The Braves and Red Sox have agreed to a major trade, as left-hander Chris Sale will head to Atlanta in exchange for infield prospect Vaughn Grissom, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports. The Sox will also include $17MM in the deal to help cover Sale’s $27.5MM salary for the 2024 season, as per the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier. Sale had a full no-trade clause that he has waived to facilitate the move.
The surprising move ends Sale’s tumultuous run in Boston after seven years and six seasons, as Sale missed all of the 2020 campaign. After acquiring Sale as part of a blockbuster deal with the White Sox in December 2016, Sale pitched brilliantly in his first two seasons at Fenway, twice finishing in the top four in AL Cy Young Award voting and playing a big role in Boston’s World Series title in 2018.
Since 2019 was the last year of Sale’s previous contract, the Red Sox were aggressive in locking up their ace, signing him to a five-year, $145MM extension covering the 2020-24 seasons, with a $20MM club option for the 2025 campaign. Unfortunately, this extension has proven to be a big misfire, as Sale started to run into injury problems even late in the 2018 campaign. He was shut down in August 2019 with elbow inflammation and received a PRP injection, yet that elbow issue was only the harbinger for the Tommy John surgery that cost Sale his entire 2020 season and most of his 2021 campaign.
The bad injury luck continued over the last two seasons, as Sale was sidelined by a wide array of maladies including a stress reaction in his ribs, a fractured finger, a broken wrist (suffered in a bicycle accident), and a stress reaction in his shoulder blade. Sale tossed only 48 1/3 innings total in 2021-22, while rebounding to some extent to pitch 102 2/3 frames last season.
Sale’s 93.9mph fastball velocity in 2023 slightly topped his career average, while his strikeout, walk, and hard-hit ball rates were all well above the league average. While the southpaw may never get back to his past elite form, Sale’s 2023 performance at least indicated that he still has a good deal left in the tank as he enters his age-35 season, provided that he can just stay on the field.
This is exactly what the Braves are counting on from Sale as a third or even a fourth starter, behind Max Fried, Spencer Strider, and Charlie Morton in the team’s rotation. President of baseball operations Alex Anthopoulos is counting in Sale’s upside to bolster the pitching staff, and Atlanta’s collection of younger arms (AJ Smith-Shawver, Dylan Dodd, Huascar Ynoa, Darius Vines, and top prospect Hurston Waldrep) and swingman Reynaldo Lopez can provide extra depth should Sale or anyone else in the rotation need time on the injured list.
In typical Anthopoulos fashion, this particular trade came out of nowhere, even if the Braves were known to be looking for some pitching help. Atlanta made a strong bid for Aaron Nola before he re-signed with the Phillies, and such free agent and trade targets as Tyler Glasnow, Dylan Cease, Sonny Gray, and Seth Lugo were also linked to the Braves on the rumor mill.
Because Sale’s extension the Red Sox contained $10MM of deferred money per season, he’ll cost the Braves merely $500K in actual salary in 2024. Even without the deferral involved, a one-year, $10.5MM deal for Sale as a free agent would’ve been a reasonable or even a slight bargain price for a pitcher with his track record. It could perhaps be argued that the Braves might have been better off finding such a pitcher on the free agent market rather than trade away a promising young player like Grissom, but it is also fair to note that such a rotation upgrade might not have existed at a $10.5MM price tag. Or, dealing for a pitcher like Cease, Corbin Burnes, Shane Bieber, or other still-available trade candidates might’ve cost Atlanta lot more than only Grissom.
Sale’s $20MM club option for 2025 shouldn’t be discounted either, as the Braves might consider exercising that option if Sale pitched well. The $20MM figure matches what Morton is earning this season, and since Morton has flirted with retirement over the last few years, Sale could potentially step in as Atlanta’s veteran rotation arm if Morton does hang up his cleats next winter. Sale’s $20MM club option is actually a vesting option that becomes guaranteed if he finishes the year healthy, and finished in the top 10 in NL Cy Young Award voting.
Anthopoulos and team chairman Terry McGuirk weren’t kidding last November when they said that the Braves planned to keep increasing payroll. The Braves’ $203MM Opening Day payroll from 2023 was already a club record, and Roster Resource now projects a payroll just shy of $241MM for the 2024 squad. After topping the luxury tax barrier for the first time in 2023, the Braves’ estimated $280MM tax number now soars over the third penalty tier of $277MM, so they’ll face increasingly hefty overages as second-time payors. Passing the third tier means that Atlanta’s top pick in the 2024 draft will now drop 10 spots, and they’ll face the standard tax penalties related to qualified free agents and the international bonus pool.
This doesn’t appear to be much of a deterrent for an Atlanta club that has been swimming in extra revenues since the opening of Truist Park and its neighboring ballpark village project known as The Battery. The Braves have used this money to lock up several members of its roster on contract extensions, and this young core has already delivered the 2021 World Series championships and six straight NL East crowns.
The outlook hasn’t been as rosy at Fenway Park, as the Red Sox have been very inconsistent since that 2018 title. On the heels of consecutive last-place finishes in the AL East, Craig Breslow replaced Chaim Bloom as the team’s chief baseball officer, and Breslow now has his first true blockbuster trade as a front office executive.
Starting pitching has been a known need for the Red Sox all winter, and Boston just signed Lucas Giolito yesterday to help address the rotation mix. While moving Sale diminishes from the number of available arms, the trade does free up some money to help make other moves, and the Sox simply might’ve wanted a more reliable starting pitching option than the injury-plagued Sale. Plus, adding six years of team control over a promising player like Grissom is a nice return for the Sox at the cost of $17MM.
Grissom immediately fills Boston’s need for second base help. An 11th-round pick for Atlanta in the 2019 draft, Grissom has torn up minor league pitching during his four seasons in the Braves’ farm system and quickly got himself on the radar for a big league call-up. Grissom hit .291/.353/.440 over 156 plate appearances in 2022, though followed up with a more modest .659 OPS in just 80 PA last season. Given a chance at the everyday shortstop job, Grissom fell behind Orlando Arcia on the depth chart, and ultimately spent most the season at Triple-A since the Braves wanted him to play regularly rather than ride the bench.
Grissom has spent much of his minor league career as a shortstop, yet there has been some question about his long-term viability at the position. Moving to second base or third base was difficult on a Braves team with Ozzie Albies and Austin Riley already in place, so Grissom had been getting some reps as an outfielder as a possible candidate to fill the club’s left field vacancy. However, the acquisition of Jarred Kelenic from the Mariners also seemed to close that door.
No such position blocks exist in Boston, as the Red Sox might well just install Grissom as their Opening Day second baseman. He fits Breslow’s preferred add of a right-handed hitter, and Grissom’s glovework could or should work out well at the less-demanding second base position. Getting Grissom in the fold could now relegate Enmanuel Valdez, Pablo Reyes, or Rob Refsnyder to pure backup duty or perhaps even as trade chips, while Ceddanne Rafaela now looks even likelier to be used as an outfielder (and Rafaela might yet be a trade candidate himself).
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Didn’t see that one coming
The most interesting part is what is the next move for BOS? They’ve basically replaced Sale with Giolito, but they still need another SP. Assuming they won’t land either Montgomery or Snell (only because they’re Boras clients & would require an overpay this early), do they have another SP deal already lined up?
Alek Manoah for Grissom and Rafaela
My question is did you not trust Bloom? This has his input all over it and it now confirms my suspicions that ownership not Bloom made all decisions. This kid might be good going forward but timing is everything and this does not pass the smell test after what ownership said going into the winter meetings
In furtherance of my other comment, if the savings was used on Giolito then I “double down” on it but if they now get Montgomery which I’m still expecting despite the chatter saying otherwise, then it can make sense. Sale has an upside but most likely won’t pitch 100 innings of quality ball.
Mystery13 — Not happening. Manoah is now an unknown quantity and what you suggest would be an overpay by the Red Sox.
dewey – Okay I’ll be the one to ask …. what?
dewey – All too often people tend to assume recent injuries will continue to happen going forward. Fact is, we simply don’t know that. Now that Chris is with a new organization, perhaps he will be on a better conditioning regime that will allow him to stay healthy more, I think we all agree he is grotesquely thin, putting on some weight should certainly help.
I think this trade could go either way. He could continue to be impacted by injuries, or he could continue to pitch as well as he did at the end of last season. As of right now, the trade heavily favors Atlanta. They are getting what could be at least a #3 starting pitcher for just $10M and if he performs well the 2025 option would be a steal.
Grissom has potential, but the Braves obviously felt OF was in his future because he’s been a poor defensive middle infielder. But he’s so young he could improve.
I think more moves are coming, THIS is why I kept telling people to stop being so impatient.
One Pablo Sandoval situation was enough
Mystery – Bet you didn’t know Grissom’s first MLB hit was a homerun …. that left Fenway Park …. off Darwinzon Hernandez.
Yes I’m a fountain of knowledge.
The Blue Jays would be stupid to trade a pitcher with his years of control/potential upside to a team in their same division unless it was an overpay. They have no reason to sell low unless they value what they’re getting in return.
Fever Pitch: Walker Buehler and Tristan McKenzie are all grotesquely underweight but are having pretty good careers. Buehler has said he eats a lot but just can’t put on weight. Sometimes it’s just genetics. Nothing Sale and the others can do about that.
Shane: You lost me at Blue Jays.
I’m only going to say this once, “son stay off the drugs!” Lol
Sorry I think I replied to the wrong comment that was meant for Pete’sView
So, dumb question, but, with the braves assuming the contract at this point, who pays what on the deferred portions of the deal due in future years?
Fever, if is a big word. Sometimes I wish I waited before posting. The team is building a lot of young assets which will create a log jam now and before the next Rule V draft. I’m now expecting multiple deals between now and then for pitching. The team has infield and outfield youngsters who together have good value.
Dewey – do you think there will be a mix of dealing for some controllable pitching and letting the kids play, on a BIG scale, on the ’24 club to see what they’ve got?
I’m going to get TF going as well I bet, but, imagine an infield of rafaela, story, grissom, casas, plus dalbec and the failed 2B crew as depth and an OF with Duran, Abreu, Oneill/yoshida.
Trade Jansen, put Houck in 7th, and Martin/Whitlock to split 8/9th.
Let the kids play.
Buehler will have not pitched in 22 months by the time the 2024 season starts. He is coming off his 2nd Tommy John procedure so a 1 in 20 shot he ever puts up a season as a starting pitcher with an ERA under 4.00.
I believe there’s also a team option for next year. Not sure if that’s voided by a trade though.
Devers?
Really idiot wtf
GASoxFan – Good read on my reaction!!!
If Devers goes to DH and Yoshida gets traded for a SP better than Bello, Giolito, Houck and Crawford then Boston is improving.
This deal for Sale is a tough one to evaluate.
1 – A BUY DOWN is financial suicide so that aspect of this deal is terrible. NEVER give up money, give up assets so the available money under the CAP stays at the max.
2 – Sale is far better off NEVER talking to CORA again. I’m very happy for Sale. I now have to reconsider keeping him in my fantasy dynasty league. He might flourish with good pitching coaches and a REAL MANAGER not a CLOWN.
3 – Vaughn Grissom is a piece of the puzzle that was missing. He needs to improve his defense but he is a long-term 2B piece that far exceeds Yorke or even Story since Story doesn’t hit any more. So BRAVO to Breslow on getting Grissom.
If we go down his check list here is the current status:
1 – Fire Cora – INCOMPLETE
2 – Move Devers to DH – INCOMPLETE
3 – Acquire a SP1 – INCOMPLETE
4 – Acquire a SP2 – INCOMPLETE
5 – Acquire a 3B – INCOMPLETE
6 – Acquire a 2B – COMPLETE!!!!
7 – Acquire a lefty reliever/closer – INCOMPLETE
8 – Trade Verdugo – COMPLETE!!!!!
9 – Trade Yoshida – INCOMPLETE
10 – Acquire a second lefty reliever – INCOMPLETE
11 – Acquire a catcher – COMPLETE!!!!!
12 – Trade Sale – COMPLETE!!!!!
13 – Trade Story – INCOMPLETE
FOUR of THIRTEEN TASKS COMPLETED.
Maybe by New Years we’ll see some progress on the most important items 1 thru 5!!!
I still say #1 won’t happen, but, MAYBE he doesn’t get renewed.
#2 isn’t this offseason, but, he also has no reason to work to improve his D… he got PAID by bloom, he doesnt care as theres no financial incentive left.
#3/4 on the list doesn’t need to be this year. I’d be happy if one was this year, another next.
#5 is likely a trade-based solution, but, see #2, no rush as they won’t move him this year.
#7 is no rush either, someone will come along. I would like Martin/Whitlock as closer, so, just a decent lrp or two.
#9 I’d like to wait until the all-star break and see what he’s got. His stock won’t fall and may rise, and salary is a sunk cost since trading him now will mean eating $$$.
#13 is sort of like 9… sunk cost… plus, with Mayer far from amounting to anything yet, let’s see how be bounces back. Remember, he returned seemingly early because SS was such a black hole last year.
I like your list better as a to-do by opening day 2025
Dewey – I’m not following. Bloom? Breslow? Ownership?
This move cost $17MM for a prospect that has upside potential and is controllable. That’s a steep price but what does it have to do with Bloom?
This deal must mean that Breslow’s coaching staff concluded Sale has nothing left otherwise this is a very dumb deal. Bloom got an offer from Texas and refused it. I believe Bloom thought Sale had something left and maybe Cora was the problem. That explains the issue between Cora and Bloom.
Also, Sale may be a late inning reliever in Atlanta not a starter. His stuff plays well at getting out tough lefty power hitters. You know guys like Ohtani and Freeman. This to me has nothing to do with Bloom this is Atlanta feeling they had depth at 2B so they gave us a good prospect for a nasty lefty reliever.
Braves pay deferred ’24 and ’25 (if option is picked up). Boston pays all previous years’ deferrals.
Fever – HAHAHA you certainly are a fountain of something!!!
My take is there is no set of dominos here. This is ATL getting Sale as a late inning guy to handle Ohtani and Freeman and having depth to do it. No biggie. It helps both sides and I’m guessing Breslow’s pitching coaches didn’t think Sale could be an effective starter because otherwise this makes no sense.
I think the Braves are expecting Sale to be a starter. Their bullpen is full. Although I wish they’d re-sign Jesse Chavez.
Dewey – There is no log jam that I can see.
You have good prospects and not so good prospects. Just like in the old days when Mookie was a good prospect and Swihart was not. We have good ones in Rafaela, Anthony, Casas, Duran, Abreu, Teel not to mention Bello, Houck, Crawford on the pitching side. We also have pretenders like Mayer, Yorke, Jordan, Bleis, Romero and Zanetello.
Move the pretenders like DD did. That makes perfect sense in finding SPs. They also have Yoshida to deal to get pitching.
GA, who knows? As Chris Russo says prospects are suspects. You never know and most teams externally over evaluate them. Remember when Sale came to Boston. The choice was keeping Devers over Moncada. That’s a decision that keeps you employed. The team will hopefully make good decisions but there’s no crystal ball.
Troll. I posted prematurely before digging into the return who I confused with someone else. It seemed more to save the money even down the road. Now I realize it frees up more assets like Mayer or Yorke who could be dealt.
It’s a fan created list, not an official Craig Breslow list, so I’m not thinking much of it.
Giolito doesn’t fit into this list either? I’m not putting much weight into it.
Trade Jansen, put Houck in 7th, and Martin/Whitlock to split 8/9th.
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I would, especially if I could find a deal where we could kick in half his salary to improve our return, like we did with Sale.
With the usual disclaimer about SSS and closing being a different animal, Houck’s OPS in relief is .570, while Hader’s is .545. That’s pretty close.
With the second disclaimer that any savings should be spent on players.
#2 isn’t this offseason, but, he also has no reason to work to improve his D… he got PAID by bloom, he doesnt care as theres no financial incentive left.
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My latest thinking is that, if Chapman’s price falls into the $100M/5 or so, sign Chapman and move Devers to DH.
Absolutely no thank you
avenger – They are only 29 and 26 respectively, and Buehler is 4 inches shorter than Sale but weighs more than him. Yes I understand some people can’t gain weight no matter what they do. Nobody knows for sure whether Sale chose to not bulk up, or whether he tried.
Sale started breaking down around Age 30 for many of the reasons that were expected. With a proper pitching motion, power pitchers get their velocity from their hips, thighs, etc. Because Sale has no hips, thighs, etc he utilized a slingshot pitching motion that put much more stress and strain on his arm and upper body. Hence the injuries.
Even the great Pedro, who was not nearly as thin as Sale, was toast after his Age 33 season.
GASox – I knew somebody would ask about the deferred payments, but I was trying to avoid the subject! Haha!
The Red Sox most definitely already paid into escrow the deferred payments for 2020-2023, and they will show up on their Spotrac starting in 2035. If you don’t see it 12 years from now, let me know and I’ll look into it.
A good comp would be Manny Ramirez. Even though he was traded to the Dodgers prior to the end of his Red Sox contract, he is still showing on the Red Sox Spotrac because he had salary deferred over a 16-year period …. only 3 more years to go!
dewey – I totally agree with you.
You know what’s hilariously ironic?
Myself, KD, GASox, DBH and a bunch of others have been trying to explain for YEARS why Dombrowski was correct in trading prospects for talent such as Kimbrel, Sale, Eovaldi, etc. He got so much criticism here for doing so, and Bloom got so much praise here for not doing so.
But guess what?
Breslow and the rest of the front office have repeatedly stated they will acquire talent via trades of prospects, perhaps more often than through free agency.
So now the front office WILL be doing EXACTLY what Dombrowski did …. how ironic is that!
That’s why I wouldn’t get too attached to any of Grissom, Yorke, Mayer, Rafaela, Abreu, Casas, Bleis, Romero, Zanetello, Valdez, Judice, Fitts, Anthony, Gonzalez, or Duran. I think at least a couple of those guys WILL be gone during the next year. I’m leaving out Teel because the need is too great.
TF – If the Sox can land a #1 SP under team control for at least 3 years, you don’t think they’d give up Casas and move Devers to 1B?
Remember, you said the exact same thing about Vladdy’s defense at 3B and he is now a GG 1B!!!!!
TF – Braves have already gone on record that Sale will be locked in as a regular season and postseason starter. No doubt it was something that was agreed upon when negotiations were ongoing to have Sale lift the NTC.
Just to recap for those who stopped following the team after Bloom lied about the trade deadline:
Red Sox announcers leaked live on the air before a game in September 2023 that in 2022 Texas had offered to acquire Sale and take on all his salary while giving prospects too. The announcers mocked Bloom for not agreeing to the trade.
Immediately after that report, Sale – who was quite angry about the report being leaked – went on an epic extended performance.
Despite his velocity being down, in his final 3 starts he pitched 16 innings and gave up just 8 hits, 2 runs, 4 walks, and he struck out 19!!!
If Sale manages to stay healthy and continue to pitch like he did at the end of last season, this trade will be a steal for the Braves.
Either way, sorry TF but there is NO CHANCE IN HELL that Sale will be starting next season in the bullpen. If he gets moved to the bullpen later in the season, it will be strictly because of either poor performance or health concerns.
bham – 2025 deferred option would kick in only if Sale is Top Ten in 2024 Cy voting while finishing the season healthy.
And the Red Sox already funded the first four years of deferrals, why do you think their CBT hit for those years included the NPV of the deferrals.
TF – Happy New Year!!
So bottom line, who do you think will be the middle infielders for the 2025 Red Sox? If they have Grissom, Story, Yorke and Mayer, only TWO of those guys can be a middle infield starter in 2025 … and I’m not even including Rafaela!!!
And please don’t say Devers will be traded and Story will be playing 3B for the first time in his career! Hahaha!!!
I know the option only kicks in under those conditions, but if he pitches well and doesn’t meet those conditions, the Braves still have the ability to pick up the option.
The referral for 2024 got traded to the Braves along with Sale. The Red Sox will get a credit for any CBT they’ve already paid, assuming they reach the threshold.
TF – Wait a minute, now you are AGREEING with me that there will be trades involving at least two current Red Sox middle infielders?
But you just said there will be “no set of dominos”?
Were you talking about pizza instead? Haha!!
Joe – If you’re comparing closers, why would you use OPS in relief?
Use OPS in Save Situations, silly goose.
Houck – .481 OPS
Hader – .523 OPS
bham – You’re correct on all but your last sentence.
There’s no “credit” involved for the Red Sox, why would there be? Unless the details of the trade haven’t been accurately reported.
It’s a guaranteed 5 year $145M contract.
2020-2022 $30M each
2023-2024 $27.5M each
Present Value is $128M which is why the CBT hit is $25.6M annually.
In terms of cash, Sox have already paid the full amount each year 2020-2023.
2020 $20M to Chris, $6.6M to escrow
2021 $20M to Chris $6.6M to escrow
2022 $20M to Chris $6.6M to escrow
2023 $17.5M to Chris $6.6M to escrow
The Sox have paid $17M towards the $17.5M Chris is scheduled to receive in 2024, with the Braves scheduled to pay Chris the remaining $500K and also the $6.6M to escrow. That is why the Braves CBT hit for 2024 is $8.6M.
I was thinking about options, I guess. For instance, if you have a player with a $20M option in the 4th year with a $5M buyout, the buyout is included up front in the AAV. If you exercise the option, then you get credit in the 4th year for what you’ve already paid. The player’s CBT calculation is $15M.
he is now a GG 1B!!!!!
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GG’s are a joke. Vlad was awful last year.
@Fever Pitch Guy I would think a player is just as likely to get hurt as the next guy regardless of history but the facts don’t seem to support that. Some guys are more prone to injury. A lot plays into that. You mentioned conditioning but pitching motion, pitch selection percentage, natural build, arm slot, long playoff runs, are all factors among others. As someone with some back issues I can tell you that any movement big or small can bring pain level from a 2 to 9-10 from something as simple as leaning over or sitting up. They’ve made huge advancements in surgeries but my experience with guys I’ve spoken to is once you’ve had surgery it’s unlikely to be your last and these aren’t guys constantly pushing their bodies
Why are you so down on Story? You do realize he was injured, right? And before that he was raking.
why Chavez?
He’s been with the Braves parts of the last three years, and has always been productive for them, despite his injury last year. He was a leader in the bullpen.
Save situations could mean in the 6th inning. Does not apply to comparing closers.
Compare OPS against in the 9th inning.
Red Sox have signed a number of Boras clients over the years, but it’s been awhile that’s for sure.
That is not for sure, Yoshida last offseason.
And we overpaid
Theyre both goin to be overpaid anyways, Yamamoto and Ohtani wrecked the market, but you know boras is loving that!
Good trade; a maybe for a maybe
Risk for risk but I’ll take the 6 controllable years over a 35yo oft injured pitcher with weird mechanics all day long.
This also opens the door with the money off the books of a starter via FA or trade (more likley now imo).With Pivetta and potentially Gio leaving in’24 there almost has to be at least one to two more starters on the way. For the first time since 2020 I see some semblance of executing on the FO’s part.
Stroman
When they resign Paxton he will be Sale’s replacement. They are pretty much identical pitchers these days. Paxton is a bit more reliable and won’t cost half of what Sale does. Giolito is a head scratcher. He will never be much more than a #4 without the sticky stuff.
Giolito gives you around 170 innings, a ton of strikeouts, and durability. In these days when starters don’t go 7 innings, that’s a lot to like. Less stress on the bullpen.
I’m still struggling to see how this is a “major trade.” A pitcher with his arm in a sling for a minor leaguer without a position doesn’t strike me as “major.” This is a “risk and reward” deal at best.
They did it while Ihey had a sale price.
padam – Sale is a big name pitcher who is making a good chunk of change, so yes it’s a major trade.
And he was pitching better at the points in the season.
He was a big name pitcher 5 years ago. As for the chunk of change, that was just bad front office execution. Doesn’t constitute a major deal by shifting debt.
You misspelled “was” a big name pitcher
@padam Even bigger than a major trade…a “blockbuster”.
This isn’t a “major trade” like Ralphie Parker’s dad’s leg lamp was a “major award”, but it is notable.
Major now is a stretch. Chris Sale used to be a good pitcher and got the dough to prove it. However, since he has been injured and pretty ineffective.
What about Vaughn Grissom? Should I keep him on my fantasy team going into the draft? I have him at $1
He’s going from AAA to possible MLB starter, so…
I really don’t know what the Braves are thinking here?
Cap – They had a young player they didn’t know what to do with, and they are gambling that a change of scenery could give them a solid #3 SP for $10.5M next year and maybe $20M in 2025. It’s a good move by them, a good gamble.
Worst case scenario, they are out $10.5M.
Odd use of Grissom’s value. I’d think sale’s contract was nearly unmovable, even with the cash. Good deal for Boston. Another sort of puzzling move for the braves.
JCP – “Another” puzzling move? Not something most people would say about one of the most successful and well-run organizations in MLB.
Since 2018 they’ve got 6 straight division titles, a World Championship, and they’ve made the LDS every year despite payrolls ranked between 8th and 21st.
I wish my team had that kind of success since 2018.
99Captain: the Braves are looking at October that is all. Fried, Strider, Sale and Morton seems pretty formidable in a short series
Unlikely Sale is healthy in Sept tho
I’m sure they will limit his innings so he is avaliable for the strech run. They could almost run anybody out there in the regular season and still make the playoffs with their offense.
Especially when Sale is on the couch at home.
Remember Sale was a reliever when he came up and was lights out. Braves can use Sale out of the pen.
Rking – Yes the “limiting innings” thing worked so well all those years with the Red Sox.
A World Series. Glad I could help you out.
Cap….Swapping Sale for a minor leaguer helps Atlanta counter the Dodgers signing Yamamoto. Atlanta has the best lineup still in baseball even with LA adding Ohtani. Fried, Strider, and Sale can compete with Yamamoto, Glasnow, and Buhler this year….These are clearly the best two squads in baseball.
The 20 mill option for next year is key. If Sale rebounds they get another 1 year contract with no long term commitment.
Being a Padres fan is tough. Wish the Pads would make moves.
Great trade for both teams. Braves have an incredible pitching staff already and add a vet with his pedigree to further bolster the rotation.
Sox pick up an intriguing piece.
Padres suck.
Not a Padres fan but the club has made more big moves in the last three-four years than any team in baseball. Did I miss your point?
They’ve not only made big moves but then erased them this offseason. I see his point.
Agreed, they must have been born yesterday
Last year was last year. Don’t give this organization a pass for hiding behind Peter Seidlers death to greatly reduce payroll.
The Padres leaked the ’50 million dollar loan’. The Padres leaked the debt service rule. The Padres pumped needing to trade Soto. The Padres pump the whole TV agreement narrative to justify not spending.
The Padres post Peter Seidler ownership’s main goal is the bottom line. Ownership is treating the Padres as an investment.
As with any hedge fund group, losses are key.
This ownership group at the expense of its loyal fans will pocket the money saved on payroll.
The ownership group will then benefit on recapitalization by cutting labor costs to generate profit.
TV revenue will stay the same with the Padres with a new TV contract but money will not be spent on players.
What do the Cubs, Red Sox, Giants and Padres all have in common????
They are run by Arctos Sports Partners, an investment firm worth over 6 billion dollars.
None of those afformentioned clubs have spent money in the off season.
Send your complaints and inquiries to info@arctospartners.com.
Arctos Sports Partners. Look it up.
Pirates too?
Arctos doesn’t “run” those clubs they are investors and they invest in way more clubs than the 4 you cited.
They control the direction of clubs. Think more or less money managers with a huge incentive to keep costs down.
The Padres didn’t leak the loan info. Its public record. The loan was made by Ascendant Capital and it was for the Tailgate Park development. Cisterra.com/tailgatepark
Acee wrote about the debt service issue and the very next day admitted he was wrong. 23 teams had issues with debt service ratio after the loss of revenue in 2020, but by 2023 the Padres were not one of them.
Padres had record revenue. They are now a revenue sharing PAYOR.
Arctos Sports Partners is a SPAC that was a Theo Epstein project initially and they are not a majority partner in ANY team. They also have shares in the Dodgers, Giants, and Astros. TOTAL they have invested $275 million in sports teams in 5 sports.
They don’t RUN any of those teams. They have relatively tiny investments in them. None are more than a 5% share.
The rest of your post is totally delusional. You need to get back on your meds or get some professional help.
Are the Padres cutting payroll?
Are the Padres reinvesting patroll into signing players?
As fans are we supposed to be more concerned with payroll or players on the field?
Is it your money?
Private equity operates with the standpoint of profits first.
Recapitalization.
WTF are you talking about? You have no clue how the offseason will end up. Its DECEMBER. The season starts March 28th.
Get some professional help. You need it.
Profitably should be of no concern to any sports fan.
They are run by Arctos Sports Partners
===================
What percentage of each team do they own? My understanding is that their share is limited to 15%, tops.
Private equity operates with the standpoint of profits first.
===========================
Everyone does. Owners might enjoy owning teams, but they also want to make money.
Assuming that Web is correct, and Arcos owns 5% or less in all these teams, then they don’t run anything.
I don’t get why Fever Pitch Guy is trying to control the life of a 40 year old man. It’s none of your business. Stick to bashing the Red Sox.
I doubt it is even 5%. Arctos invested $275 million total in 6 MLB teams, several NBA and NHL teams, an MLS team, plus several European futbol teams and a lacrosse league. 15 teams total.
Arctos Sports Partners don’t run those teams. They invest in them and at least 17 others in various sports including NBA, NHL, etc – not just some MLB teams.
Several of those other MLB teams include the Los Angeles Dodgers and Houston Astros..
Dodgers just spent over a billion dollars on just two players which doesn’t fit your narrative of not spending..
BTW.
Red Sox have spent 39.5 mil
Padres 28 mil.
Giants 125.25 mil
The Padres signed one of the top 3 relievers in FA. They made the biggest trade of the offseason and traded for 3 pitchers that will make their OD roster and a backup catcher.
Not sure how you think they are not doing anything.
They still have 5 position players with career averages of 4+ WAR/162 games. They have 3 starting pitchers that have had a mid 3s ERA the last 4 seasons.
With the addition of Thorpe they have a top 5 farm system with a huge number of valuable trade pieces.
How why you think they suck boggles the imagination.
Are they a playoff team as they stand?
They have holes all over the roster.
Making moves to make moves doesn’t cut it.
They traded a generational talent for prospects.
They have let an all-star closer and Cy Young ace walk.
They have holes at lf,cf,dh, 2 starters, 1b and bench depth. Other than that they are fine.
No, this has not been a productive off-season.
Did the regular season start yesterday?
If they brought back everyone their CBT payroll would be around $400 million.
Dial 988. You are losing it.
They traded Soto to fill 4 spots in the major league roster.
SP, 2 RP, and a catcher.
Only one of the players in that trade was a prospect.
If you actually followed that team you would know that for every free agent they sign they make 3 to 4 trades. 1 of each so far which means several trades to come.
Not a Padres fan but going to throw out a few things.
A – .203/.697/85 OPS+
B – .258/.717/101 OPS+
A is Padres at DH not named Machado
B is Batten
Addition by subtraction. Machado will start the season at DH in 2024 so DH seems to be handled.
1B is Cronenworth. Guy has one bad season in his career and a 111 OPS+. No hole there.
Rosario and Azocar are nice bench pieces to go along with Higgy.
I just don’t see why any fan of the Padres would be panicking at this point. If it was March 28th, ok. December 30th? Not at all.
Stick to the pertinent facts.
They don’t have a left fielder.
They don’t have a center fielder.
They don’t have a d/h.
They don’t have a first baseman.
They lost a hall of fame left fielder.
They lost an All-Star closer.
They lost a Cy Young ace.
They REFUSE to add any payroll.
They are in a division where a team spent nearly a billion dollars this offseason.
They are more concerned about not paying a penalty then adding talent.
Ticket prices have increased.
Spending on payroll has decreased.
Profits are more important to the Padres.
This team has done nothing to replace the pieces lost.
Padres fans are supposed to get excited about 2024?
Telling fans that because ‘you spent in the past’ ahem Erik Greupner, you should be content with cutting payroll is a unrealistic at best.
The Padres new ownership group has to earn support.
I will always support every Padres player wearing brown and gold but I will not support Padres ownership until they have earned it.
Padres replaced a starter pitcher, 2 relief pitchers, a catcher in one trade. They signed a closer. That is 5 positions in two moves.
Padres have a CF Azocar and a 1B Cronenworth.
They have a DH that is better than last season in ANYONE they put at the position. Machado will spend the 1st month of 2024 there.
They just signed a FA, so obviously they are adding payroll. It’s also 2023 still and the season is 3 months away in 2024.
The Padres ownership is the same. Its still the Seidler family.
FACT – You don’t support the Padres now. All you do is whine and complain.
Any actual Padres fan would tell you that we have had the best 4 year run in our history and even if they dip under the CBT payroll for 2024, they will still be spending more than the franchise EVER spent before.
FACT – If they start the season at the $202 million CBT they are at today, it’s the 3rd largest opening day payroll in team history. Guess what? They CAN’T start the season at that payroll because they need to add 7 players to the 40-man roster.
You really need to get help. You are totally delusional.
Azocar was barely replacement level.
Cronenworth struggled at first from an offensive output standpoint.
There is a gaping hole in left field.
The team lacks a DH.
The team needs starters.
The team lacks bench depth.
I agree that this was an intriguing trade. The Braves pick up a former top pitcher that is now going into his age 35 season and has 31 starts in his last 4 seasons due to one injury after another. The Red Sox got $10 million in salary relief and an infielder that can hit for average, but not power and can’t play defense. Not game changing for either team, but intriguing,
I seriously doubt you are a Padres fan.
Padres already made one huge trade and signed one of the top 3 relief pitchers available in FA. Padres are known for their huge trades much more so than their huge FA signings. Look at the last 3 seasons. Snell, Musgrove, Darvish, Hader, Soto, Cronenworth all through trades. FA signing? Bogaerts, Kim, Wacha, Lugo, Martinez. Other than Bogaerts all guys with question marks that came in at a low price.
Spring training doesn’t start for 7 weeks and the regular season for 3 months. So pull your head out. The team you see now is not the one that will take the field opening day.
When Padres ownership proves to Padres fans they want to win in 2024 I’ll drop my contention.
I’ll say it again, Padres ownership is more concerned about payroll than competing for a championship.
You will get muted now. You are seriously delusional.
Think I am going to follow suit.
I’m a Red Sox fan. They suck. Bad. And it’s going to be a WHILE before they’re better. Bloom’s time was an unmitigated disaster and the roster is in shambles.
What is it about the Padres. They spend all kinds of money and typically have little to show for it. Then its a sell off and retool.
Players sure enjoy signing with them. It must be the weather.
Zakis: That’s because this is the typical AA move, the one that nobody sees coming.
The hardest part about being a 40 year old man asking his parents for roller blades this Christmas?
Admitting that I’m gay.
Chris Sale will make about 20 starts and have an ERA around 3.45 before he retires in 2 years. Grissom will hit about 42 career homeruns and at some point be the number utility option on a forgettable Pirates team.
The truth shall set you free.
Did you manufacture the roller blades for Christmas request as pretext to bring up your sexual orientation to your parents?? I mean, you could have just asked for a gift card from Dick’s Sporting Goods and bypassed the issue altogether. And also straight people roller blade as well so I don’t really see the connection necessarily. (Confession: I am a straight man who roller-bladed not gracefully circa 2001-2003).
Ignorant – Maybe it’s just me, but I’m kinda perplexed as to why a 40-year-old man would be asking his parents for anything for Christmas.
Part of the fun of Christmas is thinking about what someone might really like, and then surprising them with it. Otherwise just give them cash so they can buy what they want themselves. What’s the point of a grown man TELLING people what to buy?
Seems cheap
Seems like AA paid full price for a Sale.
Actually he did get a Sale. Marked down to 10.5 million from 27.5.
Even better – $10M of that is deferred until 2039
And he didn’t even have to sit outside the store Thanksgiving night
Certainly makes it better for Atlanta with Boston eating $17 mil. But it’s still a good move for Boston. It’s a matter of when not if Sale gets hurt. And if he’s hurt at the trade deadline you get nothing. Makes tons of sense to save $10 mil and get Grissom now
Look at the deferred money… it was a steal if CS pitches 100 innings
Who says the Braves picked up the deferred money? Red Sox retained $17 mil, which could include all of the deferred money
Sportrac has the Braves responsible for the deferred money. The Redsox are also paying a large amount of deferred money from 2034-2038
AA got his 5th starter for 10 million and Grissom, could be a good deal for both teams.
Very true. And contrary to what many fans believe that’s how trades are supposed to be, with each side getting something they need out of it.
I’ve got a devil’s haircut, in my mind
WHAT IN THE WORLD
Seems like a big over pay to me….a now oft-injured pitcher for a young player with some definite offensive upside. The 7 or 8 games Sale did pitch last season he was pretty good however
I like the move from Atlanta’s side. Grissom didn’t have a position in Atlanta. He couldn’t handle short, and Atlanta just went out and got a young LF. His greatest value to Atlanta was as a trade chip.
Sure, Sale has some durability questions. I’m good with the gamble though because Atlanta didn’t have to give up AJSS or Waldrep. Had they traded for Cease, it’d have taken one of those pitchers to get him. I don’t view Cease as without questions, either.
Yeah I agree, just would’ve like to see Grissom used as trade chip for a bigger addition. Sale will hopefully help this season….But looking forward No Fried, Morton, Sale and now Grissom as a trade chip leaves the 2025 rotation looking pretty bleak
I’m just not sure who the “bigger addition” would have been in the current landscape. Burnes would’ve taken a bigger package, and he’s not a long-term add either. Cease and/or Bieber are the names you see floated, but I wasn’t enthusiastic about Atlanta parting with AJSS or Waldrep for either guy. Who did you have in mind?
One thing with Sale, he does have the option for ’25. If he pitches well, the Braves may exercise it. We also need to see how AJSS and Waldrep develop. One -or both- could be of some help. I also haven’t given up on Atlanta extending Max, though I will admit the chances don’t look great.
Bieber, Burnes, Cease or Glasnow for trade candidates and in that order as far as costs to get and abilities for me personally. But I didn’t realize the 2025 option, that’s a little better if Sale can hold up.
I am quite satisfied with this deal. Absolutely no way did the braves need to give up AJSS or Waldrep with the uncertainty of the 2025 rotation coming.
Hopefully Sale has his best season in several years AND his option for 2025 kicks in.
I know it makes sense for us but losing your favorite player again stinks!!
Yeah I feel the same way
I don’t like losing him either as he was one of my favorites, but I get the move.
So …sale replaced verdugo for you?
Tell me about it…
Jason Marquis Mo Vaughn Grissom
Someone say my name?
Yes, parksy78 said your name.
Tim “The Ripper” Owens?
Yes Mo, you’ve been traded to Pro Football Rumors. Please clean out your locker.
Denny Crane !!!!!
CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
HOT STOVE
Sale and Montas is like left-over stew on the Hot Stove.
Kind of surprised at this move. I guess the Sox see a lot of upside potential with Grissom, despite his mediocre showing to this point.
Or they dumped a bunch of money for an injury prone pitcher who was mediocre last year
And got a player who isn’t a full timer yet. This strikes me as an admission by the RS that they don’t intend to compete aggressively this season.
Yes it’s a recognition that there’s a good chance they’ll be a last place team. But they are also prioritizing players who can help now because there’s also a chance they could be decent. They’ll also most likely sign another lefty starter to replace Sale
This is a great deal by Boston. They could be a last place club this year despite arguably being better than anyone in the AL central.
Grizz gives them a legitimate controllable infield option well past the control of Sale. I’m surprised they got him back for Sale. I’d guess they ate a good chunk of his cash.
Those warning track fly balls in Atlanta are now XBHs off the Monster.
LOL… The mighty AL East… Will every AL East team get swept again in the playoffs?
No doubt they had a poor showing in the playoffs, but you still have to win to get there to lose.
the sawx would fight the Royals for last place in the AL Central, as well.. they’re so bad…
Agree. Red Sox suck and will finish last in AL East again.
At least the Al central won a playoff series this year. AL East is junk
If you think the AL Central isn’t junk just because a team won a playoff series, then… good god you’re a f***ing moron.
@BrianStrowman9: Can’t believe anyone who’s seen Grissom at SS or 2B can believe that he’s a “legitimate controllable infield option.” Controllable—right on that. Legitimate infield option? Absolutely not.
Grizz is not a SS. 2B? All day.
I guess it depends on how much you don’t want to see how Trevor’s Story ends at 2B. Every new GM has to clean house and accept responsibility for the poor deals from their predecessor, and this is part of Breslow’s work.
His bat is valuable. What’s not valuable is another DH
Maybe they’ll flip him, or move someone else. Too young to call him a DH. Perhaps 2B? They’re not done yet.
Mediocre?
Yes Sale was mediocre… Are you saying he wasn’t?
3.92 ERA over his last 9 starts and even battling through some injury issues, he still is getting a lot of the same ratios that’s made him successful (11.0 SO/9; 2.5 BB/9) though losing some on his FB. Considering his contract only represents an additional $500K present-day costs (due to deferred money) — I’d say that’s not mediocre, especially considering he’d be a 3-4 SP in the rotation (depending on Morton/Elder).
The surprise is that the Braves moved Grissom for a washed pitcher.
I mean, it’s AA so it really shouldn’t come as that much of a surprise.
11 K per 9 IP — pretty solid for a “washed [up] pitcher”, especially considering he has an affordable ’25 option that gives ATL flexibility if they lose Fried (FA), Morton (retirement, FA) after next season. Compare what ATL gave up for Sale vs. what TEX gave up for Scherzer…
Grissom is still 22 yrs old. He’s hit for average in little bit of time in MLB. I’m Minors he’s shown to have a little bit of both speed and power especially for a middle IF. Biggest concern I’d say would b his fielding so far at big league level.
Any judgement tho I’d sayvis premature with his age.
VG will be your 2nd baseman
He looks like he can hit
I like this trade for the red sox. I wouldnt call grissom’s showing mediocre especially considering his age.
For tbose who watch the Braves regularly, Is he that bad in the field where he has no position at all?
He’s not done well at SS but fine 2B. He’s athletic just blocked at every position in ATL.
@Ma4170: He has no ability to play a competent ML middle infield. No first step, weak arm, stumblebum footwork. Might be able to hide him at 3B on a 2nd Division club. Personable kid, great attitude. Hope he succeeds, but he’s a punch and judy contact hitter w/no defensive aptitude. Good luck to him.
I watch the Braves like every day, Grissom has all the tools needed to play SS. He has lapses is what I call it. You will see him make a great play and the next play he will overthrow first base. Three innings later there will be a ground ball hit to him and he will fumble it. I tell you what I think, I would walk up to him and tell him you are my ss, you are going to be there, now go make plays. Right now he’s not a mlb ss, he could be though. The Braves May regret this trade and they might not
Grissom doesn’t have all the tools, imo. Someone said before that he has lead feet, and I agree. I also think he has a lead glove. I don’t blame him for his positioning problems and throwing decisions when he played 2B because he’d never played it before, but I just don’t think he has the reflexes or instincts to play a good middle infield. He’ll need to keep his BA and OBP up because I don’t think he’ll develop much power. That’s not his game. I hope I’m totally wrong, because he seems to be a great guy.
Watching him play SS and 2B and hearing Wash talk about his improvement reminded me of the Moneyball scene where they’re hitting routine grounders to Hatteberg at 1B and praising him when he fielded it.
Red Sox doing salary dumps. Braves lose absolutely nothing. Whatever they get out of Sale is a bonus
Except the money they have to pay Chris Sale
But you’re not going to find a better starter on the market than Sale for 1 yr at whatever money the Sox included
My guess is they knocked it down to maybe 16m
Sale at 1 year 16m is better than anything you can get in free agency
Braves got Grissom’s best years then dealt it
Also, simply getting rid of Grissom would have made the Braves better. To get rid of him and get Sale back with some money is a win
The Reds JUST signed someone for cheaper than Sale who has a better arm and similar injury risk. You are just wrong.
Braves got Grissom’s best years?? He’s 22!!!! Log off dude lol
Think your giving up too quickly on Grissom, over .325 avg and 400+ops minors at 22 is pretty good
How about 10.5 million? Even better.
I wouldn’t make a bet on Montas over Sale this year.
Montas has a much better arm than Sale at this point. I’d probably take Montas but it’s close
You’re thinking Marquis Grissom, right.
@Camden, I don’t think the $ is quite the issue for the Sox. With their needs relying on Sale who has once in 4 years barely exceeded 100 IPs and that also being only time in 4 years he’s exceeded 50 innings, just to risky.
Vaughn fills a need and has a lot of upside. Sale’s spit can be filled with someone who can more easily be relied on.
As for ATL, they can pitch Sale on a ton of rest even preserve him on IL for obscure injuries. If they get to Oct with a healthy Sale, it would immensely help quell some of Postseason woes. I like this trade for both teams.
Braves could get the same results from MadBum for free and kept grissom. Braves should’ve gotten something better for him.
“Braves got Grissom’s best years then dealt it”
His best years!? The kid’s 22. Maybe if he’d been properly developed he would’ve lived up to his potential in Atlanta.
You think montas has a better arm than sale?…go check the baseball cards..maybe you should log off.sale and montas have both been hurt but sale is the 7 time allstar
Travis, come back when you have any idea how to project players!
What does the back of the baseball card have to do with anything? I guess Pedro Martinez has a great arm right? Someone should maybe sign him…. Oh wait we’re talking about the present day. Montas is 4 years younger and throws 2 mph harder. You sound foolish
Montas has a much better arm than Sale at this point.
========================
Unfortunately, even as a fan, it is impossible to trust Sale’s health. But he has a much better arm than Montas. He had a 125/29 K/W in only 102.2 IPs.
Getting people out is decidedly NOT a problem.
“Maybe if he’d been properly developed he would’ve lived up to his potential in Atlanta”
If there’s one thing Atlanta is known for, it’s for not properly developing young position players.
Montas is 4 years younger, more recently had a full workload, has less mileage and throws 2 mph harder. He objectively has the better arm lol
Both pitchers are past their prime, with injury issues. No way to how they will perform, but both have upside if form returns!
LOL! Freeman, Albies, Riley, Harris, Acuna
Grissom was okay at 2B filling in for Albies in 2022. He raked in AAA in 2023, but they used him mostly at SS where he has insufficient range. As a 2B he’ll do fine for Boston and hit plenty before they have to pay him very much.
The Braves must have offered $10m to a lot of free agent starters and been turned down. Another lefty behind Fried is great in their division. I’m assuming they checked Sale’s medicals closely before doing this deal. Here’s hoping they have reason to pick up his $20m. option for 2025.
Joe – Getting Sale away from Cora will significantly improve his chances of recovering his old achievements. He really never had a significant injury until he played for Cora. His stuff looked good last year but a pitching coach philosophy change may be exactly what he needs to be dominant and pitch 150 innings. I’m rooting for Sale to be healthy and pitch like he did before Cora.
Huge Madbum fan but he’s washed. Hard decline last 3 season and this year he was awful.
He objectively has the better arm lol
===================
Montas career ERA+ is 105. Sale’s worst ERA+ was 106.
I’d make a wager that Sale has a better ERA this year.
Getting Sale away from Cora will significantly improve his chances
=========================
Getting him away from the RS will be the only big difference.
Imagine looking at career ERA+ to determine who currently has the better arm…. Yikes!
Properly developed,,,? Grissom spent part of the summer in NoLA with Ron Washington focusing on him in becoming the starting SS, and still Arcia won out. His defense couldn’t even stick at 2B when he filled in for an injured Albies (they added Nicky Lopez, eventually). Kid had a long leash and had some opportunities in a deep lineup, but his D never got passable grades. Maybe if he were an OF in Philly would his D be decent when Schwarb is the alternative.
Getting him away from the RS **defense**
Imagine looking at career ERA+ to determine who currently has the better arm…. Yikes!
=====================
Even without looking, I’m guessing that there are -0- combinations of years where Montas has a better ERA+ than Sale.
But that said, I would gladly make a bet of honor on who has the better ERA in 2024. How about the loser signs off for Oct-Dec 2024?
Since when does ERA show the better arm? Sake could easily have the better ERA and probably like half the amount of innings
Bet it makes Golioto a wash with the chip in money for Sale.
Right on the money!
One year of Sale is not hurting the Braves. I like the potential of this and Grissom didn’t have a seat at the table.
Braveslifer,
Exactly. I’ll miss Vaughn, but like you said, it’s been hard to shoehorn him in to find him enough playing time at an appropriate position. Could be a win-win for both clubs, or even if it’s a lose-lose, it would be a small-scale lose-lose.
It is way to early to say what team won on this deal. Let’s revisit it a year to 3 years and talk about it…. I think it might be a trade that is good for both teams . AA makes another move nobody saw coming I really like his style …. I wish A A was Yankees GM not many if any better GM in game currently imo
$10.5. $10M of his contract is deferred until 2039. Does that mean it’s only $500K this year?
Sale also gets a $1M bonus for being traded.
Braves got 17m from RS… plus part of the salary is deferred… Braves basically got him for free
$10 mil plus Grissom is basically free?? Alright then…
Um grissom doesnt suck..so how is thst free exactly?
And Grissom. Other than that, they have lost nothing!!
Someone doesn’t understand opportunity cost lol
Be sweet to see sox roll mayer into Corbin burnes now
No chance the Sox give up future value for a rental. They’re not close enough to the top of the division for that to be worth it
Depends on the amount of money
Braves lose Grissom. That’s far from “absolutely nothing.”
@tero, that’s funny. Funny that you think Grissom won’t hit waivers shortly
Redsox won’t dfa him yet. No real mid infield options other than him and Rafaela this season.
Actually, I believe he’s a below mid infielder
Waivers? Lol. You’re clueless.
Grissom has had a couple opportunities to stick on the 25 man roster and didn’t. Braves didn’t see a fit for him.
Braves lose a good prospect and Red Sox keeping a large chunk of sales salary.
You’re not a fan of Vaughn Grissom? He seems like a pretty decent major leaguer with a great minor league record.
The Braves were desperate to get rid of Grissom. To get Chris Sale out of it, and money, they are probably rolling around the office laughing about it
You are either a troll or an idiot. Probably both. Learn the game
desperate? that’s a funny way of spelling reluctant
Camden you just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about lol. Nobody is “desperate” to get a rid of a fairly highly regarded 22 year old minor leaguer. Even if they personally aren’t high on him. You’re acting like they were trying to offload his contract…. He’s owed ZERO guaranteed dollars…
Travis, it’s you that doesn’t have a clue. Most people don’t. Most people will agree with your post, because most people are clueless about how to project players. They literally have no idea what’s happening
I go through this all the time with casuals/clueless hordes of fans. Welcome to the list! It’s always hilarious when people pounce on my “unusual” posts, which come from a place of actually knowing what’s going on
I’ll be laughing at you when Grissom hits the option/waiver wire route, trust me
He’s 22! Yippee! Typical casual take
Haha, you actually think Grissom is a “fairly highly regarded 22 year old minor leaguer”
I can’t stop laughing at people who have no idea how to evaluate athletes
I’ve seen Grissom for many years as a Mets fan. He’s always been a terrible prospect. To flip him for Sale and get 17million back is a stroke of genius
I’ve said from day one Grissom isn’t even a prospect
Come back when you have any clue what’s happening
Trust me, most of you are just doing guesswork, and have no idea how to look at Grissom and project his future
The Braves traded him because they’re one of the few organizations that actually know how to evaluate athletes
Also, talk to any Braves fan and they’ll tell you Grissom “stinks”
These are the same people that argued with me when I said on the day he was called up wasn’t even a legitimate prospect. Now they “get it”
Your posts come from a place of actually knowing what’s going on? That’s a hilarious take
Lol all that drivel with absolutely nothing of substance…. You are the utmost casual. Imagine saying such casual things like “the Braves got Grissom’s best years”, and the “Braves were desperate” to get rid of a 22 year old who’s owed zero guaranteed dollars. That’s actually worse than most casual takes LOL
Lol sure thing man you obviously know more than GMs and talent evaluators. Maybe go take their jobs since you can evaluate Grissom much better than they can. You’re a clown and your comments are embarrassing
Yeah this Camden dude is beyond clueless lol
Camden, I actually wanted Grissom to get a shot at LF this year. He had no shot at an infield position for us, but I do think his bat will play
Travis, they traded Grissom for the same reason they traded Heyward. Once the young juice and young life wears off you’re left with a heavy, slow core
It’s not much different than a pitcher losing velo and stuff
They rode Grissom’s young energy for whatever they could get out of it and then dealt him when he was about to settle into his core
He has lead feet, obviously, and the bat speed won’t be what it was once he settles into his core
He was a terrible prospect
Come back when you have an idea how to evaluate a players core
Braves do this ALL THE TIME. They ride young energy and then deal them when they’re around 23 if they don’t have projectsble cores
Oh absolutely I can evaluate better than many GMs. I see the mistakes they make all the time. Obviously so can the Braves front office
If you’re shopping around Sale and willing to add 17m and you end up with Grissom, you have absolutely no clue what you’re doing
Same with the Dodgers who unloaded Vivas and got a better prospect in Sweeney back
A few front offices know what they’re doing. The Red Sox clearly have no idea what’s going on
@atl, trust me, it won’t. It’ll be worse than Heyward after his downfall
It’s a waivers wire guy. Why do you think he was dealt? The Braves front office people are literally popping open champagne tonight and celebrating they flipped Grissom for Sale and got 17m
Travis, when Grissom gets DFA’ed off the Red Sox 40- man I’ll be thinking about you and laughing about you, just as I always do when I get in these arguments
“Oh absolutely I can evaluate better than many GMs”. Thanks for giving me a good laugh. At least now I know this has all been a giant troll job
@Camden, sorry but that’s an absolutely ignorant comment. In no reality does Grissom hit waivers unless he goes full Wander Franco. And for anyone on here to type that they are better evaluator of talent than any let alone many GMs is pretty funny.
Obviously you are trolling and can’t truly believe that. But the fact that you would even type it kind of makes me feel sorry for you. If you can’t grasp how ignorant that makes you sound, it’s pretty scary….
You can evaluate better then most gms? Yo is this guy for real?? If you are such a talent evaluator what are you doing on mlbtr commenting and responding to every post that doesn’t agree with you? You have any idea how stupid you sound right now?
Salary dump? They picked up 17 mil..hows that a dump
Wow how on earth do the Red Sox intend to compete trading Sale? I understand Sale is risky but at least with him MAYBE you have an ace.
His days of being an ace are long gone.
Probably but if he’s not the ace then who is?
Not every team has an “ace”
He’s made 31 starts over the last 4 seasons and hasn’t looked anything like an ace. Boston is trying to open up a longer competitive window. The ALE is loaded. I have them or the Jays finishing last.
Bello
Yeah your team doesn’t have an ace. And until it does it won’t be a legit contender.
At least with Sale the Red Sox MAYBE had an ace. Now they definitely don’t. Why sign Giolito if you are going to trade Sale???
how bout waiting till the offseason is over there’s plenty of players still unsigned.
It’s not 2014 anymore. Shane Bieber and Chris Sale aren’t aces.
@BrianStrowmang – Sale owns a
12.07 K/9, 2.38 BB/9, 3.56 FIP and 3.27 xFIP
over those 4 years.
The ERA hasn’t been there and he’s been just constantly injured so there’s every reason to be skeptical, but to say he’s so far removed from ace looking?
cause sale is no longer good an worth having on the rooster that why, even if he was healthy he is a liability at this point, just cause he used to be an ace doesn’t mean he still is, he is garbage these days
EVERY team has an ace. The reason they are called aces is because they are a team’s #1 starter. Every team has a #1 starter. A pitcher might not be an ace on another team, but if he is the #1 starter on his team then he is an ace,
Shane Bieber won the Cy Young Award in 2020 and didn’t even make his MLB debut until 2018. What the hell are you talking about?
I would take Sale or Bieber over Giolito that’s for sure.
Also trades on the table.
@Joel, Sale has barely pitched 100 innings once in last 4 years. That’s also only season he managed even 50 innings. Having an Ace that can’t pitch does not help a team either.
Why say 4 years when in 2020 nobody pitched 100 innings?
He’s been hurt.
Why sign Giolito if you are just going to trade Sale???
Bieber was 19 in 2014
lol I know. Not a serious comment. Just living in the past
I thought you got him mixed up with Kluber
lol nope. I should’ve said 1996 or something to be clear it wasn’t meant to be taken literally.
martras
Yes. I stand by my comment. He’s averaged barely over 5 innings a start. It’s very difficult to interpret a ton from 2019-2021 where he barely pitched any games on a per season basis. Less than a handful of starts in most years.
But he’s not the same Chris Sale. That violent arm motion/delivery he has was never going to be conducive for a long career. That was always fairly obvious in my opinion. I don’t believe he’s durable to go deep into games and the stuff has backed up a bit.
ATL could hit the lottery and get #2ish type numbers from him but if you’re betting on sale’s durability——I’m not with you.
Ifcresox: I’m not the “grammar police” but come on. My 8 yr old laughed when I showed him your comment. He said “I wrote better than that a couple of years ago”.
@Joel, probably cus he pitched 0 innings in 2020….
Makes tons of sense to sign giolito and trade Sale. This could be the last chance to get anything for Sale. They’ll sign someone like Montgomery or Iminaga to replace Sale. Montgomery plus 6 years of Grissom is significantly better than a single year of Sale….
Sure if they sign Montgomery the team is better. But I doubt that actually happens.
Even if it doesn’t it still makes sense to turn 1 year of an injury prone pitcher into 6 years of Grissom plus around $10 mil in savings
Saving 10 million only makes sense for ownership. It doesn’t make the team better.
It does if they reinvest it. Doesn’t have to be Montgomery. Obviously if they pocket the $10 mil it doesn’t matter
The Red Sox spent a ridiculous amount of money on payroll last year to finish in last place. They don’t owe anyone anything. You act as if that money has to be spent when it doesn’t.
The Red Sox should be selling and aiming for 2025 and beyond.
I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make. Money gets you players and the Red Sox need another starter. You’re speaking nonsense
If the Red Sox planned on competing in 2024 and wanted a top end starter why did they just trade Sale?
You explain that.
Why are you so confused? You want them to plan for the future but then question them trading 1 year of risky Sale for 6 years of Grissom? They signed giolito who’s a much safer bet to eat innings and if he performs well he could help them win or be flipped. They clearly see they aren’t division favorites so they’re planning for the future while not totally punting on the present. It’s a smart plan. They will almost definitely acquire another starting pitcher within the next month or two.
I think they will sign another pitcher. But there is a huge difference between signing Montgomery to a giant contract than giving Paxton a 1 or 2 year deal. I think they end up with Paxton and probably end up trading him in July when they are out of contention.
I’d take Paxton plus 6 years of Grissom over 1 year of Sale every day of the week
Why sign Giolito if you are just going to trade Sale???
===========================
Just spitballing here, but to acquire a 2B for the next 6 years?
Why would a team who is trying to win in 2024 care about 2029? Other contending teams aren’t trading away potential aces for prospects.
The Red Sox are trying to burn the candle at both ends. And that never works.
Why are you talking about 2029? Pretty sure Grissom can play this year…. And every year through 2029…. They could easily be a BETTER team in 2024 if they replace Sale in the rotation and are much better positioned for the future. Why are you so stuck on this stance? Their plan is obvious, and smart considering their current talent level. You sure no other contending teams are trading aces for prospects? The Brewers and Guardians are literally considering the same thing with Burnes and Bieber while the Rays ALREADY did the same thing with Glasnow. These players are significantly better and younger and safer than Sale yet they’re all on the block. Have you been living under a rock?
The Rays are poor. If the Brewers trade Burnes it means they are not trying to compete in 2024. And the reason the Guardians would trade Bieber is they have loads of young pitching and are also poor.
The Red Sox gm I think his name is Breslow said part of the reason why Sale was cool with the trade is because he was going to a world series contender in Atlanta. Why would he say that if he thought the Red Sox were a world series contender???
He’s fine being traded to a good team…. It wasn’t his choice to be traded…. Has nothing to do with how good Boston is…. Sale didn’t demand a trade lol. Geez dude try keeping up. Anthopolous himself admitted this was a big risk. Brewers are trying to compete same way the Red Sox are. It’s called competing while not mortgaging your future. Kind of like the Dbacks last year…. And just cause the Red Sox have more money doesn’t mean they don’t have a budget. The Red Sox can acquire a safer version of Sale on the free agent market while adding 6 years of Grissom. It’s mind boggling you can’t understand the logic behind this
@Joel, that is what is called a status quo statement. People try and read too much into when these guys are saying exactly what they are supposed to say.
You really think they re gonna take risk of tarnishing their image and say how they truly feel?? Not saying that he does not feel that way, only he knows that. Point being he said exactly what he should have in the situation.
Why would a team who is trying to win in 2024 care about 2029?
===========================
Unless you know something I don’t, I expect to be rooting for the RS in 2029. I’d also guess that the RS have a better chance of winning a WS in the 5 years from 2025-2029 than they do in the single year of 2024.
The Braves did this deal because they are trying to win in 2024. That was not the Red Sox motivation for this move.
Well duh. A team projected to win their division can take this risk. A team projected to finish at the bottom cannot. Makes perfect sense. Doesn’t mean they aren’t also trying to win.
This. Sale today in comparison is like when Cole Hamels was with the Rangers & Cubs. A solid #2 or #3, but “ace”. No.
The problem with Sale is his availability. There’s no way you can reasonably expect 30 starts. If you get 20-25 then that’s a win. The Braves have some pitching depth & no use for Grissom but I did think they’d try to put him in a deal for something larger.
I guess the asking price on guys like Cease and Burnes was beyond what AA wanted to give up.
The Braves only need him healthy for the playoffs. The whole season is a tune up for him.
A solid number 2 or 3 probably would be the Red Sox ace.
I dint get it. Why sign Giolito and then trade Sale?
Would you rather have Sale & nothing or Grissom & Giolito?
That’s the equation that Breslow was calculating. Gio might be gone at the deadline for more spects if he pans out and the Sox aren’t there.
I don’t believe the Sox were ever going to buy themselves into being a WS contender this off-season w/ how the division stacks up currently.
Except those were not the only two choices. There are plenty of guys currently on the open market that could be the equal of Grissom in 2024. Weak hitting infielders are not scarce. And paying $10 MM to get rid of Sale basically means Giolito is getting $30 MM for 2024.
I’d rather just keep Sale and hope for recovery and then sign an open market infielder like Kolten Wong or Michael Chavis to a cheap deal and hope for a rebound.
I think the deal was a good one for the Red Sox as far as value goes. But I just don’t think it makes sense for them. They needed both Giolito and Sale to at least pretend they had a couple top of the rotation pitchers. Now they just have Giolito thats not good enough under even a best case scenario. Why sign Giolito,especially to a deal where you are stuck with him in 2025 if he isn’t good in 2024.
Who said the Sox are competing?
They weren’t contending with Sale, especially if you’re banking on him being an ace. 31 starts over the last 3 years, and won’t ever throw a meaningful number of innings again. The Braves will piggy back with him, and be happy if they get 100-125 innings as their #5
who said they plan to compete?, and seriously you think sale would have had some say in that, he has barely pitched since he signed his extension and when he has you never knew what you were getting, if we get anything from grissom it’s a win, as sale was barely on the mound
Sale hasn’t been an Ace since 2019
He hasnt pitched like an ace or for a full season since 2019..losing sale in the rotation is not a big deal.hope he has better luck in atl
Sale is a potential ace. Lots to love other than health. Might not get 200 innings because all they care about is playoffs. Free agency or club option picked up he should be motivated.
Might not? Definitely won’t. There’s not even a 0.1% chance Sale throws 200 innings. Potential ace? He was one, 10 years ago. That ship has long since Saled away. Mis-spelling on purpose.
The option is only worth it if he’s healthy, but then it’s 20 million to bank on 2 straight healthy years for a then *checks notes* 36 year old who hasn’t been healthy since 2019
Only a sith deals in absolutes.
While it might not be an absolute, you used the word “possible” very loosely. Sale will be going into age 35 season, let’s be real it’s highly unlikely he ll be an Ace.
Tis why I gave it a .009% chance?
@Joel P Sale won’t help the Red Sox make the postseason as much as Grissom might over for the next 5 years.
It’s also reasonable to think that the Red Sox believe they got the last good season of Sale’s career.
They don’t plan to compete. They are easily the worst team in the al east. Moving sale for Grissom and save 10 mil is a long term deal that they hope pays off to a long term 2b/ss. There rotation needs help but they still have Bello, Whitlock, Crawford, signed Giolito who they can count on to eat more innings then Sale, maybe bring back Paxton and there 5 isn’t horrendous. Winckowski is also in play for the rotation. Also maybe Sale wanted out, and out of respect for him they moved him? Which is a possibility I believe he did have to waive his nmc. For whatever reason they wanted to move on from sale, getting a prospect and saving 10 mil is a good deal to me
I know it might be best for the team but losing your 2 favorite players in back to back off seasons is very triggering!!!
Life as a Red Sox fan is rough. At least in the last 4 years
It could be worse if you had on different SOX. Losing Sale for two prospects who’ve missed has hurt. Smart move, though, for both ATL & BOS.
ATL gets a wildcard ace that if healthy in October could be a difference maker in a short series. I’d have to rate ATL as the heavy favorite for a WS appearance.
BOS gets a bat first youngster to team with Mayer and Rafaela up the middle…all for a very low cost over 5 years, excellent long-term play. It also saves $10M this year, a number that when invested now entirely pays for Sale’s deferred money they must cover starting in the 2030’s, totally freeing them from that future cost. Money saved now can allow a couple of huge signings once their kids are up for good.
Pity the small market fan.
I don’t think it’s best for team. If trying to contend I want Sale. Grissom looks very average to me. Maybe they find a away to tap into his power potential. If not he isn’t moving the needle.
Don’t like any of this. sale is past his prime by a few years.
He looked pretty sharp at the end of the year. Honestly seems like a smart deal for the Braves. Worst case is they lost someone they didn’t seem to have room for for nothing. Best case they get a strong #3 or better for the year.
Or they lost a chance to package Grissom for something better.
I don’t know… at least they did something. It might not be my favorite choice but Sale has a chance to rebound I suppose.
I can only imagine AA checked out other SP options and wasn’t onboard with them before he did this. I’m just glad they at least got a SP rather than none.
I’m guessing Grissom has been talked about by Atlanta all off season. Obviously he did not have the value you expected. He will fit in well with a 1B, SS and 3B who are, at best, average in the field. Just hope that Boston doesn’t sign any ground ball pitchers. I expect Grisson to hit, but he seems a strange fit for Boston’s beleaguered infield.
My main concern is that he’s too similar a pitcher to Fried. Hopefully they’ll have Strider pitch between them with Charlie at #4
Doesn’t look too far past it. Getting a full season is the problem. Pitching wise he will be starting playoff games if available.
@YourDreamGM Getting a full season won’t be the aim, though. Having Sale healthy in October will be.
The Braves don’t need Sale to win the East.
You were right. They needed 3 Sales if they wanted to win the East.
At least we got a 2nd basemen in the deal
his defense is atrocious though
@Tristin
his defense is lousy at SS, but it looks like he’s able to adequately play 2B though, which is where he’s likely slotted in now
@Tristin not at 2B, he’s actually average or slightly above there.
They’d be better defensively playing Grissom at SS and Story at 2B. Story doesn’t have the arm strength for SS anymore.
That’s nonsense, he had surgery last season and his arm handled short just fine
It’s also nonsense because shortstop is Grissom’s worst defensive position.
The Braves have quite a bit of depth. None are sure things of course but they have Ynoa and Anderson back from injury, top prospects Waldrep and Smith-Sawyer, and young 5 starter types Dodd, Vines and Winnans. With Sale on the team, the Braves have 7 legitimate options to take starts when injuries happen.
I was just thinking about Ynoa. Sure it’s been a minute, but he was cooking when he was up and given consistent starts. Hope to see him this year.
If Sale can stay healthy makes the Braves even more dominant. But that’s a huge If.
have you watched sale pitch recently, no you haven’t cause he can’t stay healthy, and when he does, it is ugly
Horrible move in my opinion. Could have gotten a lot more for him.
Yes if you mean Boston. A contender should have been all over Sale for 10m. Fortunately Boston is severely over valuing Grissom.
Absolutely
Gotta be clearing space for Montgomery, otherwise why?
That’s exactly it. Swap out Sale for Montgomery for basically the same $ and you get Grissom out of it
Because Chris Sale is unreliable and this was an opportunity to get out from his contract
Montgomery or Shota Imanaga. And it gives the Sox a decent option for 2B for the next few years.
Only saving 10m. Boston is a mega market. Shouldn’t have to clear salary at all unless it is resetting the tax before year 3.
You’re missing the unreliable part
Dude they’re saving the money to use on a different, better pitcher. Not to pocket the extra cash
I like that the Braves are getting another starter they could use one. But I think Sale is a better fit on a team with more depth than the Braves have.
I really don’t like this trade much for either team.
Strider, Waldrep, AJSS, Morton, Fried, Elder, and Reynaldo Lopez.
7 other options available is pretty good depth for any ML club.
Waldrep isn’t ready. Lopez hasn’t started in a while. Thats not much depth at all.
@Joel
How many teams in baseball have that much depth?
Nobody’s #7 starter is a sure thing.
@ Joel P — How many teams have their presumed SP4 or SP5 (Elder) be a reigning 2023 All-Star…?
Strider placed 4th in ’23 Cy voting, Fried 2nd in ’22 (coming off ’23 injuries), Morton and now Sale. Lopez might not have started games in awhile, but he has just as many 30-start seasons as Fried (2) – if that tells you anything. I see him as more of a long RP with 5-6 GS starts on the year (starts they gave to Vines, Shuster, Dodd in ’23).
The Braves have a great team if everyone stays healthy. But there is little to no depth.
Strider
Fried
Morton
Sale
Elder
R. Lopez
Smith-Shawver
Waldrep
Vines
Ynoa
Winans
Ian Anderson (ETA: June)
Luis De Avila could also get some looks
That’s quite a bit of options — and only of them is over 35 (Morton).
Elder sucked in the second half last year.
Lopez is no longer a starter for a reason.
Shawver is unproven
Waldrep isn’t ready
The rest of those guys are nobodies.
Again if everyone is healthy it’s all good. But that depth sucks.
You’re mentioning guys for SP5 roles, including a 2023 All-Star (Elder). How many teams have a reigning All-Star up for the SP5 spot…?
Elder had a 5.49 ERA his last 15 starts of 2023.
Again if everyone is healthy the Braves have a heck of a team. But if there are a couple injuries they don’t have tje depth to cover them.
@Joel P – “If everyone is healthy” can be applied to every. single. rotation. Fangraphs agrees with you about ATL’s rotation, as they’ve stated they have the best 2024 rotation: si.com/mlb/braves/analysis/braves-now-project-to-h…
The Cardinals have Liberatore and Thompson ready to go immediately and will have Graceffo, McGreevy, Kloffenstein and Robberse all read7 by mid season. That’s depth.
@Joel P – That’s depth…? You discounted 2023 All-Star Bryce Elder’s last 15 starts in ’23 to the tune of 5.49 ERA, but Liberatore (who is ready to go immediately…) had a 2023 of 11 GS (61.2 IP) to the tune of 5.25 ERA, while NOT having the pre-AS numbers that Elder.
Liberatore is currently the Cardinals 6th or 7th starter. And the defense let him down his FIP was about a run lower than his ERA.
The Braves have quite a bit of depth. None are sure things of course but they have Ynoa and Anderson back from injury, top prospects Waldrep and Smith-Sawyer, and young 5 starter types Dodd, Vines and Winnans. With Sale on the team, the Braves have 7 legitimate options to take starts when injuries happen.
Forgot about Anderson & Ynoa. Braves have the depth to take this gamble for sure.
Gives them 2 bullets to use at the deadline if they need to also. (If AJSS/Waldrep haven’t established themselves by then)
I think if they put him in the bullpen it would be a good idea,
In any case, if they have him healthy come October, it’s another lefty to combat the lefty heavy LA lineup……if both teams can get past the first round..lol
4 playoff starters. Battle for 5th spot. 2 guys who can be long men. I know they got 4 playoff starters. Lopez seems like he could be the 5th or long men. I never consider someone with no service time as a option until late June unless it’s an emergency.
Sale for 10m and a expendable player is a sale price you simply can’t pass up.
Lopez should be a high leverage arm if he’s not going into the rotation IMO. He’s too good to be a long man
Interesting to see how much Sale has left
Let’s bet that sale returns to all star form goes 18-8 sub 3 era because Boston has lost the plot so yesterdays “move” is washed out given you just gave up yiyr second best pitcher
Who are you? Dude relax.
Why don’t you relax…. I’m making a comment free country still with freedom of speech bro……
Yes you have the right to spew nonsense and negativity and garbage. Continue on to fly your flag of freedom. I’m sure you earned it.
Get him for the team friendly extension before he shows too much.
Damn Breslow got some balls
If you believe the reports Bloom could have traded him at the deadline but decided to hold out for more. This is just righting a wrong
He would have some balls if he would Fire Cora’s cheating ***
Red Sox: We need pitching!
Also Red Sox:
If sale stays healthy its a win for the braves (and good for the Sox as well) the rich get richer as usual
Sale can’t stay healthy. That’s the rub.
I’m curious as to how many Front Offices even THOUGHT to do something like this?!?!?
Kudos to the Braves for probably doing nothing more than their due diligence. Which tells me there’s a lot of teams that are not.
Again, this is simply trying to pull a winning lottery ticket. If/When Sale gets hurt it kinda becomes a wash. But if he remotely pitches to league average — which if healthy he’d probably exceed that — this is a steal even with the money.
Or teams don’t want injury prone past his prime Sale with lots of money owed to him this year. In no universe is this a steal lol if anything the Red Sox got the better end of this
How is it a still they gave up a guy who has real value. Sale has to be at least avg plus to even think this trade made sense.
I am sure a lot of teams would trade a 2b they had absolutely zero use for to get a often injured but playoff starter for 10m with a 20m option. For some reason though Boston must have been in love with Grissom and him tapping into his power potential.
Nope that’s not it at all. You don’t understand opportunity cost. Just because someone doesn’t have value to you doesn’t mean they don’t have value elsewhere. Boston was in love with the idea of adding an interesting young prospect who can maybe play second base while also saving money which can be used towards a better/younger/safer left hand starter like Montgomery or Iminaga
Boston certainly finds him interesting and having lots of value. Atlanta couldn’t be happier that Boston feels this way.
And Boston is happy that Atlanta is willing to part with a 22 year old with great minor league stats for a 34 year old who can’t stay healthy and pitches like a 3-4 starter when he is. There’s a reason Boston had to send $17 mil in this deal….. Grissom is worth significantly more than Sale given their age, injury history and contracts. Your username is not checking out lol
I hope they are still happy 6 months year 2 years from now. I have nothing against Boston. Just they could have got more for Sale.
Even if Grissom doesn’t work out they didn’t give up much at all…. Could’ve gotten more for a 34 year old who can’t stay healthy and is pretty mediocre when he is healthy? No chance
Teams are only concerned with 2024 Sale.
Stupid stupid stupid
Wow. Potentially great pick up by the Braves for what is currently a below market expense for them- $10.5M for a starting pitcher is exceptionally cheap in the current market, whether he never makes a single appearance or he’s back to being a durable and productive player who starts 34 games, averages 7 innings per game, with a 1.95 ERA.
Holy smokes. I had a feeling Atlanta was going to move Grissom as soon as they made the Kelenic trade, but not like this. I’m not personally high on Grissom and I don’t think the Braves are either. Good challenge trade. If Sale wants that club option for next year picked up he needs to contribute at a very high level. Grissom gets a change of pace on a team that really needs him a lot more.
I like it for both teams.
I’m not high on Grissom either, but let’s keep it real – it has way more to do w hating on the Braves than if he’s good or not lol
They just needed a team stupid enough to over value him.
@DreamGM, I guess you don’t understand that value of team control.
Your takes are so consistently bad are based off things where you often don’t understand the rules, it’s like listening to Jim Kramer. Basically anything you can say one can just assume the opposite is true.
Team control probably wont be a big issue.
Yeah it’s not a big issue cus they have 6 years of team control with Grissom. They have a long time before its an issue….
Won’t be an issue because he likely won’t be a star.
He doesn’t have to be a star. If he becomes a solid big league starter and is under team control til 2030, that’s a solid inexpensive piece for a team.
If he becomes a solid big league starter and is under team control til 2030,
=========================
That’s BB101. Anyone who becomes a solid 6-year starter is more valuable than all but the most elite one-year players. Grissom could bust, but he could have easily 15+ WAR for us over the next 6 years.
FWIW, FG predicts 2.3 WAR in 471 ABs, or the equivalent of 2.9 in 600 ABs. If I get that as a rookie, I’d be real happy.
how is grissom as a fielder? sox could stand to improve their infield defense
Not good.
Rough.
Yeah so Story at short and Grissom at 2? I wonder how this plays out. Grissom is definitely not known for his bat, but he’s a great athlete and I’m sure he’d improve over a whole season in the majors.
Grissom is mostly known for his bat
Yeah, typo or auto correct there
Will be ok at 2B probably, but lost his job to Arcia last year because of his poor defense primarily.
Good intel, I did not know that. I remember being really surprised that he didn’t break camp as the starter. He was drafted as a “sleeper” in fantasy drafts only to not even end up in the bigs.
Grissom will do fine defensively for the Sox and I personally feel that you will be pleased with his hitting. The monster will add at least 20 hits for him. If he plays every day my prediction is .270 15 HR 70 RBI with 700+ OPS.
I think the knock on Grissom is that the defense isn’t great, so he wasn’t going to stick at short. The bat looks solid tho, just find a way to get him in the lineup.
Unplayable at SS. Very bad at 2B. Have to hope he can figure out the bat at the MLB level because he’ll never even be an average defender anywhere. It’s 100% why his value was only Chris Sale.
How is he horrible defensively, stats show that he made four errors in his rookie year and no errors last year and that’s over approximately 65 games over the two years
Not sure where you’re getting your stats but he made 6 errors in roughly 180 innings in the field this past season, which is very bad. That aside, errors are a pretty poor measure of defensive value. His advanced metrics are very bad, his range/instincts are bad, and he was shockingly incapable of turning double plays. He’s got a really long way to go to become only subpar.
He’d make a lot more errors if he had the range to get to average ground balls. He doesn’t.
He’s not been good at SS, but at 2B probably decent enough. He’d been reportedly getting better working down in Gwinnett.
He’s been pretty awful at 2B too. It’s not inconceivable he’ll hit enough to make up for that but it will hamper any value that he’s able to produce. I’ve just seen no signs of any improvement defensively the last two seasons (while he had access to Ron Washington). Seems pretty clear from his return that the rest if MLB was pretty aligned with his value too.
so you’re saying an infield of devers, story, grissom and casas might be subpar? at least they have strong defense in left field. wait…
Saving 10.5M. Wonder what this does for luxury tax purposes.
From a quick consult with Cot’s, it looks like it would put the Sox about $48MM BELOW the first CBT level of $237MM.
I would like to personally thank Chris for his time in this organization. As a new fan, he made me see the importance in pitching and played a big part in winning the championship in 2018. Though his later years weren’t what most fans hoped for, I am grateful he was here. When I went to Spring Training last year for the first time, he signed my jersey and took a picture with me. I just got it framed last week and am planning it on my wall.
I would like to thank you for your time here on behalf of Red Sox nation and Good Luck in Atlanta!!!!
Do you think Chris Sale reads the MLBTR comments or…?
Had to put it somewhere
Nice message! Hope he does well with Atlanta and I hope grissom does well with Boston!
You could write him a letter. Players don’t get many letters any more. He’d probably appreciate it.
Probably rather gamble on Giolito + Grissom than Sale staying healthy at this point
If that’s who u are betting on- you’ll get some good odds. Unless it’s an Al east last place finish
Why would I get good odds when Sale’s pitched 148 2/3 IP the last 3 full seasons?
My comment says more about Sale than Giolito and Grissom. I don’t think Giolito is anything special at this point. He’s a 4 these days, IMO.
My comment was in reference to its not enough. Red Sox have made some good moves but it’s not enough to compete in AL east
True. It might not even be possible for them to do enough in one offseason to catch up given where they’re coming from.
Except Giolito isn’t part of this equation. Its Sale and Giolito or Grissom and Giolito. I do admit that 2B has no answers in free agency.
It was stated with the assumption that they wouldn’t have traded Sale without signing Giolito.
Get a guy to plug in at the keystone and assuming they use the money for Monty. Probably a good move if it plays out that way.
Chris will be reunited with the WHITE SOX before the season for playoff run.
Ha ha ha, yeah right. Although Chris Getz was not GM when Sale became a clubhouse cancer. You never know.
Like this deal for both sides. Sale gets a fresh start on a great team, and Grissom is gonna be a star IMO.
Hopefully Sale can contribute by cutting up those boring Home & Road uniforms. Bring back the Cream & Powder Blues. Heck, the pinstripes & royal Blue. Anything.
Lol for the White Sox Sale reference
Atlanta had penciled in Vaugn Grissom to platoon with Jarred Kelenic in left field.
The Braves will assume a risk turning left field over to an unproven Kelenic on a full-time basis.
He wasn’t getting enough steady at bats to develop as a hitter. This lets them try to develop Kelenic and not hurt the value of Grissom more by having him potentially struggle in LF. It has risk, but it’s an excellent deal for both teams
The only position Grissom can play is second, it could work out well for both teams since Boston has second open. AA was blowing smoke saying Grissom was going to play lf / 3b.
Platoon outfielders are easy to find and cheap.
My guess is that Forest Wall will be the Kelenic platoon. He is cheap and already on the roster.
Going to be an odd platoon if it’s Kelenic/Wall. They’re both lefties.
@ Nashville you are correct. I did not look at Wall’s hitting side. Perhaps the Braves will roll with Leury Garcia in LF on the days a lefty is pitching. I can see them carrying Wall, Garcia, and Fletcher on the bench with the versatility that Garcia brings. They may still need 1 more power bat option off the bench though unless they play Ozuna in left and let d’arnaud or Murphy dh.
@seibu
Forest Wall might be doing drywall by July
You could almost say… Chris was on Sale in the bargain bin
AA is really taking a number of calculated risks this off-season.
Throughout all the injuries, Sale has routinely put up FIPs under 4 on the strength of outstanding strikeout and hit rates. If he can stay healthy for even 25 starts he’ll be a tremendous value at just $10 million for the Braves.
Lmao
What is your favorite mlb team? Just asking so I can lol at your teams moves, or lack there of. You never comment anything meaningful to mlbtr
Okay so let me see… Lucas for 19 possibly 39 or trade Sale and we eat 17.5 of it…and get another prospect??? Well what the hell I saw 4 in my lifetime….
Should have kept Bloom if this is the best they could do.
They paid $37 mil for Giolito and Jeter Downs replacement
@ Dumoster Divin Theo this is essentially what the Braves did to acquire Kelenic weeks ago. Take on money to buy a change of scenery prospect and fill out positions of need. The Braves trades essentially mean they took on extra money to get Sale, Fletcher, Kelenic, and 2 ptbnl for the money it would have cost just for 2 positions. It may not work, but the Braves filled 3 roles and didn’t drain their farm system to do it.
I am a fan of Grissom and wished he would have gotten a better chance to play, but he needs to play everyday instead of being a utility player and the Braves just couldn’t put him over Albies. He is a better defender at 2nd than SS. I do believe that he will hit well enough to stick at 2nd. Giolito will definitely cover the innings unless injured and maybe a chance at a team that has the talent to provide him runs on a regular basis will help cover his flaws.
this is essentially what the Braves did to acquire Kelenic weeks ago.
=========================
And the same thing they did with Carpenter. IMO, that’s a good use of a team’s financial muscle.
Absolutely blown away. Breslow is willing to trade! Love the trade, Sale has one year left and brings back a top 100 middle infield prospect. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t, at least he’s making an effort!
A former top 100 and was never in my top 100. Sale has 2 years left if healthy enough and Braves can use option.
never on your top 100? do you work for a prospect evaluating site or are just talking out of you rear end?
Neither
so you top 100 is from yourself a completely unqualified source. Got it.
Most accurate top 100 I am aware of.
given your responses and general lack of baseball knowledge that’s not surprising you’d give yourself that much credit. .
Not much credit. It’s more everyone else doing poorly. I believe I can improve more and increase the gap.
As for lack of knowledge I think most people would disagree with you there. I been here a long time. Many veterans may not like me but few would say I lacked knowledge. You on the other hand I never even noticed until today.
I’ll take the experts at BA that actually follow the sport over guy with a complete lack of self awareness and an ax to grind about Grissom every time;
You are welcome to do so but you will be choosing the much weaker analysis.
YourDreamGM – So saying he is bad is one thing but it proves nothing.
Now document how he is bad. I’ve reviewed his stats and they contradict with your analysis.
His defense at anywhere except 2B is not very good but Boston plays Devers so fielding skills are not important.
He’s not a power hitter but he hits for average and has a solid OBP which is all you need out of a 23 yr old 2B.in 2024.
To be able to afford expensive free agents to make up for all the Bloom mistakes over the past 4 years you have to have many slots that are controllable. Boston now has controllable players making less than $1MM at Catcher, First Base, Second Base, Left Field (Abreu), Center Field (Duran) and Right Field (Rafaela). Other than Devers $30MM, Story’s $23.3MM and Yoshida’s $18MM Boston isn’t spending much on offense for the next 5 years.
That means pitching can be well funded. Trading prospects and hopefully Yoshida could get them 2 expensive top notch Starting Pitchers. That makes getting Grissom part of an overall plan to fix the roster. He doesn’t have to be an all-star he just needs to play adequate defense and have a good OBP.
Now tell me why he can’t do that and point to specifics as to why you think it.
You are welcome to do so but you will be choosing the much weaker analysis.
==========================
So what’s your hitting prediction for 2024?
The Sale extension was one of the worst decisions ever for an exec. They extended him when they still had him under control and got essentially nothing for the $145mm .. in the meantime they lowball and/or lose Lester, Betts and Bogaerts .. it is these kinds decisions that resulted in 3 last place finishes in last 4 years
Looked like as good of a lock for TJ as you could find.
jkim319 – Get your facts straight. You have no idea what you are talking about. Sale had only experienced ONE year with Cora and he ruined his Cy Young effort in 2018 by mishandling him in July after the all-star start Sale had. DD signed him prior to Cora’s brain cramp about sending pitchers to String Training 2 weeks later because they pitched into early November. Cora is and has been an idiot his whole life. The Sale deal increased the AAV for Sale’s 8 years with Boston to $23MM a year. Most people who didn’t see the negative impact of Cora would agree that $23MM for 8 years of Sale is a GOOD deal. And it was but Cora ruined it just like he ruined the Price deal. He’s an idiot.
Should they have signed Lester, Betts and Bogaerts? YOU BET. Huge mistakes. Ownership has been pretty stupid over the years with their home town discounts. It’s bit them big time.
The bad finishes in 2020 thru 2023 is all on Bloom with an assist from Cora. The 2019 season is COMPLETELY on Cora because injuries happen but when a manager does something that increases injuries, it’s on him.
If you don’t know the mistakes that Cora is going to make, it’s not fair to claim a bad contract based on unforeseen stupidity. Also, Cora’s decision to change Sale’s mechanics mid season also led to his TJ surgery. The lost year of Sale due to delaying the surgery is on the 3 idiots who ran the team prior to Bloom and on Bloom for delaying the surgery.
Red Sox fans deserve an honest and knowledgeable manager and they haven’t had it with Cora. Red Sox fans also deserve a GM like DD who cared about winning. He’s doing it in Philly now when he should still be in Boston winning rings and not trading Mookie, Bogey, JD, Eovaldi, Benny and the others.
RS aren’t going to be legit contenders this year. They shed salary and they shed an injury – prone pitcher and get a young player with a high ceiling. Great move by RS. Seems more than risky for the Braves.
Braves dumped their trash and picked up a playoff starter for 10m. As long as their medical team is capable their isn’t much risk.
YourDreamGM – Being the knowledgeable guy you have professed to be wouldn’t you think Sale is more likely to be the scary left handed reliever who shuts down Ohtani and Freeman?
Not that knowledgeable. Just not as stupid as most. If healthy and innings aren’t an issue he will be Braves #3 or #4 depending on how Morton does and how loyal they are. Don’t know if he could shut down Ohtani or especially Freeman. I would use those words. More like decrease the odds.
I don’t believe they will be using Sale as a reliever if they hold onto a playoff spot. Unless it like game 7 and he isn’t rested enough to start.
Yep season starts tomorrow this is the roster. Okay let’s go.
Boston won this trade. Grissom is gonna be a very good 2B for them
Yeah I think they did too, I wish Grissom well. I’ll Never forget his first home run was over the green monster. Maybe Red Sox will get this guy to be able to field. Hopefully Sale will give us 70 innings lol.
Ron Washington, one of the best in the game, never got VG close to MLB defense ready.
@thedp
Yeah, it’s not the most likely thing to happen but, who knows? Lol
They’ll have to hope he can find his bat at the MLB level because he’s a really bad defensive 2B. Outside of really one month, he hasn’t really shown the bat at this level to make up for that.
@was385: Yep, and the one good month was his first 54 ML ab’s. Never adjusted once pitchers (quickly) figured him out. Totally agree on his defense. No first step so he can’t have any range. Very awkward and clumsy footwork in the middle infield. Not sure if he’ll ever have enough power to transfer to a corner outfield spot either. 8 homers in over 450 mil ab’s in 2023 isn’t evidence that he has power. Just a slap hitter that sacrifices power for contact and a low strikeout rate so far.
was385 – Check the data. Grissom is only league average as a 2B. He’s very bad everywhere else. That works for Boston. After all, they play Devers!!
The key to Grissom is batting average and OBP. If those are .280 and .350 Boston is a winner on the deal. If he’s a .250 hitter with an OBP of .300 then they are the loser in the deal.
He’s very much not league average at 2B and I’ve seen absolutely no advanced metrics that suggest that is the case. Boston needs to hope that a) he can improve enough to just be slightly subpar at 2B and b) the bat shows some of the ability he has shown at the minor league level.
I think there’s a chance both could happen, but I’m not sure I’d bet money that he’ll hit enough to offset his defense and make him particularly valuable. I hope he proves me wrong. He seems like a really good dude.
As a Braves fan, I hope you’re right. Defense (even at 2B) was a concern, and he flashed signs of a lively bat in his initial callup. The problem was that the league adjusted, and he didn’t. He rakes in the minors for whatever reason, but aside from a limited sample size in the majors, he struggled. I hope the BoSox gives him time to work out his game. This could be a trade that the Braves look back on for a lesson, although it seems unlikely it becomes the JD Drew/Adam Wainright trade to STL that haunted ATL. Although, I don’t have a crystal ball 🙂
I think Atlanta won. 10m for a elite starter is a bargain even if only 70 to 120 innings. Just hope he is healthy for playoffs. Limit his innings pitch count all regular season.
Devers is next up in the salary dump as Henry plans to sell the team.
If I were Stearns, I would call Breslow and offer Baty, Mauricio, McNeil, Peterson, Vasil and a prospect for Devers and Pivetta or Jansen and all the salary. Gives the Mets protection if they let Alonso walk
Sox would be smart to do that, Devers needs to DH, as Yoshida does also. Salary dump them both and rebuild around Casas,Mayer, Teel, Roman Anthony, Yorke and Bleis.
Bill B, great to read your suggestion. I have been hoping beyond hope that Cohen feels that Devers is the 3B of the future for the Mets and is willing to deal for him. Of course, that’s too much to read any reality into, but to see you write it out creates the joy of what could be, and, if Breslow could pull that off, he would become PoBO Number One in the hearts and minds of my people.
$10M of that salary is deferred until 2039 via Grant McAuley… so the Braves are only paying $500k for Sale this year? Lololol if that’s how it works out!
Is that true? Wow!
Fake information
Good luck ATL fans. Dude is as fragile as glass.
Fragile as glass? Hey now! I mean Glass, now.
Sale is fragile as glass and Grissom has hands of stone. Seems like a fair trade.
W for the Red sox honestly. Braves getting sale for 1 year 10.5 million. Whats he getting open market like 1 year 16 million? To get Grissom in return for that is good.
Montas got that, so probably 22+ million on a 2 year deal with a player option (the signature Giants’ deal)
*I mean 22+ AAV ofc, not 2/22
I don’t think Sale is getting a $22MM AAV for multiple seasons. Way too many injuries for that. I think maybe a team would pay the QO price for a year w/ no compensation attached.
Not sure how I feel about this as a braves fan. I’d have liked to get someone with more team control. Next year braves are gonna have big rotation issues, looking to lose sale, fried and Morton. Yikes
20m club option. If healthy enough that could be a bargain. And it’s the Braves so team friendly extension always in play.
$5M of that $20M is deferred until 2040.
Losing those pitchers frees up cash to get more (or resign) pitchers. The Braves will be fine.
How many of the guys the Braves have traded away turned into everyday mlb players? Great prospects/AAA players but I can’t think of any AA has traded that have done that.
Absolutely right Lonnie. One of AA and the Braves FO best attributes is their ability to correctly evaluate their own talent. Imo William Contreras is the only player AA’s dealt that qualifies as a solid everyday ML starter—-so far anyway. Jury’s still out on Langeliers and a couple of the lower level prospect arms.
And I don’t think Contreras’ defense would have improved much under the Braves. Developing catchers isn’t something they’re known for.
We are sure good at trading for them though! Good thing we have a glutton of under the radar infielders and pitchers. Braves are great at developing AAAA players and trading them for MLB stars.
Nobody saw this move coming. Breslow must be punting on 2024 already.
You’re just not paying attention to real-world baseball transactions and roster development.
This is a pretty good move.
I’m not saying it’s a bad move. Punting on 2024 can be a valid strategy.
Here’s what I’ve paid attention to:
*The Red Sox didn’t have a great rotation last year and they just traded their highest upside rotation arm.
*The Red Sox’s biggest move was to sign Lucas Giolito. They swung and missed on every other high profile free agent so far.
The Red Sox have a ton of question marks all over the place. Everything could come up 7s for them, but it’s likely they’re not going to be competitive in 2024 at this point.
I think giolito and Chris Sale probably are a wash. Plus the money used now won’t have to be spent on Merrifield because we got a second baseman in the deal.
You can’t count on sale for anything this season and the Braves know that, thus the $$. Having giolito as our four or five is a big help. No punting here we’re not done.
No way. Giolitos upside is equal to Chris sale for 1/2 season. Hopefully Braves make him wait until the all star break
I think this is a win for Boston. Sale had one year left on that deal (unless it vests for one more which is unlikely) and they shed some salary and get back a good young prospect who can be a legitimate contributor for a long time. Win now move for Atlanta, but could make sense for both sides.
Interesting.
it’s a win for Atlanta, it’s only costing the Braves 9.5 million…
10.5 million, duh
and they don’t have to pay it until 2039 or something like that.
Great move, I hope Chris helps Braves wins 2024 World Series.t
This is a no brainer for Atlanta. Sale’s contract calls for 27.5 million this year. However 10 million is deferred making it 17.5 million. The Braves get 17 million in the deal cash. Making Sale getting only 500k this year from the Braves. That’s less than the 740k league minimum. That being said, this is not necessarily all about this year. Sales contract has a option for 2025. If he’s healthy and top 10 in CY Young he gets 20 million with 5 million deffered. Making him only cost 15.5 million dollars over two years to Atlanta. (7.75 a year) Braves win either way. If he’s top 10 Cy young voting he’s had a great year. If not, his option doesn’t get picked up giving even more money next year to spend on rebuilding the rotation with Max, Burnes, Buehler and others available as free agents.
Braves win this deal without question!
I really don’t know how to feel about this lol. Maybe Sale will shock me and give the braves 20+ starts. Grissom wasn’t going to play with the braves anyway but I’m surprised they gave him up for sale. At least this means Reynaldo Lopez will remain in the bullpen, I’m happy about that.
Wonderful for both sides!
I hope so, I appreciate the positivity. Anthopoulos seems obsessed with high strike out pitchers.
K/BB rates too
Yeah, the metrics are nice, health is my main worry. I also take back what I said at the start of the off-season, I could really see Kershaw in Texas this season after the Yamamoto deal!
I would love Kershaw. He is my favorite non-Texas player since I started following in 2010. The problem is that Texas already has deGrom, Scherzer, and Mahle coming back the second half and they need to use their remaining budget on relievers or first half starters.
Sale for only around $10M is a steal in this market. Hopefully he stays healthy.
Sale will be released in a day or two. This is the new Braves off season
Lol good one, but he’s not quite matt carpenter yet.
Now flip Grissom for an ace from Miami?
If he were worth an ace Atlanta would have traded him for one.
Technically they got Boston’s ace. Soooo
Technically bostons rotation was garbage so he’ll suit up as our #5 starter
He’s not worth an ace from Miami! His defense is horrible.
A LHP out and 2 available as FA. hmmmmm
I am.surprused the Orioles didn’t jump on this, but the Braves are a good team to go to
Plus what good is Sale to the Red Sox when they are rebuilding of sorts
Ok so just because u have had two years of injuries means nothing … Tired of these fans smashing on people because crap happens … Yeah he wasn’t ready yet I feel I think he could have taken last year off to fully recover but u could see he started too towards the end of the season he was getting there so too go and trade Sale I’m sorry stupid move plain and simple
Here wo go. Because it involves the Red Sox., The amount of responses will exceed 1K.. 800 of them Red Sox fans justify the trade. Isn’t that normally goes when it’s Red Sox,Yankees and Mets? SMH
Thing is nobody’s on board with the Red Sox now. 80% of Red Sox fans trash every Red Sox move or non-move.
They cry when Breslow has done nothing yet they cry when they overpay for a number four starter.
They have no idea the market is through the roof. Then they don’t realize the move like this today probably takes a few weeks of phone calls to see which infielders are available and which team needs a number three starter.
This took a lot of work to pull off yet Breslow gets very little credit from Red Sox nation.
Gary – Some of the fans behave as you suggest and others review each individual action just like a play in a game.
Giolito – Too much like Bloom. He hasn’t been good in 3 years so there is a lot of hoping in the deal and he’s not a SP1 or SP2 like they need.
Sale – Grissom is something they needed. A long term controlled 2B who is far better than Yorke. Now they can deal Yorke to get a SP1 or SP2 along with Mayer who to me is very similar to Moncada when he was ranked so high but wasn’t producing as well as he should have in the minors. Trade him before others figure it out and go big like DD did getting Sale. Go get Burnes.
Now here is the downside of the Sale deal. Retained Payroll went from $7.5MM to $24.5MM. That means to stay under the current CAP Boston only has $312.5MM available for spending when other teams without Retained Payroll can spend up to $237MM before being taxed. Since the team practically prints money with all it’s profits this should NOT be an issue but if Henry and the other owners start complaining about over spending, this move will impact it in 2024. It’s not as bad as $16MM a year for 3 years like Bloom did but it’s still a very bad idea.
There are so many farm players that will never amount to anything that throwing in farm players is always a better choice than a buy down. Maybe Breslow realizes the money is insignificant but many of the fans don’t. They still think the CAP is important but to any Big Market Team like Boston, it’s a minor speed bump. Hopefully, that’s why Breslow did the buy down. He landed a very key player for the future and that’s a good thing.
Now if he’ll do his job and fire Cora and move Devers to DH and maybe use Rafaela at 3B or go get a true 3B then this team is beginning to show some light after the doom and gloom of Bloom.
Wow, didn’t expect this. The Dombrowski days are over, that’s for sure.
Now you can step back from the ledge. The offseason is still young. Giolito anchors the staff with innings and RS have a controllable young 2B who had a pretty good 2023 in AAA.
I don’t think I was ever on the ledge. Sure, I admitted it was okay to panic and I have compared Breslow to Chaim but I knew something would get done eventually.
Still, this is our ace gone, so we have to replace him somehow. Like I said, Breslow is different from Chaim in that he has a plan. It’s getting late though.
You got to be able to count on your ace. You can’t count on chris sale if hes hurt half the time, or smashing tvs
Agreed, and that’s why we haven’t been winning…
My spider sense says BOS may be making a space to sign Jordan Montgomery to a 5-7 year deal (ending year(s) would be team player option with a buyout)
AL East division is VERY competitive, competition for a WC is also.
Another possibility is they are talking to CHISOX about Cease and trying to negotiate an acceptable return. Lower cost of prospects would get them 1 year of Bieber from CLE. They could agree to extend him early in 2024 once they know there are no long term physical issues. (Maybe 3+ years) Velocity has dropped but he is a pitcher more than a thrower who relies mainly on velocity to get hitters out.
What do the tea leaves say to you Master Yoda?
On the MLB Trade Rumor wavelength frequency.
Hot Stove Temperature Rising Eh?
On another front,could be good news for BAL as ATL is probably out of Cease market but LAD and others still interested probably
I’m surprised from ATls perspective they would make this trade. I think I’d rather have Grissom and his skills (and lower salary)
II guess they believe Sale can win them some big games in the playoffs in the short term. Braves SOO close to WS Championship
I forgot he was still in the league.
He’s only in the league about 30% of the time so I’m not surprised XD.
As a Mets fan I am crawling deeper and deeper back into the Cave. Sale is gonna win 18 while posting an under 3 ERA.
I’m a braves fan, i don’t expect that at all. I Expect 55 innings of a 3.98 era lol.
I actually thought to myself, “this is gonna be hilarious watching Sale hit”…!
Probably a good move, but going to miss Sale. Dudes a gamer. When he plays. :\
red sox fans must like that breslow seems more decisive and gutsy than bloom (low bar)
Yeah, but some of them here have trashed Breslow and even compared him to Bloom, not all of them, though.
I’d say yes, but a lot of action is not necessarily always a good thing.
dasit – Ask again in a week. This was a high volume day for Breslow after many low volume days. What should matter most is he improving the team.
The Giolito deal is a high risk move like Bloom failed at so many times. The Sale trade brings back a key piece for the future, reduces available money under the cap and frees Sale from the shackles of Cora the Terrible.
The Sales should be celebrating from now until New Years with this deal. Boston fans probably will be hard on Sale when he performs well again without Cora. Hopefully at that point they will start to realize what a huge downside Cora brings to the job. He ruined both Price and Sale and cheated twice and still has a job. I have no idea what leverage he has on people but it must be huge.
A rare trade that seams to benefit both teams. Logical gamble for a Braves team smack dab in the middle of their prime.
I didn’t like the trade when first announced but when you look at Sale he posts a 3.5-4.0 ERA knows how to win and pitch. At the price Atlanta is paying him probably worth it.
Just like with Charlie Morton; Sales value may be more than we realize if he helps and teaches some of our prospects what he knows. Before injuries this was guy was one of the best starters in the game. So he knows how to get outs and he knows what pitching is about.
this is a fleece for the red sox: and here’s why:
1. Sale isn’t that good. a prime example of a has been
2. he had 1 year left of his contract
3 the braves literally payed money for that dude lmao
4 hes gonna be hurt half the time
5. got a potential infield regular that’s controllable and we could flip him (or story) when marcelo’s ready
6 we traded him out of thee league too, just in case he rebounds and gets back to form.
Won’t flip them for anything good. Boston was only bidding against themselves with those 2.
Grissom has at least a decent chunk of value. A combo of rafaela, grissom, and Abreu or Yorke could get you alot.
dingers69 – Sale without Cora means success. It also means an extension of an elite pitcher if he does return to form without Cora. That’s like LAD getting Mookie. They were the two best players on the 2018 team. This could be HUGE for Atlanta.
Boston got a better 2B than Yorke or Story (since Story can’t hit any more). He’s a long term solution and with Casas at 1B and Grissom at 2B the future right side of the infield is set.
Now Breslow needs to fix the left side of the infield. He needs to trade Story’s bad salary and move Devers to DH and replace both positions with young long term controlled solutions.
The outfield is young and set for years with Anthony, Duran, Rafaela and Abreu. If O’Neill reverts back to his old form, great but don’t count on it any more than counting on Giolito reverting back to his old form. Consider it icing on the cake not the cake.
FYI…. The Braves receive $17MM of Sale’s $25.6MM tab from Breslow. An incredibly stupid move since it’s his last year. That means Sale costs Atlanta $8.6MM in 2024. That’s a steal. We get a 2B of the future so both sides should be happy. If Sale returns to form without Cora the Braves win BIG TIME!!!
Frankly, it would have been easier to fire Cora and let Breslow’s new pitching coaches have the shot at returning him to form. That way, if they succeeded, Boston could extend him and if they didn’t then his career is probably over. Not having Cora and Grissom is a superior choice to not having Sale.
This sounds like the deal that Bloom didn’t make that put him in the crosshairs with ownership. It was reported Bloom had an offer from Texas to take Sale of his hands and his full contract for 3 2nd tier prospects.
Moving Sale and 17 million was a smart move. Grissom hasn’t shown he can play up the middle. Maybe they move him to OF for the long haul or they have a plan in place to move some of their young OF bats.
There is still time but if they think this is it. They are done for the off season they are COMPLETELY out of touch with the fans. The team is only slightly better than last year, which isn’t saying much for a team that was a bottom feeder going away.
Win-win trade with minimal risk for both and potential reward for both.
I like it
So the Sox desparetly need starting pitching, but let’s trade one of our only good ones. Sale isnt a number 1 anymore, but last year showed he isn’t washed. Full throttle to last place. Bloom 2.0 full speed ahead!
Please stop! You know you probably wanted sale gone last year and the year before and the year before don’t start to sound like you knew something. I was a big sale fan but even I admit that he’s an unknown every year. This was not a horrible trade, even if he’s better than Grissom this year. You try to win every trade, but it doesn’t always work that way and let’s be honest Grissom’s only 22 and has a chance for upside.
When do we stop trying to field a team of upside and start bringing in actual talent? The Sox are already done for the 2024 season. They are a worse team now than they were last year and they weren’t very good last year.
You’re right the hot stove is over, let the games begin!
soxintwo – Since Cora ruined both Price and Sale wouldn’t it have been a far superior decision to fire Cora and let Breslow’s new coaching staff see if they can return him to greatness?
For me this is similar to Mookie. It’s not that LAD got one year of Mookie in the deal, they got the inside track on signing him to a long term deal so the crap output of Wong, Verdugo and Downs didn’t even come close to Mookie’s 2020 season but the fact that LAD signed him for a decade is the single biggest plus in the deal and so Bloom got completely screwed by Friedman.
Now we have Sale going for a 2B of the future which is a real upside for Boston BUT if he could have been great again without Cora then he would be worth extending without Cora. Those extension years are now in the hands of the Braves so this COULD turn out as another disaster for Boston if Sale responds to not having Cora and having a new set of talented pitching coaches. That’s the HUGE risk in this deal. I loved Sale in Chicago and thought the move by DD was huge. Cora changed all that by mismanaging him after Farrell had success with him. Price had a great career until Cora managed him and then practically fell off a cliff. Those aren’t coincidences, they are actions driven by a very bad manager.
So Breslow gained a nice 2B but the cost is uncertain right now.. Time will tell whether this was a good or bad deal. On paper, it looks pretty fair.
This might pave the way for a big deal bringing a very good, reliable lefty starter (Luzardo?) with at least a couple years’ control.
It was time to put, Sale……”Up for Sale”….See what I did there?
I don’t get it
LMAO
Alex gonna Alex. Where are all the Jays fans wishing he was still running the team now?
What’s wrong with this trade?
You’re kidding right? An often injured past his prime pitcher for a really good bat that’s controllable until 2030. I find it hard to believe the Braves couldn’t have gotten a better return even if it meant adding another player.
I will bet on AA vs whoever the gm of Boston is.
throw some respect on craig breslow buddy
It’s a bit of an overpay but I think you’re underestimating Sale’s upside. Steamer projects him with 2.7 WAR in 142 innings next year. I’ll definitely take the under on innings but 2+ WAR in 90-100 innings is a good outcome. If Grissom wasn’t completely blocked I wouldn’t like this trade for the Braves as much
The Braves traded a blocked player for a good pitcher that is basically free in 2024. It’s a win/win.
it’s a fleece for the sox, 1 year of sale for grissom till 2030
2 years of Sale plus an option.
they made that deal on their own
They had an option on Sale as part of his original contract.
that i wasn’t counting because he hasn’t been worth 20 mil since 2019-18
So you’re saying they only controlled him for one year because you don’t count his option year. Right. Got it.
Unbelievable. Typical Braves.
Taking advantage of weak ran teams is what Braves do all day every day every year.
The Red Sox are one of the best organizations since 2000 and far better than the Braves. This trade is a loss for the Braves. Just a lazy off season for a team who were once again embarrassed in the DS by their rival.
When they had Theo Ben and Dave they were. Now they are very meh closer to weak then best.
Braves just dumped their trash and added a playoff starter if he is healthy then. Easy win for ATL.
YourDreamGM – Trash? A 22 year old who hits for a high average and has good plate control so his OBP is high too. He’s not a power hitter but at ages 21 and 22 he played at the MLB level and was above league average. Most people would project that to improve and NOBODY in their right mind says that’s a TRASH performance.
Sorry for stepping in on your silly feud but at least state opinions that reflect reality. The organizational pissing contest is silly. As of today, Atlanta has the better organization but it’s not always been that way. As few as 5 years ago Boston had the advantage.
Don’t know what feud you are talking about. Never said he had a trash performance. Just to the braves he is trash. They can get rid of him and he won’t be really missed. His batting average is a small sample size inflated luck.
His contact ability is excellent. If Boston can improve his power or defense he will be a better than average player.
You’re embarrassing yourself again TradeAcuna. Claiming the Sox are a “far better (organization) than the Braves” is high up in the top 5 most clueless takes you’ve ever posted on this site. Your screen name’s still the worst though…………
Braves are just going in circles with their ceaseless transactions. Are they being generally managed by a 12 yr old boy who hacked in to their account?
lol, how are people saying the Braves won this? Sale will not make it through a full regular season + October. Even when he was in his prime and “healthy”, he couldn’t make it to October.
Also, his postseason numbers are horrendous. I don’t know how he always got a pass while Schzezer and Kershaw always got a narrative placed on them,
The Braves got a number 3 starter at worst for a guy who was blocked and are paying the number 3 starter 500K for this year
You’re right if everything was equal, but Sale likely won’t make it a full season healthy. Chase Utley was playing the last time Sale made 25+ starts and had an ERA under 4+
Just like Todd Frazier was playing the last Jacob deGrom last made 25+ starts.
10m he doesn’t have to pitch a whole season.
As World Series contenders, the Braves made this trade expecting him to make it through October healthy.
Can’t expect any pitcher to make it through October healthy. A world series contender better have depth and a back up plan.
In a vacuum I like this trade a lot better for the Sox.
But they are basically paying $35 million next year for one rotation spot if Giolito is taking over for Sale.
But you also get a FREE second baseman according to the math you’re using.
“tumultuous”???
Atlanta invests in ballplayers. Giants invest in right wing nut jobs and put $$$ in their pocket. Nice.
“Atlanta club that has been swimming in extra revenues since the opening of Truist Park and its neighboring ballpark village project known as The Battery. The Braves have used this money to lock up several members of its roster on contract extensions.”
Considering franke mantoes just got 16 mil after pitching 1 inning last year, this seems like a great deal.
This doesn’t exactly scream “MAJOR TRADE” to me. Maybe if we were talking 2018 Sale.
The Sox made the biggest mistake of their lives extending Sale and trade Betts. This was long overdue, now they can use that 10mil freed up for an actual useful pitcher like Montgomery, Snell or Imanaga.
RS didn’t used to need to clear $10m to sign someone.
No, but it doesn’t hurt, and it doesn’t hurt to get Sale out of the picture. He can stop apologizing to the people of Boston now. “I sucked” can be his opening salvo to the good people of Atlanta.
That $10M is deferred 15 years, so the Red Sox didn’t really save any money.
Blue Jays let A.A leave for the genius Ross Atkins. Never believed Ohtani was going to sign with Blue Jays with Atkins in charge. If it was A.A it might have happened.
Then why couldn’t AA convince Ohtani to sign in Atlanta?
Why would AA want to try and outbid LA. It would only result in a awful contract.
Another baffling move for the braves
10m for one of the best available starting pitchers is a easy yes. Baffling Boston accepted it.
“one of the best available starting pitchers”
That’s quite the low bar you’ve set.
What is AA cooking?
Another division title.
Good move for both teams. Stabilizes the back end of the rotation for ATL (with considerably more upside). Grissom is a probably an overpay, but he was blocked
Underpay easily.
How? Grissom is a quality 22 year old prospect and Sale is always hurt
Grissom is a failed prospect. Braves haven’t developed him to anything special. Might as well trade him now when another team values him highly.
What are you smoking? How is he a failed prospect when he only has around 250 plate appearances in the majors?
Nothing. Hasn’t shown anything to suggest he is a impact player. Certainly not enough to keep you from trading him for a pitcher like Sale. 250 is enough to make this trade. If you didn’t have a superior 2b, wasn’t a contender, and thought you had a solution to get more power out of him or improve his defense then you give him another season.
I don’t even dislike this trade for Atlanta. I’m just pushing back at your argument that he was a “failed prospect.” He’s hit very well at every stop in the minors, including this year. HIs major league hitting has been above average overall. His defense definitely hasn’t looked good, but it’s a very small sample size and his minor league scouting reports aren’t bad regarding his defense. He’s probably not a SS, but I think he’ll be fine at 2B with every day reps
He can definitely hit minor league pitching and has put up a good mlb batting average stat. A non failed prospect if Atlanta wants a poor defense 2b with little power but really lucky so far.
As a Braves fan, assuming Sale can stay healthy, it feels like a good move. If he ends up being league-average, it makes sense. Vaughn has the potential to be a good hitter, but the SS experiment didn’t go too well, and it seems like the platoon LF project wasn’t as promising. When you have Albies at 2nd base, it feels like chess from a move of strength. Seeing Vaughn play in the majors and minors, I think Kelenic is a better gamble for the same cost at $17M. Sure, there is more team control and youth with Grissom, but the trade seems balanced based on where both teams stand.
Sox should now try to move Story! If they are going for a youth movement it’s time to go all in! The Sox need pitching and defense and a slugging middle of the order RH bat!
They aren’t moving Story without eating a whole lot of his remaining contract. It may be more realistic to hope he bounces back with the bat a bit next season, and then try to move him next off-season.
Very easy to move him of they are willing to eat 60 percent or so of salary like Sale.
Skipping the first 265 comments to comment…. Just got home from a long night…
This is a 4D chess move in my opinion. He was “lightly” rumoured to be heading to the Phillies last year. Not sure what any ask would have been (grissom -even though he has no spot- is a big p/u for Boston) but would have LOVED to have had a shot at him…
And well, tbh, not looking forward to him k-ing Schwarber 12-13 times out of 16 next year…
Yeah, Schwarber is not happy about this move. Kind of like Randy Johnson and John Kruk during the all-star game.
You could argue that even after signing Snell (if they even do) they’re still in a similar spot.
Please no on Snell… he would make the team worse IMO.
Possibly a good trade for both sides. Grissom could develop into a decent 2b if he works on his defense. Sale could be a serviceable starter. Or both could be big bust. No big loss for either side Boston building for the the future hoping Grissom pans out and the Braves playing to win in 2024 hoping sale recaptures some of his former self
Sale gave up 49 earned runs last year……18 of those went to BAL in 3 of his 4 starts. Aside from that, he started to look like Sale again. Swapping him with Giolito is a downgrade. Now they still need pitching.
As a Yankees fan, loving this offseason for the Basement Sox.
Except…when sale is hurt giolito will be taking the ball instead of some stiff from the minors like the past 4 years
..so something is better than nothing
Are the red Sox ever going to try to improve. We are not Tampa. I’m tired of the bargain basement and prospects
Dude what did sale provide this team for 27.5 million a year?
This was a money move. Sale isn’t worth $27 mil and Grissom, whatever he gives you at the MLB level, was worth the league minimum he receives.
The thing is, we don’t need to spend 300 million on a pitcher or more just to win the bid. It doesn’t guarantee wins. Sometimes it’s good to spend but you have to be smart about it and not mindless.
Sucks to not compete join the club man I was there for every second of the McCann, Beltran, Ruiz, Tanaka, Ellsbury experiments. I hear that Mayer, Anthony, and Teel are legit!
I like the move for Boston. Grissom isn’t a good defender but he can hit and there is a bit of Power.
I could see him becoming a player like asdrubal cabrera who was below average in the field but would give you 260-270 avg with 15 (and occasionally 20) Homers.
He’s also slotted to play second base, which is easier than shortstop. I may be wrong on this but that’s what experts mentioned elsewhere.
I think Grissom’s ceiling is Daniel Murphy and his floor is Ronald Torreyes
This says first blockbuster trade… wasn’t the trade for O’Neill Breslow’s first blockbuster trade?
Yes
A for Atlanta. Sale for 10m is a sale price. Last contract year he should be motivated. Just keep him healthy for playoffs. Probably pick up option if healthy and nothing drastic happens with his talent. Gave up absolutely nothing. He is a back up for them and a easily replaced one as they have Fletcher and traded similar players. Braves dumped their trash again for difference making player.
F for Boston. I would have wanted more for Sale and would have just kept him if this is all I could get. Grissom has some hope still but you don’t over pay for potential hope. Probably doesn’t become anything special. I think Adam Frazier realistic ceiling. Might be non tender dfa when starts making real money.
And no prospect. Not even a lotto ticket. Sale is such a AA guy. I wouldn’t believe for a second he would not add anything else at all and would pass on this deal.
Nashville Jeff Bridges will have to check multiple sources cause he ain’t going to believe Atlanta just got Sale for a average 2b.
Bingo, Sale is a feared strikeout pitcher that will get more K’s than pitchers making 2 and 3 times $10 million, if he’s healthy. Grissom is a maybe or never will be.
So by rating this an A deal for Atlanta you’re basically saying that sale is really really good when you’re probably one of the people that complained about him for the last six or seven years. By saying that the Red Sox are an F with Grissom you’re saying there’s not a chance that the kids not going to start to mature at 22 years old. You’re making yourself look bad. I would’ve said it was a B for Atlanta and a C for the Red Sox and that’s legitimate. Some of you commenters just show your true hatred.
No hatred. I don’t like or hate any teams. Braves are one of my favorites only because we share a similar philosophy.
Sale is still a playoff starter. Stuff isn’t his issue. It’s health. They seen his medicals. They traded their trash for him and aren’t paying him much $. That is a A.
F for Boston because the odds of Grissom becoming good enough to justify this trade isn’t high enough. I love his eye approach. Don’t like his power. Maybe they unlock it. I would have given them a D or even a C if they could have gotten anything else. I can’t see a gm as good as AA walking away from this deal because he refuses to add a on the 40 man bubble or lotto ticket prospect.
If other teams valued Grissom so highly then he would have been traded for Cease Glasnow etc.
Six years of team control for a 22 y.o. 2B who has excelled at every level of the minor leagues warrants an F? lol. He was blocked by Orlando Arcia. AA is going for a division title. RS are trying to improve long-term. Not everything takes place in a vacuum.
If he excelled at every level he wouldn’t be blocked by Orlando Arcia.
he was blocked by Albies not Arcia. Yes he was bad at SS but you’re acting like Sale is still an ace or was actually healthy for any amount of time the past 4 years. He’s neither of those things
I didn’t act anything. And Sale only has to be a #4 for this trade to be considered successful.
You’re clearly acting like Sale had something more to offer that he actually does and that somehow a guy who can’t stay healthy should fetch a “better” return.
Not for nothing based on his recent track record a #4 starter is a stretch.
So if Sale helps the Braves win a WS title and Grissom becomes a key figure in the RS lineup for the next six years, would the RS have failed in this trade?
@acell I don’t know what I said Arcia.
He offers what I said he offers. No acting involved. If he can’t stay healthy why was Atlanta interested? Well for only costing Grissom he just needs to be healthy a chunk of time not the entire time.
the sox paid down a significant portion of the contract that’s why they were interested and they’re probably praying he can stay healthy. Sale’s history screams otherwise and for this to work that chunk of time has to as much as he’s been able to pitch in the past four season combined.
Braves already won as long as he isn’t currently hurt. Don’t need to win world series. Feel like Sox could have got more. Where else could the Braves find a pitcher that good for that cheap? Maybe I am wrong and they negotiated perfectly and Atlanta wouldn’t budge. Fine then. Keep Sale or pivot to another team. But if Grissom becomes a key figure then Sox get a A+++++ They seen something few others or no one else did and had to have them. I am just 1 person and seen him very few times. They have a small army who spend countless days weeks looking him over. They should out evaluate me. Yet they rarely do.
You’re right again Dream. I started laughing when I saw the trade headline. Have to admire AA’s patience and ability in finding a taker for Grissom that could send back a useful piece that fit so well in both the budget and .roster.
So if Sale misses most of the year with injury, you still giving them an A?
There’s no time machine. If there is please let me know as I would pay greatly to use it. I grade when trade is made. If medical says he is healthy and ready to go for the season and he gets hurt it’s just bad luck. Has he been unlucky? Not the healthiest mechanics? Sure. But thats why it only cost Grissom and Sox ate most the $. Grissom will probably start at 2b in Boston. Might even become good. It wasn’t happening in Atlanta.
I like this move for the Braves and was expecting Grissom to be traded for a sp. white Sox should have sent caese for Grissom since the Sox already move most of the other pitchers Braves traded. Grienke or Kershaw could have been had for veteran presence, leadership and advice to the pitchers on dealing with arm injuries. It’s a good sale.
Dude, your not getting Cease for Grissom.
Unless the Sox trade for caese. White Sox trade players like a modera stock. Hold on too long or buy in too late.
AA hitting the bottle.
I could be wrong so correct me if I am. Didn’t the Braves recently lock up Vaughn Girssom long term? Maybe last winter?
You are wrong
@Logjammer: No, Grissom wasn’t one of the players that AA has signed to an extension. Grissom’s still on a ML minimum salary when he’s on a team’s 26 man roster.
Just like in the cartoons he went down for the count and “SALE” went across his eyes like he was a cash register.
now you know just because he’s now in Atlanta Brave Chris Sale is going to come out and somehow finish in the top five of the NL Cy Young voting this year. right now my Phillies have a tall task ahead of them with the Braves and Dodgers just to get to a possible World Series
Somehow, I feel this will work for the Braves. Sure, Sale will not give you 30-35 starts, but when he is on, he is tough to beat. So I look for the Braves to give him all the rest he needs, and with their current SP’s, they have that luxury. In my opinion, at the end of the year, he has the following:
9-12 W’s
3.85 era
1.27 whip
150+ innings
He has the luxury of a very good offense around him, for maybe the first time since 2018. So even if he gives up an early HR or 2, he can still strike out many players, every game without walking too many. As a White Sox fan, I enjoyed his time with the Sox, until the end, when he turned into a clubhouse big-mouth and despised by his teammates. Here’s hoping the past few years has shown him a little humility and he uses his God given talent to shine.
Braves win this trade regardless, Grissom will have growing pains early on and may never be a star. The Braves get a feared strikeout pitcher, who even when not 100%, can still get 7-10 K’s every time out.
Stroman to Beantown – book it!
Hilarious
I wish it were hilarious. I actually fear this prognostication.
Trust me casuals, the Braves are sitting back opening the champagne right now. They just managed to land Chris Sale and got the Red Sox to take 17 million off all for a non-prospect (Grissom) that they were dying to get rid of anyway
Grissom will be on the option/waivsrs route fairly shortly here
Crazy how fast the Braves are already moving on from Acuna.
Here is some optimistic math that could lead to Montgomery in Boston…Sox are not going to sign a Merrifield or Rosario (save 8-10 million), and save 10 million on Sale, and were about to sign a Paxton/Lorenzen type for 12 million; in theory, they have 30 million this season to make a competitive offer to Montgomery that extends to the Boras trying to leg out a six-year deal. If Boras can get Montgomery 5-6 years at $150 in Boston, where his wife is in residency, this could happen if Montgomery wants to be in Boston with his wife on a team that has a decent future over the life of a six-year deal. A rotation with Montgomery, Bello, Piveta, Giolito, and Houk is competitive with a decent health record. Please don’t sleep on Piveta; his second-half numbers and those who watched him pitch can tell you he was special. Bello is legit, too…a ton of upside!
The other possibility is Grissom is then part of a bigger deal for pitching.
If anyone can do a deep dive on how his fielding translates to a 2b base, it would be appreciated and would lift the level of discussion. The Sox were the worst defensive team in baseball; they needed someone in the pivot, especially in Fenway, where things got out of control quickly.
I agree about Pivetta, and I think they found a key to unlocking his performance when he stalls—throw him into the pen. The stuff plays open, velo ticks up, he throws strikes all over again, and re-earns his starting slot in late season.
I doubt any other team values Grissom even close to what the sox do.
He hit .330 in AAA last year…he has value if he can be an above-average defender at 2nd.. Would you prefer Grissom at the major league min. and add more starting pitching or pay 8-10 million for Merrifield/Rosario and less pitching…or pay a steep price in prospects for one year of Kim and have a little less pitching?
I would have kept Sale and signed anyone. Whoever is cheap. Or a waiver claim.
Anything other than this trade.
Imanga’s posting window is set to close soon so a decision is imminent. Could trading Sale be an attempt to free up cash for a run Shota? I guess we’ll find out. If not, i could see Paxton coming back for another year.
The real question is will AA keep Sale of flip him like almost every other player he’s acquired in trades this winter
Paxton is the most injury-prone pitcher in the last decade
No
All this just to lose in the first round of the playoffs to the Phillies.
If the Reds are able to keep pace with the Phillies with this roster that long I think its the Phillies that got to answer.
The thing about Sale is that a lot of his time on the injured list was for freak accidents (hit by a comebacker, falling off a bicycle) that had nothing to do with being easily injured. I’ll miss him and would have like to see him get another shot in a Red Sox uniform. Plus, he’s good at busting up tv’s in the dugout.
Unparalleled.
While, with Sale entering his walk year, it’s not a “bad” deal, it makes the Sox starting rotation even worse than it was Thursday. They’ve accomplished nothing. Unless, with Sale’s contract chopped off, they plan on pursuing a front-line….nah…never mind.
The Red Sox just fleeced the Braves. Grissom has the skills to be a top 20 hitter in the game and hes under team control for the next 5 years. Sale has nothing left in the tank and gets hurt too much. I would have done Alonso straight up for Grissom, thats how much I like this kid. Sleepy Stearns continues to do nothing
He doesn’t have the skills currently. Sox going to out develop Atlanta? Not easy to do.
Sucks that they aren’t getting 2018 Chris Sale otherwise they may have a chance against the buy-whoever-they-want Dodgers. Still, the Sale and Kelenic acquisitions are decent low-risk, high-reward moves by AA that I hope pay off and we all pray make the Braves a real threat to keep LA from dominating baseball (specifically the NL) for the next decade.
Whaaaa???
Crazy how fast Boston has already moved on from Pedroia.
Good deal both ways.
I’m confused why the Braves want an injury-prone pitcher made of glass
Last contract year. He will be motivated. Needs restraint along with getting a hook after five and maybe he surprises. Still has the stuff.
I still don’t think any team smart enough would sign him even if he was a comeback year. Injury history and would command too much money to risk signing
Because all it took was Grissom to get him. And Sox are paying majority of him.
Both clubs take a chance. Potential immediate return for Atlanta, Long term potential for Sox. What’s not to like for both clubs?
What happens to Pablo Reyes and Emmanuel
Fascinating. It was clear the Braves were interested in packaging at least one young player for a starter capable of winning in the postseason, but I was expecting a deal centered on Grissom and Kelenic for Burnes—not a pitcher as unreliable as Sale.
Therefore makes me wonder if the new modus is rich teams (w/ the likes of Glasnow and Sale) adding iffy TORs with the aim of having them join the rotation well into the season. After all, if you waste one such on winning a few games in April and July and taking the division by 18 games instead of 16, what was the point, really?
When Sale was a White Sox player his motion was so violent I was sure he was going to end up a used car salesman in a few years. He surprised me lasting as long as he did . Red Sox held him to five a start and he looked brilliant in September except for one bad start. Given that he’s a head case that was probably just due having a few bad luck pitches then trying to throw 93 down the center thinking he’s still able to blow away the batter.
If they control his innings he probably lasts the year. Has a good shot at another ring too
So they spent close to $36M for Giolito and Grissom. Why is this remotely worth praising? Seems like a waste of money, at least Breslow is like Dombrowski in that regard
The hope is giolito pitches well enough to opt out of year to and the sox qa him..its a gamble
This guy Stearns stinks. Sale will have 20+ starts and beat the Mets 4 times. Book it.
We cuttin some jerseys tonight boys!
I liked Grissom alot as a Brave but even with some extended and intensive tutelage under Ron Washington, his defense was still sketchy.
I wish him well and will miss him as a Brave but I still see this as a good move by AA.
He was fine for 2b but not ss..he was blocked due to poor def at ss..and albies at 2b
I’ll take this trade every day! While Sale was a stud (albiet for a short time in Boston) his time has past. Grissom is a young talent we can control for many seasons and is a way better answer at 2nd then what we currently have. Hopefully more starting pitching is on the way. I’d like to see 2 more please.
Seems like a good deal for the Red Sox. Grissom is better at 2B, he’s young, he’s controllable, and has good bat-to-ball skills. They basically purchased him by covering almost all of Sale’s 2024 salary ($10MM is deferred), so the Braves will only have to pay $500K in 2024 with $17MM included in the deal.
How good a major leaguer is Grissom? Hard to say, but at least now he’ll get the chance to show his skills on the MLB level. The Braves moved a part in Grissom that was blocked, and got back a pitcher who can still be good, health willing. That last part is the key. Makes sense for both sides, but I think the Red Sox will come out ahead longer term, but the Braves may benefit the most in 2024. A deal for two teams in different stages of the win cycle.
I agree with everything you say, except that Sale gets a $1M assignment bonus for being traded, so he’s really costing the Braves $1.5M. Otherwise, you’re spot on.
Sale still flashes moments of brilliance. A team, however, can’t count on him for 30 starts. The Braves goal will be to get as much aas they can from him in the regular season, but mostly get him aligned and pointed toward the postseason. He can still be a difference maker when healthy.
Good for Boston to get some money off the books. Grissom is an interesting prospect but the trouble is that they are now blocking Rafaela. They need to make a trade to free up position player spots. Maybe they are putting together a package for Burnes?
Rafaellas best position is cf
Nah, his best position is turning to sit back down in the dugout after striking out
I’m going to call it a win-win.
On the Atlanta side, Sale is still pretty good, albeit unreliable, and the price is right. Even if Grissom maxes out, they still have everything covered.
On the RS side, Grissom raked in AAA at a reasonably young age, and had pretty good stats in 2022. If he becomes even an average fielder at 2nd, he should be a 15 WAR/6 years type of player. That’s a lot of value for one year of Sale.
This sets us back a little in 2023 but improves us for the following five years. And now Yorke becomes trade bait. Yorke + an OF prospect for 2 years of Cease?
**in 2024**
Brilliant move by Breslow
Rick, Smartest move of all time. Hands down…In any sport!
This guy is made of Glasnow
Braves win. Grissom posted a negative war last season, so they got a useful starter at an affordable price and all it took was a replacement level player that they had no need for anyway. No brainer!
Red sox win
Win what fifth place?
Didn’t realize Mo Vaughn and Marquis Grissom had a child. Gotta be an odd skill set. Fat corner who can run
Or a string bean who can mash.
I didn’t expect anything from Sale this year, so this is a pure add for the Sox. The surprise is that Atlanta is hoping to get anything from him.
I also wonder (hope) whether the Sox have cleared a little payroll space to go after a replacement for Sale.
I don’t understand how people make a definitive statement about each player.
The young player with more experience can refine his skills. The older player may have another Gear so to speak and compete well into late 30’s (even 40’s) Situational Lefties. Neither player is a guarantee that their skills will improve or decline and if so for how long. This is what teams have to do make educated guesses about the players given up and the players they are receiving Seems silly to me to make a judgement in just one day. The Giancarlo Stanton trade was deemed a NO Brainer (although very few teams except the NYY could afford to pay his contract.) Some players bodies age faster than other based on a lot of reasons including how they take care of their health , mental discipline and focus and much more. There are other examples but too many people want to be Right and say the other team got robbed or something similar.
Sir you are on a website dedicated to speculating on major league trade rumors. You are not in a Wendy’s drive thru
The braves are one of the few teams that could make a trade like this and be ok. Grissom allows Boston to look toward the future while Sales future was uncertain. If Sale is healthy, while a big IF, Atlanta has an even better rotation with an incredible offense.
I don’t hate this trade for the Braves, but man are they incredibly thin in position player depth. AA better shift his focus to bolstering the bench
Braves panicked and dealt a stud prospect for a chronically injured pitcher after seeing the Dodgers moves.
Agreed only difference is Sale is a HOF caliber pitcher whereas Glasnow isn’t even as good as peak Syndergaard
Spin in however you want but understand since 2018, Sale has been throttled by shoulder issues, stress reactions in his shoulder and ribs, a broken finger, as well as elbow issues resulting in Tommy John surgery. In return, they gave a 22 year old kid with many years of control, a cumulative minor league average of .320 and ops nearly .900.
@leftcoaster
“Panicked”, that’s hilarious.
@leftcoaster
Line-up cards don’t win ballgames, but plenty believe they do.
Apparently you have never seen Grissom play defense; he was horrible in 2022 at second and 2023 when he got some innings at short. He is not even an average defender.
His bat is pretty much a contact bat with very power. He is going top out at around 15 home runs. His bat would never play in the outfield or full time DH. Boston going have to figure out how to make him better defensive. If Ron Washington couldn’t make him average defender in 2 seasons it sure it can be done
Failed prospect for playoff starter. Braves couldn’t care less what LA does.
Braves trade a “bench piece” getting paid $720k for a 4-5 guy in the rotation for $500k. grissom was never going to play. only reason we were keeping him was for Wash, and now he’s gone. It’s basically a contract year for Sale with that club option next year. even if it doesn’t pan out, there was no real risk in this trade. the $10 million is deferred to 2039. Braves still have money to spend. Nice move AA. and to top it off we kept our top pitching prospects.
“Atlanta made a strong big for Aaron Nola…?” No wonder he didn’t sign…
I’l don’t understand how your comment relates to the article. Are you saying the Braves are cheap or something? If so you should take a look at their payroll.
@Hired Gun 23
I am so glad the Braves DID NOT sign Aaron Nola.
I like this deal for Atlanta. No pressure on him to carry the team or frontline the rotation, and the braves can rest him periodically throughout the season to keep him fresh.
Grissom could become good but the Braves felt that his defensive in the infield was too
much of a liability to let him play every day. I remember last year watching him play shortstop for a brief time in Atlanta and the pray was that they didn’t hit the ball to him.
His bat will limited power more of a single contact batter is more of an infield type bat.
Yes he could get better but he was not in the plans for Atlanta going forward.
If Sale is healthy and throws the ball good he added much needed depth to Atlanta. Also with his possible 2025 option he is some depth if he pitches well if Fried leaves and Morton retires. Braves luck with pitches won’t be surprised to see Sale have a strong season
I will always root for Sale thanks to his being a key part of the 2018 championship.
I hope he can regain his health and be a productive member of the Braves.
Thanks for the memories!
Cannot say I like this trade but this should mean the egomaniac Stroman goes elsewhere. Seems like the Braves have pushed all their chips in and are going for it in 2024.
Braves will be going for it the rest of the decade and have more and much better chips.
Apparently Chris’s ship has sailed out of Boston.
Does anyone remember when the Red Sox were relevant?
John Henry should sell the team and concentrate on screwing up Euro soccer.
Red Sox rotation is now Bello, Giolito, and ???
Pivetta, crawford, houck
Exactly. Question marks.
SMH the author thinks Sale can possibly step in if CFM retires. Morton’s IP and relative durability dwarf Sale’s in recent seasons. Sale is fragile and doesn’t consistently post. ATL can have him.
It is a possibility though if sale does show he’s capable of staying healthy and can finally get past his injury woes. It’s very sensible thinking to assume that he possibly can be Morton’s replacement, especially if he pitches well enough to have that option vest. It is a big if though, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
Not sure if someone has already mentioned this but AA has focused on LHP so far – Sale, Bummer, Kerr, and Perdomo. Any thoughts on this?
I seen an article that AA’s thinking came based off of the braves postseason where we didn’t have many lefties Snitker could turn to outside of the few that we had and stockpiling the lefties is a way to have more bullpen flexibility come playoffs time because one or more is bound to stick and be decent enough to pitch meaningful innings in the playoffs.
No brainer moves. They just all happened to be lefties.
I also wonder if Sale will be passed through waivers and then DFA’d 🙂
No chance
As a braves fan i think this is a win for both clubs. We didn’t necessarily need another ace pitcher like cease, or burnes, even though it would have been great, but with fried and strider we have that ace. We did need another starter though regardless and outside of Sale’s injury history he brings a lot of potential to the braves and if he’s on and he’s healthy we get at the worst a good 3rd or 4th starter at the best we have another ace to go along with fried and strider. And we didn’t have to get rid of Aj smith Shawver or Hursten Waldrep. I love the deal for the braves side of things, including only paying him 10.5 mil, this could wind up being one of the best moves of the entire mlb offseason on a money basis alone. The red sox get their guy for second base and he only just now turns 23 on january 5th, so he’s still plenty young enough to get a handle on that defense he has struggled with, especially playing 2nd where he was a lot better than at short. It was still bad but he has the potential to get better at defense with his great athleticism. His bat is good and could possibly even be great. Hitting in fenway will definitely help and i could see him running out stats similar to that of the phillies bryson stott. Im thinking .280 plus batting average, 15-20 bombs maybe even more, plus he has 6 years of team control. I could see him blossoming in boston. He didn’t have a position in atlanta and it would have been a waste of his talents having him ride the pine. Boston got a great deal, and got to save some money. Alanta got their middle of the rotation starter they were searching for. Win win. I love it.
Dodgers will be watching the World Series on TV again
I agree. For the next ten seasons plus some deferred ones also.
Sale is still a good pitcher. Will probably bounce back like Eovaldi did after his surgeries.
He’s washed up.
“After topping the luxury tax barrier for the first time in 2023, the Braves’ estimated $280MM tax number now soars over the third penalty tier of $277MM, ”
According to Cot’s and Roster Resource, the Braves are under the $277M threshold. They are still in the second tier.
Does that include arbitration increases?
On Cot’s they include projected arbitrations. It’s an estimate, but they are generally pretty close. I don’t know about RR.
From what I’m reading at cotts the braves dont have any arbitration players. Everyone is signed or pre-arb. Looks like they have 80m coming off the books after 2024 so they’ll be in good shape.
If you look at Max Fried, his pay is in italics. That indicates it’s a projection, not a hard number. They do have a potential of a ton of money coming off the books next year. Even if they pick up Sale’s and Ozuna’s options, they’ll still be about $40M below the first CBT tier.
Can someone explain to me why people are acting like this is some blockbuster trade? I even got an ESPN notification about it.
Slow day. Any trade is a blockbuster trade.
Moving Chris Sale.
He’s a borderline HOF if he gets back on track with the ATL coaches.
He had 2 freak.accidents that importantly are neither lingering/lasting nor impact his pitching mechanics – a bike fall, and, a comebacker that hit his hand.
The arm/shoulder were OK and he was putting up decent #s last year until the freak accident with the ball hitting his hand.
Every chance he is a comeback player of the year in ’24.
Time is running out on the “full throttle”
Go sign Montgomery then trade to get Luzardo from Miami. Rotation would then be decent…
Montgomery, Giolito, Luzardo, Pivetta & Bello or trade with Brew crew to get Burnes instead of Luzardo & rotation would then look like: Burnes, Montgomery, Gio, Pivetta & Bello.
Then jump thru hoops & get a lefty for the pen & roll with it.
I can live with Grissom at 2nd…he has got to be better than anything we tried at 2b fielding wise last season + he can hit!!
What do you all think??
If they get two more starting pitchers as you suggest above, that would mean trading away some prospects and would also mean they’re going for it this year.
Would the roster be good enough to do that? I know they’ll acquire one more starting pitcher probably via trade but they might surprise us and get another free agent big boy like Montgomery.
That would be some serious chest thumping. Who else in baseball has acquired three new starting pitchers? I wouldn’t be surprised if they did that but huge money plus trade all their prospects for another starter? Not sure both will happen.
Plus I think to contend that they need a guy like T Hernandez in the Outfield as a power threat in the lineup. That’s more money spent in free agency. Well who knows, sure would be nice to really go for it like that.
That is an interesting trade. A infielder that is known for his bat in the minors, but plays bad defense at SS and 2B but is blocked at 2B, SS, and LF with the Braves for a starting pitcher with 31 starts in the last 4 seasons.
Outinleftfield…Braves were wanting a SP & Grissom was pretty much blocked at all positions so he was the out guy. Sale for them will be veteran leadership & probably be their 3-4 guy. We (BoSox) were in need of 2B so it worked for both. Grissom brings us a solid bat & even if he is average defensively at 2B we have better than last season at the position, plus some $$$ to spend elsewhere…better be pitching!
I wonder if the Braves should go to a 6-man rotation. They’ve got old guys (Morton), young guys (Elder, Smith-Shawver, Waldrep) and guys coming off of injuries (Fried, Sale, (Anderson, eventually)). Having an extra day off could help all of them.
Definitely not the worst idea in the world, you could also add Ynoa to the equation. But, knowing the Braves organization just a little over the past 50 years, they’ll probably start the season with a set 5. There’s usually plenty of off days early in the season, although I haven’t actually checked for this upcoming year. Perhaps/hopefully they’ll pre-schedule some individual skips starting before the All-Star break and go forward from there with real data. It’s undeniable they need 4 solid/healthy starters to begin and finish the postseason. Go Braves!
I don’t think the Braves will do it because it’s unconventional and because it would mean one fewer relievers, but on paper it makes sense.
We needed starters with Sale in the rotation. We now need two more. Anything short of getting two more quality starters makes this move a head scratcher. I honestly only expected Sale this coming year to be the guy that gave us an all star caliber year out of our starters. He should be healed, and control was his issue coming off injuries, not stuff. I expect a major trade and signing to justify this. If Grissom pans out as a productive defensive and offensive starting second baseman over the next 5 years I can see this move with the additional two pitchers.
huge pick up for the braves, now i wouldnt mind if AA went and got bauer for cheap. that would be a hell of a post season rotation to face, especially with that bullpen
Dropping Sale for the Sox is a bit like addition by subtraction. Odds are he would have been someone who gave us 50 innings while we needed 200. Maybe he needs a new environment and can bounce back. I wish him and the Braves all the luck in the world. But it’s better for the Sox to free up a little money and see what they can do with it.
Sell the team clowns
Who are they? The team clowns, I mean.
Now the Braves can trade for an infielder or 2 from Baltimore while giving up a pitcher that Sale will replace.
Stay tuned.
Hide the scissors!
Do you honestly think the Brave clubhouse will inspire another “episode”?
Better keep drake laroche out of there just in case
Mark Polishuk, you left Bryce Elder out of the probable pitchers that Atlanta has as rotation options.
I think Boston kinda wins this one. Sale seems toxic. Grissom appeared to be tight with the clubhouse in ‘22. Missed the few games he played in ‘23 so can’t comment there. Even with paying the previous years’ deferrals, I think Boston got the better player long term.
Hope Sale spares Atlanta’s dugout equipment when he inevitably melts down.
Sale is not toxic. If you were to read interviews with Red Sox players and management they said he was the ultimate team player.
Sale replaced that TV he wrecked at the minor league facility he was rehabbing at. Showing fire in his belly doesn’t make someone toxic. I can give you many past examples of former Yankees destroying stuff in the dugout after a strikeout or DP.
They probably needed to upgrade from a CRT to a flatscreen anyway.
I see a lot of comments about the Braves owing Sale $10.5M, but that money is deferred until 2039. In today’s dollars, it’s more like $4.7M, including the $1M assignment bonus.
~$9.5M per Cots.
Is that the CBT or the pay?
CBT.
“Sale’s adjusted salary for Competitive Balance Tax purposes is $27.5M, the amount still due under the contract. With $10M of 2024 salary deferred and paid 2035-39, the present value of the remaining $27.5M is reduced to $25,551,440 for CBT payroll, using a 4.43% rate (Oct. 2023), the annual IRS mid-term rate required by CBA Article XXIII(E)(6)”
I was referring to actual payroll, not CBT. The Braves are a little below the 277 CBT threshold because of the deferral.
Overpay…
It’s a gamble. If he stays healthy, he’s definitely worth it.
Could argue that statement for both teams which means its a good deal
Good job Red Sox and Braves.
Much more interesting than people arguing over FA landing spots with regurgitated usually useless angles; he hates the East Coast, his wife prefers the big city, he was roommates with the third basemen in the minors, etc.
So sick of prospects, can we make the red Sox better and make it worth investing time in this team?
Grissom is going to be the new 2b…not a prospect anymore hes got nothing left to prove in the minors
Pool is right but maybe you would enjoy this aspect of baseball more if you put a little more time into getting to know the farm and what the future might hold. Not saying you have to appreciate prospects to appreciate baseball but every major talent you could possibly want on your team was a prospect. The Dodgers, Braves, Astros, Rays, was and now Orioles all built winners starting from the farm. The Cubs world series drought was ended by a team that was built from the farm.
Grissom was brought in to replace Story at SS by July. And that’s exactly what is going to happen. Mark my words…..
Cue Braves fans claiming “Prime” Sale will be another steal for AA and Braves, then watch another NLDS exit in 2024.
The question here isn’t why did the Sox do this but what are the Braves thinking? Sale is done
Not good for Refsnyder’s Hall of Fame chances 🙁
Wonder if the Rangers offered anything. He would’ve made sense while the other starters get healthy.
Happy Mew Year everyone‼️
Happy New Year to you too!
Nice One AA! we are sure still missing you in Toronto!
Like what has been stated over and over again, New White Sox GM Chris Getz is getting his welcome to the big leagues moment. This isn’t MLB The Show, he overplayed his hand with Cease and now he’s screwed. Each day Cease isn’t traded his value decreases.
I wonder if the Braves offered Grissom a extension he turned it down and the pivoted to Arcia who accepted. There was whispers of this amongst fans and I think that might be the case. Then he was destined to be traded. I personally really like his bat. If Sale doesn’t have a nice season in 2024 this trade will be a loss for the Braves.