J.D. Davis’ time with the Giants ended in unceremonious fashion when the team placed him on release waivers yesterday. He’ll go unclaimed and become a free agent, at which point his camp will look for other opportunities before Opening Day.
It’s a financially motivated move for the Giants, who bumped Davis from the starting lineup when they signed Matt Chapman. Their incumbent third baseman had previously prevailed in an arbitration hearing and was slated for a $6.9MM salary. Barring a surprising successful grievance on Davis’ behalf, the release means he’ll receive a fraction of that from San Francisco. The collective bargaining agreement provides that arbitration-eligible players released more than 15 days before the start of the season “for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability” are entitled to 30 days termination pay — slightly more than $1.1MM, in Davis’ case.
The most recent CBA introduced a new provision that arb-eligible players who settle without a hearing would be entitled to their full salary in the event they were released before Opening Day. That does not apply to players who go to a hearing — the provision incentivizes players on the fringe of rosters to settle — which makes Davis’ choice to proceed with a hearing consequential in retrospect.
Davis’ agent, Matt Hannaford of ALIGND Sports Management, criticized the team’s process leading up to the exchange of filing figures — implying that the team didn’t leave the player with much choice. “In my 22 years in the business, I’ve never seen a club in arbitration make their one and only offer less than an hour before the exchange deadline that ended up hundreds of thousands of dollars below their filing number,” Hannaford told reporters (link via John Shea and Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle).
“The way the Giants negotiated gave J.D. no choice but to go to a hearing, which he did, and which we won. It’s unfortunate the club has handled things the way they have, but I’m confident in the player J.D. is and the value he will bring to his next team. I know he will end up in a better situation when all is said and done.”
The Giants’ official filing figure was $6.55MM. In response to Hannaford’s comments, president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi told Andrew Baggarly of the Athletic and other reporters the team first offered “just slightly under $6.4MM.” Zaidi indicated the Giants did not consider that the team’s best and final offer and said that Davis’ camp replied that the number for a settlement “has to start with a 7.” Zaidi did not address the timing of the team’s offer but said ALIGND’s response came roughly 10 minutes before the time when teams and players are required to submit filing figures.
“They then filed at 6.9, and several hours after the deadline, called looking to engage in a settlement,” Zaidi said of Davis’ camp. “We said that out of fairness to our other negotiations and to maintain credibility with our policy going forward, we were not in a position to negotiate once the exchange deadline had passed.”
Nothing in the rules precludes teams and players from continuing to negotiate a settlement beyond the filing deadline. However, as a matter of policy, virtually every team declines to discuss one-year arbitration terms after the exchange date. Clubs view this as a way to deter players from anchoring future negotiations by submitting a filing figure that is higher than what they might expect to win at a hearing. (Teams sometimes get around their own “file-and-trial” policies by discussing multi-year deals, but that’s not always the case.)
Whether there was room for further negotiation before the filing exchange date, Zaidi didn’t deny Hannaford’s assertion that the team’s lone official offer was indeed below the rate at which they eventually filed. That makes it easy to understand why Davis declined that proposal.
One can debate whether his camp should have been more motivated to settle based on the possibility that the Giants may look to get out of the contract in Spring Training, but that’s far easier to say with the benefit of hindsight. While San Francisco had clearly viewed Chapman as a target all winter, they didn’t land him until well into Spring Training. The signing of Jorge Soler to a three-year deal to serve as designated hitter, blocking another path to playing time for Davis, also occurred after the filing exchange.
In any case, the chain of events seems likely to cost Davis some money. All 29 other teams passed on the opportunity to take his $6.9MM salary off outright waivers over the weekend. Zaidi said the Giants unsuccessfully looked for a trade partner between signing Chapman and cutting Davis loose. Hannaford tells Shea and Slusser that he’s hopeful that Davis will sign fairly quickly, but it’s not likely that he’ll make up the nearly $5.8MM difference at this stage of the offseason.
It’s possible his camp and the MLB Players Association will consider a grievance in an attempt to recoup some of that money, essentially arguing that Davis hadn’t failed to demonstrate sufficient skill. There’s no recent precedent for a successful grievance of that ilk, however. Davis’ release was not tied to a work-related injury, which would have been the basis for retaining his full salary.
Cases like this are rare, but it’s possible the Davis saga becomes a point of contention in the next round of CBA negotiations. Giants outfielder Austin Slater, a member of the MLBPA executive subcommittee, tells Shea and Slusser that fully guaranteeing arbitration salaries was a goal of the union’s the last time around.
“That was something we fought for, and we got. However, the league wasn’t willing to guarantee it if you went to a hearing. That remained the same. It was technically a win. Obviously, this is a very odd situation. And so there’s maybe more light brought onto it than previous years,” Slater told the Chronicle. “You never want to see something like that happen, but if there was a bright side out of it, it’s that guys are engaged and noticed that’s something that shouldn’t happen from a players’ union standpoint. Obviously, we love to have Chappy here. We’re thinking of J.D. as a person.“
not a very good look for SFG, using loopholes to rob one of your better hitters from last year of his rightly won money… especially when considering they’re having a tough time getting people to come to San Fran in the first place.
who it isn’t a good look for is Davis’s agent. ever since the winter meetings the giants were tied to Chapman and if you do the math there is no room for Davis on the roster if Chapman signed. The agent should have pushed for the guaranteed money rather than expose his client to this situation, especially considering the fact that this was the final year of Davis’s control and guaranteeing the contract would likely put the giants in a position where rather than Davis, if they still wanted to sign Chapman it would put pressure on moving another player like flores or slater and shifting guys around after no interest was shown in the trade market for davis.
I agree the agent should fully have been aware of this capability by the front office and protected his client. Failing to understand the rules of a labor agreement which you are representing players for is a huge miss by the agent. But I also don’t see why anyone isn’t being accusatory that the UNION itself has failed its players and allowed this to happen, the MLBPA and players along with it agreed to these terms. JD cost the giants nothing in acquisition and is the worst fit on the roster after acquiring Chapman who was speculated most of the season. Farhan, the giants, the dodgers, everyone circumventing new rules in the CBA yet the giants are to blame? We really like JD in sf as he’s a local NorCal kid from very close to my home, but he was offered 6.4 million guaranteed dollars which his agent and him refused, then went to a hearing for non guaranteed money. I agree it stinks but the players agreed to this, if JD files a grievance and if legit I would hope he would win. But I don’t see how that grievance should be with a team who made good faith offers and would have eaten the 6 million owed had he accepted it prior to arb hearing. They basically lucked out of paying him , just like the dodgers lucked into signing ohtani and Yamamoto with minimal impact to their payroll numbers. The Giants and dodgers did not create this system that everyone is complaining about unfair treatment, this industry has 30 teams and hundreds of unionized players who bargain for their rights. Let’s be honest this is a huge miss on the players and union part, because they let the file and trial and clearly the effectiveness of arb hearing get thrown out with this new cba.
The first offer from the giants being at the last hour is the most telling piece of information here imo.
@ 5TUNT1N Well said,well written. I appreciate he blend of slight bias and reasonable analysis. but i do differ with you on a few points: as for the MLBPA being to blame, I think we need to recognize that the current rules actually represent a significant upgrade for the players. Prior to this last CBA, .NO arbitration contracts were guaranteed,. We can’t blame the union for failing to foresee this bizarre, unprecedented free agent off season. Free agents like Matt Chapman are normally typically long gone by the time arbitration hearings have ended. Or, if they are still holding out, its because doing so nets them more money, not less.
I also disagree with your characterization of the Giants as “a team who made good faith offers” : There are two months between the time the teams decide on who to tender and non-tender, and the arbitration filing deadline. According to Davis’ agent, the club made “their one and only offer less than an hour before the exchange deadline that ended up hundreds of thousands of dollars below their filing number,” Its a great tactic if you view this as an adversarial process. But it is in no way a good faith offer.
If you read both sides the agent rejected it and didn’t counter offer or allow the giants to counter offer so it isn’t like the giants were trying to just shove him in – and the difference apparently in negotiations and the hearing were further apart since JDD was asking for at least 7mm which was dialed down because if he went to arb with that number it would have been thrown out for sure
I don’t think that makes sense honestly- if the giants made an offer of 6.4 and then came up to 6.55 and the agent rejected both of them – how was that done at the last minute? also both of those were rejected without a counter offer so strategically it seems like the agent thought that the way to get the number they wanted was to reject and go to arb since they didn’t come back with a counteroffer and complained that the giants wouldn’t negotiate after the deadline
As a fan you and I wanted that season to start on time. There were a few contentious issues that would have dragged it out forever. Both sides did the right thing, mate,and you’re griping.
Everyone should be by the phone at deadlines, and willing to work. Anyone in business knows that an hour can be like an eternity. The agent didn’t reply for 50 minutes and came back with something flippant: “the number had to start with 7”. No one is going to take you very seriously if you don’t engage seriously.
And also, lower than the arb number they submitted.
Not unusual according to Samson. He tells me verbal back and forth regarding player comparisons would have been ongoing well prior to the formal offer.
@bag o ballz You’ve got some of the facts wrong, though: The agent did not reject the $6.55. He rejected the $6.4M, which was offered only an hour before the deadline. The agent then went back to the Giants with a loose, and admittedly too unspecified request for at least $7M. If you want to criticize the ambiguity, the timing, or the amount of the of that counteroffer, you can. But it was a counteroffer.
The Giants then filed papers at $6.55. But they’re “file and trial” policy”, did not allow for the agent to counteroffer after that point. He tried, and the Giants refused.
And let’s not ignore the fact that the arbiters did agree on the $6.9 number for Davis. So was the agent so off base in refusing $6.4?
Excellent analysis. I didn’t understand the nuances of the CBA, but the player and agent should have. In an effort to get an extra 500k, Davis is out probably 3M.
Well, we don’t know if he is out anything yet. I don’t see how the Giants can defend the idea that he failed to demonstrate sufficient skill for a $6.9 million contract. He’s a legitimate major leaguer. And even if they did, he will have signed a new contract with another team by then. For how much? Time will tell.
“Not a very good look for SFG, using loopholes”…Using the terms of a collectively bargained CBA is not a “loophole” my friend. The player’s Union could do better for guys like JD, but the MLBPA has usually ignored the average players in favor of the highly paid Max Scherzers & Justin Verlanders of MLB. I Wish you phonies backed ordinary, common people this same way, but you only care about the rights of million dollar celebs & million dolar celebrity athletes, right Cubs?
nah, he has money hes fine. Im just commenting that from the eyes of players, SFG is much less of a appealing spot.
@cub Funny, you say SF is much less of an appealing spot while their signing of free agents Soler and Chapman was what made Davis expendable.
CubsWin108, Did the Cubs’ treatment of Kris Bryant make Chicago a less appealing spot?
That’s short sighted take. The reason the players association care “more” about Verlander and Scherzer is those record contracts create new benchmarks that have a trickle down effect for overall salaries.
It’s just like building a team, raise the ceiling and raise the floor, the players association raised the floor, increasing the league minimum and fight to allow the ceiling to continue to be raised. That way you have a higher starting point when you hit arbitration and a higher over all percentage of money to base raises off of.
When players take short term contracts with high AAVs, it’s a huge win for them. It raises qualifying offers, arbitration raises, increases the league average salary for players.
“Loophole”…when Othani takes 2 mill a year and defers $700 mill
Cubs – I don’t have a dog in this fight but reality is that JD could have accepted SF’s amount and avoided arbitration and be locked in right now.
The rules are what they are and both sides know what they are dealing with on the risk / rewards scale.
How is this a loophole? In the collective bargaining agreement there is a clause that makes all arb contracts non-guarenteed. The players association knew this clause was there. It isn’t a loophole if the rules specifically state that meatiated arbitration contracts are not guaranteed. I totally agree this is a bad look, and leaves a bad taste in a lot of mouths, but it is most definitely not a loophole.
Almost no one is mentioning JD is now a free agent and able to sign with whomever he wants and not just a 1 year deal.
Players usually wait 6+ years for that right, he got it a year early.
The market will speak to his value now. He’s only 30 years old and a solid MLB player, he should be able to sign a good multi year deal.
BUT, can’t help but think there was some animus here on the Giants part. It’s not well known but JD made some very disparaging comments on Twitter about SFG back in 2012; yes, he’s from nearby Elk Grove but he’s not a lifelong Giant fan, far from it. We also don’t know any behind the scenes stuff between player and team, like what SFG said during the arb process. One issue could have been JD playing hurt from June 2023 onward and not telling the team; his numbers nose-dived from then until September, coinciding with the steady decline of the team overall. Also, the Mets basically gave JD away and appeared to get fleeced in that trade; could be JD isn’t the best clubhouse presence.
There’s a lot more to this story and we’re just at the beginning. It’s going to get real messy, soon.
“There’s a lot more to this story and we’re just at the beginning. It’s going to get real messy, soon.”
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yup, some team will give him 3/12M, but at least he has security and 3 more years towards 10 year service time.
Hey. There are good people on both sides
Agreed. It’s a bad look for an organization already struggling with perception issues. Players don’t want to play in SF because of perceived problems with a collapsing economy downtown and safety issues. Add to that the fact the Giants don’t look like a team dedicated to making a playoff run, and now top it off with bad faith negotiations tactics.
The last thing the Giants needed were more reasons not to want to play there.
It’s a big factor in MLB player recruitment, and a big factor for regular people, too.
If you get offered a job by a company you really like and believe in, and you get the same or almost the same offer from a company you’re not really a fan of, which do you choose?
Yea this is not going to help with future recruiting efforts, more players will avoid playing for the Giants.
Really?
Because the Giants spent the 2nd most money this off-season behind LAD.
So if they continue their spending ways and other teams don’t then players will sign with SF or go to Snellzilla purgatory.
Technically, the Giants don’t appear to have done anything against the rules. But somehow this still doesn’t pass the smell test.
I’m very happy with the way things smell as a fan of the giants, we have extra resources to use for a useful roster addition opposed to a redundant one. Nothing bad against JD, I hope he gets some of his money back from the MLBPA for creating this scenario.
@5TUNT1N – This was a net negative to the Giants as moves like this cause a team to be viewed as a 3rd rate organization who will have to overpay to get talent in the long run.
The Giant’s owner smells and it permeates everything. Worse than the street people.
In regards to Johnson no disagreement, it’s kind of funny he owns a team in one of the most liberal spaces in the country. But id rather have him than fisher!
I feel bad for JD. He’s probably not getting more than the $6.3mm the Giants offered prior to the arb deadline. I actually don’t think this looks bad on the Giants, this looks bad on his agent.
As an agent you should be playing 4D chess. You need to read the market. Giants were after Chapman, trade and FA market is weird this offseason. Also knowing that Arbitration salaries are non-guaranteed, why play around with $500k for the chance to lose millions? Lock in the guaranteed salary and figure it out next year when you’re a FA.
This is purely on the agent, unless JD was the one demanding the near $7m salary. Giants just being strategic like any other team would be. If they knew they had a chance at Chapman, why would they give a player-friendly deal to JD? Agent messed up, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets fired.
hes getting like 1,1m, which sucks
1 million for some spring training, the opportunity to sign another contract with another team. Or take that money and spend some time with the family. There’s a lot worse options in this world that people have to make.
“I feel bad for JD”…Oh, poor little JD he’s only getting 1 MILLION+, instead of 6.9M, for a couple of weeks spring training “work” and now he’ll have to buy a smaller yacht and settle for two houses instead of 3. I wish you phonies “felt bad” for the real working people of America living paycheck to paycheck and not just the celebrities and celebrity athletes you’re always fawning over.
You sound broke.
Umm, taking this to the next logical step, why feel sorry for American workers when workers in India and Bangladesh have it far worse than us?
@joeBrady
Because Americans only care about themselves.
Settle down commie. Davis will be just fine.
You clearly haven’t seen my compassion for broke Americans on the Hard Working Stiff Trade Rumors site! Dude, Jimmy in Ypsalanti is getting screwed!
Lol, that’s funny!
You nailed it! Save sympathy for people who truly need it, not spoiled entitled multimillionaire 30yr olds who play a kid’s game for a living. He should be thankful he has this skill and life, not bitter and whiny.
He’s earned $10,181,520 before this year and he’s owed another million. Why feel bad for the guy?
@tellit
It’s not as though sympathy is a finite resource, or that it must be applied equally to all situations.
As baseball fans, we enjoy the game BECAUSE it’s a kid’s game, but we all know that baseball is a business. It is nice to not think about the business side of things, so such an egregious example is jarring to say the least. And for JD, being used as the example sucks, regardless of the money. It’s a pretty ugly situation, and okay to feel bad for JD as a person even though he’ll probably walk away just find (possibly even better).
Yeah I mean basically he could have taken over half what he has made in his career as a guarantee but instead decided to turn it down and risk it- you can’t feel bad for that when he loses it
With all the attention Davis has gotten lately – this article, the 10 or so questions about him in Sunday’s chat – you’d think he was the second coming of Brooks Robinson
It’s a unique situation. It doesn’t have much to do with Davis personally.
If he were, the Giants wouldn’t need to sign Chapman.
I don’t know that I would characterize a successful grievance filing as surprising in this case.
Davis did nothing to demonstrate a decline in skills since winning his arbitration case, and it’s 99.99% certain that Davis wasn’t dogging it at Giants camp with no-effort practice/play.
What would the Giants’ defense be, other than they just decided they wanted someone else?
The fact that other teams didn’t acquire his contract doesn’t count—it is easy to establish that mitigating circumstances, including the timing (when many teams’ budgets are already set/expended) and the known opportunism of teams seeking bargains on players in such precarious situations.
this seems like it should be a pretty great case to make on behalf of Davis, should they file a grievance
It will be interesting to see how this one is decided. “for failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability” is so broad. What is that performance relative to? That could be interpreted many different ways. Is it relative to a player’s prior performance? League average? Or to the club’s other internal options?
Hopefully it all works out for JD in the end.
Literally every other team had a chance to add him at his current price and they all said no. Seems pretty likely the Giants could show that as reasoning to not pay him.
@CCooper8920 The Giants could’ve have simply chosen to non-tender and release Davis before the deadline if that was their rationale.
He was offered 6.5 his agent countered with “must be 7+” never filed a formal counter offer, advised going to arbitration over 350K and cost his client his job. It’s cut and dry just horrendous lawyering. The whole skill part of the language could be summed up as “chapman is much better than Davis and we have chapman now” plus Davis is a man without a spot in a team where it was widely known they were way in on chapman all along so frankly to me this would’ve been a huge “TAKE THE OFFER” sign and they foolishly ignored it. He was being offered over 94% of what they filed for in arb it’s just insane to me.
That they just didn’t want him is literally all they need to say. It is the team’s opinion, no one else, that article 7.2.b is reflecting. An opinion can change from November when contracts are tendered until Opening Day, and the team gets to terminate a contract based solely on that view changing. Sadly, it is not guaranteed and the CBA is clear on the termination pay. If teams could not terminate a player without objectively proving a loss of skill, it would make roster moves impossible.
Is there a verifiable standard of showing a lack of sufficient skill?
Absolutely not…
Name any standard where he showed a lack of sufficient skill. Just name one.
If you’re just talking in general, then you agree with me. If you’re “challenging” me, then you misinterpreted what I wrote.
You said there is no standard and that is true.
Now name one scenario where he didn’t show a lack of sufficient skill. By any standard name one.
Dude, I AGREE WITH YOU…
Now quit trying argue with people just for the sake of arguing. What are you, a teenager?
He showed lack of skill in choosing an agent, and negotiating a contract.
“Name any standard where he showed”..There is no universal standard of “sufficient skill”. “Sufficient skill” is an opinion and the only opinion that matters is the team’s, just like in all other trade, waiver or release transactions.
The second half of his latest season….
positively_broad_st
Is there a verifiable standard of showing a lack of sufficient skill?
==========================
Actually, there is. My very first exhibition would be the SFG offer of $6.5M as proof that Davis is indeed worth $6.5M.
Your turn to prove that Davis is not worth the $6.5M that you just offered him.
Joe, that’s not how it works and you (should) know it. A team could say that about any player just to save money. If a team doesn’t want to pay an arb guy, they can non-tender him in the fall.
Is today Contrarian Day?
They didn’t non tender him. They chose to tender him a contract and now in mid March after teams have already built their rosters they release him and say figure it out. That’s not cool.
Dude, you need to take a break. I said I agree with you and I still do. At this point, I don’t know what else to say to you…
Exactly Joe. How could the Giants argue they didn’t think he was worth at least the amount they offered him in arbitration. If they didn’t think he was worth at least that they could have simply chose not to offer it.
Joe – if receiving a contract offer from the team was the standard for proving they have sufficient skill and competitive ability.. who could this rule possibly apply to? Every single player going to an arbitration hearing has received an offer from their team.
Some players are not offered arbitration and never go to a hearing. Probably the ones without sufficient skills……
Black – essentially what you are saying is that every single player offered arbitration must have sufficient skills.. so the intent of this rule is that it could not apply to anyone, ever.
I’m really curious to see how this works out but I’m not sure that’s how I would argue this one, if I were JD’s team.
CK I don’t think they intended on teams offering players arbitration and agreeing to a contract only to see the team let them go in March during spring training. That’s not fair to the player and that is the point here let’s not forget that. Many of the people defending this are Giants fans because it’s a post about the Giants let’s not forget that either.
Let me just jump in here for one sec boys. Does the word maroon mean anything to you? MLBTR commentators! Ahahaha!
None of your comments are the least bit funny nor are they interesting. Stick to what you’re good at, this clearly isn’t it.
Well said JB. Moreover, in 15 at bats, the spring, JD was hitting .400, with an On base percentage of .471 and a slugging percentage of .550. His OPS was 1,271. ALL of these metrics are significantly above average. Yes, a small sample size. That said, if the arbiter combines the point you make (Farhan offered him $6.5 m just recently) and his performance this Spring exceeded his prior level, how do Giants make the argument JD has “failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability”.
At the very least, this is a bad look for Giants.
The logical conclusion here is that Giants have signed a player who they believe has superior talent for a significantly larger sum of money and believe JD and his salary are redundant. They want to escape from JD. I would not be surprised to see an arbiter rule in JD’s favor.
Far from perfect on the Giants part but it falls on Davis’s agent to know these things. Giants were linked to Chapman all offseason (long before the arbitration hearing) maybe should have considered taking the $6.4M guaranteed instead of pushing for an extra $500K. I hope Davis goes somewhere he’ll have a more clear path to playing time
They lowballed Davis and went to arbitration knowing they were going after Chapman. They would only keep him as a fallback in case they couldn’t sign Chapman.
“Lowballed” – really, he was slated for 6.9 and they offered 6.55?
Is “lowballed” the best term you got for that or did you not read the article?
It’s 94.9% of what he got.
They implement something called “file and trial” like a lot of other MLB clubs. They use it as a way to tamp down overall arbitration numbers for players. Look it up on YouTube you’ll find some really well made informational videos that explain the financial benefit in doing so. The giants are no different in this situation they’ve knowingly implemented this strategy like said with many other clubs and it benefits their bottom line.
File and trial is used to beat down players. That part is right. It creates a negative perception of the front office and makes that front office less trustworthy and a less favorable destination for players in the future.
@RayKing I don’t think you know what “lowball” means.
The blame here ultimately lies with the players association for agreeing to this during the collective bargaining. Either they were not smart enough to see this and did not know to prevent it, or they did know about it, and chose to allow it. While it is a bad look for the Giants, they did operate within the rules. Is a GM at fault for operating within the rules, or is it the players fault for agreeing to them being the rules?
There’s no precedent for this because the rules recently changed. That’s why. He will file a grievance and he will win.
You’re still tripping.
Won’t file nothing & will be signed with another team by end of the week.
A lot of teams can use him but cannot accomodate his salary at this point. They will wait till grievance result is handed down.
He has no salary right now.
He’s a free agent.
I’m convinced this guy is JD’s agent posting into the void and punching his pillow.
I am convinced you are a homer Giants fan who can’t see the forest through the trees. Dan Uggla is my boy but you are kind of a goofball.
I’m so sorry for your loss man I hope they kick in a couple hundred grand as a measure to save face.
Is there some reason why this is a story, when this happens every year and it’s been this way for years? I really dont get it
Because the new CBA made the distinction between having the Arbitration Hearing [NOT guaranteed] and coming to agreement with the club on salary without the hearing [Guaranteed]..
This happens every year? When was the last time? I am curious to see past cases where players went to arbitration and then were released before opening day.
Only other example i saw was Brian Hunter with the Mariners i think back in 2000
JD will find another job. He has been a positive offensive player through most of his career and decent defense He also has a 13SO/9 as a pitcher … over just a few innings.
Mariners could use him.
Zaidi being a dirty dog.
Have you considered that if nothing had happened–not put on waivers, not waived–he’d still an unnecessary player on the Giants. He’d be essentially a Dead Man Walking. On the team but waiting to hear he was traded. Zaidi did this now so he had time to find his own team. Had Zaidi done this a week 2 weeks later, hed still lose the salary BUT would have way less time than he has now. So your dirty Farhan comment is actually opposite. Zaidi did him a favor. ALSO, Davis said signing Chapman “surprised” him. Funny, it was the worst kept secret in baseball. Everyone knew he was coming. Especially Davis. So everyone keeps finding reasons to bash Zaidi. He’s had a solid off-season and this OBVIOUSLY is on Davis and his agent.
@Claude I agree. Also, Giants had to keep Davis around until they signed Soler and Chapman. They couldn’t trade Davis with that salary attached. So they released him as early as they could, the odd man out.
Giving Davis an hour to exchange figures factored into my comment. Not taking anything away from a good off-season.
Zaidi being smart and shedding salary for a player he no longer needs. You want guaranteed money? Sign a guaranteed contract.
Works both ways I guess…. Who wouldn’t mind a million dollars for doing nothing. On another note, does his agent represent anyone else/noteworthy?
I must be missing something. An hour or so before filing arb #’s SF offers $6.4MM. That gives JD 2 choices 1) accept $6.4 MM fully guaranteed or 2) go to arbitration where he can make an additional $500k ( his filing number) but not guaranteed. He chose wrong. Smart business move by SF, bad gamble by JD. Why all the fuss?
I agree riffraff, actually the Giants official offer was 6.55mil, so JD and Hannaford blew off 6.55mil guaranteed to make an extra 350k. It royally bit them in the butt. I’d say it was the player and agent who blew it on this one.
riff, it’s all part of the relentless hatred of Zaidi by many Giants “fans”. Thankfully, they’re not in the majority.
@claude
“Thankfully, they’re not in the majority”
Thank you for saying this as a reminder, because it sure feels like they are the majority at times. All of the relentless whining and complaining, doubled down by the horrendous logic (they should’ve signed Aaron Judge, Zaidi treated Correa terribly, etc.). I feel like I have more in common with civil Dodgers fans than what feels like “most” Giants fans at this point.
I’m guessing JD and agent didn’t really think Matt Chapman was a viable threat and that JD had 3B locked down when they went to arbitration.
The whole offseason, it’s seemed like the Giants had all these holes to fill, particularly in the rotation, and that they would be content at 3B, where they had a serviceable player.
Signing Soler and Chapman really squeezed JD out, and his bet on himself seems to have backfired.
Still, the optics of it suck, and JD might well be granted the total sum, as I still have no idea how SF will prove “failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability”.
His ability isn’t sufficient enough to supplant flores at 1B soler at DH or chapman at 3B and he’s laughably horrible in the outfield. I think the cake is baked man. His agent fumbled on the 1 yard line and it’s cost Davis hugely.
It feels like hit piece, after hit piece on the Giants. Do we need three articles about JD Davis, an article about Martinez not wanting to be a Giant, an article about how players don’t like SF, ect; we get it MLB Trade Rumors, you hate SF.
Well said….
Dude. Don’t be like a Padre fan. News is news. It’s ok.
fop, you’re a stand up guy! I like and appreciate your comments here.
Warm fuzzy feelings !
Thank you. Much appreciated.
They somehow managed to get Lee Soler and Chapman despite MLBTR running a few legitimate news articles. It’s almost as if guys just want to play where they have a shot to win or make the most money.
Have you considered that maybe MLBTR doesn’t hate the Giants, but… hate people named JD???
But in all seriousness, both of those stories were very interesting! JD Davis’s situation, while ugly, shows an unprecedented side of baseball that opens up conversations about how players should be handled. And it is interesting to learn more about why a player chose not to sign with a particular team. In JD Martinez’s situation, it was a little muddy since at first it was location-related but then money-related, but it provided context to the offseason.
Hey, GM
There are about 1200 players, and a bunch of player agents watching.
It will become harder and harder for the Giants to obtain quality free agents until Zaidi is gone.
No it won’t. Most players go to the team offering them the most money. That’s how teams get free agent players. It’s not because the front office is filled with nice guys.
J.D. won’t be a free agent for long.
Giants would be better off with Davis
Giants did nothing wrong here….they have to do what’s best for their team.
Davis’ agent is totally at fault…has no business being an agent if he doesn’t know the rules….Giants made it very clear a long time ago that they would try to sign Chapman,….agent should have seen the writing on the wall, but totally blew it…he should have advised JD that this could happen….if Davis doesn’t get signed and doesn’t play in 2024, he will still get over a million dollars for doing absolutely nothing
Slater is all over it. “JD is a good human and we feel for him…….but Chappy is better at baseball”
I loved seeing how logical his response was, always have respected slater as a player and human. Also just as a side note Slater is the Giants player representative for the union which makes those words even more valuable in my eyes.
Agreed. Smart human. Good human.
This is on the agent, 100%.
Of course it is. The man is in damage control mode. Either he wasn’t across the CBA rules, or he wasn’t across how tenuous JDs roster spot was in the Giants plans going forward. Both are unacceptable situations.
It’s a done deal, I think what the Giants need to work on how they deal with things regardless of whose at fault. True or not they need to get away from the talk that no one wants to play there.
Well this ordeal certainly didn’t help.
The concept that players don’t want to play here defies logic. It’s an entirely fan-based bias. In 2023, they lost Judge to the NYYs, but signed 6 of MLBTR’s top 50 FA, with a 7th, in Correa agreeing to sign. Yet people derive from losing Judge alone, that no one wants to sign with Giants. It’s not just illogical. It’s willfully moronic.
Players will sign where they’re offered the best deal. But, if fans want to believe that SF has a problem signing FAs, fine. It’s only limits their objectivity in analyzing the game.
Don’t allow the trolls here get to you.
@yankees
Even if this one-off is a troll, there is a legion of otherwise well-meaning Giants fans (and a lot of other people, apparently) that unironically believe @SFG’s logic, so it’s worth @jean pointing that out.
The “a lot of other people” crowd have probably not left their own neighborhoods in years and never been to SF. Every fan base has their fair share of non- criticial-thinkers and take everything they read about it at face value. There are reasons why sites like Deadspin and Bleacher Reports exist. I’m aware that this sounds harsh.
“I’m aware that this sounds harsh”
Nah, I think you nailed it.
He was offered 6.5MM and his agent advised they file for arb over something like 350K it seems far more likely the agent blew this than the Giants colluded to screw him. If I were Davis I’d be shopping for new representation asap.
I’d agree if we had seen this happen often but it looks like an extreme rarity to me. Zaidi outplayed Hannaford but you can’t really blame Matt for not seeing this coming when no one did.
Yes, you can blame Hannaford. This is exactly why players have lawyer agents. That said, we don’t know what Hannaford told Davis prior to exchanging numbers for arbitration. For all we know he explained this to Davis beforehand and Davis didn’t care.
If Davis played better they would not have signed Chapman
But yes his agent screwed him not the Giants
Had Zaidi and Giants front office not done it this way, there would be widespread critisism on here about how stupid the Giants were for not knowing this “loophole”. This totally falls on his agent for not being aware of the baragaining agreement rules, whereas the Giants did know the rule. I wish Davis the absolute best but don’t blame the Giants FO at all. They played by the rules that his agent should’ve known.
His agent passed up on an offer that was 94% of what they filed for. This is just gross malpractice on the agent’s part. A grievance hearing would also be crazy to me too because then they’d be put in a position to explain how Davis is actually better than Chapman, Soler, or Flores to validate any notion that he deserves a roster spot based on skill. It’s a non starter and frankly I feel bad for Davis but FFS no other team in baseball thought he was worth that money either so good luck with all that.
So true. Like most, it’s a no win situation for Zaidi. A couple of the usual suspects went with their favoured MO. Lay the boot in first, find out the information later.
I know it’s late in the off-season but I feel this could better for him in the long run. Teams don’t have much left this year and while that’s true he could sign a longer deal then 1 year so he is essentially entering free agency a year earlier. For teams right against the tax he might be an option BUT for teams he could take a smaller number in year 1 and larger salaries there on. So teams with only a little left this year can fit him in but his AAV will be higher then this year’s salary so tax tight teams will balk
It’s a tired trope to keep saying, “Clubs are taking advantage of a loophole!”
Anything allowed within the confines of a negotiated labor agreement is NOT a loophole. If the players wished to ‘eliminate’ whatever practice is deemed to be unacceptable, then they needed to negotiate to do so (i.e. give something up in order to get something).
In this case, JD Davis is going to be paid a million dollars to not play for the Giants, and he’s quite likely to find lucrative employment elsewhere.
Slimy move but the Giants, but as I noted yesterday, this is no longer a top organization. Another reason players will opt to go elsewhere.
Because not paying someone to play for someone else is real slimey. I would think there is not a single organisation in MLB not looking to avoid that.
Believing that the Giants operated any differently than every other club would have, under the same circumstances, is delusional.
The terms of the collective bargaining agreement were painstakingly negotiated line by line and word by word. Both sides are/were sophisticated parties represented by expert legal minds. There are no “loopholes” and no victims w/ respect to any outcome. If terms or outcomes are in dispute they will be adjudicated in the appropriate forum using the agreed upon rules.
Seems like the agent, like a lot of others, misread how the RSN collapse would affect the market. Also seems like Zaidi could have found a trade if the Giants would have eaten most of the money…which they’re not planning to spend anyway…and avoid this whole issue. Regardless of how it played out this is not a good look for either side.
Cubs need to snap him up on a 1 year deal with a mutual option.
Sounds like a scummy agent playing the victim card.
Probably a billion or two people on this planet that would give up several years of their life for 1.1 million dollars for doing nothing
Any other club would have done the same thing.
Gambled for an extra 500K and lost millions. Fire your agent sir.
I feel bad for San Francisco fans because this move by the GM will have repercussions down the road when other players and agents don’t want to deal with this Farhan Zaidi guy unless the contracts are 100% guaranteed….so this GM won the battle but at what cost. ?
What it will change is SF players avoiding arbitration in the future. They will come to agreement with SF beforehand. It’s a brilliant move by Zaidi. He sheds payroll for a player he no longer needs and serves notice on players in the future they better come to agreement with SF before arbitration.
As for free agents, their contracts are guaranteed so this means nothing. FA’s usually go to the team that offers the most money. They don’t care about how nice the GM is.
The more likely repercussion is that league wide, players will be more careful in assessing their roster status, prior to going to an arbitration hearing. If you aren’t 100% locked in, you might be better off taking the guaranteed contract on offer. If they don’t do that already. You know, the ones with agents earning their 10% plus.
3 finger split, You’re confused. You’re thinking of Davis as if he was a FA that signed with the Giants. He wasn’t. He was a guy under team control, and every team has needed to do something similar at some point in time that had a negative result for the player. Every team provides the constant reminder that baseball is a business.
The Giants have as much money to spend as any other team, and players will sign with the team that offers the best deal. And given that the Giants, over the past two seasons, have signed more top 50 FAs than any other team, your prediction of doom for the Giants, and their fans, is most probably inaccurate.
Alot of opinions and points thrown about in the comments. I would just like to offer mine.
To Uggla, your point that no other team would claim him because other teams see him not worth it. I disagree. 29 other teams know the rules of the waiver wire. those 29 teams know that they probably can get him cheaper due to the lateness in the season, and are looking at their bottom line. So the 29 teams not claiming him at that salary says nothing about his talent or that teams are not interested.
As to being waived by SF. No issue with it as it is allowed. I truly think the agent deserves 90% blame here and JD the other 10%.
Now about the grievance part of the rules. JD should fire this agent and hire someone like Borrus to handle his next contract and rep him in the Grievance. As the rules allows for JD being waived, there is also the rule that they have to have just cause to be able to void payment of the full salary. I believe they will have a rd time proving their case based on the the two qualifying rules. Also I don’t believe that signing Chapman can be a valid part of their defense. They have to prove that JD does not have the skill and ability, or the second rule, that I am drawing a blank on right now. It not about any other player or someone else being better than JD. They SF, have to prove that only JD did not meet one of the two required qualifying reasons stated. Not that he is worse player than A, B, or player C.
That is my take on it with taking out the emotion of weather or not Do I think SF, did him wrong.
Who gives a crap. Farhan did someone dirty. Shock. He’s doing the whole fan base dirty by pretending to try & win. All SF FO cares about is $$. Do you really think the Giants will be relevant with literally 1 proven SP to start the season. And there’s 2 great SP still there & SF won’t pay either of them. Yet they get Matt Chapman when JD gives you the same thing offensively. Giants are a joke. I wish the fans would look at the reality of the FO wants $$, not wins. Which is fine, but say that. Quit telling the fans you’re committed to winning, because you’re clearly not. They refuse to go get & pay a proven really good starter & are going to start the season with Webb, a rookie, & a RP turned starter, after that you have nothing. Maybe Harrison or flamethrower from Toronto pans out, but what if they both struggle? That will make you competitive every 5th day (but SF is committed to winning), what a joke
I hear the Padres fan base is hiring.
Their may be opportunities there for you.
Definition of cognitive dissonance: When Zaidi’s offers are in the neighborhood of $360M for Judge, $700M for Ohtani, $325M for Yamamoto, and $350M for Correa, but hold the belief that Zaidi doesn’t want to win, but just increase profits for the owners. Also see; delusional.