The Red Sox have received trade interest in left fielder Masataka Yoshida, report Jen McCaffrey and Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic. McCaffrey and Rosenthal write that while the Sox aren’t actively shopping Yoshida, they’re open to ways to restructure the outfield.
That aligns with a report from Alex Speier of the Boston Globe last week the Sox were considering dealing an outfielder. The Sox would have more suitors if they shopped an affordable, controllable player like Jarren Duran, Ceddanne Rafaela or Wilyer Abreu. Finding a suitable match on Yoshida would be more difficult, but it’s a possibility that’d clear some desired spending room.
Another move that’d allow the Sox to shed some money: a trade of closer Kenley Jansen. Speier reported this evening that Boston is entertaining interest in the four-time All-Star. Yoshida and Jansen were each free agent pickups last offseason.
Boston signed Yoshida to a five-year, $90MM contract. (They also paid a $15.375MM posting fee to Yoshida’s former team, the Orix Buffaloes.) It was a bet on the left-handed hitter transitioning smoothly to MLB pitching. The 30-year-old had mixed results in his first big league campaign. Yoshida hit .289/.338/.445 over 580 plate appearances. He showed strong strike zone awareness and excellent pure contact skills, yet it wasn’t an overwhelming offensive performance.
Yoshida hit 15 home runs and walked less than 6% of the time he stepped to the plate. Listed at 5’8″ and 176 pounds, he doesn’t have the raw power of a prototypical slugger. Yet the profile is built around his bat, as Yoshida has drawn below-average reviews for his glove dating back to his time in Japan. He’s limited to left field or designated hitter and received subpar grades from Defensive Runs Saved and Outs Above Average.
Detractors pointed to those defensive and power questions when Yoshida was available via the posting system last winter. The Sox, under former chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom, were confident he’d hit enough to overcome that. With Bloom having since been replaced by Craig Breslow, the front office might be less bullish on his projection.
Yoshida’s contract calls for $18MM salaries for the next four seasons. It’s unlikely he’d have landed a $72MM deal covering his age 30-33 campaigns if he were a free agent this winter. As a result, Boston would probably have to offset a chunk of the money to move him — either by including cash considerations or taking some money back in the deal.
Jansen would be a much different trade candidate. His $16MM salary next season isn’t far below what Yoshida will make. He’d be a much shorter-term commitment, though, as he’ll be a free agent after 2024. Jansen had a solid but not overpowering first season with the Sox, pitching to a 3.63 ERA over 44 2/3 innings. He struck out 27.7% of opponents, an above-average mark that nevertheless represented the lowest rate of his career. He still successfully nailed down 29 of 33 save chances, but he wasn’t quite as dominant as he’d been for the Dodgers or Braves.
Boston has a fair amount of depth in both the outfield and the bullpen. That at least opens the possibility of offloading cash in those areas to clear space for other targets. Speier wrote tonight the front office is still seeking starting pitching and a right-handed power bat.
The Sox have been tied to free agent Teoscar Hernández throughout the offseason. Meanwhile, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com reports that Boston is also among the team showing interest in Jorge Soler. Either player would provide plenty of juice from the right side. A Yoshida trade would open a path to playing time in left field or DH. However, Speier indicates the Red Sox have been unwilling to offer more than two guaranteed years to Hernández, who is holding out for a three-plus year pact. It’s unclear if they’d be open to a third year on Soler.
In any case, there are obviously a number of possibilities the front office is still considering. The Sox have also been tied to a number of free agent rotation options, including Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery and Shota Imanaga. Recent reporting has indicated that Imanaga appears a more realistic target than Snell or Montgomery, although the NPB left-hander could top $100MM himself. Speier characterizes the Red Sox as “lurking” on Imanaga but indicates they may not be among the most involved suitors. The southpaw will make his decision before the posting window closes next Thursday.
Trade Yoshida now and good luck signing another Japanese player anytime soon.
I don’t know what the Red Sox are doing.
I heard Wander Franco is available via trade.
I remember when the Yankees and Red Sox filled the news reports and the two signed all of the top players. Now the Red Sox don’t resign their top guys or they trade them. And are always trying to cut payroll. What happen to this franchise?
Lou – Lucchino and Dombrowski were all about winning, now it’s all about profits. John Henry swore off large payrolls after the Sox missed the playoffs in 2019 despite the highest payroll in MLB.
Those were the days when they had the Eastern Sports Propaganda Network (ESPN) all over their nuts. Those days are long gone. Hello Dodgers.
Pretty sure that ESPN still is telling people there is only 1 city west of the Texas, and it is LA, and if it is not given everything the economy will default.
ESPN logic is that a city/county like san diego of 3 million people is too small, and should avoid competing for titles, or free agents, while the 700k around Baltimore is a mid sized market that is worthy.
Fever: The $200M the Red Sox spend on player payroll every year is more than enough to contend. The problem is the decisions being made in the baseball ops department. Hopefully, Breslow can fix the problems, but he can’t flip all the baseball ops personnel all at once.
There is nothing wrong with listening to offers for players. They may only trade these guys for a very good return. All we know now is that they are supposedly listening to offers.
You do realize that the population of DC Metro and Baltimore is around 9 million people right?
Sounds like Steve Cohen after last year.
It’s like the Yawkey Trust is back in charge
Luxury tax…..
They better wise up fast or their gonna see their attendance and ratings crater. People are sick of their crap
suit – No, $200M is not enough for the Red Sox to contend because they don’t have a strong, intelligent, experienced front office. Unless by “contend” you mean still in the WC race at the trade deadline.
But I see you do agree the baseball ops department is lacking. Whatever it is, whether it’s as Theo said an overemphasis on bad analytics or whether it’s as Pedro said a problem with the team culture or simply a refusal to pay more than what they value players, it’s obviously not working. And yes, of course Cora is a big part of the problem.
Fact is the Sox haven’t been close to $200M since 2019 (you didn’t say Lux Tax payroll so it’s assumed you mean what the players were actually paid during each season). In 2021 they were at $180M, in 2022 at $195M and last year $187M. As of right now for 2024 they are at $169M but I certainly expect that to rise when they sign a big bat and #1 SP.
Here’s something to ponder: You imply Breslow has the authority to flip all the baseball ops personnel … if that were true, why hasn’t he? Don’t you find it odd that he brought NOBODY with him from the Cubs?
With the Phillies Dombrowski canned two AGM’s and the farm director. Will Breslow be allowed to do similar? Time will tell.
suit – Excellent post, my thoughts exactly.
However …. not sure if you saw my post a week ago, both Yoshida and Jansen are not scheduled to appear at Winter Weekend. I can understand Yoshida though because of the long trip from Japan, but Jansen being the only pitcher not scheduled is quite odd. Well, Sale wasn’t scheduled either and now we know why.
Box – It’s already started, last year they were selling discounted tickets at Costco and promoting packages of 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs and 4 drinks all for $59 combined. Talk about embarrassing! Almost as bad as Toronto’s Toonie Tuesdays.
Fever: I think we mostly agree. I only pay attention to CBT payroll which has been over $200M except for the shortened 2020 season. Breslow apparently is not allowed to poach anyone from the Cubs for one year after starting with the Red Sox. He may be evaluating the people in the baseball ops department before he makes changes. I think Cora is mostly an average manager and I suspect he was making horrible decisions on purpose to get Bloom fired.
Not that this is indicative, but Masataka had the same OPS that Hideki Matsui had in his rookie season.
I think Masataka will overall be better this year.
suit – I guess my answer to your $200M question is that with the amount which has been committed due to mistakes of the past, it’s not enough.
For instance in 2022 $67M of the CBT payroll was attributed to 4 players who contributed virtually nothing: Sale, Paxton, Barnes and Story. That means spending money to replace them. You see what I’m saying? You can’t be a true contender with a $200M CBT payroll when $67M of it was spent on players who were injured most or all of the season.
I didn’t know that about the Cubs one year rule. Doesn’t that go against the unwritten rule that if a front office person wants to pursue a promotion with another team, they are allowed to do so?
Fever: I see what you are saying about dead money on the player payroll. You can’t compete after you hit a certain level of dead money as you point out. It looks like John Henry is not willing to spend more to make up for last had deals. I guess he figures when in a hole, stop digging. Just guessing. I do think John Henry will spend up to the first luxury tax threshold ($237M this year) and occasionally go over. You are right a team cannot stand in the way of an employee getting promoted on another team, but there is apparently some agreement with the Cubs to not hire anyone away for a year.
suit – Maybe because Breslow was hired so late in the year, the Cubs didn’t want to sustain significant defections during the most critical time of year. It’s a reasonable request.
And FTR I would be perfectly happy to consistently be just under the first threshold at season’s end, which would probably place them Top Ten which they should always be.
Maybe $10M under to start the season, so they have room to take on salary at the trade deadline.
The Red Sox have the perfect cover, namely, the transition from one chief exec to another, to undo any contracts left by Bloom. So Breslow could move Yoshida w/o all of Japan feeling that this is a snub by an unreliable partner. And he could move Story w/o anyone batting an eye. The Cojones Award is reserved for He Would Move On from Devers. That would be a wondrous achievement!
Yeah Red Sox would die in the non playoff gutters to have one guy that meant something to the city. They have F-d that whole franchise up over the last few years. Overpaid and under worked is RSox way of life these days.
You need to get guys that want to play for your team. The Cardinals went through this with Fowler, Leake and Cecil none of which wanted to actually play for St Louis they all just signed because the money was good. I feel like that’s what happened with Story and Yoshida and probably Devers too. Find guys who want to play for you. That’s important.
Lonnie – I agree 100%! Henry wants to emulate the Rays, but he doesn’t seem to understand the Rays habit of getting rid of their star players is the main reason why their attendance and ratings are so bad despite the winning records.
Only one player left from the 2018 championship team, so sad!
As a Cardinals fan I think you guys are gonna like ONeill. He seems like a Boston guy to me.
What guys are from Boston or have expressed an interest in playing for the Red Sox? I can’t think of any off the top of my head. That’s who they need to sign or trade for.
Joel – Montgomery and his wife are living in Boston right now, his wife is doing a residency there. He’s probably the only free agent who would take a comparable offer from the Sox, they won’t need to blow him away with a huge offer.
Well there you go. He’s a Boras client. So is ONeill btw. But yeah try that sure.
ONeill. Huh. Not sure that’s really a Boston fit. Is that a British name?
Fever: I think John Henry wanted and expected to be better than the Rays when he hired Bloom as he outspends the Rays. I think John Henry expected the advantages of the Rays approach to identifying talent, especially with pitchers, but be able to retain good players which the Rays can’t afford to do.
They even get rid of non-stars but fan favorites like Luke Raley. They need one PR guy in the FO to tell the nerds “Nah, not a good idea, mate.”
Dumpster Diving- O’Neill is Canadian.
Well, then. O’Neill can take off, eh?
suit – As usual I agree with you 100%.
But his thinking is seriously flawed. It’s like signing Yoshida because he comes from the same Japanese league as Ohtani.
Bloom was never the brains of the Rays operation, and he was never head of any team’s baseball ops. He’s not Neander. He may be good with analytics, but he was awful at negotiating and valuing players and reading the market and pulling gutsy all-in trades. Hiring Bloom was just as dumb as forcing Dombrowski out.
Fever: I think John Henry had a good idea, but Bloom was not working out the way he wanted or he wanted to scapegoat him. I think he may have the same vision and may think Breslow can do a better job of leading. I think John Henry’s main goal is to be more responsible with money (avoid bad deals and waste), not to be cheap.
There’s only a couple “overpaid” players, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Bloom only made a couple big contracts.
Agreed. I think avoiding bad deals is part of what John Henry wants and Bloom succeeded at that. However, Bloom failed at being competitive which I think John Henry also wants. I’m just guessing about why he hired a guy from the Rays. I see how you got confused by what I wrote. I should have said I think one of John Henry’s biggest goals in general is to be responsible with money (avoid bad deals and waste). I think John Henry also wants to keep the CBT payroll in the $200M to $237M range (first luxury tax threshold) while going higher once in a while. I think he sees other teams succeeding with lower payrolls than this and thinks this level of spending should be good enough to field a very good team. I’m just guessing at what is going on.
Horace – Story is the one they should move, as he hasn’t been productive offensively since signing with them. Between Rafaela and Mayer, shortstop would be covered.
But replacing two productive hitters in Devers and Yoshida? Not gonna happen, unless you want them to tank this year.
Story is at the low point of his value. Yoshida might hit .300 for all of 2024, but his defense is shaky and his power is gone in America–he is ill-suited for the role of DH. It’s not the player I don’t like (although he’s a weak fit all around) so much as the contract. And another year of Devers cutting off the shortstop so he can throw the ball away on the run will be emblematic of misplaced big bucks. Fever, I’m looking for some big change. Kenley should be traded, Martin can close and should be extended one year with an option, and Houck is the closer-in-waiting because he’s got the bulldog mentality. To me, Whitlock is trade bait except for (here it is again) that stupid contract.
Horace and Fever, starting pitching and defense have to improve so the bullpen can last/survive if not thrive. Devers is unmovable without a severe cash consideration so you better fix the OF. I do believe Yoshida will be a top 10 hitter in 24 but if the savings by moving him allows the team to get an ace type starter, you do it. Separately, the team should trade a young outfielder for another starter (or with others, etc.). Then trade Jansen for young chips and let Martin and Houck close with Whitlock returning to the key spot give through seven inning spot.
I say dump both of them if $ is going to be used for a true ace. They aren’t competing this season so why do we need Jansen. I never liked the Yoshida deal to begin with. His defense is bad. Get a right handed power hitter who can play better D in left. I can’t see anyone wanting Story so they are stuck there. Mayer what is he the best of Nomar and Bogey in one specimen. Kid isn’t exactly tearing it up in AA. Use him as a trade chip for a frontline Starter.
Horace – Left field defense should be a non-factor. There’s a long history of Sox left fielders that were poor defensively including Manny and Rice.
When the LF offense outweighs the defense, you go with the offense every time. If Yoshida doesn’t put up at least a .800 OPS then you look at replacing him.
Always Right – Not to the level they expected when they signed him, no.
“If the $ is going to be used for a true ace” I keep seeing this over and over but where are you getting this mythical true ace that only costs money? Monty is a good number 3 starter. Imanga throws a 91 mph fastball like 70 percent of time. Nobody is mistaking him for an ace. Snell has only topped 120 innings twice. There are also no non competitive teams just sitting on highly paid ace they’d unload in a salary dump so ……
You are absolutely right which is why they would likely put Teoscar Hernandez there or another bat with an average or below glove and be just fine. The problem with Yoshida is not just that he stinks as an outfielder but he wore down so much playing outfield his offense cratered in the second half. he seems to be no better than a half time outfielder at best. you’re going to give him half his abs at DH which prevents putting a quality right handed big ol bat there to balance the lineup. I’d much rather have two of Teoscar, Soler, Duvall, Jd Mart, or Justin Turner than just yoshida clogging up two positions out of necessity. Or even have Duran in left where he is better suited Rafaela in center and still have room for one big righty bat as the DH.
I would pass on Imanga. Monty pay him it isn’t our $ . Possibly trade for a young arm use the $ to lock him up long term. Idk . I just don’t see the point in keeping Jansen for the year on a non competitive team. They over paid as it was for Yoshida now everyone wants to keep him. I know historically they have had some poor defensive in left field. Yoshida bat is not Manny or Jim Rice . Get a right hand bat with power.
Why would Martin accept a one year extension? Free Agency would bring him a multi year deal.
Just move Toshiba to dh. Add a Soler or Hernandez for left, and occasionally swap them for rest. Doesn’t seem like its that complex a problem.
Wouldn’t he be pushing 39 years old in 2025? He’s been good but he isn’t Verlander. Little chance he gets a multi year deal. Awfully surprised the dodgers didn’t keep him at the reasonable price we got him for, in hindsight.
You’re not wrong but for some reason because of the money involved nobody seems keen on making him a full time DH. Also his bat isn’t prototypical DH and and we have so many lefty hitters we could use both spots for righties and be better off. Also a strong argument can be made if you take money completely out of it – living with yoshida in the field is preferable to living with Devers at third. He costs you more runs. But again bc of his salary they prob won’t. It does seem dumb to double down on these mistakes tho I mean you’ve already paid the stupid money out just get your worst defensive player off the field.
Bob – Monty has a 3.48 ERA and 1.184 WHIP over his last three seasons. On most teams that would make him a #1 or #2.
I think you are failing to realize the state of MLB pitching this decade. ERA’s under 3.50 are considered very good and 90% of all pitchers have had health issues at some point. Other than Cole, how many top pitchers can you name that HASN’T had health issues? I’ll wait.
Fever – You must never have pitched to write what you just wrote!! Left field defense matters and it matters even more than usual because Devers is at 3B. You need quickness to get the the balls he misses. You need the ability to track balls to the Green Monster and know when to charge forward and catch it over your should heading towards the infield. Yoshi isn’t that guy. He’s got to DH as does Devers.
That makes Yoshi the odd man out or the team defense is at the bottom of the MLB. Not pretty choices but a normal GM could decided this issue instantaneously if he ever watched Devers play. He must be the DH and Yoshi must go.
No chance of making Devers go so it’s all on Yoshi. Too bad for Boston fans since he is a nice OBP type guy that would look awesome in the two spot behind Duran or Rafaela but you CAN’T win and play Devers in the field so what’s best for the team must be the action taken by the new GM to gain credibility.
stymeedone – Which outfielder don’t you like? Rafaela is better than Hernandez, Duran plays a position Hernandez can’t play and one could argue Abreu is comparable to Hernandez and A LOT cheaper. Plus, if Anthony continues on his path to being an all-star MLB player, he’ll be up in 2024.
There is absolutely no need for Hernandez even if Yoshi is traded.
Fever – Alcantara and Nola have thrown 20 less innings than Cole. Wheeler, Berrios, and Castillo are the only others within 100 of Cole over the last five years.
The good news….Giolito is next after Castillo!!! Of course he’s going to play for Cora so that’s probably going to change.
TF – Ever since I was a little tater tot, it’s been drilled in my head that ‘strength up the middle” is where defense matters most …. I’ve heard it a million times from well respected baseball people, and their reasoning makes sense. There’s a lot more action in CF, they have the most territory to cover and they decide whether to call off the corner OF’er on a fly ball.
Left field is also usually where the team puts the OF’er with the weakest arm, because he generally does not need to throw the ball as far to prevent the advance of any baserunners.
Catcher, shortstop, 2B and CF …. those are the defensive positions that matter the most. I’d also add RF in Fenway because it’s arguably the most challenging RF in MLB.
Think about it …. if a guy is an elite OF’er, where does he usually play? CF..
Have you ever heard of an infielder moving from 1B or 3B to middle infield? Nope, it’s usually the other way around. Weaker middle infielders move to 3B, weaker 3B move to 1B, and weaker CF’s move to corner OF. You will never see a left fielder move to CF because he’s weak.
stymee – Totally agree, if Martin has another season like last year then he ain’t accepting less than a 2-year deal. I doubt more than that though, after all he will be 38 next season.
stymee – I am pretty sure that’s the plan, unless Sony gets traded.
No, $200M is not enough for the Red Sox to contend because they don’t have a strong, intelligent, experienced front office. Unless by “contend” you mean still in the WC race at the trade deadline.
But I see you do agree the baseball ops department is lacking. Whatever it is, whether it’s as Theo said an overemphasis on bad analytics or whether it’s as Pedro said a problem with the team culture or simply a refusal to pay more than what they value players, it’s obviously not working. And yes, of course Cora is a big part of the problem.
Fact is the Sox haven’t been close to $200M since 2019 (you didn’t say Lux Tax payroll so it’s assumed you mean what the players were actually paid during each season). In 2021 they were at $180M, in 2022 at $195M and last year $187M. As of right now for 2024 they are at $169M but I certainly expect that to rise when they sign a big bat and #1 SP.
Here’s something to ponder: You imply Breslow has the authority to flip all the baseball ops personnel … if that were true, why hasn’t he? Don’t you find it odd that he brought NOBODY with him from the Cubs?
With the Phillies Dombrowski canned two AGM’s and the farm director. Will Breslow be allowed to do similar? Time will tell.
1
Monty has a 3.48 ERA and 1.184 WHIP over his last three seasons. On most teams that would make him a #1 or #2.
I think you are failing to realize the state of MLB pitching this decade. ERA’s under 3.50 are considered very good and 90% of all pitchers have had health issues at some point. Other than Cole, how many top pitchers can you name that HASN’T had health issues? I’ll wait.
Cojones award jajajajajaja
Neither do they. Such an odd franchise these days.
Zach – They really are, and it was certainly reflected in all the “No thank you” responses they got for the head of baseball ops position.
Free agents don’t want to be shown the door one year after signing with the Sox. If both Jansen and Yoshida are traded this offseason, it won’t be a good look at all.
They might actually appreciate being able to flee the ship before it sinks…
Fever: I think a lot of people turned down interviewing for the Red Sox head of baseball ops because 4 years is not always enough time to implement all necessary changes to an organization. I think we will see Breslow on the job longer than the 4 years given to Dombrowski and Bloom.
Baseball ops people don’t want a short term stay either, but John Henry uses the position as a revolving door.
Fever – I don’t think people are shallow enough to think like that. I think people will realize Bloom was an idiot and Breslow had to clean up all his bad contracts.
The facts do matter and trading Yoshi, Jansen, Story, Devers or Martin would not reflect poorly on the organization, they would reflect positively on Breslow.
Ever since I was a little tater tot, it’s been drilled in my head that ‘strength up the middle” is where defense matters most …. I’ve heard it a million times from well respected baseball people, and their reasoning makes sense. There’s a lot more action in CF, they have the most territory to cover and they decide whether to call off the corner OF’er on a fly ball.
Left field is also usually where the team puts the OF’er with the weakest arm, because he generally does not need to throw the ball as far to prevent the advance of any baserunners.
Catcher, shortstop, 2B and CF …. those are the defensive positions that matter the most. I’d also add RF in Fenway because it’s arguably the most challenging RF in MLB.
Think about it …. if a guy is an elite OF’er, where does he usually play? CF..
Have you ever heard of an infielder moving from 1B or 3B to middle infield? Nope, it’s usually the other way around. Weaker middle infielders move to 3B, weaker 3B move to 1B, and weaker CF’s move to corner OF. You will never see a left fielder move to CF because he’s weak.
neither do they
@Joel P: Why do you suppose people in Japan would think any differently about a Japanese player being traded than people in the US and Puerto Rico would about an American player being traded or people in Cuba or the Dominican Republic would about players from those nations being traded?
Japan has its own professional baseball leagues, and players there get traded all the time. Japanese fans know that it’s part of the game.
How often does a guy sign a long term deal and then get dealt the next year? It doesn’t happen often and for good reason. That’s a problem regardless of what nationality he is. But since the Red Sox have very little history with Japanese players it’s a bigger problem. It’s just a bad look.
Name the last guy you can think of that signed a deal for 5 years or longer and was traded after year 1. Just name him.
Robbie Ray
1989?
For the guy who said Ray that was 2 years not 1.
This never happens folks. For good reason…..
@Joel P: It was a 3-year contract, but the Twins traded Frank Viola to the Mets during the first season in 1989.
Joel – You are 100% correct!
Even Panda and Crawford, as bad as they were, lasted at least two years before the Red Sox moved them.
Cardinals traded Mike “shoplifter” Leake but again after 2 years not 1. It just doesn’t happen.
Except with Viola, albeit 34 years ago.
kahnkobra: Robbie Ray signed with the Mariners in the 2021-2022 offseason but not a bad recent example given how little he pitched for Seattle
I think the Red Sox have a pretty good history with Japanese players. In 2007, Diasuke Matsuzaka and Hideki Okajima helped them win the World Series. In 2013, Koji Uehara and Junichi Tazawa helped them win the World Series. How many teams can you name with more than one Japanese player? Not many. Just two years ago, they also had Hirokazu Sawamura.
I absolutely agree and stated before that if they dump Yoshida they likely never sign another good Japanese player. It IS a bad look and I’m surprised they seem to be considering it. However I’m also elated they are considering it because it’s the right roster move for this team. Also I now believe the effects could be mitigated by how they frame it. If other teams are actually coveting Yoshida and they take an offer that makes sense for both sides looks a lot different than a ruthless salary dump if Yoshida after just one up and down year, if they frame the optics the right way. The regime change helps with the Optics too it would have looked horrible if Bloom was the one trading him after being all in. Also it’s looking more and more like the best pitchers from Japan aren’t signing in Boston anyway. Hell Sox supposedly paid more than double what nearly every other team had yoshida valued at just to get him here. If we are paying DOUBLE value Japanese players will certainly still sign here.
Show them the money. They will sign.
For sure they will. Bloom over payed for Yoshida. I am sure the $ had a lot to do with him landing in Boston. It’s not like Breslow inked him then wants to trade him . Different office. I don’t get it people want to tip toe around not to offend this guy . It’s sports guys get traded or released all the time .
Blue Baron You need to understand a little more about Japanese culture.
That culture is a reason the Braves likely won’t ever have a shot with a Nippon player, they treated Kenshin Kawakami awfully back in the day.
I doubt that is the case. It’s a player by player basis I would assume.
Breslow isn’t moving him because he’s against Japanese players. He’s moving him for a business reasons. Perfectly fine.
I did read somewhere that Hideki Matsui and Yoshida had the same OPS their first season… something to think about.
I don’t know how I feel about moving him. I think Yoshida can mature as a hitter but he really is only a DH… I guess I’m open to it if the deal is right.
Boston might have to toss in some cash, but I could see Yoshida being a good fit as DH in Toronto. They need someone who hits for average and has some power.
If you put Marcelo Mayer, Roman Anthony and Ceddane Rafaela on the table …. You can acquire Dylan Cease as the ace of the staff. ….. We can get this done today.
That Cease trade would be a disaster, the white sox would fall all over themselves to make that deal.
Listening isn’t trading.
agreed and its just ridiculous for this to even be a rumor, besides I can’t believe any other team wants or needs a $20million below average fielding outfielder hitting .289 with 15 home runs a year anyway. Make him the DH and let O’Neill, Duran and Abreu can play outfield. He’s never going to be Ohtani but make the most out of his hitting skills.
It just seems odd they would be looking to deal them a year after signing them.
They were Bloom signings. Breslow probably wouldn’t have made them himself.
John henry has ordered Breslow to continue to slash the payroll
Yup. Henry’s other financial investments did an Amber Heard in bed, post-COVID. I believe he’s still underwater. He’ll take the occasional flyer or buy as low as possible when necessary. The days of the Theo days are long gone.
YBC – It’s hard to say. Breslow has acquired some players that Bloom would have acquired, and he’s interested in bringing back Paxton. They both have utilized the same analytics department, the rest of the front office remains unchanged, and Henry had to have signed off on the Yoshida deal … although that could have been driven by the notion it would help them land Yama.
@Akitas: I definitely do. But that’s partly why I asked the question.
Jansen was only a two year deal.
Don’t focus on ‘a year after signing’ but instead focus on ‘final season before free agency’ to make.it make more sense.
Nobody would hold that trade against them.
As for Yoshida, I think they should see if he can build any value with him for the first half, then evaluate trades closer to the trade deadline. His was a longer deal, but it’s pretty clear he’s a spare part to this team.
I don’t think trading him would necessarily hurt you further with future Japanese free agents, any damage you’d incur was already done just from the reports they are exploring trading him actively.
GASox – I totally agree and already wrote they should keep Yoshida until at least the trade deadline. Trading him now would be a sell low situation, he has too good contact skills to give up on already.
One thing I wanted to point out, they aren’t actively trying to trade him. They are simply receiving a lot of interest from other teams, which is understandable because everyone has heard the Sox are looking to reduce payroll even more (go figure).
BTW – Between Teo and Soler, I’d much rather have Soler. Who would you prefer?
If teams are truly coming to the Sox, no discount should be needed and I think they thought his fielding would be hidden by the small left field. The real issue is Breslow seems to understand that better defense should translate into better pitching. Trading Yoshida or Duran becomes important (or doesn’t) depending on the team’s additional moves.
I think Boston needs both Soler and Teo. Then they can trade those young OFers mentioned for pitching or another glaring need. This of course hinges on whether they want to stay some semblance of the Red Sox everyone knows versus the penny pinchers they’re seemingly becoming.
Fever and GA – Yoshida needs to go and if he does that’s a great sign that Breslow might actually know what he’s doing. NOBODY in their right mind keeps redundant players and Devers makes Yoshida redundant. If Yoshida is traded then there is no excuse to not move Devers to DH.
Remember my list of needs!!!!
1 – Fire CORA
2 – Move Devers to DH
3 – Trade Verdugo and Yoshida
4 – Get a SP1 and SP2
5 – Get a 3B
6 – Get a 2B
7 – Get two lefty late inning relievers
#3 is half done and moving Yoshida makes so much more sense than Rafaela or Anthony or Duran.
#6 is done and it cost us Sale and saved a meager $8.6MM.
If they can get two SPs to go with Bello, Houck and Crawford with Pivetta in long relief and Whitlock as the stress inning guy their pitching staff would be set except for the lefty relievers.
If they can get a guy like Chapman which clearly sends the message to Devers that he’s the new DH after Yoshi gets traded, the world would be a better place!!! We would have defense and offense and improved starting pitching. Trading Kenley to get a SP1 or SP2 would be fine. With Giolito and two new SPs Houck and Whitlock could move to the back end of the bull pen to cover the closer role. The team is in transition so dealing Story would open up funds for a real closer.
If I were Brewlow I would trade Jansen to Philly for Aidan Miller a young 3B who is a prototypical 3B with power and a good glove. He’s 19 years old. Bohm is a good 3B for Philly right now so DD might be willing to part with the prospect for Kenley. Philly needs a lights out closer.and they could give us back Alvarado to keep the salary differential down..
Marcelo Mayer, Roman Anthony and Ceddanne Rafaela for Dylan Cease. Cease is still cheap for two years. Money still left to spend.
You drew a laugh, FPGAR. Trollfree is genius.
Very Barry…. that is the stupidest thing I have seen in years. on this site… SMH
If they sign Hernandez and Soler, then OF defense becomes a major weakness.
Hernandez and Soler are bad “D” big ” K” players just what the Sox don’t need..
TF – If by redundant you mean defensively challenged, why aren’t you including Casas with them? He was downright putrid at first base.
It’s hard to say. Breslow has acquired some players that Bloom would have acquired, and he’s interested in bringing back Paxton. They both have utilized the same analytics department, the rest of the front office remains unchanged, and Henry had to have signed off on the Yoshida deal … although that could have been driven by the notion it would help them land Yama.
JERRY. Please we need Yoshida. What a perfect fit he would be
I think he would fit in well with the Mariners. If the Red Sox are covering some of the money it could be possible. Wonder what would be a good starting point for a trade. The Red Sox may want one of the Mariners young controllable pitchers.
Mariners are out of bad contracts to trade. I think their offseason moves are about over.
Yeah but sox missed the boat as Giants beat them to a similar deal with Seattle.
The Sox have to cover some of yoshida’s contract to just make him tradable. That doesn’t mean you actually get something good in return unless they cover a huge amount of that money. Yoshida is a bad fielding left fielder a position that it’s some what okay to be a bad fielder at but then you need to rake. He is a decent hitter but not one you want in left or at dh. I think it’s going to be difficult to trade him without eating a and contract or a lot of
Money if they want anything decent in return.
Seibu – Perfect fit? How? He’s a redundant DH costing $18MM a year with a manager who can’t figure out he should hit second. There is nothing perfect about Yoshida being a Red Sox.
I never said perfect. My bet is on Haniger being injured atleast part of the season. Yoshida is at the least serviceable for the career he has had with limited injuries. If the Mariners didn’t take on all of the $18 million he is owed yearly, he would be an upgrade to their roster. Yes I understand they have Garver and Yoshida is redundant, but Garver has an injury history as well.
If by redundant you mean defensively challenged, why aren’t you including Casas with them? He was downright putrid at first base.
Honestly I did not watch many red Sox games this year. Casas is still a work in progress for sure. The problem with the red sox is they have several defensively challenged players on their roster and only 1 dh spot.
Seibu – There is nothing wrong with Casas defensively. He’s not a gold glover but he is league average which means he’s light years better than Devers.
If Boston can afford to play Devers at 3B, there is absolutely no issue with Casas at 1B. Yoshida on the other hand is a problem defensively. He like Devers, is below league average. 1/3 as much as Devers but that includes about 85% of the universe of defensive players.
Trading Yoshida to NY is not a good idea. NY has nothing we need unless they are going to give up Cole and that’s not going to happen. Yoshida and Jansen need to be coupled in a trade for a top end SP.
Mariners outfield is now set with Haniger and Raley in there. And we have Garver at DH , so no room for Yoshida…(maybe at the deadline when some inevitable injuries will have created some holes.)
Red Sox falling apart at the seams
The only squirrels you see on the road, flattened, are the indecisive squirrels. Right or wrong, the decisive ones are in the trees safe. Boston seems to be dumbstruck in the middle of the road. lol
I love that analogy. Made me laugh.
I actually don’t see this as the Sox falling apart. I see this as a new gm who didn’t like the makeup of his team. Same has provided them with very little value of late and was costing a lot. They got a young maybe not great fielder but should be able to hit well enough to overcome that at 2b guy in Grissom.
Verdugo wasn’t working out so they dumped him. Yoshi doesn’t fit the team so they will try and dump him. Then Jansen is a closer with one year of control left. If someone will take him then that makes sense. Plus they are in the market for guys that cost money so it’s not like they are just dumping all payroll. This seems more like a realignment that you see from front office changes.
SIMM.: I agree. We had to deal with Bloom letting guys who won a championship for us walk for nothing in return. Give this guy a chance. I can’t see keeping Yoshida if they can get something good just because it might offend future signings of other Japanese players. Seriously they are coming to America to play and make more $ . Suck it up .
MACHO MAN TO PHILLY GET IT DONE DD!
Let the lobbying begin
Ooooo yea!
Well Harper is his favourite player and he did some lobbying to sign there? It’s just a wonky fit as a LF /DH and a LH hitter to boot? (although with better than average splits)
Wonder what a deal would look like to start?
Inclusion of Jansen?
Philly more of a YMCA kind of town
The house band should be Disco Tex & the Sexelletes.
Will have to pivot from the YMCA trope and offer Hall and Oates…..But Philly did give ya’ll the Disco Biscuits and the Hooters as well.
Monty Rock The 3rd!!!
Oh the Biscuits, what a silly, heavily inebriated good time. Fun band.
Yup, we may have stumbled the same venues…..
Better than Frisco with Starship and Huey Lewis.
Huey Lewis was my first concert in 8th grade, had to lie to my parents. Used up a ton of my caddying money for tickets, trolley and merch!
Philly has TSOP and the Roots, Elton tribute to Billy Jean King, and Valkyrie moonlighting as Creeds girl at the hip Johnny Brendas yay! Bruce crooning a depressing song on a Casio while walking thru rubble. Nay.
Hey now, how about the Grateful Dead and Metallica for Frisco. Little bit better.
If you’re a west coaster, we absolutely have! Saw the biscuits at a festival, but used frequent jam band shows and the like.
Were you a Danny Noonan, forced to choose between Ted Knight and Chevy?
Was totally a Sooper Looper.
Caddyshack came out the year we all started looping. Had a vcr tape of it a year later, that and a tape of animal house followed us everywhere for a few years.
Can’t tell you how many weekends were spent looping 3 rounds… My first real job that didn’t include the country club was my 2nd year out of college, started in 6th grade.
Who would close in Boston if Jansen leaves? In house options?
I’ve always thought Whitlock would make a good closer.
When fully healthy, obviously
Martin I assume
Does it really matter???
My personal hope is that if Jansen + Martin are moved they’ll put Houck + Whitlock in the bullpen where they belong and use the money to sign starting pitching.
This doesn’t feel like a “reinvest the money” type of situation.
I’d disagree, though I understand your lack of faith. Some of the reports about them waiting to sign other free agents “until they have the money to make the offer” suggest to me that Breslow’s basically dissatisfied with Bloom’s investments and wants to reallocate that money without raising Henry’s overall expenditures. I don’t think ownership would have made the comments they did about this being an aggressive offseason if they intended to scale even further down, but I can absolutely see the mandate being “not a penny more than we’re already spending.”
Much of the offseason so far has been committed to swapping salaries around in order to tinker (i.e. Verdugo to bring on O’Neill, Sale to bring on Giolito), so it wouldn’t surprise me if the money they’re trying to offload is in the interest of signing Montgomery or someone like him.
How are you going to get out of bad contracts without spending any money and expect to improve????
Sale
Verdugo
ONeill
Giolito
I don’t see a difference at all.
I agree with you! They’re going to finish in fourth or fifth place, third if everything breaks right. It’s not a winning strategy. But I don’t think THEY know that.
I think maybe they do. That’s why they wont reinvest the money they are saving by dumping these players
Joel –
Verdugo was a lefty bat in an all-lefty outfield, who had shown thus far his ceiling to be a slightly above average hitter without much pop, and, who not only had some issues with effort, but was on the bad side of his manager.
ONeill helps fix the lefty heavy lineup, and gives potentially a higher ceiling than Verdugo as far as bat profile is concerned.
Sale, as much as I loved him as a player, is older and hasn’t been on the field much. Some is freak injuries, but nonetheless, you have to strongly question how many innings you can count on as a floor.
Giolito is about 6 years younger, and, has a workhorse reputation. No serious injury issues, tales the ball regularly, and saves innings on the bullpen. He also has strong upside, and, his first half of 2023 looked like a rebound from ’22 until he was traded and uprooted twice while dealing with personal issues in the divorcing. It’s possible that all that disruption was something he didn’t adjust well to, but, wouldn’t be occurring this time around. We will see.
But both thise changes can, depending how you look at it, represent upgrades.
ONeill is similar to Sale both have big time upside both have had big time injuries recently. So why trade for ONeill and then trade Sale away??? It doesn’t add up.
Oneill isn’t a SP. Served a different purpose.
They needed a RH bat for the OF and lineup in general.
Then, in the rotation, they needed a workhorse for bulk innings.
Those were the two changes that were being sought.
What do you need bulk innings for if you are trading away the only pitcher that MIGHT actually be an ace?
And again if Giolito is good he’s gone after 1 year. If he’s not you are stuck with him.
Bulk innings spare the bullpen. That in turn makes it easier to pull other SPs you might have to leave in longer had the BP been gassed, improving your other SPs output. Then there’s also preventing dead arms etc etc to the BP itself.
As far as no potential Ace on the roster, let’s wait until the end of the offseason to make that determination.
Even if they don’t add someone, he’s still got the double upside – either dependable bulk innings of #4/5 quality, or, a pleasant surprise who maybe decides to sign an extension if he rebounds, or, gives a prospect for leaving.
I liked the Giolito signing when Sale was still with the Red Sox. After trading Sale I just don’t think it makes sense. If he doesn’t bounce back you spent 39 million for 2 years of an ordinary pitcher.
When we consider that an aging Kyle Gibson is making 13 a year that price doesn’t seem so high.
We are all aging son. Gibson has a club option for 2025. Giolito has a player option. Gibson sucks in 2024 he’s gone. Giolito sucks in 2024 he stays if he’s good he’s gone. That’s a big difference there.
Can O’Neill stay healthy? That’s why another righty hitter is mandatory.
I’m not saying the Giolito signing is my favorite thing in the world (I’ve posted elsewhere that his home run numbers, performance decline in the wake of sticky substance bans, and difficulty pitching outside the weak AL Central are obviously not good signs), but I also think that acting like 20/year is a ridiculous overpay relative to the rest of the pitching market is disingenuous. That’s roughly in line with what the going rates have been all offseason.
thecroc – 5th is a lock with Soto in NY. TB will be fine. They are always ugly on paper. Toronto should see Guerrero bounce back with Bichette and do better. Baltimore should keep getting better with Mullins healthy. Boston is a lock for 5th until Cora is fired and Devers is moved to DH. Trading Jansen impacts money much more than wins. Trading Yoshida impacts both money and wins because the DH goes to Devers.
Joel P – What money did they gain from dumping anyone? The $9.2MM for Verdugo went towards Giolito’s 19.5MM. The Sale money was less than Verdugo’s!!! It’was an $8.6MM savings and we lost our most experienced starter.
Think of this as pruning the bad contracts. Verdugo was a bad contract. Sale was a bad contract but the pruning wasn’t very effective. Yoshida, Story and Devers are the remaining big contracts to prune on the hitting side and Kenley and Martin are on the pitching side. Frankly, I’d throw Giolito into the list of bad contracts as well.
Moving Jansen and Yoshida could get you a very good SP1.
Verdugo was a dump job. Bad blood between him and Cora. Irrelevant as to whose fault it was. One had to go and it wasn’t going to be Cora.
Hi, Troll! I agree that NYY and TB have us beat, but I actually think that if they stand pat Toronto might be worse than us. They have zero depth anywhere on the roster, have seen their regulars underperform, are fully aware that their contention window is closing when Vlad and Bo inevitably depart, and have decided thanks to Atkins that running out the likes of Kiermaier, IKF, Biggio, and Espinal as starting regulars is a winning idea.
Another way to think about it is that they were only “pretty good” last year and have done nothing meaningful to replace two of their more productive players (Chapman + Belt). Could be a dumpster fire, especially if Manoah doesn’t rebound.
We’ll you did leave out the whole 6 years of a stud bat second baseman we acquired on one side of that ledger but I guess that’s not significant to you eh?
Idk man I might be going out on a limb here but I think it’s because we traded two middling relief prospects that Breslow probably wasn’t enamored with to get O’Neil while trading Sale got you a stud bat second baseman for the next 6 years. Some people, obviously not you, think there’s some value there. My God man. How many posts are you going to make evaluating giolito/O’Neil vs Sale /Verdugo and completely leave Vaughn Grissom from the comparison. Please explain his repeated exclusion from your evaluation of these deals.
Dewey – A right handed hitter is mandatory? At what position? We have a starting 9 right now and we have
McGuire as back-up catcher
Valdez as back up middle infielder
Dalbec as back up corner infielder
Abreu/O’Neill as back up outfielder
There are no spots for another right handed bat unless you sit better outfielders like Rafaela, Duran or Abreu.
The entire problem stems from Devers not going to DH. If we got a new power hitting 3B then the infield would only have one lefty plus Devers at DH. The outfield would be two lefties and a righty. That’s pretty balanced. Keeping both Devers and Yoshi creates the imbalance.
thecroc – Sorry, Just saw this one. The Blue Jays struggle because Vlad Jr isn’t a leader since he was successful his whole life and has hit adversity in the majors. You don’t rally around Vlad, he’s a spoiled brat like Devers. The world has to revolve around him for it to be good. For that to happen, he must perform better. The same is true for Devers. Without Bogey his best friend and the other support of JD, Mookie, Benny, Holt and others, he’s not the pampered brat that Cora turned him into. He’s a guy who wants the world to watch him but when he’s average during his many slumps, he behaves like a two year old. He pouts, hits himself on the helmet and generally acts like the world is on his shoulders and he’s failing. That’s on Cora. He never let Devers mature properly and now his childish behavior is old to fans. The game isn’t about him and if he moved to DH some fans might grow some respect for him. He’s one of the most selfish players of his generation much like Vlad Jr.
So Toronto needs Bichette to stay healthy and do his thing. Toronto has dropped two slots behind us in spending but they have all-stars and we don’t. Springer, Gausman, Bassitt, Guerrero, Berrios, Bichette, Green, Kiermeyer and Kikuchi are their top paid guys. They have more talent than we do.
C – Jansen/Kirk vs Wong/McGuire (hands down TOR)
1B – Guerrero vs Casas (Hands down TOR)
2B – Biggio vs Grissom (Draw)
SS – Bichette vs Story (Hands down TOR)
3B – Espinal vs Devers (Hands down BOS on O and TOR on D)
LF – Varsho vs 0’Neill/Abreu (Hands down TOR)
CF – Kiermeyer vs Duran (Draw)
RF – Springer vs Rafaela ( TOR)
DH – DeJong/Kirk vs Yoshi (BOS)
SP – Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Kikuchi, Manoah vs
TBD, Bello, Giolito, Houck Crawford (Hands down TOR)
CL – Romano vs Jansen (draw)
Bullpen – (Draw)
Toronto has more talent and should finish 10 games ahead of us. Much like TB and NY and BAL. All four should win over 90 games and 81 is an aggressive total for BOS as of today.
Bob – A stud bat 2B? Are you suggesting Grissom is that guy? Why? His numbers don’t suggest that. Do you have special insights into his future? Most guys don’t jump that dramatically in performance as you are suggesting.
Have you looked at his numbers. His strength is his batting average. He’s an excellent hitter but he doesn’t hit for power and he’s not particularly fast but he does have adequate power and speed. He should end up a slightly above league average 2B during his controlled years. I’m not sure he’ll be an all-star but on any good year he might come close.
Breaking down his numbers
Minor League – BA .320 Walk Rate .087 IP .157 SBs 59/69
Major League – BA .287 Walk Rate .052 IP .120 SBs 5/8
FYI – OBP is BA+Walk Rate and SLG is IP+BA
Average is Great in minors and very good in MLB
Walk Rate was good in minors and is average in MLB
IP was average in the minors and is below average in MLB
SBs was good in minors and is adequate in MLB
Here are Rafaela’s numbers for comparison purposes
Rafaela 22 yr old in 2023 just like Grissom
Minor League – BA .280 Walk Rate .051 IP .195 SBs 115/147
Major League – BA .241 Walk Rate .040 IP .145 SBs 3/4
Rafaela played in 424 minor league games and 28 MLB games while Grissom played in 329 minor league games and 64 MLB games.
Note that Rafaela has a minor league IP of .195 and Grissom had one of .157. Rafaela isn’t a power guy but he is more of a power guy than Grissom. Rafeala is a speed guy stealing 115 bases in 424 games and Grissom stole 59 in 329 games. So Grissom is not a power hitter nor a base stealer. He is simply a high batting average guy and that’s just fine. He should do really well for his price until he’s a free agent.
Would I rather have a year of Sale than a future with Grissom, the answer is a future with Grissom BUT it cost Boston $17MM to buy Grissom which needs to be spread over his remaining controllable years which should be 6 or 7.
Great deal? Not if Sale performs like Sale and he could have been extended as the ace of the Red Sox but if Sale is broken down again in 2024 then it’s a great deal.
The single most important issue when making a trade is replacement value. If you trade a guy who is hard to replace for a guy who costs less but is easily replaced, you are losing out in the deal. Grissom is a very solid young 2B and I believe he is an upgrade from Yorke. The differential is what Boston gained because they already had Yorke. Sale on the other hand was our best pitcher if healthy and he’s now with ATL and benefiting them while we pay $17MM to watch him.
Does that sound like a good deal to you? Forget about Grissom, just consider the Sale part. Is it EVER smart to pay another team to play your player? I say no. Actually I say HECK NO!! Breslow thinks more like Bloom than me and that may be good or it could be disastrous based on Bloom.
Troll: because he smacks himself on the helmet, talks to himself the whole 9 . That doesn’t mean he’s a spoiled brat. The guy wears his emotions on his sleeve. I have been around that behavior as a wrestler and a wrestling coach . Unless it’s because a call doesn’t go your way, I take that as someone who cares and just can’t control the emotions. The key is harnessing that emotion. I am not a Cora fan at all. ( never was ) What is your suggestion on this . It isn’t little league what’s he going to do , bench Devers for smacking his helmet?
Sorry, Just saw this one. The Blue Jays struggle because Vlad Jr isn’t a leader since he was successful his whole life and has hit adversity in the majors. You don’t rally around Vlad, he’s a spoiled brat like Devers. The world has to revolve around him for it to be good. For that to happen, he must perform better. The same is true for Devers. Without Bogey his best friend and the other support of JD, Mookie, Benny, Holt and others, he’s not the pampered brat that Cora turned him into. He’s a guy who wants the world to watch him but when he’s average during his many slumps, he behaves like a two year old. He pouts, hits himself on the helmet and generally acts like the world is on his shoulders and he’s failing. That’s on Cora. He never let Devers mature properly and now his childish behavior is old to fans. The game isn’t about him and if he moved to DH some fans might grow some respect for him. He’s one of the most selfish players of his generation much like Vlad Jr.
So Toronto needs Bichette to stay healthy and do his thing. Toronto has dropped two slots behind us in spending but they have all-stars and we don’t. Springer, Gausman, Bassitt, Guerrero, Berrios, Bichette, Green, Kiermeyer and Kikuchi are their top paid guys. They have more talent than we do.
C – Jansen/Kirk vs Wong/McGuire (hands down TOR)
1B – Guerrero vs Casas (Hands down TOR)
2B – Biggio vs Grissom (Draw)
SS – Bichette vs Story (Hands down TOR)
3B – Espinal vs Devers (Hands down BOS on O and TOR on D)
LF – Varsho vs 0’Neill/Abreu (Hands down TOR)
CF – Kiermeyer vs Duran (Draw)
RF – Springer vs Rafaela ( TOR)
DH – DeJong/Kirk vs Yoshi (BOS)
SP – Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Kikuchi, Manoah vs
TBD, Bello, Giolito, Houck Crawford (Hands down TOR)
CL – Romano vs Jansen (draw)
Bullpen – (Draw)
Toronto has more talent and should finish 10 games ahead of us. Much like TB and NY and BAL. All four should win over 90 games and 81 is an aggressive total for BOS as of today.
Boston. More than a Feeling
They won’t need a closer. With their starting pitching they won’t have any leads to ptotect
The issue with Yoshida is the contract. If he made marginally less he’d probably have a ton of suitors. Which tells me if the Red Sox want to trade him, they’ll eat money on it to make it work.
Jansen seems like an easy trade. Or at least easier trade.
They will have to eat nearly half of that contract to make a trade work, without taking a bad contract back.
Beff – Why? Put Yoshida in the two hole on a good hitting team and he’ll score 100 runs, have a .300 average and .350 OBP. People will pay $18MM for a player like that. Cora doesn’t use him correctly and let him play defense which were both big mistakes. A good team would use him correctly and get $18MM of value from him.
No pay down for Yoshi and Kenley is a valuable commodity to any playoff team not having a consistent closer. Philly comes to mind but even Atlanta struggled at closer as did Texas.
Couple Kenley and Yoshi and go get a great young SP with controllable years or a SP1 depending on the depth of the team you are dealing with.
That’s all assumption. Lucky for them, the Red Sox will probably have to find out since no one will take that contract on the possibility of what he COULD do.
Beff – How is what I said assumption but what you said not assumption?: Did you even watch Yoshi play? He’s an excellent contact hitter that can’t play defense and has average power. He’s the ideal 2 hole hitter if you understand the game of baseball especially if the 1 hitter is a speedster.
There is nothing wrong with a high OBP and AVE guy who has a bit of power and DHs. Not every DH has to be a basher. The key to his success is to get him in behind a speed guy and let him do his hit the ball to all fields like Boggs. He has the potential to be a Boggs-like hitter. Maybe not as high of an average but there aren’t many that can match Bogg’s abiltiy to hit for average. He takes the pitch to the most appropriate field based on the pitch. Not many hitters can do that in this modern era of launch angle and exit velocity BS.
Yoshi has plenty of value that any astute baseball fan would recognize.
If you don’t like Yoshi that’s fine. At least try to understand why his game isn’t like others and how it can be effective given a non idiot manager.
Yoshida had an .870 OPS on July 30th, he simply tired out. That kind of production is a bargain at $18M a year.
Sox would be foolish to trade him now. if he puts up similar numbers thru July, trading him at the deadline would be easy.
bpskelly – Yoshida had an .870 OPS on July 30th, he simply tired out. That kind of production is a bargain at $18M a year.
Sox would be foolish to trade him now. if he puts up similar numbers thru July, trading him at the deadline would be easy.
Or maybe the league figured him out and that was his peak. Anyone can play the what if game. July is a little early to be tired out specially for a guy not playing a position that requires a lot of running in left or dh.
Simm – I agree with what you said BUT Cora also used Yoshi incorrectly. He’s a perfect #2 hitter on a team with a fast lead off hitter. Had he batted behind Duran when he was hot, Duran’s singles would have led to a SB and then a hit by Yoshi would have meant many first inning runs. Cora is an idiot for misusing the skills of his hitters..
I think he would need to make a lot less for him to have suitors. He’s locked into 4 years, $72 million. The dollars and probably the years would need to be reduced in a serious way for anyone to have real interest. Dude had a 1.4 WAR (only 0.6 via fangraphs) and will be almost 31 when the season starts.
Add his war numbers to go with his future outlook from a defensive side and you have a guy who just isn’t going to carry a lot of future value.
The contract predictions were for half of what Yoshida got, Bloom was bidding against himself.
Yeah that’s the issue. Think we may see the giants did the same thing as far as paying too much for lee.
Yoshida and Jansen for Stanton and Nestor and cash. Let’s go!
I could see the Cardinals making an offer for Jansen. He may not be in their price range but he’s definitely in their age range.
“Yoshida hit .289/.338/.445 over 580 plate appearances. ”
A 109 wRC+
For anyone curious
Definitely underwhelming wRC and WAR despite impressive peripherals. He’s a talented guy, I don’t think we’ve seen his best yet
@Sodo-I agree, I think yoshida will be much better/more consistent this year. Although I thought the RS overpaid for him when they originally signed him last off season. But that’s one of the reasons why I believe you’ll see a more improved/consistent Yoshida is bc of how difficult the transition to the MLB(talent-schedule-travel-etc.)and living in the USA can be for Asian players. It usually takes them a season to get fully adjusted to the grind that a full 162-game Major League Baseball season can be. Especially the traveling from city-to-city over 6-months in a completely different country and the toll/fatigue it puts on your body. That can take a while for a player to get used to. That’s why I really think Yoshida will have a much more productive FULL-season this year, not just the 1st half.
Please don’t trade Jansen. And while you’re at it, it would be nice to have Turner resigned sooner than later. They both bring a lot to the team and set a great example for the many younger players the Sox seem overcommitted to relying on.
They have to trade Jansen. They might actually get something for him.
lucky – I think just getting a team to take on Jansen’s $16M salary would be a huge benefit. They need a solid lefty reliever, then their bullpen would be solid. Houck or Martin closing.
Signing a player then immediately looking to trade him? Unless he is requesting it, this is a bad look. Especially if they want to be in on Roki.
Freedom – Unfortunately John Henry doesn’t care about bad looks. He fired Cherington less than two years after winning a championship, he fired Dombrowski less than a year after winning a championship, and he allowed franchise players Xander and Mookie to be rudely pushed out of town.
But Henry learned a little about the impact of those poor decisions, when he received all the rejections for Bloom’s job.
Freedom – You think like that but that’s not how the world actually works in baseball. A team does what they need to do to improve. If a bad GM makes errors and the next GM fixes them nobody is going to extrapolate the situation into a ban on a specific country of players in the future.
If Boston ever gets good again, they will appeal to all players. They aren’t good right now so they don’t appeal to players from Japan or the US.
I think just getting a team to take on Jansen’s $16M salary would be a huge benefit. They need a solid lefty reliever, then their bullpen would be solid. Houck or Martin closing.
What would it cost Texas in prospects to get Jansen and half his salary? Hoe about 12 MM in salary?
You had me curious so I plugged Jansen and some cash into Baseball Trade Values. They value Jansen and $8 million (half his salary) in the range of Aaron Zavala, or if you want Jansen and $12 million they’d value it at about Cameron Cauley. It’s not a perfect gauge of value, but I feel like it’s a pretty good range.
I doubt the Red Sox would move Jansen unless they got most of his salary off the books or else they’d probably just keep him, but you’d probably be looking at giving up a 40-45 FV prospect and taking on a few million to get Jansen for a year.
That site has been way off consensus on several trades, but Cauley would make sense for sure. Texas could do ehat Atl did with Sale, offering him a 2 year deal for 22 MM and asking for judt 4 or 6 MM in cash this year. However, Neris. Maton, or Robertson would probably cost just that.
Not a fan of BTV for deals involving prospects, they’re too speculative in nature and there’s rarely consensus and guaranteed outcomes to use ot balance the ‘trade’…
Now, if you’ve got some guys with at LEAST 2 full seasons of mlb-starts, not just sitting as a bench player at that, to give us a baseline on abilities at the pro level, then I think it’s a more fair tool, even if still somewhat flawed.
GA – I think all those websites are for the birds. It’s a bunch of people guessing just like you or I do. No better no worse just different.
Trading Jansen has to be to a team that needs him. I think Philly could use him and DD is the type of GM who could see value in him closing for them. If the money is more than Alvarado then send back Alvarado to us and send us a prospect to balance the trade. I love their 3B prospect Miller!!. He would be a perfect fit.
Also, Atlanta has shaky relief so they might need a guy like Jansen if they consider Iglesias and Minter as not enough. There aren’t too many places for a guy with Jansen’s price and age. It’s got to be a contender with money. LAD should be out of money by now, ATL, PHI, NYM (no need), SF (No need), ARI (No need), BAL (?), TOR (no need), NYY (no need), TB (no need), CLE (no need), TEX (upgrade to LeClerc? Maybe) Seattle (no need)
Yeah I don’t love it for the people who think every trade has to be perfectly equal, but especially for smaller scale trades like this I think it’s a decent ballpark guess. In this case I agree that a mid tier prospect and some cash would be enough.
But does Atlanta really have a shaky bullpen? They let a lot of players walk or get traded and spent the first month of the off-season signing bullpen type players. I would actually say on paper the bullpen is strong if the players they signed and traded for stay injury free. Yes Iglesias and Minter may have some blown saves, but for the most part they are effective. We are talking about a 100 win team that added to their bullpen and cut some others who were less effective. Bullpen are volatile sometimes so it will be hard to say without seeing the games played out.
Not much like Cole Winn and Josh smith
I wouldn’t mind bringing Jansen back but obviously not as a closer.
He could go back to catching for Kershaw
The Dodgers will trade you Manuel Margot straight up for Yoshida.
If I’m the Sox I’d say yes to that all day long.
I was kind of joking, but I could see the Dodgers being interested in Yoshida. He is a contact hitter and wouldn’t need to be the power guy in their lineup.
Can’t you guys see no one has a clue what the Red Sox are doing this offseason so they are just shooting blanks for these stories.. any move that they have made there was no “buzz” before the move was made. As a life long Sox fan this is the most tight lipped front office I’ve ever seen. Craig is listening on “everyone” as EVERY GM or PBO is lol settle down he’s doing his job and if you ask me he’s doing a very good job the pitching staff will look a ton different come April 1st and we will have an ace one we can depend on to take the ball every 5th days!
Traded away Verdugo then traded for ONeill.
Signed Giolito then traded away Sale.
Feels like rearranging chairs on the Titanic.
Well, I would say it’s apt to compare Bloom having taken an amazing team the likes of which hadn’t really been seen in boston (like the new and most luxurious titanic was) in the holdover WS-winning team that won so many games in ’18, and, through a mix of negligence and ineptitude similarly rammed it into an iceberg destroying it by self inflicted and avoidable wounds, sure. Sounds good enough.
But, it’s less rearranging chairs than trying to salvage and save as much as you can in the worst situation.
You gotta pick a course and go with it. Either try to compete or sell sell sell. ONeill makes sense because he can very possibly bring you more at the deadline than you gave up to get him. But Giolito? That dude is a mess and if he actually figures it out he’s gonna leave after 2024. And if he doesn’t you are stuck with him. Yuck.
In other threads I’ve kinda outlines the course I see Breslow charting, and, to me it’s been consistent.
I like the giolito signing. Outside his CY season Porcello was a bulk innings guy on an even more expensive deal 5 years ago. But Porcello was almost as much a positive impact on the teams in his non-cy seasons.
Giolito has the floor of Porcello, and the ceiling of an Ace. Either way he’s making a positive impact, barring an injury, if he repeats the last few years.
And if he rebounds and wants to leave, you get to QO him and grab a comp pick.
I like the Porcello comp but Giolito is no ace. I think his upside is number 2 at this point. Which would have made sense with Sale and his ace upside but they traded Sale.
GASox – As Mr. Clemens would say, I think you’re misremembering about Porcello ;O)
Cherington gave Porcello that ridiculous 4-year $82.5M extension after coming off a season in which he pitched 205 innings with a 3.43 ERA … while playing for the Tigers in extremely pitcher-friendly Comerica. And at the time Porcello was trending in the right direction, as it was the 4th straight year his ERA drastically improved.
That contract was a BIG reason why Cherington got fired.
But my point is the Giolito situation is totally opposite that of Porcello’s, as Gelato is coming off two horrendous seasons. At least Ben had SOME justification for the big contract extension.
Joel – The next month will provide all the answers we are seeking.
I really liked what the Red Sox were doing until they traded Sale. ONeill is my boy I am a Cardinal fan and he’s my favorite player. With guys like Sale and ONeill you got a shot. But trading Sale was no good. We will see what happens next. I enjoy the offseason more than the actual games lol.
Joel – to a degree I enjoy it all. I wasn’t enjoying much about Boston since August 2019, but, now I see promise and light appearing at the end of the tunnel again.
The thing about this offseason, and where I diverged from some of our other diehards on this site, is that I identified this as a bridge year from the moment Breslow was hired.
The moves aren’t about trying to go all-in on a deeply flawed roster and hope for a wild card in ’24. The moves are about lining up 2025 and beyond as a desirable and, hopefully, more sustainable future.
Or, at least, that’s what I expected and try to view things through the lens of. Doesn’t mean this team can’t wind up being able to contend this year, lighting/bottle and all that. Just that it isn’t the be-all end-all goal for this offseason that must happen and be all-in on ’24.
I also suspect Breslow was told to stay under the CBT this year, barring a deadline position where adding salary gives them a postseason push.
Sale hasn’t hardly pitched. At least with gio he will take the mound. Now I don’t like the gio deal because there is almost no upside for the Sox in that deal. At the same time gio may have more value next year then sale does just because he will give them innings that sale hasn’t been able to.
If you read the article it says the Sox are trying to get a top of the rotation type arm. If they do that then gio can slot behind them. So I guess we shall see what they do. Maybe a lot of nothing and perhaps they will just hope gio pitches well and they can dump him for something at the deadline.
Simm – We need a #1 and #2 and we have Bello, Houck, Crawford, Pivetta and Whitlock to fill the #3 to #5 slots in the rotation. Giolito needs to go completely back to his skils over 3 years ago or he is a #3 to #5 SP which we already have 5.
Sale, without Cora, could be the ace of the Atlanta staff. Sure he might get hurt but he never did miss much time before Cora. Farrell and Ventrura both had great success with him. Atlanta has great pitching coaches so I won’t be shocked if Sale out pitches Strider and Fried. I also won’t be shocked if he gets hurt. But giving up $17MM to move his $8.6MM was a huge mistake. With luck Sale could have been one of the two top starters we need. Now he can’t be.
To the Padres? Seems like a great fit.
Padres balling on a budget. They won’t want that contract.
If the Sox take on Cron it might be a fit
Would be tough going from Cronenworth at 7/80m to Yoshida at 4/74.4m. Especially if you think they’re comparable bats since one can play plus D at an up the middle position and the other, more expensive player offers no defensive value.
Swapping Suarez for Yoshida or sending a fringe return and getting him with 25-30m included would be routes I would prefer. As I think you’re going to lose any trade involving Croney this offseason.
I would like to see Cronenworth get some LF reps to fully embrace the swiss army knife role. I bet he’d handle the position well. Chris Taylor type player that strikes out a lot less.
Suarez is a tough sell, it’s a lot of years on an aging RP arm that was caught cheating.
He had a few fluff appearances against the As upon his return, but if you set those aside he didn’t fare as well without the sticky.
Yoshida has plenty of warts of his own defensively, but, of the two, I’d think one has more promise and potential than the other, no?
Both are tough sells when looking at their salaries and dollars owed versus the production provided in 2023.
Honestly I could see the Padres thinking keeping Suarez and going with a prospect like Graham Pauley in LF and keeping 40m off the books is more prudent than making that swap.
What does Yoshida get as a FA today? 2/30m-3/40m seems like a best case scenario as a solid bat with no D in his 30’s. Suarez sure as heck wouldn’t get his deal (owed 4/36m) but Emilio Pagan money is probably the contract equivalent to that Yoshida estimate. Based on those numbers Yoshida is overpaid by 34-44m and Suarez is overpaid by 20m…
Not the easiest sell from SD’s POV.
Papi – I don’t think it’s an easy sell for either side.
For all the suggestions that the teams ought to match up, I’m not sure they really do – at least not without thinking outside the box. Maybe, *maybe* you could find a three-way trade of contract swaps that helps all concerned, but, I’m not sure who you would rope in
Problem is, the players each side really would like to move dont fit well on the ither side of the ledger.
From the SD side, really, they need a better defender than just a bat-only OFer.
For BOS, they have plenty of more talented relievers, and a guy like Suarez is really a DFA candidate considering the much cheaper Llovera was just designated to make room, and, he had stronger potential/peripherals than Suarez -at least in my thoughts. You could say the same for other guys each side would want to move.
Breslow is looking for a mix of youth movement and short term deals for vets with upside. Premier is looking for upgrades that help shed some salary. Both guys would like to free up payroll to re-allocate elsewhere.
Even throwing out names like Kim, or the young OF pieces in BOS, don’t work great because BOS wants extended control on pieces they bring in.
I think in this case it’s a situation where the existing pieces have more value to their current teams than the return would.
padre – No offense but have you looked at the young Boston outfielders who cost less than $1MM and are free agents in 2028 and 2030? Croneworth doesn’t fill a need. It’s that simple. Jansen and Yoshida are Breslow’s best bargaining chips so they either need to bring back a SP1 or they need to be cleared from the payroll so we can buy a SP1.
Croneworth has no value in Boston. He’s a 30 year old with declining value and no set position. He’s a Bloom type add. There is no need. He plays lots of positions and he’s not expensive. Case closed. There is absolutely no reason to think about Croneworh now that we have Grissom.
I see this as a good possibility too
No the padres don’t seem like a great fit. He is getting 18m a year. He was worth .06 fwar, padres can get that for a lot less.
It’s not worth trading even Suarez or cronenworth to eat that contract. Padres would be better off just signing a guy like Rosario.
Yoshida for Jose Abreu.
Sounds interesting. Red Sox dont need a 1b but I suppose Abreu could DH.
Joel P – Would Abreu be the DH instead of Dever or instead of Yoshida or instead of O’Neill?
What ever happened to seeking out things we need?
SP1, SP2, 3B, Lefty relievers
If it’s not on that list it can’t be a priority. We are adequate to good at C, 1B, 2B, SS, LF, CF, RF and Devers at DH.
SP3, SP4, SP5 are all good
Long relief, stress inning guy, closer and righty set up is all good
The bench can be upgraded AFTER we get the four things we need.
Yoshida SD/KC/MIN
Jansen CHC/BAL
Yoshida feels like a KC type player to me
The Cubs can’t feel good about Alzolay. Good pitcher but not a closer. Jansen fits well there
Are Japanese players allowed to play in the Midwest?? With all those landlocked states, and no coastline for hundreds of miles, they may feel a bit claustrophobic. (I know that happens to me when I venture from Western Washington into the vast interior of our country.) If I’m not within two hours driving distance to salt water, it’s Xanax time baby.
Ignorant – You get post of the day!!! Not being from a coast I find it incredible that anyone would have those issues. I travel to the coasts on work for many, many years and for me all cities visited were nothing more than cities in different places. I cared nothing about having a Lake like Lake Michigan (grew up in Chicago) near me for sanity. I love visiting the Cape but never feel a NEED for salt water.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It just shows how growing up different places can impact individuals but I think it’s safe to say not everyone thinks like me or you when it comes to geography.
Could Abreu be the DH instead of Dever or instead of Yoshida or instead of O’Neill?
What ever happened to seeking out things we need?
SP1, SP2, 3B, Lefty relievers
If it’s not on that list it can’t be a priority. We are adequate to good at C, 1B, 2B, SS, LF, CF, RF and Devers at DH.
SP3, SP4, SP5 are all good
Long relief, stress inning guy, closer and righty set up is all good
The bench can be upgraded AFTER we get the four things we need.
Might have a lot more to do with being able to get a good home-country meal and talking to people in your native language. For Japanese players this is going to be mostly on the West Coast, where you’re going to find the largest concentrations of expats from Japan, as a natural fact of Pacific Rim geography. It’s also a few hours closer to Japan.
BlueSkies – I’m sure you must be aware of the fact that EVERY big city like Chicago, Dallas, Houston that is not on a coast has people of all nationalities. The percentage may not be as great but it’s still enough to become part of a community or eat your favorite cuisine.
Thinking cities are that much different suggests to me that you haven’t traveled much. I live in a suburb 50 miles North of Dallas and there are many choices for different cuisines. There are sub communities from different parts of the world and there are varying cultural spots. The closer in to Dallas you go the diversity becomes even greater.
I’m sorry but I think it’s naive to think Japanese people could only be comfortable in a big city on the coast. FYI NY is farther from Japan than Chicago, Dallas or Houston.
Number of players from Asia whose first MLB team was:
Dodgers: Japan (7), Korea (2)
Giants: Japan (3), Korea (2)
Padres: Japan (2), Korea (1)
Mariners: Japan (6), Korea (3)
TOTAL: 26
Astros: Japan (0), Korea (0)
Rangers: Japan (4), Korea (1)
Cubs: Japan (4), Korea (3)
White Sox: Japan (2), Korea (0)
TOTAL: 14
But there’s probably nothing to it, nothing at all.
I’ve traveled to almost every state in the nation. I’ve also visited around 20 countries, including Japan and Korea. So nice try there, and thanks for the geography lesson!
Although I never watched him I had him on my fantasy squad and it really seemed like he just lost steam down the stretch. He was pretty consistent up until then. But that could also be the league getting a scouting report on him and learning how to pitch to him.
NPB players can have difficulty adjusting to the longer MLB schedule that also contains far far more travel in their first seasons, and the conditioning process takes time to catch up.
Yanks – You are 100% correct about him running out of steam. The guy is listed as 5’8″ 175 lbs which means he’s probably 5’6″ and he went from playing exclusively in one time zone to playing in four. Learning how to play LF in Fenway is also one of the most challenging things he had to do.
But the guy is an amazing contact hitter. This century there’s only one other MLB player to reach base at least 85 times while striking out 25 times or less in their first 50 games, that would be Ichiro. If he can hit like Ichiro but with a bit more power, he’s well worth the $18M a year. He’s proven he can hit fastballs, halfway through last season he was batting .406 against 4-seamers.
And he knows how to make adjustments, lowering his hands and opening up his stance halfway through the season.
If he can hit like Ichiro…
It took Ichiro 13 seasons in MLB (age 39 season) before he had a year with as few hits as Yoshida just had.
Maybe lower the bar considering your comparing him to an all time great hitter. His 4367 hits between Japan and MLB are over a 100 more than Pete Rose accumulated so he truly is the hit king. Of course Ichiro wasn’t just a bat with 10 gold gloves and over 500 SB’s in MLB.
When Ichiro was in his prime he was striking out 8% of the time. 15% is great, but it ain’t 8.
Appreciate the Ichiro love !
Padre – Hits? That’s what you value the most?
Well besides the fact Ichiro was primarily a leadoff hitter who got approximately 100 more AB’s a season, he didn’t hit for power as much as Yoshida has. Look at their career OPS, guess whose is higher.
Ignorant – I love Ichiro too! Great 4 tool player and classy guy.
@Fever did you ever hear about the big team-morale-rallying speeches Ichiro would give in the clubhouse right before the All-Star Game each year? These speeches became a tradition and the players absolutely loved them because he stood on a table and actually spoke English (which he rarely would) and used very funny and exaggerated expressions and got very animated. It would get the entire AL squad all fired up. I wish there was a recording of one of them haha…
Fever – The comparison was on par with saying If Roman Anthony hits like Manny Ramirez while playing plus defense he’ll be well worth the draft pick and 2m signing bonus.
Yoshida had a 17 HR/162 game pace. So pretty average big league power. His ISO ranked 199 out of 362 out of MLB hitters with 200 or more PA’s. So I agree that if Yoshida hits like Ichiro with more power he’ll be worth 18m but that is virtually impossible for Yoshida to accomplish which is why I found the comment so far out there.
There is probably at least a 20% chance Yoshida’s career WAR in MLB doesn’t match Ichiro’s Rookie year WAR alone. Granted it was a historical rookie year (ROY & MVP).
padre – I appreciate you sticking up for Ichiro, but there’s nothing to defend. I have never compared Yoshida and Ichiro as all-around players. Ichiro had elite speed and was an elite defender with a cannon for an arm, so of course his WAR would be higher than the defensively challenged Yoshida.
All I’m saying is each player has similar batting styles and Yoshida has the potential to have a batting average comparable to some of Ichiro’s better years. How can you not acknowledge the similarities? They are two slashing lefthanded hitters who have the same tendency to begin moving toward first base while still in the process of swinging.
You think I’m pulling the comparison out of my ass? Here’s just one example where others have made the same logical comparison:
nesn.com/2022/12/red-soxs-masataka-yoshida-draws-s…
“(Yoshida could be) the best pure hitter since Ichiro (Suzuki),” Red Sox director of pro scouting Gus Quattlebaum said, according to Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic.
Yoshida is the first Japanese player since Ichiro to enter the United States coming off a season in which he struck out less than 10% of the time and slugged over .500 in Japan.
Yoshida is coming off the highest walk-to-strikeout ratio of all major Nippon signings this century at nearly 2-to-1, double that of Cubs’ signee Seiya Suzuki and far better than the plate discipline Shohei Ohtani demonstrated before singing with the Angels.
Fever – Jen McCaffrey is a know-nothing opinionated kiss rear end reporter. She lacks integrity. Read what she writes about Cora. I’m not a member of the Athletic because she was horrible at providing facts and I wanted better more unbiased information.
The comparison between Ichiro and Yoshida is a huge insult to Ichiro. Ichiro had a huge skill set and his approach at the plate was dissimilar to Yoshida. Yoshida is more of a Boggs type hitter in that he slaps the ball based on where it’s pitched. Ichiro came running out of the box and put the ball on the ground and beat it out as a normal hit. That’s not Yoshida’s game. He’s going to have to prove he can be as consistent as Boggs if he expects to hit over .300 regularly.
I like Yoshida but Ichiro was elite and Yoshida will never be. People need to stop looking at the country as much as looking at what and how the hitter is being successful. The moron who compared the two in your link is why I have no respect for reporters who cherry pick interviews to sensationalize key components of the interview by pulling quotes out of context. McCaffrey is a butcher like Devers!!
For me, don’t trust a word she writes because her understanding of the game is weak and her need to suck up to the interviewee keeps the interview biased rather than informative. The Over the Monster group is equally as bad. The guys on Rumors may not be great but they are better than the competition.
Ignorant – No I didn’t know that, very cool though. I love hearing about what goes on behind closed doors, and sides of players that the cameras don’t capture.
TF – That was a direct quote from the Red Sox Director of Pro Scouting! Jen was just reporting what he said, you think she lied? That would be pretty ballsy to fabricate direct quotes.
I’m sure you must be aware of the fact that EVERY big city like Chicago, Dallas, Houston that is not on a coast has people of all nationalities. The percentage may not be as great but it’s still enough to become part of a community or eat your favorite cuisine.
Thinking cities are that much different suggests to me that you haven’t traveled much. I live in a suburb 50 miles North of Dallas and there are many choices for different cuisines. There are sub communities from different parts of the world and there are varying cultural spots. The closer in to Dallas you go the diversity becomes even greater.
I’m sorry but I think it’s naive to think Japanese people could only be comfortable in a big city on the coast. FYI NY is farther from Japan than Chicago, Dallas or Houston.
Jen McCaffrey is a know-nothing opinionated kiss rear end reporter. She lacks integrity. Read what she writes about Cora. I’m not a member of the Athletic because she was horrible at providing facts and I wanted better more unbiased information.
The comparison between Ichiro and Yoshida is a huge insult to Ichiro. Ichiro had a huge skill set and his approach at the plate was dissimilar to Yoshida. Yoshida is more of a Boggs type hitter in that he slaps the ball based on where it’s pitched. Ichiro came running out of the box and put the ball on the ground and beat it out as a normal hit. That’s not Yoshida’s game. He’s going to have to prove he can be as consistent as Boggs if he expects to hit over .300 regularly.
I like Yoshida but Ichiro was elite and Yoshida will never be. People need to stop looking at the country as much as looking at what and how the hitter is being successful. The moron who compared the two in your link is why I have no respect for reporters who cherry pick interviews to sensationalize key components of the interview by pulling quotes out of context. McCaffrey is a butcher like Devers!!
For me, don’t trust a word she writes because her understanding of the game is weak and her need to suck up to the interviewee keeps the interview biased rather than informative. The Over the Monster group is equally as bad. The guys on Rumors may not be great but they are better than the competition.
This will be how Arte replaces Ohtani ha ha.
It’s going to be even uglier at the Sox “winter weekend” this year than it was last year! Henry has no clue how disappointed Sox fans are this year.
If that coward Henry shows up I’ll be amazed. He looked senile and horribly flustered last year. Dumb guy said, and I quote “players are expensive” which Sam Kennedy attempted to clean up.
Clearing room for Bellinger
Let’s hope not.
I’m fine with trading Jansen if Whitlock or Houck is going to close. I think it would be a mistake to trade Yoshida. Defensive shortcomings not withstanding he carried the offense for stretches last season and looked good in the 2 hole in the lineup
Yoshida to the jays lol
Keep watchin planes en route to toronto jays fans..one of these days you will get your guy lol
The last time it landed we got IKF
I think its bad form to trade yoshida so soon as well but at the end of the day hes got a 90 million dollar contract had he not wanted to be traded he should have negotiated a no trade clause…its pretty common these days, hes grown and should know that
Just seems to me since the Fenway Sports Group bought into NASCAR and the NHL they forgot all about the team at Fenway.May have to be open to finding a new team to root for. Ownership seems to have said well we had 4 championship over the last 20 years that should hold the fans off for another 86 years or so. Let’s spend all our money elsewhere.
The small market Red Sox
Trying to shed the money you just spent last off-season? Why did you spend it then? It works out ok if you get a prospect I guess. If all things were even, why would people sign with you if you’ll possibly just trade them in a year?
Rishi – Kinda like a year ago when they shed the salaries of Eovaldi, Wacha, Strahm and JD by letting them all walk. That worked out wonderfully now did it.
Breslow is attempting to clear out any evidence of his uninformed predecessor – a wise idea to paint over that mess. Yoshida needs to go. Signing Soler would be a step in the right direction.
Boston has a long and rich history of signing Japanese players and were the team to do it earliest and the most often. The notion that they would trade him for any other reason than to help improve the overall team would be false. It could even backfire as Yoshida is clearly a top MLB hitter and in the 2nd year and beyond likely to increase in all categories for the upcoming season and beyond. Certainly for the next 4 years! With out rebuild and such a youthful team and farm flush with OF and players who need the DH Spot to rove it just makes sense. Also for a RH Power bat to balance the squad. Yoshida and any future Japanese players need to understand this is American Baseball, it’s about a business, and improving your team and not a slight or dishonorable at all in this country. Boston will not have any issues if the conversation stays about the game and business of it.
baseballguru – You can’t spend $47MM a year on DHs so if Yoshi doesn’t go Devers must. Nobody in their right mind would take on Devers’ contract so the albatross forces Yoshi off the roster.
It’s painful to watch but Devers has done so much damage defensively over the years and now he’s damaging the team even more from a financial perspective. He needs to put up 145 or higher OPS+ to justify $30MM a year. How many of the next 10 years would you expect him to provide 145 or higher OPS+ numbers. I set the over/under at 4 and I would be shocked if he goes over. FYI… his highest OPS+ to date is 141 in 2022. That’s how bad the next 10 years will be with him DHing. If he plays the field, he hurts the team even more. Bloom screwed Boston for a decade with the Devers deal and soured people on long deals. Mookie was a far superior choice for a 10 year contract!!!
I pray you are thoroughly shocked since devers isnt going anywhere
TF..Also. Can we please stop bringing up mookie..we ALL know letting him go was a mistake but man.its like salt in the wound now…move on to something new.if you are going to continue ..maybe we should dig up buckey dents home run and buckners error..really drive it home lol
Sorry he’s the carbon copy!!! I was right long before he was but all that rightness created a great bond!!!
Trolls will be Trolls. Every site has them and like cockroaches they never seem to die or go away.
Full Throttle Teardown
The issue with Yoshida is there’s a not insignificant number of talent evaluators who believe he’s closer to what he showed the last third of 2023: .233/.255/.337.
He won’t be easy to move.
Lord – Those same evaluators insisted Yoshida wouldn’t be able to handle MLB fastballs. Wow were they wrong about that. It’s the soft stuff he struggled with early on.
Fpg seems to think we should keep him…and he is always right
FPGIAR – Or should I rename you FEVER STALKER? hahaha
Yoshida is liked by Fever and rightfully so. He has talent but he has an idiot manager who doesn’t know how to use him. He is also a redundant talent to the biggest waste on the team DEVERS. Since Devers can’t be traded to a wolf even if we put a lamb chop around his neck we need to move him to DH and trade Yoshi. It was a redundant move by Bloom who was known for doing redundant moves when needs were greatest.
Yoshi has a lot to offer to a team with a good lead off hitter.
FPGIAR – Sorry he’s the carbon copy!!! I was right long before he was but all that rightness created a great bond!!!
Trolls will be Trolls. Every site has them and like cockroaches they never seem to die or go away.
Pool – I have supported Yoshida since he first signed, and my position has never changed. Because I’m so unbiased I acknowledge flaws of players I support, and that sometimes somehow makes a few people think I no longer support said player. Silly, isn’t it?
And not that I will continue to respond to your curiously newfound support of the “always right” sarcasm, but just a few days ago I acknowledged being wrong about something.
However that doesn’t matter to those who want to silence me, now does it?
TF – Right you are! I think we set a great example of how two people can have different opinions at times, but still respect each other.
And you always put in the time and effort to support your views, which I appreciate!
“It’s unlikely he’d have landed a $72MM deal covering his age 30-33 campaigns if he were a free agent this winter”
FWIW
BTV has Yoshida producing $78 million in value the next 4 years.
Bat Duran first and Yoshida second, and it will work well. If it doesn’t, trade Yoshida, make Devers your DH and acquire a 3B man, by trade or drafting/development.
Not sure what the mind set is for weeks now. They are below cap. They have room to maneuver and make signings to stay at, below, or slightly above the cap. You would think a smart team would go after what they need for their massive needs then worry about shedding payroll after the moves. This has a terrible look to it, and even if they shed payroll, there are no guarantees their targets would even sign, or other teams would make the trades. Bad look, bad thought process. Sign a target starting pitcher, trade for another as those are your big needs. Worry about the cap after you at least accomplish solving issues.
Hi William. I think Breslow is not willing to make deals that do not make sense. No one is biting on Boras’ current asking prices for Montgomery and Snell. Teams are waiting them out. Teams probably also have ridiculous asking prices for trades for pitchers. They may be asking for the Red Sox best prospects and Breslow won’t trade them. It looks like the pitching market is ridiculous and Breslow isn’t willing to make ridiculous deals so far which I like.
I never advocate for making bad deals, and I think there is merit to what you’re saying. My issue is have 30 million cap space, urgent needs and occupying time trying to shed payroll to create space for “potential” moves you may never make. If money is the issue, you plug your desperate needs and shed the payroll after the work is done. Imagine they trade Jansen, and Yoshida only to miss out on their intended targets and settle for lesser and cheaper players. What a terrible when you could have simply went after you wants and worried about removing pieces after the accommodate them.
And if you spend a bunch of money, and have too many guys to play in the same position, but are now.where you NEED to sell, then any trades you make are from a position of weakness.
I think Breslow is in a tough spot now. The asking price for free agent pitchers is very high and the asking price in trades is very high. On top of that, I don’t think there is a huge excess of valuable propsects in the Red Sox farm system to trade.
All – Granted the DD farm system guys have graduated leaving the Bloom farm guys the only ones left so the farm is a bit depleted at the moment. Hopefully, a few of Bloom’s picks will blossom other than Anthony.
Trading is easier right now than acquiring free agents. If you trade and can extend the guy you want it should be at a cheaper cost to value ratio than a free agent pitcher. Monty is likely going to sign with Texas and Snell will go to a team very willing to over pay for everything like the Yankees or maybe the Cubs..
Breslow needs to concentrate on guys like Burnes and Woodard. or even Steele in CHC. Mayer and all of Blooms picks can go except Anthony and Steele is young and still controllable so the Cubs need a CF so trading Duran and Jansen could bring back Steele. Then the Cubs could land Snell and be a much stronger team. Steele would slot in as a SP2 that is a ARB 1 guy costing $4.1MM.
KD: Agreed. However, I need to look into Woodard and Steele more. Also, I would not trade Kyle Teel.
All – Teel for me only goes if the SP1 is elite but I would offer lots before him.
Steele is very interesting. A lefty to replace Sale and step into the SP2 spot would help a lot. Woodard’s issue is his surgeries. He’s had great stuff but I’m not sure he can stay healthy but he’s better than most FA SPs but he’ll miss time in 2024. He’s better than Giolito but just as risky. except it’s his durability that is risky not his stuff like Giolito.
William – It depends on whether or not you view this as yet another “bridge year”. If it is, there’s no such thing as an urgent need. They simply plug the holes by waiting until the least expensive free agents are remaining.
Personally I believe it’s a GFIN year, which means they need a top SP and a very good RH OF’er and a very good LHR. I’m a very patient man, I know we will find out the answers within the next 6 weeks and I don’t mind waiting.
BTW – Where do you get $30M cap space? All my sources have $52M cap space.
TF – I believe Teel is the most untouchable prospect, because catcher is the weakest position on the Red Sox depth chart and it’s always been a high demand position on the free agent and trade market.
A two-way catcher is extremely rare, they have to hold onto him.
GASox – I think that’s where the Sox will be next year with their middle infield. Grissom, Story, Yorke, Mayer …. two of them will hafta go.
Suit – Are you saying you think the market for free agent pitchers will actually go down next year? I doubt that, especially with there being so many that were available this year.
As for trades, I don’t see it. The fact that the Rays had to include Margot and $4M cash with Glasnow to get the two prospects tells me the asking price for starting pitchers is not that high.
I mean really, who has ever gotten money FROM the Rays in trades?
Fever: Agreed that good free agent pitching will still be expensive next off-season. I think the price for pitchers in trades depends on the pitcher being traded. I think young, good, controllable pitching (like the Red Sox probably want) will continue to be expensive. The price for a pitcher being traded in a salary dump (like Glasnow) will probably be more reasonable. That’s my guess.
Fever, the only nice thing about the grissom/story/yorke/mayer situation is I’m not sure they’d need to part with anyone.
Even IF they all are ready, and, force their way onto the 26 man roster, then you can bump casas to DH, make grisson a utility IF since he’s cheap enough, then play story and Mayer up the middle. Crunch solved.
It’s a much different situation when you don’t have all the guys making mlb-minimum allowing such flexibility.
Fever – Glasnow had some warts attached, much like sale, which would’ve depressed his value.
I think younger guys without injury problems, and, particularly guys controllable on affordable contracts have MUCH higher asking prices on the trade market.
Fever – Very logical thinking but what’s more rare a catcher who projects to be great and actually is or a great SP1 that you might get with Teel?
Posey was a generational talent. Rutschman looks to be. Molina was effective more as a defender than his offense which was erratic yet he’s a HOFer. What will Teel be? Will he be as good as Rutschman or simply better than Wong and Vazquez in his prime? We don’t know. But we do know how good certain pitchers are like Burnes. Burnes is elite and we need elite so if they want Teel I say sure now throw in Adames and we’ll throw in Mayer as long as both Burnes and Adames sign extensions.
Fever – Yorke and Mayer won’t be ready by 2025. If we are lucky and Mayer rebounds to being a slightly above league average SS will he be an upgrade from Story or simply much, much cheaper? Grissom should have no problem keeping Yorke in the minors. Yorke is now completely expendable and his value is fading so trade now or DFA later.
Right you are! I think we set a great example of how two people can have different opinions at times, but still respect each other.
And you always put in the time and effort to support your views, which I appreciate!
Teel for me only goes if the SP1 is elite but I would offer lots before him.
Steele is very interesting. A lefty to replace Sale and step into the SP2 spot would help a lot. Woodard’s issue is his surgeries. He’s had great stuff but I’m not sure he can stay healthy but he’s better than most FA SPs but he’ll miss time in 2024. He’s better than Giolito but just as risky. except it’s his durability that is risky not his stuff like Giolito.
Go get Yoshida Dombrowski , he’s a big fan of Harper
Jansen is a perfect fit for the Mets. Bridge to Diaz – occasional closer. One year and gone. Just costs money basically
Mets could use a DH too.
So Yoshida isn’t off the table there, either.
They can use him in the OF occasionally,
Especially if Marte isn’t ready early in season.
Maybe The Sox get a 3B prospect in Vientos,
as part of the deal ?
theknuckler – Like your thinking BUT we need a SP1 or SP2 so if we trade Yoshi and Kenley our two big chips and don’t get a pitcher back we are in deep trouble. Senga is their #1 and I’m not a big fan of his and he can opt out after 2025. Good idea but the Mets are like us. They are hurting for top of the rotatoin pitching. Severino and Quintana are shaky in number of starts per year. We need a rock solid SP1 or SP2. Mets don’t have one. Can Senga throw 175 to 200 Innings? That’s what we need.
@Trollfree – Right on. I hear ya.
We’re all in a bad place. lol
I just recently saw posts on Mets boards, that they were interested in Jansen, which didn’t make a whole lotta sense to me.
But if The Mets are helping Boston shed payroll, then it makes more sense.
In my mind, Boston turns around and reallocates the money saved into a Montgomery signing.
theknuckler – If they want to just provide a prospect for Kenley that would be great. A true salary dump.plus a prospect. I doubt they would give us one of their two 3B but they have a pitcher named Vasil who has nice upside. That would be great.
Like you said, putting all payroll shed into two SPs would be smart for the future. We have good SP3=SP5 guys we desperately need a SP1 and SP1.
Not that there was much substance to it, but, I did read an article floating Jansen to TEX for the likes of someone like Leiter.
It would be a fit on paper. And it goes to show the problem with trading for prospects – Leiter was a #17/100 before 2022, #70-something/100 before 2023, and now sits outside the top-100.
GA – That would be a great deal for Boston if the new pitching coaches can fix him. Texas is working hard on him and think they found the problem but their confidence wasn’t great it was just good.
I’d rather have Brock Porter. He’s 20. Had an unbelievable HS and Select Ball career and is ranked higher than Leiter.
Texas also has Walcott a 6’4″ shortstop who is a big time athletic power batter that could also play 3B!!! At 18, he projects to be better than Mayer at 21.
Clearly Texas is the best place for Kenley. What a huge upgrade at Manager he’d get if he got traded to Texas! Losing his salary and adding a Ranger prospect is a win-win.
Nothing major has happened so far. The Sox still need 2 SP’s. Monty AND a 2d SP probably a trade as they let all of the good 2d tier guys like Wacha & Lugo go.
They need to play the young good D OFers to see what they have and stay away from Soler or Hernandez both bad “D” big “K”guys. If they have to have a vet OF sign Duval. cheaper and just as much upside.
jmi1950 = Absolutlely. They have a potential outfield that costs less than $3MM a year in total and is controllable 5 to 7 years. If they develop into a modern day Benny, JBJ and Betts that would fix the broken roster. The money for pitching would allow Breslow to go big on pitching and a permanent 3B to replace the new DH Devers.
With limited money and a need for TWO SPs, outfielders should not be considered at this point. We have a great set of 4 young outfielders.
I’m ok with trading Yoshida ONLY because there’s no room for 2 DH’s in the roster.
Mafia – You mean like when Manny and Ortiz were on the same roster?
Or when Schwarber and JD were on the same roster?
Or when Hanley and Ortiz were on the same roster?
Or when Gomes and Ortiz were on the same roster?
Sox have done quite well with poor defense in LF … and besides, we all know Devers won’t be DH’ng this year.
Fever, at least thus far one difference is that Yoshida isn’t hammering the ball the way some of those other guys did.
Poor defense can be OK when you swing a monster stick. Yoshida, if he can get his stamina up and handle the travel/longer season better is still probably an OK average, sub-par power guy compared to some of the others you mention.
Fever – Seriously? You compared Yoshi to Manny? On what planet?
Schwarber and JD was a massive mistake.
Hanley and Ortiz was a massive mistake.
Gomes started 77 games in 2013 as a bad LF. Boston didn’t win because of Gomes, they won despite his lack of skills. His positive influence in the clubhouse mattered. Are you suggesting Ysohi is going to be a Gomes in the clubhouse guy?
Your last sentence is a travesty but probably true which leaves the team at .500 and if they are .500 who cares if Yoshi butchers balls in LF because the team isn’t trying to make the playoffs.
Yoshi is redundant to Devers and he’s blocking excellent young outfielders from gaining experience. Dump Devers and keep Yoshi works for me but nobody is dumb enough to take Devers contract. Not even a crap GM like Cashman would take Devers’ contract.
So pick one – Yoshi or Devers. Bad left fielders hurt the team less than bad 3Bs so if you want Devers to block guys like Anthony by playing LF it’s a stronger argument than the one you just made.
Devers fielding percentage would be higher and 1/2 to 1/3 as many balls would be hit to Devers in LF. So to keep Yoshi you put him at DH and Devers in LF to hurt the team less then you go out and get a great fielding 3B and it off sets the bad defense by Devers in LF. It’s a convoluted suggestion but it give the team a better chance of winning in 2024.
Chapman, Story, Grissom, Casas and Yoshi at DH with Devers, Duran and Rafaela in the outfield. That team could be more than a .500 team with a new SP1 and SP2.
O’Neill?
Like your thinking BUT we need a SP1 or SP2 so if we trade Yoshi and Kenley our two big chips and don’t get a pitcher back we are in deep trouble. Senga is their #1 and I’m not a big fan of his and he can opt out after 2025. Good idea but the Mets are like us. They are hurting for top of the rotatoin pitching. Severino and Quintana are shaky in number of starts per year. We need a rock solid SP1 or SP2. Mets don’t have one. Can Senga throw 175 to 200 Innings? That’s what we need.
While Yoshida certainly isn’t untouchable, I think it would be a mistake to trade him for anything other than a top of the rotation starter. I think he’s going to be one of the best hitters in baseball for the next several years, and he can’t be any worse than Manny Ramirez was in Fenway’s notoriously easy left field.
bcjd – I think Yoshi is a fine hitter but he lacks power, speed and makes up for it with a high average and excellent OBP. He must play DH.
It’s time to do a monster deal with Cleveland.
Cleveland gives Boston – Ramirez and Bieber and Bo Naylor
Boston gives Cleveland – Kenley, Yoshi, Mayer, Yorke, Teel Abreu and B jordan.
That’s $16MM for Kenley and $18MM of Yoshi and under $5MM for the rest so roughly $38MM including 5 top prospects.
Boston gets Ramirez to play 3B moving Devers to DH ($20.14MM), Bieber ($13.125MM) to see if the new coaching staff can fix him, and Bo Naylor a true full time catcher with a big bat. Yes, Teel may end up being better than Naylor but Naylor is MLB ready and has significant pop.
Bieber is less risky than Giolito because if he doesn’t perform we don’t extend him and it’s a $13MM experiment but we have Ramirez one of the finest players in baseball and Devers at DH.. That means we have two all-stars not ONE and Bieber could return to being an all-star if Breslow and the coaching staff can return him to form. A true #1 and the best 3B in baseball.
Crickets
What if we took a low risk flyer on Carlos Carrasco? No, it won’t solve our problem but he might be somewhat productive and may help the pitching side of things if he comes back to form.