March 9: The Blue Jays have now officially announced Votto’s signing.
March 8: Joey Votto is in agreement with the Blue Jays on a minor league deal with an invite to major league camp, pending a physical. The MVP Sports Group client would reportedly lock in a $2MM base salary if he makes the MLB roster with another $2MM available via incentives.
It’s a pairing that fans in Toronto have been dreaming about for a long time, as Votto grew up in the city of Etobicoke, which was amalgamated into the city of Toronto in 1998. For most of the past two decades, Votto has been mashing for the Reds and becoming a fan favorite with his unique personality while Blue Jays fans looked south of the border with envy, hoping that the local legend would someday return home.
But back in 2012, Votto signed a 10-year extension with the Reds that ran through 2023. That pact only just expired a few months ago with Cincy turning down a 2024 club option and the Reds didn’t really have much ability to keep him around. They have recently graduated a big pile of position player prospects and came into the winter with Christian Encarnacion-Strand, Jonathan India, Tyler Stephenson and Spencer Steer as first base options, then they added to that group by signing Jeimer Candelario.
That pushed Votto to pursue opportunities outside Cincinnati for the first time in his career. The Blue Jays were connected to Votto fairly early on, both due to his hometown ties and the roster fit. The Jays came into the winter with very few left-handed bats on the roster and also an open designated hitter spot thanks to the free agent departure of Brandon Belt. Votto also drew some reported interest from the Angels but now the long-awaited Votto-Blue Jays pairing has finally come to fruition.
However, the Votto that is now heading to Jays’ camp isn’t quite the same one that won an MVP award and earned six All-Star nods in the previous decade. He’s been battling a significant shoulder injury of late, undergoing surgery in 2022. Over the past two years, he’s played just 156 games and hit .204/317/.394 in that time for a wRC+ of 95. His 11.5% walk rate in that time was still a few ticks above average but below Votto’s career rate of 15.6%. He was also struck out in 25.7% of his plate appearances over those two seasons, well above his career clip of 18.8%.
With Votto now beyond his 40th birthday and coming off a couple of injury-marred seasons, it’s fair to wonder what he has left in the tank at this point, but it’s a fun and logical pairing for the two sides nonetheless. Votto gets a chance to play for his hometown team while the Jays could find lightning in a bottle if Votto is able to put the shoulder issues behind him and get back to his old self. He has 356 home runs in his career and has slashed .294/.409/.511 overall for a wRC+ of 145.
Votto won’t need to get back all the way to MVP form to be a useful contributor for the Blue Jays, but the roster fit may be a bit tight. The Jays have Vladimir Guerrero Jr. as their everyday first baseman and they signed Justin Turner to be in the designated hitter slot most days. Turner can still play a bit of third base but he’s now 39 years old and hasn’t been an everyday fielder since 2021.
It’s possible Votto could carve out a part-time role wherein he can serve as the DH whenever Turner is in the field or perhaps give Guerrero the occasional breather by playing first base, as Belt did last year. He will have some competition from Daniel Vogelbach, who is also lefty that the Jays signed to a minor league deal. Vogelbach is almost strictly a DH, as he didn’t play the field at all in 2023 and logged just five innings at first base in 2022. But he has been having a decent spring so far, having hit two home runs and drawn three walks in 15 plate appearances, leading to a wonky slash line of .250/.400/.833.
Vogelbach is 31 years old and thus far younger than Votto but Votto’s longer track record and ability to play a bit of first base could give him an edge. His defensive metrics have been subpar in the past two years but has racked up 54 Defensive Runs Saved in his career overall. Similar to his offense, perhaps some better health as he gets further from his shoulder surgery could help him. The club likely can’t fit both on the roster as they’ll need at least one bench spot for a catcher and then two more for multi-positional guys like Davis Schneider, Santiago Espinal or Ernie Clement. But having one part-time lefty in mix makes sense as the only lefties currently slated for regular action in the Toronto lineup are glove-first outfielders Daulton Varsho and Kevin Kiermaier as well as utility player Cavan Biggio.
Votto is an XX(B) free agent, which is any player with at least six years of service time that finished the previous season on a major league roster or injured list. Under the current collective bargaining agreement between MLB and the MLBPA, such players have uniform opt-out dates in any minor league deal signed more than 10 days prior to Opening Day. Those dates are five days before Opening Day, May 1 and June 1.
This year’s Opening Day is March 28, meaning Votto will have a chance to return to free agency if the Jays don’t add him to the roster by March 23, which is in just over two weeks. Vogelbach doesn’t have six years of service time and won’t have guaranteed opt-outs, though it’s unknown if he had any added into the language of his contract.
Votto tells C. Trent Rosecrans and Kaitlyn McGrath of the Athletic that while he’ll report to Jays camp on Saturday, he expects to open the season at Triple-A Buffalo. That suggests he’s not planning to exercise the first of the opt-out dates provided by the CBA.
Vogelbach also has a base salary of $2MM if he makes the club so the financial element of the decision will be a wash. The Jays are set to be a second-time payor of the competitive balance tax this year, which means they will face a 30% tax on that $2MM whether it comes from Votto or Vogelbach, but that will add just $600K to their tax bill.
The next few weeks will give Votto a chance to display his health and current abilities to the club before decisions need to be made. For the time being, it’s an exciting pairing for Blue Jay fans that they have long waited for.
ESPN’s Buster Olney first reported the Jays and Votto had agreed to a minor league deal with a big league Spring Training invite. Shi Davidi of Sportsnet reported the financial terms.
Retire
No. This is awesome
Travis – He was just interviewed yesterday during the ESPN Braves game and really emphasized how much he misses baseball and wanted to sign with a team. So happy for him, I really liked his straightforward and candid personality.
Joey V is a true baseball treasure/a pure delight. I’m hoping he can make it back to MLB and get some regular planning time. I’d go out of my way to watch that.
When the time comes, I hope his love for the game will have him in the broadcast booth. The man is a trip.
This is actually blowing my mind a bit
Votto hit 14 Hr in 200 ab and hit .897 ops vs. lefties while being hurt. Even if he is still hurt that production is not bad .
I still can’t believe the Reds didn’t have room on their roster for a veteran, LH bat with a lighthearted presence that will go down as one of the all time great Reds. IMO it’s one of the “find room on the roster” situations for the player, the fans, and the franchise.
There’s no roster room for feel-good stories or tired, old veterans if a team is trying to win now in a very winnable division.
Geez. Now is Vottos HOF Jersey will be a blue jay.
Votto would be much better as a bench player. Seeing glavine, smoltz and wainwright trying to pitch like they were 30 in the last year wasn’t the greatest.
They needed the space for Marte
Reds ain’t winning the central period. Great joke though
A win-now team needs that veteran voice. They don’t have many. I’ve looked at that roster and there’s room. They still are contemplating guys like Duvall in FA(yes I know an OF). Marte just got popped for PEDs. All moot considering Vottos a Blue Jay.
I only project Cubs to edge Reds by one game, and that is with Belli in and Marte out
No. The signing is silly.
Ron is upset. This basically takes us out of the trade market for Acuna jr.
He’ll probably play five more years in the minors, thats how much he loves playing.
As a part time matchup hitter I think he has at least a couple good years left. Hopefully the Jays give him a while to get used to the new league.
That would actually be a great story, but I don’t see it happening.
Killjoy.
@pfog DOWNVOTED
Agreed. Good for Votto to love the game this much.
pbfog – go away
How could you even watch baseball and not enjoy Joey Votto?
100%. He always has a smile on his face.
SourBob
I think Joey Votto is a personality that some like and others do not. He is a hard worker and a borderline hall of famer, I will say just barely in.
Retire from commenting. Clearly past your prime.
He can’t be past something he never had. His milk was already sour.
Are you kidding me? If someone is willing to take him, why wouldn’t he play? He’s got another 35+ years in his retirement window, but his playing window is all but closed. The blue jays risk nothing with a minor l ague, Votto gets a shot, what’s not to like? I wonder though, if he actually intends to honor the Minor League deal. I could see him walking away if he doesn’t go North.
Good thing he isn’t a Dodger, all the Votto locos would have gone ape s.hit.
Viva La Raza!!!!!!
Oh dry up, troll.
He’s only about a decade too late. Ahahaha
Why can’t great players look at their stats and go “wow, guess its over…. I’m not going to embarrass myself.”
I understand it’s hard for many aging players to admit their playing days are all but over. If you want to read a great book about aging athletes, check out “Everybody’s All-American” by Frank DeFord.
Have you ever heard of Dave Winfield, the big Hurt Frank Thomas and what happened when they signed with the Jays in their twilight years, nothing much except lead the team in hitting. Yep, those veterans aren’t good. lol Votto is now a Jay and there would be a lot of egg on the faces of those that hate the move and many will be forced to eat crow on these boards. lol
@pbfog Seems right. —Go home, Walking Man. You’re going to the Hall of Fame, first ballot, Don’t spit on the ‘one team’ premium just to hit .125/.250/125 in 16 PA for the Jays.
Could Votto be the first player in history to play himself OUT of the Hall of Fame? Has to happen eventually, in our infinite universe.
@JackStrawB That’s just ridiculous through and through.
I think Madison Bumgarner was a borderline hall of famer due to post season heroics and he played for the snakes long enough to erase his long shot chance down to zero.
But this is different, Votto will have a couple hundred at bats this year with Blue Jays.
Now if I were Joey, I would have made a deal to play the month of April with the Reds at league minimum and agreed to retire after 25 games if I was not contributing using a predetermined formula. Maybe with Noelvi’s suspension they would have gone for it, but one day too late
So far, Don Mattingly, who stayed two years too long, remains the first.
Here’s to hoping he’ll play himself out of the minor leagues and get the game-winning hit in the seventh game of the 2024 world series.
Pbfog
Why should Votto retire and Vogelbach play? Nothing wrong with friendly competition. It’s Votto’s life. I expect Votto is still better than most team’s 25th player, but not good enough to start for 90% of teams.
Good take.
Where did I say V should play? Oh, that’s a different topic. Good one, Champ.
pbfog
Muted (unnecessarily hostile)
I was pretty sure the Padres would sign Duval or Votto for the league minimum. Duvall makes more sense because he can play 1B or any outfield spot.
Rooting for Votto to have a couple hundred at bats for the Blue Jays hit maybe 10-11 home runs, have an average around 0.229 but a league average OBP. It’s his life.
pbfog
You retire
Votto is almost certainly better at his job than you are at yours
Also, he’s not a jackass – which someone commenting one word, “retire”, about someone else almost certainly is
Whah
I don’t necessarily disagree, but don’t be an ass about it.
Awesome love Joey!
So exciting!!
Whats more exciting: the .202 BA he had last year, or his defense of Negative 25 OAA for his career?
What’s most exciting is that 99% of us have moved past batting average as a barometer of anything meaningful lol
“Past batting average as a barometer”…I saw Hall Of Famer Greg Maddux interviewed recently on MLB Network and he said he considered E.R.A & batting average to be the most important pitching & batting statistics. If you don’t mind, I’ll go with the opinions of a Hofer over some arrogant guy on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM that tries to diminish all opinions not his own.
Greg Maddux is not a scout, GM, or analyst. He’s a pitcher.
“He’s a pitcher”..And what are you, Ted?…Just some opinionated yahoo on “trade rumors”, right?..Again, I’ll go with the opinions of a Hall of Famer over the arrogants on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM. Opinions are like aholes in that every one’s got one.
Of course Maddox would say that. He never walked anybody. In the non-Maddox pitching world we know a walk is nearly as valuable as a single. It’s certainly better to be a .300 hitter with a .400 OBP then a .200 hitter with a .400 OBP, but it’s a lot better to be a .200 hitter with a .400 OBP than a .300 hitter with a .301 OBP.
You mean 99% of clowns & fools. Ahahaha!
wRC+ is a better indicator of a batters performance at the plate than BA.
You forgot the part where, the vast majority also stink!! lol
@mlb
All you’ve done is provided an out of context, paraphrased quote, without even providing a link to the interview. So no, that does not mean a HoF Pitcher automatically agrees with you everytime you make a pro-batting average comment. Sorry.
For example, did Maddux say ERA and BA were important to HIM? As @bill pointed out, he’s a pitch-to-contact pitcher, so he’s was probably way more scared of Tony Gwynn than Mark McGwire, because the percent chance of Gwynn doing damage was greater even if the damage was less severe. And as a pitcher, ERA probably reliably let him know to monitor his performance. The higher his ERA is, the higher the probability of a loss.
I am also going to speculate and suggest he means as an aggregate, and not that a one-off ERA or BA, in any context, are always the most important stats because a HoF pitcher said so. I’d also bet my house that Maddux wouldn’t say, for example, Christian Pache is a better player than Kyle Schwarber, because Pache has a higher batting average.
Maddux played in relative pleistocene era. Stats have evolved.
So you want to go with the terrible OBP, the career low SLG, the negative WARs, the really bad dWARs?
ALL of his stats have sucked for the past 2 years… and he’s over 40. Get a grip on reality.
says the guy trying to diminish other people’s opinions that don’t agree with him
@Travis’ Wood you right here are part of the problem with baseball today. Walks are not as good as singles, its not even close. Walks don’t score runs. They may contribute to keeping the line moving but thats it. These guys now a days have low batting averages because they swing with all their might to try and hit 20 hrs. I’ll take a guy who hits .300 with 10hrs and a .305 OBP over a guy who hits .220 with 20 Hrs and a .310 OBP. That guy batting .300 is going go contribute more to winning games
What is the most important stat for hitters if not batting average?
“wRC+ is a better indicator of a batters performance at the plate than BA.”
Votto’s WRC+ the past two years 89 and 99. So below average. Add in that he’s 40 years old and a terrible defender.
Is any of this sinking in?
@APBS
89 isn’t a starting MBL player obviously. More of a bench bat guy and not a bad one. 99 on the other hand is one point below a league average hitter. That difference is tantamount to a getting another single or even a couple extra walks for him to be exactly s league average hitter.
When you take into account the variance around the average (luckiness for lack of a better term) there isn’t that much a difference between a guy that has a 98 wRC+ and a guy with a 102 wRC+.
Questions?
mlbfan- Yeah, you trust one person and I’ll trust the 30 front offices, vast majority of modern day players, and statisticians with degrees in areas most of us can’t even comprehend.
Bill: I intuit that a single tends to be significantly more valuable than a walk. But I understand that balls in play present other potential negatives. I’d like to see comprehensive, valid data on this.
Ted: Not a relevant comment. You very likely have absolutely no way of knowing how Maddux’s intuition and knowledge in these matters compare to those of scouts, GM’s, and analysts. Maddux could have superior abilities to them all.
Probably not. But maybe.
Jazz- Data tells us. Regression analysis has been conducted on these factors time and time again. Batting average is not useless, but it correlates far less to runs scored than OBP, slugging, wRC+, etc. I know that angers some people, but facts are facts.
Exactly, I’m not an expert. So I listen to those that are, and Maddux isn’t one. I’ll listen to his advice about throwing cutters, not his opinion about projecting future performance and estimating value based on statistics.
myaccount2: How about confirmatory factor analysis?, which is far more reliable than regression, especially if the analyst fails to run Bonferoni adjustments on all p-values in high-input multiple regression models.
Ted: The point is that anyone who blindly assumes that anyone who’s labeled as an “expert” actually is one is ignorant and naive. And gullible.
What is your maximum-likelihood validity evidence that those guys ARE experts on this topic, and Maddux isn’t?
……………Yeah, I thought so. Back to Sheepleville for ya.
myaccount2, I see that someone with zero training in statistics, mathematics, or the scientific method thumb-upped you for absolutely no legitimate reason whatsoever.
Or was that you from one of your other logins?
That’s because, Travis, 99% of you were too untalented and gullible to think for yourselves.
@NoSaint
I see youre comparing Votto to everyone in the league. So glove first middle infielders, etc. Thats not a fair comparison, when your looking at the most offensive position on the diamond. Votto is a poor defending 1B/DH. He should be compared to other poor defenders at 1B/DH. In that case, he is nowhere near league average.
Look at Eric Hosmer, he had a 111 OPS in 2023, and got traded and then released. Now after an even poorer season, he’s retired. Votto only has a job because of his name, he should have retired. I doubt Jays get any value at all out of him.
I am comparing Votto to every other player in the league. When he’s at the plate. That’s what wRC+ measures; offensive contributions. It has absolutely nothing to do with defense.
If you want to look a his defense, then I suggest you look at DRS, OAA, and to a lesser extent UZR/150 (it attempts to evaluate a players defensive ability in smaller sample sizes). Since Votto’s role is highly likely to be a DH with limited action at 1B, I don’t see the need to look at his defensive numbers.
“I am comparing Votto to every other player in the league.”
Yes, and Im telling you thats the wrong way to look at a first baseman or DH. Its like comparing interceptions by a Defensive Back and LBs and DLs. — A DH is suppose to produce more than “league average”, just as a DB would have more interceptions than other players on the defensive side of the team. How are you not getting this?
“I suggest you look at . . .”
I know how to look up defensive stats, the ones you clearly want to avoid. Nice little condescending shot I see.
—————————————————–
This 40 year old, below average hitting, terrible defensive player is useless. He can be easily be replaced by several players from AAA, who can contribute more than just a few abs at defense.
Schneider, Lukes, Horwitz, Clement: Somebody will be down in Triple A that would give more value than Votto.
The topic at hand was his hitting prowess. WRC+ is the best way to measure the offensive component of his game.
You strawman comparing football to baseball is non correlative and not worthy of a response.
The 3 defensive stats (UZR is also good but in larger samples) I mentioned are the standard bearers. If you’re talking things like errors or fielding percentage you don’t have a leg to stand on.
“The topic at hand was his hitting prowess.”
No its not. Its whether a 40 year old, terrible defending below average hitter (based on his last two years) will be beneficial to the Blue Jays. — You just want to dumb it down, because you have no argument to justify him having a job.
————————————
“If you’re talking things like errors or fielding percentage you don’t have a leg to stand on.”
I’ll repost from my first comment: “his defense of Negative 25 OAA for his career” — He’s a terrible defender, I dont care wht metric you use. But, if you want to keep talking about “errors and fielding percentage” maybe you should build a time machine and travel back to 1980.
@APBA
My first post “wRC+ is a better indicator of a batters performance at the plate than BA.” So ya, the topic at hand was his hitting prowess.
My second post was a qualification of the type of player that has an 89 and 99 wRC+. Still about hitting.
Defensively, he ain’t good. But guess what, 1B’ers aren’t good defenders. Christian walker has posted a Def. (Fangraphs) above 0 twice in the last 5 yrs. The only 1B to do that in the span. Vlad is going to get the majority of work at 1B not Votto so Votto’s defense is a non issue ina part time roll.
“My first post “wRC+ is a better indicator of a batters performance at the plate than BA.” So ya, the topic at hand was his hitting prowess.”
——————
Thats all you wanted to talk about? Not Votto. Did I ever once disagree with that point? Lol, go away. You are very simple person.
@APBA
And yet you can’t understand the simplicity g my point. Even after I dumbed it down. Chat soon.
the defense!
I’m pretty sure even if Greg Maddux isn’t a coach, scout or what not that he also had one of the most analytical minds in baseball and proved his method works and certainly knows the game better than any of us on these boards. Dismissing him out of hand is just silly.
Someone said a single is only slightly more valuable than a walk. I would say it’s moderately more valuable because a single will score a reasonable base runner from second.
Also, I have to ask why someone who has a 300/301 ba/opb is more valuable than someone hitting 200/400. As was pointed out, singles are at least a little more valuable than a walk, they both equate to one base but one will actually score a runner and the other won’t unless you have the much less common walk with the bases loaded. However, if the bases ARE loaded you would DEFINITELY prefer a single.
This rebellion against BA has been overemphasized.
@SalaryCapMyth You’re omitting too many critical points to warrant an extended reply, but focusing on singles only misses the larger point, that to get a hit means putting the ball in play, which also means hitting into double plays in a variety of ways (GIDP, line out DP, etc) which means subtracting value from doing other than walking. A little research will tell you the exact run value of a single v a walk (and every other occurrence on the diamond). We even keep track of all this stuff these days.
I’m not omitting to much critical points. I’m being brief and concise. My reasons are sound so feel free to rebut me. But to say that a single is more valuable, particularly with base runners seems pretty logical to me. Fill in as you like and I’ll read it.
Singles can drive in a runner from second.
A walk puts on the force play. Sometimes the defense WANT the walk. Walks will never come close to being as valuable as hits – unless you’re someone who can steal 50+ bags.
Good point. A walk(or single) from Rickey Henderson essentially becomes a double. A walk or single from Mark McGwire becomes a base clog.
Force plays and double plays. I didn’t even bring that aspect up. Good point.
I’d rather see a guy who mashes and adapts to walks because of fear rather than be a walk-first player without the avg hit tool. I still believe if a minor leaguer hits over .300 we should all pay attention. Then adjust to how the league pitches to said hitter.
@its_happening
What is your point in comparing the two, though? Yes singles are better, but they are two entirely separate scenarios. A walk by its nature is a batter receiving four pitches unlikely to produce a positive outcome for the batter.
So unless the batter is taking perfect pitches right down the middle in hopes for a walk (I’ve never seen that at the MLB level), a walk is still very valuable given the 70+% chance of failure as a batter.
Walks are not valuable like hits are. I outlined the point in an earlier message, and I’ll say it again: in some situations, the defense WANT a walk to either set up a double play, the force play or prefer a particular matchup between pitcher and hitter.
Guys who walk and can’t hit normally find success against lesser-than pitchers. Top pitchers who do not walk guys expose bad hitters. That value goes out the window. Plus, a guy who walks should have the hit tool first, meaning that a good hitter should force walks and tentative pitching rather than a guy who cannot hit but “works a walk”.
Great points, its_happening. What you outlined touches upon the very reason that only simpletons (e.g., every single writer here) rely heavily on pitchers’ BB rates without comprehensively controlling for pertinent context.
SalaryCapMyth: You’d prefer a single in almost every instance. The gained-benefits from balls in play supersedes the potential negative outcomes, e.g., GIDP.
🙂
This makes me so happy
he lives 20 minutes or so from Toronto and wants to play… no risk, potential high reward signing. good for everyone.
He’s also coming almost for free! He’s still going to get paid 8mill from Cincinnati
7m, and it was a buyout, so it’s already been paid and has zero effect on any contract he would have taken.
@agree Kotton, but are you concerned Joey Votto might be short on liquidity?
I’m hoping this will be a fun ride for Jays fans, and is an extremely cheap purchase of some seemingly much needed senior management in the 26 man roster…
Actually he was born and grew up in Toronto (borough of Etobicoke is western part of City of Toronto which can be reached in 15 minutes from ball park) not sure where he lives now but he watched games as a teen at Rogers Centre (then called SkyDome), and city has always wanted him to play for team.
Is a veteran bat, with very wise eyes in the batting box going to make a difference off the bench? Yes, reasonable obersevers would agree.
Vogelbach should be kept for depth, at Buffao AAA, if he’ll agree. Unless he totally messes up in next two weeks I would expect Joey to head north with Blue Jays and the sound when he’s introduced will be really something.
I don’t know if Vogelbach would add “depth”, but he certainly would provide some “GIRTH”!
A minor league deal seems like a low bar for Votto. I don’t know, if I were him and that’s all that’s on the table, I would have chosen retirement. Just my two cents.
He’s not gonna actually play in the minors, at least not for long. It’s MLB or bust and this gives them the option of playing Turner at 3B more, moving Vladdy to DH. Getting a high OBP lefty into the lineup could really help.
Fangraphs putting IKF on 3B does not sound right at all.
“Getting a high OBP lefty”…Since when is Votto’s .319 & .314 OBP the last 2 years a “high OBP”?…Especially for a guy with zero speed. Clearly you’re thinking of Joey Votto from several years ago.
I get that but Joey’s been hurt the last two years and he said he finally feels good again this off-season. He changed his approach the second half of 2020 and started swinging for the fences. Look at the 2021 results. They were outstanding. I’m really curious to see what he does this year. Although it will hurt seeing him another uniform while Reds fans will be forced to see Jeimer Candelario take at-bats that could have been his.
No, not hurt, OLD. Its over, move on. The number of players who contribute at age 40 is about 1 in 1,000, and his last 2 years show doubt he’ll be in that rare group.
Well I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
@Seamaholic Putting Turner at 3B will mean the Jays have already gone seriously wrong. He’s about negative 25 OAA there at this point.
It’s a ‘break glass in case of emergencies’ only deal.
JackStraw
You are 100 percent correct, Justin Turner at 3B does not work on a regular basis, the bat is still there, the legs and body just aren’t up to playing 3B except as an emergency.
He has enough money that he doesn’t need to care about the salary. At some point either you have enough money or you will NEVER have enough money. The guy just wants to keep playing. Good for him.
He will get 8mill from the Reds, so he can afford it
He’s said all winter that he wasn’t retiring and didn’t appear like he was on the fence about that decision.
The homecoming everyone saw coming
O, Canada!
Lfg
Crazy Brandon belt just had a much better season than his platform season and he’s probably gonna have to settle for a minor league deal after making 9 million
I’m happy for Joey, but I’m also bummed that he potentially won’t be a lifetime Red. Not really a storybook ending.
Well, he (maybe) gets the chance to play for his home team. I find it a perfect storybook ending for a HOF-bound player.
Doesn’t belong in the HOF, but he’ll get in. Buoyed by the “everyone gets a trophy” generation.
Yeah, the 12th best 1Bman in history by JAWs definitely doesn’t belong.
You are right about the everyone gets a trophy attitude but I think Votto squeaks in on merits. If Votto had post season success – and he did not – he might have even made it comfortably.
Look at this black ink on bref again. Horrible take.
I don’t mean to sound like a dbag but he spent the entirety of his career with one team. He actually has the audacity to ruin the integrity and perfection of that aspect by signing some trivial deal with a random a$s team on a minor league deal at that. If it’s about the money that makes it even worse
Tony Parker did the same thing when he left the Spurs for the Hornets for one year. It’s like, uh, ok?
The audacity?? This is a grown man who clearly loves the *game* of baseball, and gets a chance to play for his home country’s team. Who are we to criticize someone who wants to continue doing what they love
As former manager Bob Lemon said “Baseball was made for kids, and grown-ups only ruin it”. I think we sometimes lose perspective that this is a game at heart. Who wouldn’t want to keep playing a game they love for as long as they desire?
Waldo29, I love dancing and playing pickup basketball. Unfortunately, I’m also a senior citizen with arthritis. Just because you love something doesn’t mean it can happen. The Vottos of the world block paths for younger players. He had his days in the sun. It’s time for him to take a final bow and go home.
Mr. Jerry Atrix….i think you’re incorrect on this one. The young guns don’t deserve to play unless they earn the right to play and bring it every game. I’m tired of your type that would give out a trophy to the D level consolation losers just because they show up.
If Votto brings his game…then he earns the right to mash instead of some super ego privileged kid with a tube of clearacil in his pocket, that was hyped by his junior college team….
Yanks2, then maybe the Reds are the ones to ruin that integrity and perfection…
He wouldn’t be the first.
Dwight Evans spent 19 seasons with the Red Sox before playing one final year with Baltimore. Who doesn’t remember but wishes they could forget Michael Jordan playing for the Wizards? Joe Nameth with the Rams, Joe Montana with the Chiefs and many more
Derek Jeter knew not to do that
Derek Jeter was overrated!
“Derek Jeter was overrated”..Yeah, your injury prone guy Carlos Correa is “better” than Jeter, right? He’s the one who said he’s “better than Jeter”, remember? One guy is in the HOF(Jeter) and the other guy(Correa) will always need a ticket to get in.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
It was just a joke. Who is their right mind would think that Jeter was overrated? It is Friday. Have some fun.
All guys who mange 3,000+ hits in the majors are overrated, right? is that what you are saying?
DrDick: Don’t discount the fact that that was in well over 13,000 PA’s.
A player sticking with only one team enroute to a HOF career is an exception, not the rule. Those are your self-imposed standards and isn’t anyone else’s. Votto wanted to keep playing. The Reds had other plans. Move on.
It’s my opinion. Signing a minor league deal with the Blue Jay’s after spending 17 years with the Reds just doesn’t have the same ring to it as staying with the Reds
@yanks And it’s a trash opinion. Who cares what you think
@MysteryWhite….I’m guessing you consider all opinions not your own to be “trash”, am I right?
Ring, shming. Misspelling Blue Jays is a bigger crime.
He loves to play baseball and isn’t ready to call it quits yet. Who cares if he doesn’t finish his career with the same team.
Not to sound like a dbag, but *enter all the dbaggy things*
Imagine advertising that you’re this much of a goof.
A random team? He’s from Toronto.
It’s not really some “random team” when it’s his hometown team. If it were the A’s, Nationals, or Rockies, it’d be some random team. This is his hometown team and a playoff contender. Hardly random.
The dude wasn’t ready to retire. Nothing wrong with what he did.
you don’t know much about ball feller. I am assuming that because you have a Yanks in your screen name.
the reds GM pretty much came out and said he wasn’t gonna resign him or let him come back. Votto feels he has gas left in the tank. so it’s his decision. would he want to come back to Cincy? I Imagine. Let him do what he wants.
He’s a borderline HOF feller.
I have similar feelings but they’re more directed at the Reds front office who said there wasn’t any room for Joey at the beginning of the off-season and then they continue to sign Candelario who hit around .250 and was non-tendered a couple years back. Not to mention Votto is healthy again.
Yanks2: What no one is saying (because The Thought Police won’t let them even think it) is that the Jays signed Vitto ONLY because he’s Canadian. In other words, they were motivated by a form of abject bigotry.
Why is that on the player? He should retire becuase the Reds didn’t offer him a contract? The Reds could have given him the same minor league contract. He was willing to re-sign. The Reds chose to sever the relationship.
Love this for both sides. Hope he has a great last season like Albert Pujols did
Happy for him and sad at the same time.
Happy he gets to play for the hometown team, sad the Reds botched the end of his run there like they do most of their long time vets.
I don’t see how they botched anything. I love Joey Votto and have appreciated his career with the Reds, but there just isn’t any room for him on the roster.
Who would you bump to give Votto another year? Even with Steer’s move to OF, you have CES, India, EDLC, McLain, Marte, and Candelario, I’m not bumping any of those guys for another year of a 40 year old that barely crossed the Mendoza line the last two years.
They signed Candelario AFTER they did not resign Votto because they allegedly had no room for him. Then they sign Candelario who is really a DH due to his defense. So yes, despite the revisionist history, they botched the way they treated him.
I didn’t really think Candelarios defense was all that bad at first base. Maybe a little below average at third.
The Reds did the right thing with Votto. They’re a young up-and-coming team with a crowded roster of position players. They would have been stupid to pay him the full $20 million when they can use the $13 million extra to sign some pitchers, as they did.
Like @this one belongs said, they signed Candelario after they said they didn’t have room for Votto. There was room for Votto.
Wasn’t like that. They could have paid him to leave then brought him back on the deal the Jays gave him.
Sometimes, you just have to say goodbye.
Super stoked that he signed with Canada’s team. Highlight of the free agency period. Unfortunately
I’ve never liked Votto because he always comes off as a huge jerk. Great player, don’t get me wrong but an extreme hot head.
I remember Rizzo looking at him and laughing when he was having a temper tantrum in the dugout. Votto got even more mad and wanted to fight Rizzo.
Really? He’s one of the nicest and most down to earth players in the game. You can’t judge someone off of a singular moment in their career,
It wasn’t a singular moment… remember him glaring at a fan that went after a foul ball in a meaningless game?
Votto is hilarious, if you don’t like him for things like that you’re just a joyless person
The only meaningless games are in spring training.
And yes, I remember. He apologized and took photos and signed balls for him shortly after it happened..
Here’s what transpired:
“He was generous enough to apologize at the time and afterwards,” Votto said after the game. “In retrospect, he’s not the one who should be apologizing. I should be apologizing. He’s just trying to catch a ball, and here I am bullying him.”
Votto has been awesome on and off the field. He’s competitive and a team player. Not being able to catch a foul ball for an out due to fan interference could easily mean another extra 7-10 pitches for the guy on the mound.
The google begs to differ on how awesome Joey Votto is.
Awesome for the Reds PR department to make Votto sign autographs.
Outside of the 2020 season, the Reds have played 1296 meaningless games since 2014.
Votto played baseball as if it were hockey, with intensity. That spark will help the Blue Jays, as will his effect on the other team when he comes off the bench as a critical juncture.
Just for boredom sakes, I threw it in to the ol google machine and apparently many people agree and there are many instances of Votto being a jerk…
Apparently, Votto has such a reputation of being a jerk he made an excuse for it “being extremely introverted”
Well, Rizzo IS the posterior of Mr. Ed.
At least it’s not Johnny Unitas in San Diego. But couldn’t they have figured this out the first week of January?
love the reference.
I don’t think the HOF players are that stupid to not put Pujols in the HOF. But if they do, that’s a big black eye for the BBWAA.
No way Pujols doesn’t get in on his first try
How many years now has this been a possibility? Pretty cool!
Nice knowing you Daniel Vogelbach.
Vogelbach is slugging .800 right now in ST
“Vogelbach is slugging. 800″…Did you say “slugging” or weighing?
With that kind of humor, are you 10 years old? Did you ask parental permission before using the Internet?
Vogelbach has one tool, and an unreliable one at that. So who cares if he’s hitting .800 in Spring when he can make second base standing on first when the batter hits a triple. You read that correctly.
Votto posted recently that he misses playing ball. If there were no MLB offers than this is the next best alternative.
Votto is still a viable ballplayer and fans will go see him in the minors.
Happy he’s still playing, entertaining and hopefully doing more fun interviews.
Why are they thinking about not putting Pujols in?
The depressing years from 2012-2022. A lot of people see Pujols that way, and I am sad.
LMFAO !!!!!!! That’s got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. His decline years weren’t even that bad. He was still hitting over 20 bombs a year with Los Angeles
Even if he had 5 of his 10 amazing seasons, I’d still put him in the Hall of Fame
2021, not 2022 (facepalm)
He batted .256/.311/.448.
That isn’t HOF standards.
And some people don’t have their brain inputted properly when they ignore his monster years from 2001-2011.
Not sure why this took so long, they didn’t try to get better this offseason so atleast get more fun and likable.
Because Votto and his agent thought they could land an MLB contract somewhere.
When Mauer caught, he was the best catcher in the game on both sides of the ball.
Plot twist- he’s going to be used as a relief pitcher.
If a player wants to continue playing he totally should regardless of whether if it was for the same team or not. Saying a player is ruining his legacy is ridiculous. Focus that anger on his former team, not the player.
Happy that Votto finally gets to play for his true hometown team.
He’s just trolling, he posts this same nonsense on a lot of articles.
Me or him?
The Former_Player
Jonny5: He’s right about Mauer.
Catchers have different standards because catchers’s bodies deteriorate faster than the average position player. The same could be said with relief pitchers, but I guess the HOF hates relief pitchers.
Clofreesz: Obviously. But even controlling for all of that, Mauer is still a borderline HOF’er at best, especially considering the significant amount of time that he spent not-at-catcher.
Guy’s gonna rake in Toronto’s bandbox of stadium.
Just curious, do you ever form an opinion uses data or facts?
@Dustyslambchops23
I do, if you follow my posts. Have you heard of FRA for pitchers? Or using K% to evaluate future success for batters? Probably not. Oh well…
Lol ah yes the ol k% to hitters park ratio
@Dustyslambchops23
After 1 minute of dealing with you, it doesn’t seem you understand baseball. Did you just start being a fan this year?
Im not going to get in to a back and forth with you because you’re more a pro down at that level so let’s just see if you can back up your opinion
rogers center park factor was neutral across the board overall and in fact trended towards pitcher park in certain key categories.
So please mister stat man, back up the bandbox statement
@Dustyslambchops23
The fact that you’re basing it off 1 season isn’t surprising. Most fans don’t understand long-term trends. They’re more focused on the current season.
Now, if you want to draw conclusions on 1 season, let’s also look at the fact that a net gain of 24 more HRs were produced in 2023 with the changes to the outfield than would have left the park in 2022 or earlier.
sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/roof-renos-or-balls-why-h…
But why was it one of the top offensive environments from 2011 – 2015?
Anyway, my statement wasn’t to be taken serious but it seems you went that way for the sake of, as you put it “back and forth” arguments.
I based it off one season because they did a renovation last year and changed the dimensions of the park lol.
Also in 2011-2015 its park factors were 3-4 % max above neutral, so even that doesn’t confirm your ‘bandbox’ comment.
Lastly in the 9 years since it has not been in the top 10 in offensive park factors, congrats on having to go back 14 years to find a 3% shift to valid your opinion lol.
You’re a dunce bucko
So, you ask me to present actual historical data and all you can do is prsent nothing of the sorts yourself and when I call you out on previous hsitory where they’ve been higher than for more than 1 years, you’re saying that it’s not a big difference?
During the same period, the Reds, which people consider to have a bandbox stadium, had a lower rank than Rogers Centre.
So, enough with your nonsense. Go back to school.
Dusty wanted to bet that Chapman would get $150-mil over 6 years no problem. The answer is a hard no.
Although Votto will be getting to play for his hometown team, I don’t like this signing. There will be no room for Votto to get a lot of playing time with Vladdy at first, IKF at 3rd, and Turner at DH.
He should play for nothing, that’s what he brings to the table
Huh
He’s fairly close to HOF, not automatic, but even a bad partial year won’t change that. A good swan song might help a bit. I have nothing against older players who can still contribute to a roster as a complimentary player and if he shows enough early, maybe he gets the promotion.
Get him a ring, Toronto
Not even a Jays fan and I love this. Good for him, and good for them. What a cool story.
Hard to see him finding playing time there
Starts at DH vs RHP, gives Vladdy a day off his feet once in a while
Vogelbach can do that
Jays are trying to lose weight this year
Right. I think Votto and Vogelbach would be competing for a spot.
But in all seriousness vogelbach has played 5 games at 1b the last 2 seasons so Votto does give them another option to have Turner at 3B occasionally
Your 4 bench spots are a catcher, Schneider, Espinal/Clement and Votto – if Votto makes the team.
Like Reynoldo said, hard to see playing time. Votto is a pinch hitting bench bat, unless Turner or Vlad get hurt.
Minor league contract aside , We don’t need Votto, this is a Showboat signing by a desperate FO…like the Frank Thomas signing…
“The most important part of this aside” lol
Thomas was signed to a 2 year 18 million dollar major league contract, Votto will be owed league min and doesn’t get a 40 man spot.
But yes other than all those differences it’s exactly the same because they both play baseball
Always a chance Vogelbach could be older than Votto by opening day.
I can’t say definitively that Votto would fare better on the Blue Jays bench than Daniel Vogelbach would. (Vogelbach’s exceptional lack of athleticism would seem to cancel out Votto’s age.) but… is there any baseball fan that just… wouldn’t prefer Joey get the slot? Sort of no matter how he looks in spring training? If I was a Blue Jays fan, it would be a no-brainer. Give us Votto. And I say that as a Cubs fan who had to watch Votto kick our ass year after year. Votto’s great! Love that guy.
In no way is it laughable that Mauer made it in. He deserved it. And how is Pujols going to get snubbed? Unless PED allegations pop up he’s an easy first-ballot guy.
I think the holier than thou writers that let Papi in despite failing a PED test, will argue Pujols lied about his age.
As for Pujols, I believe he did use PEDs especially during his last season. Truth be told though, I don’t really care. Despite being a Cubs fan, I was glad to see Pujols going out more like the Pujols we remember vs a shell of his former self.
Papi never failed a drug test. He was on a list that was never made public. Why not publish all 103 or whatever names but instead you just select one or two because you want to take them down? It was kind of pathetic. Now, do I believe that Papi never took anything? He probably did but he crushed the Yankees so many times it was payback for all the players that they employed who were on the juice. Lots of them. So, pffft.
Mauer is only in because he was a career catcher. Catchers have lower standards
Right on…hope he makes the roster. The guy is a hoot!
“Vogelbach is 31 years old and thus far younger than Votto”
…and I think it’s a very safe bet that he’ll continue being younger than Votto going forward, too!
If he wasn’t going to be with the Reds, this was the signing I was really hoping for! I would love to see him cap off a fabulous career with a good season or two North of the border. And if the Jays keep Daniel Vogelbach over Joey Votto, there should be a fan revolt!
Only thing Vogelbach beats Votto in is a hotdog eating contest
Most serious fans are already upset that we signed Votto instead of Martinez. Makes no sense except as a smoke screen to take focus off of Atkins miserable off season.
the Canadian goes home.
No more abandoned shopping carts! If you know, you know.
This is the wholesome news we all needed on this Friday.
As a reds fan Im discussed at our organization but definitely happy for Votto. Had the pleasure to meet him and he was genuinely one of the nicest players I’ve met. Hope he can find his form again
If you’d rather have IKF in your starting lineup than Joey you have some wild priorities
Love this and hope he has an amazing season with the Jays.
As I’m sure it did to other Canadian baseball fans – this brought a smile to my face!
Dumb move. Martinez would have brought a smile to Blue Jays fans who care about a winning team.
Okay!
The Cardinals should have signed Votto to a major league deal instead of Carpenter.
Ugh I can’t stand him. Rather Vogelbach make the team.
Canadian patriotism signing? How much value does a once great self-deprecating everyman provide to an organ”I”zation’s social media presence? Must be significant.
SupremeZeus: It’s actually not Patriotism but rather Bigotry. But because it’s about including instead of excluding, everyone chooses not to notice.
Kind of surprised he could only get a minor league deal. He can still work a walk at a high level. He had a .212 BABIP despite a 89.3 mph EV (career mark, albeit only since 2015, is 89.4) and a 39.7% hard hit %, both of which are above average. Even with the low BABIP, he still managed a 99 OPS+ in a season where he was returning from injury.
He’s not going to be a world beater, but this could be a pretty good move for the Jays. If Vogelbach struggles to hit HR like he did for most of last year, Votto might be a better option.
Pretty good move? It’s a stupid move signing another weak left hand hitting player when this team desperately needs a right hand power hitter like Martinez. Just a smoke screen by Atkins to take the focus off his bad off season.
Yup…trying to win back the fan base….
Meh. I like it better when the stars of the game retire on a high note. His life and his choice.
OTOH, no Reds fans in here complaining that the Reds should’ve picked up a gazillion $$$ option for a minor leaguer.
Meh. Mike Mussina walked away in ’08 winning 20 games over 200 IP in 34 starts. He would’ve won his first ring in ’09 had he not. Play until the game no longer wants you.
Ofcourse now that no one wants votto he will pretend to like the Jay’s and Canadian baseball lol.
Some guys just dont know when to call it quits
But good luck to him!
First Ballot Hall of Famer.
Always liked Joey. However I would have been more excited if the Jays had signed a FA who actually can still hit like Martinez. Did we really need a below average left hand hitter to go along with the ones we have now (Kk, Varsho) for example. When we faced lefties Turner could play 3rd with Martinez DH. Changes the whole dynamic of the line up.
Atkins is hoping signing a home town guy will take the focus of the terrible off season he has had
If Joey makes the team does that mean Vogelbach is history. I would sssume so.
@Larry Elliott
Bench depth. Can never have enough Big 1B men. And never know when you need a stolen base in the bottom of the 9th with 2 out to win the world series.
Non-sense, nothing left in the tank, should had retired already.
I don’t see Votto retiring playing for Buffalo.
Martinez is in discussions with the Marlins. That ship probably sailed.
Baseball wouldn’t be the same without him. If it wasn’t the Reds, I think the Blue Jays were the perfect pick considering he is from there. Good luck Votto.
Pack your bags Vogey. Off to Cracker Barrel for breakfast then Ruby Tuesday for lunch and dinner.
Joey Votto to the BlueJays is the feel good story of the off-season.
It is also Atkins confirmation to the fans that the Jays are winning nothing this year.
Vogelbach, Votto, Varsho, KK? What a laughable batting crew. Add the 3rd DH who can actually hit with production in Turner and you have got a great lineup of off-season work. lol.
I am thinking the Jays get off to a quick start then go in the tank and stay there. Atkins fired sometime in 2024.
It all depends on the health and performance of the starting rotation. The bullpen will be good but can’t carry a rotation with injuries. There is only one bluejays pitcher of note in the upper minors that qualifies as quality depth, the rest are minor leaguers.
Let’s be fair and just add one point for everyone in the free agent contest because we all knew this was going to happen.
Retirement announcement coming soon….
This is awesome, I was hoping this would come together. I’m going to miss the old cornball but it’s good to see the guy end up at home
Joey bangs!
He’s a challenger. I respect that like Hansel respecting Sting although he doesn’t listen to his music.
Happy for the guy. Honestly with how Abreu played most of last season I was hoping the Astros would take a flyer on this guy. Maybe the tank is about empty, but for two million? I could think of worse ways to spend money. I’m glad he gets an opportunity to keep his career alive.
One more magical run would be so much fun. I’ll be rooting for Votto.
Votto has an outside chance at making the team. If the Jays were willing to take a flier on a guy who needs a triple to get halfway home in Vogelbach, might as well take a flier on Votto.
But here’s the reality; Votto is not DH’ing over Turner who’s not going to play much 3B, and Vlad is playing 1B. Votto is a bench bat at this time. Jays should turn their attention at dealing Espinal.
He’s stated in The Athletics articles that he doesn’t have any expectations of playing time. If he makes the team at some point, he’ll probably play a little bit of 1B when Vladdy needs a day off or pinch-hit against a righty.
Thanks?
Who’s next, Fergie Jenkins?
What year would he have to have retired to have a .300 career?
By my calculations, Votto would need 150 more hits in 350 ABs to finish at a career .300 BA. Needless to say, he’s not hitting .428 in ’24.
Not what I asked but nice calculating.
This is the feel-good story of the offseason..
I don’t understand this other than gaining a ton of viewers for ST games. He’s saying he wants to play in Buffalo to work his way up. To what?
Why is either Votto or Vogelbach guaranteed to make this team? That means they have to find a spot for a lefty bench couch potato when it could go to a proper defensive depth player. So who isn’t making this team? All for what? Vogelbach is useless and Votto is washed AF. Rogers marketing is just dying for this opportunity.
Why have a bench DH? Having a player on the bench limited to DH and 1B is just stupidity. Turner hits RHP just fine. Votto is a publicity stunt, he won’t do a thing in Toronto if he makes it there.
Washed ex-big league stars spent years and years playing ball in the minors during the last century. Big names would populate rosters in Minneapolis, Newark, Indianapolis, the Coast League, et. al.
Many played through their mid-40’s before finally taking that night watchman job at the can factory or selling parimutuel tix at Hialeah.
I hope Votto hangs around for awhile at whatever level. If Pinky Hargreaves played into his 40’s, let Joey if he so pleases. Baseball can be lotsa fun, you know.
He won’t replace the talent the Blue Jays lost, but not a bad gamble I guess.
Blue Jays have fared worse than the Red Sox this offseason.
Always great to see guys with genuine love for the game. Big time star taking a minor league contract and a part time role is great to see. Lot of youngsters on their team that can learn a lot from him. His intangible WAR will be so much higher than his actual WAR.
My only take on this Votto issue other than he’s a very good player for a time is yes the city of Toronto always wanted him to play their. Yet for a guy who was a hometown hero there, he still took the money to play elsewhere. Blue Jays don’t owe him anything, he should go ahead and retire rather than play the hometown card.
Yall think he makes an mlb team?
Welcome home, Joey!
Looks like the cuckoo bird flew north
Am I the only one who googled “amalgamated”?
Amalgamated means covered with cheese, in Canadian.
The Former_Player: Given his borderline numbers, and given that he spent only 60% of his plate appearances at C, yes, he probably shouldn’t be in The Hall.
If Scott Rolen is a HOF than Joey Votto is for sure.
This is both fascinating and embarrassing.
Joey Votto will always be known as a respectable, acknowledgeable, and fan friendly player, not to mention a wonderful husband and father. Wish him success wherever he goes. ,
I’m not a Joey Votto fan and I get it’s his hometown club but this ain’t right. 17 years in Cincinnati. His whole career with one team until now. Just awful.
Jays wont make the playoffs with this roster – instead of adding pieces they needed they dont –