In signing Lucas Giolito and (surprisingly) trading Chris Sale, the Red Sox haven’t done a lot to upgrade a rotation that struggled in 2023. Within the last week, chief baseball officer Craig Breslow stated that it has “been a challenge” in finding additional pitching, while club president Sam Kennedy seemed to downplay the idea of a big free agent splash by saying that the team’s payroll “probably will be lower than it was in 2023.”
Breslow did state that the Sox were continuing to look at free agent and trade possibilities, and it appears as though the club hasn’t given up on the idea of still landing a bigger name. According to Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe (X links), the Red Sox are “still in contact with the top remaining free-agent starters.” Reporter Marino Pepen is more specific, writing (Spanish language link) that the club has been continually talking with left-hander Jordan Montgomery.
There is no sense that a deal with Montgomery or anyone is particularly close, or necessarily even a realistic option. Abraham wondered whether any pursuits of frontline pitching were “serious or not,” or if the team’s explorations could be “just posing so they can claim they tried” in the wake of growing angst in Red Sox Nation.
MLBTR’s list of the offseason’s top 50 free agents still has 19 unsigned names. Blake Snell (ranked 4th), Montgomery (6th), Mike Clevinger (30th), and Michael Lorenzen (34th) are the only clear-cut starting pitchers of that 19-player field, with Jakob Junis (47th) perhaps more of a swingman candidate though he has a lot of starting experience in the past. It is fair to cite Snell and Montgomery as the true front-of-the-rotation types remaining, as landing Clevinger, Lorenzen, or Junis might help Boston’s staff, but perhaps not move the needle much in terms of quieting fan discord.
Breslow is naturally only under an obligation to make the team better, not to acquire only marquee talent. However, the CBO is already facing a lot of heat in his first few months on the job given how the Red Sox are coming off a pair of last-place finishes in the AL East, and because team chairman Tom Werner raised expectations with his now-infamous “full throttle” comments about Boston’s winter plans.
Terms like “in contact with,” or “checking in on,” or “showing interest in” are commonplace during hot stove season, and this lingo can represent anything from due diligence texts to an agent or a more serious push to close a deal. It is common for executives to keep in touch with agents about any number of available players, usually in the form of some contact early in the offseason to establish particular interest in a target or two, and then the two sides can circle back multiple times over the coming weeks or months as markets develop.
To this end, it isn’t surprising that the Sox are still testing the waters on the top pitchers, since there’s no downside in such explorations while the players are still unsigned. As Abraham notes, the Red Sox “could be hoping prices drop and somebody like Montgomery makes sense” within what might be a somewhat limited 2024 budget, yet if this situation ends up being the case for Montgomery or Snell, it is far from automatic that Boston would necessarily be the first choice for a pitcher willing to accept a reduced deal.
Montgomery has been linked to the Red Sox for over two months now, with some suggestion that Montgomery is the team’s preference over Snell. Unlike Snell, Montgomery doesn’t come attached to qualifying offer compensation, and Montgomery has a steadier and more durable track record even if Snell’s peaks (i.e. two Cy Young Award-winning seasons) are higher.
Montgomery and his wife McKenzie also have a personal connection to Boston, as McKenzie is currently on a dermatology residency at a local hospital. These family ties have led to speculation that Montgomery might therefore be more open to favoring Boston as a landing spot, though that obviously doesn’t mean Montgomery would leave tens of millions on the table to give the Red Sox any kind of discount. MLBTR’s Nick Deeds explored Montgomery’s market in a reader poll earlier today, and given the number of known suitors — the Rangers, Giants, Yankees, and Angels — and possible mystery teams still on the periphery, there isn’t any indication that Montgomery and his representatives are yet willing to lower their demands.
Only the Red Sox (and the players’ agents) know how realistic Boston’s chances might be of actually landing a notable free agent, so a trade might be the more realistic route towards adding pitching help. Trades have been Breslow’s preferred method of transaction thus far in his brief tenure as chief baseball officer, as the Sox have already brought in Tyler O’Neill and Vaughn Grissom in swaps while dealing away Sale, Alex Verdugo, and Luis Urias. Giolito’s two-year contract and Cooper Criswell’s one-year, $1MM pact are thus far the only Major League signings of the Breslow era.
Baseball Babe
Did Ryu sign? He’s a clear starter.
5TUNT1N
I don’t think so, nice call!
redsox for_life
A trade for Jesus Luzardo ( Marlins) Yorke and Duran plus a not 30 prospect will do it!bring back Duvall 1/10m!! Go Sox Go
drasco036
That’s one of the worst trade proposals I’ve read and there have been some truly awful trade proposals.
redsox for_life
Why
redsox for_life
Luzardo is a very god pitcher free agent 2027! We have Anthony almost ready and Yorke have no place wt Grisson at 2b
drasco036
There is absolutely zero chance the Marlins would do that trade. It’s not nearly enough and the Marlins have no need for Duran or Yorke for that matter.
Fever Pitch Guy
Life – I don’t think religion should matter with Luzardo, all that should matter is performance and health.
mgomrjsurf
Duran CF.
Paleobros
Well, his name is Jesus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Chuck from Uniontown
Giancarlo Stanton for Shohei Ohtani straight up.
Ketch
No it won’t
I.M. Insane
R Yu Joking? I know. It’s been done. I’ll see myself out.
ibuititnoonecame
Boycott this ownership group
Fever Pitch Guy
ibuit – I’ve already stopped wearing my John Henry shirts, stopped watching episodes of Roseanne, and stopped singing Sweet Caroline … so I’ve got all three owners covered.
Oh yeah, I stopped going to Blaze Pizza too.
deweybelongsinthehall
At this point, seeing is believing and I’m going to try to refrain from additional commenting until players’ sign or another trade is made.
99CaptainJudge99
@Fever & dewey- Yes, I totally understand that backwards Psychology, but it only works to a point. I still feel that Jordan Montgomery is walking in the door, and signing with the Yankees today or tomorrow, and forgiving them for trading him for a “player in a walking boot” but I have somehow have come to grips that it’s probably not happening. Lol. So obviously I feel your pain. I definitely see Monty back in a Rangers uniform, or even in a Red Sox jersey having success whether I like it or not. Smh. It doesn’t matter how I feel, being a diehard Yankees fan. I definitely understand how you both feel, hang in their guys.
Fever Pitch Guy
Cap – Thanks, yeah it’s hard to imagine the Yanks signing Snell or Monty and paying that 110% penalty but you never really know what kind of motivation they have. Maybe they are just assuming at least one of Stroman, Cortes or Rodon will have health issues?
Extending the official offer to Snell certainly seems like they sent a message that they’re serious about him. They are not one to bother with “well we tried” type offers. I suppose they could be just driving up the price?
deweybelongsinthehall
Captain N Fever. Time will tell. It’s just sad to see ownership change without a reasonable explanation. I go back to the later 60s and even remember driving to Fenway in 85, getting there after the first pitch and getting nice seats for Clemens. Why would ownership risk losing fans when they built it up so well? I was fin in 20 due to the pandemic and am on record for wanting Bloom to run the team one more year with his drafts and traded for players developing. To make a change but keep the same overall plan, makes little sense. They could have simply updated their pitching department under Bloom unless he was unwilling, etc.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Werner made it very clear the other day, they are focused on “The Fenway Experience”.
Sadly, he’s somewhat right …. lots of well off people go to Fenway for the ‘experience”. It’s famous, a historical landmark, and one of the “places to be” when going into Boston.
It’s getting harder and harder for the true fans to afford attending games at Fenway. But I do believe it’s a mistake to think Fenway will always sell itself, it’s not Wrigley.
Trollfree
Dewey – I said what you said when DD got fired. Nothing has changed since then from an ownership perspective. They had a psychotic break and have acted bizarrely since.
No rhyme or reason for anything they do.
Fever Pitch Guy
TF – Unfortunately, the Red Sox are owned by businessmen whose main goal is making as much money as possible.
John Henry has 8 championship rings now and has no ties to the Boston region, neither does Werner. Only Kennedy does, he’s from Brookline, but he’s another story.
Remember, the Red Sox had an all-time high $89M profit in 2019 and made several financial decisions based on the assumption that level of profit would continue. Then the next year they lost $70M because of Covid and suddenly they had concerns about funding the purchase of the Penguins.
So besides Cora’s horrific mismanaging in 2019, the other huge reason for their sudden cheapness is Redbird’s $750M investment at the start of 2021. Not to defend Henry, but he DOES have to answer to Redbird now … and they are a LOT more focused on annual profits rather than just having the value of their stake increase.
Combine that with the funding of The Corners, I think you basically have to accept the fact that John Henry has turned into Harry Frazee and that probably won’t change for at least another decade.
Trollfree
Fever – Your numbers are baseball operation numbers if you got them from Forbes which is the least profitable aspect of the entire set of revenues tied to baseball. I refuse to believe they lost money in any year due to their other Revenue streams. PROFITS fell in 2020 but the did not lose money.. The lower profits impacted their Penguin venture.
Everything outside the scope of the Boston Red Sox SHOULD NOT be an issue BUT when they co-mingle their profits and take money out of one pocket to fund another pocket the Red Sox are impacted. The Red Sox are a cash cow funding other ventures. Not re-investing profits into the Red Sox is unforgivable. The cash cow is nowhere near drying up even if no fans come to the games because there will still be many other sources of revenue.
I don’t believe our problem is financial. I believe it’s the GM not maximizing value with acquisitions. Bloom signed Devers for way too much, same for Story and Yoshi. Breslow signed Giolito and O’Neill for too much and Grissom cost $17MM in a one time acquisition fee which is steep for a prearb1.
One more thing. The company is worth $4.5 Billion. The Red Sox generate $380MM of annual TOTAL PROFITS a number that includes more than just the baseball operations numbers.. Pulling the full profits from baseball seems incredibly unfair to the ball club and it’s fans.
Fever Pitch Guy
TF – Excellent post as always!!
I think you’re forgetting 2020 was the Covid year when there was NO ATTENDANCE WHATSOEVER during the regular season. So you’ve got players getting 37% of their scheduled salaries, and basically the only revenue coming in was TV broadcasts with ratings that were way down that year and the Red Sox were so bad they were almost never on national TV.
It’s already been confirmed last year Bloom was immediately cut off from spending midseason after reaching $225M in payroll, that’s why he didn’t acquire any help at the deadline.
And Kennedy last week confirmed Breslow has an even smaller budget than Bloom did last year.
Believe me, I’m just as shocked and angry at ownership as you are. In fact it was confirmed the entire front office was anticipating a much larger budget for this year because that’s what ownership had initially told them. That’s why I was so optimistic at the start of the offseason, because just like you I believed the ownership liars. As it turns out, it was all a ploy to sell tickets.
At least you’ve got the Rangers to cheer on, they are a first class organization with one of the best parks in MLB!!
I.M. Insane
But have you stopped whistling “John Henry’s Hammer”? Doesn’t count until you do.
Fever Pitch Guy
Insane – Haha …. I had to look that one up, never heard it before as I’m not a huge Johnny Cash fan.
LordD99
Blaze pizza? That one’s lost on me!
Fever Pitch Guy
Lord – One of the Red Sox minority owners also owns Blaze Pizza.
His name starts with Le and ends with Bron ;O)
RickEO
Idiotic
Occams_hairbrush
Yeah. Lets all start the boycott by talking about the Red Sox on the Internet.
Bucket Number Six
Geez, this is like the third Red Sox pitching article in two days.
Blackpink in the area
Yeah seems kind of strange considering the president said payroll is going to be lower.
all in the suit that you wear
The president (Kennedy) didn’t say payroll will be lower. He said “probably will be lower”. Probably means he is guessing. It was dumb of him to guess. Just as dumb as Werner saying full throttle when he didn’t know what was going on.
Blackpink in the area
Isn’t the president higher up the chain than the chairman?
There is an article on mlb.com right now about the Orioles and Elias is saying they are looking to add pitching.
PKCasimir
No. Werner is an owner, Kennedy is an employee.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – While there’s obviously no way to prove motivation, I am fairly certain Werner’s throttle comment was made to generate excitement and sell tickets … just like the “leaks” of them going hard after Ohtani and Yamamoto.
Did they even make an offer to either one?
It sounded an awful lot like the Mookie thing, where he insisted they never even made an official $300M offer to him.
BTW – Probably isn’t guessing, probably is acknowledging there’s a very good chance. If he truly didn’t have a clue, he’d have said something vague like “we won’t know until we start the season”.
all in the suit that you wear
Fever: I think they were both dumb comments because they were both likely to lead to bad PR. You don’t say full throttle in case you can’t deliver for reasons out of your control. Kennedy could have said this year’s budget will be “about the same” as last year and that would have been defendable later because about is vague. Werner and Kennedy are just not that smart. They could have also just said, “We trust Craig Breslow’s vision to build a championship team.” In my opinion, there were many things they could have said instead of those two dumb things they came up with.
JoeBrady
Probably means he is guessing. It was dumb of him to guess. Just as dumb as Werner saying full throttle when he didn’t know what was going on.
=======================
We spent 20 years as the intelligentsia of MLB, and overnight, the three stooges. We are either:
1-Full throttle
2-Looking for pitcher or,
3-we’re broke.
madmc44
They are both underlings of Henry’s, the one that says no to each proposal. It’s obvious he wants an inferior product on the field. TV Revenue is all he cares about.
Hey Breslow, just sign Montgomery to a $15 M Annual plus VERY reachable incentives for $10 M more annually, for 5 years with 3 player opt-outs and a $500,000 moving into a condo near his wife’s practice., signing bonus. You have a contract if you get fired….
Fever Pitch Guy
PK – Ummm …. Kennedy is an owner too, just not as much of a percentage as Werner.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – Without question any time an owner says they will do something and they don’t, it’s dumb longterm.
But short term it probably helped generate additional revenue, so not dumb …. just unethical.
It would have been perfectly fine if the Dodgers had said “full throttle” because they meant it.
As for Kennedy, he was being honest! I’m really surprised you have such a problem with his honesty.
There’s an old saying that is quite wise, “better to under-promise than over-promise”.
That really does make sense.
It’s like if you ask your realtor how much he can get for your house.
If he says $600K and it sells for $500K, you’d be pissed.
But if he says $400K and it sells for $500K, you’d be really happy.
See how that works?
I have a relative who is an auto service manager. When asked how much a repair will cost, he always quotes high. Then when the actual amount is determined, it’s lower and the customer is happy.
Kennedy screws up like everyone else, but he’s not dumb.
GASoxFan
Fever, we play this game ever year lately, but, did you see how many opening day tickets are STILL available?
all in the suit that you wear
Fever: Thinking about it, what could be dumber than to take fans expectations to the other extreme (reducing player payroll) after saying full throttle? I doubt there is a dumber move. That is sure to anger fans. Kennedy could have given an answer that revealed nothing as people often do. He could have said, “We are committed to giving Craig Breslow the resources he needs to build a championship team.”
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – No, I haven’t looked but I’m guessing there’s plenty that will be gifted or sold at a huge discount or given away with ticket packages.
I’ll support them on the road, but I do plan to attend the one game at Fenway honoring the 2004 team.
Did you see this video? Holy crap, I didn’t even know ownership refused to allow any trades at the deadline last year because of money.
I’m still holding out a glimmer of hope they will pivot after seeing and hearing the media, fanbase and ticket sales. But it sure is looking grim right now.
youtube.com/watch?v=0Q1TfO97T_o
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – I know a move that’s even dumber, and you’ll probably agree with me on this one.
Kennedy during Winter Weekend calling Red Sox fans liars.
Here’s the video if you haven’t seen it …. and towards the end they say EXACTLY what I’ve said many times, Kennedy is doing a horrible job as replacement for Lucky.
youtube.com/watch?v=0Q1TfO97T_o
all in the suit that you wear
Fever: I think they will add another bat like Duvall and another pitcher like Clevenger and the player payroll will be around $200M. It all depends on what site you believe regarding payroll. Roster Resource has them at $198M now. Spotrac has it lower. If they are spending between $200M and $237M, I think that is at least reasonable. If they add a pitcher and a bat, they should be in that range.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – I agree, assuming Duvall and Clevinger’s price drops enough to their liking.
What is the difference between RR and Spotrac? I can’t even find the RR website, I’ve never used it. But Spotrac has it all, including $17M for Benefits and $10M for Est Pre-Arb.
You know how I feel about where the payroll should be, between $220M-$230M with another $7M to use at the deadline if needed.
When you’ve got $88M tied up in just Sale, Devers, Story and Giolito how the heck do you expect to put together a contender by spending only $112M on the other 23 players? The current front office is simply not capable of putting together a contender with a small market budget.
And their claims of “wait until MAT are here” is a bunch of BS, because we know even if they become MLB players at some point this season, it will take at least a year for them to become impact players. And the odds of all three, or even two of them, becoming stars are quite slim. The vast majority of top prospects never live up to their hype, this is nothing more than Sox ownership continuing to dangle the carrot.
all in the suit that you wear
Fever: Roster Resource is here:
fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/red-sox
I like the way it is laid out. It has the Red Sox CBT player payroll at $198.2M. Spotrac has them at $185.6M and says they are $61M below the $237M CBT tax threshold. That makes no sense since $185M is $52M less than $237M. So, I don’t understand Spotrac.
GASoxFan
Suit – the CBT charge is much higher than actual payroll. Could be part of the disconnect.
Also, if you look at the roster moves, not everything has been up to date on all the roster/payroll tracking sites.
I like the cot’s method personally:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1WWRsQNsGZkWuJZwlY8–xVBXMJGjh230D45KiHTHuvY/htmlview
all in the suit that you wear
GA: They seem to have sections for actual payroll and CBT payroll. The numbers I listed above were the CBT totals. Which site seems most updated/accurate to you?
Fever Pitch Guy
Bucket – That’s because of Winter Weekend.
GASoxFan
I think it’s part winter weekend, part fan interest.
Articles on subjects with lots of views and lots of comments help drive ad revenue
Blackpink in the area
There are lots of fans from all over. Maybe if there were more articles for other teams then more fans would visit the site.
The president said payroll is going to be lower.
yeasties
Like most content creators, I’m pretty sure they look at the recent website analytics and write articles to tailor them to where the current traffic is coming from, or the keywords associated with that traffic.
It’s a fun game actually, if you want to visit some websites for the web trackers to pick up your activity, then go visit a website or youtube channel and then watch them do a page or video on the topic that you were just visiting
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Without question you are 100% correct about the views and comments. But Winter Weekend is a once-a-year opportunity for media and Sox brass to get together in a confined area and talk about what’s going on with the team without there being any games involved.
Looking back, there was a Sox article here about every 3 days before Winter Weekend …. 10th, 13th, 16th and 19th. I’m guessing they will go back to that same frequency unless there’s real Sox news to report.
And the Red Sox finally admitting all their talk of GFIN earlier in the offseason was total BS, that’s a huge story that Sox fans needed to vent about.
If anything it’s been an eye-opener as to how unethical the Sox brass have been the past several months. I still can’t believe shortly after Bloom was fired they had the NESN announcers trashing him with info that was more than a year old.
And for Pete Abe to publicly question whether the Sox were truly interested in landing a top of the rotation pitcher or were just posing? Wow, that’s a first for the Boston Globe’s Sox beat writer.
Fever Pitch Guy
Yeast – Yup, Big Brotha is always watching.
That’s why I use DuckDuckGo, no tracking.
william-2
I wouldn’t say unethical. Disingenuous. They know how bad this roster is and what it would take to make it competitive. The ill feeling the team gets from its fans are based on how glaring the problems have become, and how the front office keeps either ignoring them, or painting a completely different picture than the reality we are seeing unfold.
The anger would still be there, but telling fans three years ago that we were in the midst of a five year rebuild plan would have been a painful truth we would have had no choice but to accept and at least respect for its honesty. This team’s management has rapidly destroyed the good will it had worked so hard to build, and it is completely unforced errors after errors that are causing that erosion.
Trollfree
Willaim – I liked what you said and I think you are right.
We need to stop calling what Bloom did a REBUILD. It was nothing more than a TEAR DOWN. 5 all-stars lost and only Kenley gained. That’s no rebuild. The minor league additions came from the draft which is an annual pipeline that each GM gets with his job. Bloom DID NOT build the farm system and he TORE DOWN the MLB roster.
That’s a lot of destruction. What we don’t know yet is will Breslow add all-stars, maintain the status quo or make things worse. It will be hard to make things worse but it’s possible if you trade the good prospects like Duran, Rafaela, Anthony, Abreu, Bello, Houck, Crawford and Teel. If he deals anyone else to improve the MLB team it’s a win and he’s improving things. Time will tell. As a betting man, I’d go with status quo.
Fever Pitch Guy
William – I honestly think that Henry believed Bloom would make the Red Sox as successful on the field as the Rays have been. I think that’s why there wasn’t a big trade deadline selloff in 2022 or 2023.
Another thing they were disingenuous about, improving the team’s defense. Werner said they would improve the defense and it would translate into 7-8 more wins. But what have they done? Replaced a GG-caliber Dugie that is capable of playing all three OF positions with an O’Neill who has been primarily a LF’er his entire career and might not even play because of his anemic bat.
Grissom’s defense at 2B has been highly questioned, so how did the Sox improve defensively?
The lies they are telling are awful, just awful.
30 Parks
The Sox are not “in contact with” present realities in MLB.
rememberthecoop
Hey Marky Mark – that link in the first paragraph is in Spanish. No Hablo Español.
acoss13
Marino Pepen says, paraphrasing here:
The Red Sox have been passive in adding pitching but Marino says that he reassures fans that the team has maintained contact with free agent Jordan Montgomery.
Fever Pitch Guy
acoss – Unfortunately Pepen has proven to be inaccurate with past reporting, especially when non-Latino players are involved.
The thing is, if Monty’s price drops there will be a bunch more suitors jumping in.
If the Sox truly want a player that’s in demand, they will have to outbid all other teams. It’s as simple as that.
rememberthecoop
Thank you @across13.
5TUNT1N
Use translate on your iPhone or download the Google variant and become accustomed with them they are great tools!
rememberthecoop
Thanks @STUNT1N
Yankeesforever
MLB may require opposing teams to add a bib to their uniform attire when they face Red Sox pitching for hygienic reasons, since no Red Sox catcher wants to be drooled on by the batters.
all in the suit that you wear
Like the Red Sox drooling to hit Rivera? Here’s a blown save from the greatest comeback in history:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=IBPe0gRI2IE&pp=ygUXYmls…
rememberthecoop
The greatest comeback in history was 2016 World Series game 7. Cubs had gone 108 years without a title, blew a lead late, after coming back from being down 3 games to 1. Then the skies opened, rain fell, Heyward’s speech, and the rest is history.
Fever Pitch Guy
coop – That was no doubt a great comeback, but it doesn’t compare to 2004 Red Sox.
Those Red Sox did it against a 101-win Yankees team after they had lost at Fenway 19-8 which put them into a 0-3 hole.
Your Cubs did it against an AL Central team that had won only 94 games despite playing a heavily unbalanced schedule in a division where only one other team had a winning record. The Cubs were easily the best team in MLB that year, the Tribe was only 5th-best.
Yankeesforever
I’ll give you that, but I got to thank you for the laugh too.
Considering what Red Sox fans have gone through, being Bucky and Boone and Buckner to death, and living through 84 years of utter failure most of it coming at the hands of the Yankees, for a Red Sox fan trying to use misery as leverage is like a guy who lost his house in a flood giving the business to a guy with an overflowing sink, I mean come on dude.
Trollfree
Yankee – Wow, touched a nerve thinking about 2004 again. All I can picture is a Yankee fan sitting in a dentist chair re-enacting the scene from Marathon Man!!! hahahaha
Yankeesforever
Nah man just trying to save you guys the embarrassment,
That series in a scratch compared to the eternal scar Red Sox baseball has left on the souls of Sox fans.
That everbearing scar courtesy of the Yankees would make Voldemort envious when compared to the scar he left on Harry Potter.
Be as it may, that is all in the past, this article is about the coming season and for so long the Red Sox and Yankee fans had so much in common in expecting great things from our teams, now you guys have more in common with A’s fans than you do with us.
Feeling kind of low about that prospect..eh.
I am here to comfort you and wipe away your tears with some 60 grit sandpaper
all in the suit that you wear
Not true. You fail to understand that 4 World Series championships have changed everything for Red Sox fans.
Yankeesforever
indeed, which makes this season’s prospects even more demoralizing. They don’t even seem to be trying anymore.
The great Red Sox franchise is now a bottom feeder, what’s the world coming to.
Fever Pitch Guy
Yankees – Who said anything about misery? It was the greatest comeback in sports history, combined with the worst collapse in sports history. Just the facts, dude. Everything that happened prior made it all the more sweeter.
This is still the greatest headline in newspaper history!
gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/daily-news-front…
Fever Pitch Guy
Yankees – You really want to talk about scars?
The only reason a Yankee fan would bother coming to a Red Sox thread to troll the fans is because you’re still scarred from what the Sox did to you in 2021, 2018 and 2004.
That’s right, the Sox have eliminated your team in 3 consecutive postseason matchups and two of those eliminations resulted in WS championships.
Maybe you’ll be able to finally get over it within a few more years?
Fever Pitch Guy
Yankees – What’s the world coming to when “fans” like you show no class by kicking rival fans while they are down.
Newsflash: Red Sox fans have already hit rock bottom, your trolling has zero impact.
Yankeesforever
you are more than welcome to troll Yankee threads, I dont take it that serious.
All I ask is that you show some trolling quality and make me laugh and want to respond in kind.
Let’s have some fun with it.
Yankeesforever
what better time to kick sand in the face of Red Sox fans than when they are down, what are you trying to do take the joy out of our rivalry…sheesh!
stevetherock
Another article about the Red Sox doing nothing. Yawn!
soaktherich
All the nonsense about “fan angst” is tiring. They’re checking in on Montgomery because his agent doesn’t even start answering calls until a month before spring training.
Trollfree
soaktherich – Need to stop with the Monty stuff. He and Texas are publicly saying they want him back so it’s very much like JD Martinez and bringing his requests in line with what they can pay. If you had a choice between Texas or Boston would you take Boston as a pitcher playing for Cora?
Get real. Monty will be in Texas as soon as his price drops to an acceptable level.
FatChance65
The only reason “it has been a challenge” finding pitching is because they want a million dollar team on a ten cent budget.
Mo Vaughns Jockstrap
They want a $237M dollar team on a $180M budget
Trollfree
The reason it’s so difficult is:
1 – The Red Sox have a 3B that misplays 50 balls a year which grossly impacts a pitchers ERA and WHIP which get him paid.
2 – The Red Sox have a scum bag manager who you can’t trust and he thinks he’s a pitching coach. He’s ruined two great pitchers’ careers so who would want to be the third
3 – Breslow evaluates players and sets a price on their value. If the value doesn’t equal or exceed the price he doesn’t request money to fund a contract. So far, apparently nobody is worth more than they are asking for except O’Neill, Giolito and Grissom. How bizarre is that? Two of the three have sucked for multiple years and the other is a pre-arb 1 that cost $17MM.
The team spending never matters when it comes to wins. It’s always the quality of the spending that dictates success. We have 5 large bad contracts so don’t expect success any time soon:
1 Devers
2 Story
3 Giolito
4 Yoshida
5 Grissom/Sale buy down
We’ve wasted $107MM of the $237MM CAP
That is 45% of CAP money but the owners said they won’t go that high in 2024 so we wasted roughly half our budget on 5 mistakes.
Rsox
Eventually, they will probably circle back to Paxton. Beyond that i could see them looking at other “take a flier” type guys like Dallas Keuchel or Johnny Cueto
acoss13
Dallas Keuchel is cooked, especially with his time towards the end with the White Sox, but Cueto might still have something left in the tank if he’s healthy.
User 4245925809
Paxton might have already returned, except for standard boras tactics..
1) boras thinks Pax is worth as much as 3/45m on open market, which is ludicrous seeing how little he has pitched for several years, constant injuries and don’t forget 35yo
Pass myself on all available SP FA’s, except for Paxton and Montgomery. Team is up a creek SP wise as it is and -0- prospects above A ball who might become as much as a back end starter.
Lean market for FA starters, those signed already massively overpaid. Can’t blame the team for throwing loads of cash for a Snell and anyone whom has signed ex for Grey at what they ended up getting.
Only saving thing for Sox so far as the pen will be loaded and talent winding up at AAA come April who probably should be on a 26m roster
Fever Pitch Guy
John – Good post but I disagree about all the other SP’s getting way overpaid.
Lugo $45M/3
Wacha $32M/2
Maeda $24M/2
I mean c’mon, the Sox couldn’t outbid the freakin’ Royals and Tigers? Seriously?
THOSE are the types of pitchers they should have targeted if they wanted a 3rd-tier SP on a short deal.
Rsox
They did target Lugo but were not willing to do 3 years
all in the suit that you wear
Fans would complain about those pitchers. Why spend the money when it won’t satisfy the fan base anyway? Spend less, hear the same complaints.
GASoxFan
Very few teams make it through a winter without *some* grumbling out of their fanbase.
That said, it’s getting harder to view this as anything less than an extreme tank job. Boston has been tanking since 2020 with little to show for it being added to the pipeline.
There really isn’t much effort at trying so far this offseason, again.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – I don’t know of any Sox fan that wouldn’t be happy about the return of Wacha, or ERod for that matter (except KD of course Haha!)
taxman
Don’t worry – ticket prices are being slashed by 0.05%.
Blackpink in the area
Paying face value for tickets is like paying full price at Kohls.
Fever Pitch Guy
Black – Excellent analogy! I don’t buy a damn thing in Kohl’s unless it’s with my 30% coupon, $10 Kohl’s Cash, or is 70% off on clearance.
okbud
I hear Corey Kluber’s available. And cheap too.
Fever Pitch Guy
bud – Maybe the Sox will sign Kluber, Hill and Paxton.
They could call them “The Golden Hurlers”.
They would easily provide at least 30 starts …. combined.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Monty is waiting for Texas’ TV revenue stream to be ironed out before making his choice. They say it should be finalized by the first week of February so there’s probably another 3 weeks of Monty speculation until the Rangers can figure out if they can afford him or not. Both Monty and the Rangers want to re-sign him there but it has to make sense financially.
Trollfree
Dorothy – I’m sure Chris Young will pull the trigger with the understanding that he has so much pitching that dealing it is an option. If Monty goes for $25MM a year they are $3MM over the CAP. That can be fixed very quickly in one deal. The Ranges have a ton of youth that is outstanding so off loading a security blanket like Mahle or Heaney when Scherzer comes back should not be a problem.
Horace Fury
It’s clear that the Red Sox authorize a big spend and then they recoil in instant buyer’s remorse for the next year or two, and heads roll, too. So the big plunge on the Devers extension has pretty much killed spending for this offseason, including even a very reasonable expenditure of about half what they spent on Devers for six or seven years of Montgomery. This is a crime–Monty is a lefty, he’s durable, he’s actually getting better, he would give them starts and innings, he can handle the AL East–this should have been a no-brainer from the get-go, the Devers money be damned. If they’re smart, they are still in on him, waiting for Texas to lose their moneybags and Monty to be left without a strong suitor.
Fever Pitch Guy
Horace – If Devers never got extended, the Sox would have either blown the $29M on some other “rebound candidate” or just pocketed the money.
They are $52M under the base threshold, Devers shouldn’t prevent them from signing anyone. Hopefully they are trying to dump Story, that would be a huge plus.
If Monty’s price drops enough I think he’ goes to the Yankees.
Horace Fury
Fever, I’m not saying the Devers money crippled the Sox. I’m saying it had a psychological effect on ownership, making them feel overextended and in need of contraction.
kingbum
If the Sox wanna be cheap, they could decide to take a shot at Trevor Bauer.
Trollfree
king – I think as suggestions go, that’s a very good one. I’ll take him over Kluber and the others still waiting to get their dance card filled. Maybe he could become friends with Cora and compare notes on why cheating in up to 90 games gets a lesser suspension than engaging in socially taboo after hour activities.
Fever Pitch Guy
TF – Excellent post! And since Bauer is also a cheater, him and Cora would get along smashingly!
BeeCarbo
Bauer and Urias, They’ll put women in ths seats with big cardboard placards.
JoeBrady
They’ll put women in ths seats with big cardboard placards.
=========================
You assume that all women automatically buy the headlines without reading the underlying stories. They don’t.
Most women know when they see a shakedown.
Trollfree
JoeBrady – Very nice.
smkelly1970
Rich Hill’s still out there, too.
olmtiant
Anyone sign Brasier yet???
LordD99
He might actually be a good signing by some team. The Dodgers made adjustments that worked quite well.
Fever Pitch Guy
olm – The Astros had been leaning toward him, but then they tilted in another direction.
olmtiant
Like the tilted reference !!! Two teams I forbid him signing with!!! And that’s one of them!!!
GASoxFan
You never know, maybe he goes to the yankees….
olmtiant
BINGO….number 2!!!!
88 Brooklyn Dodgers
Arguably the most underrated stadium in all of sports.
88 Brooklyn Dodgers
Learn what that word means.
BaseballisLife
“just posing so they can claim they tried”
I think that is what Breslow and the Sox have done all offseason.
Fever Pitch Guy
Life – No different than the past few trade deadlines.
This one made me laugh the hardest, Scherzer to the Red Sox.
985thesportshub.com/2021/07/27/the-red-sox-are-rep…
Poolhalljunkies
The true sign of people giving up on this team will be comments in places like this drop to next to nothing
Trollfree
Pool – I disagree. For four years I practically stood alone complaining about Bloom and what he was doing and Cora the serial cheater with nobody at my side.
I have lots of folks seeing things my way now and I think it’s going to grow as the situation continues to become more obvious.
Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree
We’re listening to anything Marino Pepen says at this point? That’s what we’re doing?
Fever Pitch Guy
Pedro – No, we are not.
We know better.
butch779988
Monty would be a nice addition and durable, but he’s really a #2/3 and never won more than 10 games in a season his whole career.
Fever Pitch Guy
butch – Hence the reason why Monty will likely get $100M less than Snell.
Trollfree
Fever – True and we DO NEED a SP2 so he fits unlike Giolito and O’Neill.
Monty would be great but he’s a very, very long shot. Young is a great GM in Texas and he’s playing the waiting game because he’s called Boras’ bluff knowing both sides want Monty in Texas to win a 2nd ring.
SteveZ
I don’t understand the calls to boycott the team. Yes, I wish the Sox would have improved more by now, but the talent market has been crazy. Was Breslow supposed to out-bid the Dodgers? He did out bid the Cubs, but Imanaga chose the latter. Teams have had unreasonable demands in trades. Is there really anybody out there that people would say, if we over paid for that guy, we’d be World Series contenders this year? And there is still time. I am confident the team Breslow gives us will fare better than the last two years, a step in the right direction.
PKCasimir
Heavens to Betsy, a voice of reason and sanity. Talk about an outlier when it comes to Red Sox comments on this forum.
JoeBrady
I don’t understand the calls to boycott the team.
========================
I’ve been rooting for them in a lot worst times than now. There is no doubt in my mind that they seem completely disorganized and off message, but even without signing anyone, we’ll be ‘okay’ and the real fun probably doesn’t happen until 2025 anyway.
Trollfree
Joe – Wake up there is no REAL FUN in the future. This is the early 60s all over again. This is a stripped down roster whose only hope is that DD’s young stars all turn into all-stars before Breslow sits them or trades them.
There is no future with Cora as manager and Devers at 3B. There is just pain.
Fever Pitch Guy
Steve – Breslow did NOT outbid Shota. He offered him only 2 years guaranteed, while Shota got 4 years guaranteed with the Cubs. Breslow’s slightly higher AAV is irrelevant when you’re comparing 2 years to 4.
And the Red Sox couldn’t outbid the Royals for Wacha or Lugo? Seriously?
Trollfree
SteveZ – Sounds like you might be one of those clowns that said the same about Bloom. How did that turn out? Blind faith in a GM you don’t know is pure stupidity.
Here is why I am complaining. Breslow has two no cost moves in firing Cora and moving Devers to DH. He’s had his job long enough to do both so that suggests he won’t and that means he’s not worthy of the job.
There are 3 critical things the Red Sox need this off season:
1 – SP1
2 – SP2
3 – 3B
The team had $103.495MM before Breslow wasted money on Grissom, Giolito and O’Neill. That’s enough to get TWO TOP FLIGHT SPs and a TOP FLIGHT 3B. He also successfully dumped Verdugo but not Yoshi’s $18MM which is a redundant cost.
TIME IS NOT THE ANSWER. It wasn’t with Bloom and it won’t be with Breslow. DD stepped in and made things happen immediately. That led to more actions that led to 3 division titles and a ring. Bloom did nothing except tear down the club which led to 3 last place finishes in 4 years. Now Breslow is doing nothing.
Evaluate the trends. Is Breslow more like DD or Bloom? The answer is Bloom so the expectation is set and the anger should be boiling not waiting patiently for Breslow to suddenly grow a set and do what the team needs. If he fires Cora and moved Devers, I can say there is a glimmer of hope but until he does, he’s just the latest jerk to be hired by the owners to do nothing to make Boston great again.
Bnickles127
Red Sox getting a taste of the mariners fan offseason, it’s awfully brutal to follow
Blackpink in the area
The Mariners missed the playoffs by 1 game and missed winning the division by 1 game to the eventual champion Rangers. The Red Sox were last in their division. The Red Sox have 4 championships in the last 20 years the Mariners have never even made it to the World Series.
There is no excuse for the Mariners offseason.
BaseballisLife
The Red Sox have over $530 million in revenue. There is no reason for keeping payroll this low except to suck off profits to pay for FSG’s other sports teams. Its truly sickening.
Blackpink in the area
Revenue is not profit.
GASoxFan
Ownership’s profit is distorted anyways due to their interests in nesn…
BaseballisLife
We know with certainty that all non-player related costs run under $140 million because both teams that are required by law to open their books because they are owned by a publicly owned corporation are in the $130-134 million range.
For years the measure of how much is spent on player salaries in all major sports has been around 50% of gross revenue. The Sox are $90 million under that number as of today.
In the NFL, NBA, and NHL its in the CBA that they have to spend that much on player payroll.
Blackpink in the area
That math don’t math
GASoxFan
I disagree Baseball, the problem with using the blue jays and braves as examples is they’re both comparable tier teams.
I’d expect the top big markets to spend more, and the bottom tier teams to spend less.
Some teams are more active internationally than others as well.
What we do know is boston has plenty of money coming in, and their 26 man payroll is about $70m light.
We also know that anyone who does not think the team is trying as hard as it can to win and improve is labelled a liar by team executives, and, fans attending ballgames are being sold a ‘fenway experience’ not a team trying to win a ballgame.
Trollfree
GA – Well said.
To set the record straight. The Revenue numbers are not total revenues they are baseball revenues. Check the things they include. I think you will find it’s a small part of the REAL revenue generated. Likewise, the quoted profits are ONLY for baseball operations not the total baseball revenue stream.
Latest estimates for Boston’s ACTUAL profits was $380MM versus the Dodgers who were over $500MM per year and the Yankees who exceeded $700MM per year. Is it any wonder why both teams are comfortable going over the CAP and paying luxury tax?
Any money spent reduces the profits, it DOES NOT put the team into a negative situation. Boston could spend like NY and LAD and reduce their $380MM of profits but they prefer to use them elsewhere rather than re-investing in the team.
That’s a great reason as a fan paying the high prices for everything Boston Red Sox to complain about NOT getting what you want in the off season. Soto would have been an awesome add, Yamamoto, Ohtani would have been great adds but remember we have the ugly manager, the ball park not conducive to pitching and an ownership that fired a guy after winning 3 division titles and a ring. Why would a free agent come to Boston? They would need to be all about money and Boston would have to pay a premium or they would need to have ties to the history of the Red Sox maybe living in New England or a parent that played in the Red Sox organization. Otherwise, Pittsburgh and Kansas City look more appealing than Boston. At least they don’t have Cora and a crap 3B killing the defense for his own ego.
WiffleBall
Red Sox will sign Monty and Snell, then trade for Nolan Arenado. They’ll sign Bellinger, and swap prospects to the Angels for Trout. Let’s do it, Breslow! You’re the king! The AL East is yours for the taking!
BeeCarbo
Wiffle, I love hearing (reading) both ends of the spectrum. Keep up the optimism, though I know it’s TiC.
WiffleBall
Thanks! I think if they can swing a trade for Ozuna, they’re shoo-ins to win the division and make a deep playoff run. I even think they could beat the mighty Dodgers, who may have to defer their next WS win to 2045 in order to get to the WS now.
Trollfree
WiffleBall – Thanks for using my Arenado deal in your rant!!
Why would we want the greatest defensive 3B or all time and a guy with less money owed when we can continue to watch Devers misplay 50 or more balls each year and pay him money comparable to a superstar while he puts up a 126 OPS+!!! Sarcasm always works. Nice post.
drasco036
The Red Sox really have done this to themselves by not trading Martinez, Xander, Devers and Eovaldi when they had the chance.
Ownership/management did not take an honest look at the team going into the season or at the trade deadline. There could be an excuse for extending Devers, not having a clear message from ownership on spending but not selling at the deadline was a huge mistake.
Trollfree
drascsoo36 – They did pull a Barney Fife and shoot themselves in the foot.
The Devers deal you reference I believe was the only time ownership told Bloom what to do. He wanted to totally dismantle the 2018 champs and I believe he planned on letting Devers go after 2024. I wish he would have done that so a reasonable offer could have been made for Devers. Ownership has reacted poorly to fan feedback in the past and that’s why Dombrowski inherited $41MM of dead contracts from Cherington. Devers is a dead contract waiting to happen. Nobody considered how well he might perform without his good buddy Bogey and without all the protection he’s had since 2018. They thought 2021 was his future and then he proved how much he needed those other guys around him to perform well. Now we have 10 years of a guy who should be making $20MM to $25MM as a good DH not $30MM like a star 3B. He can’t field. 10 years is enough proof. He’s a DH whether he looks in the mirror and sees it or not.
Cohn Joppolella
Madbum!
warnbeeb
I think he’s waiting for a major league deal as he has Boras as an agent, but the Saux should hold out and offer Spencer Turnbull a minor league contract with an invite to Spring Training.
sippycups
No. Stay away.
Rangers gonna re sign Monty.
CheapBloom
I just don’t get it. Boston is one frontline starter away from being a contender for the wild card. Why are they so reluctant to sign one, whether it be via trade or free agency. I totally understand wanting to build sustained competitivenessvia the farm and such, but when you are a fringe playoff team, why not just bite the bullet and overpay a top tier starting pitcher? Wtf are we doing here? It seems to me they are using the excuse of wanting to build for the future to justify being cheap and lining their own pockets.
Salvi
“I just don’t get it”
The price for Big Name FAs is ‘X’ for most every team. The price is ‘X + 25%’ for the Red Sox. Boston is usually the least desirable destination of players for various reasons.
What isnt there to get? Accept this point and it all makes sense.
Trollfree
Cheap – You said it all with your first comment!!!
YOU DON’T GET IT!!!!!
This team has no SP1 no SP2 and no 3B.
If they had those three things and fired Cora I would agree that they have a shot at the playoffs. Right now, they are a top 5 pick in the 2025 draft team.
The first step in building sustained winning is to win. They won four straight years and had that sustained winning they claim to be seeking and threw it all away. NOBODY convinces me that’s what they want because they had it and flushed it down the toilet.
Many fans who don’t get the game can be told anything and have been by Bloom and his marketing team. They were sold a fairy tale and forgot to watch what was ACTUALLY happening as Bloom gutted the 2018 champs.
Now, the fairy tale starts up again. The mysterious greatness in the future theme is being spread like four years ago. Phrases like stocking the pipeline are once again showing their ugly faces. The pipeline doesn’t get stocked by hiring a GM like Bloom or Breslow to bring in talent. It gets stocked by the draft which happens regardless of who the GM is. Bloom didn’t add a single start player through trade. His best prospects came from the draft where the quality of the player is reversely proportional to the quality of the MLB team. By tanking he got better shots at quality players. So far, he’s proven to be a bad drafter compared to his predecessor. Casas was a first round pick by DD. It was a late round pick. Both Mayer and Yorke were earlier in the first round picks. One is a total bust and Mayer has been very ordinary. Casas could be an all-star if he keeps progressing.
So recognize reality vs BS. Bloom was all BS. Breslow has been all BS so far. He needs to do SOMETHING to make the team better. Fire Cora, move Devers or just trade for Burnes. DO SOMETHING that improves the team because the O’Neill, Giolito and Grissom for $17MM aren’t big impact items.
sacrifice
Liberals destroy everything.
Add Werner and Henry to the list.
WiffleBall
Liberals are a joke. That’s why i’m a leftist. Leftists only destroy the stuff worth destroying. Like capitalism and ghost runners in extra innings.
alumofuf
The Red Sox are counting on getting high draft picks for the upcoming next season’s so they don’t want to miss that up by signing a good free agent pitcher. Boy’s it’s going to be a long season and summer.
But, look at the bright side the Pats are already settling into last place for future years to get those draft spots. Going to be a fun summer and winter in Boston.
Thec’s
Devers is a good signing for his age but needs to DH! Montgomery is not a 30 million a year pitcher and at this point I would pass. I like Paxton but he should only be signed for a year at around 8 to 10 million. I think that the ownership is going to tank one more year and keep getting higher draft picks! They see how the O’s, Alanta, Houston, Toronto and the Dodgers. If you want to compete for a very long time you have to have pipeline of good cheap players. Bloom has developed this and knew how to draft out of slot, his mistake however was he did not handle the FA market very well or resetting the salary cap! First thing is first let’s fix the defense first. The defense made our pitching worse. I think we will see accelerated spending in the future once the core is set. Just be patient and maybe you will get a chance to see a game on the cheap!
Trollfree
Thec – DEVERS IS NOT A GOOD SIGNING IF HE WAS 18, 23, or 28. He’s a slightly above league average DH. His numbers don’t match JD in his prime and people complained he got $22MM. The top DHs in baseball don’t make over $25MM because they don’t play defense. If Devers contract subtracted $1MM for every error over 10 then it would be a good contract, even with the cheating score keepers!!!
Bloom was a blooming idiot. He did absolutely NOTHING right. His drafts sucked, his MLB roster management sucked and he didn’t fire Cora. He tore down the team we are looking for today!!! Remember the 108 win team that should have won 120 but Cora cost them 12 wins? That team could still be in Boston being tweaked annually for less than the CAP.
Don’t ever compliment anything Bloom did, it makes you seem naive.
Let me repeat this one more time…. SPENDING IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!
The problem is effective roster targeting and acquiring of all-star quality resources. $237MM is more than enough to build a WS Champion in Boston right now because there are so many great young, cheap players coming up from the farm system thanks to DD.
Think about all the positions that have long-tern solutions that are a year or two away:
C – Teel
1B – Casas
2B – Grissom
SS – Mayer
3B – NOBODY
LF – Anthony
CF – Duran
RF – Rafaela
DH – Devers but he’s the exception he’s a bloated contract
SP1 – NOBODY
SP2 – NOBODY
SP3 – Bello
SP4 – Houck
SP5 – Crawford
SP6 – Whitlock
SP7 – Pivetta
SP8 – Giolito (2 yrs)
R Reiiever – Martin (1 yr) Winckowski
L Reliever – NOBODY and NOBODY
Closer,- Jansen (1 yr)
We have $60MM right now and Yoshi’s salary if we trade him for prospects. That’s $78MM to get a SP1, SP2 and 3B. at an average cost of $26MM per year. Everything seems broken right now but if we had a quality GM it could be fixed in a heartbeat.
The reality is it won’t be. Cora won’t be fired. Devers won’t be move and this team will finish 5th yet again and be fine with getting a top 5 draft pick rather than take a run at a ring. That’s the reality of where we are today.
BadCo
If Mgmt continues to play the cheap card and like to portray that they are making honest efforts to the fans, it will and has reached the old stage by now. This team has really gotten out of the gate slowly for awhile now, and the ticket prices continue to climb, with very poor results on the field. Good luck keeping your fan base, because they will eventually wake up to how poor the mgmt job is being done!
madmc44
Monty sign with the Rangers–help them win another World Series. John Henry won a few–he’s not interested any more. Sell to your wife–she knows how to create a winner!
Horace Fury
I would suggest many are not understanding the nature of the FO’s (or ownership’s) seeming indifference to picking up another starter or a LH bullpen piece or, indeed, spending any more money at all on pitching. Why the unwillingness to spend? Because they are cheap?–that’s the easy and wrong answer. The answer is Breslow did in three months what Bloom couldn’t do in four years. Breslow has remade the pitching infrastructure with some serious pitching minds in the game, starting with himself but adding Bailey, Willard, and now Boddy. I suspect Breslow wants to show off what this group can do. Think they don’t have the raw material to work with? Their no-name acquisitions this offseason have all been strike-throwers with stuff. Expect a lot of pitchers in the minors to take steps forward–I think they’ll turn Zach Penrod into the LH starter they aren’t paying for so far. But they do need Montgomery, not because he’s an ace, but he’s a solid, durable #2 who’ s been getting better. Breslow should promise the owners that if they give him money for the big lefty, his new crew can remake and improve the existing staffs’ pitches and sequences, which changes the future for the Sox.
Trollfree
Horace = Great speech. I can see you on a table or large box yelling it to the locker room like a scene from Rudy but people can’t buy what you are selling because of our recent history with Bloom. He had all the answers too if you remember the way people talked about him as he destroyed the team.
We went from Champs to an embarrassment. Breslow has to realize nobody gives a rats rear end if he considers himself a great fixer of broken pitchers, they care about winning again. There are moves that could get us to that and then the tweaking can happen. His ego like Bloom’s is driving him to do what’s best for him and not what’s best for the team or the fans. Why not go out and get Burnes as a SP1 and have ONE pillar in the pitching staff to develop around him? Or why not TWO pillars and then massively upgrade everything below that?
Your speech was great but it’s a rationalization for Breslow not doing what’s best for the team at this moment. Fans won’t buy that after experiencing four years of Bloom
Breslow needs a massive victory to rally the fans around him. Until then, he’s just the new guy with lots of long term promises and no improvements.
Devlsh
No offense, but the Red Sox deserve as much attention as the other last place teams who’ve done nothing to improve (i.e. Oakland, Colorado, Washington). Instead, we keep reading again and again the same story: Payroll headed downward and no real substance to any interest in top free agents. The lip service touting the existing pitching staff supports both points.
The Red Sox are now the Rockies, A’s and Nationals. I see no point in hearing more about them until something substantive suggests differently.
justkidding
Well the Red Sox did win 19, 27, and 28 more games than those teams did last year.
Mo Vaughns Jockstrap
The bigger issue seems to be that they have 2 many RH pitchers. There’s already 5 bullpen locks for 8 spots, and Bernardino is the only LH. One of the locks at start of year is a Rule 5 RH that they traded for post draft (intention of him sticking).
Everyone competing for the 5th spot is a RH, with the “losers” headed to the pen. The 2 LH in the minors are Walters and Murphy, more long/innings guys not true relievers.
A LH reliever seems more pressing than a SP or even RHB
Trollfree
Mo – Do LH relievers win as many games as a LH SP1?
We need SP1, SP2, 3B, two LH late inning pitchers.
I agree with your observation about the LF relievers but they aren’t as critical like a SP1 or SP2. Without those two adds, this team doesn’t compete. If they don’t compete then nothing is necessary it’s just an add or subtract to a team going nowhere.
The needs are small and expensive. We have money and players to deal so it could be done but it seems like a long shot under the chaos going on with the owners and front office.
Mo Vaughns Jockstrap
Yes, reliable SP is needed but my point is that there’s no room to sign another pitcher without triggering a series of moves. All the guys competing for the final rotation spot hold a lot of upside potential so it’s not as simple as releasing someone when an SP is signed. They can’t fire sale the in house rotation competition without damaging the value of all those fringe guys.
Hypothetical #2 SP signs, who gets traded? Houck, Pivetta? They’ve already been shopping them and got nothing. What do they get traded for, a RHB OF/DH? What team gives up and everyday RHB OF/DH that plays the corners for Houck and Pivetta?
I’d like a reliable SP at the top of the rotation but I don’t see how one can be signed without a bunch of wheeling and dealing of these RH “SP” on the team. Might not like the existing in-house rotation options but that’s a more complete group than 1 LH reliever.
Trollfree
Mo – Your analysis is very good. If we add at this point it could impact a young pitcher that’s why Giolito was such a bad pick-up. You get 13 pitchers on the 26 man roster.
1 – SP1 EMPTY
2 – SP2 EMPTY
3 – SP3 Bello
4 – SP4 Houck
5 – SP5 Crawford
6 – Depth SP Giolito
7 – Long Relief Pivetta
8 – Stress Inning Whitlock
9 – Right Handed late inning reliever – Martin
10 – RIght Handed late inning reliever – Whickowski
11 – Left Handed late inning reliever – VACANT
12 – Left handed late inning reliever – VACANT
13 – CLoser Jansen
There is your staff. We can swap out Giolito for Sale and the hope was Sale could pitch to the SP2 level. Now we have to hope Giolito can. If he can we only need a SP1.
Here is the challenge with that approach. If we get a SP1 they match vs other SP1 pitchers. Our SP2 if it’s Giolito matches with other SP2 which is a bad match-up because Giolito is more of a SP4 or SP5 with great stuff. Remember how great E-ROD’s stuff was but he could never throw strikes when he needed to and always fluctuated from start to start? Giolito is the right handed version of E-ROD. He’ll be matching up against Grayson Rodriguez of BAL, Rodon of NYY, Civale of TB, Bassitt of TOR and F Valdez of Houston or Nate Eovaldi of Texas unless Scherzer and deGrom are both back. He’s completely over matched. Without a new SP1 then Bello faces that group and Giolito faces even better competition. It’s ugly if we don’t get TWO top of the rotation guys. If we do then Giolito drops to #4 or #5 where he might actually have an advantage. Pivetta is in the last year of his contract so he might be the one traded with Yoshi to set the roster more balanced.
Devers at DH means a new RIGHT HANDED power hitting 3B can be acquired. Chapman is perfect since we would go from the worst defensive 3B to a top 2 defensive 3B. Pitchers might come to Boston if Yoshi and Devers are not fielding.
I agree that Bello, Houck and Crawford should not be touched. They have lots of stuff and lots of control years. Pivetta is paid the most and has one year left so he’s the obvious pick along with prospects who are over-rated. We can use the Friedman model of trading over-rated prospects!
Mo Vaughns Jockstrap
Each their own, but I don’t see that much of an overhaul needed. I also don’t see logic in throwing$200- $300M of SP on this team in 2024. The team isn’t ready to compete for an ALCS and there are to many unproven variables in the existing roster to know what the organization even has.
This org has no clue what it has for pitching, but thats also because it’s new people coming in. A new pitching coach and new FO. The upside of Bailey figuring out just 2 of Whitlock, Houck, Pivetta, Crawford is massive. More impactful than adding a SP2 to this current team.
Like any new regime, it has to take inventory of what exists. I see 2024 being about evaluation, get a wildcard spot, and gain clarity on who’s in Breslows long term plans. Sign a SP1 or 2 next year or use the non-long term assets to go get one.
ramon garciaparra
Goal of building a winning team should not be “quieting fan discord”.
Trollfree
Ramon = Great post!!!
There are people in Red Sox Nation that only want positives. Go on over the wall and make a negative comment and see if you are there the next day or the Athletic. Those idiots are not Red Sox fans they are an extension of the front office and ownership. They aren’t real fans.
Your comment speaks to what’s been wrong for FOUR YEARS. Not enough people complaining when things were bad after firing DD.
Bobby smac9
They’re going to wait on the farm till it’s ready. Cut costs, maximize profit, and wait it out. Purely a business decision. Had they told us fans that from the beginning, Many would have been on board. Instead of Warp speed, this club is on impulse power, and Scotty is twiddling his thumbs with the dilithium crystals intact. The best thing to do is set your phaser on stun and stay home until they can beam up a team that can compete. That’s my plan .
Trollfree
Bobby – What team are you talking about? Wait on the farm? Other than Anthony name one future impact player that is not in the MLB right now.
We have farm pitching in the MLB with Bello, Houck Crawford. We have an entire outfield of farm players now in the majors with Abreu, Duran and Rafaela. We picked up a pre-arb1 2B. There is no reason to wait. We simply need to fill the holes where the future isn’t already in place. We need a Catcher and we have one coming so we are good there, we desperately need a 3B who is a good defender and a big right handed bat and Chapman is available. We need a SP1 and SP2 because we have all other positions in the 13 player pitching staff except two lefty late inning relievers.
Your theoretical BS sounds like the crap we heard from Bloom. Pretending things aren’t good when they are so he tore down the house. except he didn’t realize the number of drafts picks from DD that would come out of the farm system to save the team after he was fired.
Speed is BS when it comes to fixing the current situations. Breslow could have fixed by now but has chosen to do it the long methodical way like Bloom. Except Bloom did a tear down not rebuild. The rebuild happened despite Bloom thanks to DD. All Breslow has to do is find the missing pieces and the broken team is fixed.. 5 easy steps:
1 – Fire Cora and bring in a manager comparable to the new coachs
2 – Moved Devers to DH
3 – Acquire a SP1 and SP2
4 – Acquire a right handed power hitting 3B
5 – Acquire TWO left handed late inning relievers
Those 5 steps will take Boston from 5th in the division to a division contender and a playoff team. They can be done before Spring Training starts and 2024 doesn’t have to be a waste because the GM didn’t have balls to not over think it.
Cute Star Trek analogy but suggesting anything not at warp speed is a complete waste of time like the last four years. I doubt Diehard Red Sox fans will want that. Not after watching four years of tearing down a Championship Team while ownership and the GM preached a great future while the ship sank.
Bobby smac9
@Trollfree/ why then is the budget for players being reduced? I agree with you. Ownership does not. They’re standing pat and hoping fans show up. It’s business. they are rolling the dice with their fan base.
B dog 351
Troll: spot on post . Too many fans are still Bloomwashed on the farm system. I never bought into it . I hear it’s a hard habit to kick .
william-2
A farm system is only as good as two things. It’s real impact on the major league roster solving MLB roster problems at above league average output, or its ability to bring in elite talent through trades.
If the production is less than league average for that position than the prospect failed in its intended purpose. If they never reach the majors and fail to be used towards gaining talent for the team their value was simply playing for a minor league team to fill out its roster. It may sound harsh, but nearly all players at the minor league level are there to fill out a minor league roster. The teams that can increase their percentage of those prospects impacting the major league roster at above league average production have good minor league systems. and the rest do not, regardless of the rank (which is usually complete magic 8 ball land).
Other than those two things every prospect is simply a hypothetical.
Duran Daddy
i love how the farther down you scroll the wilder and longer these comments get
Trollfree
Duran – The twitter group doesn’t have the attention span to stay to the bottom of the comments so the real baseball fans who like to discuss topics are the only ones left.
baseballguru
5 years 130 million for Monty…that’s it or move on
B dog 351
Come on people it’s all about the Fenway experience. What’s better than being surrounded by a bunch of yuppies sporting pink hats and a Devers jersey ( seeing he is the only one that’s been on the team for a while) . Sipping on an overpriced Sam Adam’s and dancing to sweet Caroline as the just lost 3 out 4 to the Royals : let’s go SoX
william-2
The Red Sox are well below the lux tax as we stand. Just a thought, but the idea of dropping payroll further to justify going after any elite talent to solve glaring problems may be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
1) You may not be able to sign any of the talent anyway. There are much better options for players. 2) In the time it takes to match up with another team to make a deal to drop payroll the talent you are targeting may be gone. 3) You could easily acquire the talent you want to solve your problem than worry about making payroll reductions down the line. The calculation for luxury tax isn’t done daily, it is done once a year on a certain day to calculate the penalties (end of the season). You can lower payroll between now and that date and still achieve the same results while ACTUALLY GETTING THE PLAYERS YOU WANTED TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.
Target your needs, Solve roster issues. Eject roster payroll as needed.