The Astros announced they have signed left-hander Josh Hader. It is reportedly a five-year, $95MM contract. The deal has no deferrals, which makes it the largest contract ever given to a relief pitcher in terms of present-day value. Edwin Díaz signed a $102MM deal with the Mets prior to last season, setting a new benchmark for a reliever, but there was some deferred money that dropped the present-day value and competitive balance tax calculation to around $93MM.
Hader, a CAA Sports client, will earn $19MM annually through the 2028 season. The southpaw can also collect an additional $1MM bonus for winning the Reliever of the Year Award, an honor he has already received three times in his career. The deal contains a full no-trade clause and no options, team or player alike.
On Thursday, Rome and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported the Astros were “making a push” to sign the five-time All-Star. It came as little surprise that GM Dana Brown was looking to supplement a bullpen that lost several key players to free agency, namely Héctor Neris, Phil Maton, and Ryne Stanek. In addition, 2023 trade deadline acquisition Kendall Graveman is likely to miss the entire 2024 season after undergoing shoulder surgery. That said, Brown recently downplayed his desire to add another reliever. After the news broke of Graveman’s surgery, the GM told Brian McTaggart of MLB.com that the Astros were “still in the market for relievers,” but also said, “We got some internal candidates that we really feel good about.” In a similar vein, he told Rome, “We just may have to get one more body or one of our guys internally will step up.”
On top of that, Brown told reporters during the GM Meetings in November that he didn’t have “a ton” of payroll flexibility to work with. Thus, Astros fans began to brace themselves for a slow offseason, and rumors even began to emerge that the team could trade All-Stars Alex Bregman and Framber Valdez
In hindsight, the executive was clearly keeping his cards close to his chest. After all, signing the top reliever on the market to a record-breaking contract is just about the complete opposite of tightening the purse strings and hoping an internal candidate steps up. Indeed, Hader’s salary brings the Astros over the first luxury tax threshold and dangerously close to the second; according to Roster Resource, their CBT payroll sits at $254.6MM, less than $3MM away from the $257MM threshold. Houston has never paid the luxury tax before, although the team crossed the threshold in 2020 when there were no penalties for doing so.
Because Hader rejected a qualifying offer from the Padres, the Astros will lose their second-highest pick in the upcoming draft, as well as $500,000 in international bonus pool money. However, the extra penalties they could face as Competitive Balance Tax payors won’t kick in until next offseason; if the Astros remain over the CBT threshold throughout 2024 and sign another QO free agent next winter, they will forfeit their second- and fifth-highest draft picks, as well as $1 million in international bonus pool money.
The Astros don’t usually sign free agents with qualifying offers attached to them, just as they don’t usually exceed the CBT threshold. To that end, they don’t often sign $95MM deals. As Rome points out on X, this is the largest free agent contract the club has signed in Jim Crane’s 12-year tenure as owner of the Astros. Evidently, then, Crane and Brown have high hopes for what Hader can bring to the bullpen – and for good reason. The left-hander has long been one of the top relievers in the game. Across seven MLB seasons with the Brewers and Padres, he boasts a 2.50 ERA, 2.27 SIERA, and 165 saves in 190 chances. Since his debut in 2017, no pitcher (min. 5 IP) has struck out batters at a higher rate.
Hader, who turns 30 this April, looked as dominant as ever in 2023, ranking second among qualified NL relievers with a 1.28 ERA. Meanwhile, his Statcast expected ERA ranked third in all of baseball. What’s more, he recorded 33 saves in 61 games, crossing the 30-save threshold for the fourth time in his career. With a hard sinker and mystifying slider, he recorded 85 strikeouts in 56 1/3 innings of work.
The presumptive closer will join right-handers Ryan Pressly and Bryan Abreu at the back of what could be the scariest bullpen in the American League. The Astros ranked fourth in the AL in bullpen ERA last season and first from the trade deadline through the end of the year. Although Houston has parted ways with several key contributors this winter, adding Hader goes a long way toward replenishing what was lost. The three departing relievers, plus Graveman, provided the Astros with 1.4 Wins Above Replacement (WAR) last season, per FanGraphs. Hader alone was worth 1.7 WAR in 2023 and has averaged 1.94 WAR per 60 games throughout his career. While he cannot cover the workload of four separate pitchers all on his own, he should provide his team with 50-60 valuable innings in the most high-leverage spots. The Astros could still use some more depth to fill out the bullpen, but their back-end trio of Hader, Pressly, and Abreu might be the best one-two-three punch in the game.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported the two sides were in agreement on a five-year, $95MM deal with no deferrals. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com first relayed the even $19MM salaries, no-trade clause and award bonus. Joel Sherman of The New York Post relayed the $1MM value of that bonus. Chandler Rome of The Athletic reported the lack of options or opt-outs.
Noooooooooooooooo!
Rob Manfred said the Guardians were free to sign Hader
Call the Beekeeper.
OK this was going to be the thing that got the market moving. let’s see.
Every time someone signs, people comment that maybe this move will get the market moving…as the market continues moving.
Which market? The reliever market? Who’s left?
There was an article yesterday on this site listing all of the remaining free agents
gbs – Agreed! It’s comical how some people here wanted every trade and every free agent signing to happen 2 months before ST.
Apparently the trades of Glasnow, Sale and Soto and the signings of Yamamoto, Ohtani, Nola, Gray, Shota and ERod weren’t enough to satisfy their craving for instant gratification.
OIC – I wrote this morning it would be for less than $20M AAV …. and it is!!
Good move by the Astros, their owner wants to win every year which is fantastic.
Wish my team’s owner wanted to win, or at least wanted to stay out of last place every year.
Took some down years and complete overhaul to get to that point.
JJ – True, but that was a decade ago. They’ve made the postseason 8 of the past 9 years with a combination of good player development and spending big on the right guys, exactly what it takes to be a consistent contender these days.
Not only have they made the playoffs in 8 of the last 9 years, they’ve also made 7 straight trips to the ALCS with 4 World Series appearances. Whatever they are doing they are doing right
Half of those years had games won by trash can banging.
And most Astros fans call him cheap lol! The guy is the best owner our city has ever had.
Smartest thing Houston did was take a step back at the 2016 deadline. Perhaps Astros fans were not happy at the time but that step back allowed them to take 2-3 steps forward.
Rsox – I’ve said all along the Braves and Astros are the best run teams in MLB, and this is further proof.
They don’t hang their hat on a short “window” with a group of players, they are trying to win every year. Keeping the right players, letting the wrong players go, and filling the holes with free agents.
Fred – Not true, Cora was with the Astros only one year.
Les Alexander was a damn good owner
Your arithmetic is atrocious
Oh you predicted a reliever would sign for less than $20m AAV? Wow that is impressive!! Let me see how close I can get. I am gonna predict now that Montgomery and Snell sign for less than $35m AAV each!! Really going out on a limb there…
Paying any reliever even one as talented as Hader or Diaz $20m a year for 60 innings doesn’t make sense to me. That’s $333k per inning! If a team were to pay starters like that, Gerritt Cole would be getting over $65m a season. With relievers getting so expensive teams should be drafting pitchers with an eye towards making them relievers. That way every year they would have fresh young talent ready to throw 60 innings each for peanuts. Then all that reliever money can be spent where it should be. On the rotation. $20m gets you a very solid #3 that will give you 150-180 innings. With nothing getting spent on the pen a team could sign a #4 for $20m as well. A #4 that will give 150 innings of 3.50 ERA and a 3.90ish FIP is far more valuable imo than a stud reliever.
RS
“That’s $333k per inning! ”
Extreme Peter Brand voice: “Your goal shouldn’t be to buy innings, your goal should be to buy wins. And in order to buy wins, you need to buy runs.”
Who cares how many innings a player pitches? What matters is how many runs they produce.
Now, of course, those two things are related, but talking about how much someone earns per inning, makes no sense.
Especially when it’s for a team like Houston who has a very good chance of making the playoffs.
Hader is there to help them win a championship. Part of that is getting to the playoffs, sure, but they don’t really need him to do that. He’s there largely to pitch high-leverage innings in the playoffs.
@fever and banging trash cans. Can’t forget that.
Fever – Investigation found the sign stealing started in 2016 and ran through the 2018 season.
Rob – Who are you and why are you acting like a dbag to me? I said less than $20M AAV in response to someone theorizing $25M AAV.
You think I made an easy call? The MLBTR staff predicted $18.3M and oh yeah, he ACTUALLY SIGNED FOR $19M AAV.
So where the hell did you get this lame idea that my under $20M AAV was a slam dunk?
Geez bro, if you’re gonna come at me then do better.
Yup it will be funny when the Astros get beat 10-5 every night and end up having to use Hader in mop up work. Why don’t you put that money into your rotation morons? The most wasteful, inefficient use of money and there are people here saying how brilliant the Astros are. Morons will moron.
Fred – The official MLB report has Cora/Beltran as the mastermind/ringleader for the trashcan banging, they both joined the Astros for the 2017 season and left after that season.
I’m not questioning whether they cheated prior to 2017, but the trashcan thing definitely started in 2017.
This from the PBS documentary: “At some point in the 2017 season, though, the Astros figured out a way to alert a batter during home games even when there was no runner on second: by banging a trash can near a monitor located “immediately outside the Astros’ dugout.”
I hope you are being sarcastic because i think a lot of teams would love to have Verlander/Valdez/Javier/McCullers/Urquidy/Brown/France/Bielak at the MLB level with Arrighetti/Gordon/Kouba/Tamarez waiting in the wings
Ignorant – Like others here I’m also not sure if you’re being sarcastic.
In case you’re not, I’d agree with you if it was like 95% of the closers in MLB instead of Hader.
But when you’ve got a dominant lefty closer who hasn’t even turned 30 yet, that’s more valuable than anything.
I’ve always said this about Mariano, the closer is the ONE GUY that if he does his job (protect a lead) his team is guaranteed to win. Think about that.
I know I’ll probably get a lot of heat for saying this, but I have always believed Mariano was the most valuable Yankee during their most recent dynasty …. even more valuable than Jeter.
Whenever the Yankees had the lead in the 9th inning, it was basically game over. That’s a HUGE psychological advantage. Can’t say that about starting pitchers, because they can pitch 8 or 9 perfect innings and still their team could lose.
MLB RPs aren’t paid by piece rate – by the inning. They are paid for winning games. What do you think a single extra win is worth to an owner? How many extra wins should,we expect Hader to cause per year over the next five years.
There’s how players are generally valued by owners and GMs.
@Fever
Agreed. People around here seem to grossly undervalue just how important a lockdown Closer is to a successful team. Sometimes the hardest three outs to get are the last three outs and not every pitcher is capable of closing the door
I think you mean half the teams were doing the same thing the Astros were doing, and by the way they’re still winning lol
Along with the huge injury risk with RP. They’ll try and take care of him no back to back games etc making it a worse investment. Hader has been great but no position falls off faster than RP and it usually goes down fast.
Hear that Mets fans?
Rsox – I’m very comfortable in saying without Foulke, Pap and Koji the Sox win 3 less championships.
2018 was a little different.
Idk why fans won’t get over the trash can banging and keep bringing up every time the Astros sign a player to a new deal or basically whenever the Astros are on a thread…. Every team is trying to gain the edge anyway they can it’s all part of the game…. My team was on losing end during the time trashcan crap was going on it’s a easy scapegoat to use to help fans take the edge off the heartbreak of losing ….. Plus it’s getting old …. Gotta hand it to Atlanta and Houston they are doing great job of setting team up for success…. 26 days til pitchers and catchers report woohoo
FPG
“I’m very comfortable in saying without Foulke, Pap and Koji the Sox win 3 less championships.”
They would have had 3 other pitchers, though
And we all know that any pitcher van be great or terrible on any day.
So, as is the norm, your confidence is based on ignorance.
Yf
“Idk why fans won’t get over the trash can banging and keep bringing up every time the Astros sign a player to a new deal or basically whenever the Astros are on a thread”
“Gotta hand it to Atlanta and Houston they are doing great job of setting team up for success…. ”
I think I would add the Dodgers in there as well.
A bunch of immature males who love to bring up drama from the past.
You know how many games were won in the 80s and 90s because of steroids???
Kinda different since half the league was on them. Not just one team.
Bro they didnt cheat in 2016 whaaaa
YESSSS THANK YOU FINALLY A NORMAL YANKEES FAN
YESSS THANK YOU AGAIN
Pay it
Regret it
……okay but can he bang a TRADH CAN?
cryyy about it cryyy
Team: *cheats*
Others: “wtf dude?”
Team’s fans: “CRYYY ABOUT IT CRYYYYY ABOUT IT CRYYYY”
Yeah I’m saying cry because we are in 2024 right now and certain still havent got over something that happened in 2017 that all teams did that year and people are still making stupid jokes like calling the astros the astriks or trashtros and now asking if hader can bang a trash can
which teams did what they did?
I read this all the time and have seen ONE instance of proof.
They are trash. As people who cheat their peers, they are trash. All of them on the team should have been banned from MLB
You want proof, Ill give you. first off al the red sox cheated in 2018 and for that alex cora was suspended ad their manager for 1 year. second of all lucas giolito was on record saying “all teams cheated in 2017” 3rd of all chris bassit said the same thing as giolito 4th of all a document came out about the yankkes cheating that they asked not to be shown
The only conclusive proof of a team cheating that exists is for the Astros.
Yeah, your team cheated. It cheapens their WS. You’re just gonna have to take your lumps. If there’s anything that warrants “crying” about (aka mocking and criticizing), it’s cheating. The mockery is warranted and deserved for at least a decade.
Are we being mean to the cheaters? Cryyyy about it, cryyy.
First of all their is conclusvie proof of the Red Sox cheating in 2018, you’re clearly unknowledged when it comes to this so I suggest researching about it. Here is a link as proof if you dont believe me: usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2023/02/21/mookie-be…
Next, when I said crying I meant crying because teams are jealous they cant win like the Astros can fairly (which they did is 2022).
Lol, thats what we call a jealous fan…
The “all team cheat” defense. No the Astros cheated, and the Red Sox cheated. Their teams got extremely lenient penalties that makes the fans think that there’s not that big of a deal therefore, they say cry instead of being ashamed like they should be. Shame shame on your trash can bang bang. But no we shouldn’t be holding the 2024 Astros responsible for the 2017 Astros but we should be holding the players that cheated responsible and those players should be out of baseball and packing groceries at a local supermarket.
Yes, we cheated and it was a disgrace to baseball. Yes we got lenient puncishment. And yes I think it was a big deal. But fans use the scandal as a way to put down the current astros team because their jealous their team cant win while the astros can(fairly as they did in 2022.) Also, if all players who cheated should be packing groceries, I hate to break it to u but alot of other players would be to.
So close, You almost made 100% sense until you say others cheated. Thats not what we are talking about and has nothing to do with the Astros and what they did. But I agree with everything else you said. Disgrace, 2022 counts, and 2024 is to come and now with hader, pretty exciting for the Astros.
Correct, it has nothing to do with astros but it has to do witth the fact you said players should be banned from baseball…
Yordan – Ummm …. Cora wasn’t suspended for 2018 with the Red Sox, he was suspended for 2017 with the Astros.
MLB found Cora to be “innocent” of any wrongdoing in 2018.
it was a combination of involement in both 2017n in 2018 actually…
Cora is the #1 person that should be banned for life.
And I have never overeaten Fever….
Get your facts straight
Cora was suspended for what he did in Houston not Boston
Fever: Thanks. Despite months of investigation, MLB failed to document a single instance of cheating by the 2018 Red Sox. Their conclusion of cheating “on at least some occasions” was clearly based on speculation, not evidence. In fact, MLB said in their report that they have a “factual dispute”. If there were any evidence, the facts would not be in dispute.
AirYordan: You need to read MLB’s report on the 2018 Red Sox which is still available on mlb.com. Cora was not found guilty of anything related to the 2018 Red Sox.
Shoeless Joe Jackson – Debatable
Houston Astros – Totally and unmistakably convicted of CHEATING!
JUST THE FACTS MAM.
@CC sure, but what about 2022???
Back to the point, what a big move by the Astros. Wasn’t expecting them to be going for a closer, but damn, that is one dominant bullpen. No matter the damage the cheating scandal of 2017 brought (and yes, I agree the players should have been penalized more, blame the union for that one), this is one well-run organization. Wish the Blue Jays were run as well as the Astros/Braves/Dodgers
Yankees Red Sox and Dodgers were caught but MLB would never come down on the Dodgers and Yankees. It’s all about money.
Haha. He and Beltran were the instigators.
He and Beltran
Sorry Thomas that’s not true. Those teams weren’t caught doing any cheating. Red Sox was inconclusive and the other two have no evidence other than bitter players and fans.
suit – You’re welcome.
I can’t remember your explanation as to why JT Watkins was suspended by MLB for a 2018 sign stealing scandal that you say didn’t exist, but let’s keep the discussion on Hader and the Astros please.
So you proof is that some people said that other people did some things…………….with zero proof?
LOLOLOLOL
Do post the evidence of the Dodgers being caught?
Giolito played for every team in 2017? That’s gotta be some kind of record.
Hinch wasn;t either, it was bc he was manager. I believe it was combination and because he was the manager of the 2018 red sox he was suspended a year.
No, but he played almost all the teams…
Hell yeah, he can bang a TRADH…
wait….
huh?
HAHAHAAAAHA LOL
Curly, all that comes to mind everytime I hear these jokes is the song: “Bangin on a trash can” from the 90’s show “Doug.”
i love fans like u cuz i get pissed when people make those stupid jokes and yall make it funny
Hader doesn’t bang on Trtadh cans, But he does do a ton of different bird calls so when he’s in the bullpen stealing signs it’s all good. Well worth 100 million! Thumbs up.
Trumbo, stop changing your icons, I’m so lost, I’m so alone in this digital world…
Trumbo – I prefer a slight change to the words of a song, ‘we don’t want to work, just want to bang on trash cans all game…’
I will, scouts honor. You can thank Clip for talking about pizza and pizza rolls for 3 days straight.
Like when he does a Blue Jay it’s a fastball. Unless they’re playing the Blue jays then it’s a Cardinal. And when they’re playing the Cardinals it’s an Oriole. Unless they’re playing the Giants. Then it’s Fee -Fi Fo Fum, Crap this is already getting confusing.
I was partial to TrumboJumbo personally.
Now that guy was a good fella! His spirit lives on through me, I assure you.
Trumbo, are you cheatin” on me?
I’m devasted…
I thought you only…well, you know, understood my opinions to be Godlike, was I wrong?
Curly, You have been deified in my book since day 1! I’m sad you would lose faith in one of your disciples! Everytime I see JT’s mug on TV or online I still think of you!
Curly – These days you can’t expect anyone to type 8 whole words without getting at least one of them wrong.
These days you are supposed to type as fast as you can, not look at what you’re typing, and post it without reviewing it.
God Bless the internet!
@Fever Pitch Guy, keyboard cowboys or cowards, take your pick
lmao
AirJordan: I appreciate your honesty.
@UncleMike Is that true about the birdcalls or are you just yanking our (my) chain?
GASox – For a second there I thought you were gonna talk about Money For Nothing. Haha!
Ignorant- I am George Washington. Everyone knows everything I post here is a fact. I cannot tell a lie.
Derp
Hader isn’t gonna make up for losing 5 pitchers from the bullpen.
All-in move if I’ve ever seen one.
1 more season before a sell-off is undertaken.
$3M from the 2nd tax threshold, the loss of their second pick, the loss of $500K from the next international signing class hurts the attempt to rebuild one of baseball’s worst farm systems.
They have to sell-off at some point because Crane isn’t going to spend ridiculous sums of money buying the FA talent they will need to remain competitive without a farm system.
If they don’t extend Altuve this offseason that will do it. Rebuild ahead. They can trade Hader who won’t want to be a part of a rebuild.
5 years for a reliever is definitely past what I’d like to do but they managed to keep it just under $100MM.
Abreu, Pressly, and Hader is a nice backend
It’s no Vida Guerra, but still a pretty nice back end.
JLo’s back end gets my vote
Nice choices. For my Dynasty Team I’m going Mika LaFuente.
A Rod wouldn’t appreciate this comment.
Curly – Baseball needs to implement a halftime show, just so they can have JLo & Shakira do it again.
Fever – I can pass on JLo, just give Shakira extra time
He absolutely wouldn’t
GASox – Lexy has entered the conversation.
youtube.com/watch?v=sWRCODd0OBQ
youtu.be/AaYmOu2DKP8?si=e8smz92EowG3_d1r
U should see my BFs backend.
At first glance I thought you said backhand. I was about to console you, Tacoshells.
Until someone gets injured. Relievers are fragile in this game and I’m surprised Hader has been healthy.
That is a lot for a reliever. He is one of the best but it seems often with relievers the cart is before the horse
He would be far better as a (6th 7th) 2 inning set up workhorse.
No he wouldn’t. Which is why padres and brewers got burned on him being a multi inning closer(4+ outs) last couple years.
Hader is an elite arm but can be wild sometimes and definitely is past the point of multiple inning scenarios. Probably because longer he pitches more chance he gets wild throwing 100 around.
A lot of money for a guy that will work 1 inning but it’s an important position so we will see if astros get their money worth.
He is not a workhorse. He doesn’t want to pitch in non-save situations and you will be lucky if he pitches more than 2 consecutive games. That said good on his agent for getting a deal this high.
James – He pitches 64 innings a year, I’d be very happy with that if he was on my team.
Fever – no he doesn’t per FG. 54 and 50 each of last 2 years.
He hasn’t pitched more than 1 inning per game average since 2019.
He never pitched in 3 consecutive games. Refused to do so even when the Padres were in the hunt for a playoff spot in September.
I can’t recall a good/great mlb player that padres fans could care less if they returned more than Hader. Especially someone that received a qualifying offer and not some 3rd tier big leaguer.
Not surprising after his Bs comments during the last week of the season were he said what’s the point in pitching more than 3 outs acting like the team was already eliminated when that wasn’t the case. It was at that moment when no SD fan gave two schits if he ever played for the team again.
Thanks for striking out the side to end the Dodgers ’22 seasin but could care less that he is no longer a Padre. Losing Snell will hurt, but could care less that Hader will be elsewhere. Good riddance indeed.
Happy for the pick!
The owner made this move. The baseball guys in Houston don’t hand out these landmine contracts.
Think u may be right, doesn’t seem like it fits there organizational blueprint n this owner occasionnally calls the shots.
“Ocassionally calls the shots”…The owners ALWAYS call the shots although some of them do it less publicly than others. Some of them prefer to exercise their authority in the background and let their GMs take all the
public spears, slings and arrows.
Houston was losing ground to Texas. They needed something to improve the team.
Personally, I don’t support that kind of thinking. Trust the process. The Astros have been elite for a long time in part because they have avoided these kinds of contracts. I wouldn’t blow up the plan because of one season.
Don – He’s young and elite, how is this any different than the $164M contract they gave Altuve? Except Hader got less dollars and less years.
That’s why the thought of extending Bregman scares me. Altuve I can get, he’s a franchise icon and I’d like to see him stay. But Bregman isn’t worth the $30 million per year that he’s going to ask for.
CKC, hopefully Houston thinks just like you do about Bergman next off-season. My Tigers need to sign him. And I already know they won’t. In fact, as of now, I think he’ll resign with Houston. If not be extended by opening day.
Exactly, they have a blueprint that’s been incredibly successful n Hader signing goes completely against that WS championship path. Don’t recklessly throw crazy money @FAs especially Ps.
Texas now needs to grab monty.
This is correct. Crane wanted Hader at the trade deadline last year. The FO baseball nerds optimize everything else around the owner’s big acquisitions – so far it’s a formula that has worked fairly well.
Crane or Bagwell
Exactly! It was also Crane’s idea to give a three year contract to Rafael Montero last season … he likely pulled this out of his tukas recently and I bet Dana Brown was surprised to be given the money to outbid themselves for Hader. The fact this all happened so quickly makes me believe nobody else was bidding for him.
Perfect use up your payroll and pay the tax in trash cleanup.
Wow. Astros are doing a good job of extending their window.
Yeah, this is the worst contract of the off-season.
So far.
Only because it isn’t your team doing it. I’d argue a 12 year deal to a pitcher that has yet to face major leaguers is much worse.
Technically YY has faced major leaguers. WBC being one of those instances.
I’m not a Dodgers or Astros fan but as an objective bystander the Yamamoto contract seems way worse. 12 years and over $300 million for a complete unknown.
“Complete unknown”…Yamamoto is a somewhat unknown in that he’s never before pitched in MLB, but he did dominate the 2nd best baseball league in the world for several years winning all their major pitching awards so I don’t think he’s a “complete unknown”. I’m not arguing that Yamamoto isn’t a risk, but arguing there is a strong basis to think he’ll be pretty darn good in MLB based on his pitching pedigree from Japan.
But for every Ohtani or Darvish there have been DiceK type pitchers. Good, not great. A weak staff ace or strong 2. Definitely not worthy of getting the largest pitching contract of all time. Not my money, not my team, not my problem though.
mlb fan, yep, precisely!
With all of the technology these days, being able to track spin rates, horizontal and lateral movement, etc, YoYam is projectable to other successful MLB pitchers based on the data, pair that with his Asian dominance, that’s why he got paid as a 25 year old.
Disagree, Yamamoto is you get then almost all of the other pitchers that get posted. He had also completely dominated the league. He isn’t just a good pitcher he is one of the absolute best pitchers over there. I have heard a single scout has any hesitation or concerns about his game transferring
This.
Stop living in the past. Sure, he hasn’t pitched in the majors but the Japan League is the next best league in the world outside MLB. Also, multiple teams were offering YY that contract. I bet no one came close to this for a closer.
Why is everyone saying hader’s contract is bad. He literally is a insane closer which makes the bullpen unstoppable. YY is getting a crazy amount of money, big risk wouldnt even compare the contracts.
Look at a top relievers list from 2018. Most are out of the league or not elite anymore. Hader was actually great in 2018, so you’re expecting him to be elite 10 years with the contract the Astros just gave him. That’s just not gonna happen unless you think Hader is a Mariano Rivera / Trevor Hoffmann type reliever, which I don’t think he is since he’s a velocity dependent reliever.
@air
Exhibit A: Edwin Diaz.
He got hurt before he’d even played a single game into his new contract. Lots of risk signing any reliever for this much money.
And on a side note, nobody knows how good he is at banging trash cans yet.
Because there are a lot of very good/elite relievers in MLB. A lot of them only making a couple million a year.
Really? What great bullpen guys are only making a few million a year as a free agent? Any elite reliever is getting 10
Million a year now.
We stopped using garbaage cans in the middle of 2017, if he signed with the yankees, knowing if he knows how to stare at the first base coach would probably be funnier even though both are extrenly stupid jokes but it would still be better bc that happened last year while we used trash cans 7 years ago…
Bet you’re an AL team fan who has never had to watch Hader mow down your guys in the 9th inning of a one run game. The guy is a machine and a buzz-saw, and essentially unhittable by lefties. Great signing.
Yeah, as a Cards fan I’ve seen many games where we were 1 run down to the Brewers late and knew it was over because Hader was coming in.
He has struggled 2 of the last 4 seasons. People have seriously overvalued in this comment section.
He struggled” 2 years ago while
Still saving 90 percent of his games. When else did he struggle?
And he still had a better save percentage In 2022 with an era over 5 than he did with a low 1 era last year.
I agree. There’s a reason this is the “largest contract for a relief pitcher in terms of present-day value”. No other team has invested in relief pitching at this level.
As an Astros fan, you’re probably going to argue he’s worth it. I disagree with that assessment. Years 30-35 is rarely the pinnacle of a players career, esp a reliever. Paying for 30s and expecting 20s performance is never a good strategy. Yes Mo is an outlier.
Sooo, the Astros make this move but they *aren’t* trying to buy another championship, but when other markets sign a FA, they are….? Hmmmm.
Interesting how the hypocrisy is worn when viewed from a personally beneficial perspective….
It is a good move, imo, for the Astros because Hader will only help that team.
The Astros finally made a move to at least try to keep with the rest of the AL.
Hey goastros, I hope you’re doing well. I think this will be good acquisition for you. Good luck to you this year.
I’m doing great! Got a job and got promoted in the past. Good luck to you as well. Enjoy your time seeing Soto in a Yankees uniform.
Hey, man, congratulations! I can see just by talking with you here on the boards why you’d be successful (kind, level-headed, etc). Great to hear, man, I’m happy for you.
Thanks!
Wow I was totally not expecting this! I just finished reading the article saying he might go to Houston and I thought naa not going to happen!!
Me neither. After the Valdez trade rumors earlier in the offseason, I assumed they were going to be unloading assets or just roll with what they got.
Pivoted to him after learning about the Matt Carpenter signing.
Best comment of the day!
So $95 million spent and they still need a carpenter.
They missed out on the mustache and went with the next best thing. They were determined to get a 2023 Padre.
Now extend Altuve!!
Also, I hope Presley is ok with the 7th inning.
$102 for Diaz last year. I’m surprised he went under. Figured he’d match it at least. $100MM for a reliever is a no go for me but the Astros are certainly better with him.
That bullpen was looking questionable but with the 3 they have at the backend now—looks pretty good.
Guessing this will be Pressly’s last contract received from Hou.
Tell me you didn’t read the article without telling me you didn’t read the article.
@jeremy
Article was about a paragraph long when I commented. They edit round here
Maybe he didn’t like the feel of the market, meaning he didn’t see any team willing to go higher. Also, Houston has been a top contender now for a decade. He may value that compared to trying to squeeze another $7MM out of a team.
Frankly, it could be a sign that teams are holding firm. That may impact Boras and his clients soon. He may not be able to out-wait the market this time for the absolute highest price. As I mentioned in a prior thread. The Yankees immediately pivoting to Stroman after Boras rejected their offer for Snell could be a warning sign.
$19 mil aav vs $18.7 mil aav for diaz. read the article. $95 >$93
Sure. Can’t read what wasn’t on the page at the time, Claude!
So much for the Astros being “broke.”
The back of that bullpen is filthy.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSIR
There goes the AL West.
We need to start signing people ASAP.
I know we destroy lefties, but this requires drastic measures!
CY is still drunk from the parade I fear. Why get a starter or a dominate bullpen arm when you can sign people who won’t even pitch till the second half and a bunch of scrubs
He is the dumbest Princeton graduate ever. He wasted all this money on Mahle and did nothing except get Yates. He doesn’t trade unless he has to. He overpaid for Gray and prone Semien. He could have traded for a starter last offseason but choose to sign Heaney and Eovaldi instead of just 1. Now, there is no cap room, but they do have a dozen 2nd half starters. He did nothing for the BP last offseason and this offseason too. He got Smith and traded for Chapman and Stratton, but that wasn’t nearly enough without thr tremendous luck Texas had in the playoffs.
You’d think that after winning the WS, it would… Idk maybe show him that spending helps win. I mean yea fine don’t go crazy and get ohtani but ffs what is he doing at this point… And to your rival as well. Just stupid. Frankly we got lucky last year not losing a playoff road game isn’t gonna happen again.
put some respect on CY’s name.
Short-term, that all worked out well for the Rangers, but I don’t know if their rotation can hold up long-term.
Leiter, Porter, Rocker, and Owen White can hopefully produce a > 90th percentile guy and a > 65th percentile guy from the farm system. All 4 have been top 100 prospects, though Rocker was for a day.
Ms a top the Al west for sure. Harder is a bum.
Honestly that’s not bad. 5 years less than 100mil is not bad for a closer this dominant. It would be nice if he’d pitch more than one inning but in that pen he won’t need to anyway. Good fit for the Astros.
Except he isn’t that dominant. No idea why people keep insinuating he has dominated. When in fact he has actually struggled 2 of the last 4 seasons
“Edwin Díaz signed a $102.5MM deal with the Mets prior to last season”
AND THEEEEEN?
Then he turned back into Edlose Díaz.
Why?
Guy is 29 years old and has thrown less than 400 career innings. I wouldn’t be concerned about his durability.
Also, this is starting to become more of a trend with relievers getting better deals than starters. Starters only go 5-6 now, so instead of spending $30M a year for someone like Snell who is 5 innings x 20-30 starts, clubs would rather fill the pen with guys that can give them an inning and make an impact 3 days instead of a good/bad start every 5 days.
Technically, he’ll be 30 right at the beginning of the season but agree with the balance of what you said….with starters going less that 6 being a trend, bullpens are where the really successful teams are paying attention to……
I wanna cry ;-;
Abreu-Pressly-Hader in the 7th-8th-9th? astro games will end in the 6th inning I fear
They can’t pitch every day. What else do they have?
The thing that makes it a bad contract for Houston is that they didn’t need a closer. They already had a great one in Pressly. They needed innings. They got one.
Just imagine in the playoffs though. How many rallies can get shut down with them
Complete buzz saw after the 5th if Montero returns to ‘22 form. Looking ahead, they’ve secured a closer in advance of Pressly leaving in ‘25 or ‘26.
Graveman is a free agent in ‘25
Pressly is a free agent in ‘26 (mutual option in ‘25)
Montero is a free agent in ‘26
B. Abreu is a free agent in ‘27
Huge piece for HOU
Woulda loved to of seen em shutn dwn end of Dodger gms but not @that costs. How much did he help Pads last season ? Glad it was stros.
Hader was swell when he was willing to pitch.
Operative caveat.
I can understand him protecting his payday. His cute little “Are we in a playoff race?” rhetorical question that he somehow intended to be answered “no” when the answer was still “yes”, that part was pretty lame-o.
If he had just flat out admitted his payday was still his first priority over the team’s playoff chances, I could respect the honesty.
Agree, that comment he made was maddening.
He’ll be Mitch Williams in a couple years.
Shut down Mitch, or Rick “Wild Thing” Vaughn, Mitch?
Way to go rangers. The one freaking need on this team and you’ve done NOTHING about it. No bullpen or starters, pat yourself on the back CY cause we are gonna lose this division I call it now
Wow! Only been a few years, and already you’re feeling entitled. Haven’t they spent enough money for you? Maybe you should refuse to renew the season tickets on your suite.
I’m not asking them to be the dodgers. You don’t wanna pay ohtani and all the Japanese stars fine. But this team came into the season 3 needs. Starter, dynamic bullpen arms replace the DH. He’s done 0/3. He signed a starterx wait for it – that won’t even be ready till mid season, you can’t just start the year in July.
He’s signed 0 impact bullpen arms. And oh yea the dh wasn’t addressed either. Do they need to be the dodgers or Yankees, not necessarily – but they won last year because we got EXTREMELY lucky. We limped into the playoffs and this year the team is worse off than last year. So yea. You kinda have to spend. And to let Hader go to a division rival – one that routinely beats us, when he would have filled 1/3needs…borderline unacceptable
You’re going to lose the division but not to the Astros, don’t worry about them.
Passan always get the Boras news. Funny how that works. Passan bitches about how little the players make to do the media work. Boras gets them the money. Passan gets the ink.
Nice deal that have going there
Hader isn’t a boras client
article says CAA
Perhaps now Hader will be willing to pitch on a third consecutive day, if so summoned. Maybe even for more than three innings every now and then.
With the back end of Houston BP he likely won’t need to (at least this year). Going to be tough after the 6th to beat Houston.
Fair point. The depth issues on the 2023 Padres did no one any favors.
That’s the crux right there, the Astros have to be -ahead- in order for Hader to be useful. Have fun with a 19million dollar mop-up man. Crane should leave the baseball decisions to the baseball people.
Grats stros.
It’s a steal compared to what relievers and guys like Kyle Gibson/Jordan Lyles/Severino are getting.
It is a silly reliever market.
Not upset the rangers didn’t get him but upset the astros did. The guys stuff is good. Very hard to prep for given his erratic control. Should be a blast seeing him in the 9th against the rangers. Woo.
Nah I’m pissed at CY. He’s letting everyone go elsewhere. Why sign starters or a dominate bullpen arm when you can sign scrubs and people that won’t even pitch the first half of the year. Oh yea and you lost the DH too. He hasn’t done ANYTHING since we won.
Just an observer of the situation and fan of CY and his time here in SD- it has all appearances that he’s been told to do nothing, outside of trivial roster trim. Not sure, and I could be a wrong, but CY is neither an iconoclastic shut-in nor inept. He’s just… following orders???
Perhaps.
Rangers will be fine come postseason. Roster looks a little rough right now but langford will have a whole season under his belt at DH, and they’ve got 3/5 of their rotation coming back midseason. 4/5 if they get kershaw.
No, Bryan Woo pitches for the Mariners.
I’m surprised he didn’t get more than Diaz. While I would’ve loved Hader on my team, and it’s not my money, I still think paying premium for a closer is a mistake.
Relievers in the Hader mold are somewhat fragile and can decline extremely quickly. Remember how fast Dellin Betances went from ultra high leverage Yankees reliever to out of baseball?
I’m an Astros fan, and I’m already regretting this signing. Looks fantastic on paper, but it won’t age well.
I guessing 2-3 good years.
I disagree. This is a great move for you guys. You have a team that’s still in win now mode. You won’t have verlander much longer or altuve in his prime. Even if hader have you 3
Good years and you won another championship it’s worth it.
I wonder if Ohtani would work better as a closer when he starts pitching again. Less wear on his arm and maybe he doesn’t have to have a 3rd surgery? If he starts the game at DH they would probably have to create another rule for him to come in as a Pitcher. I am probably just talking crazy here..
@Trumbo I don’t think crazy at all. He might be lights out closer, and the Dodgers don’t have a completely fantastic bullpen. I think they’ll try him as starter first, but your idea will gain consideration quickly if he has any problems health wise. It worked pretty well for Smoltz.
Thanks homeslice I feel better now haha.
I don’t know how they would handle the whole “warming up to pitch the 9th” scenario. Do you take Ohtani out of the game in the 8th inning to warm up to close? What if his spot is due up in the bottom of the 8th ?? What if he’s warming up to close out the game and the pitcher ahead of him gives up a 3-run homerun so it’s no longer a save situation but you’ve already taken him out of the game and his batting spot in the lineup is up next inning?? What about the wear and tear on an arm that needs to throw every pitch at 110% effort as a closer? What about the wear and tear on a guy who has to warm up to pitch at 110%, maybe on multiple days, and then not get used?? I don’t think it would be an ideal situation for him.
ISOB, you are totally correct and I have yet to hash that aspect of it out haha
It makes sense. He closed out the WBC.
Von, I had suppressed that memory but I guess now is as good a time as any for me to remember hah. Maybe it’s something that the Dodgers aren’t really discussing with him until further along in his recovery. No reason to screw with his head at this juncture hah.
Too rich for my blood. I know Hoyer would rather cut off his arm than pay that to a reliever.
No kidding, wow. I thought there was literally zero chance of the rumor yesterday coming to fruition. I can’t believe the Dodgers didn’t go 100/5 and get him, honestly. As good as their team is, their pitching is not bulletproof.
Wow, a great move for the Astros undoubtedly. Hader had a very rough 2022 but that certainly appears to be an aberration. Very surprising move. I’d like to see Jose Abreu get a ring, so I suppose I can be happy about this move.
Wow wow wow well well well! Never trust a GM
Lol yeah it 2022 better be an aberration for the Astros sake. I think the Astros were bidding against themselves. Nobody wanted to spend that much on this guy.
Bidding against themselves?
The orioles signed an older closer who is not nearly as good anymore for 12 million a year.
I’d rather have hader for 20 a year.
I like the Astros willing to go all in on next season considering Altuve, Bergman and Verlander are all potentially free agents next year, followed by an even larger class in 26.
Altuve isn’t going anywhere. Likely Tucker is starting too. Not sure on Bregman. Verlander likely retires
Smart teams are all calling Houston tomorrow to see if they need to unload a few million bucks for a non-roster prospect …
I was wrong in thinking he was nowhere close to signing, and I couldn’t be happier.
I LOVE WATCHING THE RANGER FANS CRY THIS IS AWESOME
Hopefully they don’t let him pitch in the 2026 WBC after signing that contract…
Another star with an agent not named Boras signs a nice deal. Good work Astros. Dear MLB, keep telling Boras to stuff it.
Wondering if they’re setting money aside for Tucker, Altuve, Bregman, Valdez…or this is just a move to eventually let Presley walk or perhaps even trade him.
This smells of ownership meddling. Surprising given Pressly’s production in the closer role that they’ll commit this money to someone who only wants the 9th inning. Definitely makes their late game bullpen very strong.
Seems like they’re gonna go for it this year before guys start hitting free agency next year. The next 2 years they have a lot of their roster hitting the market. Which makes this signing even more curious.
The red sox almost had him. They were only outbid by $90 million.
LOL!
Just heard on local sports talk that Hader has been known to refuse to pitch. Not sure how true. Lot’s of coin for reliever. What are they going to do with their pending free agents?
Better them than NYY
No more saves for Pressly?
Maybe a few here and there, but in a word, no. Draft your fantasy team accordingly.
Wow, did not see this coming. I am not an Astro fan but I thought they would resign Bergman first or extend Tucker.
Even when you have a strong bullpen, as they did before signing Hader, it is a good thing when you can make it better.
Wow, i mean Hader is a bonafide stud, but 5 years. Big risk, big reward
Of course no deferrals, that’s a dodgers thing
I really hope this opens the flood gates. I’d give it about a 5% chance of happening.
Being a closer is where it’s at..:
That’s why Hader only wants to pitch 9th innings. He didn’t get paid 1st time through with multiple immaculate innings I believe under his belt or 3IP 0hit innings. So in went his request not long after.
Astros in free agency:
We not gonna do anything crazy just gonna buy some lowkey bullpen arms, nothing crazy
F IT MR. HADER WHATS UR PRICE TAG
Now if they would just figure out a way to secure someone to play OF over Meyers.
ikr, never liked meyers from the day he debuted
They have, his name is McCormick. It is beyond my understanding why Meyers keeps getting these opportunities.
Dana Brown has said that McCormick will play every day, but most likely in left field so Myers can play CF.
Wouldn’t Bellinger be a great fit? He can also play first base to spell Abreu. Cody bats left-handed which would fill the Brantley void.
It really makes a lot of sense except that Bellinger is asking for too much $ for injury prone inconsistent player.
Bellinger is poison to the Astros. He would not be welcome.
Talent is always welcome. Lol. Don’t worry, it’s not gonna happen. It was just speculation that it would be a good fit talent-wise
Akitas,
More like the other way around. He specifically called them out for what they did. Enough $ can often change things, but I don’t see it happening.
I think Bellinger is a bad investment really. I think he still has to prove himself. One bounce back year isn’t enough to invest a long-term contract. It’s been reported on this site that he’s seeking 200 million, which to me is laughable.
@mute button I agree. I just feel like his contract will be very bad, very quickly.
This is because the Astros are smart and the Angels are idiots.
Guy’s already in decline the past few years. This contract will look ugly by the end. Can’t believe the analytics guys had any say in this decision.
One bad year, two years ago. Hader was decent on grossly underachieving Padres team last year
What bad year was that? The year he was going through personal stuff and had a poor 20 innings?
His pitcher list page is solid red, including #2 in hard hit percentage. He allows a lot of fly balls, but if the opposing team doesn’t hit the ball hard, those are the easiest outs in the world.
I’m an Angel fan….I hope he stinks, but there are no indications he will.
@Halo11Fan
I explained it in the other thread about the rumor he signs with the Astros.
He’s not even 30, and has had one bad season. Players don’t usually do great for 5 straight years, but I like Hader’s chances for the most if not all of the contract, expiring in his age 34 season.
Hader got his bag and edged out Edwin Diaz’s contract by 2 million dollars, so Boras can proclaim he hot his client the biggest bag possible so they both win. Did not expect the Astros to pull the trigger on a contract like this and for 5 years, but the Rangers aren’t going anywhere, and the Mariners will still be competitive. Angels will be the Angels, and the Athletics are on a mission to lose even more games in 2024.
The article says he is a client of CAA not Boras.
That you are right. Well now I feel silly thank you.
acoss, don’t worry buddy. That happens to me like once a week on here.
Thanks Trumbo! Hey at least we own up to it lol
Hope you started a trend ( owing up ), the world could use a lil integrity boost across13!
Good deal for Hader doesn’t have to pay state tax on the contract unlike California.
@desertdawg
Should never need to pay tax. Tax should be voluntary.
OY
“Tax should be voluntary.”
Why stop at tax? Paying for anything should be voluntary.
Because taxation is theft
@filihok
Paying for something is paying for the product or service that you voluntarily decided to purchase from someone in return for their services. If I want to drive on a toll road, I pay to use that road and the owner maintains it so they get more customers wanting to use it. It’s a pretty easy concept that government doesn’t seem to understand.
OY
“Paying for something is paying for the product or service that you voluntarily decided to purchase from someone in return for their services. If I want to drive on a toll road, I pay to use that road and the owner maintains it so they get more customers wanting to use it. It’s a pretty easy concept that government doesn’t seem to understand.”
I think they understand it perfectly fine.
The “tax is theft” dolts who yell about how great ‘Murica is, and don’t want to pay to be part of or help it continue to be…well…decent at least, they are a problem.
jjd002
”
Because taxation is theft”
Dumb
Old York,
I guess you always have the option of not paying taxes and not using things financed by taxes. Inconvenient as it might be to do so.
Is there a country/modern society on earth that has no form of taxation whatsoever?
I think most of us would feel much taxation stuff can be far from perfect, but if I don’t chip in for public things I sometimes don’t really want or feel like paying for, but you do, and vice versa, then many of the large things taxes finance wouldn’t exist. You silly goose.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate to see gov’t waste, corruption, grift etc., but conceptually, taxation is not unreasonable.
Not dumb at all. How is income tax not theft? You have to pay the government a certain amount of income – if you don’t it is jail time (unless you are rich).
I don’t have a problem with sales tax. I could even tolerate a flat tax. what our current tax code is – is legalized theft.
The current tax code is unreasonable. It is anything but fair and we are way overtaxed.
Serious problems w/ HR allowed in 2019, 2020, and 2022. BB rate close to 5.0 in 2023.
Still, for an Astros team with a solid shot every year at the postseason, the back of their bullpen is now the best in the game.
Oh, the perverse idiocy of right-libertarian bromides.
The superrich adore your repetition of the slogan reverse-engineered to justify unfettered acumulation as the primary right among all rights.
This is a baseball site, bro.
jjd
“The current tax code is unreasonable. It is anything but fair and we are way overtaxed.”
This is a lot more mature statement than the dumb “tax is theft”
How about you live in England where tax in 80% or Germany where it is 55% be happy were you are or go live in one of these country’s.
Re Redwood
“How about you live in England where tax in 80% or Germany where it is 55% be happy were you are or go live in one of these country’s.”
You seem to hate what America is supposed to stand for (freedom, democracy, free speech and exchange of ideas), so maybe you would be happier elsewhere.
I travel extensively – currently doing a 1-year trip.
Typically, the countries with higher taxes are favorable to those with lower taxes.
Also, citation for your quoted tax rates
Good for you 1 whole year traveling, I did 24 years in the military living All over the world. I got to see and live in many different country’s all over the world along side locals. You should be great full where you live instead of complaining like a small child your showing everyone what a low IQ you have.
RW
“You should be great full [sic] where you live ”
What did I comment that you interpreted as not being grateful? Please be specific.
But being grateful doesn’t strip me of the right to criticize the things that are obviously in need of improvement,
“I did 24 years in the military”
So, you lived off of other people’s tax money? Does that make you a thief? Do you think taxes are theft?
Houston has interest in winning. They saw a weakness, addressed it appropriately and will once again be a top team, because they expect to compete and will bring in pieces to do just that.
I’d be so pissed if I was pressley. Guy has been one of the best for years and now is pretty much being replaced
Who thinks pressly will be traded
Not me.. Pressly is a team first kind of guy and he will do whatever the team needs to be successful.
If I’m the Yankees, I now offer Snell 3/$35M per for $105M and see if that gets his tongue wagging. Snell and Stroman together would equal what they offered Yammamoto anyway. If I can roll out Cole, Snell, Stroman, Rodon and Schmidt with their BP? Yeah, I’m good with that.
I have a serious question for all yankee fans and possibly all yankee haters. Why would the yankees offer yamamoto three hundred million But they won’t offer Blake 200 million and Josh. One hundred million two pitchers for the price of one. Two quality arms I may add
Great point. I was just gonna say something similar. We can give a number 3 guy almost 20 million a year but not the best closer in baseball?
Now we can keep wondering why we don’t beat the Astros. No excuse not to over this guy 5 years 100
Million.
I’m so tired of Hal acting like he’s all in only to see crap like this happen.
I’m assuming it wouldn’t matter how much unless it broke all records for Hader to shave or cut his hair.
Keep in mind no state taxes. More money in his pocket, don’t have to put up with New York and their fans. Or just wants to live in Texas away from the crazy’s
mlbnyfan
“I have a serious question for all yankee fans and possibly all yankee haters. Why would the yankees offer yamamoto three hundred million But they won’t offer Blake 200 million and Josh. One hundred million two pitchers for the price of one.”
I’m neither a Yankee fan nor a Yankee heater, but I’ll answer anyway
Because total contract value isn’t the right way to look at it (Present Value and AAV are much better)
Spending $300 million over ten years is different than spending $300 million over 5 years.
@Viveleempireevil
Because Snell only goes 5 innings at most. Now you need 3 or 4 guys to get you the rest of the way. Why spend so much on someone like that?
OY
“Because Snell only goes 5 innings at most. Now you need 3 or 4 guys to get you the rest of the way. Why spend so much on someone like that?”
That answer is almost as bad as the question
How many innings a pitcher pitches is PART of the equation, not all of it.
I’d certainly pay up for a pitcher who could give me 5 scoreless innings at a wack. 150 innings a year with 0 runs should get some wins
That would be the greatest pitcher of all time
I’d pay a lot more for that than someone giving me 7 innings and 3 runs allowed.
5 innings a start means your bullpen is getting destroyed over a full season. I would be interested to see bullpen health on teams who consistently don’t get 6 innings a start out of their rotation
mb
“5 innings a start means your bullpen is getting destroyed over a full season. I would be interested to see bullpen health on teams who consistently don’t get 6 innings a start out of their rotation”
Amazing, and by “amazing, I mean “pathetic”. Amazing that someone starts out making a definitive statement “5 innings a start means your bullpen is getting destroyed over a full season.” and then immediately follows that up by saying they have no idea if that is true or not, they are just guessing, because they have seen the data ” I would be interested to see bullpen health on teams who consistently don’t get 6 innings a start out of their rotation”
Maybe look at the data first, and THEN come to a conclusion.
Careful, you will all be called entitled babies for wanting the Yankees to make *any* move, after they bring to your attention the Yankees buy everyone and anyone despite over a decade of contradictory proof.
You’re just supposed to shut up and be thankful you are losing with a $300MM payroll team…..
@Yankee Clipper
Yankees dropped the ball this offseason. Should have signed Ohtani, Yamamoto, Snell, Hader, Chapman, Bellinger, Nola and Mongomery. They let the Dodgers take away their Evil Empire moniker, too. Now they’re just the Failed Empire.
Old York: that’s supposed to be…….new? They’ve failed since 2009 but when Yankees fans bring up wanting to improve, the anti-Yankee dummies go crazy. I have a very low tolerance for stupidity and they challenge it every day, jealous as they are.
@Yankee Clipper
I know it won’t happen but I’d like to see the Yankees start building some core group and up their game in the analytics department. I know they want to spend all the time but that ship has somewhat sailed with the luxury taxes. They’ve spent a lot of money but not wisely. I often hear how the Dodgers are Tampa Bay with money and the Yankees could be more like that but haven’t got to that point.
Old York: I completely agree. If you look at the most successful teams, including the dynastic Yankees of the 90s, it was a solid core of developed talent supplemented by a few FA signings that built a complete, deep roster.
Unfortunately, Cashman figured out that he can do what he does and just make the playoffs, which is what their goal really is. Admittedly, that’s not bad, compared to many teams, but it’s also not the way to build a deep-run playoff team.
Analytics is perhaps the Yankees biggest failure. Or maybe it’s the implementation or translation of their analytics.
Players don’t want to go to New York
Clip, of course they buy everyone. You saw how they bought up Yoshi and Shohei like they were merely snacks. They then traded for Cease and sent 50 mil in cash as a sweetener, and then they paid $250mil each for Snell and Monty. Wait…None of that has happened. And the Yanks haven’t won a WS in 15 years. How could anyone accuse the Yanks of “buying championships?” Better yet, how can anyone accuse ANY team of buying championships? Did the Dodgers buy one recently? Did the Mets buy one last year?? There is no such thing!
Haha! You sure know how to lighten me up Trumbo… the yin to my yang buddy!
If the Yankees sign Snell, would they make him shave his signature flavor savor/soul patch?
Knowing Cashman, yes. I personally don’t have an issue with that or his goatee, honestly. They could even implement a groomed facial hair policy if they don’t like the disheveled or woodsman looks.
I’ll hate this deal the first couple years while the Astros are likely still an 85-95 win team. It might not look so pretty the last few years when he’s taking up such a large chunk of payroll and they have to continue to replicate the previous player development success they’ve had, though.
85 wins? Lol
You obviously meant 95-105. Just a typo I guess. They get an additional 10 wins just because Crusty Baker is gone.
Welp. Did they need him, per se? Nope. As their gm said days ago they wouldn’t be shopping high end. They have freaking Pressly already, but that’s what good teams do. They make ’em better.
I love how they gotta add “no deferrals” in every huge contracts nowadays..thanks Dodgers and Shohei, started a new trend! Surprised the Pirates, A’s, and Rays didn’t catch on yet..
That’s not why it’s there…
I’m absolutely shocked. Happy, but certainly shocked. Go ‘stros!!
Wow. Good for them. I mean, F them for 2017. And I hope they finish last. But good for them.
Well…..i’m eating a healthy dose of crow
It was the Astros who traded hader to the Brewers
Yep
Possibly worse trade ever made by Astros team, ranks up there with Joe Morgan trade. By the way Morgan wouldn’t be in the Hall of Fame if he stayed with the Astros.
Farhan still waiting to hear the magic words — attention K-Mart shopper, blue light special on the waiver wire….
They had no need in Hader though.
If you were true to your moniker you would know.
Their staff, minus Webb, is incapable of throwing more than five innings. They need a quality pen to give Doval a chance to save the game. Hader would have given them a one-two punch. The Rogers twins are 7th inning, at best, relievers.
Two fold, Great pitcher and keep’s him away from Rangers and Yankees
Mariano was a sure thing as a closer, the rest, no so much! This could backfire on Houston!
Hader is a future Hall of Famer. His career has been super good.
Until he blows his arm out and needs TJ
Red Sox asleep again! I think there full throttle is broken. Bring back Dave Dombrowski
$19M for a close when we already have Jansen?
So you’d rather have a second closer that a #4 and #5 SP?
You like having no farm system I guess, huh?
$400,000 per inning
Why did he have to go there, of all places? I hate those damn Trashtros.
Astros had a better road record so continuing to whine about the trashcan scabs scandal is tenuous at best and I love the Yankees
Is it cuz we kick your a** every time we play you?
More because you have a bunch of cheating players and staff who never got properly punished. They cost us 2017.
Um, with all due respect, the Yankees stole signs using Apple watches. As did the Red Sox.
Not to mention, A Rod, Cano, Pettite, Cervelli, Melky Cabrera, and good know who else cheated on 2009 and you don’t seem to think the Yankees deserve to get that championship with an asterisk
Be careful, you’re starting to sound more like a troll than a fan. Everyone was on ‘roids in that era, so if you give an asterisk for one championship, you give them for all. Can’t exactly say that it was an uneven playing field with so many players using, either.
You don’t need to decide if I’m a Yankee fan or not. I’m a die hard Yankee fan until for life. You’re just offended because I can call out my own team for other fans’ blatant hypocrisy. Also, you’re very very wrong by claiming 2009 was the steroid era. Do some research because the steroid era was 1998 to 2003
Number one, their was a report that came out against the yankees saying they cheated, just gonna put that out there. Number 2, we didnt cheat in the playoffs, only in the regular season . Number 3 even if we cheated against you in 2017, which we didnt, we beat you in 2015-fairly,2019-fairlay, 2022-fairlay
The trash can usage started in 2017, as per the investigation. There were several players who had significantly good stats thanks to the help. So yeah, the Astros did cheat.
@AirY0rdan, I’m a Yankee fan but I agree with you. The other guy is just salty because the Astros have whooped the Yankees a**es every single season going back almost 10 years. I love the Yankees but am not blinded by it to completely disregard or downplay their flaws. Astros may have cheated one year but doesn’t matter once you count in 2018, 2019, 2021, and 2022 when they won fair and square
Exactly my point
Yes but we didnt use it in playoffs so when we beat you in 2017 in the ALCS, we did it fairly, when we beat you in the Wild Card in 2015, we did it fairly, when we beat you in the ALCS in 2019, we did it fairly, when we beat you in the ALCS in 2022, we dit it fairly. So I get it, your jealous your team has not won us recently in the playoffs.
Yankees can’t beat anyone in the playoffs let alone the Astros lol
lol
Will this result in “Pressly has left the building” ? Expect Cards, Marlins & Tigers will check in…
I guess MLB Network got their wires crossed. Their ticker just said he signed with the Mets.
The league against the Dodgers… Let’s go!
Curious to see how this contract ages. 5 years for a 30 yr old reliever is a lot, but in the short term (1-2) this definitely a huge get for Houston.
If I’m the Astros I would definitely want there to be at leaat a buy out option. He’s likely going to regress in 3 years.
If he winds up being a setup guy to Pressly, this contract is complete and utter garbage!
Zero chance of that I think safe to say. Hader will close. Abreu, Pressly, Hader could be nasty 7th/8th/9th combo if healthy and all goes well, that’s for sure. May not seem as spectacular a move as some of the other big signings, but could make a very big difference.
Yes, but bear in mind those guys should not pitch more than 60 times and you want to win 100 games. So you hope your offense can give you some lopsided games along the way and also hope that starters can sometimes go 7 or even 8 innings. This is how you succeed in the postseason, by not burning out the bullpen.
“Sigh”
95 million reasons to cheat.
SOOOOOO glad the Padres didn’t resign him. $95 million and 5 years for the epitome of a me-first player.
The article says the closing combination of Pressly, Hader and Abreu will be scary. They got that right. I always worry when either Pressly or Hader is called upon to save a game. The only safe times to do that is if your team has a comfortable lead because both will give up runs. Abreu is pretty solid, though.
ns
“I always worry when either Pressly or Hader is called upon to save a game. The only safe times to do that is if your team has a comfortable lead because both will give up runs”
[NotSureIfSerious.jpeg
Luis Gonzalez and Bill Mueller say hi.
What are you drinking ?
The most sickening off-season in MLB history rages on, the two scumbag cheater teams of the league are the only ones interested in spending and winning and baseball is completely ruined by LA Houston and that clown Manfred. I hope people start tuning baseball out.
How is LA a scumbag cheater team?
You think those are the only two teams that have broken the rules? I can think of teams that weee actually caught recently being Atlanta, Boston, and New York. I’m sure they are plenty others and all 30 teams try to get an advantage.
Look at the Mets and Padres not even making the post season lmao. Houston has been legit for years the cheater thing doesnt work anymore.
“the cheater thing doesn’t work anymore.”
— Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, Raffi Palmero, the entire Black Sox team.
Another head where the Astros live rent free.
Hahaha, blaming the astros for doing good on what happened in 2017 is lowkey sad.
We’ll always have a place in our hearts for them beating Boston NY and LA in 2017 but everyone is sick of them by now.
Understandable. If I was a fan of a AL team I would be tired of them winning to.
pìss.
Now we just need an OF to put Meyers back on the bench. Wonder if Brown can afford it?
The Cubs really blew this opportunity! Their bullpen cost them a playoff spot last season, especially down the stretch and they have done nothing to change that this offseason. The Cubs especially lacked production from southpaws and they don’t get any better than Josh Hader.
Josh Hader is scary good. His delivery reminds me of Lincecum in his stellar SF days. I’m surprised Hader got less than 100m. He’s one of the most dominant closers in the game. I’d say he’s even better than Edwin Diaz
Probably took less for the no-trade clause.
One of the top 5 relievers in the game..good signing…you have to pay for pitching…
I have to say I’m sorry for what I’ve said about Crane spending money.
You and many others. You should all me ashamed of yourselves,
When he downplayed the desire to add a reliever I knew he was gonna sign one soon. This rhetoric becomes easy to read the more you see it over the years.
“Hader, who turns 30 this April, looked as dominant as ever in 2023, ranking second among qualified NL relievers with a 1.28 ERA”
2.69 FIP. The 1.1 WHIP is not prime Hader at all. He did limit HRs but that can be flaky for relievers from year to year.
He’s a very good reliever but IMO is overpaid now and his very best days are behind him.
MrM
“2.69 FIP. The 1.1 WHIP is not prime Hader at all. He did limit HRs but that can be flaky for relievers from year to year.”
You know what else is flaky for relievers? WHIP. Because BABIP
You know who hasn’t had a WHIP below 1.1 since 2021? Hader.
Until he can prove otherwise, he ain’t what he used to be. Prime Hader is a less than 1.00 / 0.8ish WHIP guy and he’d done that 5 years in a row through 2021.
BABIP isn’t enough to explain the big spike in WHIP. His walks have been up as well the past 2 seasons, and while still strong his Ks have been down.
mrm
“BABIP isn’t enough to explain the big spike in WHIP. His walks have been up as well the past 2 seasons, and while still strong his Ks have been down.”
This is why there is no point in citing WHIP. You’re going to need to look at BB%, K%, and BABIP anyway, so might as well just look at them first.
WHIP is too dependent on things out of the pitcher’s control
Throwing strikes is certainly in the pitcher’s control, and his walks have been up for 2 straight years now. And there is only so much “luck” to BABIP.
BB% up, K% down, 2 straight years. FIP tells you his 2023 ERA was deceptive.
MrM
“FIP tells you his 2023 ERA was deceptive.”
Sure
So, look at FIP (or, preferably, FIP-). No reason to ever look at WHIP
We will have to agree to disagree. Preventing baserunners is very much within a pitcher’s ability/control. “Luck”/BABIP is way overrated.
MrM
“Preventing baserunners is very much within a pitcher’s ability/control.”
It is. With some degree of luck
But, again, WHIP doesn’t help you with any of that. If you look at WHIP, you have to, immediately go look at BB%, K% and BABIP. So, just go look at those things and skip WHIP
So the underlying stats of WHIP are meaningful, but not WHIP?
Mmmkay.
MrM
“So the underlying stats of WHIP are meaningful, but not WHIP?”
Those aren’t they underlying stats of WHIP. Walks, hits and outs are.
Sure thing buddy. Are you an Astros fan?
You may find you have signed Chapman II, Yankee Edition.
MrM
“Are you an Astros fan?”
I am not
“Sure thing buddy”
I mean, literally Walks, Hits per Inning Pitched.
Those are the underlying stats.
I suppose you could say that walks, k’s and BABIP are the underlying stats for most every other stat. But that doesn’t,make any stats using them meaningful
Like: K%/BB% + BABIP*BB% has a bunch of meaningful, things as input, but it’s not meaningful
WHIP is kinda the same thing.
There are much better metrics to look at to tell you how a pitcher pitched.
WHIP would be more useful as a team stat since, you know, the defense plays a big part in WHIP
I love when guys like you bring up all these stats that don’t mean anything. Save that for your fantasy team.
A
Closers job is th save games. Who cares how
Many guys he puts on base when he gets the save
YF
“I love when guys like you bring up all these stats that don’t mean anything. Save that for your fantasy team.
A
Closers job is th save games. Who cares how
Many guys he puts on base when he gets the save”
Imagine being this intellectually uncurious
First, saves are a fantasy stat moreso than like K%
Second, if you want to know how well a player pitched, looking at stats that measure that makes more sense than looking at stats that don’t measure it. Saves, measure something, but it’s not how well a player pitched.
How do you pronounce BABIP? Is it bah-bip or bay-bip?
Rev
“How do you pronounce BABIP? Is it bah-bip or bay-bip?”
It’s bah-ting average or b-ating ah-verage
So,,I day “bah-bip”
Hader is in his prime. He’s not over paid at all either
I would like to know who got this pick right on their ‘Pick a Destination Free Agent’ bingo card ??
Am the only one who remember the bigger game for Hader to date and Freddie Freeman took his opposite field home run to eliminate the brewers and advance the Braves
I don’t remember that.
Anyone know if Diaz got a full no trade clause as well?
I wonder if the Astros will try and move Pressly now to a team seeking a closer? He’s an expensive middleman. Won’t be easy though. He’ll either be owed $16MM for one year factoring in the $2MM buyout for ‘25, or $28MM over two years. His ‘25 option automatically vests if he pitches 50 games this season. His weaker numbers last year will give teams pause on that potential level of investment.
hope they don’t ask or expect him to get a 4th out.
I’ll never forget watching Hader storm out of my hotel room when he was traded from Milwaukee on deadline day. He was MAD.
Lol You just happened to be rooming at his hotel and saw that??? That’s awesome haha
I was working there. Every single MLB team stayed there. Literally every single one for 2023 for the visiting teams. And most of 2022 when he was dealt.
Felt kind of bad because I saw the news on the way in, and then 2 hours later I saw him dragging his luggage through the lobby mean as hell.
LOL Awesome story Macbeth. Thanks for sharing!
Almost as awesome as seeing Manoah ordering enough food for a buffet when he stayed.
All that money for a guy who will pitch one inning only and can’t pitch more than 3 days in a row.
No closers pitch more than 3 days In a row buddy.
A reliever pitching is upsetting. I get it. All starts should be completed.
I mean, Rivera did, and so don’t the better closers in the league BUDDY.
Le Moron
“Evidently, then, Crane and Brown have high hopes for what Hader can bring to the bullpen”
Never put a word mid-sentence that has too commas around it unless you absolutely have to (e.g. however, though) or it’s part of a list. In this case, very easy to avoid “then” by just removing it from the sentence as it adds no value.
Didn’t read the meaningless comments. Is it too late to laugh at everyone upset about the Astro’s getting Hader? Either way
One thing I have not seen come up in any article is the “tweets”, for which he had previously apologized (give it a google if you don’t know).
This would have put Toronto out, possibly New York and La teams as well. I get that Houston has historically been as little more laxed with players pasts (Bobby Osuna immediately comes to mind)….still surprised it wasn’t at least mentioned somewhere.
I guess Hal was outbid by $50.00. Now he can possibly face hader in the ALCS while the Yankees put Holmes out there.