The Cardinals were among the offseason’s most aggressive teams early. St. Louis signed Sonny Gray, Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn within the winter’s first couple weeks. That accomplished their goal of bringing in three veteran starters. Things have been quiet since November, as they’ve traded away Tyler O’Neill and swapped outfielder Richie Palacios for middle reliever Andrew Kittredge.
It seems St. Louis’ early flurry on the rotation front will represent the main part of their offseason activity. St. Louis president Bill DeWitt III tells John Denton of MLB.com the club doesn’t anticipate taking on much more payroll this offseason. While DeWitt left open the possibility for reinvesting in the MLB roster after subtracting some amount of money in trade, he implied they’re near the limit of their financial comfort zone.
“Look, I think we’re always open to improving our club within reason, but, you know, we’ve already made some big moves,” DeWitt told Denton. “With payroll, it has to be thought of in the context of the whole business with all the investments we’re making in other aspects of the product on the field. … So, we are making a pretty big push by raising payroll and having revenues somewhat challenged (a reference to the ongoing Diamond Sports Group bankruptcy that could impact their local broadcasting deal with Bally Sports Midwest). It’s actually quite a commitment. Now, is there a little more room there? It depends on the deal.”
That the Cardinals are near their spending target doesn’t come as a major surprise. Roster Resource projects the organization’s 2024 player payroll around $177MM. That’s almost exactly where they opened the 2023 campaign, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts. President of baseball operations John Mozeliak essentially declared at the outset of the offseason that the Cards would have a similar starting payroll in ’24 as they did a year ago.
It’s fair to wonder if the organization has done enough to get back to playoff competitiveness. Lynn is a rebound candidate after giving up 44 home runs. Gibson has been a reliable innings-eater but typically turns in back-of-the-rotation results. Gray should be a significant upgrade, but the Cardinals entered last season with Jordan Montgomery and still didn’t have nearly enough starting pitching.
As things stand, it looks as if they’ll open next year with a rotation comprising Gray, Miles Mikolas, Gibson, Lynn and Steven Matz. Young left-handers Zack Thompson and Matthew Liberatore could push Matz for a rotation spot. The Cardinals could still look for a lower-cost addition to the relief corps to deepen the group in front of Giovanny Gallegos, JoJo Romero and Ryan Helsley.
TrumboRedux
Awesome pic for the article. Would love to see a night game there. Never been to St. Louis.
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Stay away from the Westside
TrumboRedux
I just wanna eat a bunch of bbq food there, see a ballgame, and go gawk at that big arch for a few mins.
kripes-brewers
Go, it’s worth it. Been a half dozen times myself. Very good food and hotels right there in the area. Plenty of live music if you look around.
LetTheGoodTimesROFL
It’s very mid. If you are looking to take a three day weekend it might do the trick. Don’t forget the nose plugs!
letsholdemandgohome
I went to school with a guy who’s Grandfather was part of the crew that helped build the arch. He had lots of photos of them building it.
TrumboRedux
That is awesome. My great grandpa helped build the golden gate bridge and used to have some really neat pics as well. Got lost over the years sadly.
dazhk
Uhhhh the west side is where you want to be!! Stay away from the east side and get out of downtown as soon as the game is over.
l9ydodger
That’s a BIG 10-4! Stay away from east side, the north side & get out of downtown immediately after the game! If you still have a car!
Best advice, go to a day game!
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Wasn’t it the Eastside that was ground zero for one of the big riots/protests when the White Cop shot the Black Youth? Pre-George Floyd but Post-Trayvon Martin??
FrontOfficeStan
No. That was Ferguson. Eastside = illinois. Home to several sketchy late night places in Washington Park, Centreville, Sauget, etc.
mad1
You would be wise to bring a weapon if attending a night game
TrumboRedux
I’ll make sure to bring my slapjack.
Eighty Raw
Yall are some of the biggest babies
Candlestoked
It’s a great park and the fans really get behind their redbirds!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Hail to the Victors! Wolverines are national champions!
StlSwifty
I wouldn’t say we’re all that much better than we were last year. I think the biggest improvements came by signing gray, getting O’Neill out of the clubhouse, and letting waino retire. Lynn and Gibson don’t move the needle. And our bullpen is still uninspiring. It’s another year of trying to win the division just to see who knocks us out of the first round of playoffs.
Joel P
The guy who needs to get out of the clubhouse was Marmol not ONeill
TrumboRedux
Yadi will be steering the ship soon enough, fear not!
Joel P
Yadi is great but I want a manager with experience this time. No disrespect to Yadi. Maybe next time there is an opening.
TrumboRedux
Ozzie Guillen it is then!
FrontOfficeStan
Yadi had a lot of time managing without being dubbed the manager.
paulk-2
not until Mozliak is gone.
Wilford Pennington
I completely agree.
CardsFan57
Overall the starters are better than last year. I feel like the bullpen will be better. The question is whether certain young players start living up to their potential. Gorman, Walker, Winn, Nootbaar, Burleson. The team also needs Arenado to get back to his norm.
This team could be much better. It may also end up in last place again if the young players don’t step up.
Joel P
Yeah I think Walker and Winn are huge question marks. And Goldschmidt and Arenado who knows really what you will get out of them as they are getting older. I want to believe but this looks to me like a 500 team.
Charlie'sSinging
Arenado is not getting back to what he used to be. Father time has caught him. He’s still an excellent player but will never be what he was again. Gorman probably has already lived up to his potential. Just needs to stay healthy, which is a huge question mark for a power hitter with back issues. Nootbar has lived beyond what most would have thought of as his potential. Again, health is probably his limiter, but he’s unlikely to get any better. I don’t have a ton of hope for Burleson. I wish they would have moved him. He’s such a liability in the field, and I don’t think he’ll ever get the ABs he needs in St. Louis to see his potential. So that really leaves Walker and Winn to improve. I’m confident both will improve, but Winn needs to improve by leaps and bounds to even have a spot on the roster.
meangreandancingmachine
I agree – I think Winn plays most of his time in Memphis. I see Edman taking over SS in his absence, meaning Carlson will receive most of his at-bats in CF…
…At least until Victor Scott II is ready.
ruthlesslyabsurd
Arenado literally led the league in bWAR in 2022
JoeBrady
Arenado is not getting back to what he used to be.
=======================
I mentioned this last year. He and Goldie should’ve been traded. Y’all had enough players, of lesser quality, to fill every position.
If you had absorbed 100% of their 2023 salaries, you might’ve gotten a decent return. And with the $61M in 2024 savings, you might have been signing Snell and Monty instead of Lynn and Gibson.
JoeBrady
Arenado literally led the league in bWAR in 2022
=======================
I hear this from fans of every team. He’s going to be 33. He is likely already on the decline.
Cardsfanatik redux
“if you’d have absorbed all their salaries for 23, you “MIGHT” have gotten a DECENT return”… are you serious right now? They could have cleaned out a farm by doing that with Arenado, and gotten serious return for Goldy. Arenado turning 33 doesn’t mean he’s done. People like you that just spout off nonsense amuse me.
Joel P
Montgomery and Snell will require long term deals. The money wasn’t the same at all. And there is more to it besides on field production. The Cardinals want Goldschmidt to go into the HOF as a Cardinal and same with Arenado.
Joel P
If you want to know something about a player from another team you know nothing about ASK don’t assume you know something you don’t.
Arenado was hurt last year. He played hurt. Is he going to be hurt in 2024? Who knows. But he was hurt in 2023.
Joel P
Arenado has barely any trade value as it is today and didn’t have much more at last years deadline. He has a big contract. Same with Goldschmidt they have big contracts that hurts their trade value.
Yankee Clipper
Can you Cards die hards speak on the comment, “with all the investments we’re making in other aspects of the product on the field.” If not payroll, what is he referencing? It seems contradictory while reading it, but perhaps it’s not.
bighiggy
He’s probably talking about the constant shuffling and building of things around the stadium. They own ballpark village which is a huge complex across the street. They are still building more stuff which costs upfront but will eventually make money on the backend. Have an engineer friend who works for the firm who does all of ballpark village and he says they have plans to expand even more. Says it got ramped up once the ballys news broke. Looks like they are looking for other avenues of revenue while they search for a new broadcasting partner.
Yankee Clipper
Ah, okay, that makes more sense. I took “on-field” product too literally I guess. I always interpreted that to mean the product between the lines. Thanks for the added context.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Hey Clip, just curious, is there anything cool to see around New Yankee Stadium or do people just filter in for the game and then get the heck out ??? Never been. (I heard parking is a drag.)
JoeBrady
I took “on-field” product too literally I guess.
==========================
FWIW, any time I hear this, I think teams spent money on new hot dogs trays, but not necessarily on the main product.
Charlie'sSinging
Likely didn’t actually mean “on the field”. Probably referencing brilliant moves like paying big money to a special advisor who they will have to pay to travel back and forth, because he won’t relocate. Either that or they bought the guys some new batting gloves. Could be that.
Jose Tattoo-vay
Clipper – I found that to be an odd statement too. New dirt and grass perhaps?
CardsFan57
I’ve heard they are trying to enhance their foreign scouting and facilities mostly in the Caribbean, Central, and South America.
Very Barry
No reason to waste the last couple of productive years of Arrenado and Goldschmidt. Dylan Cease completely changes the rotation, and fits the budget for the next 2 years. He neutralizes the Dodgers Yamamoto move, and the Braves getting Sale.
White Sox are willing to let you keep Masyn Wynn. Tink Hence, Chase Davis, Victor Scott, Tekoah Roby and Cooper Hjerpe will be what will need to move.
I am not convinced St. Louis is serious about winning.
RobblyDobs
100% ridiculous package.
baseballpun
I think they raised their floor. Not sure they raised their ceiling. Heading into last year they were coming off a 93-win season and were expected to compete for, if not win, the division.
Low 90s is probably where they could end up if things go well, but I think barring some huge amount of injuries 80 wins is probably about their floor. I would be surprised if they totally tanked again but I would also be surprised if they won 95+ games.
unpaidobserver
Just wait for Lance Lynn then…
This one belongs to the Reds
The Bally fiasco has a lot of teams in baseball weary of going past a certain number.
This one belongs to the Reds
That was supposed to read wary. At least I didn’t say wooly.
Charlie'sSinging
I really don’t think they were going to spend more than this even if they had certainty with their TV deal. It’s real, but more of a convenient excuse for this owner.
waynekerr69
Your worth 4 billion your fine
Johnny Vander Meer
*You’re *you’re
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Phonetically: “Yer”
retire21
Yinz
cards1994
Apparently Dewitt ignored the empty seats last year. I know he saw them. I went to six games with reported 40,000 and attendance and the stadium was half full or worse. He either don’t care or is juts this terrible at evaluating talent.
l9ydodger
GREEDY!!!
meangreandancingmachine
If Mikolas, Gray, Lynn and Gibson each throws between 180-200 innings each, this team will be much better than last year. More innings per start means less stress on the bullpen, translating into more saves and wins.
The offense *should* be better with (fingers crossed) improved seasons from Walker, Nootbaar and Winn. They’ll have to — to fill in the age recession to Goldy and Arenado.
I’m wondering if the Cardinals aren’t holding on to $5 to $7 million to use at the trade deadline, to shore up any holes they need?
Either way, I guess this is it, folks. Will the 2024 team win more than 71 games? Most assuredly. But what will that final win total be? 75? 89? 85?
Charlie'sSinging
It’s a little naive to think that either Lynn or Gibson (or both) won’t miss some time and/or lose even more effectiveness as their bodies break down with age. A track record only goes so far when you’re in the latter half of your thirties. Signing one of them would have been a fine part of the offseason. Signing both as part of the starting rotation is more of a prayer.
TrumboRedux
If Stl thought Lance still had more in the tank I think they would have brought him back. I just don’t think he has it anymore though.
Cardsfan21
They did bring him back
TrumboRedux
Thanks CardsFan, I am obviously confused haha. I forgot that he was back there now. I hope he does well, I like Lance.
Champs64
The young Cardinals need to progress, the team leaders need to play as well as they normally would and everyone needs to stay healthy. I actually like how the team looks at this point. Not exceptional but with potential. If we had a manager now that we had confidence in, I think I would have a much better feeling about 2024.
playhard9
They get off to a slow start, Marmol gets canned.
JR. White Rat
Pitching Pitching Pitching.
What good is 4 pitchers Pitching 200 innings if your ERA is between 5.60 to 7.00.
Lynn will get 180 innings at 7.70 ERA.
Well at least we got the innings. Isn’t mo great.
unpaidobserver
Somebodys got to set the record for worst single season ERA for ERA title qualifying starters. Why not Lynn? Why not now?
JR. White Rat
Only ones happy about this new Cardinals Pitching staff will be Cubs, Brewers, Reds and Pirates.
towinagain
Good for the Cardinals! An ownership group that wants to win. Take note Padres.
Cardsfan21
There’s not a Cardinals fan alive that sees this ownership group as “wanting to win”. They spend just enough to keep people coming back, which after last years disaster, wasn’t nearly enough. Seats were empty for the first time in ages by July. As a lifelong fan, they are flirting with damaging the brand beyond repair.
highflyballintorightfield
The Cardinals are one of only a few teams that has accomplished what it intended to accomplish this offseason. I get that fans might be upset that those intentions weren’t more ambitious, but there will be a lot of teams that won’t do as well.
Meisteralready
Their new rotation led the mlb in runs, home runs and hits. Other than Gray, this was cost effective, not ambitious
L Francis Reves
A large portion of the stress on the bullpen came from Captain Hook Oli. There were several games where he could have stretched the starter out a little.
In general, the 3 or less runs in 6 innings mark is arbitrary and nonsense. At the very least, that should be stretched to 7 innings. Over 162, that’d make a real difference.
letsholdemandgohome
They are sure backtracking rather quickly after the end of last season when they said they were going to increase payroll this season after finishing 71-91.
Those are only words. There’s more good pitching out there (starters and relievers) that imo they are going to need to be competitive in 24.
l9ydodger
The front office is missing an opportunity. They should trade Goldschmidt and Arenado while they can get good prospects and mlb proven players for them.
If the Cardinals struggle out of the gate again, watch Arenado become disenchanted. It looked like he already was last year.
Slider_withcheese
They’ll extend Goldschmidt and will again refuse to trade Arenado. It’s just how backwards they are.
Meisteralready
Arenado will demand a trade
CenterWingPolitics
They really should link up with the Braves for one of Ynoa, Elder, Anderson, Winans, etc, the Braves have so many for that fifth starter spot
Slider_withcheese
2024 Zips-
Gray 3.0 fWAR 4.04 FIP. Down
Mikolas – 165 IPS, 4.61 FIP, 1.9 fWAR down
Gibson – 149.7 IPs, 4.51 FIP, 1.6 fWAR down
Lynn – 141.3 IPs, 4.49 FIP, 1.5 fWAR down
Matz – 103.7 IPs, 3.98 FIP, 1.5 fWAR irrelevant
lol thinking that rotation is even average.
71 wins last year. 75 max this year.
Meisteralready
“Already made some big moves…”. They made one. Gray. That was their only big move. Lynn and Gibson are salvation cases, low cost, high risk
JR. White Rat
To deep, to far with the stats.
All you need is IP, ERA done.
Cardinals staff will be bottom of mlb 2024. 20th to 29th.
JR. White Rat
Now the Cubs have better pitching staff than the Cardinals
RandorBierd
Gray is a lateral move and takes the place of Montgomery. Lynn is washed up and Gibson is there to eat innings. Matz was removed from the rotation due to his ineffectiveness. The Cardinals have done nothing to improve. This team will not be improved from last year and has a strong possibility of being even worse.