The Padres have long been expected to pare down payroll significantly this offseason, with early signals indicating a target payroll of no more than $200MM for the 2024 season as they look to get back into compliance with the league’s debt service rules. The Athletic’s Dennis Lin reports that the club may plan to cut payroll even more drastically, suggesting that the club’s final payroll next season could come in “more than a little lower” than that aforementioned $200MM figure as club officials reportedly “prefer” to stay under the luxury tax threshold in 2024. Importantly, Lin notes that the club would be willing to go “slightly” over the luxury tax if the right opportunity were to present itself later this winter, though it’s unclear what sort of opportunity would be necessary to convince San Diego to push their payroll over the threshold.
While RosterResource projects the Padres for a payroll of just over $152MM as things stand, it projects a significantly larger $205MM payroll for luxury tax purposes. That would leave the club with just under $32MM of budget space remaining for luxury tax purposes if they intend to remain below the first luxury tax threshold, which will sit at $237MM in 2024. That roughly $30MM of wiggle room for luxury tax purposes tracks with Lin’s suggestion that a payroll of around $180MM could allow the Padres to duck below the threshold next year.
Lin goes on to report that the club’s pursuit of outfielder Jung Hoo Lee, who signed with the Giants earlier this week on a six-year, $113MM deal, was impacted by the club’s budget constraints. While Lin notes that San Diego’s offer to Lee was reportedly considered “competitive” but nonetheless was not especially close to the figure offered by San Francisco. Lee’s contract with the Giants sports an average annual value of roughly $18.8MM, meaning landing the outfielder would have required more the remaining space the Padres have available to them below the luxury tax threshold.
As Lin notes, the Padres themselves demonstrated as recently as last offseason that there are ways to creatively structure a deal to deflate its AAV. Right-handers Michael Wacha and Nick Martinez, for example, commanded salaries of $7.5MM and $10MM respectively in 2023 despite carrying AAVs of just $6.5MM and $8.7MM for luxury tax purposes thanks to the complex structures of their contracts. It’s possible that similar deals could allow the Padres additional room to maneuver this offseason as they look to rebuild their starting outfield after shipping Juan Soto and Trent Grisham to New York as well as a pitching staff that lost Wacha, Martinez, Seth Lugo, Blake Snell, and Josh Hader to free agency last month.
It’s possible some of the club’s holes can be filled internally, with Lin noting that the Padres see the likes of Jackson Merrill, Jakob Marsee and Robby Snelling, among others, as prospects who could impact the big league club in 2024. Even in San Diego manages to successfully embrace a youth movement, however, it’s hard to imagine the club being able to fill two outfield spots, one rotation spot, and restock the bullpen without making several external additions.
With so many holes on the roster and relatively little wiggle room in the club’s budget for 2024, Lin notes that infielders Jake Cronenworth and Ha-Seong Kim are both potential trade candidates for the Padres. Kim would surely be an attractive trade candidate if available on the heels of a strong season that saw him slash .260/.351/.398 while playing superb defense all around the infield, and a deal would allow the Padres to shed his $8MM salary in 2024 while potentially bringing back major league ready talent in return.
Cronenworth, on the other hand, would be far more difficult to deal, as MLBTR’s Anthony Franco explored earlier this week. The 29-year-old is coming off the worst season of his career in 2023 and is owed a whopping $80MM over the next seven seasons, making him a less-than-palatable trade target for the majority of clubs. While Cronenworth’s salary is just over $7MM for the 2024 campaign, his contract’s AAV of around $11.5MM counts as a more significant hit against the luxury tax. While Cronenworth is far from the only player locked up long-term the Padres could consider trying to move, others would like present even more significant obstacles.
Right-handers Yu Darvish and Joe Musgrove figure to anchor the club’s rotation next season, and dealing either veteran arm would be counterproductive for a club hoping to bolster its rotation depth. It’s a similar story for Robert Suarez in the bullpen. Meanwhile, the likes of Xander Bogaerts, Manny Machado, and Fernando Tatis Jr. are due hundreds of millions through at least the 2033 season, making them all far more complicated to move for fair value than Soto, who will be a free agent next season, was. Making a trade for any of the aforementioned names even more complicated is that each player is coming off a season that either saw them produce below their recent career levels, struggle with injury, or both. With plenty of holes to fill and few realistic options for shedding salary available, the Padres face a major uphill battle as they look to improve upon their 82-80 season in 2023 that saw them just miss out on playoff contention.
Padres currently waiting to see if their next payroll loan will get approved.
Dodgers payday loaned themselves
Maybe They will just sign another shortstop
It wasn’t a payroll loan
Penny pinching, cheapskates, fraudres
At least they tried. Most smaller markets don’t even bother. The loan is only because of tv rights. So I’m guessing they budgeted appropriately otherwise.
‘They tried” isn’t good enough.
The current ownership group “quit”.
The guy died. You guys have as much compassion a rabid dog.
“They tried”…Some people need something to be unhappy and complain about 24/7.
Towin, seems more like YOU quit.
Them ‘trying’ has left the organization in a big financial hole. The Boegarts, Cronenworth and Machado contracts were all irresponsible and now, the Padres are going to be penny-pinching for a while. Just wait until that $39 million per year on Machado starts in 2027 and runs through 2033 when he is very very very likely to be worth nothing even remotely close to those numbers. All of this is to say that I think there are going to be some vvvveeeerrrrryyyy lean baseball years in San Diego for a long time. Get used to fourth or even fifth place in the years to come.
it’s fine, padres fans are used to it by now
beyou, what financial hole? The Padres had a record high revenue in 2023 and are now net revenue sharing payors with revenue around $450 million. Season tickets and nearly all single game tickets are already sold out for 2024. According to several interview during the Winter Meetings, they increased TV revenue after DSG went into bankruptcy. They just started a $1.5 billion development next to the park that the team will own.
The Padres have an enviable core locked up long term and a top 10 farm system. In less than a month they will add Leo Devries, the #1 international free agent, to that farm system
I think people are just jealous that the Padres owner spent while the owners of the team they root for took the profits and ran instead of putting a winning team on the field.
Not a Padres fan, but yes – they have a history now of reaching high to compete. Ownership was ready to go all in for the fan base and that is all that one can ask for.
Preller seems to be a complicated guy to evaluate, as I will scratch my head at some of the moves and significant overpays and riverboat gambler styling, while at the same time I admire the cojones. For a guy that made his reputation early on for his player development and talent acquisition eye for young players, he is an interesting mix.
Long and short of it – I don’t think that I want him as the GM for my team given his relative blind spots, but I can appreciate some of what he brings to a team.
We don’t know if it was Preller or ownership but the Padres should be looked at by most other teams as without an owner that doesn’t care about the bottom line like a typical business model, they’re going to be in rough shape for a while. Those creative contracts that allowed them to save in 23 must be why their 24 tax number is so high. The Dodgers are not a typical team but they could still have issues down the road. It’s not likely but imagine if circumstances change and in ten years instead of the tax base numbers increasing or are even eliminated in the next CBA, what happens if due to the economy, they substantially decrease? The Ohtani payments will be dead money.
Current baseball free agent environment reminds me of the 90’s NBA contracts where the likes of Juwan Howard and Larry Johnson were given max contracts. That is, these deferrals will eventually lead to a significant renegotiation of the CBA because these numbers aren’t sustainable.
Case in point – Manny Machado is a very good defensive player (used to be amazing, but he thought he was the best of all time) and still plays above average and makes the occasional amazing play, but he is soft and a whiner and has a me first attitude. He’ll never win anything. Preller’s biggest mistake was thinking anyone else would match what manny was owed when he ripped him. That single move will haunt that franchise for at least half a decade.
Preller is a moron, plain and simple
JR
“these deferrals will eventually lead to a significant renegotiation of the CBA because these numbers aren’t sustainable.”
1) Why aren’t they sustainable?
2) If they aren’t sustainable, won’t teams quit doing them without the need to change the CBA?
3) The players almost certainly fought hard to include this in the CBA since AAV calculations are a) a tool to drive down player salaries b) counted at full value and not discounted present value. . What do you see ownership giving up in order to make this change?
I await your, no doubt, informed and intelligent response.
dj
“Preller is a moron, plain and simple”
It’s a near certainly that he’s more intelligent and knowledgeable than you are
Filihok, I don’t agree. The AAV is to prevent back loading deals or to even move money from one to the next to prevent teams from stacking a roster for the current season. Also, a typical deal that pays a player only for expected consistent years is likely to increase each season. The recent trend has been to pay for years that you expect a decline which lowers the AAV. Very dangerous as the money grows and grows.
1) Why aren’t they sustainable?
=========================
If anything, these feel like they favor the owners, maybe by a lot. The 4.43% is likely better than any team could get in a straight loan, and even if they had to put the deferred amount in escrow, I would bet that an investment bank would still give them more than 4.43%, especially what AAA corporate bonds will get you.
dbith
“Filihok, I don’t agree. The AAV is to prevent back loading deals or to even move money from one to the next to prevent teams from stacking a roster for the current season. ”
You’re assuming I mean they should count the actual amount paid each year.
I didn’t mean that
I meant the AAV should be based off of present value, as is done with deferred money
The money declines in value. At the end of the 10 years player salaries will have gone up by 65% and MLB revenue will be much higher than it is today.
That $25 million AAV for Bogaerts will be what average MLB FA are getting paid. The $30 million for Machado will be what guys like Gurriel, a 2.5 WAR player, will be getting paid. That is why teams spread out these deals. At the end of long term deals the hit is smaller in comparison to the increase in team revenue.
This ownership group run by Arctos Sports Partners is bent on running the Padres into the ground.
Didn’t their principal owner just die? I’m sure they need to adjust now
Small adjustments are understandable, this is a seismic shift of epic proportions…
A #FIRESALE
The seismic shift was boosting payroll to what its been the last couple years. This isn’t as big of a shift. You just don’t like the direction it’s shifting…..
14 players gone.
One superstar gone
4 prospects
No free agent signings
Seismic shift.
Wow whiny. Its 2 months to spring training. In 2021 the Padres didn’t add anyone of note until after Christmas and look who they got. Snell, Darvish, Musgrove, and more.
ALL of that was after Lin and others in the sports media said they could spend no more money.
Pull your big girl panties up and let the offseason progress before you commit Hari Kari.
Show me another mid market team with 3 huge contracts like Machado, Tatis and Bogaerts. They gave it hell trying to bring a championship to San Diego. Unfortunately they didn’t pull it off. Ownership definitely lost money the last couple of years. You can’t blame them for wanting to start acting like a mid market team when they go that far over the tax and still can’t get to a world series. Imo they went for it a couple of years too early. Preller still had that stacked farm that was starting to pay off nicely when they started going for it. He flipped too many prospects and spent like a drunken sailor and after it all they won the same amount of championships as the Brewers and Rays that spent far less.
14 players gone:
I’m not really missing Wacha Lugo Hader Snell at the price they command.
Not really gonna miss Hill Grisham Garcia Carpenter given production last season
A lot of guys they either wisely let go and didn’t overpay for and cut bait due to production
1 superstar
Soto was a 1 year rental. SD was never gonna sign a long term deal. After seeing what ohtani got Soto is dreaming of his pay day. Dude is gonna wind up a DH possibly 1B his defense isn’t passable and won’t get better as his contract ages.
No free agent signings:
Good. Signing free agents hasn’t really amounted to much. Should switch to player development and let the kids play. I wanna see what Batten can do
Merril can do
Paulney can do
Bush Jr can do
Marlee can do
Padres should invest in player development and talent evaluation.
And they will probably win same amount of games after all those players are gone . They went for it and it didn’t work thank you Mr siedler for trying.
Well, if we didn’t sign Boegarts and didn’t re-up Manny, didn’t give 80 million to Cron, or 5 more years to Darvish we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in now. Wait for the farm to fill out the roster? Our window won’t be open forever. Last year we were the 2nd oldest team in the majors, and Manny, X, Darvish, and Cron are all in their mid to late 30s in a few years. I still believe we can win, but Preller has made this bed and now we have to lay in it.
Not going to miss Nola, Barlow (who was replaced by De Los Santos). neither Tim nor Rich Hill. Garcia. Carpenter, Grisham, or Pomeranz. Might miss Sanchez, but Higashioka is great behind the plate and with the pitchers and won’t kill the team with the bat. Like to see Cooper brought back to DH/1B.
For the dollars they have commanded, I am glad they didn’t resign Martinez, Wacha, and Lugo. I really like Nick Martinez personally, but the money he got was not worth it. Preller and his staff are really good at finding guys like those three and signing them to relatively inexpensive contracts. I fully expect they will find replacements for much less than what they will be paid in 2024. I think they already have found at least one among the 3 they got from the Yankees.
Padres tried to extend Soto, but he is obviously looking for something over $600 million, rather than what they offered him.
Wacha, Martinez, and Lugo were all FA and those deals worked out well for the Padres. They were low priced players that turned into really good deals once they got a Padres uniform on. Now they are expensive.
Batten is a utility player at best. Maybe 2.0 WAR over 100-120 games played.
The guy I want to see get a serious shot at utility is Eguy Rosario if he can stay healthy. He looked good in AA and AAA the last 3 seasons before getting injured last year. He is still only 24 years old.
Merrill is a year away and is blocked. If Kim is extended I can see him being traded as part of a deal for a true Ace. .
Pauley is a good hitter. He has hit everywhere he has gone and he doesn’t strike out much. Love to see him get a shot at DH sometime this season Platoon him with Cooper, who would be a low priced FA.
None of the rest are going to get any shot this season.
The prospects that will probably get a look if they have a good spring are Iriarte, Kolek, Reynolds, and Jacob.
I saw Reynolds with the Chihuahuas. He was throwing 100+, but he couldn’t find the plate. I think he walked 27 in 16 IP. He has only been pitching full time since 2021 and did do well in AAA for the Marlins last season.
The Padres are among the best in talent evaluation. That is why the farm is top 10 again 18 months after trading away two top 10 overall prospects and two other top 100 prospects for Soto and Bell. Something to keep in mind when it comes to prospects is that less than 20% of top 100 prospects ever become even a MLB average or 2.0 WAR player in their careers.
Preller has been quite good at making trades. I am hoping that at least one of the two he has been rumored to be involved in for Luzardo or Burnes come to fruition. Preferably Luzardo because he has 3 years of control.
I am thinking that the only way to pick up a good LF at this point is through trade.
Snell is gone.
JP
“The seismic shift was boosting payroll to what its been the last couple years. This isn’t as big of a shift. You just don’t like the direction it’s shifting…..”
Yep. Some people just like to focus on the negative, it’s intellectually easier and reveals more about the person making the comments than it does the situation they are commenting on.
“Fire sale”..It’s not like writer Acee didn’t tell you months ago this was coming down the pike.
and let the offseason progress before you commit Hari Kari.
==============================
Same boat as the Red Sox and the RS fans.
It’s still early, and we still don’t know what the budget is.
Quit it with the “we” crap. You’re a fan, not a bat boy
Jesus dude, stfu.
Siedler dying had a pretty huge impact on the franchise.
But go ahead, sit around and whine all day.
Wouldn’t it be cultural appropriation for an anglo dude to commit Hari Kari? 😉
Back in the 1980s, San Diego sportscaster Ted Leitner used to say “my Padres” when they won and “your Padres” when they lost.
“Preller has been quite good at making trades.”
The first Soto trade, Kemp trade, Myers trade, Upton trade, Clevinger trade, first Frazier trade, Nola trade, Brett Nicholas-Emmanuel Clase trade, Drew Pomeranz-Anderson Espinoza trade, Manuel Margot-Emilio Pagan trade and Rich Hill trade all beg to differ.
The first Frazier trade was the one I still haven’t recovered from.
Quit it with the “we” crap.
=====================
What?
3 superstars gone. Soto, Snell, and Hader.
5 MLB players added plus a top 100 prospect.
If they do stay under the CBT, they still have $40 million to spend and they have a top 10 farm system to trade from for guys like Luzardo, Cease, or Burns.
Ten years ago A. J. Preller was still with the Rangers. Six of the trades mentioned are within the last 5 years.
The Soto trade is the worst trade in Padres history. You’d have to be a total Padres homer to think the package Preller got back was worth even half as much as the one he gave up. Which is odd because you were calling for Preller to get the ax all the way back during the 2016 season. Why the change?
Oh and the package the Nats got for Soto was all prospects/post-prospects. Soto was always going to outproduce those dudes in the first year or two.
C. J. Abrams and MacKenzie Gore have produced 5.4 WAR for the Nats already and are controlled through 2028. And are making the league minimum for one more year apiece before they will be first time arb eligible as Super Two’s.
Which package would you rather have? C. J. Abrams, MacKenzie Gore, Robert Hassell, James Wood and Jarlin Susana or Michael King, Drew Thorpe, Jhony Brito, Randy Vasquez and Kyle Higashioka? And if you pick the former you can still do something like trade CJ Abrams, Robert Hassell and Jarlin Susana for MLB starting pitching.
It pains me to have to revisit this issue. But for what it’s worth, I’d like to make it clear: the Padres lost the Darvish and Musgrove trades.
Almost forgot. The Padres traded away 4 top 100 prospects including a top 20 prospect overall, 12 prospects in their top 30, and two major league starters in 2020-2021 offseason in trades for Snell, Musgrove, and Darvish.
That was after trading for Nola and Clevinger the season before.
Then the Soto/Bell trade in 2022.
The farm system is back to top 10 rankings with 6 top 100 prospects today.
Abrams has turned out to be mediocre. A glove first SS that can’t hit.
Gore is a below league average starter.
Hassell is done. A .222 BA and .622 OPS for the Nats organization. He is a bust.
Wood is in AA and striking out 37% of the time. You can count on ONE finger the number of players that struck out that much in AA and made any impact in the majors. EVER. Joey Gallo. That is it.
Susana just put up a 5.14 ERA in low A ball.
Soto – MLB player with a 158 OPS+
Bell – MLB player with a 155 OPS+
King – MLB player
Brito – MLB player
Vasquez – MLB player
Higgy – MLB player
Thorpe – top 100 prospect with 1.48 in AA to end 2023
@Pads Fans…
Bell and Voit basically cancel each other out. Both tanked down the stretch for their new teams, became free agents after 2022 and signed elsewhere.
As I mentioned, Abrams and Gore produced 5.4 WAR (0.1 below Soto) in 2023 while costing less and being controlled longer. Although you also have to give some points to Soto for producing all of that out of 1 roster spot instead of 2.
That trade was ALWAYS going to favor the Padres in the first year and a half. It was a win now trade for them and a win later trade for the Nats. Thank you for describing every win-now trade ever.
Abrams had a 95 OPS+ in 2023. So 5% below league average with great defense. Or basically what Ha-Seong Kim was before 2023. There’s still value there. And you assume the bat won’t get any better.
Gore has been inconsistent for sure but when he’s on, he’s a #1. Did you see when the Padres faced him this year and he struck out the first 6 guys he faced? He reminds me of Blake Snell in some ways. Niebla was able to coax the good Snell out often enough that he won a CYA in Padre brown. Who says he couldn’t have done it with Gore?
Hassell, Wood and Susana could have been traded for *better* pitchers than the ones the Padres got from the Yankees if you are so certain about them being busts.
Brito, and Vasquez may have *touched* the Majors but they are still far from proven. As for Thorpe, what is that number you always cite about the percentage of top 100 prospects who end up busting? The rule applies to him just as much as any other top 100 prospect. The odds aren’t in any of those guys’ favors that they will even be as good as MacKenzie Gore.
King didn’t do much of anything before 2022, has a limited track record as a starter and only has 2 years of club control.
The fact of the matter is Preller invested a lot of surplus value in a player whose trade value was rapidly declining as his club control and the false hope of extending him were quickly evaporating. That was always going to look bad unless he got a championship out of it while Soto was still in San Diego. He did not.
Two things I forgot to mention. You compared King’s production in 2022-23 to Abrams’. C. J. Abrams had no business being in the majors in 2022. King also outproduced a bunch of other guys in 2022 who will make the All Star game in like 2030. Not at all a fair comparison. Abrams outproduced King in 2023 and the smart money is on him doing it again in 2024.
And what’s your take on why James Wood is ranked in the top 10 overall on MLBPipeline despite there only being 1 player who struck out that much in AA and went on to make an impact at the MLB level? It’s not like prospect evaluators aren’t aware of this. They are paid to be aware of it.
Still wanna know what caused you to become a Preller defender after predicting him getting the ax as early as the 2016 season and then referring to him as “the worst GM in the history of the Padres” after he traded Luis Urias even though Preller has made at least 5 separate trades that were worse than the Urias trade since that one went down.
@Rally Goose You forgot Matt Brash who, contrary to popular belief, was not in the Austin Nola trade but rather was in a separate trade for Taylor Williams.
It kinda sounds like you do.
No. Preller has run the Pobres into the ground. But go ahead and defend. I’ll just sit back and laugh at you.
They tried playing with the big boys!
I’m sorry the owner died, he had passion for the sport!
But Preller needs to go and they need to reset…. Trade Tatis because nobody will give anything for Machado and boegarts.
The current Padres ownership completely trashed all the good will built up through Peter Seidler.
On the path to being the A’s.
Last place for years to come.
@towinagin: You’re mindlessly catastrophizing for clicks. You’re also feigning high drama and making a spectacle of yourself.
dude you are a blithering moron and should not insult the great fans of oakland who are actually losing their team! their is not actual connection between spending tons of money and winning a championship. great teams are built on depth. maybe you just shut the hell up!
That’s ridiculous way too early in the off-season to draw that kind of conclusion
Ever considered therapy towinagain?
Get some help
Obviously, you didn’t read the article
‘face major uphill battle as they look to improve’
‘Wiggle room’
Phrases that do not reflect a proactive ownership group.
This is a vieled firesale.
@ towinagain I feel your pain, but dude I’d hate to be sitting next to you in a plane with turbulence.
If it was a firesale they wouldn’t have got King from the Yankees.
You sound like a spoiled front runner fan dude.
Not sure he’d be too fun to sit next to on a plane without turbulence either
Or flatulence!
@towinagain: Your post is a failed attempt to spell VEILED.
B88
“I feel your pain, but dude I’d hate to be sitting next to you in a plane with turbulence.”
Bwa hah hah hah hah
Perfect
I’d hate to be sitting next to you in a plane with turbulence.
========================
LOL! I had that once. Wonderful old African American woman sitting next to me when we hit some hellacious turbulence. She had her nails dug into my arm like a cat in a tree. She was praying we’d land safely while I was praying she wouldn’t leave scars on my arm.
Interesting times.
How do you know he’s not making up new words like Shakespeare? Don’t knock someone trying to elevate the English language.
@Blue Baron I was about to say that, glad you pointed it out first.
@DroppedThirdStrike: Not sure if you were addressing me, but he is short on intellect by several orders of magnitude to be mistaken for Shakespeare.
What a whiny beotch. They trade Soto and you become Ms Whiner.
Do you remember what Lin said the Padres HAD to do after the 2020 season? According to Lin they HAD to cut payroll to $100 million. How did that turn out?
Musgrove, Snell, Darvish all in a Padres uniform. Payroll at $174 million to start the 2021 season.
Have you noticed that since the NY Times took over the Athletic, that Lin and Rosenthal NEVER have any named sources anymore? I mean, WTF are “people briefed on the club’s thinking”. Noticed that there are no interviews with team FO personnel? That all the Athletic writers do today is make claims based on unnamed sources and those sources almost always contradict what the actual FO and ownership has said publicly?
They reached out to Kutsenda who said the Padres would not comment on payroll, but even if he did say they were cutting payroll, it would not matter in terms of their revenue. Do you know why? Season tickets are sold out. Most games are 100% sold out. Unless you want to go to a midweek games against a team that no one really cares about, you can’t get a ticket.
In the article that Lin published today he said the Padres made a very competitive bid to Lee. What he didn’t say is that it was 5/90. Broke teams don’t make offers like that.
He also didn’t mention what local media have been saying about Soto. That the Padres offered him a 15/542 extension and he turned it down days before he was traded. They just say the Padres HAD to trade Soto to cut payroll and conveniently leave out the part about the $542 million offer. Broke teams don’t make $500 million offers.
So please take your head out of the oven. Its early in the offseason and the majority of the good FA are still out there. And Trader AJ still has a huge amount of prospects in his prospect capital account.
If Soto was offered an extension, everyone would have heard it by now…it would have been on The Athletic, then MLBTR. Highly highly dubious on that extension. You say it was all over local media…can you be specific?? Need a source on that supposedly rejected extension to Soto.
Go listen to the Gwynn and Chris show. Its available on Audacy. 97.3 FM San Diego.
I live here in San Diego…please tell me which “local media” have reported the Padres made a 15/542 extension offer to Soto. I must have missed that
They just say the Padres HAD to trade Soto to cut payroll and conveniently leave out the part about the $542 million offer.
=====================
My next question would be: “If they had $542M of spend available, where were they on the Ohtani sweepstakes?”.
Pads Fan
Do you have a citation for the purported $542 million offer to Soto?
I have an unnamed source that said the Cubs offered Ohtani 10/800 million.
Can we get some links on the Lee and Soto offers?
Astute comment about The Athletic, Pads. I’ve lamented the NYT’s sports page demise since the day it happened.
You really have to be deluded to think that this franchise is penny pinching. You simply have the worst GM in the sport. He was given money. He spent money. He chose poorly. You’ll be feeling the effects for years. But don’t blame ownership.
The owner chose Melvin. The owner chose poorly.
The TEAM Preller put together was #1 in ERA, #5 in DRS and #4 in OAA, #6 in OPS+. So the players did their jobs and did them well. A few underperformed what we wanted them to do, but as a whole the team was very, very good.
The team lost an inordinate number of 1 run and extra inning games. The most in MLB and the highest percentage in team history. That is on the manager. The number of times Melvin brought in a LHP to face multiple RHB or a RHP to face multiple LHB is insane. The number of times he left in a struggling LHB to face a LHP and vice versa late in a close game was horrid. The Padres were 2 wins away from making the playoffs and Melvin lost more than twice that with his bad pitching moves alone.
Preller has also rebuilt the farm system in less than 2 years to once again be one of the best in baseball. Two top 10 prospects and 6 in the top 100 with at least 3 that should move into the top 100 by the March updates. Plus they are the odds on favorites to land Leo Devries, the #1 international free agent, when the signing period opens on January 15th.
@padsfan Padres Pythagorean Win-Loss Record in 2023 was 93-69 …pretty decent, no? Talk about some bad luck.
Preller is one of the best at building a farm system. However, he builds a team with little regard to team chemistry or line-up construction.
You said it.
What part of the line-up construction was poor in your mind?
Cronenworth? He was great at 1B the year before and there was no one on the FA market or that was traded at the position that was better. Other than that no one played out of position.
Chemistry? Do you remember the Yankees that won all those rings from 1995-2000. They had fist fights between players.
The Padres biggest problem in 2023 was the manager and he is gone.
Why anyone listens to the garbage that pads fans says is beyond me.
The truth is beyond his comprehension. If it doesn’t fit with his own ideas—it’s simply garbage
Towinagain is the reason why teams shouldn’t try. No matter what he’s unhappy.
Then he should switch to bring a Yankees fan; we’ve perfected that art…
I feel so bad for Padres fans. Really wish they had gotten a WS or at least an NL championship.
Coop – Sorry but I don’t like when any team buys a WS or LCS by spending like a drunken sailor.
And I’m still a little annoyed about certain Pads Fans who kept telling everyone they were wrong about Soto being traded and the team needing to reduce payroll.
Fever aren’t you a Boston fan?
It’s weird how we draw lines in the sand like this. I agree with you but again aren’t you a Red Sox fan?
It wasnt buying a championship in Bostons case bc Boston fans are a downtrodden lot you.
Joel – Yes I am and the fact they had the highest payroll in 2018 does cheapen that championship for me a bit too.
It shouldn’t be weird to you that I’m unbiased, but I know unfortunately that’s the world we live in today.
unfortunately that’s the world we live in today.
=============================
Part of the evolution on this is that we had to keep up with the NYY. In 2004, we were 2 in spending with $127M which kind of qualifies as trying to buy a pennant.
OTOH, the NYY spent $184M, Had we spent like the average team, thee would be no reason to show up.
Joe – To me spending trying to compete with the biggest spender is not trying to buy a championship. Especially when the biggest spender is in your division, and the payroll gaps were huge.
The hilarious part is that he has disappeared. Too gutless to face the music.
No sympathy here. They revelled in winning a few off seasons. It’s sport. You take the lows and the highs.
Yeah, it was the manner in which certain fans arrogantly addressed those discussing the various articles predicting the Soto trade by reputable insiders.
Bingo. Welcome back, Clipper. Good to see.
Fopp – You can’t possibly be talking about me now can you.
The job of a POBO or a GM is to sell the team to the fans. It is accomplished in two ways. The first and harder way is by winning. The second and easier way is by getting positive headlines. Both sell tickets and attract viewers. That’s why Prellar is still in charge.
FPG: I think he was talking specifically about PadsFan…. I didn’t take it that he was referencing you, if he was.
No
Clip – Agreed! And the debt non-compliance was a documented fact. Crazy anybody would refuse to acknowledge it.
BTW – Good to see you again!
Clip – Thanks, yeah you’re right. I was rushing to make a flight, no excuses though.
You mean like the Red Sox did for a decade?
In late 2020 Lin said the Padres had to cut payroll to under $100 million. Instead they traded for Darvish, Snell, and Musgrove and opened 2021 with a $174 million payroll.
On the Gwynn and Chris show we learned that the Padres offered Soto 15 years and $542 million a few days before he was traded. Once he turned that extension offer down it was inevitable that he would be traded. If they were trying to stay under $200 million, they wouldn’t have offered him that much money.
Lin mentions in the article that they reference here that the Padres made Jung Hoo Lee a competitive offer. They offered 5/90. If they were forced to keep payroll down, why would they offer him $18 million AAV? That is right. They wouldn’t.
Common sense isn’t.
Lin talks about the fact that the Padres took out a loan, but fails to mention who from, even though he knows it was Ascendant Capital. That is the company that is funding the development at Tailgate Park. If you want to read more about that $1.5 billion project take a look at cisterra.com/tailgatepark
He KNOWS that is what the loan is for, but that won’t get as many people to click on his articles, so he made unsubstantiated claims that it was for payroll even though in the very article about the loan he quoted a Padres executive as saying the loan was for an expense that had not happened yet. Payroll is already paid out in full in mid-September.
Keep on being annoyed with me being right. I am perfectly ok with that.
Ugh. Stop, please.
Annoyed with you for being right? You mean like when you were right about Ohtani’s CBT hit? Oh wait…
Just another delusional Padres fan.
If that offer to Soto is true (and I believe you), that is exactly what I would have offered to Soto, and exactly what I would have done if he turned it down (traded him).
Crazy for Soto to turn down that kind of money, again, and even crazier that it is probably going to pay off for him.
If you didn’t insist on telling everyone how much smarter and more informed you are, they wouldn’t turn around and give you such a hard time when you’re proven wrong.
MLB has still not said what it will be. Happy to take my licks if they say something other than what I have said. Talk to me again at the end of the season.
From what they were saying on the show, They think he wants $43+ million AAV on a 14-15 year FA deal. Add that to the $32-33 million he will make in arbitration this season and that is a minimum of $632-633 million.
If he and Boras truly believe he can get that, the $36 million AAV the Padres offered is way off the mark.
I really enjoyed watching him play as a Padre and good luck to him.
Pads Fans, counter point on that supposed offer to Soto:
The San Diego UT said the Pads never offered Soto an extension.
Did Gwynn and Chris break news to contradict this?
Link and quote:
sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2023-…
“It did not take any special reading glasses to glean between the lines of what Preller said in confirming the sides never discussed the particulars of an extension.
‘I think we had a general sense, in terms of … things that were important to Juan,’ Preller said Wednesday.
In discussions with Boras, the most powerful agent in the business and notorious for taking his highest-profile (highest-earning) clients to free agency, it was clear Soto was comfortable playing his final season under team control before testing the market.
‘I think we understood kind of the dynamic,’ Preller said. ‘A lot of players like to get to free agency, like to use that last year (of arbitration eligibility) kind of usually use it as a springboard to free agency. So, you know, ultimately, we kind of weighed all of that out and decided to make the deal.'”
Pads Fans – Which decade are you referring to?
Do some research for once before taking a stance.
2013 the Sox were $70M behind the Yankees in payroll.
2007 they were $46M behind the Yankees
2004 they were $58M behind the Yankees
Like I said 2018 was a bit cheapened by the fact they DID buy a championship that year.
As the Padres financial situation, what part of being in non-compliance with the league do you not understand?
In fairness, Boston was 2nd in MLB payroll in 2004 and 2007 and 4th in 2013. But honestly, many teams that win are in the top 10 in payroll, so there are plenty who buy titles to some degree.
Cuban – I had listed like 6 things off the top of my head he was wrong about. If he at least offered a “my bad” a few times, it wouldn’t rub people the wrong way as much.
Carl – Your handle fits you perfectly, angry and confrontational! But the real Carl will always have a soft spot in my heart, as I was directly behind the plate for the Mussina Sunday night game. You probably haven’t a clue what I’m talking about, which is fine.
To answer your question, leading MLB in payroll means you have a financial advantage over every other team. It’s like Rosie Ruiz “winning” the Boston Marathon, when she had a better starting point.
Just my opinion, to each their own.
BTW – I was in the movie, it was a blast. Love me some Drew Barrymore.
15 of the last 16 WS winners were top 8 in payroll.
Cam, Unfortnately, I think you just described most commentors in mlbtr (if I’m honest, myself included), and more broadly, the nature of homo sapiens. It’s why as a profession I study other more collectively sane species.
Ma – I completely agree. Top third in payroll have always had an advantage, and always will.
What I’d like to see is both a payroll cap and minimum payroll requirement. I’d also implement something like the Larry Bird rule, where you can spend as much as you want to retain your own players.
@fever ive always liked the cap and floor idea. Hadn’t heard of that last one… interesting
When MLB announces what it is, then you can say I am wrong about that. MLB has not weighed in yet.
When was I proven wrong?
Yes, they did. Acee is a bad joke. Ask anyone that reads him daily. He is the same guy that started this BS about cutting payroll only to backtrack a day later.
From 2000 to 2019 the Red Sox were never out of the top 5 in spending and were in the top three in payroll 15 times.
So TWO decades.
Its only been since COVID that they have not been a big spender. Even in 2021-2023 they were 6th, 5th, and 12th.
Acee, the source of them being out of compliance, recanted on that the very next day. 23 teams were out of compliance after 2020 but the Padres had submitted a plan to get back in compliance and were in compliance in 2023. Do some research.
The Padres are a revenue sharing PAYOR. That means top 14 in revenue. The CEO said they didn’t lose money in 2023.
So you don’t study any of the great apes?
“When was I proven wrong?”
Yes.
I’m glad they didn’t extend Soto . He is going to be an expensive DH soon. Teams like the Padres revenue don’t need to tie up all money into that many players with huge contracts . Padres had absolutely no depth last year . Fill as many holes with the budget left. Hope manny , tatis, and X has great year , bring up some youngster let’s play ball .
I think that he will be a fairly affordable LF/RF in 2024. By the end of the 14 year deal he is likely to get in FA, he will probably have spent half at DH. He is such a good hitter and hitting declines at a slower rate than fielding, so he could still provide enough value in the first half of that contract to carry the 2nd half.
Given my druthers, I would have extended him. Once he turned down more than a half billion dollars, I don’t think many teams will be in the running to sign him in FA. Yankees. Dodgers. Phillies. Cubs. Giants. Maybe the Red Sox if Henry decides to become a spender again. That is pretty much it.
Then maybe they should’ve won more games? 1 NLCS win is nowhere near a championship
They had a hell of a parade for it though!
If my team can’t win it, I’d like to see the Padres do so. Maybe they will do better with the old “addition by subtraction” honestly I’m not sure how they bad lucked themselves to 82-80. Wouldn’t surprise me if they ended up with 90 wins and surprised all the doubters in 2024.
Pads fans for biggest bloviating clown of 2023!
They did get the NL championship… in 1984.
and 1998
Fans whinning about owners not spending like drunken sailors in 321…
deGrom…. I’m not sure why you think fans are making horse sounds-but it’s “whinnying”
*whining
I was just being facetious on a typo/not actually trying to correct your spelling
Charlie Sheen – “Winning”.
Nay.
Quit horsin’ around.
Here’s where all the naysayers and overvaluers on the Juan Soto trade say “We’ll just keep him then” right?
Yankees screwed us over just as much as the Padres current post Peter Seidler ownership group.
I have been a die hard Padre fans since the 80’s. I’m curious how long of a fan of the team you have been? I feel like I have read 20 comments the past few days from you in pure agony.
Remember when they had 40m payrolls really not that long ago (early 2010s)? Remember the team whose best player was Chase Headley and even he they couldn’t afford to keep? I
We have studs like Fernando Tatis Jr. and Manny Machado, two top 10 prospects in Ethan Salas and Jackson Merrill. If a 180-200m payroll brings such turmoil, look back to the afformentioned days of the past.
The franchise has spent a majority of its existence shopping the bargain bins. Yeah it stinks we can’t make all the big moves but so what, there is still so much to like and I think there is a very good chance the 2024 team wins more games than the 2023 team even if there are less star players…
Look at the 2001 Mariners, after losing Alex Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr., and Randy Johnson in three consecutive years they go on to win 116 games, the most in mlb history.
I don’t think you have the right guy. 20 comments in the last few days? I’ve maybe made 4 in the last month. I did have a spirited exchange with a few Padres fans during the Soto rumor phase. Most were asking for the moon and stars for one year of a player. A player you could not afford to keep. Padres fans on this site kept insisting you could afford to keep him. This articles reads otherwise.
To address your further points a lot there is true. Big market vs small market. I get it. Small markets have to build more creatively from the farm on up. I think Thorpe is gonna be good for you guys and King already has a plus ceiling. Yes you have big stars. So do we. Judge, Cole, etc. we have young talent as well Volpe, Jones, etc.
I’m trying to discern the point you’re trying to make. Is it that the Padres have been just as good as the Yankees? I’d argue that but there’s a good debate there. Is it you’re trying to “call me out” for my comment? I don’t think you have. Is it that my comment was wrong? I’d disagree wholeheartedly. At the time Padres were considering trading Soto this offseason, they were dealing from a weak position. They had to trade him due to their financial situation. The biggest difference between large and small market teams is big market teams can afford to retain players. Small markets have a high turnover. Fact
Just don’t want to see the Padres return to the Kyle Blanks, Alexis Amarista, Solarte days of getting no hit twice by an aging Tim Lincecum.
Or shipping out a Cory Kluber for a Ryan Ludwick. Trading Jake Peavy for Clayton Richard.
Shipping out Adrian Gonzalez for Andrew Cashner.
This is where this team is headed back to those days. The glory days of 2008-09 or 2011 – 2015.
Do.we want to go back to that?
@LostYank. hey I think Padrepapi was responding to towinagain, not you
But that Mariners team added a Japanese player who won RotY and MVP and a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger, and was a playoff team in 2000, making it to the ALCS that year.
They lost a 10 WAR player and immediately plugged in an 8 WAR player.
Maybe the Padres will experience addition by subtraction, but I don’t think having Juan Soto on their team is what ailed them. Nor do I think watching the reigning NL Cy Young winner leave, along with probably the best closer in the game, is going to lead to a huge improvement from 82-80.
For whatever reason, this Padres team has underperformed repeatedly, despite acquiring lots of talent every year.
Ah… thank you
2017. $ 69,624,400 (29)
THAT is what Padres fans are used to.
Sorry for the confusion lost yank…. I was replying to that towinagain pleasantry.
@Brew thank you I guess I misread that lol
@padrepapi That’s on me brother. I didn’t catch the subtext. My bad.
LostYank. Given that you thought papi’s comment was directed at you, I thought your initial reply was surprisingly respectful! lol
I believe it was actually Anthony Rizzo traded for Andrew Cashner. But point taken.
Peavy – 83 starts 537.2 IP 4.00 ERA for White Sox
Richard – 107 starts 636.2 IP 4.10 ERA for Padres in 2009-2013.
(he came back later in his career for 3 more seasons)
The Padres also got Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter and Adam Russell. in that trade. None of which did anything of note in a Padres uniform.
Padres cleared $53 million in salaries off the books in that trade and Richard was not a bad pitcher for the Padres at all.
In the season following that trade the Padres won 90 games without Peavy and missed the playoffs by 1 game to the Braves. Just one Wild Card team then.
The White Sox didn’t make the playoffs with Peavy at all.
towinagain11 hours ago
Yankees screwed us over just as much
========================
It was a fair trade. As I told “some” Padre fans, a guy with a 5.5 WAR, and a $33M salary, has excess value of about 2.5 WAR.
It’s true but the Yankees aren’t exactly doing much with their big payrolls lately.
@ JoelP Not recently that’s true. Looks like they’re going all in on this season though so we’ll see. That Stanton albatross and a few other bad deals have hurt. The difference is though the Yankees have the financial might to withstand a few bad contracts and still compete. Look at the last half of ARod’s contract.
Dude it’s kind of tacky as a fan of the Yankees to tell everyone how much money they have to spend. That’s not what sports are supposed to be about at all.
Baseball is lame. Too many frontrunner spoiled fans. And I am a Cardinals fan saying this. Gosh if we didn’t have Pujols for 11 years I probably would be watching hockey right now.
@JoelP I think we disagree on this one. Baseball is all about regional fan bases. Small Narket, Big Market… doesn’t really matter. Any team can spend big and most have done it. It’s how much the owners profits are going to be cut to spend on the team. Tv rights and the like do play into it.. but if you build a good team, stations are going to want to air them. If you build it they will come right? Must small market owners care more about pocketing profits and crying poor then reinvesting in their brand. I’m glad the Yankees can buy who they want. It grows the brand bigger and bigger and allows them to field great teams. That is what baseball is about, fielding the best team you can with what you have to work with. Side note: The first game I went to was Jeter’s first home game. My dad took me. Been hooked ever since.
The Yankees can’t be the Yankees without a scrub team around to beat up on. Thats how baseball works and frankly it was much worse back in the day.
It’s lame that you as a Yankees fan are saying all this. It’s lame. You can disagree all you want.
@JoelP Well … you can call me lame, I can call you jealous… hate all you want it doesn’t change the situation. As for scrub teams… in order for someone to win, 29 other teams gotta lose brother.
@LostYankeeinexile
I’m gonna jump in here. What is it you’re trying to prove? Do you understand that big markets arise from regional population size, and TV deals are long term ventures, monopolies. Can’t just wave a magic wand and change to another provider.
In the case of the Padres, they are among a bunch of MLB teams who are facing loss of broadcast coverage because Diamond Sports Group which provides it declared bankruptcy. MLB had to step in to keep broadcasts going.
Big markets can lose coverage too. It wasn’t all that long ago when cable provider disputes kept the Yankees off the air..
Teams can also spend big and lose. Or spend big and spend stupid. Spend big and have horde of players on IL. Small and medium markets also win – and lose. The Yankees have been one of those 29 teams since 2009.
@Longtime All of what you said is correct, but you left out the most important bit. Big Market teams can afford big players whether it’s retaining them or acquiring them through free agency. It’s not like small market teams are left in the dust either. They use qualifying offers for compensatory draft picks, recieve luxury tax fees when big market teams go over the thresholds , get higher draft picks during down years that many tank seasons to inflate. In this case though what I’m arguing is the Padres were never going to be able to afford keeping Soto. If any fan has looked at the going rate for big time hitters OR pitchers for that matter… the cost is only going up. SD needs to grow its market and be willing to spend. That’s the owners problem. The fans are going to have to spend more eventually on tickets. It’s not just about a tv deal. Do you know how much a ticket is at Yankee stadium? That’s another reason they have the money to pay Cole and Judge. Small market team owners would LOVE to be in bigger markets. It would give them more options. There’s not a team in the last 40 years that’s one a WS without a free agent. Free agents cost money. Retaining stars costs money. Most if not all MLB owners make a ton of money. Some spend it some horde it. Some spend it wisely some buy championships. The point is that fans believe in the fallacy of poor teams. Every MLB owner is filthy rich. Every MLB team is a money making venture of high proportions. Don’t get mad at the Yankees, get mad at your teams owners. If you’re gonna hate at least aim it where it belongs.
You are so misinformed. Market has a massive impact on income.
@1984 No … market GROWTH has a massive impact on income. If you’re not growing your market you don’t make an income. Do you think Kansas City as a market can’t afford an mlb team? It’s certainly a sports town the Chiefs are doing fine. So why are the Royals not making as much? Answer, ownership pocketing the profits and not reinvesting. It’s pure greed.
Dallas lost their RSN this offseason. They are a top 5 market in size.
A team can’t GROW their market. The markets are defined by MLB.
They can grow their revenue. The Padres did it by increasing fan excitement and ticket sales by spending and by bringing in more sponsorship money due to there being no other major sports in town.
NFL and MLB are apples and oranges comparisons. In the NFL all revenue in the sport is shared evenly among all teams and there are no local TV or radio deals. NY and LA are on the same footing revenue wise as Green Bay and Indianapolis.
In MLB the large market teams get more revenue just from TV than the smallest markets have overall. Its not an equal playing field.
SOME owners in smaller markets like Nutting are pocketing profits. So are some in larger markets like Fisher and before this year Liberty Media.
Some in smaller markets like the Padres are spending their profits on the team. Some in larger markets like the Mets are spending more than they are making on the team.
Would love to see the Mariners trade for Kim.
Ignorant
Mariners could package a young starting pitcher for Kim and a lesser prospect
@Manny That probably would be too much because I think Kim only has one year left on his contract and a young Mariners pitcher would have 4-5 years of club control.
ISoB: Do the Mariners need a SS? I wonder if they would line up with the Yanks for a trade of Peraza? He’s like Kim but with more power. Defensive excellence at SS, but his hitting needs to adjust to the Bigs.
Clip: if he could play 2nd; that would be ideal. I know the Mariners have also shown interest in Gleyber in the past but he would be down to a one year rental now…and I think the Yanks want to keep him. I like the idea of Peraza a lot though.
Overvaluers? The Padres got 4 MLB players and a top 100 prospect. Two of which were players Yankees fans said were absolutely not going to be part of the deal in King and Thorpe. The Padres also got the Yankees #1 catcher. The Padres filled 4 spots in their major league 26 man roster and added another top 100 prospect to an already incredibly strong and deep farm system.
They got that a few days after Soto turned down an extension offer for $542 million. Something you can be sure the Yankees knew about.
@Pads Fan Padres got King (Valuable) Vazquez and Brito (MLB 7th and 8th Starters at best) Thorpe (good prospect but unproven against MLB hitters and pitchers get injured more than any other players) and Higashioka … not our number 1 … That’s Trevino … Higgy was our backup catcher and there was no room left so he’s a throw in to get the deal done. The only value you got in the deal was King. Everyone else is essentially a lotto ticket. There were Padre fans asking for our top 3 prospects plus King… or else the Pads could just keep Soto. You were never keeping Soto. That’s my point.
Higgy got 90 starts. Trevino 54. Higgy was the #1 in 2023
Higgy had an 85 OPS+ Trevino a 55 OPS+ Higgy was a better hitter in 2023.
Over the last 2 seasons combined
Higgy 172 starts. Trevino 164,
Higgy 84 OPS+. Trevino 78.
Until 3 days before the trade was made when Soto turned down a 15/542 extension, the Padres were intent on keeping Soto.
As it is they got King and Thorpe who Yankees fans on this site said were not available at all, plus Higgy, plus 2 back of the rotation MLB starters and a top 100 prospect to add to a stacked farm system.
It was certainly more of a return than I thought since Preller got 4 MLB players that would 100% make the OD roster for either SD or NYY and all I was thinking was Volpe or his equivalent and prospects.
Yankees get one of the best hitters in baseball and a 4th OF.
Good trade for both. Now we see who is going to pony up the $600 million Soto wants in FA next offseason.
@Pads Fan Trevino was injured and had season ending wrist surgery and didn’t even play half the season in 2023. He was the opening day catcher and Cole (Our Ace’s) preferred catcher not to mention the best hitting catcher on our roster. Higgy has never been more than a backup.
King has been an amazing reliever and got stretched out as a starter in the 2nd half. Looks like he can handle the job, but hasn’t pitched a full season as a starter ever and has an injury history.
Thorpe is a good prospect that’s never faced MLB hitters. Yes he makes a farm system look good but he’s unproven. He isn’t even the best pitching prospect in our system.
Vasquez and Bhrito are what? Innings fillers that haven’t had a sub 4.00 ERA season ever? They never were on an OD roster with the Yankees…. On their entire history with the team. They were on a 40 man but so were a lot of other guys to be rule 5 protected? What are you hyping about? You got King, a backup catcher, and an unproven pitching prospect plus a couple thrown in arms. For Soto? Even one year of Soto? Let’s not pretend you got the world here. The trade was what it was, but let’s look at the facts. Pads were never keeping him. Boras was never letting him extend, and Pads were never gonna have the money to change that. You’d have had to go Ohtani sized deal to change Boras’ mind, and with the current financial state of the Pads and the pitching losses to FA… even if you could keep him you couldn’t field a competitive team with his contract.
This whole, “grow your market” take is utterly ridiculous, it’s barely worth addressing.You’re essentially saying that it’s up to owners to grow their states and cities. And you clearly don’t understand things relative to one another. Yes, all mlb owners are rich compared to the general population but the amount of revenue (a pretty important thing to a business) they can bring in is completely dependent on their market size (ie: surrounding population).
For example, Milwaukee can’t grow their market because they have Chicago 1.5 hours south and only so much population in the state of WI. So, hence they take in 10 to 20 times less revenue(here’s that important word again) than the Dodgers and Yankees. Most other small to mid markets are the same, nowhere to grow. And a lot of these teams finish well above their market size in attendance, but the big money comes from broadcast rights.
So maybe just save the lectures to mid and small market teams, understand you have a pretty big advantage and let it play out.
@Wise … untrue. Milwaukee has the whole state of Wisconsin! What.. is Wisconsin not a sports state?? Tell that to the Packers! You’re trying to convince me that Brewers ownership can’t expand its market into the rest of the state? Well then maybe they shouldn’t be in business. Seems to me they’re just not interested in investing in what it takes to grow their brand. It’s the same equation as Ohtani taking deferred money. He makes enough marketing himself internationally. So isn’t Canada it too far away from Wisconsin? I mean there is PLENTY of room to grow, but owners prefer to pocket the cash. Geese and you call me bad at business? It doesn’t happen overnight, you have to build it up and constantly reinvest. That’s why their are so many Yankee hats in Latin America
I walked into a village in Nepal once and all the locals were wearing either Yankee hats or UCLA shirts.
Your point? Over a two year stretch Higgy out performed and played more games. He WILL be a backup catcher for the Padres. For the Yankees he shared the duties with Trevino in 2022, started far more games in 2023 while outperforming him over those two seasons. Cashman said he was the Yankees #1 catcher in 2023. Take it up with him if you don’t like the label.
I agree about King. As I said he will either take Lugo’s place at the back of the Padres rotation or he will be a high leverage reliever as he was in NY.
Brito is likely a LR/swingman as I have said
Vasquez – baseball-reference.com/players/v/vasqura02.shtml
The Padres have proven over and over that they view prospects, even the very best of them, as trade capital. Thorpe is another highly rated piece of trade capital.
Hyping? I have been very clear about what I think the value is to the Padres, but in no case did I HYPE anything. I stated facts.
The trade filled 4 holes in the Padres MLB roster and added another top 100 prospect to an already top 10 ranked farm system.
It was a good trade for both teams.
Padres offered Soto $542 million, so obviously they felt they could afford him just fine. The only reason he was traded is he declined the extension offer. They would have still have had Machado, Bogaerts, Tatis, Kim, Cronenworth, Darvish, and Musgrove on the roster if they kept Soto. They still have all of them now.
ALL the rumors of them cutting payroll are just that, rumors. The ownership, FO, and manager have not said anything of the sort. Even this latest article said they MIGHT cut below $200 million and PREFER to stay under the CBT, not that they HAVE TO.
@Pads Fan….. ok you’re living in a dream world. There was NO WAY PADRES could keep Soto. You keep saying “ the only reason is he declined an offer” that’s the point.. he was ALWAYS declining the offer. There was no way you were going to outbid whatever Boras wants for Soto and still be able to afford to field a competitive team. Not with any prospect capital you might have, not with near your whole starting rotation going FA. Come back to reality. They can offer 542 million but that was as high as they would go and he still said no. That’s the very definition of you not being able to afford him. I don’t think you understand that.
Higgy was also never stated as our number one catcher, by Cashman or anyone else. I don’t know where you’re getting your information. Boon did state when Trevino went down that he expected Higgy and Rorqvet to compete for time. Might want to get your story straight there.
As for hyping… well yes you kind of are. Originally you replied to my overvaluers comment. Relying on the trade return you got based on the unproven nature of prospects, limited sample size of non starting rotation arms, a backup catcher, and a bright but injury risk star in King cost you a year of a generational talent in Soto. You’ve pressed that you got a good deal and seem to be trying to convince yourself and by proxy me in this little debate, that those players are going to somehow tip the balance. My reply is, you have a lot more work to do to compete in that division with the holes you have left. The Padres freed up Sotos money and MAY have a serviceable player or two in return. What have they done with the money? Well now more articles of finance issues and cutting spending. You may want to prepare for some heartache here, looks like the rest of those holes aren’t gonna get filled by guys that can beat the Dodgers or Mariners.
Correction Dodgers and Diamondbacks.
Ok. Lost. Say goodbye. You are a troll. Facts don’t sway you and you keep repeating things that are patently untrue, so no reason to respond to you or even see your posts.
@Pads Fan. I think the guy replying MY post over and over attempting to call me a troll is hilarious. Talk about pot calling a kettle. You haven’t listed any facts to be swayed by just a personal opinion . As for you muting my replies.. oh how my heart is broken and aching how ever will I survive without you.
Will ’24 be the year of the Jackson rookies?
Or the year of Jackson Profile?
Not sure Bogaerts was necessary. Would’ve rather tried to retain Soto along with Tatis and perhaps move Machado if necessary.
That contract has a chance to be the worst in MLB history. We’ll see
Ohtani says hi
The padres have 3-4 of those contracts. They cut Prellers credit card in half for good reason. If they don’t make a deep run this year he has to be gone.
Dude saying Boegarts contract has a chance to be the worst contract in MLB history is pretty rich. He was worth over 4 wins this past year, he’ll probably provide 20-25 more with the Padres. When all is said and done they won’t have gotten a bargain, but okay value especially in today and future dollars.
Dude has won 5 silver sluggers, only 3 shortstops in the history of the game have won more (Ripken, Larkin, Arod). The only active players that have won more at any position are Trout (9) and Betts (6).
He won’t last at short with his defense and he inevitably tries to play through injuries which as he ages will likely increase. His production is already middling 1 year in and he was probably paid double what he was worth. I’d say there is a huge chance this turns very ugly. He was beloved in Boston and even hardcore fans of his cringed at that deal
Does anyone remember Manny Machado’s first year as a Padre? He scuffled at the plate a bit, but turned it around in subsequent seasons. I think the same will happen with Bogaerts.
Bogaerts signed a deal for $25.45 million AAV and had a 4.4 WAR which is $15 million surplus value. That was in a BAD season for him. His contract is almost a slam dunk to end up doing well for the Padres.
But calculate Bogaerts’ WAR as if he was a 1B and it would be much less. They could have extended Kim for much less.
You’re not really using the FanGraphs value of WAR are you?
Bogaerts isn’t a 1B and likely won’t ever be one. He is a SS and will be for at least another 3-4 years. Even when he moves off SS, it won’t be to 1B. It will be to 2B.
Kim was not as good of a player as Bogaerts in 2021 and 2022. Not even close. 7.1 WAR vs 10.9 WAR. 94 OPS+ vs 130 OPS+
So saying they should have extended Kim instead of signing Bogaerts only works with the benefit of hindsight. At the time of the signing Bogaerts was far and away the better player.
Why would I use a stat that is based on expected stats instead of what actually happened?
His contract is almost a slam dunk to end up doing well for the Padres.
===========================
You should think about extending him.
It was such a dumb contract. Didn’t need a shortstop whatsoever they just wanted to buy whatever free agent would say yes.
The owner died. And I imagine he knew his time was coming a year ago so I get it. But it was still a dumb contract.
When Bogaerts was signed Tatis was on suspension after missing all of 2022. When he was scheduled to return the Padres had already said it would be in the OF. Kim was no where close to as good as Bogaerts in his previous two seasons. The Padres had no top SS at the time.
It was a great signing and still is. He provided HUGE surplus value in 2023 and that was in a down season for him in which he was injured until he got a cortisone shot in early June. After he returned from a few days off in early June while he was getting that shot, he hit .320+ the rest of the way. Take a look at his game logs from June 9th through the end of the season.
So you are wrong again Joel.
This commenting on baseball is just not working out for you no mater how many times you try.
Bogaerts was a great signing. $25.45 million AAV for a guy that had average more than 5 WAR the previous 2 seasons. He had been better than Kim.
In 2023 he had a rough start to the season due to injury and still ended up with a 4.4 WAR and 120 OPS+, 6th best SS in MLB, and provided the Padres with $40 million in value.
Also, take a look at his 2nd half after he got the cortisone shot in his wrist in June.
AAV matters for guys signed to typical years of length. Bogaerts is signed to 40 years old. That contract will end terribly it’s basically a guarantee.
Wrong again. Even using what was a down season for Bogaerts as the platform year, based on age regression he will end up providing around 30-32 WAR as a Padre.
If there is ZERO wage inflation over the next 10 seasons that will provide $270-288 million in value. And how much is he being paid?
Of course there WILL be salary inflation in MLB, we have already seen it with the contracts so far this offseason. If its at the same pace the next 10 years that it has been the past 10 years, Bogaerts will provide around $340-350 million in value.
You are amusing, so keep on trying.
Joel P9 hours ago
AAV matters for guys signed to typical years of length.
==========================
It is really a $35M x 8 contract, and they didn’t bother to try to disguise it.
Finally figured it out. Pads fans has to be related to AJ Preller.
Not suggesting he’s a bad player or not worth a solid contract. The point I was driving was if the signing was “necessary?” The Padres had a nucleus of three top end hitters already in the lineup with a decent supporting cast following them. With the hit to the pitching department and the potential of losing many of them as they were aware, could they have funneled that money towards Soto and the pitching…? They gave up quite a bit for Soto and it will reflect. What they received from the Yankees is the usual over hyped prospects.
When Bogaerts was signed Tatis was on suspension after missing all of 2022 and the Padres had already said he would be playing in the OF when he returned in late April 2023. In 2021-2022, Kim was no where close to as good as Bogaerts was. The Padres had no top SS at the time.
So yes, it was necessary. Padres added Wacha and Lugo and resigned Martinez. At the time of the signing they had no holes in what would be the best pitching staff in baseball in 2023.
What they got from the Yankees was
King, a guy that will either be Lugo/Wacha redux or a high leverage reliever. Either way, he fills a definite need for the Padres. He had a 2.75 ERA and 3.2 WAR last season.
Higgy, the Yankees #1 catcher last season. A veteran catcher originally from SoCal that hits decently for a catcher and is great behind the plate who will slot in behind Campusano on the depth chart and can teach him the finer points of the position.
Brito, a 25 year old RHP who put up a league average ERA and ERA+ for the Yankees in 13 starts and 12 long relief appearances. A pitch to contact starter who also doesn’t walk many batters. I think he will end up being a swingman/LR for the Padres
Vasquez, a hard throwing 25 year old RHP. I think he ends up in the Padres pen because his velocity ticked up 2 points when he was used in 2 inning increments in September last year, but he could be used an emergency starter or part of an opener/piggyback situation like Martinez was for the Padres.
Thorpe, a 23 year old top 100 pitching prospect that is likely headed to San Antonio, but could get a cup of coffee if everything goes right for him and wrong for the Padres pitching staff in 2024.
Tatis was only out for a period of time and those three alone (Soto, Tatis, and Machado) were enough star offense to carry the team. Padres could’ve stuck a defensive SS in there – not everyone has to be a star hitter.
The return they got from the Yankees was bad. As for the pitching, the point being made, again, is that they could all leave at the end of the year (those you mentioned). The monies could’ve been redirected to a staff in future need rather than a long term contract for a hitter going from a hitters park to a pitchers park.
Tatis had been out ALL of 2022 and a portion of 2021. When he returned he would not be playing SS. No one knew what he would play like once he returned.
Bogaerts had been better than Kim.
Yes, it was necessary. The Padres needed another big bat. I would have preferred Turner and they tried to sign him first. They also tried to sign Judge.
Go ahead and try to explain why you think the return they got from the Yankees was bad.
We will be fine…
Here come all the Padres fans to claim the report is false lol.
I dint think people understand what the term “all in” means. It doesn’t mean you jack payroll up to never before seen levels and it just stays their forever.
I like the three prospects they mentioned. I can see 2 of those 3 turning into good MLB players
I’m a Padres fan and it was super annoying when those fans were talking like we could keep Soto and go get Yamamoto. “Acee is a liar and and a fraud”! I don’t think we’ll see them back here to admit they were wrong. They know who they are.
There was a post here a week or 2 ago about trading Soto and Padres fans swore up and down he wasn’t going to be dealt. Then the very next day he was.
I think you have it wrong, clearly he didn’t have to be dealt – padres have all of Sotos salary to spend still. But we brought back 4 young pitchers, 3 who looked pretty good under the big lights and a prospect who could contribute in 24. Padres traded Soto because they got a haul of young, mlb-proven pitching.
The Padres could not keep Soto and fill out the rest of their team and stay within their budget. That is why Soto was dealt. Yes he had to be dealt. They have the Soto money to spend now but without trading him they were screwed.
what makes you say that? The entire 2023 lineup was intact, we lost a bunch of 30-something pitchers who were at times good, but not close to great with the exception of Hader.
You lost Snell fella. The Cy Young award winner in 2023. Remember?
Hader perhaps best reliever in all of baseball now gone.
2 enormous losses man.
Snell and Hader were both great, youre right I did forget about Snell. Doesnt change the fact that they couldve been replaced by young guys coming up with Soto on this team and within the current budget – which is still likely top 10 in baseball.
Dude I was kidding. How do you forget Snell????
No the Cy Young winner and best reliever in baseball weren’t going to be replaced by in house options. That was never ever a possibility and that is exactly why Soto was dealt.
easy to forget when you look up and hes out of the game, the 5-inning guy. Hader was similar, he refused to pitch >1 inning which hurt us many times in close games. They gave us <240 innings combined with an era around 2. Replace them with a couple 4 era guys we are talking about 50 run differential.
We have some talented young pitchers, the trade bought some minor league seasoning for them, but thats it. I think the future is bright.
they need two more good SPs to get to playoffs and if they don’t go to playoffs Preller is done. I don’t see a lot of FA opportunities. For that reason I’m concerned Preller will trade key prospects to save his ar$e, which may not be the best plan for 2025, which could be a great year for Pads.
The Padres have a lot of good prospects. But you don’t get better when you lose the best starter and reliever in the game, not to mention the other losses and now of course Soto too.
That doesn’t mean you should stop being a fan and cheering for your team. But be real.
Please, buddy. Try to refrain from losing these arguments. We had to trade Soto. We don’t have the pitching depth we’re going to need still. Preller is going to have to field a team on a tight budget in 2024. Now let’s just see what happens and hope things work out in our favor next year. GO PADRES!
It’s not even that tight of a budget it’s just not as high as it was last year.
I am a Cardinal fan. 2nd most successful franchise all time behind the Yankees and the Cardinals have never had a budget as high as the Padres projected 2024 budget. Never ever ever.
240 innings of 2 era is replaced by a couple 4-era guys and a -50 run differential. <2 runs / game for 30 games. We were losing them both whether we kept soto or not because they had limited value with their innings limits.
Plus they have the Yankees #1 catcher who will be the backup to Campusano in San Diego.
Joel, the Padres offered Soto 15/542. It wasn’t until after he turned that down that they traded him.
But then you are the one that says BTV is a good measure of trade value and have tried to defend them even though they say the Padres should have been able to get Judge and MORE for Grisham alone. That Merrill for Lindor is so bad that it should be rejected, BY THE PADRES. So what is the value of your opinion really?
Hader was a cancer that refused to pitch a 4th out or two days in a row. Good riddance.
@PadsFan Higashioka was never the Yankees #1 catcher. Possibly when Trevino was out; and before Wells got there. But Higy is nobodies #1 catcher. He has some power but no hit tool and decent on defense.
the dbacks went to the ws with 2 starters with eras under 3.5 and a mish-mash of 4-7 era guys in their rotation. starting pitching is important but we had and have guys that can put up those kind of numbers without snell, lugo, wacha, and martinez.
You don’t understand money. The Judge contract is underwater fella. Someone has to pay that salary of they acquire him that’s why he has no trade value. How do you not understand that? Did you just start watching baseball?
Hader refused to pitch 2 innings in a game when the Padres were out of contention and headed for the beach.
Yeah real cancer lol. You sound like a jealous ex.
“when the Padres were out of contention” – you mean the final 3 games of the year? we finished 2 behind the nl champs. Believe me, all those one-run losses and worst record in extras was related to Hader refusing to pitch 4 outs or back to back days.
Yes blame the best reliever in baseball for the Padres choking in extras. That makes perfect sense.
not blaming him, im saying he wasnt there. He got his 3 outs and that was that. its very similar to Snell, giving up 0 or 1 run but out of the game after 5 with 4 innings to go.
the teams that sign these guys will understand their value is limited, the numbers look great their impact / $ isnt there to justify resigning them, especially with age and regression, whether we kept soto or not.
@Joel P,
In the most nuanced of technicalities, can’t have trade value when not on the market and have full no trade rights.
But can have trade value even for Judge with his huge contract and injury history as long as there’s interested teams with big pockets, or those with smaller who have high end quality prospects or young majors leaguers to trade and Judge agrees to waive his no trade rights, and Yanks pay part of the bill.
But this is exercise in futility because Judge will not be traded nor does he want to be.
Judge signed his deal coming off an MVP season. Last year he got hurt. He absolutely has negative trade value. No team would pay him that contract after his 2023 season when he was hurt.
what makes you say that?
========================
Last I looked, they lost about 630 innings, and their best ERAs.
As I mentioned to “some” Padre fans, they could not put together the 2023 Padre team without $325M+. If they weren’t going to do that, trading Soto was plan B.
Great ERA, but ERA isn’t a great measure of success for a guy who will only pitch to 3 batters at a time, and only twice a week. Hader was not the best closer in MLB, the best closer can be counted on to get a 4th out in a big game. It will be interesting to see how Hader is used (or how he dictates how he’s used) on his next team. I can imagine the negotiations with prospective clubs are hilarious.
Acee himself said he was wrong about the debt service ratio garbage. But Lin is still talking about it.
I am RIGHT here.
Never left.
Admittedly, back then Yamamoto was only perceived as a $200 million guy
Joel
I’ve been reading all of your posts over the past few weeks on Padres stuff. I don’t read a lot of other teams stuff so I’m just wondering do you get this involved to banter with all other fan bases or do the Padres just hold your interest. I personally don’t k ow enough about other teams farms to even respond to much and rarely do on another team unless it’s tied to the Padres.
Real question and I don’t think I’ve attacked or criticized you here so if you don’t mind, just answer my curiosity.
I like to discuss other teams. I am a Cardinals fan but I find it interesting to discuss other teams with their fans. I learn a lot by doing that and try to stay informed with what’s going on all throughout the league.
I dont mind having differing opinions for sure and certainly don’t recall you saying something weird or anything like that. What does get frustrating is when teams act like their players are incredibly valuable and other teams players aren’t.
For example back in July I was discussing trades with Orioles fans. I like the Orioles they have a lot of good young talent fun to watch team. I suggested trading Paul Goldschmidt to them for Colton Cowser and Orioles fans were saying I was being ridiculous. Last years MVP but these guys kept saying how great Cowser is.
I wish people didn’t have such a bias for their own team. But again I do enjoy discussing other teams and what they should or shouldn’t do.
Joel
Thanks for filling me in. I’ve followed the o’s rebuild a little and I believe a get line PG or a TOR guy would have gone a long way. Similar to SD right now, they have a deep farm and well, do t have a foreseeable need for some of them so yes, trade those suspects for a proven commodity!
As to your last point, I think “fan”atic speaks for itself. It wouldn’t be the same if fans didn’t feel over the top for their team. For sure, some fans are worse than others but every fan base has their own guys that are crazy and unrealistic and will never give it up. It’s not just SD or NYY or LAD or BOS or PHILLY or STL or CUBS or NYM or ….
Yeah the Orioles needed a pitcher more and ended up with Flaherty but he was too volatile and it didn’t work out.
You are a Padres fan correct? I find the Padres interesting for sure. I respect the fact they are trying to go for it and that they have such a good farm system. But I really don’t like that Bogaerts contract it makes me mad thinking about it.
Yeah all teams have fans that are a bit over the top. Cardinals have a lot of entitled fans for sure that’s kinda their thing. I grew up watching Albert so thats a big reason why I am such a big fan. Him me and Holliday are all about the same age.
Joel, yes Padres as my #1 and then I tend to pay attention to interesting teams like currently O’s, M’s.
As for Bog – the contract isn’t bad though. Pony’s made by others are valid.
1. He was as at the time of signing a highly productive bat – much more so than Kim at time for that argument that they should have just extended Kim;
2. He earned his $$’s in 2023 and had a down year. Very likely will be fair value for most of the contract;
3. He will very much NOT earn the $$’s the last 2-3 years but hey, they isn’t something unique to Bog contract / Preller / SD. That can be said for virtually all long term deals (so far) in history. Pujols for example.
And
4. Yes, it was a little odd at the time to sign a SS to such a deal for SD but realize it was about a high end bat that just happened to play SS. SD needed a bat like that in its line up.
So, valid points all around and I just don’t like to put them all in the same bucket and try to use one against the other.
On their own, I see them as valid. Hindsight with Kim’s 23 production just is what it is and can’t be factored in to criticize the deal “at the time” – it’s hindsight.
Sorry, I went a little overboard on my Bog thoughts but I’ve read so many posts here and just thought I’d summarize.
I grew up not to far from Cincy following the Big Red Machine so a little older than you. Became a Pads fan when relocating to SD with USN in 80’s and they just stick with me.
And while I’m here, I see a new commenter with a similar use of “Longtime” – not related is all I want to say. I see a lot of multi-accounts comments.
Good to see you two getting along ha ha. Longtime is the ultimate Padre fan and gentlemen, along with Gwynning, and I defend him 100% in all the brawls here. Joel has an edge which is welcome by me, but I probably shouldn’t tell him Bob Gibson is my favorite pitcher ever and my emulating him (fastballs under the chin) in little league got me into some trouble. My Cardinal fan friends are all thoroughly obnoxious, though more loyal than any fans I know.
Longtimecoming is a clown show who said that Matt Carpenter would opt out and that you can’t sign players you trades away and hides behind the mute button any time he gets called on it.
Wow – thanks Brew. Bob Gibson has always been my “go to” old school pitcher with that ridiculous ERA and attitudes
I always heard that if a batter started calling time and was scratching the batters box that Bob would start walking toward the plate – I love that story! I grew up in that era and BG was the man.
Did he mute you or something?
Yes and the fact that he would rather hide behind the mute button than admit that he was wrong about Matt Carpenter opting out just proves that he isn’t interested in doing any better.
Beats me. Do you get a notification of someone mutes you?
Wow… just throwing ridiculous amounts of money around, is not the answer.
…who knew?
Well, it worked for the rangers. It’s a matter of chemistry and luck. Better to try though. I don’t see teams like the pirates doing any of this.
Yes, the World Series Champions do not regret how they spent their fans’ money.
The other 29 teams… not so much.
Better for the fans not the owners. Pretty sure the Pirates were more profitable than the Padres were in 2023. Again the owner is now dead so i don’t fault him for what he did but it wasn’t a great business decision.
Sports team ownership for some owners is boutique, it’s not their primary source of income, so naturally some are in it more for profit than others. We shouldn’t care too much who runs the best business, we’re just fans of baseball. It is cool though that Padre attendance went from about 25th in the league 10 years ago, to 3rd in MLB last year, behind Dodgers and Yankees.
It’s your right as a fan to want the team to spend money. The problems come with the entitlement. Like how the Padres raise payroll to astronomical levels and suddenly the fans think that’s the new normal. That’s kinda lame.
2nd at 40,390 per game. The Padres played “home” games in Mexico City and that attendance is not included in totals.
They also led baseball in number of sold out games and percentage of attendance to capacity.
No, they were 3rd behind Dodgers and Yankees (Ave 40,862).
As a Cardinal fan I can tell you those announced attendance numbers are total nonsense.
Entitlement from fans is lame. I can’t stand it. Cardinal fans do it too for sure. I really can’t stand it.
@Joel P
Attendance involves tickets sold, not how many showed up.
What does tickets sold mean? If the Cardinals sell 4000 tickets 30 minutes before the game to ticket brokers is that a legit sale?
Cardinals announced attendance numbers as 35k on many nights and it was maybe half that. I guarantee you half the crowd didn’t pay for tickets and simply not show up.
Those numbers are phony. They are designed, at least in the Cardinals case, to make it look like popularity isn’t declining when it is.
Dodgers – 47,371
Padres – 40,390
Yankees – 40,358
baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/2023-misc.sh…
If you can;t stand it, go away. We won’t mind one bit
If you went to a single Padres game, you knew it was real. It was standing room only at many games.
I was citing ESPN. I guess there are differing factors involved. But I care not if 2nd or 3rd, really, does it change the point I was making?
Joel are you an attendance denier conspiracist?
Is the Padres main accountant going to agree to stay with the team only if he is given veto power over future team moves like the aging ohtani (worst contract of all time) has with the dodgers?
Odd article. This news is at least two weeks old. Now let’s see what they do next.
I bet they spend about 30 million more to get close to the luxury tax line but not over it like the article suggests. Need a starter and 2 outfielders for sure. Pen help too I imagine.
The big question is will they trade some good prospects to increase their chances in 2024.
It would send mixed messages if they traded prospects, but Preller sees some he likes, I bet he’d go for it.
The Padres are cutting payroll but they aren’t rebuilding. King only has 2 years of control left they don’t trade for him if it’s a rebuild. And lord with the Machado and Bogaerts deals they kinda have to try to win now before those deals go south which they definitely will before they end.
Remember the 2020-2021 offseason when Preller traded for Darvish, Snell and Musgrove. Then 1 year later he traded for Soto.
Preller is not afraid to trade prospects and he has proven exceptionally good at restocking the farm system with exceptional players like Salas and Merrill.
They REALLY need a LH RP to replace the 4 that have just left.
A Chapman looked like he’s still got some fire in the furnace…maybe he and Cosgrove can fill that particular spot for ‘24.
Chapman is not the character that clubhouse needs
I actually think he’d serve as better for the team than Josh Hader did. One answers the bell for the team, while the other seemed to want to save his arm for FA (all the while making I guess what he assumed was chump change @ $14 mill a year.)
If you’re referring to Chapman’s past history of abuse…he’s seemed to do alright the past couple years and ultimately has helped two teams with a WS victories. Some ppl have trouble changing for the better I get it …ala Julio Urias…but others can change….as one mistake does not always define the person. As long as Chapman keeps his nose clean (which he has)…would it really be considered that detrimental to a team to add him?
Wonder what Chapman would cost?
Probably about the cost of what the Padres just trimmed in fat with the Carpenter trade to the Braves. I’d do it.
youtu.be/_0gFteD3J3g?si=BzWyXBHNGejJ9wZB
Yes, we knew that the Padres had 30 million +/- to work with. This article makes it seem like we may be on a tighter budget than we previously thought.
But there isn’t a new source from Padre FO to verify, and the title of the article is that the padres would prefer to stay under the lux tax, meaning the have up to $52M to spend if they wish. So this is a huge nothing article, total non news. I doubt they will be maybe? They might like a deal and go over. Typically Preller doesn’t sign FAs before Jan 1, and most of his bigger offseason trades are later in Jan or Feb. we will see what happens.
This. 100%.
Hey Padres fans, I remember hearing from some of you that the Padres were definitely going to be drafting the #1 international amateur whenever that draft happens to be. How do you guys know the Padres will be picking first in that draft and that they will certainly be going after that one player? (Sorry don’t recall his name)
Generally, international signings involve unofficial agreements already made between player and team before the official signing period. Players and teams just have to wait for the official signing period when these kids are 16 and thus eligible to sign.
Brew889 hours ago
But there isn’t a new source from Padre FO to verify,
————————-
Like I said at the time, I assumed Soto was being traded because Preller said he wasn’t trading him Same thing here. If the Padres had the cash and intent of busting the cap, I have to assume they would say so., It would be bad business to do otherwise.
@Joe. Get that, and this article states they prefer to stay below lux tax, So no real new information. But if they so choose they have about $52M to build around. I won’t believe anything till it actually happens (and that was my position leading up to the Soto trade). Seidler’s transparency and good faith to fans was something to behold but is in the past.
“because Preller said he wasn’t trading him ”
That was butchered almost beyond repair. “because Preller refused to deny the trade rumors”
Funny stuff going on here. Maybe wait until the season starts? Build a farm and don’t use it? There’s some very talented guys coming up. I think it’s time to put it to work on the field instead of trade capital.
Not Preller’s M.O. He and the recently deceased Padres owner were big believers that prospects are capital. To be traded as needed to get proven MLB talent.
Before the 2021 season he traded for Darvish, Snell, and Musgrove. During the 2022 season he traded for Soto, Bell, and Hader.
I wonder if Ken Rosenthal sticks his hand in Dennis Lin and works him like a puppet or if it’s more of a remote control thing.
Who cares. They got it right.
Got your last account banned so you had to create another.?
Yes. At least I’m not hiding behind another name Pads Fan ?
I am right here Fop, and there is a reason you got banned and I am right here under the same name since 2006.
@foppert2 Pads Fans muted me so he won’t see this but his accounts “Koamalu” and “YourDaddy” were banned previously. He also comments on here as “outinleftfield,” “BaseballisLife” and “websoulsurfer.” Do with that information what you want.
Pot calling the kettle black? I am not the one that gets banned.
Yes you are. Just on Koamalu and YourDaddy but not this account.
Got what right? All the article says is that they want to get below 200M but that they will also go over if it works for them.
Who are you? And you don’t know anything about me or Padre fans. Rosenthal puppet says they want to reduce budget to 200 or under. Then says lols just kidding they will blow past if if they want to. The Athletic is a joke.
What fact. Its a rumor since no one that actually works for the Padres has said anything of the sort.
First off that’s super creepy. Second Rosenthal and the Athletic have had an axe to grind with the Padres since they burned him on the Sherzer deal. Since then it’s hit piece after hit piece. I saw a reply to this post, something about you changing your name for being banned. I can see why.
Is this Ken? Look Ken I’m sorry what I said about your bow tie. It totally doesn’t make you look like you own a windowless van.
As if Ken would bother himself with you lot.
He is busy with Arson Judge of the Giants, Sherzer of the Padres, and Ohtani of the Jays. You seem like a sad fellow. Is yelling at ransoms on the internet your way of dealing with insecurities Ken?
Hahaha I hope you find the friends that you need or get the help you need. I see now that I have been enabling you Ken. You are begging for attention and I have been giving it to you. I would recommend getting a friend or a dog or something Ken. But for now I’m blocking you for your own good.
Of course you are.
Rosenthal is Lin’s boss, so Lin does what Rosenthal tells him to do.
What’s a hybrid between a moose and mosquito; a moosquito?.
signed ~ Kennis Linsenthal
Cronenworth is a good example of how the Padres put themselves in this predicament (as was Wil Myers and Eric Hosmer). They need to be more selective in who they dole out massive contracts to.
I’m not sure Cronenworth’s contract qualifies as massive in this era.
Not massive per se but unnecessary when the Padres still had at least 3 years of control.
Yes not massive, but a mistake, but not yet a massive mistake
Cronenworth was coming off 2 straight 4+ WAR seasons when he signed the extension that starts in 2024.
Based on those 2 seasons as the arbitration platform he was projected to make $4.5 million in 2023, $9 million in 2024, and more after that through 2025. The extension was said to be a club friendly deal at the time. He signed for $4.225 million in arbitration for 2023 and will make $7.3 million in 2024, $11.3 in 2025, and $12.3 million in each of the next 5 seasons
He had a bad 2023. His only bad season.
Calling it a bad contract before it even starts is putting the cart before the horse.
Lets wait and see how he does once the contract starts.
I like Cronenworth but he’s exactly the type of player you go year-to-year in arb with. Even with no extension the Padres controlled him through his age 31 season. Could have been age 32 if Preller had waited 6 days to call him up at the start of the 2020 season, but such is life.
Yeah, preller is bad at his job. At least ownership was willing to spend though
Explain why you think Preller is bad at his job.
The players he put together in 2023 were #1 in ERA, #4 in OAA and #5 in DRS, and #6 in OPS+. They did extremely well on pitching, defense and offense. That is their part of the job.
The farm system is back in the top 10 and he added another top 100 prospect to it in the Soto trade. Unless he trades some of those prospects, the farm system is likely to be top 3 or 4 when the season starts.
His trades for Darvish, Snell, Musgrove, Hader, Soto/Bell, and Cronenworth were very good trades for the team. The trades for Nola and for Clevinger were bad. So other than his first year as a GM, he has won most of his trades. Oh, and the trade for Tatis is one of the all time best trades.
Peter Seidler chose Melvin, so that is not on Preller. Green was during the rebuild, so its a wash. Tingler turned out bad, but was good enough to get the team to the playoffs in 2020. He seemed to wilt under the expectations of a WS in 2021 and it showed.
In the 2015-2016 offseason Padres majority partner at the time Ron Fowler, told fans that the team was going to rebuild with the goal of contending in 2020-2021 and beyond. We knew the team was going to suck for 3 or 4 years. They didn’t lie to us. The team made the playoffs in 2020 with the #4 seed in the NL, meaning they would have made it in any season there was a WC.
So please, tell me why you think he is bad at his job.
Uhhhh…point of his job is to win. None of that garbage you just listed matters. This dude can’t even make the playoffs. He is far and away one of the worst execs in the game. He has spent nearly a billion dollars in losing seasons. That is unheard of…ever. He is historically bad. You’re either related to Preller or you are Preller because defending him is borderline insane.
@Chemo. I’m certainly not a fan of Preller, I think he lacks the important qualities of strategic planning. But you’re not correct, the Pads have made the playoffs 2 of the last 4 seasons. Winning a WS isn’t easy and also the Mets, Yanks, Cards didn’t make the playoffs this past season. The Giants spiraled. Seems like Preller gets trashed more than GMs of other big payroll teams.
Not to mention he’s sleazy. He has been caught on 2 occasions I believe doing underhanded things. Pomeranz to Boston is the main one I recall.
Preller took the fall for the guy that got fired for that BS, Padres team president Mike Dee. Then after Dee was fired and Preller returned from his month long suspension, Preller was given all of Dee’s baseball operations duties and title of President of Baseball Operations.
@Brew88 but im not talking winning as in titles. Im talking just winning records during regular seasons. The guy hasn’t even been able to do that despite the resources. And you’re only looking at the last 4 years. You should look at his entire time there. He has had multiple attempts at burning resources beyond the last four years and it’s mostly been in seasons where they have had losing records.
without myers and hosmer preller never signs machado…
The narrative that will just never go away.
Myers and Hosmer not being there would be two reasons for Manny to not sign with the Padres.
They gave him 300 million reasons TO sign with them.
Of course, if Myers and Hosmer had never signed with the Padres, Manny wouldn’t know they never signed with the Padres and therefore wouldn’t have known he had two reasons to not sign with the Padres. It’s an unfalsifiable narrative.
Absolutely no evidence of that being the case. In fact, there is evidence of that not being the case as no Myers or Hosmer and the Padres have more money left over to pay Manny with. Even in a world where Manny wants $350m to sign with the Padres if they don’t have Myers or Hosmer instead of just $300m, Preller still would have been better off not signing those 2 dudes and then just paying Manny what he wanted.
Bring back Pete Seidler NOW.
Yep…..just bring him back…….
Insert creepy Disney CGI here.
Dr. Frankenstein, please pick up the red courtesy ‘phone. Dr. Frankenstein…
Mr Miyagi says wax on wax off. He also says team who spends the most don’t always win it all.
That would be the Dodgers who since 2012 have outspent the 2nd highest spending team by more than $400 million and the Padres by $1.1 billion.
Well, when you don’t have a single home grown talent on your roster, this sort of happens. I guess you could count Tatis but the point still stands.
You can’t try to grab everyone that is being signed or traded and have it last.
X signing was dumb. Reupping Machado was also dumb. There is a long list of dumb honestly.
They have front row seats to all the amateur talent in SoCal. They should be getting 1st dibs on all the home grown talent there is!
Homegrowns Campusano, Wilson, Batten, Knehr all on roster
Also, Cosgrove and Rosario but sad to say that only Campusano is a projected starter if he can stay healthy.
If you’re not including pitchers at all, then Campy is the only position starter who is homegrown, But I was responding to commenter who said they didn’t have a single homegrown on the roster. They have 6 (thanks for Cosgrove and Rosario), and Marsee, Merrill, Iriarte and Snelling have a good chance of being rostered this year bringing the number up to 10. Which would be a nice improvement over recent years.
Yes, I was referring to home grown position players and rotation pitchers. Definitely an improvement! Looking forward to seeing more! I might check out a few of them in AA since I live in the San Antonio area.
Tatis never played a game in another system, so in that regard he is home grown.
To add to your point…If he even played just a couple weeks in the White Sox rookie league…there’s a good chance they might’ve not made him available to another team because of all the loud tools he would’ve shown.
Homegrowns Campusano, Wilson, Batten, Knehr all on roster
=========================
That could be part of the issue. That’s maybe about 6% of the ABs and IPs. There is something to be said about the camaraderie created when players have played together in the minors.
I meant starters. Should have said it better.
Not a single home grown player started for them in their playoff run year. That isn’t sustainable and now it has caught up with them.
Soto was repo’ed like the guy who buys a giant Mercedes and can’t afford it a few months later.
How many did the Dodgers have last season? 2. Outman and Smith.
How many did the Rangers have?
Soto was traded for 4 MLB players and a top 100 prospect after he turned down a huge extension offer. Far from a repo.
But hey, keep on trying to be a troll.
The X signing was a hedge against Juan Soto refusing to sign an extension, which turned out to be prescient. X produced 4.4 WAR in a down year. It’s way too soon to give up on that contract.
Manny was coming off a world-beater year and it made all the sense in the world to prevent him from testing free agency. He still played hurt until he could not play anymore. It’s way too soon to give up on that contract.
The Cronenworth extension was premature. That one I have to give the critics on. I think Preller and Seidler’s desire to keep players in San Diego happy can get the best of them at times. Preller famously has never taken a single player to arbitration.
What makes the Cronenworth extension seem really stupid is that they extended him then added and retained players to force him down the defensive spectrum. So it was early, but then they also made him superfolous.
I don’t get the X hate from so many, especially some Padre fans I bump into around town. Maybe a case of elevated expectations, or maybe he takes the heat on the team’s underperformance. But 4.4 WAR for a SS playing injured about 65% of the season can also be viewed as over-achieving for the AAV cost.. He’s the Pad’s best contact hitter by far, and they need him..
The Manny extension is the worst contract they gave out in the last 18 months.
Padres coming into 2024 with a $200M budget and at the tax threshold of $237M is an amazing testament to the man, Peter Seidler. Multiple superstar players combined with up and coming talent is the recipe to win, not paying a bunch of middling free agents 7 figure salaries.
Avila and Waldron showed something last year and have absolutely earned a spot on this team over overpaid guys like Lugo, Martinez, and Wacha. Young guys like Marsee, Azocar, and Merrill can outperform Carpenter, Cruz, and Grisham.
With $30+M to add, hopefully we find a couple hungry guys ready to compete with our core.
Hey everyone, the Padres owner died recently and they are experiencing bad times economically! They have been big spenders in recent years while signing top talent! Just couldn’t get them to mesh as a team to win it all! So I say give them a break! Most all Professional Sports Franchises go through some bad times, so if you’re a Padres fan, have all the hope that they can get it turned around soon!
Also, the collapses of TV/Radio Networks has a lot of teams in limbo concerning lost revenues from these entities! MLB-TV has been picking up the slack to ensure games are still being broadcast, so chill out people and be thankful we all have teams to root for! Thanks
How many passes is AJ Preller going to get? Now they are in this hole that he created due to his lack of foresight.
This has to be his lost shot I would think
Last shot
Gotta be the last.
Peter Seidler showed an incredible loyalty that called to question their relationship on local forums…
The new controllers will be about the bottom line, not winning. Think of it as an equity partners takeover.
Preller has nude photos of somebody. He just has to. I’m shocked someone this bad could still have a job.
Knowing what we know now, I’d be really curious how much of this is Preller’s fault and how much was ownership. I’m not trying to say Preller is a great GM or that none of it is his fault, I’m just genuinely curious how much he was pushed to make some of the moves that he made,
1984 – this. It’s pretty clear Seidler knew he didn’t have long left and Preller executed an all in strategy. The padres had the talent last year, it just didn’t come together.
Normally I might buy this logic, but the guy has been doing this all or nothing thing since I was in diapers. Not a recent thing since he’s been there.
Look at the fans here commenting. Yankees fans. Red Sox fans. Braves fans. Rangers fans.
You would think it’s an 8 team league.
Baseball isn’t in good shape long term.
Bc some fans of other teams aren’t commenting in this cesspool? For new members, it would take half a day to mute people to make the comment sections readable. I don’t blame them for staying away. Some would argue that baseball hasn’t been in good shape since Nolan Ryan signed the first $1MM contract in 1980.
I don’t think these fans exist is my point. Good gosh where were all the Padres fans 5 years ago? It’s just front runners here.
Joel, you’re getting a little weird or maybe I’m not understanding. Padre fan base is energized, 3rd highest attendance in MLB, is that such a bad thing? Tatis, Seidler, Chargers leaving town, have made it fun. Call it front running, whatever, but expect Padre fans to be present in a thread about the Padres, especially offseason with a recent history of active trading. I’ve been viewing Mlbtr for a very long time with 3 teams I follow closest, maybe longer than you’ve followed the Cards. There are infinitely more Padre articles now than there used to be.
What do you mean energized? Like you didn’t care about baseball but now that the team is spending tons of money you do? That’s weird.
Its not just Padres fans….m
Joel, You weren’t here 5 years ago. How would you know?
I have been on this board since 2006 and a season ticket holder for the Padres since the mid 1980s. Years before you were born.
I hate to be that guy, but there is a realistic chance that Musgrove doesn’t bounceback from the capsular surgery; that Yu Darvish is beyond his ‘sell-by date’ at his advanced age; that Machado doesn’t bounceback into form from his various surgeries & ailments; that Boegarts is on the declining side of his career with last season being the highpoint as a Padre. But HEY ! That still leaves you guys with phenom Nando Tatis, who is a stud (as long as he doesn’t run face first into the centerfield wall at 22mph full sprint.)
@Ignorant. Plausible, let’s hope not!
Musgrove didn’t have a tear in the shoulder capsule or surgery and Preller said that he could have taken the mound had the Padres made the playoffs.
Darvish might be done, but I doubt it. He was injured in 2021 and pushed through it. He put up a 3.10 ERA in 194 innings at age 35 after everyone said he was done. Last season he was ready to take the mound if the Padres made the playoffs, but was shut down instead. He may not put up a 3.10 ERA in 2024, but all the Padres really need from him is a 4.00 or lower ERA and 160-180 IP.
Machado had a 115 OPS= and hit 30 HR. The issue he had kept him from throwing and extending on pitches on the outside half. He may not play 3B to start the season because of throwing, but he will be fine.
Bogaerts had a 4.4 WAR season and hit .321/.364/.493/.857 in the 2nd half after having a cortisone shot in his wrist in June. No problem at all there. Projections have him at 5+ WAR and .290/.360/.455/.814 with the bat. Both in line with his career averages.
The last time Lin said this was in the 2020-2021 offseason. The Padres went out and traded for Darvish, Caratini, Musgrove, and Snell, He also signed Kim and Melancon that offseason.
So take anything he says with a huge grain of salt.
The Padres ownership and FO have said nothing about their plans and it’s not like saying something would affect revenue at this point. Season tickets are sold out. Single game tickets for all premium games sold out during the Holiday Promotion from Nov 20h to Dec 4th. Their local TV money is locked in for next season with the exception of the MLB.tv packages they are allowed to sell locally. As Boras said at the Winter Meetings, the Padres have no financial constraints.
Is that the same Boras that said he had spoken to the Padres and Soto was going to be in their 2024 line up ?
websoulsurfer is Pads Fans!
Yet 28 of the top 40 free agents ranked by FG remains unsigned. The offseason is still in its early stages. Once YY and Snell are off the board, I’d expect the Padres to be involved.
it’s time for preller to stop trading away the farm, let’s bank on great scouting and coaches through the entire org!
It’s a little too late for this.
So you would not want him to get players like Musgrove, Darvish, Snell, Hader, and Soto in trade?
You would rather take a chance that prospects will turn into top MLB players instead? Even though the odds are that less than 20% of top 100 prospects ever become a MLB average player?
I would rather win.
They did that in 2022 after making those trades. Did you miss the NLCS?
That’s not winning. Even if it was…that’s out of how many seasons and billions of dollars?
Oh, the mighty have fallen.
Bogearts deal was pure stupidity which should cost Preller his job. He will be an albatross of a contract when skills decline in 2 years. Money that could have gone to Soto.
It’s been reported through local media that Siedler was the one that pushed the contract for Bogaerts and the Machado extension.
4.4 WAR is somehow bad? Putting up a season that had Bogaerts ranking 6th best among SS should cost Preller his job? Or was it paying him just $25.45 million AAV that should cost Preller his job?
They could have saved that money for Soto and still had him leave in free agency, because there is simply no way Boras was ever having Soto sign a contract extension without testing free agency. And it’s looking like $600 million might be the price tag for Soto in free agency.
Now if you want to argue they should never have traded for 2 1/3 seasons of Soto knowing there was little to no shot of keeping him around longer, that’s a valid argument. But that’s what “going for it” means. It just didn’t pan out.
I guess you missed the part about the dying owner who knew he didn’t have long left.
The entire article is a repeat of the news over the past few weeks. But if it had to be written ( since there’s not enough other baseball news to report) it could have been just this:
“padres prefer to stay under the luxury tax threshold”.
Everything else in the article is fluff on fluff, and none of it is new, news, or newsworthy.
Well they sure went for it. Not a lot of teams on there financial level do what they did. Good for them. They’ll always have that.
That being said, they are doing the right thing by the franchise by looking at the numbers moving forward. So not to go bankrupt.
Poverdesssss
Trade one year of Kim for a one year of a quality starter or many years of a back-end starter. Sign a second back end starter. Move Crony back to 2B. Sucks to trade Kim right before game in Korea, but it is the best card to play, since no one is taking contract of Bogey, Crony or Machado and foolish to sell low on Tatis, Mushgrove and Darvish. Sell Kim while at high.
Yep. Sucks, but it’s the best move we have on this chessboard.
I’d argue Kim has enough value to bring back good mlb-ready outfield prospects. In terms of WAR he was worth more than Soto last year, at a fraction of the price.
Machado will not be able to play 3B to start the season, so makes no sense to trade Kim.
Bogaerts 3B, Merrill SS, Cronenworth 2B, New Guy 1B. Rhys Hoskins is available and will be looking for a “prove it” contract.
When Machado comes back, you can so Machado 3B, Bogaerts SS, Cronenworth 2B, “Hoskins” or whomever 1B, and Merrill either gets sent down or gets the utility role. Only downside is whether or not they think making Merrill a starter then un-making him one will hinder his development.
Merrill is 20 and as mature as his game is I’m not sure he’s ready to be their opening day SS. Trading Kim only makes sense if the team plans to fold on 2024 to peak in 2025-2026, it’s not in Preller’s DNA to do that, combined with fact he. Ay not keep his job if Pads don’t get to playoffs in 2024.
Would love to see what Batten can do with more at-bats as well. No way Kim resigns here with Boras as his agent anyways. Also, as you pointed out, a decent first baseman is easier to get than a decent OF, and Kim can potentially help us land some good OF prospects.
Boras isn’t Kim’s agent.
I’m a huge Kim fan but it’s probalby the right move. But wished they signed him instead of crone or xander
Agreed.
Why not tear as much of it down as you can? This group has underwhelmed. Reset the tax, sell off as much of the bad investments you can and try again. Not a padres fan, but support it. Wouldn’t mind seeing Kim playing ss on my team…
They were in the NLCS last year. People have the memory of a goldfish.
EN
“They were in the NLCS last year. People have the memory of a goldfish.”
The thing about humans is that it is easier for us to perceive changes than for us to look at something in a vacuum.
Padres are getting worse = they suck
Padres (a few years ago) add Kemp et al and everyone thinks they are the best team in baseball.
This is still a solid team, if they fill in a few pieces and get some better health and luck, they could definitely make the playoffs.
Then, who knows what happens
I think kemp was like a decade ago at this point.
Joke of a franchise, back to Padresing. 10 years of a failed GM, failure after failure.
And I “prefer” to keep my income under $10,000,000 this year.
They did this backwards. I’ve sat in these meetings. You either have a competent GM or you can get what you want.
Should have wedged every bad contract in with Soto and asked for young prospects in return. Would have gotten rid of your financial hardship and still have that lefty reliever. Soto Cronenworth Carpenter Grisham for Perriera Thorpe Brito Higgy Schmidt would have been fine. And you would move on. Instead you burped up that lefty pitcher to Atlanta and you are still struggling with Cronenworth.
If Anaheim was smart,they would do the same with Trout. That club will not be better than Tex Houston Seattle for 5 years. And forget the wild cards. Trout Rendon and Odell out and as much as you can get coming back.
These clubs will never learn.
Soto Cronenworth Carpenter Grisham for
=============================
That would’ve gotten you nothing.
Soto cost $33M, Cro is at least $25M underwater, Carp’ s underwater by $3-4M. The NYY weren’t going to pay $60M for one year of Soto and give up prospects.
We will be fine this year under “The Big 3 Arms.” (Joey Musgrove/Yu Darvish/Mikey King).
I think it would be easier for baseball if the Seidlers just sold the team to the Music City Baseball, LLC. Nobody wants a professional team in that city (3 basketball teams and a football team to boot left the city in less than 50 years) and it would be easier for the dodgers, angels, diamondbacks, giants, and athletics to get more fans. Right now is the best time to let someone with real experience lead the team rather than ownership that should take care of family first. I’m sorry for their loss, but it isn’t the time for them to think of superfluous dealings. The Tennessee market is larger than 1/2 the san diego market so it is a win for baseball and now is the right time. Manfred should force the sale now and let major league baseball come to Nashville.
Your logic is impeccable
Weren’t the Padres second in MLB in attendance? That’s generally a good idea of fan interest.
it would never happen.
The Padres are a very successful franchise.
Lots of billionaires in California if they ever want to sell the team to local based ownership.
Padres = Last place
Kcd
“Padres = Last place”
Wanna bet?
yes
Nah, the Rockies are still trashier.
It’s crazy just how much “fans” are overreacting to the Padres need to trim payroll. They still have a solid team and a really imposing middle of the line up. The top part of the line up of:
Kim
Tatis
Machado
Bogaerts
Is as good as any in the league (as much as I want my pipe dream trade for Tatis to happen) and Camp looked really good last year as well. It’s not like all is lost in San Diego
All is not lost but I think most people are worried about expecting improvement (actually making the playoffs) from a team losing 3 top tier all star players.
Ha-Seong Kim to the Red Sox please.
So. Many. Typos. They need a couple seventh graders on payroll as editors.
No problem. Just defer the payments until later and the league will let you pretend that they’re less.
Imagine Machado or Tatis taking less now to make the team better. Pretty sure Machado was already on a ~$300M contract before wanting a new one and the Padres were dumb enough to do it. These guys are more concerned about their bat flips.
Imagine the Dodgers paying Ohtani what he was worth for 10 years instead of trying to dodge the tax like the Padres did with Machado?
Unfortunately the league only favors that for teams like the Tax Dodgers:)
Machado to the Mets for Baty, Marte and a prospect with a lot of help with their $$ situation lol, this will give the power bat in front or behind Alonso.
Sign Montgomery and if the Mets lose out on Yamamoto, than make a trade with Cleveland for Bieber and Clase: McNeil, Vientos, Ramirez and Jackson , helps the Mets in starting and bullpen. Mets can put Acuna at 2b and Jett Williams in CF moving Nimmo to LF and Gilbert/Stewart in RF
Is someone is willing to take on that whole machado contract they should jump at it (but highly unlikely), Xander 3B, Kim SS Crone 2B problems solved.
Manny has a full NTC and has said he would prefer to spend the rest of his career in San Diego.
Is it actually true that the reason they spent wildly was because the GM knew he didn’t have much time left with his cancer diagnosis?
We only know that eventually all owners die
Brew – Not the Braves owner.
True!
Is it actually true
=========================
Unless he was in a coma t the trade deadline, then it doesn’t make much sense. I already found fault with them not going all-in at the trade deadline. If they know he was terminal, but still cognisant, then there was no reason not to trade for more help.
Very likely. Peter didn’t care about signing these 10+ year contracts because he probably knew he wouldn’t be around to see the end of it as morbid as that is. It is pretty well known that Peter was very involved with the manny contract. I think after signing Xander Preller was planning on Manny leaving but Peter stepped in and caused this confusing logjam.
Quite the opposite. He signed the 10 year contracts because he wanted to build longterm and pass it off to his family.
What logjam?
Snakes spent $119M and played in the last game of the season. Payroll isn’t the problem with the Padres. We all know who the problem is.
Yes we do and he is gone. Melvin will be the problem for the Giants next season.
Might as well just trade Musgrove while they are at it. Padres should be pretty bad in 2024 with or without him. Probably get some nice prospects back.
Maybe these suddenly loud mouthed SD fans will finally pipe down for awhile. Back to scraping fecal matter off the bottom of the NL West. Whiny Machado back on a basement team where he belongs! Dude had his shot to make a good impression in LA. Nah bro, lol.
They’d clean house but nobody will clean up they’re bad decisions.
Lol, a couple of weeks ago it was criminal to say Padres needed to reduce payroll (according to a few adament Padres fanatics).
I guess San Diego Tribune and the Athetic have a better read of whats going on with the team, than they do.
That was before the owner died.
Your timeline doesnt line up:
1) Articles were written in Sept/Oct by Athletic/SD Tribune about Pads money woes
2) Owner died in November
3) Pads fans get belligerent in December posts
Weird flex bro. Do you have any evidence to support your “belligerent” assessment.
“Money woes” was unrelated and had to do with diamond collapsing. You’re conflating different topics.
What is the link to the Padres GO FUND ME Account ??
tickets-center.com/search/petco-park-tickets
mlb.com/padres/tickets/season-tickets/waitlist
The Padres had a holiday promotion and made single game tickets available from Nov. 20 to Dec 4th and sold out all premium and weekend games for the year. When the promotion ended there were no single game tickets available until the Reds come to town in late-April. There might still be a handful for the Tuesday and Wednesday games against the Rockies 2 weeks later. Pretty sure there were some available for the mid-week A’s series in mid-June, but after that the next games with tickets available is in mid-August when the Pirates come to town mid-week.
I think you get the point. About 90% of all tickets for 2024 are sold out and its December. No Go Fund Me needed.
If that’s their preference, then that’s what will happen.
Seriously, the balancing act here is keeping the core of a team so attendance and revenue remains high while bringing the payroll back in line. It can be done.
All this article says is the padres may spend under the tax or they may not.
Literally nothing new here.
Honestly, don’t know how this will turn out. I cant claim.to have any information as to a plan going forth. Any ideas are are just speculation and conjecture. I do sincerely apologize for the overreaction. I support the team and want the best for the organization. I can’t say enough how I hope to one day witness a WS parade for the city of San Diego.Go Padres!
As I suspected, Padres may cut payroll in ’24.
The Padres can still be very competitive for the playoffs and World Series with a lower payroll..
JUST SPEND SMARTER!
The Diamondbacks made the World Series with a 143M payroll!
Aggressively develop and promote the valuable talent currently in the system.
SS Jackson Merrill should be playing SS or LF in ’24
He is raking it in AA.
Many major leaguers just skip AAA.
LHSP Robbie Snelling looks like a lock for the Padres rotation.
Try AA CF Jacob Marsee in CF (nothing to lose, might be a “break out player”).
Kim could be traded for OF and pitching help (young cost controlled players).
If they Padres should that they are very hungry and want to contend for the Division and the playoffs, then, spending for trades and mid level free agents could increase in ’24.
The Padres will be better off in the short and long term by balancing great young talent with their star veterans and keeping that pipeline to the majors and promotions going every year.
Phenom, young catcher Ethan Salas could be ready for the majors by
The All Star break and is only 17-18 years old. He will be 18 years old in June
and is playing like a major leaguer already in AA and most of his skills are rated very high “60” or above.
Promote Salas after the All Star Break, move Campusano to 1B or OF for his big bat.
And, many of the Padres problems will work themselves out!.
Do it right and the Padres could be the surprise contending team of ’24!
Harrison Bader could be a short term, inexpensive free agent option for CF unless the Padres move Tatis Jr there or SS phenom Jackson Merrill.
Snelling, Marese and Salas barely had a cup of coffee AA, banking on them to be major contributors this year would be worst case scenario. Each of those guys probably needs at least another year in the minors.
The 2026 San Diego Padres starting lineup:
Jake Cronenworth 1B
Xander Bogarts SS
Fernando Tatis RF
Manny Machado 3B
Joe Schmo CF
John Doe 2B
Who Cares DH
Beats Me C
League Min LF
Padres Current Lineup Subject to Major Revisions
1) H Bader CF (or trade of Kim for new guy)
2) Xander SS/2B/LF
3) Machado 3B
4) Tatis Jr RF/CF
5) Campusano C/1B
6) Crone’wth 1B/DH/2B
7) Rosario 2B (Trade or FA)
8) Jacob Marsee (CF) (or trade/ FA)
9)Jackson Merrill SS/LF
If the pitching plays like they can, then the Padres should interesting.
Expect some holes to be filled between now and the end of Spring Training ’24.
The Padres greatly underperformed in 2023. Their run differential alone had them at 92 wins. Losses in one-run games and extra innings were statistically fluky. Run the same team back out there in 2024 and they win 90-95 games. Main issue is they won’t be running the same team out there, losing key pieces like Soto and Snell. Nevertheless, you don’t have to squint too hard to see a competitive team, especially is King is as good as he looked as a starter, some bounce back seasons from players like Croneworrh, etc. I’ll wait until they finish making all their moves, but I see a team that will be in the chase for a WC.
Well if Snell wasn’t out there throwing 5 innings a game, maybe there would’ve been a little less stress on that bullpen. As Cy Young as he was, getting pulled early doesn’t help the team.
Harrison Bader is not a Padre unless I missed the signing. Machado will be DH to start the season, so Kim will play 3B. Bogaerts will be the SS. 7-8-9 are obviously wrong. Azocar will play CF and Marcano in LF if they don’t pick up anyone else .
funny thing is i had the pads winning the past 3 WS. They had the teams to do it. Cant blame owners when they put the people on the field that were more than capable of winning. Injuries happen but personally i think they had to many egos in the club house. Just bc you are great players doesnt mean you can play together. Roster up and down, i would put against anyone. It didnt work so time to move on and try something else.
Over 400 posts regarding a rehash of information that had already been reported. The article in the AThletic is peppered with maybes and mights and prefers.
No one really knows what the Padres are going to do in terms of payroll and their interim control person Kutsenda is not talking. We do know some basic things. The owner died. They have over $100 million in salary hey have allowed to walk or that has been traded away this offseason. They took out a loan that was not for payroll. The Padres are a revenue sharing payor so in top half of revenue in the league and that amount is between $430 and $450 million. They made more TV revenue in 2023 than they would have from DSG. They have 8 spots open in their 40 man roster and few players on the farm ready to fill those spots. Those are the things I can verify. Everything else is opinion and hearsay with no legitimate source.
I miss anything Padres fans? Brew? Longtime? PadsFans? Jobu?
Wouldn’t it be funny if Red Sox reacquire Bogaerts via a trade? I know, not likely to happen, but one can think