great table setter and fills there need at DH with a guy that can also play 2B and 1B.
Not sure what Bendix was thinking.
Chemo850
Agreed with this. As. Marlins fan I was OK with the prospects until I realized the Marlins paid the entire contract. In that case the Marlins should have walked away with Salas. Bendix is probably betting that the three older guys turn into at least serviceable players and Head has a chance at being a superstar with still plenty of years left to grow. I think at least three of these guys will fill the roster to some capacity.
Deleted Userr
Thought you said you lived in Anaheim web????
Simm
That’s one of his other 3 accounts.
Deleted Userr
Padres have really cleared up their 2025 Rule 5 roster crunch since the season started. Merrill and Pauley are in the majors so they can’t be eligible anymore. And then with Marsee and Martorella it is now the Marlins’ problem to worry about. 2026 now becomes their big year for the Rule 5 draft (Lesko, Snelling, Bush Jr, whoever rises between now and then).
Ha-Seong Kim and (if you squint hard enough) Jurickson Profar are the Padres’ only realistic QO candidates this offseason. The following offseason, Dylan Cease will get one, Arraez will if he returns to form and then maybe Robert Suarez and Michael King (again, if you squint hard enough).
SanDiegoFriarsDude
Woo-Suk Go just arrived to the MLB. Why is everyone writing him off (or not mentioning him) as folks forget that Go was also a key piece in the return for Arraez. Miami ownership and management obviously see something in him as did the Padres by signing him to a multi-year deal out of Asia.
Simm
I actually think the padres including him to get rid of his salary even it being as low as it is.
Deleted Userr
One thing I was wrong about was saying that every single player the Marlins acquire will be making the league minimum or less in 2025. Woo-Suk Go disqualifies that. But unlike Kim he actually has potential untapped trade value to build.
baseballteam
Three teams in three years. There’s some other factor.
Deleted Userr
Marlins paying through the nose to acquire him in the first place and then realizing they weren’t going to win jack during his remaining arb years so trading him for guys with more club control.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Marlins have done this countless times. They have also changed people in the front office, so there’s little consistency. They knock on the door of success, then back off
JoeBrady
Where does Arraez bat in the lineup? I can’t see them moving the top 4 guys around. #5?
OldSaltUSN
Anywhere, except maybe clean-up, based upon the other bats available. Mostly likely up top at lead-off, but his make-up could be justified elsewhere. It’s truely a loaded line-up.
Plus, he (according to reports) could justify a platoon against righties, and excels as a pinch hitter. So, even when he’s not starting, he brings a significant amount of punch as a contact hitter.
I’d have said at the beginning of the season, he’d bat lead-off for certain, but Shildt has other options who have excelled at leadoff, Kim, Cronenworth, Profar, Bogaerts, etc. Rookie Merrill Jackson has also been moving his way down the line-up, and a young burner like him still developing his slug, might be a perfect fit at top. It just allows the productive lineup to stretch, any way Shildt desires. Shildt just gained a tremendous amount of additional flexibility with the Padres offense. I’ll be managers around the league envy his situation (well, to some extent – all managers believe in their own guys first).
HawkCharger
He’s leading off tonight.
soxygen
Nice haul for Miami. Interesting price check for the trade market.
Braves/DbacksFan
I’m excited for the Marlins sale. Glad it started early. Hope it continues all up until the deadline.
dvmin98
Somehow Preller got them to take Go and got $8million. LOL. Yes please.
rumors171
Hey San Diego, I’ll send you Masataka Yoshida for Xander Bogaerts and $90M (payable $15M year 2028 thru 2033).
Tito Leibowitz
Finally it’s Arraez con Pollo in San Diego.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Marlins quickly becoming a revolving door for players.