The Giants and Mariners have completed a trade, per announcements from both clubs, that will send left-hander Robbie Ray to the Giants, with outfielder Mitch Haniger, right-hander Anthony DeSclafani and cash considerations going to the Mariners. It’s an out-of-nowhere trade involving significant pieces going in both directions. Per Andrew Baggarly of The Athletic, it’s approximately $6MM going to Seattle.
“As we continue to build out our team for 2024 and beyond, we feel this trade accomplishes a couple of our objectives,” said president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto in the official announcement. “In Mitch, we get a player we know well, and hold in very high regard, as another piece for our outfield, while Anthony – who can start or pitch out of the ‘pen – gives us depth in our pitching staff. And the deal allows us to put the best team possible on the field from Opening Day on.
“I do want to thank Robbie for his time in Seattle. On the field and in the clubhouse, he was a key part of taking us to the postseason in 2022 and in allowing us to remain in the race down to the final days in 2023. He provided leadership to our young pitchers that will be felt here for years to come. We wish he and his family nothing but the best in San Francisco.”
Ray, now 32, won the American League Cy Young with the Blue Jays in 2021 and parlayed that into a five-year, $115MM deal with the Mariners, with the ability to opt out after three seasons. His first year with Seattle was strong, as he made 32 starts with a 3.71 earned run average. He struck out 27.4% of batters faced while issuing walks at just an 8% clip. But in 2023, he made just one appearance before being shut down and eventually requiring elbow surgery to both repair his flexor tendon and reconstruct his ulnar collateral ligament.
As Ray sat out the rest of the 2023 season, the Seattle rotation actually managed to fare well in his absence. Luis Castillo, Logan Gilbert and George Kirby were in the front, with prospects Bryce Miller Emerson Hancock and Bryan Woo stepping up to help out. All six of those players were still under club control going into 2024, giving the Mariners something of a rotation surplus that led to some trade speculation.
They have held tight to that group so far and could have had Ray rejoin the rotation later in the year, perhaps as soon as midseason. But instead, it seems they have decided to exchange him for players that can help them throughout the entire year. Ray had a full no-trade clause for 2022 and 2023 but could be moved without his input now that the calendar has flipped to 2024.
For the Giants, their rotation was inconsistent in 2023 as they were arguably the club that was the least committed to traditional starter usage. Logan Webb and Alex Cobb were mainstays but pitchers like Ross Stripling, Alex Wood, Sean Manaea and DeSclafani were often moved to the bullpen or the injured list or both.
Looking ahead to 2024, it’s possible that the rotation will again evolve over the course of the season. Cobb underwent hip surgery and may not be ready for the beginning of the campaign, meaning he and Ray will be jumping into the mix once they are healthy. But at the start of the season, Webb currently figures to be joined by Stripling, but with plenty of uncertainty beyond that. Younger pitchers such as Kyle Harrison, Keaton Winn and Tristan Beck could be in the mix but none of that group even has a full year in the big leagues to this point. But with Cobb and Ray hopping on board along the way, the rotation could be in a much different place at the end of the season.
Of course, there’s nothing to suggest that the club is done with their offseason moves. There’s still over a month until Spring Training and the Giants have been connected to big name free agents like Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery and Shota Imanaga. Bob Nightengale of USA Today says the Giants are still in on Snell even after this trade. There are also plenty of other free agents still available if the Giants don’t nab any of those three.
In exchange for Ray, the Mariners will bolster their lineup with a familiar face, as Haniger was with the club from 2017 to 2022. Health was an ongoing issue, including missing the entire 2020 season, but he was a tremendous offensive asset when on the field. He hit 107 home runs in his 530 games during those seasons, slashing .263/.337/.480 for a wRC+ of 124.
After reaching free agency, he signed with the Giants on a three-year, $43.5MM deal going into 2023, with an opt-out opportunity after the second season. His first year in San Francisco didn’t go well, as he made trips to the injured list for a left oblique strain, fractured right forearm and low back strain. He only played 61 games and hit a tepid .209/.266/.365 when he was in the lineup.
The Giants recently signed Jung Hoo Lee to be their center fielder, which will nudge Mike Yastrzemski over into the corner outfield mix alongside Michael Conforto. There could have been room for Haniger in there still with the designated hitter slot, but the Giants also have Wilmer Flores as a good candidate for that spot, perhaps making Haniger more useful in Seattle than in San Francisco.
The Mariners did a lot of subtracting from their lineup in the early parts of the offseason. They didn’t make a qualifying offer to Teoscar Hernández, then traded away Eugenio Suárez and Jarred Kelenic in separate deals. That removed three potent but strikeout-prone bats from the lineup as the Mariners looked to find more contact and juggle their finances amid uncertainty around their broadcast revenue.
They have subsequently switched their focus to additions, signing Mitch Garver to serve as a backup catcher/designated hitter and now Haniger will join the corner outfield mix. Haniger won’t help too much with the strikeout issues, as he’s been punched out at a rate of 24.5% or higher in each of the past four full seasons. But his right-handed bat should pair well with lefties likes Dominic Canzone, Taylor Trammell and Cade Marlowe. Another left-handed outfielder, Luke Raley, was also acquired from the Rays today in a separate trade. Haniger doesn’t have huge platoon splits but his 129 wRC+ against lefties in his career is a few points better than his 114 versus righties.
There’s also DeSclafani heading to Seattle, adding to their pitching staff. He had some solid seasons as a mid-rotation guy with the Reds but struggled badly in the shortened 2020 season, an all-timed down year as he was heading into free agency. He then settled for a one-year pillow deal with the Giants, earning $6MM in 2021. He posted a 3.17 ERA that year over 167 2/3 innings and parlayed that into a three-year, $36MM deal to return to San Francisco.
That second deal hasn’t worked out nearly as well for the Giants, however. DeSclafani only made five starts in 2022 as he dealt with ankle issues that eventually required surgery. In 2023, he threw just under 100 innings, missing time due to right shoulder fatigue and a right elbow flexor strain, posting a 4.88 ERA in the process.
In Dipoto’s statement quoted above, he explicitly mentioned that DeSclafani can pitch out of the rotation or the bullpen. 169 out of his 180 major league games have been starts but it seems as though the Mariners won’t be guaranteeing him a rotation spot. As mentioned, they have Castillo, Kirby and Gilbert in the front three spots. Miller, Woo and Hancock all had encouraging results in 2023 but they’ve yet to pitch a full season in the big leagues. Perhaps DeSclafani’s role will be determined by his health and performance, as well as how those youngsters look. If they surpass him on the depth chart, he could be moved to the bullpen, and injuries could always open up opportunities as the season goes along. It also can’t be ruled out that the Mariners have yet another trade in the works between now and the start of the season, giving the way they typically operate.
Turning to the financials, it will be close to cash neutral in 2024 but there are many ways that it could play out down the road. Ray and Haniger each have $1MM assignment bonuses for being traded, so that’s a wash. Ray is going to make $23MM this year and is set to make $25MM in the next two campaigns, but he can opt out after the 2024 season, meaning he’ll have to decide whether or not to leave two years and $50MM on the table. If he’s healthy and effective this year, it’s easy to see him opting out and beating that on the open market, at least in terms of total guarantee. But if things don’t go smoothly in the months to come, perhaps he would take the security of the proverbial bird in the hand.
Haniger will have a $17MM salary this year and $15.5MM next year, though he can also opt out after the 2024 campaign. Another injury-marred season like he had in 2023 would likely lead to him staying put, but another bounceback from him would obviously change the calculus. DeSclafani is set to make $12MM this year, the final season of his deal. With $29MM owed to Haniger/DeSclafani this year and $23MM owed to Ray, the approximately $6MM coming from the Giants will cover the difference. But into the future, it will depend on the opt-out decisions.
The Mariners have had some payroll concerns due to their uncertain broadcast situation and had a decent chunk of their budget tied up in Ray, who wasn’t going to be able to help at all in the first half of the season. They are giving away the upside of his late-season return for a lineup upgrade and a pitcher who can hopefully be a more immediate factor for them. For the Giants, they took two players who were getting squeezed for playing time and turned them into an upside play on a potentially-elite lefty who could be a significant wild card down the stretch.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported the three players involved in the swap. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic first reported that cash would be involved.
marinersblue96
What the hell is going on with the M’s????
acoss13
Um Mariners should be buying to add to the roster, not subtracting it. Are the Mariners really that strapped for payroll this year? That sucks because this team should be contending…
Joel P
Yeah Mariners look like they only care about lowering payroll. This is an interesting move for sure. Gotta soak this one in.
Poolhalljunkies
The money on this looks like a wash..so nothing lowered
Joel P
How is including 3 million a wash? Yes the article says that but that doesn’t add up.
Travis’ Wood
Joel it’s quite simple. Ray is making $23 mil this year. Haniger and Desclafani are making $29 mil. By including $3 mil to Seattle the 2024 salaries offset. Basically Seattle is trading the extra 2/50 for Ray in exchange for the 1/15 owed to Haniger. It’s and incredible deal for Seattle
Smacky
Ray has like $75m in future earnings which the Mariners want no part of.
Rexhudler86
Giants get a pitcher, they probably couldn’t sign in free agency. 2/50 isn’t necessarily bad for 25’ 26’. Fair trade for both sides.
Joel P
Baseball reference has Haniger at 20 million DeScalfini at 12. And anyways the difference between 29 and 23 million is 6 million not 3.
???
Smacky
Remember AAV.
Travis’ Wood
Joel, it’s basic math. 29-3=26. 23+3=26. It’s a cash neutral trade for 2024
Joel P
The trade has been updated and now it says 6 million not 3 million. It said 3 million earlier. And again baseball reference says Haniger makes 20 million and DeScalfini 12 which is 32.
These are complicating trades with details that are updating as we speak. It’s not basic math dude.
Pete'sView
It’s $3M, just read the breakdowns.
Joel P
It’s saying 6 million. It’s also saying Haniger makes 17 million but baseball reference said he makes 20 million.
The Virus
If you have $10 and I have $2. You have $8 more than me. And you give me $3. You now have $7 and I have $5. Now you have $2 more than me. Cause you went down by $3 and I went up by $3. Which is a total move of $6.
Joel P
Ok that makes sense Virus thank you.
Still not sure why Baseball reference says Haniger is making 20 million.
stymeedone
29-3=23+3
sadMariner
BBREF says this: “2024 Contract Status: Signed thru 2024, 2 yrs/$28M (23-24) & 25 player option” Haniger only makes 14 mil AAV, where do you see 20 mil??
Joel P
At the bottom of the page where it says salaries and they break it down year by year.
Stevil
They didn’t lower payroll in 2024 with this, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with shaving off future committed salary while addressing your immediate needs by moving a player you wouldn’t even likely be able to use until after the break and who comes with questions because of the time he missed and type of injury & surgery he endured.
I’ve been as critical–if not more–than anyone of the Mariners spending habits, but there’s nothing to complain about here.
Travis’ Wood
It’s basic math. It was just reported incorrectly
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
Plenty to complain about. The M’s are going to be competing with the Angels for 3rd/4th place.
Rexhudler86
Astros haven’t added anything at this point, I would say second place in the west is up for grabs.
websoulsurfer
Mitch Haniger rf
3 years/$43.5M (2023-25)
3 years/$43.5M (2023-25)
signed by San Francisco as a free agent 12/6/22
$6M signing bonus
23:$5M, 24:$17M, 25:$15.5M
Haniger may opt out of contract after 2024 season
$1M assignment bonus with trade
Roll
@joel P
He is collecting 20 (baseball reference) but for aav / luxury tax purposes it is 17 and change (everyone reporting on) because he is not getting even payouts each year.
myaccount2
The M’s were a projected 87 win team on ZiPS before these trades that make them better. You’re just being a doomer to be a doomer, Bernandez.
LordD99
Incredible? Not incredible deal.
msfan76
How does this trade hurt the M’s, subtracting a pitcher that isn’t going to be available until mid season and even when available not sure I would wanna put him in the rotation and move woo or miller to the bullpen??
Stevil
Feel free to explain how keeping Ray would have benefited the Mariners this year.
He was due back in July at the earliest, he’ll likely be rusty, and he’s almost certainly not going to opt-out following the 2024 season, which means Seattle would be on the hook for another 50m. If he returns to form, great, but Seattle arguably shouldn’t need him at that point as they already have 5, solid starters.
Even if Haniger & DeSclafani were to never play, and assuming Haniger doesn’t opt-out of his final year, Seattle would save around 35m.
But in this deal, they may have addressed two needs by simply shifting committed salary elsewhere while subtracting future commitment.
There are plenty of things to complain about with the Mariner organization, but this deal isn’t one of them.
Chicken In Philly?
I wouldn’t want any part in Ray’s remaining $75 million as well. He was effective but streaky, and TJ pitchers sometimes struggle with command when they return. He already has had command issues in his past, so I wouldn’t trust him moving forward. I think it’s a pretty neutral trade for 2024, but it favors Seattle afterwards, especially if future free agent markets are better than this current one, which truly is weak.
websoulsurfer
For his actual payroll its $17 million. For AAV its $14.5 million. BR is adding $3 million of his signing bonus his 2023 and 2024 salaries since he can opt out after 2024.
slund24
Well they are adding to this years roster. Ray isn’t pitching before August and possibly even later.
marinersblue96
They are shedding and getting $ in return.
Rosenthal reporting Caballero to Rays for Luke Raley. I would love this move as an M’s fan.
GooseGoslinGuy
Does anyone follow up on Rosenthal’s “predictions”? Does every one of his reports turn out right? What % of his speculations are correct? Is he made privy to this information, or is it all surmise? Is he the Nostradamus of baseball?
Fever Pitch Guy
Acoss – Mariners made the biggest profit in MLB in 2022. They are all about the money.
LordTeaboBaggins
Acoss13- yes the Mariners need to shed payroll thanks to Stanton’s boneheaded decision to purchase Root Sports. See, not only have the Mariners put themselves totally on the hook for the acquisition and operational costs, they’re now also on the hook to pay out the tv contracts to the Kraken, Blazers, Jazz, etc.
And to think, delusional Ms fans think they’re going to get Snell or Soler lmao
websoulsurfer
The Mariners went from 71% ownership of Root Sports to 100%. They were already on the hook to pay the TV contracts to the Kraken, Blazers, etc… NBA and NHL are paid a pittance for local broadcasts. Out of market teams even less.
GoGreen
The division goes through Texas one way or the other. They’re punting so they can re tool and get back to contending on a high level.
Sheldon Bowen
Yes they are one of the few teams to screw up the tv money. Jerry is basically trying to manage with limited income also has to account for all the rising arbitration costs. That being said with all the youngers i feel they are close to the same as last year.
Jrod
Crawford
Garver
France
Dumper
Raley
Is a solid 6
Haniger, canzone should be a decent platoon
Second base and third base are kinda weak. Hopefully jerry squeezes something in. i would like one more bat to feel pretty good.
Pitching starting rotation is really nice
Castillo
Kirby
Gilbert all really nice.
Woo
Miller promising
Hancock
Berroa are ready for action
Bullpen should be really solid too.
GarryHarris
They are. You’re not privy to the long game. This is, after all, Dipoto.
kpak76
Are they really selling here? Ray wont be ready until at least the All-Star break. There is a great chance he wont be ready even then. Plus he will exercise his option at the end of 2024 and the Mariners would have been on the hook for 2 more years of him at 26 million per year. Do you trust he would be worth 26 million after his injury history with Seattle?
Seattle shipped off broken goods for 2 pieces that has a high injury history. At least they will be ready by spring training though. All the trade to the Rays and the Mariners have had the best offseason so far by a long shot in the AL west. Did they close the gap however?
top jimmy
Aren’t they one of the teams that lost their TV money?
Sheldon Bowen
They own the channel they broadcast on. Xfinity moved the channel to a special subscription sports package that costs 20 dollars a month. Xfinity is the biggest provider in northwest. Owners basically are cutting payroll cause they are not smart. Jerry has at least made a nice minor league system and done as well as he could while having to cut payroll significantly since he started here.
ryrockak
The Mariners owners are covering the costs to acquire ROOT Sports. It’s going to cost them money
marinersblue96
@ryrockak M’s already own 60% of ROOT.
Primitive Screwhead
Mariners ownership group owns 100% of ROOT.
Baseball dude
The mariners already own 71 percent Root, and you’re right, they now need money for the remainder and operating expenses. Of course Stanton and the rest of the owners could have ponied up some from their huge profits over the last few years. A better product brings in more subscribers, but they don’t see it that way, sadly!!
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
They were forced to take on the other 29%, which led to them having to pivot in their offseason plan.
stymeedone
Business 101:
Payroll is a percentage of revenue. Revenue lowers, payroll will also lower. Pretty simple. People cutting the cord means fewer subscriptions. The revenues generated by the TV network were less than the break even amount, causing bankruptcy. The RSN was paying out more than they were making. The team will be collecting less than the amount they were supposed to be paid by RSN, so payroll is limited.
websoulsurfer
The Mariners were not PAID by Root Sports. They already owned 71% of the network. Now they own 100% and it didn’t cost them anything to take it over.
All Warner Bros Discovery ever did was provide operational support, something that MLB will now handle in partnership with the Mariners.
websoulsurfer
NOT obviously. They partnered with MLB for the production and have incurred no additional costs. ALL WBD did was operational support for production.
McGrundle
Seriously, what is going on? It’s like a 12 year old playing franchise mode on MLB the Show.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Ms just dumped 73 million owed to a guy who had TJ and flexor tendon surgery and even got some pieces back – I give Ms an A on the deal. The only reason they don’t get an A+ is because Haniger is also oft-injured. Giants have money to risk, but they would have done better to sign a healthy free agent — the 2021 Robbie Ray is long gone. I’ll give the Giants a C+.
BrianStrowman9
@Manny
This. Ray is an expensive gamble. Pitchers have been expensive this off-season but that’s still a fat contract. The M’s pitching is in good shape without him. Idk what they’ll get out of Haniger but they do need something in LF
Assuming we’ll see 2021 Robbie Ray again is a big stretch.
Rexhudler86
Doesn’t hurt to see if he has something left, if he bounces back next year he can get a decent return. Maybe even now sale got a decent prospect, and he has been injured for three years. Giants was a move for next year, ms got something for this year and cut some salary relief down the road.
Pete'sView
And, perhaps, he performs well in the second half of 2024, but not enough to get $25M on the open market in 2025. If so, perhaps he stays with the Giants and excels.
websoulsurfer
How many pitchers can you name that came off TJ and performed well right out of the chute?
GooseGoslinGuy
Agreed. Ray as a Cy Young winner was an outlier, and now that he is rebounding from injury, God knows what he will give you. And he’s 32. Giants rolling the dice but he won’t even be ready till mid-season if then.
californiamike18
Oh I don’t know about that…Mitch Haniger has played 118 games combined the last two years and is always hurt. Desclafani has pitched a combined 118 innings in the last two years and he too is always hurt…The Giants have tons of money to spend…They can afford a risk like this…Plus with the way guys bounce back from TJ surgeries these days there’s a good chance he will bounce fully back…Don’t need Ray of 2021…Will take the Ray of 2022 and his 3.71 Era…This is a good risk move for the Giants…
BrianStrowman9
2/50 for a 3.71 ERA seems expensive even in the current market.
Rexhudler86
Giants have money, but players aren’t biting. Also that is zaidi move spare parts for a two year deal for a former Cy young pitcher it’s pretty much like getting sale without giving up a prospect
FullMontilla
If only Ray was healthy enough to pitch. Clever trade projects are fine to put in the bank, but we need something more for opening day. Hard to get excited about Lee when we know very little about him, other than he was willing to sign with the Giants. Slap/gap, high average hitter? IF his skills translate to the ML, who’s going to drive him in on a regular basis?
The Giant’s projected starting line-up, as it is today, SUUUUCKSSS…
Pete'sView
FullMontilla —
Agreed that Ray won’t help us until mid-season (if that), but I’ve got to disagree about Lee. Once he gets acclimated I think he’ll be terrific and exactly what the Giants have been lacking for years.
But your other comment stands: Farhan has more to do—both with the starting rotation and the lineup.
Pete'sView
californiamike18
I don’t know why people blame Haniger for Flaherty breaking his arm.
websoulsurfer
The most likely scenario for Lee is he is another Kim. He starts playing well in his 2nd season.
SeibuLionsNPB
@Mannybeingmvp how do we know that they haven’t tried to sign free agents and been unlucky to sign any of their targets. Perhaps trading was their best or only option. To my knowledge trades are easier to make if the players can’t veto the deal. Free agency also has a player make their next contract choice based on where they would prefer to play.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Fair statement. Would Sonny Gray have chose St. Louis over SF for even money? Would Seth Lugo has chose Kansas City over SF for even money? Who knows? But usually – not always – a few extra million is enough to do the trick.
The other reason that I like this deal is that it probably means the Ms are keeping their young healthy starting pitching. Better to have traded Ray then one of the young talented starters.
SeibuLionsNPB
Yes some players may just take the extra money, but it seems that they just leverage other offers to get the deal they want for a team they prefer. See Yamamoto and Ohtani this off-season. Even Sale said he waived his no trade because he grew up a Braves fan and location was important because he would spend more time with his family in Florida.
I also agree that it was best to not trade their young pitching prospects and getting out from under the ray contract is probably smart. Disco is a decent pitcher to have to eat innings if he is healthy. The one year commitment also is a plus.
case
F for the Giants. If Ray is any good he can immediately opt out. If he really is done then the Giants take on an albatross contract. No idea why the Giants front office is so into those opt out contracts.
For Love of the Game
Not such an easy call. The winner of the trade will be the team with the healthy player out of that trio. It might be no one, in which case the M’s win by dumping multiple years of salary.
Primitive Screwhead
Stanton has constrained the payroll because he’s a lying PoS who should sell the team. Dipoto is scrambling to not field an embarrassment of a team.
Deleted Userr
BTV says the M’s win this trade pretty handily. And if Ray rebounds in 2024 he can opt out, which would make it even better for them. They could even bring him back, if they want.
myaccount2
Ray reportedly isn’t going to be ramped up until after the all star break, so why not take this gamble? DeSclafani isn’t bad and Haniger is a positive dice roll. If he stays healthy, we know he can hit at T-Mo.
Smacky
@marinersblue96 It’s their unstable tv contract situation. They know are actually paying for it now that they own it – mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/mariners-to-take-100-pe…
D-Nice
I actually like it for Seattle. Especially if Haniger and DeSclafani can do what they’re capable of. This gives Seattle 6 starters now so I wonder if they have something else planned. Definitely better than a half season of Ray, IMHO.
C Us Sink
They have cheap ownership, and Jerry’s hands are tied with a limited budget.
Plugnplay
Trader Jerry at it again. He trades more than fantasy baseball team owners.
Yankee Clipper
Wouldn’t the Ms have been better off signing Mitch outright and then trading Ray for additional personnel in this pitching – needy market?
Pete'sView
Clipper — MItch was contracted to play for the Giants in 2024. THey didn’t want to wait till next year (2025).
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, didn’t the Giants sign him this offseason though? Maybe I’m thinking of someone else…
Pete'sView
Clip — Yeah, you must be thinking of someone else. Giants signed Haniger to a two-year $28M contract (with a 2025 player option). Lat season was his first with the Giants and unfortunately Flaherty broke Mitch’s arm.
Yankee Clipper
Oh that’s right! Duh, I’m such a dummy…. My bad Pete, thanks for keeping me straight man!
Pete'sView
Clip — No, “dummy” opprobrium necessary. You should see how I do on “The Grid.”
myaccount2
@Yankee Clipper- In hindsight, absolutely; however, it seemed Dipoto wanted stability and thought he was getting an impact bat who could stay healthy in Teoscar. Once he was added, there was no room for Haniger, given the belief in Kelenic. Now, Dipoto must think it’s worth taking the gamble on him to offload Ray’s contract.
Yankee Clipper
Do you think it’s worth that gamble, my account? That’s a tough call: on one hand, pitching is at a premium; on the other, a healthy Haniger is a really good bat …. Could Jerry be setting up to pursue one of the FA pitchers?
slider32
Here comes Snell!
Very Barry
The new economics of baseball. TV money is a question mark.
websoulsurfer
Not for the Mariners. They own their network. They have long term deals with the carriers.
Rob Schumann
DiPoto seems to trade just to trade. He didn’t resign Haniger because he was oft injured but then traded a lefty #2 on an affordable contract for Haniger after a down season full of injuries? I bet Dave Stewart is even scratching his head at that one. DeScalfini is a decent throw in but if he can’t get back on track $12m is an expensive swingman. I must be missing something here. Surely Ray would bring back more from a team like the Orioles.
marinersblue96
Ray is not a #2 on the M’s at best he was #4 behind Castillo, Gilbert, and Kirby.
I don’t think any team viewed him as a #2 anymore. 32 coming off TJ, not available for 60% of the season, and with an opt out if he does perform well (that is a BIG IF) and if he doesn’t bounce back then the team is on the hook for $50 million and 2 years
BaseballisLife
Great deal for the Mariners. Salary nuetral in 2024. After that they are off the hook for Ray’s salary. Ray won’t pitch until mid-July at the earliest and will struggle for a few months at first like practically everyone does after that injury.
In return they get a guy they know well and a starting pitcher with an up and down career due to injuries. Both players will be off the books after 2024.
San Francisco gets a guy that hope will be able to help them compete in 2025.
IndianaBraves85
Poor Mitch can’t get away from Seattle. He had his fair share of injuries up there if I remember correctly.
atuck_sfg
He was injured most of the season in SF too unfortunately.
MortDingle
just over 200 AB, I think
ElDo0derino
Reminds me of Kendrys Morales.
Rob Schumann
Morales’ biggest mistake was having Boras as his agent. Him and Stephen Drew never seemed to recover from that missed half season.
O'sSayCanYouSee
For reals??!!?!
Feels kinda wife swappy…
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Couple swapping is all the rage in the northwest these days
bobsugar84
I could never swap my wife and let others be with her! But I could be with other wives. That seems fair.
BPax
LOL!
agnes gooch
Jerry and Farhan are very cozy with eachother
scottn59c
lol!
champoronipizza
Welcome back Mitch.
Pete'sView
Yeah, Mariners are lucky. As a Giants fan I wanted to see a healthy Hanniger in the lineup. After Flaherty broke Mitch’s arm, it wasn’t to be.
RyanD44
I know the Mariners have a lot of pitching depth, but Ray was ace-material before TJS.. he could very re-gain his form.
Desclafani and Haniger are hurt more than they are healthy. I don’t understand this.
marinersblue96
More purging of salary. I love Mitch but he just can’t stay healthy. He needs to DH only and the M’s just signed a DH only player.
myaccount2
It’s not salary purging, this is cash neutral.
ScoBoe
Look beyond 2024…. It’s a salary dump 25,26..
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
I guess they are just dumping his salary, I think Ray still has plenty of upside too but I’m guessing they don’t like what they have seen so far.
Orangejedi23
I agree. Giants just got Ray for magic beans.
spudchukar
And money!
D-Nice
Seattle got the money, Spud. 6 million.
hoof hearted
Ryan- I think JD thinks the upside of casillo, gilbert, kirby to lead this rotation is more promising. Maybe looking at this to extend gilbert and Kirby. This is not the kinda move M’s fan are wanting to see. Anxiety prescript are up in the PNW; waiting for M”s big move.
-if mitch is healthy-this is good. We love Mitch in Sea
IF Anthony is healthy….he was solid/decent in ’19 and ’21
Candy Maldonado
Being kinda generous with your read of Ray. He has one all star caliber season and one ace season in his entire career at age 32. Outside of those two seasons, he averages like 1.5 WAR per 200 innings. Definition of mid-rotation arm, in his 30s, with health concerns. There’s a *glimmer* of hope he can capture more, but I doubt even the Giants are expecting it.
Joel P
Yeah Mariners signed him coming off a great year. He didn’t repeat that year and now he’s hurt. That’s a bad contract all day.
Murphy NFLD
Funny the jays got him for a nobody LH relif pitcher that the snakes later waived and the jays then picked him back up. So the jays fot ray for free and his 2 best seasons were pitching with them. Im a littlw biased but i really think there is somethinf to be said of pete walker, the pitching coach, and his ability to get more out of alot of players. There was also tanner roark the other way but he has way more positives when it comes to pitcher proformance
gomer33
His CY season for sure, not so sure about his 20 innings in 2020 being his second best though.
Jplane
I used to call him Roller Coaster Ray during his up and down seasons in AZ.
good vibes only
Ray’s contract is very bad. His stuff was seriously declining even before the injury. There is zero guarantee he comes back in 2024 at all or even close to his prior levels. Its much more likely to be a washed player for washed player trade
luvochka
This probably was as much about cleaning up the roster as anything for the Giants. A lot of bad moves were made, getting anything is better than DFAing.
JT70
Ray has two seasons as an “ace level pitcher” and multiple other seasons that have him more as a like #2 or high upside #3. He also either doesn’t have a spot in the rotation or is blocking one of their prospects. Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller, Woo, and Hancock all need a spot. There’s no such thing as too much depth when it comes to starting pitchers but given what the M’s already have Ray at $20m is too expensive to be a veteran innings eater and they are better off moving him for depth elsewhere.
slund24
Ray doesn’t add to pitching depth until 2025 though
Joel P
Ray comes back midseason from what I have read.
slund24
August at the earliest is what was always reported.
Candy Maldonado
Outside of those two seasons, he has only *one* season where he’s even broken 2 bWAR, which is the effective cutoff for “average.” All the other healthy years he’s sitting around 1-1.5, which would be a pretty mediocre #2 starter. He’s gotten a lot of reputation miles out of those two mega seasons, but being over 30 with big health concerns and a big contract makes for a hefty gamble for any acquiring party.
BrianStrowman9
He’s had a few seasons where he’s a #4-5. HR’s have been a big issue in his career. SF is a good park to limit that but this is a big gamble.
Habitual Truth Teller
Ray is owed 23 mill this year, 25 mill in 25 and 25 mill in 26. Has a player opt out after 24 but heading into free agency at 33 he probably opts in.
Haniger is owed 17 mill this year and player option for 15 mill next year
Desclafani is on a 1 year 12 mill deal.
So Mariners are reducing long term payroll
Giants are hoping for a solid rotation piece for 3 years
GooseGoslinGuy
These are the kind of numbers that make me think maybe the Nationals aren’t so dumb sitting on their hands and waiting for prospects to develop. Spending $25M on washed-up and/or injured and/or mediocre players seems not smart. You’d be better off spending much less on guys that can get you 71 wins than spending a holy bundle on guys that get you 79. Children are starving in Africa, and Anthony Desclafani (4.88 ERA) will earn $12M in 2024. (I know, it’s the market.)
Longtimecoming
Or Ray who isn’t likely to pitch until August, may never regain his form and if he does, may opt out at end of 2024 anyway.
De projects to pitch more innings as of right now.
Seem reasonable to me.
D-Nice
Those two doing what they’re capable of is way better than a half season of Ray, IMHO. And this gives them 6 starters so I wonder if they’re up to something else.
Pete'sView
Hanniger had his arm broken by a pitch. You can’t blame him for that.
Tigers3232
Hanger is not injury prone though. The guy has just had some incredibly bad luck.
CaseyAbell
Didn’t see this coming. The Giants are looking for pitchers everywhere and every way.
RunDMC
I don’t get it though, Ray had TJ on 5/3/23 and it typically takes most 16 months (Nov ’24 — after WS) to get back and ~24 months to be 100%. Ray has 25M AAV through ’26 (with an opt out after ’25).
Joel P
I don’t believe 16 months is accurate usually more like 14 and that would be July.
Skruf
Maybe he’s been talking to Aaron Rodgers and he’ll be ready for Opening Day!! lol
RunDMC
@Joel P – My 16-month date is incorrect, his return would be Sept ’24.
I hadn’t seen the recovery being 14 months, especially for an aged 30+ pitcher like Ray. 30 y/o Chris Sale had it on 3/20/2020 and his return was on 8/14/2021 (almost 17 months). I’d see something similar to Ray at 32 y/o, but if they can get him out there in 14 — not my arm.
Lanidrac
There are also many cases of just 12-month recoveries for pitchers.
Although, yes, it usually takes another half a year or longer to get back to 100% performance.
RunDMC
Just curious, but can you name a few? I don’t follow recovery times enough.
RunDMC
I had a little time and went down the wormhole and saw some cases, mostly focusing on more recent (2020-2022), when there’s more likely been a return date established (and 2020 pandemic closures may not have altered their rehab), and all were undergoing TJ for the 1st time (as opposed to the 2nd TJ, when there’s typically a quicker return):
Joey Lucchesi: ~23 mo
Ken Giles: ~22 mo
Kenta Maeda: ~19 mo
Jalen Beeks: ~19 mo
Noah Syndergaard: ~19 mo
Justin Verlander: ~19 mo
Luis Severino: ~17 mo
Chris Devenski: ~17 mo
Mike Clevinger: ~17 mo
Chris Sale: ~17 mo
Andres Munoz: ~17 mo
John Means: ~14.5 mo
Dustin May: ~13 mo (missed time in 5/23 since TJ with forearm injury)
Zack Britton: ~12 mo (missed time within a ’22 week of return with shoulder injury, hasn’t pitched since)
Andrew Kittredge: ~11 mo
websoulsurfer
12-18 months is the range. Realistically and according to the Mariners before this trade the earliest he is back is July after the ASB.
unpaidobserver
Middling pitchers that are as likely to have mediocre as positive results.
GooseGoslinGuy
Have they tried Trevor Bauer?
ZitoDidRoidsTooObviously
I’m actually OK with that. Perfect place to land, play the Dodgers a bunch
D-Nice
Ray won’t be back until the second half so it’s weird for sure.
showmebb
Don’t know what to make of this one.
Enrico Pallazzo
Agreed. Pretty strange for both sides
thegiantshark
It’s almost like a do-over of a trade from both sides, walking back the moves they made that didn’t work.
From the Giants side they have a gluttony of mediocre pitchers and mediocre OFs. While Ray is injured, he’s proven to be above mediocre and they needed to remove the logjam.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
Interesting, I like the Giants exploring the upside of Ray, it looks like both teams are just swapping salaries though, one short term, one long term
LDilbert
How much money moves in this deal for the mariners? Nice dump of Rays salary! He was terrible in the playoffs for us
Hammerin' Hank
Wow, you only judge players based off of what they do in the playoffs? The Giants are clear winners here, getting the most valuable player in the deal.
Joel P
The Giants are getting a guy who is hurt with a giant contract.
The Mariners are getting two middling players.
I don’t think either team should be too excited here.
GooseGoslinGuy
Well, a healthy Haniger IS capable of putting up very productive numbers. He has done it twice. Although it is hard to believe that he is already 33.
LDilbert
Not normally but it was a an epic collapse. Watch game one 9th inning alds Astros/mariners. Mariners were rollin into he came in. Changed the whole series.
Wildcard game #2 vs jays
2022 all season he wasn’t great.
My take is also relative to his salary and mariners payroll.
Astros_fan_in_Aus
Yordan Alvarez says Hi
ayrbhoy
LDilbert- Ray came in for a Left on Left matchup vs Y Alvarez. One of THE best hitters in MLB who can convert hits off the end of his bat into HR’s into the Crawford Boxes. Andres Muñoz coming in to protect a 4 Run lead (7-3) in the 8th inn deserves just as much blame if not more than Robbie Ray in that game.
The (many) people who say Robbie was garbage in 2022 are conveniently forgetting that the M’s prob dont make the Playoffs w/o Robbies dominant stretch in the middle of that season. Robbie introduced a 3rd pitch over that Summer. Seattle then owned the best W/L record in MLB over a 2 month period during Robbies dominant Run.
LDilbert
I do remember Robbie struggled early in the year, servais discussed throwing the slider more. Robbie made the change and was better for 4-5 starts. Then teams started getting to him again late in the year.
It’s been a year since I seen him pitch but but I think it was location on his pitches. Walking guys then hitting to much of the plate and getting hit.
LDilbert
I would be fine with keeping Robbie if our payroll was 180-220m but not the way things are.
Not that I hate the guy. Seattle fans love a redemption story more than most.
ayrbhoy
L Dilbert – from June 12 until Sept 3 Robby Ray had 14 Quality Starts out of his 16 outings
He only had 2 bad outings over that stretch of nearly 3 months, and those were against HOU.
In those 14 QS’s he had at least 6-7 outings of 1 ER or fewer. People forget how Robbie was revitalized after George Kirby showed him his cutter grip. Before that he was just a 2 pitch pitcher – FB up paired with a nasty back foot slider. That cut FB appeared to come in at the hips of LH hitters then it darted in for a strike. It was a game changing pitch for him. 14 Quality Starts out of 16 straight is a dominant stretch. At a time when the team was chasing a playoff spot.
Yet still Mariners fans trashed him, and they will continue to.
ayrbhoy
I just went back to look at 2022 Game Logs for Robbie Ray.
In that dominant stretch from June 12 to Sept 3 he had 10 starts of giving up just 1R or fewer. Not 6-7 starts, he had TEN! 4 shutouts and 6 starts of one run ball. That cut FB was a revelation.
LDilbert
Great work getting that info, you prove a strong point. That’s a pretty good stretch and for nearly 3 months.
I think it was the first 2 months in 2022 had me uneasy. And it was repetitively bad until servais talked to him to try something different. I think there was like 3 really bad games in a row. And then a few before that.
What might’ve happened is Kirby was lights out near the end of the season and in the playoffs it overshadowed Robbie Ray. And Castillo was just picked up and pitching strong and Gilbert was finding success.
If not for Kirby innings limit I would’ve considered him over Robbie ray even in his rookie year to pitch to Toronto. I think you would’ve taken Kirby in the playoffs over Robbie too at the time.
That whole Astros playoff game one has those Russell Wilson interception in the Super Bowl vibes to me unfortunately. Probably many others, he’s a veteran and took it.
thegiantshark
Playoffs. I remember those, I think…
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I hope this means rhe Giants are out on Shota. Come on Jed ask the messenger boy Tom Ricketts to ask Papa Joe Ricketts to get permission to spend money.
Or just grow a pair sign Shota and Belli. Then f-it throw money at Josh Hader too. Make Alzolay your 8th inning man.
acoss13
Considering how much money they make off of Wrigleyville, Cubs have the money to get Imanaga. Jed is just playing chicken to drive the price down on these guys.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Yeah I know. I’m not in “panic mode” yet but they need to do something. Jed has less than a week to sign someone. Cubs-Con is next weekend. People are gonna boo the scheisse out of jed and Tom for not spending money.
tedtheodorelogan
Considering Ray won’t be back able to pitch right away, I doubt they are out on anyone.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Insert any cussing rant here (I’m thinking, Jay’s rant from Dogma)
acoss13
Logjammer,
Jed and Tom are asking to get booed at the convention. Can’t come into the offseason making big promises of being competitive and aiming to make the playoffs with no additions, especially with money being available. Definitely want Imanaga and Bellinger, Hader too, eff it there’s money.
PutPeteinthehall
Imanaga will sign with cubs in next few days if he hasn’t already. Giants grabbed Ray knowing this. With Borass it’s just a waiting game. If he has to take less years for Bellinger it will be with Chicago.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Honestly if 1. I had the money and could drive I would go to the cubs convention
2. It’s way too cold
3. I hope even if they sign someone they’re still booed.
acoss13
They probably will get booed regardless of who they sign. I know I would if I could be there. The stupid Marquee channel sucks. I can only listen to the games on mlb subscription, which I hate the blackout games as it is, and I’m not adding another subscription to watch Cubs games. Fubi is the service I believe and I don’t care for rest of the sports on there so that has zero value for me. My apologies for this little rant lol
Pete'sView
Logjammer D”Baggagecling —
Giants not out on Shota unless they sign Snell or Montgomery.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I didn’t know Robbie Ray was hurt when I initially posted that comment.
acoss13
Pete,
As a Cubs fan, I hope your Giants sign Snell. He’d be much better in that ballpark, even if Wrigley is pitcher friendly early on the spring.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I think I would rather have Shota over Snell. Winding blowing out at Wrigley Snell would get shelled
BrianStrowman9
Shota has HR issues. Wind blowing out at Wrigley would crush him.
oldgfan
Let’s get that stove heated back up.
chavac
Is Dipoto OK?
hoof hearted
He could be making moves like Anthopouos in ATL. AA’s is making crazy moves in ATL
User 1404051815
I’ll believe in their crazy moves when they can get past the Phillies in the playoffs
CaseyAbell
Jerry just had to scratch that trading itch.
Travis’ Wood
Um you realize Haniger and Desclafani should easily provide more value than Ray in 2024 for the exact same salary and then Seattle swaps out 2/50 owed to Ray for 1/15 owed to Haniger…. This is an incredible trade for Seattle
agnes gooch
Hey Travis, you watch many Giants games last season? Don’t be so sure of that production. This isn’t a trade where anyone can pick a “winner” of the trade until a year or two has passed to revisit it. And even then it may prove good or neutral for both sides. As a Giants fan, I am ecstatic to clear the the roster space. I wish the best for Disco and Hanny and Ray, I hope it’s a win win for both teams
Travis’ Wood
You must be forgetting that Ray is out for most if not all of 2024. By default the other 2 will almost certainly provide more value. Then you’re swapping 2/50 owed to Ray for 1/15 owed to Haniger. Clear win for Seattle. Of course it could end up going either way which is why analyzing trades in hindsight is dumb…. It’s about analyzing processes and seattles process here us strong. San Fran, not so much
geg42
Don’t forget that the net value of Disco and Haninger could be negative
Travis’ Wood
Very unlikely
mab51357
Desclafani will be hurt after a couple outings. And if Haniger gets hurt at some point (pretty likely) then it doesn’t work too well. This said it’s a guarantee that Ray is hurt for most of the season. As a Giants fan I don’t like the trade but for anyone to say the M’s got the best of this trade I just don’t see it. This is definitely a “wait until later” to see how all 3 players pan out. Haniger never looked right or comfortable at the plate. Then his season got screwed by hbp. Felt bad for him. Good teammate and wasn’t his fault some pitcher can’t get anywhere near the strike zone. Desclafani is also a good teammate. I hope both teams have success with this trade.
mab51357
Very possible.
mab51357
I wouldn’t say that. It could also be very likely. Wait and see.
Rexhudler86
It essentially 2/50 next year for a former Cy young pitcher, looking like the giants realize they can’t sign any free agents and they get something for next year.
hoof hearted
that is freaky- oh, no; 1 of the Sea SP is getting moved 🙁
slund24
Yeah, the one that is injured and expected to miss most or all of the season.
hoof hearted
ok, young SP
manfraud
What an injury swap
vaderzim
Now that’s more like it.
PutPeteinthehall
M’s save 30m and fill two holes. Let’s if they send money to SF.
Not a clever name
Which hole does Haniger fill? The IL?
Not a clever name
And as far Disco for Ray, I like Dosco I really do, since he was a rookie with the reds, but he is not a one or a two so if your looking for an ACE you just got a 3 or 4 that can’t stay healthy and should never play against teams from LA.
JT70
They don’t need DeScalfani to be an ace. They have Castillo, Kirby, and Gilbert. Miller, Woo, and Hancock to fill out the rotation…DeScalfani probably serves as a 7th starting pitcher to eat innings and be an injury replacement when guys inevitably get hurt or need a rest.
agnes gooch
Disco was doing great last season until he dropped a piano bench on his toe and then fell off a cliff. Should be healthy now but who knows
hoof hearted
DeScalfani is the new Tommy malone this year?
thegiantshark
Except he will HATE that role and will be a red-ass about it. He is a good swing guy but he and Wood were those guys for SF and constantly complained about it
PutPeteinthehall
Ops+ 108 to 139 every year he played with the M’s. Productive if healthy. Ray by the way isn’t . Was a bad contract given out after a probable once in a career season. Lucky to get out of it.
Joel P
This actually raises the Mariners payroll by 9 million in 2024. It’s an interesting deal yes let’s see if money is exchanged.
Hammerin' Hank
DeSclafani isn’t filling any holes, unless they’re in need of a mop-up man for blowouts.
hoof hearted
maybe DeScalfani is going to the TB Rays with Caballero. TB maximizes DeScalfani’ss abilitys and he places top in CY voting
Yoki
So, the Giants are taking on just about $35 million extra to bank on the upside of Robbie Ray being a CY caliber, and only trading Mitch Haniger and Anthony DeSclafani?
And they also opened up another rotation spot, plus they solved the OF logjam?
Yeah,they won this trade.
D-Nice
Seattle actually GOT 6 million
whacamoley
With the way things are going, I can see that trade with the Rays now:
“ Mariners to trade Julio Rodriguez to Rays for a PTBNL “
At this point might as well…
Dotnet22
Sky is falling in Seattle.
D-Nice
The sky falls approximately 250 days a year in Washington lol
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
In second trade, Mariners would acquire outfielder Luke Raley from the Rays for infielder José Caballero, sources tell @TheAthletic. Deal not yet complete.
Per Ken Rosenthal
marinersblue96
If true, I would love that.
Madbummer
I think all the wander drama has the Rays in a tear down mode…Glasnow,Margo and now Raley traded for prospects. You can’t tell me they are in it to win it in 2024. Might as well trade Brandon Lowe while they’re at it. The M’s are gonna love Raley.
iverbure
Yeah this year is the only time the rays have traded high salary players for prospects. The only time…
hiflew
God bless Jerry DiPoto for being himself. He is my favorite GM in the game.
Baseball_dude
Umm ok
FanOfTheUmpires
Anyone remember Robinson Cano??
bloomquist4hof
No, inform us, who was this Cano person
GarryHarris
Was Cano signed by Dipoto?
TAKERDBACKS
Blake snell is coming
Dotnet22
I think so too.
TAKERDBACKS
Yeah it makes sense. he loves Seattle.
James Midway
That’s what she said
Dotnet22
M’s are cleaning payroll for Snell.
hoof hearted
I buy tickets to see that
Hey, lets start a go-fung me; to get Snell
This one belongs to the Reds
Everybody go-fung tonight!
hoof hearted
proof reading- not one of my strengths
go-fund
wang-chung tonight
Pete'sView
I like your original better.
LordTeaboBaggins
No. They’re not. They’re clearing payroll so Stanton can purchase Root Sports and pay the Kraken, Blazers, and Jazz the TV contract money that the Mariners are now on the hook for
Joel P
What does this trade accomplish?
Giants get a starter mid season with upside.
Mariners get an outfielder they need and rotation depth which they could also use.
I guess it makes some sense.
bag o ballz
on the G side I have to think it is roster space and the OF logjam. maybe it means a signing coming on the giant’s side?
Joel P
Yeah I thought that too perhaps this opens things up for the Giants to add another outfielder.
benhen77
Twins couldn’t have gotten this done with a package around Kepler?
C’mon.
Good trade Giants
Travis’ Wood
Why on earth would the twins want to take on $73 mil owed to a pitcher coming off TJ who struggled before getting hurt??
benhen77
He pitched 3 whole innings last year, solid in 22, Cy Young in 22. 73 mil is mid-rotation money in today’s game.
Travis’ Wood
You’re out of your mind lol
thecrocusesareinbloom
saw this notification and laughed out loud. oh, jerry…
Datashark
so Mitch got to enjoy SF primarily on injured list. At least SF is moving to improve roster but they lack hitting maybe this is an area they that they are looking to fill with someone like JD Martinez and hopefully more than just 1 bat
scottn59c
Opens up the possibility for Bellinger, too.
timmygee
Always liked Mitch and am happy to have his great attitude and spirit back…,.. in the dugout. Wasn’t happy about trading him away even though he was always getting hurt. Hopefully he is doing some awesome workouts so he can stay off the injury list. What’s with Jerry and Mitch’s? Now we have a pair
TMQ
Seattle didn’t trade him away though. So not sure what you’re talking about?
agnes gooch
I love you Zaidi!!!!
Snellzilla #7
Aaaaand, there it is. The confessed undying love for Farhan Zaidi. It’s really a bit like Stockholm syndrome.
Snellzilla #7
And that’s why an objective opinion about Farhan Zaidi or the Giants is impossible from this person. Sometimes people allow emotion to cloud judgement.
hoof hearted
side story: Haniger was the one who convinced Ray to sign with Sea. Now they get traded for each other.
jabronieramone
Dipoto gonna Dipoto
Champ world champion Texas Rangers
Snell to Seattle $190 million
bag o ballz
interesting – seems like it makes sense on the giants side for roster reasons and opens up the logjam in the outfield a bit. I think in the aggregate on the G side you are giving up an under performing starter and OF for an under performing starter.
lloyd_christmas
We’re gettin HOT
wvsteve
Why would the rays do that?
NoPlanB
Cleared $$$ to sign Snell.
Wrian Washman
Farhan Zaidi is a joke
Big whiffa
I’ve been giving him the benefit of the doubt for a while. Not after this off season though. That international signing and this trade and lack of free agent signings are all bad signs on his part. It may be time
luvochka
I am not sure he is a “joke” but it is frustrating. Just imagine what would be happening if the Giants had Dombrowski or Anthopolous as GMs, people would be getting traded, people would be getting signed. The Giants are just incredibly conservative with their roster moves.
DroppedThirdStrike
Dombrowski and Anthopolous have more pieces to move. Some of SFs farm has been slow to develop, or, like Bart, not developed at all. He could be moving pieces, shopping either Bailey or Bart, signing a couple mid tier FAs, and be in great shape with modest payroll and be looking at maybe 87 wins. Instead he’s stuck in a rut with a mediocre team and no star players. If his farm doesn’t develop 12 months from now, it’s a drafting situation or a player development situation. Either way it falls on him.
agnes gooch
Patty Bails is going nowhere. He’s a Giant cornerstone. Only bummer is he got concussed and wasn’t right after that but hopefully he’s healed this winter.
Zaidi inherited a barren farm from the previous two regimes. Not all of his draft picks have been good, but every GM/president has some bad ones. The draft is a crap shoot. But the farm is starting to produce now. We saw glimpses last season. More on the way
Snellzilla #7
Bailey’s not a ‘cornerstone’. He’s a young, relatively unproven player, who led all MLB catchers in errors last year in only 3/4 of the games, and proved that he didn’t have the stamina to last the whole year. (Hopefully he shows up conditioned better this year.) As well as striking out at a higher rate than Bart, with less power potential. That’s hardly a franchise cornerstone. And, btw a couple of draft picks from the last regime are still part of the team and could still develop into stars.
Also Farhan is not a GM/POBO. Pete Putila is the GM. And would probably be a better POBO, imo.
thefaithfulfriar
…and on the mound for the Mariners is the native son from Shoreline Blake Snellzilla…
stymeedone
Why would Seattle add another starter? Is that really their priority?
Muller_11
For me, Robbie Ray’s time with the Mariners reminds me of Cliff Lee’s
Short and unsuccessful
JoeBrady
I don’t get this.
Seattle gets Haniger and DeSclfani for a combined $47,5M.
Giants get 2.5 seasons of Ray for $73M.
So the SFG paid $25,5M for 2.5 seasons of Ray’s production less Haniger and Sclani’ production. I guess maybe there is some balance to this, since they need Haniger more than Ray, but it feels like they should’ve just offered to pay down half of Ray’s salary and gotten a prospect in return.
norcalblue
Ray has an opt out at the end of 2024 IF he comes back and performs well!
Simm
Good chance it’s less than 2.5 years of ray since he may not even pitch more the a 10-15 innings this year. Then the giants are paying 73m for about 2 seasons of ray coming back from surgery and didn’t look at ll great the season before.
This feels like a really good trade the the mariners even if both guys they got back don’t do much.
Salzilla
I’ve always been a Ray fan so I dig this trade for San Fran. He gets bad rap, but even in some “bad” years, dude k’s a ton of guys. He may be rehabbing most of the year, but chances are he doesn’t opt out and the Giants have an Ace- for two years. Sure they gave up two major leaguers, but no offense to either, but they aren’t on Ray’s level. Good bet here for SFG.
Simm
Chances are he doesn’t opt out at the giants are Payinf 73m for 2 years of more mid then ace level pitcher.
Pete'sView
TBD
bloomquist4hof
I could see him regaining form, assuming he has one of those less walk prone years, but give his age something more like #4/5 over 25/26 seems a higher probability.
HalosHeavenJJ
There have been some pretty bizarre trades this offseason but this one takes the cake.
hoof hearted
right along with AA in ATL. weird stuff AA has done.
Ma4170
A couple months ago, I said that Ray could be traded and was told i was crazy. Guess not… there’s always a match somewhere to be made.
If ray and haniger can get and stay healthy, both can be very valuable. Both sides hoping for some good fortune.
Bookbook
I like it for Seattle. I hope this means the M’s extend Gilbert with the Ray money.
Balk
The Giants sent 3 mill to offset and make the trade more balanced. So there’s no huge advantage
Bookbook
That’s true for 2024, but not paying for Ray in 25 and 26 might mean the M’s can pony up for Gilbert
Snellzilla #7
Giants sent 6 mill
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
No chance. They’ll do the same thing they just did with Kirby, Gilbert and Castillo.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Always seemed like Seattle signing Robbie Ray was a public relations effort to show they were spending on big ticket players, but that he wasn’t really the right piece for the Mariners.
Also funny they got back Haniger, a favorite in Seattle.
Seems like destinies were fulfilled here- guys who were or were not meant to be on these two clubs got swapped and the baseball universe was slightly re-balanced or whatever.
C Us Sink
Sort of agree with you, but I think Ray was messing around too much with learning the splitty, and hurt his elbow…He was good his first year here. I wish his recovery well and luck in SF.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
I’m gonna be honest- I was not paying attention to Seattle last year. I was aware that they have a young core that is coming into their own and flirting with contention, but that’s about it. Didn’t know he fiddled around and found out about by trying a new split finger pitch and hurt his elbow. Is that an actual thing that happened or is it what people suspect happened when he got injured?
C Us Sink
Ray, Gilbert, and Kirby all seemed to be obsessed with Mr Splitty last season. I’m just speculating that it could’ve lead to Ray’s injury. I tried asking the Hyphen, Ryan Rowland-Smith that question about if the splitter may have lead to the injury, but my text question to him on local radio was never answered sadly.
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Gotchya. Again- no idea who you are talking about- I assume the Hyphen/Ryan Rowland-Smith is a local Seattle area sports radio or sports streamer guy?
Anyway, so you’re just speculating. Got it. I mean, you may very well be correct.
But Robbie Ray was great his first year, he was good enough to earn a Cy Young and a major free agent deal at a relatively affordable price and he may very well bounce back for the Giants, while the Mariners are clearly trying to keep themselves relatively cheap, perhaps to bank money for future extensions and future commitments to current extensions with homegrown players.
C Us Sink
Ryan Rowland-Smith pitched for the Mariners…
TrillionaireTeamOperator
He didn’t have much of a career and only played on the Mariners, a team I mostly do not follow.
You’re clearly a huge Mariners fan and also possibly a Seattle/Washington area local?
I just don’t follow the Mariners that closely. I am sure you wouldn’t know some guys who played for my teams for a few years but faded out of the game without much of an impact and never played on another club.
C Us Sink
Love the move. Ray’s injury and size of remaining contract, and to offload that…great deal by Jerry. Meetch is back!
MarlinsFanBase
Hmmmm…I wonder if the Marlins can get in on someone else’s fire sale and maybe pick off JP Crawford.
BrianStrowman9
JPC is a bargain at 3/35. Wouldn’t get your hopes up!
MarlinsFanBase
You still have DiPoto as your GM, right?
I think there’s a chance.
Ben10
Don’t get your hopes up!
Rsox
The Giants have very little money on the books after ’24 and less after ’25 i would not at all be surprised to see a push for Bellinger and/or Snell. Whatever they get from Ray this season is a bonus as the “get” was freeing up roster spots by jettisoning DeSclafani and Haniger
Balk
I agree, this clears up the log jam in the outfield and are probably going after Bellinger. They need one more pitcher though too
Jean Matrac
If trading Haniger clears up the logjam in the OF, why would they sign Bellinger to create another logjam? Don’t forget they added Lee already, so by subtracting Haniger, they’re back to the same number of guys as last season.
I say this by way of saying I hope they don’t risk something like $264M for 12 years, which was MLBTRs prediction. I wouldn’t even like to see half that, 6/$132M.
Balk
Oh, I’m not rooting for that to happen, and for the question on why they would sign Bellinger to recreate a logjam…conforto is on his last year, and Belli is a far better player than him. But I agree, I think they should steer clear of Belli and snell…I would prefer Monty or immanga or a trade.
Pete'sView
One doesn’t have to preclude the other, but Conforto probably is slated for DH duties against RH pitching, with Flores DHing against LH pitchers.
Something is brewing!
DroppedThirdStrike
Oracle would be a good park for Imanaga, not so much for Bellinger.
petefrompp
As a Giants fan I hope no Belly or Snell. Both of those contracts are going to be bad deals. I get Belly has defense – but his hard contact was mid pack at best let year – Wrigley is a hitters park- won’t translate to SF.
Snell – no value in signing him – will probably average out to a 3rd or 4th starter in those first few years then tank after that. SF had their chance – Gausman wanted to sign an play in SF and Farhan refused to even make an offer – lets see him way overpay for crap pitching – such a tool.-thinks he is the smartest guy in the room – and he never is.
dennymagnet
Bellinger’s hard contact rate was low due mostly to the fact that his approach was different.
With 2 strikes he became a new hitter, just trying to make contact as opposed to swinging for the fences, so this absolutely resulted in more ‘contact’ but lowered is overall hard contact.
Snellzilla #7
Well said petefrompp
TellItGoodbye
LOVE IT!! Dead weight gone. Great trade.
agnes gooch
Love it too TellItGoodbye! Go Giants!!!!!!!
yeasties
heh, when fans of both teams are saying that, it doesn’t seem likely that it will be true for either
agnes gooch
Hey yeasties, you can be positive and say that it will be good for both teams too. A trade doesn’t always have to be won by one team or the other, sometimes it is good for both teams.
DanUgglasRing
I like this for the giants honestly even a mid rotation arm nowadays is going to go for more than Rays contract and I think he will be decent to good for the remainder of his healthy availability. Also looks like the giants are stacking lefties (especially if they nab snell or imanaga) and that could be helpful against the Dodgers specifically, even if not a massive advantage it’s something.
Balk
This also frees up a little of that logjam in the outfield. Wouldn’t be surprised of a bellinger signing. Now what to do with conforto!? And another pitcher? Maybe Immanga?
scottn59c
It’s only one more year of Conforto, right? His production was underwhelming but passable.
Balk
Yes, one more year for him. Very possible for a bounce back year. But wouldn’t be surprised if they went after Belli and plugged conforto in at DH along with Flores.
deGrom/Langford Texas Ranger
Wow! The Mariners, Angels, and As are dropping out of the AL West race early! It all but guarantees that the AL West champion will be from Texas.
Slider_withcheese
Imagine two progressive, leftist cities getting together to do something that doesn’t make any sense. Shocking
Fishchum
It takes a special kind of stupid to come up with a comment like that. Congrats.
sacball
Don’t you have a Capitol to go storm?
citizen
out of nowhere trade – mlbtr sleeping at the switch.
no rumors on this, Counsel to the cubs nor Sale to the braves.
Hexbreaker
citizen
MLBTR just reports whatever that hack Jeff Passan writes.
mad1
Not sure a trade of three very bad players would be a trade of significant pieces??
BigRedMachine
Is everyone forgetting that Robbie Ray cannot pitch until August of 2024, if he pitches in 2024 at all? How does that help SF get off to a good start in 2024 and Who knows how he comes back from Tommy John. I really like this trade for the M’s. Mitch is a health risk beyond belief but he was the clubhouse leader before he left. and he will be again along with JP Crawford.
Jean Matrac
Most estimates on the return from TJS is 14 to 16 months. Some have even returned on a shorter timeline, while others haven’t gotten back even after 16 months. So you’re right that he might not pitch at all next season. But then he could be back in early July. They didn’t get him for 2024 anyway. Whatever they get this year is a bonus. The Giants can easily afford to leave him on the 60-day IL all season if necessary. I can see them getting one of Snell, Montgomery, or Imanaga to fill out the rotation.
slider32
My first thought was that the Giants are having a hard time getting free agents, so they looked to upgrade with a trade. Dipoto knows he has a now team, and needs results this year.
padam
“…and in allowing us to remain in the race down to the final days in 2023.”
He pitched one game and got crushed. 3.1 innings.
sf fan
Crazy crap deal. Giants get rid of 40 million to Disco and Haniger, but have to pay around 70-75 million to Ray, and he can’t pitch next year. So , 30 million more on the books. Plus, these guys are DONE. It’s really unbelievable.
DroppedThirdStrike
It’s not a bad deal for either team. Those players can help the Ms and it frees up payroll. SF can roll the dice and get Robbie Ray into the rotation if they’re in contention for a playoff spot and take their time and load up for ’25 if not and pay him with money that they obviously have.
desertdawg
Just from the player wise, Seattle gets an injury prone outfielder they have had before, and the Giants get a questionable arm in Ray. That does seem a wash. Ray started to have arm trouble in Toronto, then with Seattle, Haniger only played a third of the season last year. DeSclafani had injury issues last season for the Giants.
This is a trade that no -one will remember in two years, can’t really seeing anyone that will stand up and say this put us into playoff contention.
Deke
I have lost confidence in anything the Giants do. They act like a typical Silicon Valley Ponzi Scheme Startup. They can sell this as something positive but at the end of the day, it’s a fake headline. Frankly I’m so sick of this management team I’m close to becoming a Dodgers fan.
Pete'sView
Deke —
Easy there now, boy. Let me help you climb down from the railing.
foppert2
Haha. See ya.
spliffTONE
@Deke Bye-bye, little boy blue
JayRyder
This seems like more Farhan Stuff. Get an injured guy. And hope for the best. Th G’s Have been one of the best in rehabbing pitchers by the way. So that is a plus on their side. And Farhan does not like the longer commitments. So another two years after ’24 at 25 mil per. This is basically their Snell move. Not a huge shaker. Got a Cy Young so that’s clout. We’ll see. Again as always we’ll see.
Subtracting Haniger for something and Disco is a good move. But the M’s know something too. Why would they want those guys and lose Ray. Weird trade. But more Farhan Stuff if you ask me.
MarinerBoy
Love getting Mitch back, but time to keep his on field duties to 1B/DH. I just pray they don’t stick him in RF everyday. Need to keep him healthy for this deal to make sense.
painterman360
Every injury he’s had is at the plate though…
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Why are the rich getting richer and the middle teams getting poorer?
I like this for the Giants.
HBRC1987
2 injury prone guys for a pitcher who just had reconstructive elbow surgery. Brilliant stuff!
Nothingman94
So basically the Giants traded two oft injured players in exchange for one oft injured player who won’t even be available until June or so.
spooky
That Giants rotation is looking great for August when Cobb and Ray comeback to the Giants being 27 games out of first place. Welcome to SF BoMel
ArianaGrandSlam
Dipito wiping his own a** finally. He’s a grown-up now.
TribeFan88
Ray is currently at 74 career wins. If he comes back shortly after the 2024 All-Star break, he should have a chance to reach 80 this season.
Haniger is 49 RBI away from 400 in his career, so he should get there in 2024 with regular playing time for the Mariners.
ElasticSyntax
Between Garver and Haniger, M’s fans are going to have a lot to Mitch about.
bloomquist4hof
Between them they might get a full season!
geg42
Haniger made $8 MM in 2023 but that jumps to $20 MM in 2024. (Per baseball reference).
This article has different financials.
I think it increases the Giants desire to trade Haniger with that big of a raise.
MikeSadek3333
yeah–i have Haniger at 20 mil–Disco at 12 mil–
Ray at 23 mil–even if SF adds 6 mil , the M’s pick up 32 mil, SF picks up 29 mil–so a 3 mil savings for SF and a 3 mil add on for Seattle
norcalblue
Perhaps this trade is also about moving Haniger to avoid a logjam when Farhan signs Bellinger?
Seamaholic
Umm … Bellinger is a CF not a corner guy. I mean, he can play corner OF too but that defeats a lot of his value.
norcalblue
Farhan wants this team to be more athletic. Being less reliant on an unproven young kid in CF has many benefits. If both Bellinger and the kid perform well it opens up many options for Melvin. In a less than perfect rollout for the kid, having Belli becomes an even nicer option.
Pete'sView
Not if he replaces Yaz in RF, although Yaz plays a Gold Glove RF.
oldgfan
Have you seen right field @ Oracle ?
Perfect fit for Bellinger.
stymeedone
Yeah, it would be a shame for him to win a GG in LF.
coloredpaper
Trader Jerry’s, open for business! Knew he wouldn’t stay quiet for too long!
larkraxm
I think something that is being glossed over in all of these comments is that Ray is a jerk. Goodbye!
mab51357
Do tell please. Don’t like the sound of that as a Giants fan.
steelerbravenation
DeSclafani to the Pirates for Conner Joe ?
semut
Wouldn’t that be a burn considering the money the Giants have sunk into DeSclafani and the fact they used to have Joe basically playing for a ride to the park
semut
I feel like at this point Farhan Zaidi is just calling every FO saying stuff like “Do you have anyone we can trade an outfielder and a pitcher for?? ANYone??”
User 4223176798
#fire farhan. He is a joke. The trade has desperation and failure written all over it
Snellzilla #7
I agree 100%
bloomquist4hof
So, this looks like a win (on paper) for the Mariners if the idea is bad contracts for bad contracts, not a massive win, but a win (in terms of reducing negative trade value). Haniger isn’t likely to provide much and I feel there’s a really high chance they try to move DeSclafani unless they trade Miller or Woo. DeSclafani would look like a solid backend arm except the Mariners have Woo and Miller plus Hancock waiting in the wings. I really hope they don’t expect Haniger to be a full time RF, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. So while they shaved off some negative value, it’s possible it’s more like a wash, and non zero Ray is good again when he’s healthy.
9er78
Sweet Deal.
Webb, Harrison and Ray.
Young Talented Trio.
Datashark
more like Webb, Cobb, Ray, Harrison, then hope for rain.
mab51357
Did Ray get younger?
Ski to Coors
Jerry wasn’t going to survive another Valentine’s Day without Mitch Hanigar in his life.
fred-3
Not sure why people are saying the Giants won this. Ray is an albatross if he can’t return to top of the rotation level. At best, it’s trash for an injured pitcher.
Datashark
and Mitch is lou gehrig tough right?
They both traded for injury prone players – plus Disco cannot pitch to NLWest teams he was more lit up than a druggie on the streets in SF
fred-3
I mean, they just traded for a pitcher who possibility might not be available until 2025 lol. Like I said, trash for an injured pitcher. It’s a wash next year, but the Giants have a chance to win the trade if Ray returns to form, again, like I said.
Msfan
I guess this means the M’s are longer in the running for the top draft pick,
YourDreamGM
A for Seattle. Love the salary dump. Mitch has potential to be above average or even good. De whatever can be solid if healthy.
D for SF. Even F. If he comes back for a month or 2 and is good he can opt out I believe. If he isn’t good or hurt again you get him for 2 more years. I’d rather spend $ elsewhere. There is the dream scenario he doesn’t opt out and is good 25 26.
Jean Matrac
Do you seriously think a guy that can only manage to pitch for a month or 2, has any kind of platform on which to opt out?
Anything the Giants get in 2024 is a bonus. If he were a FA next year, and healthy, he’d be looking for a deal longer than only 2 years. It’s a reasonable gamble for the Giants.
YourDreamGM
Absolutely
Jean Matrac
It would be unprecedented.
stymeedone
@matrac
See deGROM signs with Rangers.
Jean Matrac
That’s true. But is that single case more of an outlier? Certainly deGrom had a better rep that Ray. But I see your point. If Ray gets something like the 11 starts with a 126 ERA+ like deGrom, then he could conceivably opt-out. But I think the Giants would be fine with that for $23M.
mab51357
Glad you aren’t grading school papers.
kws001
I don’t really have an issue with these deals. Ray was very inconsistent, so getting that from DeSclafani for a lot less money is fine. There’s so much depth in the rotation that he can slot in where Marco was at #5. Haniger can be a DH option and play in the outfield when someone on the corners needs a break.
I like Raley’s upside and Caballero’s bat was an automatic out way too often. I don’t necessarily like all of this payroll slashing, but none of these deals will hurt them.
good vibes only
Like Jerry said this puts the best team on the field Opening Day 2024. I love that we got out of that Ray deal. Haniger and Desc may or may not contribute but Ray was not a lock for 2024 either. Good move. I still dont think we have the middle of the order bat we need but the team is better today than it was yesterday. Ownership still hasn’t invested, but Jerry is doing what he can with what he has.
Let’s Go O’s
Dipoto scratching that trade itch. Dude is an addict
5TUNT1N
So Farhan had given out 3 larger contracts in free agency. Those were to la Stella, Haniger, descalfani. La Stella was already DFAd so took a Loss on that contract, and here he is undoing 2 other bad contracts he gave out. Can someone do the calculations for me if we never gave these guys money and just signed Gausman to the 120 million he was worth. I’m pretty sure we would have a better pitcher than Robbie Ray, and would have only spent about 30 mil more. But the savings in not running out the disappointing disco, La Stella, and Haniger. Not to mention the millions saved. Seems like just real bad decision making has been happening over the last few season. Hey they did extend Webb, glad he’s got his money I think he’s worth it.
Jean Matrac
5TUNT1N
Hindsight.
foppert2
lol. That’s an outstanding effort at linking acquisitions that have no bearing on each other. I’ll just cherry pick a few contracts that add up to roughly what Gausman got and paint a bad choices scenario. Hilarious. The lengths you people go to is ridiculous.
JayRyder
Considering you manipulated his words to create your own comment. You did exactly what you said the other guy did. Ha.
5TUNT1N
You act like Farhans given any larger contracts…cherry picking really? What good contracts has he ever given out ? Your backing JOC or Conforto Manaea Stripling ? Seriously who are you to argue with me every time, you are so readily available to disagree with everything I say must follow my comments or something. Unreal I guess I do have a follower as much as I’ve avoided social networking. He’s dodging a contract to a pitcher. Hey at least disco isn’t the veteran in the clubhouse teaching the kids how to be pros. I was mostly making my comment because what Gausman gets paid is Pennie’s in today’s pitching market, he had him on his clubhouse rebuilt his career. Should’ve given him the money, look at his stats.
Jean Matrac
What good contracts has Zaidi given out? Both seasons of Gausman. Rodon, and Alex Cobb. The first year of Joc’s deals. Darin Ruf. Donovan Solano. and Wilmer Flores. And it’s not just about FAs. What about his acquisitions of Thairo Estrada, Yaz, JD Davis, and LaMonte Wade? Not to mention his drafting of Patrick Bailey, and Kyle Harrison. All you’re focused on is his mistakes. Every GM/PBO makes mistakes. The Giants are in good shape for the future thanks to Zaidi’s avoiding long-term deals for pitchers.
agnes gooch
Thank you Jean Matrac
foppert2
That’s the beauty of him not giving any longer and bigger contracts. We have had those less than stellar ones you mentioned and they haven’t negatively effected his ability to go after anyone.
In hindsight Gausman was a mistake. Sure. But i don’t think it was about not wanting to spend money. They just didn’t want to spend it on him.
I disagree with a lot of people that just paint stupid scenarios to suit their anti Farhan agenda. Don’t flatter yourself. I don’t single you out when it comes to that.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Zaidi has the better hair as a MLB GM.
Snellzilla #7
Wow Jean Matric, you called Farhan a GM/PBO, just like agnes gooch did on another post. And look who’s there immediately to back it up… Farhans pathetic troll farm is sooo obvious, lmao.
I will point out again that Farhan is not the GM, Pete Putila is.
Snellzilla #7
Mercenary Farhan is not a GM. Pete Putila is.
Jean Matrac
The real wow is how egregiously bad your reading comprehension is. Nowhere did I call Zaidi a GM/PBO. This is what I wrote:
“Every GM/PBO makes mistakes.”
Note that I wrote “every”, which is in reference to the executives throughout MLB in charge of baseball operations, some with the title of GM, and some with the title of PBO. My guess is that your analysis of Zaidi’s work as PBO is as bad as your understanding of what I wrote.
I also noticed that your only counter argument to the points I made was a false interpretation of common word usage. What’s pathetic is your lack of a cogent argument backing up your simplistic point of view.
Snellzilla #7
Whatever. Your condescending arrogance is striking. Anyway I’m just happy Farhan finally got off his @$$ and improved the team. That’s all I ask for. I might change my screen name from #FireFarhan, to ‘#SnellYeah’, or something classy like that. Snell ya later tater.
agnes gooch
Thank you foppert
stymeedone
It wouldn’t be only 30mm more as you would then have to fill those additional roster spots.
1958giants
Haniger and Desclafani were total busts/flops under their current contract with the Giants, glad to see the deadwood depart. Robbie will probably head for better pastures after this year with his opt-out. Bottom line: we dumped two disasters and acquired a 2-month rental (when he returns in Aug).
User 4223176798
But if Ray or his arm is a bust, giants are on the hook for $73 million+. Stupid stupid stupid.
Jean Matrac
It’s only stupid if Ray is a bust. That’s a huge assumption that he will be. Besides, the Giants can easily afford $73M, and 3 years is really desirable length for a FA pitcher. It is a gamble, but so is every other deal. It could be real bargain compared to some of the long-term deals that FAs will be signing.
foppert2
Zaidi trades 2 guys that have been right up there in the criticised for performance stakes, for a 2021 Cy Young Winner, and he still gets canned. So stupid.
User 4223176798
You trade garbage for garbage and you still have garbage.
foppert2
So Robbie Ray is garbage. Ok. If that’s what you think.
There’s no point in discussing anything Giants with you. You just gave a singular, blinkered focus. Not capable of writing a sentence that doesn’t criticise Zaidi. A reasonable balanced discussion is just way beyond your mindset.
User 4223176798
Stop walking around with blinders on. Ray is a career .500 pitcher that has had two good years and never thrown more than 200 innings in a year. Assume because of TJ surgery he is not 100% until 2025. You paid $73M for two years – 36M per year can buy a pretty darn good pitcher.
foppert2
I’m not. I’ve listening to baseball experts talking about the trade. The consensus is getting Ray for 2 1/2 years for that cost is a no brainer. Your assuming he will be a wash next year. It’s TJS. Not shoulder capsular surgery. If they get there, the greater likelihood is he would be starting in playoff games next year.
What pitcher can we buy, of that quality, that will accept, 3 years 73m ?
User 4223176798
Stroman, Urias, Imanaga, Bauer. Or relievers, Hader. With opt-outs all can be had for $73M – 3 years.
foppert2
Stroman…..maybe. Debatable whether Is better than Ray.
Urias. Not available. On admin leave.
Imanaga. Everyone has him getting 5. Could still go there anyway.
Bauer. Sure. Obvious issues though. Could go there regardless of Ray.
Hader. Ridiculous suggestion. Is a me first douchebag. Will get way more than 3. His me first demands were likely the genesis of team issues in San Diego when Melvin was manager. We also have an cheap elite closer. Adding that to your list is bizarre.
stymeedone
Never thrown more than 200 innings could be said of most pitchers.
Jean Matrac
Pitchers throwing 200+ innings is not how the game is managed anymore. So that’s a silly criterion to use. Last season only 5 pitchers threw 200 or more innings. There were 8 in 2022, and only 4 in 2021.
ZitoDidRoidsTooObviously
His opt out isn’t until after 25, so if he returns in July as projected that’s a few months and a season. Definitely a gamble
Jean Matrac
BB Ref has his opt-out after the 2024 season.
scottn59c
Of course it would have been better to have signed Gausman. But by the same logic, the Giants could have ended up with the Rodon contract. Such is the nature of bounce-back injury gambits.
The longer contracts have largely been busts, but none has been longer than 2-3 years. The one exception (apart from the Webb extension you noted) is the newest signing of Jung Hoo Lee. I have no idea what to expect there, as he’s yet to log an inning in the MLB.
Datashark
Hoo Lee is getting alot of fanfare but he may end up being a good player for AAA Sacramento in 2024.
Jean Matrac
I agree about Gausman/Rodon. No one can see into the future.. I think Zaidi, like a number of other GM/PBOs, has no problem with longer deals for position players. Long-term deals for pitchers are what they want to avoid, since they turn sour more often than not.
Snellzilla #7
Farhan is not a GM. Pete Putila is the GM.
Jean Matrac
You keep trying to make this nit-picky and useless point.
PBO and GM = GM and assistant GM.
Some teams don’t have a PBO. On those teams the person running baseball ops has the title of GM. On teams with a PBO the GM is like the assistant GM on teams without a PBO.
The assistant role is mainly administrative and the point of who is in that role, besides some advisory element, is irrelevant to the decisions of roster construction. If someone erroneously refers to Zaidi as a GM it’s with the understanding that he’s running baseball ops. You keep bringing it up like it’s important, it isn’t.
Zissou
MY DRUNK SELF: The Mariners are definitely in on one major trade for a big bat to bolster this offense…
MY SOBER SELF: This is it. They are done. Another mediocre year with lucky Wild Card hopes…
MY DRUNK SELF STEPS IN AGAIN: But… James Paxton…SIGN JAMES PAXTON… Think of the opportunities!
GarryHarris
This is what MLB has become. Overpaid injured players getting traded for each other…
It’s not even news anymore.
LDilbert
Mariners need one player and that’s it. One more player. A 3B with 29 doubles and 22 homeruns who plays stellar defense and is a perfect teammate. He only cost 12 million this year and 15 million next year. His name
Eugenio Suarez!!!
Damnit, ahh
Trade backs please , dbacks
muskie73
FWIW FanGraphs projects Eugenio Suarez with 2024 WAR and wRC+ of 1.7 and 99 in 146 games while projecting Luis Urias with 2024 WAR and wRC+ of 1.8 and 103 in 102 games.
LDilbert
I’ve seen these numbers probably 12 times since their trades. I understand
I understand, the potential and upside possible with Urias.
Geno just has the more traditional power I’m used to seeing at the corner. His leadership on the infield showed on a nightly bases in clutch defensive picks and a power arm or a smart play or a run down.
He connected with the fans and was passionate. Some guys have the intangibles and he was one of those guys. Very respectful the way he carried himself.
He’s a bad example with strikeouts making it seem ok. But that was his only downside imo.
I’ll root for Urias, but the dbacks got a special player
GarryHarris
Have no fear, Jerry Dipoto isn’t finished. Anthony DeSclafani and Mitch Haniger may soon be traded. The goal was to unload the dead weight contract of Robbie Ray.
Candlestoked
Maybe trade the two of them back to SF forD Walton?
mab51357
Yeah. That one surprised the heck out of me. Have always liked Suarez. Good teammate and pretty good bat for awhile now.
Non Roster Invitee
No quotes from Farhan in the article. Anybody want to think what he might say?
muskie73
Farhan Zaidi explains:
youtube.com/watch?v=fJHXY0tF0Lo
timmygee
All 2023 there was always a lot of Haniger jerseys in the stands……. This year there’s gonna be some happy fans recycling those jerseys again and rooting for the heart and soul that Mitch brings us!
Candlestoked
Maybe Mr. Heart and Soul himself can sit and root among the fans since he’s so seldom on the field!
Rishi
Fascinating trade. I like it more for Seattle I think. Ray is owed too much money. Why would they even need to send 6m to Seattle? I’ve always thought Ray was a bit overrated but I get it from both sides. Bad contracts. Ray has upside. At least Seattle has 2 pieces so one may work out. Giants have the money so I get that too. Don’t really love it for either team. Ray is in somewhat similar position to Sale. But Sale was a generational talent while Ray was a bit hit or miss even before surgery.
scottn59c
Good analysis. Seems like a pretty lateral move.
Rosstradamus
So, SF is paying 29M for MAYBE Half a season of Ray! Yikes!
Wilmer the Thrillmer
I like this trade for the Giants. Haniger and Disco were huge dissapointments for SF. They may very well rebound in Seattle, especially Haniger. I certainly hope so. I think Ray can be a good #2 starter when he comes back. Cobb and Stripling are question marks. Harrison will likely be the #1 starter within the next 2 years (I hope). And there are several other young starters who debuted last year and who are likely to debut in the next couple of years. That said I think the Giants will sign one more 2-3 starter. Snell just walks too many people (as does Ray). They already passed on a straight up trade for Jordan Montgomery at the 2022 deadline (for Rodon) so I doubt they pay him huge money. It’s probably down to Imanaga or another trade, plus a second tier guy like Paxton or Ryu.
agnes gooch
Hi Wilmer! Good to see you and happy new year!!! I like this trade too! It’s not perfect but it moves energy. Big upside potential. I’m really excited about all of our young arms coming up too.
Hope you are well! Go Giants!!!
Jean Matrac
I agree except for Paxton and Ryu. Zaidi said they would target TOR options, but felt they didn’t need to supplement the bottom of the rotation. I think they’d rather go with Beck, Whisenhunt, and Roupp than those 2 guys. Keaton Winn is apparently viewed as more of a multi-inning reliever, but he’s probably in the mix as well.
Moneyballer
Giants win this one. I like a healthy haniger but is he even an upgrade over kelenic? DeSclafani can be useful but a healthy Ray is the better more accomplished arm. Ask yourself this question if all things were equal and health is not a question would you rather have Haniger/Declafani or Kelenic/Ray? Give me the latter pair!
websoulsurfer
You realize that Ray is not healthy and won’t pitch until the ASB at the earliest, right?
stymeedone
Gee, I sure wish someone would have brought that up earlier–Farhan
Dumpster Divin Theo
Overpay
websoulsurfer
Mariners just made room for Snell, a hometown boy.
Giants78
Could SF just once trade for a guy that doesn’t have baggage? We’re always taking a chance, panning for gold, and never signing an established, ready to play top shelf free agent.
hossmandu
Giants78 – as an Angels fan, I can tell you about “established, ready to play top shelf free agents” and how they don’t always work out.
I can also say that there is no magic wand, you can’t always get guys to sign with your favorite team, and most of the time that works out just fine.
There are at least 20 starting pitcher FAs that most Angel fans whined about not signing over the past five years. There is only ONE that has panned out, Gerrit Cole.
I’m only here because I admire Dipoto’s style, unafraid and always thinking years in the future. M’s fans are lucky to have him.
scottn59c
@Giants78: Who would you like to see SF trade for? The positions of need are really SS and SP. Any SS they might trade for would have to be a stopgap for Luciano, so likely a glove-first, utility guy (or someone with injury history baggage).
So that leaves a trade for pitching. Bieber? Cease? Boston’s Nick Pivetta is a good #3 that could be had. Or they can sign Snell or Imanaga. But I don’t expect them to be the winner of those sweepstakes.
User 4223176798
Yes, I would to see them trade for Cease. Give up a good prospect or two or three, take a chance and sign him to a long-term deal.
foppert2
Why not ? Why couldnt they top the bidding for Imanaga ? Cash isn’t an issue. The predictions have them asking for 5 years. Before you reply with “he won’t go there”, listen to what Yamamotos agent said about their decision and the Giants.
Spending trading capital on a SS seems far more likely. Unless I’m missing someone, there aren’t any available in FA.
scottn59c
I’m not saying that with all certainty they won’t get Imanaga, but he has a lot of other suitors, and let’s face it, we’ve seen a lot of FAs choose elsewhere, all things being equal. I’m not holding my breath there.
Who would you target at SS, and what would you be willing to give up if you were in the driver’s seat?
foppert2
I don’t know enough about availability or quality of SS on other teams to be making suggestions. I’d be just stabbing in the dark. If I was in the drivers seat, I’d be giving the job to someone with more knowledge. I’d give up what it takes.
They lost out twice to the Dodgers who are in an enviable situation with finances and roster and winning. As good a shot as any when they aren’t involved. Considering the cash situation, positioned better than many.
foppert2
After listening to Bauer finally take ownership of his situation and apologise to the media and Manfred yesterday on WFAN, he might also have entered the equation. He will take anything. Including shortish years.
User 4223176798
Finally, I think we agree. Bauer. I don’t care about his background. Many MLB players are not choir boys. I think Bauer would return with the mentality of vengeance and something to prove. He I would pay $37M a year on 2-3 year no opt-out contract.
foppert2
Bauer dropping “vengeance” from his life is why I’d give him another chance.
stymeedone
Bauer never wanted a long term contract. No change there. Plus no one was going to offer him one. I don’t expect any team to offer him another chance. He done.
foppert2
I think he may be a chance. The contrition and understanding of how he got himself into his current position I saw seemed genuine. I was impressed with it. Plenty will see it as a shallow attempt at re-employment but he left me thinking the opposite. I think the light bulb flicking on is genuine.
mab51357
Bauer is a complete disater of a teammate. Was way before the allegations came out. He could pitch though. And this won’t be the end of issues with him. Only taking ownership to try and convince some MLB team to sign him. He will always be an issue.
Non Roster Invitee
I wonder if Gooch will rejoice, yell “yay Giants” and praise Farhan if they sign Bauer.
User 4223176798
Gooch will tell you to enjoy your life and eat your veggies. Gooch needs a good steak.
HBRC1987
Its actually a smart move by the Giants. When healthy, Ray is a top tier pitcher. If it works out, they have 2 more years with him. Or he can elect free agency after the 2024 season. Its a win win really for the Giants. They don’t get stuck with some ridiculous 10 year deal.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Mariners let Haniger go in free agency and trade for him back 1 year later…
LDilbert
I wish they would’ve thrown in Tom Murphy!
BigRedMachine
Yeah, we know that is what the Mariners did……
SFG.1
LOL! Just a week or two ago someone on here didn’t like my comment suggesting the Giants stop the love fest of dealing with Seattle. Said that it wasn’t true. I guess that was just a lucky guess on my part then.
SFG.1
I have to be honest I never heard of Robbie Ray, I ignored the COVID season. Not sure that trading a couple of hacks for a guy coming off Tommy John who won’t be available until the All-Star break is anything to get excited about.
Jean Matrac
Let me paraphrase your post: You don’t follow baseball very closely, but want people to read your opinions about it.
Wilmer the Thrillmer
Ray won the Cy Young in 2021, not the Covid season.
Roussos
All these comments with so muchover analysis, it’s become paralyzing. If teams operated this way there would never be a trade. At the end of the day only one question matters. Does the trade help my team? The answer is yes for both teams. Mariners get to dump some long term salary and have get two proven movable players if they need to do or keep them for depth. S. F gets a solid starter for yesterday’s money
No way that contract exists for that quality of a pitcher anymore. Only way he opts out is if he dominates. And you want him to do so cause that means you’re deep in the post season. If anyone can really see the future because basically that’s what these comments are based on, please let me know what the winning numbers on the lottery will be next week.
Matthew De Lorge
Mitch is always injured, I wouldn’t call him a moveable player. If you are hoping for health from a guy who has never really shown it in recent memory, you are not very smart.
LordD99
Seems the Giants didn’t want anything to do with the oft injured Haniger.
Matthew De Lorge
And traded him to a team that didn’t want anything to do with the oft injured guy just a couple years ago….
tigerdoc616
As someone who is neither a Mariners nor Giants fan, this write up explains a lot. Great job Darragh. Now fans of both teams might still be scratching their heads but that is nothing new. Fans tend to magnify the risk their team is taking. Plenty of risk on both sides of this deal.
Matthew De Lorge
How do you trade for a guy who you had for years, knew was a giant injury risk, and continued that injury history after you finally got rid of him?
Wow, what a dumb move on the part of the M’s!
hossmandu
I hope that’s sarcasm. M’s already have an impressive rotation core with Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert and Miller. Don’t need Ray at all so this is a pure salary dump.
Robbie Ray:
Entering age 32 season
Coming off TJ and flexor repair
Owed $75mm 2024-2026
Two decent seasons out of last 4
Mitch Haniger & Anthony DeSclafani:
Owed $41.5mm 2024-2025 ($47.5mm less $6mm according to reports)
Nothing else matters
Dipoto just freed up $33.5mm of payroll 2024-2026. That will pay a big chunk of future arb increases for Kirby, Gilbert, and Miller.
Matthew De Lorge
You named 4 starters there, where is the depth? Saying you don’t need a guy is an injury away from making a fool of you.
So this was a salary dump just to unclog the rotation, which you usually need an abundance of during a season, to create a clog where you don’t need an abundance?
Also, are the Mariners close to the salary cap?
hossmandu
Matthew —
Name me all the teams that have 4 guys the quality of Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert and Moore. Surely there are less than five. And likely none that pays their #1-#4 $32..4mm (or even if you include DeSclafani as a #5 $44.4mm).
Reality is every team struggles with the #5, Most teams struggle with the #4 & #5, and over half of the teams struggle with the #3-#5. Ray wasn’t expected to be back until after the break anyway.
Not a salary dump to “unclog the rotation”, a salary dump to free up $$ for other things (arbitration raises, bullpen depth, utility guys, etc.) All the things a typical baseball fan doesn’t think of.
There is no “salary cap” in MLB.
Matthew De Lorge
Good job editing your comment.
hossmandu
In other words….
“I have no idea what I’m talking about, so I’ll criticize typos”
In honor of Bob Knight…
Matt, I’ve forgotten more about baseball than you will ever know.
Matthew De Lorge
No, you edited your comment, which makes having a conversation with you pointless. All you care about it clicks after the fact. You literally mentioned that they were unclogging the rotation in your original comment and took it out for the sake of your response.
BTW, insults make your dishonesty worse.
Candlestoked
Get help.
HBRC1987
The way you rhymed “out” with “doubt”. Pure genius. I can tell you have been doing this for a long time.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Who thinks as of right now the Mariners are a better or worse team with their offseason moves so far?
MikeG88
Does Joey Votto make sense for the Ms to sign as a DH?
Old York
Trade involving plenty of overrated players. Both teams are worse off.
LDilbert
I love this take hahaha “
Nobody won this trade
“Both teams are worse off”!
That’s funny
HBRC1987
The Giants are apparently working out Madison Bumgarner and are about to trade for Wander Franco too!
GO1962
The Mariners are fortunate to move that contract.
WarrenSpahn
Either Zaidi has no idea what he is doing or he has no $$$ to play with, can’t decide which it is…
Snellzilla #7
The ownership has proven a willingness to spend big, it’s that Farhan has no idea what he’s doing
muskie73
It was a good trade for two teams willing to assume great risks.
CaptainHooks
The slow on the draw Minnesota Twins missed their chance to replace Sonny Gray with a trade to the Mariners for Robbie Ray. But heck, they signed a weak bullpen arm Free Agent for under $1 million and grabbed another who never made the majors off the waiver wire to fill two empty 40 man roster spots.
Elevation
Mariners fleeced the Giants here.
As a Padre fan, I’m happy to see DeSclafani leave.
Ray is similar to Blake Snell. Take away their best season or 2 seasons, and what are you left with?
Actually, I would argue Ray is a little more consistent than Blake Snell.
Still, the Giants got fleeced and got stuck with a bad contract foe the next 3 years, in addition to paying 6 million to the Mariners.
Snellzilla #7
The Giants need power in their lineup, so Farhan is trading away what little there is… Go figure
muskie73
Circumstances change.
When Seattle signed Cy Young winner Robbie Ray to a five-year, $115 million contract in November 2021, Luis Castillo was not on the Mariners. Logan Gilbert was coming off a rookie season with an ERA+ of 88 in 24 starts. George Kirby, Bryce Miller and Bryan Woo had never thrown an MLB pitch,
The Mariners have at least four years of team control over the promising rotation of Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller and Woo. The $73 million owed Ray was too expensive as insurance against almost inevitable attrition.