The Giants’ offseason hasn’t necessarily been inactive, but it also hardly hasn’t played out as many fans would’ve expected when president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi kicked off the winter by stating a need to think differently, specifically with regard to the team’s roster construction.
The Giants made one big splash with their December signing of star KBO outfielder Jung Hoo Lee on a six-year deal, but the rest of their additions have been smaller scale in nature. Jordan Hicks, the hardest-throwing reliever on the market, was signed to a four-year deal. The Giants, despite having just one dependable source of innings (ace Logan Webb), plan to stretch the oft-injured Hicks out as a starter. Last year’s 65 2/3 innings were his most since a career-high 77 2/3 frames as a rookie in 2018. San Francisco also added backup catcher Tom Murphy on a two-year deal and acquired former AL Cy Young winner Robbie Ray (who’s rehabbing from Tommy John surgery) in a trade with the Mariners that dumped the contracts of Mitch Haniger and Anthony DeSclafani.
That’s a fair bit of activity, but the Giants are still teeming with questions about the composition of both the lineup and the rotation. It doesn’t appear they consider their offense to be a finished product, however. San Francisco made a “late run” at Rhys Hoskins before he signed with the Brewers, Jon Heyman of the New York Post reports. Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle hears the same but cautions that their offer “wasn’t close” to the two-year, $34MM deal Hoskins inked in Milwaukee. That pact also contains an opt-out provision following the 2024 season.
While the Giants have given opt-out clauses perhaps more regularly than any other team in MLB in recent years — e.g. Haniger, Carlos Rodon, Michael Conforto, Sean Manaea, Ross Stripling — Slusser reports that the team is trying to move away from that contract mold. (Lee’s deal also contains an opt-out, though that comes after four years as opposed to the short-term nature of the others just listed.) Whether it was the lack of an opt-out or reluctance to match the years/dollars on the deal, Hoskins preferred the Brewers’ offer and will spend at least the 2024 season in Milwaukee.
The Giants may have missed on Hoskins — an all too familiar refrain for their fans — but mere interest in the longtime Phillies slugger shows that the Giants remain interested in the possibility of adding a bat to the lineup at either first base or designated hitter. The market still offers quite a few options at both positions. MLBTR’s Anthony Franco ran through some of the top unsigned first basemen earlier today (including old friend Brandon Belt), while DH types still on the market include Justin Turner, J.D. Martinez and Jorge Soler. Last year’s primary designated hitter, Joc Pederson, agreed to a one-year deal with the division-rival Diamondbacks just yesterday.
That said, Slusser also writes that third baseman Matt Chapman remains the Giants’ “top position-player target.” The 30-year-old, two-time Platinum Glove winner has ties to multiple Giants higher-ups; he was drafted by the Athletics when Zaidi was still an assistant GM in Oakland, and new Giants skipper Bob Melvin is obviously quite familiar with Chapman after managing him for the first five seasons of the third baseman’s career with the A’s. Zaidi has been focused on upgrading the team’s defense in addition to deepening his lineup, and Chapman could potentially check both boxes — particularly if he’s able to bounce back from the finger injury he sustained in the weight room in early August, which surely contributed to a disastrous finish at the plate (.183/.259/.318 over his final 139 plate appearances).
There’s still a fair bit of offseason left, but San Francisco’s options — particularly on the free agent market — have dwindled while quite a few needs remain unaddressed. The club hasn’t meaningfully upgraded its power production or added any stable innings behind Webb. The rotation behind the Cy Young runner-up is currently a hodgepodge of swingman Ross Stripling, top prospect Kyle Harrison, 26-year-old Keaton Winn (42 1/3 career innings) and the aforementioned Hicks, who’s made all of eight starts in his MLB career. Alex Cobb should be back in the first half, and Ray could return after the All-Star break, but the Giants have spent more than $165MM in free agency so far and the roster doesn’t look definitively better than it did in 2023 when they lost 83 games.
88 Brooklyn Dodgers
If they just sign Trevor (Bauer Outage), then they will be right back in World Series contention.
pogo
You have to break up the word “con…..tension”
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Thumbs up for Randy V
goldenstatelaw
Can you imagine the heads that will pop in the SF community. I say, sign him and insist on 3 years.
goldenstatelaw
That will get interest and better yet controversy. Ur a business embrace it. I’m a life long G fan, a bruin, and yes women can and do consent and embrace rough sex.
TB will return eventually- or should – Farhan show me some huevos please.
And no – not misogynistic – very feminist
JackStrawb
Sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but contemporary feminism is thoroughly misogynistic.
Tacoshells
Larry Baer approves this signing
Jabronie23
Lol you people need to give up on this fantasy. He’s never coming back. Just accept it and move on with your lives
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I don’t care if Bauer comes back or not.
I mock the people who pick Bauer as their cause because Bauer was always a piece of shoe even before the last woman used him as a mark.
But I also feel like his suspension was the right length based upon multiple allegations and a long history but with the last allegation blowing up.
So the guy has done his well deserved suspension and each owner should decide if he is good or bad for business at this point. I think in California, he would be bad for business. Mookie publicly made a positive comment about Trevor but it was well known that TB was not well liked in the clubhouse or around the league. So I think in an audition, he is going to have to do really well to have shot. But guys like Ozuna and Arnoldis have jobs, and Julio Urias will probably be back in 2025 or 2026.
So if you are too worried about Trevor, get a real cause to blog about. There are plenty of people who need your support more than this guy. But he had also served his suspension, so let the market decide what’s next.
1984wasntamanual
“But I also feel like his suspension was the right length based upon multiple allegations”
The fact that all it takes is allegations should concern you.
drasco036
Bauer got raked over the coals because Manfred hates him and finally got his reason to suspend him. Bauer has always critical of MLB and was never afraid to call them out publicly for their hypocrisy.
It’s funny to me that MLB supported, brought back, players who’ve done FAR worse than having consensual rough intercourse.
antibelt
Urias isn’t suspended yet. There were no charges.
Rexhudler86
Bauer is going to have to wait until his last case is resolved, I do believe that he partakes in rough intercourse, and he needs to tighten that up with his status or moving forward if a team signs him, he just ruffled to many feathers and I believe this has humbled him. Most likely playing in Japan for another year.
BlueSkies_LA
No other cases remain to be resolved. The road back from violations of MLB employment policies has always been the same. Everybody else has taken it, but he refuses to, so his lack of employability is entirely down to him.
drasco036
His lack of employment is because Manfred railroaded him. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Bauer doesn’t file a lawsuit against Manfred/MLB.
Blue Baron
@1984wasntamanual: Nothing new about that.
In 1921, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver, Ed Cicotte, and the other five White Sox players accused of accepting bribes to throw the 1919 World Series were acquitted in a court of law.
However, Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis banned them from MLB for life for the allegations and “regardless of the verdict of juries…no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball.”
BlueSkies_LA
Unfounded conspiracy theories come to baseball. So sad. You win today’s big frowny 🙁
Blue Baron
@Beach Fan: In your pipe dreams. Go ahead, spark up another bowl.
88 Brooklyn Dodgers
That’s enough, blue barron. Stop posting.
Blue Baron
That’s more than enough from you.
Get over yourself and dial down the hostility.
And it’s BARON.
88 Brooklyn Dodgers
No more comments until Monday.
Blue Baron
OK. Good for you.
But you are not my boss, so I will post as I see fit.
Datashark
Even with Bauer – they lack POWER bats….hardly a run producer in the lineup
Dingrrrs
Just think of all the money Zaidi is saving his billionaire employers though! Winning isn’t everything.
Highwaymenace
Horrible take. The giants are one of the top spending teams of the last several decades. They operated at a loss for years defending World Series runs and privately financing the best park in the league. God forbid they actually turn a profit at some point. They agreed to the exact same contract with Ohtani as the dodgers, but he chose LA.
Stupid communists making stupid comments.
DanUgglasRing
Communist is a bit of a leap but go ahead I guess.
1984wasntamanual
You must be new to the comment section here.
frugalfarhan
You must be related to one of the hundred owners or so that look at this as an investment and don’t really care why the idiot fans keep showing up and paying ridiculous prices. This team has never lost money and the stadium was paid off years ago
TheBull
The Giants do spend money. That is true. Zaidi spent 200 million on a huge Pile of Asss. I’m not sure there is a worse 40 man roster in MLB.. This says more about Zaidi’s judgement about talent then it does about ownership
They were bad last year. And this year they’ll be worse
Jean Matrac
“I’m not sure there is a worse 40 man roster in MLB.”
Well the Fangraphs ZIPS projection disagrees with that bit of hyperbole. Their assessment was the Giants have a solid team, that lacks stars. That means a team with a high floor, but without a high ceiling.
Zaidi has been doing everything he can to sign stars. And while he failed with Ohtani and Yamamoto, so did half a dozen other teams. If a star wants to play in LA, there’s nothing that teams in NY, Philly, Boston, Chicago, or SF can do anything about it.
TheBull
I should have said “I’m not sure there is a worse 40 man roster in MLB.for 180-200 Mllion”
The Roster is BAD
ZIPS? LOL
To quote Dan Szymborski
“ZiPS team projection misses in history missed by an average of 22.1 wins”
Baseball is Not played on a computer.
SF Giants roster is terrible. This is a 4th place team that will struggle to finish over .500
TheBull
“ZiPS team projection misses in history missed by an average of 22.1 wins”
For Clarity, This quote is about ‘collective misses ” ( Multiple teams)
Jean Matrac
Yeah. way to harp on the straw man. I said nothing about the projection for next year. I only wrote about their assessment of the current team. Thanks for trying so hard though.
Dingrrrs
They definitely have not done everything they could to sign top talent. They took a couple years off, calculating that they could put out a mediocre team and fans would still show up. All we have to do is diddle around with these analytics and we’ll save you $50M! Meanwhile the Dodgers grew and got better, and now everyone wants to sign there. It’s a bit late in the game to be trying to lure talent when it’s clear where you’re priorities lie, grossly mistaken as they are.
its_happening
You used a projection as a fact. Bull let you off easy.
Deke
@dingerrrs you absolutely NAILED IT! To add to your comment they also play a style of baseball (mix and match math ball) that players don’t like. Players want consistency and playing time. Not playing or being yanked out of a game because the computer says so, isn’t what players like.
I wish more people spoke about what you pointed out.
Jean Matrac
“You used a projection as a fact.”
I absolutely did not. I used no projection figures whatsoever. I referred to the part of the Fangraphs article that assessed the current team, not their projection of what they might do. Learn to understand what you read
its_happening
You used projection as a fact, stop it.
Jean Matrac
How about a quote from me that shows that? Please, show me where I used any projection figures. Apparently you’re just a little too clueless to understand.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The Giants are not a cheap team and their record of success on the last couple decades is unrefuted.
I say this with my three favorite teams in order being Cubs, Dodgers and As.
The Dodgers have had a remarkable last decade of being one of the best regular season teams in baseball history. The one year the Giants won the Dodgers were just a game behind.
This upcoming year, it is really hard for me to imagine the Giants with more than around 74 wins, well ahead of the Rockies but no higher than fourth in a stacked division.
For that reason, as a big market team, Giants should not rebuild but still should spend money on younger acquisitions as part of a long term play.
Unlike the Dodgers where adding Ohtani may get them to 110 regular season wins again, the Giants at this brief moment in time are more like the Angels where Ohtani would have been a huge draw, but not enough to get to a World Series.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@Manny I hope the Mariners are your 4th favorite team then!
its_happening
It’s not about being cheap it’s about being smart. Giants are not. But glad to know you have 3 favourite teams that added nothing to this conversation.
drasco036
The Giants actually should rebuild, IMO.
Giants have Logan Webb but not much else in terms of long term assets that have solidified their spot on the team for a long haul. They should target two year plan, or even a one year plan, selling off guys like Davis, Conforto, Yaz, Flores, Cobb and Wood at the deadline then go all in on Soto and Alonso next off season
If the Giants clear as much money as possible and add some potential long term player via trade, going all in on Soto, Alonso, a TOR starter and get Ray “back” to go with Webb? That’s the direction I would look.
its_happening
They need to fire Zaidi (Blue Jays will hire him, probably). Get someone who has an actual baseball background with an openness to analytics. Easier to teach analytics to a baseball person than vice versa.
And yes to rebuild.
JackStrawb
“Communist”?
Americans are imbeciles. Even the most rudimentary terms completely elude them.
And no, “socialism” does not mean “anything about government I don’t like.”
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Well Jack; if you didn’t know this already, anybody to the left of center…plus all centrists…and all RINO’s…are actually red commie marxist pedophile groomers who want to steal your hard earned money (and your guns) so they can change their gender at will and hang out in Target bathrooms.
D-Nice
He was being sarcastic (the original post)
youngliam
Sure, they spend more than small market teams but don’t spend enough considering their market and compared to teams in similar situations. They are printing money down there with all those properties they’re developing and the park is fully paid off now. Barry Bonds alone paid for that stadium. They took care of their vets who won those rings, and they are all gone now. They can’t ride that wave anymore it’s been a decade since the last ring. Time to get their act together and spend or keep watching other teams get ahead in free agency every offseason. No big players want to join a team who refuses to put players around them.
Blackpink in the area
Not impressed at all with the Giants offseason so far.
Signed a guy from Korea that may or may not be able to hit MLB pitching for a LOT of money and years.
Signed a reliever and announced they were going to use him as a starter. As if the Cardinals hadn’t already tried that with him and failed.
Traded for a guy with a giant contract who at best will be ready to pitch by mid season.
The Murphy signing was good I suppose.
Not too impressed. They spent a lot of money and don’t seem to have improved all that much. They need to make another big move. At least.
Jean Matrac
Blackpink in the area, Are you saying it didn’t work for the Cards, so no one should ever again try to use Hicks as a starter? There’s a big reason why it didn’t work in StL.
Relievers becoming SPs need to be stretched out. The years that the Cards tried it was the year that the players were locked out, and ST started late and was abbreviated. That was significantly less that ideal for Hicks’ conversion.
It may not work out, but to reject the idea out hand is close-minded. And if it doesn’t work out they still got the second best reliever on the market.
Blackpink in the area
Hicks has enough trouble finding the strike zone as a reliever. He’s really talented huge upside but I would focus on him doing what he’s best at and that’s getting 3 outs at a time.
The way I see it he will take Cobbs spot for a month. Cobb will get healthy Hicks will be averaging 4 innings a start and he will go back to the pen.
Jean Matrac
Is it better to have Hicks as a SP, or not have him at all? It was his desire to start. He was going to sign with the team that let him try.
Blackpink in the area
I think Hicks signed with the Giants because of the 44 million not because he had a shot at starting. That and San Francisco is a nice place to work and live if you are rich.
We will see what happens. He’s not a starter you will see.
Jean Matrac
I think you’re wrong about that. I’m not the only one to suggest that, as MLB.com expressed the same thing.
MLBTR projected a 4/$40M. Had the number he signed for been significantly higher I would agree. But MLBTR has been consistently low for most pitchers, Imanaga was the only one to get less that I know of.
A ;lot of team are looking for bullpen help. He might have gotten more than what the Giants gave him if he was willing to stay in the pen.
Tigers3232
@Blackpink, he walked 8 over 24 innings last season. Not sure how you came to the conclusion he had trouble finding the strike zone….
He’s also only started 8 times in his career. So again not sure how you came to the conclusion he failed as a starter. He’s hardly been given an opportunity.
Blackpink in the area
It’s not just walks. His command is poor he can’t control his pitches when he puts movement on them. If he’s on he’s awesome but he’s always had this problem. I think it’s a 2 seamer he throws it moves more than any pitch that any Cardinal pitcher has thrown over the last decade. It’s hard to hit for sure but it’s hard to control.
I have watched him pitch his entire career. He’s not a starter like I said already his command is barely good enough for a high leverage reliever. Big upside.
Blackpink in the area
And he walked 32 guys in 60 something innings last year. He walks 1 guy every 2 innings pitched. That’s not good.
Jean Matrac
People forget that when the Giants signed Kevin Gausman he was being used as a reliever. The Reds who claimed him off waivers used him in 15 games, but gave him only one start.
Blackpink in the area
Gausmans career BB per 9
2.5
Hicks career BB per 9
4.9
Your opinion here is based on fandom. Mine is based on watching him his entire career short of the time he spent in Toronto. Hicks is not a starter.
Tigers3232
He has a sinker he throws 60% of time and has excellent command of. Sweeper and 4 seemed combined 30% decent command. Rarely uses slider and change up, change up is pitch he has most trouble locating.
Tigers3232
You obviously didn’t watch all that close as you had no idea he doesn’t throw a 2 seemer.
Jean Matrac
He can be a starter. The Cards attempt to make him one was ill-timed, and ill-conceived. They tried it the year of the lockout, so he didn’t have a full ST to stretch out. They also had him throw a changeup about once an inning. He couldn’t control the change, he only threw it for a strike 8% of the time. So the Cards had him scrap it and put him back in the pen.
He throws 2 different fastballs, but he’s added a sweeper, which is effective against lefties. It would help if the Giants can teach him a more effective off-speed pitch. There’s no guarantee that he’ll succeed as a starter, but there’s no guarantee that he won’t.
Blackpink in the area
44 million guaranteed for a guy who wasn’t closing in the year prior is a TON of money. How many non closers can you name that got that much? Ever?
Blackpink in the area
What the heck is a sweeper? Pretty sure that’s the 2 seamer. I don’t go to Tigers threads and tell you what you know champ.
Blackpink in the area
What a stupid comment. You made up a pitch to pretend I am wrong. I won’t put up with that.
Blackpink in the area
Yeah you know he can be a starter eventhough I watched him his whole career and you have barely watched him pitch at all.
I am done here. Good night.
Tigers3232
What pitch did I make up???
Tigers3232
You know it is easy to find a fan of stats and not a fan of the sport. Quit trying to act like you are some savant when you clearly are a fan of stats.
And I’m assuming you think a sweeper is a made up pitch. That would be pretty much would I’d expect from a fan of stats who clearly hasn’t followed the game very closely in recent years. And FYI a sweeper is a form of a slider which much more dramatic movement.
It’s awesome that you claim to have watched him so closely, you are making claims on a pitch not even in his repertoire and then you think his second most used pitch doesn’t even exist.
To claim you watch him or even the game regularly is laughable. You can’t even recognize the names given to variants of pitches in the last decade. Anyone who has watched a full game or 2 and lays attention has heard these. Quit pretending to be something your not…..
Blackpink in the area
And you have been muted. Like a tree falling in a forest you might make a sound but I sure won’t know.
Tigers3232
Way to tuck tail like a coward when caught in a lie. You try and talk a big game making bold claims and when being called out and shown to be a fraud you try and run like a coward instead of being a man and being accountable….
Tigers3232
And the beauty of you using the mute button is I ll still see your comments. You just want see the corrections to your B.S. claims. HAHA
oldgfan
He’s just being a Joel P
Tigers3232
Is that Joel P?? That is awesome I was about to mention someone else on here who was oblivious to the reason lefties rarely played IF other than 1B. Of course that was Joel. Blew my mind someone who is on here so regularly could be unaware of something so elementary in the sport.
Tigers3232
A sweeper is a form of a slider. Haven’t you watched a MLB game in the past decade???
Jean Matrac
Not knowing what a sweeper is says volumes about your baseball knowledge. And no, it’s not a 2-seamer.
I’m not a Tigers fan either. So wrong again.
Tigers3232
He was replying to me who he blocked. It is quite amusing he doesn’t know what a sweeper is. But then again this is same guy who was clueless as to why there are rarely left handed IFs other than at 1B.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The sweeper has only been commonly used as a name for maybe three years, not a decade.
JackStrawb
If Hicks is good at getting three outs at a time, he should obviously be pitching as many innings as he can handle.
its_happening
Before telling someone they are wrong you should watch them pitch. Unless Hicks develops a new pitch that’s not fastball or faster fastball, he might struggle mightily given his ability to miss targets.
its_happening
“He can be a starter”
Anyone can be a starter.
oldgfan
No doubt about it.
Blackpink in the area
Hicks throws a LOT of pitches. That’s the problem. If he wants to he can throw it right down the middle otherwise he throws with insane movement that’s hard to control. And that puts too much pressure on the bullpen. I saw it with my own eyes.
If it was a good idea to turn relievers into starters why doesn’t everyone do it? Why is Hader a reliever? Why is Edwin Diaz a reliever. More innings equals more value right?
Blackpink in the area
He has two main pitches. He has this pitch with incredible movement that you can call whatever you want to call. And then he has the straight as an arrow 101 MPH fastball. That fastball gets hit hard because it has no movement he only uses it as a get me over pitch when he needs to throw a strike.
I have seen him pitch for years. Again huge upside I am not putting him down because he’s no longer on my team like some people do. He could legitimately be the best reliever in baseball by the time the contract is up. But he’s not a starter.
Jean Matrac
its_happening, He already has added a pitch. He started throwing the sweeper last season, which looks to be a weapon against lefties. So he now throws 3 pitches, and my guess is the Giants will try and get him to throw a change, though a different type than he threw with the Cards which was not good.
its_happening
Jean, you haven’t watched Hicks pitch and yet you’re declaring he “has added a pitch”. Here is his repertoire:
Fast
Faster
Change up that’s too fast
Admirable you argue for prayers. Really nice. But you’re talking about a player you haven’t seen. As a Blue Jays fan, saw plenty. It would be shocking if he succeeds as a starter but jays off to him if he does.
Jean Matrac
He throws a 4 seam, a sinker, and a Sweeper. The Cards wanted him to throw the change as part of his arsenal as a starter. He canned the change when they put him back in the pen. He did not throw the sweeper when he tried starting before.
Tigers3232
@Manny, regardless of exactly when if he watched every one of Hicks games as he claimed he’d have heard it.
its_happening
Like I said, you haven’t watched him.
its_happening
Manny you must be new. People have used the term sweeper for decades, not always commonly used. Stick to social justice issues.
Jean Matrac
Wow, what superior analysis, logically applied, to produce such a compelling result. s/
So I guess you see things that the writers at MLB.com and Fangraphs, and MLB scouts can’t see. You’re so much smarter than real baseball people, it’s incredible.
And how would you know that I haven’t seen him? That assumption say a lot about your conclusions. Amazing how many things you can be wrong about.
Tigers3232
@its, you guys are kind of both right here. Hicks relies heavily on his sinker and he has one of hardest thrown sinkers in the league. The problem with most pitchers who rely on a sinker is when they aren’t getting much movement they re basically a straight fastball. Whereas a normal fastball is target for location like corners. An unbreaking sinker is just a meatball.
My son and I would watch Porcello warm up on days he’d pitch for Tigers. You could get a good idea of how game was gonna go by how his pitches were breaking. When he controlled sinker he would dominate, when he didn’t he’d get clubbed like a baby seal.
its_happening
MLB writers are journalists.
Fangraphs are number crunchers.
You haven’t read a proper scouting report.
And you don’t watch enough baseball or Jordan Hicks. You’re pretending to know what he does and can do rather than using what you’ve seen – because you haven’t seen it.
Amazing how little you know.
Tigers3232
There are numerous sites that track pitch usage. You can be as condescending as you want, that doesn’t change reality.
its_happening
Sorry Tiger wasn’t talking to you but if you want in on this discussion.
It is one thing to track pitch usage it is another to talk effectiveness.
You also misused the word condescending. Just because Jean hasn’t watched Hicks doesn’t mean he doesn’t know baseball. Just means he knows little about Hicks. Based on the way he acted before I jumped in I’d say you might want to re-think hurling names around.
Tigers3232
I did not hurl names and if you go back through the thread I have been involved in this conversation. I don’t really care about any of that though, I’m here to discuss baseball not try and be correct on anything or belittle anyone.
That said, I have watched Hicks pitch quite a few times. He is an intriguing yet frustrating talent. Pretty typical of pitchers who rely heavily on sinkers, when sinkers are not braking they are basically a fastball. So days his sinker isn’t breaking much batters can assume fastball 8 put of every 10 pitches and they’ll be basically correct.
Tigers3232
Porcello was a similar pitcher in pitch usage and I watched a ton of him while with the Tigers. And like I said you could pretty easily predict in warm-ups how is outing would go. Unsurprisingly he had led league or been close to leading in hits allowed, most of which came from sinker not breaking. The flip side if a pitcher can get control of it, it comes out looking like a fastball that ends up having wicked movement.
Jean Matrac
its_, You keep making assumptions about what I read, or don’t read, watch or what I haven’t watched, and so far your record on those assumptions is pretty dismal.
Fangraphs does more than just crunch numbers. Baseball journalists have to do a lot of research and have a fair amount of knowledge to be a journalist. I doubt you could get a gig as one.
The difference between you and me though, is that you made your mind up early on that his becoming a starter, despite the effectiveness of his new pitch, and the ability to add another, is guaranteed to fail, and not even worth trying.
I see the possibilities of Hicks’ becoming a starter on the basis of knowing the way it was attempted previously, and the analysis of his pitch development and usage. I believe it’s possible, but I also know that success is not guaranteed, only that it’s worth the try.
youngliam
It doesn’t matter if it’s worth trying again or not. The important thing to note is that they’ve barely made any moves and these type of deals aren’t impressing anyone or saving any grace.
Jean Matrac
What do you mean it’s not worth trying? Almost every team is still looking for pitching, SPs especially. If the Giants are successful in getting useful innings from Hicks, as Cobb and Ray rehab, that’s huge for them.
And who cares if the moves aren’t impressing the know-nothings? The team is better than last season, and that team was in the hunt until mid-August last season.
D-Nice
They’ll probably get Chapman…..if you consider that “big”.
Pete'sView
As a die-hard Giants fan, and one who has supported Farhan Zaidi all along, I’m close to the end with him. Everything he claimed he’d do at the beginning of the off season hasn’t materialized.
Not signing Hoskins is an embarrassment with the deep-pocketed management and woefully powerless Giants lineup.
Adding Chapman is a huge and expensive mistake, not just because he’s a awful swing and miss guy, but because JD Davis is the better hitter and almost as good glove. Pitchers like Clevenger, Lorenzen and the like are at best #5s. and do nothing for the rotation, even assuming Kyle Harrison starts to meet his pedigree.
Unless Farhan pulls off some masterful trades or signs a Jordan Montgomery, the Giants will be worse with Zaidi in the front office—again!
BlueSkies_LA
For the first few seasons after he left the Dodgers FO I was convinced they’d really let one get away. Not so sure now. Though in fairness Zaidi can only do what ownership gives him permission to do.
pd14athletics
JD Davis almost as good as Matt Chapman with the glove?! I’m all for not being a believer in his bat, but thinking they are in the same realm with the glove is ludicrous. I would think this was just sarcasm, but the rest of the post doesn’t fit the flow.
scottn59c
Davis is definitely inferior with the glove, but he’s a replacement level 3B, and his bat is about as potent. He’s good enough to where Chapman for all the years he’ll command isn’t really much of a step forward.
JackStrawb
@Scottn59c It’s always a solid point, to look at the upgrade, and not just the value of the player in a vacuum.
You’d think this would come automatically to any serious fan, except it doesn’t. .
williemaysfield
Another thing to consider is Davis will be s free agent next offseason. Signing Chapman covers the Giants at 3rd for probably 2-4 before a decline.
disadvantage
@PD
Came here to say this, leaving happy. JD Davis has improved with the glove when compared to JD Davis, but isn’t even in the same stratosphere as Chapman with the glove.
scottn59c
This offseason was doubly disappointing because it was truly the one where the Giants were supposed to make a big splash. There are no more excuses about bad contracts needing to come off the books or the farm system needing time to graduate. This was supposed to be the window into contention, but it hasn’t happened. And if it hasn’t happened by now, when will it? How much longer can the team stall, all while bleeding fans and goodwill?
foppert2
They have been offering big splashes for a couple of years. They can’t force players to take their money. Blaming Zaidi is just scapegoating. The idea that some other person would have got Judge or Ohtani and Yamamoto to sign is not realistic. The “it hasn’t happened” method of judgement is really shallow to me. Not sure what else the current FO was expected to do. Kidnap them and torture them until they sign.
agnes gooch
Bingo foppert, thank you as always
frugalfarhan
Maybe offer more money than the team that signed at least one of the guys that got away? It would be an overpay but a hell of a lot less risky than giving a guy who played in Korea over a hundred million dollars. Offer more and they will come its not rocket science. Problem is Farhan hasn’t offered more just promises he will and fans like you aren’t smart enough to see it which is sad
TheBull
@foppet2
Zaidi is entering year 6
He’s responsible for the roster. He’s paid well to field the best team possible. That being said, He’s only fielded a roster that has finished with a winning record 1 time. That is absolute FAILURE in professional sports.
foppert2
Offer more and they will come. Harper yes. The cases 1 mentioned, no. Like I said, a shallow way of looking at things.
Very comfortable with my intelligence so absolutely no need to be sad for me. Thanks for the thought.
foppert2
Almost.Lets see how his work at internal development during those years goes. If that fails, sure.
Canuckleball
“JD Davis is the better hitter and almost as good glove.”
Chapman 108 OPS+ last year, 117 for his career
J.D. Davis 103 OPS+ last year, 113 for his career
No, he’s not actually a better hitter, although they are close
Chapman Plus 94 Defensive Runs Saved over 7 seasons at 3rd
J.D. Davis Minus 38 Defensive Runs Saved over 7 seasons at 3rd
Over their both 7 year careers, Chapman is 132 DRS better.
They are not in the same galaxy defensively
TigersLoveCinnamon
I agree they aren’t the same, but in his defense JD looked gold glove caliber, even possible all star to start the year. He reverted to his usual self about a month before the AS break though
agnes gooch
JD hurt his ankle in a slide into 2B and wasn’t the same offensively or defensively the rest of the season.
JackStrawb
@Canuckleball Ah, the absurdity of comparing entire careers when trying to show someone is currently a better hitter.
Now try 2021-2023 and 2020-2023, the 3 and 4 year windows every projection system on Earth uses to evaluate current levels of performance.
Canuckleball
Okey Dokey
Speaking of trends…
J.D. Davis OPS+ over the last 3 years:
125, 116, 103
Any bets on how many points below league average he’s going to be this season as a hitter based on his last 3 years?
Chapman
100, 116, 108
Chapman had major Hip surgery at the end of the 2020 season. He understandably suffered in ’21 as he tried to come back. He’s likely no longer going to be the much better hitter he was before the surgery. He is still a good bet to hover around the 110 OPS+ range due to remaining power and good plate discipline.
Blackpink in the area
I doubt Hoskins wanted to play for San Fran. Milwaukee is a GREAT park for power hitters like Hoskins and the Giants park is very much the opposite.
Chapman is older and looking for more years so he should theoretically be less concerned with the park.
Jean Matrac
Blackpink in the area, Well you’re dead wrong about the parks. Both American Family Field and Oracle have a PF of 97. AFF is better HRs, but Oracle is much better for singles and XBHs.
Blackpink in the area
I have watched over 100 games played in that park over the last 20 years.
That’s a pitchers park.
I have been to Milwaukee numerous times
That’s a hitters park.
He’s a home run hitter. I am talking about home runs nothing else.
Jean Matrac
Well I’ve been watching since the Candlestick days. I attended the last game at the ‘Stick, and the first at PacBell.
Actual data is much more reliable than a fan’s perception. The data for the Brewer’s park is for every game played, not the just numerous that you’ve seen.
I guess you’re forgetting that they changed the dimensions in 2020, and more importantly blocked off the arcade. Blocking off the arcade prevents the wind from blowing in and knocking down balls hit to RF. In 2019 the PF at Oracle was 94. What you saw for the first 17 years is irrelevant.
Blackpink in the area
Again I was talking about home runs because he’s a home run hitter. Specifically home runs. I don’t need to look up the numbers Milwaukee is a home run hitters paradise San Fran is the opposite.
Jean Matrac
There’s more to hitting than HRs. But it’s an exaggeration to call the Brewer’s park “a home run hitters paradise”. It’s ranks 8th best with a PF of 109. A home run hitters paradise, is the Reds’ park with a PF of 131. Even Dodger Stadium, at 122, has a better HR PF.
Blackpink in the area
Dude i have no idea where they come up with those numbers. Milwaukee is a better place to hit home runs than LA I know that.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Yeah, have to believe rating for Chavez Ravine is slightly off because of their own power hitters even though formula is supposed to offset that
its_happening
It’s not necessarily the park but who plays in it. Put the Reds lineup in Milwaukee 81 games the number changes. Dodgers same thing.
PF argument is meaningless when you use context.
Highwaymenace
Farhan is just a horrible negotiator. He’s arrogant and can’t convince players to play for him. He is incredibly smart and a great scout, but he fails miserably at the negotiating table. This is not an ownership hamstring situation, he has the green light to spend big, as ownership has publicly announced.
Candlestoked
@hwy As if you’ve been in on the negotiations!
Still in talks
I hope they sign chapman.
agnes gooch
Hey Pete–who was Zaidi supposed to sign that was going to miraculously turn things around that the Giants badly need? Zaidi really wanted Ohtani and Yamamoto and we know what happened with that. No other free agents left are worth the Boras asking and are not going to miraculously make the Giants front runners. Hoskins or Chapman are not worth griping about, nice players but not worth jumping off a bridge over. I’m sure Zaidi has been trying to make trades and that is a great way for both teams to make themselves better but it takes two to tango. Giants have a ton of kids on the way, we got a taste last year of a few, let’s see how they all grow into it. The most exciting teams now are full of homegrown talent, but it takes time. Be patient. Chill out Giants fans.
Blackpink in the area
Snell won the Cy Young last year pitching for the division rival Padres.
That would help…..
TheBull
@agness gooch
“Giants have a ton of kids on the way”
Sure
But those ‘Kids’ aren’t any good. MLB recent farm rankings has Frisco at number 20.
Zaidi isn’t winning at the big league level AND he’s failed to develop a top 5 or even a top 10 farm system
The Giants as an organization are a Mess
agnes gooch
Hey Bull, how often are farm rankings correct? Not very often. So chill out until you see what happens. I’m so sick of all these prognosticators picking who will win the World Series (they are almost always wrong) or who has the best farm. Nobody knows. Not you or anyone.
Zaidi hasn’t been perfect but when he arrived the farm was barren and he has built it up to respectability.
Run along Bull, I don’t like bullies and your negativity is not charming in the least
27champyankees
Wait , because the ranking don’t suit your fanboy views they’re inaccurate and not important??
You sound like Trump
Condemning the legal justice system because it doesn’t favor his lawless behavior
27champyankees
SF Giants have become an irrelevant under .500 team and dumb dumb fans still back Zaidi
If he did this in the Bronx he would have either been terminated 2 years ago or stabbed in the employee parking lot
disadvantage
@chumpy
So your point is the difference between Farhan and respectability, according to 82-win Yankees fans, is 3 wins? Seems like your fans have had a pretty rough go at things.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
27Champ
So call the same Uber to pick up Zaidi and Cashman at the same time
Yeah, Yankees re-signed Judge which gives their fans some moments to enjoy, but they still seem Mike’s behind Houston and Texas, and only even with Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa Bay. Well, perhaps they passed Tampa due to one Tampa player’s legal problems and the Soto rental.
its_happening
He picked up Moneyball in grad school and suddenly became a baseball genius. Comes from a small area in Canada where baseball is almost non-existent.
He has a philosophy that doesn’t always lean on scouting, as he’s not a baseball guy with baseball instincts. Can’t teach that. If he’s not surrounded by baseball people he is going to swing and miss a lot.
scottn59c
It’s been an underwhelming offseason so far, and, as this article opines, the team is arguably not any better than it was last year. They lost some pop in the bats of Joc and Haniger, and there are tons of question marks in unproven players or unproven roles. Bailey can catch, but the bat is a question mark. Who knows what handing the reins of SS to Luciano will result in. Schmitt, Ramos, and Meckler looked lost and incapable of hitting MLB pitching. The rotation is built on hopes and dreams in an aging and injured Cobb, a rehabbing Ray, and a reliever who’s going to suddenly become an ace starter in Hicks?
I don’t know what salvages this offseason. I personally don’t want any of the Boras clients on anything more than a 3-4 years, which is unlikely, even if they are languishing on the shelf at present. Unfortunately, after missing out on marquee agent after agent, I think the Giants have made their own bed and now must lie in it. It’s hard to imagine much more more than 4th place in the NL West and .500 ball.
frugalfarhan
Glad to see you come around
disadvantage
@frugal
Your comment is the epitome of “misery loves company”.
frugalfarhan
Enough pissed off people will result in a change simple as that not looking for pity or company to suffer with just want Farhan gone as soon as humanly possible.
disadvantage
Then why are you “glad” @scott is coming around?
And let’s say Farhan is gone. Who is your magic blue pill that will magically make the Giants successful?
It’s frustrating because we’re both ostensibly Giants fans, but I’ve had more pleasure speaking with Dodgers fans on here than with the complaining Giants fans with whom I share a common interest.
oldgfan
Schmitt has upside. Put him in AAA all year to learn to recognize the breaking ball. Davis will be a free agent next year I think. By then Casey should be ready. Matt Williams had the same issues his first year.
Chapman would block this scenario though, so I would pass on him if it was my decision. I would take a shot at Bellinger if under 8 years.
JayRyder
I’ll go D+ grade to be nice. Nothing here move along. As you can see, They are repetitive in their thinking, maneuvers, BS talk, and here we go again. Same stuff over and over. Doesn’t matter what they say at this point. I figure they’ll be competitive. Which I love. But Oakland A’s of the early 2000s they are not. The culture isn’t there on the farm. And players know SF is cheap. And The City sucks right now. Farhan signing a bunch of guys from Sacramento isn’t going to change that. Ok, He’s smart enough to figure that out. Sign guys who grew up Giants fans. He’s really out thinking the market with that one. And they Lost Hoskins, whom I thought would be a great fit when I heard Brews. Still couldn’t get him.
KHE
What was all that hype before the FA Period started from Zaidi about goung to bring in some major talent and spend some money and bring in a star ?? Just another huge Lie, promissed to the Giants Fans. Zaidi needs to be fired like yesterday. He doesn’t have a clue how to be a GM.
Fost24
Good thing he isn’t their GM. The fact that you don’t even know Zaidi’s Job title/role and position, immediately eliminates any credibility on your baseball knowledge or analysis.
Fost24
Welp….good thing Zaidi ISN’T a GM. It baffles me how many people interject their opinion and don’t even check the boxes of the easiest facts, such as, the subject’s in question job title while you word vommit. All baseball credibility and analysis goes out the window.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I like the Robbie Ray deal. From an outside perspective, I think they’ve done a pretty good job from not doing much last year. Far better than my Cheapsox.
tedtheodorelogan
Farthands tenure as PBO hasn’t exactly panned out like many Giants fans had hoped. 5 years in, 1 winning season which was the flukiest season in the history of fluke seasons. Over 100 games behind the Dodgers since Farhan took over. His drafts so far have produced a defense first catcher who can’t really hit, and Kyle Harrison, who could be good but needs to show up for a full season. Can’t sign star free agents. Can’t trade for star players. The farm system is still middling. Farhan has done exactly nothing to make me think he is good at his job, unless he was hired to keep the fans out of the ballpark an have them lose interest in this once great organization.
Candlestoked
@ted Another record-breaking whine, pendejo!
frugalfarhan
Call it a whine now but in a year it will be called foreshadowing. Farhan’s days are numbered and everything he says is spot on
Candlestoked
@frugal Great. Now it’s a whine club!
disadvantage
When someone’s first word is “Farthands”, you know the words that follow are going to be clever and well-reasoned.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Ted
They sell out most games.
They have a history of pennants.
They are a 4th place team in the division most likely.
With Hoskins, they would have been a better fourth place team
tedtheodorelogan
Dude, they don’t sell out anything anymore unless they are playing the Dodgers and the crowd is mostly blue. I’m not pissed about not signing Hoskins. That doesn’t move the needle
Echopark
Giants have a conundrum right now. Not a great team. Not a great farm ( though improved). In a division with three clearly better teams for the foreseeable future. A terrible city in an expensive state. Players don’t really want to play there right now. And the conundrum is their only hope is overpaying FA massively but GM and ownership are smart enough to not do that. (Think Colorado paying Bryant terrible). They need to get Chapman on something reasonable even if they overpay in the form of an extra year or even two, and then see if they can grossly overpay Snell). That’d be a good offseason under the circumstances.
Candlestoked
Go Niners!
frugalfarhan
Time to flex against the kitty cats Purdy for 30 lock it in.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Definitely see the 49ers in but losing the Super Bowl in a couple weeks
BlueSkies_LA
Seems to me the only people who believe San Francisco is a “terrible city” are the ones who never go there. And it’s amusing to thingk of ballplayers worrying about living an expensive state. So a whole box of salt hardly covers those remarks. And if it’s really true that players don’t want to play for the Giants, it might have a lot more to do with the team wandering in the wilderness without any apparent plan for finding their way out, and this for a franchise with the resources to do better. So yeah, maybe they do need to up their payroll game, because making them the best offer is how you get players to sign.
yeasties
Oh, I’ve been several times. Areas north and south of the city are fantastic, beautiful along the coast. Drive a bit further to places like Santa Cruz and Monterey, and it is still amazing. San Francisco itself is a disaster.
Jean Matrac
yeasties, If it’s such a disaster why would guys like Hunter Pence, and Dave Fleming live in the city? Why would Jon Miller move from Moss Beach into SF? Miller talks often about how he and his wife enjoy walking around SF.
Certainly there are problems, but not more than any big city. The crime rate is fairly low, especially compared to cities like StL. Homelessness is the biggest problem, but that’s a problem everywhere.
Jean Matrac
I agree with the first half of your post, but disagree with the idea that there was no plan. When Zaidi took over he had a bunch of veteran guys on longish term deals that had little trade value. It’s only been fairly recently that they were able to get out from under those contracts.
All Zaidi could do was try and put a reasonable team on the field until those deals went away. and draft as best they could. There’s a lot of luck involved in the draft, How well Zaidi has drafted is still unknown, since it was just this past season any of his picks reached the ML level. The owners are aware of that situation, which is why Zaidi’s contract was extended
BlueSkies_LA
I get your point, but while they may have had a plan at one time it’s difficult to see what it is now. FO people keep their jobs if they are serving those above them. It doesn’t mean they have a plan for winning, and it seems some players are very tuned into that question. Ohtani made it pretty clear that he chose the Dodgers because he wanted to play for a team that had a win-now and win for the future plan.
Jean Matrac
Giants ownership wants to win. Their willing to spend, which they’ve always done, indicates that. Zaidi was extended because ownership believes he can produce a winning team.
Ohtani’s choice doesn’t mean the Giants don’t have a win in the future plan. All it shows is the Dodgers are in a better win-now position, which they are.
BlueSkies_LA
Didn’t seem to be what Ohtani was thinking. Ultimately what matters to team owners is profitability. They have a couple of roads to get there and they don’t both necessarily run through winning. Anyway I hope the Giants get back on track. The NLW is more fun to watch with a meaningful Dodgers-Giants rivalry.
Jean Matrac
Absolutely. Unlike a lot of Giants’ fans I don’t hate the Dodgers. There’s no team I’d rather see them beat, but I have a ton respect for the organization. And I have for a long time, except during the McCourt years. I want the Giants to succeed, and rivalry games against the D’backs, Padres or Rockies just aren’t the same.
dankyank
Zaidi should just bite the bullet and trade for a shortstop upgrade. Kyle Farmer would represent a 3.5 win upgrade over what Crawford provided in 2023. The complacency is hard to watch since the team has just a couple of glaring weaknesses keeping them from being a viable playoff contender.
claude raymond
1. Slusser is clueless. She loved giants lastella signing cuz her time covering A’s.
2. The Giants have hoskins for $10 less. They have 2 of Hoskins actually. Flores has a better HR rate. $6.5 mill/yr. And Davis in 2022 (hoskins last season before injury) had a better HR rate. If they sign Chapman, Davis platoons with Wade at first (he can also fill in at 3rd and play a little outfield), and Flores become DH. Davis will make about $7mill. Flores can also play 3rd and 2nd. Let’s sum up: Hoskins plays horrible D at first or he can DH for $17 mil. Davis and Flores play. 2players for $13.5 mill. Often playing in same lineup. With equivalent power numbers as Hoskins. Btw, Chapman and Davis were teammates and good friends at Fullerton St. Chapman played 3rd and Davis played outfield and…..pitched.
frugalfarhan
Spoken like a true FZ blind supporter. Keep crunching those numbers while the fans leave
Rick Pernell
Just thinking out loud, “Doesn’t Matt Chapman kind of fit the Yankees roster?”
I understand there are some money constraints and a bigger need for a starting pitcher.
PattheBat
Hoskins isn’t an upgrade on a Wade/Flores platoon
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Yes, he is. But not by a lot.
Jean Matrac
Maybe with the bat, but Wade has a lot more defensive value, and I’d even take Flores over Hoskins. Both can play a position, but Hoskins is limited to DH.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Agree that Hoskins would have mostly slotted at DH.
John Bird
It’s almost like Zaidi looks at the team as some sort of science experiment. Moneyball 2.0
Mendocino
It seems to me that most power hitter FAs prefer teams with stadiums that are easy to hit in; and, unfortunately, most pitchers prefer to pitch on teams with great power hitters.
I’m just saying……… Should we be more serious about moving in the fences?
gravel
The park plays fairly neutral now since they last adjusted the dimensions. Also, nice username. 🙂
agnes gooch
Thank you gravel, this tired old mantra about the ballpark suppressing hitters is no longer relevant since they did the big changes a few years ago moving the bullpens. It still does get foggy and windy here but it’s pretty cozy in the park, and always gorgeous
petefrompp
Not sure if this exactly true
Ballpark was much more lively when they closed off the arcade in right field for Covid.
Once they opened that back up it does change the winds inside the park and the ball travels significantly less
It’s a great park – except it can be damn cold
Jean Matrac
Wrong. The arcade remains blocked off.
Datashark
Giants look like a 4th place team again compared to rest of their own division they will be a disaster where Rockies may pass them up. Unless there are a bunch of moves coming.
Right now Hardly a starting staff before all-star break
Worse hitting than last season which was almost non-existent – they lack clutch hitters.
All hopes on a Korean import where their play is AA at best, Lee may see more time in Sacramento than SF.
oldgfan
Pretty murky looking glass you have there.
Can’t wait to see all the doom and gloom ?
orangenblackattack
The only way to compete with the Dodgers is to think like them. Get Chapman, get Snell, get Bellinger. Then we have a team with a chance!
Not a clever name
If this was FZ first or second year I could see some hope. But he’s 5 years into this and just getting around to marginal improvements. I am not saying it is his fault but they need to change the perception of the team both internally and externally. If this was a business and it is, they would ax the guy at the top and bring in some one who signifies a catalyst for change. If not they will continue to come up short on the FA they want playing in SF. And don’t feel bad for FZ, when those goes guys get the Ax the parachute compensation they get is usually enough for the average American family to live comfortably for the rest of their lives.
BondsAway
HORRIBLE off-season for SF…again. offense was one of worst in baseball last year & Zaidi adds Lee, & a back up catcher. LA’s meat of order will have Freddie, Betts, & Shohei. Padres in a rebuild year will have Boegarts, Tatis, & Manny. AZ has Carroll, Martel,& Walker & the Giants get to look forward to LaMonte Wade, Wilmer, & a platoon of Austin Slater & Yaz in middle of order. Absolute embarrassing what this once proud franchise has become. Zaidi’s biggest FA signings have been Tommy La Stella, Descalfani, & Michael Conforto coming off a major injury. Meanwhile LA has made moves to bring in Freeman, Betts, Trey Turner, Sherzer, & now Shohei. And don’t tell me “Zaidi can’t make players come here.” BS. Offer Judge, Shohei, Harper, etc. a contract so big, the players union would make them take it. Or, make some trades (prospects are overrated anyways). LA got Betts, Sherzer, & others via trade. Absolutely unacceptable what has happened in Zaidi’s tenure. DO SOMETHING!
mlb fan
Not that I disagree with your points, but the biggest problem the Giants have is their drafting and development of players, not whether they can overpay some of them to come to S.F. Until the Giants draft and develop better, adding expensive free agents is a waste of time, because they’ll be no real homegrown core of players to supplement.
Jean Matrac
It’s too early to tell about drafting and developing under Zaidi. His draft choices are just now reaching the ML level,. Bailey appears to be a productive player. But it’s too soon to know whether his other guys like Luciano, Harrison, Whisenhunt, and Matos can reach their potential. We’ll have better insight a couple years from now
Bart Harley Jarvis
I love the in-depth psychoanalysis of the Giants front office by the MLBTR faithful, but it’s just a regular old organization going through a rough patch.
Thankfully, everyone seems somewhat less obsessed with San Francisco street poop. The level of scatological focus on San Francisco was concerning.
oldgfan
Scatological always gets a thumbs up !
richardc
Chapman’s case, especially playing hurt at the end of last season, is a real indictment on player’s playing through tough injuries.
It doesn’t matter how good you are baseball players are creatures of habit, and their mechanics are primarily based off muscle memory, be it pitchers or hitters.
With thay being said, a tough injury will almost certainly have a significant negative impact on their ability to perform, but baseball players have that type of hockey mindset and try to play even though they’re clearly compromised.
Dansby Swanson did this very often in Atlanta, as did Freddie Freeman and Brian McCann. In doing so, they would suffer through slumps during these times, and in Dansby’s case (trying to play through multiple wrist injuries) it had some questioning really if he was even that good to begin with or if he was just a streaky hitter.
He’d do pretty well, then he’d get hurt and miss some time, but he’d also come back before his wrist was healed and it would sap his power. Then, trying to overcompemsate for his lack of power he’d get overly aggressive and it would lead to him uncharacteristically chasing really bad balls and striking out much more often than normal.
This happened for at least two seasons that I know of, and part of one, but the third season is just speculation on my part, but still it definitely affected him because no one considered this context when he hit free agency.
They just looked at his year to year stats and assumed he was a pretty inconsistent hitter. His last year as a Brave he was actually healthy and over his wrist injuries and had a great year, but most weren’t even aware and used it as a possible outlier to leverage him into signing a cheaper deal.
Idk, it just makes me realize with millions of dollars on the line, I can’t really blame these guys if they choose to sit put if they’re still hurt to the point that it’s going to negatively impact their performance, especially in a contract year.
They will already be penalized for even getting hurt in the first place, but then GMs will double down for that player just trying to do everything g to help his team.
Idk, obviously these are millionaires and first world problems, but it just makes me wonder what I would want to do knowing all of this…
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Giants should use the year to see what they got with prospects and spend next offseason for Soto
scottn59c
If we learned anything this year, it’s that the only team that can plan an offseason around signing one particular superstar is the Dodgers.
TellItGoodbye
No Soto! Most overrated overpaid player in MLB history. He draws walks. How exciting of him.
Old York
Based on projected WAR they look like a .500 ball club.
scottn59c
That’s about what the smell test would suggest, too.
mlb fan
And the best test of all; the eye test pegs them around .500 too with an upside of 87 wins if everything goes perfect and they are extremely healthy.
frugalfarhan
Baseball purgatory is being a .500 team every year. No playoffs and no high draft picks along with moves like these to ensure we don’t ever get better or worse
TellItGoodbye
Giants should sign Justin Turner and Cody Bellinger. If each of them hits just one game-winning HR against the Dodger$ they will have earned their paychecks!
Central Valley
I took my family of 3 to a game last year vs the Mets. Cost me nearly $800, between tickets, gas, parking, food etc. I was alright with it because I wanted my young daughter to experience a game st their beautiful ballpark.
This year, I don’t think I’ll be spending any money on tickets. The Giants seem stuck, very few trade able pieces, top tier free agents won’t sign and a Farm that is improving, but still not terribly exciting. Seems 4th place is likely.
The Giants need to trade for a star, maybe Pete Alonso if available. Just my thoughts…
Datashark
Giants have had the off-season like they desire to keep under .500 ball
williemaysfield
A team that needs to replace 500 innings plus add Hicks and a injured Ray? That’s it for pitching adds? Signed an often injured back up catcher and talented but unproven centerfielder. Its like they dont have a plan.
Dbacks has 3 needs-DH, 3b, and a starting pitcher. They went out and filled their needs. The moves aren’t terrible but another starter and bat are needed to sniff 80-85 wins
scrambledeggs
The Giants have missed out on so many big name players. It seems that their interest is in players who are no names or 30+ year old players who are washed up. Farhan needs to go and the management group needs a overhaul.
NewTemplar
To Giants leadership: If you are waiting for Chapman’s number to drop, STOP now and just offer the current number and get him on board. No longtime Giants fans really expected to land Ohtani or Yamamoto, and quite a stretch for Cody to wear orange & black, but Chapman is a MUST. That shouldn’t be the end of FA signings, either. Lorenzen can be a good first half mid-rotation guy who slides to the bottom rotation or cover for rookie issues when Ray and Cobb return, and what happened to signing an experienced SS???? For more DH power, what is the deal? One more year with Darin Ruf? We just want the rest of the story to reveal itself soon!
Jean Matrac
Just give a guy whatever he’s asking for? That’s not a smart way to build a roster. If he’s asking for 6/$150, and after 3 seasons he turns into Evan Longoria, that hurts the team.
It isn’t the money. I’m sure they wouldn’t mind an overpay on AAV. It’s the years. If there’s a guy on the roster being owed $75M for 3 years and is replacement level, just above above, it’s a drag on the team. Too many guys like that was the problem back 2018-19.
NewTemplar
It’s a fair point, but Longoria was already heading over the hill by the time the Giants signed him. Chapman is in his prime, and this may be an issue between a four or six-year deal to complete. I always wanted Longo to be his earlier version but he didn’t put it together. Same story with Jeff Samardzija, another poor signing by the former administration. Chapman has more quality to offer still.
Jean Matrac
Well, two things I disagree with. I could be wrong, but Chapman appears to be in decline to me. At his peak in 2018-19 he posted an OPS+ of 131. Over the last 3 seasons it’s been 108. He’s entering his age 31 season.
He’s a solid player, and his defense is exceptional, but I don’t think they need to over pay for what he provides.
The other thing is the Samardzija signing. He was similar in terms of record, and money received, to 2 other FA pitchers that off-season. They were Jordan Zimmermann, who was MLBTRs 7th ranked FA, and Mike Leake, #12 (Samardzija was ranked 11th).
Samardzija gave the best return out of those 3. Samardzija was above league average until injured in his 3rd year, and wound up slightly below league average overall. Zimmermann was a disaster. The Cards gave up on Leake after 1+ season, traded him for a nobody, and paid him to pitch for the Mariners for 3+ years. He was slightly below league average as well
The only higher rated FAs that off-season were David Price, Zack Greinke, and Johnny Cueto, whom the Giants also signed. I’m not saying it was a great signing, or even good, but it wasn’t as egregiously bad as some would paint it.