With Matt Chapman still available as we enter late February, Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times writes that “the Mariners have discussed the possibility of” signing the free agent third baseman. It isn’t clear if these discussions could be due-diligence explorations within the front office, or whether or not president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto might have reached out to Chapman’s camp about a potential contract.
Eugenio Suarez was seemingly locked in at Seattle’s third baseman when the offseason began, yet the M’s created a vacancy at the hot corner when Suarez was traded to the Diamondbacks in November. Since Luis Urias was acquired in another trade with the Red Sox about a week before the Suarez deal, the initial expectation was that Urias could potentially take over for Suarez, yet that situation was further altered after another trade — last month’s swap with the Twins that brought Jorge Polanco to the Pacific Northwest. With Polanco now established as the new every second baseman, third base looked to be covered by Urias and Josh Rojas in a platoon, with utilityman Dylan Moore also providing more depth.
Signing Chapman would deliver yet another shakeup to the infield picture, and push Rojas, Urias, and Moore firmly into backup roles unless any got some at-bats spelling Ty France at first base. Since public defensive metrics haven’t traditionally been impressed by the glovework of France, Polanco, or shortstop J.P. Crawford, adding a multi-time Gold and Platinum Glove winner like Chapman would go a long way towards helping the Mariners’ run prevention.
There would also be an offensive upgrade, though not as much as one might imagine. Since the start of the 2021 season, Chapman has posted a 110 wRC+ over 1824 plate appearances, while Urias has a 107 wRC+ in 1219 PA and Rojas a 99 wRC+ in 1410 PA. Urias and Rojas both hit so poorly in 2023 that it obscures their very solid numbers in the previous two years, albeit in less playing time than Chapman received as a true everyday player with the A’s and Blue Jays.
That said, Chapman’s 2023 campaign was also a mixed bag at best at the plate. He got off to a scorching start that won him the AL Player of the Month Award for April, but Chapman then hit only .205/.298/.361 over 467 PA from May 1 to the end of the regular season. A finger injury particularly hampered Chapman over the last couple of months and he ended up with a 110 wRC+ (from 17 homers and a .240/.330/.424 slash line in 581 PA), yet this shaky platform year is quite likely the reason why Chapman has lingered so long on the open market.
Chapman is also a free swinger at the plate, which would seemingly run counter to the Mariners’ offseason goal of improving the lineup’s contact hitting. Seattle’s 25.9% strikeout rate was the second highest of any team in baseball in 2023, yet Chapman has averaged a 29.9% strikeout rate since the start of the 2020 season. Chapman has generally been able to offset his strikeouts by doing a lot of damage when he did make contact, and his barrel and hard-hit ball rates were among the best in the league last year, even if his bottom-line numbers didn’t reflect the quality of his contact.
Beyond the on-field questions, there is also the more practical matter of whether the Mariners can even meet Chapman’s contract demands. It is possible Chapman and agent Scott Boras might have lowered or been willing to lower the asking price this deep into the offseason, yet if that is the case, other rumored suitors as the Giants or Cubs might still be in a better position than the M’s to take advantage, to say nothing or any other mystery teams.
The Mariners’ full purchase of the ROOT Sports Northwest regional sports network has put some added expenses onto the organization’s books, and seemingly limited what the front office has had available to spend this offseason. Roster Resource projects Seattle for a $135MM payroll in 2024, and though Dipoto said that the Mariners were able to spend beyond their $140MM payroll from last season, there doesn’t appear to be a lot of wiggle room available.
Chapman would still require a hefty average annual value even on a shorter-term deal with opt-outs involved, and as mentioned earlier, another club might well be able to outbid Seattle within that kind of unique structure. There is also the fact that Dipoto has traditionally been much more open to trades than pricey free agent signings as a roster-building strategy, as Robbie Ray’s five-year, $115MM contract from the 2021-22 offseason is far and away the biggest deal given to a free agent in Dipoto’s tenure.
As Divish notes, the Mariners have had interest in Chapman in the past, back when the A’s were shopping the third baseman as part of their wide-ranging fire sale after the 2021 season. The Athletics reportedly wanted Noelvi Marte as part of any trade package involving Chapman, and the M’s instead held onto Marte only to eventually move him in the Luis Castillo deal at the 2022 deadline.
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
I don’t believe you
SODOMOJO
Me neither
paddyo furnichuh
I did not read the article, but it seems long just to say that the Marlins have considered signing Chapman for all of 0.7 seconds.
I kid, I scanned the article
D-Nice
You spelled Mariners wrong.
GarryHarris
You didn’t read the article about the Mariners, not the Marlins considering Matt Chapman.
Regardless, the Mariners want to reduce strikeouts and Matt Chapman won’t help them do that.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
The Mariners really didn’t do a great job of reducing strikeouts. Raley, Haniger, Urias, and Polanco are all free swinging sluggers who run high K rates. Dipoto was just making an excuse to justify salary dumping some fan favorites like Suarez and Tom Murphy early in the offseason.
ayrbhoy
Couple things there JK’s beer: beggars can’t be choosers. The FO had 2 choices. Neither one was exactly the best way to improvement but when your owner does not want to invest it’s the only choices the FO had…..A) keep the same 2023 lineup or B) trade away about a dozen players to give you some financial flexibility.
You don’t just need guys with better strikeout rates you need guys who make good decisions on the right pitch to hit. You know who’s been one the best hitters in the League at that since 2019? Mitch Garver.
Since 2019 through now he is one of the best 30 hitters in all of MLB with an average of 130 wRC+ over those last 5 seasons. In 2019 alone he had a whopping 155 wRC+ When he’s healthy he’s killing it. If you look at the games best hitters since 2019 Garver’s 130 wRC+ is tied with Rafael Devers. That wRC+ average is also better than Machado, Trea Turner, Arozarena, Brandon Lowe and Michael Brantley. So…..the M’s vastly improved where it matters: in the middle of the order unlike the majority of the hitters you mentioned.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Oh yeah, some of the new hitters (and Haniger!) are miles better than rolling into the year with Kelenic, Pollock, Teo, La Stella, and Wong, who combined free swinging with zero patience and at times not enough pop to make up for it. The new guys do make better swing decisions and have decent eyes for the zone, but they still run higher than average K rates because they hunt for pitches to drive and swing hard, leading to deep counts and some whiffs. The K% issue wasn’t really the issue it was made out to be early in the offseason when Dipoto was tasked with/forced into slashing some payroll, because if it was, they’d only sign/trade for slap hitters who don’t hit the ball hard enough to escape the marine layer at T-Mobile Park. Like I said, it was a convenient scapegoat so Dipoto could deal away Suarez/Kelenic/Gonzales/White and not re-sign Teo and Murphy so he could get under budget and then build back up with different players. Overall I’m pretty satisfied with their offseason, it just took a lot of twists and turns to get there though!
ayrbhoy
The M’s are in an enviable position – their Pitching is so good the lineup only needs a slight improvement on last year. IMO There really is a lot to be excited about.
I’m most intrigued by Ty France’s commitment to getting back to the 2021 and 2022 hitter…..and from what Ive read Driveline is agreeing with him!
GarryHarris
I was thinking the same. I think the Ms OF will be better this season than last season just as last season’s was better than the year before.
ayrbhoy
I’d take that in a heartbeat! An OF with Julio Raley Haniger and Canzone that outperforms last yrs!? Yessir! As streaky as Teoscar was by the end of the yr he still put up some good numbers. JK started smoking hot…
You say OF I think its our INF that will see a big spike in production this yr. Polanco and a healthy revitalized Ty France will anchor that INF group. Add in Garver and Cal – ……plz stay healthy boys
provoker
Yeah, prove it . Show the video of him discussing with the M’s
Dogbone
I wonder how many teams haven’t discussed signing him?
hoof hearted
The story is a rehash from divish from several days ago.. So this is not New
letsgooakland123
Wonder if Chappy will beat the 10yr, $150mm offer he got from Oakland after the 2019 season.
He already got 2/25 so will he get over 8/125?
TigersLoveCinnamon
He’s made 31.5 million the last 3 years. He easily made the right decision. Unless he takes a short deal he’s getting nothing less than 100 mill. Guessing it’ll be 5 100-125
BrianStrowman9
He also didn’t have to win 60 games a year in Oakland. Think he’ll wind up OK. But definitely was a fair number by Oak.
YankeesBleacherCreature
From ’20-’23, Chapman made $31.5MM. Do you think he can’t make far more than $118.5MM over the next 7 years at a $16.9MM AAV? Sure Oakland’s offer was guaranteed but I think it was smart decision to reject it.
case
Risking it all for an extra 10-30% is a pretty terrible return on a big gamble, though it is a very “Orange County” thing to do.
BrianStrowman9
“Far more”
Don’t know about far more. I figure the bulk of his career earnings are going to come from this contract. He already has K issues—that’s going to get uglier once his bat speed slows down.
JoeBrady
Do you think he can’t make far more than $118.5MM over the next 7 years at a $16.9MM AAV?
============================
It’ll be close. Right now, I think he gets about $100M/5.. Then he needs $18.5M once he is 36. Which he should do. But the upside feels like a whole lot less than the downside.
24TheKid
He will not get 100 mil.
WillieS
At best… somewhere in the 3/45… Bellinger somewhat the same 3/60! Unless you’re 26 and already a consistent stud, the 8/250 deals are over. Thank goodness… I’m tired of watching overpriced players with mediocre stats.
Guest500
How is that easily the right decision? Nobody is given Matt 120 million. And he’ll be out of the league quicker than you think as his game and body are both falling apart. He might get a 4 year 80 million deal than he probably out of the league after it.
unpaidobserver
*Reported
gbs42
That’s what reporters do.
case
*Deferred
SFBay314
An agent using a reporter to create leverage if I have ever seen one.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Ryan Divish doesn’t play those games.
Stevil
Yeah, Divish doesn’t get played by agents. The only question for me is if the questions regarding Chapman were before or after Polanco. I suspect they were before.
If they were after, well, that would speak volumes of what Justin & Jerry think about their infield defense, because Bellinger is a much better fit otherwise.
myaccount2
I agree with IgnorantSOB, Divish is almost certainly reporting directly from a source within the org.
920kodiak
Yeah, Divish is pretty reliable in his reporting.
bob9988 2
Actually, i think it might be the other way around. Divish got it from someone inside the org and so did Shannon Drayer. This might be one of those times the team is leaking their interest out to the agent to say, if you bring the price down, we might be interested in talking. Also might be a play to get Snell to bring his price down too, as the Mariners only have the money to sign one of them, if either at all. Snell has made it known he wants to play in Seattle, maybe he gets scared and drops his demand if he thinks his last chance might slip away.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Aside from a few random things here and there, like a couple of guys asking him about it in passing at a college football game, Snell hasn’t actually indicated he’s interested in pitching for Seattle at a hometown discount. I’m sure he is if the Mariners meet his contract demands, but that’s true of just about any player. That said, I don’t see the fit. The Mariners already have 5 quality starting pitchers, it’s one of the best rotations in baseball and 80% of it is homegrown.
They have bigger question marks on the position player side in terms of health and production. At 3B, they’re considering a platoon of Urias/Rojas. Neither of those guys are that much better than league average. In the outfield, they’re running Haniger/Raley in the corners, with some combination of Canzone/Trammell/Moore/Haggerty as the backup guys. Neither of those guys are particularly healthy or all that good as regular players. Signing Bellinger or Chapman make more sense based on their needs and what they have already.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I was thinking along the lines of signing Snell or trading for Cease which would more easily justify a trade of Woo or Miller to the Reds or Orioles for some hitting. A Santander/Mayo or Santander/Kjerstad in the corner outfield spots would be cool.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
I’m not sure they’d be interested in Cease right now, especially if the price tag includes one of Woo/Miller plus top prospects, as it highly likely does. The White Sox don’t have to really deal him right now and there are other teams who could enter the bid (Orioles just saw two of their starters get hurt).
I think more than anything the Mariners believe their roster is set for now, so unless something happens they aren’t going to make any significant changes beyond the back half of the 40-man (Canaan Smith-Njigba getting waived for Levi Stoudt type moves). They like having a strong pipeline of prospects ready for midseason call ups and swinging deadline trades. Dipoto is all about long term sustainability (hence the of 54% comments he made right after the WS). He likes having a team that sits around 85-90ish wins and can sometimes push into the playoffs. Like the Cardinals before they tanked last year.
ayrbhoy
JK’s Beer – I agree man, SEA has zero interest in Cease if it costs a Miller or Woo. Why trade a young SP with high ceilings and much more control for a Pitcher that has looked amazing at times but has also looked both volatile and pedestrian! The M’s could benefit from adding another SP as depth but not by subtracting a Pitcher.
Tbh why would BAL or SEA make further trades at this point? If I’m the Orioles I’m keeping all those young hitters, that filthy BP and riding Corbin Burnes to another AL East. Young controllable talent, depth and a Top 3 Farm System: Its a good time to be an Orange and Black Bird fan.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
The Orioles are pretty close to a roster crunch with all their young bats and prospects but they also don’t have to deal Jackson Holliday to get anybody they’d want. They can afford to consolidate some of that prospect capital into a solid #2/3 pitcher like Cease and really push themselves from division winners to a legitimate world series threat. Cease doesn’t have to be the ace, they have Burnes for that, but as a game 2 starter he’s a great option.
DonOsbourne
I think I would roll with Urias/Rojas based on cost, but it’s close. That glove plays.
Seamaholic
Third base defense is massively overrated. Nice to have a guy as special as Chapman, but Urias and Rojas are long time middle infielders and I bet they can do at least an average job over there. The difference between average and elite at 3B just isn’t worth that kind of cash. If they’ve got that much money sitting around, sign Jordan Montgomery and trade an SP for a good, cheap corner infielder.
DonOsbourne
It depends on the contract. One thing I will say is that generally I would be concerned about the effect playing in Seattle would have on a player’s offense. But since Chapman came up with Oakland, I feel like his career numbers probably translate pretty well to what you could expect in Seattle.
marinersfan1977
“third base defense is massively overrated”
Seriously? Seattle fans have been spoiled with Geno and before that, with Kyle Seager. If they can make a short-term deal work with Chapman, I’m in — because I understand the important of defense at THE HAWT CORNER!
JM108
Beltre before that.
filihok
Sa
“The difference between average and elite at 3B just isn’t worth that kind of cash”
You don’t believe that a run saved is a run saved?
D-Nice
He probably meant that 3B is a reaction position. You don’t need the range at third that you do in the middle IF. And both guys penciled in right now were middle infielders.
filihok
R-N
Maybe they meant that
But they didn’t write anything like that
JM108
Suuure
GarryHarris
Although 1B and 3B are for stronger offensive players, great defenders aren’t massively overrated; they are massively undervalued.
If you’re building a position up, it’s best to start with a super defender and pinch hit in the crucial spots ala Earl Weaver, Billy Martin, Whitey Herzog and Bobby Cox…. Make someone beat him out for the position.
It’s a philosophy that I wished the rebuilding Detroit Tigers used when they had all those great defensive players. Instead, they preferred and still prefer using a DH at every position.
mlb fan
I’ve showed “interest” and “internally discussed” and “touched base” with the Tom Brady’s ex, Gisele Bundchen camp.
Joe Kerr
I wish you the best of luck!
unpaidobserver
You’ve become engaged: report.
mlb1225
Matt Chapman’s last three years have been so inconsistent. He’ll have one great month, then forget how to hit the next two or three months.
solaris602
Last year was his most obvious vanishing act at the plate, and those outs were unproductive for the most part especially when you look at his K rate. Great D and he does a good job staying on the field. Signing him for longer than 3 years is a major mistake.
mlb1225
Wonder why he’s become so strikeout prone. In 2018-2019, he had a 22.8% K-rate, which was about average. Since then he’s struck out about 30% of the time.
Canuckleball
He had hip surgery Sept 2020 after having hip issues.
I remember it being discussed a while back but the theory was that he never fully bounced back and his swing changed as a result. He’s never been able to get back into the stance or swing he used to use.
At least that’s what was suggested at the time, and it does seem to fit the timeline of his change in offensive fortunes.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
He still has a decent eye (despite the rising K%, he’s been walking at a 10% clip over the years too), and can still run into a few dingers. The beauty of Chapman possibly going to the Mariners is that he doesn’t need to be The Guy™️ who carries the team on his back.
Braves_saints_celts
Juat do it, I don’t care what team signs him, Snell, Montgomery, or bellinger, just get it done, spring training is here, baseball is back, and they deserve to be in a team ready to go. So wether it’s the teams balking at their years or salary, or it’s the players not wanting to compromise and work something out, someone needs to get their s*** together and figure this out, asap. Not too many teams left to choose from though, I see the angels, giants, cuba and possibly the sleeper tigers, or pirates doing something. Rockies need to go sign someone too, they’ve been very boring this year, go get Eddie Rosario or something geeze.
Spotswood
I just emailed Boras with your thoughts…crossing my fingers!
Seamaholic
Why would the Rockies want to sign someone? They’re rebuilding and have a class of young dudes on the way. Specifically related to Chapman, they got basically the same player at third already in Ryan McMahon.
Braves_saints_celts
I never once said, or even indicated that the Rockies need to sign Chapman or a high priced free agent, I simply said they’ve been boring and need to sign someone like Eddie Rosario, which goes based on an earlier mlb trade rumors post about them potentially seeking a left handed hitting outfielder. As far as the high priced free agents I mentioned a few decent clubs that could possibly sign them.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Rockies don’t know how to rebuild properly. They still legitimately think they can win 90+ games any given year despite all the evidence proving otherwise.
shortstop09
We are better off with what we have. He is a great defender but not a good hitter.
unpaidobserver
For two to three week stretches, there’s nobody better….two or three times a year.
JoeBrady
but not a good hitter.
=======================
Still a 108 OPS+.
Edp007
Not worth signing. Problem. Declining skills , poor character
Seamaholic
What’s wrong with his character? Never heard that before.
Edp007
Showed up the manager publicly , vehemently questioned his strategy in the dugout with cameras rolling
filihok
Edp
Sounds like a leader to me
ayrbhoy
Is this the same manager that not only pulled an unhittable Kevin Gausman with two outs in the 6th inning of a must win Wild Card series? Then brought in a LHP which turned switch hitting Carlos Santana around to his better power side? Then watched his LHP give up a 3R HR to Santana? That manager?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Source on character?
Edp007
He basically pulled a Kelce but much worse after ohtani hit a hr. Source? Watching it on television with 5 million others
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
“Pulled a Kelce” as in the way he yelled at Reid during the SuperBowl?? Chapman did that to Schneider?? Hmmmmm . Weird.
Edp007
reddit.com/r/Torontobluejays/comments/15czk68/am_i…
Edp007
sportsnet.ca/mlb/video/blue-jays-chapman-gets-mad-…
case
After 3 years of watching him on the A’s I don’t think he came off as friendly in a single interview or dugout cut shot.
Edp007
JD jr
myaccount2
You cited this Reddit thread in which just about everyone is indifferent. Nobody is really hating on Schneider but nobody is really hating on Chapman either.
Edp007
Reddit post is admittedly useless. Right or wrong on strategy.
Point is no mlb team likes that type of behaviour.
Black mark
Paleobros
Kelce pulled a Chapman
TMQ
Then why did you post it? Just admit you’re spewing fabricated nonsense. Unless you can actually provide a single reliable source or former team mate supporting your ridiculous claims.
Edp007
Google Chapman blows up at Schneider. On utube etc Reddit
myaccount2
Well the funny thing is that Chapman was right about that. Schneider is a buffoon who shouldn’t be managing in the big leagues.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
YouTube and reddit aren’t really legit sources, friend.
BigRedMachine
I don’t buy that the Mariners are in on Chapman for a minute. It would have to be a contract that has such a reduced number of years than he initially wanted. No doubt about it, Chapman has a great glove but he is so inconsistent at the plate, does not put the ball in play at a high rate, and strikes out quite a bit. If the Mariners some how now have this type of cash
Money all of a sudden then go get Blake Snell, he is from Seattle and wants to come home.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Yes indeed! If suddenly there is money magically available, use it to sign hometown boy Snell instead!!! That’s a no-brainer!
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
After trading Robbie Ray because he cost them too much. Brilliant idea
myaccount2
The M’s didn’t trade Ray because he cost too much, they traded him because he was overpaid, out for half the season, and projected as the 5th or 6th best SP on the team going forward. He is light years worse than Snell.
BigRedMachine
You can never, ever, have enough pitching. Could they get Snell at a cheaper rate at this point in the fee agent market? Less years? Robbie Ray had Tommy John surgery and is out until August, do we know he was going to be good when he returns? I don’t love Snell and you never know wheat version you are going to get of him, but you have two young, talented, guys at the end of your rotation that have never pitched an entire MLB season. You should not use the word brilliant in your vocabulary.
TMQ
Sorry but the Mariners have the best pitching staff in baseball.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Injuries I agree with you but Snell can’t stay on the mound for 5 innings half the games he pitches, so I wouldn’t call that great.
Ray has a respectable ERA and the best strikeout ratio of any pitcher in baseball today. Giants are going to benefit from that trade.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Let me know when the M’s get ranked #1 for starting pitching this year. They have a lot of young guys who don’t have the experience, so I wouldn’t call that best. Plus, a lot of their pitchers have only pitched a couple good years but nothing consistent.
Although he’s been injured, Ray at least has a consistent strikeout rate year to year, which is highly impressive.
JoeBrady
use it to sign hometown boy Snell instead!!! That’s a no-brainer!
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I thought they already had 5 SPs?
bob9988 2
More like 4 and a half.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Joe you know a team can never have too much pitching, but other than that, it would allow Jerry to trade Bryan Woo or Bryce Miller for a needed big bat.
myaccount2
I would even be fine if we didn’t trade one of Miller or Woo, ran out the 5 with the other in AAA, and saved that arm for an inevitable injury. I think with that pitching depth, the offense would be sufficient–at least until the trade deadline.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I’m sorry, I just don’t see the M’s as that good, either offensively or pitching-wise. Who would you consider their ace?
They seem like they’re good but not over the top good. Aside from Julio Rodriguez, who leads the offense? Please don’t tell me Mitch Haniger.
They might be “decent” but the rotation looks young and inexperienced, the offense looks so-so, and I’m not sure that’s enough to compete with Astros or Rangers. Obviously, anything can happen but they don’t impress me. Maybe compete for a wild card spot at best….
I know Ray was injured, but I don’t think they got a good enough MLB-ready return for him, and when he returns to the Giants, he’s going to be good with that strikeout rate. No other pitcher had a better strikeout rate, and that already made him a great pitcher. They potentially made the Giants better with a healthy Ray.
AlienBob
I agree. The M’s have a good starting lineup on paper but someone is going to get hurt. They have absolutely no depth at AAA. Sign Snell if you have money available. They need one more and a LH pitcher would be ideal.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Ol’ 5 inning overpriced Snell to save the day. Sounds like a bad idea to me. They’re better off moving on and fixing weaker areas
McGrundle
He has one of them molesterstaches.
unpaidobserver
He reportedly has a mustache.
YankeesBleacherCreature
There is distinction between “discussed” and “interested in” I think.
Bluejaystud
Enjoy, He will ground into a inning ending, momenting killing double play anytime you need him. Loves to hit homeruns and doubles on occasion when the score is lopsided in either direction.
case
He’s definitely a superstar against the Tiger’s number 4 starter.
unpaidobserver
Everybody’s got to be good at something.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I think you summed up the Blue Jay’s 2023 season in a nutshell, and now they’re downgrading. Good luck.
JoeBrady
He will ground into a inning ending, momenting killing double play anytime you need him.
================================
LOL!
Out of the 133 players that FG lists, Chapman was ranked 129th in DPs. That means only FOUR guys hit into more DPs.
There must have been 6 guys on base on those GDP in order to see an issue with it.
But more importantly, how can that get 3 upvotes?
shortstop09
Yes if they do have enough to sign a big $ free agent sign Snell. A lefty would help and we could move Woo or Miller for Marte to play 3rd. If not I think the platoon we have will be fine.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
They should have never traded Robbie Ray in that place… he’s better than Snell
BigRedMachine
Robbie Ray had Tommy John surgery last year. Blake Snell won the Cy Young award. Really?
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Robbie Ray won a Cy Young too, or are you conveniently leaving that out?
Blake Snell barely breaks 5 innings a game while Ray can go 6 or 7 and post a similar, if not better, strikeout rate. That strikeout rate alone already makes him a good pitcher. By the way, Snell only had two great seasons mixed in with a bunch of half decent ones. Ray has a respectable FIP over his career, which isn’t great, but good enough with that strikeout rate.
Yes, I’m serious. Cy Young doesn’t really dictate anything, but if you want to use that argument, Ray has one too.
bob9988 2
He’s also hurt and wont pitch until Aug at the earliest, if at all this year. And no guarantee that he will be like he was before.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
That’s patently false.
TMQ
Sorry but no one with any knowledge of baseball would support your ludicrous statement that Robby Ray is better then Blake Snell.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
@TMQ
Well, I gave you my reasons and you have yet to give facts to yours, so take it or leave it. I think you overpay for Snell who won’t get you a full 7 innings. He could end up better but not much better overall.
Either way, it’s a stupid move to trade Ray and then pivot to another pitcher for a lot of money who could questionable be better or not on the mound.
The problem is people live by the year. They think someone is the best pitcher after a Cy Young year but they don’t look at the full career. Snell had a contract year and had some bad years too.
Snell could be better on a given year but is it really worth the money they spent? Seems stupid for them to trade Ray then pivot to someone else. I think whoever signs Snell for who he is is making a terrible mistake.
Halo11Fan
And the reporters source….? Boras.
yeasties
Just listened to Divish’s podcast dated 2-14, then read the article dated 2-17 that Mark linked to.
On 2-14, Divish, Jude and Stone shoot the breeze and speculate about Chapman. On 2-17, Divish reports a very weak M’s have “discussed the possibility”. Occams Razor: I think the source is someone in the M’s organization that heard the 2-14 podcast and said something like “hey, we did talk about Chapman” in passing at Spring Training. Mariners moves usually come out of nowhere. so this is almost certainly a big nothing burger.
Halo11Fan
That makes a lot of sense. Who does it behoove to leak these rumors? Boras or the player..
The only other explanation is speculation on someone speculating.
Speculating is fun, but I’ll believe it when it happens.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
How will they afford him? They just traded Robbie Ray away, which i thought was for financial stability, so what direction are the Mariners going? Head scratching… they’re almost as bad as the Red Sox.
JoeBrady
They just traded Robbie Ray away, which i thought was for financial stability,
======================
I assume it was because they already had 5 SPs.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
They might have but Ray is one of the better pitchers. Made no sense to me
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Ray can’t stay on the mound and he served up a cockshot fastball to Yordan in the ALDS. He is not a good pitcher, he got really lucky in 2021.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Not a good pitcher? Check out Ray’s career FIP and strikeout ratio. He might not be the best overall but his strikeout ratio is phenomenal. Giants are going to benefit from that. Health is a question,but when healthy, his strikeout rate alone is what makes him a great pitcher.
BigRedMachine
The Mariners are heading in a positive direction as they added some key pieces this year. Polanco at second, Mitch Garver free agent signing at DH, Luke Raley, Mitch Haniger and reliever Gregory Santos ands they KEPT all of their young pitching arms. I believe they are trying to put a team together that has an outstanding starting and relief pitching and puts the ball in play at a higher rate. Every single comment you make on here is negative and degrading.
Blackpink in the area
If the Mariners can find some money under the couch cushions it seems like Snell would make more sense. Snell is from the area and they need a lefty in their rotation
letsplaytwo
letsplaytwo1 second ago
SNELL NO!!! You do realize that Snell has only pitched more than 130 innings twice in his career, right? He leads the world in bases on balls, is 31-years old, and worst of all, is a Boras client with idiotic contract demands.
Blackpink in the area
Well its February 18th. He can keep demanding but he needs a place to play.
The Voices
A 31 year old declining matt chapman along with his problem personality. No way. Pass.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
He may walk a lot of batters, but notice he gives up very few hits and more importantly, very few homeruns. So those walked batters rarely come around to hurt him. He also stratgically walks certain batters as well, preferring they get a walk off of him rather than a hit.
Jackalopal
Idk man I think I’d rather just have Eugenio and a relaxing off-season if I was DiPoto.
Armaments216
Exactly. Suarez was cheaper and near the end of his contract which had a nice team option. It makes no sense to trade Suarez only to turn around and commit much more money for a similar player in Chapman. And lose a draft pick for signing Chapman too.
filihok
Arm
“Suarez was cheaper and near the end of his contract which had a nice team option. It makes no sense to trade Suarez only to turn around and commit much more money for a similar player in Chapman. ”
FG projections
Suarez 95 wRC+, 1.5 WAR
Chapman 107 wRC- 3.2 WAR
Why do you think they are similar?
Armaments216
Good defense with a lot of streaky swing and miss at the plate. FG is much more bullish on Chapman than I would be. Particularly if I’m committing anything beyond 2024.
filihok
Arm
“FG is much more bullish on Chapman than I would be. Particularly if I’m committing anything beyond 2024.”
Those are 2024 only projections
Armaments216
For Suarez you get that 2024 production without any commitment beyond 2024, and even have a no-risk team option for 2025. For Chapman you’re very likely committing money beyond 2024 to get that 2024 production.
filihok
Arm
Sure
This was the question.
“Why do you think they are similar?”
They still don’t seem at all similar to me
Armaments216
Depends on your perspective I guess. I see two good defensive 3B who hit from the right side, are about a year apart in age, and have the following career numbers to date:
.240/.329/.461
.237/.342/.456
filihok
Arm
“have the following career numbers to date:”
Those are pretty incomplete numbers to look at
Chapman 4.6 fWAR/600 PA
Suarez 2.7 fWAR/600 PA
Armaments216
Plenty of different ways to view it but it’s also incomplete to ignore the financial side. IMHO the Mariners would have been better off in the short term, and much better off in the long term, in keeping Suarez and reallocating the financial resources elsewhere in the roster — as compared to any small marginal expected production increase they’d get by spending all those resources to swap in Chapman for Suarez.
filihok
Arm
It’s perfectly complete to ignore the financial aspect when. Looking at this
“for a similar player in Chapman.”
It may have made sense to keep Suarez, but they really aren’t similar players.
It may
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Chapman has consistently played much better defense across the board and was a slightly better hitter last year. Suarez had a career year on defense by some metrics but other metrics didn’t like him so overall he was just average in the field. He’s also 3 years older and fell off harder at the plate from 2022. Mariners were probably right to deal him, and time will tell if Urias/Rojas can be as good or better for less money, or if Chapman’s price tag comes down enough for the Mariners to justify signing him within their budget constraints.
The Voices
Would rather have Corbin Carol or Acuna or Juan So-so.
Datashark
Mariners are there to push the price tag up on SF – I expect JD Davis goes in trade to Seattle
lee cousins
Interesting thought, that might be something to look into if it could gain any traction.
lee cousins
I’m not moved to bring in Chapman. Nothing wrong with kicking the tires though. His defense maybe good but not enough to offset his otherwise strikeouts, and inconsistencies do we also need to mention his cost as well? If a one year contract was available I might pause to consider but how likely would that be. If he except something like that he would have been gone by now.
Michol
Giants playing hardball with Boras !!!! Let’s see who will blink first… You can bet all of his clients are now having sleepless nights.
splinkysf
Golly, I wonder if someone whose name rhymes with Bott Scoras out this out there…
acoss13
Surprised Boras hasn’t enlisted his guy, Jon Heyman, about a mystery team being interested in Chapman.
Highly unlikely that Mariners sign Chapman, more likely suitor would be the Cubs.
Michol
Johnny Damon!
DarrenDreifortsContract
I already knew he was a Boras client before even looking it up.
When will non stars learn not to sign with him?
kdevry
Probably when they stop getting paid!?? I’m no Boras fan but dude “rakes” as an agent
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Hell James Paxton still gets paid every year even though he spends 80% of the time on the IL these days.
popitforpoppa
dodgers please
ActionDan
It’s kinda funny how these Oakland A’s players are hot commodities when they are in Oakland and get traded for a ransom and aren’t any good with their new teams. Not all but most. Has anyone noticed that?
filihok
AD
No
Matt Olson was passable last year. As was Sean Murphy. Chapman had 2 solid years in Toronto. Mark Canha has been fine…
Canuckleball
Also, it’s fair to say few of the trade returns could be said to be ‘a ransom’. Chapman cost very little in prospects and I recall most folks being stunned by the light return for Murphy…
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Lol what? Matt Olson was a top 5 player in the NL last year.
JoeBrady
LOL! That’s an insane statement.
kdevry
NO!
filihok
“push Rojas, Urias, and Moore firmly into backup roles unless any got some at-bats spelling Ty France at first base.”
Perhaps I’m confused about what a backup is
holycow16
I bet a lot of teams considered signing him…
Stevil
That was likely before they acquired Polanco. Signing him now would likely meaning trading one of Rojas-Urías.
They aren’t likely going to option players making 3-5m each, Moore is their backup SS, and Canzone is currently needed as the backup for Haniger.
There just isn’t a clear for. Then there’s the issue of Ks and four bad months at the plate.
Stevil
Love the autocorrect.
There isn’t a clear *fit.
And to elaborate further, the bench with have Moore & Zavala, plus an outfielder. The wouldn’t have room for both Rojas and Urías.
Bellinger would make a lot more sense for Seattle if they’re willing to spend. They could option Canzone and have Haniger as the fourth outfielder getting PAs in place of Raley when a LHP is on the mound.
its_happening
M’s would be better off with Urshela over a sunken cost of Chapman with glaring holes in his offensive production that will be exploited in Seattle. If Teoscar had trouble, Chapman will be worse.
Canuckleball
Except Teoscar was strikeout prone and unable to take a walk. Chapman, while also strikeout prone, has always been able to take walks. It’s a weird profile, but it does raise the floor of his offense.
its_happening
Except Teoscar could hit, Chapman cannot. People need to understand that any average player can walk against a bad pitcher. Hit ability matters when facing good pitchers who don’t walk many.
Guys who can’t hit the baseball lowers their profile when the baseball games count. Chapman will get ruined in that Seattle park where he has never hit well in his career.
Canuckleball
Teoscar’s only value is hitting, as he’s generally been putrid in the field. Also, if any average hitter can take walks, are you saying Teoscar is not even an average hitter?
Chapman is a guy you get for his glove and if he gives a little above average hitting (which he usually does) then that’s enough. To me, Chapman is like the 3rd base equal to Kevin Kiermaier, a great defender with a solid but not spectacular bat.
its_happening
What I am saying is a Walker who generally does not hit well for average tend to fair poorly against good pitchers. Chapman, who’s hit horrendous in Seattle throughout his career, will struggle in that park as well.
Walks really aren’t a favourable stat unless your bat is so strong that pitchers pitch tentatively. Pitchers do not pitch Chapman tentatively.
Not a casual MLB fan
This is exactly why (among other things) that I hope the Cubs don’t sign Chapman.
KamKid
In what way is Chapman a free swinger?
Canuckleball
per the article:
“Chapman has averaged a 29.9% strikeout rate since the start of the 2020 season.”
Pretty sure that’s what he meant by free swinger… it’s just code for ‘strikes out a lot’
KamKid
I guess. That’s not how I would describe a free swinger. To me he’s quite the opposite. He’s quite selective as evidenced by the 9th best chase rate among qualified hitters last year, good walk rates, and good quality of contact metrics. His issue isn’t the approach. It’s the whiff rates. Especially on pitches in the zone. Maybe being more free swinging would lower the K rates for him as he wouldn’t be working deep counts. Not sure that’s the route to more success for him though. I think he has a good approach for the limited bat to ball skills he has. He does damage when he connects and he’s enough of a threat to draw walks. To me, a free swinging Chapman would end up with a slash line like Varsho’s. Limited bat to ball skills with a terrible plate approach and you’ll strike out less but have terrible batted ball metrics and an anemic OBP.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
He’s not so much a free swinger as his swing is geared towards lifting the ball hard and high over the fence. He’s got a pretty good eye and doesn’t make dumb choices like swinging at junk 3 feet off the plate.
its_happening
When he swings, he usually doesn’t make contact?
JoeBrady
This would be a good move for the Mariners. He is still roughly a 4-WAR player on a slight decline.
League Minimum
Chapman is basically a slightly better Suarez. Probably worth considering a two year, incentive-based contract that allows him to opt-out after one season. Much like Turner’s deal with the Saux (but w/ incentives).
Two years, $35M. Tops.
League Minimum
Extra bonus. Signing Chapman would allow the Mariners to finally end the Dylan Moore failed experiment.
JM108
D Mo will be 32 and they will still be propagating his value and potential.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
DMo is an excellent utility player. He doesn’t make a lot of contact but he has a good eye and can run into a couple dingers here and there. The defensive versatility and speed are his lost valuable skillsets. That’s really all you can ask for from your 26th man.
Mrski
Yanks are interested
hoof hearted
This story is a rehash from devish from many days ago. This is not new info.
808sAndMetsHeartbreaks
Mariners should sign him for 54% of the season since he’s only good in the first half.
lee cousins
From what I’m getting from the M’s is they would like to have Chapman. Even though Chapmans game has taken a setback he is still regarded as an upgrade over what they feel they have. Does the money justify him? Only if your name is Boras.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
I’d do it if the cost was 15-20M per year, but Chapman (well, Boras) still wants 25-30M per.