The Mariners have mostly been subtracting from their roster this winter, though it seems though the next step will be additions. “We did what we needed to do to create the framework from which to build the team we envisioned,” president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto said yesterday, per Ryan Divish of The Seattle Times. “Our goal is to go get better.”
The club’s most significant moves of this winter have each appeared to have a financial motivation. The club declined to make a qualifying offer to Teoscar Hernández. They flipped Eugenio Suárez to the Diamondbacks in a deal that saved them $13MM. They traded Jarred Kelenic, Evan White and Marco Gonzales to Atlanta in a deal that saved them about $25MM. Amid all that, they have seemingly shied away from the Shohei Ohtani bidding.
“I’m not going to ever talk about our budget,” Dipoto told Divish. That’s despite the fact that, just a few days ago, he told Adam Jude of The Seattle Times that the payroll will “very likely” rise relative to 2023. But even if an increase is in store, it’s not likely to be huge. Divish reports that the front office received a smaller budget than anticipated due to uncertainty around the broadcast situation. ROOT Sports NW, the club’s broadcaster, was moved by Xfinity to a higher cable package that costs an extra $20 per month. Due to concerns about decreased viewership, the club will only have a minimal increase compared to last year.
Roster Resource estimates that the club finished 2023 with a budget of $140MM, matching the figure that Divish used in his piece. RR currently has them at $117MM for 2024, perhaps giving them about $25MM to work with.
It seems the priority for that payroll space will be the outfield, a logical target given the losses of Hernández and Kelenic. “We would like to add, I would call it, ‘1½ corner outfielders’ with the half being of someone at least capable of platooning with the idea that Dominic Canzone could fill the other side of it, or Cade Marlowe or Taylor Trammell,” Dipoto said, per Divish. “And then, we would like to find someone who is just a presence, more of a middle-of-the-lineup type, and if that means a primary DH, if it means some part of a corner position and DH, that’s a possibility, but we’d like to add bats that can make our offense better.”
All three of those players named by Dipoto hit from the left side, which would point to a right-handed hitter, in addition to someone who can play every day. The outfield free agent market is headlined by Cody Bellinger, while other options include Hernández, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Jung Hoo Lee and others. However, getting any of those guys would require Dipoto to tread new ground. MLBTR’s Contract Tracker shows that the club hasn’t given any position player a multi-year deal since Dipoto was hired by the Mariners in 2015. AJ Pollock’s one-year, $7MM pact is the largest guarantee given out to a hitter under Dipoto’s watch.
Speaking of Pollock, he’s one of the righty-hitting outfielders available that could take on a platoon role, alongside guys like Whit Merrifield, Adam Duvall and Tommy Pham. Since the club is also open to a primary DH, they could consider someone like J.D. Martinez, Mitch Garver, Rhys Hoskins, Jorge Soler or Justin Turner.
The club could also consider a trade from their starting rotation, with Dipoto telling Jude that the club is fielding many calls about their young arms. But it doesn’t sound like that would be their preference. “We’re always likely to trade. That’s just what we do,” Dipoto said. “Our comfort level in moving any of those [top prospects] wouldn’t be very high. But if we target the right player with another team, and we’re able to access that player, we will consider just about anything.”
Dipoto recently said that the club is less likely to trade from its rotation after the Gonzales deal, but they still might have to consider it given their tight budget. They have a strong front three in Luis Castillo, George Kirby and Logan Gilbert, followed by three exciting youngsters in Bryan Woo, Bryce Miller and Emerson Hancock. There’s also the Robbie Ray factor, as he underwent Tommy John surgery in early May and could rejoin the club in the second half of the season. It’s possible to subtract one name from that mix and still view it as a strong rotation on paper, but injuries are inevitable and clubs are generally loath to give up pitching depth if they can avoid it.
The decisions will undoubtedly come down to myriad factors, from various trade discussions and negotiations with free agents. With the departures of Hernández, Kelenic and Suárez, as well as Mike Ford and Tom Murphy, the club has work to do in replacing that offensive production.
Larry Bernandez 1324IM
46%
TheHighCheese4Me
Not even.
Zippy the Pinhead
The Mariners’ all-time record is 3514-3873, so they’re up to 47.7%. 5 playoffs in 47 seasons is 10.6%. That’s the number to remember.
Dogham
You know if you put a product on the field that made people want to pay the extra $20/month the decrease would be non-existent. People here are STARVING for a winner. Make it so they have no choice but ti watch nightly.
Westside guy
For people like me, it’s not an extra $20/month – it’d be more like an extra $90-100/month. That’s basically what we’ve been saving ever since we dumped cable television completely a couple years ago. Comcast still has our internet business…
Eventually these teams will figure out they need to find a way to make their product available to the cord-cutters because the number of cable tv subscribers is only going to keep decreasing.
Note that Fubo TV isn’t a real solution – it’s the same model as cable tv, to get one channel you have to pay for a bunch you don’t really want…
Chester Copperpot
Westside guy hits the nail on the head.
good vibes only
Yeah for baseball months of the year I’m paying $100/mo for fubo just to get ROOT. It’s ridiculous. ROOT has about half their FAQ section devoted to non-explanatory excuses for why they don’t go OTT (Over The Top) direct to customers. I would pay ROOT anything they wanted as long as it’s less than the cost of getting a full cable package to get it. Or maybe, just maybe, since they own the freaking station, they could sell the stream direct to MLB and end the blackout on MLB.tv. That is ultimately the way things should go with these RSNs rocking a terrible 1990s business model. The team is owned by tech industry billionaires. Figure it out instead of making excuses.
lordadmiralsugartits
They have a plan?
Inside Out
Sell the team to owners who are actually focused on winning not making a profit each year. A baseball team is a growth asset and tax write off with inherent value increases that provide opportunities to leverage for actual business investment. Stop being penny pinchers.
crazybaseballgal
Agree. Businesses need to profit but it’s reasonable to assume they won’t every year and eat a losing season every now and again. There aren’t many Cohen and Seidler’s that will lose big sums because they love baseball and want to win in a big way. But there are better owners than Stanton & Company
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
LOL that picture, Jerry Pretty Fly for a White Guy ..
Braves Butt-Head
Here’s the plan…….. F*** the fans.
bwood
According to one source within the Mariners organization, when the team is ready to go for it, whether that be a year from now or two, money will not be an issue whatsoever. They’re saving.
“We may not surpass $100m this year, but we’ll push the luxury cap limit when it’s time.”
— Joe (@JoeDoyleMiLB) December 22, 2019
lookoutlanding.com/2019/12/26/21035857/mariners-pl…
Stevil
Yeah, from 2019 when they were still rebuilding.
Dipoto himself suggested on several occasions that 2021 would be a year for expectations. Even if you give them a pass for the pandemic, we simply haven’t seen what was promised.
Some people give Jerry a pass, passing the blame to ownership. But I think a lot of fans are tired of hearing the excuses and moving of the goalposts to protect the integrity of the organization.
I’m not upset with what we’ve seen this offseason (yet), but the reasoning is concerning. This is a team that set out a clear course they discussed publicly at the time of the rebuild. They have clearly changed course, and that change started at least two years ago. It’s just more evident now.
I wish Jerry would talk less and just focus on getting this team to a World Series.
bwood
Yes, in 2019 during the rebuild it was expected to only take a couple (21) to few (23) yrs and once that core was in place then spending would increase to supplement the core.
According to Jerry “there are fewer holes to fill, and we have far more answers.”
Here we are in 24 and what do we have?
I see a franchise with massive holes and no answers for them.
3rd, RF, LF and DH.
I think France/Polanco will have a good year if not, holes.
Platoon at 3rd is going to be heartbreaking, Haniger/Garver cant stay off the IL all yr. Raley is unproven.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck it must be a duck.
Seems every year the team starts slow. Whether it be the ever elusive marine layer or just not being ready by the time May hits they are behind in the standings.
Jerry cant afford to wait till the trade deadline to add. It will be too late by then to catch up.
So it all goes back to why is this team not spending now, when adding only takes cash not prospects and players like it will take in season?
Stevil, with camp around the corner what do you think of Jerry’s game of musical chairs?
Stevil
Hey Barry
Things have changed quite a bit since that statement/comment I made. But I agree that the health concerns are significant and I think they need to try to find some long-term answers. They’re probably looking at Polanco as a stop-gap for Young, but there’s a strong argument for another outfielder and first base might be an area where they make a change after this coming season (if not before).
But overall, I think what Justin and Jerry have done considering the restrictions/limitations is pretty amazing. They at least gave themselves a shot even if they’re still short of what I would call true WS contention.
Payroll is between 126 and 132 right now, which I believe is lower than the end-of-season totals. I think they’re the team that might benefit the most from the addition of Cody Bellinger, and payroll would still likely be around 150-155m, which would be well below the MLB average.
Prices go up at the deadline. Jerry himself has said as much. I don’t think they can wait, either. I think they should strike now with a star hitter to solidify the middle-order, get some more SP depth, and see what happens. They’re close. We’ve hear Jerry talk about ‘augmenting the roster with free agents’ many times over. We’re talking about one, big bat right now. If that doesn’t fit his definition, I don’t know what does.
Mekias0
The only way Dipoto can really improve this team is to trade a bunch of their young prospects. Otherwise he’s left digging in the bottom of the bargain bin looking for more reclamation projects and hoping to get lucky. Let’s be honest, those bets haven’t exactly worked out for the M’s recently.
good vibes only
He’s had recent success too. My favorite of all the reclamations – JP – blossomed just this year as a Dude. Jerry is one of the very best at identifying development opportunities and I hope he keeps doing it. It’s just freaking embarrassing that this ownership group isn’t investing alongside all the great stuff Jerry does to maximize value per dollar of payroll. I really hope they can fill these holes without trading any pitchers.
Primitive Screwhead
Just a reminder to everyone: you have until Feb 1st if you want to get a refund on your flex plan.
I’m waiting until then. Honestly, the team just needs a richer owner, not an ownership group that is going to nickel and dime the club. Someone that can tolerate the risk of higher expenditures leading to higher profits by fielding a winning team, instead of being so utterly dependent on the low-risk income from cable.
Frankly disappointing.
MartialArtisan
Frank Lee Disappointing the new Mariner mascot. He’s a tech billionaire with the uniform number $ that passes a donation jar around the stands.
toycannon
First order of business, Jerry. please include yourself in the trade you make. Your welcome has worn out.
Reynaldo
Jerry DiPoto does not dictate his team’s budget. Your frustration and anger are misguided.
ryrockak
Be angry with the owners
good vibes only
Do your homework. Jerry is a big reason we are even within striking distance of competing for a world series. The problem is ownership refusing to invest like they promised.
TheHighCheese4Me
Actually, the people Jerry hired to run the draft are the ones doing the yeoman’s work.
There are more trades than not, that have cost more than the value returned. But, some of that is on ownership.
Most is on Trader J trying to prove he’s the smartest guy in the room.
Bnickles127
I honestly feel awful for anyone who is still optimistic. I have no doubt the mariners can be a .500 team next year but 1 or more rotation injuries and it could be 90 loss season now instead of 90 wins like prior years. They cannot even replace Suarez Teo and Kelenic for $25M if that is their budget
bob9988 2
I have been a fan for 35yrs and I have never felt this deflated before. I’m not even sure I care what they do from here on out. I’m seen terrible teams from FOs that were just clueless, but I have never seen the rug pulled out from under them by the ownership due to money so many times. I like Jerry, I think he is smart and the best GM we have had in a long time. When you have a plan and sell it to the fans only to have ownership cut your budget 1 week before the winter meetings, is just horrible financial and PR management. This ownership has destroyed its trust with the fans to the point I don’t think it will ever come back. And most blame Jerry for this, since they aren’t as clued in. Jerry should just quit and tell everyone I tried to sail, but the owner kept lighting the ship on fire.
mlb fan
This budget cut is coming from ownership and they also want you to pay more to watch their games on “Root Sports”. But, to be fair I’ve heard the price increase is a Comcast decision, not necessarily a Mariners decision. Time will tell if that actually makes me feel any better.
Zippy the Pinhead
Comcast’s price is based on what they’re forced to pay Root Sports. Root instituted a major price hike to Fubo and Comcast (after they got the Kraken) – reports are about $8.50 higher per household. Comcast is a horrible company, made worse by the Mariners greed.
Not the real Sports Pope
How many more offseasons to go until we finally see the team Jerry “envisions”
angelsbroncosfan
Trader Jerry plan every offseason, make 15 to 20 trades and hope one player works out
titanic struggle
It seems though, that alot of teams are being conservative though 5hey don’t really want to.. though.
marinersblue96
I have to call complete BS that Roots moving to a premier sports package is going to cause them to lose $. Since the M’s own 70% of ROOT they are also going to get a piece of that $. And if more people cut the cord they are going to get more subscribers on FUBO streaming which they signed an agreement with last year.
They were the most profitable franchise in 2022, had 400k more in attendance in 2023. Bought the old Pyramid facility across from the stadium, which was packed before every home game(including the parking lot bar). They are literally printing $. If they don’t add significantly this off season then Stanton needs to sell the damn team. Their are plenty of billionaires in the Seattle area that would love to purchase this team (Bezos expressed interest during the last transition).
Build a team around the elite pitching, J-Rod, and Cal.
bob9988 2
That would get me exited. Bezos vs Cohen for FAs. That would be fun.
hllywdjff
How many cable subscribers are really going to cut their service over $0.60 a day extra!?? Not enough to impact the Mariners and their payroll so knock it off owners and quit crying wolf like you do every year it’s always something different we’re sick of it as fans I’ve been watching this team for 40 years and if they don’t do something this off season to make themselves a championship contender I’m changing allegiances and going to root for the Braves at least they are willing to spend money and put a good product on the field unlike this joke of a ownership group!
Astrosfn1979
It’s not about 60 cents per day. Nobody pays a monthly service per day.
It’s about $20 per month added to a monthly bill when people are ditching broadcast subscriptions left and right because people can’t afford tent, car payment, cell phone bill, groceries, gas, insurance, etc.
The lower and middle class have less disposable income than ever. Many people simply can’t afford another $20 per month. That’s why I canceled my DirecTV. Gotta prioritize expenses.
Primitive Screwhead
Tent is the one thing they can afford…
hllywdjff
I should have broken it down 60 cents extra a day come on that’s not going to make the difference between somebody eating or not… Like somebody said in one of the posts make this team good enough that people want to watch and spend that extra $18.50 a month
hllywdjff
Wufler
My wife and I had been talking about cutting xfinity for a year since all I used it for was watching M’s games. When they decided to raise the rates we cancelled. So yes, people are leaving because of the change.
hllywdjff
Well now that the Mariners have found their excuse we will get to watch mediocre baseball for the next God knows how many years…
BPax
The window is NOW for the M’s with the young pitching and up the middle with Cal, JP, and Julio, all young and up and coming. Get it done Mariners!
Addendum: Comcast/Xfinity is evil.
LDilbert
Here’s the plan
SS JP crawford
CF Julio
LF Lourdes gurriel jr (5/75 million)
Dh Jd Martinez(3/45)
C Cal Raleigh/Harry Ford
3B France
2B Cole Young ( top prospect)
1B Tyler locklear (top prospect)
RF Canzone
Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert, Bryce, Woo , Hancock remain
Jerry promises to his owners to trade Castillo mid season or next year when Ray returns.
Fill bullpen with be additions and Brash and Munoz
LDilbert
Just give us two out of Martinez , gurriel, Lee , Soler
Reynaldo
Soler is the player profile they’re trying to trade away, so don’t get your hopes up for him
LDilbert
You’re right.
But we got his hitting coach, he’s a righty that bangs. And Jerry is cornered desperate
TheHighCheese4Me
And Julio is gone after next year.
sadmarinersfan
No way we would give JD a three year deal. He’s 36, and is exclusively a DH, not someone I want more than one or two years, and $15 mil a year is a bit steep for my liking
LDilbert
You sound like Jerry dipoto and mariners ownership
timmygee
Xfinity announced the $20 price increase awhile ago. Screw Xfinity! The team needs to partner up with and promote FUBO and keep the at home viewership up. Too many upset at the recent trades- remember people, this is a business that has nothing to do with favorite player…… Do you trash your computer and sell your MS stock when they change the way your email is set up? How far did the M’s move up in K – rate after these recent trades? I’m gonna miss Teo, Gino, and Kelenic but…. Winter Meeting will be over soon. Breathe! The way Jerry gossips you never know what’s going to happen
BPax
I liked and rooted for Kelenic. One problem though is that every borderline strike called against him was a personal affront. And he was personally affronted hundreds of times a season which sent him to dark places. The culmination was when he broke himself in the dugout.
Primitive Screwhead
Yep. I rooted for him, but he definitely needs to mature. It got frustrating watching him pout.
DFForReal12
“MLBTR’s Contract Tracker shows that the club hasn’t given any position player a multi-year deal since Dipoto was hired by the Mariners in 2015. AJ Pollock’s one-year, $7MM pact is the largest guarantee given out to a hitter under Dipoto’s watch.”
That’s super disturbing and troubling consider the position we’re in right now. We will have to do MUCH better than 1 year for any FA player out there right now…. OR we’re trading from our rotation/prospects to get a good position player.
Super unfortunate….
Seager Slams
They need Hoskins in the DH spot.
Smokey the bear
I usually back ownership, but even I am getting tired of the excuses. If your owner group is that poor that it can’t add another 20 million, there’s something wrong. It’s their problem about root sports not us fans. YOU can’t trade all the minor league prospects to make up the difference in trades. Allot of the teams success is tied to their minor league development. Try and get two decent bats and roll with it. Don’t mortgage the future to make the present just a little better. Get one of the billionaires in Washington to buy the team.
mlb fan
I feel you. I’m pro team and I agree it’s getting more difficult to stay on board each and every day.
Ed_Vandeberg
The m’s aren’t the only team dealing with RSN issues, and it hasn’t stopped the Diamondbacks and Rangers from having success and adding payroll.
This ownership group consists of a bunch of people who appear happy to have the experience, and the understanding has been there will be no cash calls or risky decisions made that will cause them to dig deep.
This approach has existed since the team was “saved” back in 1992, but it’s time for new owners. They should sell, collect the profit on their investment and let a new group manage the team.
jimmyz
Other pieces would most likely need to be involved to make it work but I think a Woo for Randy Arozarena framework would be a solid baseball trade for both the Mariners and Rays.
LDilbert
Salary dump time!
Bryan Woo
Munoz
Robbie Ray
Moore
Going to the Yankees for
Gleybar torres
A relief prospect
And player to be named later
Hancock replaces woo in the rotation
Moore would look sexy in a Yankees uniform
Munoz has the stuff, but shaky this year
Dump a overpriced Robbie Ray
Then Ohtani can finally sign with the Mariners since that’s what’s taking so long.
dbdmack
Yankee fan? Because no way Seattle does this.
LDilbert
Better yet
Castillo
Ray
Munoz
To Yankees for
Low level prospects!
Sign Ohtani 50mil/12yrs
Sign Yamamoto 25mil/10 million
rickoppelt
Soler and Garver seem like mariners types
TacomaMike23
Jerry Bavasi is on the hot seat
ballgawd
Seriously!? BavASSi depleted our entire farm system and built an almost mediocre big league club. Dipoto has rebuilt the farm system into one of the ones in the league and built a big league club that is in playoff contention. He’s done all of this with less than half the budget of the big boys. He can’t help how much money he’s given to spend. $tanton is the one you should want out.
YourDreamGM
This guy is awful at PR Marketing. If you like him then promote him and let someone else speak to the media.
JohnFisher’s$1BlumpkinSpecial
@bookbook you’re thinking of Elon Musk, the elderly Chinese woman that owns Twitter.
MartialArtisan
The off-season isn’t over, but based on Jerry and Scott’s comments, it’s time for them admit that the fans have been cheated. When they took their “step back” a few years ago the fans were told to be patient and when they hit their window of contention they would dramatically increase payroll. They hit that window 2 years ago and yet only one 7MM contract to a free agent hitter…Come on! This is embarrassing. We’re not Oakland! The excuses they’ve made are just that, excuses, and they sound more pathetic every day. If they’re afraid of fans dropping Root it’s their own damn fault.
LDilbert
What part is too much?
You’ll miss Ray?
Woo you can replace with Hancock.
Munoz you can replace with Someone who can handle the moment.
Moore I’ve watched for 4 years now , we already know what he is.
I’ve watched nearly every game since I moved back to Washington in 2001. Not a Yankees fan but I’ll do them a solid if they take the payroll so we can sign Ohtani or Yamamoto, or snell could even replace Robbie
sadmarinersfan
We all know we aren’t going to make any significant additions. Stanton isn’t going to open up the checkbook when there is no reason (from his perspective) to spend. The fans show up, they get lots of support, and all without putting a good product on the field.
Zippy the Pinhead
Here’s the deal, Jerry: make the playoffs this year. Nothing less. If you don’t, you’re just another failure in the long line of Mariners leaders.
Ed_Vandeberg
Squandering this window of opportunity, with this young roster, might be the lowest point in Mariner history and there are a lot of low points…
cdouglas24000
I’m done with the Stanton/ dipito dynamic. The city of Seattle is on the cusp of actually being competitive for the n3xt 3 years. If u don’t pump money into this team to fill the holes (LF, RF, DH, 3B), then why have the team? 60 mil increase in payroll will get u what we need. Right now they are around the 117 M mark. Taking that up to 177 is not unreasonable. You are wasting the beginning of the prime of Cal, JP, Castillo, Gilbert, kirby, & brash. Spend the money. Crap or get off the pot and get an owner that will spend.
Primitive Screwhead
A 60m increase in payroll barely gets them into the top half of team payrolls.
How cheap do they have to be? Man, I hate Stanton so much.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
So they dumped 3 scrubs (sorry, Jarred, but it wasn’t gonna work with you here) and Suarez. I think the Suarez trade is gonna hurt the most, but if Urias does bounce back to what he was in 2022 then it’s probably only a 1 WAR drop. So long as Jerry Dipoto doesn’t dumpster dive behind Dollar Tree for the Kolten Wongs, AJ Pollocks, and Tommy La Stellas of the world, I think the Mariners are in a decent position to come out better in 2024 than they were this year.
bloomquist4hof
They have a 3 or 4 year window at this point on the current core. They should be maximizing it. I’m not against the idea of trying to build a sustainable winner obviously but building a real 95-win team with a shorter contention window would give a higher likelihood of winning a World Series than to build a sustainable 85-win team that hopes you hit a wild card every 2-3 years.
They can still be pretty good, even with 150 million payroll or whatever the number ends up being, there’s still ways to improve in that price range, but it’s pricing them out of some real talent.
LDilbert
I would make Jerry package Castillo and Ray and then fire him if he can’t land Ohtani.
good vibes only
I’m very frustrated but I’m going to pull a Fred Park here and throw some positivity into the thread. Jerry is very good at what he does. Limits have obviously, and unexpectedly, been put on him. This is the guy that executed this beautiful rebuild of the past 4-5 years on a shoestring budget. The organization is very deep and very strong. He has assets to work with and he’s so good at identifying talent it doesn’t even matter because they draft and develop SO WELL. I’m skeptical, but I haven’t given up hope or confidence in Jerry’s process. Let’s see what the man can do by trade if he doesn’t have the green light to spend money.
marinersfan30
Here’s the plan
SS JP crawford
CF Julio
LF Randy Arozarena
Dh Jd Martinez(2/30 million
C Cal Raleigh
3B Justin turner 1/14 million
1B TY France
2B Luis Urías
RF Dominic canzone
lee cousins
Wishful thinking.
lee cousins
The master stroke: Given the constraints no miracles are in the M’s forecast. The M’s only have prospects and pitching capitol to work with. Forget about money changing hands. The Christmas holiday will not see the M’s put a donation in the Salvation Army pot, or FA. for that mater. Ringing the bell louder may or may not help the cause only if eyes are upon them, and by the looks of things plenty of eyes are being focus on them these days. My hunch is will see a modest addition with one full time player with a DH. added, with the DH. that will be a cost saving move. They will hope this will replace Teo, and Suarez do they improve also without Kelenic or Murphy? Marlowe should get more playing time he’s still a rookie so what can we expect? Hopefully the pitching will pick up some of the slack here. but I’m not all that optimistic in this fire sale knowing who we’re dealing with.
sea-mari-fan
Ok, penny-pinching Dipoto, here is your chance to redeem yourself from your past mistakes. Please sign Jung Hoo Lee. Many saw Mr. Lee played in the last WBC, and he flashed talents very similar to Ichiro.
Primitive Screwhead
Dipoto isn’t the one deciding to pinch pennies. He’s having to deal with it.