It’s been an active two weeks for the Mariners, who’ve recently signed Mitch Garver to a two-year deal and shipped out Robbie Ray and Jose Caballero in trades that brought Mitch Haniger, Anthony DeSclafani and Luke Raley back to Seattle. President of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto said this weekend that while his team feels more complete now than at any point this offseason, he’s still open to subsequent additions (link via Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times).
More specifically, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports that the Mariners are still hoping to acquire an infielder to make the club less reliant on the uncertain tandem of Luis Urias and Josh Rojas, who are currently projected to start at third base and second base, respectively. Seattle would also like to add a reliever, per Rosenthal, which Dipoto alluded to in his comments to Divish and others.
An infield upgrade is a sensible target for the M’s, given the volatility presented by both Urias and Rojas (and to a lesser extent, first baseman Ty France, who’s coming off a down season). From 2021-22, both Urias (.244/.340/.426, 111 wRC+) and Rojas (.266/.345/.401, 106 wRC+) were above-average performers at the plate, due in no small part to walk rates approaching 11%.
Rojas saw his walk rate drop to 7.7% in 2023, however, as he batted just .240/.303/.338 in 350 plate appearances. Urias maintained his walk rate but watched his hard-hit rate and exit velocity plummet en route to a middling .194/.337/.299 slash in 155 trips to the plate. Both players saw their strikeout rates tick up to near identical marks of 23.2% and 23.1% — slightly higher than league average but also well south of the 30%-plus rates of some names they shipped out in trades.
Both Rojas and Urias come with platoon issues of note, as well. The lefty-swinging Rojas has extremely similar rate stats against lefties and righties, with identical 93 wRC+ marks against each, but his production against lefties is contingent on a .361 average on balls in play that’s not likely to hold up. Rojas has punched out at an ugly 28.3% clip against southpaws compared to a 21% mark against righties and hit for more power when holding the platoon advantage as well (.098 ISO versus lefties, .122 versus righties). It’s the opposite for the right-handed Urias, who’s smacked southpaws at a .276/.353/.442 pace in his career but carries a .219/.326/.365 slash against right-handers.
Rojas and Urias are both capable of playing either second or third base, so there’s a potential platoon setup between the two. Alternatively, if the M’s succeed in adding a second or third baseman and prefer to go with one true starter at the other slot, both Rojas and Urias could profile as a potential utility option off the bench.
Because of the defensive flexibility the current group possesses, the Mariners could look for options at either second base or third base. Dipoto typically operates more on the trade market than on the free-agent market, though both provide myriad avenues to fill the team’s needs. Whit Merrifield stands as the top free agent at second base. The Mariners aren’t going to meet Matt Chapman’s asking price at third base, but Gio Urshela and Justin Turner would represent much more affordable alternatives. Any of that trio would meet the Mariners’ previously stated goal of improving the club’s contact rate (which hasn’t exactly been strictly adhered to, when looking at the acquisition of Raley in particular).
On the trade market, Minnesota’s Jorge Polanco is a natural target who could step in at second base (speculatively speaking, to be clear). The Twins are deep in controllable young infielders and looking to slightly scale back payroll due to the RSN collapse that’s impacting budgets around the league (including the Mariners). The switch-hitting Polanco is earning $10.5MM this season and has a $12MM option for the ’25 campaign. The Reds, Orioles, Cardinals and Guardians are also deep in infield talent and could be intrigued by Seattle’s stock of young arms. That said, Dipoto cast significant doubt on his willingness to move a controllable starting pitcher with his weekend comments.
“We did a lot of groundwork on what it might look like if we did trade one of those young starters, and we never liked the way it looked,” Dipoto said (via Divish). He called retaining his stock of young arms (e.g. Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, Bryce Miller, Bryan Woo, Emerson Hancock) “Plan A” this offseason.
Within that same media session, Dipoto maintained an openness to further additions to the roster, speculatively rattling off the possibility of making “a fun addition in the bullpen” or more generally “an upgrade somewhere on the field that we don’t really have.” The Mariners have an imposing late-inning trio of Andres Munoz, Matt Brash and Justin Topa, but they’re relatively light on lefty options — with 28-year-old Gabe Speier and 30-year-old Tayler Saucedo as the only options on the 40-man roster. Both were solid in 2023, but neither had found any real MLB success prior to last season.
Dipoto has said previously that the Mariners’ 2024 payroll could increase over its 2023 levels, although a substantial increase hasn’t looked likely all winter. Ownership has rather clearly placed some fiscal constraints on Dipoto, GM Justin Hollander and the rest of the front office, as they’re among the many teams in the game facing financial uncertainty due to their own RSN situation.
Roster Resource currently projects a payroll of around $132MM for the Mariners, which sits about $8MM shy of last year’s end-of-season mark. Divish writes within his column that the Mariners want to leave some wiggle room for in-season additions, but there’s of course still some room beneath last year’s budget and the possibility that additional trades could further alter the current payroll outlook.
Fred Park
They are good to go right now.
Just more “due diligence”.
Of course no team is ever perfect, but this team right here will compete with anybody at the highest level.
Go Mariners!
bloomquist4hof
I hope they’re good to go, but I’m really concerned that (to me at least) they look more like they are built more like an 85 win wildcard hopeful than a solid contender. That doesn’t mean they can’t actually be a good team as built, but there are a lot of role player types in their starting lineup. That can work out, they can still be good this year, and they aren’t a bad team by any stretch. They some decent depth pieces, although losing Cabby hurt that quite a bit, but it wouldn’t take much bad luck on injuries, performance, or just in game luck for them to play more like .500 ball than a playoff contender
Fred Park
Maybe so, but I still think they are done adding, as far as this year’s team goes, and they are good enough.
You need to stop somewhere, and this current concern about revenues is well justified.
bloomquist4hof
I hope they are not done adding. They need infield and bullpen depth. I’d love to see a add of at least one quality bullpen arm and someone who can play the IF well, maybe a utility infielder that wouldn’t embarrass at SS for an extended period if the situation came up or they wanted to give Crawford days at DH to keep him fresh. Those moves won’t move the needle much but are definitely needed. Thankfully that sounds like they’re plan. T he starting pitching can carry the team if it holds up reaosnably well and the rest of the team doesnt implode
mdbaseball05
Yep, that’s my concern as well. We are relying too much on those that probably shouldn’t be starters yet in Canzone, Urias, and Rojas. These are all players that placed with negative WAR or around replacement level. They did bring in Haniger and Garver, but Haniger could very easily miss a ton of time again.
I think the Kelenic trade is going to go down as the worst in Mariners history, but I think the outfield is in an okay spot for now. I definitely would love to see an upgrade at 3B or 2B before the season starts though. And, a legit upgrade for once… none of this Frazier/Wong/Rojas and the whole “let’s take a chance on a rando and hope he turns it around” kinda move. This is a playoff team… make a move to push yourselves over the top.
slund24
Never thought anyone could say that trading away a career .204 hitter with .283 career OBP that seems to not be very well liked by teammates could be considered the worst trade in a teams franchise. Especially when packaged with one of the worst contracts in baseball and another high salary that wasn’t worth a roster spot.
Chester Copperpot
“will go down as the worst trades in history” He is making a future prediction, and a perfectly sane one at that. Kelenic is 23 years old, he has a lot of baseball ahead of him. Yes, if he turns into a multi-year all-star, who hits 30-35 HRS per year, and the M’s traded him to clear $20M worth of salary, that would be a HORRIBLE trade. It’s not crazy to envision Kelenic doing that either.
muskie73
To be precise: Jarred Kelenic is 24 years old.
mlb fan
“To clear 20M worth of salary”..Kelenic was pre-arb and NOT making anywhere close to 20M. I keep hearing this “clearing salary” stuff with the Kelenic trade, when he is a minimum salary player who was almost certainly traded because he was a head case who was not well liked by teammates(or so we’ve heard).
User 401527550
I guess you haven’t watched him play. He will never hit 30 hrs in a season.
Chester Copperpot
I’ve watched him play plenty. You don’t see 30 HR potential? Why in the world was he the 6th overall pick, and why did the Mariners trade Diaz & Cano to get him?
He has 32 HRs in his first 974 PAs in the big leagues, he’s shown plenty of HR potential. His average EV for 2023 was 90.9mph; better than Santander (90.6) Freddie Freeman (90.0), & Mitch Garver (90.0)… see it yet?
shyzer
You keep hearing this “clearing salary” stuff because Kelenic and his potential upside was the price paid in order to clear the salaries of Marco Gonzales ($12.25M) and Evan White ($17M)
Bookbook
They cleared Marco’s $13 million and Evan White’s $12 million (over 2 years), by packaging them with Kelenic (and $4.5 million)
Kelenic was the sweetener that allowed the M’s to make the salary dumps.
bloomquist4hof
Never is a big word. Kelenic also had more of a line drive swing than someone trying to loft into the stands. He could change his approach for one, but he has the hallmarks of a high average hitter if he can reduce strikeouts some. He doesnt even need to hit 30 hr. A .270 hitter with middling power can still be a very good bat. I wouldn’t completey dismiss the idea of him actually turning into a good player. He has the bat speed to hit. Its not elite but ita good and a swing that could lead to good batting average. His hitting instinct/pitch recognition hasnt been spectacular to date but hes young, he clobbered MiLB pitching at a young age. Even a more normal career progression probably has him being a solid regular by his peak.
TheGr8One
Google Heathcliff Slocumb and you’ll see that no matter what Kelenic does it won’t be the worst trade in franchise history let alone MLB history.
LDilbert
if Kelenic plays for the mariners in 2024 he hits
124 games
.245
.295
98 ops
13 homeruns
17 doubles
17sb
We didn’t lose much. There’s just as much chance he hits better/worse
You have to account for his maturity level also
But I’m excited for these new guys!
Got rid of the kids throwing seeds and got some men to fill the positions. Looking forward to 6’4 beef boys Big Dumper and Luke Nukem Raley
6’2 Haniger
6’1 Garver
Replacing players under 6’0
Geno
Teo
kelenic
Wong
Ford
Braves_saints_celts
Where did you hear those things about not being well liked? It’s a genuine question because AA almost never adds clubhouse cancers to the team, it’s usually the complete opposite as he usually adds guys that would fit in with our club and our chemistry seamlessly.
mdbaseball05
Yeah, I’ve broken it down elsewhere, but the only reason Kelenic looks bad is because he was called up too early, simply put. Outside of the top studs in the league like Harper, Soto, etc… the guys his age around league were playing college ball or in AA at the same age he was called to the MLB in the middle of a playoff race. The pressure on him to succeed was far too great. Not to mention then watching Julio sign the contract after his debut. But, as others have said, he is only 24.
Yeah, the Slocumb trade and even the Bedard trade could be seen as worse from the standpoint of looking back, but in both cases, the Mariners thought they were getting something legit in return. The year of Slocumb, they were in a playoff race and had the worst bullpen in baseball, and there weren’t many reliever options. With Bedard, they needed an ace at the top of the rotation.
With Kelenic though, he was a 2 Win player last year at age 23, and they traded him to rid of around $10M this year and got two minor league arms… he wasn’t packaged for some big piece. He was traded to save less money than they are now paying DeSclafani to be a 6th man in the rotation
TheGr8One
They saved 20 million+ per year to trade Kelenic. DeSclafani isn’t making 20+ per year. Your final point is entirely inaccurate.
lee cousins
You got this wrong Kelenic was thrown in the trade in order to move salary with White, and Gonsales which both were move once again with there new team.
bloomquist4hof
BTW, I love your enthusiasm. I’m not as much of a pessimist as it could seen. They’re in great shape medium term, have low commitments going forward, lots of cheap quality talent at the MLB level and a prospect pipeline that is slowly but surely regrowing. A sustained 85-90 win team would likely lead to some playoff berths, I do wish they’d raise the payroll 30-40 million to be more in line with modern playoff teams, it would give them the flexibility to make solid adds over marginal adds.
Fred Park
And how about this idea, as sort of a “thought for the bluebird”? We should not be too surprised if they now flip Haniger and get the infield help they are looking for.
bloomquist4hof
I definitely could see them move Haniger, especially if they can find a better fit for the outfield.
LDilbert
They just announced the fan favorite Haniger is back! On their website
D-Nice
I think Merrifield or someone like that would be much better. Then you could have those two that currently are penciled in as a platoon at the other position.
BPax
Fred, In the spirit of MLK Jr; I have a dream too. That they traded away their two left-handed starters and cleared other salaries to sign local guy Blake Snell!!!! It’s only a dream but you never know.
good vibes only
Happy New Year Fred. Don’t think this team is constructed to be a playoff winner, but they are looking at least on par with opening day last year. I still think they need one more stud bat to push them over the top.
Fred Park
Happy New Year to you, too, good vibes only.
You may very well be right, and we can always hope for that. I would love to see another big bat and some backup help around second base.
good vibes only
2b is an interesting one. Bliss or Cole Young will probably be pushing for playing time there at some point next year. Maybe even in spring ball
bloomquist4hof
They definitely could use a big bat. Keeping Garver away from catching may help. If what he showed last year holds over in another year of mostly DHing theres a non zero he is the big bat they need. Ditto on Raley, a little lesser of a big bat, but if his seemingly out of nowhere breakout was more a function of incosistent playing time as some say, and even a dice roll on a healthy season from Haniger and who knows, they could have already added 3 middle of the order bats. I have some hope partiucarly in Garver’s case as hes shown glimpses of just that. Canzone is another guy that seems like he could find another gear with the bat skills. He has a legit power swing and seemingly decent batting eye even if he needa to walk more often. We have candidates to be those big bats. If 2 of them play that way our offense might even be good.
good vibes only
Agreed on all counts. I like the Garver add a lot. He will not catch. Those other guys round out the roster nicely with some upside, but they all have very low floors too.
bloomquist4hof
Garver is the only one of that group that I have a good confidence that he will be good, the question is more how good. My bigger concern with Haniger is staying healthy obviously, my suspicions are that if he’s healthy he hits.
Bill the Cat
I would love it if the M’s signed Turner. He’s not the best defensive player of course, and Garver is now their primary DH, so it’s not gonna happen. Still would be good for us.
MartialArtisan
You say that every year, Fred. Optimism isn’t always a bad thing, but you need to face the facts. This team isn’t up to par with the Rangers and Astros.
Fever Pitch Guy
Story and Jansen for Kirby, that would fill Seattle’s needs. Do it!!
jdizzle ATL Braves
LOL
3768902
Idk man, too light of a return for BOS. Maybe if Griffey Jr. also changed his HOF cap to BOS they’d have a deal.
mlb fan
“Too light of a return for BOS”..Story’s best days are in the rear view mirror and nobody’s taking that lead weight & substantial payroll hit off Boston’s hands. And certainly not for a TOR pitcher like Kirby. This proposal would get the phone hung up on you.
slund24
Yeah, Boston would also have to include their top 10 prospects in order for Dipoto to take that call.
Joel P
If you are going to quote someone use the whole quote stop chopping it up. Defeats the purpose of a quote.
Fever Pitch Guy
8675309 – So it sounds like you’re saying JRod should also be worked into the deal …. I agree! Maybe Boston can pay half of Jansen’s salary and also include a top prospect like Dalbec.
D-Nice
I actually like it, but Seattle wouldn’t. I still have hope for Story’s bat if he can stay healthy. Jansen will probably be what he was last year, but they could put him in the 7th or 8th inning. He doesn’t necessarily have to close. By the way, I only like it if Boston threw in some cash too.
mlb fan
I don’t necessarily blame Dipoto, because the edicts are definitely coming from ownership, but can you really say the M’s are as good or better than last year?
Big whiffa
Right ! Lack of tv funds clearly effected their plans and they have done decent adjusting. Line up looks real bad though imo
good vibes only
I don’t think they are worse than they were on opening day last year w Pollock, La Stella, and Wong in regular lineups. So yeah I would say at least as good.
unpaidobserver
I totally read this at first as “Mariners Exploring Bankruptcy.”
Troy Percival's iPad
Listening to dIpoto explain Trades is like listening to someone explaining Crypyto-currency:
All the dog-and-pony show just for the Tax Return to show that they gained (lost) $400 on it
Reynaldo
He doesn’t dictate his team’s budget, wise guy.
Slider_withcheese
Nolan Gorman would look awfully good at 2b and would be worth giving up that prized pitching they are too stubborn to move.
mdbaseball05
Yep, love the idea of Gorman in Seattle. My other thought is trading one of the lesser pitchers (Woo or maybe Miller) to Baltimore for Mayo or Westburg, with some other pieces to fill it out. Both are expendable pieces for the Orioles, and they need starting pitching… just always thought they were a nice fit.
O'sSayCanYouSee
I think the Orioles and Mariners do line up for trades, but Woo or Miller isn’t going to get Mayo…maybe Westberg. And as far as the Orioles go, Woo or Miller isn’t enough of a return for Westberg. Orioles will probably only spend prospects to get a TOR guy and I don’t think Woo or Miller are quite that type.
John Phillips
It would take a lot more than Gorman to get any of the Seattle starters.
Armaments216
Gorman for DeSclafani it is. Done!
slund24
Thats probably the only pitcher I would be ok with M’s trading for Gorman
Joel P
Dude Gorman isn’t available. No chance at all.
rdf922
Gorman doesn’t fit the Mariners “more contact” plan but Brendan Donovan sure does.
Donovan and ++parts for Gilbert?
Joel P
Would love to get Gilbert in a deal involving Donovan. Nootbaar for Gilbert is a deal I was wanting for a while. Donovan plus a good amount more would be cool. Need to send a starter back to the Mariners. Both Donovan and Nootbaar are exactly the type of hitters the Mariners GM said they were looking for.
Javia135
Seattle doesn’t want to trade Gilbert. It would require Nootbaar and Roby at the very least to even get Seattle’s attention. Likely more.
Joel P
At this point it doesn’t matter the Cardinals aren’t trading Nootbaar. Based on the Mariners offseason they would trade Castillo because he makes a lot of money if they traded any starter. But after the Cardinals signed 3 starters they are out on a deal like that. Donovan for Castillo is probably about right though.
DarkSide830
Ol Dealin’ Dipoto makes a few suspect moves to make the public think he’s a genius again while the team needs more serious improvements. Evergreen.
Reynaldo
What would you do?
Liberalsteve
1 year ago, I said the best teams in MLB in 2025 would be:
Seattle,Cincinnati,Baltimore,Detroit,Atlanta
You can cut out Seattle and Cinci. Pathetic ownership. Add Dodgers and Texas.
Those 5 will be awesome in 2025
User 401527550
Are you being serious with Detroit?
Ray626
If Mariners are interested in a second baseman, Whit Merrifield is still available and he would slot in perfect in that line-up.
John Phillips
He stinks offensively and is overpaid
pleasantflavor
Feels like the trade route for 3B or 2B while utilizing a portion of the remaining budget on RP.
Could they get Adames, Cronenworth or Lowe without trading Miller/Woo? Maybe Polanco.
Sure would be nice to have a solid everyday solution.
A signing of Robert Stephenson, Jordan Hicks or even Liam Hendricks seems out of reach and out of character. They are more likely shopping in the McHugh, Junis or Fujinami aisle.
bloomquist4hof
If they wanted to make a surprise splash the bullpen feels like a good place to do it
BillR47
Mariners should try to complete a trade of prospects with the Brewers for the last year of Willy Adames arbitration. He would play 3B and some SS to rest JP, and Luis Urais/Josh Rojas would platoon 2B. I think this would complete a reasonably good offseason.
Big whiffa
Why would brewers trade him ? They need him this year like guardians need bieber. No way either is traded until team is out of contention and that’s not likely for either
John Phillips
France, Urias, Spier, and Clase to the Brewers for Adames and Devin Williams?
Bnickles127
Don’t hold your breath, best bet is to be in contention and maybe this year they will trade that prospect for a rental bat
Bnickles127
Would love to add Polanco and lengthen lineup to 6-7 decent bats deep
Eric Baechler
We need one more Add to get us over the Hump from last years Team! With some veteran leadership and a guy that has been there. Justin Turner on a one year Deal makes the most sense and the Mariners would have a Better lineup than a year ago! With a nice Bench as well
kylek58
Jorge Polanco is literally a perfect fit there, they have a wide open hole at 2nd, he’s on a modest salary that the M’s can easily pay, and if wouldn’t take a huge prospect haul to get him, just get it done Jerry.
muskie73
Jorge Polanco’s guaranteed $11.25 million is not a modest salary given Seattle’s reported financial constraints … especially for a 30-year-old infielder who has fallen short of 2.0 fWAR the last two seasons.
Stevil
It’s in line with DeSclafani’s salary, especially if you factor in the buyout.
I don’t think that’s a deal that works one-for-one, but with a complementary prospect?
Bookbook
Polanco has surplus value at his salary. Descalfini was mostly a salary dump by SFG (to balance out some of the dollars owed Ray). If the M’s include Descalfini they have to give better prospects than if they dont
Stevil
I don’t think Polanco has too much value.. He only played in 80 games last year, and just over 100 in 2022. There was some doubt that the Twins would even exercise their option for 2024. Solid player when healthy, but the same could be said about DeSclafani.
Again, I don’t think a straight swap would work without salary relief or a lesser prospect was involved, but I could see something working out between the two clubs.
Joel P
If the Mariners could easily pay salary their offseason would look entirely different at this point.
muskie73
ZiPS projected Seattle with 85-90 wins in 2024 before the Mariners acquired Mitch Garver, Luke Raley, Mitch Haniger and Anthony DeSclafani.
blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-zips-projections-seattle-…
It’s been a fascinating offseason.
octavian8
Jonathan India. Natural fit. Seattle has pitching and needs an everyday 2B and Cincy needs pitching. Seems a natural fit.
Joel P
Reds need top of the rotation pitching they have loads of back end guys. Perhaps India and a back end guy for Castillo. Mariners wouldn’t have to pay Castillo that would have some appeal to them.
muskie73
If the Reds want a former Cincinnati starter back, Seattle could offer up Anthony DeSclafani … but the Mariners would have little interest in Jonathan India, who has accured only 1.7 fWAR in 222 games over the last two seasons. Joshj Rojas has posted 3.8 fWAR in 230 games over the past two seaason.
Joel P
Hey if the Mariners think Rojas is worth starting good luck with that.
muskie73
If the Reds want a former Cincinnati starter back, Seattle could offer up Anthony DeSclafani … but the Mariners would have little interest in Jonathan India, who has accrued only 1.7 fWAR in 222 games over the last two seasons. Josh Rojas has posted 3.8 fWAR in 230 games over the past two seaasons.
muskie73
A Seattle blogger provides an update on Josh Rojas:
lookoutlanding.com/2024/1/8/24024223/40-in-40-josh…
LDilbert
Seattle only wants Julio best friend back . What will it take from our minors Cincinnati fans?
Hancock, Harry Ford, Gabriel Gonzales?
Hancock, tai peete, Jonathon clase
Or
Celestine, Lazaro Montes, Hancock
octavian8
I think you’re on to something but are looking at it backwards. A Noelvi-Julio trade is a great idea with Julio coming to Cincy. We will send you India, Friedl and Benson. Three immediate starters. Julio will love playing on a winning team. You’re welcome.
LDilbert
lol we’re not selling Julio on his down year. We’re gonna wait for a bounced season from him to trade at his peak value
Hahahaha
muskie73
FWIW the Seattle Mariners have won 90, 90 and 88 games the last three years while the Cincinnati Reds have won 83, 62 and 82.
The Mariners currently are projected to maintain their advantage over the Reds:
fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Team
LDilbert
He was joking
Reynaldo
Hate to shatter your dream, but India is not a competent defensive 2B .
sillywabbit
No one wants India, especially for pitching.
Joel P
Marte for Castillo
As weird as that would be it actually makes sense. Reds need an ace and Mariners need an infielder and apparently salary relief.
LDilbert
That’s the easy move, sure! Let’s do it!
Now it’s talking Castillo and the reds into it
John Phillips
India has been bad for 2 years
melfman1
If I were the Yankees GM, I’d propose a trade of Gleyber Torres plus a prospect (maybe Pereira) for one of the young Mariner arms. Yanks can eat his $15 million salary for the year to sweeten the pot, since Seattle is trying to keep payroll limited. Gleyber can take over 2B and the Yanks plug their 4th starter issue.
sillywabbit
Gleyber even at a league minimum salary won’t land one our our young starters. That’s a comically low offer.
melfman1
Agree to disagree. One of the best offensive 2B in baseball fits perfectly in the infield hole that Seattle currently has in their roster. One full year of control at zero cost plus exclusive free agency negotiation rights and a former top 100 prospect is a decent hall. They might have to add another flyer prospect but it isn’t far off.
John Phillips
I might do that trade for Hancock but not Miller or Woo
LDilbert
I bet Jerry would really like Noelvi marte back.
I could see him giving up different prospects for Julio’s good friend
Who would you like in our minors, reds. Their yours for Noelvi
I like Adam Frazier for situational hitting too
LDilbert
Frazier with the second biggest hit for the mariners in 2022! Double against Toronto in the playoffs
chalk73
What would they give the Angels for Rengifo?
BigRedMachine
I like that idea…..
BigRedMachine
The Mariners must get a difference making second or third baseman before the season starts. Not Kolten Wong or Tommy La Stella types, an impact bat. Urias and Rojas can platoon at second or third based on which position you end up shoring up. I like 2b Polanco from the Twins. Does Desclafani for Polanco work? Does Cade Marlowe and a decent prosepect like Clase work?
Stevil
Some quick notes/thoughts about the Mariners’ pursuit of a third baseman (and it is a third baseman)…
1. With the concerns about future commitments and arbitration raises, along with the reluctancy to trade top prospects, it’s highly unlikely Seattle trades for a player in his arbitration years.
2. They likely have no intention of keeping DeSclafani. if they can help it. They would probably like to move him for a third baseman, perhaps with a B prospect, and yes, Polanco makes sense. Minnesota has three solid SPs right now. It isn’t a stretch to think they might be interested in moving Polanco and/or Kepler for a back-end starter.
And regarding relievers….
They’ve been comfortable chasing projects for middle-innings roles. What they could really use is a high-leverage arm who could close when needed. A lefty would be especially useful. Think Tanner Scott or a comparable reliever.
BigRedMachine
You just don’t know that. You don’t know for sure that they are only looking at bringing in a 3B. There also seems to be a few more 2b options than 3b as well with Polanco and India, though Jerry NEVER does the obvious.
Stevil
Polanco can play third or second. India is arbitration-eligible, not a good defender, and they have Ryan Bliss set to debut at some point next season. Then there’s young, who may debut in 2025. It just doesn’t make sense to trade for someone like India or any other second-base only defender.
Jerry always has multiple plans. But with Rojas/Moore/Urías all being better defenders at 2B, and Bliss knocking on the door, it’s far more likely we see a third baseman, or someone who can handle third, rather than a pure second baseman.
BigRedMachine
OK. Thanks
octavian8
DeScalfani maybe was brought in to replace a starter they are trading?
Stevil
No, not likely, Jerry said he has already talked to him and that he would be the number 6 starter, meaning he would be stashed in the bullpen for long-relief. He also stated that they gave thought to the possibility of trading a young starter and suggested they didn’t like the projections. Never say never, if a team offered a young starter who appears close to being MLB-ready in a package, I’d imagine Seattle would consider it. But it looks like the rotation is set, barring injury or a surprise signing/trade that brings back a legitimate starter.
I think there’s value in that for both player and team, given how much time he missed. But if there’s an opportunity for the Mariners to move DeSclafani, I think they’ll take it. Minnesota makes sense because they need pitching and have a budget just as tight as Seattle’s.
I know a lot of people here use that BTV site as a guide, but they’ve been wrong with nearly everything Seattle has done. It’s a site for fun, not for facts.
bloomquist4hof
BTV has some whacky numbers. I wonder how they calculate those numbers. If it doesnt start with some expected value minus expected cost calculation with other considerations, it doesnt reflect reality. Yes theres alot of other considerations than that, marginal players have lower overall relative trade value as an example and stars get treated differently in trade, but their numbers are often really far off from that.
Stevil
It’s an amateur site, no different than a fan blog or podcast.. It’s not possible to assert true value like a simple calculator.. So much depends on things that can’t be calculated, and every team has their own system for projecting value.
Some players have more value to their respective team than they would for another because of depth, weather, stadium, etc. Then there’s injury history, projected/likely injury risk, decline due to age, environment, personal habits….
It’s fun for fans to imagine and pretend. There’s nothing wrong with that. But when it’s used as a base for an argument, it’s about as useful as someone using a single stat as damning evidence for the win.
bloomquist4hof
There’s alot of nuance to it but at rhe end of the day most trades have marginal value being the cornerstone of the valuation process, even though that is not even close to 100% of what teams consider for trade value.
bus035
The M’s have so many cost friendly deals and ownership’s unwillingness to go get 2 more $20+ million guys to take this team over-the-top is unconscionable.
I don’t recall a professional sports organization putting in so much time and effort into successfully rehauling an organization then quitting at the 1 yard line. So frustrating as an M’s fan
Joel P
I agree. I think the Mariners have made many fair trades this offseason but it’s all about cutting payroll. And like you said the team was and probably still is close. This would be very frustrating as a fan. The franchise has 1 playoff appearance in the last 20 years and they sold at the deadline and missed the playoffs by a game and winning the division by a couple games I believe.
good vibes only
Bingo. Jerry is doing a great job working with what he has been given but ownership lack of investment at the 1 yard line is pathetic.
sillywabbit
Without knowing the actual team finances, we fans can only speculate. From a business perspective, they might be making a sound fiscal decision. It’s easy to spend other peoples money. Perhaps following a team like the Dodgers would have you less frustrated?
Stevil
It’s the fans’ money. Without the fans, the organization wouldn’t exist.
Nobody should forget that.
good vibes only
Spot on Stevil. Don’t forget all the taxpayer money this team has taken too!
Bookbook
It would take more than that for Polanco. He’d be a good get for the right prospects.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Why did they trade Ray? He’s a solid pitcher. Honestly, how are they better than before?
yeasties
No way to know for sure, but it looks like the Mariners are planning for their budget to be flat for the next few years. They’ve got a lot of salary commitments to young stars on their roster coming up and trading Ray helps pay for that
You are right, they’re not any better.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I would think they are worse actually, though I’m not too familiar with their young guns. That makes sense about Ray, however. He’s always been on the move the past few years.
riley s
Seeing as Ray is out until late July/August, I think it’s a good deal if Haniger is healthy (big if, but I believe). Desclafani is good depth when a starter inevitably gets shelved for a few weeks.
Our rotation is elite without Robbie still.
good vibes only
Ray may not contribute at all in 2024 recovering from TJ, and he is a lock to opt-in. I like him but they dont need a 25M/yr SP5. They are immediately better because at least Haniger and Desclafani are more likely to contribute from Opening Day this year and they had a need in OF and bullpen, or even consider Desc their SP5 and feel fine trading a young arm for a bat. Good move. Still not anything more than a fringe playoff team tho
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Diamondbacks were/are a fringe playoff team and so were the Phillies in 2022 and both got very far.
good vibes only
I guess 54% is enough then if we want to almost win something
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I’m just saying a playoff team is a playoff team, whether they’re the superstar Dodgers or a “fringe” team
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Maybe we can ship them Bobby Dalbach.
muskie73
Was Ken Rosenthal speculating when he wrote: “The Mariners still would like to add one more bat in the infield so they are not as reliant on Josh Rojas at second and Luis Urias at third”? Rosenthal failed to attribute that sentiment to anyone associated with the Mariners.
In Sunday’s article, Seattle Times beat reporter Ryan Divish provided extensive quotes from Mariner PBO Jerry Dipoto. In those quotes Dipoto never mentioned the infield specifically.
good vibes only
I hope Rosenthal isn’t speculating, because someone in the Mariners should be saying that if they didn’t!
cmessick2080
I think if they add anyone it would Gio Urshela but I don’t see them adding a big name in free agency.
BenjiB24
The Mariners need lifepreservers because the waters freezing and there aren’t enough boats
BenjiB24
The article failed to mention J.P. Crawford at SS
BenjiB24
Trade him to the Giants for more pitching. I’m not confident in Brian Woo