The starting pitchers of the Marlins have been popular in trade rumors and the Orioles showed the most interest in left-hander Jesús Luzardo, per a report from Barry Jackson and Craig Mish of the Miami Herald. It’s unclear exactly when the trade talks took place.
The Orioles have been looking for starting pitching all offseason so it’s logical that they would check in with Miami. The O’s were connected to trade candidates like Dylan Cease and free agents like Michael Lorenzen and James Paxton before landing a big fish when they acquired Corbin Burnes from the Brewers.
From the perspective of the Marlins, they don’t quite have the overflowing rotation surplus that they have had in the past, but it makes sense to listen to offers since they have holes elsewhere on the roster that need to be addressed. Catcher and shortstop are those spots that could clearly be upgraded but free agency doesn’t have many enticing options, so perhaps moving a starter would be their best bet even if the depth isn’t quite what it was.
They traded Pablo López to the Twins last winter as part of the return for Luis Arráez and then Sandy Alcantara required Tommy John surgery at the end of the 2023 campaign. Additionally, they traded prospect Jake Eder to the White Sox for Jake Burger, thinning out the depth a bit.
After all that, the club’s rotation mix currently consists of Luzardo, Eury Pérez, Braxton Garrett, Edward Cabrera and Trevor Rogers, with Sixto Sánchez, Ryan Weathers and Meyer are some of the other options on the roster.
That group has its question marks. Cabrera gets tons of strikeouts and ground balls but has also walked 14% of batters faced in his career. He’s now out of options and can no longer be sent to the minors to continue refining his command. Rogers was great in 2021 but his results backed up in 2022 and then he was limited by injuries in 2023. He made four April starts last year before going on the injured list due to a left biceps strain, later being diagnosed with a partial tear in his right lat, never making it back to the club. Sánchez has thrown just one minor league inning over the past three years due to ongoing shoulder problems. Weathers had poor results last year while Meyer missed all of 2023 recovering from Tommy John surgery.
The Marlins are reportedly setting a high asking price in trade talks concerning Luzardo, which is a sensible position to take. With that group of starters, they don’t strictly need to move someone since it’s arguably flimsy as it is. Luzardo is also under club control through the 2026 season, meaning the club needn’t be in any kind of hurry. He’s making $5.5MM this year and will be due two more arbitration raises in the seasons to come. That’s a bargain price for a guy who made 50 starts over the past two years with a 3.48 ERA, 28.7% strikeout rate and 7.9% walk rate.
Cabrera and Rogers have also received some trade interest, but the asking price on them would naturally be lower on account of the Cabrera’s control problems and Rogers’ injury issues. Jackson and Mish add that the Marlins and Royals had talks about some kind of blockbuster involving Pérez and Bobby Witt Jr. but those talks quickly fizzled out. Those talks were towards the end of last season, while Kim Ng was still running the baseball operations department. Jackson and Mish report that the new regime, led by Peter Bendix, considers Pérez untouchable.
But with the holes elsewhere on the roster, there would be an argument for taking the right deal. The Marlins reportedly asked about catching prospect Samuel Basallo in trade talks with the Orioles, but the O’s had no interest in making him available. Part of Baltimore’s never-ending parade of elite prospects, Basallo is currently ranked 10th in the league by Baseball America and 7th by FanGraphs.
The Marlins currently have a catching tandem of Christian Bethancourt and Nick Fortes. Both are fairly well regarded on defense but don’t provide a lot with the bat. Bethancourt hit .231/.261/.361 last year and Fortes just .204/.263/.299. The 19-year-old Basallo would be more of a long-term solution there, as he only has four games above High-A and is unlikely to crack the majors for much of 2024, if at all.
The Orioles could also theoretically stand to part with Basallo since they already have a cornerstone catcher in Adley Rutschman, but that doesn’t seem like it will motivate them towards a deal. They also have a surplus of young talent on the infield and outfield but have generally held onto the majority of it, apart from including Joey Ortiz in the Burnes deal. They still seem to have too many players for the playing time they have to distribute but appear to be quite patient in letting moves come together.
As mentioned, it’s unclear exactly when the talks regarding Luzardo took place. Presumably, they were before the Burnes deal, but there would have been an argument for the O’s to still be pursuing rotation upgrades even after that. After that trade, the rotation projected to be Burnes, Kyle Bradish, Grayson Rodriguez, Dean Kremer and John Means. That’s a talented group but Rodriguez was inconsistent as a rookie last year while Means just returned from a lengthy Tommy John layoff. Adding Luzardo into that group would have been a viable path for the O’s to take, so it’s possible the talks happened post-Burnes, even if they didn’t make much headway.
It’s possible that their desire to get a deal done may have increased this week, however. It was reported today that Bradish has been diagnosed with a sprain of his ulnar collateral ligament, raising the spectre of Tommy John surgery. It’s still not determined if he will need to go under the knife but he will at least start the season on the injured list. Additionally, Means is about a month behind schedule due to an elbow issue he dealt with last year.
With two-fifths of their projected starting rotation now questionable, perhaps the O’s will circle back to the Marlins and reopen these talks at some point. Though the free agent market also still features notable names like Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery, Lorenzen, Hyun Jin Ryu and many more. Meanwhile, Cease is still on the White Sox while other trade candidates like Shane Bieber or Paul Blackburn could still be available. Even after the Burnes trade, the O’s are still considered to have an excellent farm system and could pull off just about any trade they decide to make if they really wanted.
Yes!!! But…”interest” isn’t as interesting as doing something finally. Sigh.
What do you mean doing something finally?
@ JJ — Making a trade.
Like trading for Corbin Burnes?
ego — I do like the Burnes trade. What’s that got to do with Luzardo?
I’ve been reading about a BAL/MIA trade for Luzardo since before last off season. That’s the “do something” angle, not some nitwit fan bemoaning his own team.
But I appreciate the good faith.
Reds should too…but won’t as their front office don’t believe in acquiring a top of the line experienced starter.
From what I have seen, nearly the whole league has checked in on the marlins rotation. A’s and Ray’s are the two teams that haven’t checked that I have seen. All big market to low market clubs, have inquired on the marlins starting 4. It’s just the asking price for any of them is relatively high. Many clubs have backed off because in certain pitchers, it’s top 3 prospect and handful of first round picks and//or prospect’s. It’s quite a step price that can cripple organizations future’s.
“Rays.” “Prospects.” ” Futures.”
Luzardo is the guy I thought the Reds really should have gone after. Only 26 with three years of control remaining, and was better than Cease last season. The Reds are overflowing with hitting prospects, many of which should be of interest to the Marlins. If a package of, say, Edwin Arroyo, Cam Collier, Carlos Jorge, Lyon Richardson and Brandon Williamson would get it done, I would pull the trigger on that if I’m the Reds. It’s a lot of talent to give up, but it makes them the clear favorite in the central for 2024, without forcing them to sacrifice any of their young somewhat established cornerstones (Elly, Marte, CES, etc). The Reds have so much talented young hitting in both the majors and minors that a trade like this shouldn’t phase them in the short or long term very much.
Trade the future of the Reds for a pitcher. As a Pirates fan, I support this movement. While you are at it, trade for 2 or 3 others please
There’s plenty more where they came from. You can’t play them all.
As I said in my post, that trade would not be the Reds “trading their future away” by any means. They are so loaded with hitting prospects that they can afford to pull off a trade like that without it hurting them much at all in the long term. They’d still have several more very promising infield prospects in the lower minors in addition to a few near-MLB ready outfield prospects such as Rece Hinds and Blake Dunn, a top catching prospect in Alfredo Duno, and so on. They are one of the few teams that can afford to make a trade like this without selling out their future.
Depth is important as well. You think being a division foe, you think you would learn a thing or two of what not to do by watching the Pirates. Hence, Archer
Monty should sign a one year deal with Baltimore. Of all the teams still looking for a starter, they offer the best opportunity to win.
It’s going to be interesting to see if any of the remaining players are willing to take a high value one year deal. Will the media revenue fears calm down next year or will this be the normal offseason until media revenues get back to what they were?
It’s hard to say. Salaries might have simply outpaced revenues. There’s no way to know for sure since MLB teams aren’t required to make their books public.
from Montgomery perspective, his 2023 season was about the best showcase season prior to free agency. I don’t think he will give that platform up for a one season deal.
I agree about 2023 being an ideal platform season. But it’s looking more and more like a long term deal isn’t out there. A one year deal might be his best option, even if it’s not an ideal option.
I don’t think Elias is interested in giving up a draft pick to sign free agents. With their record of scouting and signing prospects, I wouldn’t either. Maybe if they weren’t attached to a Qualifying offer. Orioles have had too much success drafting to give up picks.
@JR I also agree with this point. However, the injury to Bradish kind of changes the calculus.
Montgomery didn’t get a qualifying offer because he was traded during last season. No draft choice involved with him.
I think losing the Draft pick for QOed SPS is why Elias didn’t sign the obvious perfect fit, Nate Eovaldi, or the other good fit, Chris Bassitt last Winter.
What would one year of Montgomery cost? $28MM?
I think it would cost more because a lot of teams would be in on a one year deal
I was thinking he could cost more too. Like $30+MM. I just didn’t want to poison the well.
But they already traded Joey Ortiz…
Yankees gonna lose out to the O’s on another pitcher.
Hope so!
They still have a TON of position prospects. Assuming the Marlins are stuck on getting a pitching prospect they have the capital.
The Burnes deal came out of nowhere. If there were still negotiations happening, I don’t think we’d hear about them. I feel confident that the interest was likely before the Burnes deal finalized and Elias has since moved on.
That being said, if another team was appearing to close in on a deal with the Marlins for Luzardo and the O’s could beat the deal, they could always swoop back in for the right offer.
I really thought the Orioles were making a move to win a championship with the Brunes trade but now it seems like they did it just to try and maintain knowing thst Bradish was gonna miss time, perhaps a lot of time.
They still have players to trade. The Marlins need a long term shortstop and catcher the Orioles could make those players available if needed.
Can Westburg play short?
Westburg can play shortstop. He might make the most sense to move if the Orioles make a move for Luzardo. That would probably be contingent on both Mayo (3B) and Holliday (2B) being ready to play. I could see the Orioles being fine with Urias as the utility guy and moving Westburg as the centerpiece of a Luzardo deal.
Both Mayo and Holliday don’t really need to be ready on opening day. Maybe one but not both. Mateo can start for a bit until one is ready.
Westburg and Basallo. That’s the deal
They likely wont move Basallo in any deal
They likely aren’t a championship contender without Luzardo.
These are the decisions teams have to make.
Oh I agree… I’m just going by what I’m hearing in how they regard him
Elias isn’t moving Basallo!
Holliday, Mayo and Basallo are all untouchable unless Elias is getting a Nolan Ryan or Koufax type of dominant #1 back.
Mayo too? I dont think most have him on the same tier as holliday or Basallo.
Says who? Certainly not American League East teams.
Ma4170 – Mayo is in the same upper echelon tier as Holliday and Basallo. I’m not saying he’s an equal or better prospect than those two, but he’s an elite level prospect.
There is a clear drop off in the consensus rankings for the Os after those three. Some ranking services have Mayo higher than Basallo.
It just seems that places like BA and MLB have Mayo a 55 and even 50 level prospect where Holliday is up near 70 and isn’t Basallo 60-65? Also, isn’t Mayo at a position where they’re already fairly loaded? 55 is very good, but I’m not sure teams would consider that the untouchable tier. Asking out of genuine curiosity since I don’t follow them as closely.
It’s all so very subjective. Having said that – when you look at Fangraphs FV ratings, you’re right.
On the other hand, one service has Mayo ranked 12th on their top 100 list. Basallo is a “low” as 27 on another. Kiley McDaniel and Just Baseball each have Mayo higher than Basallo.
Don’t think you’ll get both. They are really, really high on Basallo. But Westburg, an OF and Norby might be a good return.
Have people soured a bit on Norby? I used to hear him in the same breath as Mayo and now hes not on most top 100s.
Not so much that they have soured on him. I think two things hurt him. He got off to a super slow start last season. Numbers look good when you look at the overall stat line but he really struggled for 6 weeks or so.
Also the newly drafted and fresh set of breakout players tend to kick guys like Norby down a bit right or wrong.
Basallo is going only if Eury is coming to Baltimore. Not for any of the other SPS though.
Norby looks like he has a true MLB bat. If he could battle 2B to a draw, he’d have a clear path to being a starter. But he looks more destined for LF, where his bat wouldn’t be upper tier. Still could be valuable in LF, though.
Stowers seems like a perfect plug and play addition to that trade. And maybe Haskin also.
Mayo is a legit power bat. And he’s more athletic at 3B than many give him credit for. Looks like he could be a decent 3B at the MLB level. But his arm is so strong that moving him to RF has been rumored. Might be the best solution to what his role will be.
Perez makes no sense for a contending team like the Orioles. You need to stop your obsession with prospects and potential.
Stowers is basically Burdick who the Marlins just let go. Stowers is a nobody.
That’s the most idiotic thing I have heard this month. Explain how Eury Perez would not help the Orioles. You. clearly need to educate yourself about “Prospects and potential.”
Miami traded Burdick..
You’re just embarrassing yourself with childish jibes like “Stowers is a nobody.” Ever seen him hit. Dude is a legit MLB hitter.
Stowers and Burdick have wildly different player profiles despite being outfielders.
I think whatever deal we get done is going to center around Cowser & Norby. Might not be for Luzardo but I think those 2 are the chips.
I doubt we’d deal both Westburg & Norby in a deal. That’d mean Urias is playing every single day and we view him as the long term answer at 2B.
I’d be fine with parting w/ them both if it netted Luzardo but I doubt that happens. Westy could be a SS on another squad but def a 2B in Baltimore.
Westy will be the primary 3B once Holliday officially makes the OD roster as the primary 2B. Gunnar at SS and Urias and Mateo as super utility. Elias has said Holliday will be given “every opportunity” to make the club and will be taking most of the 2B reps in Sarasota. Holliday is too talented to not make the roster.
Urias probably playing a bit at 3B?
Tbh if the LT plan is going to be Holliday @ 2B and Gunnar @ SS—I could see Westy being expendable in the near future. We have Urias and then Coby Mayo real soon.
Yeah. Good problems to have as they say. Elias has publicly stated how much he values Westy. Could be GM speak tho. He has rotational value at 2B and SS too.
Mateo is likely gone after this year. I don’t recall how long we have control of Urias for, maybe another 2 years? He could be a trade candidate, Especially when Mayo is ready – which could be sooner than you might think.
I watched about 30 of Holliday’s games on mlb.tv last year. What I saw is what the consensus seems to be from the experts. Gunnar is by far the superior SS defensively. Jackson’s arm strength is borderline for what you want at SS. Gunnar has more range and moves better and has a cannon.
I see a scenario where when Urias and Mateo is gone, that Westy takes over their role. I’m a believe that Mayo can stick at 3B. Remember how bad Austin Riley was defensively at 3rd? He and Mayo have similar body types. Riley has a poor arm while Coby’s is 70 grade. I know they plan to play Mayo in RF too which would be fine. To me, he has more upside than Kjerstad or and other OF prospect we have – if that ends up being his home. But he’s vastly improved at 3rd defensively a la Riley.
Urias we have for awhile. 3 more years w/ him. I hope Mayo is the answer at 3B. I think he’s going to be a stud.
Mayo is #3 on the 3-person “untouchable” list. I would wager he has a better chance of making the OD roster than does Holliday. Dude is ready and he can mash!
Age weighs heavily into prospect rankings. Mayo is 22, Holliday is 20, Basallo is 19. Mayo is ready for MLB today. The other two are not quite ready.
I will say it again it really wouldn’t hurt to work with MLB trade value simulator and use their values to try and figure out what a fair trade would be. Doesn’t make it true but it’s something to go on and makes for a better discussion.
Trade simulator says Westburg and Basallo for Luzardo is just about right. And I agree that seems pretty fair.
I’m very confident that the Orioles view Basallo a lot higher then BTV.
Watched a lot of Red Sox minor league games last year and saw Basallo quite a bit he’s scary. If I’m Baltimore I wouldn’t trade that guy. His offense at his age is crazy the guy looks like a young Yordan Alvarez.
Could be a young Eloy Jiminez instead. 4 years of Luzardo is incredibly valuable. I know Basallo is looking great but he’s got a long ways to go
Three.
Pretty sure it’s 3 years of Luzardo.
Typo yeah I meant 3. Garrett is 5 with 4 years of arb.
Clearly the Marlins are looking to rebuild after making the playoffs. After all, they are in the business of making the O’s better; not themselves.
Missing Alcantara for the season and they have done pretty much nothing this offseason. They don’t plan on contending.
@Blackpink in the area
Just make this conversation simple and admit that you’re a homer that wants the Marlins to accept the dumbest trade possible that will make your team better.
Not an Orioles fan
In this post, I didn’t say you were an O’s fan. I said homer.
Homer means I root for a particular team and in this case would imply the Orioles. That’s not true.
You are the homer knucklehead.
Who do you root for then?
Multiple Marlins fans have questioned and even mocked your trade suggestions, but you’re calling me the knucklehead?
One would think when a person gets the message from multiple people who know the situation better than them, they’d realize that their logic is off. Apparently you can’t grasp that.
It’s you and 1 other biased Marlins fan. That’s it.
Oh, so both of us on this article are both biased Marlins fans because we find your continuous trade suggestion ridiculuous? And you’re getting selective amnesia about the otehr Marlins fans from the other artcile that called you out on that post as well?
OK, so you are sticking to two of us. Doesn’t that tell you something that two guys, who know the Marlins better than you, find your trade suggestions ridiculous?
And again, who do you root for? Why do you keep avoiding that question?
LOL! That dude is complete moron. Doesn’t even know what “homer” means ROFLMAO!!!
@Ra
Are you referring to me or @Blackpink in the area?
Yeah you know I am not an Orioles fan we were talking the other day. It’s just silly because obviously he’s the homer. I like to talk about trades involving all teams not just my team. I enjoy it that’s probably why I like the site so much.
I hope the Orioles go get Luzardo or Garrett. I think they can win it all if they do.
@Blackpink in the area
Then why haven’t you said what your favorite team is? And all you’ve posted is about this O’s getting Luzardo for garbage, and no other post.
Who are you a fan of if you’re not an O’s fan?
And yes, Luzardo can help the O’s, but the Marlins are not giving him up for your ridiculous suggested trades. The same way the O’s are trying to win a championship, the Marlins are too. The Marlins are not in the business of making the O’s better. They are in the business of making themselves better. They are not going to trade a key pitching piece for the gamble of getting unproven dime-a-dozen prospects that are more suited for a rebuilding team – not a team that just made the Playoffs and are looking to contend again. So stop with the ridiculous, one-sided O’s favoring trades.
and again, who’s your favorite team if you’re not an O’s fan?.
Cowser and Westburg is garbage? Really?
It’s the mark of ignorance to dismiss top quality performers in AAA as “garbage.” Basically he’s saying, “I have no idea who these players are so I will throw around insults.”
Urias, Stowers and Ambruester. Take it or leave it.
Miami would hang up.
Westburg, Stowers and Armbruester might get it done, though. Or at least come pretty close.
Probably not
Not even close
MLB executives don’t waste their time with that garbage BTV and their absurd “values.” Why should fans waste their time with that shtt?
Just take a look at the Orioles and the BTV values of Cowser and Kjerstad. Kjerstad is far more valuable in almost everyone’s view and definitely in the majority of front offices, I would bet yet BTV has Cowser at DOUBLE Kjerstad’s. I used to go on there to make the most absurd trades imaginable just to show the “trade simulator” was wildly inaccurate.
You are wasting your time on a trade rumors site. Good to know where to draw the line lol.
Cowser is overrated and Kjerstad is underrated on there I agree. But Cowser can play defense that’s why Cowser is more valuable.
Just wrong. Kjerstad is far more valuable.
PS: I wasted about 3 hours on BTV over a year ago, but it was entertaining to prove it is rubbish. Haven’t been back since.
btw: Cowser looked fundamentally suspect on a few different plays last year in MLB. Meanwhile Kjerstad looked fundamentally sound in AAA with a strong, accurate arm and covered ground n RF well. I think Cowser’s D has been overrated possibly while Kjertsad has been way underrated. I hear people all the time say that he is slow (and implied “fat”) yet he hit 8 triples last year. Pretty hard to do that if you are actually slow.
BTV misvalues many, many players, thus it fails to provide valid insight into trades. Basallo is a horrrible valuation by BTV. So is Kjerstad.
I can understand why some people would enjoy it, however.
They actually adjusted Cowser and now I think he’s underrated. Basallo much higher now as well.
Capricious is about as nice a word as I can come by for their fixing of previously printed errors. That people go to war on trades utilizing their unscientific valuations is comical.
I just went back to look and am still shocked how off they are on so many players. Beyond their faulty methodology, they post wildly out-of-date valuations. Nothing is quite as hilarious as the 0.5MM surplus value for a player that retired a year ago. 😛
What players are so wrong?
Unless you have a better way to judge trade value then be quiet.
I already gave you examples. I also found yet ANOTHER player with a 0.5MM value who was released by the Orioles a year ago and has not played pro baseball since. This is so laughable. These errors are a total indictment of their ego-driven BS. I won’t be silenced just because you like their brand of voodoo valuations. They are garbage. And like I said, no professional baseball evaluator would ever give them credence. So why should anyone else?
Wow they have him at .5 and it should be zero you sure proved that the site is trash lol. Way to go.
What do you use to judge of a trade is fair or not? Your homer instincts?
TWO players have not played for the team for a YEAR but are listed as Orioles for trade! You defend that sloppy work? They should not even be LISTED !!!
But since now you are casting ad hominems my way as your defense, it is clear that you have nothing else and have lost the discussion. Personal attacks are the last resort of the defeated.
What do you use?
That’s what I thought….
While you are slinging personal attacks, explain how me saying Cowser is overvalued gibes with your claim I am “homer.”
If you are left with no option other than using ad hominems, at least have them make sense.
I suppose you didn’t notice in your attempt to discredit everything on their site but Cowsers value has actually dropped significantly.
Again what do you use?
That’s what I thought……
As a Yankee fan, and Oriole fans this is sarcastic, waiting for Baltimore to trade Coby Mayo for Luzardo and reports to come out that Miami only wanted Spencer Jones from NYY
It would take more than Mayo.
No it wouldn’t. Mayo is a much better prospect than Jones. Much more highly regarded and younger.
The Orioles aren’t going to trade Mayo, Basallo or Holliday. I could POSSIBLY see them parting with Westburg or Cowser if they were getting a young top of the rotation starter back, but those other three are basically untouchable at this point. Highly doubt they’ll part with Kjerstad either.
Maybe Basallo goes? In 2021 the Os spent 2.3 mil in rookie bonus money on catchers. 1.3 mil to Samuel and then a huge 1 mil overpay to 8th rounder Creed Willems. To me it’s obvious that the FO has high expectations for both. If Basallo helps us get a pitcher now, roll the dice with Willems?
The O’s aren’t getting a Luzardo for just one unproven rookie. Cowser did not come close to his buildup, and now scouts say he has holes in his swing and is probably just a platoon guy. O’s fans also think Westburg is Bobby Grich 2.0, when he’s not. Quit over-valuing untested rookies.
@Windowpane
Don’t you know? The Marlins are looking to rebuild after making the playoffs last year. Also, they are in the business of making the O’s better; not themselves. For the O’s prospects, the Marlins might also throw in Arraez, Jazz, Burger, Garrett, Eury, Cabrera and all of their lefty relievers. They gotta have those O’s prospects to rebuild after their playoff season!
Window – No one said it was just going to be a one for one deal, did they? Or are you just posturing?
Obviously, Luzardo would cost several prospects. All we (Oriole fans on this board) are saying is that Mayo, Basallo and Holliday are all untouchable. Luzardo is a nice pitcher, but he’s not Sandy Koufax.
For Westburg, look up Elias comments on him. He himself values Westy extremely highly. It’s not just the fans as you claim.
Basallo goes only if Perez comes.
I wouldn’t get your hopes up on Willems.
I can’t name a single Orioles fan who thinks Westburg is Bobby Grich. Especially not among Orioles fans who actually watched Bobby Grich.
Ra, agree on Willems. Risky to move forward on him and not Basallo. That said, 1 mil bonus on an 8th rounder. Wow. The FO values this dude.
I remember when we moved Davey J to Atlanta for that Williams cat. At the time, I was thinking WHY! And then Bobby G showed up. Loved Davey but Bobby had a much better all around game.
Williams was a terrible disappointment.
Yeah, big overslot. Rather surprising for a guy who looks destined for DH.
Grayson Rodriguez was inconsistent last year? Ha!
1st 11 GS: 7.33 ERA, 5.60 FIP, 311/378/569/947 slash, 63% strikes
Next 12: 2.26 ERA, 2.75 FIP, 217/274/295/569 slash, 69% strikes
Not only was he NOT inconsistent, he was extraordinarily consistent: first he was consistently bad, and then consistently great. It’s safe to say he figured things out about halfway through his rookie campaign.
Yes, and for those who watched GrOD Almighty pitch those 12 starts after his return, he was not only consistent but improving.
With pitchers available in free agency, it should be “Marlins interested in Baltimore’s young hitting talent, Baltimore interested in Luzardo.”
new drinking game….every time we see “HAS SHOWN INTEREST”………………bottoms up! I’m sooooooooooooooooooo tired of reading that line. JMO.
We’d all be hospitalized
@fenwayfrank
Are you trying to reduce the population through alcohol poisoning?
Wait, did I see you on Criminal Minds or are you Thanos with a new way of doing things this time?
I like Orioles for this trade but SD could (never count out AJ for a trade) also be a good matchup.
Orioles have a lot of high prospects (more than they need near ready) and have recently promoted some high prospects.
SD has a lot of neat ready high prospects but haven’t had the same type of recent promotions due to prior trades so I think they maybe hold onto what they have for 2024/25 call ups. But could decide Luzardo is worth another trade because they need a young controllable LH 2 type pretty bad.
They do match up well
Something like Luzardo and Tanner Scott for Jackson Merrill, Brandon Valenzuela, Adam Mazur and Jagger Haynes could make a lot of sense for both clubs. It depends on how seriously the Padres are trying to compete next year versus the future.
HB, this isn’t to bash or even evaluate the trade because I know little of Scott other than BR stats. Late blooming reliever?
I’m pretty high on Merrill and believe he is crucial to SS in 2025 with SD trading Kim at deadline if not in contention so, I’m not trading JM. If an extension of Kim, then ok he is available but don’t see that as the smart money bet.
The other guys and someone else after JM on top 30 and I’m maybe good with it. Iriarte even.
I don’t follow the Padres close enough to know for sure, but isn’t Salas as close to a “sure thing” as there is? If so, doesn’t Campusano become expendable? Could a Campusano, Thorpe, Zavala type deal be realistic?
I agree that trading Merrill would be a bold move, but if the Padres are going to pry Luzardo away from the Marlins, it’s going to take at least one top flight prospect who plays a position that they need to fill, to which Merrill fits the bill quite well. My thinking is that the Pads would either try to extend Kim in this scenario, or let him go after 2024 and move Cronenworth back to 2B, while keeping Bogaerts at SS. Again though, it really comes down to how hard the Padres are trying to win in 2024 versus playing more for the future. If they’re aiming more for 2025 and beyond, holding on to Merrill may be the wiser call. Baseball Trade Value seems to think Merrill for Luzardo is pretty even, for what it’s worth.
Ma, yes he is but doesn’t turn 18 until 6/1 so even at best case scenario 25 call up maybe. Campy is finally getting his full shot at the job (previously a very high prospect himself) that has been delayed due to some wrist type injuries. We got a taste of him last year and it was great. He isn’t expendable right now – Valenzuela #10 prospect is though and he has a very high defensive ceiling / near ready with bat a little light like a lot of C’s these days.
So, they need Campy but I’d add Zavala and Thorpe and Valenzuela and maybe still a Haynes type for that deal.
HB another element to consider is that AJ is apparently ready to go with the young arms in 24.
SD has 3 or 4 high ceiling guys (snelling Lesko Mazur Thorpe even Vásquez and Bergert and Iriarte and Brito – some will end up being RP) are “nearly ready” so, for that reason I think AJ isn’t wanting Luzardo as much as the fans are wanting Luzardo.
That’s a good point. They do have a lot of good SP prospects that should be ready by 2024-25. Snelling, Thorpe, Iriarte, Mazur, Berget could all be ready to contribute some time this season. Brito and Vasquez have some upside as #5 starter types. If I were them, I’d definitely want to bring in one more solid mid-rotation starter at least for this season, but perhaps not at the expense of Merrill.
HB, I’m calling for Ryu, Lauer, Lorenzen, Cueto as a short list because they are cheaper, decent upside probably no worse than a 4 types. Generally, good health overall for reliability to get SD to July for a call up.
If SP is weaker for first 2-3 months and they keep Merrill, I can live with it.
Orioles Have Shown Interest In Jesús Luzardo
Well, I want Jake Burger too!!!!
I want both, none of this half measure stuff!!!
You want Jake Burger over Gunnar Henderson?
Hahaha, no!!!
However, I would like him to be the full time DH and to fill in at 1st base
O’Hearn is a terrific contact hitter, but he is not a clean up hitter
Mayo, Basallo and Beavers for Luzardo and Burger.
Padded room for nutjob.
What?
Dear god no
Mike Elias isn’t moving Basallo or Mayo!
That is too much
Firstly, Elias is not going to trade Basallo unless he gets Eury in the trade.
Secondly, Adley is going to DH ~ 70 games. There is no chance the Orioles are going to add a pure DH type, whether Burger or JD Martinez.
Jake Burger is the exact type of 1 dimensional player that Mike Elias has tried to move away from.
Well, he did move away, but the Orioles clean up hitters are not getting it done
BURGER would solve that
He’s younger Mark Trumbo.
Hard pass for me (and presumably Mike Elias).
I don’t understand the Jake Burger love at all. He’s a poor fielding DH w/ K issues. Right handed power is tough at OPACY.
O’s would not value that very high. The marlins start him at 3B. He’d never put a glove on here. No shot.
So this is just old news then.
It’s related to the Bradish injury fella. Use some common sense.
Yeah but the Miami Herald article is just referencing interest prior to the Burnes trade. Fella.
That’s fine. Anyone with a lick of sense can figure out that the 2 teams might be looking to reignite talks because of the Bradish injury and why it’s worth discussing.
The Orioles knew of Bradish’s injury a full month ago, so I would not characterize potential talks as being “reignited.”
So is it worth discussing or not?
Stop trolling
They either have continued talking or not. It’s factually wrong to purport that discussion started up again after the Orioles announced the injury that they have known about since mid-January. Sorry your feelings are hurt again, but facts matter,
Mountcastle, Mayo, Hays and Cowser, and any other power guy who is limited by the new LF wall should be considered.
The Marlins could certainly use a long term outfielder as well as a shortstop and a catcher.
There is a deal to be made here if both teams want it bad enough.
Not sure the O’s will tick off each of those boxes. But there probably is no rush. Seems like Luzardo will be revisited at the deadline. I’m left wondering why they would be eager to have trade rumors about him despite how much control. There must be something because it would be his second trade in team control.
@Blackpink in the area
“The Marlins could certainly use a long term outfielder as well as a shortstop and a catcher.”
Hmmmm…So, I’m wondering what the Marlins would do with OFs Jazz Chisholm, Bryan De La Cruz and Jesus Sanchez, and catcher Nick Fortes. And what sure thing will they be getting at SS that is such a sure thing that it makes it worth trading a key pitching asset instead of giving a chance to their internal options?
Clearly all these trade suggestions are very well thought out as to what works for the Marlins side of things.
The Marlins just lost Soler and they sure found playing time for him. They could absolutely use another outfielder especially one that isn’t quite ready yet to ease him into a starting role like Cowser. Or a prospect like Beavers or Bradfield. Someone who can play center st least a little bit.
Fortes isn’t any good he’s certainly not blocking anyone.
Nick fortes and Bryan De La Cruz aren’t blocking anyone.
A below average corner outfielder and a backup C. Not hard to see the Marlins wanting an upgrade
So, an unproven proppect is an upgrade?
I notice how you both avoifd the part of me asking the question about what sure thing will the Marlins be getting at SS or OF or Catcher that is such a sure thing that it makes it worth trading a key pitching asset instead of giving a chance to their internal options?
Mayo and Cowser are not going anywhere. Mateo or Urias or even Norby could be part of it. But truly Luzardo isn’t nowhere near Burnes level so the Marlins cannot expect a huge return.
Luzardo has 3 years of team control vs 1 that’s why he’s more valuable than Burnes.
The Marlins aren’t trading Luzardo for anything less than a huge return. If the Orioles offered that trash they would just keep him. It’s going to take one of the Orioles top 3 plus another prospect. The Orioles aren’t trading Holliday and I don’t think they trade Basallo so it’s got to be Mayo. I guess maybe the Marlins might really like Cowser, Kjerstad, and either Povich or McDermott. That might tempt the Marlins.
It’s possible Luzardo could return two plug-and-play starters with Mountcastle and Stowers as well as the athletic, potential 4th outfielder Hudson Haskin. And maybe adding either SP McDermott or Seth Johnson. And possibly filling out the back end with Willems or Wagner or instead a younger longshot from the Caribbean like Bencosme or Juan Rojas
Why would the Marlins want Mountcastle? And why would anyone want Stowers? Those are garbage offers.
Mountcastle mashes. The Marlins could use a power hitting 1B. Stowers has a huge bat and could plug in immediately for 120 starts at 250/325/450
Stowers and Mountcastle are no good. That’s why people use the trade simulator it’s better than listening to a homer like you make proposals.
You know nothing about baseball. And you have zero clue about how real-life front offices work.
I can tell you’ve never heard of any of the other MiLB players, which is why you couldn’t mention them. You’re afraid of honest discussion because of your ignorance.
No wonder you use the simulator.
Again you are a homer talking like your home teams prospects are valuable when they aren’t. And Mountcastle isn’t even a prospect the Marlins don’t want or need him. If you can’t talk without being a homer I can’t talk to you.
Luzardo will fetch what Burnes did + a bit more. Cowser should be very available in my opinion.
There’s plenty of outfielders on the team & we have more in the system to replace him. Norby also has no spot here. Those 2 make sense to me to be chips.
Trade simulator had Luzardos value at about double what Burnes is and I think that’s about right.
The Marlins needs are shortstop, catcher and outfield. There is a deal to be made between these two teams for sure.
Also if the Orioles want someone making league minimum they could acquire Garrett instead of Luzardo. And simulator has Garrett’s value as about the same as Luzardo last time I checked.
I was high on trading for Garret in December 2022. His “stuff” isn’t that great, though, so the BTV is probably overvaluing him substantially. But he does have more years of control. And a LH SP in OPACY would be a nice addition for them. In real life, Garrett would come much cheaper than Luzardo, imo.
5 years of Garrett vs 3 for Luzardo. Like I said if the Orioles want someone making league minimum Garrett is the guy. I think trade values has their values right. Luzardo is just slightly higher than Garretts.
I doubt real-world front offices like Elias’s think Garrett is as valuable as Luzardo. Only one of those two do you want starting in the playoffs. Garret raises the floor for a so=so team; Luzardo raises the ceiling for most teams.
Those 2 extra years are valuable and very cheap. How much would Garrett get if he were a free agent and signed a 2 year deal this offseason? Probably 30 million easy. And he will make maybe 4 million for those 2 years so that’s a lot of surplus value.
The Orioles are a bit cheap. A mid rotation starter at league minimum could really appeal to them.
Understand that the ownership change has been pre-approved by MLB. It’s likely they may operate less bargain basement cheap going forward.
Hey, like I said, I was in favor of trading for Garrett last offseason. But 3 years of Luzardo is far more desirable for a team that thinks they can compete for a WS than 5 years of Garrett is. Braxton has middling stuff. Luzardo might cost Westburg, Cowser, Povich and Beavers. Garrett wouldn’t. He’d be more like Stowers, Norby, Haskin and Armbruester.
As a BAL GM I wouldn’t panic and get held up making a trade or signing a FA. Regarding a trade ask for BAL prospects just bite the bullet and just give up $. (Montgomery or Ryu)
I’d pass on Snell (too expensive and length of contract)
Ticket sales should be excellent for 2024 and going forward. Complicating things is the (BAL) team sale transition and issue with Nationals geographic TV rights since Wash moved from Montreal. It is not real clear to me. Baltimore Sun article talks about MLB commisioners office could get involved in resolution So ???
Signing Ryu would buy some time to sort things out (ASG) and costs little $ and 0 prospects. I think he has good value if healthy. His arm hasn’t been taxed by throwing a large amount of innings the last 2 years (27 in 2022 and 52 in 2023)
He is age 37 (rounding up)
I was thinking they might sign Ryu all Winter. After the Burnes trade, I still thought it might be possible. Now it seems probable.
Cabrera to the Brewers of Willy Adames, win win for both teams. If the Fish need more i am sure a lower level prospect could be thrown in to complete the deal. Crew need another rotation piece, Marlins need a SS bad. Adames can then be given a QO next season if he plays well.
Mountcastle, Mateo and a pair of minor leaguers for Luzardo
I can see Mateo in a package. I believe the Fish need a starting SS, Jorge was the Os starter in 22 and most of 23. The emergence of Henderson makes him movable. Included would be maybe a Stowers and a Norby.
Not even close to the package it would take to get Luzardo.
Might depend on the minor leaguers. Stowers would be a powerful add to that trade. And/Or Norby maybe. Haskin, McDermott, Beavers, Bright, Lord, Wagner, Horvath, etc. could all be viewed favorably in Miami’s front office. The question is would the Marlins want to add Mateo to start 100+ games at SS. Defensively he’s really good but that bat is questionable. If the Marlins think they can close his front side, especially against righties, they might take the gamble.
The Marlins have the asset that the Orioles covet. The Marlins don’t have to trade that asset He has 3 years of control left. The Orioles are probably losing their top pitcher, Bradish, for at the the very least a long time if not the season. The Marlins are already saying it’s going to take a lot to pry him loose. If I’m Bendix I’m asking for one of either Mayo or Basallo plus a pitcher Povich and then third piece of a 10-15 type prospect. I might even ask for more if I’m Peter something like one of Mayo or Basallo plus Kjerstad and Povich.
If Baltimore doesn’t want to pay that then that’s fine Marlins will be fine keeping Luzardo. The Orioles really need to add another pitcher either via Free Ageny or trade. They would be smart to piney up the money for Snell or Monty otherwise it’s going to cost precious prospect capital and a lot more than Oriole fans think.
“ top pitcher last year”
We wouldn’t get luzardo with Norby, Beavers, & Mateo. That’s just far too light. Beavers might pop up this year but you’d have to replace him with Cowser right now to get in the ballpark.
The OP headlined the trade with Mountcastle, so it was implied he would be involved. My point was that unless we know the other players, we can’t dismiss a suggested trade out of hand. I could toss out some goofy overpay, but I think we both understand that there are values that very for each individual team when it comes to players like Mountcastle and Mateo as well as when it comes to the Cowsers and Stowers’s
Hanging onto hitting prospects when your need is pitching does not make sense. Without Luzardo or someone similar the Orioles don’t have a chance of winning a World Series. It doesn’t matter how good your position player prospects are. Without more pitching post season success is an impossible dream for the Orioles. You cannot hit your way to the World Series.
The Marlins won the World Series in 2003 by trading away Adrian Gonzales, a future 5 time All Star, 4 time Gold Glove, and 2 time silver slugger, for a rental closer. Without that trade the Marlins would not have reached the post season.
If the Orioles want to win, they will need to trade someone with a great future or pay the money to someone like Montgomery.
If you think the Orioles can go all the way without doing something that hurts, I think you are fooling yourselves
The best trades help both teams; they don’t “hurt.” The Burnes trade didn’t hurt the Orioles. Nor the Brewers. It helped both teams.
Montgomery makes too much sense. I really like Luzardo and wish him to be out of the NL East. But he’s not an ace, he’s a pretty good #2 but I wouldn’t empty the farm system for him. Plus another hole will open up when Burnes walks at season’s end. If Monty’s price drops. They need to get on him. Then consider trading the prospects for what they need at the deadline or next winter to fill the Burnes hole.
Basallo isn’t going anywhere.
Not even for Luzardo.
For Eury, possible.
I’m w/ you Floch. Hoping Cowser & Norby plus some lower level guys would be the ticket here. Rotation looks great w/ Luz
Another “[fill in team name] interested in Jesus Luzardo” article.
And another thread of delusional homers making trade suggestions that involve the Marlins trading one of the key pieces to their playoff season for a dime-a-dozen prospect that the delusional homer overvalues to the point that he thinks it makes sense for the Marlins to trade for a rebuild piece after they made the playoffs.
I think I covered this, right?
Elias needs to stop overvaluing his players. You can’t play them all, and they ain’t gettin’ younger, so stop hoarding them!
This “hoarding” mantra is old and moldy. You must have been sleeping when Elias traded an immediate 140 SS starter and their #6 prospect a couple weeks ago. Or when they traded Oakland’s minor league player of the year last Winter. Maybe don’t be so lazy and repeat specious claims and pay attention to what is actually happening in the organization. Or just don’t comment.
Guessing you’re a CWS fan.
@Ra
Very old. Ortiz was the one guy who he really needed to move. It would’ve been shame for Ortiz to not have a chance at being a big league regular. Cowser & Norby are approaching that territory also. Don’t see an opening for either in the next 2 years. I’d expect them to go by the deadline. I think those 2 have something that they can work on in the minors for a bit though.
Joey had nothing to work on in AAA.
I would bet on him starting ~ 140 games at SS this season.
I do love Jesus Lizard. I know that “Goat” is their definitive album. But for my money, I prefer “Liar”.
Oh wait… you mean Jesus Luzardo?
He’s good too, I suppose 😀
Not even Jesus will help the O’s win the division. AL East belongs to the Yankees. I do think it’s not fair that Brewers demanded Spencer Jones but didn’t demand Holliday from the O’s for Burnes.
The Yankees don’t have near the prospect capital that the Orioles have. There is no comparison between Holliday and Spencer Jones. Holliday is the best prospect in baseball and Jones well he is not.
@mlb
Lmao. DL Hall & Joey Ortiz is a better return than Spencer Jones. Ortiz and Jones are comparable prospects.
Nobody besides you would mention Jones in the same breath as Holliday.
Obtaining Luzardo would be a nice pickup for the Orioles and would go a long way to beefing up a starting pitching staff that let this team down in the playoffs.
Looking at things the way I do, I wouldn’t count on Bradish or Means to offer you many meaningful innings. Bradish is likely to re-injure his arm and ultimately need TJ. Means is struggling through his comeback from his. I think you need to play it safe with Means.
You have to give up something to get something, and I just don’t see the Orioles having pieces they’d be willing to part with that the Marlins may be asking for. Though Basallo is playing catcher now, his long term major league profile has a move to 1b in his future. He’s not a very good defensive catcher. With Ryan Mountcastle’s pending free agency, the Orioles have a roster spot for Sam’s bat at 1b. I can’t see them letting Rustchman walk.
Obtaining a starting pitcher could allow the Orioles to include one back in the deal. I doubt the Marlins would settle for a 4th/5th starter and a couple of AA prospects the Orioles don’t value. It isn’t like the Marlins are desperate to dump Luzardo’s salary.
Considering Basallo has a very strong arm for a Catcher, how do you determine he is “not a very good defensive catcher” currently. That is not his profile from Oriole prospect experts.
You do know there is more to being a catcher than having a strong arm, right? And which “Oriole prospect experts” are you listening to?
Basallo is big and very young.
His glove is behind his very advanced bat. The O’s don’t need him to be an everyday catcher for a long time. I think the bat is ultimately too strong for him to be more than a part time catcher but there’s some potential to stick.
There is no questioning his strength, it is the framing and blocking behind the plate that is lacking in his game. The O’s don’t need a starting catcher with Adley here. If he’s coming up, it isn’t to be a backup catcher.
The opening is there at 1B because Mountcastle isn’t really the bat they thought he’d be. I was never sold on his bat in the first place. He strikes out way too much to consistently hit for a high average, the power is mid tier for a 1b. I mean, they are there for the bat, and 20-25HR isn’t really moving the needle. Mounty is nearing the end of his contract as well, and I don’t see the O’s spending money to keep him with other upcoming franchise cornerstones to consider.
So maybe Sam can be 1B/DH/C when Adley needs a day off.
You made the specious claim that Basallo today is “not a very good defensive catcher.” Cite your sources because I call BS. You show me this analysis from people intimately involved in scouting the team and I will happily provide rebuttal to your personal viewpoint. Waiting.
There’s nothing suspicious about it. Go do some research. He does not grade out as a good defensive catcher. I am sorry you don’t like that, but that’s the book. There is more to being a catcher than a strong throwing arm.
Why don’t you cite your source that says that he’s a great catcher?
From MLBdotCom Top 100 Prospects list:
“If there are any questions at all about Basallo, they are about his ability to stick behind the plate. He’s made strides there, too, and his plus arm helped him throw out 33.1 percent of potential basestealers a year ago. There’s still work to be done on his overall receiving, but his bat will profile just fine at first base, where he’s been getting comfortable defensively to provide some positional flexibility, especially with Adley Rutschman behind the dish in Baltimore.”
The word is “specious.” Look it up since you are unfamiliar.
So they say the 18 year old has made strides behind the plate. That is called praise and is what is expected of 18 year olds. It fails as an indictment. Nowhere does it say his defense is sub-par.
“IF there are questions” about sticking behind the plate come from his size, not his current defensive ability. You have been misinterpreting something negative that scouts are not saying.
Still waiting for a reputable, knowledgable source that says he is a blow average defensive catcher – since you are the one who made the claim and can’t back it up – I’ll play. The MLB writeup doesn’t mesh with your ignorant claim. The fact is there is no “book” that says he is poor at Catcher. btw: There is no 18 year old catcher that one would not say there is work to be done. That’s why they tend to get promoted later than every other position, usually 24 and later.
PS: I never said he was “great,” but I invite you to prove that I did. You can’t of course. You fallaciously tried to put words in my mouth but failed.
So major league baseball is not a good source about baseball. Okay….I can tell I am dealing with a rocket surgeon, I’ve had enough of you now. Run along and yell in your echo chamber about how right you think you are.
I know what the word is and means. Suspicious is a good synonym for it, or are you unaware of this just like Basallo’s ability behind the plate not being very good?
That is called not speaking ill of your own player in public. Right now, as it stands, his defense behind the plate isn’t that good. He is already a large body athlete at 18, we’ll have to wait and see how he fills out in his mid 20’s.
I’m not misinterpreting anything. MLBdotcom’s write up was pretty clear about him. Of course, you don’t like a source that counters your argument. So I will just poo poo on your source and say it isn’t valid either. How you like that?
You can keep on writing all you like, but I have seen how you act on this site. I am gonna go mute you now. I don’t suffer people like you. So have fun replying to yourself,
They DID NOT say he was a poor catcher, like you have falsely claim. Don’t be a LIAR when you are ignorant of a player’s skill set. Maybe the problem is that you are so poorly educated you can’t comprehend what is written.
BS you did not know the word speciuos, so you wrote what you thought was written. And, no, it is not a synonym and would be marked wrong on any high school test. You can’t fool anyone. You were ignorant of the word. LMFAO!!!
Scouts who watch the Orioles agree the 18 YEAR improved tremendously is framing. blocking and preventing passed balls. YOU are not informed enough to know this, That you continue to quote one source – MLB – shows everyone you don’t know shtt about the progress of a young player who would be a freshman in college now. Just go away and take your ill-informed idiotic opinions with you. You are wrong.
You post false BS which is the worst way to act: Pretending to be an authority and getting pissy when proven wrong.