The Reds infield has been a story as far back as last summer, as opposing teams have tried to leverage Cincinnati’s depth in that regard in trade discussions. GM Nick Krall and his front office have resisted that kind of move, maintaining they’re happy to stockpile position player talent which they can rotate through the outfield and/or keep in Triple-A.
Manager David Bell addressed the infield mix this afternoon, again pointing to an expectation they’ll bounce players to various positions (relayed by Mark Sheldon of MLB.com). That’s particularly true of Jonathan India, who has played exclusively second base in nearly 3000 career innings on defense. Krall suggested earlier in the offseason that Cincinnati could get India work at first base, while Sheldon writes that the 27-year-old could also see some left field reps.
Bell affirmed today that India is on board with a multi-positional role. “He just wants to be on the field and in the lineup as much as possible,” the manager said. “Obviously as a second baseman, but depending on how things shake out, to be able to get him on the field as much as he wants to be and as much as I want him to be, there may be other positions that he’ll need to play.”
India has graded as a below-average defender at the keystone over his three MLB seasons. Seeing increased action at first base or in the corner outfield could improve his defensive metrics, although more frequent work at a bat-first position would put additional pressure on him to rebound at the plate. India hasn’t taken the expected step forward since his Rookie of the Year campaign in 2021. He owns a league average .246/.333/.394 slash over the past two seasons.
While India’s mediocre defensive grades are a factor in potentially moving him to a bat-first utility role, the bigger driver is Cincinnati’s glut of young middle infield options. Matt McLain, Elly De La Cruz and Noelvi Marte all debuted last season. McLain was excellent, hitting .290/.357/.507 over 89 games while splitting his time between the middle infield positions. De La Cruz flashed the massive physical tools that made him a top prospect, but he ultimately struggled to a .235/.300/.410 line while striking out more than a third of the time in 98 contests.
Marte had the least amount of experience of the group. He played in 35 games after being promoted in the middle of August. He made a strong first impression, running a .316/.366/.456 slash while playing mostly third base. He’s in the mix for the Opening Day job at either shortstop or the hot corner. Marte’s winter ball season was cut short by a hamstring injury, but Krall said this morning that the young infielder is recovering well and remains on track for Spring Training (relayed by Charlie Goldsmith of the Cincinnati Enquirer).
While the Reds weren’t generally expected to pursue infield help this offseason, they bucked expectations by adding Jeimer Candelario on a three-year, $45MM free agent deal. Unsurprisingly, Bell stated that the veteran switch-hitter will be in the lineup on an everyday basis but could see action at a few different spots. “Between DH, first base, third base — he’s going to be an everyday player,” he said of Candelario. “There’s plenty of playing time to go around there.”
Christian Encarnacion-Strand also finds himself in the corner infield/DH mix. Spencer Steer impressed as the primary first baseman a season ago, hitting .271/.356/.464 with 23 homers in his own rookie campaign. The Candelario signing is expected to push Steer to left field on most days, although he’ll likely pick up stray DH and first base reps as the season goes along. There are a lot of options at the organization’s disposal, at least so long as everyone is healthy.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I just think the Jeimer money should have been used for pitching instead.
jorge78
Yup!
My how the turns have tabled
Takes two to sign a contract
Doubt any pitcher wants to pitch in that ball park. Same in Colorado.
If you can’t convince pitchers to wanna pitch at the great American ballpark the next best option is out score opponents.
HBan22
I agree about the Candelario signing. I really admire the Reds spending some money this offseason to try and put together a winning team, and I mostly really liked the moves that they made, aside from the Candelario signing. It was very unnecessary, and I just don’t think that he is that great of a player to be honest. Not enough of an upgrade over any of their other infielders to warrant that kind of investment in him. It would have made a lot more sense to instead just bring Joey Votto back for one more season.
The only other gripe I have has been their failure to acquire a true ace type pitcher, which was their one glaring need going into the offseason. They just barely missed out on Sonny Gray, which is too bad because he would have been a nice fit. I do like the Montas signing, as he was quite good for a few seasons before getting hurt, and on a one year deal there’s little risk. But he’s also far from a sure thing at this point, and I’d still really like to see them land Cease or especially Luzardo. They have a huge excess of hitting prospects, which should appeal to both the White Sox and Marlins. It’s just a matter of how willing they are to go all-in for next season without sacrificing too much of their future.
Hagatha Crusty
There are no sure things in starting pitchers and tbh the move for Montas was prudent and sound.
BrandonGregory74
I also don’t understand the plan for usage for Tyler Stephenson. He only gets hurt playing Catcher, so why not split time with him at First Base?
Coys Bacon
He’s a Catcher. That’s what they want from him. It’s almost 1 1/2 years since his injuries. He was injury feee last year. He was drafted as a Catcher and he hits like an above average one but his fielding is barely average. Pitch framing, which should be more strictly watched with some of these shyster catchers framing balls way outside the zone, is a weak spot for him. So until Robo umps arrive they are stuck with him until someone shows up in the minors better. He didn’t hit enough last year to warrant playing 1B or DH. If he hits like his first 2 years sure. But he was drafted as a Catcher and made his way up here that way.
They have to see how he works it this year doing it more
. If he stays healthy and brings up his numbers then he will be worth more and possible trade bait for more pitching. Provided they develop someone in the minors soon.
rememberthecoop
If you pay them they will come.
Murphy NFLD
That’s probably the smart move but he is likely posturing now to make a trade for a good young SP
Coys Bacon
They offered Gray 2 years. That’s about all they are going to offer to older FA pitchers. Gray wanted STL and they can offer more money. Unfortunately they will be out of the running for higher end staters, which in these days is an oxymoron since they either cannot or will not be allowed to go 6-7 innings on average anymore. You can count on both hands who is allowed to that anymore.
roob
At lease the Candy signing was a good deal. He is definitely worth that much. The issue is they already have, what 5 guys that can play third base?
Obviously, they need more pitching. They have to make a trade. They’re not fooling anyone.
Coys Bacon
Bell likes to tinker with moving people around so I can see him fitting 5 players between 3B Marte and Candelario. SS-2B Matt and EDLC 1B Encarnacion and Candelario. India will get in to 1B and possibly LF with Steer. Then you throw in the DH and you have Bell and most modern managers Analytical dreams. Not saying it’s ideal and if they can find a way to get a 2-3 years until FA type starter then sure do away with India. It will sort itself out in ST and during the year. Some things of this has to play out.
FromTheCheapSeats
No idea why the Reds chose to drop that much on him. There has to be something hidden in the metrics.
Citizen1
NL central teams working on 3 way deals for infielders, to keep them
Off Cincinnati
kripes-brewers
I’m sure the Brewers would like one of those young sluggers, but too much risk trading directly within the division and getting beat up by your former players, lol
toycannon
India to Seattle, please.
EnglishM
Assume you’re a reds fan as can’t see why any Seattle fan would want a defensively below par 2nd baseman with average hitting ability. (99 and 96 WRC+ the last two years).
Heinouanus
Because seattle has had a literal trash bag with a hole in it at second base for the last 3 seasons
Paleobros
I think you mean figurative trash bag with a hole in it.
rememberthecoop
Yeah…a literally version woukd be fun tho…
Heinouanus
Meant what i said and said what i meant. Might as well call the guy hefty
HatlessPete
Omg can you imagine?
Stadium Announcer: At second base for your Seattle Mariners…Hefty Bagg!
Opposing player: You’re a trash bag.
Hefty: NO you’re a trash bag. Hang on…let me get a little high. *burns down a fat jay right there on the field*
Larry Brown's crank
Reds will win the central in 2024
Citizen1
Probably. Cubs, cardinals, pirates didn’t improve much.
Biggie22
Everyone keeps talking about the surplus of infielders but what I’m curious about is the outfield situation…
Sounds like Steer is going to be a full time corner outfielder going forward, which I really like & Friedl will man CF….
The interesting thing is both Benson & Fraley (who are awesome) are basically the same player & kind of redundant…. Both mash righties & get on base a lot but are limited against lefties & are pretty much limited to a corner outfield position…
My concern is the Reds need another option who can fill in at CF in case Friedl gets hurt or regresses because that’s the one position we apparently don’t have backup plan for…
I think I’d consider calling the Astros about Fraley for one if there RH CF options since they’re apparently looking for a LH outfielder or maybe the Nationals and see if Fraley or India could be part of a package to bring back Lane Thomas who has some limited experience playing CF….
Big Red Machine
Solid points. I think Stu is the clear front runner to be back up to Friedl and Barrero would be a DFA before opening day, barring some wild resurgence of Barrero in spring training. Stu is a solid backup on any MLB roster, and as always, Barrero has had the potential, But I agree that you could find a better option out there.
I do think Fraley would be the odd man out since Benson has more everyday playing potential, but I do not think you could get much for a strictly platoon type guy in Fraley.
And apparently no one wants India, otherwise he would be gone by now. This article demonstrates how it really makes no sense why they signed Candelario who probably wouldn’t even be much of an upgrade over a healthy 40 year old Votto.
HBan22
Benson and Fraley both have quite a bit of experience in CF. I don’t think either one of them is much more than “passable” in center, but they can both play there if needed. And I don’t think they’re giving up on Barrero quite yet. He hasn’t hit at the MLB level, but had a solid year at AAA last season and offers a nice blend of power, speed and versatility. I could still see him becoming a solid utility player if he can start hitting MLB pitching just a bit. He’s also still only 25.
cwsOverhaul
BRM……Reds FO thought India would be perceived by sellers of starting pitchers as a solid trade piece to reduce the hit of losing actual good prospects in a deal. He absolutely never would have been. They counted on that when signing Candelario and now spinning the story.
Sellers want its younger/cheaper more controllable prospects.
RichP
At some point management mark my words will need to trade one INF to get more pitching.
Big Red Machine
Where do you think the Reds need more pitching and who would you remove?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I agree, but Arroyo and Collier should be on the table,
Not Steer, Marte, India, McLain, CES or Elly.
I like India getting a lot of DH at-bats, I still think when healthy he can really hit.
I think Arroyo and Collier should be enough to get Cease by mid to late February if the White Sox have not received a better offer.
HBan22
Arroyo and Collier could be a good starting package for Luzardo, too. It would probably take at least one more good hitting prospect (Carlos Jorge, perhaps), and a young SP with upside like Brandon Williamson or Lyon Richardson, to get it done. If I’m the Reds, I pull the trigger on that deal.
astick
That’s too light, I think just to get the marlins to listen you go:
Marte
McLain
Encarnacion-Strand
Candelario
Friedl
Edwin Arroyo
Bronson Arroyo (pitching guru)
Cam Collier
Alfredo Duno
Hunter Greene
Nick Lodolo
Andrew Abbott
Thoughts? Probably need more..:
Tiger22matt
Yeah none of those players are available for Luzardo
rememberthecoop
You guys are both off. Those two are not good starting points for Cease. The ask is enormous right now, which explains why he’s still with the Sox.
cwsOverhaul
WSox would be more in Lowder/Petty/Arroyo range. Luzardo would cost Reds much more due to 3yrs of dirt cheap cost control.
astick
You guys are out of your minds. No one would pay that for Cease. lol. Or Luzardo. Get. A. Grip.
cwsOverhaul
Reds and Orioles have been thinking they can lowball teams willing to “sell” starters since the deadline last season. It backfired any hopes they had of making a run to reach playoffs (in case of Reds) or be competitive for O’s once in after a great regular season. This isn’t a kids fantasy league where you find the pigeon and trade him easily parted players for a valued trade target.
The low cost of Cease/Luzardo for multiple years vs the FA market place is where most of the value comes besides being good.
Biggie22
Or the white Sox are asking a ridiculous price & that’s why Cease hasn’t been dealt yet, despite reports that they’ve been in contact with virtually every MLB team…. Not sure why you would single out just the Reds and Orioles when apparently no other contender (or team for that matter) has met their asking price either…
cwsOverhaul
Atl didn’t line up well. Dodgers/Yanks can and did easily use financial might to water down prospect cost (Glasnow) or risk almost 40mil on FA Stroman.
The upstart Balt and Cincy clubs stick out as dynamic 1st place caliber lineups with 4th/5th place pitching situations. Put Cease aside, why won’t anyone else accept their versions of a realistic return for a controllable SP since last summer?
If Balt is “reluctant” to include headliner of Westburg as sticking point (on top of blocking its top 5), it is a signal things got warm. The unrealistic part is thinking Ortiz is a headliner. All about notion you can get a SP w/o trading a headliner that stings.
JoeBrady
It backfired any hopes they had of making a run to reach playoffs
==========================
The same thing applies to the WS. Their l/t competitiveness will be diminished by not trading Cease.
astick
Dude. No! Cease isn’t worth that. I’m not a homer, just being realistic. Cease isn’t Castillo. He will never be.
cwsOverhaul
The WSox l-t competitiveness is honestly a mess even with trading Cease given dysfunctional ownership. He is as good a bet as there is to stay healthy, not having missed a start since rookie call up. If Ortiz for example is the firm headliner type thru March, it is actually wiser to hold him even though not ideal. Starters go on IL at alarming rate in general…..and reality sets in for otherwise good teams when it endangers playoff outlook.
Still think Chi-Balt are in a useless staring contest that should get worked out soon since Snell/Monty signings have no impact.
earmbrister
Manny, if you’re a Cubs fan, I’m sure you like the idea of India getting a lot of DH ABs for the Reds. He’d be one of the weaker Designated Hitters in all of MLB.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Earmbrister
When India was healthy in 2021, he had an OPS of 0.835.
In 2023, 0.835 would have been better than Jose Ramirez, Marcus Semien, Pete Alonzo, Paul Goldschmidt, Alex Bregman, Xander Bogaerts and Francisco Lindor.
Let’s see a healthy India become a global power.
earmbrister
Hey Manny, I like India. There’s two problems here.
The first problem is that Matt McLain came up and hit even better than India, along with much better defense. And India only plays second (somewhat poorly).
The second problem is that each and every player that you cited play their home games in pitcher friendly ballparks. Every last player that you cited had a better OPS+ (ballpark adjusted) than India’s 2021 OPS+ of 116 (not to mention his two years since of 94 & 100). Every one of those well known players had 2023 OPS+s of 120 or better (up to 131). Comparing players OPSs who play in Citifield, Busch Stadium, Petco Park, etc vs players who play in GABP, Yankee Stadium, etc. is like comparing apples and oranges.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Earmbrister
Yeah, I agree 2021 stats were generally better than 2023 and Reds play in a hitters’ park.
I like India as your DH better than Morel as Cubs’ DH. Watch, if healthy, India will become a superpower
earmbrister
Fair enough.
As to Morel vs India, I think the Cubs have the better player (at 2B). Both have no business at any other position. Morel belongs at 2B. Both are good players, but with Morel being 3 yrs younger, the Cubs might have the better player.
I do expect a rebound from India. Will it last?
cguy
I’m more inclined to believe Arroyo pushes EDLC to the outfield in 2025 , than Dyln Cease is one of the top 3 SP on the Reds 2025 roster. If Cease isn’t clearly #1 or #2 TOR SP next year, Collier and Arroyo would be a massive overpay.
This one belongs to the Reds
People called me crazy when I said they should have moved Elly to CF or RF at Louisville like they did Billy Hamilton. It is much better to do those experiments in the minors instead of at the big league level. They knew going in they would have too many infielders.
I think eventually Elly is the every day RF, if he sticks.
cguy
I can’t understand why people consider aquiring a veteran switch-hitting corner infielder (who’s an XBH machine) is a waste of money. He’s probably worth about half what the Reds paid just so he’s not in the Cubs or Brewers lineup. As for pitching< I doubt it's FA sp that gets the Reds out of the division and into the later stages of the playoffs -in 2024 0r beyond. It'll be Greene, Lodolo, Abboot, Ashcraft, Williamson, Phillips, Petty, Lowder, & Richardson. All those young sp require ML starts to hone their craft. Better to use them- then eventually lose them.
This one belongs to the Reds
When you say that you don’t have room for Votto because tou have too many infielders, then go out and waste 15 million on an infielder, you mihht get people questioning that, especially when you didn’t gulfill your one big need in an ace starting pitcher.
And folks, I hate to burst your bubble, but Cease isn’t it. He is pretty much the same as what you have already.
Coys Bacon
It’s not. Votto is no longer viable as a 1B and has been barely average on defense there for the last 5 years. I would have loved to have him but not for more than a few million. Too many options at 1B and DH to keep Votto. I love the player but it’s what’s best for the team moving forward.
JoeBrady
This one belongs to the Reds
When you say that you don’t have room for Votto because tou have too many infielders
===========================
You’re obfuscating when you use the term “infielders”. It has nothing to do with infielders and everything to do with 1B/DH. Steer will play 1st and CES will DH. That would’ve left Votto as a bench warmer.
Most teams have someone in AAA that can provide more or less what Votto supplies. How much would you pay for that?
Biggie22
Agreed! He’s a clear PROVEN upgrade (unlike the young guys who I still think will be good) over what the Reds have gotten from both India & Votto over the last TWO seasons (not just 1)…. Don’t get me wrong, I love Votto & really like India but at the end of the day the Reds were able to upgrade the veteran role on this team and did so pretty significantly based on the latest results for the players in question…
earmbrister
The Reds acquired their starting pitching exactly how a smaller market team should: via the draft and through trades that brought top pitching prospects back in return. They were not interested in, nor should they have been, signing a FA pitcher to a long contract, whether TOR or not. That’s why the Montas signing works as it is a lottery ticket with only a one year commitment.
Candelario plugs a hole in the lineup. In recent years the Reds would typically have two, three, or four black holes in their lineup. CGuy, as you point out, JC is a switch hitting XBH machine. He’ll play almost every day and has the flexibility to man 3B, 1B, and DH. The posters above, who maintain that India can learn a new position like 1B or LF, ignore the stark fact that India doesn’t hit enough to man 1B, LF, or DH.
The young pitchers need to pitch, in MLB, in order to take the next step forward. The signings of Montas and Martinez provide insurance should one or more falter or when the inevitable injuries happen.
Biggie22
Spot on
cguy
Obviously, others at this site view the current Reds roster as competitive, very exciting, but not yet the finished product. No wine before it’s time- the aging process begins next month.
Poolhalljunkies
It is because he is not viewed as better or even equal in some cases to the much younger talent already on the rostor who play the exact same role(s)
Mariners_Mojo
I could see the mariners trading one of their pitchers to get Noelvi back or maybe Elly or McLain. Similar to when we traded Pineda for montero
yeasties
With hindsight, it looks like the Yankees were looking to dump Montero because they knew he was a bust. I do not think that will be a good comp here especially because the Reds appear to love Marte.
The M’s would have to trade Gilbert or Kirby (or Castillo!) to get Marte back, and I see no scenario where Dipoto would do this because the Mariners can’t backfill the hole in the rotation with the few pennies they have left…
Mariners_Mojo
Maybe the reds think one of their guys is a bust too
Mariners_Mojo
McLain had a .230 average in AA, Elly had 140ks in about 100 games and McLain had 115, and marte never exactly crushed the minor leagues despite his prospect degree. There could be a bust among them and I think Miller and Woo have as good a chance at being good big leaguers as them all
Mariners_Mojo
Pineda also took 3 seasons to ever throw a pitch for the Yankees it’s reasonable to think the mariners didn’t think his shoulder would hold up and moved him when they could. I don’t think the Yankees exactly pulled a fast one on the mariners.
titanic struggle
And I can see you going back to sleep and finishing your dream.. not happening.
jimd-2
I think the Candelario signing was in part for Reds ownership and front office to not have to deal with pressure of resigning Votto. By signing Candelario they sent clear message they were moving on.
I think Reds believe Blake Dunn will be ready to contribute in 2024.and that is why they haven’t acquired another CF option. Dunn is a legit two way CF who can lead off. Could surprise and make team out of spring training. At worst he is up by Mid May…
Biggie22
Good take & I don’t disagree…
jbryant0693
And Hurtubise plays plus CF defense, OBP machine. Dunn and Hurtubise are both solid backfill for CF..
its_happening
Wonder if the Marlins would be a good trade partner for the Reds.
octavian8
Marlins and Reds do match up well. I would make an offer for Luzardo with India, Collier, Arroyo, Williamson or Petty and Fraley or Benson. If that doesn’t pan out I am ready to go into season and take my chances
its_happening
I think the latter is also not a bad strategy. The NL Central is very vulnerable. Reds could play near the top and go hard at the deadline if necessary.
Biggie22
Always thought they matched up well….
Despite reports, I’m still not sure they’d actually move Larxardo while trying to win now but I do think Edward Cabrera could be one they may actually consider moving on from & I would take him in second with a package of India/Fraley & a decent level prospect….
Marlins are still trying to win now so gives them 2 legitimate MLB level players for a pitcher with ridiculous stuff but according to some reports has kinda falling out of favor..
cguy
I believe a year from now , 3 of the Edwin Arroyo, Blake Dunn, Jacob Hurtubise, Rece Hinds, and possibly Nick Kurtz prospects will be in the conversation about everyday Reds lineup for 2025. I’m hesitant to see Reds trade any of their current position players until the trading deadline. A work in progress, it’s just too difficult to see who is expendable now.
Alan Horn
Totally agree.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
The Tigers should trade for Marte.
raulp
If that’s the case, India should had been non- tendered. He has a positive dugout influence, but no trade value and a subpar performance the last two seasons.
jimd-2
Reds have rarely been players at the trade deadline when they are contending. They usually are aggressive in off season to spend to there budgeted amount for the season but don’t do much to add. They have cost themselves numerous shots at winning division, positioning themselves better for playoffs or trying to make playoffs with this approach.. last season is a perfect example. Numerous pitchers were traded for minimal return but the pitchers had salaries. We shall see if the Castellini’s change that approach if Reds contend in 2024.
earmbrister
Last season is a bad example. By 8/1 the rotation was in tatters and the offense was sputtering. Losing big chunks of time to injury for Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, McLain, India, etc. was the reason they didn’t make the playoffs. The Reds would’ve needed to trade for multiple starters, relievers, and even a bat or two in order to stay in contention last year.
As for the numerous pitchers that were traded around the league, many of them fell flat on their faces. And the prices to acquire were expensive, not minimal.
The Reds have much more depth this year should they face another rash of injuries.
ksoze
They are not too deep in the infield
1B CES, Candelario
2B McLain, India
3B Candelario, Marte
SS EDLC, Marte
DH ??
With the DH spot there will be plenty of AB’s for 6 guys. 6 Guys 5 spots, that’s an average of 135 starts for them. Clearly people will get injured over a season, so bump that up to 145 or so for the healthy ones.
octavian8
I agree. We are one injury away from being very happy we have “too many” infielders.
Biggie22
If you have Steer playing LF; Friedl playing CF and one of Benson/Fraley playing RF; the other one will also be in the mix for DH at bats & against RH pitchers, which is basically 70% of the time probably the best option TBH…
cinredsfan
Reds aren’t experienced enough or do they have SP to get 2 guys to throw 150 innings. Maybe 25, but Derek Johnson said 2026.
Castinella the owner only wants to know if he made money.
titanic struggle
That’s hilarious! They could have one of the best pitching staffs in the game! Get outa here..
theoldviolin
The Jeimer signing is why every member of the Reds front office should be fired. The filled a position that was already filled for $15/yr and a 243 hitter who averages 11 hrs, 40 rbis, and a 320 obp. This is going to be Mike Moustakas 2.0.
earmbrister
Please stop. Just stop.
You are completely misrepresenting these stats.
In 2016, at age 22, JC played all of 5 games with 11 ABs.
In 2017, at age 23, JC played 38 games with 127 ABs.
In 2020, JC was limited to 52 games due to injury with 185 ABs (he had an OPS+ of 137 when he was on the field..
Thats 3 seasons where in total he did not even play 100 games. No, he doesn’t “average” 11 HRs and 40 RBIs.
And exactly WHO already filled the 2024 DH, 3B, and 1B positions for the Reds? Not to mention that JC is a better fielder at 3B and 1B than Marte, Steer, and CES. There’s a reason that Steer is being moved to LF: he was a below average to poor defender everywhere else in 2023. And CES is also not a good defender at 3B or 1B.
Candelario was rated the 13th best FA (5th best position player) this offseason and was projected to get a 4 yr $70MM contract. The Reds FO was able to land him for 3 yrs and $45MM. Krall has done a great job with this rebuild.
LDilbert
Mariners Reds trade about to be announced
Mariners finalizing deal for Snell
Mariners part with SP Castillo(traded geno away, his favorite teammate), 1B Ty France, Rf Taylor Trammell
For
Reds 3B Marte(julio best friend from minors) 2B India, Rf Benson.
Reds get France an excellent defender at first coming off a down year. Under contract for 2 years. Castillo ( mariners pay him 1 million bonus for trade. Trammell/Benson is a swap of similar players
Reds taking on Castillo 80 million
And Ty France 7mil/11m via arbitration. Ty France is seriously underrated. Only knock is his speed.
Mariners get faster and younger and cheaper. Lose top pitcher but replace with a local star pitcher. Lose excellent 1B coming off a down year ( career .270/.340 in a pitchers park for RH)
LDilbert
Trammell and Benson are not similar players. For this comment the mariners have to include ,RF prospect Lazaro Montes and Rp Prelander Berroa instead
So the deal stands at
Mariners
Ace Castillo
1B France
Rp Prelander Berroa
Rf Lazaro Montes
For
3B Marte
2B India
RF Benson
Biggie22
I would do it as a Reds fan
LDilbert
Youd definitely be selling high on the marte/ Benson
Mariners if they grab snell would have to part with Castillo
Prelander and Monte’s are high upside prospects in the minors.
This is really way too much to give away from the mariners. Castillo should get all three by himself but payroll shedding has been a big topic this offseason. France is a nice piece of this deal but mariners fans are ready to part with a .290 bat because of his defensive metrics and slow speed. He probably hits .300 for the reds and is a middle order bat.
octavian8
LDibert. Very interesting proposal. Our infield would become kinda thin but our starting rotation would be Castillo, Montas, Greene, Ashcroft and Lodolo. Outfield even thinner. Our payroll gets to where it’s been before so it’s doable.I’m inclined to seriously your offer.
LDilbert
I like it from mariners point of view. It’s risky for us especially if Monte’s turns into yordan Alvarez. Very unlikely! But is got some big tools.
But do you lose to much of your future doing this? Berroa and Monte’s could be something.
Two all stars in France and Castillo is nice get for the reds
Benson could flop and he’s more of platoon I think…
Marte could be an all star but at 3B or 1B . Just as easily he could be sent down or regularly injured
We would probably need a pitching prospect back to make it 4 for 4.
tonyinsingapore
Not easy to move India, as in addition to being subpar at 2b, the MLB StatCast has his arm as too weak for the OF. Mix in wretched road hitting stats in 2023 and there’s likely to be little real interest around the league….