Much of the hot stove buzz around the Padres this offseason has focused on the team’s reported desire to cut payroll, and the possibility that a Juan Soto trade could be an ideal way for the Friars to both save money and reload with some new talent. However, the Padres firmly still intend to get back to winning baseball in 2024, and Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune writes that the team has interest in trading for Brewers ace Corbin Burnes.
Nick Martinez has already left to join the Reds, and there is little expectation that either Seth Lugo or Michael Wacha will be re-signed, given the Padres’ apparent budget concerns. That leaves San Diego in severe need of starting pitching depth behind Yu Darvish and Joe Musgrove, and adding a former Cy Young Award winner like Burnes would certainly provide a huge boost. While more work would need to be done on the back end of the rotation, the Padres would suddenly have a top three comparable to any other starting trio in baseball.
Acee’s piece details some of the financial factors going into the Padres’ winter plans, and notes that “the Padres have inquired about most of the top starters” available in free agency, even if signing one of the bigger-name arms doesn’t seem likely. Acquiring pitchers on more moderate free agent deals or via the trade market seems much more realistic, though landing Burnes would naturally come at a heavy price.
Firstly, it isn’t yet clear that the Brewers are even going to move Burnes, as much as their own payroll situation might make a deal seem sensible. Burnes is projected to earn $15.1MM in 2024, which is his final year of arbitration eligibility before testing free agency. Given Milwaukee’s history of spending, it doesn’t seem likely that the Crew will fork over the pricey extension or free agent deal it would take to keep Burnes in Wisconsin, so there is some merit in moving him this winter.
In essence, it’s the same decision the Padres face with Soto, who is projected for a whopping $33MM arbitration salary and will also be a free agent come next winter. Soto is widely expected to seek a contract upwards of $500MM since he’ll be only entering his age-26 season in 2025, and re-signing in San Diego suddenly seems less likely if the Padres are going to be reining in their spending.
Just to get the obvious hypothetical out of the way, a trade of Soto for Burnes in some fashion might not be too feasible for either San Diego or Milwaukee. It obviously wouldn’t be a straight one-for-one swap, yet it’s very fun to imagine a blockbuster swap that would see the Padres get the pitching upgrade they need while the offense-needy Brewers land an elite bat. Padres president of baseball operations A.J. Preller has plenty of creative trades on his resume, and last winter’s three-team swap with the Braves and Athletics shows that Brewers president of baseball operations Matt Arnold is also no stranger to bold moves.
This all being said, the trade package San Diego reportedly wanted from the Yankees is perhaps more instructive as to what the Padres are looking to achieve with a Soto deal. If the Friars are looking for a mix of win-now talent, prospects, and salary relief (perhaps involving unloading the contract of a player like Trent Grisham), then very few teams can meet that asking price. Obviously that reported Yankees offer might represent a high starting ask from Preller and his demands might lessen as the offseason develops, yet a smaller-market team like the Brewers that particularly values prospects as the backbone of their organization isn’t going to make a big splurge for one year of control over Soto. If anything, Arnold might be looking for a similar return for Burnes — a trade package that helps set the Brewers up for years to come, not a particular win-now push for 2024.
If a direct trade between the two teams might not work, it is possible another three-team deal could be explored, and Acee suggests that a three-team trade might be the only way for the Padres to fully achieve most of their goals in dealing Soto. In regards to Milwaukee specifically, perhaps the Padres could move Soto to a third club, then funnel some of the young talent they’d receive from that mystery team towards the Brewers to then add Burnes for San Diego’s rotation. The permutations here are pretty much endless, and there’s a reason why three-team trades are relatively rare, particularly three-team trades involving some of the game’s biggest superstars.
MLBTR’s Steve Adams recently explored Burnes’ trade market, and the Padres weren’t one of the 12 teams Steve identified as the best possible fits for the right-hander. This doesn’t mean the Padres (or even one of the other clubs not cited) absolutely couldn’t emerge as something of a surprise suitor, and the team’s interest altogether indicates that Preller isn’t planning a fire sale of the roster.
CrikesAlready
Soto and Jake Cronenworth to Milwaukee with Trent Grisham (well, maybe not sending him back there)… Why not? It’s unlikely either will get big contracts from either team.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Please let it be the Yanks, after all Giancarlo worked out so well, let’s add another potential disaster
Corbin Burns the Yanks..
Travis’ Wood
Corbin Burnes with 1 year of control is comparable to trading for Stanton, an outfielder, with a mega contract?? Huh??
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Dumber things have been done
larkraxm
I also think it is funny that people think Stanton is a disaster for the Yankees. The presence of Stanton hasn’t stopped the Yankees from adding guys like Cole and paying Judge. The reason baseball fans hate/are jealous of the Yankees is that an Ellsbury or Stanton “disaster” does not slow us down even a little, whereas the Twins would be wrecked for a decade if they made a “mistake” like Ellsbury. It’s only a mistake/disaster if you can’t afford it!
0523me
But not to often said on this site.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Yup, Stanton wasn’t a disaster
okay…
larkraxm
What is the disaster exactly. The fact that he hasn’t been healthy, I’m assuming? The Yankees have a winning record for over 30 straight years. What a disaster!
Mrivers
Per Cashman, though, the Stanton move did block a Harper one. And that presently looks really really bad.
deweybelongsinthehall
Of course big market teams have an advantage but if what you said were true Lark, Harper woukd be in the Bronx and Boston might still have Betts…
larkraxm
You mean an offer to Harper? There is no guarantee that Harper would have signed with the Yankees or that he would have stayed healthy if he did. That is all speculation and ifs and buts were candies and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas. The Yankees problems have not been an unhealthy Stanton. Unless he was going to pitch last year. When Clarke Schmidt is your #2 in the rotation, it doesn’t matter if you have Harper or Stanton at DH.
rocky7
Yes, exactly which other teams can match that record of performance…….waiting……waiting……waiting……thought so.
Fever Pitch Guy
rolls – The Padres are hurting financially, they can’t afford to spend big bucks on a free agent pitcher so of course they will explore the trade market.
larkraxm
Harper wanted to join the Yankees? Betts wanted to stay in Boston? You sure know a lot about what FA (and FA to be) wanted to do. Tell us more. What do you know about what Ohtani wants to do? I think at the time the Yankees traded for Stanton, he was coming off an MVP season and when Harper was a FA he was seen as redundant because the Yankees already had a player with a similar profile. Looking back with the benefit of hindsight and saying Stanton is a disaster and the Yankees should have instead signed a player that is healthier is stupid. That is a great assessment to make six years after the fact. The Stanton contract didn’t stop them from signing Cole and Judge. I also think that the Stanton contract did not prevent the Yankees from adding Harper. If he were a starting pitcher, like Cole, they would have added him. I think Cashman’s statement as being more about roster fit for a player that has a similar profile to Stanton, than we don’t have the financial ability to sign players like Cole because Stanton costs too much.
sfes
The Red Sox 4 championships since 2000 can.
VermonsterSD
They are not hurting financially….
larkraxm
Just because the Padres borrowed $50 million to make payroll and pay other operating expenses last year does not mean that they are hurting financially! It sounds like whoever loaned them $50 million is the one hurting!
DonCarl97
What happened in the case of Bauer is a show of the state of our society nowadays, where the presumption of innocence has disappeared, before you were innocent until proven guilty, now you’re guilty until proven innocent.
Bauer also got beaten up because he’s been very outspoken against Manfred, and yet he didn’t get paid in 2022 a single penny, he should sue the Dodgers and MLB for reputational and economical damage or at least get a rough compensation.
DonCarl97
The problem with Yankees is that they have done some dumb transactions and acquisitions over the last couple of years including signing old players for big money, but the market is also inflated… and everyone knows the Yankees have a tendency to overpay…
About Harper for his quality he actually got a very team friendly contract…
He is at least worth 70 million more than he was guaranteed…
drasco036
It’s funny how relevant you think the Yankees are. You say Stanton and Ellsbury haven’t slowed the Yankees down but they haven’t won a World Series since Jeter and Arod were on the team. They are not even a perennial playoff team.
Yankee fans are acting like they are the Astros and Dodgers instead of a mismanaged mess that should have fired Cashman a long long time ago.
deweybelongsinthehall
Lark, of course the financials impact teams and Stanton in NY is no exception. Until Cohen bought the Mets, how often did the Yankees exceed the first penalty? Having so much tied up in him band others is why they spent only on Rodon last year.
deweybelongsinthehall
Rocky, consistency is for horseshoes. Fans of the Sox and Giants have recently suffered but would they trade their championships for better other years? Not me.
deweybelongsinthehall
Lark, do you really believe the nonsense you’re posting? Most Before Cohen, teams were dipping under the threshold to reset every three years. The Yankees did it in 19. Boston should have done in 22 (Bloom’s biggest failure in my view) and did it in 23.
deweybelongsinthehall
If he sues, EVERYTHING comes out…
Fever Pitch Guy
vermonster – You must have missed this story which is referenced in the above article.
“Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reports that the Padres are planning a different strategy for next season. This includes “player commitments of around $200MM,” as Acee writes that the payroll cut is “in part because they are out of compliance with MLB regulations regarding their debt service ratio.”
Fever Pitch Guy
lark – Please follow the above link to the article that proves you wrong.
“Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune reports that the Padres are planning a different strategy for next season. This includes “player commitments of around $200MM,” as Acee writes that the payroll cut is “in part because they are out of compliance with MLB regulations regarding their debt service ratio.”
Brew88
Kevin Acee LOL
Fever Pitch Guy
dras – I agree with some of what you wrote and I’m not a Yankees fan, but making the postseason 24 out of 28 seasons before this year makes them as close to perennial as it gets.
Sure they spend a ton of money nearly every year, but having a winning season every year since 1993 is still impressive.
Rally Goose
@DonCarl97 Ahem. Sue the Dodgers for what, exactly? They aren’t the ones who decided that Bauer would be suspended or for how long. They paid him every penny that his contract and the independent arbiter said they had to pay him. Now if they had tried to do something like invoke the morals clause to withhold his pay after the suspension was lifted THEN he might have a case. But they didn’t so he doesn’t.
SalaryCapMyth
@MRivers. What source do you have for that?
Cashman was quoted in the Athletic as to saying the problem was that they already had 6 outfielders
theathletic.com/4958615/2023/10/13/yankees-mailbag…
It has been popularly hypothesized that Stanton was the reason but unless you show otherwise, Cashman didn’t say that.
larkraxm
And that little contract to Judge.
larkraxm
The threshold taxes have done what they were intended to do, for the most part. Most teams, including the Yankees, would prefer not to pay the tax unless it is for certain players the organization deems worthy. Stanton was acquired as a 28-year-old reigning MVP with 12 years at $25 million AAV. It hasn’t gone as well as hoped, but $25 million is what Josh Donaldson made. It isn’t crazy AAV these days. Harper makes about the same AAV as Donaldson did. There you go Yankee fans! It isn’t that the Yankees can’t spend on contracts because of Stanton, it is who they are giving the contracts to. They gave $35 million to Aaron Hicks and Josh Donaldson instead of $25 million to Bryce Harper. Ouch!
Mrivers
Not speculation at all.
Harper told Cashman at the winter meetings that year he would move to 1st base.
He wanted to be a Yankee, well known.
Mrivers
Stanton’s health hasn’t been an issue?
Clarke Schmidt? What?
Yankees offense bottom seven in most stats last season.
Their offense and Stanton WERE the problem in 2023.
Actually follow the team.
Fever Pitch Guy
Brew – Within 4 months we will see if he’s right or not, now won’t we..
JoeBrady
Lindsey Hill should be on trial. At a minimum, she should have to pay for the police investigation just like Smollet should.
JoeBrady
Sue the Dodgers for what, exactly?
========================
Lost wages. This is fairly straightforward, but let’s put the shoe on the other foot.
Let’s say you got fired for assaulting an intern at work, only to find a tape later where she admits that she made it all up.
Should you not get your job back with all back wages, and with an apology?
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I’d give you 10 thumbs up if I could.
It is disgusting how false accusers never get the proper punishment they deserve for the lies they told, look no further than Tawana Brawley and Crystal Mangum.
Rally Goose
@JoeBrady Except you missed the part where the Dodgers aren’t the ones who decided whether or not he would be suspended or for how long and paid him every penny they were required to pay him. Not a cent more or less.
Rally Goose
Mangum is in prison but not for the false accusations.
larkraxm
“they are out of compliance with MLB regulations regarding their debt service ratio” I think we are saying the same thing. They don’t have enough money. Their debt to income aint what it ought to be. Assuming 33 million more in contracts won’t help that debt to income ratio that Kevin Acee is talking about.
Thrownoutatsecond
Padres lost 50 Million from Bally Sports stiffing them, hence the 50 million shortfall.
drasco036
That is accurate. MLB paid the Padres 80% of their deal with Balley and they still were short.
Fever Pitch Guy
Thrown – The Padres were also banking on postseason revenue, not getting it really hurt them financially.
PadsFan84
Don’t trade Jake. He’ll likely be back at second next year. He’s much more valuable there.
Brew’88
I hear Cronz is working on leveling up this swing, back to what he was doing, so he can generate better contact. The upswing for HRs days are over.
Rally Goose
Where does Kim play then?
Brew’88
Manny will be DHing in April, maybe May as he recovers from surgery. Kim will see time at 3B at SS during that time. Jake back at 2B
Brew88
At least, I think
Fire Krall
Padres = Last Place
Thrownoutatsecond
Cause the Rickies are far superior
tangerinepony
The brewers have no need for outfielders they have plenty of young guys wiemer, Frelick Michell along with Chourio what they need is a 1B and 3B along with starting pitching
Travis’ Wood
Lol why would the brewers do that?? You think they can afford to take in those 3 contracts? Delusional, hopefully this is sarcast
Simm
Yeah that’s not happening
larkraxm
The Brewers are not taking Soto and his $33 million price tag!!!
deweybelongsinthehall
I said it the other day. A three team trade with the Yankees could work. The Yankees would have to part with one or two so far they’re not considering but instead of them going to SD, the Brewers send Corbin to the Padres. Other chips would be included but the main ones go back to Milwaukee. Make it fun and add a fourth team. The Padres still want to compete in 24 and adding a top starter might be a better short term answer.
User 401527550
Unless they flipped him right away.
wissportdude1102
No chance brewers want Grisham. The of is already loaded.. Mitchell Frelick Churio Taylor and Yelich
Jeremy320
…and wiemer, perkins. Also, top prospect black #51 can play lf/rf. Milwaukee has 5 young plus defensive center-fielders.
solaris602
No, no, no, no. Brewers know all about Grisham, and they don’t want him back at any price.
TennVol
Hmm, a 3 team trade with Burnes to Padres, Soto to the Jays and prospects to Brewers?
AlBundysFanClubPresident
Provided they’re real close to mlb ready, maybe. I don’t see them accepting a package of guys who are 3-4 years away though.
They may take a step back in ’24 depending on who or how many they trade away, but everything I’m seeing says they aren’t planning a rebuild..yet.
stan lee the manly
That’s what they tell the fans to keep them buying tickets until the last possible minute.
AlBundysFanClubPresident
@stan which makes them different from some other teams how?
And many Brewer fans have been expecting a falloff for a few years now, and it hasn’t happened yet. Not to mention the annual “they’re not going to win more than 80-82 games” expert analysis from the talking heads. They’ll compete just like they have been recently, despite not having several expensive names on the roster.
solaris602
Ah, this reminds me of the return the Cubs got for Darvish. I’m pretty sure that at least two of those players still aren’t old enough to vote yet.
solaris602
Padres fans have gotten worse than STL fans. Not only do they think the organization still has more money than they could possibly spend, they think Preller can just snap his fingers (a la Fonzie), and Burnes just starts pitching for them without a trade even being necessary. Of course MIL will still foot his salary because it’s the Padres.
Fever Pitch Guy
solar – I think Padres fans need to come to grips with reality. They need to realize the huge spending of the past few years was a one-time mortgage the future to go for it now attempt by the owner to experience a championship.
It didn’t work out and now the sense of urgency to win a championship is no longer there.
Simm
And it begins. All the broke padres are going to do nothing this offseason are about to eat their words.
Preller unlike the Yankees will trade premium talent. Hence him in the last 3ish years acquiring hader, darvish, mustgrove, snell and Soto just to name a few.
The Padres farm system is back and strong again. With or without trading Soto.
Padres are in on allllll the top free agent pitchers. And all of the top pitching trade targets.
Let the best padre win.
Joe says...
And yet they finished with the same record as the Yankees.
Simm
And we will finish higher than them this year. We will go for it while you waste primes remaining years of judge and Cole.
Joe says...
Get back to me when it actually happens.
El Niño
@Joe While losing 12 out of 14 extra innings games which are a coin flip. It was a weird year for the padres.
Joe says...
Results are results. No need to make excuses. No moral victories in the pros.
920kodiak
The Madres under Preller have always been entertaining, to say the the least. You are absolutely right, though. Preller is great at acquiring premium prospects and he isn’t afraid to trade them for premium veterans.
sfes
The Padres had one of the most perplexing seasons I’ve seen in a while. Run diff. had them as a playoff team, great starting staff and a lineup with Machado, Soto, Boegarts, Tatis plus
Thrownoutatsecond
Bogearts had a terrible first four months and the back end line up was putrid. Carpenter, Cruz, Grisham, Croneworth
Pads Fans
Do you remember 2021? After a $97 million payroll in 2019 and revenue losses from not playing any games in front of crowds, Acee said the Padres were going to have a payroll around $100 million. All the writers said that the Padres were only in the playoffs because of the expansion to 16 teams and that they didn’t have money to build on that team.
Then Preller made trades for Snell, Musgrove, and Darvish/Caratini. He signed Kim and made several other smaller trades and FA signings like Melancon and suddenly the Padres payroll was $174 million to start the season and their CBT number was $216 million.
Simm
Dude acee is wrong about payroll literally every year.
The guy is so bad at his job. He is so bad nobody in San Diego is hardly even talking about the possibility of trading for burns. Nobody believes a word that guy says.
Rsox
Soto is expected to make more than twice what Burnes is expected to get. No way do the Brewers take on that much salary and the Padres sending any significant amounts of cash to Milwaukee would almost make trading Soto redundant.
A three team trade is certainly possible but i imagine any team that wants Soto would also probably want Burnes as well
Simm
Padres don’t need a third team to get burns. They have more to offer than just about anyone in the league.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
I could see something like Kim, Lesko, etc for Burnes and a piece or two.
Simm
Honestly if the padres fans didn’t love Kim so much he is prob the guy they should trade before soto.
The fans may burn the stadium if they did that though.
Deleted Userr
They really should trade Kim this offseason but there are 2 things probably holding that up:
1. The Padres open the 2024 season with a series in Seoul.
2. They are currently trying to sign his lifelong best friend.
Pads Fans
No need to include Kim and Kim might be more valuable than Burnes. His 5.8 WAR vs Burnes 3.5 WAR would indicate that is a fact.
Prospects alone would get it done.
Simm
I hear you but Kim may very well be gone after next year. Is one year of Kim more valuable than snelling?
I also don’t think the brewers would trade burns for Kim. If they trade burns they are likely resetting for a year.
Keep in mind I think there is nearly a zero percent chance they trade Kim.
leftcoaster
Good luck with that.
Joel P
Snelling
Iriarte
For
Burnes
Schmitt
Periera
Vazquez
Effross
For
Soto
The Padres get relief help in Effross. They get 3 rotation pieces and also subtract payroll which they can use to get a new outfielder. This allows them to build a contending team without increasing the payroll from where it stands today.
Simm
No Schmidt sucks. How many times do you need to hear that. Padres have rejected that crap offer with Schmidt as the primary pitching piece.
Joel P
Trade simulator says that’s 55 million in surplus value going to the Padres for 23 million in surplus value for Soto.
You are delusional. You think the Padres are going to buy up all the players they want like they did last year and that’s simply not happening. These trades allow the Padres to compete without totally selling the farm. That’s the best you can hope for right now.
El Niño
Do trade simulators account for current market rate? Supply/demand etc…
Simm
Yes and that trade sim says Grisham for Cole is fair..get real.
Joel P
Cole has a gigantic salary dude. That’s why he doesn’t have a bunch of trade value. Do you really not understand that?
Simm
You know…nothing.
Padres have traded the farm 3 times now in what 3 years. Yet here they are with the tools to do it again.
Prellers job is on the line he isn’t going all in. The padres are going to do everything possible to win a championship for Peter Seidler this year.
You just don’t know how it is right now in San Diego.
Cheapest way for the padres to do so is via trade. Free agents cost a lot. Padres say there are two types of currency cash and prospects. They have no problem spending either.
Joel P
Supply and demand? What does that mean?
Of course they factor that in. What nonsense are you talking about?
El Niño
@Joel P are you really saying you’d trade Cole for Grisham? Hahahahahahaha
iml12
There is a reason the Mets ate half of Verlander and Scherzer salary. They had zero value otherwise
Simm
Do you understand that 20 teams would trade Grisham for Cole and laugh at the Yankees all day for doing that.
Thing is a joke homie. Find an actual trade that happens before like the Betts trade. That one you put up is hot garbage and isn’t happening
Joel P
You have to pay Cole. If you want a stud pitcher and have that kind of money you could sign Snell or Yamamoto. That’s the part people don’t understand you have to have the payroll space to pay these giant contracts.
I am a Cardinal fan. Nolan Arenado barely has any trade value. Why? Because he has a giant contract it’s not because he’s a bad player.
Joel P
The Mets bid against themselves. They created a new benchmark for salary with Scherzer and then Verlander demanded they matched it. There is no evidence any other team in baseball thinks those 2 were worth 40 million a year except the Mets.
El Niño
@Joel P Would you trade Cole for Grisham? Answer the question. The answer is no, across the board, meaning your simulator is trash.
Simm
My guess is they would get more than you think for him. 30m is getting close to what 20m was. May get there after Ohtani signs.
Joel P
Teams have a budget. If you don’t have the money to pay Cole then you can’t trade for him. What does he make like 36 million a year? Most teams can’t afford that.
El Niño
@joel P answer the question. Would you trade Cole for Grisham. Given the answer is no, it tell you everything you need to know about your simulator.
Simm
Actually pretty much every team can.
Brew’88
“Padres have traded the farm 3 times now in what 3 years. Yet here they are with the tools to do it again”
*****************************************************************
Truth. And maybe Preller’s job shouldn’t be on the line if he can rebuild the farm so quickly?
Simm
They will be adding De Vries. Top international prospect in January. Has been compared to Franco hopefully without the off the field troubles.
Ma4170
Plenty of teams can trade for and afford Cole. Isn’t he at about 5/180 left on his deal? At 33, not ideal, but much better to me than some recent deals that were signed.
El Niño
The padres were in the NLCS last season.
El Niño
Last year at this time the padres had just lost in the NLCS.
Pads Fans
If he signs Leo Devries next month, it will be two years in a row he has signed the best international free agent. While he won’t be in the top 100 immediately, by this time next season he could be right where Salas is in terms of ranking.
2 Padres prospects are expected to join the top 100 unless they are traded, Iriarte and Mazur. Its also possible that Marsee vaults into the top 100 after winning the AFL MVP award with a totally dominant showing in ever aspect of the game.
Preller has proven to be one of the very best at building a farm system.
Pads Fans
There is no evidence that other teams thought those 2 were worth less than $40 million. All the writers including those on this site wrote that they would get that much money.
Pads Fans
Betts and Lindor are the two most recent examples of an elite player being traded prior to their walk year. Both teams received a much better package of players and prospects than anyone is saying the Padres should receive for Soto. Goes to show how little most fans know about what it will take to get trades done
Pads Fans
BTV also says that Grisham for Cole is a major overpay by the Padres. Same for a trade of Grisham for Judge. Things like that are why BTV is a bad joke.
Simm
Don’t sleep on Dillon Head and Homer Bush jr.
Bush in his rookie year even played for a bit in aa.
These are two athletic kids that’s prob need to add some muscle to their frames but the tools are there.
I feel like every single Preller number one pick has made the top 100.
El Niño
Supply/demand meaning if you need an impact LH bat and there’s only 2 available in the market then they are more expensive than if there were 20 available in the market. Pretty basic stuff dude.
padrepapi
The Trade Simulator on BTV is interesting.
Accordong to the site, on July 28, 2022 Juan Soto had a surplus value of 175m. At that point he had 2.33 years of control. He was already making 17m with two more years of arb and at that time you had a great idea what the arb figures would be for the next two years.
Fast forward to today, fresh off a 158 wRC season, same as his career mark and his value on that same simulator is 22.5m???
Going back to pre trade and that 175m surplus value figure and I would imagine it would be broken down as:
2022 – 35m (2 months)
2023 – 75m
2024 – 65m
If it was 175m then, how the heck is it 22.5m today? That’s saying his value is 13% of what it was while having 43% of the amount of control.
theathletic.com/3447510/2022/07/26/juan-soto-trade…
Interestingly of all the proposed trades in that article Dennis Lin suggested pretty much the exact trade that happened.
Longtimecoming
Snelling no. Maybe Lesko and 1 of the 15 -20 guys should get Burnes. Snelling replaces Burnes next year.
Simm
I can see Lesko and Zavala that’s two top 100
Prospects for burns. Though
When they don’t want an outfielder.
Guess they could always do a larger deal that involves Merrill. Who the brewers would have a real need for.
Longtimecoming
Merrill stays. Burnes should not require 2 top 100’s. Lesko and one of the guys just outside the top 100 (10-20 on top 30). Should be enough.
Would keep farm system strong and add a TOR guy. Mil gets a mid starter for 2025 and a maybe guy for 25/26 and save some money.
If and that IF, a Soto trade happens, then trade some acquired prospects with a couple of current 10-20 guys for a Luzardo type guy.
Then sign 2 Fedde types for back end. Sign Lee for OF spot.
Gives a strong rotation for 2024 and 2025 with Snelling taking Burnes spot.
Sign Rhys Hoskins for 1b.
Farm system is strong for 2025 with OF guys Zavala / Marsee.
Salas might even be a 2025 guy.
Simm
Idk dude. Pitching market is insane right now. Burns is going to have a lot of bidders. It’s now just a matter of worth but what someone will give.
Either way the padres can matchup with anyone’s bid and unlike most teams they
Will trade their prospects.
Keep in mind the padres will land the top international free agent who is a short stop in Jan.
Plus none of their prospects from last year who all have performed have made the top 100 yet. They are getting pretty deep pretty fast.
Brew’88
The Pads (especially Shildt) seem to have a strong liking for Merrill, even with the position log-jam. He already has free access to the MLB club snack bar.
I also wouldn’t trade Snelling. He looks like a sure thing. I also like Iriarte, reminds me a bit of Luis Patino, and like Patino needs to cut down on the walks. Lesko has to prove it first in the minors, no reason why he can’t, he’ll be their top prospect in 25 after Salas, Merrill and Snelling get their call ups.
Simm
Funny when I wrote down Merrill Shildt was the first thing I cringed about. They definitely seem to like each other.
Either way you have to give something you don’t want to for burns.
Funny enough most believe Lesko has higher upside. He is just behind from being injured when drafted.
Brew’88
most insane upside in Pads farm system:
Salas, Lesko, Head. They should be careful to trade any of those dudes.
But I honestly think Snelling is the most likely to make an impact soonest (sooner than Merrill), and not fail. He’s as solid a SP as they’ve had in high minors in a while in my opinion..
Longtimecoming
I’d like to add Marsee to your group.
Bud Selig Fan
Burnes isn’t getting traded unless MKE gets back a massive return of prospects or a big-armed big-league starter (Sheehan) plus.
The Brewers don’t need to trade Burnes and won’t unless blown away. They can win the central with him and take the pick & pool money and give it to their fantastic amateur draft-department — the one that’s helped give the Brewers a top 3 farm and nice young core of positionals without a high draft-pick or trade-off to restock.
Simm
If they can pry a pitching prospect like Lesko or snelling away from the padres along with some additional guys or someone work a deal for Merrill I think they would do it.
The brewers can certainly keep everyone and make another run next year but if there is a reset year. This feels like it with woody gone, burns about to be gone and adames about to be gone.
They may be able to reboot and be even better a year from now. Not even real rebuild just a year reload. They can get guys that are now or within a year from now guys. Smart thing to do.
Brew88
I’m looking forward to seeing Marsee play, he’s seemingly come out of nowhere for me
Brew88
@Bud Your point is a good one. I feel the same way about the Pads with Soto. Why trade him unless blown away?
Chris Koch
He’s also only 19 and the upside from him is exactly what the Crew would want back trading Burnes. Lesko reads 70grade changeup and spinning that ball is a Brewer pitching lab trademark. So any deal Crew make would definitely involve 1 of them back. Maybe both fwiw with some work around. San Diego vs LA. Which team wants Burnes not pitching for the other.
Chris Koch
Stop speaking when saying Burnes doesn’t deserve 2 top 100s. There’s a thing called QO out there. That’s bringing back a nice draft selection or money to sign a nicer draft selection of a top 10 who fell to 24 and is a top 100 right there. Also 2 top 60-100s are far less valuable than a top 10 and another top 50-100. But that return would be 2 top 100 60-100.
Chris Koch
Not in IP. You think Snelling is tossing 190 or more IP in 2025? He’ll be lucky to throw 160.
Pads Fans
If Padres trade for Burnes, trade Soto for the group they are asking for from the Yankees or a similar group from another team, then flip half or more for Luzardo then their starting 4 would be Musgrove, Burnes, Darvish, Luzardo. Add Yariel Rodriguez and Fedde to that rotation for a total of $10-12 million and they are both incredible 1 through 4 and deep with Avila and Waldron providing minor league depth.
I would not consider trading Soto until Lee was in house and they had exhausted all possible chance of extending him. In other words go to ST with him on the roster.
Let someone else sign the bad defensive Hoskins to the $18-20 million pillow contract he is asking for . Just sign Cooper for $3-4 million AAV as the backup 1B/platoon DH.
Pads Fans
Shildt said after spending time in San Antonio mid season that Merrill had a shot at breaking the Padres roster before the end of the season. That was before he was manager.
Pads Fans
How many innings did Snell have? Lugo? Wacha? Does throwing 160 innings make Snelling not a valuable pitcher?
If a 20 year old Snelling makes the Padres rotation and throws 160 innings that will mean he was pitching really well. They are not letting a kid like him come up and get blown away. If he struggles, he will go back down. The only way he stays to get that many IP will be pitching really well.
Snelling is as close to an untouchable as the Padres have, but as we have seen, if the return is big enough, Preller will trade anyone. He traded 2 top 10 prospects and 4 more for Soto and Bell.
A rental of Burnes is not a big enough return to net Snelling in my mind. Maybe someone at the backend of the top 100 like Zavala plus a solid prospect that is just outside the top 100 like Mazur.
Chris Koch
It’s still about the limitations it puts on somebody. Snelling isn’t sniffing 145IP this season when it’s done. 160+ is pushing thresholds for 2025 when it’s done. 2026 is the 1st season Snelling if healthy 2 years would be capable of a full seasons workload. The whole reason guys aren’t pitching 200+ these days is due to how slow they grow their limits. Lesko is a massive risk to ever reach his true potential with his 1st 6yrs team control. 1 more TJ and forget about it hes just a RP/swingman moving forward. Let’s add he requires being on a 40man roster 2 offseasons from now. 33 professional IP becomes 70-90 this year. 100-110 in 2. 135-150 in 3. 160 in 4(and that’s aggressive) If staying as a SP. 1 single injury zaps that 1+ years back while being rule 5 protected. Padres could get out of that headache including him to Milw.
padrepapi
Yeah trading Lesko could feel a lot like moving Max Fried before too long. I love Corbin Burnes but I wouldn’t be jumping on including Lesko in a package too quickly.
I think he’ll re-pass Snelling as the better pitching prospect in ’24. Hoping Preller can resist the urge and keep those two along with Merrill and Salas. Merrill looks like the perfect addition to the lineup being a lefthanded bat with excellent hitting & contact skills. I wouldn’t be surprised if he were to end up in LF in 2024 with a move back to the infield in the cards for 2025 depending on what happens with Ha-Seong Kim. When Salas is ready having Campusano to be the #2 and DH the other days will be an ideal setup.
If the Padres were to end up sending Soto to NYY, it seems like the Brewers would be interested in Oswaldo Peraza as a big part of a Corbin Burnes package to replace Willy Adames at SS. It would take more but that could be a good start to facilitate that addition and help keep those others mentioned previously out of the deal.
gbp4ever
Brewers are not world series cotenders. Thus you trade Burnes for players. It’s going to be more then you will get for a comp pick at end of round 1.. The homer Brewers fans hav to stop pretending this team can cotend for a WS it’ can’t It’s a team that can make the playoffs then do nothing. Brewers should have traded Burnes before the 2023 season when his value was the highest and would have gotten a ton. But now with one year left trade him get what you can. Start the rebuild.
Brew’88
@papi. Do you happen to know if Merrill has ever played in the OF? It was my understanding that he’s strictly a mid IFer
Longtimecoming
Brew I think I recall he got some reps last year at end of season but I might he wrong.
Brew’88
well, so far the Pads have a great record on SS-to-OF conversion. But I’m hoping the 24 OF is Soto, Lee, Tatis
padrepapi
yeah Merrill played 5 full games in LF for San Antonio this year.
Lee would be a sweet signing to man CF. To keep Soto I’d be fine with a contact oriented Azocar and Marsee handling it on the cheap.
With one of those guys in CF and gulp Matt Carpenter salary at DH… the starting 9 keeping Soto is 109m for 2024. That’s not crazy…
C Campusano .75
1b Cronenworth 7.2m
2b Ha-seong Kim 8m
3b Manny Machado 17m
SS Xander Boegarts 25.4m
LF Juan Soto – 32m
CF Azocar/Marsee .75m
RF Fernando Tatis Jr. 11.7m
DH Matt Carpenter – 5.5m
That’s a 58.5m infield and a 44.5m outfield… I get the feeling non Padre fans would be surprised the cost of their starting 9 wasn’t more. And others making the minimum (Rosario, Batten to start the year) should be getting Carpenters AB’s but just including his salary since it’s on the books.
Brew’88
Lesko for Burnes would be as much or more than the Yanks seem to be offereing for Soto.
Simm
Well we actually want to get burns unlike the Yankees not getting Soto.
Brew’88
@ Simm. I know. That’s where my cynicism kicks in.
pdxbrewcrew
You are completely delusional if you think Lesko alone will get Burnes. Two of three between Selling, Lesko and Iriarte AND Martorella is closer to what it would take.
Simm
Yeah we know Lesko is t getting burns. It’s will take 1-3 more guys depending on their value.
Brew’88
@crew. Not delusional, just making the cynical comparison to what’s being discussed as trade value Soto v. Burnes. Soto has more value than Burnes as 1 year rentals go, but both have much more value than the Yanks dangled the Pads for Soto. I doubt 1 year of Burnes would command as much as two of Snelling and Lesko and Iriarte, but it would be a lot.
Longtimecoming
I think Lesko and then add another from the 12-20 group which from Padres system is still a guy likely just out of the top 100.
pdxbrewcrew
What people speculate on what the Yankees will give up for Soto has no bearing on what the Brewers will demand for Burnes. A major league ready starting pitcher, a major league ready corner infielder (which side depends on where they see Tyler Black playing) and more is what it will take.
Pads Fans
Uh no. Burnes had a 3.5 WAR, a 127 ERA+, and is a 1 year rental. We are not talking about a top 10 starting pitcher.
The Rays didn’t get that for 3 years of Blake Snell. They got one plus some mid-level guys.
Chris Koch
Looks to me Mejia was top 30 and Patina top 80 preseason like we are in back 2019. The other 2 recent 2nd and 3rd rd picks so high potential(you know 6th rd Snelling) There’s still the value needed to be added from a 99pct certainty of a Qualifying Offer being given and late 20s-early 30s draft pick in 2025.
Longtimecoming
Patino was 27 on the 2020 list. Mejia 26 on the 2019 list.
Longtimecoming
Agree that Mejia had become a “former top prospect” and had totally lost value. LP was probably at a point where he had leveled out – not showing his prospect status but maybe not quite enough to show a bust yet. Yet he proceeded to bust but there was injury factored in.
The overall point I think we agree on, these 2 guys were not upward trajectory high level prospects involved in this trade.
Chris Koch
Great I figured you’d say Mejia wasn’t on prospects list anymore. He was top 100 prior to graduating making your point Snell didn’t return 2 top 100 false due to however many games/PAs Mejia graduated. Patina was still rising-oh yeah what you’re talking about with Snelling/Lesko. But wait his debut and results in small sample mean he’s also not really top 100 worthy declare? There’s a reason these prospects are moved because ceilings vs floors. Right now you’re seeing the ceilings potential play out with Snelling and Lesko over a total of 135? Ip combined. So tell me in this era how these 2 do when facing lineups the 3rd time in order? Snelling probably has less than 40PAs of that scenario. Lesko definitely has 0 career. Maybe less than 30 himself on just 2nd time seeing batters.
eddiemathews
Snelling and Soto for Burnes and Wiemer
ReddVencher
That isn’t getting Burnes.
YanksPhan42
“California dreamin……on such a winters daaaaay”! LOL!!!!
Chris Koch
You would be quite wrong to think Burnes wouldn’t bring back 2 top 100 prospects back. That QO pick in 2025 stands to be a top 100 prospect I’d guess about 5pct already returning to SD after it.
SP headline return prospect is the beginnings towards trade so Lesko is the appropriate start. Would they add Snelling? Or the other guys? Brewers do have 2 extra lefty OFs and 1 Righty OF 2nd yr players to sweeten on return. Or they take somebody else. But the whole bites at the apple approach Milw has. I’d like 2 bites at Lesko/Snelling that 1 becomes an Ace of future Brewer teams.
Simm
The padres are definitely not trading Lesko and Snelling for 1 year of Burns.
Chris Koch
Yeah I wouldn’t think both but 1 most definitely. Won’t know though 100pct til any move is made. I mentioned trades can involve one of the Brewers glut of OFs to sweeten a deal, in some comment.
How quick would SD pull the trigger doing so if Milw took Cronenworth off their hands for all of this season and 4-6M per year remainder of contract?
Simm
Padres would keep cronenworth rather than pay him to play somewhere else.
Cronenworth can easily bounce back. So unless someone actually wants him he will be a padre. His aav is pretty low.
I’m sure the padres are talking trades for burns, Bieber, cease, glasnow and the marlins guys. I could even see them making a deal with the mariners that may not involve Soto.
The cards signing Lynn and Gibson for so much has totally screwed the pitching free agent market. Prices are extremely high right now.
Obviously burns is the best of that group.
Should be an exciting week. Just hope teams don’t sit trying to wait all damn month to say let’s do it.
Brew’88
Prospect rankings are sort of silly when we discuss trade value. For example, Merrill (age 20.7) is presently a top 10 MLB prospect, Snelling (age 19.9) is at 60. No evaluator of future MLB value would see those two as being far apart at this time, yet the rankings are what they are. If Snelling isn’t on the MLB roster in April, and he continues to dominate in the minors, then he’ll likely escalate to near top 10 as a prospect by end of 24 season. Hope the Pads hang on to both guys as they look to be great payroll-friendly contributors very soon.
Longtimecoming
Mejia had been given up on by Padres at time of trade. He wasn’t listening to coaches and would not attempt to make changes at the plate.
No, he was not a prospect any more but he also was not considered to be worth keeping. Being a highly rated prospect meant nothing on Mejia.
Longtimecoming
I don’t think SD is ready to move Cro so the thought that this would sweeten the deal is misplaced. The appear to be interested in dropping Grish and his projected arb salary. Mil wouldn’t be interested.
Deleted Userr
Much rather give up Iriarte than Lesko
Simm
Of course. Everyone is super high on Snelling because he dominated this year and is a 19 years old.
Lesko still has the higher ceiling he is just a little behind because he was hurt when we drafted him.
Once Lesko gains some command he will very likely shoot pass snelling.
Lesko is striking out like 35% of the batters he faces. 3 plus to plus plus pitches.
Pads Fans
Thorpe, King, Schmidt, Vazquez, Brito, and two mid-level prospects. That is what the rumors from Martino and others in the NY media have said the Padres wanted. Something they are not budging on.
Why are they saying the Padres are asking for all those guys? Because only Thorpe has much value in trade and being the #95 ranked prospect its not a huge amount. He would be come the #4 and possibly the #5 rated pitching prospect in the Padres system behind Snelling, Lesko, and Iriarte and possibly behind Mazur as well.
Vazquez and Brito might be decent back of the rotation starters and while they are not great prospects, at least they are relatively young. Schmidt is going to be 28 this coming season and is basically a bust in 4 seasons in the majors. At best a #5 starter.
King is a reliever. A swing man at best. He is going into his age 29 season and has just 2 years of team control. He has little to no value in trade.
Effross has not pitched since 2022 because he had TJ surgery. No one has a clue what he will able to do when he returns. He will be 30 years old by the next time he takes the mound in a MLB game. He has no value in a trade. He is the proverbial throw in just to get him off the 40 man roster.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
I’d do King, Thorpe, Brito, and Vasquez for Soto and Grish in a heartbeat if I were AJ.
Simm
Idk, the only way you do that is if you really believe in king. Thorpe is a good prospect but you have to get something else you believe in. Perhaps that’s king.
padrepapi
Will Warren’s gopheritis at AAA makes me think he’s no sure bet to crack the nut as a big league starter. If Thorpe is a “potential” mid rotation starter with only a couple games at AA there is a decent chance the biggest thing your getting from that package is this years salary relief.
Taking Soto’s near guaranteed production to make a run in 2024 and collecting a draft pick and some pool money is where I think they’re getting the most value.
Michael King looking like a solid bet to be a good mid-rotation arm with 2 years of control takes out a ton of risk versus a Yankees 2nd tier prospect package that could very well collectively bust.
Soto in a walk year at 25 could be a .950-.1000 OPS with 40+ bombs. I wouldn’t mind watching that dude peacock his way to free agency. He seems up for putting on a show!
James Midway
Burnes would be nice I know his arbitration last year got a little messy and his relationship with the club was hurt. I don’t know if it’s been fixed or not.
Simm
That sounded like something burns wasn’t forgetting.
Susannah
That bridge was burned.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Padres can’t afford Burnes. They might be able to afford Johnny Cueto if the folks here at MLBTR passed a hat around and we all throw in a couple bucks.
James Midway
Do you have the Padres’ books in front of you or how do you have any insight into their finances? Sounds like your user name is prett accurate.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Hey at least I give my readers a disclaimer before evaluating anything I post. It’s called truth in advertising.
James Midway
Fair enough
User 401527550
Besides the reporting from every news agency out there?
James Midway
Bow Tie Bob and his lackeys at the Athletic? Hahahaha
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
If it is such a false narrative, why hasn’t anyone from the Padres corrected the record yet? Do you think it’s in the Padres best interest to have a false narrative out there that everybody believes?
CyTobb
It may very well be to Preller’s advantage. Or at least he may believe it is.
Pads Fans
James, Just look at his name. It tells the whole story.
Pads Fans
But, but, but everyone is quoting Acee so his article MUST be true, right?
JoeBrady
why hasn’t anyone from the Padres corrected the record yet?
=====================
That’s when you know whether or not the rumors have legs. When Castellanos was the rumor, DD came out immediately to deny it.
James Midway
What are they supposed to say? Ken Rosenthal said that Kevin Acee said that we are poor. I’m here to say we are not poor.
Inside Out
Padres are broke. They are not adding Burnes. Preller also checked on Ohtani but both mean nothing. Padres are trading away not adding anything more than low price pitcher like Lorenzen and not giving up their few remaining prospects.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
They would do that with Boegarts & Darvish & Cronenworth if they could get any takers. But nobody wants those contracts.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Regarding Cronenworth, just going by multiple reports that he could be paired up with Soto in a trade package. Here’s one on Boegarts:
si.com/mlb/red-sox/news/padres-reportedly-could-tr…
CyTobb
The Padres would trade away the whole team before they traded Tatis. But if they can dump that mind boggling stupid Boegarts contact without eating half the remaining salary,that would be a miracle.
JoeBrady
Bogaerts to the RS ain’t happening.
Neon Cop
And I’m interested in Salma Hayek…
Deleted Userr
Why would they trade Soto just to trade for another rental in Burnes?
And don’t say they need starting pitching. Soto fills an even bigger need for the Padres.
El Niño
The bigger need is pitching and it’s not close.
Brew’88
@TG19. Pitching is more important than hitting but when Soto’s gone that lineup has a very low OBP and slug. They probably would have been a bottom tier offensive team last year without Soto. Manny will never carry the team the way he did two years ago, Tatis maybe. But other than those two, it’s not a very scarry lineup. In fact, I would argue that even with Soto in the lineup in 24, the Pads need another really good bat, either at DH, 1B or CF (assuming Tatis stays in RF).
El Niño
We currently only have 2 starting pitchers. The bigger need, right now, is pitching.
Simm
None of these dudes know what the padres will do.
They easily acquire burns and cease and still be fine payroll wise with Soto. Thats 23-24 in arb combined. Padres current are at 176m with Soto.
Trade Grisham and add 5m extra
A'sfaninLondonUK
@Simm
Who is going to trade for Grisham? He’s Bader lite!
Simm
I thought the padres were going to non tender Grisham and save the 5m a week ago.
They didn’t and it was reported at the time because teams showed interest in acquiring him.
So I don’t know but I guess someone wants him. Dennis Lin said yesterday or the day before he thought they could a 5th starter
For him. I don’t know about that but I don’t care if it’s a bag of balls.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
@A’sFan LOL Grisham is Hader Ultra Light in a Slim Can with 0% alcohol by volume. There ain’t nothing there.
Joel P
Because Brunes makes half what Soto makes. They can use that savings on the other holes in their roster. And they can trade for big league ready guys when dealing Soto while trading away prospects for Burnes.
Look at my trade proposal.
Deleted Userr
Trading away Soto costs the Padres more money, not less, because you also have to take into account how much $ the Padres will have to spend to replace Soto in the lineup/outfield.
Jean Matrac
A trade of Soto would be for financial reasons. A trade for Burnes would be for their need of SPs. No way one isn’t being traded for the other though. With only 2 starters right now, and with the bats they have already have in the lineup, they need pitching more than they need Soto’s bat.
Deleted Userr
Trading away Soto costs the Padres more money, not less, because you also have to take into account how much $ the Padres will have to spend to replace Soto in the lineup/outfield.
Joel P
They don’t need to replace Soto with a stud outfielder they can replace him with a lesser outfielder.
Deleted Userr
Without Soto their only outfielder who can hit is Tatis and their only good lefty bat is Cronenworth and even that’s only if he can rebound.
Jean Matrac
I’m sorry, but the idea that trading Soto will cost them more money is delusional. Soto is projected to make $33M in arb. Do you really think it will cost more than $33M to replace him?
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac Anecdotally, if it would cost less than $33m to replace Soto he would have been non-tendered. Empirically, Soto averages 5.5 WAR per season so if we assume 1 WAR is worth $9m Soto would cost $49.5m to replace.
Simm
Who is replacing him? Bellinger who may cost 30m and isn’t nearly as consistent.
The position player market is soooo bad this year.
Find me a lefty outfield bat that comes close to what Soto brings?
Jean Matrac
harambe, Those are two different things. For a team that wants to reduce payroll, they can easily replace Soto for less, even though it means lesser production. If they want to replace the production for less, then you’re correct, that’s about impossible.
But if they are involved in talks to trade Soto, I think it’s because they do need to cut payroll. Otherwise, if they feel they need Soto’s production, which can’t really be replaced, I don’t think they’d even be listening to trade proposals.
Simm
Yeah I think it’s more to do with future value the cutting payroll.
If we are going to lose him next year all it takes is a team that wants him for 1 year more then the padres do to get a deal done.
If nobody offers what we value you him at he stays. It’s pretty simple I think and that’s why they have a high asking price.
Jean Matrac
“Find me a lefty outfield bat that comes close to what Soto brings?”
That’s not the debate. Obviously there’s no one. But as I said above, if the Padres feel the need for Soto’s level of production, why are they even listening on trades for him? It remains a fact, that if they want to cut salary, they can replace Soto and save money, even though the production would be at a lower kevel.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac If they need to cut payroll why would they trade for Corbin Burnes? He isn’t exactly cheap.
Deleted Userr
@Simm The Padres were always going to lose Soto after 2024. I don’t think Preller cares.
Joel P
Burnes is cheap relative to his performance. The Padres don’t necessarily have to cut payroll. But if they dont want to raise it they need to trade Soto and find good underpaid players like Burnes.
Deleted Userr
How does producing at a lower level help them????
Jeremy320
Lmao, I love how you address him as harambe.
Joel P
Burnes isn’t necessarily worse than Soto. And the Padres need pitching. If they don’t get an ace and a couple other pitchers they aren’t going to be legit contenders. On the position player side sure they need a lefty bat but they Hage a lot of talent there. They need starting pitching more.
Deleted Userr
They need a good lefty hitting outfielder more.
“On the position player side sure they need a lefty bat but they Hage a lot of talent there.” (sic)
Who? Who in the Padres’ org at any level bats left-handed and is guaranteed to hit close to as well as Soto in 2024?
Joel P
The Padres have 2 starters right now. They need a starter far more than an outfielder.
The point is they can’t afford all of this stuff. That’s why trading Soto makes sense.
Should they have seen this problem coming? You bet.
Deleted Userr
Soto is more underpaid relative to production than Burnes. If they need to cut payroll and want to actually contend in 2024 they can’t trade Soto.
Jean Matrac
Burnes is half the price of Soto, plus they need pitching right now more than the need Soto, as good as he is.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac I’ll ask it again. Who currently in the Padres org bats left handed and is even close to as good a hitter as Juan Soto?
Jean Matrac
Well, obviously it doesn’t if you completely disregard other factors. Like if they didn’t need pitching and might need to look to the FA market for that, or if they didn’t need to reduce salary, or even maintain that level. then sure keep that level of production. It’s just not that simple.
Jean Matrac
Why is it important that they have a LHH outfielder? Three of their best hitters, Machado, Tatis, and Bogaerts are all RHH. You’re valuing having a LHH in the OF over a TOR arm. I totally disagree with that assessment.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac “Why is it important that they have a LHH outfielder?”
To give the opposing starter a different look? Even if we ignore that, no Soto and the Padres’ only outfielder who can hit at all is Tatis who reportedly wants to move back to the infield.
Jean Matrac
Having a LHH outfielder is a good thing. I just think it’s less important than having more that 2 good SPs.
Deleted Userr
@Jean Matrac Well A. J. Preller clearly disagrees. So go take that one up with him.
Joel P
Yeah I agree if all things were equal they need an ace not Soto.
Simm
They need both. Padres without Soto would be heavy right handed.
Tatis, manny, Xander, campusano, Kim all bat
From the right side. The best option is keeping Soto and using prospects for burns and others.
They have the payroll space to do both.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Please trade Kim to the Mariners!
Brew’88
agree with harambe on this. That lineup needs Soto or it might get ugly. They will never recover much value in SP for 2024 for Soto. Soto for 33M is a steal, use him.
that they are working on a Burnes trade tells me they’re 1. Not broke
2. Far from being broke
3. Probably in on Yamamoto too
4. Likely to sign Lee
5. Not at all broke but going for broke, again.
Joel P
Let’s assume the Padres want to contend in 2024. Let’s assume they have 20 million to spend which I think is optimistic.
What would you do?
The reason trading Soto has been discussed is he makes a ton of money. Money that could be used to fill all the other needs on the team.
Simm
Well 20m isn’t optimistic even the athletic who keeps calling the padres broke said two days ago they have 20m to spend.
So I find that number as the lowest they have to spend.
As far as what would I do simple. I trade for burns and one of the marlins arms or cease. Then find a cheap pre-arb number 5 starter.
That’s all the padres need to compete.
Rotation of burns, cease mustgrove darvish and a 5th guy they find pre-arb.
Can do all that for just over 20m about 23m.
So I only trade Soto if my high asking price is met. Pretty simple they can win it all next year being smart.
Joel P
Burnes and Cease alone make over 23 million. And then there is the bullpen which needs a lot of help.
I think you are going to be disappointed this offseason.
Deleted Userr
@Joel P But it would also open up a much bigger need on the team.
Realistically, barring extreme luck it will cost more than $20m to get the pieces needed to put a contender on the field.
Joel P
Yes I agree it will cost more than 20 million. And I dont think they have the money. That’s why they are considering trading Soto.
The Padres are stuck. That stupid Boegarts contract is the real problem. Throwing money at a player they didn’t need whatsoever was stupid.
Deleted Userr
Trading Soto won’t help it will make the problem worse.
Joel P
If the Padres don’t get 3 starters they have no chance in 2024. Trading Soto would free up money to be able to afford those starters.
You Padres fans are delusional. There is no more throwing money at it. That time has passed. It’s time to learn how a budget works
Deleted Userr
@Joel P If they trade Soto they also have no chance in 2024.
VermonsterSD
Sorry, they have the money, they’ll be in on a few people.
Gwynning
“The reason trading Soto has been discussed” is because teams are calling the 619 Area Code. Enough said.
Soto is NOT being shopped, Padres Season Tickets are sold out for ’24 and MGMT/Ownership (yes, it exists!) are saying they’re still in the hunt for a chip and that essentially nothing (in regards to their attempt) is changing.
But keep telling us how we’re broke and can’t afford to pay the SDG&E bills…
JoeBrady
Soto is NOT being shopped,
=======================
I would bet against an actual trade, but at the same time, make a substantial wager that he is being shopped.
No GM allows their 3rd best player to be in MLB-R every single day without a denial.
Unless there is nothing to deny.
Simm
Article says they are in or checked in on all the major starters. Preller went and watch Yamamoto pitch twice this year. I am sure every plane ride over there he was like../
What am I doing…we are broke.
Joel P
Dude stop telling everyone how the Padres have all this money to spend. It comes off as spoiled and entitled. If they spend it great they spend it.
Brew’88
Obviously (from my post above) I’m not optimistic they have 20M to spend Joel. I’m realistic they have much more than 20M
Gwynning
Then stop telling everyone that they have nothing to spend, Joel! Your highway goes both ways lol
Jeremy320
Not to beat a dead horse but the Padres line-up was ugly(ish) is 2023 w/ soto. At the very least it was not clutch.
Joel P
Of course the delusional Padres fans agree with each other.
That’s all for me. We can talk again after Soto is dealt.
Simm
Yeah it’s 3m over but they will likely trade Grisham and his 5m.
Padres really don’t need much help on the pen.
Suarez
Cosgrove
Santos
Wilson
Jacob’s
Kerr
Morejon
Avila
That’s 8 pen arms who are on the team and pitched in the pen last year. Not saying they couldn’t use another guy but perhaps they trade Grisham for a pen arm.
Would have to fill center but I think they can roll marsee out there and produce Grisham numbers. Marsee is the afl mvp who plays center field.
Look it’s right depending on how close to 200m they need to be if at all.
When I hear around 200m I thinks there is some flexibility. If they can push it to say 210, they maybe able to add a guy like Lee.
One other thing don’t be surprised if that pawn off carp and his 5.5m with one of these trades.
Brew’88
Joel. In reading this article by Acee introducing the Burnes pursuit by Preller consider this. Acee, the spawning agent of the rumor that the Pads will drop to 200M payroll, in this article you see him now accommodating the possibility that the Padres might not necessarily do as he tells them to do?
Long time Pads fans are used to Acee. He sees himself as a biting mischievous sportswriter representing San Diegans against the selfish greed of owners and high-salaried players. He feels empowered to diss on anyone, despite his lacking of facts or any public ownership of his false claims. He’s become a bitter little power tripper boxed into a corner but SDUT likes the controversy he creates. Click bait.
Especially lately, Acee has been trashed by local SD sports journalists/media by his recent over the top stories where he outs everyone angrily, such as the report of all the lack of clubhouse chemistry (refuted by every Padre player), targeting Manny and Soto, etc…, He’s lost all credibility in SD, no one believes the guy. On the matter of payroll, the Padres ownership and leadership have simply not responded to him, or have quipped “Seidler: we do the opposite of what Acee says”.
So I’m saying it’s easier to trust Padre ownership’s commitment as shown by their actions, than Acee rumors. So please try to not be so rude to Padre fans, calling them delusional, when in our experience, it’s those who listen to Acee who are..
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
There is so much smoking of hopium copium amongst Padres fans that it’s rather astounding to watch it all. Maybe I am getting a contact high.
Brew88
And the weather is nice
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
And the beach girls….ahhhh. I am in the Pacific Northwest where it’s overcast , gray, and 40 degrees. A San Diego beach sounds so nice right now.
Gwynning
“Eyeroll” Acee is the perfect nickname!
Brew88
Damn tourists though
Brew’88
@ Joel. The Pads aren’t my #1 team, but I find Padre fans to be some of the most informed in mlbtr, and they argue with each other constantly. So I’m not sure where you’re coming from.
kripes-brewers
Friars get their pitcher and save $15M to boot. Crew gets a near MLB ready 3B or 1B masher and top 10 pitching prospect and save $15M, 3rd team gets Soto. Could work!
Irishblade
Was losing Nick Martinez a bigger loss than losing Blake Snell??
El Niño
lol. No.
Big whiffa
Lord I hope so ! I’ll claim that !
#bigredmachine
steelerbravenation
These guys are all over the place one minute they gotta cut salary the next minute they are interested in Burnes. Hard to keep up.
El Niño
No one knows. It’s all clickbait.
Simm
No the reporter said that…not the padres. Padres fans have been saying all along they will be competitive this year. You all bought the broke padres aren’t going to do anything.
wallabeechamp
LOL!
Padres fans have been saying all along that they have been competitive. They all bought the padres aren’t broke and going to do something nonsense being sold by the likes of Slimm
Jean Matrac
The Padres have to try and be competitive. They’ve invested heavily in a window to win it all that’s still open. But the need to be competitive doesn’t mean it will be business as usual. Trying to be competitive doesn’t go hand-in-hand with being as aggressive as they have been.
They can’t continue to sign guys to big contracts. Their need to reduce payroll is because too many of those type deals can become a problem down the road. Preller is trying to walk a fine line between being competitive while reining in the spending. If you think you’ll see the same level of spending as in previous years, I think you’ll be disappointed.
Simm
Let’s say that’s true..:which you don’t know.
Padres payroll is at 176m right now with Soto. Can see it at sportac.com
Add burns 15m and now it’s 191m. Trade Grisham (5m) and back to 186m.
They could trade for cease or with the marlins for another cheap starter. Cease is more expensive at 8.5m. Still at 194m and room add a pen arm back catcher. They can acquire another started who is even less expensive.
Padres are just fine.
Brew’88
“They’ve invested heavily in a window to win it all that’s still open”
Which is why I doubt they cut payroll to 200M like the gaggle of media are saying. They are playing out the plan, not giving up on it.
Jean Matrac
Current Sportrac figures do not include imminent arb raises. Multiple teams are looking for pitchers. It’s doubtful SD can land both Burnes and Cease. They may need to look to FAs to fill out the rotation. Not to say it’s bleak by any means, but not sure their outlook is as rosy as you see it.
Jean Matrac
Again, wanting to be competitive does not preclude wanting to cut payroll.
Jeremy320
That window slammed shut so hard when the old man passed the glass cracked and the paintings fell off the wall.
Simm
Yeah I did the math and sportac had their arb numbers at 34m which is low. 30-33mmfor Soto, 4.5m for Grisham, 1m santos and 1m for
Morejon is about were they will come in at. Which is 36.5-39.5 pending on sotos being high or lower side. Split it and call it 38m. Which means they are really closer to 180m right now.
Which I doubt 3-5m will make any difference if the right move is there.
Maybe they don’t target cease, rumors are they want a marlins pitcher. Which would be cheaper then cease. There are a lot of options.
Of course the options open even more if they trade Soto.
It feels like Soto will get moved but my point is they can build a team with and without him. Actually prob harder without him because they need his bat.
Pads Fans
The GM, CEO, interim control person, and partner in the team and brother of Peter Seidler said that they will continue with business as usual. 4 different Padres execs.
Pads Fans
Padres only arb raises would be Soto, Grisham, De Los Santos, and Morejon.
Pads Fans
It does when you have that much in guaranteed contracts. It probably won’t be strictly through FA, but the Padres are going to spend this offseason. Its the only way to add 3 starting pitchers, a reliever or two, a catcher, and a DH.
Brew’88
The speculation about the Pads cutting payroll is just that until it happens, or until at least we hear it publicly from actual Padres org. The endless regurgitation of beat writer Kevin Acee’s article from some time ago that they were limited to 200M isn’t fact, it’s speculation from a bitter angry sportswriter who’s credibility in San Diego is at rock bottom.
I like the way the Pads brass handle all the rumors Acee generates, they just don’t comment, or laugh him off by saying “we usually do the opposite of what Acee says we will do”
The Pads have always talked about optimizing payroll, being careful not to exceed tax limits, etc..but they also have ownership quite willing to exceed their spending goals when it comes to the opportunities that arise. When they say that won’t change, and they say it publicly, and have a recent history of backing up that goal, then it’s hard to just go with Acee’s speculation instead. But we’re talking about Acee, ad naus, every media outlet links to Acee’s outrageous and outdated article, and that’s the whole goal with SDUT now. Generate click bait without supporting facts or evidence or sources. I’m tired of talking about their payroll. Let’s wait and see what unfolds.
iml12
It seems like pretty straight-forward the plan. They cut salary to replace a bunch of pitching. Trade Soto and Grisham and sign and trade for multiple pitchers. Try to make the playoffs in 2024. The 22nd size market in the mlb is going to have an extremely tough time living over the luxury tax and being profitable. I wouldn’t be shocked if they lost money last year. I am fairly confident Cohen said they lost money in 2023 with their massive payroll.
VermonsterSD
Except that nobody from the Padres organization said they had to cut salary…… It’s all been speculation based on 1 reporter’s take, which he is wrong on half the time.
Jean Matrac
It’s been reported on enough outlets that I have to buy that they want to reduce payroll. Maybe Acee’s word alone is questionable on some things, but reliable sources don’t simply repeat without some verification. Acee is credited as the original source, like all news outlets do, but I doubt the entire industry is simply taking Acee at his word without looking into the validity of the report.
Simm
Almost all the outlets are referencing acee’s article.
Jean Matrac
Did you not read my post? Or maybe not understand it? I seriously doubt outlets like CBS Sports, Fox Sports, and MLB.com, etc., outlets with a reputation to uphold,, are simply parroting Acee’s words without some verification as to the validity?
Brew88
I work with media daily in my job, that national outlets would blindly regurgitate the same talking points and links despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary ( Padres ownership) is the norm. It’s up to you to resolve the truth, and sorry that burden is on you, it sucks I agree.
Or you could simply infer it from Acee’s article here, about the Pads being in on Burnes. He also now finally acknowledges they are in on Yamamoto, Lee and other pricey FAs. See Acee backpeddle. See Acee acknowledge, never directly, that his rumor of payroll slashing was greatly exaggerated, or pulled out of his heinnie
CyTobb
EXACTLY!!! Throw in the garbage from Dennis Lin and you have the basis for nearly every Padres-related “article” these last few months.
Jean Matrac
So you’re saying every outlet reporting the Padres’ desire to reduce payroll is just lazy? They don’t verify? Since I don’t work with media every day I find that to be extremely depressing.
Of course, if SD does take steps to reduce salary in the future this will call the word of you, and others, into question.
But for anyone that looks into the Padres long term financial commitments, it makes total sense for them to want to get the payroll down to a reasonable level.
Brew88
@Jean It is depressing. And I agree, we all need to wait and see rather than take Acee’s word as gospel.
Pads Fans
Every article I have read has either referenced Acee in the article or linked to his article. Someone posted 5 links on another article and all of them referenced or linked to Acee or both.
The Padres are now revnue sharing payers That means their revenue is at a minimum of $440 million. We know from the Braves and Blue Jays, two teams that are owned by public companies so they are required to report revenue and costs, that non-baseball operations costs run about $130 million. We know from MLB that outside of MLB payroll and benefits, that all baseball operations costs run around $20 million.
Padres revenue was over $440 million
Padres payroll was $255 million
Benefits around $17 million
Other baseball operations around $20 million
Non-Baseball operations costs $130 million
That means they were at a minimum breaking even and best case making a 5% profit.. Payroll is at a reasonable level if your goal is not to take a huge profit and pocket it.
A couple of other things. The Padres have already sold out season tickets for next season and are holding a Holiday sale until Dec 4th. There are not any good seats left and very few at all. They might sell out the season before opening day. At a minimum they will have a another season where they draw more than 3 million.
The facts that we know to be true like those I listed call into question everything the media is saying. So does the fact that Acee himself said in the next article he wrote that the reasoning he had used, that the Padres were supposedly in violation of the MLB rules on debt service ratio, was incorrect. That most MLB teams had been in violation after the 2020 season, but that the Padres had submitted a plan prior to the 2023 season and were no longer considered in violation.
Pads Fans
Go look at the articles and tell us. Someone that was trying to say that “everyone is saying it” linked to 5 articles including CBS, MLB.com, and even Forbes and all of them referenced him by name or linked to Acee or both.
Pads Fans
While Acee never said the words, the Padres don’t have to cut payroll, he did admit in his very next article that the reasoning he had used to make that claim was incorrect. He said in the original article that because they were in violation of the debt service ratio rule that they had to cut payroll to get back in compliance. In the very next article he wrote, he said that most teams were in violation after 2020 and all MLB required was them to submit a plan to get back in compliance and it was settled. The Padres had done that prior to the 2023 season and then went out and spent $250 million on payroll.
Brew’88
“It’s been reported on enough outlets that I have to buy that they want to reduce payroll”
We see thousands of outlets report on the latest bigfoot sighting or UFO. Number of clicks doesn’t make it more likely to be true.
Brew88
Half the time deliberately, the other half he’s just wrong
Pads Fans
Padres have never once said they needed to cut payroll. Only Kevin Acee has and even he backtracked on that a day later. Unfortunately, the media keeps referencing his article and fans of other teams keep parroting the incorrect info that Acee originally wrote.
Simm
What’s funny is a read an article Acee wrote about a week ago or around there.
It’s talked about how in 2018 the padres had a payroll of 104m. That since 2018 the padres have more than doubled their revenue. At the same time their payroll has risen to 255m.
If you do some educated guessing. In 2018 the padres were not spending big. So one would think they made a profit that year. Of course we have no idea if they did or how much.
If you double the 104m in payroll you get to 208m. If reports are correct and they more than doubled revenue since having a 104m payroll then they should be able to easily afford the 208m payroll. If they were making a profit in 2018 on that payroll then one could assume if they ran a 208m payroll now they would at least doubled the profit.
So depending on how much more than double the revenue since 2018 they had and how much profit they made back then. You could see how they can afford a 250m payroll.
Once again this is just taking reports and doing some reasonable guess work.
One thing Pads Fan didn’t mention is they also raised ticket prices again this year some 10+%. So that will help bring in more revenue.
Now did the padres make, break even or lose money last year. I don’t know but you can see at the very least they can run a 200+m payroll without an issue.
Fred
Is this the Dads admitting the Soto deal was bad? Gore and Abrams’ combined production exceeded Soto’s 2023 value and then had to pay him. Gore and Abrams are still on the league minimum. Hassell and Wood will both make their major league debuts at a time when the Padres need young outfielders.
Might be a future hall of famer if he can keep up the production but his defense is declining and his exit velocity really declined in 2023.
El Niño
Let’s see Abrams do it again, I’m a fan, but let’s wait before crowning him. Gore, I like a lot too, hope he stays healthy. The other guys need to make it to the bogs first. Remember when Joe addell was a can’t miss untouchable? lol
Fred
Remember when Mike Stanton was a can’t miss 24 year old?
Joel P
Gore and Abrams provided more value than Soto? Really?
Fred
Player 1 – 5.5WAR, $23M
Player 2 – 3.4WAR, 700k
Player 3 – 2.0WAR, 700k
Washington received better value in the deal because they don’t have to pay $23M, they control both players for 5+ years, and they still have three top prospect that will be joining the major league roster from that deal in 2024.
El Niño
@Fred Washington isn’t close to competing so you’re not comparing apples to apples there. That’s where analytics guys lose me. Analytics are valuable but not everything.
Simm
Keep in mind there are 26 roster spots. The padres only had to use one with Soto. So they got value from someone else and perhaps for league min.
Fred
Did the Padres compete in 2023?
El Niño
@Fred yes, they did. They finished 2 games behind the diamondbacks who went on to the WS. The year before that they were in the NLCS.
Joel P
Fangraphs is the WAR I prefer to use and it’s 5.5 to 3.4 in Sotos favor. But regardless of that it really shouldn’t be that close. Like you said the Padres had to pay Soto. Yeah that looks like a really bad trade.
Fred
And finished 18 behind the Dodgers. Finishing in third place, two games above .500 isn’t completing.
El Niño
I guess it depends on your definition of competing. Where’d the nationals finish the last few years?
Longtimecoming
Who went deeper out of the last 2 years? Dodgers or Padres? Keep being happy just winning the division.
Simm
No it’s not completing but it is competing
Brew’88
It was a 6 players for 2 players trade. You can’t compare WAR to decide where value was gained. Trades aren’t made in a bubble, they involve team building decisions.
Soto provided much more value than Myers/Profar
Wacha replaced Gore and was better
Bogaerts/Kim blocked Abrams from bigs and are better than Abrams
Anyway, verdict is still out on the trade and how it helps each team get better.
Deleted Userr
@Brew’88 You don’t trade CJ Abrams, MacKenzie Gore and James Wood for nothing, which is what will have happened if the Padres trade Soto this offseason.
Joel P
They got a year and a half out of Soto. 2 playoff runs, or at least that was the plan. And they can still get something back for Soto now it just won’t be as much.
I have said all I care to say. You can talk to your fellow Padre fans and you can all dream about this and that but reality is about to set in.
Deleted Userr
No, the plan was to get 3 playoff runs out of him. No one trades for Juan Soto or someone like him to “get something back for him that won’t be as much.” No one.
Ma4170
Have to look at more than just war in player value. Thats why we have all of these other pieces of data to look at. Padres getting soto and then being able to play bogaerts (or Kim full time as opposed to utility) instead of abrams and gore was a huge value gain last year. Im a met fan, but its obvious their unusually bad record in extra inning games was likely a fluke and they still only missed playoffs by two games. That team w that run differential would usually have made the playoffs, and from there, who knows.
Deleted Userr
If having Soto instead of Gore is a huge value gain why are they supposedly about to trade Soto for pitchers that aren’t as good as Gore?
Brew’88
agreed harambe, trading Soto now basically admits to a monumental fail on the Nats trade.
Fred
How come the Dads only won four more games from 2022 though?
Brew88
A lot of factors, lack of clutch hitting and clutch RPing, a manager asleep at the wheel in close games, but Soto was standout among all in that underachieving lineup. He’s not to blame at all.
Pads Fans
Gore has 4 years of team control and you just showed that your previous statement was wrong.
JoeBrady
@Fred Washington isn’t close to competing so you’re not comparing apples to apples there.
==================================
It’s not close. In fact, I’d argue that if they didn’t make the trade, they wouldn’t have signed Bogaerts either. They you would only need 2 SPs instead of three, and would have an additional $58M to spend.
JoeBrady
Bogaerts/Kim blocked Abrams from bigs and are better than Abrams
========================
No, they actually spend $25M for Bogaerts to replace what Abrams would’ve supplied, since Bogaerts was signed after they traded Abrams.
A rough calculation would be:
Bogaerts + Soto
or
Abrams, Gore, Yamamoto, and Snell.
JoeBrady
Padres getting soto and then being able to play bogaerts (or Kim full time as opposed to utility) instead of abrams and gore was a huge value gain last year.
====================
It was a huge value loss if you consider the salaries. Soto + X = 9.9 bWAR. Abrams + Gore = 5.4 bWAR. So for $48M + a top-20 prospect + a top-100 prospect, you pick up 4.5 WAR?
Brew’88
@JBrady. Yes you’re correct my mistake. But at the time Abrams was blocked by Tatis/Kim/Cronenworth. At this date Bogaerts/Kim are still an improvement and that was the point I was trying to make. I like Abrams and hope he continues to rise.
Brew’88
Clearly the Padres were not focused on salaries, from a value standpoint, as they were fielding the best team 2022-24
good vibes only
Hard to tell how the Pads feel about that deal. It was probably worth it just to feel as good as they did beating the Dodgers that year in the NLDS.
El Niño
Agree. I’ll remember slaying the dragon that year for the rest of my life.
Simm
Soto is still a padres so check back in a year.
Anal baguette
I stopped reading after, “Kevin Acee reported”.
James Midway
True Acee lost the only insider he had when they traded Hosmer.
Brew’88
I read on just to enjoy the flowing text of Acee eating his words on payroll broken v. Burnes quest
Hired Gun 23
The Nationals got quantity. Gore isn’t an ace but more of a mid-rotation guy. Abrams well be alright. And Hassel, and Wood are still a ways off. Neither maintained the high prospect status they had when they were traded…
Jean Matrac
I don’t think they’re admitting any mistake. When they acquired Soto, many thought it greatly increased their chances of winning a WS title. Every acquisition is a gamble, and this one didn’t pay off (at least not so far). Plus prospects are always a crapshoot. More of them fail than succeed. Maybe in hindsight the Padres might have done differently, but no one can see into the future. I’m not a Preller fan, but in this case I liked the deal for SD at the time, and admired Preller for his willingness to go for it.
Brew’88
WS titles are hard to get. Ask every team that ever played in MLB. But getting Soto did help them get a pitch or two away (to Harper) from WS in 22. Last year didn’t work out, but it wasn’t Soto’s fault. The trade for Soto included him being a Padre in 2024 and competing again for a WS. Verdict is still out. I don’t know why they’d bail on that goal with him, unless the rumors about their sudden financial woes are real (totally denied by the way by what Pads brass have been saying publicly last few weeks). And if that’s the case (and Acee isnt making it up) they’d trade Soto for prospects rather than MLB ready pitchers, and would not be pursing (as they are) guys like Burnes and Yamamoto and Lee.
Ma4170
Yes, nothing so far says anyone other than abrams will be successful in mlb. Jury still out on the others, including gore.
Longtimecoming
Ma – I think Gore has a good chance at career of 3/4 but the problem is that he was tabbed as the next coming of Clayton Kershaw and he will never live up to that hype – remember being the #1 SP prospect back in the day (Mejia was top rated C) so this just proves the “prospects are suspects” line. Hassell and Wood both regressed just for the record.
Ma4170
You may be right, and i hope for his sake he has some success.
Deleted Userr
Gore and Abrams’ production did not exceed Soto’s in 2023.
JoeBrady
Pads Fans6 hours ago
Gore 2.0 WAR+ …. 3.4 WAR = 5.4 WAR combined
Soto 157 OPS+ 5.5 WAR
==========================
So it only cost you $23M in opportunity cost to attain that extra 0.1 WAR?
Pads Fans
Gore – 97 ERA+. Below league average 2.0 WAR
Abrams – 95 OPS+ Below league average. 3.4 WAR
5.4 WAR combined
Soto 157 OPS+ 5.5 WAR
Soto provided more production than the two of them combined.
Soto’s exit velocity was the highest of his career. So was his hard hit %.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/juan-soto-665…
You do know you can check this stuff before you post, right?
Fred
The Padres also had to pay Soto millions more. That money could have been spent on Bellinger or bullpen help.
The Giants won three World Series rings in five years without trading for a player like Soto.
Why are the Padres so mediocre?
towinagain
A) Do not trade Soto to the Yankees. Lesson learned after Andujar and Frasier, the Yankees farm system is HIGHLY OVERRATED.
As a Padres fan I’d trade Soto to the Dodgers over the Yankees. At least we’d get something back.
B) Barnes is a good idea to replace Snell. May have similar results plugging him in.
C) The Pads need to hit on some of their draft picks, rotation wise. Stop counting on trades to bolster the rotation. The Pads need to develop a Cease or Strider.
D) Yankees want a trade with the Padres, take Grisham.
That’s all.
Joel P
Are you talking about Clint Frazier? The Yankees traded FOR Frazier they didn’t trade him away.
And good gosh the Dodgers have the most overrated group of “prospects” around.
towinagain
I’ll take Dodger prospects 1000 times over any Yankees prospects.
I’ll vomit if I see the Pads trade Soto to the Yankees.
Yankees farm is pathetic!!!
towinagain
Exactly they had to trade for Frazier. Look at Andujar? Where is he now? He was hyped like crazy
Brew’88
@towinagain. The Snelling, Lesko, Iriarte, Mazur group is looking promising towards your C). Hope they hang on to them all. Iriarte should get serious consideration for opening day rotation I think. Snelling a possible mid-season call up.(assuming he keeps dominating in minors)
towinagain
Agreed. I think there is a gem in our system. Hope we don’t trade them for a Verdugo or some other decent but not spectacular player. Could see them trading for a player to replace Soto. Not too excited about that idea.
Brew’88
Yeah, if they trade Soto and replace him by say, trading Lesko and Iriarte for a decent but not great OF, it would be a monumental fail and I’d be on the fire Preller bandwagon
Gwynning
Gold Glove CFers have value, and Grish is relatively cheap and controllable for ’25. He holds the greatest likelihood of being traded. This opens up CF for Junior and it’s (knock on wood) looking like Lee to RF. All this portends to keeping Soto, which I believe will happen.
The Brew Crew does not need to trade Burnes… although I think they should semi-reset and align with a new, refreshed contention window. With this being said, I think Burnes will be “too expensive” to acquire; I don’t necessarily want to move any of Lesko, Snelling, Iriarte, etc. for a rental arm. Maybe revisit the possibility if you whiff on Yamamoto and Snell? Until then, keep our top arms in our farm- they’re looking pretty special for the long con. And if you really, really love Burnes… go hard to sign him after ’24 to join your Yu, Musgrove, Yamamoto and Snelling rotation. Happy Holidays to everyone who reads this, have a safe and fun time.
Offseasons Greeting to all!
Brew88
And to you good sir!
Simm
You keep soto and not go all in this year. That’s the worse thing they can do.
If you don’t want to trade all the prospects it would take to compete or the padres don’t want a 250m payroll again then you can trade Soto.
Try and get enough to be competitive this year and have some additional resource for next year.
In my eyes you can’t keep Soto and not fully go for it knowing he will most likely be gone next year.
Perfect world they keep Soto and spend in free agency to fill the pitching holes. Maybe they will still happen but there is a lot of smoke about trading Soto.
Pads Fans
What I find funny is so many on here are saying the Padres should give up more for Burnes than they think they should get for Soto.
JoeBrady
I don’t necessarily want to move any of Lesko, Snelling, Iriarte, etc. for a rental arm.
========================
Part of the issue with developing prospects is that the Padres don’t play them. For all the talk about the Padres farm, and Preller is a genius at that, SD doesn’t play any of them.. Maybe 80-85% of the SD WAR came from the outside.
JoeBrady
In my eyes you can’t keep Soto and not fully go for it knowing he will most likely be gone next year.
=================================
This I would say is the most logical. IF they are going to rebuild, the year should be 2025, not 2024. By 2025, they have a number of prospects that should be ML-ready. You lose $50M in salary from 24 to 25, and that would be enough for a salary reset.
None of know, but if money was available, I would go all-in on short contracts, particularly someone like Glasnow, who should only cost mainly money.
Brew’88
@JoeBrady, why do so many assume the Pads are in rebuild mode?
JoeBrady
the Yankees farm system is HIGHLY OVERRATED.
===================
The same system that produced Judge , Volpe, and several others?
Brew’88
I’ve never liked the general term “overrated” it means different things to people under different parameters. However if you go with MLB Pipeline’s most recent ranking (August 2023) of each clubs farm system, the Yanks rank 21, Padres 9. Orioles # 1
towinagain
Judge yes. Volpe, come on man?! Dude doesn’t even have mich of a track record and even the small sample size he is merely good at best. No, the Yankees farm system is just average if anything. Flip it, you are trading Soto to the Padres, would you be happy with the players you are getting back? If the Padres sent the Yankees the package the Yankees want to send the Padres for Soto New Yorkers would riot and run Cashman out of town.
99socalfrc
Imagine if the Padres spent as much time developing young cheap talent as they do making splashy moves to patch up their shotty roster.
Simm
They are able to make all these splashy moves they constantly have you cheap talent teams want.
CardsFan57
I don’t see many teams making big purchases until they see what the complete shut down of Bally Sports at the end of the season will do to media revenue. I don’t see MLB covering the total missed payments in 2025. They need to figure that out.
I think Soto is going to regret not taking the Nationals extension offer.
Pads Fans
MLB has already said they will cover 80% of any lost revenue. For the Padres they covered 80% of the one payment the Padres lost. They never made another payment to the Padres after that.
The Padres signed individual contracts with each of the carriers separately and were back on the air the very next day. Then they got started selling the single team streaming packages and had 285,000 subscribers at $20 per month by the end of the season. Since they produce it and handle all the backend on the streaming, I am sure MLB took part of it, but no matter how you slice it that alone added $4 million or more per month to the Padres coffers.
Everyone I have read says that the Padres will make more money from TV and streaming in 2024 than the $52 million that DSG would have paid them,
I don’t know if that will hold true for every team, but the Diamondbacks lost their RSN deal and the Rangers have as well now and it hasn’t stopped other teams from making large long-term payroll commitments.
CardsFan57
I don’t know where you get your information. This is from a San Diego Tribune article dated 11/1/2023 about the loan San Diego used to cover expenses. “The league will produce Padres games again in ‘24. It is not known how much the league will subsidize and how much the Padres will receive from advertising revenue, but it will be far less than $50 million.”
DSG is going bankrupt for paying too much on TV media rights. I seriously question how the league will do better than those excessive payments. Non sports fans have been subidizing sports through cable payments for decades. That’s over. Let’s see how that plays out. I’m sure many owners are a bit nervous about it.
taran7
I’m interested in Roberto Clemente.
Hired Gun 23
Well if Steve Adams and Kevin Acee are discussing it, how could it not be true…
El Niño
Hahahahaha. Great comment.
Deleted Userr
Oh. And the Padres don’t want to “unload the contract of a player like Trent Grisham.” If they did they would have non-tendered him.
El Niño
Grisham still has value. They can get something for a gold glove center fielder.
Deleted Userr
I know. You missed the point. This article implies that he’s a “trade to offset salary” player. Players who are still in arb can’t be “trade to offset salary” players.
El Niño
How so? If you trade Grisham for someone who’s pre-arb isn’t that getting value on a lesser contract? Whereas cutting him you get nothing.
Deleted Userr
That’s different. In your scenario the Padres aren’t trading Grisham to offset salary they are trading him to get someone they want more than him. If Grisham is traded it will be because the other team wanted him. The Padres aren’t going to say “Oh! But you also have to take Trent Grisham or no deal!” if they and some other team have already agreed to terms on a trade that doesn’t include him.
El Niño
Eh, I think this is some semantics, but point taken.
Simm
That’s because mlbtr can’t write a think without implying the padres are broke. They have swollen acre’s article as deep as anyone.
Deleted Userr
Not semantics at all. Clearly the Padres see *some* value in Trent Grisham, even if it’s not clear how much. Players with value aren’t traded as salary offsets.
El Niño
You’re not making sense dude. I know you think you are with “the padres lose money by trading Soto, but you’re not.
Deleted Userr
@TG19 They are. Soto will cost a lot more to replace than the ~$33m he is about to get from arbitration.
Brew’88
Simm dude you need a spell checker, but what your iphone AI just wrote is borderline poetry
Simm
Haha, yeah. I need bigger letters. Or maybe to actually read what I right like ever.
Brew88
Acee = swollen acre 98% of the time
Brew’88
unless they sign a FA like Lee (and if they do they’re not broke), then they might as well keep Grish. Azocar is equally low-impact bat and not nearly as good a fielder. They have no OFs in the minors ready to step up unless you want to throw Marsee or Tirso Ornelas out there and hope they outhit Grish. Head, Zavala, Bush Jr not close
Simm
Think Marsee will get a shot during spring. He bats lefty as well so I can see him beating out Grisham. Though I highly doubt Grisham is back next year.
mark1623
I quickly dismiss any rumor that includes Grisham as a supposed salary dump for exactly this reason.
Big whiffa
Jackson Merrill for burnes and 20 mil.
Brewers best jump all over that !
Simm
Brewers won’t want to pay 20m. Maybe if they do move Merrill in a deal for burns the padres get a different piece back with burns.
I think the brewers take a year to regroup. Either way Merrill would have great appeal to them. He is a redundant on the padres.
It’s very unlikely the brewers trade an under paid guy and eat money. Which they wouldn’t need to hear either.
Chris Koch
Weak. SPs with high ceilings over a SS headliner.
Gwynning
Chris, you’d honestly decline a legit Top 10 MLB SS prospect for 1 year of Burnesy? We can write-off Burnes as being traded at all then. Maybe at the TDL Milwaukee will feel differently.
Chris Koch
I would see that SS position is easily filled these days by FAs, draft, and trades. Far easier than bringing in top of rotation to Ace potential prospects. Something the Brewers would be giving up 1yr and potential draft selection of. They have Turang to bat 9th and play GG level defense for 6more seasons. 4 very cheaply if not all 6 if he’s just a defensive wizard there hitting 675 OPS.
It’d be different feelings of course if Turang was not only inept at the plate, but defensively. I mean it’s not like Turang’s AAA numbers are that far behind Merrill’s 2023 minor league numbers. Turang puts together good at bats and is a threat on base paths locked in at 8 or 9 in a lineup? He will be certain teams nightmares when he’s getting on base vs them after a 2/17 stretch not.
Cleon Jones
Can we just assume every team is interested in having Burnes? Will save a lot of redundancy in speculating one at a time.
Simm
No we can’t…I haven’t seen anything about the A’s being interested yet.
outinleftfield
My wife and I are celebrating our 42nd wedding anniversary this weekend. Every year since 1996 we have gone to the Opryland Resort. We just have a standing reservation. Same room. Same dinner reservations. Same walks through the incredible grounds and Christmas decorations.
I had NO idea that the Winter Meetings were here starting tomorrow. Just walked into Jack Daniels restaurant to have a drink and happy hour apps and it’s packed. More reporters than I have ever seen in one room and it’s just one of many, many restaurants on the resort.
Jean Matrac
Hey, congratulations on 42 years.
Deleted Userr
He’s totally capping by the way. He makes up stories like this all the time.
outinleftfield
Thanks! She didn’t feed me to the sharks, so I must be doing something right.
Longtimecoming
Congrats.
Pads Fans
Congrats. That is awesome. Love to hear things like that because it gives me hope.
Now that you know the Winter Meetings are there, are you going to be out insider and get the scoop from some of those reporters and FO execs that are there?
Brew’88
congrats on the 42 years. you must be old, bah! Say howdy to Heyman for me.
Melchez17
I wonder if the Yankees would give up some prospects for a Soto and Yelich package? That would solve the outfield problem.
Yankee prospects go to Padres and Brewers
Padres get Burnes and maybe a prospect from the Yankees
Brewers get a bunch of prospects.
Simm
Sounds like the Soto to Yankees ship has been burned down.
Mustard Tiger
If anyone is getting Burnes, it’s the Dodgers. The Padres have very little chance here.
Simm
Hahaha wrong. Unless you are trading miller which you are not. The Padres have better prospects than the dodgers and it isn’t even close.
Chris Koch
Padres interest is likely to keep the Dodgers from getting Burnes and turning it around on them by getting Burnes. Pads definitely have SP prospects to take Burnes from Milw at a moments notice.
Brew’88
“….and the team’s interest altogether indicates that Preller isn’t planning a fire sale of the roster”
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Like we’ve been saying..
Joel P
I don’t think anyone says the Padres are planning a fire sale.
But the only ones saying the Padres have money to spend this offseason are Padres fans.
Teams have a budget. The Padres have exceeded that budget the last couple years trying to gain some credibility. And I would say that worked. But they didn’t win anything and the bills are coming due.
foppert1
And Manfred has to approve the budget.
Pads Fans
Manfred has to approve violations of the debt service ratio. He has to approve major loans. He gets no say in payroll unless it violates the first one. The Padres were able to take out a loan to pay for their new development at Tailgate Park, so they are obviously not in violation of the first one.
Brew’88
Joel. Doesn’t getting into the final 4 in 22 count for winning something? If not then almost every team hasn’t won much of anything in the last couple of years.
The Pads under Seidler family have set forth a long-term plan to spend and compete. It’s going to take some time for some to understand this and I get it given their history. But if they have a 200M budget this year (or lower) beers on me.
Pads Fans
The Padres new interim control person, CEO, GM, and partner and brother of Peter Seidler have all said the plan is to continue to run the team the exact same way that Peter had.
Do you REALLY think that means to cut payroll? Do you REALLY think that Acee knows more than those guys do about what the Padres will do in 2024?
rolafaive
Why would the Brewers look to reunite with Grisham, they didn’t think enough of him to keep him and not trade him a few years ago.
mlb fan
As you already point out the Brewers don’t want Grisham; they already have plenty of OF who can’t hit.
expos_back_by_2025
I see a triple team pulling off this trade: Burnes to SD, Soto to that “new other team” and a bunch of prospects to Milwaukee
Simm
Maybe but the padres don’t need prospects from trading Soto to get burns. They have plenty without any from a Soto trade.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Exactly. They need MLB ready pitching, at least one OF, and a 1B. Prospects aren’t gonna cut it.
Daryl Pauley
I expect Burnes to be traded. I expect the Brewers to get an elite return for him. Baltimore and Cincinnati seem like the best place to get that return without too much pain because of their prospects and tradeable players.
brewsingblue82
Let’s be honest. Anyone planning to contend in 2024 is interested in Corbin Burnes. So probably about half the league. I’m not sure the padres, who spend over 200 million on their team payroll and plan to contend being interested is even newsworthy.
Longtimecoming
Anyone else watching Kiss End of the World on PPV?
Hired Gun 23
I think I heard that the Padres aren’t in accordance with something regarding the payroll and MLB. I didn’t hear it here, I heard it from a reputable sourse. Damn memory isn’t what it once was…
Simm
That’s been cleared up like a month ago or so. Commissioner said the padres are in good shape.
Fire Krall
Padres = Last Place
Simm
Here is what I find funny.
If the padres trade Soto it’s for a salary dump and they won’t get all that much back.
If the brewers trade burns it will be for an elite return.
Even though Soto is clearly the more valuable player of the two.
Brew88
Yeah quite the dichotomy of reasoning
SalaryCapMyth
Conflicting opinions. The person who says Burns will get a haul would probably also say Soto will get a haul as well. It’s just that they post along side the person who says Burns won’t get you a haul and neither will Soto.
The side that is right is the one that says neither will get a haul, or at least what is usually meant by those who use that description. Soto MIGHT net a team a top 100 with some company but one season of control just isn’t going to get farm shattering packages.
JoeBrady
I was thinking the same thing, just the opposite. A lot of Padres fans are looking for elite return for Soto, and not giving up much for Burnes.
CyTobb
“” Empirically, Soto averages 5.5 WAR per season so if we assume 1 WAR is worth $9m Soto would cost $49.5m to replace.””
If this was all that’s required to build a great lineup, then the Padres would have won the world series last year.
Chris Koch
Well. SD definitely has the SP prospect firepower to motivate a Burnes trade by Milwaukee. So anything can happen. I’d be for it.
Pads Fans
But wait!!! The Padres are cutting payroll!! How can they ADD $15 million for Burnes?
LMAO.
Chris Koch
That’s for them to figure out. Point is San Diego gets Burnes versus Dodgers getting him. I don’t even know if Arizona or San Fran are trying or have the prospects Crew would like in return. Not all moves are made as best player for the team, but stopping the best player joining a rival within its division. I feel the Pads did a few of that type recently to spite the Dodgers.
Brew’88
@ Koch.
“Point is San Diego gets Burnes versus Dodgers getting him. I don’t even know if Arizona or San Fran are trying or have the prospects Crew would like in return”
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Truth. And I’m a Giants fan.
And I find it so odd that it was literally just months ago, that the baseball world was portraying the Padres as a team that gutted its minors, sold the farm, went for broke, all for one brief moment of glory, only to fail. Experiment over.
And yet here we go again. I read, throughout so much of the offseason chatter already, that the Padres are uniquely positioned flush with prospects, to pull off any trade. Need talent? The Pads have what you need. Seems as though they aren’t sunk. They are sustaining. They keep cloning top prospects at a high rate. Have to assume they will keep competing and be dangerous.