The Padres had talks with the Blue Jays about a possible trade involving Jake Cronenworth, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reports. These discussions notably took place prior to the trade that saw the Padres move Juan Soto and Trent Grisham to the Yankeees, and Rosenthal now suggests that Cronenworth might not be moved since San Diego would be moving another left-handed hitter from a lineup that now tilts rather heavily to the right side.
Rosenthal’s suggestion notwithstanding, the Padres’ payroll balance might be a bigger factor than lineup balance in gauging a Cronenworth trade. Cost-cutting has been the central theme of the Friars’ offseason, as the team is looking to reset its luxury tax status and perhaps drop the payroll under $200MM, from an approximate $255MM figure in 2023. This was the chief reasoning behind the Soto trade, as well as Grisham’s inclusion in the deal to move some extra salary off the books. The Padres also dealt Matt Carpenter to the Braves in another salary dump of a move, while free agent pitchers Seth Lugo, Michael Wacha, and Nick Martinez have all signed elsewhere (and Blake Snell and Josh Hader also doesn’t seem likely to be re-signed).
With this focus in mind, it is hard to imagine that the Padres wouldn’t also be eager to get Cronenworth’s contract off the books. The infielder is still owed $78MM over the course of a seven-year extension that officially begins with the 2024 season, and that deal now looks like a front office misfire in the wake of Cronenworth’s disappointing 2023 campaign. While Cronenworth hit a solid .256/.338/.431 over 1519 plate appearances for San Diego from 2020-22, he stumbled to a .229/.312/.378 slash line in 522 PA last season and suffered a right wrist fracture that ended his year in late August.
MLBTR’s Anthony Franco recently looked at the obvious difficulties San Diego would face in trying to trade Cronenworth at this low point in his value, and it seems very unlikely the Padres would be able to swing a deal unless they either ate a big chunk of Cronenworth’s deal, or took on another undesirable contract in return. As such, it might benefit the Friars to just hang onto Cronenworth and hope that he can rebound next season — either to boost his trade value or simply to reclaim his spot as a building block in the team’s future.
From the Blue Jays’ perspective, acquiring Cronenworth makes sense given the club’s needs at second base and third base. The versatile infielder has primarily played at the keystone at the MLB level, though he could chip in at third base in a pinch, and also act as a backup for Toronto at shortstop and first base, to boot. The Jays are also short on left-handed hitters, though naturally the bigger question would be whether Cronenworth would provide much of a lineup upgrade given his 2023 struggles.
It is fair to assume that Toronto’s inquiries didn’t involve the Jays picking up even the majority of Cronenworth’s deal, unless perhaps the interest was also tied into the Blue Jays’ known interest in Soto. This is purely speculative on my part, but the Jays might’ve considered the idea of taking on the bulk of Cronenworth’s contract in addition to Soto, as a way of reducing the prospect cost that would’ve gone back to San Diego in return. This tactic would’ve added quite of bit of extra money to Toronto’s payroll, yet the Jays might’ve considered it worthwhile to land Soto even for a year, and without dealing from its minor league ranks. If Cronenworth had then bounced back in a Jays uniform, that would’ve been an additional long-term bonus.
While Grisham was unloaded as part of the actual Soto trade with the Yankees, the Padres prioritized talent acquisition rather than pure salary offload in the eventual deal, upgrading their rotation with pitchers who can help now (i.e. Michael King) and in the future. Given how the Padres still plan to compete in 2024 rather than embark on a pure fire sale, watering down Soto’s trade value by attaching a more cumbersome contract like Cronenworth’s extension to the package wouldn’t have been the wiser long-term play.
619MetroFriars
Cronenworth was recently confirmed as not going anywhere this year. Old news. 1B/DH is the plan for him for 2024. #3 in the batting order (with Machado cleaning up), and Tatis batting second. (X or Kim will leadoff).
Inside Out
What are you talking about? No one on the Padres said anything of the sort. They would trade him for an old jock strap if someone would stupidly take in his horrible contract or even 80% of it.
deweybelongsinthehall
He may never have been worth the deal he signed (at a time when SD was throwing money around like buying properties in Monopoly) but it seems many teams are nearsighted looking only at the most recent season.
websoulsurfer
Cronenworth had just put up 4.4 WAR and 4.1 WAR in 2021 and 2022 respectively. The deal was signed after the 2022 season and before the 2023 season started. When he signed the extension that starts in 2024 Cronenworth was definitely worth the money.
Why people are talking about his contract being bad when it hasn’t started yet is beyond me. All these people that think they are freaking Nostradamus.
Lets talk about his contract after he actually plays a season under it.
sirchaseph
Dude, second this completely. The Cronenworth talk from the “experts” is so stupid. He had one off year, which really wasn’t that bad of a year, and now people want him traded or DFA’d. Just shut up and let him play, he’ll bounce back.
Baseball fans drive me crazy.
El Niño
I don’t think *teams* are so nearsighted as much as dopes on this site and prognosticators begging for clicks. Crone will be fine – he had a down year.
619MetroFriars
Well said bud. Spot on.
JackStrawb
It’s hilarious, really. “He’s only 30. He’s only declined every season since he got to the bigs. He’ll get it going any day now!”
—Everyone who doesn’t understand the aging and injury curves.
El Niño
Back to back 4-war, all star seasons. “Declining every season” is pretty rich.
dankyank
Cronenworth made $4.225 million last season. An arbitrator would not have awarded him $9 million for a single win above replacement.
The team is already in cutting mode and Eguy Rosario looks like the better player. Trading the overpriced underperformer is a logical move.
websoulsurfer
An arbitrator would have awarded a small increase in salary. Before the extension was signed, he was expected to make around $7 million in arbitration or exactly what he will make in 2024.
I am always amazed by morons that say a contract is bad before it even starts. Cronenworth’s deal starts in 2024.
He averaged 3.5 WAR from 2021 to 2023 and that includes a poor 2023. If he returns to 2022 form he will be a bargain. Even if he just plays at his career average he will be above league average and provide surplus value.
Rosario is no where near a 4 WAR player. He is a utility player at best.
For the 1st commenter, Cronenworth won’t hit 3rd. Most likely 5th or 6th.
dankyank
Again, he’s making $9 million in 2024. Arbitration salaries are determined by the most recent season so even a $2 assuming a million raise, which would leave his salary under $6.5 million, is questionable. Year 1 of the contract is overpriced. End of discussion.
Beyond that, the Padres have a surplus of middle infielders, forcing him to play out of position. The team is pushing him to hit for the power that’s never been his strong suit and the overall output is cratering.
I think Cronenworth would provide LH balance to the Blue Jays lineup and his contact oriented approach is tailor made for the 2 hole in a lineup.
truthlemonade
Cronenworth will have a much harder time reaching 3.5 WAR while primarily playing 1b.
websoulsurfer
Cronenworth is making $7. million in 2024.
Jake Cronenworth 1b
7 years/$80M (2024-30)
7 years/$80M (2024-30)
signed extension with San Diego 4/1/23
$2M signing bonus
24:$7M, 25:$11M, 26-30:$12M annually
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl…
Arbitration salaries are based on the last 3 seasons and weighted for the previous season and he was guaranteed a raise from 2023 no matter what his performance was. The choice is for the team to non-tender or see the player get a raise.
The TEAM was not pushing him to hit for power. Listen to interviews with him. He felt that since he was at 1B he needed to hit for more power. That is on Jake to a point. That his manager and “offensive coordinator didn’t talk to him about it prior to the season and during the season is their failure.
Cronenworth will provide LH balance to a Padres lineup that is missing 2 LH bats now.
vpsd
No, he’s under contract for 7m.
Javia135
It’s funny how nobody seems to know the basic WAR formula when talking about contracts. What is 1-WAR worth per year in free agency? $8 million. Per season. Cronenworth’s average salary is paying him for 1.25 WAR per year or so. Drastic overpay? Horrific contract? Not even close.
vpsd
It’s more like 8.5 or 9 and its only going up every year over the course of this deal
dankyank
By all means, please name a single GM who pays for WAR at a rate of $8 million per.
Aaron Judge was worth over 10 wins above replacement in 2022 and got a contract with a $40 million AAV. Kyle Farmer was worth 1.6 WAR last season and is being shopped to save under $7 million.
Any team valuing wins at that rate deserves to spend years in luxury tax hell.
Superstar Prospect Wander Javier
Aaron Judge was paid $360mil over 9 years. So if 1 WAR is valued at $8mil, he would have to gain 45 WAR over the next 9 years – a rate 5 WAR a year. We all know he will not be able to do this even if he remains healthy as his play will be declining. So yes, he was paid more than $8mil per WAR.
To take one season, an outlier season, and extrapolate that to a players value over the course of their career is exactly what I would expect from someone claiming Cronenworth is overpaid because of one bad year.
vpsd
You think Aaron Judge is going to produce an average of 10 war per year over the course of his deal? Lol. You pay for the production in the front of the contract, but over the course of the entire thing it evens out.
websoulsurfer
The value is based on FA signings that season. A point of BR WAR was worth $9.25 million for 2023. That number will go up in 2024 after record deals for Ohtani and Yamamoto.
In 2023 Cronenworth made $4 million and change. Even at 1 WAR he was a bargain.
In 2024 he will make $7 million, so if he repeats 2023 he will still provide surplus value. If he reverts to his 2021-2022 numbers he will be a huge bargain.
Longtimecoming
LAD – yam 325 total for 0.0 WAR. Glasnow – 25 mil for about 1 WAR.
dankyank
The about face is amusing but inaccurate.
The dominant argument last season was that Judge used a historic platform year to secure an excessive AAV. The argument has now flipped, with zero documentation, to claim that 5 WAR per season was priced in all along.
Trout was yet another player, worth 10 WAR in 2018, who signed a contract with a $37.1 million AAV annual value. Ohtani’s contract has a present day value of $45 million per season, based on over 28 WAR from 2021 to 2023. Kyle Farmer and his 1.6 are being shopped around to save less than $7 million.
The math pretty clear shows $8 million per win has never been paid.
The Brewers went to arbitration over $700k with Corbin Burnes because the higher award would significantly increase his career earnings. Quite obviously the compounding effect of $1 million for Cronenworth would have a larger compounding effect.
And yes, the Padres are paying him a total of $9.285 million with signing bonus, which is included in the AAV for luxury tax purposes.
Longtimecoming
Never paid 8 mil per win?
Huh? What about Glasnow? What about Yam?
You are using examples which are accurate but they don’t eliminate other examples and just because you have some, you can’t say “never” anymore than I can say “always”.
dankyank
My response would be to look at how Glasnow was touted as a potential Cy Young award winner when the Rays extended him. This year the tenth best pitcher finished with 4.1 WAR, which gives you an idea just how much surplus value was expecting to collect off a $25 million salary.
Plus, they bought out all 3 arbitration years at was a perceived massive discount at the time? Did the contract work out? No. Still doesn’t change expectations at the time.
Longtimecoming
All of that may be – just saying they paid 25 mil for about 1 WAR.
dankyank
You can’t even say that. The $25 million salary is for 2024.
Longtimecoming
They traded for him and are paying for him – and 30 for the next year and no way he has 4+ WAR in 2024 then if you want to play it that way.
I’m saying LAD elected to pay Glasnow 25 m and he has a little over 1 WAR.
“What GM pays 8 mil for 1 War” – you said that so I answered you.
LAD.
And 27.5 for 0.0 WAR for Yam.
Just accept it – when you talk in absolutes “always and nevers”, you open yourself up to the exceptions.
websoulsurfer
Judge provided $41.625 million in value in 2023 based on the value of a point of WAR for FA in 2023. He earned his money.
He AVERAGED 7.2 WAR the 5 previous full seasons before signing that contract. About a $60 million value per season.
So not sure WTH you are talking about.
websoulsurfer
Glasnow was extended for 2/30 because he was considered an extreme injury risk, not because he was thought to be a Cy Young candidate. He was paid $5 million in that first season of the extension because no one thought he could make more than about 20 starts. They were right.
dankyank
Great. I made the case for platform years in an earlier post. Judge produced 10 WAR in 2022 and is receiving $40 million annually. Ohtani’s contract has a present day value of $45 million, based off another 10 WAR.
You criticize stoners and can’t even apply your own argument because it proves even $5 million per win is an overpay.
You’re just a miserable jamoke. Nothing more.
dankyank
For starters, your non-existent short term memory.
‘$$ per point of WAR is determined by what the FA were signed for and their performance the previous season before signing.”
Direct quote from your second to last post
dankyank
Your ability to do simple division is non -existent.
Spotrac places the AAV of Judge’s contract for the luxury tax at $40 million. To use your exact words “$$ per point of WAR is determined by what the FA were signed for and their performance the previous season before signing”, not 2023, as you then claimed in your last post.
But even if we were to leave aside your own argument and pivot to a 3 year average, that still leaves a single win at under $6 million.
Ohtani just signed a contract with a present day AAV of $45 million after a 10 WAR.
Maybe you think Judge was a more highly prized free agent than Judge; I don’t.
dankyank
Let’s start with the topic of your short term memory loss.
“$$ per point of WAR is determined by what the FA were signed for and their performance the previous season before signing.”
Direct quote from your second to last post. You’re contradicting yourself left and right, discarding arguments as they become inconvenient.
Brew88
Very old news
truthlemonade
Why is 1b/DH the plan for Cronenworth in 2024? I think it is more like 1b/2b.
In 2023, Cronenworth played 35 games at 2b, with 30 starts. He has played 2 games in his career at DH. I think we will see more Machado an Bogaerts at DH with Cronenworth playing more 2b and SS, and Kim playing more SS and 3b when needed. Putting Cronenworth around the infield preserves his value, playing him at DH makes him even less valuable.
Brew’88
There is zero plan for Cronz to DH, he’s too great a fielder. Bad article making insane suggestions pulled from the netherlands of thy bttocks
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Brew: Netherlands of thy buttocks earns +1
websoulsurfer
Machado will not play 3B to start the season, so Cronenworth might start the season at 2B. After that its
Machado – 3B
Bogaerts – SS
Kim – 2B
Cronenworth – 1B
DH will more than likely be someone like Cooper who can also play a little at other positions like 1B.
Cronenworth will never play SS. Bogaerts will play there regularly at least for the next 3-4 seasons.
Jaysfansince92
I feel like he is wasted at 1b/DH. Based on his defensive numbers from previous years he handled more premium positions well enough and his bat plays better there. I wouldn’t be surprised if the position change had something to do with his offensive struggles. Switching to a new position has messed with other hitters in the past.
Joel P
Exactly Jays couldn’t agree more. Cronenworths value is as a 2b not a 1b. And the Jays could use help at 2b. The money would have to be worked out but people acting like 2023 Cronenworth is who he is that’s kind of dumb.
JoeBrady
but people acting like 2023 Cronenworth is who he is that’s kind of dumb.
====================
Spot on correct. The fans in here over-react to everything. No one and no team is as good as they look when they are winning, and not team or player is as bad as they look when they are losing.
But no one is trading for that contract.
websoulsurfer
The Padres moved him to 1B because they had better options at 2B and there was no one available on the FA or trade markets that was better than he ended up being at 1B.
Jays would have to move someone off position if they traded for Cronenworth.
Simm
That and he played it well the few times he had played it in prior years.
vpsd
Crone will not DH lol. I bet he gets over 50% of his at bats at 2b this year, with Machado DH’ing to start the year, and bogaerts probably getting ~ 10 dh days.
Jaysfansince92
Unless they trade Kim I don’t see how Croensworth gets that much time at 2B.
vpsd
Machado had elbow surgery and will need to DH to start the season. That shifts Kim to 3B.
Then, any rest/dh days for Bogaerts/Manny/Kim beyond that would see crone at 2b.
websoulsurfer
Kim will get the majority of the early part of the season at 3B while Machado is recovering from his offseason surgery. At least a month. Possibly 2 months.
For that month Cronenworth might play 1B.
Brew’88
I think you mean Cronz will play 2B while Kim is at 3B
websoulsurfer
Yes, that is what I meant Cronenworth might play 2B while Kim is at 3B and Machado at DH to start the season.
bleedingblue1996
Yeah they need Cronenworth out of 1st base. All
Of his value was tied into defense and being an above average hitting second baseman.
websoulsurfer
The majority of his value was tied to offense.
baseball-reference.com/players/c/croneja01.shtml#b…
Roll
which since his rookie shortened season has gotten slightly worse each year and his strikeouts have grown each year and not as much power. While i think last year’s big drop is a bit much but he has been trending down.
JoeBrady
His HR/FB% of 6.8% feels artificially low. But his EV has dropped 3 straight years, which is unusual and troublesome.
And he is almost 3 0. That’s older than prime, but not usually considered a serious decline year. But everyone ages differently.
THEY LIVE!!!
Moving bodies for bodies.
FanOfTheUmpires
The good news is that even though he’s still owed $78,000,000, only 1 penny is owed to him up front while $77,999,999.99 is deferred.
VinScullysSon
You just made the same dumb joke on the previous article. Get some new material. Even if it wasn’t already a tired joke, why post it multiple times.
FanOfTheUmpires
The good thing is that any negative response to you has been deferred.
Rking
He only is allowed one joke per post,the rest are deferred to future articles.
deepfryar
uh oh, is some moron dodger dog all sad that their team way overpaid for one player and then way overpaid for a minor league pitcher?!
VinScullysSon
Sad? Are you kidding. I’m deliriously happy. Hate all you want, my team does what it takes to invest in the team. If your team got these same two players I’m sure you’d describe them much differently. I am sad that I have to see jokes run into the ground, even the rash can jokes got so old and I hate the Astros. I just want fresh humor.
King Donk of Punchstania
The astros trash can jokes went on til.. well some trolls still try to make jokes about it. Expect the same from the Ohtani situation
Eatdust666
The same already happened from the Ohtani situation.
Joel P
Really a good fit for the Jays when you think about it. They need lefty bats. They need a 2b. They have money. I don’t know what a fair trade would be would have to think about it but yeah makes a lot of sense for sure.
619MetroFriars
He’s staying a Friar buddy. Eat some more maple syrup or something.
deepfryar
does maple syrup get you drunk or high? i’m
confused about this jab lol
TrumboRedux
Only if you sniff it really hard.
Javia135
Yeah. Unfortunately the real Canadian stuff is too thick to inject and doesn’t burn well.
Jaysfansince92
I’m pretty sure Joel is neither Canadian or a Jays fan. Also very original with the maple syrup joke. If you are going to try to rip on Canadians at least try to show some creativity.
Brew’88
@Joel P. Yeah, really good fit for any team, which is why the Pads want to keep him
Canuckleball
The Jays have Biggio, a poor hitting, left handed second basemen who doesn’t cost 80 million. Not really a fit at all. They were definitely only taking him in a Soto deal.
Joel P
Both Biggio and Cronenworth can play multiple positions. I am not saying he’s worth that contract or has positive trade value. But he makes sense for the Jays roster. He’s not all that different from Merrifield.
JoeBrady
He’s not all that different from Merrifield.
=======================
But more to the point, he’s not that much different than Biggio.
Player A-.229/.312/.378/.689, .47 BB/K, 87.3 EV
Player B-.235/.340/.370/.710, .45 BB/K, 88.4 EV
Cro might be the better player, maybe, But Biggio is way, way cheaper in the long-run.
Joel P
Having Biggio doesn’t mean you don’t need Cronenworth.
websoulsurfer
Player A – 92 OPS+. 4.5 WAR
Player B – 109 OPS+. 9.9 WAR
Player C – 92 OPS+. 2.0 WAR
Pretty easy choice, even when you know B will make $7 million and C will make $3.7 million.
Joel P
It’s not an either or situation. You don’t have to choose one or the other.
Andrew-UK
Or a Tatis Jr deal?
Canuckleball
Maybe, except Tatis is a righty bat, while the Jays are trying to get lefties. Also, with his massive contract, injury/ped history and his not very special offense last year, that would be 2 potential underwater type contracts to take on.
Deleted Userr
The Padres aren’t trading Tatis.
dankyank
Cronenworth still has outstanding contact skills. The problem is he’s being encouraged to sell out for power and provide prototypical first baseman production. He could be a great fit as a two hitter in the Blue Jays lineup, balancing out the righties.
vpsd
Crone had figured it back out in the second half, before he broke his wrist
Brew’88
He has since abandoned the attempt at more power by leveling up his swing again, and ironically that’s giving him more power.
websoulsurfer
He hit .260 with a .753 OPS and 105 OPS+ from July 1 through until the HBP broke his wrist on August 25th
Big whiffa
Jays could send biggio back to padres. One for one w jays taking on cronworth salary. He seems likely to bounce back
Canuckleball
Certainly makes sense, but if Crony doesn’t bounce back, they’ll have traded for a much more expensive Biggio. Seems too risky
Joel P
Nobody here thinks Cronenworth has positive trade value. Stop assuming they do canuck.
Canuckleball
Little confused never said he did. I said he was only coming to the Jays with Soto, Like the article suggested.
I assumed in the above Biggio for Crony trade that the Pads will still pay the lions share of his contract.
Didn’t put that in the earlier post
Joel P
If that’s what you assumed then why did you just say he would be a more expensive Biggio?
Raysasineppswasplanted
But at least we now know what a Cronen’s worth…
Jaysfansince92
Biggio is still pretty cheap. The Padres could take on a fair bit of the contract without him becoming cheaper than Biggio.
Canuckleball
I didn’t assume they’d pay it all down. I assumed The Jays would get stuck paying more for him than for biggio, making him more expensive.
Joel P
Biggio is pre arb. By the literal definition he’s underpaid. So if Cronenworth is a little more expensive than Biggio why is that a bad thing?
Canuckleball
As I already said, there’s a possibility that if Crony doesn’t rebound, he ends up offering the same value as Biggio moving forward. In that case the Jays would be stuck paying more for the same player.
Jaysfansince92
It isn’t a problem as long as he plays better than Biggio. I would guess that he would be better; so I wouldn’t be too upset if they acquired him.
Javia135
1-Kroner
Joel P
And like I said there is nothing wrong with paying more than an arbitration eligible player since arbitration eligible players are underpaid.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I don’t think ALL arbitration eligible players are underpaid. Arbitration salaries always go up, so if you’ve had a middling season it normally doesn’t result in a lower salary. You could have a breakout season in Year One, get paid more in arb for Year 2, have a meh season in Year 2, but you will still get a bump in Year 3 arb salary, and then have an even worse year in Year 3 but you’re still getting paid based on your outstanding performance in Year One. But now you just suck.
JoeBrady
why did you just say he would be a more expensive Biggio?
============================
He is saying that they would get Biggio’s output, but a much higher price tag (similar to what I said).
THEY LIVE!!!
Nobody needs a punch & Judy 1B…
Croneworth is marginally better than Eric Hosmer.
619MetroFriars
Crone is a recent two time All Star
99socalfrc
At second base…
Jaysfansince92
As I mentioned above he is wasted at 1B. I really don’t understand why they spent all that money on Xander when they could have gotten a slugger at 1B for much cheaper and left Croensworth at 2B and Kim at SS.
Habitual Truth Teller
If Kim isn’t gonna sign an extension Padres should trade him and move Cronenworth back to 2B
Now that they missed out on Lee Padres should deal Kim for cost controlled outfield help to replace Grisham or Soto. Since he can play 2B or SS at an elite level plus above average bat I’m sure he will have many suitors.
Red Sox seem like a good trade partner with Abreu Duran Rafaela
vpsd
Rafaela for Kim makes sense. I don’t think they’re going to move him though.
websoulsurfer
Doesn’t matter if he isn’t going to sign an extension. Machado will not be playing 3B to start the season and there are always injuries during a long season. The Padres NEED Kim if they are going to contend. Worry about an extension later or at the end of the season. He won’t be asking for $600 million like Soto.
Instead of worrying about his extension, trade for Robert or Arozarena. Cost controlled for 2-3 years and proven performers.
Padres don’t really need more prospects. They have 6 top 100 prospects today and 18 in top 250. They are both great at the top and deep. If they sign DeVries as expected on January 15th that number of top prospects just goes up.
What the Padres need are proven performers they can slot in next to Machado, Bogaerts, Tatis, Cronenworth, and Kim.
vpsd
LDV is a done deal. He should be a top 25 prospect day 1
Javia135
@web
The Padres currently have a starting infield of Machado, Bogaerts, Kim(playing out of position) and Cronenworth(playing out of position). They also have a ready for MLB, top 10 in MLB SS prospect who could use a year as a backup to learn the ropes and fill in at 3B while Machado is injured.
If the Padres trade Kim, not only can he go back to his natural position but so can Crone. That would improve both of Crone’s offense and defense, along with leaving 1B open for a power threat add. Seems perfect actually.
Brew’88
Merrill is 20 and also needs consistent ABs so I’m not sure the Pads would relegate him to back up on ML team. He’s more likely to get called up mid-season. Batten/Eguy are most likely to start season as back ups in IF
Javia135
Playing 3B for a couple of months should get him consistent ABs. The Padres also don’t currently have a DH. There are plenty of ABs to go around for the Padres in 2024. Either way, Kim is not NEEDED like web says. It also solves their playing out of position problem.
Brew’88
Kim will primarily play 3B while Manny is DH, he was as much at 3B as SS in Korea. Eguy Rosario also a very good backup 3B option, with his gun of an arm. So I doubt they would use Merrrill at 3B – he has no pro experience there that I know of,and that would be an ill-advised way to initiate him into the bigs. They are giving him reps in OF though, so that’s a slight possibility. I will agree however that if anyone should be traded on the position roster of the Pads, it makes most sense that it’s Kim. I’m about 95% sure they won’t trade him though this offseason. Merrill has a higher probability of being traded, given his much higher trade value. that would be a mistake, just like trading away Abrams was a mistake.
Simm
They may just stick Merrill in left field they needed more lefty bats.
padrepapi
I hope they trade Kim over Merrill if they were to move one of them. A plus hitting middle infielder, that hits from the left side of the plate and will cost around 2.5m over these next 4 years (figuring 2-3 mo’s in AAA in ’24) is a much better fit for this team than Kim.
The hate on Cronenworth is perplexing and I hope the Padres aren’t hell bent on trading him if it means paying a lot of the tab down the road or including valuable talent to facilitate the trade.
Kim is expected to get around 20m/yr when he hits free agency. So the total cost could be close to twice what they owe Cronenworth… the link below is their stats these past three years which include a down year from each. We don’t need a SS and Croney is a good defensive 2b on his own, just not elite like Kim. He has the better bat though and is a lefty. Basically I think it’s likely that Cronenworth fits this team better now and in the future than Kim and will be a lot cheaper.
stathead.com/tiny/IXc3w
I like Eguy Rosario enough to give a month of games at 3b to start the season so I’m not keeping Kim based on that nor 2 games in South Korea. Who knows what teams offer up for him, but if it’s a nice deal, make it.
Brew’88
well said papi. $20M/yr for Kim seems insane, but you’re probably right. I wonder where he’ll go…
padrepapi
As a FA I would put the top landing spots for Kim as SF, Bos, Tor, or LAD.
Somewhere in the 5/90 to 7/150 range depending on his bat in 2024. He hit a huge slump his last 40 games so if he has a better year I think he could get a 6 or 7 year deal worth around 130-150m.
One of Preller’s better free agent signings. Getting a 4 or 5 win player for 7m AAV… not easy to do.
websoulsurfer
Merrill played in AA last season and it’s a possibility he can make it in the majors, but not a certainty. He has never played a single game at 3B at any level. MLB is not a good place to start.
Kim will be playing 3B that first month because he is a better 3B than Cronenworth or Merrill or any other possibility.
Cronenworth’s value has been mainly on offense. from 2021-2023 he has 9.5 oWAR and 0.8 dWAR. As long as he hits well, he will maintain most of that value at 1B. The question is not about him playing 2B, it is who is better than him at 1B in the FA or trade market. Last offseason there was no one. Is there now? One that costs as much or less than Cronenworth? If not, he should keep playing 1B for the Padres.
websoulsurfer
Kim is a proven MLB commodity and a better player than Lee who just got 6/113. He will certainly get more than that.
7-8 years and $150-180 million is certainly what he will be worth in FA.
TrumboRedux
Mark P, hope you get plenty of your Bee’s & Beads for Xmas buddy!
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
Haha
DonOsbourne
He may be one of the few lefthanded bats on the roster, but that doesn’t make him one of the few lefthanded bats on the planet. They could easily pay someone the league minimum who would be willing to stand in the lefthand batters box and make outs. They should move this contract for anything they can get. He is one of the most easily replaced players in all of baseball and the most glaring example of why Preller deserved to be fired.
padrepapi
Dumb take…. Cronenworth has over 2000 career PA’s along with a 111 OPS+. He hits lefties well enough to not be a platoon player and he is a rare lefty bat that likes hitting at Petco. His 21 3b’s since 2020 lead the NL and trail only 2 other big leaguers.
The dumping on Croney is kind of nuts and I think very unwarranted!
GRE
To sum this up, ShapieRo and his carry on baggage useless Atkins have still only signed a AAA catcher to a minor league contract,,,,December 23rd…WOW
29 other MLB teams have gotten” better…..
deepfryar
MLBTR speculation is often crap as they don’t have much care concern or knowledge about the Padres. These guys are usually days or even weeks late reporting moves. The padres are not engaging in a fire sale and would only trade Jake if the return made the team better. Carpenter was terrible and an obvious way to save money, to some elsewhere. No mention of Matsui, but doesn’t that show that Preller is working with a budget but still working?!
deepfryar
spend elsewhere no some elsewhere
Big whiffa
I think there’s a lot of information out there suggesting they’ll still cut payroll. I do agree to the extent they are bashing cronworth, but that’s also just the media and there what have u done lately mentally. If jays are willing to take on his salary- bet they dump him
Jaysfansince92
They are just reporting it now because the information just became available. It is still relevant because it gives some insight into both the Padres and Blue Jays strategies.
llokokokok
This information isn’t relevant because its old and the strategy is differen. The contract would have only been attached to Soto. Now that’s over Cronenworth won’t be traded at his lowest value. It would be relevant if we knew he was part of Soto trade before Soto was traded.
TrumboRedux
“The Godfather” Machado runs everything in SD. Only way to get real info is to go through one of his Capos. Talk to El Niño!
GSWfanklay
He seems basically un tradable
Deleted Userr
Well they did trade Hosmer…
websoulsurfer
Blue Jays denied they ever discussed a trade for Cronenworth. I wonder if Rosenthal will retract his statement?
deepfryar
rosenthal makes a lot of crap up mlbtr makes him seem knowledgeable by repeating his made up crap!
DonOsbourne
It would be embarrassing to admit to.
JoeBrady
Blue Jays denied they ever discussed a trade for Cronenworth.
=========================
Which makes sense. There isn’t enough separation between him and Biggio to warrant that type of investment.
jgaepi
How is there no current news on the Padres? Dodgers cheated their way into every signing this offseason. Can’t Preller or the other 28 GMs sign a few people already?
dankyank
A change of scenery could do wonders for Cronenworth. A peak behind the slash line shows he’s been selling out for power in the last two seasons as his pull and swing rate have increased dramatically. When his strength has always been making contact, this leads me to believe he’s received poor coaching- and would explain why at least one Padre struggled with runners on base.
The Blue Jays need a left handed bat. He would slot nicely into the 2 spot in their lineup.
bestone
Zzzzzzzz…..must be hard to scrape up stories this year…
desertdawg
I’ve read where they would like to get down to between 175,000 and 190,000 if possible, for payroll in 2024, so if they can’t do it by the start of this season, they will be really active in deals to unload payroll at the trade deadline in July. The article was also stating that this might be just a starting point and in 2025 season get it down to around the 140,000 to maybe 155,000. Depending on what tv and radio package they can agree on.
vpsd
That is not what you read lol.
They’re at 150ish in actual payroll right now and have around 35m to spend before they hit the luxury tax threshold.
Moving cronenworth is about not playing him out of position, and clearing a path for a top 10 prospect in merrill in the infield. They don’t need to clear any more payroll.
Javia135
Padres current payroll is projected at $152 million for 2024. I believe that is less than $175 million, but I could be wrong.
I have also heard that the Padres “wanted to drop below $200 million payroll.” Nowhere have I seen $190 million or $175 million mentioned. Can I get a source for that?
vpsd
There’s a recent athletic article from LIn talking about payroll. All offseason, their goal has been around 200m in actual payrol (not CBT payroll), and the article said they would may get under the Luxury Tax threshold, which would leave them around 35M to spend from here.
So if they spend right up to the CBT threshold, that’d be a bit under 190 actual payroll.
Here’s what a team source said re: payroll –
“Other team officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, have suggested the Padres could end up going slightly above the luxury tax threshold if a particularly attractive opportunity presents itself later this offseason. “
websoulsurfer
That Lin article said “people familiar with the Padres thinking” said they preferred to get under the CBT threshold.
As you pointed out, the only team officials quotes said the Padres were willing to go over the CBT as well.
Kutsenda didn’t respond to their questions. Probably because it’s the ONLY question he gets, and it has been answered already.
websoulsurfer
Their CBT payroll was $202 million prior to the Matsui signing.
The actual payroll was $147.6 million.
We have heard writers said that they MIGHT like to get under $200 million and PREFER to dip under the CBT threshold, but the ONLY thing we have heard from the Padres ownership, FO, and manager is that they will continue to spend to “put a championship level team on the field”. We have heard no dollar figure mentioned.
At this point actually coming out and saying they are cutting payroll would not hurt in ticket sales. Season tickets are sold out and the only single game tickets available are mid-week. All premium games are sold out already for the entire season.
It might have a minor effect on sales of the single-team MLB.tv packages, but not much. TV is already in place and they will still be on COX, Spectrum, AT&T, DIRECTV, and FUBO in San Diego and on Spectrum in Hawaii. That won’t change.
Telling fans that they needed to cut payroll would not hurt revenue in 2024. Plus, Padres fans are used to the team having to keep payroll down. We still show up regardless.
So it they were really cutting payroll, it would not change anything. That leads me to believe that they are not going to cut payroll much, but if they can somehow stay under the CBT threshold they will do so to reset it.
websoulsurfer
No you haven’t. You have read that they MIGHT want to get down to $200 million and they PREFER to get under the CBT threshold but MIGHT NOT do that either.
No article EVER has said the Padres are trying to get down to $140-155 million. At least not for many years.
Padres are going to spend what it takes to put a championship level team on the field. Every single person that has been quoted from the team has said the exact same thing.
The Padres are a revenue sharing payor now, meaning they have revenue above $440 million. They can easily afford a $220-250 million payroll.
The Padres already agreed to a TV deal with each individual cable, satellite, and streaming provider and were back on the air one day after DSG defaulted. They also increased their market by 2 million TV households. THEN add on top of that the Padres getting to sell MLB.tv single team packages with no local blackout. They sold between 250k and 300k of those at $19.99/mo.
I can add more facts from the DSG bankruptcy case and info from interviews, but suffice to say the Padres didn’t lose any money from DSG going bankrupt.
truthlemonade
A) Signing Bogaerts and extending Cronenworth were completely unnecessary, but they happened and here we are.
B) I am optimistic that Cronenworth can have a better year, he was much better in July and August of 2023 before getting hurt.
C) Can Cronenworth play 3b? He has exactly 1 inning of MLB defense at 3b. Maybe he just wasn’t put there for no particular reason.
Brew88
He can field 3b, but arm not strong and he doesn’t have experience there. He’s best at 2b and SS. Mlbtr wrong to suggest Cronz would ever be considered by Toronto as potential help at 3b
Javia135
Crone is a former 2-way player with a mid 90s FB. I agree that he is far better at 2B.
Brew’88
Pitching velo and 3B arm strength can vary quite a bit, but my main point is that Cronz doesn’t have a lot of reps at 3B, and why put him there (or Merrill) when they’d be out of position, and why do so when Kim (then Manny in May) are on the team?
Simm
He doesn’t have reps there because manny plays everyday and he has been playing first or 2b. With Kim rotating around. He could play third but he isn’t the type of hitter you want at third or first for that matter.
Brew’88
Right, 3B needs to be a slugger, or elite defensively (Kim)
Simm
Dude threw 96 at Michigan, his arm is fine.
Brew’88
They need pitching!
websoulsurfer
You have never been able to explain why you think signing Bogaerts was unnecessary.
Bogaerts is an elite bat and was better than Kim overall in both 2021 and 2022. The Padres needed another bat because they had no idea how well or poorly Tatis would do returning from 18 months off of baseball.
His signing was a good one. He was one of the top 6 SS and provided surplus value in 2023 and he will continue to do so for more than half of his contract.
Cronenworth was coming off 4.4 WAR and 4.1 WAR seasons in 2021 and 2022 respectively when he signed the deal at the end of spring training 2023. When he signed it the Padres were locking him up so that they didn’t have to go to arbitration in 2024 and so they had their core locked up for the long term. The extension doesn’t start until 2024.
Cronenworth won’t play 3B. Machado will as long as he is able. As long as Kim is on the team he will man 3B when Machado is either recovering from his surgery or needs a day off.
truthlemonade
I am a Padres fan.
Sure, Bogaerts was a contributor in 2023, and will for some years. But the length and the amount of that contract stunned most observers. And there really was no need for a shortstop in SD with Kim, Cronenworth, and yeah sure Tatis on the team. Even you say he will be valuable for over half of his contract which really does prove my point that signing Bogaerts was unnecessary. With both Machado and Bogaerts signed to their 41st birthdays, signing Bogaerts looks like a regret waiting to happen.
SD really does not need Bogaerts. If SD could trade all of his contract for a fringe prospect, that really could help the team as SD could then just move Kim to SS, Cronenworth to 2b, we have others who can play 1b, and then probably resign Blake Snell, possibly even could have retained Juan Soto.
websoulsurfer
So did Ohtani. So did Yamamoto. So did Turner. So did Judge.
Kim was NOT a good bat and Bogaerts was significantly better overall in 2021-2022.
The Padres needed a big bat. Kim wasn’t it. Cronenworth wasn’t it.
Kim is a FA after 2024 and he will get a huge contract. 7/150 is at the low end of the range he will sign for if he is able to repeat his 2023.
Saying Bogaerts will provide surplus value for more than half of his contract invalidates your point completely.
Trading Bogaerts and his 4.4 to 5+ WAR for fringe prospects would be monumentally stupid.
Cronenworth doesn’t provide great value on defense. His value has come almost entirely from offense. baseball-reference.com/players/c/croneja01.shtml#b… Look at his oWAR vs dWAR. Playing at 1B doesn’t change that and there are just not many 1B available in FA or trade that are better than he is.
This site projected that Snell was going to sign for $30 million AAV and $2oo million. Considering what Yamamoto signed for, it could be much more than that.
Soto turned down over $500 million and is looking for in excess of $600 million. Unfortunately, he was never an option for the Padres.
Bogaerts signing did not impact the Padres keeping either of them.
The Padres M.O. has been to trade for TOR pitching, not sign it in FA. Clevinger, Snell, Darvish, and Musgrove. It is far more likely they trade for the Snell replacement.
Luzardo? Cease? Both will cost less than $10 million in 2024, have multiple years of control, and are younger than Snell so unlikely to be in decline. That is the kind of move that Preller is known for. Not signing a $30 million AAV pitcher on the downside of 30.
Deleted Userr
Grisham wasn’t included in the Soto trade to “offset salary.” Players who are still in arb can’t be traded to offset salary. If the Padres wanted to dump Grisham they would have non-tendered him. The Yankees are the ones who wanted Grisham included in the trade.
Simm
They stated they tendered him because teams were calling to trade for him.
Of course none of these writers can see passed cutting payroll to even write an accurate article.
Deleted Userr
Exactly. The Yankees wanted to trade for him. They don’t give up those 5 dudes for just Soto without Grisham. If they would have, the Padres would have done that and then traded Grisham to someone else for whatever the heck.
vpsd
ZiPS projections for Cronenworth as a Full time 2b in 2024 – 2.8 fwar
Total Projected War for Cronenworth as a 2B during his 7 year contract – 11fwar
Certainly is risk with Crone, but the projections say he’s got 20M+ in surplus value if he’s moved back to 2b.
Joel P
While I think Cronenworth is a good fit for the Jays as the article mentions the Padres are getting short on lefty bats.
It makes sense to trade Cronenworth to a team that can use him at 2b his best position. That part makes sense. But I don’t know if there is a deal to be made here.
its_happening
Jays need a 3B more than they do a 2B. Biggio/Schnieder implode, Orelvis is called up. Or Horowitz. All play 2B, none play 3B well defensively. Cronenworth is a waste unless he’s asked to be the 3B option.
Joel P
Martinez has over 4 times more experience playing 3b than he does 2b. Barger has twice as much experience at 3b than 2b.
its_happening
Orelvis cannot play 3B. There is a reason the Jays aren’t playing him at 3B in the minors. Re-check your facts:
Orelvis has played 917 innings in his career with a crisp .919 fielding percentage at 3B. Barger 721 innings with a .910 fielding percentage and his bat didn’t perform well in AAA to gain a callup.
Your point is moot here.
Joel P
If Martinez can’t play 3b why the heck does he have so much minor league experience there?
Minor league fielding percentage is getting pretty far out there when it comes to reliable stats.
Who would you sign or trade for? I agree a 3b makes more sense but there aren’t a lot of 3b around.
its_happening
Joel, are you seriously justifying .919 and .910? Really? That’s horrendous. Furthermore, if the Jays had faith in these guys at 3B they would play them there every game. Every single game.
Joel P
The perfect fit for the Jays is a lefty hitting 3b on a 1 year deal. But who the heck is that Moustakas?
its_happening
Wrong again. Perfect fit is a good 3B. Stop with the “wE nEEd a lEfty bAt” stuff. Didn’t work in 2023. Get GOOD hitters. If one is left handed, great.
Knowing the Jays they’ll setting on a Gio Urshela. Get a big corner OF bat or two.
Joel P
The Jays were a pretty good team in 2023. If Manoah and Guerrero had performed to their potential they could have been the best team in baseball.
Lineups need balance. There are historical reasons for this.
Do you want to talk with only Jays fans? Maybe you do.
its_happening
Blue Jays lost to an inferior Twins team thanks to poor hitting. They managed to stay healthy on the mound and placed third in their division and barely 6th overall. If this was 10 years ago they miss the playoffs.
Lineup needs hitters. They need to acquire hitters. Do you follow the Jays or just pretend to be a fan when you aren’t truly paying attention?
Joel P
I follow baseball. I am not a Jays fan. If you want to sit here and only talk to Jays fans enjoy yourself. Have a nice day.
Good lord man. What is wrong with you????
its_happening
Nothing wrong here. The real question is why you are talking about things you know nothing about? Like the Jays, and baseball in-general. Have a nice night.
Brew’88
every conversation with Joel P, and his high-conflict behavior, ends immaturely. It’s also possible he’s a young teen on spazz..
Joel P
Like I told him and you both if you want to discuss things with only fans of your own team go for it. Have fun. But acting like a know it all over something you don’t know it all about is lame. Brew88 you said some stupid things in that Soto thread right before he was traded. That’s a fact.
its_happening
I made a false assumption he’s a Jays fan because he makes comments on Jays stories. I guess when he posts a comment he does not expect a conversation exposing what he doesn’t know.
Brew88
I’m a Giants fan Joel. Dont see too many of those here to talk to. But dang, I was enjoying being muted by you.
Brew88
He’s everywhere, not really a fan, just trying to find conflict, immune to embarrassment
Hired Gun 23
He’s a 2nd baseman…
towinagain
Ownership continues to pile coal into Padres fan’s stockings.
Thanks for all the support, Padres fans! We so appreciate you!
Proceeds to trade off a future hall of famer for prospects.
Continues to seek ways to slash payroll.
Barely signs one yes one free agent. If he has even officially signed yet. Who knows?
No sign whatsoever that the Padres are trying to put together a team that will in the very least compete in 2024.
2024 strategy- Let’s play ‘Payroll Limbo’ ‘How low can you go?’
Come on Padres?!
Javia135
“You’re a mean one, mister Grinch.” Antidepressants are widely available.
websoulsurfer
Ownership does? Padres ownership has said only that they will do whatever it takes to put a championship level team on the field.
Padres traded Soto for 4 MLB players and ONE prospect. Were you paying attention?
2/3 of the top 50 FA are still available. No team has signed more than 2 of them. MOST have signed none. Padres have signed one.
Signing a Matsui means they are ADDING payroll.
Lay off the crack.
towinagain
Lay off the Kool Aid.
Eatdust666
Get a load of this loser.
tangerinepony
Because the Bluejays could really use a .250 hitter!!
Bright Side
The discussion went down like this…
SD: Hey, we want to deal Croenworth
TB: click