The Pirates announced the signing of first baseman Rowdy Tellez on a one-year contract. It’s reportedly a $3.2MM guarantee. Tellez, who is represented by Primo Sports Group, can earn an additional $800K in incentives.
Tellez has spent the past two and a half seasons in the NL Central as a member of the Brewers. He connected on 35 home runs as recently as 2022. Tellez’s power numbers evaporated last season, as he slumped to 13 longballs through 351 trips to the plate. His slugging percentage fell from .461 to a fringy .376 mark.
Overall, the left-handed hitter turned in a .215/.291/.376 line in 106 contests this year. That’s clearly insufficient for a player whose profile is built around the bat. Tellez doesn’t offer any baserunning value and rates as a below-average defender at first base. Combined with his career-worst showing in the batter’s box, he was below replacement level in 2023.
Pittsburgh takes a low-cost roll of the dice to see if Tellez can recapture some of his previous form. He carried a career .236/.307/.462 line into last season. While that’s still middling production from an average and on-base perspective, he’d shown legitimate power upside. Tellez’s 2023 numbers may have been impacted somewhat by health questions. He lost a couple weeks in July with right forearm inflammation before sustaining a fracture on the ring finger of his left hand in an outfield collision while chasing fly balls during batting practice. That kept him out of action until the middle of August.
The 28-year-old was eligible for arbitration for a final time this offseason. Milwaukee declined to tender him a contract at a projected $5.9MM salary. He’ll indeed come up shy of that figure on the open market but he’ll get a big league opportunity for a rebound showing. Tellez will surpass six years of service time next season and return to free agency at year’s end.
Pittsburgh had a clear need for first base help. The Bucs trade Carlos Santana at the deadline, sending the veteran switch-hitter to Milwaukee in a move that was necessitated for the Brewers by Tellez’s struggles and injuries. Pittsburgh relied mostly on Alfonso Rivas down the stretch; they waived him at season’s end and lost him to the Guardians. Santana returned to free agency, leaving the potential for a reunion, but the Bucs will take what is likely to be a lower-cost shot on Tellez instead.
A left-handed hitter, Tellez seems a likely platoon partner for Connor Joe. The latter produced a .265/.365/.452 showing against left-handed pitching last year. Tellez owns a .231/.302/.464 career slash versus righty arms.
Pittsburgh’s player payroll is up to roughly $58MM, as calculated by Roster Resource. The Bucs opened the ’23 season around $73MM. GM Ben Cherington said at the Winter Meetings the team anticipates surpassing last year’s spending level. That could leave $20MM+ in further space for the front office, which’ll likely look for a mid-rotation arm and perhaps second base help in the coming weeks.
Robert Murray of FanSided first reported the Pirates were in agreement with Tellez. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com reported it was a one-year deal that guaranteed roughly $3MM and maxed out at $4MM with incentives. Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette specified the $3.2MM guarantee.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Another offseason, another mediocre 1B signing with Pittsburgh.
Yeah, a recent 30+ HR hitter is a terrible addition
You didn’t follow his ‘23 season then, he was awful. That 30 homer season a few years ago will not be repeated
A few years ago?
The 35 HR season was in 2022… just one season removed. He’s got a better shot at 30 HR than anyone on the team other than Cruz and Suwinski. And the contract is negligible at 3.2 million.
I don’t trust the opinion of a guy who can’t distinguish what a year is.
Tellez has massive power. He just is a streaky hitter.
I don’t know I think he is perfect for that ballpark but I don’t see 30 HRs simply gor the fact Conner Joe is gonna get some work vs LH pitching
He’s better as a platoon. He can’t hit lefty’s
Conner Joe is a good hitter, especially in a RH platoon role. IMO.
Good for you PP22!
Rowdy played against my son in HS. Always pulling for the Big Guy!
Connor Joe is a good hitter only in a platoon role.
Connor Joe was second only to Suwinski for called third strikes in baseball
Triolo is a better platoon candidate at 1st than Joe. Apparently no one was watching the Pirates down the stretch and missed his hitting, new stance tweak (not crouching) and power
And he’s a much better fielder than Joe
I’ll call it now:
Tellez: 350 PAs with .213/.298/.475 19 HRs
Joe: 250 PAs with .278/.385/.425 with 8 HRs
I think Joe will do improve his BA and OBP if he’s used in the right role, but I think he’s a candidate for some SLG regression regardless.
@edward my concern with triolo is BABIP. There is no reason to believe he will sustain a .440 BABIP or anything close to it in 2024. Of qualified hitters, Brandon Marsh led the league at .409 and Freddie Freeman was #2 at .366. Even if he is as good as Freddie Freeman or Brandon Marsh, he is in for major regression.
I agree, edwardk64, Triolo is a better choice to play first base
Joe doesn’t have the feel to play first bsse and his range is lacking
Yes but how many of them were actually in fact strikes.
Haines tells batters to take as many pitches as possible during an AB, using the logic that the pitcher will wear down quicker
To answer your question, probably most were strikes
I think you’ll see both Joe and Triolo playing there at different times, though I’m with you, I prefer Triolo over Joe both as a hitter and as a fielder. What sets Triolo apart from nearly all the other rookies was his advanced hitting approach – he was willing to sacrifice power for contact depending on the situation – and this team will need that.
I feel BABIP is a misleading stat; it does not account for what the hitter was trying to accomplish in the AB. In Triolo’s case, he was all too willing to soft serve a blooper to right on a two-strike pitch away which inflates BABIP. Most people interpret BABIP as “being lucky”, but a hitter who consistently can hit the ball the other way will almost certainly have a higher BABIP than one who doesn’t (Bryan Reynolds, for example). In that respect, I don’t expect .440 for a season, but I could see .340 easily.
Triolo seems to better understand how to “let a ball get deep” – i.e. almost intentionally swing late – and seems to have better pitch (or situational) recognition than the other young guys. Pitchers will adjust by pitching Triolo in more if he keeps taking the ball the other way, it will be up to him to recognize that and start turning on those pitches and crushing them.
BABIP isn’t all luck, but a high BABIP is usually paired by high Line Drive and Hard Hit rates. Triolo is more middling in those areas, and his 30% strikeout rate is also a red flag. Triolo could have a big year, but I would be willing to bet that his BABIP is below .400 when 2024 ends. And a lower BABIP will reflect in the triple slash.
Shouldn’t Tellez’s AVG and OBP also improve by being used in a platoon?
Lanidrac, in his breakout 2022 Tellez hit .222/.303/.498 vs RHP. He doesn’t show power against lefties, but even at his best a .200/.300 is a realistic start of his triple slash, he *needs* to make it up in slugging to earn his keep.
That’s still better than what your prediction says, as well as close to his 2023 AVG and OBP against righties. Your prediction is almost exactly what his overall numbers were in 2023.
Lanidrac, Tellez hit .215/.291/.376 in 2023 and I’m predicting he improves to .200/.298/.475 because I think he will play well at PNC, and he has lots of power potential against RHP. The guy will never get on base much and I think the pirates will tell him to take more walks and just commit to his swings when he does, forget worrying about his batting average.
Lest we forget, $3.2 million buys you around 0.6 WAR, Tellez is 0.9 for his career. Projections for next season peg him between 0.7 and 0.8, so he’d need another year like last to really cost them much of anything. If he meets projections, the Pirates get an extra $700K in value based on what they spent.
PiratesPundit- agreed, no matter how you slice it its hard to hate this deal for the bucs. People who wanted Hoskins will not like it, but platooning someone with Joe was always the most likely outcome and Hoskins wouldn’t go for that no matter how much money you gave him.
People who wanted Hoskins were obsessed with a brand name vs. actual value to the overall team. Spend money to spend money.
We both have $100 to last the week: you buy yourself a steak at Morton’s on Monday for lunch, I buy a jar of peanut butter and a couple loaves of bread. You’re walking home by Wednesday with nothing to eat until payday; I’m hating peanut butter, but have a full belly, still driving my car and have $50 to go into next payday. You’ve had one better meal than I have, but how’d you end up in the long run?
Sounds like Varsho.
I called this about 2 weeks back. Cherington was there when he was drafted and may have chose him. He was there last pick and signed for $1m. 1 of those picks a team takes towards the end incase a guy will not sign or medical issues come up. In this case it payed off and most teams should to that draft time
Even Pedro Alvarez had a 30+ home run season, but had a throwing arm of a 10 year old and never lived up to his potential so spare me what Tellez has done in his career
Yeah. This is a typical Pirates signing. It’s Vogelback all over again. Here’s hoping Triolo gets a shot at 1.st
Yes, give Rowdy 2-3 ABs vs RHP, then C. Joe or Triolo.. if they have only about 20 M more to spend, quit talking about needing 2B. They need at least one SP for 10-15M.. Peguero, Triolo or even Gonzalez can play 2B.
He hit like crap at miller park last season. Short RF porch. As a Brewers fan I liked him, hopefully for him the injuries just took their toll. But he looked lost last year at the plate. Many a player has lost “it” in a blink of an eye in MLB. 3.2 mil isn’t a bad parting gift if he stinks again.
Thank you for the predictable comment.
Two years ago it was Tsutsugo. Last year it was Santana. Pirates seem to go with potential rebound guys that they can trade midseason. Didn’t work with Tsutsugo but they got something for Santana. I guess we’ll see how it works with Tellez.
Rowdy is a great teammate, not to be overlooked.
He has the body type for a softball beer league if things don’t work out. John Kruk’s long lost brother.
The deal is pending a physical? Uh, oh.
….and Vogelbach’s twin
He never dissappoints at the all you can eat
We do this instead of developing a long term solution or signing/trading for a 1B with upside. Tellez is available for a reason, and we’re about to find out exactly why.
Tellez has upside. 2022 is his upside. 3m is Nutting. Why would you sign or trade for a long term 1b when you can just pick them up for Nutting. Drafting one just because they play 1b would be awful.
Yeah he is available because he is a FA
@DreamGM who specifically do u feel they’d have been better off signing for 1B who is a FA?
@Tigers3232 I like Rowdy. That’s who I would have signed. If Cutch has to retire or if he can play and throw I would sign another 1b if the market is soft on someone Votto Belt Santana stand out as possibilities.
It’s not about trading the guy at the deadline, the goal is making it to the deadline while in the playoff hunt. Hopefully he can produce and stay all season.
Over under 25.5HR?
@Spaced-Cowboy I’d say the under. Rowdy will mostly start against RHP and Connor Joe will take most of the starts against LHP. I think he’ll still hit well, but not have enough playing time to get to 26+ home runs.
It’s pretty crazy that Pittsburgh isn’t exactly a small market, and other pro sports teams have done very well there. The Pirates on the other hand are not only bad – they are pathetic. Has there been a worse MLB team in the last 25 years? They refuse to commit to players, they refuse to take any risk beyond short term deals and they keep losing year after year.
If I was a Pirates fan, I wouldn’t be a Pirates fan. You can talk about loyalty all day, but the ownership isn’t being loyal to the fans. The only way ownership will ever put forth more effort or sell the team is if fans stop supporting them. If you go to even one Pirates game, you are supporting what this ownership does year after year.
What does the NHL & NFL have that MLB does not?
Pucks n footballs 🙂
Nicely done!
They are still my team and I will root for them no matter what because I remember how exciting it was when they finally became a great team. What you’ve said is mostly true, though they started extending players the past few seasons, and many other small market teams also trade their players before free agency and rarely fork over the cash to keep someone around long term. Cleveland, Oakland, Florida, Tampa and Cinci do the same, and even Milwaukee though they spend higher in certain phases but don’t keep it going and rebuild after their contracts run out.
I compared the records of the Padres and the “pathetic” Pirates since 2013, an eleven year spread. Over that time period, the “pathetic” Pirates won thirteen more games than the Padres. During that time period, the most games the Padres won was 89. The most the Pirates won? 98, there was also a 94 in there. Yet, one team is seen as pathetic while the other team is not. Umm, interesting. That is the trouble with data, it often conflicts with our preconceived notions.
It’s ok, Ryan. You’re 100% right. But now that they’ve taken a deep dive into the dumpster for 1st base, they can get down to the real fun of starting pitching reclamation projects
It’s a special time of year in Pittsburgh, eclipsed only by trade deadline week
Well the Padres were really bad for a long time, so that makes sense.
Since 2010, the Pirates are the 4th worst team in baseball.
Since 2000, the Pirates are the 2nd worst team in baseball.
The Pirates had one little good stretch 7-9 years ago and they had an opportunity to go for it, add necessary pieces to win the division and make the playoffs more than once… and they did next to nothing. They held on, lost a wild card game and that was that. The Royals play in a similar market, and do you know what they did when they had a good team? They added one of the best pitchers in baseball at the time: Johnny Cueto.
Now the Pirates are hoping their young kids turn out.. but name the 3 best proven hitter’s the Pirates have developed in the last 5-10 years?
They don’t spend, they don’t develop well and they refuse to change.
Completely uneducated take on the differences between baseball, football and hockey. Are you 12?
Ryan-The little good stretch was the second best record in the entire major leagues for a three year stretch.
The best team happened to win their division each year.
They had the best record for the wild card each year.
The second and third years they faced the two best pitchers in baseball.
It is better to be quiet and thought stupid than to talk and remove all doubt.
Ryan-The Pirates are one of 8 small market teams.
Only one has won a world championship since 1991.
Only three have won a pennant since 1991.
What is pathetic is that you are comparing baseball to other sports that have salary caps which cause much better competitiveness among all teams.
The Yankees and Dodgers are so drunk with money that it is shameful to go 23 seasons with just one world championship for one and the other 35 years with only a 60 game season championship.
Now that is really pathetic.
Bears? Bengals? Cardinals? Lions? Vikings? Houston? Bills? Falcons? And many more.
And BTW, it’s blatantly obvious that the Pirates owner is not even making a half-hearted attempt to win.
It’s clear NFL is not the gem everyone makes them out to be. Moreover, it’s clear that the MLB has far more parity.
Nutting makes an attempt to win when he has good young players where adding a couple of veterans will put them near the top.
The problem is their development is mediocre at best.
The football teams that you mention have gone up and down the division ladder over the last twenty years.Even teams like the Jets and Giants had stretches where they were good.
The parity in football for championships was skewed earlier by the Steelers then the Patriots for a very long time then the Chiefs,all of which had HOF quarterbacks.
MLB has decent parity for large market and well run middle market teams.But inasmuch as only one small market team has won a WC in 32 years it certainly is not true for those teams,including the well run ones.
Okay, fair points, but it’s still apparent in the fact that twelve teams have never won the Super Bowl. That’s the opposite of parity.
You can’t excuse that by saying the dynastic teams had HOF QBs. Same arguments can be made for baseball.
All the qualifying excuses aside, comparing league to league MLB has demonstrated more parity than any other N. American professional sport.
Spot on. GM BC is doing worse than GM NH. After 2015 GM NH lost his touch/edge.
It’s worth mentioning that KC had a great leader in their catcher (which would be huge to any team) and the very first modern day super bullpen (7-9th)
The Cardinals aren’t a small market team?
The STL Metro has 2.8 million people
Pittsburgh Metro has 2.5 million people
Outside of the Phoenix Coyote fiasco, I’d argue that the NHL also demonstrates said parity at a high level.
I think that Huntington got complacent along with Hurdle when Nutting made the mistake of giving them both four year extensions after two mediocre seasons.
The development of young players was never really good and it may not have improved much under Cherington.
Plus they were fundamentally very sound,well managed,fielded very well,and hit when they needed to.
St Louis has historically had a much longer radius of people to draw from as there are not that many teams even today in the mid west.
They are somewhat like the Red Sox and all of New England.
For large and well run mid market teams,yes.
But in football the mid and small market teams have just as much chance to be championship teams and competitive teams.
I did a comparison last year and I think 44% of the WS winners were large market,53% middle market,and 3% small market.
Those are the facts.
Don’t let them affect your opinion.
Since the city of Pittsburgh only has one baseball team fans who love the game really don’t have any other alternatives except for being a loyal supporter of the team
Mendoza, look, I completely understand your argument here. But, that’s one year. Do the comparison with football over time and it’s worse.
Here’s the main point and I think (?) where we fundamentally disagree: you see league parity only (or perhaps mainly?) in terms of small market wins. I disagree with that being “parity,” which to me is a league-adjusted term, spreading it wins amongst all teams in the league.
Another way to describe my position is this: I don’t care about the market, only the teams themselves. Market doesn’t affect ownership desire to win over profit margin. For you, market size is the main function of the formula for parity (I think).
So, I believe we fundamentally disagree on what league “parity” is at its core. BUT, I respect your position and opinion, and I appreciate the respectful conversation and information you provided with your viewpoints.
Pittsburgh is indeed a small market town, their hockey team sells out in an arena that only seats 18000 people
The Steelers sell out due to their history of Super Bowls
When the Bucs put a competitive team on the field, they draw fans to the stadium, when they don’t, their attendance suffers
Bingo.
I would have to admit my strong bias and that it does affect my outlook.
But I think that we disagree even more than just small market because the size of the market does not affect football because of the salary cap.
Basically,large market baseball teams do not need to go into boom or bust cycles like many of the small market teams.Have the Yankees missed a losing season for 30 years because they are one of the best run teams?Do the Dodgers win 100 games every year because they are,even though they are?
If you were a young executive,and highly sought after,would you,like Ohtani or Counsell,want to go to a wealthy team with a chance to win every year?
You are a fan of a large market team who is competitive every year.Of course you do not care about the market.
There are known knows,known unknowns,and unknown unknowns.It is very difficult for you to relate.
That does not make you stupid or a troll.
I wish that my team had the resources to get the best.
You are a good commenter on this site who tries to have an open mind unlike most.
But it seems to be very difficult for you to see the other side of it.
Posted this on another thread but MLB should either just consolidate into a major market/ deep pockets league or divide divisions by market or financial ability
I mean, what could be better than the Pirates, Royals, A’s and a couple others all in one division
Yeah. It’s sarcasm
Edward- You are brilliant even though you do not realize it.
Sort of like Matisse or Van Gogh.
That would be the fairest way although not sure how it would work geographically.
The small market teams would also get twice as many draft choices as the large market ones who use the small market teams to poach players.
It would also reduce or eliminate the handouts given by the large market teams.It would also reduce or eliminating Nate their whining about paying them.
Last sentence change to-and it would also reduce or eliminate their whining about paying them,
The other two sports – the teams have been on equal footing financially with every other market in the league for the better part of two decades (NHL salary cap) and closer to 3 decades (NFL). Prior to the implementation of both, those franchises had blips of success amid years of bleakness (or in the Penguins’ case, bankruptcy). The NFL has had TV revenue sharing since their merger, which coincides with the Steelers rise; the Penguins were a sorry franchise when Mario Lemieux wasn’t around.
In rough numbers, do you have any idea what percentage of the Dodgers’ overall revenue Ohtani’s contract will be? I can tell you this much, Ohtani’s salary would represent at least 35-40% of the Pirates’ entire operating budget. In LA, Ohtani, at most, could hit 20% of the overall budget. You can’t spend money you don’t have. If anything, fans should be railing against the short-sightedness of the large markets and the player’s union – there are now about 21-22 markets out of the 30 who have no legitimate chance at either signing or keeping a top talent. The number will just keep growing until anyone who’s good will only be able to choose between the Dodgers or the Yankees.
Pittsburgh is exactly a small market huh. True in just a general statement but as a mlb team it is one of the smallest. And keep in mind that many of the similar size markets are only 2 sport towns and some have no nfl or nba instead of nhl. Or they don’t have another team in the same state or 2 hours away. And they have owners smart enough to have bought revenue property around the stadium. Pittsburgh is easily one of the 5 worst markets. And whatever fan base there was previous ownership did everything they could to destroy it. They were awful. And media has brain washed the weak minded Pittsburgh fans how awful Bob Nutting is.
The NFL has extensive revenue sharing, a salary cap, and only 8 or 9 home games a year for which to support the team.
Pittsburgh Pundit: None of what you wrote equals parity. You’re discussing financial equity (which is still isn’t) and assigning the term parity to it.
You seem to say that salary caps lead to success. If that’s true, why are there more teams in the NFL without parity than MLB? And NFL had to increase playoff access to 50% of its league to try to achieve a semblance of parity.
Also, if that’s true that financial equity = parity then how are teams in both MLB and NFL with bigger markets failing?
The answer is that terrible owners mean terrible franchises. The answer is that small markets attack the ever present “financial disparity” rather than the real problem: your owner is horrible.
Nothing can make your owner care more or hire better. Nothing can make him spend more. So, the real question is: why should good teams/franchises/owners be punished by restricted spending because cheap owners refuse to pay
The problem, imo, is not financial equity.
Pittsburgh *IS* a small market compared to most of the other MLB cities, and if the fans they have stop supporting them, they’ll have even less money to spend on the team and make the problem even worse. If you want them to spend more, then the fans need to spend more on them, whether it’s physical attendance, merch, TV, etc.
Maybe they could spend somewhat more on the Major League payroll than they do, but it can’t be several tens of millions more without falling into the red.
St. Louis is a baseball town that supports the Cardinals well out of proportion of the actual metro population. As such, while St. Louis is a small market, the Cardinals are not a small market team.
Pittsburgh is not a baseball town. If anything, they’re a football and hockey town.
If you look at *only* their competitive balance money (free money), they could spend at least twice as much (up to three times, depending on the year) annually than they do. That’s not including their budgeted allotment for contracts.
So, small market, comparatively speaking yes. But the problem, imo, has nothing to do with salary caps or financial disparities. They’re not spending the free money they get now…. Again, terrible ownership with a lack of competitive drive.
You guys are funny
I’d love to see your line-item accounting of “free money” given out by the large markets to the small. The first $13 million of any payments to a recipient go to pay the team’s union benefit obligations.
I know in NYC the world ends at the edges of the five boroughs; but the reality is that the Yankees could spend $500 million in total operating expenses every year and still make more money than a Pirates’ team spending $300 million. The Pirates are trying to increase their revenue streams (around the stadium development a la the Battery in Atlanta), but will never be able to make the same money back from their investment as the Braves do.
Without the “free money” many markets would be operating in the red at current payroll + expenses. So you’re saying the Pirates could feasibly spend $225 million each year (3X last year’s payroll) on the MLB payroll alone? I’d suggest, based on the Pirates’ market, expenses and best possible revenue each year that even a $150 million yearly payroll would have them in a situation where they’re post-dating checks and hoping they’ll clear. Same goes for most of the rust belt – Cleveland, KC, Milwaukee – they gamble a little extra expenses to hope to see return on investment, then end up having to pull back when that doesn’t result in a championship or any long-term market gains.
Okay, first of all, I said three times the amount in certain years, I did not say last year. Nonetheless, there have been multiple articles written on the share revenue that goes to teams and it’s over $100MM just to be a recipient. That’s quite literally free money.
If spending <$50MM will put them in the red, I submit sports team ownership should be taken away immediately. Research your Pirates and their ownership’s blatant disregard for improving the team with the tens of millions he is not utilizing each year, which is given to him by big market clubs.
Again, your battle is with terrible ownership, not equitable finances.
St. Louis has at least two mid-market cities within their geographic area: Memphis and Little Rock. Memphis is bigger than Pittsburgh in population, Little Rock is about half the size. If the Cardinals were limited in available fanbase to only the St. Louis metro area, they would be hurting financially. Given the franchise’s historical success, they have a wider national following. In other words, there’s a better chance of St. Louis getting revenue outside their market than the Pirates, not to mention that the Cardinals have a larger number of available people to attend games.
The Steelers have a huge national following and often fill other teams’ stadiums; the Cards do better than most in that respect.
The NFL has an unprecedented amount of parity, there are still legitimately 22 teams who could make the playoffs with a month to go in the season. Salary caps are about budget certainty, there is a natural side-effect that talent becomes more evenly distributed around a league – most people could name a “star” on any given NFL franchise, few could tell you anyone who’s played for the A’s last year. Lack of parity in either sport falls more on player personnel than lack of spending – i.e. dedicating too much money to a small group of players who underperform. As you say, the Jets poured too many resources into one player at the cost of depth – they didn’t fail because they were unable to afford the player.
In the NHL’s case, the salary cap has promoted local market growth by allowing players to stay as the “face” of a given franchise. There is no way Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin or Connor McDavid are with the franchises that drafted them without a salary cap. Player consistency encourages things like jersey sales, knowing you’ll be able to wear that jersey to games for years to come without looking foolish. (I ought to know, I own a Pirates’ Gerrit Cole jersey.)
Decades of data have proven the salary cap (which I never mentioned as a remedy to baseball’s inequities, BTW) has grown their respective sport’s popularity and market as more teams can be viably competitive in any given year. In baseball’s case, the genie is probably already out of the bottle – small market teams have learned how to turn a meager profit while large markets continue to rake in the dough, complain about funding the rest of the league (without with they wouldn’t have a product to sell) and pointing to expertly-run franchises such as Tampa Bay that small markets can compete. Were the Yankees forced to choose between Aaron Judge and Gerrit Cole, one of those players would have to play elsewhere and would make that team immediately better at the expense of the Yankees’ record. If Cole is worth 6 wins, the Yankees lose 6 more games and the Pirates wins 6 more; the Pirates are on the cusp of the playoffs in 2023 with that player. That is parity.
The real problem: people like you drink too much MLBPA and national media Kool-Aid.
An “unprecedented” amount of parity by citing expanded playoffs? MLB can simply do the same thing. The funniest part is, even with all the salary cap and half the league in the playoffs, none of it amounts to parity, which is demonstrated in results.
MLB has more parity than any of the other professional sports, despite NFL trying to stack the deck heavily. 12 teams have *never won* the SB. 4 teams have never even made it to the dance!
Sir, that is not parity. Your perception is that it’s more equal because your NFL team is performing better than baseball; but it’s because of the ownership and management of the franchise.
Here’s one of many articles (some have Nutting’s disparity even greater) that depicts the amount of money Nutting pockets instead of spends….
marcnormandin.com/2022/04/11/the-pirates-are-makin…
Until Bob Nutting (and like owners) makes any kind of concerted effort to win, talking about financial equity is pointless because you will have no success anyway. Moreover, you can’t even assess if they *can be* competitive until he actually, ya know, tries to be competitive.
You forgot Choi. What a great addition he was. He hit for a week or two.
You know this is a platoon situation and I’m not an every day starter…
Another fat boy first baseman signing with Pittsburgh.
“ Pittsburgh takes a low cost roll of the dice “
Bob Nutting’s personal motto
time to get Rowdy!
So many better options. Santana, Hoskins, Cron, Walsh…
Vomit
I would have taken a flier on Walsh, but I suspect there were some mitigating factors in those discussions – his health, other teams also interested (he’s probably only getting a minor league contract at this point) who offered a better situation for him, like being closer to home, an opt-out, things like that.
Any of those other guys you mentioned would essentially be buying one $20 lottery ticket and hoping to win $100,000 vs. buying 5 $1 tickets and hoping to get back $100. FYI, your odds are much better with the latter.
I predict a riot
If I had a nickel for every time in the last few years the pirates signed a big boy, fan favorite, 1B from the brewers. I would have 2 nickels
Bragger
Let’s start a pool to determine who it will be next year. I’m gonna start off by saying Garrett Cooper.
Lyle Overbay and Jeromy Burnitz were also former Brewers greats who went to Pittsburgh when they had nothing left, though neither were fat. It’s weird they like to pick up scraps from them.
Reminds me of the fat guy relay race we used to feature at the end of track meets back in school- all shot and djscus throwers. A Rowdy-Choi baton pass would be fun. Do they also feature pierogi races in Pitt?
Why not try a bit harder and make a trade the team owes it to the fans
Because this team has bigger holes than just first base. Why go and trade your prospects now when you can’t guarantee anything beyond the top 2 guys in a rotation.
Let’s trade just to trade
That’s how you fill holes, though, is trade excess for positions of need… No one is saying to offload their top prospects but not everyone will make the lineup in the next few years.
Please tell how you were able to gauge the effort that wasn’t spent.
Who are you giving away for who? Who who. Who who.
Aiming high. Another Bucs type signing and Endy needs arm surgery now
Rowdy. Pirates. Words that go together well. Of course, brewer was a good fit too.
Just make sure there’s always a Polish and 20-oz Yeungling in the on deck circle for him. He needs that more than pine tar and bat weights.
That’s brutal
My mute trigger finger is ready
Absolutely no need for this signing at this time. Tellez simply isn’t good and there are more 1B options than teams that need a 1B.
Brandon Belt, Donovan Solano, Dominic Smith are all still out there. I’d even bet on a guy like Wil Myers turning it around and getting back above 100 ops+ before I’d go Tellez.
Pirates know what they are doing in this case.
what the heck?
Dom Smith? Wil Myers?
Rowdy Tellez 100x better pickup than them.
I like the signing. think he can do well at PNC
We’ll see if Goku is the Knowledgable One. If Myers has a significantly better year that will be impressive and mlb teams should look into hiring you if your other suggestions are as strong as this. Smith has a better chance.
I gave Rowdy my endorsement. Higher ceiling and solid floor.
Those players you mentioned probably want more money than BC was willing to pay.
And thank god for that. To sign either would have been a waste of money. Smith has improved his fielding, but was still a 0.9 WAR player. We already had him on the roster, so to speak, with Connor Joe.
Myers hasn’t been good for the better part of a decade (despite being like he was). Last year he was exceptionally pathetic, to the point that the Reds released him when they didn’t have a 1B. Nobody bothered with him then, at best he’ll get a minor league contract with an opt-out – which would have been more of the same in regards to the Pirates looking for scraps.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not especially impressed with this signing and getting Santana-like production out of him is about as good as it’s going to get at the plate; his defense is adequate at best. It does still give them room to sign Cutch, get a middling SP and a rebound candidate SP, which is fine because none of the available 1Bs were going to turn the Pirates into a playoff team even without the injuries.
There still out there. Only HalosHeaven realizes how good they are.
Hi everyone, super random, and I know this isn’t necessary, but I’m new to the forum/site. I’m in a different career path now, but I still follow actively and I have family who have played professionally, both in the minors and majors. I’ve also got family currently in the “business” as we speak.
Enough “boasting”, looking forward to talking baseball with everyone.
Look forward to the inside information 😉
And big welcome to the site.
@whacamoley You must have joined the family business of playing in the MLB or running teams. Haven’t seen ya around.
Welcome. So multiple people in your family have talent but you don’t. Not seeing the boasting.
Welcome but all the family in the business is unnecessary. No one cares doesn’t make your opinion any more important than anybody else’s
Just enjoy the site. Provide your opinion when you feel & be respectful. Or don’t & troll either way have fun with it.
I once stayed at a Holiday Inn, that doesn’t make me an expert on lodging
LOL good to know the Pirates aren’t trying to compete next year
You’re right. If they wanted to win they would have signed Ohtani /s
Yeah, that’s best left to the other teams. Pirates are more like those teams the Harlem Globetrotters used to play.
There’s no getting around how awful he was last season, but that power still has to be there, if they can tap into some of it. 3M is very cheap for a 1B who won’t play every day considering Santana got twice that. I wonder how much Belt is asking for, he was my choice but if this signing lets them spend more on pitching, I’m fine with it.
PNC park is perfect fit
easily crank 20
I don’t mind it. Could see him rebound next year. Only a year removed from a 30 home run campaign with a 113 OPS+.
Pirates should trade two of their best prospects for a #2 starter.
Oh wait that’s how you end up with Chris Archer.
At least you can say you did something though.
Unless you are a rangers fan your team failed to win a championship as well
Archer was more of a 3.
DJL 3b
Soto Rf
Judge Cf
Verdugo Lf
Torres 2b
Rizzo 1b
Stanton Dh
Wells C
Volver
Right left batting order
I think Rizzo and Verdugo would should be switched.
Rizzo do not make contact
Gotta break up the Ks.
Slowest, oldest and the most mediocre lineup in baseball. Best of luck
When is O’Neil Cruz getting traded?
Maybe 4 years from now. Unless he’s extended, then 6.
Any way the Halos can snag him by May of 2024?
He’s much too young for the Angels.
Rowdy, Ford and Vogelbach, don’t the trio come in one pack?
Does everyone realize this will be a platoon guy and not an every day hitter?
Yes so basically it limits who else can be brought in as well. They really need to add a true impact bat now for the OF. Time will tell
Really? Another OF? So who would you bench: Suwinski, Reynolds, or Davis?
Don’t count out a possible Cutch return as well
Pirates have already publicly stated Davis is catching this year.
Davis is catching, with Endy out.
BC has repeatedly said that he wants to bring in another outfielder
Until Suwinski learns how to hit left handed pitchers, he’ll be platooned
Plus his 171 ks doesn’t help either
Who do you propose they go get? No top guy is coming here to platoon with Suwinski, CFs are expensive, even when they don’t hit well (if you’re suggesting we move Jack over to RF).
They already have a true impact bat for next year, Cruz can transform this lineup. If he stays healthy, I don’t believe it is stretch to get .235, 20 HR, 65-70 RBIs out of him. Every FA outfielder who can do that is well north of $13 million per season. And at this point, what does a bat matter when the rotation is still in tatters?
They don’t care. They like to complain. I think some people are still copy and pasting things from 20 years ago and just changing the names
Will they pay him by the pound?
Bobcc
Muted 1
Bob- No,but he has a limit at the post game spread and has to pay by the pound for any food over it.
Vogelbach had the same clause in his contract.
It is called the Santa clause since they first applied it to him when he would sneak food.
Hmmm, not sure I like this move. IF he hits anywhere near 2022, a solid get. That is a big IF though. My major concern is how many errors will Cruz and others will have on the year with Rowdy handling the 1B position. He makes Triolo looks like a superstar when comparing their 2023 stats lol
If he plays a ton of 1b. Hopefully they bring in a good 1b if he is bad. I can’t recall.
Vogelbach 2.0
That’s fine with me. Vogey was not bad in Pittsburgh. Kinda wish we kept him, but we got Holderman out of it, so I’m 100% fine with it now.
I am sure they can get him back.
Pirates gonna pirate
Yep another excellent under the radar move.
I was hoping for a trade for Naylor from Cleveland. If this guy has a decent first half he will be gone at the deadline otherwise DFA.
It is reported that Davis was demanded for as part of a Naylor trade. No thanks.
Were did you read they?
Naylor would be gone at the 2025 deadline with that thinking. Not worth giving up prospects if you can’t contend.
Why don’t the pirates sign Goldschmidt and defer his pay until 2035?
Old and expensive 1b.
The incentive pay is deferred until 2029.
Who?
– Josh Donaldson
Solid bounce back candidate, could be a cheap source of dingers for the Buckos.
Bucs need to appear like they are trying, some players are good enough to be major leaguers but not good enough for competitive teams to sign them- thus you consistently get teams like the Pirates signing players like Rowdy Tellez.
It’s strange to admit mediocrity invites mediocrity when it’s all the same league, but sometimes the truth is unappealing.
Not to defend them as they have had so many years of mediocrity but the fact is they are far from a big market team.
With a limited budget and the usual suspects scooping up all the stars, moves like this are a necessity. Besides he is only 28 and just one year removed from 35hr and he does take walks at a decent rate. He could end up being a great fit with Cruz
Appears to me they are trying.
They will be trying if they have to slightly overpay for a decent starting pitcher and they get one.Like it or not the rates for mediocre plus ones are through the roof.
We have big market teams and owners like Cohen to thank for that.
It did work for the Rangers for their first WC in 62 years.
Money does buy the best players.
There are bargains still available that cost less than 10m per year. Trades are another option. They may still have to overpay if they key in on someone that has better options like they did last year.
Question
Why is the Pirates payroll $75m while the Mariners payroll is 125m, and their owners worth the same (1.1b)?
Maybe ask these questions before crying about big market clubs?
Probably because the team income isn’t the same, like the local TV deal for Seattle is about 40 million more. A team’s income has nothing to do with the owner’s personal wealth.
Maybe do more research before assuming.
Maybe team income is tied to performance and entertainment on the field, and the Pirates don’t draft well enough or sign anyone worth while to sell tickets and to generate TV income.
Damn, what a concept.
But easier to cry and say LA wahh
Yankees-It is pretty clear that you have no concept of business and income versus expenditures.
Yankees and Dodgers are drunk with money and many of their fans have no concept of value.
You especially.
I think you have it backwards my friend, it is you who is fiscally incompetent.
Income is based on TV/tickets. What drives those sales? Good players. How do you get good players? Drafting primarily, and signing good players.
There are multiple examples of team owners who have lower net worths than the Yankees and Dodgers, who have great TV deals and attendance. They are mutually exclusive.
Team performance is not tied to owner wealth. So my point is, stop crying about big market teams, because it is irrelevant. The pirates and such suck because they suck, not because they are at a disadvantage financially.
Sorry “friend”
Yankees have the best TV deal in baseball.Dodgers probably second.
Why is that?
Do they win a lot of World Championships?
No,that cannot be.
Do you think that it has something to do with the number of people in their service area?
Maybe it could be that,”friend”.
You’re just po’ed because these teams have to pay “the whiners” so that they can just pretend that there is league parity.
Do the Rays suck too?
Or are they just smarter and better than your Yankees?
You think that you are smart but you just cannot accept reality.
Or you are just plain stupid.
Take your choice,” friend”.
The television market in the Pittsburgh region doesn’t attract enough viewers, because the population is only a fraction of that of NYC.
Pittsburgh, the city’s population is only about 3 million people
NYC is triple that
Every owner is rich lmao
You ever run a business? Owner’s worth is capital, payroll is operating. Capital is normally not spent on operating. If you do, you’re losing money. You can lose money short term, but to keep draining capital into operating is not a wise business move.
You’re missing my point, I understand completely.
My point is the reason your business sucks (the pirates) because of frugality, not the other way around.
You must spend, to earn. How can you sell TV deals when your 3 hitter is Rowdy Tellez
TV market mostly determines payroll unless your owner is near death.
Brewer fan who also knows the truth.
Cynically speaking some owners view their team as a pure business investment and thus they anticipate decent viewership from tv deals, especially when they play larger market clubs who bring in more viewers, and they get profit participation from the league. As long as they sign someone here and there, as long as they try to use their draft picks effectively, they can pocket the rest of the money and point out that they can’t spend their way into a good team- but the truth is they consistently trade their best core players for relative scraps off the veteran/prospect heaps and explain it away as their pitcher or hitter that’s turning into a star was going to get too expensive and their trade value was at an all time high.
Guys like McCutchen and Cole, etc.
The reality is they probably could have convinced those guys at younger ages to sign extensions, built a formidable core and competed. But it would require increasing payroll by $50 million or more per season.
The Pirates ain’t in that kind of baseball business.
TTO- Many owners do,even some of the large market ones.
That is their right as businessmen.
Some have so much money that they can pay outrageous prices for mediocre players.
The Pirates signed their whole young outfield including McCutcheon to early extensions.That is when they had one of the top three in baseball.They were one of the first teams to extend young players in this manner.
It is also the time when their total team payroll was over $100 M for about three years.
Cole felt shortchanged getting the middling rate after his second year and never really enjoyed Pittsburgh during his five years there.The Pirates took the best deal they could get before TJ attacked him.
McCutcheon was traded in his early 30’s for Reynolds.They would make that deal 100 times as Cutch started getting hurt somewhat regularly.
The same with Neal Walker who went to the Mets.
Trillionaire Team Operators quite frankly do not understand the economics of all baseball teams even if they try.
The good thing about Nutting is he has stabilized the Pirates as an entity and hopefully they can get back to a 3-4 year long period where they are competitive for playoff positions.That is all that their fans can really hope for under the system that runs baseball.
Probably because the owner’s worth isn’t tied to payroll – in fact, it can’t be. A majority owner is still beholden to the rest of the ownership group, a budget that exceeds revenue would never be passed by said group, because it would ensure they’d lose money. When a team is in the red, the bills have to be paid via a cash call, each owner is responsible for their prorated share of the needed money. If they can’t make the cash call (i.e. don’t have the money, or enough money), they essentially lose their shares to whoever comes up with the dough to pay the bills.
Jeffrey Loria did as much with the Expos; the market could not sustain the team’s spending and Loria dumped his personal money into the team and bought nearly 100% stake in the team.
If your area only has 2,000,000 fans to draw from, with a lower average income than a place like San Diego, how could you possibly generate enough revenue to cover your expenses from year to year? It’s not like either of the franchises you mentioned would ever be able to grow their fanbases enough with additional investment to sustain $250 million MLB payrolls. So Bob Nutting starts kicking in $100 million of his own money each year out of the goodness of his heart for higher payrolls, sees a $50 million in extra revenue return on that – and is worth $0 in 20 years.
Came here for name puns or at minimum deferred money jokes. Left disappointed.
Pittsburgh getting all Rowdy.
None of them are blue chip prospects, but the Pirates seem to have a lot of corner infield guys in the minors. Maybe one of them turn into a starter? I can see Malcolm Nunez getting a chance this year if healthy.
I like the optimism.
Tellez, Voit and Voglebach – good start to a beer league team (if you make them buy the beer!)
Well , Pirates are Rowdy.
When was the last time it wasn’t a longshot before the season for the pirates to win the world series
Ever since the killer B’s
2016
I thought it said ‘Padres’, I spilled some of my beer…
♪All my Rowdy bats have settled downnnn♫♪
If Will Craig didn’t make that mindless play, would he have been given a longer rope? His bat was great in the minors with over 100+ rbi. No one has had the pedigree offensively that he did for the Pirates, but I think he got the ax prematurely. Instead we’ve had year after year of throwing something against the wall hoping it sticks.
Rowdy has the power tool, but that’s about it.
They weren’t impressed with Craig before that play.
He was only half the problem on that play. The catcher throwing the ball into right field instead of first base is what ultimately cost them more.
Actually,the bad throw was caused by Frazier being very late at getting over to first base.
It does not excuse the stupid mishap by Craig as all he had to do at the end was walk back to first base and tag the bag.
He was a fairly good AAA hitter but it is telling that no major or minor league team picked him up after being released.
I always thought Perez should have been given maybe 20-25% of the blame for that play’s outcome. Tag the guy that’s next to home plate, don’t sail the throw. Instead they both played like pre Morris Buttermaker Bad News Bears.
Nice signing. Sure mediocre D but he easily could crank out 25+hr and will get more plate appearances than people seem to think. 1B and DH. And he is only 28.
By June, we’ll be laughing about this signing. Hell, I’m already laughing.
Never ran out a ground ball in his entire time with the Brewers.
Having to sign with Pittsburgh might motivate him to work and play hard.
I feel like Rowdy Tellez is a quintessential Pirates signing. That said the plucked Carlos Santana off the scrap heap last winter and he had a good enough season to flip him at the deadline so there’s no reason to believe Tellez can’t be the same
There are better scrapheap signings available in the free agent market Mancini, Cooper, Santana or Aguilar who may be able to contribute defensively as well. Even converting some of the end-of-life third basemen might have been a better choice.
Maybe, but they are probably looking at the fact that Tellez is only a year removed from a 35 Home Run season
Are you of the opinion that any of those guys would produce exceedingly better numbers than Tellez? Enough to justify a contract that’s twice as expensive?
I’m not a huge fan of the guy, but this really is like buying the Great Value version of something over a brand name. With the right cook, GV bacon tastes just as good Hormel, for a couple of dollars less. The Pirates are really in no position to spend all their grocery money on what essentially would be an overpaid 1B. There are better places to risk payroll money, like a few more SPs.
It’s an even year…
2018 OPS+ 153
2020 OPS+ 139
2022 OPS+ 113
Teller is a good signing,if only so he cannot hit against Pirate pitching next year.
His power production two years ago would be the best for the Pirates since Pedro Alvarez.
I am concerned about his fielding or lack thereof and the money saved needs to go into a good starting pitcher
They also need to add another starter so that they only need to rely on one from the youngsters until mid season.
He’s perfect for the Pirates.
Pirates clubhouse is about to get Rowdy!
Also, obligatory post about 3 million dollars of his contract being deferred until 2040. Rowdy will only be making 200k.
I think Votto would have been the better choice at first for the Pirates.
Hopefully some of that remaining cash is for cutch & Jack Flaherty are part of that remaining $30 mm and a 2nd mid rotation arm right now its Keller Gonzalez,(Flaherty) (Seth Lugo level starter-LHP prefered) and one of Priester,Ortiz Roansy Faltner
Hard pass on Flaherty. He’s had more success in the past than Roansy, but after seeing him pitch with Baltimore, he’s on the same track – nibbling around, running up counts, not getting outs. We can call up Roansy and have that same pitcher – younger even – for about $14 million less.
Frankie Montas would be more worth an overpay to me than Flaherty, for example. Coming off his first major injury with a better track record both on and off the field than Flaherty. You probably could get Montas and Eric Lauer for roughly the same as what Flaherty is asking right now. I gotta be honest, with 3 spots still to fill, I’d rather the Pirates throw numbers at this problem and find someone serviceable vs. putting all their eggs in the Flaherty basket and watching him implode.
I was kind of surprised at how infrequently he strikes out. He is not a contact savant or anything, but I would have guessed he struck out more often, considering he swings for the fences and has such a low batting average.
Not the first baseman I was hoping for. Seems like another Vogelbach to me, but I haven’t watched him too much.
Santana, Vogelhoss, and now Ryan Tellez? It’s an embarrassment when there has been 1 single back to back season of 1+ WAR from 1B for this team from the same player in 23 seasons (LaRoche at a meager 1.3 and 1.5).
Also this man is 270 pounds.
But probably faster than LaRoche. Vogelback pushing 300 lbs. definitely was.
Honestly, I just want some consistency at the position. No more 35 year old has beens, 270+ pounders, and non 1B trying to play 1B all on 1 year deals.
Not a great signing but if he returns to 2022 form then its a great deal
with this money they are saving on these low signings maybe they can put a big signing into pitcher. here is hoping.
I think it’s a great signing.
Our definition of great is probably different.
It is a typical type of signing for the pirates. Hope he does well enough to bring back some low grade talent. But also, if he is doing well enough he is cheap to keep if the team is making some sort of push. That isn’t a bad signing. Just not a great one.
Who would be great?
someone who is likely to be above average rather than hoping they are average.
Yamamoto
Bauer
Bellinger
Imanaga
Belt
..
…
Those guys will be in demand. It’s usually not great to bid higher than any other team was willing to. Bauer might be cheaper than he should.
I agree Dream, you just asked who would be great from my point of view. Bauer would probably be the only one that is semi-realistic from the players point of view and thats only to get him back in the MLB. I’d really love to lock him in to a 10years of control at 25m AAV with some triggered opt-outs. Something like 8y + two options or something. Likely, no but would be something I would think would be great.
Pirates have few truly bad signings at the time the deal was done because most of them we know are sign and hope they do well enough to trade.
If you like a replacement level player for $3.2M then I guess.
I don’t know the reason that they no longer have Alfonso Rivas, but personally I would rather give the job to an unknown than a Vogelbach or Tellez type.
Not a bad signing, but not a great one. Better than what the team had available and little financial risk. Hopefully he turns out as good as Vogelbach and Santana signings the last two years. He should form a solid platoon with Joe.
I’d really like the Pirates to still add a bat. It could still be a First Baseman and Tellez ends up DH.
How about Votto 😉
If you were Votto would you rather play for Reds Jays than Pirates? How about a projected playoff team or Pirates? How about retiring only having played for 1 team or the Pirates? I like Votto if he is interested.
I’d take Votto in a heartbeat, but I don’t think he has any interest in playing for the Pirates.
I think it’s more than likely an outfielder now that Davis will be almost exclusively behind the plate next season. That opens up a lot of at-bats in the outfield. Would think right now the starting outfield is Reynolds/Bae/Suwinski, so a right handed outfield or first base bat makes the most sense.(Joe could also platoon in the outfield).
Are pop ups now a positive stat for a hitter?
Yes depending on ballpark.
Shame on you Dream.
Crazy world when $3.2M is a “low-cost roll of the dice”.
Would it have been better to have kept Miguel Andújar at 1b for $1.7?
@Human – No to Andujar at first.
Yes. Andujar was great hitting-wise in AAA yet Pittsburgh let him rot.
Yes
As a brewers fan.. the pirates can have him
Always playing with fire when a DFA comes back and plays his old team. Look for Rowdy to do some damage back at American Family Field.
For his sake he needs 10 yrs service time but that’s a long shot given his horrendous overall value.
Is 97.1% of it deferred?
Has there ever been a guy that is more Pittsburgh than Rowdy? I’m fairly sure he should be paid by the city to be the mascot.