The Giants continue to explore the markets for Blake Snell and Matt Chapman as March draws near, reports Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle. One source tells Slusser there’s roughly a 50-50 chance that San Francisco comes away with one of those players.
Snell would address the bigger need, at least in the short term. San Francisco has a patchwork rotation behind Cy Young runner-up Logan Webb. The Giants signed longtime reliever Jordan Hicks to a four-year deal with the promise of a rotation job. Hicks’ personal high in innings at the MLB level is 77 2/3 from his 2018 rookie season. He hasn’t reached the 70-inning mark since then.
The options beyond Hicks are even less established. Kyle Harrison is one of the sport’s most talented pitching prospects, but he has seven MLB games under his belt. The southpaw averaged fewer than four innings per appearance over 20 Triple-A starts a year ago. That was partially to keep his workload in check but also reflected his inefficiency. Harrison struck out an excellent 35.6% of Triple-A opponents but walked upwards of 16% of batters faced.
Webb, Hicks and Harrison are the three locks for the Opening Day staff. Alex Cobb will begin the year on the injured list as he works back from hip surgery. Robbie Ray won’t be ready until around the All-Star Break at the earliest during his rehab from last year’s Tommy John procedure. Keaton Winn and Tristan Beck entered camp with the presumed edge on the fourth and fifth rotation spots. They’ve each been set back by injury during exhibition play. Winn was delayed by elbow soreness, although he maintained over the weekend he expects to be ready for Opening Day. Beck just left the team to undergo testing after experiencing discomfort in his right hand.
A starting five of Webb, Hicks, Harrison, Winn and Beck is already not ideal for a team that hopes to compete for a playoff spot. Losing either Winn or Beck would require dipping further into depth options like Sean Hjelle, Ethan Small, prospect Kai-Wei Teng or a non-roster invitee like Daulton Jefferies or Tommy Romero.
While Snell hasn’t been a consistent source of volume throughout his career, he’s coming off his second 180-inning season. He’d upgrade any rotation and would afford the Giants the luxury of plugging in the top two finishers in last year’s NL Cy Young voting. There’d still be some questions about the staff’s durability, but a top three of Webb, Snell and Harrison would have one of the highest ceilings in the league.
Of course, the question is whether they’ll line up on an agreeable price point. No team has yet met Snell’s ask. Jon Heyman of the New York Post wrote this afternoon that the southpaw may be open to considering a short-term offer that allows him to opt out and retest free agency. Fellow Boras Corporation client Cody Bellinger took that route on a three-year, $80MM pact with the Cubs over the weekend. It’s hard to envision Snell turning in a better platform season than the one he had in 2023, though. He allowed only 2.25 earned runs per nine over the course of the year and turned in a 1.23 mark from June onward.
The Yankees have reportedly had an offer out to Snell for weeks. Heyman reported this morning that his camp spoke with New York brass again yesterday but didn’t have any kind of breakthrough. The Angels have also been loosely linked to Snell.
Chapman, on the other hand, doesn’t play a position of strict need. The Giants have a solid third baseman in J.D. Davis. Were they to land Chapman, they’d likely flip Davis to a team with a more pressing desire for help at the hot corner. President of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi and new manager Bob Melvin both have ties to Chapman from their days with the A’s. He’d markedly upgrade the infield defense, although it’s debatable whether he’s enough of an offensive improvement on Davis to make that move worthwhile.
Zaidi recently suggested the team was unlikely to make any more free agent splashes this offseason. Perhaps that was simply public posturing or the recent health uncertainty surrounding Winn and Beck could change the calculus. In any case, San Francisco should have payroll flexibility. Roster Resource projects their 2024 spending around $164MM. They’re at roughly $213MM in luxury tax obligations. That puts them about $24MM shy of both the base CBT threshold and last year’s Opening Day payroll.
Signing Snell, in particular, would likely push them into luxury tax territory — especially if they added him on a higher-AAV deal to avoid a lengthy commitment. It’d be easier to fit Chapman onto the ledger without going into CBT range, since they’d then have reason to shed Davis’ $6.9MM salary in trade.
The fees for surpassing the luxury tax would be relatively modest if they edged past $237MM. They’d only owe a 20% tax on spending between $237MM and $257MM. The Giants last paid the CBT in 2017. Snell and Chapman each declined the qualifying offer; signing either player would cost the Giants their second-highest pick in the upcoming draft and $500K in international bonus pool space.
geg42
If they get both players, they could be worth watching on days Webb doesn’t start.
IIRC Webb had some of the lowest run support in the league.
Wtp
Chapman is not worth watching
Pete'sView
Or paying for. A clear “pass” for the Giants.
smuzqwpdmx
Speaking as a Blue Jays fan, Chapman is a lot of fun to watch play defense. Just frustrating to watch at the plate and absurdly pricey for a defensive specialist in his 30s.
TellItGoodbye
3/100 opt outs.
wvredsfan
I was thinking 4/120 with opt outs… but 3/100 with opt out may get one of them
PutPeteinthehall
Are you kidding? Chapman would be lucky to average 18-20 m over five seasons. No way he’s getting 33m per season.
TellItGoodbye
I was speaking of Snell, not Chapman.
LLGiants64
zzzzz…. The Giants have been “in” on all the quality players this year.
stymeedone
But no one signs until the Giants get involved. Unfortunately, they usually sign elsewhere.
Skebinx
That seems to be the trend, even if anecdotally. I haven’t followed SFG a lot. What seems to be the issue with signing/playing there?
labial
There is no Judge in SF.
bag o ballz
Mainly it is the ballpark as far as position players go, especially lefties. The park is really good at suppressing homers which is one of the reasons the Giants are the only team that hasn’t had a 30 homer guy since bonds retired and it becomes a bit of a spiral where because no one signs it gets an even worse rep for being a pitchers park.
YankeesBleacherCreature
They’re in the same division as the Dodgers.
CleaverGreene
Cheap owner. Tough hitters park.
Pete'sView
Oracle Park (SF’s park) is rated as “neutral” since the fences have been rearranged. A RH hitter should be able to do quite well, and a LH hitter’s chances have vastly improved.
bag o ballz
It has gotten better but the image remains. It is still vastly better for right handers though, lefties still come to the park and go into a home run trot only to end up scrambling for a single when a ball that would be a homer in a ton of other parks hits of the bricks and comes back to the infield
VANTABLACK
The city’s reputation is the major cause. Buster Posey even acknowledged it as the cause.
Good players want to play with other good players, which they are short on and players lack faith that they will add stars given how frugal they have been,
The ballpark isn’t really an issue anymore. They brought in right field a bit and closed the breezeways so it hits like most other parks.
Hardest division in baseball to boot.
bag o ballz
that isn’t true – it is A factor not THE reason. the owners also haven’t been frugal they just haven’t been spendy – last year the giants were not in the top ten in spending but far from the bottom 10 – (last year came in at 11) with over 3 times the bottom payrolls. like I always say – can they do better – yes are they bottom of the barrel – no.
towinagain
Of course the Padres aren’t even mentioned as a possibility.
Not one notable minot league signing and holes all over the roster.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Give it rest, you hate your team we get it
lloyd_christmas
that teams got more holes than a pair of John Cena’s jorts. lucky for us because we can’t see them.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Well said har.. I mean lloyd lmao
towinagain
So many “profiles” on here haha.
Bots, and an inordinate amount of fake profiles masquerading as authentic support of an organization in MLB that doesn’t allow for parity.
The Padres will also be given the short end of the stick by baseball this year with a dead ball and unfavorable strike zone.
Go Go Power Rangers
Whether it be the passing of Seidler or lack of results the last two seasons, the Padres are trying a new approach. No one is out to get them. They spent the money it didn’t work, now they’re trying something new. My favorite team is coming off of a championship and they’ve done mostly nothing this off-season. It’s the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
filihok
tia
“So many “profiles” on here haha.
Bots, and an inordinate amount of fake profiles masquerading as authentic support of an organization in MLB that doesn’t allow for parity.
The Padres will also be given the short end of the stick by baseball this year with a dead ball and unfavorable strike zone.”
Hmm
Maybe you’re not a troll. Maybe it’s just some kind of paranoia disorder
Have you seen anyone?
gravel
Let’s make every post about the Padres all season long.
towinagain
Sounds good to me.
Not going to let an organization in the Padres that has pulled a complete 180 and refuses to sign players not receive scrutiny.
The Padres organization has given up on its fans.
Ubaldo Jimenez
Towinagain – respectfully, or not, STFU. The Pads went for it, they misfired terribly, the end. Your tirade and… whatever else you’re insinuating reeks of personal anguish over reason.
stymeedone
You must have been a bandwagon fan. If you were a fan before the spending began, you would have read all the predictions that it would be temporary for all the reasons it ended up being temporary. (The owners passing accelerated the process. R.I.P.) A long time fan would have expected this.
towinagain
No.
Again, the Padres refuse to sign players, to even minor league deals.
This influx of ‘dissent’ by a majority of ‘new’ profiles is comical.
Facts are…the Padres have holes all over their roster and refuse to sign players to even minor league deals.
towinagain
It’s because the Padres have operated on fire sales throughout their history that criticism is merited.
Post 84′ reduction, early 90s firesale, post 98 salary dump, post 2007 reduction, trading Jake Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez, post 2010 season.
This organization has done this over and over and over again.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
You should see the Red Sox threads.
DonkMcCronklin
Wahhh. People don’t agree with me! They must be trolls or bots because my opinion is always the correct one.
What is wrong with you? You really think someone would create bots or new accounts to disagree with you? You sound like an elderly person with diminished mental faculties.
DonkMcCronklin
Then shut up and find a new team.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Maybe if you supposed fans showed up to that beautiful stadium they wouldn’t have to cut costs. Every petco game I went to was basically a giants home game
Roll
@tow
i dont think you actually follow Padres other than maybe their minor leagues because every year for what the past decade they have spent big (either through extension or free agency) on a contract. They also will have those spending sprees for pretty much another decade.
As of now they have had what one playoff appearance with their large contracts? … i guess you could give them a half for the shortened season but a season where Voit is the MVP and Dom Smith was in the running for MVP as questionable.
Also to say they signed no one would also be incorrect as they got a couple of very good foreign players and one of the better lefty relievers for a few years for their major league team. Along with some solid young pitchers for the future.
maybe actually know your team instead of complain about “minor league deals”
PutPeteinthehall
Money issues period.
Gwynning
Can we trade tow to your Sox, Señor Breslow? He’s consistent, you can pencil him into your line-up as a daily poster… doesn’t hit for a lot of power, but he’s always thinking about his defense. Seems to walk (and/or trail off…) a lot. Will take your best offer.
Roll
If im Breslow i would have to ask what else you adding to take that bad contract off your hands 🙂
splinkysf
Lol. I wonder why.
Os1995
You look stupid constantly complaining about the least selfish ownership group in the league. You have one of the highest payrolls and one of the lowest revenues
towinagain
Reduce payroll dramatically and raise ticket prices…thats called profit.
The post Peter Seidler ownership group refuses to spend money.
Os1995
You are still bringing in bottom of the league payroll and top of the league spending. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Oakland all bring in more money than the Padres. You’re ownership is still spending more than markets larger than them
Ubaldo Jimenez
Am I new? I feel like I’m pretty active. Certainly not a “plant” or whatever you claim.
I like the Pads. Been following them off and on for 20 years.
But reality is they swung and missed when all the chips were on the table. Your tantrum is meaningless and invalid.
towinagain
The “market” argument is simply another excuse for owners around MLB not to spend money.
towinagain
This post Peter Seidler grpup is using Seidlers passing as an excuse to justify greatly reducing salary and not reinvesting the savings.
TigersLoveCinnamon
It’s a troll, probably another Tony Gwynn 27rings, and that dog account
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
They had holes when they signed all the big players too.
towinagain
So strip talent from an 82 and 80 squad and expect them to finish stronger?
Not the way it works.
Ubaldo Jimenez
Waaaaaah.
God, the incessant crybaby syndrome in you is deeply held. Grow up.
towinagain
Concerned about the current state of the franchise.
Brew’88
I appreciate the Pad’s $237M payroll this year. We’re lucky in SD
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
@towinagain If that’s directed at all toward me, I was not implying that at all. They will certainly be worse this year, I was only saying that they had holes to begin with.
Angels & NL West
If Snell, Chapman and/or Montgomery are considering short term, high AAV contracts with opt-outs, aren’t half the teams now having conversations with Boras? Regarding Snell, I can’t imagine it’s just SF, SEA, LAA and NYY if 3/80-110 w/ opt-outs is on the table.
Seamaholic
Depends if they are willing to consider non-competitive, or rebuilding teams. Snell’s still solidly in his prime in pitcher years, and Montgomery hasn’t shown any signs of aging. Both would be excellent gets for a low payroll team trying to solidify its rotation for this year and the next few. But if it’s “playoffs or bust” for these guys, their market may be pretty narrow as most of the current elite teams are pushing well into lux tax, or would be if they signed there.
spudchukar
Still hope the Cards can snag Monty. No draft loss 4 years with an option at $120.00.
JudgementDay
Don’t think you can sign Tyler Greene for $120.00 dollars let alone Snell, Montgomery or Chapman
spudchukar
Autocorrect.
JudgementDay
I’m just joking sir
sergefunction
One time a guy walked in to a Vegas casino with $120.00 and optioned himself a fine ol’ time. About 1967 or thereabouts.
Around 1945 the Cubbies or some such paid $100.00 for an old hurler off the waiver wire and won themselves a pennant. Ya kin look it up.
So count me in for $120.00 making a big comeback.
stymeedone
Low payroll teams can’t afford to add $30MM players after spending their budgets. Hence the description “low payroll.”
avenger65
Angels &: Thank you for turning the conversation back to the Giants who, if I read it right, is the team the story is about. The Giants were my first team when I was a kid. I still have a place in my heart for them. I hope they sign Snell or Montgomery.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Sadly I don’t see them signing another pitcher. More likely they sign Chapman and package Davis for a 4/5 starter. Most likely I bet they stand pat. This season will be all about seeing how the prospects perform.
Jean Matrac
I don’t think Davis brings back anything close to a 4/5 SP. Teams are going to value a pitcher more so than a slightly above average hitter who’s going to be a FA at the end of the year.
TigersLoveCinnamon
That’s why I said package? I get reading comprehension is hard
Jean Matrac
Sorry, I misread, mea culpa, No need to be condescending.. . Although your syntax could have been better. Maybe if you’d written something like “Davis as part of a package” it would have made your point clearer. Improve that and others might not make the same mistake I did.
CleaverGreene
Well then JDDavis is the disposable bag you put the package in.
Pete'sView
Chapman might be the Giants worst signing in a decade. Davis is just fine, thank you very much. Sign Montgomery!
Pete'sView
You obviously didn’t watch him play last year.
TigersLoveCinnamon
You’re right, maybe could’ve worded it better. Def my second sentence was unnecessary, sorry, my point still remains though
mlb fan
“Aren’t half the teams now having”..Both Snell & Chapman compromised their leverage by waiting so late in the game. I believe most teams have spent their alloted budgets already and only 1 – 3 teams are willing & able to take on a BIG 25M+/yr expenditure at this late juncture. Players can take the risk of holding out and signing late, but 90% of the teams won’t be waiting with you.
splinkysf
Montgomery doesn’t deserve anywhere near that money. 3/51
spudchukar
No he will do better than that. 5 years 110 mil.
avenger65
Montgomery wasn’t that good with the nyy and Cards. Then he gets traded to Texas and catches fire. Who knows how he will do if he goes to another team.
filihok
RE avenger
“Montgomery wasn’t that good with the nyy and Cards. Then he gets traded to Texas and catches fire.”
Weird narrative
Montgomery xFIP- with Texas in 2023 89
Montgomery xFIP- with STL in 2023 94
(Montgomery xFIP- in 2023 92)
Montgomery xFIP- with STL in 2022 78
Montgomery xFIP- with NYY in 2022 91
(Montgomery xFIP- in 2022 87)
Montgomery xFIP- with NYY in 2021 92
That’s about as consistent as they come. Montgomery isn’t inconsistent – ERA is inconsistent.
CleaverGreene
I think about what he’s worth 5/110M. 6/125M maybe.
Pete'sView
splinkysf — You are NOT correcting for market demand. All player contracts are obscene, but some—like Mongomery’s—are deserved in that context.
acoss13
Chapman’s bat is so mediocre, I wouldn’t wish that on Giants fans, and Snell is incredibly inconsistent. I’m surprised Farhan hasn’t kicked the kicked the tires on Clevinger or Lorenzen.
claude raymond
Those are back of the rotation pitchers. Not happening
foppert2
Looks you have taken the lead in the farhan future moves prediction contest, Claude. I’m preparing to take the L !
oldgfan
I’m still in with Snell @ 3/100.
Was wrong on Bellinger.
Dreading Chapman.
TigersLoveCinnamon
You should know the giants don’t like people with domestic past, clevinger ain’t coming to sf
tedtheodorelogan
Unless your name is Larry Baer.
claude raymond
I’m confused Fopp. The youth is being heavily relied on. Winn, Beck, etc as back end of rotation. Because eventually,, after Ray and Cobb emerge, there will be Webb, Harrison, Hicks, Ray and Cobb. This has nothing to do with some Farhan whim. That could be a good 5. We need youth to emerge as well. Adding Lorentzen/Clevinger simply restricts Winn/Beck. Long term. So what good does a Lorentzen/Clevinger addition do. And if a Snell/Montgomery signing happens…even better. But Lorentzen/Clevinger? Why do feel that is better Fopp?
User 112202899
Winn and Beck are already hurt.
Pete'sView
tedtheodorelogan — You know that whole Larry Baer event was overblown. On the other hand, Clevenger was voted off the Cleveland roster by his own teammates, and it wasn’t just “domestic” issues.
TigersLoveCinnamon
Do as I say, not as I do
geg42
Chapman has a good eye for the strike zone. His glove and that may be enough.
Pete'sView
Chapman is a huge swing and miss guy. His bat (and glove) are declining rapidly. Just say no, Farhan.
splinkysf
Look at his defensive runs saved. His fielding value is ridiculously amazing. And for a ground ball pitching staff, he is a perfect fit. 5/95
PutPeteinthehall
19 per season is in the range I thought he was worth. He might take a little less over four years with a buy out on the fifth. Then figure to sign for less for the fifth year elsewhere
178iq
Make an offer. He’s not going to NY. He’s waiting for an offer from another team. Any team. No one is signing with NYY & Chapman can’t hit so no one is making offers. Boras is going to eat it. Monty is having troubles landing, price tag too high.
Seamaholic
Chapman is a well above average hitter.
stymeedone
Many on this site seem to only look at last year.
178iq
What have you don’t lately? You’re only as good as your last season, then you’re only as good as your current season.
Pete'sView
stymeedone — And the steady decline over several years.
Pete'sView
Seamaholic — He most certainly is not.
rct
“No one is signing with NYY”
lmao, the Yankees have signed more high profile FAs over the last few decades than any other team in baseball. If they want him, he’ll sign there. It’s not like the George Steinbrenner days but they still generally get a lot of players that they want (like Cole).
SeaIndy
Think he meant Snell specifically. Snell grew up hating the Yankees. I was surprised by all the talk too, I figured he would sooner retire than be a Yankee
TigersLoveCinnamon
The dodgers would like a word
Baseball77
I hope neither sign with the Giants. I’d much rather have Montgomery on the team than Snell. Twice Snell has won the Cy Young and the other years he’s looked more like a 4th starter. He’ll still command too much for that kind of output. He lasts about 5 innings (still too low for an ace, even in the 2020s) and walks too many batters. Any regress from 2023 and he’ll be pretty pedestrian.
As for Chapman, while still a really good defender, there has already been some regression on that side of the ball and his bat, outside of a hot April and, I think, a few weeks in July, wasn’t good at all in 2023. Too much money, even with these “discounts” for March, for guys who will probably play lower than expectations.
TellItGoodbye
I agree. I don’t care to see either of them on the Giants.
The Voices
The speed of a 21 year old Billy Hamilton combined with the defense of a 24 year old Kevin Kiermaier combined with the power of a 27 year old Albert Pujols and the hustle of a 29 year old Peter Rose.
lloyd_christmas
who is… Mickey mantle!
The Voices
Belli. Giants almost signed him
Jack5102
This all is great drama….
CCooper8920
Now that they are “50-50” to get one, it’s 100 percent they won’t. Of course I actually wouldn’t mind the Giants passing on Snell
oldgfan
That’s according to good old “one source”
Then throw out anything Heyman says, and you have the real no news.
Gmen777
He’s obviously inconsistent but Snell transforms that entire rotation. Webb-Snell-Harrison-Hicks-Winn/Beck to start the season with it potentially being Webb-Snell-Ray-Harrison-Cobb (or any of the other arms in the fifth spot) down the stretch. They’re never gonna have a top tier offense no matter what moves are made but they could have a lethal rotation.
dubtastic
and that’s the key ingredient to the Giants winning the World Series in 2010, 2012, 2014..pitching from consistent SPs to reliable bullpens to locked down closers..the offense on all of those championship teams were nowhere near the talents on the Dodgers current lineup..
Gmen777
This team kind of reminds me of the 2010 squad. Webb is Cain, Harrison is Bumgarner and Snell perhaps could be Lincecum
mlb fan
“Chapman is a well”…Everyone knows Chappy has an outstanding glove. One of the best. But if he were, as you say, an “above average hitter” we wouldn’t be having this conversation because any one of a number of teams would have signed by now because you just described him as a perennial all star. But the fact is, most people see Matt Chapman as an all-glove, no-hit free agent third baseman who’s seeking perennial all star starter’s money and that’s why he’s unsigned.
giantsbaseball415
I bet they get NONE
Old York
Snell’s going to the Giants. My magic 8-ball says so…
oldgfan
Just say no to drugs.
Old York
@oldgfan
What’s the difference between a magic-8 ball and some reporter for Boras or any other agency pushing nonsense about signings? At least the magic 8-ball doesn’t have any special interests.
oldgfan
Actually I hope your magic 8 ball is correct. There is no difference between it and most of the named and unnamed pundits. I was just trying to be funny cuz 1/8 oz of coke was an 8 ball back in the day.
Bright Side
Boras is getting em talking. Trying to generate a buzz.
Mikenmn
Rooting for Snell to Giants….as a Yankees fan, I’m not emotionally ready for another gigantic contract that will go bad. And Snell doesn’t solve the problem of an older, underperforming, overpaid roster.
steven st croix
Farhan is still getting paid off 1 fluky year
Wren
and the Friedman connection
dirtyjog
Oh wow, suddenly as a Red Sox fan I feel better. Giants making our rotation look like the 96 Braves
Halo11Fan
Honestly, good luck with that. Seriously, I wish you the best of luck.. I know if the Angels signed Snell, it would be a disaster.
Carl W.
I’m a Twins fan and am a little disappointed in their off season. If I was a Giants fan, I’d be a lot more disappointed. Hope they for their fan’s sake, they stop sitting on their wallet and show some willingness to make the team better…
TellItGoodbye
Sitting on their wallet?? Other than the Dodger$, the Giants have spent more than any team this off season. They’ve also dumped a load of old roster space wasters, finally have a feared power hitter, brought in one of the best managers around, gotten way younger and more athletic, and only need to win about 6-8 more games than last year to make the playoffs. I’d say that’s a better off season than 75% of the other MLB clubs. Oh, and I’m guessing Snell signs here for 3/100 within a few days. Not bad I’d say.
tedtheodorelogan
They don’t have a starting rotation. A team that is serious about competing for a championship doesn’t go into the season with Logan Webb and 4 question marks.
TellItGoodbye
They already have a better staff as is than last season’s washed-up ragtag team. I prefer our unproven question marks over the Dodger$ 80% Tommy John staff any day.And by October we may have one of the best starting staffs in the post season with Webb, Ray, Cobb, Harrison, and perhaps Snell.
Pete'sView
TellItGoodbye — Let’s make it Montgomery instead of Snell and call it a great off season.
TellItGoodbye
Totally agree.
Datashark
FARHAN!!!!!! you need starting pitching and another power bat – I do admire the attempt to sign Martinez but c’mon get another bat
on the starting pitching side lets look at where they are right now:
Farhan – is going to be fired unless he fixes what everyone knows is broke
Webb (only true SP),
Harrison (rookie – dont rely on innings)
Hicks (reliever to SP – dont rely on innings)
Relievers game #1 (those not tired from harrison/hicks games)
Relievers game #2 (those not tired from harrison/hicks/relievers #1 games)
In the stables to push the options
Hjelle – cant be relied upon
Ryan Walker – only 3 games start in minors – dont count openers
Randy Rodriguez – another not to be relied but has numerous starts in minors
Trevor McDonald – Preseason thus far: 5 batters 4 walks and grade slam – its only up from there I guess.
Mason Black – probably will run him up and see
Mash unit:
Beck – Injured
Winn – Injured
Cobb – Injured
Ray – Injured
oldgfan
Limited roster knowledge…C-
Datashark
alright you tell me what roster is left I listed those unlikely to need a 40 man roster adjustment. – Mason Black would need a 40 man adjustment though
Pete'sView
oldgfan — Gee, I don’t know. DataShark isn’t completely wrong. Farhan still has work to do. Signing Montgomery would make a huge difference.
oldgfan
It would.
My point was his nonsense on Rodriguez & McDonald. Not seeing them make any starts before we see the tryouts of Whisenhunt, Birdsong, Roupe, or Teng.
Datashark
Whisenhunt has the some tools, but to throw him up there to begin season, would not be wise. – I think he is a gem to keep developing and not rush
Birdsong has more to prove his AA stint was wild.
Kai Teng – Does not look ready to go 5-6 innings consistently
Roupp – is not ready to go deep innings yet, 4 innings on appearances were the most he did last year
What they need is pitchers that can go deep – rookies tend to be inconsistent and wear down a bullpen that is the concern.
filihok
Ds
“5th grader analysis”
That’s one way to look at it.
Let me present another.
FanGraphs’ projections
Webb 32 starts, 4.2 WAR
Harrison 28 starts .1.6 WAR
Hicks 19 starts 1.2 WAR
Beck 23 starts 1.3 WAR
Winn 18 starts 1.1 WAR
Cobb 16 starts 1.5 WAR
Ray 6 starts 0.4 WAR
Teng 6 starts 0.2 WAR
Hjelle 5 starts 0.2 WAR
Seymore 2 starts 0.1 WAR
Which is a roughly league average rotation with about 12 WAR
Pete'sView
Hjelle will be gone by Opening Day. And before Seymour, maybe Ethan Small?
DroppedThirdStrike
This is why letting Imanaga slip through their fingers was a huge mistake. They could’ve easily outbid Chicago
Jean Matrac
You’re assuming Imanaga is going to be good. The fact that the Cubs were able to sign him for what they did implies that most teams don’t think he’s going to be that good.
Pete'sView
And Imanaga might have been assured by having Suzuki with him in Chicago.
spudchukar
Other rumors suggest Giants and Chapman 5 years $110 mil!
Datashark
years 4,5 better be CLUB options
spudchukar
They aren’t according to the site.
brucenewton
Giants should sign Montgomery. They should take a pass on either of Snell or Chapman.
Birdieman2
Don’t sign, get to camp on time, and possibly help your team succeed. Instead, hold out for that very last dollar, because that last dollar will be life changing!
This one belongs to the Reds
Or a lot of dollars could be deferred.
Jean Matrac
The trouble I see with the Giants signing Chapman is, as the article states, they’d need to trade Davis. Davis is a FA at the end of the year, so he isn’t going to bring back much of value. He’s worth more on the Giants than what the return would be in trade. I’d rather see Davis this season and go big for Bregman next season, if the Astros don’t extend him, which appears to be the case.
Also, I know Chapman is a great defensive player, but there’s a reason why 3B is not a premier defensive position. I don’t think great defense is that valuable at 3rd. Last season he played 137 games and had 379 chances. That’s only 2 3/4, or so, chances per game, and you have to figure a lot of those are routine. I just don’t see the glove being worth the cost, for a guy that’s 10% above league average with the bat.
filihok
JM
“Also, I know Chapman is a great defensive player, but there’s a reason why 3B is not a premier defensive position. I don’t think great defense is that valuable at 3rd. Last season he played 137 games and had 379 chances. That’s only 2 3/4, or so, chances per game, and you have to figure a lot of those are routine. I just don’t see the glove being worth the cost, for a guy that’s 10% above league average with the bat.”
Convoluted way to look at it
FanGraphs had Chapman saving 4.5 runs last year compared to the average 3B.
A 3B saving 4.5 runs = a SS saving 4.5 runs.
Jean Matrac
DRS is an abstract that tries to quantify the number of runs saved, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the actual number of runs prevented. If it did then why is there a sizeable variance for Chapman between DRS and both OAA and UZR?
And, yes 3B is not a premier defensive position. It’s a corner position where hitting is valued above defense. It’s great to have good defenders at every position but 3B does not rank with the positions up the middle where defense is more of a priority.
filihok
JM
“no actual resp9nse”
A run saved by a 3B is equal to a run saved by a SS.
Yes or no?
Jean Matrac
Again, 1 DRS doesn’t literally mean that 1 run was saved, Your question is based on that being the case.
filihok
JM
No
I’m not talking about DRS
But, 9k, let’s make it simpler.
Is a single taken away by a 3B = a single taken away by a SS, yes or no?
Jean Matrac
In all due respect, that’s kind of a useless question. But I’ll play along. Yes they’re the same. But since the SS has more opportunities to take away base hits it qualifies as a premier defensive position where 3B does not.
filihok
JN
“that’s kind of a useless question. ”
If it helps you understand the bigger point, it’s not useless
“premier defensive position”
That’s not an actual thing. Yes, SS’s have more opportunitites.
A 3B who allows 5 more singles than average hurts a team exactly as much as a SS who allows 5 more singles than the average SS.
And a true +5 3B helps a team exactly as much as a true +5 SS
Jean Matrac
“A 3B who allows 5 more singles than average hurts a team exactly as much as a SS who allows 5 more singles than the average SS.”
No it doesn’t. since SS has more chances, that means the 3B is letting a higher percentage of his total chances go for hits.
filihok
JM
“that means the 3B is letting a higher percentage of his total chances go for hits.”
If player A prevents 5 hits, and player B prevents 5 hits, both helped your team equally, no?
Jean Matrac
No. Not as an evaluation of overall defense. If 3B has 100 playable chances and lets 5 singles get by, he’s been 95% effective. If the SS has 200 playable chances and lets 5 singles get by, he’s been 97.5% effective.
I suppose both players each letting 5 singles go by is equal quantitively But that uninformative as to who the more valuable defender is. But I certainly would not be happy with my team’s 3B if he let just as many hits get by in fewer chances than the SS did in more.
I’d also add that IMO good defense at some position are a premium, and more valuable than good defense at others. In that regard when you write about premier defensive positions in that it’s,
“…not an actual thing.”
Then you and I will just have to disagree.
leftcoaster
Why not Montgomery?
Candlestoked
Jack O, reporters are wrong sometimes but they do have the advantage of talking to informed members of the teams.
Goon14
Has a huge Dodger fan since the McCourt days. I really do hope the Giants pick up both these guys. It feels our rivalary with the Giants needs a boost. Go Bums!
Timewilltell
Boras having to settle / scramble to save face with his clients is like poetry
gravel
Do you remember when Jack Hoffman said this on February 4, 2024?
“Sorry giants fans, the roster is set except for one relief pitcher spot available for a guy in their farm system.”
If you keep repeating this, it will eventually be true.
gravel
You’re confident and wrong.
Jorge Soler agreed on a deal Feb 12 and it was made official Feb 18.
I’m not a fan of you or any other screwball poster here, but I do sincerely wish you well.
gravel
There’s always next year.
*call me*
Pete'sView
I hope you’re both very happy together.
JackStrawb
These internet romances never last.
David93022
O, by the way . . .
I’m David, born & raged in San Jose, now living in dodger country (wife).
I’ve been reading this site (mostly the comments) for a few years.
Really enjoy ALL of you.
Thanks.
The only sport I love is baseball.
I don’t know stats or anything.
But I love watching, in fact I’ll watch any game that is on.
Anyway thanks to all of you,
As a 53 y/old fan, this is my go to baseball reference.
JackStrawb
@David93022 Sir, in that regard allow me to encourage you to go to baseball-reference dot com, the baseball site of baseball sites.
It’s awe inspiring.
User 4223176798
Giants are content being a .500 team and a “possible” wild card contender as long as the financials are very profitable. Running HAL, signing Snell and.or Chapman will not improve the profit this team makes. Going cheaper will. Giants earned $75 million profit in 2022, which is a significant increase from 2021’s $32 million. And with a lower payroll this year, you can bet ownership and their puppet Farhan will not flash the cash to Snell and.or Chapman.
Pete'sView
A “fun” team will draw fans, whether it’s .500 or better. Signing JH Lee was a terrific move. Soler will help. Make the team really competitive (adding Montgomery) will make them a contender.
JackStrawb
@Pete’sView True, that. Sign a very good player and your .500 team turns into an 85 win team. It was good enough last year.
OferThis
Not a chance Montgomery goes to Giants. He wants to stay close to Boston where his wife is in residency. I see Red Sox signing him. As an O’s fan though I’d love him signing there.
Candlestoked
That’s not how either of those gigs works! It’s not like they’ll be coming home for dinner every night. He’ll sign the greenest contract available.
AndyMcFail
This would be a really good move for the Os. Their window is now and he would anchor that staff.
Pete'sView
OferThis — So, you’ve talked to Monty and his wife?
JackStrawb
@OferThis How many people want to be around their spouses all the time? Many marriages flourish with some amount of distance. Besides, they’ll have the entire offseason.
unpaidobserver
At this point printing who the Giants might get seems sort of negligent.
Candlestoked
C’mon, Z. Get a twofer!
SFG.1
This is one of the rare times where I hope Zaidi is just blowing smoke up our rears and really not interested in signing either of these two.
AndyMcFail
Giants smelling out some deals, getting Nordstrom’s quality at goodwill prices!
This one belongs to the Reds
Remember the saying on ham and eggs. “The chicken is involved but the pig is committed.”
JackStrawb
Poor pig.
Brad Scott
Being with the mediocre Giants would be a waste of Snell’s and Chapman’s talents. They should both sign with good, contending teams like the Dodgers, Braves, & Texas.
gravel
I don’t know if I trust a guy with two first names to split two players three ways.
Mrski
Will the Yankees get a snell commission for being used for a giants contract?
gravel
The Giants have credit from last off season in that regard.
sfjackcoke
Is there a particular reason SF isn’t tied to Montgomery as well? IMO he’s a far superior fit to the staff and among Chapman, Snell and Monty is just the better talent. There’s been discussion of his wife’s medical residency in the Boston area but has he ruled out the West Coast?
I’m sort of pissed at SF, a season ticket holder here. There’s clearly a market dislocation for a variety of reasons in no particular order, the RSA debacle, NY Mets needs a reset and the fact all these Boras clients had “warts’ on their resumes.
That said Free Agency is always about over-paying and in this 2023-24 market and pay Montgomery. He’s not worth a Nola contract in duration but in AVV on a 5year+ a vesting 6yr that cash flow is front loaded?
I think Snell is a ticking time bomb and a guy who maybe is capable of taking a Game 1 playoff start but can he even go 6ip?
Jean Matrac
I think the Giants disagree that Montgomery is the better fit. Snell certainly has better career numbers than Montgomery. Snell has a higher ceiling, and the floor for both is about the same.
MLBTR also thinks Snell is the better pitcher. They had Snell ranked 4th on their top 50, with Montgomery ranked 6th. They predicted an additional year and $50M more for Snell than Montgomery.
Back at the start of the offseason, Zaidi said they were interested in adding a TOR arm. I think that’s why they’re still interested in Snell and don’t view Montgomery the same way.
In Snell’s 2 CY seasons he led MLB with a 217, and a 182 ERA+. He may be a ticking timebomb, but I think that upside makes him a reasonable gamble as long as it isn’t a huge overpay. I think that’s what Zaidi is trying to do, sign him with handcuffing the team down the road.
oldgfan
“Down the road” is always the scary part with a pitching contract. I read somewhere the counter offer to the Yank 6/150 was something like 9/270. No way SFG should go there, or even a 6 year deal in my opinion. Zaidi has never been prone to that kind of commitment either.
I’m in at 3/100 but beyond that pass.
There are like 5 prospects that can cycle through as needed and some look pretty promising too. I do like Snell’s numbers against the Fodgers tho…
Jean Matrac
If 9/270 is accurate, I agree that SF should want no part of a deal like that. I’d love to see a 3/100, but I wouldn’t mind for Zaidi to go as high as 3/110 or 111. The money isn’t as scary as the years IMO.
oldgfan
Yup. The years are the issue for sure.
I’m not getting my hopes up. At this point I think Snell is holding out for an injury to a #1 on a contending team.
sfjackcoke
You’re not paying for past performance, it’s a combination of present stuff and how you think that stuff will age. Montgomery has a higher floor and for anything past 3yrs a higher ceiling
The guys are MLBTR don’t work for MLB teams, they are media, far smarter than most of us but the first to tell you they’re not MLB “talent evaluators” Someone who is both is Keith Law from The Athletic and here are snippets of his write up on Montgomery whom he rated ahead of Snell
“Montgomery… He’s a strike thrower who gets substantial deception from the difference in movement between his sinker and four-seamer, while his stuff across the board has improved by 2-3 mph over the past four seasons…. he’s allowed just two homers to lefties in the past two seasons combined and held them to a .251 OBP. He’s effective enough against right-handers, limiting them to a .295 OBP over that same span,… hasn’t missed a start since the beginning of the 2020 season, including 32 starts each of the past two years… at his peak right now, with his best velocity and results, but I like this formula — strikes, deception, changing speeds, without reliance on huge velocity — to age well, so he’s one of the few starting pitchers on this market I’d be willing to go four years for, and I think he’ll probably end up with five-year offers.”
“Snell…. despite a career-high walk rate of 13.3 percent, which I believe would be the highest ever for a Cy winner in either league, It has to loom large for teams considering investing in him long-term. He’s led his league in ERA twice, 2023 and 2018 (when he also won the Cy), but those are also the ONLY two seasons when he’s thrown more than 130 innings, and a big part of his performance this year was unusual success in stranding runners on base — his LOB percent was 86.7 percent, the highest in MLB by more than six points. That’s not sustainable, and when you’re walking as many guys as he does and you aren’t stranding runners at league-leading rates, you’re going to give up more runs, which is what his FIP of 3.44 indicates….if he gets paid like a No. 2 or better, he probably won’t produce up to the level of the contract.”
Track record of health, durability AND the pitch profile that ages well is the value of Montgomery and I’d almost characterize him as a LH Webb, who doesn’t want THAT?
The bigger point is the market is dislocated and for a team that has been the bridesmaid on so many FA’s, they’re best positioned to top the market and possibly land , both Montgomery on a 5yr deal, if you wish to make it 6yrs for CBT and front load cash do so you get Chapman on a short pillow contract get it done.
Next year the NY Mets will be back to spending, the RSN situation will be close(r) to resolution bringing a host of teams back to the market.
Jean Matrac
Not paying for past performance is just a platitude that doesn’t fit real world analysis. The major way to predict future performance is to look at past performance.
Scouting reports are a great tool, but if they were entirely reliable, teams wouldn’t make mistakes drafting players, or in FA signings.
The number of IP, isn’t much of an issue the way the game is managed today. These days teams want to reduce the times hitters face a pitcher in a game. Average IP for SPs last season was 5.1. Snell has averaged 5.2 IP per start for his career. Plus his MLB career totals for IP are misleading since, in his first 2 seasons, he threw 107 innings in the MiLs.
I don’t think Snell is anywhere near what he’s asking for, but he still has a higher ceiling than Montgomery. Montgomery has the edge in BBs which shows up in WHIP, and the SO/W ratio. But Snell is better in ERA, ERA+ FIP, H/9, HR/9, and SO/9. Give me the strikeout pitcher any day.
sfjackcoke
Some one who’s previously worked in a front office and who’s job is as a talent evaluator disagrees with you.
As for me, my preference is a guy who in October can pitch not only 5 innings but into the 6th and 7th because they don’t pitch count themselves out of game with their crap control. Aside from Snell’s horrific walk rate and the unsustainable strand rate, his 2023 is largely a product of a large chuck of games when Gary Sanchez became his catcher.
End of the day, if it was my $ and both would agree to similar term 5yr contracts, I’d take Montgomery.
Jean Matrac
If you did work in a FO, I’d guess it was several decades ago. As stats show, teams are managed differently today. Teams are adverse to seeing their starter face the lineup more than 3 times. It’s why the bullpen, which used to be an afterthought, now is a crucial component of the staff.
The difference in IP between the two isn’t great. Montgomery in 6 GS threw 6 or more IP 3 times. In 10 GS Snell threw 5 or more IP 4 times. And that probably has more to do with the manager, and the team philosophy than ability.
And despite walking more guys, Snell has a lower WHIP in the playoffs. That lower WHIP is because Montgomery allows 10 H/9 in the playoffs to Snell’s 7 H/9.
Nothing gets a pitcher out of danger better than being able to produce a strikeout. So again, I’ll take the guy in the playoffs with an 11.3 SO/9 over a guy with a 5.7 SO/9.
You may like Montgomery better, but the consensus throughout MLB is that Snell is superior.
JackStrawb
In that regard, unless Monty signs with Boston it hardly matters where he signs.
SFG.1
Reports like this usually mean that the Giants won’t be signing anyone listed.
Pete'sView
Old narrative. Stay hopeful.
JackStrawb
@SFG.1 Oh, what pessimism, given today.
JackStrawb
“,,,explore the markets,,,”
TRANSLATION: Assistant GM is calling Boras’s 3rd assistant every day and whining about the price.
MEANWHILE: Steve Cohen breaks into a sweat and offers Snell 1/50m and Chapman 1/40m.
ForeverGiantsFan
Giants needs to add a couple of starters and another bat. Starting pitching is razor thin.
The Chicago Cubs
4 years 75 million for Matt Chapman IMO.
JackStrawb
I remember Dallas Keuchel talking—ridiculously—like he was a skilled machinist being offered a pittance like $9 an hour, claiming he was holding out because he ‘knew what he was worth,’ as if in his world your worth wasn’t what you negotiated it to be.
“They offered $54 million? It’s $55 million—NOT A NICKEL LESS.”
If everyone knew that’s what pitchers of your ilk should get, don’t you think it would have been solved before Spring Training? Why wouldn’t it have been solved the day the season ended, if your worth was clear cut to everyone?