It wouldn’t be an offseason or trade deadline without the annual tradition of rumors regarding the Marlins’ collection of young starting pitchers. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic writes this morning that Miami has received interest in right-hander Edward Cabrera and lefty Trevor Rogers this winter, though there’s no indication a deal involving either has been seriously discussed.
Miami’s wealth of starting pitching has been the focus of other clubs for several years now, although the extent of that depth is probably overstated now. The Fish traded Pablo Lopez as part of their Luis Arraez acquisition and will be without 2022 NL Cy Young winner Sandy Alcantara in 2024 due to Tommy John surgery. Pitching prospect Jake Eder was traded at the deadline to acquire Jake Burger from the White Sox. Fellow prospects Max Meyer (2022 TJS), Dax Fulton (2023 elbow surgery) and Sixto Sanchez (shoulder surgeries in 2021, 2022) have all seen injuries slow their trajectories as well — particularly in the case of Sanchez.
Currently, the Marlins project to trot out a rotation including Jesus Luzardo, Braxton Garrett, Cabrera, Rogers and ballyhooed young right-hander Eury Perez. There’s no way the Marlins would move Perez, who entered 2023 as arguably the top pitching prospect in the sport and debuted as a 20-year-old with 19 starts of 3.15 ERA ball. Similarly, Rosenthal suggests that Luzardo and Garrett are likely considered off limits. Beyond that top quintet, the Marlins’ top in-house options are 27-year-old Bryan Hoeing and lefty Ryan Weathers, whom they acquired in a buy-low deal from the Padres over the summer.
The extent to which Cabrera or Rogers is available will depend on the strength of offers made by other clubs, as there’s no urgency for Miami to move either pitcher. Rogers, the 2021 NL Rookie of the Year runner-up, has three years of team control remaining. Cabrera has five. Rogers has had a pair of disappointing years since a brilliant rookie campaign, pitching to a 5.26 ERA in his past 125 frames (just 18 of which came in an injury-ruined 2023 season). Cabrera has been better but inconsistent while showing worrying command; he’s logged a 3.73 ERA and fanned 26.6% of his opponents in his past 171 1/3 innings but has also issued walks at a 13.7% clip in that time.
Between the greater amount of club control and the better recent track record (both in terms of health and performance), Cabrera has the greater trade value of the pair. He’ll likely be eligible for Super Two status next winter and thus be arbitration-eligible four times rather than three, but Rogers is already into his arb years and projected to earn a modest $1.5MM this coming season, via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz.
With their past trades and all of the injuries throughout the prospect ranks, the Marlins are no longer as deep as some may believe them to be. It’s still feasible that they could trade someone like Cabrera or Rogers in an effort to acquire help at another area of need like catcher, shortstop or center field (depending on the new front office’s plans for Jazz Chisholm Jr.’s defensive home). It’s a thin free-agent market for bats, after all, and the Marlins likely don’t have extensive financial flexibility anyhow.
That said, if new president of baseball operations Peter Bendix does deal from the rotation to address another need, it’d likely just create a hole on the starting staff that would need to be filled via free agency or a subsequent trade. The Marlins tried this last year when dealing Lopez and signing Johnny Cueto, but the results weren’t at all what the team had hoped, as Cueto posted a 6.02 ERA in 52 1/3 innings.
I think the Alcantara injury may have taken them out of the running for a pitching trade like this.
Perez
Luzardo
Garrett
Cabrera
Rogers
Meyer
That’s a solid top 6 I don’t think they should weaken it with a trade. Meyer has long been discussed as a reliever and they need righty relief help. And of course guys get hurt. Heck Perez, Rogers and Meyer will all be on some kind of an innings limit.
I like Weathers big string lefty. I believe he will be a better version of Luzardo.
Take it from Padres fans – he is going to be amazing. Now trade us Luzardo for a lottery ticket and we will all be happy – LOL.
I dont see that. Luzardo has some of the best stuff in baseball and has had two good years in a row while building workload. Weathers so far from that right now.
Ma my LOL applied to the entire post. Not just thst last sentence. You are very correct. He is young though and shows some promise at times to be fair.
Oh, totally missed that! Sorry, been a long week
Weathers has 31 starts over 3 seasons with a 6.41 ERA as a starter and a negative 2.7 WAR. That kid is a bust.
Even if Meyer remains a starter, he’ll have a limited workload in ‘24. So, he’s not even a full-time option.
They still could trade one of these guys, though, and bring in a vet like they did with Cueto.
Trade another one of these young pitchers with high potential, then sign Johnny Cueto again.
Double down.
I think Rogers could be a good bullpen piece.
Edward Cabrera would awesome for the Reds to obtain IMP
I agree. What do you propose in return? Barrero?
India for Cabrera would work. Fish move india to OF.
Reds need to aim higher though. Martinez kinda fills role Cabrera would fill
Not sure the Marlins would trade 5 years of Cabrera for 3 of India.
it would not
No it wouldn’t. India is a 2B, which is the one thing Miami doesn’t need.
How about 5 years of Mikel Garcia and 2 years of Salvador Perez?
I would think India plus a young lower level (but) legit prospect.. Don’t think India alone would get it done…
It would take a package of Edwin Arroyo and more to land Cabrera, for sure. The Marlins have no need for India, as they have Arraez at 2B and Burger at 3B. Arroyo could be their shortstop of the future, and he is already close to being ready for the show. The Marlins would also probably want a young MLB-ready pitcher back with some decent upside, like Lyon Richardson, to replace the SP depth that will be lost by trading Cabrera. The Marlins aren’t going to trade him unless they get an offer that is really worth it for them. That being said, these two teams do match up well for this kind of a trade.
Agree was thinking Arroyo too…. The reason I mentioned India is for a young vet with upside that could also DH & for some reason he just feels like a Jeter type guy to me not sure why:)
India would definitely make sense for them if they had an opening at 2B or 3B, but I think if they’re giving up five years of Cabrera they will want a longer term piece at one of the premium positions that they have holes at (SS, C).
Makes sense….
It’ll be interesting if they do move him to see what they actually get in return because Cabrera’s value is tough to figure.. He’s obviously got insane stuff & they certainly don’t need to move him but he’s also out of options, which is an issue since there’s been multiple reports that the Marlins continue to be frustrated with his ongoing control issues…
Cabrera rumored to Cleveland for Andres Gimenez
That’s not bad. What does Cleveland do at SS then?
Cleveland has a slew of MI prospects they need to get time for.
Gimenez started every single game at 2B last year so I would imagine any trade doesn’t impact SS at all.
I’d bet anything that Gimenez will never be a 6 fWAR player again but he is valuable. I think Cleveland will move him in 2 years though before they pay out $23MM per season. Won’t get much for him at that time though. Be more of a salary dump.
Agree, that may be his career year
Lol oh man what world is everyone responding here living in?? Dres is 25, just won the platinum glove, put up a 6+fWar in 2022, and is signed through 2030. Cabrera was demoted last year with his team in a playoff race and has a career 1.34 WHIP
Yeah no shot. There’s too much surplus value on Gimenez’s next 2 seasons @$5MM and $10MM a piece. After that he goes up to $23MM. Really not much surplus value at that price point. He’d be most attractive to a team up against the luxury tax at that time because his AAV is much lower.
Idk though… there’s what theyve done… and what theyre projected to do by talent evaluators. There may be some who think Cabrera has a higher ceiling than gimenez.
Let the Cabrera-Torres rumors start. Of course the Marlins would have to give up more though. Where’s Jazz at?
Marlins would need to give up more? What planet are you on?
I’m so sorry. I’m on a planet with a high payroll, not a $30 million dollar budget.
Captain, are your Crunchberries ok today? Cabrera and Jazz for Gleyber? And here I thought you were just trying to fleece me for Soto yesterday…
Nah obviously the Yankees would have to give up more if Jazz was involved. Truth be told just sniffing around, my preference is to keep Gleyber. Fleece you? Never. Bellinger is sounding better to me, especially cheaper then Soto.
Torres is a rental, with a high arb rate. He’s worth almost nothing.
So now the Evil Empire is concerned about the cheaper alternative? Budget franchise! Haha
I guess you could say the same thing in regards to Juan Soto also.
You guys keep calling us and we’re still trying to ghost ya! Haha enjoy the Winter Meetings & Holidays brah!
Why not both?
You must be on a planet with low oxygen content or high alcohol content.
I doubt the Marlins have any interest in paying $12-15 mill for one year of Gleyber Torres, whose best defensive position is already filled in Miami by a much better hitter.
Agreed @Captain-judge!
Marlins need to also add Eury plus money to pay off his future contracts on top of Jazz & Cabrera, while taking back Stanton’s contracts to go along with Torres
If the pot needed to be sweetened, Marlins can also send the Yankees all of their competitive balance picks for the next 5 years as well as their international pool money, and 10% royalties on all concession profits until 2033.
Only fair.
@Mjm117
Isn’t he the same guy that was coming up with trade chips for Arraez to the Yankees because Arraez’s value is so low? Maybe we need to throw Arraez in to get a 28-year old Rookie Ball RH Middle Reliever to truly balance things out. And we can also send money to pay for Judge’s contract and give the Yankees more money to sign Ohtani.
The pirates are losing Oviedo for the season. Please Gmbc at least do your due diligence here. Thanks
Hank Davis and Peguero for Cabrera and Rogers
Not so sure I’d give up on the 1st pick so soon. Would reflect poorly on the FO
Cabrera and Rogers both lol. Henry Davis has no position—especially with Endy up now. I would trade him immediately if another team gives up controllable pitching.
One interesting trade that could be discussed would be Cabrera to the Jays for Catcher Alejandro Kirk. Both have multiple years of control and Kirk brings a value need to the Marlins. Cabrera gives the Jays a nr4 starter with better potential if they can teach him better control. Kirk is a GG finalist who has great plate coverage and bat to ball skills and pitchers love pitching to him. Thoughts?
Marlins definitely need a catcher but so do the Jays. Jansen is only locked up for 2024 and has never been the starting catcher.
I think the Jays will extend Jansen. It would not be overly expensive, and he is a home-grown catcher who knows the pitchers. He is above average power and above average defensively. Kirk gets the nod slightly over him defensively, but Jansen was a GG finalist a few years ago as well. Jansen and Heineman could start next year, and Varsho could catch a few games as needed. The only knock-on Jansen is all the injuries and if he could stay healthy for a few years, his stats would surprise many.
Salvador Perez? I can make that happen.
Bit pricey for the Marlins …
It will take much more than Cabrera, who has struggled with control and is frequently in the minors, to get multiple years of pudgy All Star Alejandro Kirk.
I disagree. I think it may actually take more on the Blue Jays end than just Kirk to pry Cabrera away from the Marlins. Kirk only has three years of control left, and posted an OPS below .700 last season. I believe he’ll bounce back a bit with the bat next year, but I think the Marlins are only going to deal Cabrera if they get a really enticing offer. Kirk alone doesn’t seem like it will cut it.
Cabrera to Texas for Ezekiel Duran.
Trevor Rogers to Baltimore for Joey Ortiz, straight up- Marlins get an MLB ready top 100 SS prospect with already-excellent defense to plug into their starting lineup immediately and the O’s get 3 years of a potentially front end lefty starter.
I like it. Rogers injury(s) are troublesome, but he has real ability. I’m hoping my RS kick the tires.
Ortiz looks like he could be a nobody. And the Orioles need something better than Rogers too.
Ortiz is a great defensive SS who has hit really well in the minor leagues.
He’s about as low variance as a prospect can be. He’ll never be an All Star but projects to be an everyday SS. Would immediately become the Marlins best option.
If you’re basing anything on the handful of ABS he had in Baltimore—that’s completely worthless. He’ll never get an opportunity here and certainly didn’t get any regular looks last year.
Good proposal though, Floch. I like it. I think Rogers is optionable too if he doesn’t work out. I feel like ortiz has to be dealt this off-season. He deserves a shot to play somewhere.
If you trade Westburg he would get an opportunity right?
Not necessarily. Jackson Holliday is the SS of the future.
Taking Ortiz off of SS would limit his overall value because he’s a premium defender there. You don’t necessarily want to move that to 2B.
Ortiz is a consensus top 100 prospect whose excellent defense at a premium position gives him a very high floor, and he’s put up very solid offensive numbers in the high minors over the last 2 years (.850ish OPS in AA + AAA).
The guy would be a top 3 prospect in most systems.
Yep. Very high floor. If he hits his ceiling you could potentially you get a slightly above average hitting SS who runs wells and plays good defense.
Ortiz for Rogers. Miami says “no”.
Ones looking for a stud SS, the other a TOR SP.
Eury for Holliday. Both small market teams with payroll constraints; each address a need and can have control on the cheap on both these young’ins for quite some time.
Those deals are extremely rare, Jeff. Miami needs a starting caliber SS. Not necessarily an all star. I wouldn’t trade Holiday for Perez either. Perez isn’t going to be ready to throw serious innings next year
I just think you run into the same problem as this year with the young pitching with Perez & you’ve given up the #1 prospect to do so.
Is he going to be able to pitch deep into ballgames when the playoffs are around? I think you would have to go to a 6 man rotation so he wouldn’t be maxed out on innings.
I think if the O’s acquire a SP who isn’t a TOR guy right now—it’s alright. We can reassess at the deadline and go buy one if it comes to that. If we fix a guy like Rogers and G-Rod/Bradish look like a one two punch—maybe it’s not as big of a need as it appears. Means could very well be a postseason starter for us also.
Not a lot of certainty but I do feel like this team is good enough that we could wait and see.
Great stuff Strow. Thought Perez was more ready. My bad.
And, yep, point taken that Os are not necessarily needing a TOR SP. Agree that GRod/Bradish combo is strong
Pirates seem the obvious fit here with 2 high end young catching prospects
That is what the Marlins need most imo. A ready to play catcher.
So Jason Delay for both pitchers? Sorry.. just imitating some of the most famous posters who over value their own. I guess the real discussion (my snarkiness aside) is do the Pirates and other teams really view Hank Davis as a catcher. That is a comment beyond just these pitchers.
Dodgers have that, too.
Last week Rosenthal said that Luzardo and Garrett were on the market. This week they are likely off limits?
His co-worker said that the Padres were in talks with the Marlins for Luzardo or Garrett and Craig Mish said that the Marlins were discussing moving one of their LH starters.
Starting to get the impression that Rosenthal is no longer one of the best sources of information.
Somewhat strange to hear some fungible guys are “OTM” before the Winter Meetings…
Miami & Mets: Rogers and Josh Bell for McNeil, A. Ramirez, a SS prospect and Quintana with $10 mil. It’ll give Miami a veteran to help with the young pitchers and give the Mets a younger SP.
Bell can DH/ backup 1b, than without McNeil, Acuna can play 2b, Mauricio 3b, Nimmo LF, Jett Williams CF. Rogers can be our 5th sp
trevor bauer would be a nice signing for them
It might be the time for the Marlins and Dbacks to resume their offseason business. If the Dbacks were to offer all-star SS and post season standout Geraldo Perdomo and one of their extra CFs, I could see real potential in Arizona a getting back a quality starting pitcher. The Dbacks have their next SS almost ready in Jordan Lawler, who needs a few more at-bats in Reno before he’s ready for the full time job.
Yeah this makes the most sense of anything in this thread.
Keep the pitching staff intact. Avoid any impulsive trades. Need a catcher? Make an offer to Mitch Garver, propose a trade for Joey Bart (who won’t cost us much), or promote an in-house option like Will Banfield. Shortstop? We’ve got Berti, Brujan, Amaya, and especially Edwards, whom I really like. So where is the great urgency? In my estimation, if another team wants a Marlins starter, they would have to seriously overpay.
Rogers sucks though. Has been replacement level since he had that great rookie year.
I love the guy but he’s eternally blocked in the infield here: Eguy Rosario. Eguy and Pedro Avila for Cabrera might have appeal for both clubs?
Love Rogers
I get a feeling Boston is going to sign Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Then trade Alex Verdugo and a prospect to the Mariners for Woo or Alex Verdugo to Guardians straight up for Shane Bieber.
Verdugo is a one year rental. You don’t sniff someone like Woo (5 years of control) for him, unless that prospect is a hella one (the prospect would be the centerpiece not Verdugo). Bieber conceivably, but the Guardians can do better.
Dugie is an upgrade for the Guards but not really the one they need. They need to add some power in that lineup somehow. It’s atypical for them to only add a guy with a year of control also.
I’d expect they’ll move Bieber for prospects or a controllable piece(s)
#DontTradeEddy #EddyArmy
Cabrera to the Brewers for Joey Weimer.
Why does Johnny Cueto keep getting paid? It’s shocking
Giants? that way you could have T. Rogers, T. Rogers, T. Rogers on the roster – I think they corner the market on rogerses at that point
I dont understand why fir an organization lacking catchers prospects they didn’t protect Banfield. Also Knitzer is available and his production last year was way better that what the Fish had.
So, what is going on? Also no nees to trade pitching unless someone comes up and give the Marlins a package to what the Reds received for Castillo. Next season without Alcantara looks not that great, but people forget about Weathers, Sanchez , Monteverde. So I rather sign someone like Knitzer and give Brujan a chance al short.
Neither can hit at all. The team got a little lucky last year with its sequencing on offense, and Arraez having a career year, and STILL was one of the worst offenses in baseball. They’re losing Soler as well. If I’m the Marlins front office I really need a SS and a C, maybe an OF, who can rake.
Sign Mitch Garver and give Xavier Edwards (who certainly can hit) a shot at the SS position. Or, move Jazz back to SS and give Dane Myers a chance to win the CF job. Guy’s got a lot of upside, with nothing left to prove in AAA. Problems addressed, pitching staff remains intact, no unnecessary expenditure of $$ or prospects.
Only problem is that Mitch Garver isn’t really an everyday catcher anymore. He is a backup at best but will get paid as a 1st option catcher. His bat would be really big for the Fish though. He would really be replacing Soler. He needs to resign with Texas that is a really good fit for his services.
Interesting this news comes out right after the news of Twins looking for a starter. I smell another trade between these teams
Interesting rumor going around here that the Marlins are discussing a 1 for 5 trade with the Padres of Luzardo for Grisham, Morejon, Lesko, Valenzuela, and Rosario.
Pretty sure Padres fans are going to say that is too much and Marlins fans are going to say its not enough. I am just going to lay it out there and let you argue about it.