The Red Sox are open to adding another right-handed hitter to their outfield mix, chief baseball officer Craig Breslow tells Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe. To that end, Abraham reports that Boston remains in contact with free agent outfielder Adam Duvall’s camp.
Duvall had a solid, if volatile, 2023 season. Signed to a one-year, $7MM contract over the offseason, he was arguably the best hitter in MLB for the first couple weeks. Duvall ran a .455/.514/1.030 line over his first 37 plate appearances before fracturing a bone in his left wrist while diving for a fly ball. The injury cost him two months.
He was mired in an extended slump upon coming off the injured list, limping to a .175/.253/.313 showing through the All-Star Break. Duvall found his stride again coming out of the Break, raking at a .293/.349/.654 clip through the end of August. The year ended on a dismal note, as he struck out in over 40% of his plate appearances while hitting .149/.177/.324 from September 1 on.
Despite the extreme peaks and valleys, Duvall’s overall offensive production was well better than average. He hit 21 homers with a .247/.303/.531 slash in 353 plate appearances. Boston’s decision to give him nearly 500 innings in center field predictably didn’t work out well, as he rated between three and five runs below average by Statcast and Defensive Runs Saved. Duvall has been a plus defender in left field throughout the course of his career though. Between the strong corner outfield defense and 30-homer upside, he’s a valuable player despite high strikeout totals and subpar on-base marks.
The Angels are the only other team that has been publicly linked to Duvall this offseason. At age 35, it seems likely he’ll sign another one-year pact, although there’s an outside chance he lands a second guaranteed season.
Breslow wasn’t with the Sox when they signed Duvall last January. Yet the front office has sought right-handed power in the outfield throughout his first offseason at the helm. Boston already swung a trade for Tyler O’Neill. They were linked to Teoscar Hernández before he signed a one-year, $23.5MM pillow contract with the Dodgers. Duvall would be significantly cheaper.
Even as the Sox pursued Hernández, they’d pointed to the rotation as their biggest priority. Boston took a rebound flier on Lucas Giolito. Not long thereafter, they subtracted Chris Sale in the trade to add Vaughn Grissom from the Braves. While Giolito seems a safer bet than Sale to log a full workload, the pair of moves leaves the Sox with the same number of starters they had at the beginning of the winter.
Breslow told Abraham the current rotation consists of four pitchers: Giolito, Brayan Bello, Kutter Crawford and Nick Pivetta. That’d leave Garrett Whitlock, Tanner Houck and Josh Winckowski competing for the final spot. Offseason acquisitions Cooper Criswell and Max Castillo are among the depth options on the 40-man roster.
Of course, that’s not necessarily the mix they’ll take to Spring Training. Breslow conceded their efforts to add rotation help have thus far “been a challenge” but said they’re “still engaged in conversations with free agents and teams via trade.” The Sox have been loosely tied to top arms Blake Snell and Jordan Montgomery (more so the latter) during the offseason, but more recent reports indicated they were looking at the next tiers down. With mid-level arms like Shota Imanaga and Marcus Stroman recently coming off the board, the free agent supply is dwindling beyond Snell and Montgomery.
That hints at payroll questions that have hung over the offseason. The Sox opened the 2023 season with a player payroll in the $181MM range, according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts. That ranked 12th in the majors, their first time outside the top 10 this century. Roster Resource projects their 2024 payroll in a similar range, a little under $178MM. They’re almost $40MM away from next year’s base luxury tax threshold.
An offseason headlined by Giolito and trade pickups of Grissom and O’Neill presumably isn’t what many in the fanbase envisioned. That’s especially true after team chairman Tom Werner vowed in early November the organization would go “full throttle” to put their two straight last place finishes behind them.
Werner walked that phrasing back in a conversation with Sean McAdam of MassLive this afternoon. “Maybe that wasn’t the most artful way of saying what I wanted to say, which is that we’re going to be pressing all levers to improve the team,” he said. “In the end, nobody’s happy with our performance the last few years. Some years, we go after somebody who is about to be a free agent, or was a free agent, as it pertains to Trevor Story or Raffy Devers.”
After noting the organization made an unsuccessful run at Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Werner added the Sox “certainly aren’t happy with the current roster as it was at the end of last year, so if I was going to say it again, I would say that we’re going to be pressing all levers and weren’t going to be happy with just one (method) — that includes free agency, trades or talent from Triple and Double A. … In the end, we don’t have a line in terms of our payroll that we look at as much as trusting that Craig is going to deliver on his assurance that we’re going to be competitive.“
Lol walking back “Full Throttle” this team will not be good again until Henry gives a crap again or sells the team. Maybe they will accidentally put together a good team before then. But it’ll be an accident.
Basically Breslow just admitted to the Ray’s philosophy “but Bloom didn’t get it done so they hired me”.
Finally a glimpse of honesty. About time. It’s only middle of January and off season is almost over. They think their getting any of my money? No chance.
It’s only middle of January and off season is almost over.
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The off-season isn’t measured in terms of a calendar. It is measured in terms of who signed and who is left.
Or more precisely, who is left that interests me. In this regard, Snell, Monty, Chapman, Clevinger and, to a lesser extent, Turner and Duvall are still available.
And. almost as important, there are 7 other FAs that other teams will be pursuing.
It’s Boycott time unfortunately in 2024 or we eat what we accept.
so the guys point is that he is upset with the Red Sox lack of doing anything and your response is to lecture him on the off season and your interpretation of it of its definition?
The poster never cared about what interests you.
“other teams…” you know teams that ARE not the Red Sox.
Reading comprehension is your friend.
Joe : unless they are trading Yoshida what is the point of getting Duvall or Turner ? They have young outfielders let them play . DH Yoshida or bring back Bobby Dalbec for DH. Who cares if he strikes out 50% of the time . This team isn’t going anywhere . Signing one of them would be a PR move at this point
What BS.
si.com/mlb/red-sox/news/red-sox-ownership-blames-c…
Dewey – I’ve explained the process many, many times and if you don’t submit the requests for funding deals YOU WILL NEVER GET FUNDING.
I completely agree that ownership is not the bottleneck. It’s Breslow just like it was Bloom. Heck they gave Bloom money for Story, Devers and Yoshi that was way too much. Then they gave Breslow money of Grissom, O’Neill and Giolito that was way too much.
They don’t seem to be limiting ANYTHING!! Only the GMs are creating the non-spending and the spending they did was bad!!! The last truly great acquisition was JD in 2018!!!
If you think their signing them you haven’t been paying attention
Dewey – This was discussed this morning, of course it’s total BS but Werner is not throwing Breslow under the bus. I think he’s just supporting Breslow by saying he trusts his choices.
But yeah, it’s absolutely absurd to try and claim there’s no budget/limit on spending.
The key part of that article is “Breslow could have fielded a strong pitching staff while being frugal by adding Michael Wacha, Seth Lugo and/or Shota Imanaga.”. The Sox were “supposedly” interested in all of them. Passing all of them up leads one to believe they are aiming big (Montgomery or Snell) or looking to make a big trade. Because if they don’t have any intention of overpaying for Monty or Snell, they darn well should have signed one or two of those three other pitchers.
What a cluster.
Breslow is basically continuing what Bloom was doing, but Breslow has apparently convinced ownership he can be competitive at the MLB level while doing it.
“As I’ve gotten to know this organization better through the conversations I’ve had with ownership, they absolutely are still supportive of assembling a World Series team as quickly as we possibly can,” Breslow told Abraham. “But I think the reality is that it’s going to require a step forward from the young position players. It’s going to require the build-out of a talent pipeline of arms that we can acquire, we draft, and we can develop internally.”
“And it’s going to require aggressive player development in the minor leagues and the major leagues so guys that we think are the next wave — (Marcelo) Mayer and (Roman) Anthony and (Kyle) Teel, that group — are not just big leaguers but impact big leaguers. The convergence of all those pieces is the fastest path to a World Series team. … We want to build this thing in a way that there’s not just quality once in a while but there’s quality paired with consistency.”
nbcsportsboston.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/craig-bresl…
All – Great job with the quotes.
Breslow is like Bloom in that he’s a master of misdirection when commenting on the ball club.
He doesn’t seem to understand his resources. He has six recent graduates from the minors that have proven the MLB is not too much for them but he focuses on the pretenders acquired by Bloom.
If you watched Duran, Rafaela and Abreu then you should realize you have talented young outfielders. Suggesting we need outfielders means suggesting young players won’t develop. Then you state you want to develop the young players!!!!
The guy is a double talker just like Bloom. I’m good with firing him now and finding someone who wants to win NOW.
TF – What is it about Henry that makes you defend him all the time? He is the one who sets the overall budget, and he is the one who instructed Breslow on how he wants the team run. There isn’t a baseball executive alive who would leave a large amount of budgeted money unspent. Spending greatly increases the chances of success, which in turn makes the head of baseball ops look good. Ask Friedman and AA and Dombrowski to name a few. Breslow is quite aware of this. He’s inexperienced, but he is far from dumb! LOL!
It’s simply spin. I’m guessing Breslau signed based on representations such as the “full throttle” quote but Henry refuses to allow a budget like in year’s past as the conglomerate uses funds elsewhere. Who really thinks Breslau signed up for this crap?
Sorry all. Breslau? Meant Breslow of course…
Misdirection in the sense that he appears to be blaming their minor league system and drafting for any recent and near future failures. Just go ahead and say you’re in the toughest division in baseball and need to temper expectations.
Of course that sort of high level pre-emptive blame deflection does make Breslow a rising star in corporate America, he’ll go far!
dewey – Breslow may have been looking for a promotion and was unsuccessful, so this was his opportunity to build his resume. Sort of like making a deal with the devil, he will gut it out for a few years and then use this experience to get a better job elsewhere.
I’m guessing many of us have done similar, right? Taken an unappealing job with the clear intention of building our resume and gaining experience, then leaving for better opportunities.
dewey – Maybe you were thinking of the real Dewey’s legendary Charlie Lau approach to hitting when you wrote Breslau? ;O)
@FPG….It isn’t Henry who sets the budget, it’s Werner. Henry runs FSG, Werner runs the Sox.
Breslow kind of threw Werner under the bus about the full throttle comment. Reading between the lines you can see Breslow is going to take a year to see what he has for roster and evaluate from there. Which I think is smart.
I fully expected to land Yamamoto and Monty based on Werner’s comment.
It was reported that it was Henry who cancelled the winter townhall, not Werner.
Remember what I said about Henry’s plans for Werner?
Werner is toast. Dead man walking. Henry’s going to launch him at the end of the season.
DBH – Great to see you my friend, it’s been a while!
I know Werner is the largest minority shareholder, how would Henry get rid of him? Isn’t it up to the board of directors to remove the chairman?
I just don’t see how the chairman and minority owner would have final say on the budget, over the principal owner. Especially when considering how much the Red Sox financials impact the FSG consolidated financials.
Also it makes me wonder how Werner finds the time to also be chairman of Liverpool and the Penguins, and continue producing so many TV shows.
FPG, the board votes. It is mostly about profit, but also how the public views the product.
Twitter was the perfect example. Jack Dorsey, who started the company, was voted out as CEO by a board that held almost 0% of the company because they represented the real owners… the share holders.
FSG is just like any other company these days… mostly owned by finance corporations. .
DBH – That’s what i thought, so wouldn’t Henry have to influence the board to oust Werner? I would be surprised if that happens because Werner is so well established in the MLB community over several decades. As long as the team continues to make large profits from their cheapness, I don’t see why the board would make a change. Usually it happens when the financials aren’t looking good, that was certainly the case with Dorsey.
Yeah Redbird is a huge factor, they bought a huge part of FSG and now have a large say in operations. I’m telling ya, a big chunk of profits are getting funneled to fund the Corners. That’s their primary focus, it’s Henry’s dream. By the time it’s done he will be mid-80’s and ready to sell.
DBH – What about baseball is so complicated that it takes a year to figure it out? Seriously, it’s not quantum physics or brain surgery. It’s a 26 piece puzzle that needs to be configured with the right pieces, some are there, some are missing and some are not good for the picture.
Breslow is a genius and I’m a lowly baseball lifer, why does it take him so long to solve the puzzle?
Here are the puzzle pieces:
C – Not good but potential with Teel
1B – Casas = all set
2B – Grissom – all set
SS – Story – bad piece that needs replacing
3B – Empty
LF – Abreu with Anthony coming so Breslow adds an expensive 0’Neill for no reason
CF – Duran – all set
RF – Rafaela – all set
DH – Devers – all set albeit way, way too expensive (albatross)
SP1 – NEEDED
SP2 – NEEDED
SP3 – Bello – all set
SP4 – Houck – all set (got Giolito for way too much money)
SP5 – Crawford – all set
Back-up SP – Pivetta – good for 1 year
Stress Inning guy – Whitlock – all set
Righty Relief – Winckowski and Martin – good one year
Lefty Relief – NEEDED
Closer – Jansen – set for 1 year
So why will it take him a year to do what I just did? All the other behind the scenes shuffling to improve the farm or improve the dept or move players like Yoshi, Price and others is great but needs to happen AFTER the big NEEDED steps.
Werner is NOT the problem, Breslow is just like Bloom was. He may not be destructive like Bloom but he’s every bit as indecisive as Bloom and his first few choices are highly questionable so why should future choices be any better. DD proved he knew what he was doing immediately and Bloom proved he DID NOT KNOW what he was doing immediately. My take on Breslow is he too DOES NOT KNOW what he is doing and will not provide a winning program in the near future despite having $237MM to spend less of course the money he wasted on the Sale buy down.
NO MORE WAIT 3 YEARS!!!! Perform or parish!!! Need to make the t-shirts!!!
Where’s Yoshida or Bernadino?
Damn if I hear 1 more time that the Sox are trying to build a team to compete “every” year I swear I am going to barf. Henry has been saying this BS for as long as I can remember yet we have SO MANY LAST PLACE finishes since then.
Randy – You know how Henry built his fortune, right?
He is completely emotionally unattached to the Red Sox, and if you Google John Henry Liverpool you’ll see that football team’s fanbase has the exact same complaints.
you’ll see that football team’s fanbase has the exact same complaints.
========================
I don’t really follow European football, but my impression is that Liverpool is more successful than before Henry purchased them?
Joe, so are the Red Sox.
Joe – I’m not the one to ask, I don’t follow it either. I just occasionally read about Liverpool because of Henry, and I know right now the fanbase there is ticked off because of a lack of spending.
suit – Thank you for posting that quote, as depressing as it is.
Breslow made it crystal clear they will not be filling holes by spending on premium talent, and he made it crystal clear they don’t intend to contend until the “next wave” of prospects become solidly established major leaguers, and they don’t intend to contend until the “talent pipeline” they are working on is fully in place and productive.
Very, very depressing. Starting all over with a “hopefully better” version of Bloom’s penny-pincher approach. At least he finally came out and said it.
Fever: Good summary. The future seems to be laid out in those quotes. Although Breslow apparently assured ownership they will be competitive according to Werner. So, it sounds like Breslow said he can build and be competitive at the same time.
If you ask me, Werner threw Breslow under the bus with this quote:
“In the end, we don’t have a line in terms of our payroll that we look at as much as trusting that Craig is going to deliver on his assurance that we’re going to be competitive.“
He’s basically saying that Breslow can get more money to build the 2024 team but Breslow assures them they can be competitive where they are, which is a bold face lie. They wouldn’t have lost out on Yamamoto if Breslow had the authority to make the highest bid. It’s all smoke and mirrors from ownership, but they are already trying to pin another losing season on Breslow and his “assurance of being competitive”. No wonder so many qualified POBO candidates turned down the job!
suit – I’m not sure how active you are in the Red Sox community, I can tell you this interview and the timing of it was expected. The media and fanbase really laid into ownership for cancelling the Town Hall, and they wanted to know what’s going on and hear about the direction/plan that is in place especially after Werner’s very conflicting message that was sent earlier. Mission accomplished.
EVERY big market team should build and be competitive at the same time, ALWAYS. You do what Craig said to build the pipeline, but you also spend in the interim to fill holes. Clearly there are no plans to do the latter, because clearly winning is not a priority right now and probably won’t be until the Corners is complete.
All we can do is hope the decline in fan interest and corresponding drop in revenue will influence Henry to raise the budget a little more even if it’s just temporary at times.
Dotty – When you see even INTERNAL candidates like Raquel Ferreira turn down interview requests, you know the position was too unappealing to many.
Agreed, Dorothy. Werner is obviously trying to deflect blame already. As I told FPG above and a couple weeks about, Werner’s job is on the line.
FSG (i.e Henry) will remove Werner at the end of the season.
But hey, he can always buy a minor league team!
Fpg i think you are assuming alot with why Ms Ferreira turned doem the interview yet is more than happy to remain with the team. There have never been any public comments on her reasons beyond what she has said so there is no basis for your comment..how do you explain another internal candidates being a finalist..perhaps she knows and respects eddie and wouldnt presume to be better..or maybe its not the right time for her..there are no facts here just speculation.and its not productive
Pool – While neither one of us can speak for her, the vague explanation she gave for removing herself as a candidate was eerily similar to so many others who turned down interview requests.
Obviously she won’t say anything negative about the organization, but look at her words …. “not the right move for me now” …. and “doesn’t make sense for me”. … and “not closing the door on any future opportunity”.
So she is clearly saying she would like to have a position similar to the one Breslow now has, but not that particular position at that particular time with that particular organization.
Seems quite odd to say the least, a highly ambitious 25-year employee who is already an AGM turning down a huge internal promotion but saying she’d be open to other possibilities in the future. She is well aware whomever got the position would likely be there for at least 4 years, and there’s a very limited number of similar openings each year throughout MLB.
And if you noticed, she didn’t apply for the vacant GM position either.
How do I explain another internal candidate being a finalist? That candidate doesn’t have as strong a resume, and therefore has more limited options than Raquel. Therefore they had more motivation to pursue the position.
With all due respect the logic involved in interpreting her candidacy withdrawal is supported by facts and is helpful in identifying why so many others turned down the same job. The Red Sox have become an organization that both players and executives avoid, that is a huge issue that needs to be addressed and resolved.
Remove Werner as what? He will still be the largest minority owner. They can’t force him to sell.
Life – I’m guessing remove him as chairman, but Henry alone can’t do that.
Boycott time in Boston by RSN in 2024
True, BBL, but they can force him out of a management position. Just ask Jack Dorsey of Twitter, Steve Jobs or Apple, Travis Kalanick of Uber, Jerry Yang of Yahoo, just to name a few.
Look up Mark Eberhard of Tesla (he was a the cofounder). He was FIRED by Musk.
Lots and lots of examples of corporations removing owners and sometimes even major shareholders.
Does he realize the odds are not on his side and maybe one of the Sox top 5 prospects will ever become an impact player at the major league level?
Life – If he becomes as good at trades as Dombrowski was, he could use some of those prospects to make Sale-type trades.
But the difference with Dombrowski is that he was allowed to fill the remaining holes via spending, whereas it seems like Breslow is not allowed.
So if Breslow does trade Yorke or Mayer for a young cost controlled SP, down the road he’s not gonna spend big money for a middle infielder to replace them.
Agreed, FPG. And so far, he does seem to be pretty good at trades. I also like the moves he is making inside the organization.
I really got my hopes up and really excited after hearing ‘full throttle…’
That that turned out to be a lie isn’t on Breslow, in my mind anyway.
DBH – I agree 100%, the lie isn’t on Breslow.
I can understand the team not wanting to say “We will not be spending to compete this year”, but they shouldn’t have lied about spending. There are plenty of ways to avoid a subject or phrase an answer discreetly without lying.
“And it’s going to require aggressive player development in the minor leagues and the major leagues so guys that we think are the next wave — (Marcelo) Mayer and (Roman) Anthony and (Kyle) Teel, that group — are not just big leaguers but impact big leaguers. ”
===================================
I love that part. There are some things that the RS have traditionally done well. Developing the best players, particularly fielding and pitching, is not one of them.
I don’t want to go all “old guy” on everyone, but when I first started following in the late ’60s, we had almost no bad fielders, and we had a lot of guys that were GG caliber.
100% agree JoeB. I wonder if the Red Sox are actually the absolute worst developers of pitching or if it’s just my imagination for the last 40 years.
All true and that’s fine…but it’s time for Redsox Nation to withdraw all spending in 2024 until we signs 2 stud Aces and a Superstar Bat this winter of 2024, send the message now Redsox Nation or it’ll be their new way of operating forever.
Suit : I agree: Breslow walked into a mess
What is Breslow talking about? This is totally unacceptable.
Fire him NOW!
Cora needs to be canned a long time before Breslow. Breslow just got there. Cora the Cheater is awful, but keeps a job because he’s buddies with Henry.
Insane – Perhaps that’s one reason why Cora wasn’t canned yet, he’s being saved to point fingers at when/if the Sox become a last place team again this year.
Interestingly, the problem doesn’t seem to be Breslow from my perspective, nor does it appear to have been Bloom. I believe It is the false hope for big markets in becoming the Rays organization and thus increasing already large profits. It’s why you see the Rays executives continually hired. Big markets should beware of trying to operate like small markets… it doesn’t work for them.
I believe it was Ken Rosenthal that recently opined that owners all want to become the Rays in that they remain “competitive” yet have low payroll commitments.
YC
“Big markets should beware of trying to operate like small markets… it doesn’t work for them.”
And why would that be?
Because they don’t have the requisite make-up to:
A) Draft and develop like these teams; and
B) take years off of the playoffs (or tank completely) while waiting on talent to develop from the minors to fill holes in their roster.
In short, their fans are smarter than they often give credit for. They understand that their big market teams have the ability to supplement their roster through FA and retain their own FAs, but choose not to in these cases. They don’t care about the owner becoming a bigger billionaire, while the team they ardently support finishes last; they care about the owner committing to win with their loyal fans.
YC
“Because they don’t have the requisite make-up to:
A) Draft and develop like these teams;”
Why don’t they?
“B) take years off of the playoffs (or tank completely) while waiting on talent to develop from the minors to fill holes in their roster.”
They shouldn’t need to.
Instead of tanking, they should have the ability to fortify the team with free agents to avoid the lean years.
They should be able to take all the positives from the Rays and leave out most of the negatives.
There’s no reason they can’t operate in that way, and no reason they shouldn’t
Yeah, I agree with you that they should be able to do it better, but they don’t. Wrong personnel? perhaps. Lack of creativity from GMs? Probably. Or perhaps it’s just not as easy as it seems it should be to blend the two methods together(?).
I don’t know. Wish I had the definitive answer because I’d be hired by about 15 different teams to teach them how to do it. But, truth be told I don’t think it’s working for Boston; otherwise why fire Bloom?
“Blend the two methods together”…Correct. Proper scouting and development + a mix of free agents when needed. Bingo Clip.
“Don’t have the requisite make-up.” Winner-Winner! Evaluating/scouting a ballplayer is the hardest thing to do next to actually playing the game itself.
P.S. Clip, and just to give 1 slight example, I reside in SoCal. I have for a long time. Used to play ball all around here for a long time. SoCal is a never-ending, limitless hot bed for HS and Juco talent. Every year, for the past 20 years, I have watched pro prospects go undrafted. Why? They were never scouted in the 1st place. When you are drinking from a well that dries up, you never get thirsty. You grow complacent. You go after low hanging fruit. A lot of people don’t wanna believe that. They think that all these orgs got every box checked, all their bases covered. Such a fallacy. Tell Cashman to get a few guys down here in the Los Angeles region and start having a looksy at some of these kids. The Juco’s as well. My estimate is that HUNDREDS of pro prospects are going undrafted JUST IN THIS REGION every year because 1. The scouts are not there and 2. They don’t know what the heck they are looking for. Yes, you can’t scout every kid at every school, but you gotta know what you are looking for in the first place. Not every prospect can have 5 tools and throw 102 with a 99mph splitter.
YC
“Yeah, I agree with you that they should be able to do it better, ”
““Big markets should beware of trying to operate like small markets… it doesn’t work for them.””
We’ve made progress
The Sox charge premiums for EVERYTHING like a big market club yet are no longer spending to win in the short term. Nothing though guarantees long term success. The Sox and Giants still have the most championships this century. My question is could the Sox have won another if they didn’t change in 20? Now that more teams are no longer worried about resetting the tax base, it’s time for ownership to do the same. They will not lower prices to Oriole or Rays’ levels so why fans forking it over? Enough already. Return the profit to the team like Yawkey did it sell. Henry could have made his name on the championships but now many fans seem to want him out. It’s only been six years since that last duck boat ride yet it feels like ages. Go back and look at the posts from 19 when Yankee fans were predicting the demise starting with Betts moving on. No one though predicted this.
I have to laugh, It’s not the Rays they want to be like, it’s the Houston Astros. They basically cleaned house about 8 or 10 years ago, built up a great farm system and now compete every year without committing millions of dollars to LONG term FA contracts. They sign there own players. The Sox are getting there. I think letting Bogy go instead of using the money they spent on Story was stupid. But the expectation that they will BUY a world series every year is crazy. You wait the Dodger’s day of reckoning is coming.
And why would that be?
=========================
I doubt that is correct. The angle would be for the large market teams to act like the Dodgers, the mid-market teams to act like Mil and StL, and the small market teams to act like TB.
Clipper: I know you have said before that large market teams can’t operate like the Rays. I guess the fans and media just don’t tolerate it.
Yes, Suit, that is a major component of it, imho. I mean, of course they *could* do it, or do it better than they are. But they would alienate the entire fanbase and they would lose boatloads of money, imo.
I think the model for big markets should be the Dodgers (not referring to just buying up all the talent, but rather developing a good farm while supplementing wherever they feel they need to). Friedman is an ex-Ray executive, of course. But he is the exception to the rule (or perhaps the Dodgers ownership is).
suit – That’s not fair. Fans and media don’t tolerate perennial non-contenders because ownership is cheap.
Find a way for teams to consistently compete for championships without a Top Ten payroll and fans/media would be quite happy.
You know what’s especially funny about your quote? Fans of the Rays can’t tolerate the Rays operating like the Rays, that’s why they consistently have the worst attendance in MLB.
I have yet to meet a Rays fan who is happy with not having ever won a championship, or happy with their best players always being let go because of money.
If all the orgs operated the same way, selecting a GM would otherwise be a piece of cake. You can’t copy anyone. You gotta take your own path and make your own mark. If any strategy was bullet proof we should have had numerous recent world series repeat winners. It’s all scouting in my book(2nd is minor league coaching & development), Clip. I don’t see how EVERY team doesn’t have an equal advantage at sourcing and evaluating talent. These players don’t scout and sign themselves. Hiring a surplus of good scouts and placing them accordingly is mere peanuts compared to relying on over paying for FA’s every year. The sad fact of the matter is that there aren’t even ENOUGH scouts, let alone good/great ones.
Clip – Yes and no.
The problem right now is not Breslow, he clearly has a small budget to work with.
Bloom had a smaller budget than Dombrowski, but Bloom also made a lot of huge blunders.
I think the Rays executives have been leaving because they earned a good reputation, built up their resume, and wanted to cash in with more lucrative opportunities that only big market teams can offer. Clearly the Dodgers didn’t hire Friedman to save money, they hired him to build a championship level team capable of increasing their bottom line with a huge boost in revenue.
Do you remember the 2021 Yanks/Sox Wildcard game? During the broadcast ARod went off about how big market teams shouldn’t try to turn themselves into the Rays, because it just won’t work. He made a lot of sense that day.
They’re hoping for another 2013 miracle. Pick up scraps and hope they mesh.
Insane – They don’t have postseason heroes like Lester and Ortiz, or the most dominant closer in baseball like Koji. The 2013 team started the year with a lot more talent than this year’s team as of now.
Agreed…it’s Boycott time in Boston by RSN as a whole! If we don’t it becomes our acceptance not theirs. DO IT…box scores for free in 2024!
Absolutely agree. Henry should either sell his tanking investments or sell the Sox. Or sell everything off. No, he didn’t know the pandemic was coming right after closing the sale. Call it bad luck. But sell the team to someone who cares.
Where the hell were they on Brent Suter?
What a great pick-up that would have been.
A lefty that could spot start or go long? WTF.
Gotta love the Reds
Boycott comin in Boston in 2024
78-82. Book it.
What about the other two games? Are you predicting a shortened season?
Wow. Is there going to be a two day lockout again?
Hopefully. Given the division, while they can surprise, I can see 71 wins before I see 91 in 24.
ok so say 78-84. much better eh?
bcjd – Maybe he’s expecting two rainouts against the Athletics and Pirates which won’t be made up because all three teams will be out of contention by Labor Day.
@Fever Pitch Guy
You’re giving the A’s too much credit. They’ll be out of it on Opening Day.
Pirates will be out of it by Independence Day.
Exactly. The Sox open in Seattle so will likely be in last place when their season starts.
York – Touché!
Cancelled. Lack of interest.
Erik – Too high. Right now. 74 – 88!! 5th place in the division and 8th pick in the draft in 2025.
and the next SS drafted
I dont even see 74 wins. probably 72-90 team. We are the worst team in the ALE by a good margin.
daro
”
dont even see 74 wins. probably 72-90 team.”
Imagine thinking you know baseball so well you can guess if a team will win 72 or 74 games
Delusional
And Cora’s job will still be secure.
Insane – I think this will be his last year as Red Sox manager, the only question is whether he gets kicked upstairs or kicked out.
Bang that drum slowly baby
RSN won’t be booking anything in 2024. That costs money…and we’re fresh out I’m afraid John Henry for 2024 until further notice!
♪Full Throttle♫ The musical coming next! Starring the music man himself – Tom Werner. Craig Breslow admits starting pitching is difficult to get…well when you offer nothing in terms of prospects or $…um Yeah it is difficult to get. You get guys rebounding from TJ surgery
Red Sox don’t have issues with their regional sports network, correct? Why are they being cheap? Did John Henry forget how to open up the pocketbook? Red Sox were a top three in spending…
They own the network
Tang – If NESN is losing money, it would impact the owner of the Red Sox.
And BTW the NESN VP for Digital Media was convicted of stealing $575K from the network.
Pocket change Fever. Acoss, the team now has many interests and see higher returns investing elsewhere.
Fever- that VP who stole the money at NESN, was his last name four letters long and start with a “C” and end in an “a”?
grnmtn – Haha …. I see your point! And he probably bragged about it to the team also!
The bruins certainly aren’t losing them money
How is signing a guy to a $313
contract cheap?
the devers contract was their apology to the fanbase for being so cheap, but it only made us angrier, because devers was the absolute last member of the old core that should have been handed 313 million dollars. so, cheap? no. but definitely still incompetent
LMAO
aggee10 – That was Bloom and it was exponentially stupid.
Bloom gave devers $313 million out of his own pocket? That’s very generous of him.
aggee – Well for starters, they signed him to a $292M contract extension. The difference is due to deferrals.
Secondly, you have to look at the entire team payroll … not just one player. The amount they’ve spent on team payroll has been reduced so much they were 13th in MLB last year, and right now are on pace to be even lower this year.
crocus – Look at their total spending the past couple years and so far this year, then think about their 3rd-highest revenue in MLB. They are 100% cheap, no doubt about it.
As for Devers, he probably would have been traded if Story turned out to be the huge star Bloom expected. But he didn’t, and they needed to keep at least one star.
Also I see quite a few people here who have flip-flopped on the decision to extend Devers. All i heard for years was “Gotta sign Devers because he’s so young” and they often pointed out “he will be only 36 during the last year of the contract, that’s what you want”. They also pointed out Xander and Mookie are 4 years older than Devers, which means the Sox would get 4 more “prime” years by signing Devers instead.
Y’all are making JoeBrady look right about Red Sox fans getting angry even when they get what they want. .
Hey, Fever— I can’t speak for other Red Sox fans, but I have always been opposed to a Devers extension. He is not the kind of player who projects well past 30. Reminds me a little of Giancarlo Stanton, lots of raw power and hitting ability but not a very diverse athletic profile. He’ll break down entirely before the contract’s half over. (And for what it’s worth, I thought the Story signing was a disaster in the making when it happened, too.)
Aggee, $313 bucks is a bit steep but I have seen some come in over a grand with incentives met..
thecroc = Very well said!!!
Why is the Devers deal bad?
1 – The man can’t field a lick
2 – The guy has been pudgy his whole life so projecting his weight issues is easy. Doubt me, look at Miggy. A better player by far than Devers who started at the same age, became a legend and faded away after 32!! If Devers is good to 32 that will be exceeding expectations. His contract for 10 years starts at age 27 so 28, 29, 30, 31 and 32 if we are lucky at most 6 of 10 seasons will be good.
Bloom hung an anchor around the Boston payroll for a decade. $313.5MM is the total contract. They played games with the cash flow to lower the AAV to a mere $29.318 but the contract is the contract so $313.5MM on a guy without a glove whose career OPS+ prior to the deal was a slightly above average 124 with 1 of 7 seasons being over 140 (141)
In contrast, Michael (Giancarlo) Stanton in 2014 signed a 13 year $325MM with Miami then got traded to the Yankees in 2018. Before his 13 year deal Stanton at age 20 put up a 118 OPS+ in 100 games, in 2011 his OPS+ was 141 (Dever’s peak number) at age 21, then it jumped to 155 at 22 before Miami did the deal. He responded to the deal by putting up 131, 164, 159 120 and 169 at ages 23 to 27 before NY traded for him. Those 5 first years ranged from 120 to 169 with three of the five years far above Devers best year). Stanton started the contract at age 23 not 27. NY got the last 8 years of his deal and he has two years left after putting up 130, 138, 145 136 112 and 87. FYI… the dramatic drop happened at 32!!!
Most folks consider the Stanton deal as a bust. He will have significantly outperformed Devers in years 1 to 5 but that will grow exponentially after year 5 until year 11 of the Devers deal when they will converge. The problem is the Devers deal is only 10 years long!!!. YES the Devers contract is far worse than the generally accepted horrible contract to Stanton. That’s how badly Bloom screwed Boston.
crocus – The Devers contract is definitely an overpay, no question about it. I pictured something around $250M/10 with the expectation he’d move to 1B for at least half of the contract.
He is definitely not athletic, definitely not in shape, but I don’t see him as another Panda or Prince Fielder either. I see him very, very similar to Manny …. likes to swing the bat and nothing more, wears baggy uniform that makes him look fatter than he actually is.
As for Story, you probably know my opinion on that one … I was strongly against it from the beginning.
TF – Great post as always!!
Even Devers said he was shocked at how big the contract offer was!!!
TF
“The guy has been pudgy his whole life so projecting his weight issues is easy. Doubt me, look at Miggy. ”
I’m looking at him. He performed into his 40’s
Oh wait. That’s Bartolo Colon
I guess you can’t just say that because one guy tailed off another one will
Fever – You know Devers was NOT what I wanted and that hasn’t changed since he butchered 14 plays in 149 chances in 2017 after his dbag AA manager told everyone his defense was really improving!!! What a bunch of crap. It’s that whole DR Academy thing raising it’s ugly face. This guy couldn’t field at 16 and still can’t at 26 and he never will but he gets to screw over all the pitchers because he’s privileged, he’s Dominican Republic Academy poster boy!!!
Nope, I never wanted Mookie to go, nor Benny, not Bogey nor Nate. I wanted Devers to be traded so we could keep JD and his 2023 season proves just how great a hitter he’s been and should still be in Boston. Panda II (Devers) has been a joke for 7 years. His hitting peaked in 2021 with a 141 OPS+.
Mookie peaked at 186 in 2018. JD peaked at 173 in 2018. Those are the guys you keep. Bogey peaked at 129 in 2019 and is far more comparable to Devers except he’s an excellent defender. So who got the big contract? The least qualified guy in the bunch. But it makes sense because Bloom paid the worthless Kiki $10MM a year which was $9MM too high.
As the guy who has taken crap from the majority of the people on this site for not liking Bloom, Cora or Devers I have yet to be wrong in my evaluation of the three. Devers has sucked at fielding since day 1 and I got bombarded by guys like Bruin1012 and others about how he was improving. I pointed out any small sample can create an illusion of change but in the end he has no hands, not footwork, no throwing accuracy and no baseball acumen telling him when to field a ball. Cora in April 2018 got blasted by me for sitting Mookie and losing a game against a bad team in April when the team had an off day and a rain out. I offended so many people with that comment but it was spot on. He’s been screwing up sit time every season he’s been at the helm. I got blasted for blaming Cora for Sale’s problems. He pitched fine for Ventura and Farrell but after the 2018 season he completely screwed up Sale. People blamed Sale and DD for signing a stud to a reasonable contract not knowing Cora would mess with him so badly.
The Bloom posts that I got clobbered on were also spot on. His Mookie giveaway, his trade of Benny, his lack of filling holes when they needed filling at multiple trade deadlines.
Fever, I do believe many have waffled on many topics but I haven’t because I look at the numbers and keep the emotion out of the decisions. Mookie at $9MM more was a no brainer but it didn’t happen. Re-signing Bogey and not signing Story was a massive mistake and I pointed to the fact that Bogey could have been offered $25MM on an extension when they got Story at $23.3MM and Boston would have been far better off.
I’m just glad it seems like many fans have learned from the Bloom experience and now are more willing to look at the numbers and see where Breslow is screwing up. The odds of Giolito being great again are low but why spend the money on him when you need true SP1 and SP2s. Why add O’Neill with four excellent young prospects ready to break out and a huge need for a SP1 and SP2 with that money?
Why do a pay down on Sale after watching the Red Sox organization struggle with pay downs from the Cherington era that lasted until the Bloom era? It makes no sense to pay someone to play for another team. Give ATL a prospect if they think Grissom for Sale is an uneven trade. That’s a rookie mistake and we can’t have those after Bloom did so many .
TF – Yes absolutely! I know you didn’t want him extended, you made that abundantly clear about a dozen times …. a day. Haha!
Unfortunately paying the salaries of players you trade is something you do when you don’t need the money because you don’t intend to compete.
Fever – I can proudly say I always called the Devers extension stupid, and, that I always also deemed him the expendable piece of the talented players.
I won’t use ‘star’ because he’s paid like one, but doesnt play like one. He deserves a place in the ‘hall of very good’ for hitters, but his all-around play is pretty poor. The sooner he gets off the field and into the dh slot the less his eventual legacy will be tarnished.
He’s involved with too many teams playing other sports now.
TrumboRedux – $313 is a BIT steep? It’s Mt. Everest steep!!
BOYCOTT in 2024 RSNATION time…
Boycott time!
Full Throttle….off the waiver wire.
This off-season is like watching a funeral.
Stan – I feel like this off season is like watching someone try to take blood from your arm but they keep making holes but they don’t hit the blood vessel!! Painful and unproductive.
TF – And the irony is that the offseason, once they hired Breslow, was filled with so much hope!
We believed their BS when they said they want to win every year, including now.
We believed their BS when they said they would be aggressive in improving the team.
Instead of doing what the Yankees are now doing, going out and signing free agents and making big trades to improve from a bad 2023 season, the Sox are right back to “taking fliers” and “hoping for rebound seasons” and “working on building a pipeline of inexpensive young players”.
I’m still gonna keep my promise and wait one more month, but so far what they’ve done to my favorite team is absolutely gross.
Fever – Great post. Too much BS flowing still after Bloom is gone. So many missed opportunities.
In the business world many think it’s better to put a project manager in charge of getting something done rather than the smartest guy in the room because one focuses on theory and the other gets things done. We need a new PM not the thinker we have.
FYI…. it’s this bad and we haven’t even reached the date of when Bloom gave away Mookie and Price. Who knows what future evil lies in the minds of Breslow and ownership!!!
It RSN financial boycott time or it becomes our endorsement to their current garbage. Box scores are free until further notice. Let’s do this! A near empty Fenway opening day at home would be great to see. We have that power together for sure. Just need to execute it! I am doing my 1 guy small part of a HUGE NATION! Hopefully you all decide this with those who will.
Trouble with opening day: That’s like Easter Sunday for some people. They might not go to another game all season, but will show up for the home opener.
The death of RSN financial support for sure! It’s time to send that 2024 message in the wallets
I’d probably guess that the Red Sox are a 74-76 win team. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
They are only going to play 150 games this year….hmmmm. Looks like a lot of rainouts.
74 to 76 wins my apologies should have made that clear.
all good! You’re probably not too far off on that win total projection.
acoss – No need to apologize, I understood. You had the word “win” after the numbers so I knew you were talking about wins, not overall record.
pound sand buddy. he said the Sox would win 74-76 games which is likely close to right. do u r own math quiz
Agree…it’s boycott time in all spend areas for RSN. If we don’t in 24 it’ll be taken as acceptable…and clearly IT IS NOT!
I’ll give Werner credit for agreeing to the interview and facing the questions.
But that’s all.
swan – The part of Werner’s interview that is the biggest crock of crap is this: “We don’t have a line in terms of our payroll that we look at”.
This guy just can’t keep lying, I’d rather he keep his mouth shut if he’s gonna spew total BS like that. The Red Sox main focus is now on the bottom line, everyone knows it, and him denying it makes him look even more foolish than when he had Roseanne sing the anthem.
Yup agree…but it won’t stop RSN boycott in 2024
Still, if you’re going to make such an egregious statement, you’d better be prepared to back it up. Apparently, he and Henry don’t talk a lot.
Werner’s going to be trolled all season long for it.
This organization has become a joke. They’ve been building a bridge to nowhere for the past four years and it’s going to be years before they’re close to competing for a WS again. They should’ve just torn it all down when they traded Mookie and at least packed the farm. Instead they wasted just about every single opportunity to get returns on players that walked away or they traded, starting with not getting any pitching for Mookie.
Not sure a team with FOUR World Series banners in the last 20 years should be called a joke. Seems like a lot to me.
Not a Red Sox fanatic, but like them well enough and think that the 4 rings should get them more slack than it does here
Not when they are clearly not trying.
Sherm – I am eternally grateful for those 4 WS banners, but ownership has clearly given up on putting a competitive team on the field. They’ve had four years and now they’re looking at at least two to three more and they have the cajones to be the most expensive ticket in town? Yes, they are a joke.
grnmtn – Superb post, very well said!
Go look at the ticket prices and factor in they have finished last 3 of the last 4 seasons.
Goose – Exactly!
And they’ve finished in last place 6 out of the last 12 years, the most last place finishes in MLB! Can you believe that?
If finishing last 50% of the time is acceptable to John Henry, then fans should get 50% refunds on all tickets purchased during those last place years.
With 4 WS banners since’04, the Sox raised the bar with their expectations. But it seems that they’re content with those and now it’s time to sit back and laugh at the fans for continuing to fill Fenway Park. Fannies in the seats is all they seem to care about. As long as people are dumb enough to pay for those exorbitant tickets, ownership is happy. They couldn’t care less about the product on the field anymore, although in reality, one affects the other.
Fat – Not true, Sox ownership also cares about fans paying over $30 a month just to stream NESN360.
I can handle them merely being bad. I was born in ’93 so I was lucky enough to reach the age where I knew and cared what was going on in sports right on time to coincide with the greatest 20 year run any sports fan is ever going to have, period. I’m grateful for everything Henry’s ownership group has done, back when they gave a crap he was an excellent owner. He saved Fenway and gave it the facelift it needed to stay viable into the 21st century, was always trying to put a winner on the field, and any time we lost a player in a free agent or trade bidding war, it was never over the dollar signs. But those days are over. The Red Sox are just a piece of their portfolio now and all they care about is the cash flow they can extract from it.
Despite the massive success this and other Boston teams have delivered in my lifetime, I’m still not so spoiled by it that I have an entitlement mindset where my expectation is World Series or bust every year. I can handle the fact that baseball ebbs and flows and sometimes we aren’t going to be so good. The one thing I can not accept is not even trying. Which they clearly have not been ever since they fired Dombrowski. It’s incredible to think an ownership could manage to piss away all the goodwill created by 4 titles in 14 years, but that’s where we are now.
@DirtyWater04 That’s a pretty accurate take.
Dirty – My sons are roughly your age and I constantly remind them how lucky they are. I waited 48 years for a ring and my father passed away at 80 in 2003 and never saw them win.
Seeing Boston’s success in the last 20 years may have spoiled some but for those who long endured prior to the start of the success it’s fair to want it to extend into the future. The firing of DD ended the Boston run and set back the organization 5 to 10 years. Bloom simply put dynamite under the building and blew it up completely leaving a rebuild that starts with DD’s farm guys.
Breslow doesn’t seem to know how to rebuild anything other than infrastructure. Getting new and better pitching coaches is great but that’s playing the long game when fans want him to play the short game like DD did.
I’m happy for your generation and the success you’ve seen. I hope the Red Sox can take out the trash (Cora) and start filling the holes rather than re-inventing the wheel in the image of the GM like Breslow seems to be doing. It’s so simple it’s ridiculous:
1 – Fire Cora
2 – Move Devers
3 – Trade Yoshi, Jansen Story, Giolito and O’Neill if possible
4 – Sign or trade for 2 SP1 type pitchers
5 – sign two lefty relievers
6 – Sign Chapman to play 3B for Devers
Those six simple steps can turn around a very ugly situation.
Right, I understand what the history was before I came along, for both the Sox and Patriots, so I’ve always understood both how unusual and lucky this golden age in the 2000’s has been, but despite it I don’t have unreasonable expectations. All I ask is that they try to put out a team that is consistently competitive, and when they do have a clear legit WS contender to occasionally go all in to try and make it happen. That’s exactly what they did in the Epstein era, the success wasn’t as consistent but the effort was there under Cherington, and then of course DD followed who is the best in the business when you want to be all in. Everything that’s followed has been pathetic. I was willing to give Bloom a chance at first because I thought they would shift towards a more Dodgers-style business model but that clearly isn’t the plan, so….yeah.
I am in the ever-shrinking minority who doesn’t seem to have a problem with Cora, I think he’s a decent manager. Not the best, but I don’t think there’s really anyone better out there waiting in the wings until Varitek is ready to go, and I haven’t followed that situation closely enough to know if he is chomping at the bit for the managerial spot or not but he’s the only other guy I can think of off the top of my head whom I’d want for the job.
Devers I am really torn on. I like him as a guy and I love his bat. With JD Martinez gone, he should have been moved to DH immediately. That’s where he belongs. Unfortunately they refused to give up on the third base experiment and got stuck having to pay him as a third baseman so now they have to keep trying to shoehorn him into the hot corner and hoping it magically works out. If they were the Red Sox of my childhood, they’d still move him off 3rd into DH anyways and find someone who can actually play the position, but of course….
I totally agree with all the rest of your points.
Sherm – You never heard of the 5-year rule, eh?
After winning a championship you are allowed to skate for 5 years max.
And the 5 years is now up.
You’re not wrong. But those of us who suffered for years with a bad product finally felt some pride starting in 2004. Then there’s the Yankee component. I’ll admit, Henry set the bar high. But it’s time to move on. Even the Mets found an owner with deep pockets and is unafraid to spend. And the Padres made us look like Pittsburgh for a couple of years. Yeah, it’s a tough fan base.
Exactly, there is no cruise control in Boston. It’s been a mostly great run for Henry’s group, so I can certainly sympathize if they don’t feel vigorous enough to keep up with the demands of owning the Red Sox. But if that’s where they are at, it’s time to say goodbye and sell. The sooner he realizes this, the sooner he has any chance to salvage what slim chance remains of him getting a fond farewell when it finally happens.
Grnmtnyeti = Building seems like such an over exaggeration. Aren’t they talking about building a bridge to somewhere they can’t find in the fog?
Troll- I think they’re trying to build one to Tampa
grnmtnyeti – You gave me an out loud laugh with that one!!!
David Price was included to dump his salary in the Mookie package so the returns were never going to be high.
YBC – I’m fully aware of that but it not only was a dumb move but a signal of what was to come.
YBC – Seriously? That’s what you think?
The Price part of the deal was after Friedman pulled down Bloom’s pants on the Mookie part he smacked him with a large paddle on the Price part.
So, think about the concept of a buy down.
My guy is SO INCREDIBLY BAD that I’m going to pay you money to play him. I’m going to lower my money under the cap by setting aside an amount so one of our players can play for someone else.
In what universe does that make sense?
Now consider the components of the trade:
LAD gets
1 – Mookie in 2020
2 – An inside track at signing the 2nd best player in baseball to an extended contract to better the organization for years
3 – David Price at $16MM a year for 3 years
BOSTON gets
1 = A league average to slightly above league average player named Verdugo who has personality issues and questionable baseball acumen and has had a back issue.
2 – Jeter Downs a guy whose name allowed him to be drafted far earlier than he should have been thanks to the interview with his mother on draft day who then stunk for 198 games prior to being promoted to AA for 12 games against two of the three worst pitching staffs in the league where he hit .333 with some power and jumped over 100 spots in the prospect ratings thanks to Friedman’s relationship with those services. Yes 12 games became far more important than the first 198 when he stunk. He got DFA less than 2 years later as one would expect if they looked at his minor league numbers.
3 – Wong – A catcher so far down the LAD catcher depth chart you might not have seen him at first glance. A young catcher who had 3 average years at ROK, A and Hi-A. Nothing special and at best a career back-up at the MLB.
Trade Evaluation
ONE SIDED IN FAVOR OF LAD
Why? They got the 2nd best player in baseball for 11 years at a reasonable price. Boston got Verdugo who stopped out performing his salary before he finished his control years, Downs a true pretender prospect who DFA’s in two years and Wong a lifetime back-up at the MLB level who is completely replaceable when his control years end could have been replaced during his control years with a better controlled catcher.
Boston got garbage and LAD got an all-star for more than a decade.
Boston paid for 1/2 of Price and got none of his value whether it was performances or trade value while lowering their available money under the CAP.
Price’s salary wasn’t dumped. Bloom took a dump on the Red Sox payroll with this deal. He lost a superstar, got under the cap but would have had he not done the deal and he gave away the two best black players on the team.
This was never about returns, this was a dumping based on racism..
@Troll To suggest that the Red Sox org is pandering to a small minority of racist fans which exist in every ballpark by shipping out Mookie and Price is pretty reaching. You can’t rant all you want with the benefit of hindsight but you should really take a look at where you direct your frustrations with the team.
Real it in man…it’s boycott time by Redsox Nation in 2024…let’s keep it 1 collective LOUD message to ownership RSNation wide.
It’s a definite financial Boycott by Redsox Nation in 2024! Has to be done collectively by us all.
So Mr. Werner you are going to lower ticket prices since all you did was cut payroll and made a LAST PLACE TEAM marginally better? LMAO
Worse
carl – As of right now, yes it’s worse on paper. The players they’ve lost have much more upside than the players they’ve gained.
I just do not have much positive to say about this off season, or the upcoming season. My gut was telling me that fan moral was so low, and the overall view by players in the league was so low with the Red Sox that we might see as many as 2 premier pitchers join the starting staff.
Perhaps another lower tier 3 or 4 type to make sure the bullpen was completely untouched to avoid another years attempt at gutting the pen to fill the rotation. A quality lefty reliever addition seemed a no brainer, and I was hoping for a surprise trade for a legit starting catcher.
I assumed they would get one of the better available second baseman as a stop gap to the eventual Mayer/Story pairing, and at least one power bat for the middle of the lineup. I assumed they would push the cap and make sure the team was a viable contender that looked every bit so, barring injuries, on paper. I felt the team had a grasp on just how bad things have become with the fans, and the league view of the team.
I could not have been more wrong, in every way. This is a last place team. The only hope is that another team in the division either performs terribly or sustains crippling enough injuries to make them worse than the Red Sox. It would take this to be a 4th place team. Make no mistake. It will require division rivals getting worse for the Red Sox to look any better under this present team mind set.
This team once again has a noncompetitive rotation. What should be a fairly good bullpen may become weak once again if it is forced into service in the rotation. We are not better defensively, or offensively.
I literally don’t like my own team.
I Don’t care if the 2024 tickets are $1.00 Redsox Nation needs to have a ZERO spend 2024 to fix their attitudes in ownership. It’s that simple…
while those comments walking back the “full throttle” quote are obviously embarrassing, the idea of a Duvall reunion actually makes a good deal of sense to me. he’s a relatively low-cost guy who’s familiar with the clubhouse and has the potential to be an impact bat when he’s on. if they’re truly giving up on deepening the rotation, they could at least put their remaining efforts toward deepening the lineup.
that being said, if they’re opening the season with exactly that pitching rotation, they’re dead in the water
thecroc – So do we not play Duran so he can play, or do we not play Rafaela so he can play or do we not play Abreu so he can play. Where is our future success going to come from? The three young guys or Duvall.
If you want to make Duvall the 4th outfielder great. WAIT we can’t O’Neill is the fourth outfielder. Wait we can only keep 13 hitters on the roster so if 4 are already outfielders do we drop the back-up catcher or the back-up middle infielder or the back-up corner infielder?
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR OR NEED FOR DUVALL unless you drop or trade one of your FUTURE outfielders.
We got so use to Bloom and his stockroom of bad back-ups we are still trying to do it. Go get back-ups to play in AAA as depth for the young future outfielders BUT DO IT AFTER WE GET TWO SPS!!!!!
Troll, I agree that starting pitching is the priority, but I also think you can never have enough depth. You’re going to have injuries over the course of a full season. If cultivating that depth means opening the season with Rafaela in AAA and Duvall on the roster, I’m not opposed to it. Rafaela’s swing-and-miss numbers could use some ironing out in the minors anyway. The only one of those guys who’s established himself as a bona fide big leaguer is Duran. Besides, the lineup’s begging for a power righty bat.
thecroc – Rafaela has been better than Abreu throughout his minor league career. He’s younger and he faced the tough pitchers in late Sept when people felt his swing and miss numbers climbed. He was 22, batting lead off and facing all-star level pitchers and struck out too much? Seriously, not too many 22 years olds I’ve watched could have done better. Just because Abreu sat against many of the great pitchers so he didn’t swing and miss doesn’t jump him from behind Rafaela to ahead of Rafaela.
Rafaela is a better athlete who puts pressure on the pitcher and catcher every time he’s on base where as Abreu doesn’t. If anyone should sit it’s Abreu not Rafaela but why not let them start.
Duvall is a water faucet in that he’s either HOT or COLD. If you guess wrong, you lose many at bats as a team. Why not let the kids play and use Duvall as a PH until he proves he’s HOT then pull the least successful youngster at that point.
As far as being left handed oriented. That’s not true if they play their best players properly. Yoshida needs to be traded for pitching and Devers needs to DH.
C – Wong Righty McGuire Lefty
1B – Casas Lefty
2B – Grissom Righty
SS – Story Righty
3B – Chapman Righty (need to acquire a big right handed 3B)
LF – Abreu Lefty O’Neill Righty
CF – Duran Lefty
RF – Rafaela Righty
DH – Devers Lefty
9 positions – 4 righy 3 lefty and 2 (1 of each)
That’s not left handed oriented. It only seems that way because of Yoshi. If Devers plays 3B and Yoshi DHs then it doesn’t really matter which side of the plate is dominant since the team won’t be competitive.
So think about a 23 year old RF who got his feet wet by playing both SS and OF at 22 and was well over .300 before he faced the best of the AL East down the stretch in Sept when BOS played 19 games vs the AL East. Then think of all the games when the comparably hitting Abreu sat due to Cora and injury and avoided the big guns and maintained the high average he and Rafaela enjoyed in the first half of Sept.
Is Duvall projected $5.6MM (down from what Bloom paid him in 2023 ($7MM) worth the lost time to guys who might be our next Benny, JBJ and Betts? Also, his .247 average in Boston in 2023 was his highest average since 2019 so can he repeat it? He hit .213 in 2022 and .228 and .237 in 2021 and 2020..
Duvall in 10 years has a .232 batting average,.291 OBP, .472 SLG and .763 OPS. It’s like I said, he’s a faucet.
TF – You’re forgetting about one guy who for some reason always gets a pass around here. The guy is making $2M this season to play mostly the easiest position, which is left field, and when he’s not a bench warmer he’s got a .466 OPS against RHP!!!
Time to get rid of him and bring in a real hitter, either Duvall or Soler or Turner would do.
crocus – I’m on board with bringing back Duvall and rotating him between LF and DH, the park was made for him and he’s had very good seasons in all but two years going back to 2015.
Unlike O’Neill who has performed poorly the past couple years.
I’m optimistic about O’Neill (he clearly had a weird relationship with Oli Marmol and got wrecked by injuries), but I’d sure sleep better at night knowing we had Duvall in the stable as well. I think O’Neill’s a roll-the-dice-and-see kind of acquisition, while Duvall would represent more of a sure thing. Not sure why people have gotten so attached to the idea of O’Neill as an everyday outfielder given his recent track record (though if he turns into one, great!).
thecroc – Duval a sure thing? WOW. He’s a slump waiting to happen. It’s like remembering two weeks of uncosnscious play by Kiki and forgeting the 24 weeks of crap hitting.
I’ll take the youngsters over both Duvall and O’Neill. Duvall costs more than 5 times as much as each youngster and won’t provide 5 times the value. With Anthony in the wings as well Boston has four potential star outfielders and they need to see if they can develop them. 2024 will hopefully be the bottom of the barrel of seasons going forward so why not use the youngster to see how good they are? If O’Neill puts up a great year then we can trade him for pitching because the odds of him continuing at that level is low. With Duvall, you have Dalbec in 5 years. Big power, inconsistent at the plate but if he’s hot he needs to be in and if he’s not he needs to sit except Duvall costs lots more than Dalbec.
Fever – whose roster spot does Duvall take?
And, looking at the OF depth chart, comparojg it to the IF chart, there’s only one backup corner infielder on the entire
40-man right now. But there’s a TON of outfielders ready.
If anyone is to be signed as a bench bat/platoon guy, they need to be 3B experienced because theres nobody to back that up outside Dalbec.
Don’t fall for Warners shiny toy dostraction
@GA— Duvall has some corner infield experience himself, actually. But I agree that CIF is a problem area on this roster.
GASox – It’s time we bring up a subject that has been basically ignored for months ……
REFSNYDER
It was fine to carry him on the roster when he had a 1.005 OPS against LHP and .792 against RHP.
Now he’s got just an .828 OPS against LHP and a putrid .466 against RHP.
As long as Cora continues to use a 13-man pitching staff, they just can’t afford to keep Ref on the active roster. I think it’s time to cut him loose and eat the $2M.
I was bewildered when they committed to Refsnyder last year and was twice as bewildered when they did it again this time around. I think the reason they cling to him is that an overabundance of their regulars are left-handed, but now that O’Neill’s in the fold I don’t think Refsnyder serves any function. Reminds me of how insistent they were on standing by Christian Arroyo even though it was obvious four years ago he was never going to transform into an every day guy.
Just because you CAN roster a guy because he’s cheap doesn’t necessarily mean you SHOULD.
Crocus –
Duvall has a total of 16.1 mlb innings at 3B, last being 2018 when he logged a single inning all season.
He’s got little more at 1B, and by little i mean not much. A total of 264.1 innings, last played 6 seasons ago in 2018 when he logged 57 innings over the year…. And of that 264 innings experience, 148.1 were a decade ago in 2014.
That’s all a long way of saying he’s a bad choice to be corner IF depth. He’s also extremely streaky. For the 2 or 3 good weeks he’s a phenomenal asset to the club, but, for the rest of the season he really really hurts the lineup.
Other than being cheap, I can’t understand what the attraction ought to be for having him on the roster. Too many young cheap OFers already who need to play to finish their development against mlb pitching already on the team
GA— I personally think that Rafaela should be starting the season in AAA to get his strikeout numbers down. He looked overmatched toward the end of last year, and while he’s clearly a long-term piece, I think he could use a bit more seasoning . Abreu and Duran are ready to be on the roster. Pairing them with O’Neill and Duvall (plus Yoshida) gives you a pretty balanced outfield group that deepens your organization at relatively low cost. This way, when one of that group (or an infielder) inevitably gets hurt, you have someone on the farm who’s ready to come up and play a full time role. With Sale and Verdugo gone, you’re also short on veteran clubhouse leaders, especially ones who have been with the organization before. I think having someone with Duvall’s experience around would be good for the team’s younger players.
I’d rather pay for Duvall than pay for Soler, which I’ve seen a lot of people advocating for. I always thought it made more sense to bring him back than to shell out for Teoscar Hernández, too. I can understand why people are excited to see Rafaela and the other young guys play, but the most successful organizations (Dodgers, Rays, etc.) consistently have great depth. Since you can’t option the free agents you sign, sometimes cultivating that depth means letting a Duvall play on the roster so that you have a Rafaela as injury insurance. This is why the Dodgers went out and traded for Rojas instead of immediately relying on Miguel Vargas, though Vargas clearly has the higher ceiling.
You’ve got to think about the roster in August, not just the roster in April. It’s smarter to stack the depth from the beginning than pay over-market prospect prices for rentals at the trade deadline. Duvall’s an extremely low-cost way to cultivate that depth while giving a struggling young player some time to figure his swing out. Hard for me to see why that wouldn’t be appealing!
Didn’t realize it had been so long since he’d played the corners, though. You’re right that he’s not a solution there.
Croc – Your comment on Rafaela is so off base it’s not funny!
If Rafaela goes to AAA and has less strikeouts does that mean when he comes up and faces guys like he did in the final two weeks of the season (the time you are basing your comment on because he had no K issues before that while hitting .364) he will suddenly be able to not strike out vs Glasnow, or Montgomery or Cole? I don’t think so. It will mean he doesn’t strike out against AAA pitchers!!!
Rafaela IS NOT A PROBLEM. He’s the best of the young outfielders who have played at the MLB level. The idiot, BRUIN1012, started this whole thing about Rafaela because he’s a huge Abreu fan. He failed to mention Abreu never faced the studs Rafaela faced. Abreu also didn’t hit lead off so there was very little pressure by comparison.
Stop wrongfully tainting Rafaela’s reputation.
To argue Duvall should start and Rafaela should be injury insurance is INSANE. Duvall is a streak hitter and he’s streaky bad more than streaky good. Rafaela isn’t an injury risk so you don’t need Duvall as an injury risk back-up to him so WE DON’T NEED DUVALL!!!! It’s that simple. We wasted a ton of money on Giolito, O’Neill and Grissom not to mention Devers, Story and Yoshi. Let’s stop doing dumb things and actually find players that fix HOLES!!!
crocus – Excellent post!
Last year was not as LH-heavy as they made it out to be.
Urias, Story, Wong, Duvall, Turner all righthanded batters.
Agreed but we need to cut off spending in Redsox Nation 100% in 2024. Enough is Enough. Our system is ready for a full go in 2025 and next winters FA signings depend on our collective BOYCOTT financially in 2024 by RSN
Yes but it’s Boycott time in RSNation for 2024.
BOYCOTT all things Red Sox
YES! This is the way Redsox Nation! A ZERO Spend 2024! Unfortunately it’s free box scores season until 2 Aces and a MONSTER Bat is signed. Think Burns, Fried & Soto or We won’t be returning…
I too am grateful for the four WS Championships but believe the Sox fate for the next ten years will be sunk by the rotting beached whale of Devers’ contract.
The thing is, this organization is rich enough to absorb that contract. Stanton’s is worse yet the yankees are still trying to be competitive.
grnmtn – I totally agree! Stanton is on the Yankee books for only $88M more, them eating $22M a year for 3 or 4 years shouldn’t be an issue.
Fever – The Stanton deal is nowhere near as bad as the Devers deal. I detailed it elsewhere in the responses.
Boston is severely screwed. Stanton’s contract started at an earlier age, he produced above Devers level for 5 years before the Yankees traded for him and he did well until his 32 year old season. So, they paid roughly the same per year for Stanton and got 3 good years and 2 bad years and have 2 years left. If Devers disappears at 32 like so many other big name hitters far better than him, he’ll have maybe 6 good years but his good years won’t match Stanton’s good years. He had 3 years better than Devers’ best year before he was traded to NY!!! Devers did not deserve anything close to $30MM per year. I was being generous and said $150 for 6 years. I believe that would have been an over pay too but we had already lost JD and Bogey. What they gave him was a F and a U to the Red Sox by Bloom.
TF – Are you talking about Stanton’s contract overall, or the amount the Yankees are responsible for paying?
And I am pretty sure John Henry had to sign off on that Devers extension. ;O)
The Red Sox had three players to worry about and botched all three. Betts was easily the best of what the Red Sox had, and we decided to not match the price it would take to retain him. A plus hitter, plus fielder, plus arm, plus power, and plus speed. The chances of obtaining comparable value for him in a trade was highly unlikely, but we somehow managed to get less back than any of us imagined. It is rare to see a blockbuster trade where nearly every evaluation immediately places it as either a pure salary dump, or one-sided deal. This is a rare trade that was considered a one-sided salary dump.
Bogaerts was a borderline keep for me imho. He is not a quality defensive shortstop, but reliable enough with a well above average bat for his position. If they would have paid him his original asking price towards an extension the contract would have been extremely palatable when looking at today’s contracts by comparison, especially the one he eventually obtained. The idea would be to move him to third or second as the contract aged with him, and you would still have above average production. Not getting any value for his loss and coupling the insult with staying above the cap to gain a lower draft pick was just icing on the crap cake we all ate. In hindsight, retaining him would have solved the second base black hole we are still experiencing after all these years with the Story/Bogaerts tandem. As his original asking price this was a keeper. After we botched it, it was a complete failure in every respect. We didn’t sign him, we didn’t trade him for prospects, and we didn’t get a decent draft compensation pick due to staying slightly above the cap inexplicably.
The least valuable player of the three was the player we retained to a massive contract. Devers is a DH we keep penciling in at third base despite the imminent harm it may cause fans around the league sitting behind first base. The kid can hit, but he simply is not the premier bat that warrants that contract as a one-dimensional player. The contract looks all the worse when you imagine that kind of contract handed to Betts towards an extension early on may have been enough to keep an MVP caliber player in a Red Sox uniform. Devers isn’t truly untradable, it would just require the Red Sox to eat a massive amount of the contract. Whenever you evaluate a large contract signing and contemplate what that players actual value truly is in a trade and have to eat the contract to make any deal it speaks volumes.
Baseballteam – COMMENT OF THE DAY!!! Thank you. Bloom hung a massive albatross around the neck of the GMs for the next decade and then either Cora or Breslow or Ownership decided to double down on the pain by playing him at 3B!!!
Wait. Are Red Sox fans upset with Devers and his contract already?
Swap for Rendon? Halo’s pay down 60% of Tony’s deal?
Lord – some sox fans didn’t want him extended at all and preferred other stars be retained instead, and, immediately after the deal was announced some fans also said it was a bad deal, overpay, misallocation of money, and albatross.
Lord – Since Day One it was viewed as a big overpay, but I was fine with it because of the assumption it wouldn’t impact other signings. If I had known they’d go full-blown Costanza with the team payroll, I’d have been a lot more unhappy about it.
But at that point, what can ya do? Xander, Nate, JD, Mookie, etc were already gone. Bloom backed himself into a corner. If he had kept Mookie or Xander, a trade of Devers would have been a lot more tolerable. Gotta have at least one bonafide star player on the team.
No but we do need a 2024 RSN Boycott unfortunately
The Red Sox lost more than they’ve gained and finished last, last year. What are they doing? Is Henry selling the team? Won’t spend money. You’d think they could afford an ace??? WTF
carksam – The finger needs to be pointed at Breslow just like it was at Bloom. Nothing suggests there is an issue with getting funding.
Troll: so you think that ownership would spend but Breslow won’t . Come on !!! Bloom was a joke too, I think he was brought in to save $ and try and be competitive. Obviously he failed . Where a you getting the Mookie trade because of the Eck/ Price situation. I am curious on that . Ownership changes Yawkey way name . What was it two years ago their big news was they hired the first black female as a minor league coach .
RSN needs a 2024 financial boycott in all areas is all. Or we will get this garbage annually
guru – If only fans would unite to do just that …. but it won’t happen, there’s always casuals who will want to take in Fenway when they are in Boston. The owners can always lean on Fenway to a certain degree.
Relax. Jesus. Sox are short a bonafide number 1 and possibly a power RH bat. Great nucleus with a loaded farm. Also s GREAT bullpen
Rick – I think you’re right with the fact that a Monty and Soler addition definitely make this team competitive. However, I think the fan base has been pushed back to not expect that. That along with the recent bottom dwelling after being surpassed by the O’s adds fuel to the fire.
NY – Well said! Yes the Red Sox have been sending a very different message the past month than they sent earlier in the offseason. It’s looking more and more like another last place finish, unless Tampa implodes.
I’m with you, Rick! In 1-2 years, the Sox have the potential to be great. But the roster as it stands right now is not nearly up to par in a competitive division unless, like, Kutter Crawford miraculously transforms into an ace.
I’m not sure how other fans feel, but for me personally, this offseason is only frustrating because ownership postured like they were going to go out and build a championship club. If they’d been honest about their willingness to play the long game, I’d approve of most of Breslow’s moves.
At no point do i want to overpay for mediocrity or a bloated contract that will tie us down the road. Id scream if we signed Ohtani or yamamoto. Those contracts never pan out and prevent us from signing someone else
Rick – You said the same thing about the Manny, Pedro and Damon contracts. How did those work out for ya?
RickEO = You might want to see an eye doctor!!! WOW
They have NO SP1 or SP2
They have NO 3B
They have 2 DHs
They have NO SS that can hit
They have 6 SP3 to SP5 guys. 5 is too many.
They have an expensive OF who hasn’t hit in 3 years
They have an expensive SP3/4/5 that hasn’t pitched well in 3 years
They have an expensive closer despite being uncompetitive
They have an expensive set up man despite being uncompetitive
They have a manager who is a convicted cheater and an alleged cheater
They have a rookie GM
They have an Ownership group who seems to be absent from caring
The nucleus you speak of is either playing out of position, being replaced by players being added by Breslow or going to be mishandled by a know nothing manager who makes dozens of mistakes daily.
That’s me relaxed. You should see when I get worked up!!
Troll – If you look at a team like ARI who made the WS with Gallen being the only top of rotation arm, it is doable. If we signed Monty to lead us and hope for Bello, Pivetta, or Giolito to become a 2 or 3 under Breslow and Bailey’s guidance it’s not unreasonable to think we can pull it off. On offense if we sign a RH bat like Duvall or Soler to go along with Devers, Yoshida, Casas, Duran, Grissom, O’Neil, and Story (hopefully) there’s upside. Not saying this team is built on paper to beat the Dodgers or the stacked ALE but the game isn’t won on paper. I like to think it isn’t as much of a dire situation Sox fans make it out to be. A lot has to go our way but the young guys also coming through the pipeline give reason for optimism if all else fails.
NYSF— I think this team has a reasonably high ceiling but a very low floor. Like, I’d believe anywhere between 70 and 90 wins as a reasonable prediction for the group we currently have. I think the concerns Troll’s expressed (and that I would echo) are more about raising the floor than they are about raising the ceiling. There’s plenty of talent, but there’s also a lot of redundancy, while other areas of the roster are basically a skeleton crew.
Sure, maybe Story and O’Neill have bounce-back years, Bello and Crawford graduate to bona fide rotation regulars, and Jarren Duran hits .325. But it’s also completely feasible to imagine a world where Giolito, Devers, and Casas all hurt themselves in April, Abreu, Duran, and Rafaela take big steps back, and Story turns out to be exactly what we’ve seen from him since he signed with us. Suddenly you’re running out a lineup that looks a little bit like the White Sox or the Rockies.
At this point, I’m about stability and depth. But I agree with you that there’s talent to work with!
Doubtful in our division with a negative run differential
Funny how Trollfree says the poster needs an eye doctor but doesn’t address his post any other way. He simply just stuffs his own agenda of “firing Cora” and expects us all to believe it’s like one of the Ten Commandments
NYSF – Lets discuss the concept of rationalization.
If a and b and c happens and somebody waves a magic wand the Red Sox could be good.
Arizona had good pitching and Boston won’t get Monty so your entire scenario is a gross exaggeration.
Boston needs TWO guys better than Monty.
Boston needs a 3B like Chapman.
Boston needs 2 lefty relievers to get out lefties after the 7th
Boston needs to trade Yoshi since Devers must be the DH
Boston needs to fire Cora so the talent can be maximized
Boston DOES NOT need a right handed bat if they trade Yoshi and get a REAL 3B that is a power hitting right handed bat. Wasting money on guys like Soler and Duvall is very small minded. It’s Bloom-like thinking.
Build the future NOW. Here is the future:
C – Teel when he’s ready
1B – Casas
2B – Grissom
SS – Story (Unless we can unload his contract)
3B – TBD
LF – Anthony
CF – Duran
RF – Rafaela
DH – Devers
FOUR subs make 13 hitters
C – Wong
MI – TBD (maybe Valdez)
CI – TBD (maybe Dalbec)
OF – Abreu
SP1 – TBD
SP2 – TBD
SP3 – Bello
SP4 – Giolito (Only because we over paid for him)
SP5 – Houck, Crawford, Pivetta, Whitlock
Righty late inning guys = Martin and Winckowski
Lefty late inning guys – TBD and TBD
Closer – Jansen
13 pitchers 5 late inning guys and 8 starters and long relievers so the guys listed above make up the 13 pitchers on the 26 man roster.
The idea should be to fill holes not add guys with questionable skills for big money that force future players back down to AAA.
We want to fix what’s broken not keep applying band-aids like Bloom tried to do. Duvall, O’Neill, Giolito and Soler would all be band-aids not solutions.
TF – Hoskins to back up devers/casas and at least improve the defense somewhat, while being a rh power bat.
There’s both IF depth, your potential 3B, and RH power
Dam just jumped in my bunker. Sox win 87games next year. Bank on it. I told everyone they would win ws in 18. Gotta believe
TF – Forget worked up, I want to see you when you drink!!!
Fever, then let’s keep.stirring the pot…
So, Story held a mini-camp for younger sox infielders to help hone their craft, be ready to co tribute to the MLB team. Great idea, right?
Whelp, Casas attended. So did Yorke and Hamilton. Even Grissom, brand new to the team, was in attendance. Rafaela wasn’t, which is excusable being from Curaco, and Devers wasn’t, being from the Dominican Rep… so, you know, visa issues and what not. A-O-K.
Do you know who blew it off and didn’t attend?
Mayer.
Thoughts anyone? I agree with reporting, it’s a big red flag to me.
overthemonster.com/platform/amp/2024/1/16/24039247…
I don’t see much into it. Let the season play out and see how the Marcelo does first. I think people are just pointing fingers to point fingers at this point.
It’s been reported by several people by now that Mayer was planning to attend but the Red Sox held him out. Mayer didn’t blow it off. This is a complete nothing story.
Exactly. People are just pointing fingers now
What incentive would the red sox have to hold him out?
the ‘shoulder’ STILL is bad after ALL THIS TIME????
THAT is equally a BIG red flag.
You can all caps your statements but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re reading way too much into this.. The sox wanted him to continue his PT . It’s nothing more than that. He’s also participating fully in the rookie camp in Boston this week. Furthermore it’s been reported that He’ll be a full go at spring training and is already swinging the bat.
Literally a nothing story.
acell10 – Maybe you aren’t reading enough into it!!! There are other valid opinions other than yours.
What do we actually know?
1 – He was invited
2 – He didn’t attend
Any other facts? I haven’t read any.
Mayer has been under performing in the minors for a four pick in the draft. Maybe he doesn’t want to damage his trade value for the team. That would be very selfless of him and I would respect that. Or, he’s not wanting to have public workouts until he’s 100% which is what GA is suggesting.
That is a red flag but since he’s not done well anyway it’s not that big of a deal. We need for him to turn into a stud but it seems unlikely at this point so the next best thing is that he is healthy and some day soon can replace Story who still can’t hit after 2 years.
If it’s a fallout among team mates that would be an issue too but can be easily overcome. If he really wanted to be there but the trainers said no, then there is no clubhouse issue just a concern for the health of the player.
It’s a topic worth discussing because this guy was the fourth pick in the draft, didn’t live up to the hype then got hurt and now needs to re-establish himself as a stud who got drafted 4th in the draft. If he’s still hurt, fans need to know that unless Breslow is packaging him in a deal in which case we should drop the topic until the trade completes.
Sure all true, 2 Aces are needed, and a monster Bat, Burns Fried Soto…I won’t spend a dime in 2024 until they get serious. RSN needs to send this message in 2024 or it would be the new normal…that can’t happen.
baseballguru – I love the way you think. The ownership needs Red Sox Nation to keep them honest. I do my part every year by providing feedback on facts that show we are doing it wrong. I boycotted all merchandise the day Mookie was given away with Price. I doubled down when Cora got his job back because I know my father would be rolling over in his grave to know a scumbag like Cora got the Boston Red Sox manager job after betraying all the players who came before him with his actions in Houston and Boston.
Keep up the protesting. Lets keep raising the volume!!
The pen is fine, but only as good as what doesn’t get poached out of it to fill out a rotation. If zero relievers start games, it should be fine. Every reliever that starts games instead will be replaced by bad pitchers in the pen. We all know this, because we have nothing to replace them with from within the organization, and we have done nothing to bring any talent in. We haven’t had a quality lefty in the pen since 2013 for Christ’s sake.
We are not getting a number 1, 2, or 3 for that matter. The rotation may be worse than last year as we currently stand. What is this right-handed power bat? Where is this player playing? Outfield? We have 5 at the moment, and there aren’t any players available that aren’t considered anything other than fielding liabilities in center or right. Not third, because we are going to play out another year with Devers at third. Not second base, because they are hoping for the new guy to win that job and are hoping Rafaela may be a backup option either there or the outfield.
I like your optimism, but we are several player upgrades away from contention.
Do you think if Devers was traded to the Rangers he’d go by Ted Devers? Also, would he become an accessory to the zodiac killer murders?
I like Duvall and I hope they sign him but nothing is making sense with this organization. Since when does the last two GM’S hired by the team had know say about the manager or any scouting department changes. I just noticed that they did not sign any international players. The organization is not showing any direction and they are afraid to make any judgements on their minor league talent in which turns into more duds than actual productive mlb players! This organization is a mess.
@Thec’s: They made several international signings Monday. Vladimir Asencio highlighted the bunch.
Thec – I think they got the 33rd best international player. 30 teams and we get the 33rd best. Seems right.
If we didn’t have Rafaela, Duran and Abreu plus O’Neill I wouldn’t be so against Duvall. He takes time from the young group which is our future. Also, Anthony is on his way so OF is NOT a spot we need help.
It’s the same list from NOV with a couple of exceptions:
1 – DEVERS to DH
2 – FIRE CORA
3 – A SP1 and SP2
4 – An all-star quality 3B
5 – A 2B ( DONE – Grissom)
6 – Trade Verdugo and Yoshida ( 1/2 done)
7 – TWO lefty late inning guys
I am with you on everything except Duvall. I want to see Rafaela, Duran, Abreu and Anthony develop and O’Neill is already going to cut into their development.
Thec – Great post, but one thing …. they are in the process of signing Vlad Asencio, the #33 international prospect.
Yeah not one of the best, but he still counts as an international signing.
Just withdrawal RSN financial support in 2024 is all…box scores until they spend on 2 Aces and a monster Bat. Simple really
I like the honest remarks. This is true for any team that is experiencing success. Breslow was brought in to finish what Bloom started with a better eye for how to improve pitching.
I don’t understand all the hate on these boards though. You all understand it’s a game right?
That is all true but a clear financial message needs to be sent by RSN in 2024 to a zero spend season by us in 2024, check the box scores for free, sped more time with family, boating, fishing, hunting, camping, traveling…whatever else in 2024.
Teddy – If you think Bloom did anything other than tear down the Red Sox then I don’t think we are on the same planet. Bloom was completely destructive. He did NOTHING to improve the Red Sox.
To suggest Breslow was brought in to finish what Bloom started that would mean bankrupt the organization, get the first pick in the 2025 draft and create even more animosity in the fan base. Those are the only progressions from what Bloom did and they are not related to pitching.
Breslow might improve the pitching but who cares if the team finishes last every year? That’s not a fix that is a waste of time just like Bloom was.
It’s a game true. Do you understand that it’s normal to try to win a game? So when the player isn’t trying to win the game the others watching the game rooting for him might get mad?
Floundering for no reason is inexcusable. This organization performed well for roughly 20 years after floundering for 100. Now they are back to floundering and for those of us old enough to remember the initial floundering, we are extremely angry because baseball is a way of life not just a game. If you don’t have the passion for the game don’t criticize others that do have passion for the Boston Red Sox.
I criticize the time wasted on spouting the same message of doom and gloom.
Bloom was responsible for rebuilding a minor league system that was ranked last in the league before he got here.
Name a single team that is currently having success that isn’t due to the development of their own players.
Bloom’s biggest problem was his inability to move on from veteran players when needed. He was frozen by indecision every year and it resulted in mediocrity or worse.
Teddy – Lets not let facts get in the way when providing opinions. Boston was 21st when Bloom arrived and thanks to his horrendous 2020 season he selected the 4th player in the draft and the farm system suddenly rose to 9th. That speaks volumes about what’s wrong with farm system rankings because our future didn’t improve that much from a HS SS. Farm system are incorrectly valued by guesses of their future rather than their actual production. When a farm system produces a Mookie, Benhy, Bogaerts, Devers it should be applauded not criticized because those player graduated. Much like the farm system under DD producing Houck, Bello, Crawford, Casas, Duran and Rafaela should be applauded. Guys like Mayer, Yorke and the other Bloom picks haven’t performed up to their location in the draft except for Anthony. So how did Bloom improve the farm system? By tanking the MLB team so better picks could be made? Is that a successful approach to the farm system?
The Dodgers have Freidman telling ranking companies what great prospects he has so he can deal them to unsuspecting bafoons like Bloom. Is that a team you think has a strong farm system? If so did they produce the equivalent of Mookie, Bogey, Benny, Devers, Houck, Bello, Crawford, Rafaela and JBJ in the last 10 years or recently? NOPE. They just market their farm system to be great with a bunch of pretenders like Jeter Downs, Verdugo and Wong or some of their more recent pretenders who are being moved right now like Michael Busch and Yency Almonte. They are over rated prospects (aka pretender prospects) who Friedman pumps up in value through connections with the rafting services and then deals to unsuspecting teams like the Cubs. It’s a sham as is the whole prospect rating system.
Your comments about Bloom are such a massive misinterpretation of what he was. He was destructive and not frozen in fear. He intentionally tanked the Red Sox because he wanted to prove his way was better than DD’s way. He failed miserably because DD understood how to build a team quickly and have it be sustainable. The very words Bloom uttered when he lied about what he could do for Boston.
You can’t sustain winning until you actually win which he didn’t. Bloom had a plan and when it didn’t work he didn’t burn it up or throw it away he selfishly kept trying to make it work and dug himself a deeper and deeper hole. He discarded 5 all-stars in four years and added Jansen as his only all-star and Jansen isn’t of much value on a .500 team.
I started spouting doom and gloom messages in February 2020 and was right but nobody listened or agreed until the situation was so bad you would have to be a moron to disagree. I didn’t shout out the doom and gloom for me, I did it in hopes of stopping it. The longer the skid the longer the recovery.
It’s completely fair for fans to be screaming doom and gloom because the team is the worst since the 60s. The lone true all-star is a guy who can’t field, is making 50% more than his worth and won’t move off a position he’s proven he can’t play for the last 7 seasons. We have the only CONVICTED once and tried twice cheating coach in baseball. He’s finished last in 2023, 2022 and 2nd in the lucky 2021 season. His record since being rehired is 248-238 or 10 games over .500 for 3 seasons. He’s failed and cheated but still represents the organization which is a travesty to Red Sox Baseball fans. If coached Little League I wouldn’t let my child play for him. A man with no integrity is not who I think should manage any team.
So to recap, you farm system speech was BS, You comment about us not developing our own players was BS. And you comments on what Bloom did was BS.
Basically, your entire comment was BS. It was FACTLESS.
Don’t advise other fans they are wrong for complaining when you don’t even see or comprehend the issues.
Troll is right. Yeesh!
I’ll take the advice of a message board troll over professionals because he says I should.
Houck, Bello, Crawford, Casas, Duran and Rafaela have only started finding success since Bloom was running the show. You talk about giving credit for development not drafting and then use examples that are completely contradictory.
Feel free to overreact and rant on every post about how right you are. I just feel bad for someone who is obviously so upset about a game.
Ted – Venting is therapeutic.
It also sends a message to Sox management.
That I can certainly relate to and understand.
I think the statements highlighted in this article indicate that they are finally getting the message. I still dislike the whole narrative that Breslow doesn’t have a spending cap when he obviously does. I’m sure if he was given a blank check we’d be celebrating the Yamamoto and Ohtani signings.
They are correct in saying that a young core needs to be developed in order for this team to be a contender. No team out there is building a winner through free agency.
What are we doing. raise the white flag and have ownership sell the team
RSN just needs to pull back any and all our investments in the club in any way in 2024.
There is discontent with mere tinkering or leaving things to chance….that is, to leave it to Tinkers…to Devers…to Chance ?
Boycott seems to be where we RSN fans are at…I don’t think they think WE will do that…lol…I don’t think they truly know WHO they’re dealing with as a fanbase? Lol they’re going to find out when the home opener is empty and mlb ticket subscribers are gone and no merchandise is sold. Oh well…
At this point Duvall would be better than nothing
If he even plays. Guy was injured so much. And he’s streaky. Basically had a monster April then coasted the rest of the year
Yup but I will follow from the free box scores. No spend for RSN in 2024
Have you ever heard the story of Harry Frazee? That owner who use the profit of the Red Sox to other businesses like a Broadway musical, and because he was so focus on that he sold the “Sultan of the Swat” in 1919 to accomplish his dream of “No, No, Nanette.” well a curse born! Now John W. Henry investing the profit of the Red Sox on other types of “No, No, Nanette” like the Liverpool soccer club,RFK Racing team and other Stuff can brings us another curse? Hope not but definitely I prefer he sold the team before that and believe me after his 2019 Liverpool championship what became of our beloved Red Sox?
Plus hockey…just withdrawal your investment monetarily in 2024 100%…RSN can demonstrate their passion in this way best. Until they sign 2 Aces and a superstar bat (Think Burns, Fried, & Soto ALL 3, we should withdrawal support.
This is going to turn into a bridge decade isn’t it? They’re wasting Devers’ prime years.
Try being a Trout fan.
EXACTLY 100%! We just need to pull back our RSN financial support in 2024 until further notice…
MKit – Wasting Devers’ prime years? Prime what? We traded away Mookie and JD so we are wasting their years with a putz like Devers butchering balls at 3B. Devers decade will be 6 years max and then crap just like guys like Miggy, Pujols and even Stanton. Once these guys hit 32 their skills are gone and they are league average at best. Devers isn’t as good as the guys I mentioned so 32 may be stretch. He may become league average by 30. His body type, lack of baseball acumen and his emotional immaturity should do him in much faster than the great Miggy or Pujols.
Enough already!!! Fire McCarthy and hire Belichick!!!!! Oh my bad wrong forum….. anyone sign Brasier yet???
oimtiant – In Dallas the question is Harbaugh or Belichick. The Cowboys could be really great with either so it probably won’t happen!!
Exactly…. NeXT Cowboys coach!!! BRASIER!!!! Can see him with head set and head tilted now!!!!
I don’t mind frugality but this frugal? If you can’t fill basic spots and can’t pony up money for players who aren’t really that expensive, or can’t trade our prospects, how do you expect to run a decent team? Something HAS to get done.
Just withdrawal our RSN spend to zero. That will fix their methods PDQ.
Lol! Only Sox fans would call for their new GM to be fired three months into the offseason. Which, honestly, really doesn’t start until the winter meetings, so more like two. And outside of maybe 4-5 players, this is a pretty awful FA class. Still time, everyone! Trades and a big bat remain!
Oh I’ll check box scores in 2024 but spending?…NO CHANCE! Need to send a message from the collective Redsox Nation here at this point.
Holden – This was the largest pool of quality free agent pitchers in MLB history.
There’s no excuse for missing out on all the good ones, unless the Sox are saving their money for Snell or Montgomery … but I’m not very optimistic at this point.
2014-2015 would like to have a word with you, Fever. Scherzer, Lester, Peavy, Shields, McCarthy, Santana, Liriano, just to name a few.
I agree that the Sox have no excuse, but one point I made is that they are still out there. Even the best available via trade (Cease and Beiber) still haven’t found new homes. And of the 4-5 great players initially available, four were pitchers, and two remain. IF the offseason ended today, ownership is the problem, not the new GM, because it shows that it doesn’t matter who they hire as a GM: the owners are only watching their wallets.
Self-inflicted wounds – the Sox deserve their present fate. Inexplicably remodelling a juggernaut after that dog-and-pony show in Tampa (how many rings have the Rays?) is a stunningly stupid directive. The Sox have earned their present misery.
Just not spending as a fan in 2024. This is simple.
Last world series ring 20th century 1918 Team trades Babe Ruth
Last world series ring 21st century 2018 Team trades Mookie Betts
see you guys in 2104 when you comeback from 3-0 to beat the Yankees again.
That soon??? Fair enough…
Yes I am withdrawaling my financial support in 24 100%. RSN needs to send this message loudly in the wallets of ownership.
Yankee – Three rings in the 90s, 2 rings in the 2000s, NO RINGS in the 2010s. Hmmmm can you get -2 rings in the 2020s?
I really dont know, can’t say the odds are in our favor, I mean those Dodgers have to be the overwhelming favorites to go on a dynasty run.. no?!
Yankee – Not going to happen. Dodgers are pretenders. They have no better idea of how to win than you guys. Look to Texas, Houston, Atlanta and who knows maybe Baltimore, the Cubs or SF for long shot winners.
LA will be in the playoffs for the next 10 years. The over under is 1 ring. I’m taking the under.
let me ask you something, straight up honest answer, if the Red Sox had the Dodger roster would you call your team pretenders?
Me, I would feel mighty good about my chances if my team had that roster and it is only going to get better when Ohtani can pitch again.
Yankees – That Dodgers roster is absolutely loaded, would be a great WS if they could somehow play the 2018 Red Sox.
Yankee – Yes. Because I knew they cared more about participation trophies than winning rings. Some teams have what it takes to win and others don’t. Some times it has everything to do with the players and some times it has to do with the managers and coaches and sometimes it has to do with the front office and ownership.
In NY, your problem is Cashman and Boone. I watched Girardi win when he had a crap team in Jeters’ last few years and I was impressed. Boone is nearly as bad as Cora.
In LAD the problem is Friedman and Roberts. Roberts is nearly as bad at managing as Cora and Boone. Wrong choices all the time. The greater the pressure the more he chokes. I think LAD has two big issues in 2024. Health and pitching. The top of the order will score runs but I don’t think their pitching will hold up because Yamamoto is going to be surprised how much better the hitting in the MLB is compared to Japan. I think the young SPs that did well last year will take a step backwards. They have great depth but not quality depth so they will win the division and lose in a short series as always.
Boston had a juggernaut in 2018 when DD was GM. The Achilles heal was Cora and still is. I get beat up by my comments about how bad the team will be because I figure each year Cora will cost them a dozen wins or more. He did in 2018 when they won 108!!! He’s done it ever since. Wrong line-ups, wrong substitutions, wrong pitching match-ups and wrong in game strategy. He is clueless how to be a Manager. His peak job in baseball should have been bench coach because he’s a coddler not a manager..
Fever – Gross exaggeration of the LAD roster. They have a key ingredient to success in their first three hitters are elite like the great Boston teams but the rest of the line-up has no guarantees in it. The pitching is incredibly suspect since we have no idea how Yamamoto will adjust to pitching in the MLB and living in the US. The bottom of their rotation is no better than Boston’s. It’s all young guys who had good years last year that could very easily bounce and have off seasons.
For whatever it means, Duvall feel like a Red Sox player. He still fits there. Also what’s up with the staying in contact stuff? Like “hey buddy, we want you back, but first we’ll try somebody better, cool? Let you know!”
Sign Duvall. Yoshida goes to DH so he can play left. O’Neil has cf on lock. Either sign Soler for RF or make a trade. Then go sign Montgomery
This fixes the Red Sox
Dude read the report again…lol it’s not happening. Time to withdraw our support financially. I’m not spending a nickle in 24.
Guru – What else is not gonna happen is O’Neill replacing Duran in CF.
It’s obvious the Owner is done spending big on multiple players who are stars. It’s his team. His money. We as fans need to be aware and discern the bullcrap from reality. This team is mediocre again. There is not enough pitching.
Yup, I will withdrawal my financial support 100% until they get real.
Maybe Duvall, slim chance of Monty, slim chance of trade for young pitcher otherwise it’s mostly development. No reason to follow along at this point for Redsox Nation, check box scores for free, no streaming subscriptions, no merchandise, no going to Fenway, we’re interested in all those, but right now just front runners to buy, we’re tied to a possible full throttle investment but will need to see 2 Aces and a monster Bat before returning to support the club at this point. 2025 maybe they spend?… if they don’t get the message from REDSOX NATION who WILL clearly, unquestionably, definitively send them this year in 2024 it will invite changing allegiances to some other club. I would advise all investment media and TV company contracts to back away from signing, as they won’t have Redsox Nation on board from this point until further notice. Cheers to those who are serious teams in MLB, good luck to them, congratulations on having Owners with Pride and a competitive spirit! As it should be!
And just what are “investment media and TV company contracts”? Suggest you spend less time replying and more time in the real world.
PK – Why so harsh. A disgruntled fan not happy with the home ball club that makes hundreds of millions of dollars and can’t find a HR department worth hiring. The history of mistakes is primarily focused on the HR department allowing a resume by Cora to make it to the ownership group. Or Blooms or Breslow’s
Why can’t the HR group actually find valid candidates for hire? To hell with the diversity crap, lets use the novel idea of best candidate wins not best connected. Cora is better suited as a hot dog vendor than a manager. Bloom liked to write books on how to develop farm systems but couldn’t do it using his own book. Breslow might have memorized the periodic table but he can’t seem to win at the bargaining table. Is he qualified.? Only on paper. The HR department needs to weed these folks out!! Why aren’t there more DDs in the world. Guys who come in and change the success of a team in a few years. Texas found Chris Young who replicated the DD model and won. Why can’t our HR department find one of those guys instead of these OXFORD nerds who probably rowed in college or played chess not baseball.
A good rant doesn’t have to always be precise. I like that fans are ranting because after four years I finally have company!!
I’m glad I didn’t sign up for MLB or arrange for any trips this year to see the Sox
So, they’ll be picking up OF Oscar Gonzalez off waivers this week?
It’s becoming obvious that a trade with Miami needs to happen. Forget any success in 2024. Mayer, Teel, and Yorke for the best pitching prospect package possible. Maybe snag De la Cruz in the process.
Sean – I’m missing the obvious. If we have holes at SP1 and SP2, 3B, Lefty set-up men and we need to deal Yoshi why would using our stock of available prospects on other prospects fit that need? You are suggesting a Bloom-like action. Prolong the winning until farther into the future.
I think most fans want the opposite. Bloom tore down Rome in 4 seasons. Breslow has the money, the prospects and Yoshi to rebuild Rome in a season but he needs to start doing his job rather than fiddling on the roof and not addressing the needs.
TF – Speaking of Sean, did you hear Sean McDonough was fired again for blasting the Mookie trade while on air. Good for him! He will never have a problem finding work.
I love the Red Sox and always will…….. With that said the Boycott you all talk about should be about moving on from the Integrity-less Manager of the team. I can deal with the team being in the “reset” mode and I am looking forward to the Core of youth that is coming to the majors over next 2 years. Of course I want them to compete year in and year out, but I am not a WS or bust person. I just want to see progress, but what I can’t stand is the team I love being Managed by a sleazy piece of Doggie doo.
Cooper – 100% AGREE!!!!
Step one – REMOVE CORA then MOVE DEVERS TO DH
and use anyone including Rafaela at 3B until they can get a full-time right handed hitting good defender at 3B who has power.
I want RS Nation to get behind the OUST CORA MOVEMENT!!!
TF – I thought you liked Cora now because he helped get rid of Bloom? Remember “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”? Haha!!
Fever – Cora is despicable as a manager and a human being.
I preferred Bloom the person to Cora the person. Both were horrible at their jobs and needed to go. Cora being fired would improve wins by 10 to 12 games. That is something they desperately need based on projected wins right now.
Human being might be a bit much
Fever – Just watched an MLB segment where all three hosts kept going on about TOR wanting to do a big deal.
I say trade Devers to TOR as a salary dump for Ricky Tiedemann LEFTY SP and Damiano Palmegiani 3B. NO BUY DOWN!!!!
It’s just like signing a free agent except you give up a top prospect in addition to give Boston value in the deal. It’s a known all-star for a prospect SP and a low level prospect 3B since Boston lacks 3Bs in the minors.
It’s not as good as trading for Arenado but it gives Breslow $30MM more to get two SPs AND it gives SPs motivation to come to Boston without Devers at 3B!!
TF – They already have Vladdy locked into first base … although he is defensively one of the worst there in MLB.
Fever – TOR is looking for a DH but they have Espinal at 3B so they could play Devers at 3B if they are idiots or put him at DH. What does Vlad have to do with Devers playing 3B or DH?
TF – You think the Jays are crazy enough to play Devers at third base? He’s AWFUL there! If the Jays got him, they would move him to first base … but not as long as Vladdy is there, that’s why I mentioned Vladdy :O)
Fever – They would make him the DH. Guerrero is a far better fielder than Devers so he stays at 1B.
Think about a line-up with Bichette, Devers and Guerrero. That would make them much stronger for several years at a steep cost. That’s what they are looking for so if Breslow can stop futzing with little crap maybe he could invest a minute or two divesting the team of their worst contract.
Tiedemann is a very nice Lefty SP who could be in the rotation by 2024 AND he could be an evantual top of the rotation guy. Both teams win with this deal. Breslow can stop crying about money if he gets $30MM a year for a decade back in his coffers.
TF – Devers would be good at first base if he didn’t have to throw …. or catch …. or move.
He’s good at talking with the baserunners.
Seems like Breslow wants credit for developing players and doesn’t want free agents. The two best teams in MLB right now at developing talent are Baltimore and Tampa. The Dodgers, Yankees, and Mets seem to be willing to just buy the World Series. The issue here is fans are used to Boston buying the World Series but management has not hired the operations guys interested in doing that. They hired development guys, and the fans want a Dave Dombrowski guy willing to spend.
kingburn – You don’t get roster construction. No team builds only from within unless they are poor. No team buys every player either even if they are LAD, NNY or NYM. It’s always a combination of home grown and FAs.
If you care about the CAP and all but 3 or 4 do, you balance cheap vs expensive players throughout your pitching and hitting. Typically, you read your home grown players that are good enough to start and fill around them. In Boston now that Bloom destroyed the roster we have ONE guy who is a worthy keeper veteran and he plays DH but thinks he’s a 3B.
Start with a veteran DH and then add the quality farm players. You have both Abreu and Anthony as future left fielders, you have Duran as the future CF and you have Rafaela as the future RF. You have Grissom as the future 2B and Casas as the future 1B and Teel as the future catcher.
That leaves Story at SS who is paid too much and likely can’t be dumped so you either eat his contract and play Rafaela there or trade/FA a future SS. Mayer could be that guy but he’ll need to improve to be considered the SS of the future. That leaves 3B. The team needs a Chapman or to trade for a big time 3B who can field and hit. THAT is what Breslow should be seeking right now along with 2 SP1s.
On the pitching side, we have 5 decent SP3 to SP5 type pitchers in Bello, Houck Crawford, Pivetta and Whitlock. Breslow chose to add another in Giolito so now we have 6. We need 4 and we have 6. That was wasted money on Giolito unless he can become a SP2.
We have Jansen, Martin and WInckowski for closer and righty late inning guys but we have no quality lefty late inning guys. We need 2.
Breslow’s to do list is short but he continues to avoid filling the needs:
1 – 3B
2 – 2 SP1 pitchers
3 – 2 Lefty relievers
So here is the balancing act:
C – Homegrown – Cheap
1B – Homegrown – Cheap
2B – Homegrown – Cheap except for one time cost of $17MM
SS – EXPENSIVE bad FA contract for Story with Mayer hopefully soon
3B – TBD – 2nd biggest need
LF – Homegrown – Cheap but O’Neill isn’t chap and wasn’t needed
CF – Homegrown – Cheap
RF – Homegrown – Cheap
DH – OVER THE TOP EXPENSIVE = Paid 50% over market for a decade
SP1 – TBD = EXPENSIVE
SP2 – TBD – EXPENSIVE
SP3 – Bello – Homegrown – Cheap
SP4 – Giolito – INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE UNLESS he proves to be a SP2
SP5 – Houck, Crawford, Pivetta or Whitlock – All cheap except Whitlock
Righty Relievers = Winckowski cheap and Martin semi-expensive
Lefty Relievers – TBD – Suggest one expensive and one semi-expensive
Closer – Jansen – Expensive
So Breslow has SO MUCH home grown talent he only needs a FEW very expensive players to round out the roster.
GO GET
2 EXPENSIVE SP1 type pitchers
1 EXPENSIVE 3B who can field and hit for power
2 Lefty relievers ONE expensive one not so expensive but effective
That’s all he needs and he has Yoshi to deal to clear $18MM of redundant money that is being wasted. With Yoshi’s money Breslow will have $79MM to get the 5 pieces that are missing. He also has redundant or under performing Prospects to trade for missing pieces.
SUGGESTIONS – FA
Sign Hader to 4 years so when Kenley is gone after 2024 we are still set
Sign Snell to 5 years $150MM
TRADE
1 – Devers to Toronto for Tiedemann to take the noose off the GMs neck
2 – Yoshi and Mayer and other prospects for Burnes and Adames and then extend both of them with the money available
3 – Jansen to Texas for Leiter and Rocker or Porter
The balance between expensive and home grown inexpensive is key to a productive yet within budget roster. Breslow seems to be flailing in his attempt to fill out the roster. He’s got the money and prospects to turn the club around quickly but apparently not the brains or balls.
They are not going to get sign anyone else unless it’s Clevinger. I quit being a Red Sox fan after 40 plus years when they felled to sign Betts and Boggarts . What kind of message does that give free agents and or young talent on our current roster. They are not going to pay you here in Boston. My best guess is Henry has won enough here. The best case senario for you Red Sox fans would be for Henry to sell the team. The Gm’s mean zilch
Henry isn’t telling the GMs no, that’s why you have the “Full Throttle” comments from Tom Werner. Bloom and Breslow are doing this on their own. At worst Henry is distracted with everything he owns to pay close attention to day to day operations. The money is there if Breslow chooses to use it.
King – So what you’re saying is the conversation between Henry and Breslow last November went like this:
Henry: “I’m embarrassed by how the team has performed the past few years, I want you to get us in the playoffs next season. Use as much of my money as you want.”
Breslow: “Screw you, I’m gonna take my time building a pipeline of prospects and I refuse to spend your money on free agents. You need the money, you don’t have enough..”
Yeah for some reason I don’t think that’s how it went down ….
I think it went something like this.
Henry- “I’m embarrassed the Sox played so poorly the last two years. I need to give the appearance that I have the money to spend, even though my other investments crushed me during the pandemic. Scour the waiver wire looking for pickups on a bounce back trajectory.”
Breslow. “Hell, yeah. I need the job.”
Fever – If this really is Fever based on your recent comments.
Breslow was hired to build a winner. If you want to give us that Bloom crap about Breslow nobody is buying it. When ownership publicly says there is no bottleneck for giving the GM money it’s the GM not asking for money everything that happened so far makes sense. Bloom and Breslow are bad GMs who can’t build a winner. They futz with BS that is insignificant.
Remember how Bloom wanted guys like Perez to prove he can find hidden gems? What do you call signing Giolito and O’Neill for more than market value? It’s Breslow’s chance to be a hero and find a hidden gem. These guys are all ego and don’t focus on winning. We were spoiled with DD and we need a guy like him now not a second Bloom.
Breslow just got the public ok to go get Snell or just about anybody he wants and what’s Breslow’s reaction? Silence and no movement.
Ghost – Interesting take. Think about the annual profits and think about what it means to spend the CAP to the Red Sox ownership. Assuming they spend the CAP and the team still sucks they simply make less money. If the team improves then they might break even and if they win a playoff game or two they make more than they would have.
There is plenty of money in Boston and no owner is denying the GM money. So Breslow is now clearly on the hot seat. Ownership should have done this with Bloom in year 1 because we might still have Bogey, JD and Nate.
Ownership has stopped taking the heat for Breslow and Bloom’s ineptitude at being GMs. The weight of the future is solely on Breslow’s shoulders now. Lets hope he doesn’t pull a Bloom and sign a ridiculous contract like Devers, or Yoshida’s or Story’s. Wait he’s already done that with his O’Neill, Giolito and Grissom deals.
So got over pay for Burnes and Snell and Chapman and put the ball back in the owners court already!!!
Not exactly….I think Henry said something like, “Craig, you can go over the threshold this year for the right signing. Do not put us in salary cap hell over paying for mid-tier talent even though they might be top of the line available right now.”
I don’t think outside of Yamamoto Breslow found anyone worth spending on, at least in his eyes. He thinks he can find production without overspending on it.
kingburn – That’s sounds eerily similar to Bloom. I sure hope that is not the case but there is no way to tell since he doesn’t make moves and doesn’t explain why he doesn’t. Sound familar?
BLOOM II seems to be upon us.
King – I read the budget amount that Bloom was given last year, if I find the article again I’ll post it.
This much is certain, John Henry said “Players are expensive”.
This much is also certain, the Red Sox have been over the threshold just once after 2019 – and that was by just a teeny tiny bit in 2022 because Bloom (or somebody working for him) lost track of his spending.
This much is also certain, the Red Sox have gone from biggest payroll in MLB for 2019 all the way down to 13th (12th for CBT).
This much is also certain, the Red Sox right now are projected to be $52M under the base CBT threshold.
Everybody on this planet knows Dombrowski left and Bloom was brought in to reduce payroll and keep it down, to operate “the Rays Way”.
When you put that all together, and use critical thinking, it’s kinda hard to not realize no sane person would accept a head of baseball ops position, get told by ownership that winning now is a priority, get told by ownership he can spend as much as he wants to achieve that priority, and then STILL decide to go cheap.
Jesus the absence of logic around here is frightening.
TF – I love your passion!
Just curious, why do you think Henry forced out Dombrowski?
Obviously it wasn’t because of a lack of success, as Dombrowski had a HUGE amount of success.
Ghost – Now THAT is far more likely how it went down!
Fever – Your finances summary is a bit off.
2018 and 2019 – $40MM or more of retained payroll from Cherington. DD ignored it and Bloom was afraid to go over with it so he cut way back when he shouldn’t have. It cost the team 5 years of winning.
When Bloom went over he went over a CAP $30MM more than any DD saw. Bloom went over with the same guys DD had by adding a ton of worthless cheap players.. NO QUALITY PLAYERS but he went over a CAP $30MM more than what DD was able to stay under.
That’s how bad Bloom was at finances. He and Cherington were morons and really hurt Boston’s chances of winning with their irresponsible spending.
Last and most importantly, you rationalized Breslow’s behavior. Yes, this man was given carte blanche money. Yes he was told to build a champion and yes he accepted a job nobody wanted because of what Bloom did to the organization and the role Cora plays in the organization as the backstabber of GMs.
Breslow’s ego appears to be every bit as big as Bloom’s if not bigger. He wants HIS TEAM not an immediate winner like he’s been paid to build. Why get an O’Neill as your first move when 2 TOP FLIGHT SPs are the greatest need? O’Neill is a diamond in the rough thump my chest guy just like Bloom sought. It’s not about the winning for Breslow, it’s about the glory just like Bloom. He’s had a ton of chances to prove himself and he’s not succeeded in ONE GOOD DEAL!! An over pay for a OFer we don’t need, an over pay for a SP3 or SP 4 we don’t need and a purchase of a young 2B which we need but at a cost of $17MM so a huge over pay.
All his over pays and you think he has limited money. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that supports your viewpoint.
I was mad when they traded Dick Stuart.
If the Sox can’t sign Montgomery to a decent contract–give it up.
So 5yr @ $18 M with a couple of Opt-outs after the 2nd and 3rd yr. Maybe add $500,000 toward a condo near his wife’s hospital.
Then, TRADE Masa and you have a quality starter. for a replaceable outfielder..
Sign Chapman to have a decent infield. Trade Hanley for a couple of pen arms. Move Devers to DH.
LET’S go to Spring Training.
Anybody on this board, not being paid $1 M a year, could make that happen.
I think they need a RH power bat for cleanup.
Duran
Grissom
Devers
NEW PERSON
Yoshida
O’Neill
Casas
Story
Wong
That could be a pretty effective lineup.
Hayzee – Casas batting 7th? You expect him to regress that much?
Grissom hasn’t earned a spot in the top half of the lineup yet.
I wouldn’t have Casas hitting any higher than 5th and that would be against lefties. I wasn’t him as my three hole hitter. I like against righties:
Grissom
Yoshida
Casas
Devers
Story
Abreu
Oneil
Wong
Duran
In this scenario Yoshida is the DH I would also be fine flipping Grissom and Duran but Grissom was an on base machine in the minors and Duran would give a second leadoff guy in the 9 hole. This can all change if they add someone else. In this scenario I have Rafaela starting in AAA but if he wins the job out if spring training he’s the center fielder and Duran moves to left with Abreu and Oneil sharing right. That’s how I see it right now but Casas imo has to be in the damage position next to Devers.
Bruin – In your first sentence you meant lower, not higher … right?
Bruin1012 – Lets start with line-up making 101!!.
First batter is a speedster – That’s not Grissom but it is Rafaela or Duran.
Second batter is your best OBP guy. In theory, that should be Yoshida.
Third batter is your best power hitter. In theory that’s Devers
Fourth batter is a righty power hitter since Yoshida and Devers are lefty. Choices are using your 9 hitters either Story or O’Neill. Based on Story not hitting it has to be O’Neill.
Fifth hitter is Casas the lefty power hitter
Sixth hitter needs to be Story based on Abreu making the top 9 undeservingly.
Seventh hitter is Abreu
Eighth hitter is Wong
Grissom becomes the nine hitter.
Swapping Grissom and Story would be fine if Story can’t hit in 2024.
This is not a good line-up and should win 81 games even without knowing the SPs.
You are playing a bad 3B, you are sitting your best young player in Rafaela, you are not taking advantage of your speed guys but at least you got Yoshida in his most effective slot in the order.
By moving Rafaela to right field where he SHOULD BE starting the order starts with the right handed RAFAELA. with big speed makes the most sense.
Then Yoshi bats second. There is a huge need for a powerful right handed bat that plays 3B to bat 3rd but until that happens you must use O’Neill in the 3 hole.
Devers bats fourth, Casas fifth, Grissom sixth, Duran seventh, Wong eighth Story ninth
A few corrections to your comments:
1 – Grissom’s walk rate in the minors was .087 in the majors is a very average .052
2 – 2023 saw Duran with a walk rate of .051 and a higher batting average than Grissom.
Grissom is not a top of the order guy but Duran is and belongs in front of Yoshi if it’s not going to be Rafaela.
Your understand of the impact of speed on the base paths is negligible. Duran and Rafaela are the two most critical base runners on the team and force the defense to make changes. They should bat high in the order with Yoshi behind them and Devers behind him.
Most runs produced in Boston over the last decade have come from the first four hitters. That’s why you put your best hitters in those spots if you know what you are doing. Duran or Rafaela need to lead off and Yoshi needs to be 2nd until he gets traded then Duran and Rafaela need to lead off with Devers third. Casas needs to be in the top five and until Breslow gets a power hitting 3B there is a hole in the line-up for a right handed power bat.
FYI there is no need to hit Devers and Casas back to back if you have a power hitting right handed 3B that can field like a vacuum sweeper named Matt Chapman. If Casas continues to improve and Devers continues to slide he needs to be the 5th hitter like in the old days when we had four great hitters at the top of the order and then Devers.
Troll listen I know you’re a legend in your own mind but the fact is your leadoff guy needs to get on base first and foremost. Its would be ideal if the are both speedy and can get on base but getting on base for your best hitters is important. Grissom has been a very high obp guy in the minors and guess what he steals bases as well at a very high clip. Since I’m not real familiar with Vaughn other then he has destroyed the minor leagues gets on base and steals bases at a very high percentage then sure I like him as a potential leadoff hitter.
I like Masa in the two hole he makes contact doesn’t strike out much uses the whole field he’s a perfect two hole hitter.
I like Casas in the three hole imo he’s going to be the best hitter on the Red Sox moving forward. He won’t chase his mentality is great for a three hole hitter it’s possible against lefties you move him down a tick in the order to maybe 5th but he was doing quite well against lefties later in the season as well.
Devers is in the 4 hole with the way this roster is currently constructed. If a guy like Soler is signed this could change the dynamic of the lineup but based on current roister construction I see Devers in the 4 hole.
The 5 hole is where it gets more difficult I want someone to breakup the the three lefties in a row so this is where I place either Story or O’Neil depending on who’s hotter.
I like the right fielder in my scenario Abreu to hit 6th good power disciplined hitter will take a walk this seems like the right spot for him
7th is either Story or O’Neil
8th is Wong
9th I like having a second leadoff type guy like Duran or Grissom in the 9 whole. I can go either way Duran can lead off if he can get on base and Grissom bats 9th I guess we just see how they look in spring training.
That’s how I see it at this point of course if you want to go fantasy and think Boston signs Chapman of course that changes the lineup dynamics. The biggest point I was making is you can’t have your best or second best hitter batting 7th. In this team he has to hit in one of the top 4 spots I like the three hole. The bottom line this a lineup with a lot of uncertainty and can go many ways.
It’s also important to remember Duran is coming off of foot surgery and by far his biggest asset is speed and aggressiveness in using that speed. I want to see how he looks in spring training health wise before anointing him leadoff. If Duran looks good in spring training hopefully yea he could be a good leadoff hitter assuming he gets on base. He was the benefactor of a very high babip so if we get some regression, likely, he’s more of a .325 obp percentage guy not really ideal for a leadoff guy but assuming his speed hasn’t been reduced by foot surgery he could be an effective leadoff hitter.
whyhayzee – If you consider hitting only it would be ok. If you take into account two guys who can’t field and only one DH spot you have a very average team. Fixing it is easy. Trade Yoshi move Devers to DH and go get a letit 3B who fields and hits like Matt Chapman.
You left off Rafaela which is a huge mistake so here is the ideal line-up
Duran CF – Lefty
Rafaela RF – Righty
Devers DH – Lefty
Chapman 3B – Righty
Casas 1B = Lefty
Grissom 2B – Righty
Abreu LF – Lefty
Wong C – Righty
Story SS – Righty
You can platoon O’Neill and Abreu based on the pitcher.
Add to this hitting the following pitching:
Burnes, Snell, Giolito, Bello, Houck/Crawford
Pivetta long relief
Whitlock stress innings
Martin and Winckowski righty relief
Hader and TBD lefty relief
Jansen closer
The preseason will determine where Rafaela plays it’s either going to be center or he’s starting in AAA if he struggles in the preseason and needs more time to develop his approach. I hope he makes the big club because that means Duran plays left with Abreu/Oneil in right. In this scenario Yoshida is the primary DH.
I’m not even bringing up Devers because clearly he isn’t being moved off third as long as Cora is the manager. It’s just not happening. Do I think he should be the DH and should they sign Chapman to play third yes I do. I think defensively the team would be much better and the left side infield defense would be elite. It’s not going to happen though so I’m not going to spend too much time on it.
We differ on where Rafaela plays but imo he needs to play center field. He’s elite defensively at that position and that’s the outfield position he played in the minors. Abreu/Oneil should split time in right. Duran should be the left fielder. Abreu is a very good defender with an excellent arm. What I know about Oneil sounds like he’s a solid defender with a good arm would be a good platoon partner with Abreu. The outfield defense would be very good in this configuration. I think this makes the most sense assuming Rafaela and Abreu can win rooster spots in spring training.
Bruin1012 – You have no ideas so stop with the BS. Rafaela will be fine in ST and earn the RF position forcing Abreu back to AAA since the moron Breslow wasted money on O’Neill.
We’ve discuss this in the past. Rafaela needs to play right as the best athlete just like Mookie. Duran’s speed dictates center field and that leave left field for Abreu/O’Neill until Anthony is ready. Best ARM goes in right field and that is Rafaela as we all saw last year.
Unfortunately,if Cora remains at Manager anything could happen because he has no idea of what he is doing as a manager. Your line-up could easily happen with an inept manager who is clueless about how to set a defense.
I’m not saying this is what will happen I am saying this is what SHOULD happen.
Troll your wrong Rafaela plays center period end of story if he hits. You are under the misconception that because Mookie played right field then Rafaela should play right. Mookie played a lot of center and if Boston didn’t already have a gold glove caliber center fielder in JBJ already in center he would have played center. Right field in Fenway is no doubt very difficult and maybe on par with center because of Fenway’s dimensions. Why would you put Rafaela in Right when you have a subpar defender in center who is terrible route runner with a poor arm. When you have a terrific defensive center fielder gold glove caliber in Rafaela. Abreu is a very good defender who gets great jumps makes very good plays and has an excellent arm he’s made for right field in Fenway. It’s obvious to me you don’t watch much if any minor league baseball if you did you would know how silly your argument is.
It doesn’t matter though because both those guys need to hit in Spring Training to make the club. Abreu has a much more mature approach at the plate and more power thus I think he’s got a much better chance of starting in Boston this season then the swing at everything approach of Rafaela. When you chase as much as he does you better be elite at generating good contact on balls out of the strike zone such as Arraez but he isn’t at least not at this point.
Bruin1012 – So much you say is wrong.
1 – Duran is an excellent defender 2 errors in 352 chances over three seasons.
2 – Rafaela had more games with a hit in 2023 than Abreu.
3 – Abreu DID NOT get a hit in 17 of his 28 games.
Rafaela DID NOT get a hit in 14 of his 28 games.
4 – Abreu got 12 of his 24 hits in three blowouts and had 2 other multi hit games . Abreu had 5 mulit-hit games and 6 games with a single hit.
Rafaela had five multi-hit games and 9 games with one hit.
Yet thanks to the two blowout one guy hit..241 and the other hit .316 including a home run off the Houston catcher in one of the blowouts.
5 – Abreu struck out 23 times in 76 at bats. while Rafaela struck out 28 times in 83 at bats. If you dig into the quality of starters faced by each player, Rafaela had more at bats versus better pitchers. He never faced a catcher in a clean up role like Abreu did.
So what does this prove? Rafaela IS NOT a guy who swings wildly at pitches, he’s comparable to Abreu in K rate. He’s a much faster runner thus base stealer and he has a better arm.
He also played SS multiple games and CF while Duran was out. Duran is the full time center fielder and Rafaela will be the full time right fielder if anyone with a brain sets the line-up. Since it’s likely to be Cora, all choices are fair game.
All the chase crap you wrote is you making things up to try and make Abreu who you like to be better than the superior athlete,superior defender, superior base runner and superior hitter Rafaela..
Facts don’t lie but you do.
Bruin – I really think there will be at least one more trade coming this offseason, it’s impossible to draw conclusions now. What if Story gets traded or hurt? I can see Rafaela playing SS in either situation.
I also think there’s a good chance one of Duran, Abreu,or Rafaela gets traded for starting pitching. I don’t think Yorke would be enough to land a top pitcher, and Mayer/Teel/Anthony are basically untouchable.
Fever, yes it’s possible that there are more moves coming and maybe a trade involving some prospects and an outfielder but at this point I don’t see it. It’s looking like Cease is going to start with the White Sox and probably be moved at the trade deadline. I’m 90% certain that Burnes won’t be moved either. I think the Brewers start with him and move him at the trade deadline been saying this for awhile. I’m not even sure that Bieber is moved but out of everyone he’s the most likely. It doesn’t really appear that any of the controllable pitchers are really available via trade except by a gross overpay. I will be surprised if there’s much movement on the trade front before spring training begins. I think what we see is mostly what we have going into spring training and as such I think the lineup I presented, while flawed, gives us the best chance. No way you have Casas batting 7th unfortunately the best hitters on the RedSox are mostly lefties. Perhaps the add a strong handed bat such as Soler or bring back turner and that can shake things up a bit. We will see but the current ask for controllable big league pitching seems to be quite excessive. I have been saying for a while I think Breslow is going to take this season to evaluate with his people and then go after it harder after this season. Hope I’m wrong and we are surprised by some quality last second signings and trades.
Fever – We must include Yoshi with either Jansen or Mayer to get a quality SP like we are looking for. Mayer is this year’s Moncada. If he can land a guy of Sale’s stature and Cora can be fired that would be a great deal. There is no point in getting new SP1 and SP2 pitchers if Cora is still the manager. He’s screwed up every great pitcher he’s managed. Sure it’s only 2 guys but hey he’s 2 for 2. Batting 1000 and prepared to continue his mishandling going forward.
As of today, Anthony should be the only borderline untouchable prospect. Teel’s overall numbers will be lucky to equal an above league average middle infielder but that’s significantly better than most catchers so he has value. Anthony might be a perennial all-star like Betts or JD.but it’s still early. If he dominates in 2024 then he needs to be untouchable. If he has issues like Yorke, Mayer, Jordan and others then he’s a good prospect with a limited MLB upside. Those are the pretenders we need to trade while their value is high..
Troll you show off your ignorance when you say Duran is an excellent fielder because he has only two errors in two years. Just an FYI it’s 2024 now not 1950 errors aren’t the only way to judge a defender. By any measure he has very poor outfield instincts. He’s poor rout runner, he gets poor jumps, he consistently has to make adjustments on fly balls the only redeeming quality is his speed that he uses to make up for mistakes making him passable on defense but an excellent defender NO.
Let me also educate you on players that chase like Rafaela. Once again you look at one aspect strikeouts but in Rafaela’s situation it’s not strikeouts that are the problem for him it’s poor contact when he chases in other words he gets himself out with poor contact when chases excessively off the plate. The worry with Rafaela is that the more advanced pitchers in the big league won’t throw him strikes and he will chase and make a lot of weak contact. Troll this is the reason that I like Abreu to make it out of spring training and Rafaela continues to work on his approach in AAA. To be clear I like Rafaela and I hope I’m wrong and turns out to be the rare guy that chases off the plate and still hits line drive’s like Arraez but the odds are against him. I just think Abreu is kind of like Casas lite he doesn’t chase much he takes a lot of walks he has a nice approach that should translate to the big leagues. It’s possible his in zone swing and miss turns into excessive swing and miss kind of like Chavis but right now I like him to stick out of spring training if I had to bet.
In a perfect world Rafaela earns the center field job out of spring training he hits enough to let his gold glove level defense be a difference maker. Abreu comes out of spring training as the right fielder showing a blend of power and patience as well as good defense in right with a great right field arm and the outfield is set for years to come.
This team is in the Cheap Doldrums with Breslow running the show. They are not going to pick up anyone unless they fall to them on cheap team friendly upside contracts. They did bs over the last 4 years with Bloom. Most of our decent rookies were picked up under Dombroski not Bloom. He really mismanaged this team two years ago by picking up Hosner and hanging onto to JD Martinez, Nathan Eovaldi. It did not make sense and insult to injury, trading Vazquez to a team we were playing that night Houston. Four years of bs, bad trades and garbage picked up for Benintendi and Betts. Now we are suppose to give Breslow 3 or 4 years to be competitive? Are you kidding me? That would be a total of 7-8 years in a major baseball market like Boston. Werner making that comment,”Full Throttle” is a bunch of bs too. That is unacceptable! I will not pick up a package nor go to see this team. Fans should follow suit as well.
And they will. Boston isn’t Tampa Bay or Kansas City. It’s my hope Henry is talking to Goldman Sach to identify potential buyers.
Ghost – No chance of selling before Corners is done.
I believe that Henry is insisting that this club is going to be run using Moneyball concepts. Even Billy Beane was sure that the tactics he employed were only good in the short term, until everyone figured out that they could do it also, and the competitive advantage would disappear. so, unless there is another innovation (like focusing on OBP) or other market “inefficiencies” identified, the Sox will have to pay. Henry can afford it.
If Henry had his way, the Sox would be a revenue-sharing team. He got crushed under the weight of his other investments amid the pandemic and now he’s cash poor.
I loved him when he first bought the Sox. He wanted to win and wasn’t afraid to spend the money. Then they got silly diversifying their investment portfolio. He had a good run. Now it’s time to sell to someone with deeper pockets and better long-term vision.
Ghost – Henry owns only 49% so he can’t decide to sell on his own, only his shares can be sold.
Besides the other investments, Redbird buying a huge chunk of FSG is most definitely a big reason for the greatly reduced payroll budget. And of course the Corners which will require massive funding.
Expect a sale in about a decade, when the Corners is complete and Henry is in his 80’s. Then winning championships will truly become a priority again, along with acquiring elite players.
Full throttle. For waiver wire pickups, that is.
Ghost – I get that you have a grudge against ownership but be fair. We’ve had two incredibly inept GMs and yes they hired them but on paper both looked good. In practice, they suck. Fixing this team isn’t that hard but apparently the genius Breslow can’t figure it out. He, like Bloom, is on a self focused approach to making the team his own. Nobody gives a rats patoot whether the GM can claim victory in his own name, we simply want a Championship caliber team with the huge amount of money being provided by the owners. If they fund to the CAP, this GM should be able to build a winner quickly. They have over paid on Breslow’s first three moves so why is ANYONE suggesting the issue is the owners? Be fair.
Breslow is at fault as was Bloom. Go negotiate contracts that fit the needs and stop futzing with crap players that won’t impact anything. Do your reclamation projects like O’Neill and Giolito AFTER you get a SP1 and SP2 and a 3B.
The Astros are going after all-star quality left handed reliever (#3 on the BOS team’s NEED list). Breslow busy trying to sign a 7th OF who is cold more often than hot.
It’s the story of the off season. Why go for what we can need when you can go for unnecessary depth at positions that have unlimited choices?
Breslow is every bit as bad as Bloom so far.
FILL A DAMN HOLE YOU IDIOT!!!! That kind of depth thinking is for losers!!!
YET ANOTHER AVAILABLE ALL+STAR THAT IS NEEDED IS PASSED OVER.
TF – I love your passion!!
John Henry has discussed this topic, not from Springfield though as he isn’t even bothering to attend any of the weekend long event despite the many current players and former Sox legends being there.
Here’s what Henry said: “Players are expensive”.
Fever – Players are expensive. I agree. Owners are greedy. Both are true. These owners make ungodly amounts of profit that could be plowed back into winning.
If the owners are doing the limiting which I DO NOT believe shame on them. If the GMs are doing the limiting which DOES seem to be the case once again, then fire them and hire someone who can get the winning back.
So many not blaming Breslow reminds me of 2020. The old just give Bloom time. What a frickin disaster. No rope for Breslow. Do it now or get the heck out of here. Thinkers have proven to be stinkers. Go get men of action to be the GM not a beautiful mind type guy who can’t take action.
TF – If you’ve been following all of today’s reports from Winter Weekend, you are probably furious at ownership right now.
You have probably seen the quote from Kennedy confirming the Red Sox will “probably” have a lower payroll than last year’s 13th-ranked amount which was $11M below the base CBT threshold.
And oh, by the way …. they waited until TWO DAYS AFTER THE SEASON TICKET DEADLINE to make the announcement. Obviously not a coincidence.
And one final kick in the nuts …. they raised ticket prices again, with Werner saying it’s justified because they aren’t selling the actual games but instead they are selling the “Fenway Experience”.
Time to move on, ownership (not the coward John Henry) has finally confirmed everything the world has been saying for over 4 years.
We will never know how many championships Dombrowski could have brought the Red Sox if Henry didn’t change course and go cheap. It could have been a dynasty.
But on the bright side, this almost certainly means Cora won’t be managing the Red Sox for much longer.
Fever – Here is what I don’t understand.
Bloom said he was building the farm system and tanked the MLB team to do so. During the four years NOT ONE of Bloom’s rebuilt farm system guys contributed to the winning at the MLB level. Now Breslow seems to think he can do what Bloom could not. He’s no obsessed with cleaning house at the MLB level like Bloom was but does he think the type of deals that he’s done so far IMPROVES the farm system OR the MLB team? If so, HOW?
He’s gambling on O’Neill and Giolito. Building a sound foundation for your club should NOT happen at the Black Jack table. We don’t want gambles we want rock solid all-star quality talent. Is the idea now to totally tank and get high draft picks several years in a row so we can build a juggernaut in 2030 that will last ONE year? See we had a juggernaut and it did last one year and then ownership put TNT under the six pillars and blew the thing to kingdom come.
It’s pretty simple. Compete or don’t compete. Breslow chooses to not compete just like Bloom. Why? Is there a secret owner we don’t know about who is a Yankee spy pulling all the strings to keep this team down?
Nothing since DD got fired makes sense if you want to win.
People are so impatient . Sometimes the best way to the top of the mountain is to go back down and take another route . Just throwing money at free agents won’t address all the needs this team has . They have some exciting young players that if we can continue adding positional player talent to casas , Grissom and devers . With Rafeala , Teel , Mayer and Anthony . If we can develop a starter or two then you trade for a starter and sign a starter but all great teams comes from an internal build .
Soooo Puk – Not much of a baseball fan? Big problem with your analogy. We were at the summit with DD and Bloom drove us down the mountain in a deep deep depression which has a fissure that cracked open and now Breslow can drive us into the fissure.
Do you even follow the Red Sox?
Their exciting young players are Duran, Rafaela, Houck, Bello, Crawford and Abreu. The clowns in the minors haven’t proven anything yet. They a FUTURES not current MLB players adding value like the ones i mentioned. Hoping and praying for good things to come was the Bloom mantra and you apparently bought into it.
We developed a pitcher or two or three. Their names are Bello, Houck and Crawford. Not to mention they purchased Pivetta and Whitlock two more nice young pitchers. They have Winckowski a nice young reliever and they purchased two veteran relievers in Martin and Jansen.
What they need is TWO SPs that can take over the SP1 and SP2 spots that haven’t been filled since Price was given away and Sale got hurt.
The internal build has already happened thanks to DD. The Bloom build has not happened and may not because the quality of the farm players is lower than the DD players. If we get Anthony as an every day starter that performs well over league average that would be great. The others all look like league average players and those types need to be complimentary to a set of all-stars like Mookie, Benny, Bogey, JD and Nate. We only have Devers at this point and he’s the weakest of the six and his price tag is 50% over his value.
If you are young, it’s easy to understand why basking in 4 championships in 20 or 30 years is cool and patience works. If you lived 50 years without a win from Boston then got 4 then destroyed the team, the patience level is extremely low. I’d like to see another ring in my lifetime. My father lived to 80 and never saw one. Being patient is NOT an option for the baby boomers who suffered for roughly half a century waiting for quality teams. To throw them away like Bloom did is unforgivable and it’s now on ownership to return us to winning quickly before a major segment of the diehard fan base passes away. SO you can take your patience and go watch football.
PJK – For four years now Red Sox fans have watched a number of star players leave because of money and the payroll drastically decline. I would say 4 years is more than enough patience, especially while they continue to raise prices and generate the 3rd-most revenue in MLB.,
Ownership fired DD and brought in Bloom and he destroyed it. Ownership let ( the great one Cora ) LOL , come back after his suspension. Breslow has been far from impressive thus far. Again ownership hired him and he probably is stuck with Cora as his manager. These guys are trying to reinvent the wheel over there. Ownership is just as much to blame for this disaster as Bloom or whatever Breslow does .
Jeter Downs just got DFA’d by the Yankees!! That should wrap up his career that never happened as a pretender in the Mookie deal. All those of you who gave me grief when I told you how bad he was, pound sand. Verdugo and Wong are never going to amount to anything either and LAD has 11 seasons of Mookie who keeps raising his career OPS+
Too bad ownership doesn’t hire checks and balances from sites like this one to validate against the decision making of their GM. I hate seeing the ineptitude of the this organization after all these years of living and dying for each spring training. Remembering Teddy Ballgame, the kid Tony C and Yaz then Rice and Lynn and Dewey and finally Pedro Papi and Varitek it makes me sick to see this organization so mishandled. Time for a change.