The Pirates announced that they have signed catcher Ali Sánchez to a major league deal. They also announced their claim of right-hander Roddery Muñoz, which was previously reported. Their 40-man roster is now at 38.
Sánchez, 27 in January, spent 2023 with the Diamondbacks in a non-roster capacity, getting outrighted by that club in January. He went on to have a solid season in Triple-A, getting into 67 games and hitting 11 home runs. He walked in 9.7% of his plate appearances while only striking out at a 15.7% clip. His .311/.375/.492 batting line in the hitter-friendly Pacific Coast League translated to a wRC+ of 108. The Bucs were evidently impressed enough with that performance to add the backstop directly onto their 40-man roster.
He already has some major league experience, though a miniscule sample of just seven games, five with the Mets in 2020 and then two with the Cardinals in 2021. He has generally been considered a glove-first catcher, so the nice showing at the plate in 2023 makes him a potentially interesting under-the-radar pickup for the Bucs. Sánchez is out of options, so the Pirates will have to keep him on the active roster and won’t be able to send him to the minors without first exposing him to waivers.
The catching situation in Pittsburgh is somewhat in flux at the moment, with prospects Endy Rodríguez and Henry Davis both having debuted in 2023. Neither of those two hit very much in their first big league action, but Rodríguez at least showed well defensively. Davis only caught two innings at the major league level, spending most of his time in right field. The club has maintained that they still think of him as a catcher going forward, but he’s clearly a work in progress. Jason Delay has played 127 games for the club over the past two years, mostly in a backup role, though he still has options. Perhaps one or two of these guys will get pushed to Triple-A as Sánchez takes on a backup role at the big league level.
If Sánchez can stick on the roster, he can be a long-term piece for the club. He has less than a year of service time and therefore still has six seasons of club control.
Wow… trade on the horizon?
So Henry Davis seems to definitely not be seen as a catcher going forward.
Doubtful Ali Sanchez puts pressure on that. I’d guess a depth piece.
But why give him a major league deal? If he was depth a minor league deal would have been smarter.
Or.. Sanchez is there as a defensive balance (or even mentor) to Davis.
I’m thinking Henry can do the 1st base duties with Endy and Sanchez sharing the catching. Davis could fill-in in the event of an injury.
Davis has never played first base but Endy has
The knock on Davis is that he’s not particularly good at catching the ball. He could end up like Ryan Doumit at 1B.
And what’s the point of stashing a perfectly good back-up catcher at AAA when you could use one of the young guys to get some pitching?
Cherington has said on two occasions in the past couple weeks that the goal is to get more catching time for Davis and that “his bat was ahead of his glove”
Uh, ok
And I thought the rub with Davis was his inability to throw runners out
Ah, yes, good ole Ryan No-Mitt
I’d like to see them use Triolo as the primary 1st baseman next year. I think he’ll show more power next year. He started elevating the ball more in September.
His D is wasted at 1B… he’d be more valuable at 2nd or maybe as a trade chip for pitching as Hayes has him blocked at 3rd.
And Delay will be playing at Indy
Delay was a great second catcher, no reason to move on or seek an upgrade.
Hole-I think that he did a good job overall last year.The second half he did not hit well but he did very well the first half.
He did not hit well at all in 2022 but who knows he may be better.
He is a pretty good catcher and knows the pitchers well.
He gets denigrated by a lot of the posters on this site but I say if it’s not broke don’t fix it.
I think that Sanchez would be a good AAAA player to have as a backup to the backup while on a minor league contract.
I doubt that he is any better than that.
I don’t see them keeping 3 catchers on the roster, Delay will be the odd man out especially considering Sanchez signed a major league contract
Yet Ben keeps saying he is a catcher.
Maybe that’s to make the Marlins think he can catch?
2nd time they signed Sanchez
Waiver claim 1st time but yes 2nd team appearance.
Endy Rodriguez for Eury Perez. who says no first?
Me, no
Maybe not that exact deal, but if Endy is the chip that gets a starter like Perez then so be it. Gotta get creative with the price of FA pitchers so far this off season.
Even if BC has made up his mind that Davis will start 2024 at AAA as full time catcher, he still has Sanchez & Delay for the Pirates if Rodriguez is traded.
@Terrier umm, still no. I’d be ok with Davis and Williams for Perez though. Davis is in a limbo positional way. He’s ugly behind the plate and in the OF. DH is for McCutchen. So, Atlanta would definitely consider Davis and Williams for Perez. Gives them a pitcher who could take Perez spot and a chance to get Davis time at catcher and/or 1B. Braves love long term deals when it comes to trades, this is probably the best trade Pirates could offer without blowing up their future. Endy is their future and I don’t see Davis in it.
Atlanta?
Oh Miami, I was close with the NL East division at least. Miami could use Davis :). Give them a potential hitting catcher like JT Realmuto was with them. Plus a back rotation pitcher.
Not smart to trade your first string catcher.
Keep Davis for his hitting potential.
Skenes will be your ace and the Pirates need way more than one starter.
Not smart to trade young players unless you have a position surplus.
Ask Neil Huntington about that.
Mendoza line: Why keep Davis? Sure seems like an Elias Diaz motive all over again. Williams is just another back of the rotation arm in the system. Pirates have a surplus of that with Contreras, Ortiz, Priester, JT, and so on. Pirates can afford to cut one loose in a trade. It gives the Pirates a guy who can cover Oviedo spot. Eases the bleeding
@Mendoza By signing Sanchez to a MLB deal BC has purposefully created a position surplus.
@PiratesFan Not sure what you’re drinking tonight haha…. the Bucs don’t have a pitcher called Williams! I thought you were talking about SS Aliki.
@terrier your right. I was thinking of Andre Jackson or Falter. It’s been a crazy week after thanksgiving. Pardon me
1981-Because he was the first draft choice and trading him admits it was a bad choice,
The Marlins are not going to do it anyway.If they trade him they will get proven players.
Davis projected as a very good hitter and his arm plays in right field.
No Williams in the top 30 but I see a subsequent post and Jackson or Falter would be a flat no too.
Yeah. While I don’t grasp their usage of Davis thus far, way too early to give him up as trade bait in a year that you’re really not suited to “go for it”.
@Mendoza Of course the Pirates need more than one starter, but this move would get them a starter. Is like some people think a team should solve all their needs in one move.
Keller-Skenes-Perez would be a really nice top of a rotation. Add another starter via free agency or another trade and they still have several arms that could bounce back. Roansy returning to form would be absolutely huge.
I hate to be the voice of the Marlins as a Pirate fan, but I think we are seriously underestimating what it would take to get Perez. Endy would be just a starting point IMO and it would take more than just a throw in lower level prospect. I think we are talking Endy and Bubba. Perez is considered clear top of rotation type of player. (think Skenes at a minimum). Endy does not have that high ceiling IMO.
I think Endy or Davis plus any other prospect not named Skenes would be somewhere near a fair deal.
Not named Skenes…….. or Temarr Johnson.
That’s kind of what I was thinking with mentioning Bubba. Earlier in the thread Endy was compared to JT Realmuto and the 2nd player was referenced as Jackson or Falter. I don’t think those are realistic baselines for assumptions for a trade. Endy being JT would be incredible… but I don’t see him viewed that way. JT was the premier catcher in the league for maybe 5 years or more and is still very good.
See response to 1981
He’s good for next man up. Good chance he plays in mlb again. Might win back up job. Might start when they trade Endy for Perez.
Roansy will never return to form, whatever that was. He’s clearly suffering from lack of confidence and if anything, he needs a change of scenery
Skenes just isn’t ready yet. Why rush him, or Jones, Solometo or Chandler?
How do you give up on a kid that may end up being an everyday player who hits and drives in runs in favor of a guy who may have a hand in 10 wins? Mind boggling
@SouthernBuc Not we. I think Perez is much more valuable. Not close. If I was Miami I wouldn’t trade him unless it was too good to say no. If just fair I am keeping him. I wouldn’t be that interested in Endy either. Any trade with Pirates involving a elite player I want 1 or 2 of their 6 best pitching prospects (Skenes wouldn’t be available) and or TJ Jebb. Marlins would you would think want major league hitter. Hope they like Suwinski and would you want to trade him?
They ran NG out of town. Did front office get better or worst? They traded for Stallings and traded Lopez for a position player. So you can imagine a scenario. Can’t see them loving Endy so much they wouldn’t more.
I don’t trust our minor league player development to not ruin Skenes’ potential before he reaches the majors
Maybe this newly hired assistant GM will make a difference but it still won’t happen overnight
How many of our minor league pitchers have already had TJ surgery?
Yeah but it’s almost an accepted part of a pitcher’s evolution these days, isn’t it? I mean, how many times do we hear, “He’ll come back stronger and faster” these days
It’s no mystery that pitchers from our generation didn’t routinely throw 90-95 mph and as such, TJ surgery was extremely rare. But that’s the sacrifice now. Pitching coaches push kids to throw harder and harder via myriad drills and strength training regimens and the ligaments and tendons break down from wear and tear
You can almost predict it
My other observation about this team’s player development whether in the minors or at the major league level, the number of pitchers who stunk while playing here, only to become far better after they’ve left
Robert Stephenson comes to mind. After they traded him to the Rays, pitching in 38 innings, he struck out 61 batters with an Era hovering around 3. And he pitched in a dome stadium
Charlie Morton is another pitcher who found himself a far better pitcher after leaving here
Same with Jon Lieber from years ago
As someone who’s coached kids for a number of years, I can tell you that timing has more to do with a player “finally getting it” than almost anything. Bad defense can unravel even the best pitchers, so can the pressure of a given role (being the “ace” vs. depth, not to mention putting a player in a position to succeed vs. needing them to succeed no matter what).
Every pitcher you mentioned learned through the school of hard knocks in Pittsburgh, pitchers in particular seem to need some adversity before they finally go from being a thrower whose stuff could dominate non-MLB talent to being a pitcher who understands how to harness their stuff to get outs in specific situations.
Greg Maddux got shelled his first full season in Chicago (and the few games the season prior). He was young and needed to learn.
It’s frustrating, but every organization has stories of young pitchers who couldn’t figure it out with them, then got traded and became something special. (The Yankees certainly could say that about Doug Drabek or Al Leiter, for instance.) And for every story like that, there are a dozen Kip Wells, who never figured it out anywhere.
I say Miami. But they traded away Lopez and traded for Stallings so who knows. I’d much rather have Perez.
Delay and Sanchez can handle the dish.
Sanchez did hit 500 last year but not in a lot of at bats.
He was placed on waivers about 15 times so a lot of teams wanted him,but the Pirates were the only team who wanted him twice.
The other player had extremely high eras but he did come from the Braves system.
If this is the start of the offseason so be it.
Wait until we get our Haines on him. Be lucky to get above .200
Dream- I see where I think the Mets hired Mabry as a new batting coach with experience and Muellar who had almost an 800 OPS through 11 ML years as assistant.
You are going to lose out on even mediocre pitchers and you could have had two for the price of one in place of “Let’s All Try To Walk” Haines.
And you think Ali Sanchez is a ML catcher?
They may want to stow him as minor league depth and waive him when rosters are full.
I hope.
I just simply don’t see both Cutch and Davis together in the same team
Cutch and Davis played together last yea, with Cutch as DH and Davis in RF
Keen observation.
Did you see Davis play right field?
Steve-How many years has Davis played right field?
Sorry,how many months has Davis played right field?
Sorry,how many weeks has Davis played right field?
And you expect him to be a MLright Fielder?
That is the Pirates way,to embarrass young players without proper training.
Did you see how they didn’t care how awful he was and kept putting him out there?
He isn’t a natural and that isn’t good. But is it possible to be worse? He’s been catching all his life or at least since college or highschool and looks just as awful at catcher. It’s scary they are saying he is going to spend this off-season and spring training as a catcher according to Ben. He hasn’t improved much or at all. What’s going to change the next few months? Outfield is new so maybe he can improve there one would think. If Cutch can ever throw again even with his noodle arm he can play rf at pnc. Davis can dh. I won’t even say 1b because he looks so bad everywhere else I can’t say for sure he can play 1b.
Worse case Cruz has to play 1b.
Worser case Cruz ankle is so bad he can’t even hit.
Worst case Davis bat isn’t good enough to dh.
The rebuild is over and it could have failed. All these players are young and can still improve. But…
You took a 2b only 7th overall. The bat has to be good. His Ks are concerning. Could easily be a failed pick.
You took a catcher who so far can’t catch at 1. The bat really has to be good. Right now it’s looking very average. I feel better about it improving than Nick G. Don’t feel good about catching. Not thrilled about rf chances but too early to call.
Took another 2b at 4 overall. He is walking a ton. Swing and miss is looking better. Has power. But bat doesn’t look as promising as when drafted. Can’t complain about that pick because I would have taken him as well. Then again I watch 20 minutes of YouTube clips. They hopefully spent weeks watching film and scouted him in person and collected as much data as they could.
Skenes they had to take and no reason for concern yet. I wouldn’t have let him pitch in 2023 though. Even the 4 innings or whatever.
You contradict yourself here
How is the rebuild over when by your own admission, their scouting department continually misfired?
It’s not over by any imagination
Your comments on Davis are mystifying. They select the kid number one overall knowing he’s a problem defensively? That’s unimaginable
Agree about the rest of your thoughts on draft picks here although Termarr is only 19. Has some power but sure isn’t hitting consistently
And as for Skenes, yes, why? Was this just to “flash the gold” for Pirates fans?
They did a disservice to Davis last year. He wasn’t ready to play OF. He has potential to hit and none of the other players drafted around him are exactly setting the world on fire either, but should have been trying him at first and right all along in the minors. Personally I just don’t see how he fits unless they let him play right and learn on the fly
Many good thoughts here but look at the flip side of the coin, too. How many teams could win consistently with two starters, a spot starter and two reliever starts every five days? Has to be a rarity at best and it’s somewhat amazing that middle relievers weren’t worn out
I’ll grant you this: the Pirates not finding time for Davis to do some catching during his time here is very suspect. Getting a look at him there and perhaps Endy at 1st a few games would have been nice but that it didn’t happen makes you wonder
You keep saying the rebuild is over but as you write, you contradict yourself.
Misplaced comment here. Sorry. Forgot how this works
I agree His development was not well managed You think he’s getting traded?
Rebuild might take until 2057 or never end if it depends on the scouting department to hit on every trade or 80 90 percent of them.
Most scouts I talked to thought Davis was weak, bad, or downright awful defensively. After he was drafted I heard things like can’t believe they took him number 1 or he still looks like your typical college catcher. Pirates either just wanted the bat or unfortunately I believe were arrogant and foolish enough to think they could drastically improve him.
Just looking now this is from baseball America. “Scouts are split on whether or not Davis will catch at the next level. He has the arm strength and athleticism—he’s a good runner for a catcher—but needs to work on his blocking and receiving.”
Mlb.com was a lot more positive but I think the 1st dozen words was the correct evaluation and it’s looking iffy if the rest of their positivity will happen. “His receiving lacks consistency and he sometimes struggles to handle quality stuff, but he has looked better in 2021 and should be able to remain behind the plate. He’s quicker than most backstops and conceivably could try third base or an outfield corner if a team wants to maximize his offensive value.”
Seems Davis ceiling was a average at best, hopefully passable enough to have his bat at catcher. With a coin flip of this happening. Heard he loved baseball, loved catching and was I hard worker so maybe he could stick at catcher. I hate to think this but maybe it takes more than passion and hard work.
I done no such thing. Ben brought in a lot of new people. They traded all the old and expiring Marte Taillon Bell Musgrove Stallings Rodriguez Frazier. Extended Reynolds Hayes. Drafted top 5 3 years in a row. There is nothing drastic left to do. Unless they luck out in the lottery or lose 100 games in 2024 they aren’t getting any more top 5 picks. Sure they will hire people here and there and trade away more expiring players but that is just maintaining. You just have the belief that the team has to win for the rebuild to be complete. No. They can stink and will have to get another gm and rebuild again. New staff, numerous trades, top 5 picks all over again. We just have different definitions of a rebuild. Nothing to get worked up about.
@tiredolddude_ I replied to you but it went to the bottom so will try it again and add more. I played SS in highschool and pitched in college. I have a basic understanding of infield defense and know a lil about pitching. I know absolutely nothing about catching. He just looks worse than he should at this point to my untrained eyes. If he has improved since being drafted it looks to be at a slow slow rate. What’s alarming is what people who allegedly know about catching have said. It’s nothing new. He wasn’t considered to ever be capable of being a good catcher when drafted. Some didn’t think he could be good enough to catch at all. It was either he will be a bat first catcher or will have to play RF 1b.
Thanks for the notes about Davis. With you having reported all of that, I’m at a loss as to how and why he was the number 1 pick
Not on the same page with you about the meaning of “rebuild”. I don’t think it necessarily means they have to win but rather, that they have MLB-level talent in every position and have depth in the minor leagues. You’re right, you can have numerous top picks every year but it doesn’t mean they’ll be top flight major leaguers or that the team will win
From what I can tell, yeah, they’ve rebuilt the farm system. They’re not the Braves or Dodgers, but few teams are. They’re miles beyond where they were at the end of NH’s tenure. But I think you go off track when you say the rebuild is complete and discount pitching, obviously. Keller may be their top pitcher going forward but I’ve watched all of his starts and he lacks consistency where command is concerned
But beyond him, all you have are names. They need to establish a starting pitching staff and I’ll buy into your thinking. Maybe that’ll come late summer. Maybe not
I’ll discount the holes in RF and 1B and give the Pirates the benefit of the doubt. I think they’re close to the completion of rebuild. But as you’ve documented, with so many question marks I don’t see them as being close to seriously competing
I can see the 2 SS wanting more $. The 2 pitchers got more. Davis may have been the most reasonable choice. Corner outfielders and 1b have been taken top 5 before. Davis was considered about the 5th best player. Best college bat. Main reason he was cheaper and allowed them to get 2 first round pitchers later in draft.
Rebuild wasn’t ideal. Not like they had Scherzer Turner Soto to trade for prospects. 2020 was one of the weakest drafts in history. 2021 was weak. The quantity approach was smart. So they got off to a slow start. Drafted mostly highschool arms. Rebuild shouldn’t have had much success yet. Again it’s over because there are no more top 5 draft picks and no one left to trade. They are stuck with what they done. Now it’s just standard operating procedure like any of the 20 some other teams who aren’t rebuilding.
If this is the same tired old dude as the rest of us tired old dudes knew,then welcome back from your sojourn of following the Pittsburgh Steelers.
It’s good to have you back.
Skenes I think at least saw what the minor league experience was about and had to benefit.
I think that he jumped to AA so he can stay there for five weeks then go to AAA for five more.
Needless to say,the Pirates will need him next year.
Hiya Mendoza. Kind of a dark time in Pittsburgh sports. At least Pitt’s women’s volleyball team is a top seed in the NCAA championships. Yeah, women’s volleyball. About all we have to cheer these days. Even Big Ben was in attendance yesterday
Hope for the best with the Bucs but like some have said, I kinda see ‘24 as a “treading water” season. Funny thing is, that’s probably good enough to compete for a wild card
The 1-1 label on Davis is probably a little unfair in terms of expectations, the real value was being able to distribute signing money further down the draft; I don’t see them with Solometo, White and Chandler if they didn’t choose him. And other than Mayer (who’s still young with a high ceiling), none of the other players taken immediately after Davis is burning up the MLB – Jack Leiter is certainly not doing well, Jobe has been hurt, Cowser and Lawler looked more overmatched than Hank did.
In Davis, I see a hitter who needs to mature in terms of pitch selection and swing types (there were very few ABs where I felt like Davis prioritized contact over power). This coming season should show whether he learned anything from it. Those ABs last year were more important than the position, they were clearly trying to find a spot for him in the lineup. I’m not ready to give up on him or even say that his development looks ominous because most people are measuring him as a 1-1 and I never viewed him as that kind of talent (Mayer had my vote in terms of what a 1-1 ought to look like).
With all of these young guys, they’re seeing things in the batter’s box on a consistent basis that up until now they’ve maybe seen a handful of times. It takes time to learn and adjust, and it’s not always a straight line up.
Pundit-Assuming that you are true to your name I would be curious as to your thoughts on Andy Haines and whether he will last much longer as the hitting coach.
And why did they fire Nunnaly?
The Pirates looking to hurry up and improve the backup catcher spot, without Delay.
Shame on you Monkey.
I am aware that you’re a Delay supporter, Mendoza, and believe he’s a good backup catcher, but his arm strength in throwing out potential base stealers is a paltry 11%.
49 runners stole bases in 60 attempts last year when he was behind the plate
His only real strength is not allowing a passed ball
And he lacks any power whatsoever
Paul- How dare you bring facts into this thread!
I think that what you are saying is that he is barely more than a mediocre receiver and the first half of the 2023 season is his apex of his ML hitting career.
That may very well be true.
Even if so,however,I do not see Sanchez as any better,and the least of the Pirates’s worries is their second string catcher.
I like it. Potential is there.
Career BA in the minors of .267 & above average wOBA of 0.358.
The major league deal doesn’t make sense…
You could already carry
Rodriguez
Davis
Delay
Gonna guess Delay will be the odd man out via trade.
They really don’t have depth at Indy for catcher, Delay will probably start the season there and be promoted in the event of an injury
I don’t see them trading Davis either and until he learns how to play the right field wall, other than having a strong throwing arm, he’ll be a defensive liability playing RF
If this isn’t the precursor to a trade than Davis will be back at Indy to prove he can catch, IMO.
@theman umm, Elias Diaz all over again. Waiting for his defense to come and passed on several offers for Diaz. History repeats itself and you will be saying, well that didn’t work out. Just make Davis available for a pitcher who can be equal or slightly better than Oviedo (who’s on the shelf this year). If you want the Pirates to be relevant in the near future, decisions like this will need to be made. Otherwise, we will always be a revolving door for has beens. Perez mentioned above, checks the boxes of what the Pirates need over want.
The Pirates gave up on Glasgow and Baz and look at all of the crap that NH received for doing it.
No thanks.
we’ve been a revolving door for has beens or never will be’s for years
Or do you not remember the signings of Rich Hill, Carlos Santana and Josh Van Meter
There’s no evidence things will change this year, at least not yet
Paul- If they do not make some big changes they will be winning
in the 60’s this year.
You need to keep your pretty smile in spite of them.
You can’t help but wonder if there is something really big being setup for the winter meetings? I just can’t buy into Davis being sent back to Indy to work on catching more then I can see him being a huge piece of trade capital. Either way I am anxious to see how all of this plays out.
When was the last time that Cherington did something really big?
Was it when he drafted a catcher who can’t catch at 1 1? Traded away a reliever who would instantly become one of the better closers in baseball for 2 quad a utility players? Giving Josh Bell away for nothing? Trading Taillon without showcasing that he was fully recovered from TJ? No. I got the answer. Cherington extended manager who never won more than 61 games after 2 good weeks of baseball in April.
Dream- You talk in tongues that I sometimes do not understand.
That’s part of his mystique, Mendoza. Sit back, have some Gentleman Jack and try to understand his meaning. Maybe put on a Pink Floyd record while you’re at it.
Tired-Sometimes I think that I could understand Swahili better.
I prefer margaritas and Otis Redding or Rick James.
Does Delay have option? Do they care about Delay? Might be as simple as they think Sanchez is better and or Delay can be AAA depth.
Whoever makes Davis a mlb quality catcher should immediately be taken away by a richer team. Make them a bench coach or even manager if that’s what it takes.
Delay has options and Davis’ ceiling is primarily dependent on his bat. As long as Davis hits nobody will care if he’s catching or not. Even if Davis does transform into I viable MLB catcher his defense behind the plate would still be a downgrade from Endy anyway. I’d argue it’s time to cut bait on having Davis be a catcher so he can focus and improve as a right fielder.
Jimmy- That makes too much sense.
Not sure why there’s so much speculation about trading away a catcher just because the front office gave Sanchez a major league deal. To me this move is similar to signing Andujar for over a million to stash him as depth. It’s the beginning of December, there’s no guarantee Sanchez is still with the club in April. Giving Sanchez a major league deal probably makes it slightly more likely that he clears waivers if he gets DFA’d at some point. As things stand now Endy starts, Sanchez is backup, Davis is RF/DH/emergency catcher and Delay is depth in AAA. Finally it’d be terrible foolish to trade five years of control over Davis before he has truly established himself in the majors just because Cutch is gonna soak up most DH at bats in one of those years.
Yes, agree 100%. They’re not about to send Davis down and I’m betting these types of signings—for depth—-are what the Pirates are going to be undertaking this winter, aside from adding bottom tier pitching
“Something big coming” and “Pirates” in the same sentence is almost hysterical
Perfect take on this signing. It’s not out of the realm to get 4 catchers deep in any given season – I don’t think any of us have a lot of hope that Grant Koch is somehow another Stallings or Delay who will come out of nowhere and be semi-regular in the MLB. (He played in Indy because he was 26 and they had no upper-tier depth, not because he was good). Indy’s other catcher on the current roster was an emergency thing, Luis Hernandez will only see an MLB field if another John Bormann situation occurs.
Beyond that, they’ve got Bins, Gutierrez, Shockley and Eli Wilson. None of us would truly want to see any of those guys catching (or especially batting) on the MLB team either. You’re 100% right, they only get Sanchez (a viable depth option) with an MLB contract – he was among the better depth options as an FA; the other guys still think they’re starters and would have basically commanded a spot on the MLB roster either by their salary or their standing in their career. In that respect, the Pirates nabbed the pick of the litter of cheap, reliable depth. Most can’t hit, many can’t throw – Sanchez seems to be at least competent at both.
Jimmy-Cutch May or may not do that.He has had all off season to heal but he has been injury prone starting with his time on the Phillies.
You are spot on on Sanchez and I have never seen this much discussion about a fourth string catcher who have been waived five times,
You are one of the first posters who I noticed 7 1/2 years ago when I started posting here and it is good to see that you still make sense.
Yeah, it’s amazing to me that the Pirates finally have a core but fans are looking to trade chunks of it away. They have 1 starting pitcher at present and he’s not the stopper you can count on just yet. So just how do you fill the other 4 spots? With harebrained trades?
Methinks that I will have revise my projected win total downward and maybe drastically from 83 after Shelton miraculously won a majority of the last 60 games with two starting pitchers.
I would expect him to physically berate Cherington if he does not get him at least two placeholders for next year.
They may have no alternative than to punt on 2024.
They did well last year with 3 new starters Oviedo VV Hill. Fans think they were only a 70 something win team but they were a 500 team. Losing Burrows Brubaker VV for the year! If you ran a simulation how often does that happen? That May June whatever stretch of awful baseball? That doesn’t happen every time time. If they didn’t trade Santana Choi Hill they probably win a few more games. Players get hurt at random but how many times does Cruz get lost for season in April in the 1000 simulations? Reynolds uncle dying? Injuries and such will happen but 2023 seemed more unlucky than the average year. Maybe you lose Garcia and Brubaker. Choi still has injury prone year and Cruz misses a month or two. VV misses a month. That seems like the average year to me.
Dream- Pirate fans have to deal in the here and now.
Like crying,there is no theoretical in baseball.
Every team has injuries.
In football it is next man up.
I do not recall the Pirates not having luck in this regard,and I think that they paid for it in 2023 and probably for the vestiges in 2024.
They were not a 500 team in 2023 Dream.
You can dream all you want but their record was their record.
Talks about trading Henry Davis are kinda scary. Yes he wasn’t amazing last year, yes he most likely will not be a catcher, but I think his bat has potential to be big time, shown some power and discipline, and crushed in the minors. Not that they’d get Eury Perez for him anyways but I don’t want to see them trade someone with his potential for a young pitcher who can very likely just blow out his arm and never be the same. While I get they have to be creative in finding a solution, other teams aren’t trading away their top 2-3 prospects to get decent pitching.
Well stated.
Neil Walker was drafted as a catcher and instead became a pretty good 2nd baseman, never going behind the plate during his entire major league career
Walker also spent very little time catching in the minors. He was playing 3rd mostly, then moved to second.
They passed on 4 bats worthy of #1 to take a pitcher. If Miami was stupid enough to trade Perez for Davis I would say they would do it. I would.
As a catcher Davis would be fine with a 700 ops. As a acceptable RF he needs to be high 700s minimum. That’s Connor Joe territory. So if he can’t catch how high does his ops have to be as a RF? What if he has to dh? He needs to be pushing a 900 ops for me to take him over Perez. I will take the under 900 and go with Perez. I think Davis will put up better numbers. Just like Perez and they need pitching more. I think Davis is closer to Conner Joe than mvp Cutch. Joe can play RF and probably even catch better than Davis.
If Davis is not a catcher then play him in AAA in right field for two months and get him some hitting confidence.See how his numbers in AAA compare to 2023 Andujar.Make these guys earn their promotions.Don’t give up on him just because he had growing pains and was jerked around in positions.
You and BC like Connor Joe.He is a platoon player at best.
They passed on 4 bats worthy of #1 to take a pitcher. If Miami was stupid enough to trade Perez for Davis I would say they would do it. I would.
As a catcher Davis would be fine with a 700 ops. As a acceptable RF he needs to be high 700s minimum. That’s Connor Joe territory. So if he can’t catch how high does his ops have to be as a RF? What if he has to dh? He needs to be pushing a 900 ops for me to take him over Perez. I will take the under 900 and go with Perez. I think Davis will put up better numbers. Just like Perez and they need pitching more. I think Davis is closer to Conner Joe than mvp Cutch. Joe can play RF and probably even catch better than Davis.
I think too many people are looking too closely to Davis’s season. He gets called up, put somewhere he’s played very little, and told you’re here for your bat. Just because Davis is reporting as a catcher, doesn’t mean he’s not learning right or first as well. Delay has options, and probably doesn’t make most teams. He’ll be the one stashed at 3a or traded. Especially since “glove first catcher” is how he’s described as well.
Clearly signed him to be ERod’s personal Catcher. Stay tuned for Pirates announcing ERod has agreed to a 3/75 contract offer.
Endy is under control for 5 more years, signing him to a 3 year deal would be one of the dumbest decisions Ben could possibly make
ERod is the Tigers pitcher, free agent.
He’s got some work to do. After getting practice and reps in minors and lots of reps in mlb, at the end of the season he still looked more like an emergency injury replacement that has never played the outfield before vs even a passable mlb outfielder.
Davis’ lots of reps in mlb were all in game situations.These are young players that you have to bring along.They need to be sound in their fundamentals,and practice so much that they cannot make mistakes,and do it in a relatively stress free environment.
That is not the ML’s.
Dream gave a solid rationale as to why they drafted Davis to begin with and after reading it you couldn’t help but think that once again, economics played a role in their thinking. Sheesh. To me, a number one pick should equate to someone who is helping the big club in a short amount of time. Given his explanation, it’s incredible they drafted him
And yeah, if everything he’s relating is true, might as well see if he’s a trade piece.
I get Dream’s thinking where rebuild is concerned. It’s semantics but it makes sense. As rebuilt, this group isn’t going to compete for anything more than wild cards unless the starters who are coming back or coming up set the world on fire. And in the era of 5-inning starts, what does it mean anyway?
I used to say they’re a hard team to watch game in and game out but will say they had some fire last season at the very least
But again, I’m ok with a team that’s around .500 every year. More and more, it seems the best you can hope for. That golden era of Cutch, Walker, Marte, Cole and Martin, AJ and Liriano seems to be a nice memory
Shame that younger fans see Martin’s homer off of Cueto was the high water mark for the franchise and aren’t aware of moments like Stargell’s blast to win the ‘79 series. Don’t think we’ll ever see that again
Dream talks with confidence on the Davis subject of drafting,so I tend to agree with him because I know nothing on the subject,
Perhaps it was a weak draft,and he was the best option when calculating in the additional money that was used for the two young pitchers.
But I remember the Pirates needing a catcher so bad that that was part of the hype.
And it is hard to believe that this country’s universities could not have produced several excellent candidates for the first selection in the draft.
Only the Royals’ fans have smelled the ultimate success as small market teams since 1991.
But the Guardians( née Indians) and Rays fans have also seen pennant winners.
On average the Pirates have a 1 in 200 chance of winning the WS.
But that does not mean that they cannot win the NL pennant.
The Man says next year never comes,and I tend to agree with him.
But hope springs eternal.
Well,sure. People have said it’s a “perpetual rebuild” and they are always “two years away from being two years away”
I like the upside of a Pirates pitching staff with Keller, Skenes, Chandler, Jones and Solometo. Or Burrows. Or Brubaker
It’s nice to dream
And I agree with the folks who holler about them having to address starting pitching right now. But the truth is that they have a lot of question marks to address, too
One of my favorite times of year for baseball—the winter meetings. Pity I don’t see the Pirates doing much
Winter meetings when we were much younger used to be the time for blockbuster trades.
Not so much anymore.
I see the Cards have made substantial additions to starting pitching and the Reds adding too.The Cubs’ money will help them and the Brewers have some residual left with good young players coming up.
I am afraid that we will have to start dealing with trolls again on this site after a year of substantial freedom
The Cubs are much closer to “mission accomplished” in terms of rebuild than the Pirates. And I hate the Cubs. That’s even with the loss of Bellinger. You can just see it. And they have money they’re not afraid to throw around
The Cubs are a large market team but one who does not bneedlessly spend.
Even if the Pirates were competitive to do well in a division that they have not won since 1992 they need to be lucky.Ask them if they were lucky between 2013-2015They won the second highest total of games in MLB over that period and hosted every wild card game but came up against the two best pitchers in baseball the second and third year.Oh,and the team with the best three year record was first in their division each year.
You know all of this is but the point is they have to time whatever good period that they have with the bad periods of the other well run teams.
But first they have to have a good period,and they have had only one of those since 1992.
I just thought of something.
Does anyone think that this guy is any better than Jacob Stallings?
I know that he is younger and costs less money but Stallings would be a great help to the young catchers too.
He’s not better than the Stallings we remember, but he’s better than 2023 Stallings, and it’s not even close. Stallings at this point in his career would be another Hedges, with only the benefit of some good fan memories (walk-off GS against the Mets) and less swarthiness when he talks.
Thanks Pundit.I will go with your take.Stallings was an overachiever anyway but seems to have fallen quickly from grace.
At least we got Nicolas out of the trade.
After watching BCs interview betting Davis starts season in AAA as catcher to work on craft
curious at a major league deal. Minors yeah sure but Majors seems a bit much for his situation. hasn’t had much time in the MLB but his minors bad seems not bad.
Maybe Henry, Endy and/or Jason are on the move. I can see Henry or Endy moving if they’re getting a decent quality long term starter out of it. I don’t like it much but can understand it.