Red Sox brass convened with fans and media at their annual Winter Weekend festivities. CEO Sam Kennedy chatted with reporters shortly before the event this evening.
Most notably, Kennedy said the club’s 2024 payroll “probably will be lower than it was in 2023” (link via Chris Cotillo of MassLive). While he indicated that wasn’t a guarantee, it’s the latest signal from Boston officials that they’re not anticipating another major strike this offseason. Chairman Tom Werner hinted similarly earlier in the week when he backtracked on his early-offseason proclamation the team would go “full throttle” this winter.
From a raw payroll perspective, Boston’s projected salary isn’t far off last year’s Opening Day mark. Roster Resource projects the club’s player spending around $178MM. According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, the Sox started last year with a payroll narrowly above $181MM. However, there’s a notable gap between the team’s luxury tax numbers. Roster Resource forecasts the Sox for a CBT figure in the $198MM range this year; Cot’s had their tax number approaching $226MM a season ago.
That’s not a huge distinction, as both are below the base threshold. This year’s CBT markers begin at $237MM. Boston isn’t close to that mark and it doesn’t appear they’re particularly interested in approaching it, at least during the winter. The competitive balance tax number is finalized at year’s end, so in-season acquisitions count against it (albeit on prorated salaries at that point).
Boston narrowly exceeded the luxury tax in 2022. That backfired, as they finished in last place in the AL East. The actual tax payment (roughly $1.2MM) was minimal, but staying above the threshold reduced their draft compensation for the losses of Xander Bogaerts and Nathan Eovaldi in free agency. The Sox dipped below the line last year en route to another 78-84 finish and a second straight last place standing.
That disappointing run led ownership to dismiss Chaim Bloom. They tabbed Craig Breslow to lead baseball operations. The first-year chief baseball officer has played things cautiously thus far. Their only significant free agent signing was a two-year, $38.5MM rebound deal for Lucas Giolito. Boston took on a $5.85MM arbitration salary in the Tyler O’Neill trade. They offloaded part of Chris Sale’s salary in the trade sending him to Atlanta for Vaughn Grissom, though the $10.5MM they saved in that deal would have been deferred for more than 15 years anyhow.
With Sale leaving town not long after Giolito signed, the Sox have the same number of starting pitchers they did at the start of the winter. Breslow admitted earlier this week they’ve found it a “challenge” to bring in rotation help but noted they were still evaluating free agent and trade possibilities.
Rob Bradford of WEEI reports that Jordan Hicks was one of those rotation targets. The hard-throwing righty came off the board last week on a four-year, $44MM pact to the Giants. While Hicks has worked mostly in relief as a big leaguer, San Francisco will give him a shot in the rotation. According to Bradford, the Sox would also have let Hicks battle for a starting spot had he gone to Boston.
They find it challenging because they won’t spend what it takes to field a competitive team. This once awesome ownership team is beyond pathetic. Please sell this team to someone who wants to win.
It certainly does put “full throttle” in a different context….
Man, I feel for you guys, honestly. I know how frustrated I am with the Yankees not doing what it takes while they still have their window open…. Can’t imagine how you guys must feel.
This type of admission is yet another reason they canceled the town hall event for this year.
If Henry is smart he won’t be showing his face at any fan events given how poorly he reacted to being rightfully booed and heckled last winter.
GASox – I think people are finally realizing how much the Red Sox miss Lucky and The Dentist.
Lucky wanted to win badly, always.
And The Dentist knew the proper way to approach PR.
Cancelling the Town Hall 2 weeks before the event after some people already bought tickets, and then the owner backing out two days before the biggest fan event of the season with all those current and former players there is just a horrendous look.
But Henry has been doing this sort of thing more and more the past few years. He doesn’t do the traditional end of season press conference anymore, he doesn’t sit in the owner’s seats near the dugout anymore, he doesn’t travel with them on the road as much anymore, and he almost never does Red Sox interviews of any kind anymore.
On top of that, he’s been openly condescending towards fans by scoffing at the notion that fan sentiment would matter for anything.
He’s really become Mr. Burns.
Some of us have lives so it aint that bad.
Clip – Thank you man. Most of us already knew what they were doing, sucks more for those that didn’t.
Ownership started the offseason with the “FULL Throttle” message to the fans. Then they steadily dropped off the “LL Throttle”.
Their final message was complete the day after the deadline to renew season tickets.
Personally, I don’t care how much they spend. That’s not my problem. The issue is that they are lying through their teeth about their plans. If they would just say we’re rebuilding until we have a sustainable farm for pitching, people would be mad, but at least they would know for sure what’s going on.
Tang – They did come clean just now, but that doesn’t take away the anger from all of their prior lies.
Can you imagine being a season ticketholder who was on the fence about renewing, and just recently renewed because of ownership pretending they want to win. I would be PISSED!
Baseball is way more fun to watch when the redsox are good. I hope a change comes soon, you guys deserve better.- a Yankees fan
Ghost – Thank you for teaching Cards about class.
Cards – All I notice is you seeking attention by trolling another team’s fans.
I don’t see any entitlement here from Sox fans, they just want their team to be reasonable when it comes to spending.
Cards..14 teams had a higher payroll so..about 50% of the league
.what is your point?
12 14..its Still nearly half the league which makes your comment ridiculous since you seem to be implying that very few other teams have as high a payroll as the red sox projection you are using…THATS my point what is yours? make one or go bother people on cardinals related article
Don’t forget the portion of that payroll going to players no longer with the team. To be realistic you need to deduct that to see how much is being spent on the actual lineup for the ball club.
First of all nearly half the league had a bigger payroll than them regardless of teams in thier own division. Second the division argument is weak considering the expanded playoff format. Third what is this nonsense about cable news ? That seems like presumption on your part and very political go peddle your politcal views elsewhere we want nothing to do with them. And yes no red sox fan cares what a cardinals fan thinks about the way the red sox spend money..thats just a fact, you are a troll and a fool
It’s getting “challenging” to even care about the Red Sox.
Four WS in 20 years and FSG should sell the team?
Allrighty….bring back Haywood Sullivan I guess?
Henry found his inner Haywood Sullivan. Smh.
I’ve got to ask….why is Sox mgmt telling the fans that they aren’t spending money? They know this is just going to piss people off, right?
’cause Sam Kennedy is an empty suit + disingenuous, insincere and dumb as a bucket of rocks. the owners pay him to distract the local media from problems that they’ve created themselves – like “full-throttle”.
It’s embarrassing at this point to be honest. And it shows why breslow has been fairly hamstrung this offseason with offers that don’t get it done.
Brass sets the budget and approves any offers that go out spending level-wise.
I hope fans vote with their pocketbooks and don’t buy tickets or nesn.
GA – Why are there so many conflicting stories right now?
The payroll isn’t set as much as it’s a fluid amount based on need. Since Breslow is not filling the needs money is being wasted. If there actually is a cap then why did he over pay for O’Neill, Giloito and Grissom? That makes no sense.
Actions suggest this is on Breslow because he got money for bad deals. The owners have never done quality public speaking and often have contradicted each other so I’m not as concerned about the shuffling that is going on from the owners.
I want Breslow to fire Cora and move Devers to DH to prove he wants to win. He’s done NOTHING to suggest winning is important to him except in the distant future like Bloom.
Sign Snell to 5 years $150MM, sign Chapman to 5 years $125MM and then try to deal Yoshi, Jansen and Martin to reduce the $230MM payroll after getting Chapman and Snell down to something around $200MM if that’s the mandate. Breslow needs to act quickly before Snell and Chapman are gone.
@ Trollfree, I think ownership just handed Cora another excuse for the coming year. Unfortunately, I expect the Sox to extend Cora for long term..
You and I can can argue merits of ohtani v. Yamamoto all day long, but the reality is neither us will see this type of signing for a long time. But it won’t matter, Cora will be here for another decade making bad decisions.
Buy a keg, dude. It is the ’70s and 80s all over again!
I hope you do sign Chapman and thoroughly enjoy his declining production years..
The payroll isn’t set as much as it’s a fluid amount based on need.
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I hope you’re right, but given that just doesn’t seem to be the direction that ownership is going.
Or if they are going to continue to spend, then they have no concept of how to market the team. If we sign Monty, Snell or Chapman, and then add another low-end SP, we can be at the 2023 level, and still be a contender. But it just doesn’t sound that way.
thoroughly enjoy his declining production years..
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Every FA declines, but I am not expecting a precipitous decline. His career bWAR/650 PAs is 5.7, over the past three years 4.1 and 4.4 last year in 581 PAs. I’d expect something along the lines of 4.0, 3.7, 3.4, 2.9 and 2.4.
I’m fine with Devers at 3rd, but Chapman could be a Beltre like signing where the league is over-estimating his decline.
DBH – On the contrary. Cora demanded the front office give him better players because the bad players have been making HIM look bad. He wants to manage in the postseason again, he loves the limelight and adulation, he wants to win Manager of the Year.
As of right now it looks likely the Sox will finish in last place again with a losing record, and management will likely use that as an excuse to fire Cora or move him into the front office.
Lets see if he starts the regular season without a contract extension, usually lame duck managers don’t get extended.
TF – You really need to read up on the comments from Kennedy coming out of Springfield!!
The charade is over, Kennedy acknowledged this year’s payroll will likely be even lower than last year’s.
Their two “biggest” acquisitions, Giolito and O’Neill, are likely free agents after this season. it’s the same one-year crap that has been forced by ownership!! No guaranteed multiple-year contracts for the Red Sox, too much money for John Henry!!
According to Henry all players are too expensive!!
We all knew this after watching free agent after free agent sign with other teams, and here we are with the only pitching change a downgrade (on paper) from Sale to Giolito.
WE ALL KNOW THIS IS WHY DOMBROWSKI LEFT BOSTON!!!!!
Well, they have sock puppets that call their pissing off the roof … rain.
Conflicting stories at that. Werner comes out and says they’re going “full throttle” after free agents this offseason. Everyone assumed they meant it, even though since the pandemic (I’ve espoused my theory about this several times in past posts), the Sox have spent as little as they could get away with without a full-blown mutiny.
Now Kennedy comes out and says they aren’t going to spend significantly on player upgrades. No kidding, we noticed. Does ownership and the front office not discuss their vision or implement a sound strategy? Who runs a business this way? This makes the A’s owner Fisher and the Pirate’s owner Nutting look brilliant by comparison. I thought the Sox had smart people working there. That was my mistake. I’ll not spend a dime to watch this team. Not that they care.
Colorado – The correct answer is Red Sox Nation demanded to know what’s going on with their team, why Sox management is making cost-cutting moves more and more each year and not signing a much needed #1 starting pitcher which was completely contradictory to the message they were sending last September thru November.
In other words, Red Sox Nation wanted ownership to come clean … and they finally did.
Based on his track record, Bloom certainly could have made these same, pointless moves. These are right out of his playbook. We’ve officially entered the phase where Red Sox ownership and management thinks their fan base is stupid. They’re in for quite a shock…..
More like a horror show with the economy going you know where…yeah we’ll all deserve it. Enjoy the rest of the 20’s down to the 30’s…
Remember your ticket says…”for entertainment…”
xpensive – Yes Werner just yesterday admitted they believe tickets will continue to sell well because people will buy them for “The Fenway Experience” rather than watching star players win for the home team.
Well that didn’t happen last year when they were selling packages of 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs and 4 drinks for a combined total of $59.
And ownership is dumb if they don’t realize a big part of what made Fenway fun was the excitement of watching the home team win. When the team performs poorly the crowd sits there quietly and leaves early, not everyone goes to Fenway to get drunk.
The saddest thing is that the Sox are probably one good starter away from being in the hunt for a wildcard spot, and as the Phils showed in 22 and Arizona in 23, if you make the playoffs, you can get hot and make it to the World Series.
Just a crying shame.
What is going on in Boston? I mean, they need to spend smarter more than they need to increase spending, but damn! This is the AL East! Baltimore and Tampa have cornered the market on smart. You either spend or lose.
I mean, this is the same team that just had to trade one of their most talented players in Mookie Betts, and not get a great return. Now that was just plain dumb…
This is the biggest con job this ownership group has ever pulled on the fan base. I hope the fans stay home this year and give John Henry what he deserves – an empty house.
Isn’t Tom Werner the same guy who gutted and drove the Madres into the ground back in the early nineties?
They’ve been expensive and trash for years just tank
2004 2007 2013 and 2018
Stop complaining
For all the people wondering why Red Sox fans are so vocally disdainful of this ownership group: I hope this clears things up. It’s one thing to pare back payroll, but to do it in the same offseason that saw you making promises about World Series contention at its outset is just maddening.
Funny enough, if there’s anyone I feel for most of all in this scenario, it’s Chaim Bloom. We spent four years acting like he was the one playing Scrooge, and now I’m beginning to wonder if Bloom is the only reason we spent anywhere close to the luxury tax line from 2019-2023. I still don’t think Bloom did a good job (imagine using your millions to saddle an organization with Devers, Story, and Yoshida for the next half-decade), but he probably didn’t deserve so much vitriol for being a cheapskate. Clearly, that wasn’t on him.
Still hoping the kids put on a light show in the first few months and force Breslow’s hand at the trade deadline, but man, what a disappointing offseason.
crocus – Nearly all of us knew Bloom was working with a limited budget. He was brought in to work with a much smaller payroll, and Henry assumed Bloom’s time with the Rays was the perfect experience for the job.
The whole reason Dombrowski left was because Henry wanted to go cheap after 2019, that is an undeniable fact. It certainly wasn’t because of a lack of success.
With that said, Bloom still made many blunders and didn’t spend wisely. Firing him was a blessing.
Fever – If Bloom was brought in to reduce payroll why did it go up so much when he was GM?
There is no evidence that payroll has been an issue. It’s another misdirection by the marketing group of the Red Sox. Mookie was not going to be paid, DD didn’t want to NOT put his best team on the field so he got fired. They didn’t want to pay Mookie because he confronted them on racism
Bloom didn’t blunder. He did what he wanted to do. He remade the roster in his image just like he always planned to. He cut all the 2018 champs and ownership forced him to keep Devers the worst of their best players.
Lets stop rewriting history to fit the payroll narrative.
Pathetic!!!! I won’t spend a single dime on this team again until they stop acting like Boston fans are stupid enough to pay top of the market prices for a piss poor product!
Sorry Boston fans, welcome to cheap billionaire ownership club
Warriors fans have been spoiled by an ownership group that doesn’t need team money to finance their lifestyle.
Joe Lacob has other revenue streams so can pour Warrior money back into the warriors. It’s been a fantastic 10 years to say the least. But pretty rare for an owner to do that.
See Sf Giants owner Gregg Johnson
Richest owner (Trump campaign got more money than any free agent) !
GSW – the biggest grift in the history of the world. What a bunch of suckers sending their hard earned cash over and over again to a man that’s never worked a day in his life.
Good. Please don’t spend more. It would only bring more bloated contract mistakes like Devers, Yoshida, Story, Giolito.
not ready to put Yoshida in that category yet, but fully agree on the other 3.
Chairman Tom Werner hinted similarly earlier in the week when he backtracked on his early-offseason proclamation the team would go “full throttle” this winter.
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What a mess. Like I’ve been saying since the Theo/Tito days, none of these other guys should ever talk to the press. It basically screams out that you have absolutely no grip on the budget. It’s impossible to go from “full throttle” to a 20% cut in a few weeks. If I did that at work, there would be a grease stain where my body use to be.
They should’ve just said they were building to 2025. But even then, will anyone believe them again?
Joe – The problem with saying they are building toward 2025 is they would have to actually build. Right now, they are coasting to 2030.with 2024 being the first stop.
The 20% cut is completely acceptable by me if that includes the following:
1 – Cora is fired
2 – Devers is traded or DH (still think Devers for Tiedermann works)
3 – Jansen is traded for prospects
4 – Yoshi is traded for prospects
5 – Story gets traded for prospects once he proves himself
If they can dump the bad contracts by Bloom then they only have to deal with Breslow’s bad contracts. The money can end at $200MM if we do the cuts and spend on ONE expensive SP. It’s not ideal but it’s a step forward rather than backwards like we are doing now!!.
KingofCards seems very fun at parties
crocus – Awww, that’s not right to say …. you really think he actually gets invited to parties?
Fever – He’s the guy with the beer helmet who gets put in the truck!!!
It was never Bloom’s fault.
Bloom WAS getting much higher payrolls to work with, it was just a poor allocation issue as I’ve said before.
I mean, the guy dumped almost $20m on a washed up JBJ to buy two bottom level lottery ticket prospects.
And he screwed the pooch on the comp picks for Nate and Xander, not to mention the contract extension negotiations on the latter.
Bloom made plenty of high level gaffes in his time here, enough that other teams would’ve fired him too had he worked for them.
Going over the luxury line for Tommy Pham and Tommy Pham alone has to be up there among the crazier things a GM has ever done, too.
GASox – Excellent post!
Just one thing, those higher team payrolls in 2020 and 2021 were due to inherited contracts that Bloom had nothing to do with.
Until 2022, the largest total contract he gave out was $14M to Kike … it doesn’t get much cheaper than that.
Seriously : bloom was an idiot look at the trades or no trades .
Embarrassed to be a Sox fan. They let eovaldi go when he got a decent nut not overpay contract, and they are about to let Duvall and Turner walk after solid years. I’m a 100% sox fan, but at age 36 I haven’t yet seen the Sox go into penny pinching mode until now…hopefully the promising minor leaguers will pan out and we can afford to spend in the next year or two
This team is quickly becoming a joke and JH’s desire to hide and avoid the press and the public does not help things. I would say he might be embarrassed or ashamed to face the media and the fans. He certainly does not have anything to be proud of. I would venture to guess that the 2024 Red Sox might not do better than the 2023 Sox and might do worse, especially with a lower payroll, fewer players that are not a question mark and basically nothing to look forward to from a fan’s perspective.
F.f.,
Considering they’ve basically had a net gain of 0 for pitching, lost offense, and given that guys are going to regress (Duran and Martin are most likely to in my mind), finishing with a worse record is bound to happen.
I think if the rotation has significant injury problems, like in 2022, this is a 100 loss team.
Bad contracts to Sandoval, Ramirez, Price and Sale seem to have soured this team on spending legitimate money. Creating a decent pipeline of players did help pave the way for multiple championships and the team definitely lost their way from that during the Cherington and Dombrowski years. It definitely sucks right now but hopefully the process to sustainability is worth the losing
I was wondering if it’s a common feeing among Sox fans that you all would just rather completely tank and get it over with, rebuild, and get back to winning with a younger club?
That’s a tough pill to swallow though because there’s no real definitive timeline…
I can speak for all Halo fans when I say that we would all swallow that pill if it was actually (finally,God Willing) administered to us..
Trumbo, I hear you bro. I often think back to the California Angels and some of the awesome players (and good teams) they had.
It’s such a drag to see these great teams routed by mismanagement or a lack of winning desire.
I sure wish I was around for the Ryan days. I would have been glued to the screen every start and tried to see him in a game up close. Now I am more depressed. Thanks Clip!!! Come around anytime!! Wait…I jumped into your comment to another poster…I take it back..I brought it on myself.
Me too, Trumbo. I only got to see the tail end of his career, but he was amazing. Just his durability alone was incredible.
But the best was when he taught a young Robin Ventura that you don’t mess with an old Texan! Oh shoot, was that Ventura? I’m doubting myself now…
Lol I had always heard that Ryan was tough as nails. And I think one of his most impressive feats is his 12 career “1 hitters.” Imagine if 3 or 4 of those fell the other way? It would be beyond the stuff of legends..Even though I feel it practically still is.
Clipper – back when bloom was doing his thing I said all along I’d have been OK with it. However, the draft benefits of tanking are no longer guaranteed the way they used to be.
Add to that, I honestly have issues with the idea that ownership would ever invest the way they need to at the back end of the supposed tanking.
This team has enough young players mlb ready or nearly so to form a core going forward. They just need to invest in pitching. And, the Sox have not been a good team at developing pitching. The pipeline lacks the raw materials, and, I honestly don’t think the coaching is up to the task either. Organizationally I’m not sure how long it’d take to have the infrastructure to do it in place, let alone develop the prospects. Sounds like a 10 year plan.
So, my take is no, not anymore. It’s time to invest in FA pitching to be competitive and ride the young bats that are coming up these days. Build that other stuff while you do it, but, start building. It takes a couple offseasons to gather enough FAs to move the needle, look at TEX for the most recent example.
The building and competing don’t need to be mutually exclusive.
Yeah, GA, it’s weird because the Sox {seem} like they really aren’t too far off from at least competing for a WC spot. If a couple guys rebound offensively (like Trevor Story) that could have a huge impact too, obviously. But I know my perspective may not be accurate because it’s casual observance, whereas you guys bleed Sox red…
Clipper – I think you’ve got it about right. The real need for the sox was SP. There’s a ton of raw material to have a top shelf relief corps. Even with regression from Martin, and, Jansen being past his prime, if you shifted Whitlock and Houck into the pen full time it’s a dominant package.
Giolito to me was a better signing than many give credit for just because he’s been dependable and durable. Has an upside to be solid #2+ material, but his floor is to anchor the back end, spare the bullpen, and eat innings dependably.
But the team really needs at least one top shelf ace, if not an extra solid #2/3 guy. If they had that, watch out.
I’ve been diehard sox for as long as I followed baseball, and then, since moving to GA in ’09 I adopted the NL braves as my local/second team back when you got the chess matches with all the PH and double switches due to no dh… it was fun.
But I’ve also always kept an eye on the yanks. Being from western MA and dating some girls from CT who were yanks fans, having a stepfather from up in the Adirondack was a yanks fan, even the grandfather was a yanks fan from his family coming into the states through Ellis back in the 1920s, and, his return to the home country until returning again though NY after WWII, he was a yanks fan.
So, as much as I can enjoy rooting against you guys when we’re battling it out, I’ve always held a grudging appreciation for what the Boss did, and, the frustrations you guys have had at times as well.
At least you’re in the mix, which is more than I can say for us right now lol
I think Breslow is trying to redo the pitching infrastructure in one year. They just brought on Kyle Boddy of Driveline as a consultant, so he joins the new braintrust of Justin Willard (Director of Pitching) and Andrew Bailey, as well as Breslow himself who comes here from a Director of Pitching position (or something like that with the Cubs). I think part of their hesitancy in signing new pitchers–aside from the overweening financial constraints placed by ownership–is Breslow really wants to give his new team an opportunity to tweak pitchers throughout the organization in 2024 and see who can take a step or two forward with their help.
Clipper, I’d take a tank just because it would bring an organizational goal and a direction for the team to move in. We’ve lacked a direction for the franchise for years now, steering towards an abyss.
Thant makes sense, Bud, and to be honest I think I would make the same choice, but I could see this both ways. It almost feels at this point like they’re just repeating a cycle they can’t get out of. I do think Breslow may be more competent at getting you guys ahead than Bloom was.
If you guys could get a couple short-term FAs it may really help bridge that gap until the youth are developed. Fangraphs had them at the #2 Farm as of the end of 2023 I believe.
But I admit, my observations are from an outsider’s perspective.
I can’t tell Yankee fans from RS fans. The NYY usually win a lot of games.
There is no need to tank, or do a complete rebuild, but the impression I am getting the last couple of years is that management has become aware that the blatant weaknesses will either cost sizable investments in long term contracts they are unwilling to make or need to make several painful prospect losing trades. These two options are the solutions, and the Red Sox will simply not do either in any impactful way to check off the major needs. Although a major rebuild may not have been required after 2018, it has now reached a critical mass as to what it would require correcting the state of the team.
I am convinced the Sox have not thought it worthwhile to make a serious attempt to compete in the last couple years, and perhaps the next couple of years as well. Again, they need 2 to 3 starters, and the flaws throughout the roster are bad enough to make them aware they need an extreme outlay of talent or money to provide enough of a boost to make this team even a viably competitive squad.
The division overall is better, while we have not been able to solve even a single need in any long-term way in several years. We are still short 2 to 3 starters, a lefty reliever, a starting mlb second baseman, power, and the defense will still be subpar at 4 of the 8 positions, perhaps as many as 6 depending on the healthiness of the players and inning allocations in the field at catcher, and center.
The last three years the issue has been that the team is 2 quality starters short. We lack power. The defense is abysmal. There is very little team speed. We haven’t had a bonafide elite lefty reliever in the pen since 2013. That is not a typo, it is reality. We have not had an MLB starting second baseman since Pedroia’s’ injury. The team is perhaps the worst team in MLB history at developing top tier pitching, and even if Bello pans out as a solid number 3, we have very little to look forward to in the future. None of these issues are recent, they are lingering persistent weaknesses spanning years and have yet to be addressed.
Although I have no respect for management being completely disingenuous to its fans during these last few years, I agree with them that this team is so highly flawed it would require painful steps, or years of patience to self-correct through internal option until the needs narrow to perhaps being 2 or 3 players away from contention reducing the larger lengthy contracts needed, or the amount of trades needed.
Maybe not a full Baltimore or Houston style tear down, but at least tare it down to the foundation and put up some new drywall, so to speak.
So, William, do you think Breslow is better than Bloom to accomplish that task? He seems more capable to me to do that. What you write makes complete sense to me. When I said “tank” I probably should’ve written “rebuild” instead, in hindsight.
Clipper,
I like what Breslow has done with the Cubs staff. They’ve got a good number of either farm hands or guys they’ve made better. Given the last guy we completely developed to have a high level of success was Lester, I’m hoping Breslow can at least put together a process for developing arms, even if his hands are tied financially.
I knew what you meant Yankee Clipper, but the truth is with this roster tanking is just as viable as rebuilding now. I would not have allowed the situation to reach tanking phase, because it was completely avoidable post 2018 with a couple well placed pitching signings towards the rotation. There are now enough flaws all over this teams build coupled with divisional improvement to perhaps warrant letting this team slip into oblivion rather than piece meal it together at with middling talent.
I think Breslow theoretically should be better able to really analyze and work on the most pressing question in Red Sox history. Why have we not been able to identify, draft, sign, reclaim, and reinvent pitching talent? The who’s who of Red Sox pitching success stories can be places double lined in large type on a post card.
The track record is so bad it is comical. I would look at this issue as the single most important issue to address as a franchise. We need to hire the best pitching minds we can get our hands on throughout the organization and expand our international presence in every respect. The price signing or trading for elite pitching talent is so high that this is undeniably the biggest issue towards the so called “consistent and sustained winning” buzz line we keep hearing.
The Red Sox are gun shy at the higher talent levels with pitching. Whether trading for or signing them. Since we simply are unable to evaluate and draft any talent to fill out rotations and bullpens, we have been using the other teams in the league for decades as our pitching development program.
That being said, I didn’t see the major shakeup in the franchise you would have expected towards a true focus on addressing this Achilles heel when Breslow took over. If this was a major focus, you would have seen a near franchise wide purge of anyone even remotely responsible for scouting, drafting, and working with pitcher development. I am not surprised by this, but it is telling whether you can expect any drastic changes. The failure over so many decades is harder to achieve than even marginal success.
So, I would say Breslow should be better in this area at seeing how historically bad the Red Sox are, but I do not have faith it will improve unless you see the investment, and influx of the minds we would need to tackle this problem. Fenway produces passable lineups. Fenway makes solid lineups look incredible, and so on. I have never been concerned with the Red Sox filling out a lineup. I have never been concerned with the red Sox being able to produce hitters through their program. What I am concerned about is that we win when we have solid pitching coupled with it, and if we aren’t poaching every other team’s pitchers, we have no chance unless we decide that pitching matters enough to produce it and improve it. Not once or twice every couple of decades, but consistently.
I would agree but for one problem. He was hired to run the team, not to run pitching evaluation, and development throughout the franchise. If you saw him scalp everyone when he walked through the door even remotely attached to the Red Sox pitching program, I would have had a lot more optimism. We also would have heard at the winter propaganda powwow right after how we should expect last place again a detailed explanation about how we are going to take all that money we aren’t spending on player talent to fill holes and sinking it all into completely retooling scouting, coaching, and a new franchise wide pitching program.
William = Nice post. If we break down the flaws we can see that there are some glaring flaws that can be fixed without money – Fire Cora and moved Devers to DH 7 years too late.
Fundamental flaws occur when a GM doesn’t balance his roster. Bloom had as many as 3 DHs and didn’t have enough pitching. Breslow also needs pitching so he over spent on a long shot and then got an outfielder for too much money when our greatest depth is in the outfield These illogical moves don’t seem to be slowing down with Breslow but the good news is he can’t eliminate any all-stars like Bloom because Bloom got them all. Yes Devers is still around and being paid 50% above his market value so he can’t be removed from the roster and yes we have a great reliever in Jansen to close games for a sub .500 team but the rest of the team IS NOT GOOD. We have DD’s young farm players who have proven they can compete at the MLB level but they need to establish that now by doing it multiple years. You have a bunch of early picks in the draft from Bloom who have not lived up to the position in the draft that COULD become all-star players but it’s a long shot.
The problem that has occurred in Boston is that all-stars cost big money. Price, Sale and JD were relatively expensive and showed up in the all-star game regularly. They were the foundation of the Red Sox success along with home grown Mookie Betts, Bogey, Benny and Devers. Nate was a wise mid-season pick-up that was all-star level talent. The Red Sox had such a great roster due to the TALENT level and talent costs money. Not all talent can be home grown.
To giveaway your greatest talent in Mookie for wanting a $9MM raise after receiving three consecutive similar raises is why this team self destructed. He earned what he asked for and has proven his worth in LAD.
If ownership chooses to not spend money the fans will create issues for them and the history of bad GMs making albatross contracts will continue. Boston’s win in 2013 set back the organization for years as Cherington panicked and paid bloated salaries for not so talented players. Bloom has levied his contribution to bad salaries with Story, Yoshi and the worst of all of them, Devers.
So fixing the flaws takes the following actions:
1 – Allow the young DD farm players an opportunity to become future all-stars that will form the foundation for the future
2 – STOP spending money on long shot short-term contracts. Deals like Giolito and O’Neill are ego deals not what is best for the organization. If owners want to say no, say it to deals that don’t provide a piece of the long term solution.
3 = Target the best of best players that will be expensive. Go aggressively after them knowing they are the insurance that supports the farm players foundation.
Contention can’t happen until Cora is gone, Devers is at DH or traded and the pitching staff has 2 stud starting pitchers to anchor the young guns.
This isn’t rocket science and maybe if it was Breslow would be better at it. When players talk about hitting the great ones say see the ball and hit it. Great GMs say find the holes and fix them. 2 SPs, 1 3B, 2 lefty relievers and too many redundant position players need to be traded away. Those are the holes now we need Breslow to fix them or get out of the way and bring in someone who will be able to identify them and fix them. This isn’t rocket science, it’s just baseball.
Wow, I see nothing but comments talking about how entitled Red Sox fans are! This is one of the worst trends I see nowadays: asking fans to be okay with bad teams. Let me try to explain why Red Sox fans are not happy right now.
First, no fanbase likes their team losing! The Red Sox have finished in last three out of four years, and have a strong possibility of finish last again this year. My Cleveland Browns friend complained about that team when they went 0-16, and my Detroit Lions friend complained when they did the same thing. Fans of teams don’t want their team to lose!!
Second, this was a management decision. In 2018, the Red Sox had one of the best teams ever assembled. They could have won for years to come if management had wanted to invest in the talent they had acquired. However, management decided to cut payroll by trading many of the assets they signed, traded for, or developed, most famously Mookie Betts, for three players, two of which are not even in the organization anymore.
Third, a poorly built farm system. It’s okay to cut payroll and not be a big market team if you have the assets in the farm, like the Rays. However, the Red Sox don’t have any pitching coming up. This situation leads one to believe that they should invest in free agents and trades for pitchers. But they have been reluctant to do even this. Which leads to the question, what do they plan to do with starting pitching?
Fourth, the decisions they have made to spend money have not been saviors. It’s okay to hand out money to anyone who shows some talents if you do it equally, like the Dodgers. They figure, it doesn’t really matter if ever one of their big money signings works out as long as enough do to win the World Series. The Red Sox, by not spending money, are forcing a hand-full of player to have zero flaws and become saviors of the organization. Any flaws in Devers game, for instance, will be glaring, since there is no one else to cover them. No one can make up for all the flaws of a team, not even Ohtani and Trout.
Finally, fans are fans! They are supposed to be passionate about the franchise and its direction. It’s like telling a Marvel fan “you should just be happy with the less than stellar films that have come out recently, because there were good films a few years ago.” No! People, in general, don’t go to see films they won’t enjoy, and sports fans don’t generally spend their hard earned money on teams that don’t win. This isn’t a new concept; Oakland fans don’t show up, not because they want to see the team move to Las Vegas, but because they don’t want to waste their time! In a capitalist society, ones money is supposed to count for something. If one doesn’t like a product, one doesn’t buy it. Let’s not sit here and throw the label of “entitle” around for any city that has won something. Everyone wants to win, that’s the reason we watch sports!
MasterSwag – I liked what you wrote. I believe the 2018 fall from grace had more to do with the Eckersley/Price confrontation that led to Mookie standing up for Price after ownership publicly disparaged him. Mookie became persona non grata to ownership so when DD insisted we pay him a fair salary and keep our franchise player they fired him and that was the snowball that turned into an avalanche.
The system is not really poorly built like you suggested but it does have a significant set of flaws in the farm system. Farm system ranking are bogus guesses at the future and I don’t pay any attention to them. What I pay attention to is where a player is drafted and how he performs in the low minors where he should dominate if he’s an early pick. That helps set the tone for the future results. The pitching as you pointed out has been an internal problem in the farm system but it has a lot to do with the wrong “old boy” choices of the pitching coaches and less to do with the number of pitchers drafted early in the draft. The frequency of misses when selection a pitcher suggests a drafting issue but having observed this issues for decades I believe it’s a coaching issue more than a drafting issue. STL is successful due to great pitching coaches at most levels of their minors. Boston has a huge problem with nepotism in it’s hiring practices at all levels. Good buddies to a great coach don’t end up being great coaches too. Look at the MLB track record and you can see why I say this. In 2015 Boston hired an outstanding GM with a great track record of building winners. Great choice!! They won 3 divisions and a WS with him after Cherington got lucky and won one and then destroyed the future payroll with many, many bad decisions. Bravo for the HR group for hiring DD.
Since then they replaced an ex-pitcher, ex-pitching coach who was managing an up and coming team so they could become more diverse with an unqualified bench coach who was a horrible player known for taking short-cuts and a guy we later found out was a chronic cheater. The downturn of the Red Sox was greatly boosted by hiring Cora. The embarrassing part of the situation is that DD who provided so much success to the organization was booted unceremoniously out the door by the owners and then Cora was fired with an apologetic “we have to do this” type speech by ownership. Those actions have set the tone for the current Boston Red Sox. Bad hiring choices are a staple of this organization now. That extends down to the farm system where we started this discussion. Without great pitching coaches, you don’t get great pitching. HUGE FLAW.
Fans, your last point, in Boston divide into 3 main groups. Those that suffered long with the Red Sox before 2004, those that were born and young fans 25 years ago and have seen 4 rings in a life time that doesn’t exceed 30 years and those fans that are still so young they’ve seen the success and the massive failure. Each group tends to react differently to the news reports. I’m in the first group and my anger level skyrocketed when Mookie was given away and it hasn’t subsided since, my sons are in group 2 and they preach patience because they know winning from a young age and haven’t seen it disappear for decades, and then there are the very young red sox fans who saw the greatness of 2018 only and then the destruction since. They just want the greatness back The duck boat parade, the winning by the Red Sox and Patriots. They are too young to appreciate the long history but they haven’t won enough to take the patience attitude of the middle group.
If you think about the troll commenting on our discussions it becomes obvious that he’s in group 2 because he sees entitlement. He doesn’t see the decades of frustration and he can’t be in group 3. Maybe, our group 2 set of fans are a bit entitled but I’ll take that over embittered from waiting nearly a half century to see ONE ring.
Trollfree (nice name), thank you so much for your well thought out comment. There do seem to be many flaws in the management and coaching that has led to a significant drop off in production. Certainly firing DD didn’t help. And I am sure there were things behind the scenes that are “unknown” to us (like the Eckersley/Price drama that you mentioned leading to the Betts trade). But I think it is easy to see why the Red Sox fans are angered by the Betts trade. Not only was it a terrible deal in hindsight, but it brings back the whole idea of the curse. Babe Ruth was traded in 1920, Betts was traded in 2020, just one month after the 100 year anniversary. Who wants to wait another 86 years for a championship?
What I notice most about what people say when talking about the Red Sox farm system is its position players, Mayer, Anthony, and Teel, and there doesn’t seem to be any excitement about the pitching they are developing. I believe you could be right that it is the coaching. In any case, the Red Sox won’t be reaping the spoils of any pitching prospects for some time (and possibly not without an overhaul of the coaching staff), so if they want to be competitive in the meantime, it would lead one to believe that they must bring in outside help.
Lastly, thanks for your description of the three groups of fans. I certainly do think the ones who had to suffer through the curse know that success can disappear very quickly.
This is what really irks me .. the fact the Boston redsox were number one in ticket cost yet again.. their stadium is the oldest around so not much maintenance and or money being used there.. the pricing for a family of 4 was almost $400 and the redsox were number 1 so they r making money left and right .. plus the TV contract money .. etc etc and yet they can’t spend money to get a decent pitching rotation?? Ur gonna tell me u couldn’t get Yamamoto especially seeing how alot of japanese people love the redsox their huge in the Japan market so alone they could have gotten back alot of that contract.. fine u didn’t want to sign hi because if the 10 years whatever u cant sign Snell and or Montgomery?? And trade for burnes or Bieber and or cease ?? So u wanna rely on the younger talent ?? First off some aren’t gonna be ready for a few years .. Meyer can’t stay healthy..and secondly what happens when most of the younger players fall flat on their face definitely happens more often than not so what than redsox??? All the BS we deal with as fans is to much .. and I don’t expect to win it every year cuz that’s not happening but what I do expect is for us to compete every year when ur in a division that is one of the toughest in all of MLB .. I expect when ownership.is making guap that they put some of it into the team . Especially because we have a long way to go too catch the Yankees of titles .. and if ownership don’t wanna win no more than time to sell too someone who does wanna win … The Boston franchise deserves better .. us fans deserve better ….
Yamamoto was a drastic overpay given he is a completely unknown commodity in MLB and Snell is looking to eclipse his deal. Montgomery seems to have made it known his preference is to stay in Texas, whether that gets to happen or not is another issue entirely.
Bieber and Burnes are on expiring contracts and Bieber’s arm is a wild card. Burnes is guaranteed to test free agency so why waste prospects there. The White Sox have set an astronomical asking price for Cease and since he’s still on the south side obviously no one is taking that bait.
It’s easy to spend someone else’s money but sometimes these “solutions” to problems create bigger problems
Rsox – Great post. If we could do a deal for Burnes it would have to be contingent on him signing an extension. Maybe a 4 to 6 year deal with an AAV of $25MM to $27MM.
I don’t see Cease as something better than Giolito who is at best a SP3. Since we are knee deep in SP3 to SP5 pitchers, we need to aim higher for our second SP if we could get Burnes.
Spending big money is very tricky. If you don’t get an all-star for big money you hurt your team. Something similar can be said for spending middle money ($15MM to 25MM). Players receiving that type of money need to be far above league average. Our current players in the middle expensive category are:
Trevor Story $23.3MM = 86 OPS+ in BOS, 52 last year
Lucas Giolito $19.25MM – ERA+ last three years 91, 81 and 124
Masataka Yoshida $18MM – 109 OPS+ in first year of MLB play
Chris Sale – $17MM – Won’t throw a pitch for Boston in 2024
Kenley Jansen – $16MM – 42 saves with the last place Red Sox
We have 5 players in the mid range of salaries and only one is performing up to his pay and that’s Kenley Jansen. The money for these 5 players totals $94.55MM in 2024. That is roughly 40% of our available money under the cap which apparently might not be available to Breslow.
Smart spending is smart spending no matter what the price tag is. The main players performing higher than their value are the home grown players since Bloom and Breslow are both terrible at paying the proper cost for talent.
Without a SP1 and SP2 this team has no future just a series of last place finishes coming this decade. Breslow needs to get value when he buys players so maybe he should simply start trading players and try to avoid pay downs because they bite as hard as bad contracts.
Just trade away the veterans already and rebuild. I can’t watch another crap season.
Its as simple as this, the Red Sox are no longer a large market team, and won’t be as long as John Henry is the owner. They’ve decided to stake everything on their top prospects.
M.Kit, “no longer a big market team!” Now that is just hitting below the belt!!
Trumbo – maybe it’d be nicer if we called it what it was: under Henry the Red Sox developed multiple personality disorder.
They’re a big market team who wants to act like the Pirates. Also why FSG, the parent company, entered into a joint agreement with those same pirates on a RSN – they secretly want to learn more about how to BE the Pirates!!!
It all makes sense now!
GASox, I’m curious what you would diagnose the Halo’s as…They are obviously sickly, though it is more difficult to pin down their illness…Why can’t they develop homegrown talent? For starters..
Trumbo – Whelp, let’s see. If they had a medical diagnosis I’d label it as complex pain syndrome.
I think it all stems from allocation of resources, driven in part drop the top. Arte seems to have a thing for wanting fast results, instant gratification. That’s why he meddled in so many of those big $$$ free agent contracts that devoured resources. Wanting to see star power, even though it too often led to underperforming contracts.
That same instant results for money spent desire from ownership explains the problems with investing properly in the farm system. I’m talking player benefits, minor league resources, all of that wasnt a focus for spending because you a) didn’t see a quick return for your $$$, and, b) the overall flameout rate of prospects in general across MLB means spending a good bit on players that never amount to anything.
So, from an organizational standpoint, that influences who you draft – players more advanced in development, but, with lower ceilings are in some ways more desirable because you can get them to the show faster with less damage in that sub-par development system.
At the same time, if an angels milb player has *some* of his tools appearing mlb ready, he gets rushed to the show before he’s truly ready. Again, both to get results/gratification sooner, and, to get him away from subpar development and support and into the mlb club facilities coaches earlier. On the red sox we saw it with guys like swihart, the bat was advanced enough he got pulled early, even though he really needed more time. And the sox did it with others too. But I think the Angels pull the kids early some too, but, for their different reasons. Point being, certain development needs to happen as an everyday player in the minors, and, I think some kids on the angels get pulled too early and lose that opportunity.
Thats my 10,000ft impression on things anyways, an opinion worth less than what you paid for it.
GASox, that was really solid amigo. I appreciate the detailed analysis! I think I even learned a thing or 2 lol. The way you talk about them makes me think you are a Halo fan…?? Or no? You really know them backwards and front. I’ve normally only seen serious fans know a team like that. You didn’t miss a solitary beat though. I agree with all of it.
Trumbo – Thanks for the kind words. Mostly, I’m a fan of baseball. There’s few things in life better than being in a baseball park taking in a game, I don’t care if it’s college, milb, or mlb. They’re all great, just soaking in the atmosphere, sights, smells, sounds, being outside. It gets a little sad as vending pulls back in the 8th inning as you know it’s coming to an end, and, I HATE the ‘extra runner’ stuff for trying to shorten those extra inning games. No such thing as too long of a game in my books.
I won’t pretend to know every organization as well, but, back in the early 2000s we met the Angels in the ALDS it seemed like every other year. Spend that much time head-to-head in the games that matter most, you really start following a team a little closer. I think some of that stuck with me through the years.
Fortunately for us, and not so much for you, we came out on top most of the time.
I was pretty pumped we got Lackey the way we did, and equally disappointed he was traded away how he was. I’ve always felt bad for Trout though, despite all his efforts via team friendly extension and giving it all on the field, I fear he’s one of those rare first ballot HOFers who will never see a ring. And I hope I’m wrong about that one. I’d like to see you guys win a ring with him while he’s still playing.
“It gets a little sad as vending pulls back in the 8th inning as you know it’s coming to an end, and, I HATE the ‘extra runner’ stuff for trying to shorten those extra inning games. No such thing as too long of a game in my books.”
“There’s few things in life better than being in a baseball park taking in a game, I don’t care if it’s college, milb, or mlb. They’re all great, just soaking in the atmosphere, sights, smells, sounds, being outside”
“I fear he’s one of those rare first ballot HOFers who will never see a ring.”
Oh man, we couldn’t be more on the same page…Next you are gonna say you like Fruit Stripes gum and enjoy Chinese food..lol
True on both LOL!
By only gripe with fruit stripes gum is how the intense burst of flavor at the start fades seemingly too quickly. I can remember decades ago the temptation of digging out another stick of the same color to pop in, without removing the first piece, to double down and get another dose of flavor. All to easy to wind up with a big wad in no time.
As for Chinese food, guilty as charged as well. Although, I’ve noticed some fairly wide regional variations in some staples despite the quick restaurants sharing what look like the same pictures and same menus. Up in the northeast you get a lot of boneless spare ribs chopped up in your pork fried rice. Down south? They’re stingy with the pork in many places I’ve gone to, even more so with the onions. Some things you can’t mess up – sweet and sour chicken, the beef/chicken and broccoli, always the same. There was a place down here that did well with the ginger dishes though. The unfortunate thing though is that the wife isn’t much of a fan lol, so, that limits the number of opportunities these days to go out for it.
P.S. GA, I check out a lot of juco and prep games out in SoCal. That is how I know that the area is under-scouted. Especially by the Halo’s. Pro prospects by the dozens go undrafted every year out here. Some of the high school and juco kids are terminators out here and they go unscouted/unsigned. It’s a travesty.
The rapid flavor dissipation and resulting big-wad of Fruit Stripes…If that isn’t one of the bigly serious issues of our time, then I don’t know what is!! Lol That seriously brought back memories of that. And it is refreshing to hear what the Chinese grub is like in other regions, as I am spoiled and have feasted at a lot of the great SoCal Chinese food spots for most of my life!
Shame, not surprising, but shame nonetheless about those kids.
Retraction of milb affiliates, shortening the draft rounds play a role I’m sure, as does a degree of market saturation. Only so much time for area scouts to devote to particular schools, and, I think once there’s an early group of targets they focus in to get a more in depth reading rather than keeping moving.
There’s a LOT of talent in a LOT of schools out your way. I haven’t visited socal in years now. I had a sister who relocated to LA, then the valley, and these days her and her husband who is an astrophysicist turned university professor bought a house somewhere else that the location escapes me at the moment… I blame the chemo lol. But he teaches at Santa Monica College these days as he closes in on retirement, so, has to be somewhat in your neck of the woods since I believe they slowly moved northwards. But a trip to your neck of the woods is overdue. Be a nice opportunity to drag a couple rustfree non-op cars/trucks home with me too.
I don’t even see Fruit Stripe gum around here and haven’t for ages, where do you find it ??? I totally remember it as a kid but haven’t thought about it in ages. Sorry for butting in.
GA, You bring up some good points with the scouting. Santa Monica is all sorts of fun! I hope you get a chance to gallivant around here soon..Beaches, all sorts of great food. I’ll be the guy you see over by the jetty trying to catch crabs but failing. You sound like a million bucks and I hope your treatment helps you feel like it as well!
ISOB, haha I haven’t bought any/seen any in a while. It has to still be in circulation. No way they take that stuff off the market!
Just ran into this Saturday morning:
usatoday.com/story/money/food/2024/01/11/fruit-str…
Trumbo, Moreno refuses to spend on the minor leagues. Worst spring training facility. Smallest scouting staff. One of the smallest baseball operations staff. Little to no technology that all the other teams are using. There was a 5000 word article on The Athletic a while back about the subject. It was linked to on this site.
Obviously the Yankee trolls are out in full force after the set back about payroll. It would be great if it was a fake comment to throw people off a big deal brewing but that’s a weak hope that seems far from reality.
I guess it’s going to be another Ranger year or maybe the Braves. Can’t stand the Yankees and Dodgers. Houston cheats like Cora. Maybe a Cubs revival!! Baltimore might be fun to see win again and make it farther in the playoffs.
JoeBrady give us your prediction for 2024 based on the current team!! Will it be 81 to 100 like last year!!! hahaha I know the spread wasn’t quite that big. Lets hear it.
I say my usual 74 wins. NO SP1 and SP2 really hurts the chances. Add Devers at 3rd and Cora managing and stick a fork in them right now. Possible top 5 pick in the 2025 draft.
Hey Kershaw is available for a mere $37MM just over Giolito and O’Neill’s prices. Maybe the owners could fill the stadium with Dodger fans since Red Sox fans should be staying away in droves.
So if we think logically about how they keep choosing the wrong people and paying too much I just checked available FAs and lets guess the most likely people they will sign.
What don’t we need?
AN OUTFIELDER – Sorry a 2nd OUTFIELDER that hits lefty
Target – Bellinger so he can sit Casas on days when he’s resting
Another SP3 to SP5 for too much money (already have Giolito)
Target – Mike Clevinger Corey Kluber or Paxton
What is out there that we actually need?
SP1 – Snell and Montgomery as FA plus many last year before FA others
3B – Chapman way too obvious. He is a great fielder and we don’t like that. Big right handed bat, we need that so it’s not likely. Great work ethic, going to be tough to fit in with guys like Devers and Cora.
Lefty relievers – Matt Moore? Aaron Loup? He could be our reliever version of O’Neill and Giolito so we should over pay for him!! He was good several years ago!
I know lets land the Chapman brothers = Matt and Aroldis!!! Solves two big problem areas.
Seriously why is the nightmare continuing with a new guy?
My take is Breslow put his foot down after he got thrown under the bus and told the owner he’s not going to be forced into spending big bucks to get all-stars, he wants to do it HIS WAY!!!! Deja vu all over again!!
1/8th Throttle
Gee, thanks for the update, Sam. I had thought there was still a shot until you told us…
This was one of the best off season years in available pitching talent in many years. As I have mentioned many times, the Red Sox are perhaps the worst franchise in the history of the game in developing pitching and there is nearly nothing in the pipeline to count on in the near future. Next year has less options and there will be more competition for those few options at higher prices. The Red Sox most pressing needs were the rotation with as many as three starters needed to prevent poaching from the pen. This remains a last place team. The failure this year to acquire a couple of long term upper tier starters will be felt for at least another 2 years. I am not saying we are a last place team for another 2 to 3 years. I am saying that for the Red Sox to not be a last place team it will require other teams in the division to become considerably worse to the point the are in worse shape than we are.
Well it makes business sense from this years list of free agents. Who would you still sign out of the list of remaining free agents that would really move the needle.
I know most people would say Bellinger but I say buyer beware with him. He’s only into one season of a comeback and he’s asking nearly 300 million.
Then why sign Giolito? Just initiate a full rebuild you got sweet young pieces. Let the kids play and make a bunch of small scale depth signings.
The Sox are going to to lose and have higher draft picks! John Henry has seen how Baltimore and Houston has built from the draft with cheap high end talent, Alanta has this as well. Just hang on a couple more years and we will be on top again!
Thec – Not likely. The tanking thing isn’t a sure bet.
Thec’s56 mins ago
The Sox are going to to lose and have higher draft picks!
=============================
The RS aren’t getting a high draft pick.
It’s BOYCOTT Time from Redsox Nation. Box Score Baseball until further notice! We’re not mad, we’re just the front runner’s to potentially spend in 2024, we’re “targeting” somewhere between now and October of 2024 to being spending but there’s a lot of other fanbases who will be spending this season and it may be that Redsox Nation just stands pat and lives vicariously thought the LA Dodgers, New York, Atlanta and Texas franchises…the timing just doesn’t seem right to spend until further notice. But we’re exploring ways to spend, and perhaps a BOYCOTT is exactly the process with which we can arrive there on day in hopefully the not to distant future. Chow for Now! But it will be “full throttle” spending, we’re planning on pushing all the levers in spending when there’s a reasonable roster to have hope and once again support a competitive baseball team within Fenway Park
Seems like a negotiation leverage ploy
In the past couple days both the Red Sox and Yankees have said they are basically done spending big money…… This smells like a tactic to Bora$$, “you want to wait it out to get top dollar for your clients” … well keep waiting because your games are not working this time. Snell and Monty are both Bora$$ clients…. where are they going to go? Maybe Texas for one, but they still don’t know what their budget is.. Maybe San Fran, but they seem to be making moves with other pitchers and I still think they will sign either Chapman or Bellinger. The Cubs? Doesn’t look like it, Braves? They are at their limit. Dodgers…. you never know, but unlikely. The Mets? Maybe I guess. The Orioles should, but don’t need to get locked in to a 6 year mega deal when they can trade for a starter.
My point is Bora$$ has overplayed his hand again, and the prices for Snell and Monty are going to have to come down. The next two to three weeks will tell the story before pitchers and catchers report. My guess is the Yankees or Sox will still sign one of Snell ..or Monty.
Cooper – I like your thinking on this. I can’t argue it because NOTHING seems right at the moment. We have distinctive holes in the roster and they aren’t being addressed. We have non-financial moves that seem obvious like firing Cora and moving Devers but they aren’t being addressed. Chaos seems to be the word of the day for Boston.
A Boras counter move makes sense if the teams choose to collude unofficially but I’m not sure that’s the case. NYY are at $300MM so they should have stopped spending a while back. Boston spending is an enigma, just like it’s new GM.
With Breslow I feel like all the obvious things we need to do are like a simple math problem of 1 + 2 but Breslow is trying to find a calculator or maybe even a super computer like Frontier. I simply don’t understand why there is no action. If this is truly a game and the next move loses, then lets grab EXACTLY what we need at the wrong price and have a better than 5th place finish on the books in 2024.
I really think that the Sox are not spending on neither one of top pitchers. I think some team like the Angels are going to sign one these pitchers and regret it. Maybe the Phillies sign Snell! I think we will resign Paxton and call it a day.
I mean realistically is anyone really surprised it’s obvious that ownership isn’t willing to spend anymore. It’s an ownership group that has gone from a desire to win to treating the Red Sox team as a piggybank and just another asset to squeeze money out of.
This isn’t a Breslow problem it’s an ownership problem do you really think that if Breslow is green-lit by ownership he wouldn’t already be going hard after Snell or Monty. Of course he would, both pitchers are risky especially Snell but a big market team like Boston should be able to tolerate that risk it’s a shame ownership isn’t willing to do it. I mean Kennedy came out and said as much when he said the Red Sox will probably have a payroll south of last years payroll. That’s an ownership issue not willing to spend.
Unlike some on this site who are already ripping Breslow it’s not his fault we know that now it’s ownership they just aren’t willing to spend like other big market clubs. Breslow has done things that he can control adding Andrew Bailey a very respected pitching coach and Justin Willard a more under the radar radar add but maybe even more important to oversee and implement changes in pitching system wide. Those are smart infrastructure moves. They will pay dividends possibly as soon as this year.
Ownership has been responsible for this sinking ship for years now. It’s like they went full throttle for the first 18 years of ownership then sat back and said that’s good enough now let’s milk this piggy for all it’s worth. It sure seemed like that happened in 2019 when they got rid of the last architect DD. I mean really what kind of ownership gets rid of their rockstar GM less then a year after the hoist the World Series trophy.
A lot of people on here ripped Dombrowski for going all-in. Unbelievable.
Like they say about the lottery, you gotta be in it to win it! Dombrowski was and they did.
Knuckles – Best GM EVER!!! Can’t believe they were too stupid to keep him over a minority issue about Mookie. You don’t giveaway your franchise player. I can hear DD saying it to the owners right before they fired him.
Bruin1012 – I agree with much of what you wrote. My question remains. If Breslow is so hand-cuffed by ownership why waste $42MM on Giolito, O’Neill and Grissom? That’s close to 18% of the payroll and two of three haven’t had a good year recently and the other is a nice young 2B that probably won’t ever be an all-star..
The current situation is impossible to read. We are in total wait and see mode.
Midseason fire sale?
Red Sox fans should be mad at ownership. Either spend to win or being the teardown. Straddling the middle gives them a shot at 4th in the AL East when in-reality they will be picked to finish dead last.
They have a chance to deal some players now and contend in 2026.
So why signed Giolito? You definitely dont want to win so you could have just signed a warm body for much less. Give us the worst team ever and you will see a nice empty ballpark which will help you cut more jobs and keep saving.
The Boston Cheap Sox. Lol
Boston/New England fans aren’t stupid. They demand a solid effort. This “policy” is going to come back and bite John Henry where he sits. This is not a small market region.
I keep coming back to the John Henry quote “Baseball players are expensive”, it is really all you need to know about ownerships philosophy.
It is incredible that he doesn’t see the irony in that statement, when Red Sox ticket prices are among the highest in baseball, concessions and merchandise the same, and NESN isn’t free.
New blood is needed in ownership, but he has no incentive to sell, the Sox are a mega money maker for him.
It’s BOYCOTT TIME Redsox Nation! Turn off the faucets…see you maybe in ST 2025 if they get the message that’s coming now…cheers to the box Score Baseball Fans!
By age 30, all four of Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw and Grienke looked on track to HOF careers, or at least be seriously considered.
Today, of the pitchers over 30 but not finished establishing their legacy, only Cole and deGrom seem to be on that path. Chris Sale looked like he was on that path, but not any more.
Neither Snell nor Montgomery has ever been that caliber.
There’s nobody under 30 who has enough track record to start thinking Hall. Guys like Cease and Webb haven’t shown they can excel year after year.
My point is, there simply are no established Ace quality starters available, worth the kind of money Boston would need to spend. While I’m frustrated that Breslow hasn’t made a bold move, I can understand why. Maybe next year some of these promising younger pitchers will have a longer track record, and will become available by trade or in FA.
Who Kennedy ? Any relation to Ted, Caroline, and the former irritating MTV VJ, now Fox News screed?
No Theo this is one of the Skakel’s.
Trumbo – Wow haven’t heard that name in ages, talk about getting away with murder.
I’m not a Sox fan by any means, but why would the FO say that they would be going “full throttle” in the off-season only to do a complete 180 and say they were cutting payroll just a few short months later?