The Hall of Fame announced this evening that Adrián Beltré, Joe Mauer and Todd Helton have been elected by the Baseball Writers Association of America. They will be elected alongside Jim Leyland, who was selected by the Era Committee last month.
Beltré received 95.1% of the vote, Helton 79.7% and Mauer 76.1%. Billy Wagner got 73.8%, just shy of the 75% threshold. This was his ninth year on the ballot, meaning next year will be his last. Gary Sheffield received 63.9% of the vote in his 10th year on the ballot and will therefore not be present on next year’s. The full results can be found at this link from the BBWAA.
Beltré was an international signing of the Dodgers out of the Dominican Republic. He debuted in the majors in 1998 when still just 19 years old. Though it took him some time to realize his full potential, he would eventually go on to have an incredible career in just about every respect.
He eventually played in parts of 21 seasons with the Dodgers, Mariners, Red Sox and Rangers. In 2,933 career games, he had 3,166 hits, which included 636 doubles, 38 triples and 477 home runs. He was also considered to be an excellent third baseman, tallying 200 Defensive Runs Saved even though that metric didn’t exist for the first few years of his career. He also stole 121 bases over the years.
Due to the combination of his offense, defense and longevity, he produced 83.8 wins above replacement in eyes of FanGraphs while Baseball Reference has him a 93.5. He was on four All-Star teams, won five Gold Glove awards and four Silver Slugger Awards. This was his first year on the ballot.
Mauer’s career exploits were many, but there was also a poetic connective tissue in that he was so specifically tied to one franchise. Born and raised in Saint Paul, Minnesota, he entered the 2001 Major League Baseball draft and the Twins used the first overall pick to select him.
He would go on to play his entire career for the Twins, which lasted from his 2004 debut through the 2018 season. He played in 1,858 games, with injuries reducing his playing time and eventually moving him from catcher to first base. But he still managed to notch 2,123 hits and finish his career with a .306 batting average.
Of the seven batting titles won by catchers, Mauer has three of them. That included his 2009 season, wherein he hit .365 and won Most Valuable Player in the American League. He finished his career with 53 fWAR and 55.2 bWAR. He was selected to six All-Star teams, won three Gold Glove awards and five Silver Slugger Awards. This was his first year on the ballot.
Helton also spent his entire career with one organization, having been drafted eighth overall by the Rockies in 1995. He would make his major league debut in 1997 and stick with the Rockies through 2013.
In his 2,247 games, he tallied 2,519 hits, including 1,521 doubles and 369 home runs. In 2000, he hit .372 with 40 home runs, then followed that up by hitting 49 homers with a .336 batting average the year after. He made five All-Star teams, won three Gold Glove awards and five Silver Sluggers. He has career tallies of 54.9 fWAR and 61.8 bWAR. This was his sixth year on the ballot.
Per the BBWAA, this was the 10th time they elected three players, the last being when Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Iván Rodríguez were elected in 2017.
“One of these things is not like the others.”
What an interesting career Beltre had. Solid years leading to one spectacular year with the Dodgers, but then back to more just solid years in his late 20’s.
Went to Boston and got to play with David Ortiz and his production took off and remained stellar for years in Texas after that.
Wonder if Ortiz gave him some batting tips on how to prosper in the bigs after age 30.
his production took off
==========================
Not really. Beltre only had one season with more than 36 HRs. It was his fielding, health, and consistency that got him in.
OPS+ of 139 in the 5 years including his Boston year and first 4 with Texas…….well above his career mark
Joe – It was also Beltre’s ability to take down Red Sox teammates.
You should have seen his collisions with Ellsbury and Hermida, they were epic hits WWE-worthy.
Beltre cracked 4 of Ellsbury’s ribs!
Joe – It was also Beltre’s ability to take down Red Sox teammates.
============================
I don’t know what he looked like in TX, but when he was with the RS, the dude was a rock. I agreed with Theo at the time, but in retrospect, letting him leave might not have been the best idea.
@Joe Brady: Beltre was a free agent and no longer under contract, so it wasn’t up to Theo to “let him leave.”
It was, and always is, the player’s decision.
Don’t mess with his head. Wait, look it’s a bird!! AND IN SWOOPS ELVIS ANDRUS WITH A PAT ON THE HEAD
He went from a pitcher’s park in Seattle to much more offensively inclined parks in Boston and Arlington. It’s a fair reason why his production took off.
No way a banjo hitter like Mauer should make the HALL
Wow, a 1st ballot catcher? Very rare company Joe, very rare.
Hopefully Wagner gets in next year
Congrats to all!
Good for Joe Mauer. Cut short by injuries but dude was the best catcher in baseball for a long while.
Billy Wagner should get in next year. Too bad for Sheffield though. He was a close call.
The Veterans Committee will let him in a la Crimedog
sfgate.com/sports/shea/article/sheffield-tells-of-…
Sheffield won’t get in. Veterans hate steroid users much more than BBWAA voters do.
Pads – He never failed a test. It all comes down to whether or not people believe his story about not knowing what the cream had in it.
Skin, Sheffield ADMITTED he used steroids. He failed a test in 2003. Named in the Mitchell Report. The evidence is irrefutable that he cheated.
I am not doubting you but can you show the link where he admits to using? I have never seen it. And, to be fair, steroids were part of the game during his time. Many users are in. Sheffield, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire (etc) never failed a test after rigorous testing and punishment came into being. I also don’t think failing a test should be an automatic HOF rejection. People can make mistakes. Everyone reading this would be sent to Pastafarian Hell based on that logic.
His training partner was Barroid.
ONE of the links is above in Pads post. Google it and you will find their are entire books about it.
BALCO?
McGwire didn’t fail a test because he two full seasons retired before testing began. Sosa didn’t fail a test, but his career fell off the table hard at the same time, so…not hard to connect the dots there. Bonds didn’t fail a test, but there is a mountain of evidence that proves his massive usage beyond any shadow of a doubt. Sheffield has the weakest case in terms of playing without dropping way off while testing is happening and such, so he’s left to be judged by other potential evidence.
Books about Sheffield admitting to steroids? I doubt that. I googled the claim, and while technically true (Pud Galvin, Mickey Mantle, and Babe Ruth have also admitted to using steroids, just so people know), there is a caveat: Sheffield claimed he used them unknowingly while living with Bonds and working out with him.
Well that is you.
Okay Todd Helton wasn’t juicing give me a break
Helton played his entire career in Colorado. Suggesting he was “ juicing “ indicates that you don’t know about the light air as a result of higher altitude and the ball travels higher
Then again nothing surprises me on this site
Check Todd’s bloated steroid-era stats.
Check the fact that Coors wasn’t using a humidor the first few years of Todd’s career.
Check his entire career of home and away stats.
They weren’t using a humidor when he played. The ball flew in Mile High.
Drdick, yes. Home and away is the key.
And people don’t look at the other prospective: Having to adjust when leaving Coors. The grind of coming and going of Coors field has to be the hardest mental and physical adjustment in all of baseball.
Okay I will. Helton’s career road OPS (.855) is substantially higher than the total career OPS of both Adrian Beltre (.819) and Joe Mauer.(.827).
How was Helton juicing? He played a number of very productive seasons under testing, his career followed a proper non-PED baseball career arc, etc. His numbers are bloated because Coors Field was broken for most of his career, but Helton’s road numbers represent the very very good (shouldn’t be a HOFer, but next-best thing IMO) hitter and player he really was.
First time I have ever even heard that nasty little rumor.
He likely didn’t use. That’s a claim people often use to justify rooting for a player that did use PEDs.
Helton’s road slash lines are better than Beltre’s total slash lines. Are you saying Beltre doesn’t deserve to be in either?
Mauer is no where close to being in the HOF so this shows what a joke it has become. Where in his stats or where is there longevity that even remotely has him in HOF discussions?
Andruw Jones when?
Very happy for Mauer and Helton! Happy for Beltre too but figured he practically had both feet in the door already. Very let down about Wagner though..I can’t find the results anywhere. Anyone know what % Billy came in at??
73.8% I think the HOF site says 5 votes shy.
**update** Darragh just updated article with vote counts! Thanks Darragh!
Those guys deserve the honor. But Billy Wagner gets screwed again. Sad.
I don’t think Davey Johnson is hall worthy but he was a better manager than Jim Leyland. And Leyland over Piniella is a crime.
How about Bob Melvin?
Danny Murtaugh should be in before any of these 4 names mentioned.
Bucket: Not sure, but I think Melvin is still active. Tune in to the Giants games this summer to find out for sure.
Beltre and Mauer I understand getting in but not so sure on Helton, he played half his games at Coors of course his stats would be ridiculous. He is a great player though.
Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez should be in if Helton is tbh
Agree all three should.
Helton’s career road OPS is higher than both Beltres and Mauers home OPS (and road OPS). It’s not everything and there’s positional and defensive considerations, but I’d say Helton is as equal as these two.
Helton is basically Will Clark with Coors Field padded stats
You say that like it’s a bad thing. Clark was great and (imo) a borderline HoF himself.
Loved “Will the Thrill” but unfortunately like Mattingly and Hernandez he is also not in the HOF
I question whether Will Clark is worthy, but what might be keeping him out is his temper. He was a scary guy. Maybe he blew off the media one day and now they won’t vote him in. Same with Richie Allen. You vote a guy in based on his numbers, not how he treated the press.
Not even close, not even worthy of discussion, and I saw 5 years of his solid but not great career every day here in Dallas.
Well said.
Nope. He is right where he should be.
The most glaring part of Helton getting in with fewer than 400 Home Runs is the fact that Fred McGriff was seemingly punished by being kept out for not reaching 500 and McGriff was about as consistent an offensive producer you could find before the late 90’s offensive explosion
Why is it that the white boy gets in with inferior numbers on his 6th ballot while McGriff with decidedly superior numbers can’t break 40 percent with these guys in 10 years?
He was too busy taking a bite out of crime
Why is it that certain people can get away with making racial slurs in comment, but others would be banned for life if the races were reversed?
Nonsense.
McG and Helton both had almost identical OPS+, and Helton was a better fielder. Helton had a higher bWAR, and a higher bWAR/650 PAs.
I wouldn’t have voted for Helton, but he was a better player than McG.
All very deserving.
How does Sheffield not make it if Mauer does?
He never got along with the writers. Vets committee will let him in easily.
That’s so ridiculous lol, his numbers and longevity aren’t even subjective. Thanks for that info
Veteran committee has given a lower percentage of votes to known steroids users than the BBWAA voters. If he missed in his 10 years of voting the Veterans Committee is far less likely to vote him in.
I have a similar question: how much does Sheffield’s connection to BALCO affect his results?
I agree completely that Sheffield was a better player than Mauer, but I’m also conflicted on whether or not he should be voted in. I loved him as a player (that stance with the crazy bat action!), but if he’s dirty, then I think he should get the same treatment as players I didn’t like (eg Bonds).
Admitted steroid use.
sfgate.com/sports/shea/article/sheffield-tells-of-…
Pads – He didn’t admit to using steroids. He admitted to using the cream, which he claims he didn’t know it had steroids in it. Big difference.
He admitted using steroids, he tested positive in 2003, and was named in the Mitchell Report.
He knew he was cheating.
So? Half the players were doing it. Over a dozen players who used are likely already in the Hall. It was part of the game. The line should be drawn after testing and punishment was given teeth. And even then I think players should be given some leeway. One mistake shouldn’t keep a player out. People are human.
One mistake kept Shoeless Joe out. Forever, apparently. Pete Rose should have an entire wing at Cooperstown.
Love seeing guys who stayed with one team their entire career make it in.
I only hear about the characters clause to keep great players out. Mauer is a case where it may have helped a good player get in. You never hear anything bad about Mauer. Just a good player with an outstanding reputation. That should count for something in his Hall candidacy
MLB: Cobb wasn’t exactly the nicest guy in the game, but he’s one of the five chartered members when the hall opened. The media is so flawed. You vote a guy in based on what he did on the field, not how he treated the media.
Mauer gets in but not Sheffield or Jones?
You are correct. Mauer is a first ballot HOFer but Sheffield and Jones are not. Thank you for paying attention.
Not Jones! .248 lifetime BA. Good lord.
Mauer and Helton were solid players but NO WAY Hall of Fame Mauer’s career got derailed by injuries but he is like this generations Fred Lynn. Good player but that is life. Helton played his career in Colorado. He didn’t even break 400 home runs at 1B and half of his career he didn’t even hit 20.
Goose, not only is Mauer an easy HOF choice, but easy enough that he is 1ST BALLOT! His stats speak for themselves. MVP, 3 GG’s, 3 batting titles (as a freakin catcher!), .306 career hitter, over 400 dubs, only struck out 100+ times in a season once (1034K’s in a 15yr career).
3 batting titles is super elite company and unrivaled for a catcher.
Barely 2,000 hits and less than 1,000 rbi is not a HOF. Let me educate the easily impressed which sadly now includes most of the HOF voters. The Hall reserved for the best 1 percent of players who ever put on a major league uniform. Three great years or five great years is not enough if the career numbers aren’t there. The only one who had HOF worthy numbers elected was Beltre. Wagner and Carlos Beltran should have been voted in. All you Helton marks go take a look at Carlos Beltran’s career stats and Helton’s and you will see the difference in a true hall of famer and a bogus one.
Sorry, I respectfully disagree.
Helton wasn’t a HR hitter. He was a doubles hitter. You might as well get mad because he didn’t steal enough bases or win a Gold Glove at third base. It just wasn’t really part of his game.
And BTW, this is the MLB Hall of Fame and Colorado has been a part of MLB for 32 years now. Playing in Colorado should not be a punishing factor.. Unless you plan on keeping Kershaw out because he pitched his whole career in Dodger Stadium as well,
hiflew, Spot…ON!
The idea that an otherwise HOF bound player should be “punished” for playing @ Coors is one of the most maddening things in the world to me!
Or every Yankee hitter who had 275 foot left field fences.
Amen! I’m so tired of the Coors field argument! The fact that Helton attained his stats should be proof enough of his ability as a ballplayer. How many other players that donned a Rockies uniform have the same career stats? Should we also examine every HOfer that was a LH hitter that took advantage of the short porch in Yankee Stadium or every RH batter that took advantage of the monster in Fenway? The absolute fact is that a player that is deserving of HOF consideration/enshrinement actually delivers at the plate no matter where he plays!
Rightfully 295
Well said, hiflew. Helton belongs.
If he wasn’t a home run hitter he needed to get there on his hot total and 2,500 is not enough. If he had say 2,700 hits to go along with that weak sub 400 home run total I’d say you can have the Veteran’s Comitee put him in in day another 15-20
years.
Well you can do that in your little fantasy world if you want. No one is stopping you.
Mauer was not a “solid” player; he was a terrific all-around catcher for a decade. The Lynn comp doesn’t really work because his positional bar is very different from that of Mauer. Also, Lynn didn’t fall off nearly as early or hard as made out to be; that perception is fueled in large part by the era he played in, which was not strong offensively.
Steroids – No Steroids
No Sheffield either – THANK YOU!!!
Todd Helton Home / Away splits:
AB 4038 / 3924
HR 227 / 142
RBI 859 / 547
SO 514 / 661
BA 345 / 287
OBP 441 / 386
OPS 1048 / 855
If you doubled the away numbers, would that get you in the Hall?
Now compare that to other home away splits of his era. Look at OPS+, a stat that adjusts for ballpark and league, for others in his era, Helton belongs. A no doubter that has been kept out for far too long.
4 HOF 1B with a lower ROAD OPS than Helton.
133 OPS+ is not particularly impressive for a 1Bman. He had some great OPS+ figures in his prime, but it couldn’t be more obvious that certain players received larger boosts than the typical hitter and he was one of those. Baseball shouldn’t be played in thin air, and while that isn’t Helton’s fault we should be thoughtful about his case. Either way, he was a terrific ballplayer and no insult to be included so it’s not a big deal either way.
redsoxu571
133 OPS+ is not particularly impressive for a 1Bman.
=================================
That’s my argument as well.
Dewey Evans had a 127 OPS+ and a great fielder.
Reggie Smith had a 137+ and a great fielder.
Grich had a 125+ and a great fielder.
I would take those three guys in a heartbeat over Helton.
That’s not really fair, as Coors seems to have an effect of deflating the away numbers as well as inflating the home numbers.
But regardless, part of the criteria is contribution to your team(s). Guys like Helton who are true, career-long faces of franchises I do think deserve a little extra consideration beyond the pure numbers. Not that everyone who spends 15 years with one team should be in the HOF, but the fact that Helton is THE Colorado Rocky (Rockie? Rockies?) should boost him from borderline to over the line.
We prefer Rockie as singular.
The reason Rockies hitters have lower away numbers than the rest of the league are three fold.
1. With the unbalanced shedule, a full one third of the Rockies road stats were SD, SF, and LA. Three of the most pitcher friendly stadiums in the league. When calculating an average, that really drags down good numbers.
2. There is a proven effect of breaking balls not working the same in Coors as elsewhere. Rockies hitters always have a tendency to need a game or two to catch back up when starting a road trip. It’s been that way since 1993 and probably will never change.
3. And most importantly in my mind. The Rockies are the only hitters that don’t get Coors Field stats added to their road averages. When the schedule was unbalanced, Coors Field accounted for over 10% of the road totals for all 4 other NL West teams. Nobody ever said anything about that.
I dunno, if you doubled his BA, OBP, and OPS I’d say he was the greatest player of all time but that’s just my opinion.
Awesome.
So he had a slash of .287/.386/.469/855 over nearly 4000 ABs on the road? And you’re saying this trying to discredit him?
It’s not discrediting him; for the era in which he played, that line from 1B was still very good, but not even remotely HOF worthy. Baseball is the thinker’s sport, and we shouldn’t disparage or straw man analysis efforts.
How many hitters are much better at home than on the road? GO take a look.
Quick example (homeruns):
Chuck Klein 191 home 109 road
Ron Santo 217 home 125 road
Mel Ott 323 home 188road
Add some Gold Gloves.
Lars: Helton was a hitter, not a home run guy. Everyone wants to talk about Coors field. Ok. For comparison, Helton’s away batting average was .287. Beltre’s CAREER batting average was .286.
The hall of good
So don’t go there if it bothers you that much, I don’t get how people get SO upset because someone that spent 20 years of their life entertaining YOU gets a small plaque in a museum to honor their career. Would you go to a retirement dinner at your job and complain about the guy getting a gold watch because there were far better workers than him?
Because it’s supposed to be for the best of the best. It is supposed to be and was a sacred honor and ultra exclusive. Not for players who are equal to be about a hundred other non deserving players who must also get in if the standards are going to be lowered so much. For non middle infielders the HOF benchmarks are 3,000 hits 500 homers or close to one or the other. Is that standard of excellence so hard for you to understand?
There will ALWAYS be disagreements and mistakes. There will ALWAYS be changes in understanding the worth of a player. This is not static despite your protestations otherwise. And besides, PLENTY of mediocre players have made the hall in the past. Just roll your eyes and appreciate the ones you think deserve it.
Todd Helton?????
Not better than
Munson,Mattingly,Wagner,Sheffield,Jones,Evans,Albert Belle.
Asterisks? Should be on his plaque (Baines too).
Helton hasn’t been proven to be linked to PED’s like Sheffield.
Dave Frost: Is that right? Munson isn’t in the HOF? That surprises me. You don’t vote a guy in because he died tragically in a plane crash, but he was a great C. He should be in. And what about Dave Parker? If he’s not in, he should be.
As a RS fan, I’d say Munson was as good as Fisk, and Nettles was as good as Boggs. Just a little different.
You’re an asterisk. So is your mom.
Comparing Baines and Helton is absurd.
All 3 are truly deserving of this honor. I think the voters got this exactly right.
I know Shef can be a little crusty at times but damn, 500 HRs in this game is 500 HOME RUNS!
Sheffield should be in the HOF for his batting stance that we all probably tried to imitate at 1 point playing backyard baseball 🙂
No 500 steroid induced home runs is not 500 home runs. Bonds, McGuire, Clemens or ANY of the Astros shouldn’t even be allowed to visit the Hall of Fame.
Shoeless Joe Jackson is debatable but the rest of these clowns were pure CHEATERS!
Who’s this McGuire guy? He related to Canseco’s fellow “Bash Brother” Mark McGwire?
Beltre is one of the most underrated players in the last 25 years. Well deserved.
And didn’t Helton suddenly loser all of his power after that steroids hearing?
His power began to decline starting in his age 31 season. If you want to use the loose timing of some other steroid stuff going on elsewhere as the cause to discredit his candidacy, you’re gonna find 100 other HoFers whose power didn’t hold up in their 30s,too.
Coincidence. Coors Field added a humidor around the same time which stopped most of the 15-14 games. Other things happened in the game that had nothing to do with steroids.
Helton lost power when he started having back problems. The humidor in Denver also made a difference; his big HR numbers were pre-humidor and he was always more of a doubles hitter than a big HR slugger.
Exactly. Helton is the top 20 of ALL TIME in doubles. If you are in the career top 20 in just about any major category in MLB history, you deserve to be in the HOF.
Gallo should make top 20 in strike outs, if he’s not there already. Lets put him in!
Coots Field is a cavern and ANYTHING in the gaps is a double. It led all stadiums in doubles, triples, and homers.
This is accounted for in OPS+, but you can’t just bring it up as a counting stat without acknowledging that all power numbers are grossly inflated by the stadium.
He was a premium hitter for many years but is a very fringy HOFer for me.
Humidor and age. Look it up.
No and Beltre was more than deserving.
Sheffield deserves to be in, man. Mauer’s boring, barely HOF career could’ve waited.
Your mom is boring. She can’t even keep up with the winkle man.
Good one
They got it right. Cheaters Sheffield and Beltran.were kept out.
Wagner should get in next year if history is any indication.
I didn’t think Wagner had any years left. Thought this was his last year on the ballot.
I just read the ESPN article—next season is Wagner’s last year….He came about 5 votes shy this year so I expect he’ll make it in next year.
Let’s hope so. He deserves to be in.
1 more year for Wagner.
I think Wagner is borderline but Joe Nathan deserves it as much as him.
One more.
A Coors Field 1B from the steroid era lmao
Imagine 2001-2004 Barry Bonds playing home games at Coors Field
I’d like to imagine a 2001-2004 Bonds who wasn’t shooting up a massive amount of steroids.
I think Helton should have fallen short, but that’s terribly unfair. There’s zero evidence of any sort (even visual analysis of his body type) that suggests he was a roider. He was a supreme bat and eye guy who raked doubles and drove enough of those over the fence, who then saw his numbers see a big boost from his home ballpark. That should be factored in, but it’s not his fault. We’re talking about a .390 OBP guy from ages 34-37.
I know a lot of people are wondering how Mauer got in, but judging someone who played their best seasons as a catcher makes it a different beast to judge. I would have voted for him personally, but even I am a little surprised he was first ballot.
I always liked watching Mauer play. Beltre was just magic with the glove and carried a big bat.
Sheffield was a better player than David Ortiz and failed fewer PED tests than David Ortiz. It sucks the bar is set that low, but it is. As such, he should be in if Artificially Big Papi is.
If only Sheffield had a smile that made people feel really good about themselves, and had given himself a fun nickname like Big Sheffy.
Both of you are spot on.
Big Fly Sheffy.
Not true Halos. Sheffield admitted he used steroids, failed a test in 2003, and was named in the Mitchell Report.
Sheffield production declined after testing started. Ortiz’s production got better after testing started.
The report written by a Red Sox employee that conveniently left out all Red Sox players?
My mistake on the fact he failed as many tests as Ortiz.
But Ortiz admitted to taking a level of tests you only receive for being in the program and getting his results in the mail which only happens when you fail. The fact he out did a 40 year old Bonds is proof he was roided to the end.
It didn’t leave out Red Sox players.
According to Bing Chat, here are all 89 players who were named in the Mitchell Report.
Someone else can figure out who was on the Red Sox roster at the time, and whether or not “former Red Sock” is part of this definition.
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Marvin Benard
Gary Bennett Jr.
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Paxton Crawford
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Juan Gonzalez
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
Brian Hunter
Todd Jones
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Nook Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews Jr.
Mark McGwire
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Mike Stanton
Miguel Tejada
Julian Tavarez
Fernando Tatis
Ron Villone
Jason Varitek
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun
Rick White
Jeff Williams
Matt Herges
Kevin Witt
Rudy Seanez
Eric Chavez
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Matt Lawton
Mike Morse
Jay Gibbons
Rick Ankiel
Paul Lo Duca
Troy Glaus
Scott Schoeneweis
I count at least 12 former Red Sox on that list.
There are several repeated names on that list
Right, hence “according to Bing Chat”. It’s possible the AI made a mistake or two, hence me mentioning it as the source.
To be fair, maybe not everyone knows what Bing Chat is.
On the roster at the time of the report: 0.
Rick Ankiel must have been bad he’s on naughty list 2x
Looking at that Mitchell’s Report only solidifies my belief that Steroids use was way overrrated
I’d forgotten all about Juan González. An animal.
@Stan He did double secret probation steroids.
Hey, Bing Chat said. And Bing Chat is never wrong.
Surprised he didn’t stay on ballot longer.
Man I’m glad I ain’t on that list.
Repeat offenders maybe?
Bing chat, is that the portly dude from Friends who unfortunately o’ded in a hot tub and the silver fox who crooned White Christmas
Wagner got hosed
Over 10.00 ERA in 14 postseason games outs him on the outside looking in.
Joe Mauer over Andruw Jones is the dumbest thing I have seen since Baines got in.
The only dumber would be Andruw Jones getting elected at all. A .254 career batting average would be the lowest of any Hall of Famer, Mauer and Baines included.
Jones played absolutely brilliant defense and at his peak had a decent bat (117 ops+ over his 20s, 111 for his career)
His 62.7 WAR is a bit low but still higher than David Ortiz. He just did his with a glove rather than a bat.
Ortiz was not an OF so you can’t compare the two.
Compare Jones to other OF.
His WAR was higher than Mariano Rivera too, does that mean he should get higher than 100% if he gets inducted?
As far as offense v defense goes. In baseball, offense will always be more important. No matter how good your defense is, you still cannot win the game without scoring. No matter how bad your defense is, you can still outscore the other guy. Winning 9-8 is always going to be better than losing 1-0.
I’m comparing Jones to the current low bar for entry.
I hate WAR for pitchers.
A run saved is as good as a run scored. Run differential = winning. With good defense you can win 2-0. Having to score 9 runs a game isn’t sustainable.
A run saved is not as good as a run scored. No one ever won a game 0 to negative 1. But plenty have won a game one to nothing.
And your example doesn’t work because good defense does not score 2 runs,. You can just as easily play perfect defense and still lose 2-0 due to 2 home runs. With good defense you can go to extra innings tied 0-0, but you still have to score at some point to win.
You. Can’t. Compare. DH. To. OF.
Compare CF to CF.
Jones –
Center Field:
62.7 career WAR | 46.4 7yr-peak WAR
Average HOF CF (out of 19):
71.6 career WAR | 44.7 7yr-peak WAR
Jones probably still belongs, but THAT is the comparison to make. Not to a DH.
Compare Ortiz to other players that played most of their career at DH and he is the 4th or 5th best ever. Thomas, Thome, Edgar Martinez. Those are his comps.
That is about the dumbest thing I have read today. A Run SAVED means it never makes it on the board so of course has the same value as a run scored.
A Hall of Famer is elected based on the total value he provided on the field.
Currently the low bar for that value is 55 WAR.
Defending that by pointing out the 55 WAR player was incapable of playing defense or running bases just proves the 55 WAR player isn’t as valuable as many players who won’t get in.
A HOF is elected based on how he compares to other players at the position(s) he played in his career. So CF are compared to other CF. DH are compared to other DH.
Congrats to Beltre! He was an inspiration during my teenage baseball years. Slickest Rangers 3rd baseman of all time.
I think that’s a good class. Helton deserves it for sure, hopefully Wagner gets in next year.
Let me get this straight, Mauer averaged about 9/10 home runs per year at catcher and first base and is in the hall of fame. That’s just great.
Homeruns is not everything
When you get on base 40% of the time, play elite defense at a premier position, and are adept enough at game/player management that you’re basically another bench coach, they tend to let you get away with things like low home run totals.
A good, but not great catcher, a guy who played his entire career in Denver and rocked during the steroid era and another cheater. The HOF is a farce now. The era of “every boy gets a trophy”.
I.M. Insane: I know. I hate the everybody-gets-a-trophy-just-for-participating garbage. Expansion has definitely diluted the talent. How many really good catchers are there in the majors? Rutschman, Heim, Realmuto. I like d’Arnaud, but I don’t know if he’s a great C. Murphy can catch but is a little behind with his hitting.
It is completely illogical at best.
The best steroid guys are out (Bonds, Clemens) while far less valuable roiders are in (Ortiz confirmed, Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez almost certainly).
It is clearly a club of guys who played nice with the writers.
Ortiz got BETTER after testing started in earnest and he had to be tested 10 times per year.
He was a mediocre player before testing started. 0.4 WAR per season. 108 OPS+. In the one season he tested positive for steroids during that preliminary test to see if testing would start he had a 120 OPS+.
AFTER testing started he averaged a 148 OPS+ and 4 WAR per season.
So without steroids (VERIFIED) he was the HOF player.
I assume this means Yadier Molina is a shoe in?
Should be, but they’re different players. Where Mauer has the edge in elite offensive production, Molina wins in longevity and sustained output. I might get in trouble for this one but at their peak, it’s a wash between the two defensively.
Yadi is the greatest defensive catcher ever. Every facet of catching he was the best. That alone should put him in. He also made himself a pretty good hitter.
Bench was his equivalent on defense and Ivan was better. But Yadier was excellent.
He always has been.
Always has been a has been?
Yes
Depends is Yadi a Nike or Adidas?
Clueless voters
Clueless old guy.
This is a perfect vote outcome. If Bonds (no positive test), Clemens and Arod are excluded, I wouldn’t understand why Sheffield would be inducted. What am I missing there?
I am on the fence with Wagner, as are the writers.
Mad respect for this vote. Only objection— WHO WOULDN’T VITE FOR BELTRE?!
Adrian Gonzalez with less than 1%. At one point in his career it looked like he would be headed to the hall of fame one day.
At least he’s in the Hall Of Former Padres Who Terrorized The Padres As Opposing Players.
This is largely off-topic, but I’m curious because there’s always the peak v. longevity argument when it comes to the HOF.
If Ohtani announced tomorrow that he was going to give the Dodgers their money back (in 40 years when he gets it) and quit baseball so he could become the world’s best soccer player, would you vote to put him in the baseball HOF based solely on what he’s done already?
baseballpun: Yes.
Ohtani isn’t even remotely close to Hall of Fame worthy now. And he might never be worthy of it.
Ohtani hasn’t played enough yet but when his career is over I guarantee he will be a first ballot hall of famer.
He won’t be a 2 way player again until his age 31 season (he’s already at the age when performance could fall off a cliff at any point and it likely will soon, as it does for the very large majority of players soon after entering their very late 20s/early 30s) and then who knows how much longer that will continue. It’s not certain at all that he will be deserving of the Hall of Fame. And it’s not because of getting a late start in MLB- he was only 23 when he first played in MLB. In all likelihood, he will either be undeserving of the Hall of Fame, or he will be barely deserving of it.
Wouldn’t be eligible – the rule is 10 seasons in the MLB. There have been waivers to the rule (Addie Joss only played 9 and change, for instance), but Ohtani’s 6 seasons are well too far under the mark.
When considering whether a player is hall of fame worthy you must compare that player to players in the hall who play the same position. You cannot compare a relief pitcher to a catcher or a 3rd baseman to a center fielder.
What position do you compare Mauer to?
baseballpun: Mauer (imo) is (should be) viewed as a catcher since that’s where he played the majority of his career, including his peak years.
According to baseball reference it was only about half of his games played.
Baseballpun, agree with Prospectnvstr. Mauer has to be compared as a catcher. He definitely deserves to be a HOF player as a catcher. Ten of his best ten years were primarily as a catcher. An MVP, with four other years with down votes, five time silver slugger, three time gold glove, six time All Star. Only six other catchers in the Hall have a better JAWS rating. I think too much attention is placed on being voted into the Hall on their first ballot. Sometimes the field is just too crowded. This year it was not that at all.
Wagner was just 5 votes shy…
yep…I thought he’d make it this year.
He’s in next year. No doubt. He’ll look good up their with Ichiro.
No one will see him or Ichiro because CC’s frame will block them from view.
CC should get in solely for coining the phrase Weird Ass Minnesota Twins in his podcast rant about said weird ass Minnesota Twins and their selective outrage as the red ass self proclaimed defenders of the integrity of the game for throwing that Yermin Mercedes hissy fit
Wagner shy. Like the other Astro, Altuve. He shy too
The short one’s are always shy Theo…Don’t let baseball reference fool you. Wagner wasn’t a mite taller than 5’7!
The Houston wallflowers, p’shaw.
Happy for everyone who gets in, really happy for Helton. Shame Sheffield missed and hopefully Billy Wagner makes it, with it being his final eligible year.
Couple surprises though. Mainly Beltran and Utley, I’m surprised and would’ve thought their places on the list were reversed. Also, a little surprised that neither A-Rod or Manny got a bigger jump in votes. The steroid era is being forgiven as we get further away and at least Manny is more likable to the layman compared to guys like Bonds, Schilling, & Clemens. Just surprised they weren’t higher on the list.
Also, shoutout to that one voter who had Brandon Phillips on his list. While BP isn’t a hall of famer, during his peak, he was such a fun player to watch. One of those players who helped lead the resurgence of that franchise in the late 2000’s/early 2010’s.
jumps: The steroid abusers are not being forgiven. Bonds was an obvious abuser, but Schilling said something he shouldn’t have (I don’t know what) and that’s what is keeping him out of the hall. Once again, piss off the media and you can forget about ever making it in even if you were a great player.
Sheffield, Beltre and Helton were all likely PED users but only one of them pissed of baseball writers.
Beltre had his best years by far in Texas long after the steroid era had ended and testing had become frequent. I think you’re a trash can banging troll
No they weren’t.
Helton? yeeesh
I have a Beltre jersey and really enjoyed watching him play. With that said, I don’t think his longevity makes it fair for fans to unleash their wrath on whoever voted against him. He never really was a top 5 or 10 guy like Trout, Pujols, or Cabrera, but he was historically good at aging and ended up with one of the best contracts in Rangers’ history. Guys said he was overpaid, though I think he went from being underrated by a good amount to being a bit overrated. I am very glad I got to see this elite player for so long, and I really wish he got to win in 2011, but he at least got to throw out a 1st pitch on the WS run. I don’t usually overvalue defense, but I think thus guy’s above-average defense and elite offense made him rare, especially in his 30s.
I found it amazing he was only a 4 time all-star. 4 times???? Travesty
He deserved to go in. at 95%!
I was surprised he didn’t go in at more….what with the up to 10 person ballot that the BBWA has now.
Almost 500 career home runs, all time great defender, 3000 hit club, almost 100 career bWAR (fifth all time among third basemen) and, if you’re talking about his peaks not being high enough, the sixth highest WAR among third basemen for his high 7 years.
Anyone who didn’t vote for him is a clown. Straight up. There’s a reason he was well over 90%.
Mauer is in, but no Thurman. A joke, not to insult Mauer. But really???????
Hall of Mediocrity.
Meh…
Oh well. Go watch soccer instead,
@hiflew
Oh, the bitterness of mediocrity must feel right at home for some. Enjoy your soccer – where every goal is as exciting as waiting for that Hall of Fame induction announcement.
Even if you’re an anti-roid purist, still feels like a good handful of snubs here. Particularly Wagner and Jones.
If Mauer is in. Posey is in. I can see Helton. He was a force for that time period. Steroids or not. And the greatest Rockie. Has a lot going for him. Beltre got there thru longevity. Steroids? Probably something. But he played a long time. Gold gloves in general are iffy at best. And got a lot of hits. To me, Not a HOFer during his career. But a career worthy of induction thru longevity.
The 19 voters that left Adrian Beltre off their ballots should be ashamed and have their voting rights removed. There is no argument for him not being a first ballot hall of famer. Just a bunch of grumpy old men wielding their power. So impressive…not!!!! And how the heck could Billy Wagner fall just 5 votes short on his penultimate BWAA ballot? They voters better get him in next year. It shouldn’t have to take him 10 years to get in. He is a sure fire hall of famer. He was flat out filthy and dominant. Other than that, glad to see Todd Helton and Joe Mauer get in the Hall. Very deserving and both were very talented football players, too. If they chose the other sport, maybe they would be in Canton right now. But, I think they made the right decision for sure. Congrats to this year’s class…including one of the best managers to ever grace the dugout in Jim Leyland!!!!
If David Ortiz is a HOFer…then Gary Sheffield is 100% a HOFer.
Sheffield admitted using steroids, tested positive in 2003, was named in the Mitchell Report.
Most importantly Sheffield’s production fell once testing started and Ortiz’s went up after testing started.
Viveleempireevil – There is NO PROOF steroids changed the success of home run hitters. The juiced ball employed in 1995 changed the volume of home runs significantly. Selig did it. He got in and threw the players under the bus. By pointing to steroids the juiced ball never became publicized but check the numbers, it can’t be more clear. Writers don’t acknowledge it because that would mean they were fools in what they wrote about the impact of steroids. Verducci is the worst. He still contends it was steroids not the baseball despite the correlation coefficient between HRS and the Juice in the ball are far greater than the correlation coefficient of HRS and Steroids. In fact, that comparisons shows no relationship correlating the two!!! Not too many have publicized that fact!!! Why? Corruption in the highest segments of baseball. Corruption and commissions have a very high correlation!!
Sheffield should have been on the first vote just like Papi, Bonds, McGwire and Clemens. NO evidence but the players are still being persecuted.
Selig is in the HOF. LOL
Congratulations to Mauer and Beltre. I have some pause in regards to Helton but it doesn’t matter what I think.
Agreed on Beltre & Helton and congrats. Joe Mauer is NOT a Hall of Famer. Especially not 1st ballot. Maybe 25 years in the future on the Veteran’s Committee. Maybe.
Mauer had a better case than Helton, but I agree he’s no Hall Of Famer, most certainly not first ballot. I hate how these new age writers are cheapening and polluting the HOF with all these undeserving Hall Of Very Goog players. The HOF used to be special until they gave the vote to all these needledick gen-x and millennial voters. I’m a millennial by the way and the only thing I appreciate about boomers is they atleast preserved the HOF for only those who truly deserved to be there.
I always suspected Beltre to be a steroid user. Last season with LA before hitting free agency, no roids in Seattle, and then on the juice again in his one year with Boston and for the rest of his career. No proof of course, just a hunch. Helton as well, of course. On the other hand, I like the selection of Mauer, he looked to play clean–and so did freak of nature Wagner who will get in next year.
Baloney.
Great job BBWAA. You got it right. Congrats to Beltre, Mauer, and Helton.
Would have loved to see Wagner get in, but he still has a chance next season.
For the Helton haters. There are 4 other HOF 1B that have a lower ROAD OPS. All players have lower road splits. His defense was exceptional.
Doesn’t have the numbers. A first baseman must have 500 homers or 3,000 hits or somewhere within shouting distance of eithrf. His 363 Coors Field home runs and his 2,500 hits with no MVP don’t cut hall of fame mustard. Sorry but the Hall Of Fame is reserved for the best of the best, Helton is a tier or two below that.
Must eat at you that no matter what you think, he is 100% in the HOF.
4 other 1B that are in the HOF had a lower OPS. So Helton is above those 4 HOF 1B.
NOT sorry but all of your comment is BS.
Only because the writers voting are a new generation of easily impressed fans like you. He’s not as bogus as Scott Rolen or Larry Walker but still totally undeserving.
Or morons like you don’t really understand wtf you are talking about.
If he is better than other 1B that are in the HOF then he is deserving.
No brainer Hall of famer. Just like his pal Walker!
You are easily impressed. At this point why don’t we just put in every guy who made at least 5 all star games? That seems to be the standard these weak ass writers are setting.
3 batting titles isn’t quite the same thing as making an AS team a few times.
“His defense was exceptional” his -5.0 dWAR says otherwise
How many other first basemen are in that didn’t even have 400 home runs, 3,000 hits or an MVP? None of them had Coors Field enhanced numbers either. Carlos Beltran is a hall of famer, not Todd Helton.
Tony Perez
Gil Hodges
Johnny Mize
Bill Terry
George Kelly
Roger Connor
Dan Brouthers
Jake Beckley
Frank Chance
And Beltran is a non-flyer for obvious off-the-field reasons.
His DRS and RTOT tell a different story. If you want to be a hater you find a way even if it shows you never actually watched him play or looked deeper.
Helton’s defense was pretty good, just not “exceptional” he definitely deserves to be in the HOF, IMO. But don’t embellish his accomplishments. Andruw Jones’ defense was exceptional, not Helton’s.
I’m just glad Helton got in so I won’t have another year of hearing the Rockies TV broadcasters go on and on about how deserving he is and how people misjudge the effects of Coors Field.
I didn’t see Mauer as a 1st ballot guy at all. Yes very good career, but not 1st Ballot
How in the heck can 24% of the voters NOT include Joe Mauer.
The make-up of those having the PRIVILEGE of casting a vote
is clearly overdue for a review and overhaul.
You got it backwards, how is it that 76% thought he deserves to be in the first ballot. That’s the real question.
Beltré was a leader & one of my all-time-favourites. Congrats to all four inductees – well deserved. Making Wagner wait another year speaks to the outdated methods of the HOF process.
joe mauer is **not** a Hall of Famer. Pathetic.
F22 – Actually his is and since you didn’t explain why he’s not I’ll explain why he is. Catchers haven’t hit much throughout the history of baseball. His three batting titles makes him incredibly unique. Add to it his good defense and great arm and he belongs. His time at 1B couldn’t be helped. Many great players have ended their careers at 1B and it didn’t tarnish what they did at their career position. Ernie Banks come to mind since I grew up in Chicago. Mauer deserves to be in.
Actually just read that he is
Couldn’t agree more. And the fact that he was elected on the first ballot is nauseating.
What is nauseating is your hate filled, uninformed garbage.
I just hope Elvis Andrus is at the induction ceremony to sneak up on stage while Beltre is giving his speech and pat him on the head.
Right??
Joe Mauer is in no way shape or form a first ballot hall of famer. He didn’t play catcher long enough to get in on his numbers as a catcher and was a mediocre offensive first baseman. I don’t think he’s a hall of famer period, certainly not first ballot. This new generation of voters is so easily impressed putting in all these undeserving players in recent years like Scott Rolen and Larry Walker. Todd Helton is also not a hall of famer. He’s hall of great and comes up well short of a hall of fame career.
Both are HOF.
JHoward – Not sure what you beef is with Mauer but he was an exceptional catcher and then got moved to first to extend his career. Ernie Banks was a great SS and finished his career at 1B. At that point, he wasn’t as great a 1B as other career long 1Bs but his years at SS were exceptional just like Mauer’s were at catcher. ONE MVP and 6 of his 10 years at catcher he was top 20 in the MVP voting with four of the 5 when he didn’t win the MVP he was in the top 8. He won a Silver Slugger award 5 of the 10 years he caught and made the all=star team 6 times.
That’s a great career for a catcher. His years at 1B were disappointing but his 10 catcher years earn him a spot in the HOF as one of the greatest catchers ever.
FYI – Sandy Koufax had 7 ho hum years and suddenly got great in his 8th year and only pitched 5 great years and got in. Did he deserve to be there? Under your concepts the answer is no.
Frankly, I find it easier to justify Mauer over Koufax based on performance..
My problem with Mauer is he barely cleared 2,000 hits and got many of those hits as a mediocre offensive first baseman. He also had no power. His credentials are much better than Scott Rolen, Larry Walker ot Todd Helton. He did win three batting titles and an MVP as a catcher and if he didn’t rack up so many of those barely 2,000 hits I would say yes as his career would be comparable enough to Gary Carter’s without the power. He was a much better hitter than Carter as far as average goes but as I said too many of those career hits came as a first baseman. Should have atleast waited until the fourth or fifth ballot. He doesn’t disgust me the way Scott Rolen does. If Rolen is a Hall Of Famer then so is Buddy Bell, Graig Nettles and a host of others who are decidedly not Hall Of Fame material.
Graig Nettles? Please. The guy batted .248 for his career.
Rolen was better than Bell or Nettles and both those guys were great.. Do a little research and you will see. Rolen is a top 10 all time 3B. Watch some highlight reels if thats your thing.
JHoward, Re-check both of their stats.
Probably not 1521 doubles for Helton
Ortiz Sheffield . difference one guy was popular with media and fans. He is in. one guy gets benefit of doubt. Other is guilty.
This after all is group where next year someone will not vote for Ichiro but will vote Pedroia .
If we’re mentioning likely steroid users who got the benefit of the doubt due to popularity, Piazza has to join Ortiz at the top of the list.
sweetg – What a bizarre comment. Why would they vote against Ichiro and for Pedroia. Is this one of those ridiculous privileged comments?
Players should get in on the first vote if they earned it. Clearly Ichiro did and Pedroia also had an exceptional career that got cut short by injury (Thanks Manny Machado). But I dont’ believe anyone in their right mind thinks Ichiro’s career is less than Pedroia’s. Ichiro should be a year 1 choice and Pedroia based on other 2Bs will wait because 2Bs are not respected by hall voters unless they are Yankees. NY bias is huge in the voting and Pedroia played for their arch rival. Heck, Sandberg, arguably the greatest 2B of all time when he retired didn’t get in easily like he should have. The HOF voting is like mayoral voting, who do the powerful people in the HOF want in gets in and the ones they don’t want never make it until the Veteran’s Committee.
The HOF is all politics and I think that’s what your point was. Greatest players? NOPE Most liked? Maybe. Sheffield was not the guy who made the big speech after the Boston Bombing so he’s not as politically acceptable. It’s the way things work at the HOF. I agree with you but I don’t think Pedroia was a good example. He’s got no clout. He could drop off the ballet after the first year. Ichiro won’t even if he doesn’t get in the first year he is eligible. He’ll get in. Pedroia needs some powerful people to step up on his behalf to get in.
If I was picking teams in a sandlot, I would take Ichiro first, Pedroia second and Jeter third. That’s how screwed up the HOF voting is!!!
Ichiro is not just HOF worthy, he is in the running for best of all time in my book!
Not sure how this is a trade rumor… but sure, I guess nothing else is going on.
Sing for your supper you imposter
Honestly, these guys belong in the “Hall of Very Good,” but the Hall of Fame? Not sure they belong there (maybe Mauer), unless the standards have truly come down and we are letting a lot of guys in.
Belpre was great a few seasons but never his whole career and Helton was great but HoF?
Curt Schilling deserves it more than any of these three on stats alone.
Schilling? And you want to criticize these guys as only belonging in the Hall of Very Good?
Schilling is number 20 all time for strikeouts. Better than Glavine.
I know Belre has 3000 hits, but power hitters should have at least 500 homeruns. They should start using solid numbers rather than let everyone in.
Thanks for showing your ignorance of what matters.
The ironic part is I have no clue which post of mine you’re even referring to.
There’s nothing ironic about that.
Fair enough but he should be specific enough to make his post comprehensible.
Or you should make all of your posts comprehensible.
@Chaim Breslow’s Purse why are you comparing Schilling to Glavine using strikeouts? Glavine was never a strikeout pitcher, he pitched to induce weak contact.
Okay, then. You obviously want attention or to pick a fight about something. Still have no idea what you’re fighting me about, but you can join the banned list.
True, but Schilling has pitched far fewer innings and had great results. Point is, he has Hall of Fame numbers. Only reason he’s off the ballot is politics.
Beltre clearly deserves to be in. He has over 3,000 hits and nearly 500 homers while playing exceptional third base defense. He’s a first ballot hall of famer without question. However, you are correct about the other two, neither deserves to ever get in. The true Hall Of Fame class from this year should be Beltre, Carlos Beltran, Billy Wagner and that’s it. Those guys are true hall of famers, Helton and Mauer totally bogus. Atleast they made Helton wait, Mauer getting in at all let alone first ballot proves this new generation of writers voting are a bunch of easily impressed fan boys. When I was growing up the standards were 3,000 hits, 300 wins and 500 homers. You had to have those numbers or a very well-rounded career at a middle infield position or catcher to make it. Otherwise, if you were a corner infielder or an outfielder you needed 3,000 or 500 or something very close to it like Andre Dawson and Carlos Beltran who are both very close to 3,000 hits and 500 homers. They both also stole over 300 bases and played gold glove defense.
I don’t know about Beltre. Beltre was always overrated. He had a spectacular 2004 season and was great from 2010 on, but he was very basic every other year of his career, only hitting between .250 and .275 with a low OBP and about 20 something homers.
Those were “good” seasons, but not Hall-worthy seasons in my book. I guarantee there are guys out there with 500 homeruns in fewer seasons. Beltre hasn’t even gotten 500. 3000 hits, sure, but he played a lot of seasons.
To me, he’s in the Hall of Very Good. When his name comes up, I think of him as solid but nowhere near as perennially good as other Hall of Famers. He had a lot of “decent” seasons that everyone overlooks for his better days.
Schilling, like him or hate him, is number 20 all-time for strikeouts. It’s a crime he’s not in, even with his big mouth. It’s all political, and the Hall, in my book, has lost some credibility.
Why do people think Fame and Very Good are on the same scale? They are not even similar in description.
Obviously Ped’s helped Bonds to be a monster, but steroids can give you more power, energy, etc but can’t qive you talent and skills, he was already a great ballplayer before them, how many of hundred players used them and never came even close to his numbers? HOFamer or not, he was one of the very few best ball players ever, hitting, running, etc IMHO, also, where is Vizquel? If Ozzie Smith got there, he should also be there also, again IMHO
Bonds could have stopped at 500 home runs and still been a Hall of Famer.
In fact, if I were the Hall, that’s exactly how I would handle it. Give him the plaque, but have it say 500 home runs.
I don’t think anyone alleges Bonds juiced for his entire career, so I don’t see why everything he did while not juicing gets thrown out because of what he did while allegedly juicing.
*shrug* It is what it is.
I would probably accept that.
All the home runs he hit counted in official major league games. He was not suspended. None of the games he played in were ever vacated like the NCAA likes to do. Everything he did counts. If you don’t like it, well tough, get over it. I couldn’t stand Bonds as a player, but anyone thinking he is not among the greatest players of all time is just kidding themselves.
@hiflew I said Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame, which by reasonable deduction means I agree he is one of the greatest players of all time. Your rant is misplaced.
The rant was actually a reply to Berischa instead of you. No idea why it swapped spots.
Just because Bonds isn’t in the HOF doesn’t mean people don’t think he isn’t among the greatest players. Being in the Hall is a reward he doesn’t deserve because he cheated. Plain and simple.
The other argument people always make is that other cheaters are already in, so we should just let all cheaters in. That’s a fallacy. The system isn’t perfect, that doesn’t mean it should be disregarded.
Viszquel Is not close to Ozzie Smith. Look up Jaws or WAR.
Mark B
Todd Helton 58 points higher batting average at home and more than 80 HRs more at home. Fake HoF’er. How many pitchers that have played for the Rockies are in the Hall ?
363 home runs and 2,500 hits is not a hall of fame first baseman end of story. Never won an MVP. The current HOF voting of the 5-6 years is just another example of society’s standards going down the tubes. Until this current generation of writers came in you had to have had a legit hall of fame career without using steroids. They made Andre Dawson wait 9 years after he was first eligible in 2002. Dawson had nearly 2,800 hits, 438 home runs, nearly 1,600 rbi, over 300 stolen bases, 8 gold gloves and won an mvp. That is a true hall of famer folks. Dawson should have been in on atleast year 2 of the ballot. Compare his career to hall of fame fraud Larry Walker and you will see what I’m talking about.
First off, he SHOULD have won the MVP in 2000. So get off that subject altogether.
Second of all, I am tired of arguing about this. So I’ll just end with this thought.
“363 home runs and 2,500 hits is not a hall of fame first baseman”
IT IS NOW! Change your thought on the subject because you have no real voice on who is or is not a Hall of Famer. You can state your opinion, but it counts about as much as Monopoly money. Yeah it exists, but it’s not really worth anything at all.
Another example of the standards of excellence being lowered. That is why this society is in the damn shape it’s in. Larry Walker, Todd Helton, Scott Rolen, Joe Mauer and possibly Tim Raines should all be recalled in order to debastardise the Hall. Of all the aforementioned Raines is the only one with a strong case and he may well deserve to be there but it’s very close. Compared to the others he’s a no brainer. For now on why don’t we save the time and trouble. If you made 5 all star teams you’re a Hall Of Famer.
I’m sorry if Todd Helton’s election has destroyed your world, but I’m really not sorry at all.
You are a good 50+ years too late. If you think Walker, Helton, et al., are bastardizing the Hall, you obviously haven’t seen the cases of the New York Giants put in by the Veterans Committee of the 1970s – a couple of Giants putting in their old teammates.
bbt
“Todd Helton 58 points higher batting average at home and more than 80 HRs more at home. Fake HoF’er.”
Imagine knowing so,little about baseball and logic, that you think this is meaningful analysis
“How many pitchers that have played for the Rockies are in the Hall ?”
Zero?
So, what?
I can understand some of your point with the home vs away stats. But if we take that into consideration.
Then we have to take that into account for every player whoever played in a home run hitting friendly park.
Which would mean any player who played on any of these teams and hit a lot of home runs during their career could not be HoF worthy either. Listed in order of HR friendly parks.
Rangers stadium – Oops! There goes Beltré.
Braves stadium
Red stadium
Dodgers stadium
Yankees stadium – Imagine all of those HoF’ers eliminated!
Angels stadium
Phillies stadium
Twins stadium
And now, finally on that list of the most friendly HR parks Rockies Coors field. The 9th ballpark on the list!!!
You are eliminating a LOT of other HoF players for a poor excuse to eliminate Helton because he played at a numbers skewed Coors Field.
DiMaggio hit almost more home runs on the road (213) than at home (148). Should we say he wasn’t deserving because his stats were skewed because of road games?
See how using a stadium’s stats can be misleading?
Good on all three, all were certainly enjoyable to watch. Slight bias towards Todd Helton, loved watching him play. I won’t even look at the rest of the list, it’ll just infuriate me…
Congrats to all three!
All deserving.
Mark Buehrle to HOF in 2025!!
Beltre is certainly deserving; The defensive accolades, 3000+ hits and almost 500 Home Runs. It’s the other tw9 I’m on the fence about. Perhaps rewarding each player for playing with only one team?
The way I see it, if I’m tasked with building the best roster possible, Mauer is on my short list. Maybe not quite a HOF career, but certainly a HOF player. Helton is more difficult, but I might disrespect first base a bit.
The whole “one team” thing plays favorably for Wright, right? RIGHT? One can only delusionally hope.
I think you should be impressed that he’ll make second ballot because I figured he would be one and done.
The Maurer and Helton selections bode well for Joey Votto
I think Votto was going to get into the Hall of Fame even if Helton never made the Hall of Fame.
I can agree with you it “should” bode well for Votto.
But I believe Votto may have an uphill battle to be elected because of his coarse sense of humor personality. Personally, I love this about him!
But that personality doesn’t bode well with the writers and for that reason I could see him get shafted by the writers..don’t like your personality…so you’re not getting my vote. No matter how good you were or what your stats or career shows.
A message to all you Larry Walker fanboys out there. If Walker is Hall Of Famer then why isn’t Dave Parker?
Walker: 2,160 hits, 383 homers, 1,311 rbi, 230 stolen bases, 7 gold gloves, one MVP.
Parker: 2,712 hits, 339 homers, 1,493 rbi, 154 stolen bases, 3 gold gloves, one MVP.
Neither are HOF they are both one tier below with Parker being the superior player. I typically hate when people play the race card but why are all these mediocre white players by HOF standards like Rolen, Walker and Helton in but guys while superior players like Parker and Carlos Beltran are not? And why did it take Andre Dawson nine years on the ballot to get in when he has nearly 3,000 hits and 500 homers to go along with over 300 stolen bases, 8 gold gloves(more than a few of them in center field) and a league MVP to his credit? When I look at these writers they are all a bunch of middle aged white men.
I totally agree with your Dave Parker argument. Besides his stats, had a cannon for an arm which gets overlooked. Writers wouldn’t touch Parker because of the coke/greenies allegations of the 70s/80s Pirates. Glaring omission from the HOF,as well as Steve Garvey.
Walker was better than Dave Parker. Before you bring up how Larry Walker played at Coors Field lets look at both players career road stats.
Walker in 3,478 AB – .278 AVG, 168 HR, .865 OPS, .495 SLG
Parker in 4,858 AB -, .278 AVG, 169 HR, .775 OPS, .447 SLG
Walker is a legit HOFer. I hate the “played at Coors Field” argument. The fact is he delivered at the plate, doesn’t matter where he played.
You think a guy with less than 400 homers and barely 2,000 hits is a HOFer? That opens the floodgates to all kinds of undeserving players who are Hall Of Very Good which Walker is a poster boy of.
3 batting titles, 2 OBP titles,NL HR leader in 97. That’s a solid resume in comparison to many HOFers. As far as a poster boy for Hall of Very Good? Scott Rolen.
I won’t disagree with you on Rolen. His presence in the Hall is a total bastardization of the once hallowed Hall Of Fame. He should be embarrassed to be called a Hall Of Famer.
Walker is superior to many of his contemporaries. Just start with OPS+, which should eliminate park advantages.
Vlad G 140+
Raines 123
Griffey 136
Dawson 119
Gwynn 132
Sheffield 140
A. Jones 111
Walker 141
141 is excellent, and combined with his fielding, makes him automatic.
JHoward103035 mins ago
A message to all you Larry Walker fanboys out there. If Walker is Hall Of Famer then why isn’t Dave Parker? When I look at these writers they are all a bunch of middle aged white men.
========================
Parker is not remotely close to Walker. Here are some bWAR/650 PAs for comparison purposes:
Walker 5.6
Reggie Smith 5.2
Andruw Jones 5.0
Dewey Evans 4.0
Parker 2.6
Not even remotely close.
Save your nerd stats the HOF is reserved for guys who put up numbers that count.
And who decides which stats count?
Walker’s OPS+ was 141.
Parker’s OPS+ was 121.
NOT close.
Walker was a much better fielder. Parker was good for a few seasons until he got out of shape, and then became a bad fielder.
Walker was a better baserunner. There was nothing that Parker was better at than Walker.
No, it’s reserved for players who the writers liked as friends and treated the writers with kindness and respect.
It has absolutely nothing to do with stats, longevity or playing ability.
It all has to do with which players kissed the ground the writers walked on.
Well, this tells me Joey Votto is a sure thing to enter the hall of fame.
Vito’s HOF case is far less impressive than even Helton’s. You do know the HOF is reserved for the very best to ever play the game and not someone who was a perennial all-star in the era they played. Let’s put Darrell Evans in at this rate, he had over 400 homers.
You are just a chore to deal with. Haven’t used the mute in a while, but I think it is appropriate here.
“You do know the HOF is reserved for the very best to ever play the game and not someone who was a perennial all-star in the era they played.”
It is? You could have fooled me! The past few years have been more of a writers association popularity poll voting process. Than pure very best players to play the game elected votes.
Only Beltre should get it. Helton and Mauer no thanks.
MacB
“Only Beltre should get it. Helton and Mauer no thanks.”
I would agree
But, I also don’t really care
Bartolo snub
I admit – I thought he’d survive one time around. I’m surprised AGonzalez and Reyes fell so flat. Middle of their careers, they were on the track.
I hate the HOF selection process. It’s as much a stain on the game as an cheating/steriod scandal.
Thurman Munson should be in if Mauer is in, comparing both players to number of games caught. Both guys had careers shortened behind the plate for different reasons.
Wagner should have been in the year after Hoffman was inducted.
Beltre automatic HOF with 3000 hits.
Helton should do his induction speech from Coors Field where he had his only shot at Cooperstown. Not a Hall of Famer playing elsewhere.
No way Helton is a hall of famer if he didn’t play his entire career in Denver. His BA was 58 points lower on the road, and his power numbers were good but not hall of fame level outside of Colorado.
A message to all Todd Helton Fanboys: If Todd Helton is such a bonafide HOFer why did it take him only 6 years on the ballot when Fred McGriff couldn’t get voted in by these idiot writers and in fact never even got 40 percent of the vote from these imbeciles.
Quick Career comparison:
Helton- 2,519 hits, 369 homers, 1,406 rbi, no MVP, no World Series Championship.
McGriff-2,490, hits 493 homers, 1,550 rbi, no MVP, one World Series Championship.
Like Dawson McGrifg should have been a second or third ballot HOFer yet he was on the ballot ten years and never even broke 40 percent. Why are all these inferior white players celebrated by these white bred writers and all these ultra deserving black and brown players with vastly superior numbers ignored. I think there is some serious racism in the HOF voting. Al and Jesse need to get on this!
I seriously hope you’re joking. Racism., really? Come on now, you’re smarter than that.
Seriously, how is is that Fred McGriff with vastly superior numbers and post season accomplishments not even break 40 percent in 10 years and white bred Helton cruises in on his 6th vote with clearly inferior numbers. Neither won an MVP and McGriff played well in the postseason and won a World Series, something that can’t be said for Helton. When a man hits 493 home runs and he did it clean he’s atleast second or third ballot, especially when he is 10 hits shy of 2,500 with a solid 284 career batting average.
Like Dawson McGrifg should have been a second or third ballot
=======================
McGriff isn’t half the player that Allen was.
Dawson wasn’t as good as Reggie Smith.
You are really overrating them.
You’re a moron sit. Dawson had nearly 3,000 hits and 500 home runs. Anyone who achieves both is automatically one of the greatest players of all time. Dawson is on the doorstep of both and would have easily cleared those milestones if not for injury. Throw in stealing north of 300 bases, driving in nearly 1,600 runs and winning 8 gold gloves and that is one of the most impressive careers ever. It blows Joe Dimaggio’s career away. Reggie Smith barely cleared 2,000 hits barely cleared 300 homers. Are you some kind of boomer?
Reggie had a better average, better OBP, better SLG and better OPS, better OPS, better K/W and better defender.
Dawson is only in the conversation because he played in the live-ball era, compared to Reggie’s time in the dead-ball era, and because Dawson had 42% more ABs.
Reggie’s WAR/650 was 5.2.
Dawson’s WAR/650 was 3.9.
It isn’t that close.
“Al & Jesse”? Really? Two the most disgusting race-hustlers in history? If there are “donations”(aka extortion) $$ available, I’m sure they would already be on the case.
JHow
“Quick Career comparison:
Helton- 2,519 hits, 369 homers, 1,406 rbi, no MVP, no World Series Championship.
McGriff-2,490, hits 493 homers, 1,550 rbi, no MVP, one World Series Championship.”
Nothing you’ve posted indicates that you understand player evaluation
So, I’m not going to waste time trying to answer your question
I’d recommend you look at wRC+ and not things like RBi
WAR would be better than HR
For starters
Mauer? What a f’n joke. Still waiting for Omar Vizquel to get in. He deserves it waaaaay more than Mauer.
Sheff should be in. Thats baffling. Ticked off enough writers I guess.
Saw Beltre play lots of times. His glove was awesome. Well deserved HOFer,
Mauer a 1st ballot HOF? I’m sorry but come on. He was a great player absolutely. But let me throw something out there. Almost similar stats is another catcher in Jason Kendall. He will never get in the Hall but PO% and hits are very close. They are very closely similar players. Mauer is a product of a guy well liked and was good for a period of time. His stats no way are HOF worthy. He didn’t even have 1000 RBI’s. The Hall is opening up a can of worms now. Guys that are well liked will start to get in. Forget the stats!
Total bastardization of the once great and super exclusive HOF. It started about 15 years ago when they put Jim Rice. It took another 10 years to get Walker in and then last year Scott Rolen. Having all these undeserving players makes me not even want to visit Cooperstown anymore.
Rafael Palmiero GG while starting 28 games at first in ’99. Throw gold gloves out of the equation.
I bet he was golden in those 28 games though.
Jeter
Wonder if the money-obsessed (‘shocker’) commissioner will be at the induction ceremony.
How does sheffield not get in? His career numbers are video gameish. Guy has 300 more career walks than strikeouts. Was he ever rumored to be juicing? I honestly can’t remember.
Yes, otherwise he would be first ballot with his 509 home runs and close to 3,000 hit total but his numbers were inflated by drugs like Palmeiro, Sosa, ARoid and many others and therefore shouldn’t have even been on the ballot anymore and now he isn’t.
Wagner had a 27 WAR and played in 900 innings in his career, the equivalent of 100 games. I can understand an elite guy like Mariano Rivera who also made an impact in the post season but closers in general really don’t belong in the Hall of Fame.
Not sure I’m buying Mauer on a first ballot, nonetheless in the HOF when looking at some others that aren’t. Sheffield on stats alone should be in (I’m sure his edgy persona has much to do with not getting in, but at the end of the day he put up numbers that qualify). And Wagner needs to get in as well. He was still rocking, even his last year. Sure, he had some rough patches with the HR ball, but made up for it in his overall book of work. Those two need to be in more so than Mauer in my opinion.
Whhhhaaaaaaa whaaaaaaa so-and-so didn’t get in but Mauer did!
Mauer got in 1st ballot people…His HOF “worthiness” is hardly debatable. It’s in the books…I would like to hear now why 100% of the voters will not select ICHIRO next year..?? Even though he might be the best to ever play the game!!
Wagner has more strikeouts than Mariano Rivera in 3 fewer seasons. Wagner’s lifetime ERA is 2.31. Rivera, 2.21.
If they named the mfkn trophy for relief pitchers after a guy with a 2.21 ERA over 19 seasons, then a guy like Wagner should have been in early on in his years of eligibility.
The whole HOF selection process is stupid anyway. They need to overhaul all of it. Don’t ask me how.
Joe Mauer…. Don Mattingly. Same player same stats. And he gets in on first ballot. Posada has never sniffed the Hall. What is happening here???? Yes I’m a Yankees fan. But Joe Mauer???? Next to Bench and Pudge?? And Fisk?? It’s actually a disgrace.
I’m sure he’s a nice guy. So congratulations
I dont know, the HOF should equate to must see status when a player was active.
You know, “let’s go to the game because so and so is coming to town” or
“let’s head home early and beat the traffic”…..”ogh let’s hang around one more inning, Ohtani or Judge is coming up” or
“honey let’s go we are going to be late”…”one second I just want to watch so and so’s at bat”
How many people here with who get to the hall a half hour before closing would say we need to make sure we get to the wing housing these guys?
Stats are important of course, but there needs to be a generational quality to it.
Wow, Mauer getting in at all is a joke, but first ballot???
I am shocked that Matt Holliday received only 1% and fell off the ballot.
Billy Wagner and Curt Schilling are in my MLB HOF and so is Lou Whitaker.
Mauer gets in but Andruw doesn’t smh
Congrats to all.
HOF is nothing more than membership based on opinions, mostly from people who have little interest in the game other than a source of income. They key-in their columns and go home to the wife (or husband) and kids or off to the bar. Baseball is a job, a second or third choice to what they thought would be a yearly Pulitzer. Baseball needs a REAL HOF with members chosen by those who play and coach the game, void of socio-political correctness. I have no concern about a player’s private life; what they do there is not reflective of the game unless they engage in nefarious activities as part of the game, and it’s absurd to claim otherwise.
Joe Mauer will be the greatest catcher not tainted by PEDs to play the game for 40 years through at least 2030 as there are no active catchers even close.
Peak 7 Years
1. Gary Carter 48.4 bWAR
2. Johnny Bench 47.2 bWAR
3 Mike Piazza* 43.1 bWAR
4 Ivan Rodriguez* 39.8 bWAR
5 JOE MAUER 39.0 bWAR
*Admitted PED user or strongly linked to PEDs
Tossing the PED users out, in his prime, Joe Mauer is the 3rd greatest catcher in MLB history. He was the greatest catcher of his era, and for a short stint, arguably the greatest player in MLB. That’s why he’s a first ballot Hall of Famer. I’ll admit I’m surprised BWAA felt this way because the career WAR is on the edge. Only 1 in 5 Hall of Famers get elected on their first ballot so that should say everything people need to know about Mauer’s case.
Thurmon Munson? 20% less career bWAR than Mauer. Lower peak. His career was about to be ended by natural decline before the plane crash. His career was already basically over, but Yankees fans……
Buster Posey? 20% less career bWAR than Mauer. Lower peak. I think Posey could have played a few more years and maybe added another 9ish WAR. Still would have been less than Mauer.
Yadier Molina? 25% less career bWAR than Mauer. Below average career hitter. A long career, average bat, defense first catcher. Ranks in the 20-25 range among catchers, historically.
Thurmon Munson? 20% less career bWAR than Mauer. Lower peak. His career was about to be ended by natural decline before the plane crash.
==========================
1-Munson’s hitting at age 31/32 was abut the same as Mauer’s, so you have no idea of whether or not Munson couldn’t have taken the same track as Mauer.
2-Mauer’s bWAR thru age 32 was 47.6 against Munson’s 46.1.
3-Mauer only caught 885 games, while Munson caught 1,263.
4-Mauer’s 7 nest consecutive seasons yielded a 34.9 bWAR. Munson’s best 7 yielded a 35.2.
As a RS, who didn’t even like Munson, I’d say he was every bit as good as Mauer.
Did over 100 comments disappear?
Not resigning Beltre was one of the biggest mistakes in Dodger history.
Beltre got in while being suspended for roids during his career. It’s time to let McGwire, arod, Sosa, Canseco, Clemens , bonds and palmiero in. It’s a museum of baseball, not a museum of ethics. cheating has been in baseball for a long time.
It’s supposed to stand for what is best about the sport, not sleaze bag cheaters.
I don’t argue with people who take the “no roids route” because I do understand their argument. But I would like to point out the every era of baseball has players who looked to gain a competitive advantage by bending the rules. Examples are the spit ball, corked bats, greenies or speed, adoral, trash can bangers, video surveillance…..and on on and on and on
Ruth was not exactly a poster boys for ethics. Cobb was despicable as well. There are many more in the era that are of the same ilk.
I do defend McGwire because technically he didn’t cheat, he played within the rules, before the rules were laid out. I feel he saved baseball, for that alone he is a HOFer.
Mauer first ballot, yet Dale murphy still waits…
If Mauer is in, then Don Mattingly should go in.
If Mauer is in, then Don Mattingly should go in…..
and Steve Garvey
This great news to hear for Helton and Maurer.
Sad to hear Billy Wagner fell short. But hopefully should be able to make it in next year. If not, the baseball writers clique of be a goody two shoes nice player and to them or get blacklisted from the Hall of Fame still rules.
(i.e., Dick Allen)
The surprise here is…Are the baseball writers getting soft on their players steroids stance? Beltre in on the first year? And on a 95.1% vote! I consider Beltre a potential HoF player. But I also had a lot of suspicion on him being a steroid player. Even more so playing during that era and keeping his stats up with those known steroid players. There has to be some doubt to not have him be elected in his first year and with a 95.1% vote.
Baseball is sinking lower in my respect for the game.
This is hypocritical right there with we will ban Pete Rose for betting on baseball. But then partner with and advertise all the sports betting sites and apps during pre-game, post games and during games non-stop!
So, MLB is 100% against players for betting on their games. But want everyone else to bet on their games, stats and players.
MLB is against steroid use and that era. But will now vote a player from that era, with potential suspicion, in on a first time ballot with that high of a vote.
Baseball is becoming a very sad sport.