With Spring Training just weeks away, here are three things we’ll be keeping an eye on around the baseball world throughout the day today:
1. Who will get the call from the Hall?
The results of this year’s round of Hall of Fame voting will be announced at 5pm CT this evening, determining who will join former Pirates, Marlins, Rockies, and Tigers manager Jim Leyland in being inducted into Cooperstown on July 13. Third baseman Adrian Beltre appears to be all but guaranteed to join Leyland in this year’s class. As shown by the Baseball Hall of Fame Vote Tracker maintained by Ryan Thibodaux, Beltre has received votes on a whopping 99% of publicly-known ballots at the moment. With 53.4% of ballots known, Beltre would need votes from less than 60% of the remaining ballots to secure his spot in Cooperstown. In addition to Beltre, Twins catcher Joe Mauer and Rockies first baseman Todd Helton both appear to have a strong chance of getting the call this evening with votes on 82.9% and 82% of known ballots, respectively.
Southpaw closer Billy Wagner (77.6%) and slugging outfielder Gary Sheffield (75.1%) are both also on paths to clear the 75% threshold and land a plaque in Cooperstown, though the odds either player makes it in are still up in the air at this point. This year’s results are particularly key for Sheffield, as this is his tenth and final appearance on the ballot. By contrast, Wagner is in his ninth year of eligibility while Helton is in his 6th. Mauer and Beltre just joined the ballot this year. On the other end of the spectrum, left-handed starter Mark Buehrle, third baseman David Wright, right-handed closer Francisco Rodriguez, and outfielder Torii Hunter all have been selected on between 4% and 8% of public ballots. Players need at least 5% of the total vote to remain on the ballot for the following year.
2. Paxton headed out West?
The Dodgers appear to be nearing a deal to add a third starting pitcher to their rotation this winter, as reports have indicated the club is close to a one-year deal with veteran southpaw James Paxton. If the deal is completed, Paxton would join fellow offseason acquisitions Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Tyler Glasnow as well as internal arms Bobby Miller and Walker Buehler in the club’s likely starting five. The Dodgers have an open spot on their 40-man roster, so no corresponding move will be necessary to bring in Paxton if the deal is completed. Big Maple’s likely departure from the free agent market takes another mid-rotation arm off the board, leaving Mike Clevinger, Michael Lorenzen and Hyun-Jin Ryu among the best remaining options.
3. MLBTR Chat Today:
With just three weeks left until Spring Training, there’s plenty of boxes still unchecked on the offseason shopping lists of clubs all around the league. Are you wondering what’s next for your favorite team, or perhaps curious about what the market for a particular free agent looks like? If so, tune in this afternoon when MLBTR’s Steve Adams hosts a live chat with readers at 1pm CT. You can click here to ask a question in advance, and that same link will allow you to join in on the chat once it begins or read the transcript after its completed.
What % of the remaining ballots does Wagner need to keep his 75
Wagner won’t make it this year and neither will Sheffield. Probably next year for Wagner.
I think wagner will. It’ll be pretty damn close either way though.
I’d bet real money that Wagner makes it next year. 10th players typically pick up a lot of support (Raines, Walker, Lee Smith, Edgar, etc,)
He’s making it THIS year! TODAY!
Joe – Dwight Evans didn’t, but he will be back on the ballot this year.
govtrack.us/congress/members/dwight_evans/412677
Trumbo – Yes! Making it!!
Makin’ it, oo makin’ it
I’m solid gold
I’ve got the goods
They stand when I walk
Through the neighborhoods
I’m makin’ it
I’ve got the chance, I’m takin’ it
No more, no more, Fakin’ it
This time in life, I’m makin’ it (ooo)
Makin’ it
Hello uptown, goodbye poverty
The top of the ladder is waiting for me
I’m makin’ it,
I’ve got the chance, I’m takin’ it
No more, no more fakin’ it
This time in life, I’m makin’ it (ooo)
Makin’ it, makin’ it
Listen everyone here
This coming year’s gonna be my year
I’m as bad as they come
Number two to no one
I’ve got looks, I’ve got brains
And I’m breakin’ these chains
Make some room now
Dig what you see
Success is mine
‘Cause I’ve got the key
I’m makin’ it
The public votes are usually more generous than the private ones.
He’d need about 70% of the remaining. Wagner will likely end up a little short. He would need a lot of changed votes from last time. The unknown ballots almost always have a smaller percentage than the known ballots and right now he is only at +6 when he fell 27 votes short last time. He’ll probably end up about 10-15 short.
Helton is the really interesting one right now. He was 11 votes short, but for some reason 5 people that voted for him last year decided not to vote for him this year. And none of those 5 people voted for 10 names. They just simply left him off. I want to know why. 1 guy that removed him voted for both Andy Pettitte and Manny Ramirez and A Rod instead. And anpther that removed him only voted for 3 guys, one being Omar Vizquel. Yet another removed him and replaced him, again with Vizquel.
I am not one that likes to denigrate the voters, because they know a lot about the sport. But some of these decisions really should be explained. Otherwise, they just frankly look like idiots.
At least make all votes public. Voters should stand by their decisions, not hide in anonymity.
Joe – I agree, but I can understand not wanting death threats because of a publicly revealed ballot.
Fans are fanatical at times.
That is true FPG. Fans are crazy sometimes.
hiflew
And none of those 5 people voted for 10 names. They just simply left him off.
======================
Bradley left him of, but replaced him with Beltre and Mauer. and used all ten votes.
Purdy dropped Helton and added Vizquel which is a little odd.
Saxon dropped 5 guys which brings into question why he voted as he did last year.
Vaccaro simply dropped him,.
IMO, there is no way a writer should be honored with the vote, but then refuse to discuss the whys and why-nots.
hiflew: I disagree with the idea that writers know a lot about the sport. At least, more than we do. I’ve known a lot of sports writers and some of them don’t know much beyond the teams they cover. For some, it’s a status thing, something they can brag about. Giving the media the privilege to decide post season awards and who gets into the HOF was a bad decision. A lot of their decisions are based on ego, a chance to make a name for themselves, like the jerk who didn’t vote for Hank Aaron, the all-time HR king, for the HOF. He robbed Aaron of the honor of being voted in unanimously and made sure everyone knew who he was. Players of a HOF candidate’s era should do the voting. Players should also do the voting for postseason awards.
Agreed!
That’s a tough one.
Interestingly, if LAD sign Paxton, 2023 rookie Bobby Miller would have the most 2023 IP with 124 (compared to Glasnow’s career-high: 120 IP), with Paxton/Buehler not surpassing 100 IP. It will be interesting to see how many IP they can get out of these guys, but they have the farm depth to fill-in.
Everyone is sleeping on Miller. I think he’s got a real shot to be the best starter for the Dodgers this year. Guys got nasty stuff and pitches like he’s 10 years older than he actually is.
If K-Rod and Hunter played for the Brooklyn Robins, they both would get a higher percentage of votes
KRod is an interesting selection. My initial reaction was no way but he had over 400 saves and a career ERA of under 3.00. Borderline but should get more love. Hunter? Not before Andruw Jones in my book.
Dewey: Yet another mystery. I guess Jones will have to wait until he’s a doddering old man to get into the Hall by the veterans committee.
I’m not saying they should be voted in, this year. But I’m saying at least if they had played for the team from Brooklyn, instead of the Angels, they would be getting a higher percentage of the vote
Jones didn’t get to 2000 hits and would have the lowest batting average of ALL Hall of Famers if he were elected. I get he played good defense, but the guy fell off so hard at 30. He is basically the opposite of Adrian Beltre. Beltre was kind of a disappointment overall from 19-30, but he persevered and made himself into a HOFer in his 30s. Jones had all the talent in the world and basically squandered it by not keeping in shape. I don’t think that should be rewarded.
hiflew I get what you’re saying about Jone’s batting skills and the cliff he fell off of but his defense wasn’t just good. It was otherworldly. He was the best I ever saw. Listen to Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux talk about him. He’s a HOFer in my book.
Run along now. Recess is over.
He’s Jim Edmonds on a good team. And Edmonds fell off the ballot after one year. And Jones nearly did as well. Edmonds got 2.5% in 2016, his only year on the ballot. Jones got 7.3% in 2018. And 7.5% in 2019. I believe Jones would not have survived to be in the discussion had he been on the 2016 ballot instead of 2018.
Wagner and Sheffield are not on path based on past voting patterns. The unrevealed ballots are a bit stingier. Sheffield will probably finish in the upper 60% range with Wagner maybe in the low 70s. He’ll get in next year.
Sheffield is another unproven— but obvious PED user —— his arrogance combined with with his highly suspicious use of PED’s —- throws up the red flag on his vote.
dizzy, please explain how you know Sheffield is an “obvious PED user,” especially since you admit it’s unproven.
Sheffield admitted it. It was either the cream or clear (or both). And he’s even pointed to the season prior to which he used and how he actually had a down season, supposedly as a result.
He says it was during his time training with Bonds and that he didn’t realize what he was getting himself into, which seems plausible. Either way, he’s not evading the matter. Assuming he’s honest about when he used and the circumstances, then his situation is really worth examining—because he had a HOF career.
This goes to an argument that it isn’t made much, but should be: dabbling in PEDs is not on the same level as transforming your body and turning into a different player than you naturally would be. For instance, Sammy Sosa and Brett Boone transformed themselves. I think Edgar Martinez and Bagwell did, too. (There are others, of course.) But was Sheffield’s career boosted by PED use? What about David Ortiz? He failed a test that was administered in, what, 2003 or 2004? Pretty much all of his career success occurred after that. Now, we don’t know if continued to use; but if he didn’t, should someone in his position be barred from the Hall? Opposed to someone like Sosa?
Moonlight, Ortiz was reported to have failed the survey testing that was supposed to be anonymous, and it’s been revealed there were issues with the handling and documenting of those samples.
Also, what makes you think Edgar Martinez used?
I’m aware of the Ortiz history. I don’t dispute, but I also don’t accept the handling as absolution. I also don’t think his career is tainted.
Edgar Martinez turned into a monster of a hitter at 32, when all of a sudden he put up an OPS north of 1.100? Not normal.
Plus, looking at photographs, his forearms developed into Bagwell-esque logs, and his chest thickened more than would seem natural.
dizzy – Unproven? Sheffield admitted using steroids.
@LordD. —I sure hope so. He was a dominant reliever!!
According to posts I’ve read here today and in the past, it seems everyone is guessing about who used PEDs. I don’t know if these are guesses or based on facts. If someone ever does an honest documentary or writes a story about PEDs in baseball, they should start with Brian Downing. When he was traded from the White Sox to the Angels in 1978, he brought with him this big.bottle. He kept it over his locker. He would take the magic powder every day and started to gain muscle mass. A teammate noticed and asked if Downing could help him add muscle. Dent took down the bottle and.mixed him up a drink. Soon after, more and more players started using what Downing was using. I guess Downing could be called Ground Zero of the most recent PED epidemic.
The problem I have with leaving PEDs out of the HOF is that Matt Lawton, FP Santangelo, Jason Grimsley, Kyle Farnsworth, etc etc juiced (Farnsworth does to this day), and still failed to put up HOF numbers
Bonds and A-Rod are cheaters and don’t deserve it. Yes to Rose and Schilling.
I.M. Insane: Agree.
Cheaters don’t deserve to be in. And Schilling has already been on a veterans committee (his peers) ballot and failed to get in.
Areo – I would hope the HOF doesn’t have a “Shilling”.
Now Curt Schilling, THAT guy deserves to get in.
And since you failed to mention him, so does Clemens.
Blackpink…. let’s set aside the fact that Rose ignored the one rule posted in every clubhouse sine the 1920’s. A rule that he saw tens of thosuands of times…setting that aside let’s look at a hypothetical.
Let’s pertend that Wander Franco is in his 30’s and had already put up HoF numbers. Let’s pretend that in his 30’s it came out he was having relations with that 14 year old girl. Would you back him for the HoF?
I ask that because Rose did the same thing (minus paying off the mother). Rose admitted it and his excuse was “I thought she was 16….the legal age of consent in OH at the time”. Do you still want him in the HoF? If so, explain why to any 14 year old girl in your family.
it’s pretty weird how wagner is getting voted into the hall of hame but fransico isn’t. if wagner gets in, fransico should too IMO
Wagner had an ERA more than 0.5 runs better in about 73 fewer innings with a K/9 1.4 ahead of K-Rod, so I’d say Wagner was better.
Only about half of the voting is known, so nothing is set in stone just yet.
It’s pretty weird that the voters don’t like to vote for people who used roids but they let in Ortiz who also used them. We need new voters.
Swag, before others pounce on you, I agree and I’m as big a Papi fan as there is. In hindsight, I believe not only did he cheat (and just not get a positive test) but I think Sox ownership knew it and that’s why they changed the team rules on retired numbers. Prior to him, the rule was you had to be enshrined in Cooperstown. With the rule changed, I’m still waiting for Evans and Tiant’s numbers to get retired. No disrespect meant but it better happen before Pedie gets his number retired (I loved Pedie too).
Dewey: Totally agree with your username. Evans was an amazing RFer. The only other great RFer I can think of is Dave Parker. His throw to the plate in the All-Star game was the best OF throw I’ve ever seen. I know there are probably other great RFers in the history of the game, I just can’t think of any at the moment.
dewey – Do you remember Papi in 2006?
In 2000 he went from zero HR to 10.
In 2001 it was 18
In 2002 it was 20
In 2003 it was 31
In 2004 it was 41
In 2005 it was 47
Then in 2006 his power numbers went through the roof.
From July 1 thru Aug 8 he had 18 HR in just 33 games, his biggest power surge ever.
Then in August of that year he entered the hospital twice for mysterious heart palpitations.
After that year, his HR immediately dropped to 35 and he never again had more than 38 HR.
It sure does seem like he was taking SOMETHING from 2000-2006 in increasingly higher dosages, and went too far which caused the heart issues in August 2006.
I love Papi like everyone else, but to me Double X is still the Red Sox single-season homerun king.
dewey – That is not correct about Ortiz, he was not the first Red Sox non-HOF to have their number retired.
Johnny Pesky was in 2008.
Fever: Ortiz had no heart issues. He explained it here:
espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=2567347
He also had a wrist injury that hurt his power for a period of time.
suit – To me heart palpitations are a heart issue, because it’s related to the heart. It doesn’t necessarily mean the problem is the heart though.
What causes them? Usually stress, exercise, or drugs.
I don’t think anybody would believe they were caused by stress or exercise, let’s leave it at that.
As for the wrist injury, that happened in 2001 and 2008 and 2014. So at the very least, no excuse for the ginormous 2007 drop in power.
To me heart palpitations are a heart issue, because it’s related to the heart.
===========================
But the article in question never mentioned heart palpitations. Where did you get that from?
Fever: The article says he was cleared of heart problems. There were no palpitations. As for 2007 and beyond: Ortiz was 31 years old in 2007 where he hit 35 homeruns. He never hit more than 38 homeruns after that. So, a bit of power decline in his 30’s seems reasonable. 2005 and 2006 were the only years he had significantly more than 35 homeruns.
Fever: My edit didn’t take. 2005 and 2006 were the only two years Ortiz hit significantly more than 35 homeruns. It looks like they were the anomalies and there wasn’t some big power loss after 2006.
Pudge Rodriguez is in, too. And he mega-cheated.
Insane – So did Piazza and Rickey Henderson.
Then you have other kinds of cheaters, like Gaylord Perry.
Though never proven —— with Ortiz it was pretty obvious. Seemed everyone turned their head because of his personality.
Bonds was obvious too. However— Because of his arrogance—- people did not turn their heads with him.
17dizzy: One of the decisions the media got right, not voting bonds into the HOF. He was a great player before he started using PEDs. He could have accomplished a lot without them. But he wrecked how his career will always be viewed. An out and out cheater.
avenger – Same could be said of Clemens.
Which is why many people belief BOTH should be inducted, because they both had HOF careers before using PED’s.
Just more proof that high school never really ends.
And a lesson to the Schillings and Kents of the world that if you want to be (insert four letter word here) to the press you’d better be 100% sure you’re getting in based on your numbers.
Who cares baseball hall is a joke. No Pete Rose ? No Barry Bonds? on Roger Clemens? Ect…
I stopped caring about the Hall of Fame. Its “morality” clause is a joke. Double standards are the problem here.
Pete Rose has paid his price for his penalty & served his time for betting on baseball. It’s been Proven he never bet on the Reds to lose. Just to win —- so he never threw a game under the bus to win a bet !!!
Now MLB is making money off gambling.
Weird situation. MLB condones gambling if they get their cut.
I can go along with never letting Rose “work” again in MLB.
However—- He Never cheated on the field as a player!!!
That’s where the players actual players are judged is between the white foul lines. Between the foul lines—- Pete Rose proved himself to be the Best all around hustling player in the game. That’s where he should be judged.
All of his records still stand!!! So why isn’t he standing in the Hall of Fame
“It’s been Proven he never bet on the Reds to lose”
Sure it has…
dizzy, what about the games Rose didn’t bet on his team to win? Was that an indication to gamblers he expected a loss?
Also, Rose is permanently ineligible, which extends beyond his lifetime, which I’m fine with.
17dizzy: To that I say, screw the HOF! Everyone knows Rose is a HOFer. I used to hate Rose after he plowed into the second baseman for, I believe, the Pirates and injured him pretty bad. But when he broke Ty Cobb’s record for most hits, Rose said Cobb was still a better player than he was. That won me over because Cobb is.my all-time favorite player and, imo, the greatest player in the history of the game. Also, how much longer are they going to keep Shoeless Joe out of the HOF? He was given a lifetime ban. He died in the 1950s. He’s paid his penalty. They should give his family that honor already.
gbs – Yep, and the games Rose did bet on were the games he used his best players the most.
I always wondered why Cora would often rest several of his best position players at the same time, in the same game the pitching matchup heavily favored the opponent …
So the implication is that Cora bet on games?
As soon as I saw the response, I knew this was one of your posts.
Those are pluses in my book.
I’ll agree to disagree. Glad you’re content with the way the Hall of Fame works. Thank you for not attacking my comment.
Speaking of hall of famers, get well soon Ryne Sandberg!
Adrian Beltre & Joe Mauer seem to be locks for being elected. Outside of that, I don’t think the others will be.
I honestly feel that the HOF is being treated like they need to elect someone every year. A lot of these players should be elected to the Hall of Very Good but not HOF. I get the good sounding story about Mauer but he doesn’t even come close to matching any of the Hall of Fame Statistics on BR. Maybe it’s time to split the HOF so it’s actual mega star players that performed for most of their career at a high level and then a separate Hall of Very Good for those we want to remember that were decent but not mega stars that produced throughout their career on defense and offense.
Well said OldYork
I agree, Old York, that they don’t HAVE to vote someone in every year. There was one year awhile back when no one was voted in. Nothing wrong with that instead of putting players in who, as you rightfully said, should be in the hall of the Very Good. If Mauer and Helton’s and Sheffield
I agree, Old York, that they don’t HAVE to vote someone in every year. There was one year awhile back when no one was voted in. Nothing wrong with that instead of putting players in who, as you rightfully said, should be in the hall of the Very Good. If Mauer and Helton’s and Sheffield’s statistics can match Rose’s, Mays’ and Aaron’s, then
I agree, Old York, that they don’t HAVE to vote someone in every year. There was one year awhile back when no one was voted in. Nothing wrong with that instead of putting players in who, as you rightfully said, should be in the hall of the Very Good. If Mauer and Helton’s and Sheffield’s statistics can match Rose’s, Mays’, Cobb’s and Aaron’s, then vote them in.
Joe Mauer is a top-10 catcher All-Time by most measuring sticks. He was THAT good for a decade before getting moved to 1B. What more do y’all want? Him to single handedly lower ticket/concession prices?
“Yeah, he won 3 batting titles, but Dippin’ Dots are still $30 so screw him.”
It’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of All-Time Record Holders
@16 for 20
What metrics are you evaluating him on? For example, Gene Tenace is not in the HOF, despite having a career wRC+ of 140 and a dWAR of 1.8 and career WAR of 46.8. He had 28 WAA.
Mauer has a wRC+ of 123, dWAR of 3.0 and a career WAR of 55.2. 27.5 WAA.
So, Gene was much better at producing runs his whole career, something we want as the main goal in baseball, Mauer was a better defender and Mauer produced about 8 more WAR than Tenace. They were both pretty even when it comes to producing Wins Above Average league player. I think they’re pretty similar in terms of measuring sticks available for these guys yet we’re trying to talk about one should be in the Hall while the other is forgotten? Again, I’m not suggesting Mauer is a horrible player but I think we’re putting these players on a pedestal that they’re not really qualified for, because we had fond memories of these players.
I don’t like having emotions involved with HOF voting, which unfortunately is happening each year.
Mauer is the only catcher with 3 batting titles which is amazing given the wear and tear on legs and hands from that position. He is 7th all time using JAWS among catchers. His MVP season was phenomenal- as good as any season by a modern day catcher
@arby58
Once again, emotional views of specific years of his career, not his career overall. The HOF shouldn’t be about specific single season achievements but the overall career achievements.
Three batting titles in a 4 year stretch isn’t ’one good year.’ JAWS measures peak performance and he’s 7th all time. Playing 20’years and piling up stats has never been the only way into the HOF – see Sandy Koufax, Kirby Puckett, etc.
@arby58
wRC+ isn’t piling up stats. Plus, going by your argument, Gene Tenace was the 13th best catcher by JAWS measurement of peak performance. He had similar numbers to Mauer, yet, the guy isn’t in the HOF. Given the
Also, I thought the view on Batting Average wasn’t all it is nowadays. The BA only tells part of the story of the player’s contribution.
Can we PLEASE stop with the “Hall of Very Good” phrase. Fame and Very Good are not on the same scale. If it was called the Hall of Excellence, then Hall of Very Good would make sense. But Fame and Very Good are not related in any way whatsoever.
@hiflew
Let me guess, you’re an English teacher by day?
No, just a person that appreciates the English language.
@hiflew
Could you define the word ‘Fame’ in the baseball sense? Are these people more like famous baseball players but not actually top performers their whole career? If so, then I can get behind that and I’ve been misunderstanding the point of the HOF all these years.
Watered down HOF. Only the inner circle is worthy.
Who would go to a HOF with 20-30 members and elections 1-2 times per decade?
It’s also a private museum that needs visitors to survive.
I would go. You can go to the Hall of Pretty Good.
Considering Hudson fell off the ballot in 2 years I see no reason why Buehrle should be voted to stay on it. Have lots of thoughts. People such as Brian Kenny supporting Jimmy Rollins…he has about 3000 more ab than Rafael Furcal and only 8 more WAR. Did they think Furcal was a HOFer before his injuries? I doubt it. Is it because Rollins won an MVP? IDK. Krod can’t fall off ballot. Neither can Wright. It’s absurd. I can see not voting for Wright but seeing as RP is a position and Krod is probably an all time great he should get in. What relievers finished in top 4 in Cy young in 3 out of 5 years?… I won’t go on with my thoughts. I could.lol.
I will add another…WHY….are….you people….voting for….Omar Vizquel!?! Why do you think this player is a HOFer? Getting 3x the vote Krod is getting. Silly voters. I wonder if anyone voted for him and not Andruw Jones. If so we have a new degree of stupidity.
If u want Vizquel in I wanna see Andrelton Simmons on your ballot one day. He was almost as valuable as Omar and Omar played probably 3-4 times longer. And still “only” 42 WAR. This is a defensive specialist and even the saber stats don’t back up this guy. He loses on all fronts with traditionalists and “new-school” alike. I never saw Omar play much but judging by his WAR I will bet the aforementioned Furcal was not much worse of a fielder. And he has the same WAR basically with 100 less years played. Vote him in. Let Jimmy in. Let everyone at SS in….Kidding
So what? Collective wisdom is what counts, and he’s not getting into the HOF – ever.
Collective wisdom goes hand in hand with collective bias. My point is they are wasting votes. He’s a ballot-clogger. Tho I imagine voters voting for him are probably not voting for 10 players, as they are likely very old school-and “small hall” guys (which really makes it more absurd).
“I won’t go on with my thoughts.”
Posts three more times…
Well I had one other thought only in all fairness. Its because I took a look at the live voting percentages after I posted. And the 3rd was a response so you are a tad bias yourself.
Dodgers want to win the 2024 World Series. This is the approach. No question they can still be beat. But they are showing Dodger fans they are committed to bringing a Champion to LA.
I kinda hate the HoF. I’m sick of it being decided by the baseball writers who are 90% either biased, goody two-shoe, or have vendettas.
If they switched to fan voting, you’d get those, but I think the percentage would get filtered out to a more even level, and at least it’s a HoF by the people, for the people.
Sheffield deserves to get the call. He was one of the 5 most feared RH hitters of his generation. Hit for power and average, cannon for an arm. Only reason he isn’t in already- because he trained ONE offseason with Barry Bonds. He was not a PED user, he never tested positive. Sheffield is brutally honest and he respects the game. I believe him when he says he never took a drug.
I think Sheffield belongs as well. For me, Sheffield was a HOFer while he was playing. I don’t really remember thinking of Adrian Beltre as a “future HOFer” until he got to 3000 hits. I just never thought of him as that good. But Sheffield, I pretty much thought of him that way since the mid 90s. The eye test can be flawed, but that doesn’t make it useless either.
I think the fans should have a say as long as the process can be controlled. Nothing like all star game where you can nearly vote unlimited times if you put in the work. Give the fans a vote but have it account for say 10-25 percent
I think announcers and those that while not writing for papers but are respected baseball writers should get there say.
If you publicly admit you haven’t seen a game for years or submit a blank ballot you should be done.
The ballot should also allow for unlimited selections and should be public.
This isn’t hard. Allow those that have seen these players play the ability to vote. Anyone can look at the back of a baseball card and say this guy was great, but you also need to have those that saw the player actually play
Mark Buehrle deserves more HOF love- started at least 30 games in every single season of his career. He twirled at least 200 innings in every single season except for his last (2015) when he pitched 198.2 innings. That’s unheard of in modern baseball. Buehrle is arguably one of the 3 best fielding pitchers of all-time, winning 4 Gold Gloves, and became the AL leader all-time in pickoffs. He won 214 games, was a 5 time Allstar and WS champion. His name might not have that star power like a Tim Lincecum, but he definitely deserves to stay on the ballot.
The HoF stuff is easy. Whenever the PED ban started is the date of when players should/shouldn’t be allowed to the Hall. Its a clear bright line.
Bonds, Clemens, Palmero, etc. all used prior to the rule, thus they are eligible.
A-Rod repeatedly used After the rule. Not eligible.
Remember, the League, Players, and Clubs ALL KNEW about the PEDs. It’s not that they didn’t care, the actively promoted it’s use. MLB blacklisted any Reporter that dared report about PEDs.
Now, years later, it’s the players that are blamed when the issue was Systemic. Ironically, the very people that now vote these players in, where also the same group that Failed in their duties to report on the PEDs. Now they judge the players that did what was “not illegal” in an environment that Richly rewarded them for doing so.
I firmly believe there is more paradox in the world than hypocrisy. However, the PED stuff is hypocrisy to its core.
Clear, simple, bright line of before and after the PED rule.
O’ssaycanyousee, Being “eligible” for the HOF and getting elected/voted in are 2 different things. Did you know that???
Yes indeed.
I don’t know what you mean about Bonds and company being “eligible?” You do seem to think PED use is small potatoes though, which is unfortunate. You know PED’s can kill you right?
I personally think it is terrible, and wish it had been dealt with when it was happening…not let it work out for 30 years, then put a rule up.
In my opinion, if you used before there was a rule against it, there is nothing to prevent eligibility. If you used after the PED rule, not eligible. (Because there is testing to Prove use, vs speculation before the testing)
Just saying it’s madness to try and parce out who did and didn’t use when there weren’t rules/testing.
Was it cool that the league and clubs knew, and promoted it’s use? That the league blackballed reporters that wrote about PED use?
Trumbo – I couldn’t reply to your other posts so I grabbed this one just to say, remember the sign at the zoo they says “Don’t feed the animals”? I and a few of us have taken the bait over the past few weeks – Joel/King/Davey/Black – same guy.
I’m pledging to ignore all such posts because this guy is changing names every day and so I g the same thing.
Hate and discord. We all have to hand together and just ignore / fail tj take the bait – me included!
O’sSay…………..
In 1990, Congress cracked down on anabolic steroids with the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, which effectively made them an illegal drug. The next year in 1991, MLB Commissioner Fay Vincent made it clear in a memo that this was very much relevant to baseball.
The directive from Vincent stated “The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited. Major League players or personnel involved in the possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the Commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.”
“This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription.”
It was ignored by the players and MLBPA.
In the a total of 17 players hit at least 40 home runs. Brady Anderson, whose previous career-high had been 21 homers, hit 50 homers. Ken Caminiti had career-high of 26 homers. He proceeded to launch 40 homers in 96. This led to Bud Selig issuing a memo that essentially rehashed what was said in Fay Vincent’s 1991 memo. The memo stated that steroids were illegal in baseball and it urged clubs to make sure players knew it.
To exonerate “Bonds, Clemens, Palmero, etc” is to ignore fact.
Cat Mando — Rules without enforcement are suggestions. MLB covered it’s butt with those Memos, but all the while, organizations were tracking PED use of it’s players and talking w/ clubs about what PEDs they were using.
If players would have been banned, it would have stopped. However, when that 1991 memo was written …was there anyone that got busted? Bonds in 1991 isn’t using.
I think ignoring facts is how Nobody was kicked out after the 1991 memo. Words are sweet, but actions determine outcomes.
Actions by MLB to cover their asses (toothless memos) so they aren’t liable isn’t exactly making a rule and enforcing it. Everybody gained under PEDs, there was no incentive to really stop….until fans had enough.
Which is why they blackballed reporters…rather than letting reports to report!!
Actions speak louder than words. That’s a fact.
I am assuming you have heard the term “in the best interests of baseball”. That isn’t something a sportswriter somewhere came up with.
Major League Agreement of 1921, in particular, Article I, Section 2(a) gave the Commissioner the power to investigate a transaction or practice that he believed could be detrimental to the “best interests” of baseball. Section 2(b) allowed the Commissioner, after finishing his investigation, to take whatever preventative, remedial or punitive action he believed appropriate under the circumstances.
The agreement and those clauses were still in effect when Vincent tried to do the right thing with his directive. The MLBPA, under the leadership of Donald Fehr gave him the finger. It wasn’t until congress stepped in that Fehr took it seriously & despite his later directive, Selig wasn’t much better.
The fact that testing was not instituted and mandated until later does not negate history and does not absolve the players of wrong doing. They new they were not to use PEDs but they also knew that the MLBPA would not allow testing until forced to.
Cat -+ I respect your position, and your not wrong in any legal sense. I would have loved for MLB to have acted on any of the provisions in numerous rules to encapsulate the growing PED fiasco.
Yes, there are rules that were in place that should have prevented the whole issue.
I am not deining there are rules that could have/Should have been used. I do think the correct punishment for using PEDs should be kicked out of the League.
I am making a De Facto/De Jury statement (or at least trying to).
Yes there were rules.
Yes there was PED use.
No actions were taken against PED use.
While I understand/agree with your argument that there were rules that could have been used to kick players out of the league for using PEDs, that’s not the end of the conversation.
The penalty of removing a player from MLB is just and appropriate.
To let a player play a whole career guilty of violating a rule, and to then deny said players career in the HoF, is just MLB not enforcing it’s own rule.
If the league didn’t penalize the players, how can the Hall.
To me, that’s insulting. The stats of their careers are hard facts. Speculation w/o proof of using NOR action taken by the league because of use, is just blind ingonorace of how the era actually played out.
Respectfully, it’s very cut and dry to me. As you said their were numerous rules. MLB did nothing to enforce the rules (actually did the opposite based on players statements of their Org helping them use the stuff), and if a person isn’t guilty because the leagues own standards, then so it goes.
It’s about proof and enforcing the rules. MLB did neither. Just calling it as the facts lay out.
“Bonds, Clemens, Palmero (sic), etc. all used prior to the rule, thus they are eligible.”
This just isnt true
Eighty Raw — Not true they used before the rule, or not true there wasn’t a rule?
I think it is time to take the morality and character out of the equation for voters. The Hall of Fame can still judge whether or not a player’s character matters by EXCLUDING him from the ballot. But if the Hall decides a player is worthy of being on the ballot, then voters should only worry about what they did on the field.
A couple of HOF notes:
1-There are at least a couple of voters that will only vote for players that used PEDs. Ballou and Masserotti both voted for ARod and Manny, but no one else. Meaning they voted for Manny over Beltre. So Manny cheated, and still didn’t have half of Beltre’s stats, but they still vote for Manny over Beltre.
2-Griffin covers TO. Griffin votes for TO player Bautista. Why? To curry favor with other TO players and management? He shouldn’t be selling his vote. If you vote for Bautista over Utley & Beltran, you should have to explain why.
3-Why would someone vote for Pettitte, but not ARod or Manny. The only reason to leave ARod & Manny off is because of the PEDs. But if you leave off superior PEDs users, then you have to leave off the more mediocre PEDs users.
Pettitte used HGH while on the DL to come back from an injury. There is no evidence he used it as a player throughout his active career like A-Rod. Maybe some people don’t believe that but my opinion is to believe Pettitte. ARod is just a liar and always was. But Pettitte isn’t HoF worthy anyway.
PEDs is a popularity contest. ARod, Bonds and Sheffield are universally disliked, verging on being despised. Everyone likes Pettitte, so they don’t hold it against him as much
Wagner in but K-Rod can’t stay in the ballot? Odd considering their save totals and similar ERA.
Until Schilling gets in the HOF is not whole… speaking of holes yeah I get it that his tweets / comments etc make him one but if that was the case the HOF would only consist of Tony Gwynn… what he did was enough… funny not even in Redsox HOF…. Has better chance at cooperstown than Boston!!!
Henry is too weak to put him in without taking a poll first.