The Giants have requested unconditional release waivers on corner infielder J.D. Davis after he went unclaimed on outright waivers, the team announced to various reporters (including Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle). Once he clears, he’ll be a free agent.
Davis won an arbitration hearing over the Giants earlier in the offseason, which awarded him a $6.9MM salary. However, under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement, that sum isn’t fully guaranteed until Opening Day. By cutting him now, the Giants could potentially only owe him 30 days of termination pay — about $1.11MM. The CBA, however, explicitly states that this applies to players who have “failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability.” That hardly seems to apply to Davis, who hit .248/.325/.413 with 18 home runs during the 2023 regular season and is 6-for-15 with a pair of homers this spring (.400/.471/.800).
Under the previous collective bargaining agreement, no arbitration deals were fully guaranteed unless specifically bargained as such. The new set of rules fully guarantees the deals of players who agree to terms absent a hearing — but allows teams to move on from players who go to a hearing without being responsible for the full freight of the contract. A player released more 16 or more days before the season opener is entitled to 30 days of his prorated salary, whereas a player released with fewer than 16 days before the opener is entitled to 45 days of his prorated salary. Again, however, that’s contingent on “failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability.” Davis’ representatives at ALIGND Sports and the MLBPA ostensibly have cause to file a grievance on his behalf, claiming that his termination is not reflective of his skill (or lack thereof).
For much of the offseason, it looked as though Davis would be the Giants’ primary option at the hot corner. Matt Chapman lingered on the open market long enough that the Giants were able to scoop him up on a three-year deal at much more favorable terms than expected heading into the offseason. Chapman can opt out of that $54MM deal in either of the next two offseasons, but his price tag dropped to the point where the Giants felt they couldn’t pass on the deal — even it meant moving on from a productive player in the 31-year-old Davis.
The Giants unsuccessfully attempted to trade Davis after signing Chapman, president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi said on a call with reporters today (X link via Slusser). The team placed Davis on outright waivers over the weekend, but by this point on the calendar, most clubs have used up the bulk of their offseason budgets. A $6.9MM salary isn’t a notable percentage of most teams’ payrolls, but it was hefty enough at this time of the offseason that no team felt comfortable claiming it. The fact that Davis could be signed for a lesser salary upon clearing waivers and becoming a free agent surely played into the calculus for interested clubs as well.
While the 2023 season was far from Davis’ best, it was still a productive one all around. He’ll immediately become one of the most intriguing bats on the market and could land with any team looking to add some right-handed thump to its lineup. Last year’s .248/.325/.413 slash was four percent better than average, by measure of wRC+, but from 2019-22 Davis turned in a much healthier .276/.363/.457 line — about 27% better than average, per wRC+. Davis has roughly even platoon splits throughout his career.
From a defensive standpoint, an opposite trajectory has played out — at least in the eyes of Statcast. Davis has been panned as a poor defender for years at the hot corner, but Statcast graded him five outs above average in 2023. Defensive Runs Saved remained quite bearish on him (-11). Most clubs likely view Davis as a below-average defender and thus as a limited player, but there’s little doubting he’s a major league bat who can improve nearly any club’s everyday lineup — or at least its bench mix.
For the Giants, if they indeed succeed in shaving nearly $5.8MM off the books in 2024, they’ll be about $10MM shy of the luxury tax threshold, per RosterResouce. Whether that opens the door for any further, late additions in free agency or via the trade market remains to be seen. Zaidi has suggested that his team is likely done with significant additions, but he made similar comments after signing Jorge Soler and then went on to sign Chapman as well.
SODOMOJO
F
TellItGoodbye
Cooked his own goose.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
J.D., welcome to Petco or Wrigley
NYCityRiddler
Punked himself. Ahahaha!
drasco036
I don’t see the fit in Chicago. I’d roll with what we have, Morel, Madrigal and Wisdom. Let Morel succeed or fail, if he fails, then bridge Madrigal until Shaw is ready.
cubsmatt
I got curious about this and looked up the numbers, and what I found was that Davis’ 2023 stat line was nearly identical to the Cubs’ total 2023 3B production, to an uncanny degree. BA Davis .248 Cubs .249. OBP Davis .325 Cubs .323. SLG Davis .413 Cubs .415. That’s an identical OPS. HR/RBI Davis 18/69 Cubs 20/64. So, I think the word is “Redundant.”
CFS77
If they can get him for league min why not. I see him replacing a often injured Madgril or Wisdom. Morel has a cruddy throwing style that causes balls to sail. That will take time to hone his delivery and pushing 10 errors in Apr trying to figure it out is equal to losses.
drasco036
It’s doubtful you’ll be able to get him at a league minimum and the Cubs have younger, potentially better options to give at bats to.
I haven’t watched a lot of spring training but I’m not hearing a lot of complaining about Morel at third. Then the Cubs have a lot of options to use as place holders, Madrigal, Wisdom, Vazquez before getting to Shaw.
I guess, in my eyes, you have to give Morel enough leash to hang himself. Then you have options to implement before having to seek out a trade. I don’t think Morel is the type of guy who will have success at DH (where I think Wisdom is exactly the kind of guy who will “succeed” at DH). Signing Davis would weaken the team, IMO by not allowing Morel a chance to flourish with the bat while also taking at bats away from players, stalling development. He would also push the Cubs closer to the luxury tax threshold which could hamper the cubs ability to make impact trades at the deadline.
Unclemike1525
I’ve watched all the Spring games for the most part. Morel has had one bad game at 3B. I’ve seen him make way more good plays than bad. Is he perfect? No. Is he better than he was? Yes. His bat is worth way more than the trade off at 3B. His footwork is better and what will make him better is playing time. He’s going to get that playing time. The Cubs Don’t need another 3B. They like what they have and if Morel doesn’t make it for some reason Shaw is coming on fast. I’ll say it again-The Cubs don’t need or want a 3B. They’re fine. They don’t need any more starting pitchers either. The FA thing is done for them.
Moonlight Graham
Redundant…unless Davis were to hit better in Wrigley than in San Francisco. But it’s likely a negligible difference. And Davis is not exactly a wizard with the glove, so he probably wouldn’t add much value to the Cubs.
drasco036
Agreed, IMO, if they did ANYTHING it would be snagging Martínez on a one year deal and to me that would just be an opportunistic move getting an impact bat way below market value. And again, that is purely opportunistic and far from a need.
I think both front on pitching is fine, relievers and starting pitching. Odds are we are going to lose some relievers we wish we wouldn’t as the season goes on since we don’t have many guys with options.
As I said before, Morel is such a high energy guy he needs to play the field otherwise he isn’t going to hit. Ross never put those two together facts together. Wisdom is the opposite end of the spectrum, dudes a DH with the ability to play the field in a pinch. I know you don’t like him but I think he will flourish in the role… as in maybe a .220-.240 batting average and a .300-.320 on base but with 500 at bats will jack 35 home runs.
The biggest questions for me is the bench:
Bellinger
Swanson
Hoerner
Happ
Suzuki
Busch
Morel
Gomes
Wisdom
Amaya
Tauchman
Are locks leaving two open spots. If healthy I imagine Madrigal will get one. I kind of think Cooper is the guy we break camp with.
Unclemike1525
I totally agree on Cooper. If I was the Manager he’d be going North. The Tauchman decision kind of sends Canario back to Iowa. The other lock for me is Mastrobuoni. Cooper is what Mancini was supposed to be. He takes walks, works counts has power and can actually play 1B well if Busch needs to sit against a Lefty. But he’s hit Lefties well so far. Mastrobuoni is a LH bat on a RH heavy team and can play more positions. He’s more valuable than the others. And I agree with the bullpen. Unless Palencia and Little go North, Every time they need a pitcher someone will have to go through waivers unless they hit the IL.
Unclemike1525
Plus if Morel needs a blow at 3B then Busch can slide over and play there and Cooper can play 1B. I’m not positive if Busch has played much 3B this spring but if he did I don’t remember so it couldn’t have been awful. It just makes them more flexible with 13 guys. If you’re worried about losing Wisdom he’ll pass through waivers and nobody else will claim him at 3 million bucks. He’ll go to Iowa because nobody else will give anything besides a Minor League deal for less money.
Franco27
He’s better than Morel with the glove. Morel is unplayable at 3B.
Franco27
Madrigal is on his way out. Bote has outplayed him and now Madrigal is hurt again.
Unclemike1525
Wrong and more wrong. Watch the games.
drasco036
I think you are under valuing Wisdom. I’m not a lover of ol Patrick Wisdom but the guy raked in the second half, destroyed soft toss pitchers and beat the ball to death in the DH role. Add the fact he can play the field and it increases his value some.
You and I both know Wisdom isn’t a strong defender but being able to play any corner could be the difference in whether or not you have to expose someone to waivers.
drasco036
Morel is just erratic with his arm, his range is really good and he will occasionally drop a ball due to his hand injury. As long as he keeps working on his footwork at third, I don’t see any reason why he cannot be an adequate defender there.
Bote is hitting well this spring and actually hit well in the minors last season but I don’t think he will break camp. He may get called up in a pinch and then released but I really don’t see the Cubs exposing anyone to waivers to add him to the 40 man
marinersfan1977
he’s not getting $7 million, but he’s surely gonna get more than the Major League minimum!
Billg7987
Wow. They differed by $450k at arbitration. That’s a lot of money, even for him, but to risk $5.5 million guaranteed for a possible $450k is not a strong move. Especially because he knew, even back then, the team was interested in Chapman. Rough for him – I hope he finds a good fit.
Seamaholic
It’s Spring Training.
Treehouse22
This dude’s career batting splits are identical. He’s equally solid against both LHP and RHP. He’s versatile and playable in CI and LF. He’d be useful on most clubs. I’m anxious to see where he lands.
kylegocougs
How? By being above average?
Bob Sacamano 310
If he agreed to a salary with the Giants, his salary would be fully guaranteed. Him beating them in arbitration doesn’t guarantee it now.
BannedMarlinsFanBase
It will be interesting. And a good education moment for a lot of us to see how this scenario works…assuming the Giants refuse to be responsible for the $6.9 million differential once Davis signs thet League Minimum deal with his next team, and expecting that he will get that salary instead of the lower salary implications due to this happening now.
Blackpink in the area
Read the article Bob. The team has to prove he’s not performing. And good luck with that argument.
NYCityRiddler
I always pictured Davis as a short-order cook, wearing a dirty wife beater & slinging hash in a greasy spoon called Mom’s. “Order up!” Ahahaha!
BannedMarlinsFanBase
Either that or one of the aliens in an upcoming MIB movie since Will Smith (the “actor” and “rapper”, not the Catcher or Lefty Reliever) is trying to go to his old moneygrabs.
Either way, JD looks right in either a greezy (in JD’s case, not greasy) wifebeater or wearing one while green ooze is leaking from him.
oldgfan
Big decision to even file the grievance. If he wins it could sour other team executives that may have considered giving him a job. Will it be worth 6.9M to possibly lose out on a better future contract ? He’s not that great of a player so maybe he should take what he can get elsewhere. Wrong side of 30, so will be interesting how this plays out.
He’s got about 10M in the bank so he won’t be hurting no matter what happens.
Blackpink in the area
If other teams treat him differently because he files a grievance he can file a lawsuit.
BaseballisLife
No they don’t. The team doesn’t have to prove anything. He was waived so he didn’t have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make the Giants roster. He wasn’t claimed in waivers so no other team felt he had “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make their roster.
Blackpink in the area
He was waived because they signed Chapman not because he wasn’t any good.
He wasn’t claimed because no team wanted to pay him 6.9 million.
He will file a grievance and he will win.
Gwynning
I disagree, BiL. He was essentially “cut” because the G-men upgraded. Hardly indicative of “lack of sufficient skill, etc.”
He’s hitting .400 in ST with a couple dongs. Davis has “the skill”
I am of the opinion that SF will pay the entire 6.9MM (less the League Vet Min after his new team takes form.)
Blackpink in the area
Read the article Los. Not that simple. Giants messed up they will pay him the entire salary.
Gwynning
We’ll see how it plays out, leebos. SF might want to “be careful” with how the optics are perceived. Imo, they’re just going to be looking for a new 3rd baseman all over again next Offseason, and good luck finding one if they take a sour deuce on JD.
los_leebos
my bad, comment removed, i see the more complicated stuff now
Gwynning
You’re good bro! Later leebs
Kash Considerations
That’s the only halfway smart thing I’ve ever seen you say, blackpink.
BaseballisLife
He still didn’t have sufficient skill or competitive ability to make the Giants roster. It doesn’t matter if they upgraded, just that he was not good enough to make their roster.
Since no team claimed him, that shows he didn’t have sufficient skill or competitive ability to make any other roster.
Obviously spring training stats mean absolutely nothing.
If the MLBPA files a grievance, which is highly unlikely, they will lose. Its a slam dunk.
User 4245925809
Agree Blackpink. Look no further than so called umpire Angel hernandez still working for mlb that dumping overpaid and inept people are not all over the sport, virtually non fireable.
Take the “outs” built in as much as possible and paying a below replacement level guy, like Davis almost 7m is an easy call to unload.
Blackpink in the area
He’s good enough to make the roster. That’s clear as day. Even if he wasn’t a starter anymore he’s 100% good enough for a bench role.
No team claimed him because it’s mid March and he’s making 6.9 million.
You are wrong. Wait and see. I admit I didn’t know the rules until reading them in the article here today. Apparently Zaidi didn’t know them either. Davis will get his full salary from the Giants.
Gwynning
Sans Chapple, JD definitely makes the SF roster. And I might add he wasn’t claimed because teams know that they could have him cheaper. Why pay the San Francisco arbitration number when you don’t have to? It’s like finding an “expired” cake at Costco- you know you’ll get it for a fraction of the price so why pay top dollar? Anyway, see y’all laterrr
Gwynning
Don’t bother with that knucklehead, Kash. He’ll just stalk you and want to argue forrreverrrrrr lol
Blackpink in the area
When it comes to Davis and his salary the Giants though he was worth 6.2 million that’s the number they filed in the hearing. So how can they possibly argue he’s not worth at least that much?
It was questionable to even offer him arbitration at the time but that’s not really the point.
BaseballisLife
Joel P, if he was good enough to make the roster on any team he would not have been waived by the Giants and after being waived he would have been claimed by some team. He was waived and no team claimed him.
You like to argue so much while always being wrong that you have already been banned on 3 accounts. When will you get the hint?
bag o ballz
he is released unconditionally so I don’t see why he would get the league minimum. that happens if his pay is guaranteed which it isn’t by the CBA – whoever signs him would have to negotiate a new deal
BaseballisLife
Which says he doesn’t have sufficient skill and competitive ability. It really can’t be any clearer than that. He won’t get any more than the termination fee from the Giants.
Blackpink in the area
He wasn’t claimed because he’s making 6.9 million and it’s mid March teams aren’t looking to spend that kind of money. He didn’t have a chance to shop himself on the open market because he wasn’t on the open market.
You don’t get it. You are wrong.
bag o ballz
well I think that this was the plan regardless of what they need to pay or not.
Card AG
Don’t see how he wins. The giants didn’t do anything wrong here
Blackpink in the area
The Giants absolutely did something wrong here and he will win. Players have rights. They all get paid too much imo but they have rights and the Giants broke the rules.
oldgfan
He probably won’t file.
Especially if another team shows interest. Why risk future playing time and or earnings.
AmericanRedneck
His ST performance has been phenomenal, above league average last year, with bat and glove, I think the Giants will end up picking up the tab minus the league minimum.
AmericanRedneck
Collusion in MLB is real, that’s harder to prove though. He should file a grievance indeed, 6.9M is not a small sum of money.
bag o ballz
it’s not collusion – it is more that they are all looking at the same data now and making the same projections. well – except colorado and you see how well they do.
Pads Fans
The team doesn’t have to prove anything. All they have to do is say he was not going to crack their roster and had no options to be sent to the minors. That is enough. They have been discussing it all day on MLB Network radio and everyone is saying the same thing. Its up to the team. Even if the MLBPA did file a grievance, the fact that he was not picked up on waivers is enough to verify the Giants decision as valid.
408inthe619
Exactly right. It’s an intentionally ambiguous standard. Davis is screwed.
At first I thought that SD would be a good fit for Davis, but I’m actually excited to see what Graham Pauley brings to the table. Plus he’s a lefty hitter; right now, he and Crone Zone are the only ones
cainer18
He’ll essentially get a 30-day severance from the Giants(about $1.1M), and then 100% of any other salary will come from his new team.
Unlike a guaranteed contract that covers the whole season, the Giants have essentially nullified the contract at that 30-day severance cost. So he’s a totally unrestricted free agent and can negotiate for any salary without the Giants being involved in any way.
LLGiants64
The 3 days you spent in law school didn’t help….
Pete'sView
He doesn’t need to sign a League Minimum deal; he will get paid a lot more than that—just not $6.9M
drasco036
I’m curious what will happen when the lawyers get a hold of this, one could argue that a WAR under 1 is not really being competitive but the opposing side could argue if that was the case, why did the Giants just non-tender him?
gbs42
BiL,
Saying something four times doesn’t make it true. No team wanted to take Davis at $6.9M, but that doesn’t mean he lacks the skill to be a major leaguer. It means they were waiting for him to be put on waivers so they could sign him to the MLB minimum and let SF pay him the remaining $6.16M.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I seem to remember something like this happening to David Fletcher of the Angels. He had a salary of 2 or 3 million and wanted to hang on to it so he opted to play at the AAA level for quite some time to maintain his salary. Just wondering if Davis could choose to play at AAA while maintaining the salary.
marinersfan1977
The Giants aren’t responsible for more than one month, which amounted to $1.1 million. Davis isn’t signing for the minimum salary, which is less than $1 million!
marinersfan1977
that’s not the way it works. Player’s agent has to first file a grievance and then there’s a hearing. Not a slam dunk by any means.
marinersfan1977
no he won’t. He’ll get $1.1 million and that’s it.
marinersfan1977
because that’s the way the arbitration rules work!
drasco036
Fletcher and Bote were in the same boat, they signed extensions with their teams, were over three years so they could refuse outright assignment but under 5 years of service time which would have made their salaries fully guaranteed if they refused assignment.
Just Rob
Except – if he is signed to a contract for a lesser amount than what he was slated to make (or no one bothers to sign him for even the vet minimum), that would be a fact indicating that he was not performing up to the value of that contract.
JoeBrady
He won’t get any more than the termination fee from the Giants.
=======================
I would take that bet. The SFG argued that he was worth~ $6.5M. If they thought he was worth $6.5M a month ago, then the “sufficient skill” clause cannot possibly work.
Or seen from another angle, if that clause works for a guy with a 1.271 OPS in ST, then the clause will work 100% of the time. So why have it?
And lastly, anyone hearing this case will recognize that the real reason they are dropping him is because they signed Chapman. If Chapman signed elsewhere, Davis would be the SF starting 3B.
JoeBrady
They all get paid too much imo but they have rights and the Giants broke the rules.
==========================
I agree 100%. I have never seen a more obvious case of manipulating the arbitration rules. If the PA allows this, they will never win another case like this.
That said, I expect a settlement where Davis gets 100% of his money, and the SFG pay the difference between his arb salary and whatever his new team pays him.
JoeBrady
one could argue that a WAR under 1 is not really being competitive
===========================
Exactly. He is the same player today as he was when they offered him the $6.5M. I see no way that they could argue that they offered him $6.5M, but he wasn’t worth $6.5M.
drasco036
The grievance, if made, will come down to interpretation. What the interpretation of the terminology in the agreement is. “Competitive” can be a really relative term, is it team based? Is it league based? WAR related? Position specific?
JoeBrady
If the owners win this case, that will impact all future arbitration cases. If I’m on the fence about some middling RP in his 6th year asking for $5M, instead of offering $4M, I can offer $3M, knowing that I can cut him for almost any reason.
And the players going to arb will know this as well. The entire concept of binding arbitration is that you are stuck with the decision, favorable or otherwise.
Gwynning
Good point JB, except we have to consider that subsequent Arb years will “never” be cheaper.
BaseballisLife
Davis was released so he is no longer a Giant.
BaseballisLife
It doesn’t matter what the $$$ are. It only matters that in the Club’s determination he wasn’t good enough to make the roster. Go read 7(2) of the UPC. It says its 100% up to the Giants.
If he asked the MLBPA to file a grievance I doubt they would because of how that clause reads. They know they would lose.
BaseballisLife
They have already won. The clause itself says its at the Club’s discretion.
BaseballisLife
7 (b)(2) fail, in the opinion of Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team.
This is 100% at the discretion of the Giants. He can’t win if he files a greivance because the clause says “in the opinion of the Club’s management”.
BaseballisLife
Its not ambiguous. It says “in the opinion of the Club’s management…” in 7(b)(2) of the UPC.
BaseballisLife
You really need to read the UPC before commenting.
7 (b)(2) fail, in the opinion of Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team.
Page 411 of the CBA. You can download ir at the MLBPA website.
He doesn’t have grounds for a grievance. He will get termination pay and travel expenses. That’s it. The UPC is clear.
BaseballisLife
This is the clause that would be interpreted.
7 (b)(2) fail, in the opinion of Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team.
The line “in the opinion of Club’s management’ is why no grievance will be filed.
BaseballisLife
7 (b)(2) fail, in the opinion of Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team.
Why do people argue these points without bothering to read the actual clause they are arguing about?
Page 411 of the CBA in Appendix A, Major League Uniform Player’s Contract
Section 7 (b)(2)
Blackpink in the area
He didn’t fail to exhibit sufficient skill. Even if he was displaced as a starter he’s good enough for a bench role. The problem is the Giants don’t want to pay him the agreed to amount for a bench role and that’s wrong.
gbs42
BiL,
You’ve repeated the same comment almost as often as Ferris Bueller cut class.
Pads Fans
Not sure why you are all still talking about this. HERE is the clause in question about termination.
TERMINATION
By Club
7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team; or
What part of ” in the opinion of the Club’s management” do you not understand?
Or is it that you didn’t even READ the actual UPC that you are arguing about? All you read was the one portion of it that the people on this website posted.
You can find the Uniform Players Contract here.
mlbplayers.com/_files/ugd/4d23dc_d6dfc2344d2042de9…
Download it.
The UPC is Appendix A
The Giants don’t have to prove anything. They don’t have to show that his performance declined or that he wasn’t worth any amount of money.
ALL they have to do is say that IN THEIR OPINION he was not good enough to make their team. End of conversation. No grievance filed.
Pads Fans
What BIL said is true. The problem is that no one has READ the freaking clause itself. They are arguing over the one small part of the clause that the MLBTR writers posted. Here is the whole thing. Once you actually READ it, you understand immediately that its up to the Giants.
TERMINATION
By Club
7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team; or
Pads Fans
I posted that above. Maybe I should have read further down all the comments to see that you had already handled it. In quadruplicate.
gbs42
Pads Fans,
I hope you’re not trying to catch up with BiL’s post count.
Pads Fans
LOL. No. Didn’t see his posts before I posted.
Pads Fans
You are still arguing this.
Joel, go read the UPC. It says fail in the opinion of the Club’s management…. Case closed.
Just stop. You are wrong.
Blackpink in the area
The Giants have to prove that’s true and they can’t because it isn’t. That’s the part you are ignoring for reasons I couldn’t explain and you couldn’t either.
stymeedone
Of course he’s one of the better bats on the market. The market did a closing announcement weeks ago. The shoppers put their players in their baskets and headed to the registers a long time ago. All that’s left is the day old sale produce.
Blackpink in the area
And that’s the thing Stymee. Davis didn’t get the opportunity to sign a fair market deal. This isn’t Chapman or Bellinger who’s moronic agent CHOSE to wait until March. He never had the chance like you said teams are done shopping.
oldgfan
Martinez & Belt disagree on the better bats statement.
C4Luke
yeesh
5TUNT1N
Sucks to lose a valuable player for such a limited amount of money from this franchise, but they didn’t really pay anything for him and it’s hard to argue the roster spot isn’t going players with better fit on the roster. Wish we were able to maximize his value but I don’t honestly thing Chapman at 55 million was in their discussions prior to this move.
jyosuckas
Yea they robbed the Mets in that trade
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
That’ll teach him to battle Zaidi in arbitration
Seamaholic
He’ll lose a little money (I’d guess not a ton though) but gain a far better chance to play. He’s probably perfectly pleased at the moment.
Wagner>Cobb
Yeah, this is much better for him than riding the pine for a year. Has a chance at a multi-year deal if he plays well this year.
Jdt8312
He won’t lose money. He’ll win the grievance. They’ll have to pay him.
Mustard Tiger
Wrong
Unclemike1525
If I read the wording right that to be released his production needed to take a noticeable downturn for them to release him without paying him. It’ll surely be fought by the players union and they’ll probably end up getting him paid.
kenly0
I think he’ll lose. It doesn’t help his case that no team was willing to claim him for 6.9 million. So, no team including the Giants wanted him for that amount.
christian21
I don’t see how he could lose. It was determined by a panel of experts (presumably the same sort of panel that would determine the verdict on this grievance) he was worth a dollar amount. Then nothing but a few spring training games (where he hit well) occurred. And then they ditched him. I don’t see how the Giants could have a leg to stand on. Other teams not picking him up in the interest of financial prudence doesn’t indicate Davis failed in some manner. He had no opportunity to succeed or fail. The other teams just have their payrolls set or suspected there was an opportunity to get him for less.
Phree4u
Salary is irrelevant. His skills have not diminished. Giants owe him the full amount in my opinion. We’ll see how it plays out once a grievance is filed, probably by the end of the day today.
BaseballisLife
They can’t file a grievance until his release is final and even then it’s doubtful the MLBPA will. They know they would lose.
Blackpink in the area
Kenly the amount he’s being paid by the Giants makes no difference. The Giants are going to have to pay his salary.
Mikenmn
Well, that’s March 11, where most teams have set most of their rosters. Also, and I;m not suggesting collusion, most of these teams have a vested interest in seeing David lose, because they might like to do the same thing to one of their roster guys they decided is superfluous
WestVillageTiger
That’s backward reasoning. The Giants purposefully manipulated the timing to the degree that would make it difficult for Davis to get a fair market deal. If Davis was mere insurance for the team and was subsequently collateral damage in the team’s free agent negotiations, that’ll just make it worse for them in court.
marinersfan1977
the day is over and no grievance has been filed — and it won’t be filed ever.
BaseballisLife
All that is in the CBA is the line “sufficient skill or competitive ability”.
He was waived which means he didn’t have sufficient skill or competitive ability to make the Giants roster.
No other team picked him up on waivers so would be hard to argue that other teams felt he had the sufficient skill or competitive ability to make their roster.
If the MLBPA files a grievance they will lose.
Blackpink in the area
Just because he’s doesn’t have sufficient skill for a team for pick him up in the middle of March and pay him 6.9 million doesn’t mean he doesn’t have sufficient skill.
You are wrong. He will get his money.
BaseballisLife
Joel P, shut up. You are so argumentative that they have banned you on 3 accounts so far. You trying to make it 4?
Blackpink in the area
What I am saying is the truth. You are wrong. Wait and see.
Pads Fans
Joel, what BIL said is truth. You have been banned on 3 previous accounts and are shooting to get this one banned too by being argumentative to a fault.
All day long on MLB Network they have been saying that he has not case, that its up to the team, and that the MLBPA won’t file a grievance. .
Sometimes you have to listen to voices other than the ones in your head or you will be wrong as often as you are.
WestVillageTiger
JD was used as a negotiating chip that had considerable value. Without him on the roster, the Giants couldn’t hold the line on a price for Chapman. Please remember that players are addressed as “pieces” here, not people. His attorneys will make that point very clear.
deepseamonster32
MLB Network. Owned by the league owners says the player has no case. That settles everything when the owners’ mouthpiece says a player has no case
Pads Fans
MLB Network quoted the entire clause, not just the small piece you are all arguing over.
Since you are obviously too lazy or stupid to look it up, I will quote it here.
TERMINATION
By Club
7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team; or
Its in the CBA. Appendix A is the UPC. Go read it then come back and apologize.
Blackpink in the area
How did he fail to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to be a member of the team?
How did he do that?
Pads Fans
Joel, why are you still arguing this point?
What part of “in the opinion of the Club’s management” do you NOT understand?
Do you enjoy getting slapped down for always being wrong? Do you need attention that bad?
JohnJasoJingleHeimerSchmidt
“to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team”
If the Giants are of the opinion that he isn’t good enough to make the 26-man roster, that justifies the decision…
stymeedone
That may be the case, but how much time will pass before the hearing? If SFG are picking up all but the minimum, he can sign where ever he wants. If the Giants only have to pay severance, the new team needs to decide what they think he’s worth, and so much for freedom of choice.
Tacoshells
May this be a lesson to take the all! Don’t mess with the Zeye ee dee
Unclemike1525
So what’s the point of arbitration? If the team wins it’s OK. If the player wins the team can cut him and not have to pay him? Who negotiated that for the players? They should fire him if they haven’t already. That’s a win-win for the owners.
xtraflamy
Arb contracts never used to be guaranteed. Now the they are if there is no trial. It’s improved from what it used to be.
Jdt8312
The Giants are going to have to pay Davis. He will win the grievance. And the Giants will have even more trouble signing players because of the hard feelings the MLBPA will feel about it.
JohnJasoJingleHeimerSchmidt
” And the Giants will have even more trouble signing players because of the hard feelings the MLBPA will feel about it”
The feelings of the MLBPA regarding player contract situations has *rarely* been an issue in regards to free agency. Players want money. They aren’t going to turn down guaranteed money because of something that happened to J.D. Davis.
Need evidence: the Yankees have had no problem signing free agents despite the grievance filed by Jacoby Ellsbury. I seriously doubt any player or agent remotely gives a hoot about any of this.
I.M. Insane
I’d play for $13 an hour over working for Zaidi.
User 401527550
How’s that? The Giants are out one of their most productive players.
Benjamin101677
Never liked the rules of the arbitration salary; for nothing he did just a giants upgrade he looses about 6 million.
Is it correct that he can now only sign for the league min salary?
ohyeadam
I believe he’s a free agent, no strings attached
Steve Adams
No, that only applies when the player has a prior guaranteed salary elsewhere. Davis’ termination pay is considered different from a guaranteed salary with another club. He can sign for the highest amount someone else is willing to offer.
davemlaw
Exactly
Davis can sign a multi-year deal with another team, he’s going to be an unrestricted free agent.
When you look at Soler and Gary Sanchez’ contracts, it’s not unreasonable to think Davis could sign a 3 year $30M+ deal; he’s a serviceable infielder with a good bat as opposed to a bat only player.
Current baseball economics are very strange with the whole Diamond/RSN imbroglio; last year this guy never clears waivers, he’d have been traded or claimed.
BaseballisLife
I think he might get a multi-year deal as a free agent, but its doubtful he gets even $6.9 million AAV. He might get $10-12 million on a 3 year deal.
Digdugler
If a team wanted to offer 3/$30m, wouldnt they have just claimed him at 1/$6.9m?
Wagner>Cobb
I could see him signing a 1 year deal at a “minimum” salary this year and parlaying that into a 2, 3, or 4 year deal next offseason depending on how well he does. If he pops off he could be in line for a deal similar to what Candelario got. Davis would be a little older, but 3 years is very attainable, especially away from SF.
Next off-season might present a robust 3B market, but this isn’t a sure thing. Bregman could sign an extension. Chapman could play poorly enough to stay in SF or play well enough to want too much money again. Turner will be a year older and that much more of a DH. Suarez will either be good enough to stay in AZ (via the club option) or bad enough to be less ideal than Davis coming off a good season. The same is true of Moncada. Gio Urshela is a similar level as Davis and might be his main competition market-wise.
stymeedone
Teams didn’t have 6.9MM to claim him or think he was worth that much. He won’t be signing for more than that per year. Maybe 3 yrs at $5 per.
User 401527550
Why would he get a minimum salary other then you wanted to sound good?
Dennis Boyd
Who exactly is going to pay him 3@30 (10AAV), when they passed on signing him for 6.9M?
bag o ballz
yeah I would think it ends up being something like 3/15 -18. it is going to be under the 6.9 to give the team getting him surplus value but will be a short term deal
bag o ballz
I think it will be 5 on the low end – considering he won the arb hearing, his value was pegged at 6.9 I think it will be somewhere between 5 and 6 aav
marinersfan1977
$3-4 million max
WestVillageTiger
It’ll be the a prorated Gio Urshela special at $1.5 million AAV, adjusted for lost plying time if any. The Diamond Sports collapse exposed the absurdity of baseball contracts.
bob9988 2
So, since it was 1.1m termination pay, that means he gets to keep it and any new free agent deal he signs. Its not like if he was released from a guaranteed salary that any new deal would overwrite the old one?
Rexhudler86
He could still get a 3 million dollar deal so it would softened the blow a bit, and get more playing time.
Jdt8312
You may have missed the part where they are going to file a grievance. The Giants will have to pay the whole contract.
stymeedone
A ruling comes before a decision. Its not the player always wins.
Jdt8312
Yeah, but he’ll win it. He’s not a player with fading skills, as per winning in arbitration. So the clause doesn’t apply.
Pads Fans
They can file a grievance, but they wont.
TERMINATION
By Club
7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team; or
The clause is clear. Its up to the Club’s management.
Jdt8312
Yeah. It is. And in a grievance hearing they’d have to explain that to an arbitrator, and let that person decide if he was actually failing in skill, or competitive ability.
Mustard Tiger
I just listed to David Samson’s podcast (former President of the Miami Marlins) and he addressed the JD Davis situation. It’s cut and dried–Davis will get $1.1 million from the Giants in severance per the CBA (30 days of pay). And he will get whatever contract he negotiates with another team. The Giants released him at this time because two days later they would have been on the hook for a 45 day severance.
Davis is not getting $6.9 million unless he negotiates a contract with another team for $5.8 million. The Giants have no legal obligation to pay more than $1.1 million.
I don’t care what some of the armchair lawyers here think. I’m betting David Samson knows the CBA better than they do.
Jdt8312
We’ll see. The owners and MLBPA often say different things than the other. That is why they have arbitration, to decide who is right.
Unclenolanrules
You’re making my pea brain hurt, stop it.
User 4223176798
A reminder that baseball is still a business and like in all businesses, how you treat people determine your reputation and the willingness of people to work for you. Short term gain – long term harm.
mlb fan
“A reminder that baseball is still”..I think the S.F Giants will survive the loss of a ham-handed, career backup in J.D Davis.
Braves_saints_celts
He hasn’t been a career backup, so whatever you may think about him, or his skill is mute, since he’s mainly been a starter, that means he himself had a backup player coming into to play for him when he missed any time.
RedFraggle
Moot*…Mute and Moot are different words.
Braves_saints_celts
I couldn’t care less. My point remains the same. Grammar warriors do nothing to contribute to any topic. Y’all are everywhere.
BaseballisLife
It means your opinion is moot because his skill isn’t mute or silent.
socalbball
According to what you wrote, his skill set is silent, which doesn’t make much sense.
Albert Belle's corked bat
@True Giants Fan: Baseball operates and is indifferent than your occupation and the company you work for. You must still be upset that your Burger King manager traded you to McDonald’s for a “Royale with Cheese”.
VinceColemanStoleMyHeart
This is the point nobody is focusing on. The Giants are having a hell of a time getting FAs to sign with them. If management tries to screw over an established player (whether it succeeds or not), future FAs and their agents will take note. A $5M hit is a better investment on marketing to future players than it would be to save the money.
SupremeZeus
Next stop, Clark & Addison?
Unclemike1525
Not happening SupremeZ.
cubsmatt
Nah, he’s not really an improvement over what we have already.
Degaz
Get him Reds!!
hiflew
Because the Reds need another infielder?
christian21
I mean, up until a few days ago, they apparently were going into this season believing that they did need exactly one more than they currently will have.
hiflew
Well the Reds are hardly the authority. This is the same team that gave a 4 year deal to Mike Moustakas when they already had 4 long term infielders signed. Apparently they believe there are 6-7 full time infield positions.
User 401527550
Since they just lost one for half the season.
hiflew
Well they had 7, so I think they still need to lose at least one more.
User 401527550
They have 6 whole infielders. I guess they should never have to look at that market again.
mlb fan
J.D Davis & Tommy Pham are now the preeminent experts in using their big mouths to limit career baseball playing opportunities.
Braves_saints_celts
And watch him still get paid from the giants since he showed plenty of skill and him being released wasn’t due to him lacking skill, more so they found a better replacement, but he’s still good enough to make the claim that he deserves to get paid based on his performance.
Attystephenadams
He’ll be fine, and taking grounders in someone’s camp by Friday at the latest.
stymeedone
I will be surprised if the hearing is held before the season starts.
Wagner>Cobb
The Nationals or A’s could take a flier and trade him later. He could probably start for the Brewers or Mariners today and help them solidify their lineups. The White Sox could probably make room with a DH rotation. A return to the Mets seems unlikely. The Rockies make sense if Brendan Rodgers gets hurt and that pushes McMahon to 2B. Davis would also provide insurance for a potential Bryant injury.
Hope he finds a good situation and that he plays well.
Wagner>Cobb
The Padres, Angels, and Blue Jays make sense as well.
hiflew
Rockies won’t move McMahon to 2B again. They learned from that mistake last year. They are far more likely to bring up Trejo, Carreras, or even Amador if Rodgers gets hurt. Although it is a bit unfair to say “gets hurt again” because Rodgers is not exactly injury prone. He just had a really weird injury last spring training.
DonOsbourne
I don’t think he’s going to find that much of a market. A RH bat without a position on the wrong side of 30. Not a lot of selling points there.
Braves_saints_celts
He has a position though, it’s third base, and he’s not terrible.
mlb fan
“And he’s not terrible”…Talk about feint praise. That’s his upside of “not being terrible”, right?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Man you really don’t like Davis, do you?
Braves_saints_celts
So I’m guessing that any player that isn’t a super star is just absolutely useless in your opinion? He’s a good player, not great but good, and could help out a lot of teams. But sure dude go off. Sorry he didn’t sign your ball at a giants game or something, because that’s how you are making it out to be. you act like he’s the worst player on the planet. Sad that you hate someone you don’t even know.
stymeedone
“not terrible” is not much of a selling point. Try using that phrase in your next job interview and see how it works out.
User 401527550
I’m sure he’s a lot better at his job than you are at yours.
Candlestoked
@sty Last night my gal said I’m not terrible and I’m getting a second opinion!
vaderzim
I wish the Nats would get him, Senzel looks rough in Spring Training.
urnuts
Love to see him in Anaheim.
Ernie Riles
He gets 1.1 million from Giants. Will sign for 3 to 5 additional million and choose the team. He’ll be fine
mlb fan
Explain how the Giants owe him 1.1M. That’s not my understanding of arbitration contracts.
christian21
He’s owed 30 days’ worth of that salary upon release. That’s apparently 1.1 million.
BobinTexas
Read the article for that answer. The Giants owe him “at least $1.1 million” because the arbitration award wasn’t fully guaranteed. Now he may well file a grievance if that is all they try to pay him, as the full contract IS guaranteed under the CBA unless… he has “failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability.”
BaseballisLife
He isnt better than the Giants other options so he doesn’t have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make the roster.
Blackpink in the area
He’s not good enough to be a bench guy on the Giants?
Good luck explaining that.
foppert2
Ha ha.
Wilmer is better.
Job done
mlb fan
“Have sufficient skill or competitive”…Whether you’re good or have “sufficient skill” is an opinion and the only opinion that matters is the teams. I’ve heard of several players being released from arbitration contracts, but I’ve never heard of a player successfully challenging that he’s owed more than 30 days termination pay.
mlb fan
“Good luck explaining that”. JD’s been cut, traded or released several times in the last 5+ years. Proving he’s not an above average, all around player shouldn’t be too hard.
Blackpink in the area
The Giants themselves agreed to offer him arbitration at a price of 6.2 million for 2023. Now how are they going to say he’s no longer worth a roster spot? Even if he’s a bench piece he’s still deserving of a roster spot therefore he didn’t deserve to be let go.
Pads Fans
Obviously not because they just released him.
JoeBrady
he doesn’t have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make the roster.
========================
Then why did SF argue that he was worth $6.5M just one month ago?
tjmacari
Yay! This is thr type of free agent the A’s can afford! He’s an upgrade over Toro
Humm bumms
Tough side of the business. Giants hoping to rinse themselves of the salary and apply it to a SP. I liked having Davis on the Giants, pretty solid player. If Chapman hits this year, he’ll opt out.
Digdugler
Would you rather have IKF or JD Davis as your everyday 3B? Lets assume they both make $7M/year for this argument.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Depends on a team’s roster construction. IKF can play multiple positions with average defense.
Digdugler
Jays have 4 utility guys that play multiple positions but no 3B and need offense. Since IKF was signed for 2y/$15M and Davis could have been claimed or 1/$6.9M, its pretty perfect comparison.
YankeesBleacherCreature
In that context, I would take Davis but he wasn’t available at the time of IKF’s signing.
Blackpink in the area
The Kalefa signing was one of the worst of the offsesson. Should have signed Chapman for what he ended up getting but Boras was clueless and the Jays didn’t want to wait.
its_happening
Neither if you’re a contender.
But….JD Davis at 3B and IKF at 2B, or IKF at 3B and Cavan Biggio at 2B?
DanUgglasRing
He’s a good ball player with an above average bat. He’s good enough to start for several teams and I think he’ll sign somewhere for an average AAV of 2.5 million or a little over. The Giants simply had too much redundancy on the roster as they have essentially created a team of JD Davis’ and they had one too many. I wish the best for him and I know he’s going to do well somewhere else but I think this is going to end up being better for him that it ever could have been bad.
Bob Sacamano 310
I feel like I’d rather have Davis and Snell rather than just Chapman.
stymeedone
Not going to happen for $15MM per year
Bob Sacamano 310
I’m saying before they gave Chapman $20M for next year. Article says they have about $10M under luxury tax to work with so obviously not now. Which is why I said “JD Davis and Snell than just Chapman.” I know it ain’t gonna happen. At least not without moving some money.
Gmen777
Honestly it’s kind of BS how everything transpired and I feel situations like this will be addressed in next year’s CBA but Chapman was a clear upgrade over Davis and he didn’t have a spot anymore. Good luck JD
Cam
This one isn’t over. There is no reasonable way that the Giants can argue that he has failed to show “sufficient skill or ability” in order for the team to dodge guaranteed money. Expect a grievance to be filed pretty quickly here.
foppert2
I’m not so sure. Compared to his roster spot competition, the mercurial Wilmer Flores, he hasn’t showed “sufficient skill or ability”. It’s not a charity.
oldgfan
Yup. Add in the fact that nobody would trade for him, or claim him off waivers.
christian21
Don’t the Giants already apparently have a problem with free agents not wanting to sign there? Now this?
After seeing this play out, why would any free agent trust them moving forward?
BaseballisLife
This doesn’t apply to free agents. Just arbitration eligible players.
christian21
Yes, but it’s still indicative of the front office’s character. Maybe they wouldn’t be able to screw over a free agent in precisely this way, but there are plenty of other ways they might come up with.
DanUgglasRing
It would also apply to literally every other team that didn’t pick him up off waivers and pay him then? If he’s worth that much money surely all the teams that missed out on chapman would’ve grabbed him huh? I’m not saying he’s bad actually I really like him but he’s clearly not worth that paycheck and the whole league seems to agree.
Blackpink in the area
You don’t get it Dan. His salary isn’t the issue. That doesn’t matter.
And anyways it’s mid March. The Giants haven’t allowed him a real chance to determine his worth on the open market because teams have finished their offsesson shopping already.
The Giants messed up. Look at the bright side. Whatever money they threw away here they probably saved on that Chapman contract. But they will pay Davis his full salary.
DanUgglasRing
JD is that you?
Pads Fans
No, its Joel P. He has been banned on other boards and on 3 different accounts on this board. He will never admit he is wrong, regardless of the facts.
mlb fan
Yeah using the rules you negotiated with the player’s Union is really being “screwed over”. If the players let this slide, the owners might think they can just follow the rest of the rules of the current collectively bargained CBA and a dangerous precedent will be set.
Jean Matrac
christian21, You’re working under a false premise. The Giants’ have not had a problem signing FAs. Yes, they failed to sign Ohtani, Yamamoto, and Judge, but they’re far from the only team that failed there.
Lat season the Giants signed more of MLBTR’s top 50 FAs, This season they’ve signed 4, tying them with the Dodgers for the most. Players will go where the money is.
xtraflamy
Maybe they don’t like players that go whining to the press. If anyone did that on their non-guaranteed contract, it would not warm their employers’ hearts.
Irishblade
Go get him Jerry!
Travis’ Wood
So who decides if he performed well enough to keep his salary? And who thought adding such subjective language to the CBA was a good idea?
christian21
I would imagine a panel of arbiters that wouldn’t look too much unlike the one that just decided he was worth exactly that salary.
BaseballisLife
The Giants do. “Sufficient skill or competitive ability” just means he was good enough or not good enough to make the Giants roster.
christian21
He’s asking who determines in the case of this getting a grievance which… is determined by an arbitration panel and certainly not the Giants. I imagine the MLBPA would have a very different interpretation of that clause (which presumably was added for a reason) than that.
BaseballisLife
The Giants determined he does not have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make their roster.
No team claimed him on waivers so the also determined he doesn’t have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make their rosters.
Case closed.
YankeesBleacherCreature
It’s just wording for a reason to release him.
christian21
Man, you’re all over this thread doing Giants PR today, aren’t you, BaseballisLife?
christian21
“Just wording for a reason to release him” doesn’t track for me
If they’re given the ability to release him there’s no reason *to* include reasons why they’re allowed to *except* to establish limits for why.
That clause wouldn’t exist except that one side or the other argued for its inclusion. I’m guessing ownership isn’t the side that argued for it. Thus MLBPA probably have an interpretation that it means something more distinct than that.
Pads Fans
TERMINATION
By Club
7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team; or
That is the clause. Its clear that the Club’s management makes the determination of whether of not he can make their team.
Suitcase Simpson
ok, we got it, no more updates on this bum
BaseballisLife
“Sufficient skill or competitive ability” just means he is not good enough to make the Giants roster. Giants will just be paying the termination fee and JD will be able to sign a new deal as a free agent.
Blackpink in the area
Wrong. He’s obviously good enough to make the roster. Is he now overpaid since they signed Chapman? Yeah perhaps but that’s the Giants problem. They will pay his entire salary.
stymeedone
Nah, you can pay it, since you think he deserves it.
Blackpink in the area
I didn’t agree to pay him and then change my mind when a better deal came along.
They will pay.
Pads Fans
If he was good enough to make the roster, he wouldn’t have been waived. Who exactly do you think he better than at 3B or 1B that made the team?
AndyWarpath
I wonder if there’s room for a back room deal for something like this. I have no idea how closely this type of thing is policed. But something along the lines of “Hey JD, don’t file a grievance against us and we’ll pay you the difference in salaries off the books. That way you’re made whole and we have room under the cap.”
Gwynning
What you are suggesting is highly “illegal” in terms of the League and the CBT management.
scottn59c
What, exactly, constitutes “failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability”?
Two days ago, it looked like the Giants were going to get out of the contract with severance pay. But now I’m wondering if they get stuck with the full bill.
stymeedone
That is the question.
CowboyRobot
Mets should bring him back.
BaseballisLife
Neither Baty nor Vientos has shown in spring training that they can do the job at 3B so signing Davis would be a good stop-gap.
Gogiantspadressuck
Where are all the morons insisting the Giants would be on the hook for his contract a few days ago?
TellItGoodbye
He elected arbitration. Giants offered 6.55M, he wanted 6.9M. For $350,000 he’s out of a job. Greed has consequences. As does bad rapping your boss to the press. Maybe you can join the Cardinals so you and Craw can whine about how nobody respects your immense talents. Bye.
stymeedone
So you think if he was awarded the $6.55MM instead, they would have passed on signing Chapman? Or do you think they would have kept him on the bench for that? Fair or unfair, the Giants have an out. Wish my job gave a Million in severance.
TellItGoodbye
I don’t think they planned it this way, but I agree with what the Giants did. It’s an awesome out to have, especially with another ungrateful multi-millionaire.
JoeBrady
This looks like a sure loss for the Giants. One month ago, they argued that he was worth $6.55M. He has a 1.271 OPS in ST. If I were on the jury, I’d think he was worth more now than when the Giants said he was worth $6.55M.
Maybe I’d say he is worth $6.55M less whatever he signs for.
Or else he stays with the Giants for the $6.8M, and the the Giants trade him for whatever salary relief they can get. Someone should be willing to kick in $3M+.
BaseballisLife
It has nothing to do with dollar amount.
The Giants determined he does not have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make their roster.
No team claimed him on waivers so other teams also determined he doesn’t have “sufficient skill or competitive ability” to make their rosters.
Case closed.
Blackpink in the area
It’s really not about what he’s worth. It’s just a question of if he’s good enough to be on the roster and it’s a clear yes. The Giants messed up here.
stymeedone
So you would bench Chapman so Davis can play
Blackpink in the area
Davis doesn’t have to prove he’s a starter just worthy of a roster spot
CKinSTL
It will be interesting to see how this is interpreted. The wording is so broad. “Failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability”… relative to what?
I imagine that the Giants would argue it is relative to their other options for that roster spot. Davis does not have sufficient skill to overtake the starting 3B job from Matt Chapman.
Of course Davis and MLBPA are going to interpret that much differently.
I agree that this will probably go in favor of Davis or they will come to some settlement where he gets a large majority.
Blackpink in the area
He doesn’t have to prove he’s better than Chapman just prove he’s worth a roster spot. And since he was a starter last year it’s clear he is at least worthy of a bench role.
JoeBrady
“Failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability”… relative to what?
===========================
That’s my take as well. He exhibited enough skill that the SFG wanted to pay him $6.5M.
NV_Joeby
Wonder if JD understood this could be a possibility. The world knew the Giants wanted Chapman, but JD took his case to arbitration and won which set up the possibility that the team could outright him and pay a fraction of his salary. Should have taken the Giants’ offer and the money would have been guaranteed. If he didn’t see this coming, his representation did him a massive disservice. Brutal.
YankeesBleacherCreature
No one can predict this stuff as market conditions are fluid. Davis did what he could only control at the time. It’s doubtful that he wasn’t aware of the caveats of going into battle in the arb room.
Qrusher
Maybe if they hadn’t waited to the 11th hour to offer a deal. Gave him no time to decide if he wanted to take that deal. . They could have offered it to the him earlier and JD even said he would have taken the offer if they had given it to him earlier. Maybe they were looking for an out like this if th ey signed Chapman, but not a great look for SF…
gdjohnson
The giants won’t be stupid. They will pay the full contract without a grievance being filed.
Manfred’s playing with the balls
Zaidi is ruthless. They’re going with Ahmed over Luciano based on ST stats but they’re cutting JD based on his performance since arbitration? Doesn’t add up
disadvantage
They’re not cutting JD based on his salary or performance. They are cutting him since they signed a better 3B last week, leaving no where for JD to play.
Manfred’s playing with the balls
Nice try disadvantage but JD can play multiple positions. The giants could’ve bumped him down the defensive spectrum but they chose to play games. Zaidi is the same guy who signed Carlos Correa to a huge deal before backing out too.
He is a horrible POBO who pays cheap prices for bottom tier talent. Giants won’t win anything for years to come, like most years
disadvantage
“JD can play multiple positions”
Yes, he CAN play other positions, but as a right-handed bat, he is redundant and not in a position to receive a lot of ABs.
– 3B and DH – Full-time RHHs, so JD offers no platoon advantages
– 1B – Wade Jr. (LHH) can platoon with a righty, and the team chose Flores
– 1B/3B backup – Again, Flores fits this role
– LF – He’s certainly near the bottom of the depth chart there, and under fellow RHHs like Matos and Slater
“Zaidi is the same guy who signed Carlos Correa to a huge deal before backing out too”
First, decisions on a player’s medical reports are a team effort. Second, if Zaidi is the bad guy, then why did the Mets do the exact same thing? And why did the Twins structure his deal to protect themselves in case of injury? This feels like it is supposed to be a “gotcha”, but I don’t agree with its efficacy since it doesn’t really paint Zaidi any differently than any of the other executives involved.
“He is a horrible POBO who pays cheap prices for bottom tier talent”
The Giants (1) paid more money for a 3B to improve at the position, and (2) the Giants spent the second most this offseason to the Dodgers. They also paid a lot of money last offseason for several top 50 FAs (Conforto, Haniger, Manaea, Stripling, re-signed Joc, Taylor Rogers), for better or worse, so I don’t really understand why this narrative is so popular.
Candlestoked
The Giants haven’t decided on Ahmed yet.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Back to Flushing?
Canosucks
@AgeeHarrelsonJones As a long time Mets fan Mets should be all over
this! Eppler’s horrible trade for Darin Duff!
Jdt8312
As a long time Mets fan myself, the Mets shouldn’t touch him. We traded him because he wasn’t productive for us. Just because the return was garbage, doesn’t mean trading him was the wrong decision.
orangenblackattack
If JD signs elsewhere for any less that $5.79M, he should absolutely file a grievance. He doesn’t fit the description of “players who have “failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability.” Though that might be an accurate description of most the free agents the Giants signed last year…
-bob-
This is really not “The Giants Way” of doing things. They used to have much more class, and in fact, overpaid players. This was a Farhan debacle all the way.. And they still need starters!
PoopMonster
For being a big market team, the Giants are leagues behind the Dodgers, Yanks, even the Phils. Huge fan base, nice ballpark, yet they build teams like the Mariners & Marlins.
mlb fan
“For being a big market team..Mariners & Marlins.”…First off, SF is so small it doesn’t have a separate city and county like most CA cities. SF is the city and the county. Second off, you do realize the Giants have won 3 World Series since the Yankees last won one. And you have to go back to the 80’s for the last time the Dodgers won a FULL YR World Series. And how many WS have the Mariners ever won?
LordD99
SF is a major market. They are a failed team as constructed. Feel free to think they’re a better run and more successful organization than the Dodgers.
bag o ballz
the dodgers were run essentially the same way after their collapse into failure – the one difference is money – the dodgers have way more owners with way more money than the giants do and have leveraged that in both the front office and on the field. they have flexed money for years to get what they want even in the farm system by taking on contracts for picks, acquiring guys and extending them with the pocketbook. honestly it is kind of impossible for any team to compete organizationally with a large scale investment group like that that can leverage losses the way they do –
TellItGoodbye
Let’s see, the Giants have won 3 World Series championships in the last 14 years. The Dodger$ have won ONE full-season WS title in the past 59 years. Yeah, that’s a real well run team.
LordD99
History shows that spending money does not guarantee success. The Dodgers spend, but they also hire very intelligent people, and they’ve built excellence from the top down. The Giants, who have access to wealth through their market nd having wealthy ownership, unfortunately falls short on the baseball intelligence side. The Dodgers have both. Giants fans should not be so forgiving of their team.
LordD99
Let’s see, @tellitgoodbye, the Kansas City Royals, regarded as one of the worst-run organizations in the sport, have won a World Series more recently than the Giants, so thus by your definition they’re a better run organization than the Giants!
If you believe the Giants are some small-market team with a can-do attitude, guess again. They have access to a lot of money, but they’ve deployed it quite poorly over the last decade. Sounds like Giants fans are giving their team a pass, which means you’re not going to win another title for a long time.
TellItGoodbye
I never said they were a well run org. I was saying well run doesn’t necessarily equate to success. Hopefully some of the young pitchers and hitters pan out soon because you’re right that SF has not been doing so great developing high draft picks the last 10 yrs or so.
bag o ballz
You are referring to free agents that had nothing to do what I am talking about
bag o ballz
What a stupid comment, if you think the fans have anything to do with front office decisions you are living in Fantasyland.
Candlestoked
@poop I’m not going to sit here and argue with a poop monster but the Yankees have been a pretty poopy team for a good long time. Meh park, ho hum team and very little to show for all the money they throw around.
cheapseater
Serious q: has anyone gotten comment from the Giants’ union rep (Wade?)?
Blackpink in the area
The entire Giants offseason has been a mess. This is the kind of thing that legitimately should get a GM fired. I like the Giants franchise as a Cardinals fan I saw them a lot growing up and they always had class and played hard. But the last few years under this Zaidi have been ugly. This guy needs to go.
bag o ballz
why what did pete putila do?
mlb fan
“Has been a mess”..Faux outrage much?…I think most Giants fans think they and Zaidi had an excellent off season. Personally, I’m not the biggest Zaidi fan, but it will be nice to see at least one competitive team in California’s Bay Area.
Candlestoked
@mlb Niners?
astick
Perfect fit for the Reds as a 26th man.
Roger Beshen's Patented FootballSlider
Wow so essentially cut over $350,000 difference. Doesn’t this make the Giants look bad to other players?
bag o ballz
you are misreading the situation
TellItGoodbye
No, the opposite. It makes Davis look either like a fool or greedy. Giants win either way. Problem child gone.
DarkSide830
I doubt the Giants cut him because of 350K. They cut him because he was making more than they wanted him to for a bench player. They probably would have been fine paying him 6.9 to start, but along came Chapman. JD meanwhile gets a few extra thousand in 30 day guarantee money out of holding out for 6.9m
TellItGoodbye
No, they didn’t cut him for $350,000, he cut himself. He should’ve accepted their overly generous offer in the first place.
disadvantage
@goodbye
Davis did nothing wrong in advocating for himself. And based on him winning the arb case, $6.9mm was deemed a fair price by more than just Davis’ party. It was just horrible timing on his part that he was replaced by a better player.
Buff Barnacles
Blue Jays!!! Triple AAA system in Buffalo has great coaching and conditioning. Get some extended Spring Training then join the big club at some point.
Good luck Mr Davis!!
Ptizzy
There is a lot of contentious posts on what will happen if a grievance is filed. I can’t say what will happen if JD’s team does file one, but I do know the contract language for “exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability” is under 7(b)(2) of the CBA. That section is the rules for termination by the club and places the determination at the discretion of team management. This same citation is referenced in the language on Spring Training termination pay.
Zippy the Pinhead
If Luis Urias is hurt more than we think, it’s not a bad pickup for the Mariners, although they certainly won’t pay more than they have to.
oldgfan
Mariners prolly don’t want him.
Seeing how they are Zaidi’s favorite trade partners, there would have been a deal.
kokopelli365
First of all the article says they ‘could’ file a grievance, not that they will. It would have been in the Giants best interest to keep him until the final minutes of ST just in case another team had an injury, thus increasing his value. My understanding is the Giants & Davis camp agreed on this outcome which would give JD an opportunity to sign where he wants as a FA and to give him some time to shop himself. If this is the case – I don’t see a grievance filed, Giants pay $1.1 milly & he moves on at his leisure.
Mikenmn
He might (might) have some success with his grievance. He’s the same player he was last year, the same guy they offered arb to. I wonder if the Giants don’t settle on a number with him. Less than full, more that 1/6.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Why purposely leave out the second part of that revision?
“failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the team.”
That second part seems quite key
San Farhancisco
So you’re saying the Gi’aints are going to use the money to sign Blake Snell now? Yes, do it!
oldgfan
With all the aces breaking down all over the league, Snell will probably continue to hold out for a multi year deal.
foppert2
Pavlovic is saying Angels in the next day or two. Referred to a cryptic “interesting negotiation”
oldgfan
Just heard that too.
Be interesting to see how many years.
I’m guessing 5/160.
609Collectibles
Giants need bats why didn’t they just keep him? Could play 1B, LF & DH. Seems like they gambled and lost.
farscott
Based on the CBA terms that explicitly states that this applies to players who have “failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability”, the MLBPA will likely go to war over this as it greatly weakens the guaranteed money of the sport and would surely decrease the number of players willing to go to an arbitration hearing should the partial payment stand.
I also would like to know what determines “failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability” and who makes that determination. If you just won the arbitration hearing, that would appear to definitively demonstrate the player “exhibited sufficient skill or competitive ability” especially as the team offered a contract that led to the hearing. Hard to argue he is no good a few months after being tendered a contract and winning an arbitration hearing with no adverse performance demonstrated.
I am not an attorney, but common sense says Mr. Davis will get his full salary from the Giants. How many hoops he and his team need to jump through to do so is unknown at this time.
Ptizzy
The Uniform Player Contract contends in the termination section:
By Club
7.(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player shall at any time:
(1) fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the
standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship or to keep himself in first-class physical condition or to obey the Club’s training rules; or
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team;
This would be the contract language that needs to be considered in a grievance. It explicitly states it is the opinion of Club’s management. I could find no reference to disputing the management’s opinion, though I am no tort lawyer.
User 401527550
They offered him salary arbitration. That is them saying that he was in their opinion his ability was good enough to be on their team.
Ptizzy
Opinions can change. Rule 7.2.b is the basis of termination. If they are unable to terminate the contract, Davis can force them to keep him on the roster. If he can be terminated, then termination pay applies. That amount is based on when the termination occurred and if there was an agreement between the parties on a contract amount, which arbitration is not.
Pads Fans
“failed to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the team.”
The Roller
Ahhhh…paging MR DIPOTO
Run don’t walk to sign this guy!
Brad Scott
Here’s hoping Davis wins his grievance … the clueless Giants deserve to lose his $7MM.
norcalblue
This is a very bad look for the Giants. I suspect JD wins the grievance and finds a team that needs his services. He’ll be fine.
Pads Fans
In section 7 of the UPC it says
(2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team;
Canosucks
Mets should be ALL over bringing him back!
LLGiants64
Let me see… tell me again why fewer and fewer free agents want to sign with the Giants and play for this GM? There must be something….
TigersLoveCinnamon
Fewer free agents? They’ve spent more than anyone except the dodgers this off-season. Stop believing these baseless claims
User 401527550
Baseless claims? Have you missed all the articles with the free agents declining more money not to go to San Fran? Jd Martinez still doesn’t have a contract and he still doesn’t want to go there.
williemaysfield
They signed 5 of the top 40 free agents last season and 4 of the top 40 this season. Who cares what JD Martinez says or does.
disadvantage
@mets
If you’re going to try to make that point, you should’ve used a better player. I’m sure if the Giants hadn’t closed the door on JD Martinez by signing Soler, he’d love to sign the contract for less money/years than he’d hoped for that he originally rejected from them.
And if not, unless he could point to specific characteristics with the Giants that are markedly worse than any other team, that’s more an indictment on Martinez than the Giants.
User 401527550
Obviously the Giants cared what he said or did. They wanted him and he flipped them the bird.
User 401527550
A better player than JD Martinez? Ok Aaron Judge. Doesn’t get better than that. Do you want the whole list of people that said no to San Fran?
User 4223176798
With what results? They shopped the bargain bin. If they took the money of those 5 last year and used it for one quality player they not only would still have the player this year to build on but also saved a few bucks. Hanniger, Conforto, Pederson, Stripling, Manea. Fail. About $75M for one year for those five clowns.
disadvantage
@Mets
No, I want you to back up your claim that “free agents declining more money not to go to San Fran” as evidence that players don’t want to play in SF. Individual players are unreliable for that because they may have their own reasons for wanting to play for another team unrelated to SF.
Aaron Judge is another terrible example of a player not wanting to play in SF. He wanted to be a Yankee for life. But don’t take my word for it, take his: “That ($360mm offered by the Yankees) was enough for me. If all I was doing was chasing money, I could’ve gone to another team who had a higher offer. But New York is where I wanted to finish my career”.
But go on about how Judge is an example of how FA’s don’t want to sign with SF. Sorry he does not fit your narrative.
disadvantage
@True Giants Fan
The team was not one quality players away from contention, though. Ask a team like the Angels, or even last year’s Mets, how supplementing a bad team with one quality player doesn’t guarantee victory.
And if your contention is with Zaidi, it’s not as though the Giants were notorious free spenders until he took over. Here, let me remind you of Brian Sabean’s famous 10-pack quote: “If we had signed (Vlad) Guerrero or Sheffield, we would have been without Brower, Eyre, Herges, Hermanson, Tomko, Pierzynski, Feliz, Snow, Hammonds, Mohr and Tucker–obviously not being able to field a competitive team, especially from an experience standpoint, given our level of spending.”
– If Zaidi had said that, fans would come after him with pitchforks. Also, at least Zaidi’s dumpster diving has returned a few good players. Most of those players Sabes mentioned were not very good.
foppert2
You been asleep this off season ?
Candlestoked
I read asinine comments like this one and fear for our country’s future!
DeepDownSouth
Would love to see my White Sox sign him, but his his generally lower salary might bankrupt ownership. LOL. I don’t blame Reinsdorf as the total 100% blame for roster restrictions bc the rest of owners do have a say. If I’m not mistaken (please correct me anyone) but he has only like 10/15% controlled interest in team ownership. But saying that a $6.9 million investment would make him like the 4th or 5th best player on the team would strain owners pocketbook is asinine.
PutPeteinthehall
He’s cut and sent packing. Probably ends up signing for half of what he was making and the Giants end up paying the rest. No team wanted to take him on without a salary swap.
williemaysfield
Giantsxon the hook for about 1.2m. Thats it. Read the article
Wolf Hoffmann
Giants are stupid. Why take the man to arbitration if you are gunning to replace him. $7 million flushed down the toilet.
gravel
If only someone addressed these points somewhere in the article.
williemaysfield
Lol
radhippo
Filthy move by the Giants
JackStrawb
Why? Rules of the game, comrade.
radhippo
Sure, but still dirty
JackStrawb
Why? They improved, and had a way to save close to 6 million.
Unless you kids changed filthy to mean smooooth.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
So if Chapman gets injured, what is their plan B? 7 million is not a lot at all in this day and age.
oldgfan
Flores
bag o ballz
actually it would probably be schmitt and fitzgerald. Schmitt will most likely start in AAA but fitzgerald will probably make the roster since he can be a backup IF/OF and had a good showing last year and during spring
bag o ballz
plan B is someone who doesn’t have to be on the roster, with 26 guys Davis would have been the 27th guy –
GarryPhillips
A lot of presumed legal experts on this thread.
Pads Fans
A lot of people forming an opinion without reading the full clause in the UPC on termination.
ckc12537
would love to see him come back to houston.
JoeBrady
The RS should take a look as well, depending on price. He should be better than Dalbec, and maybe much better.
Mustard Tiger
I just listed to David Samson’s podcast (former President of the Miami Marlins) and he addressed the JD Davis situation. It’s cut and dried–Davis will get $1.1 million from the Giants in severance per the CBA (30 days of pay). And he will get whatever contract he negotiates with another team. The Giants released him at this time because two days later they would have been on the hook for a 45 day severance.
Davis is not getting $6.9 million unless he negotiates a contract with another team for $5.8 million. The Giants have no legal obligation to pay more than $1.1 million.
I don’t care what some of the armchair lawyers here think. I’m betting David Samson knows the CBA better than they do.
Ptizzy
It seems the Giants players, including former union rep and current executive subcommittee member Austin Slater, have said it seems unfair. But no one was publicly indicating he should file a grievance.
The optics behind it does not put Farhad in a great light. Waited until the final hours before submitting a offer to Davis, not negotiating after the arbitration numbers were submitted, and waiting until the last moment to place him on waivers and subsequently releasing him. Everything is done to the letter of the contract, though the spirit of it does look to have been manipulated. I do think it will give pause to future players, but they have faith in their agents to negotiate the best deal for them against a party seeking to minimize obligations.
williemaysfield
Team policy to not negotiate. They didn’t single out davis. The fact he couldn’t give him away is proof he was overpaid. Davis decided to risk a guaranteed 6.3m in a chance to get an extra 600k. He gambled and lost.
Buzz Saw
Murphys law coming up. Soler will get hurt in April and they will wish they kept him.
TtheG
JD and his agent should not be mad at the Giants. They should be mad at Scott Boras.